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Episode 745 - Romance Feelings f/ Erica Henderson
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Our friend 'till the end Erica Henderson joins us on the show this week to talk about Harley and Ivy: Life and Crimes, including how she now gets to determine what's canon for The Joker! Plus, some haunted doll talk (of course) and much more!
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Transcript
Recording and Introduction
00:00:00
Speaker
This show is recorded using Zencaster. If you are a podcaster or you want to be a podcaster and you want to be able to record remotely, you can do so using Zencaster.
00:00:12
Speaker
They also have hosting options and you can let them know that we sent you. Follow the link in our show notes or in the episode description and sign up for an account on Zencaster now to start recording your own podcast.
00:00:28
Speaker
Titus, I'm bored. What plaything can you offer me today?
00:00:38
Speaker
got more rocket Ajax to bring back his body. Terminate exit!
00:00:53
Speaker
Hello, everybody, and welcome to Rocket Ajax. This is the Internet's most explosive comic book and pop culture podcast, and we are your hosts... My name is Chris Sims. With me, as always, is Matt Wilson.
00:01:04
Speaker
And Matt, I believe you said you had a question to ask me. That's correct, Chris. Now, we're recording this episode the day before Halloween.
Halloween Monster Roommates
00:01:14
Speaker
it it is going up after Halloween.
00:01:17
Speaker
The nature of time. We still have some of that Halloween spirit. So my question for you is, you have to be roommates... With a monster.
00:01:29
Speaker
A Halloween monster. Okay. Who would be a roommate you would be least annoyed by? you you you could most find livable with.
00:01:42
Speaker
That's interesting. It's gotta be a Halloween monster, which means it's gotta be someone pretty scary and possibly dead. Yeah, probably. yeah so
00:01:55
Speaker
I mean, obviously my first thought is Dracula. But depending on which Dracula canon we're going with, I mean, like if we're going with novel Dracula, that dude's racist. Straight up.
00:02:08
Speaker
yeah You can choose which version of Dracula. I did like i got no problem with that. Oh, okay. Alright. ah Let's see. if if it was If it was a a Wolfman? If it was Marv Wolfman?
00:02:23
Speaker
but My immediate thought is Wolfman. but I already take Allegra every day because I'm allergic to dogs. Yeah, that I mean, that's a problem for you.
00:02:34
Speaker
But um my answer is Wolfman because like he's just going to have a handful of rowdy nights. And I've had roommates like that. you and You and Hank Williams Jr.
00:02:46
Speaker
yeah
00:02:49
Speaker
Yeah. You don't want the Invisible Man. He's a pervert. No, you do not want that guy. I do you not want the invisible man. You do not want to feel like, if you're in the shower, that like he might be in the corner of the room or some shit. Yeah, man.
00:03:07
Speaker
I don't know. I can maybe fuck with him hotel.
00:03:12
Speaker
The mummy. Because I'd be like, yeah, man, fuck the British Museum. You know what? We would agree on some stuff. Yeah. For sure. Like like the the weight of my heart against a feather.
00:03:26
Speaker
Here's the thing, though. is so Is he ever going to do a dish? Probably not. He's probably used to a certain level of treatment that that's yes would not be conducive to being a roommate.
00:03:42
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But then I'm left with, like, which Dracula am I going with? Yeah, pick a Dracula. can i get Okay, can it be Soma Cruz? Sure. Yeah, I'll take it.
00:03:53
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cool the Cool. The cool teen Dracula who like yeah good goes to school. Who doesn't know he's Dracula for doesn't know he's Dracula. And then when he when he finds out he's Dracula, he's like, oh, well, i guess I'll just be good guy then.
00:04:07
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Good Dracula. I'll be good Dracula. I'll be a good Dracula.
Patreon Support and Tiers
00:04:12
Speaker
We've got a great show for everybody this week. Erica Henderson, our longtime friend, is here to talk to us about her new book, Harley and Ivy, Life and Crimes.
00:04:26
Speaker
And it's a great comic, and it's very fun. Our interview with Erica is very fun. It is mostly about the comic, but ah about other things as well.
00:04:39
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But Chris, before we talk to Erica, we do have some business to take care of. The first piece of business being thanking our newest supporters over on Patreon. That's right, Matt. These are the people who not only do they like the show, as ah as everybody should.
00:04:55
Speaker
Because it's a good show. Correct. we we We work hard on it, and by that I mean you work hard on it.
00:05:03
Speaker
I show up, but... these are people who like the show so much that they want to make sure the show keeps going. They want to make sure that the show keeps, that that you and I keep doing this show, movie fighters, snack situation, comics, catch up, every story ever, all the side projects and, uh, goof them ups that we do here at the Colitis media family of podcasts.
00:05:28
Speaker
So what do they do? They give us as little as a dollar a month to help this show keep going and help us pay those gimmicks. They keep sending them mail call bills. That's right, Chris. Here are our newest Patreon supporters.
00:05:42
Speaker
Daniel Baines. Thank you, Daniel. Josh Bell. Thank you, Josh. And Airzuka. Thank you, Airzuka. If you would like to be like those wonderful people and help us out here on War Rocket Ajax, you can do it by going to patreon.com slash warrocketajax, as Chris said, and kicking in as ah as little as a dollar a month to help us to keep doing all of the shows that Chris mentioned. And as a patron, you get every single one of those shows, every show that we do, completely ad-free.
00:06:15
Speaker
Even at the $1 level, you get content. adf freee Clytus Media Shows on a special Patreon feed that's just for you. At the $5 level, you get bonus content. That might be bonus audio ah that we specially record for Patreon. That might be outtakes that I cut out of the show and put on the Patreon for people to listen to.
00:06:40
Speaker
Or if the show runs long, maybe I'll just cut a little piece and put it on Patreon. There's writing that Chris and I have done over on Patreon. All of that is there at the $5 level, and if you join at the $5 level, you get all the bonus audio we've ever made, which is quite a bit by this point.
00:06:59
Speaker
At the $10 level, you get line-stepping privileges for our segments, which currently include Every Story Ever and One to Ten of Swords. At the $15 level, you get to join the Gimmick Street Preservation Society, which we still need to read out, this the newest member of the Gimmick Street Preservation Society.
00:07:20
Speaker
That's right, man. You get to pick an address on Gimmick Street if you're a member of the Gimmick Street Preservation Society. It is from Rocket Bits, who has determined what is at 745 Gimmick Street.
00:07:38
Speaker
Okay. Take me down, Matt. Take me down to 745 Gimmick Street. Yes. Rocket Bits says that what is there is Quark's Bar and Grill Gaming House and Hollow Suite Arcade.
00:07:52
Speaker
Great. rock Love it. Rocket Bits says, I'd really like this establishment to succeed and be profitable, so we go to need you to do your best rendition of the only promotion Quark made for the bar, which is featured featured in Season 4, Episode 24, The Quickening.
00:08:07
Speaker
Memory Alpha lists the words as, Come to Quarks. Quarks is fun. Come right down. Don't walk. Run.
00:08:18
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Matt, was that Armin Shimmerman? On the recording just now? He might as well have been here, right? ah Finally, Rocketbed says, Please let Chris know that they very much considered submitting the Bajoran wormhole, which would have coincided with Gimmick Street's acceptance into the Federation. Mm-hmm.
00:08:37
Speaker
That, I feel like, would probably obliterate several blocks of Gaming Street. it Probably, yes. ah So what is there instead is Quark's Bar and Grill Gaming House at Hollow Suite Arcade.
00:08:52
Speaker
Yeah.
00:08:54
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where where Where they are proudly unionized. That's right. ah Thank you, Rocket Bits, for naming that piece of gimmick street. You can do that if you're at the $15 level on Patreon.
00:09:07
Speaker
And at the $20 level, you get a t-shirt every year. We do an annual t-shirt that is for our $20 level patreon our patrons. um that they Only they can get for an entire calendar year.
00:09:20
Speaker
And then... Maybe later that design gets put online somewhere. um But for that calendar year, it's Patreon exclusive, baby.
00:09:32
Speaker
If you are unable to help us monetarily, which we do understand, there's lots of reasons why that may be the case, you can
War Rocket Ajax on IMDb
00:09:39
Speaker
help us out in other ways. You can leave us a five-star review on the podcasting app that you use.
00:09:43
Speaker
Or I've recently been informed that War Rocket Ajax is on IMDb.
00:09:50
Speaker
Really? Yes. Why? I don't know. But it is. Okay. i and You and I are both listed as self-host.
00:10:03
Speaker
Somehow I am listed as being in more episodes than you. Okay, that's weird. That's pretty weird. Because that's the opposite.
00:10:14
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. ah But yes, there is a page on IMDb for War Rocket Ajax podcast series 2009 through. um There are 920 episodes listed.
00:10:26
Speaker
But yes, ah so if you want to leave us a review on IMDb. Wait, how are there 920? Are they counting every story ever? it They must be counting all the every story ever and everything, too. Yeah.
00:10:38
Speaker
Okay.
00:10:40
Speaker
Well, it starts in episode seven. There are individual episodes listed as well. um I don't know who did this or who took the time to do this or what what is going on with this, but it is there.
00:10:56
Speaker
um But it's probably more helpful for you to leave the show a rating on the podcasting app that you use. But you can also do it on IMDb now.
00:11:07
Speaker
ah You can also... ah Just spread the word about the show. Tell your friends and family. ah Let people know ah to listen to this show, War Rocket Ajax.
00:11:19
Speaker
Matt, did you know that you have two listed credits on the Internet Movie Database? ah Yes, ah War Rocket Ajax and Special Thanks in MODOK. Yes.
00:11:30
Speaker
Yeah, which we both got. Which we both got, yeah. yeah And i am i I have one more than you do, because I'm also listed for my ah appearance on the Star Trek The Next Generation podcast, Enterprising Individuals.
00:11:44
Speaker
It was a very fun time. There should be ah listing for your appearance on The Daily Show. You would think. I mean, look, let's be real.
00:11:56
Speaker
I shouldn't be on there.
00:12:03
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i I am apparently the only Matt D. Wilson. You are Chris Sims number 19. Jeepers. I wasn't expecting 19. That feels like a lot.
00:12:18
Speaker
That's a lot, yeah. how was How was there... I mean, no offense, Matt, but like how was there only one Matt Wilson? Matt D. Wilson. as far as er As far as I'm concerned, there's only one Matt D. Wilson.
00:12:31
Speaker
Somehow I'm the only Matt D. Wilson for for now. um All right. I don't know. We got off on a tangent about IMDb. Go leave us a good review, please. Or tell people about the show. With that, Chris, you know, Halloween is over.
00:12:45
Speaker
Which means it's Christmas. That's right, Matt. So it's time for some comforts and joys.
Listener Stories and Sword Talk
00:12:56
Speaker
Chris, what's bringing you comfort? Matt. um we have We have a follow-up, and we have new business. Okay, great. I also have that those things.
00:13:08
Speaker
Okay, good. I want everyone to know, yes. Do you know what genuinely gave me a lot of comfort in these trying times and made me feel really good?
00:13:19
Speaker
This past week. Is it the email from Jen? It is the email from Jen. Okay, that was my that was my follow-up as well, so that's good. yeah Yes. we I feel like we have truly done something good.
00:13:35
Speaker
ah We got an email from ah Jen of the Get Jen a Sword. I was going to say campaign, but it was more of an ultimatum. it wave Yes, it was absolutely an ultimatum.
00:13:46
Speaker
Yeah. Who is thrilled... With ah her new sword cane, which... ah drop Drop a link.
00:13:57
Speaker
I gotta see this thing. oh And one of the things that she says is, ah thank you so much for being the change we all want to see in the world. We all want to see in the world.
00:14:08
Speaker
A world where people who want swords have swords. yes And that is perhaps the highest honor I could hope to achieve. Yes.
00:14:20
Speaker
And to that end, Matt, I bought myself two more Well, Jen also stated in her email that swords are like tattoos. Once once you have one you want more.
00:14:38
Speaker
And so Jen is anticipating more swords. So that tracks. It's really true. um I remember going to the farmer's market back in North Carolina and there was a guy who had a, like he raised goats. So he had like, you know, goat cheese and and such.
00:14:55
Speaker
And he had like a sticker on his water bottle that said, gos ah goats are like potato chips. You can't have just one. And like, I thought that was very funny because i feel like even having one goat is a little unusual.
00:15:12
Speaker
Yeah. But now I'm like, I get it, man. find Find your goat.
00:15:17
Speaker
My go to sword. I was feeling down, Matt. I was feeling little depressed, feeling overwhelmed. Because, you know, everything. And I went and looked at ah ah the Etsy shop of the the person who made the Sword of Omens that our friends Annie and Lucas got me for my birthday.
00:15:40
Speaker
And wouldn't you know it, for a bargain price, He had Twinkle and Icing Death, the Swords of Drisdorden.
00:15:51
Speaker
Okay. That's Twinkle and Icing Death. ah Yes, yes. The Swords of Drisdorden.
00:16:00
Speaker
and So you had to buy them. So I had to buy them. these are display swords. These are not functional. But ah as my wife was saying, ah when I said that I really needed an Anduril...
00:16:15
Speaker
She said, you have one. I said, well, that's a toy. And she said, Christopher, they're all toys. And that's true.
00:16:24
Speaker
but they are metal, so that's nice. Now, Matt, while I was looking ah to to purchase these swords for myself, I did ask you what Marlene thought about your current level of sword ownership.
00:16:39
Speaker
And you said neutral. Neutral is what I would say, yeah. And I said How would she feel about an increase or decrease? And you did not answer that question, instead you went to Chicago.
00:16:53
Speaker
that That is true. That's what I did. i i don't know. i An increase, a small increase, would probably be fine. A large increase?
00:17:07
Speaker
Hard to say. Hard to say. do Are you familiar with the word exponential? Exponential. I am familiar with that, yes. I am familiar with that but that word. Just feel her out.
00:17:20
Speaker
See what she thinks. Bring it All right. all right i'll i'll I'll figure out a ah a ah sly way to to bring it up. Good, Matt.
00:17:31
Speaker
Matt, what is giving you comfort in these trying times? Well, Chris, you mentioned ah that I traveled to Chicago. I will talk about that in just a moment. ah But before that, I do have some business to take care of.
00:17:44
Speaker
um i Earlier today, i told you that there was a double ranking on the Every Story Ever list of the of a Dragon Ball story.
00:17:57
Speaker
Yes. ah The Fortune Teller Baba saga. Yes. um We actually had two doubled up Dragon Ball stories.
00:18:08
Speaker
We must have done that whole Dragon Ball list twice. Or or maybe the people just crave Dragon Ball. Maybe. um But we have ranked the Goku Black Saga twice.
00:18:22
Speaker
It is at numbers 120 and 496. That's a much bigger spread than the other one. Yeah, but as as always, we keep the higher one. So I'm going to get rid of the one that's at 496.
00:18:36
Speaker
We literally ranked them one year apart. Yeah, that's why I think it was – maybe we did that that list twice. Because it was in every spooky ever? Because it was in every spooky ever, yeah.
00:18:47
Speaker
Which – that's my bad. I've – you know, it's hard to remember stuff. It's just hard to remember stuff. The list keeps getting bigger, and we keep getting older.
00:18:59
Speaker
Yes. These things will continue to happen. As as the list continues to grow, and it it becomes harder and harder to remember what's on it – ah there may be more, uh, repeats. So apologies for that.
00:19:13
Speaker
Uh, I just wanted to to say that real quick so we could clean up the every story ever list quickly. And then, ah my, my real comfort is, um, that I did go to Chicago and I did perform, ah improv comedy at IO theater, formerly known as improv Olympic.
Improv Memories and Future Plans
00:19:34
Speaker
And, uh, Man, it was a hoot. It was a hoot and a blast. Marlene did two shows on Saturday. um She was in the Misfit Improv Musical um Saturday afternoon, which was an absolute delight.
00:19:53
Speaker
It was about um a character who wanted to be a Broadway star, star but she had to learn how to swim.
00:20:01
Speaker
And Marlene was her um like hard-ass coach. ah which was great. And then in the later show at 930, she and her group ah Family Dinner performed, and they did a ah really great job.
00:20:19
Speaker
It was a super fun show. And then on Sunday, i performed at IO with a troupe called Assembly Required, which was put together for um, this trip.
00:20:33
Speaker
Um, but the four of us, it's, it's three other people that I really like. And, uh, We had a really fun 20-minute set um that went really well. and I could not have been more proud of it.
00:20:49
Speaker
um Also, it was great to just be back in Chicago and and see some of the old stuff. um I went to Chinatown and bought bought a bunch of Kit Kats, which is what I used to do all the time ah back in the old days.
00:21:04
Speaker
and Went to my old neighborhoods and it's, it's one of those things where like things are mostly the same, but slightly different. Um, so you, you really like pick up on what the differences are.
00:21:18
Speaker
I fell right back into the habits of riding the L and the bus, um, to get around and, um, just had a, an excellent time, ah revisiting my old home city of Chicago and, uh,
00:21:36
Speaker
And doing some comedy. um And I hope we get to do it again. um it It was brought up on a couple of occasions that this Asheville takeover of IO um for a few shows um could happen again, maybe next year.
00:21:52
Speaker
And i I really hope that we get to do that. It was a takeover. Well, it invasion is the word that was used in the marketing. ah Yeah, I mean, I was going to say, it's like – Sounds like there was a new world organization, brother.
00:22:09
Speaker
For life. um But yeah, I met like some really great, cool people ah who have been doing improv at IO for a long time.
00:22:21
Speaker
and And yeah, it was just... it was just a A really good trip in many, many ways. So I hope it wasn't just a one-time thing. it was It's something we could do more and more of.
00:22:36
Speaker
Time for some joys, Chris. What's bringing you joy? Matt, I like to recommend things to the people here on this show. You really do. You really do. And you know what makes it very easy to recommend something?
00:22:48
Speaker
ah Please tell me. When it costs zero dollars. Woo-wee! Ooh-wee, I love a free. I love a free. And Matt, there's a new Vampire Survivors expansion, and buddy, it's free.
Game and Show Recommendations
00:23:04
Speaker
And it is a crossover with Ballotro. ok Okay, okay. Tell me more. Now, you might be asking yourself, Matt Wilson, how do the ah poker mechanics of Ballotro...
00:23:22
Speaker
translate to vampire survivors. They don't. ah it's It's just vampire survivors. But you can now, you get ah Jimbo, the Joker card, and some new stages, ah including one that is called the Antichamber, which is an extremely good pun.
00:23:47
Speaker
because Because of antis, right? Yes. I don't know how much of a pun it is when those those words are related, like, etymologically. Like, it is called the anti for the same reason an anti-chamber is called anti-chamber. Meaning before, yeah. yeah But I still think it's a good joke.
00:24:09
Speaker
I love how much Vampire Survivors there is.
00:24:14
Speaker
it It really keeps going. There's so much. And they keep making more of it, and it's great.
00:24:22
Speaker
ah So yeah, check that out. it is I don't even think you have to download anything. It's just like the latest update will give you ah the new characters, new weapons, new stages. So wait, is the Joker card the character or the weapon?
00:24:37
Speaker
ah the He's the character. there are There are several ah ah clowns and and harlequins from the world of Ballotro that you can now play as in Vampire Swimers.
00:24:51
Speaker
Okay, so what's their weapon? Cards? let you know when I unlock it. It looks like looks like Jimbo's throwing chips. Chips. That's interesting. Okay.
00:25:03
Speaker
And then the the big stage ah that that everything starts off on is oh like the select screen the ah like round select screen for Balatro that you're just running around in, except for all of the text is in ah cool spooky runes.
00:25:23
Speaker
Interesting. I wonder how they will incorporate the planet cards from Balatro, which is my favorite part of that game. like that Something really unlocked for me in Balatro, or however you're supposed to say it, when I figured out how the planet cards worked.
00:25:43
Speaker
And like I could stack a bunch of Mercury cards and just play pairs. Mwah. Mwah.
00:25:55
Speaker
Love it. You get you got one of those decks of cards that's like only like only hearts and spades. And then you use the planet cards to buff up the the flushes.
00:26:06
Speaker
yeah And buddy, that's your ticket. That's also good, yeah. You could really min-max that game.
00:26:14
Speaker
I think the starting weapon for the Balotro stuff is actually throwing your money, like your coins, at the enemies.
00:26:28
Speaker
That makes sense. Which is pretty great. yeah That's pretty fun. But yeah, it's free. It's Vampire Survivors. It came out right before Halloween, so you probably already have it.
00:26:39
Speaker
But it's more Vampire Survivors, and that means I like it. Matt, what do you have to recommend to people? My recommendation should come as no surprise to anyone. It is a show that you can watch right now on ah Home Box Office Maximum.
00:26:56
Speaker
That does not surprise me. ah It is... now i'm Now I'm making sure that I didn't already recommend it. Because because i'm i'm I'm a little worried that maybe I did. That's right. House Hunters International.
00:27:14
Speaker
ah But um if I already recommended it, i'm I don't mind recommending it again. um It is ah the new Tim Robinson show, The Chair Company.
00:27:28
Speaker
um Which is – think I told Benito this earlier. It continues Tim Robinson's shift from pure comedy into ah full horror. I think we talked a little bit about it last We talked a little bit about it last week, yeah, but yeah we did not do Checks and Wrecks because we were at a haunted amusement park.
00:27:51
Speaker
That's right. um I haven't recommended it, but we did talk about it a little bit. um But now I'm recommending it. I've seen three episodes, and like it is very funny. It is it is still like as funny as like you know a lot of I Think You Should Leave.
00:28:10
Speaker
But like Friendship already started a shift into like comedy with a somewhat more sinister tone.
00:28:23
Speaker
Not to say... like Look, there parts of I Think You Should Leave that have a pretty sinister tone. But Friendship absolutely like has like you know ah sort of unsettling tonal undercurrent to it.
00:28:37
Speaker
And The Chair Company is just like fully ah embracing that notion. It's... it it's
00:28:49
Speaker
Lynchian in its kind of presentation. Something I said on Blue Sky, which feels weird, but is, I think, correct. like I didn't expect the spiritual sequel to Twin Peaks The Return to be The Chair Company.
00:29:08
Speaker
But it kind of is. like There are moments on The Chair Company that remind me of the way things kind of like...
00:29:19
Speaker
felt like a fever dream in Twin Peaks The Return. like There's a lot of that in the chair company. For example, so okay Chris, have you seen any of it?
00:29:30
Speaker
I have not. Not yet. so that The title chair company is not the company Tim Robinson works for. okay He works for a company that builds and runs malls.
00:29:46
Speaker
And he's opening a mall in Canton, Ohio. And he's he's like in charge of the project of opening this mall in Canton, Ohio. And he does a TV interview.
00:29:57
Speaker
And in the TV interview, the the the reporter asks him a question about, like so Canton, that's the home of the Football Hall of Fame. Would you have some football stuff in the mall? And Tim Robinson just goes, no, we don't have any plans for that right now.
00:30:12
Speaker
And that makes people furious. And ah and like there's this one bit where they're like interviewing a former football player on TV, and he's just crying about how there aren't football things in this mall.
00:30:29
Speaker
And it's like very funny, but also like totally surreal. and And I love that. like It's like... like It's exactly the mix of comedy and horror that I i appreciate.
00:30:43
Speaker
Or just kind of like a mindfuck. It's really good. And I can't wait to watch more of it when there's more of it to watch. um it's It's like one of those rare shows that as soon as I see that it's available, I have to watch it.
00:31:02
Speaker
Alright, so those that's my joy. That's what's bringing me joy, Chris. The Chair Company. With that... It's time to talk about some of the comics of the week. What do you say?
Comic Book Discussions
00:31:12
Speaker
Let's do it.
00:31:15
Speaker
I guess we should start with the texter's choice for this week, which is Mortal 4 number 3. Chris, you texted Bonito and I just a panel of Sigurd Jarlson smashing yet another guy in the face with a hammer.
00:31:29
Speaker
Yeah, man. It's... i I don't know if I have said a a piece of comics criticism as true as, this book isn't about Thor being mortal, it's about what happens when you hit mortal people in the face with a hammer.
00:31:50
Speaker
it's it's it's the beat It's the definition of mortal as in, like, deadly. Yeah. Like, a mortal wound. Yeah. Because, buddy, he smashes that dude's face in, and weirdly...
00:32:07
Speaker
I thought that was going to be the most violent thing that I saw in comics this week. It was not. No, we'll talk about that in a second. um But yeah, like it's like this is the issue where Sigurd Jarlson gets a job at a construction site, and some dudes who look kind of like Hydra dudes, but they really work for Loki – um They show up and are going to try to kill Sigurd Jarlson, so he um smashes their faces with with his hammer, which is on a ah rope that he's like swinging around. and So like he's doing the Thor thing where he'll like throw the hammer and then pull it back to him, but it's because it's on a rope.
00:32:49
Speaker
Yeah. And it whips. like it It absolutely whips ass. it's It's incredible. like yeah It's just it' just a book of dudes getting fucked up, man.
00:33:01
Speaker
Yeah, this is ah by Al Ewing and Paschal Ferry. And it's it's bringing more of the kind of like mythology into it. Like, Loki's here.
00:33:12
Speaker
We get Odin by the end of the issue. um and And Thor is dreaming about, or Sigurd Jarlson is dreaming about Thor. Yeah. um But like, so far it's really just about Sigurd Jarlson smashing faces with him. Just really going to town on some motherfuckers.
00:33:32
Speaker
Speaking of going to town on some motherfuckers, Matt. Okay. Absolute Batman Annual No. 1, which you had not read before we got on this call tonight. I somehow missed that it was out.
00:33:45
Speaker
which was not Which was why it's not the texture choice. But when we got on the call, I was like, buddy, you've got to read the Absolute Batman Annual No. 1. So you you just read it real quick.
00:33:57
Speaker
And brother...
00:34:00
Speaker
Single issue of the year. This is by Dana Warren Johnson. It is about Batman. Absolute Batman.
00:34:11
Speaker
Having a run-in with some white supremacists. And wrecking those guys. Beating the dog shit out of them. Yes.
00:34:23
Speaker
And the the best thing about reading this issue as as we were on the call together is that I started laughing and you knew exactly what page. Yeah, it's the two-page spread where Batman absolutely shatters a man's arm. A dude is Sig Heilig and if Batman snaps his arm in half.
00:34:43
Speaker
Yep. Or I guess maybe maybe he's like throwing his heart. Maybe, ah but It's hard to know, but he's about to say white power, and then Batman... Yeah. um Like...
00:34:56
Speaker
takes that dude's arm and breaks it like ah like a chicken wing. It's beautiful. It's great. And then on the next page, he puts a different guy in one-winged angel. A cop in a one-winged angel. yeah and yeah The part of this where ah the racists are about to go beat up all the unhoused immigrants, and the cops show up and they go, you know we can't let you do this.
00:35:20
Speaker
And then they start laughing and they're like the are like, nah, we're actually here to do this too. Because ACAB yeah That's why Batman exists.
00:35:29
Speaker
Matt, he puts that guy in the One-Winged Angel. Yeah, man. And that guy, his neck is broken. His head is smushed. It's smushed and it's turned around the wrong way.
00:35:42
Speaker
yeah We've seen a lot of dudes take the One-Winged Angel in our time. We've sure've been in the room where it happened once. i yes Yes, together.
00:35:54
Speaker
i've I've been in the room where it's happened a few times. Yes. yeah ah But I've never seen anybody land like that. This month fucking racist cop doesn't know how to work. Absolutely not.
00:36:07
Speaker
And then on the next page, Batman does the V-trigger and so fucks that dude's face up, too. Yeah, that dude's head is like... There's no bones in that man's head.
00:36:19
Speaker
Yeah. That head is just wrapped around Batman's knee. it's like It's like you popped a water balloon. Yeah, man. This comic rules.
00:36:31
Speaker
ah Yeah. um there There are some people who don't like it, and fuck all of them. Who doesn't like this? Take a guess. Oh, okay. ah I do like that this comic has a Like, the the Batman is is contrasted with ah ah Thomas Wayne and a priest.
00:36:58
Speaker
Yes. Who were both non-violent protesters. We learn they knew each other. Yes. ah the the Thomas Wayne and this priest both worked together to non-violently try to make Gotham better. Yeah.
00:37:11
Speaker
Yeah. And... ah like Kind of like the the internal conflict for Batman is that he beats the shit out these guys, but then he feels bad because he is engaging in violence.
00:37:27
Speaker
Because this isn't what his dad would have done. This isn't what Thomas would have done. yeah But you know what? It's what Bruce would have done.
00:37:36
Speaker
Like, the the the part where... ah where the priest goes, this isn't the way, and there's just a full-page shot of Batman going, this is my way. yeah all right if it It's great.
00:37:51
Speaker
Do you think oh the song My Way was playing when Batman said that? In my head, now it is. Do you think it was just one? Yeah, you gotta specify which My Way. But I knew which one you meant. You know which one I meant.
00:38:05
Speaker
Yeah. I need this rock more than you could possibly imagine. But also, like Batman drives a giant dump truck into some dudes.
00:38:17
Speaker
He burns down their whole compound. like It would be hard to make a case that Batman does not kill some of these dudes. But if anybody deserved it, if anybody deserved it, it's these fucking Nazis.
00:38:31
Speaker
Yeah, man. yeah Fuck those guys. Fuck those guys. um But yeah, like Batman does end up feeling bad about it because he remembers Thomas Wayne saying, um you know you're a compassionate person, and and I'll always be proud of you.
00:38:50
Speaker
Yeah, because the absolute Thomas wasn't a doctor. He was a teacher. Yeah. um Which I think is a very interesting change. And so Thomas' whole thing is like, I try to change lives.
00:39:01
Speaker
I try to you know help the kids that I deal with. become the best versions of themselves. But you know what? like that's That's noble. Your mom was teacher, my mom was teacher.
00:39:13
Speaker
but all It's nothing but respect for teachers. Sometimes you don't do it. Sometimes, despite your best efforts, the kids go down a bad road and they become shitty adults and that's when Batman's got to put them in the fucking one-winged angel.
00:39:27
Speaker
That's when Batman's got to burn their compound down. yeah ah and there's there Yeah, there's that part where the priest shows up and he's like trying to like patch these guys up and, and Batman just kind of has to walk away from that.
00:39:42
Speaker
Yeah. Um, man, it's good. God, this is good. Holy shit. Daniel Warren Johnson, man. Daniel Warren Johnson's got it, man. That dude's got it.
00:39:53
Speaker
And then I did not to, not to short change it. Um, James Heron has a backup about black mask. That's also quite good. Um, but it, It ain't the main event here, I'm sorry to say. Which of Kenny Omega's signature moves are performed in that story?
00:40:09
Speaker
not that None that I'm aware of. yeah Unfortunately, this is the one that is exactly for us. Yeah. yeah One last book we're going to talk about is Marvel Zombies Red Band 2. Which...
00:40:24
Speaker
ah which
00:40:28
Speaker
As I indicated on Every Story Ever, I have recently reread all of the Marvel Zombies comics ah for for work reasons.
00:40:40
Speaker
And so I was interested to see what this book was. This is by Ethan S. Parker and Griffin Sheridan, two writers I'm not familiar with. And Jan Bazaldua is doing the art here.
00:40:54
Speaker
It is yet another total redo of Marvel Zombies continuity.
00:41:02
Speaker
So instead of ah zombie sentry showing up and infecting everybody like happens in the original Marvel Zombies, or I think the two other retcons, because there was one where it was like Groot that caused it,
00:41:21
Speaker
And then there was another Marvel zombie story where... I forget what the origin was in that one. But in this one, the Fantastic Four come down from space. And they have their Fantastic Four powers, but also they got zombified on their space mission.
00:41:35
Speaker
Which is not a bad idea.
00:41:39
Speaker
But I do feel like this series is kind of speedrunning things in a way... Where I really, really, really want it to slow down.
00:41:52
Speaker
And like, because this issue, the second issue introduces Jean Grey and like, she she's having like bad dreams about the X-Men getting turned into zombies and then it quickly happens.
00:42:07
Speaker
And then she's like disposed of by the end of this issue and they do an entire Secret Wars.
00:42:16
Speaker
And like like, not Secret Wars 2015. Marvel Super Heroes Secret Wars 1984. And like, ah you know, I like it when a comic, you know, gets to the point and and doesn't have a lot of like weird filler.
00:42:34
Speaker
But like, this seems to be like skipping over the story.
00:42:40
Speaker
You know what I mean? Like, I feel like that is an issue with Marvel Zombies as a whole. like the the original two Marvel zombie miniseries kind of skips over a lot of the zombie stuff and gets to immediately, these zombies have Galactus powers.
00:42:58
Speaker
oh you You remember that? Oh, I remember. yeah yeah This, like, it it just seems to be like on such a speedrun where it's like, hey, can we slow down and have like,
00:43:19
Speaker
a Marvel Universe zombie story, even if, like, i know you think you maybe you're going to repeat some of the stuff from the other ones, but, like, let's let's just take a breath here.
00:43:31
Speaker
um That's my feeling reading this. And, I don't know, unfortunately I wanted to like it more. i Clearly the idea of this series is to do all the big Marvel events and individual issues in a zombified way.
00:43:49
Speaker
Because the next one is apparently Infinity Gauntlet. That's a fun premise. um but But it is a lot to cram into a single issue. Yeah.
00:44:04
Speaker
It's just a lot to do. it's yeah It's a lot to do and dispose of in a single issue. And there's there's not a whole lot to hold onto, unfortunately. But...
00:44:17
Speaker
Let's talk about a comic that there is plenty to hold on to in, and that is great. And that is by our friend Erica Henderson, Harley and Ivy Life and Crimes.
00:44:29
Speaker
And we're going to talk to Erica directly about that right now. Let's do it.
Interview with Erica Henderson
00:44:46
Speaker
Joining us for the program this week, we are very pleased to welcome back a longtime friend of the show. ah You may know her as ah one of the three hosts of the Friends Till the End podcast, along with Matt Wilson and Benito Sereno.
00:45:00
Speaker
But... It is more likely that you know her or that you also know her as a three-time Eisner-Warp winning comic book creator, ah whose new book, Harley and Ivy Life and Crimes, is out this week from Detective Comics Comics.
00:45:17
Speaker
Erica Henderson, welcome back to the show. Hello. ah Great be back. Love you guys. Aw, thank you. You too.
00:45:27
Speaker
Now, Erica, you have said in the past that Harley and Ivy, like no one had ever told the story of how they got together before.
00:45:39
Speaker
And then you got to be the person to do that. How did that happen? how How did ah DC approach you or you approach DC and that become decided? Because it's awesome that you are getting to tell that story.
00:45:54
Speaker
Okay, so... They approached me. Ariana Totoro, who's my editor, approached me, but it was just with the idea of doing a Harley and Ivy book, because she edits the Harley book and then the separate Ivy book and kind of make sure that they don't get in each other's books too much. You can do it some, but like it's not a team book, right? So it's got to be this character's
00:46:26
Speaker
adventures. There's also always the risk of like, you put Harley too much in Ivy book and like Harley takes over a bit because she's the bigger personality. And so yeah, she's just she's wanted to do ah Harley and Ivy book.
00:46:39
Speaker
And we just threw around ideas for a long time. ah We did not get around to this until like, at least six months after.
00:46:55
Speaker
the initial conversation. In fact, I think the title came from a previous iteration of the book where it was going to be the idea was to fill in all of the gaps that have been happening when Harley and Ivy are in their separate books. And these are like shorter stories being told by old Harley and Ivy. And that's, that's why it's called life and crimes. because it's like meant to,
00:47:21
Speaker
be about the past, and it's still about the past, so it works.
00:47:26
Speaker
So, that leads to another question, though. like How do you balance it out? Because Harley's the bigger personality. like Is it just a matter of like Poison Ivy, in one specific respect, is the straight men?
00:47:42
Speaker
I'm trying to figure out how to answer this question without giving spoilers. ok But since it is...
00:47:50
Speaker
partly a romance book i'm kind of evening it out with uh romance feelings and where people are falling man i could be saying this better but i'm not sure how without like literally just saying straight up what i did i like i i do like the phrase romance feelings because i feel like you forgot the word love briefly what's but it's like we haven't gotten to there yet right like you don't start at love I mean, I do.
00:48:19
Speaker
Oh, fine. ah I start with loving my heart for everybody. It rapidly declines after. but Okay, but that's but that that's the love of brotherhood. not Not romantic love.
00:48:30
Speaker
Well, maybe for you.
00:48:35
Speaker
but Well, anyway, since we're in a ah fiction, I'm going to build from starting at not love to love in a relationship. Yeah. Yeah.
00:48:46
Speaker
I think that's a good progression. but So you you'd say that, like, the the the framing element of the story is this kind of, like, interview that's happening? Oh, no, no. That's gone. That was an old iteration where the title came from.
00:49:04
Speaker
ah oh okay The story is just like How did these two get together Which okay ah amazingly Puts us in the new 52 Yes i Yes ah i not to Not to give too much away but well that That's not a spoiler Because ah They already showed a page With face off Joker ye this is This is Joker with his face removed This is fucking Tony Daniel Full on reattached face Joker, and I gotta say, I'm so happy to see him. I never thought that I'd be like, I know that i remember that guy.
00:49:46
Speaker
I remember that version of the Joker. Yeah, I didn't know that I would be excited about it either, but I totally am. yeah I love that, because i love I love that you, like, page one, you start with ah ah Batman colon Harley Quinn 1999,
00:50:04
Speaker
ah and and they're meeting during No Man's Land, so we are... this this is a relationship that spans three different iterations of the DC universe. Yeah. I mean, that, that was something that actually i I liked, but editorial was like, you have to do this. Like we have to start with an introduction to this book that explains that we're in the past and also please show their first meeting.
00:50:30
Speaker
And you know what? I, it makes sense, right? Because like, no one's going to open a book in 2025 and be like, ah, yes. Yes. this takes place in 2012.
00:50:43
Speaker
did Did you think about maybe putting in an editorial note that said this book takes place in 2012? Um...
00:50:52
Speaker
I... You know what? There were a few gags I was thinking of throwing in but I figure, like...
00:51:00
Speaker
Eh. You know what? It's all so nebulous, even, like, when things took place in the New 52, that I'm like, yeah As long as we have the general era down, that's all we really need.
00:51:13
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, what was happening in 2012 in comics is probably in this i in the sliding timeline, like, you know, 2021 now or something. Yeah, pretty much. but So it it gets real it gets real fuzzy after a point.
00:51:36
Speaker
i mean, that that was... The 52, there's no stopping us now, Matt. What's going on in 2012? Yeah, they were holding the line at $299. I we
00:51:49
Speaker
think that might have been before. but Yeah, I think it was. yeah I'm very curious, Erica. Because i i feel like you cannot tell a a story about Harley and Ivy first getting together without having Joker in it.
00:52:16
Speaker
And if you want to talk about a character with a big personality who threatens to take over a narrative, Joker is it. So I'm wondering, like...
00:52:30
Speaker
If someone had just asked me, hey, do you think Erica Henderson likes the Joker? I'd be like, probably about like as much as a normal person does. So I'm curious like how you decided to approach like not just the Joker, but that specific version of the Joker who cut his face off.
00:52:52
Speaker
Okay. One, I tried not to, like, mire myself too much and, like, oh, let's specifically make sure we get this version down exactly because people are going to want to, like, hear that voice.
00:53:07
Speaker
You know, I didn't worry about that too much. Yeah, you know, in in this case, my approach was more like i I have enough of a personal headcanon of who the Joker is combined with the idea of, like,
00:53:23
Speaker
this face peeled off version of him is kind of like the personification, the platonic ideal of the terrible boyfriend.
00:53:36
Speaker
He's just literally a monster, and I'm kind of leaning more in that direction. Just like, yeah you know, that this book's more about that. It's not about the Joker. It's more about what he represents.
00:53:48
Speaker
but But also, ah one thing that I was... That I wanted to do was So he's in this story dressed up as a Cab Calloway.
00:54:01
Speaker
Yep. I was going to mention his zoot suit. Yep. Yep. And that that's partly because when I was thinking about it, i was like, all right. This someone who had his face cut off, but he put it back on again, right?
00:54:16
Speaker
So that means that he cares about presentation. So I don't buy the like, oh, I'm in a gross boiler suit things. Like, no, no, no. You know, he he literally puts his face on every morning.
00:54:28
Speaker
This is someone who sits down and cares about his appearance.
00:54:34
Speaker
Yeah, like, he is, like, he's theatrical. Yeah. Like, he cut off his face to make a point, but he still wanted to look like the Joker. Yeah,
00:54:45
Speaker
He's more like Freddy Krueger. It's a different thing altogether. I'm very curious, because I feel like bad boyfriends and in our world are really into the Joker.
00:55:02
Speaker
So I wonder what movie character the Joker is really into as a bad boyfriend. I wonder, just because, like, do you think he sees a lot of modern movies, or do you see him watching a lot of things that are, like, just public domain.
00:55:20
Speaker
Well, I think kind of by by the necessity of being an IP himself, he probably has to wait for things to fall into public. He just saw Steamboat Willie. He just found out about Mickey Mouse.
00:55:32
Speaker
It's going to change his whole life. But for some reason, like, I picture the Joker turning on TV, and it's just one of those things where it's like, obviously this was the cheapest clip we could get to put on the TV in the background.
00:55:46
Speaker
And like that's all I picture him watching. Joker enjoys so many fine Warner Brothers Discovery products. Yeah. He loves Ghost Hunters.
00:55:58
Speaker
He loves Halloween Cake Challenge, or whatever the fuck that thing's called. He's always wanted talk to Batman about Shark Week. Yeah.
00:56:08
Speaker
just Just mainlining how it's made. The Joker. Learning about how they make hot dogs. ah HGTV. doa Oh yeah.
00:56:20
Speaker
The Joker in in the DC Universe, he's definitely killed one of the Property Brothers. Oh, which one? Maybe that third one that isn't actually a Property Brother. that the The one who's... The Levine impersonator?
00:56:34
Speaker
Leave the other two for for Harvey. Well, I was going to say, it's either the one who's married to Zooey Deschanel or not. But if it's the third one, then you I guess you sidestep that issue.
00:56:46
Speaker
One of the property brothers is married to Zooey Deschanel? Yes. Yeah, dude. I did not know that. this is I am finding this out right now.
00:56:56
Speaker
i I think I only found out because I got served one of those ah architectural digest, please look inside of our home. ah We just cleaned it a whole lot. videos and it's the two of them and I was like what are you talking about wild it's weird it's i mean you know love is love I guess but yeah I don't know why it's weird but I don't like it and I can't I can't articulate it I could not tell you why that's weird but it is i don't have really any feelings about either of those people but I don't like it mixing
00:57:37
Speaker
So yes, I also like that you used the phrase, ah that the you mentioned that you have a specific headcanon about who the Joker is, because Erica, that's canon now.
00:57:48
Speaker
That's the nice thing about it. That's true. Yeah. And also it takes place in the past, so it's going to bleed into everything else. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And you can you can have him like literally turn towards the reader and say, this is how I for real really am.
00:58:07
Speaker
And it supersedes anything else that you may hear about me.
00:58:14
Speaker
Yeah. i the Joker, between Tony Daniels Detective Comics and but Batman Endgame, these are the things I believe.
00:58:28
Speaker
These are the things I believe. Yeah.
00:58:33
Speaker
Yeah, no, absolutely. You have... it's it's ah It's a precious opportunity. There's... There's like one line that is coming up in like issue five or six that has been, I've wanted to write so badly that it was like, I wrote the full scene in my outline when I was like pitching the outline. I was like, listen, hear me out.
00:59:01
Speaker
I know all the other outlines are three sentences, but there's a gag here that I really got to do. really got to get it in here. ah okay it's It's a ma huckle thing. I feel like Jadzia and I have been like neck and neck trying to get her out there first.
00:59:19
Speaker
Is there anything that you can tell us that you like anything that you were like, I gotta, I gotta put this in here. gotta make a reference to this.
00:59:32
Speaker
I let's see. There's one that was just rejected recently. Yeah. I mean, I'd love to hear I um i wouldn't even know where this would go at this point, because I don't have him in any outlines or anything like that.
00:59:52
Speaker
ah But I ah really wanted... to have some kind of thing about how Riddler is still using his 90s AOL screen name.
01:00:06
Speaker
And it's Nygma Balls. That's very good. That's pretty good. extremely good.
01:00:16
Speaker
they They should have rejected that. that should That should be in there. That's my take on that. I... take on that if i Let me edit that book. and If someone else wants to try again in the future, yeah i you know wait 10 years.
01:00:34
Speaker
I do feel like I, Matt, I had to have said it to you because I don't know who else I was, I would say it to, but I did say one time that I wanted to do a story where Batman keeps calling him Ligma.
01:00:46
Speaker
And finally, he like he gets mad and corrects him. it And then Batman's like, Ligma balls. And Riddler just explodes. Yeah. Like, he immolates immediately. Okay, I don't think that would happen in a regular Batman book, but that would 1000% happen in Absolute. In Absolute Batman, that would definitely happen, yes. yeah yeah it It might have already. i'm I need to go back and reread those issues to see if that's already happened.
01:01:13
Speaker
yeah Then I... Yeah, I'm going talk to you after the show. ah So, Erica, are you... the the The version of the book that I've seen has like the the little... The version that sent to two minutes before we started recording, yes. oh That's right.
01:01:33
Speaker
There is a little bit of like interview at the start of that issue. So is that stuff gone now or is that still in there? Interview? like Like caption boxes where Harley and Ivy are talking about how they first met. that's all in there.
01:01:50
Speaker
Okay. Okay. so and And there's like a question that prompts it that seems like you know they're talking to somebody. I've interpreted it as an interview, but like you know it's it's it's it's that big kind of red text of somebody asking them to tell the story of how they met.
01:02:14
Speaker
is Is that – not take going into any spoilers, but like are we going to see that version of them –
01:02:24
Speaker
That's talking to this unseen voice later in the series. I feel like if we're renewed enough times, yes. Okay. I currently have 12 issues outlined as like a sort of long arc and we don't have it there, but I think that's something i interesting to get to later because obviously, yes, there is a conversation happening.
01:02:46
Speaker
Yeah. ah It's just, it's, you know i This is where my brain is at. like It immediately makes me think of this. There's this improv form called the weird ass where like the the intro, like the start of it is two people sit down in chairs and like talk as if they're being interviewed in like a Christopher Guest movie.
01:03:13
Speaker
And it like establishes their relationship. And... I think it's very cool that Harley and Ivy are doing that. like Like, you know, sort of talking to the camera about how they met.
01:03:25
Speaker
ah Yeah, it it's it was sort of a holdover from that earlier idea, but it it just worked for this intro bit. Yeah.
01:03:37
Speaker
So it was like, yeah, sure, let's just do it. I'm very excited about it, Erica. Thank you. I'm glad one of you is.
01:03:48
Speaker
but i i'm asking I'm asking thoughtful questions. No, I like this because I feel like Erica has learned that she needs to team up with me against you or I'm going to tell you start talking about how all you do on your show is insult me.
01:04:02
Speaker
Which is everything that happens on Friends to the End. Which is not. we It's a very good We don't do that and only Benito does. fuck Yeah, fuck that guy.
01:04:13
Speaker
That could be true, actually.
01:04:18
Speaker
I gotta say, love that show. I wish that... Look, I'm gonna be honest with you. I don't wish that Chucky was still on the air. Because I don't like that haunted doll.
01:04:33
Speaker
yeah I don't like him. you're you're glad You're glad that it was cancelled after a cliffhanger. And all of the fans were left hanging after passionately advocating for the show to be brought back. okay Absolutely. i I want them to be sad.
01:04:53
Speaker
Where are we going with this? i What I'm saying is, I do wish that it that your show still came out on a weekly basis. Because literally last week, I was talking to Matt and Benito on this show for like an hour and a half, and then I went and listened to the latest episode of Friends to the End, and I was like, hell yeah, it's my boys and Erica.
01:05:18
Speaker
And ah it was just a nice time. I enjoy listening to the show. ah That's nice. it is it It was tough to do weekly even when we were doing it. when the show It is very tough to do a weekly podcast, that's true.
01:05:32
Speaker
Yeah. yeah um So so the the the monthly movie cadence is certainly easier. Although we have discussed the possibility of picking up another TV show.
01:05:47
Speaker
So we'll see. I don't know if you need to do another TV show. Not that I, like, this, not, if I can give you some notes on the show you do.
01:06:00
Speaker
But i you know, there's, there's, there's like 15 Nightmare on Elm Street.
01:06:08
Speaker
There are not 15. No. There's a lot. Yes. and they And one of them's about Dream Warriors. I think more than one.
01:06:20
Speaker
mean, one's called Dream Warriors, but then they they... I'm not going to get into this. I'm not going to... See? I need to know. I need to find out. Yeah, but they they do get progressively harder to watch.
01:06:35
Speaker
I mean, you say that.
01:06:39
Speaker
You did have to abandon the purge. We sure did. We sure did. That's hard to watch in a different way. Yeah, I like the show. I like listening to... ah I mean, you're well aware that I like listening to Matt, but I also like listening to the three of you talk. It's very fun.
01:06:58
Speaker
That's all I got. Okay. Just excited. Just excited. Excited about Harley Ivy? Excited about Friends to the End? Well, I have questions, but I feel like they are not the kind of questions that I should ask my longtime friend, Erica Henderson,
01:07:18
Speaker
that ah on our show where we are interviewing Erica as a professional, because I'm going to be like, Erica, do you like Harley and Ivy? Like, do you think, do you remember that, that episode of Batman the Infinite series where they hang out?
01:07:29
Speaker
That was pretty good. Wait, which one? but Harley and Ivy. You need to give me... s slight I don't remember the titles of all of them. Oh, okay. Well, ah it's the... Well, there's the there's the one where they hang out at Christmastime, which is called The Harley and the Ivy, ah which was based on ah a comic that... I'm aware where it's based on.
01:07:51
Speaker
Yep. I'm sure I have it upstairs. That was the listeners. Okay, sorry. Erica, I know you know. ah I actually... That does raise a question, like... Did you...
01:08:03
Speaker
feel the need to like go back and research? Or were you like, yeah, I got it. I know these two. I'm familiar. Well, oh I had to do a certain amount of research just because I can't just be like, oh, I'm just going to base this all on headcanon because no, it does take place within you know a certain period of the DCU with very specific things happening.
01:08:29
Speaker
Actually, when we finally like had everything... laid out we were you know the book had been greenlit I then got uh a couple of folders on box that were just full of pdfs so I had like first appearances um a bunch of no man's land I had bunch of New 52 is Suicide Squad to get some of the, like... There's a whole lot of Joker just beating the shit out of Harley in that series. It is lot of fun read. wo Yeah, ah
01:09:14
Speaker
yeah I got, like, the entire... Pomiati, Connor run. I got, like, all of the G. Will Wilson stuff. So I was just like, you know, it was stuff I'd read before, I was just like, alright, I'm just gonna spend two days and read these comics.
01:09:27
Speaker
Well, it does kind of feel like it would be maybe kind of like a ah tough knot to untangle, because like, so much of I think what people think of when they think of Harley and Ivy does come from like...
01:09:45
Speaker
the animated shows, specifically the new Batman and Robin adventures and not so much what has happened in the comics. Like it's one of those examples of comics following what happened on TV instead of the other way around. And so. Yeah. Like, did you have to, I am very familiar with the show.
01:10:09
Speaker
Right. But like, but i also feel like that could be confusing if like, some of what happened in the show got mixed in with, you know, the comics continuity.
01:10:20
Speaker
So like, did you have to just like really remind yourself of like, all right, this stuff counts in that other, and this stuff was from a totally different medium. I don't think so because I'm not pulling specific references and being like, Hey, remember when I was let out of,
01:10:40
Speaker
archam and then yeah i accidentally robbed a place and Batman took me back in. Like, I'm not doing any of that. Yeah, I mean, I guess starting at the beginning helps with that a good amount.
01:10:51
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I feel like a lot of that a lot of that reading was actually stuff that would take place possibly after where this book is, or at least where it starts.
01:11:03
Speaker
So you I think it was a lot of just... getting a handle on different iterations of the characters, you know, so it's not just the one thing.
01:11:16
Speaker
And I don't know how much that actually changed. I think it changed what I was doing with Ivy a lot more. I'd already read a bunch of the G. Will Wilson Ivy. um But yeah, like the current take on her, because that's what she's doing now,
01:11:31
Speaker
is kind of, have to lean into that a little bit more emotionally. You know, we're not doing the, ah sex pot Ivy as much as like, I guess, depressed Ivy.
01:11:45
Speaker
Well, if she, she definitely comes off in this as like a very kind of ah funny way to talk about a plant person grounded character.
01:11:58
Speaker
Um, like Like, she's the one who seems to to pull Harley back down to Earth. It sort of seems like to me. is is that but part of your take on her?
01:12:14
Speaker
Sort of? I mean, yeah, she obviously is more grounded, right? Because like we have one person who's like clinically insane. you're Right, yeah. um But, yeah, there...
01:12:27
Speaker
Before i even wrote up like the 12-issue outline to get greenlit, I sent my editors like a two-page document explaining how I view these two characters, how I view them a relationship, how they view each other in a relationship, and how they work and don't work.
01:12:50
Speaker
ah So I do have like my own little Bible for the two of them.
01:12:58
Speaker
that I think I just had to put out there to be like, listen, I know this is the crux of what we're doing, so here's this first. And then you can like base the outline off of what I've written here. ah So I have thought about it a lot.
01:13:13
Speaker
I'm really interested, like when you dug into that relationship, like what jumped like the idea of figuring out how they work and how they don't work is very fascinating to me.
01:13:26
Speaker
like How do they work and how do they not work, Erica? I mean, like I'm going to read the series. Let's Again, i don't want to like give away what I'm doing, but part of it part of why I wanted to write that is like because when I read even watched the cartoon, all these places where the two characters intersect,
01:13:53
Speaker
because they're not all together all the time, we don't actually see a real relationship. It's just like, Oh, I love you. We're together. We're doing kisses now. And like, maybe that's part of a relationship. That's not like most of it, you know?
01:14:10
Speaker
And so I stepped back and I was like, all right, so I've got to like write all the other parts and some of the kissing parts. Um,
01:14:21
Speaker
And if you just sort of put these two down on paper, they like, you wouldn't think that they would be a couple. Like, they don't seem to make sense together in the way that like, on paper, Joker and Harley make sense, you know?
01:14:40
Speaker
And so it's like, all right, what is it that like, these two offer each other? that they need and what do they need as characters or as people obviously because they're different in what ways would they piss each other off a thing that's also present in relationships yeah it was a lot it was just a lot of like sitting down and thinking about that push and pull of like all right you have someone who's super driven has like really
01:15:15
Speaker
hyper-focused to a problematic degree on one thing, and someone else who's pretty much ADHD and also doesn't care about that one thing. Like, you know, Carly has never once cared about plants.
01:15:32
Speaker
oh ah And, you know, she's in a relationship with someone who, like, only cares about plants, and then I guess also Harley. Yeah. but yeah like I have to figure out how to get to that and also Harley bit.
01:15:44
Speaker
um you have But then like you know thinking about the Willa Wilson stuff, Ivy is someone who's like wildly
01:15:54
Speaker
like depressed, has trauma, is kind of partly doing a lot of this stuff to avoid her trauma, and she's dating a therapist.
01:16:05
Speaker
That's... I love that. because Because the answer cannot be Paul Dini thought it was a good idea. like That cannot be the source of their relationship. Right, yeah. like Because in one issue and then later the cartoons they like started putting them in the same room together.
01:16:27
Speaker
yeah Suggestively. ah Because it was you know Fox in the 90s you could not have lesbians. Well, just against all odds, they managed.
01:16:41
Speaker
Yeah. Well, you couldn't have blatant lesbians. but There we go. There we go. Well, Erica, I think it might be time for us to kick it over to our listeners to see if they have any questions for you.
01:16:54
Speaker
all right. Matt, if people want to get in on conversations that we have with friends like Erica, how can they go about that? There are two places you can go to ask questions for our guests. You can either go to Blue Sky. We're there as warrocketajax.com. you can join our Discord and be part of that community. And we will ask for questions for our guests in the Listener Questions channel there.
01:17:23
Speaker
And if you're in one of those places, you can ask questions like these. Questions for Erica Henderson. Erica, we got... Many versions of this same question. Okay, shoot.
01:17:36
Speaker
If you were to put your soul into a doll or toy, what would you choose? Okay, first of all, wrong show, but... Well, we don't take Lister questions on that show, so that that does make a degree of sense.
01:17:50
Speaker
I mean, I feel like because these are coming from clearly listeners of Friends to the End... I have to say the California roller baby. Just just for them.
01:18:07
Speaker
Yeah. If you don't know about the California roller baby, you got to go listen to Fred Silly End. Yeah. You learn all about the California roller baby.
01:18:18
Speaker
Read Strong's Strong Reads on our Discord wants to know, does Harley need the accent? While the show isn't for everyone, it's definitely at least succeeded in its own identity for the character.
01:18:32
Speaker
Yes. And that is partly because i was delighted. i was amused by the fact that they made her in the comics canonically from Brooklyn, which is where I'm from.
01:18:48
Speaker
um I was like, that that's fun. And then the HBO Harley Quinn cartoon decided to give her like, real dirtbag Italian-American parents and then put her in the neighborhood I'm from in Brooklyn.
01:19:05
Speaker
And I was like, ah, ah, perfect. Yes, I know these people. Yes, they are dirtbags. And yeah, we need the accent because I i love that ah we are from the same place and I feel like I have to canonically have her from Bensonhurst in the comics now.
01:19:24
Speaker
but That is one of the places where I will like you know use my power to force cannon. I think it's hilarious that it couldn't just be like, no, no, there's ah there's a there's an area of Gotham where people talk this way. No.
01:19:39
Speaker
She has to be from Brooklyn. It's the only way. yeah and Her parents are like you know mafia adjacent. Yeah. yeah But Harley's Jewish.
01:19:53
Speaker
Yeah, i i you know what? I'm not getting into that question. Okay. Because like it it seems it depends on who you're talking to that she's either, and I don't feel like addressing it.
01:20:05
Speaker
I don't feel strongly enough about which one she is.
01:20:11
Speaker
ah well while we're While we're talking about that, Jodi Troutman, our good friend on Blue Sky. Jodi asks, Erica, did you make those latkes yet?
01:20:23
Speaker
No.
01:20:26
Speaker
Okay, Jodi, if I earn enough points in the grocery store, I get a five-pound bag of potatoes, and then I'll make the latkes.
01:20:35
Speaker
How do you get points at the grocery store? but You just get points for buying food. Oh, it's not like a... It's... Okay. Yeah, yeah, it's just like a membership thing.
01:20:47
Speaker
Where we live in car land... When you buy stuff at the grocery store, you get points for purchasing gas. That's also a thing, but yeah I want those potatoes.
01:21:06
Speaker
Frankadelic on our Discord wants to know, what's the next big super romantic pairing you want to write for? Oh, but that's the question I have actually think about.
01:21:16
Speaker
ah Now I'm doing that thing where I'm just sort of wildly looking around the room, hoping that something on a wall will give me the answer. Because my my mind has completely blanked.
01:21:32
Speaker
I mean, it could be Chucky and Tiffany. But I feel like that's Joker and Harley Quinn. That's true. I don't think he's a good husband.
01:21:44
Speaker
I mean... Tiffany is arguably less sympathetic than Harley. ah Yeah. Harley goes back and forth because it's sort of depending on, uh, who's writing her.
01:21:58
Speaker
She can either be blowing up buses full of children or be like your wacky fun friend. Yeah. And yeah, I feel like we, we are sort of back into wacky friend territory with some minor violence, but, uh,
01:22:16
Speaker
But yeah, Tiffany is a murderer, but like it yeah it's still domestic violence. That's true. Yeah, I mean... her it's it's It's... Yeah, it ain't it ain't that much better.
01:22:31
Speaker
but No. i feel like there's more of a give and take with Chucky and Tiffany, where like... Sure, she will kill him back. Yeah, which which one of them is is the abusive one? Or maybe they're both abusive, which ain't better either. But anyway, ah we can move on.
01:22:50
Speaker
but just Just real quick. I think that they're they're both bad, but she's more emotionally invested and gets hurt in more than one way. That's true. Yes, absolutely.
01:23:02
Speaker
ah No Kangs on our Discord wants to know... A sequel to Dracula motherfucker win. Oh, I don't know. ah I don't, we don't have anything planned for that. We've, we've talked about a third book in this sort of unofficial series of horror books, but yeah, for for us, I think like that story's done.
01:23:30
Speaker
Like we don't really, whatever happens, those characters at this point, is up to them or anyone else's imagination. But like for us, it's, ah it's just that that segment is what we were interested in.
01:23:47
Speaker
ah Stone Cold HCC, an account that exists only to ask questions on Warlock and Ajax wants to know from you, Erica, do you agree that every other podcast is fucking dumb as shit? i no because I have another podcast.
01:24:04
Speaker
That's true. That's true. I don't know if Stone Cold meant that inclusively. o ah with i i do enjoy Apocrypals. Right. i Those are all in the family, I feel like. yeah but so And there's the one where LeVar Burton reads to you.
01:24:23
Speaker
Oh, that's a good one, too. Yeah.
01:24:27
Speaker
so All the other podcasts,
01:24:31
Speaker
though. Speaking of apocryphals, I do still want you to to get you to design my inevitable tattoo of saints.
01:24:42
Speaker
Oh, ah just to let you know, I showed Benito earlier, but a i was at a Halloween party and our friend showed up as Saint Lucy holding a plate of eyeballs.
01:24:54
Speaker
Love that.
01:24:58
Speaker
ah Mike on our Discord asks, any thoughts on specific references to your Squirrel Girl run appearing in Marvel Rivals? The Deadpool supervillain trading cards got mentioned and I lost my shit.
01:25:11
Speaker
I mean, for me, when it comes to this kind of stuff, like, it is cool that the iteration of Squirrel Girl that Riot and I came up with is now, like,
01:25:28
Speaker
the squirrel girl, like no one's doing that Ditko costume anymore. Right. So like I have it, I have in this way defeated Steve
01:25:43
Speaker
And so that, that's very exciting. But when it comes objectively funny, when it comes to you know, like these characters being used in other places, like I just sort of, divorce myself from all that because like I don't own this this is not mine can't be worried about this stuff but yeah the fact that you know this character has been around since 1992 and then Ryan and i get our hands on her and she becomes a thing like that's cool I like that Tom on our discord wants to know how long did it take you to realize that Harley and Ivy was a pun because Tom feels like it was an embarrassingly long time for him
01:26:24
Speaker
I haven't said any things. I'm trying to figure out the pun. It's the holiday ah Holly and the Ivy. Oh, that one. Okay. All right. Yeah. All right.
01:26:37
Speaker
Yeah, it's funny. Someone mentioned that earlier this week, and I still didn't think about it. Because... do you think it was meant to be a pun, or it just worked out that way? it i I'm pretty sure it's...
01:26:51
Speaker
and i I mean, Harley Quinn was created with a different pun in mind. Sure. And then, and then Paul Dini wanted to put them suggestively in the same rooms.
01:27:05
Speaker
Well, well i I think it was a pun in reference to that Christmas episode. Yeah, i mean, it's it's the title of the the Christmas story. Yeah, so it's definitely a pun there.
01:27:16
Speaker
so do you think that we, like, plants have this, like, important gay relationship in 2015, or 2025. God, totally for about what year it was.
01:27:30
Speaker
Erica, you have to warn them! I know. ah Because Deanie wanted to make a pun in, like, the early 90s. I think the pun was convenient and unintended until that, like,
01:27:51
Speaker
Like, let's do a Christmas story about Harley and Ivy called The Harley and the Ivy. and come Okay. Because they they had already put them together. Paul Dini and Bruce M were already shipping these, too. It's true. ah Question.
01:28:07
Speaker
Do you think, had the 1991 Flash TV show continued, that the ah proto-Harley Quinn trickster girlfriend from the final episode...
01:28:21
Speaker
ah would have been a a lesbian relationship at some point because it's the exact same character. I don't know about this. What? Yeah, I don't know about this.
01:28:34
Speaker
Okay, so... ah
01:28:38
Speaker
The last episode of the Flash 1991 TV show features Trickster. It's reappearing... played by Mark Hamill. but Yeah, it's Mark Hamill.
01:28:48
Speaker
And we find out that there is a blonde who is obsessed with him, creates a character for herself to become his sidekick, busts him out of prison, and then he treats
Humorous Debates and Questions
01:29:01
Speaker
her poorly. Paul Dini worked on that show.
01:29:06
Speaker
I just had to look her up to see if she was played by Arlene Sorkin.
01:29:13
Speaker
Because that would have been bananas. Just too much? Yeah, that would have been too much. She seems more like a punchline than a heartly. o I do like that her name is Prank.
01:29:26
Speaker
That's great.
01:29:30
Speaker
Does her costume look like a bed sheet as well? Like like his version of the trickster? Because... My word. It is... but what What a design for that for that outfit he had. The costume looks like kinda psychedelic 80s workout wear.
01:29:54
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, that's that's not too far off from what what he was rocking, too. Yeah, it's it's something.
01:30:03
Speaker
Uh, let's see Let's do one last question. This is from David L. on our Discord, who wants to know, what's the least haunted doll? I'm gonna say Midge, the pregnant Barbie, because actually she contains a miracle.
01:30:20
Speaker
Oh, that's that's quite lovely. That's quite lovely. I know it's out of I'm trying to think of the most unhinged thing I could say at that moment. I know it's out of my expertise, but do you mind if I take a swing at this one?
01:30:32
Speaker
sure It's Annabelle. Those people were fucking con artists.
01:30:37
Speaker
But that guy died, Chris. one That one ah Raggedy Ann doll that they put behind glass. Yeah. yeah yeah But I don't know if it's any more or less haunted than any other Raggedy Ann doll, you know? i i'll I'll tell you the first thing that came to mind for me, and that is um any Kermit the Frog.
01:30:59
Speaker
there's There's no way Kermit the Frog is haunted. Or ever could be. He was a vampire one time. And bit Vincent Price. But he couldn't be haunted.
01:31:12
Speaker
true i mean, Matt, you think you just contradicted the very thing you're saying. Being a vampire is not being haunted. Vampires ghosts two totally different things. Yeah, you're still yourself when you're a vampire.
01:31:25
Speaker
I have some thoughts on this, but this is beyond the scope of this show. don Don't do this to me. Don't tell me that Kermit could be haunted. but like that would That would tear me apart.
01:31:38
Speaker
I don't think Kermit is haunted, but yeah continue, please.
Promotions and Social Media
01:31:45
Speaker
Our guest has been Erica Henderson. Erica, thank you so much for coming on. ah It's always so, so nice to talk to you here on War Rocket Ajax. Before we let you go, please let our listeners know ah where they can find you and your stuff and how they can get Harley and Ivy.
01:32:03
Speaker
ah Yeah, so i am at ericafails.bsky.social on Blue Sky and at ericafails everywhere else, ah Tumblr,
01:32:14
Speaker
Instagram. ah I got Patreon. um Threadless. And you can find Harley and Ivy Life and Crimes at your local comic book store this week.
01:32:31
Speaker
Our guest has been Erica Henderson. Erica, thank you so much for coming on the show again. And I'm always delighted to read your stuff, talk to you, listen to you on podcasts.
01:32:45
Speaker
It's great. Thank you.
01:32:49
Speaker
Thanks once again to Erica Henderson for joining us on the show. Read Harley and Ivy Life and Crimes and all of Erica's stuff. If she's done something haven't read, I bet it's good.
01:33:00
Speaker
Yeah, we we we mentioned Dracula, Motherfucker. That's one of the best books of the last little while. ah But that does it for us. Matt, what do you think?
01:33:12
Speaker
Another one in the can. We did it. We did it. If you would like to get in touch with us, you can do it at our email address, which is warrocketpodcasts at gmail.com.
01:33:24
Speaker
As I mentioned earlier, we're on Blue Sky, warrocketajax.com there. We're on Tumblr, warrocketpodcasts.tumblr.com. You can ask us questions there. ah You can also get in touch with us on our Discord page.
01:33:38
Speaker
Ask us for an invitation on any of the places that I just mentioned. Yeah, email, Blue Sky, Tumblr. Ask us for an invitation on any of those places, and we'll provide you with one if you're nice about it.
01:33:51
Speaker
And then you can be part of that community of War Rocket Ajax fans. And sword enthusiasts. And sword enthusiasts, that's right.
Closing and Affirmations
01:34:02
Speaker
Our website is warrocketajax.com. It has every episode of the show that we've ever done. So go listen there. WarRocketWiki.com is the fan-run repository of all the information you could want or need about this show, WarRocket Ajax.
01:34:19
Speaker
If you want to find me and my stuff, go to mattdwilson.net to find links to my comics, my books, my other podcasts, and my social medias. Chris, where can people find you? Everybody can find me by going to the-isb.com. That is my website. It's got links to all the things that I do online.
01:34:39
Speaker
Thanks for listening, everybody. Yeah, thanks for listening. We're done. Until next time. Merry Christmas. And do not forget that Black Lives Matter. Trans rights are human rights. As are abortion rights.
01:34:53
Speaker
Drag is not a crime. Cops aren't your friends. Free Palestine. we love We love you. love you.