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Arc 28: Cockroaches - Dissecting Worm
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This story isn’t intended for young or sensitive readers. Readers who are on the lookout for trigger warnings are advised to give Worm a pass.
Complete list of potential triggers: here
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Dissecting Worm: The sister podcast to Brockton Bay Book Club where our hosts Jacob and Allan discuss adapting Worm for television.
Episode Description:
Cauldron: Secret global parahuman organization. Doctor Mother presides. Responsible for the creation and distribution of certain powers. Responsible for the creation of "Case 53s." Attempting to plan for, and survive, various apocalyptic scenarios. Masters of manipulation, deception, and foresight. Likely already aware of attempts to dissect.
Find all our links, including our new merch @brocktonbaybc
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Timestamps:
(00:00) - Introduction
(01:30) - Dissecting Begins
Recommended
Transcript
Merch Announcement
00:00:00
Speaker
Exciting announcement, we now have Brockton Bay Book Club merch. We've got our Brockton Bay Book Club t-shirt as well as the Brockton Bay's sweatshirt. They look sweet. Hannah designed them and they're amazing. So if you're interested in that, a link will be in the description and shout out to Hannah for all the sweet designs. Thanks so much for your guys' support and go check it out.
Worm Web Serial Discussion Overview
00:00:25
Speaker
Worm is a web serial by J.C. McRae, also known as Wildbo. You can read Worm in its original format by visiting parahumans dot.wordpress dot.com or donate to Wildbo's Patreon at patreon dot.com. slash wildbot This story isn't intended for young or sensitive readers. Readers who are on the lookout for trigger warnings are advised to give Worm a pass. For a complete list, check the description for all of Worm's trigger warnings.
Introduction to Arc 28
00:01:33
Speaker
Take that you worms. Welcome back to arc 28 of worm. And we are in it. We are in it. We're in the thick of it. The end game. Yeah, the end game. You could say we've made it. Alan and Michael here joining me as always. Gentlemen, it's a pleasure. Absolutely.
Arc 28 Structure Critique
00:01:57
Speaker
you And we've hit the part of our story together where ah
00:02:05
Speaker
we're we're We're putting final pieces together, but a lot of this stuff just kind of ends up being like, where you know where does this fight scene go? Where does that fight scene go? It's a lot of just sort of ah you know structure and pacing at this point, because I mean, you you know chime in, Alan, but I think Generally, a lot of this stuff is just going to translate one to one. I mean, it just great I have, uh, I have two notes for this entire arc. Uh, this is a lot of scenes that need restructuring. And is this whole thing just end bringer bullshit? Yeah. The whole thing is end bringer bullshit. and That is true. Uh, I'm not going to lie. I, you know,
00:02:56
Speaker
I'm gonna come out strong on this. I think a lot of this just needs to be cut. i Yeah, cut i mean cut is as maybe a strong word for me, but I do agree. There's a ton of just... ex it's not It's not really exposition, but yeah, there's a lot of dead air here that I think could be restructured.
Canary as POV in Battle Planning
00:03:17
Speaker
A good bit between the fight scenes. I mean, and most of this arc is talking. There's not a lot of fighting in this arc.
00:03:25
Speaker
Yeah, which, you know, I'm okay getting a break. No problems with that. Um, ah let me go over things that I think are good. Um, I think having Canary as potentially a point of view person, um, to observe all the stuff that's going on would be really good. Um, if we kind of just followed Canary observing all this standing next to Taylor, I think that would be a really good time. Um,
00:03:55
Speaker
I think setting up all of the different, you know, the battle of five armies, setting up all the different groups, um, having their little interactions as we talk about like what's pairing for, you know, how are we going to fight scion? I feel like a lot of this can get. Separate like, I feel like this is going to get blended up and thrown into other arcs that will be whole episodes in, in TV format. I feel like the end bringer thing as a whole either needs to get more explanation potentially, or a lot of it needs to get cut out because I think in show format, it's going to come across really clunky.
00:04:54
Speaker
Yeah, i'm ah I'm definitely in favor of better explanation and maybe more.
Endbringers and Eidolon Connection
00:04:59
Speaker
ah Like like um I was doing a lot of reading of comments on like old, old posts on Reddit and and space battles and things like that that were talking about these arcs as kind of they came out. And there was some really fun, like people were kind of doing what we're doing now, just sort of making sense of it. It was it was confusing to read at the time. we Fans were were trying to put it together.
00:05:23
Speaker
um And some fans, I think erroneously, but I really like the idea. We're talking about how the, did like questioning, did the end bringers go dormant when Eidolon died?
00:05:36
Speaker
And because I think they sort of try to touch on that a little in the arc, if I remember right, I don't think they really do. ah But I really like that idea of driving home the point that there's the connection, like to further strengthen that bond between Eidolon and the endbringers, little things like that, like just having them go dormant when he dies or, you know,
00:06:01
Speaker
wander aimlessly maybe without destruction, just sort of purposeless, you know, things like that that could really strengthen or could better sell the end bringers in terms of what they are. Yeah. Yeah. Um, it almost makes me wonder, uh, if we drew a more obvious connection between, uh, the fact that Taylor is the counterpart to Eidolon's shard.
Taylor's Control Over Endbringers
00:06:33
Speaker
who Um, that is right. Right. umm making Yeah. If there was some way for Taylor to be the one to essentially pick up the end bringers that because of her conversation with Glastig Gwenye and tattletale,
00:06:56
Speaker
they figure out that like, oh, the end bringers need direction now and honest to God, you're the closest thing to Eidolon. So like, maybe you could take over as, you know, as his, as their administrator, who but controlling them. Yeah, I think that's a fun idea to play with.
00:07:22
Speaker
the The only trade-off is i I do like that we get more Tattletale beats with her and the Simurg specifically in this arc. And i would I don't know if I'd want to take away from that dynamic necessarily, but I do like the idea, especially again with a show of trying to reinforce and strengthen this concept of what the shards are.
00:07:47
Speaker
So that it's ah it's a little more natural when you have some other moments and and certain interactions make a little bit more sense. You know, have more conversations about the passengers, et cetera, things like that. I do like that a lot.
TV Adaptation Debate
00:08:01
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, the the quick and easy answer would be that ah Taylor takes over Eidolon's position and then hands off control and says like, Hey, Simmer, you follow her now. Mm-hmm.
00:08:13
Speaker
Yeah. know And that's how you can split the end burners up to, Hey, Leviathan, you go over here. I just, this just feels like a lot of unnecessary stuff going on. And once again, I keep putting it off, but I don't think this is going to, we're going to have a good structure to build around this until we get into later. Like I think next arc will be the one that helps us like retroactively go back and form all these.
00:08:43
Speaker
Yeah, it's funny. I think, um, so we, we kind of talked about this a few arcs ago, how I think a lot of the season is going to sort of fall into place as we kind of reread the arcs again. Um, there is part of me that almost wants to go back and retcon our, our season four a little bit and end season four with the Jack slash stuff and leave all of season five just for the fight against Sion.
00:09:13
Speaker
I say part of me because I don't think there's really enough to fill the in there. We'd have to be filling in a lot more stuff, which I think we could. But I've thought a i' thought a lot about that. I was like, man, so much of once the tone shifts so violently when Sion flips. whole night show It's It's so different. And i'm my concern is that it's either if you did it like halfway in the middle of the season,
00:09:44
Speaker
you've you risk really giving people whiplash between the first but first half and the back half. So do you could either shorten it and leave it for like the last two episodes, but that doesn't feel like enough time to give the weight of what you need. So then the other alternative was just to to lengthen it and just make the whole season, the final season, just a whole different kind of animal.
Worm vs. Mass Effect Parallels
00:10:09
Speaker
Yeah, I still don't like that because I don't think the scion fight, I mean, it has the potential to be a full season, but I really don't think it should be. Yeah, I mean, it it's it's just the that the conversation is is um you know how much time it's it's it's, I think it's the single biggest issue with a lot of these
00:10:35
Speaker
what I'll call prestige television, although I think that's a little broad, but a lot of shows struggle when you're heading towards a big conclusion. A lot of shows struggle to adequately pace the conclusion. Game of Thrones being the obvious example, but I'll throw Stranger Things in there. I mean, obviously it hasn't concluded yet. We'll see how they do it, but I have a feeling that the final season of Stranger Things will feel pretty rushed.
00:11:05
Speaker
just from how slow the show has been up until this point. I just found out that Stranger Things is still airing. Yeah, go one more season. A lot a lot of shows, I feel like a lot of shows struggle with that. And again, if we want to talk about mutual things that we love that I think pays very well, not a show, but I think Mass Effect is a beautifully paced story.
00:11:30
Speaker
And that is a story that that really does ah a true three act structure in three games, but the final act, the final game is the attack. Like is yeah the the reapers have attacked. It's not the final bit of the final game. It's the entire final game and it it's paced very, very well. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, think you could the whole of mass effect one is essentially this last season it's hunting down Jack slash AKA Saren.
00:12:01
Speaker
Yeah, right. Right. Who unfortunately has, you know, activated the, the Reapers. Then it's also spoiler spoiler warning for Mass Effect. Um, and then two is essentially finally divining what the shards are slash what the Reapers are kind of. And then three is, uh, you know, Sion going wild and I want to put them down slash, uh, the Reaper showing up in ruin and ruining everything.
00:12:30
Speaker
I mean, it's kind of funny.
Adapting Worm Like Mass Effect
00:12:31
Speaker
but We're kind of on a mass effect tangent here. we've We've joked around, we've recorded little bits for our Patreons and and things like that about you know what if we tried to make Worm into a movie or something like that, or a trilogy at the shortest, and like what would you cut, what would you keep, challenges, et cetera. Honestly, if you were to structure a Worm trilogy,
00:12:54
Speaker
and structure and pace it like the mass effect plot lines and just hit the same beats and just swap out entities for Reapers, et cetera. That would work. I think you'd have a pretty good work. I would obviously be very, very, very different from the web serial, but I think that's how you do it. I think that's how you do it. Do we want to have a quick aside for that real quick? Quick aside if I'm giving you inspiration. Okay. If you join me at the sidebar. So hear me out.
00:13:23
Speaker
And we're going to be blending this heavily with the mass effect. Sure. so You are a superhero on a task force to take down the serial killer group slaughterhouse nine. Make your way through them to get to Jack slash only to find out that the reason they really wanted to go after him so hard is because he's been prophesied to end the world.
00:13:50
Speaker
So I like it. You finally catch up with him. He does something. You don't understand what it is, but, you know, he dies or gets caught or whatever, you know, that's, that's the end of movie one slash game one of mass effect. Yeah. Worm, you know, worm to the worming. Yeah. To worm to furious. Yeah. Is Um, you know, yeah honestly, if you wanted to keep it really close, you'd be, Oh, I'm working for cauldron. I was gonna say that could just be like the cauldron arc. Yeah. Essentially. You somehow get, you know, you got hurt during the fight, yada, yada. You get rescued by cauldron. They give you power boosters too. And you end up working for cauldron because they say that they have the key to stopping the end of the world. And while you disagree with a lot of their tactics, there's a lot of things that they are able to do. Lots of portalling in and out, yada, yada.
00:14:46
Speaker
And ultimately you find out that what you know Jack did was start kick off the slaughterhouse. and and And honestly, you could even just have, you fight the slaughterhouse nine, you find out that it wasn't the slaughterhouse nine that you were going after, it was specifically Jack and he gets away at the end of one. But you stop them from doing kill them or something like that. ah Two is chasing Jack down ah through a bunch of different worlds.
00:15:15
Speaker
And you ultimately capture him, but, you know, he set something off. You're not quite sure. Movie three is Sion is what he activated and start to destroy everything. And so you just trying to stop that using your resources with cauldron, both fighting for and against cauldron. And also, you know, working with the protectorate and and yeah. Yeah.
00:15:42
Speaker
I think that fits pretty well into the mass effect beats. Yeah. I already want to play this game slash this telltale game. I was going to say, I can see it now. Tell a telltale game would be really good for this. Okay. The question of course, who is our Caden standing? Who gets offed.
00:16:07
Speaker
oh It's just like, a just lead. Oh, I was going to say, um, you do defiant. ah Okay. But then he comes back. Right. Right. As an arms master and a much later thing. And you have to deal with the fallout of you left him to die. Yeah. Yeah. well You still have all the same personality problems, which is what causes you to be like, Ooh, that guy has to go. Right.
00:16:39
Speaker
But then realize he survived and maybe have to struggle with him becoming a better person and not hating his character.
00:16:49
Speaker
Oh, it's too much. You ask too much of me. I know. Okay. Well, in case we have any listeners who don't know mass effect. Yeah. Anyway, anyway, anded out of the sidebar, back to the main podcast. yeah This, this has helped me ah get around some things in my head about Yeah. it And, uh, and to see him play Mass Effect, you can play Mass Effect. It's a fantastic sci-fi game. Beautiful story. Yeah. It took me a while. I just now realized in my head, as I was thinking about like, Oh man, Drew, what is Drew capturing or whatever his name is. Yep. Sheeran did a great job oh yeah writing up that universe. I know there were other people. And then I was like, man, I think I've just pictured in my head what the name looks like. And, uh, I was like, didn't he do the rule of two?
00:17:38
Speaker
Star Wars series, like with Darth Bane and everything. i I don't know. Are you asking? I don't, i hold on, give me a second. I'm gonna go to my bookshelf. But in bookshelf noises, Michael? Yeah. Crossing books. Yeah, absolutely did. Did he really? Wow. Yeah. Drew, our patient. What a wonderful world he has written. Yep, Star Wars and Mass Effect. Oh, wow. A lot of Sith books. Sick.
00:18:08
Speaker
Anyway, back to worm. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Back to
Foreshadowing and Endbringers' Role
00:18:11
Speaker
worm. It's difficult because it's such a it's such a tone shift, right? So how to how to make that transition elegantly is gonna be interesting. I think the the idea lead up wise here, because I'll be honest, I'm not too concerned with the tone shift. We've had the tone shift before. I think if as long as you play like the end of the world's coming, the end of the world's coming, here it is. What is it? You know, us trying to figure out You know, is it the end bringers? Is it, uh, you know, these S class, other S class threats, you know, is it cauldron, you know, which is why like, they keep all their people away. Um, that's Sion. And I think this arc, if we were turning this arc into an episode, the focus is really ramping up. I mean, all of this, all of this is ramping up to Taylor becoming Capri.
00:19:07
Speaker
and the like doing you know using all of the weapons and resources at their disposal. So in order to achieve those goals, I think, like I said, if we had Taylor take over as administrator for the end bringers, I think that kind of touches on the fact that like, oh, she knows that her powers can extend beyond beyond bugs.
00:19:37
Speaker
Like, that's but but that's where her her shard got set to essentially. There were bugs around, so that's what it got hardwired to. Or I should say softwired really, because at a you know deep, deep level, she can control things like the end bringers. Like she set up hardware wise with that shard to do things like that. So like it puts the seed in the head of like, what else could she control?
00:20:06
Speaker
you know And I think yeah keep keeping that ramp going of like, Oh, look, she's using control on her bugs. Oh, look, she's using control on the end bringers. Oh, look, she's coordinating all of the heroes until you, you know, you get to the Capri moment and you're like, Oh, she's controlling it everything.
00:20:30
Speaker
Yeah, so I don't hate that. i I think that's kind of fun to to play around with. i Man, it's it's tricky. On the one hand, I don't want to foreshadow Keppri at all. i think the I think the sudden shift of what happens is pretty fun. I have to think about that for a minute, because i i'm for as as someone who has consistently constantly been saying, I love foreshadowing and I want everything foreshadowed, which is true. It's, it's interesting to have to try to do it with, with that. The other two little hang ups is one, the end bringers don't really have too much of an impact on the rest of the story. Like right they don't have, you know,
00:21:24
Speaker
Leviathan gets offed, I'm pretty sure, right? If my memory serves, I think Sion takes care of him. I know Simmer gets free, but doesn't really contribute to anything. So it's like, it if for something that feels so momentous, it doesn't have a it doesn't have the payoff, I think, that people would want. If you get this moment where Taylor can control, even mildly, control the end bringers, people are going to think that's the win condition.
00:21:52
Speaker
because of how grand that is. And it's fine that it's not. It's almost it's almost great that it's not, right? it's It's kind of cool. But I do think you'd have some disappointment there. yeah um The second thing is is that foreshadowing Keppri isn't really the goal because Keppri doesn't really win
00:22:17
Speaker
Like Sion could just wipe them all out.
Taylor's Ultimate Abilities
00:22:21
Speaker
She just bullies him. So like foreshadowing the Keppri moment isn't the goal. It's foreshadowing the emotional strain that Sion's under, which you can do a lot of different ways. but um Yeah, I don't know. I'm kind of just, I'm thinking out thinking out loud here. well Well, I think, I think ability wise, you don't want to just come up with an, oh, I can do this out of nowhere. I think setting up the fact that her shard, and they've talked about it before, but that her shard has this ability and she can do it with more than just bugs. do Does she need to do this with the end bringers for us to explain this? No, no, she does. We'll figure it out.
00:23:05
Speaker
When it happens, like, oh yeah, obviously she can do this, but yeah, I, I don't, I don't know how you, do you just get rid of the end bringers? Cause I'd be okay with that. If you just, oh no, the end bringers when idol on got killed all put like, so they don't really serve a purpose. Like you said.
00:23:26
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, I'm fine. Again, I'm fine with them kind of going dormant. And if maybe then you could, you could use them at the end, especially Leviathan, um, you know, have Capri grab one out of a portal, drop it on them, you know, distract them for a minute. And then these toast, you know, you could still, you could still kill them off kind of the same way. Yeah. and Yeah. I do like the idea of like, she's throwing, you know, she's throwing bodies and then all of a sudden, you know, the big portal and, you know, simmer comes through.
00:23:56
Speaker
Right. and And that would be a great point where like you have not just Simmerg, but she, you know, Avengers assembles, uh, all the end bringers to come out. A couple of them do that. And then, then you have your moment with the Simmerg dropping down with the sword to stab Sion. Um, the way that she upgraded Leviathan, but we could yeah just get that in favor of her sort of damoclesing Sion. it's ah si on yeah to unfortunately do nothing. Yeah. Yeah. i yeah Again, those, yeah, exactly. That's great. There's a lot of fun ways. I think you could probably. Yeah. I like, I like that. I like bringing in, you know, literally the kitchens, everything and the kitchen sink at the end rather than yeah having it here. I need a, I need a on your left meme now. I kept behind cap. It's the simmered just,
00:24:57
Speaker
coming out the portal. But again, so again, though, the the issue is if you if you mess with that, you do lose Tattletales conversation ah with the Simurg, which I do like, I like, I like that Tattletale has stuff to do here. It's, you know, why we haven't Tattletale, I just don't think it's worth keeping. And you I mean, yeah, if you want to, if you want to remove it, that's
Expanding Character Perspectives
00:25:20
Speaker
fine. I think if you do that, though, you want to give her something else because is the The issue with these last few arcs is that they are so tailor-focused, as you would expect from a first-person web serial, not a ah a knock, it's just a reality, is that you lose so much of these other characters. We've already talked about the fact that like you have to doru's death a bit better ah you have to do death a bit better.
00:25:53
Speaker
um you had we we were were already like We don't have to say it. we We would give more screen time to Weld and the Irregulars. um you know we'd We'd give more screen time to the Birdcage and Panacea. like All of this is just assumed. We're going to have to do that. We just haven't really written it in yet. um So if you want if you want to take this scene away from Tattletale, I think that's fine. But I do think you have to give her something in return um so that There are characters beyond Taylor in this final season.
00:26:29
Speaker
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00:26:40
Speaker
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00:27:13
Speaker
I think another theme we could go with also, if especially as we're like expanding to try and get more perspectives from like tattletale and defiant. I, in fact, I think that would maybe, you know, maybe we go back to weld too. You know, we had a truce when we were trying to fight Sion and now the, you know, the different bad guy groups have kind of re scattered again.
00:27:40
Speaker
essentially pointing out that like, Hey, saint, Hey teacher, Hey, young bond. And I guess the elite, uh, like you're, you're fucking us. We're at the end and you know, you get the frustration from tattletale and Taylor and defiant, all of which have the same concern, which is man, if these dumb motherfuckers would just do what we told them, you know,
00:28:06
Speaker
If they would only just listen, if they would just do what we commanded them to do, we could get shit done. You know, and building that frustration till you get to the end where, you know, the viewer, you know, the watcher just goes, Oh, well, of course, you know, how is everybody not on board with what Taylor's doing? Because like, obviously this is what we've all wanted this whole time. Right. Yeah. You know, and I, and I think getting that frustration building.
00:28:36
Speaker
of like saints not cooperating, teachers being a piece of shit. The Yangban are, and the elite are, you know, pillaging worlds. Like nobody's being helpful. Why aren't they just listening, you know? Right. Yeah, no, I mean, I like the idea of um ah putting some more emphasis on these other skirmishes. Like this is all the background stuff that we're not getting a lot of from Taylor's perspective.
00:29:04
Speaker
as we read it, that would be really fun to flesh out. You know, the Yangban, the elite, all these other skirmishes that are going on, these these ah this vying for power or groups that think they have the answer to stop the end of the world or defeat Sion. Like, it's so chaotic and we're we really only get a sliver of it when we're reading the story. So, that yeah, there's ah there's a lot that you can work with here. That's a lot of fun.
00:29:33
Speaker
and then Yeah. I mean, I was just going to kind of keep going through the arc here towards the end, you know, yeah, again, you got other, that I'm just kind of reading through our notes. You've got, you know, bits with the the kids, of course, and, and, uh, Charlotte and Glenn and all of them, which feels honestly, it feels, it felt a little out of place when reading it, but it's a nice little scene, just kind of another reminder that these other characters are here.
Scene Placement with Charlotte and Kids
00:30:00
Speaker
Um,
00:30:02
Speaker
little things like that that, that you can always kind of throw in during the season. Yeah. Yeah. I think.
00:30:11
Speaker
Yeah, I don't, I don't, you know, they're enjoyable to read, but I think they feel very, as we discussed in the other podcast and as we continue to compare to mass effect, a jolting change of pace for what's going on um stra to be like, clearly here we go before the last push.
00:30:31
Speaker
You know, let's say all our goodbyes. Oh yeah, I made the Mass Effect comparison and in the Procter Bay Book Club, didn't I? We need a Mass Effect tracker. Which works all the way back for like when Taylor is sent setting the setting the tempo of what's going on. Like when she goes to turn herself in, like she has all the time in the world to turn herself in and like become a you know hero. Like she's setting that that pace so she can take her time to say goodbyes.
00:31:00
Speaker
We are under attack by Sion. She needs to get her shit together. Right. Yeah. Yeah. It's a bit, uh, it's a bit, it's a bit jolting. We definitely need to kind of restructure that. If you, if you did want to keep the scene, you'd have to place it somewhere else for sure. Honestly, I think a scene like that would work well immediately after Sion attacks. And they're kind of all trying to you know figure out what's going on on earth, which, which everything they want. I gimel, I think.
00:31:30
Speaker
Yeah. earth kimel yeah um And like Taylor realizes her dad didn't make it and things like that. Like that's when you want to place this scene shift the tone a bit. So it's a bit more chaotic maybe. And she's finding comfort in, you know, what, what, what few people may qualify as family to her now, you know, those kinds of things. I think that's where you would put a scene like that. But yeah, yeah, right here is a little ah disjointed. Yeah.
00:31:58
Speaker
Like maybe if Taylor runs into Charlotte and the kids amongst the other refugees, then I mean, I'm not too upset. But like Glenn and Kaye, I'm sorry, like I love Kaye, but those two, we don't need to see them again. Yeah, they do. They have their time in the time in the sun for sure.
Adapting Slower Pacing of Arc 28
00:32:20
Speaker
That's most of this arc. Again, we're kind of just struggling to fill time here, but so much of these final arcs will just be longer through nature of ah action set pieces and things like that. Like even the ones, this this is not a very action-heavy arc, but there is fighting going on that Wadbo just doesn't flesh out a lot. There's the fighting against the elite and the Yangban that are going on.
00:32:51
Speaker
Leviathan, et cetera. So like there's a lot of room to stretch time throughout even arcs like this that feel like they would be shorter or a lot would be cut or restructured. I'm not, I'm not too worried about the filling time, not to mention, like I said, we've got four or five other groups of people that we're going to be touching on this entire season. So there's, there's lots of time. Yeah. Yeah.
00:33:22
Speaker
ah The next, the next arc for sure is going to be like really good too. That one I have, I have no doubt will be a good, engaging episode. But man, this one just, and unless we're going scene by scene, like no, yes, no, yes, this needs to go before that. Like that's all this arc is. Yeah, it's a bit of a, as, as Gandalf would say, the deep breath before the plunge.
00:33:52
Speaker
Yeah. This is what happens when you make podcasts where you're going arcs of stories at a time is you're going to hit the arcs that you could probably wrap up. You know, it should have been an email. Should have been an email. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. And I think, I think this is, this is going to be one of the longer us putting stuff together, I think.
00:34:14
Speaker
We may, I was thinking about this actually, we we may want like another episode, sorry, Michael, another episode of you and I just like structuring the season ah before we present it. yeah I figured that would probably be a thing. Cause I feel like this one in particular is going to need a lot of work in terms of just making sure that we hit all the beats we want to hit. Yep. Makes sense. Restructure, organize, present and figure that restructure again.
Crafting a Satisfying Epilogue
00:34:50
Speaker
Exactly. I mean, the real question will be, do we, do we include the epilogue as part of the season or do we just, you know, cut those out?
00:35:03
Speaker
Oh, I don't think we cut it. I think, well, again, I say this as someone who hasn't read the epilogue in like eight years. So it'll take me a minute. I got to reread it. I don't think you cut it. I think, I think the epilogue is a final episode in my life. Cause I don't get me wrong. I love an epilogue episode. Like I think more shows should have an epilogue episode. Um, you know, I, I enjoyed those. Yeah. Um, personally.
00:35:32
Speaker
Oh, I mean, to to jump ahead, just to just to touch on a little epilogue idea. um i I want to spoil the epilogue for people. um You know, the end of Monsters, Inc., right where ah Sully glimpsed Boo right through the broken door that Mike put together. It's the kiddie scene. Yeah, right. It's great. And it's a great it's a beautifully angled and shot old Pixar master of cinematography.
00:35:58
Speaker
You're not looking at Boo, you're looking at Sully, you're seeing his reaction as he opens the door. And you just know by the context that he's getting the closure he wanted. ah I want that shot. so Everything, exactly the same, except replace Mike with like, you know, labyrinth or someone like that. So, hey, I found her, opens up a portal, tattletale looks out and you know, gives the old smile. Just like little things like that, that I think an epilogue would go a really long way in, in giving people a little bit of a happy ending that they deserve.
Closing Scene with Tattletale
00:36:35
Speaker
I think we've mentioned it before, but, uh, I love that just doing the, the Batman scene minus showing Bruce Wayne, but like saddle tail gets, you know,
00:36:47
Speaker
You do the whole like same thing, like found, found what you're looking for. Like here's the address. Yeah. And tattletale goes, sits down at the cafe and is like looking around and then sees, clearly sees someone and like the big smile. And that's where you cut it. Yeah. Oh yeah. Absolutely. Got it. With a show as dark as this, you have to end on a smile or people will throw tomatoes.
Humorous Alternative Endings
00:37:18
Speaker
Yeah, maybe. And so we've decided to change up where we're going with this. Sion at the end, which is fucking wipe some. Yeah, it's a it's a so it's a it' full party wipe. You've seen the you've seen the fan edit of Toy Story 3. No, is it just where they cut it? They cut it.
00:37:39
Speaker
of them going in, going into the furnace and then the credits roll. Yep. The two, the two like teenagers or sons cut it for the, uh, the mom. Yeah, that's what it is. Yeah. show yeah That's a great one. Yeah. Uh, that's what we do. We just, you know, sign blows up great Britain and, uh, fade to black roll credits yeah heroes loss.
00:38:07
Speaker
Uh, Perfect.
Podcast Wrap-up and Listener Engagement
00:38:10
Speaker
Yeah, I think, um you know, shorter episode, I think that's fine. I think well we're not going to drag this out ah for too long here. Let the fans go back to all their other warm podcasts about adapting it for film and television. Well, they got to start reading the next arc. Yeah, exactly.
00:38:31
Speaker
By the way, if there are any other podcasts that talk about adapting worm, let me know. Cause I want to listen to them. I want more of this. I don't think anyone else is as insane as we are. I know. It makes me sad. Makes me sad every day. try That's okay. That's why we're here. ah Got to start the conversation somewhere.
00:38:54
Speaker
And boy have we. Arc 28. Not a short arc, but a short adaptation. Short recap. Yeah. And I think we'll probably, again, sound like a broken record every time, but.
00:39:06
Speaker
We'll put a pin on a few of these points, definitely going to be revisiting a few of these beats as we put together the season, kind of structure it. Next arc's going to be a lot of fun. Arc 29, Cauldron Arc will be a blast. So stick around for that. Rockton Bay Book Club, of course, first. So enjoy our thoughts on the arc as a whole, and then join us the following week for more dissecting. And as always, if you enjoy these conversations and you want to discuss them more intimately. We have a Discord exclusively for our patrons. So consider stopping on by joining our Patreon and hanging out with us. We do bonus videos. We've got a few other videos, clips, ah conversations, memes, all sorts of fun stuff going on over there. Built a fun little community of warm fans and we'd love to have you. And until next time, as always,
00:40:03
Speaker
Take that. You've worms.