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Ethical Birding
719 Plays6 months ago
In this week’s episode, join Dexter and Jason as they discuss some key birding ethics that one needs to know and consider when finding bird joy. Everything from dogs and pets off leash while trying to experience Eastern Meadowlarks to the use of lasers to help folks get on birds, the attempt (and sometimes failure) to see birds like the Eastern Towhee, and the controversial practice of playing bird calls to lure birds in (why would you do this for Short-eared Owls?). Key attention is given to how we treat each other as an extension of our birding activity while out on the trail. It is no surprise that the experience of Black and brown folks in the outdoors provides a key nuance to this discussion (as indicated by Drew Lanham’s 9 Rules for the Black Birdwatcher). Of course there is also some bird joy, even if it’s found in the macabre practices of the “little bitty murderers” the Northern and Loggerhead Shrikes.
Be sure to follow our podcast on Instagram at @thebirdjoypd and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.
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Transcript
Adopting and Remembering Pets
00:00:00
Speaker
Question, are you a pet guy? Do you have a, do you own a dog? I got two dogs, homie. Two dogs. You got two dogs. So. There's three dogs. Three dogs, actually. Yeah, I have three. Oh, wait. So you're just forgetting a dog. You want to. Yeah, cause see, we ended up adopting. I just answered. Hold on now.
00:00:16
Speaker
We gotta have a conversation about this. How do you just randomly forget a dog? Listen, I have two, and then last year we adopted my brother's dog. So I still consider that my brother's dog because that's his little homie. Okay. The dog's not able to stay in the house with their baby. Okay, I guess I'll give you a... I'll allow it. Yeah, until my brother says that that's my dog,
00:00:39
Speaker
Then it's still his dog. So but yeah, we live with three lovely puppies that are quite energetic. All of them are the reason I bring this up and I got a vent a little bit with dog poop everywhere and all of some of my favorite
00:00:54
Speaker
like hard
Park Etiquette with Dogs
00:00:55
Speaker
faces. I like to go birding. And I'm like, you know, I get it. People, you got pets. I have a dog as well. You just mentioned you have three dogs. So like, I'm not saying this as somebody that doesn't like love pets. That's why I want to start there. Like, I love animals. I love my dog. But I also respect the rules of the park. And I understand these natural areas are not just for my pet to do whatever it wants to do. That's right. That's right.
00:01:21
Speaker
I think there's this fine line of like, I love my dog and like letting dogs run free and be animals and all that good stuff and letting them poop wherever they want to go and running through their nesting area for birds, right? Coming up here in a few weeks, just letting your dogs run through. I've seen people literally proud of their dog chasing birds through the field.
00:01:43
Speaker
Oh yeah, I see it on the beach all the time too. And I literally, I'm like, I'm definitely going to jail. I'm definitely going to jail on gay. Cause I'm going to fight somebody one day. And like, I shouldn't have to fight other dog owners. Like we should be a coalescing group of people that are smart enough to say,
00:02:01
Speaker
uh let's have dogs let's get them exercise let's get them outside but let's respect the rules of the different spaces where there shouldn't be dogs like we were just at um valley forge national historic park doing a walk and they have a big sign up that says
00:02:17
Speaker
No dogs at all, leash or otherwise starting on April 1st because of the nesting season for a lot of birds. I know the homie that put up the signs. I know how he feels about it. And I know why they're doing it. And don't you know, we out there with 25 people, probably running to three different dogs, all of them off the leash.
00:02:35
Speaker
that is crazy to me they know they're wrong too because we came around the corner and this one lady she immediately snatched her dog up and put it on the leash like i said thank you but like she kept looking back to see if we were watching her because we were we were creeping on some metal larks and guess where the stupid dog was running around right i'm sorry the dog's not stupid the lady was
00:02:55
Speaker
the dogs running around, right? You know, metal locks by themselves are hard to find because they're making noise and you can't see them if they don't turn around and let you see their belly and they are skittish. So it's like, we're all just like, man, I'm trying to get these homies on this metal arc. This lady's out here with this dog. Dog don't know no better. It's just running and having a great time and like.
00:03:13
Speaker
Yeah. It's a, it's a tough spot to me. I put people with dogs off leash in the wrong area in the same place. I put people that let their cats outside on, uh, attended
Educating on Pet Abandonment and Park Regulations
00:03:24
Speaker
to. Yeah. They think that's cool too. And I don't realize that equates to cats being the number one killers in the world. Oh, it's, you know, it's just my cat, but like they literally kill for fun.
00:03:36
Speaker
Yeah, cats are cool, but like, little Fluffy don't need to be out there preying on the Eastern Bluebird box. Like, come on, Fluffy need to be in the house. Or the American Woodtocks, you know? Yeah, like, you know, it's just, it's not, you know, yeah, there's still a lot of scientific communication, conservation education and communication.
00:03:56
Speaker
And just general scientific literacy that think i need you know it needs to happen in some of these different communities urban and suburban so world lives out in the middle of idaho and like she's got a tough because people will literally drive onto her ranch.
00:04:13
Speaker
and let cats go because they don't want to keep the cats anymore. So they'll just let them go near the closest farm thinking that they'll just live on the farm and kill mice and everything will be fine. My mom's got seven cats that she's taken just this year to get spayed and neutered because people just keep dropping them on her on her ranch, you know, and like people are the worst, man.
00:04:31
Speaker
so for us we start seeing the weather changing and we start hearing new birds and we're seeing new birds and there are a lot of people out here that are seeing that weather changes oh great i get to walk my dog more and
00:04:46
Speaker
and go to these different places. And I think what we're trying to say is at least, I mean, there are parks for dogs that can be off leash. There are dog parks, but if the park is a dog free park, there's a reason for that. If the park says this is your dog needs to be on the leash, it's pretty simple. Like put the dog on a leash and enjoy the park like everybody else. So at some point, where do we, where do you check the privilege at some point, right? Like at some point you got to check the privilege. I don't know. Yeah, honestly, I think it's going to take,
00:05:16
Speaker
you know, just some education and community building to try and get there. I've heard different people tell stories about how they deal
Ethical Bird Watching Principles
00:05:24
Speaker
with it. You know, most recently, Christian Cooper talking about his incident in Central Park and just generally how he likes to approach it. I've heard him talk about it. I've heard recently some folks that are doing piping plover work.
00:05:38
Speaker
on the New Jersey shore, talk about, hey, your dog can't be running up and in the sand dunes, and here's why. But they have a very specific way on how they approach it, right? They can't come in hot. They have to understand that other people feel agency about the beach. They feel a certain ownership of it, and they kind of want to do what they want to do. So their strategy, it seems like, is to first get people to fall in love with the plovers, and then explain to them, like, hey,
00:06:07
Speaker
You like that little chunky, beautiful little piping plover and those little beautiful quarter-sized babies. Maybe don't let your dog off leash here. There's a beach a couple miles down the boardwalk that allows dogs off leash. Yeah. You got to pick your battles there. That conversation is a nice segue into what we want to talk about today, which is an introduction to ethical. I'm putting in air quotes right now, ethical.
00:06:34
Speaker
bird watching as you're getting going. And I want to welcome everybody to the bird joy podcast. You know, sometimes we just start talking, right? We just start talking. But I'm Dexter Patterson. And I'm Jason Hall. This is the podcast for all the homies around the globe that want to find a little bird joy. Yes.
00:06:51
Speaker
You want a little bird joy, a little bird education. Hopefully you're better yet. Hopefully you're ready for some of that. Let's, let's get going today. So when we think about this, this idea of ethical bird watching, and I think there are so many different ways to look at this, but I think we can probably start by like just defining, you know, the way we kind of see what is ethical bird watching. How does that include just having general respect for wildlife and habitats and, and your fellow birders like.
00:07:20
Speaker
You know, if somebody asked you, Jason, what is ethical bird watching? Like what, where would you start with them? Oh, let's see. Well, you know, for me, it does depend on kind of what environment I'm in. So if we're talking about in the city, talking to my folks that live down in the city, you know, I would say ethical bird watching is the way to disturb the birds as little as possible with your own presence or the presence of your group, while also being able to enjoy, observe,
00:07:50
Speaker
marvel at the bird, because I think sometimes people have this assumption that ethical bird watching means no bird watching. It means you can't go into the forest or you can't go look at the bird or you can't go pursue that sound that you hear on the trail. You can do all that. You just have to be aware of that give and take. If I hear a black pole warbler with that rising and falling whistle and I get closer and closer and I see it and then it sees me
00:08:22
Speaker
Okay, what situation am I in right now? Is this bird migrating through Philly? Which they usually are. Do I want to mess with it if it's eating? Maybe it's early in the morning. It just got here. It just touched down after overnight flight. Do I want to let it get some grub or do I want to keep chasing it down this trail and bothering it? Or...
00:08:37
Speaker
Maybe I'm somewhere where they breed. So then I got to be thinking, am I messing with the nesting territory? And so those are two things to consider. And then at the same time, thinking to yourself, okay, well, what can I do? Can I back up a little bit? Can I find a quiet spot and just sit down and be still and observe the bird? These are the kind of things that we want to talk about. And every bird will be different, right? It'll be different if it's a great horned owl or an American white pelican or a Clark's nutcracker. They're all going to have different behaviors based on human interaction and how used to humans they are.
00:09:07
Speaker
the homies down in Philly, the rock pigeons, they're cool. They'll hang out with you on the sidewalk, right? The house sparrows, a couple of European starlings, they are just not afraid of me in my yard, right? So I'm just like, whatever homies, here's some extra mealworms. So it's really, you know, without getting super judgmental of people, but more just saying, Hey, we exist in this environment too, right? We're not humans are not
00:09:29
Speaker
separate from nature. We're part of it, right? Although we build things and destroy land here and there, we are part of nature. So we are, it's okay for us to find wonder and enjoy and spend time with it. I love starting there. Um, and it's just simply having that awareness that you share this space with this bird that is noticing me.
00:09:47
Speaker
If you can get to that point, I think that you're gonna be, you're probably a lot further than a lot of other people. If you really sit there and think about it and say, you know what, I am sharing this space with this bird right now. If you're there, you are well on your way to being ethical in anything. I just say that, honestly, but especially when you're talking about ethical bird watching, is just being cognizant of the fact that you share this space with this bird. That is a great way to start.
00:10:16
Speaker
That is an amazing way to start because you're going to have a different appreciation for that bird than somebody that just doesn't realize it. And we've talked about this in a previous episode is like once you start to pay attention, you don't realize like how many birds are actually around you. And then that next logical step is just be like, wow.
00:10:35
Speaker
I share this space with this beautiful creature. And once you have that, you're curious, you start to care a little bit. You kind of touched on this with the plovers, where it's like they're trying to educate people by getting them to care about the bird. Once you care about something, you're definitely going to be more inclined to want to take care of it.
00:10:54
Speaker
You're going to want to, you're going to be more inclined to be like, well, I'm not going to litter on this beach or I'm not going to let my dog run loose because what lives here, look what caused this home. So if we can get you to start there, like where do we start? If you're hearing our voices today, just start with the simple fact of acknowledging that you share the space with the birds.
00:11:13
Speaker
And an easy way to remember that is that that's exactly how we should be treating each other as humans. I have to talk to him. I have to find agency. I have to care about Dexter first before I can truly understand how to approach Dexter and make sure Dexter is welcome and I'm not crowding Dexter, especially if I'm going into Dexter's home or
00:11:35
Speaker
insert any community or person that is different from you. It has different experiences. It's really easy. Either we just treat them kind of the way we would want to be treated if someone entered our space. I think the difference with birds is that people have to learn how to read the behavior of the birds a little bit, right? Where we're all kind of
00:11:54
Speaker
have some general social cues, I think most of us to read each other so we can kind of choose to acknowledge or not acknowledge those, right?
Bird Behavior and Human Interaction
00:12:01
Speaker
And so choosing to acknowledge them and react to them with other humans is the same thing you do with the birds. And in most cases, at the very least that produces a safe situation and at the best produces friendship, joy, fellowship, appreciation, you know, all of these wonderful things we can get from each other and from the birds.
00:12:19
Speaker
Yeah. And when we start to think about our activity and like how we act around the birds, one thing I would just say is like, look, if you see a bird and notice you, great. Okay, cool. Let's just start with like not chasing after it.
00:12:32
Speaker
It's like start there. But like, you can walk slowly in the direction that a bird maybe flew away. And you can you can observe this bird and you're still on the designated trail stand trail and you can walk and observe the birds. I think that's really important. Obviously, if there if you see a nest or you see babies or anything, that's different. Like back off.
00:12:53
Speaker
leave them alone. They're probably working really hard to feed them like overtime to feed them and protect their nests from predators. Like they got a lot of things to be worried about. They all need to be worried about us. Yeah. And if it's a, if it's a yellow warble, it's probably feeding a cowbird baby. It's definitely working overtime. It's got a baby in a nest that's bigger than itself. You know, uh, we kind of just,
00:13:19
Speaker
Yeah, for folks that don't know, the brown-headed cowbird is a parasitic nester. And on the east coast, it preys on the nests of little yellow warblers. And the yellow warblers can't tell that the brown-headed cowbird laid its own egg in their nest. And so you get this really absurd scene over the summer.
00:13:37
Speaker
of this overworked yellow warbler mom feeding this baby that is three times the size of her, because she doesn't know any better. And if she does, she's going to feed it anyway, right? With more power to her, right? So you don't want to mess with that, regardless of the situation. And there's another thing, though, I want to ask you about, because it's quite a hot topic in the ethical burning space. And that is playback or playing tape. Yeah, I think. How do you all deal with that?
00:14:07
Speaker
Yeah. So we, in our club, we don't play, we don't play sounds and we encourage people not to. And we'd had, we'd had to deal with this with a person when we would go out and see the short-eared owls. And the guy was playing short-eared owl calls, trying to get cows to come up. And we had to like go up to the person and be like, Hey, no, this is not how we do this. And, you know, I've seen people do it all the time, whether it's ciliated woodpecker sounds and yeah.
00:14:34
Speaker
all these different things. And some people just don't know any better. I think I'm kind of, I fall in the category of let's not trick the little birds if we don't have to, you know, you can do it. To me, I started out, I started out listening to folks that just said no playback ever.
00:14:54
Speaker
Then I met some other folks that said, um, a little bit of playback, um, but only in the right situation. So, and when I say a little bit, I mean like a little bit and I only do it, I do it on our walks. Like, for example, the Eastern metal lock, right? The first field we were at, I was getting, there was, I didn't hear any metal locks there. It was cold. It was windy. And I was like, Hey, everybody, I want you to know what this sounds like. Cause you're probably going to hear them before you see them.
00:15:20
Speaker
So let me play this for you, right? We've just gotten a little huddle on the trail, right? I'm not blasting it on the speaker or anything. It's just on my phone. And I get ready to hit the button to play the metal lark song and just, you know, like five seconds of it and the metal lark in the field then sinks.
00:15:35
Speaker
I was like, you son of a- That beautiful, it's got like that melodic flute like, oh man. But it was only enough for me and some of the other experienced birders to hear because it wasn't the full song, it was just a couple of notes. So we all, like three or four of us, we looked up and we were like, what? So then I turned it down and I was like, all right folks, this is what you're listening for. And I just play it for them to hear it, but that's it. I don't have to play it anymore after that. But it's just helping the people on the tour get
00:16:02
Speaker
you know, the understanding of what they're listening for because it's kind of hard to really describe it. So the best part is we had no metal, really couldn't find any metal arcs in that field, the field they usually had. And we get out to this other field that they had just recently cut where the short-eared owls were for a while.
00:16:18
Speaker
And somebody in the group is like, yo, yo, yo, yo, quiet. Do you guys hear that? There's like three metal arcs out in this field going bonkers. And people that had never heard one because I played them a little bit of the song, you know, they had some reference, right? But the difference
00:16:33
Speaker
I wasn't telling them, Hey, let's connect this to a speaker and blast metal arc calls all over this field for 10 minutes straight. Cause we have a couple of people like that in Philly that have had to get checked around just incessant playback. It's like they can't bird and left unless they have playback.
00:16:52
Speaker
And it's like, come on, you know, like, and so I think the way to come down on it is situationally for a breeding territory, breeding season, do not use playback. Like you said, these birds are hardworking. They're going to want to defend their territory and you don't need to cause them extra stress to expend extra energy. If they are coming through from migration and you want to just say, Oh, was that, you know, I'm kind of wondering, like, I can't tell if that's a black to the blue warbler or black to the green warbler.
00:17:18
Speaker
And you say to yourself, I'm just going to do a second of playback and see which does it respond to either call, right? I think that's okay for a couple of seconds. But like I said, if you're in the forest, like blasting playback for 10 minutes, just being lazy AF waiting for the bird to come to you, that's
Responsible Birding Practices
00:17:35
Speaker
not great. That's not great at all.
00:17:36
Speaker
I think there are definitely educational use cases to be had there. I mean, I don't know about you, but I'm not a I can't do bird calls to greatest, but there are some pretty good. There are some educational use cases, I think. But I think in general, you want to try to avoid that type of behavior. Yeah, absolutely. And it's just like staying on the trail and observing the signs that you see around the park. Keep it all on a leash. Yeah.
00:18:04
Speaker
We talked about earlier or your dog is actually not supposed to be here, you know, follow the signs, avoid nesting areas in general. I think if we could leave that as a guideline for just just in general, like when it's nesting time and it's a nesting area, we got to be super respectful because they're literally trying to keep things going. They're trying to have babies. Like this is a pretty big deal. And we don't necessarily know their language. Right. And so when people use playback, most of the time I found it's really like
00:18:34
Speaker
They're just looking for any kind of response, but we don't know. Are we playing something that sounds like a rival?
00:18:40
Speaker
male, are we playing something that sounds like a distress call? We don't always know. And so what does that do to that bird or other bird species in the area? Right. And so I would say always err on the side of not using playback, unless it's for a reference purpose. And definitely like there's, there's more situations where you should not use playback than where you should. Like generally probably like a 95 to 5% ratio, right? I'm not using it. So.
00:19:07
Speaker
I think people, if people stick with that, they should be on the right side of things, you know, when it comes to the ethical pursuit of these birds. I think the other side of that equation is like, all right, yeah, playback stuff. That's one side. Another side that I've seen people kind of struggle with is the role of responsible photography.
00:19:27
Speaker
when you're watching birds and maybe the use of binoculars and cameras to observe birds from a distance. A lot of times where I hear people complaining about birders in regards to birds and wildlife is the photographer doesn't have respect for the bird or the habitat and going off trail, disturbing nesting sites, disturbing the bird just to get a little bit closer for that shot.
00:19:56
Speaker
I really want to stress the role of responsible photography because it seems like people ignore it and they don't realize that it's not always about the great picture, you know, and I do take pictures of birds and, you know, I always kind of have this attitude of sometimes you don't get the shot and I'll tell myself, well, I'll see it sometime or I'll get it. I'll get it. I'll get it another time. Like I'm always burdened. So like, don't freak out.
00:20:21
Speaker
I tell people that all, I'm like, you're gonna just be that bird again. You know that, right? There are very few, and I've had this conversation with members. There are very few birds that I legit chase. Very, very, very, very, very few. And chasing the mean of not chase it down the trail, chase it meaning it was reported and I'm about to go try to find it. Chase. Let me define chase there. And it's like birds that would never probably come back. We talked about the American flamingos.
00:20:50
Speaker
Like, if you hear about American flamingos reported in your area and it's never happened ever, like, that's probably a bird I'll drive to go see. You know what I mean? Other than that, I'm like, nah, I'll see you next time, or I'll see you next, this next spring, or I'll see you here, or I'll see you next time I go out. It helps take a lot of that pressure off of birding, doesn't make it feel so, like, competitive and, like, it should be fun. This show, it's about bird joy. And in a way that you have bird joy is you don't beat yourself up for those type of misopportunities. So, like,
00:21:20
Speaker
when the bird flies away and you just about to hit that shutter. Oh man. It happens all the time. It happens all the time. And I love like laughing about it. Like we had...
00:21:32
Speaker
On this walk this weekend, we had these Easton toys that were sitting down and letting everybody see them sing, right? Like couple males, you know, they were, they were beautiful, right? And I forgot my normal setup for my digiscoping, right? And so I'm trying to hand hold it, doing the thing. And I finally get the scope on, I get my phone out, I tried to, you know, line it up. And as soon as I get it in the frame, homie flies away and I'm like, ah, you know?
00:21:58
Speaker
And I love like telling people like, hey, these birds don't owe you nothing, right? They don't have to stick around for your picture. You know, you don't you just because you're human doesn't mean that you're owed some beautiful portrait of this bird. It's about how you enter this space and what the bird needs to do, you know?
00:22:16
Speaker
And I love how you said, like, if I don't get it, that just means I got to get it next time, which means that you have another adventure planned somewhere in the future, which is great. I want people to think about it, right? It's not a loss for the moment. It is a pin in it. Push it down the road. Now I'm going to have another shot at doing this. And I may get something even better than I ever.
00:22:39
Speaker
That's it right there. That's the stuff. I don't know how many times I've had conversations with people at events, like members of the club, where they're like, oh, man, I missed the so-and-so burb. And then I'll break it down, but you saw this one and this one and this one. And then remember when this happened, and next thing you know, the whole conversation changes. That's right. That's right. You go from like, I missed this and I missed that to like, yep, acknowledging that they've seen all these different things.
00:23:06
Speaker
Yeah, it's like if you had a dollar and it was all pennies and you saw and you got 95 of those pennies, like, don't worry about the other five. You get them five. Right. You know, but you got 95. Like, that's still awesome. Right. The fact that, you know, a lot of us are still fortunate enough.
00:23:23
Speaker
fortunate enough to wake up every day and have another shot at those five pennies. Those five birds in our patch that we've never seen that we're looking at e-bird and like, oh man, it's almost time of year. I missed them last year. You know, I'm getting excited. Like people should find joy in that. I was trying to explain that to people this weekend of like, that's the fun part.
00:23:42
Speaker
Right? Like seeing something that you don't know what it is and it doesn't match anything that you've learned already. And then you got a couple pictures, maybe a couple recordings, right? And you go home and now you're trying to figure it out. That's great. I mean, that's what it's like. You know, it's a puzzle, you know, so and you're going to learn something either way.
00:24:00
Speaker
And it, you know, and I will tell people this, you don't have to, you know, you can creep closer and closer and closer, but you know what's going to happen someday. One's going to jump right in front of you. Yeah. And you're going to have your opportunity. You just got to be ready for it. You know, I think that's the one thing, like sometimes you might miss your moment. Oh, well, but it's going to happen. You're going to get plenty of photo ops. You're going to get amazing photographs every single time you see the bird doesn't need to be that moment.
00:24:26
Speaker
That's right. Yeah. Let's talk about that. So you kind of touched on something. I want to touch on this idea of engaging with the burning community as a whole and just kind of encouraging listeners to engage with your fellow birders respectfully. When you see people out in the field, I've kind of seen both sides of this where it's like some people don't want to say a
00:24:46
Speaker
word to you. And some people will have a conversation with you. But what I will say is at least start with smile at people say hi, like if we can do that as human beings with each other, at least acknowledge each other on the trails. I think that's a good start. Yeah, yeah, it certainly is. And I know there are some
00:25:03
Speaker
let's say nuances to doing that if you're a person with black or brown skin. And so for me, when I'm out on the trail, I am a black man. I have brown skin. I, you know, I'm not a small person by any means. You know, when I'm out on the trail, you know, I try to make sure for my own safety,
00:25:23
Speaker
that people see me as a birder as soon as possible. And I know that might sound weird for folks. Right. But I try to make it. Yeah. Right. Like I try to make it evident that I have binoculars. Right. If I'm not holding my binoculars, my hands are open. My fists aren't closed. My hands are in my pocket. And I do. I try to make eye contact and smile with everybody I see just generally because I'm that kind of person.
00:25:49
Speaker
But I also, it's an immediate like, Oh, this dude's out here looking at birds. So whatever they think when they see a burly bald bearded black man in the woods, hopefully they get to a place of, Oh, this guy's looking at birds. Another thing I'll do is like, if I am looking at something in my scope and I can hear someone coming up the trail next to me, I'll keep looking at it in my scope.
00:26:15
Speaker
Um, because it, you know, and then I'll look up from my scope and give a smile because that gives them an opportunity to say, Hey, what are you looking at? I love it. I love it. Oh my God. I'm right. I'm like, yeah, you know, I'm looking at this Eastern toy in this Bush. You want to check it out? And they're like, I have no idea what that is. Right. I'm like, we'll check it out right now. Not that anyone deserves it, but for my own safety, I've taken a situation that could have been awkward or dangerous. And I've turned that person into.
00:26:43
Speaker
You know, maybe an advocate, right? I love it. When you're seeing me in the forest, at least. So maybe the next time they come across a black or brown person with binoculars in the forest, their first thought is not to clutch their pearls. Their first thought is, oh, man, I wonder what they're looking at. What bird they looking at? Yeah, right? Yeah. I do. I take a similar approach, man. And people always ask me, like, the vibe that they see, like, in my videos and stuff. Like, is that really you? I'm like, yes. Yes, this is who I am. OK?
00:27:12
Speaker
That is how I roll. It's not just like a video. Yes, I am out there. That's how I go bird. Very similar to you. They'll see me in the binoculars and I'm smiling. In their mind, they're like, this dude is smiling. He's really having a good time.
00:27:31
Speaker
It takes people defenses down a little bit and it does open up this windows of wonder. I love this idea of that. It's like they're wondering, like, what is making him smile so much? Like, why is he so happy? And then it's like they see you and then like it's almost like they can't help but ask you, what are you looking at or what are you doing? Or I mean, that's a that's a good human thing.
00:27:55
Speaker
That's right. That's right. No matter who it is. And it's OK. I meet people sometimes that are like, well, you don't have to do that as a black man. I'm like, what world are you living in? I do. I shouldn't have to, if that's what you mean. But I do for my own safety and for the safety of others. If I'm out with a group of birders and we're mostly BIPOC folks, I'm as a as a walk leader and we don't talk about this enough.
00:28:18
Speaker
I'm looking out for who else is out there outside of my folks. Who else is going to see a group of black and brown folks in the woods and have a problem with us, right? So I'm always looking to put myself in between my people and that situation in any way. I'm hoping that most of the people that are out with us can spend a great time birding because I'm trying to pay attention to like, all right, well, what's the best route for us to take? What else is going on in the park this week? You know, we do have groups around Philadelphia that are
00:28:46
Speaker
Let's say not as welcoming to different cultures and they do, you know, they have the first amendment right to do these demonstrations in different public places. So always have to look out for that. But I think going back to talking about how we wanted to interact with
Cultural Sensitivity in Birding
00:29:01
Speaker
the birds. It's, it's the same rule. Just be aware, try to treat others the way you want to be treated. And there are specific things we have to think about in black and brown communities, and that is okay. We should be doing that. Right.
00:29:13
Speaker
until the point in which we don't have to anymore. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, cause this is going to happen. They're going to be instances where not everybody going to be happy to see you out there. I will say, but the overwhelming majority of people are good. You know, those bad interactions that I've had and I've had my fair share, the good just outweighs them so much. But I think it's really, really, really important.
00:29:38
Speaker
to be aware of it. And I love that you brought up safety into this conversation today because it is something that needs to be top of mind. It's something that we take into consideration with all the events that we throw just because, not because we feel like every time we go out, it's going to happen. It's just because it could happen. It could. Yeah. And I think that's really important. And our people out there, new birders, people of color, people from underrepresented groups need to be aware of that.
00:30:08
Speaker
Yeah, sure. A possibility. I mean, it's kind of the world where we're at these days. Like, I mean, when you look at the politics of the world and we will not get into politics, we will not. It's just a pulse. Right. It's kind of like the pulse of the nation. And I try not to take that kind of stuff into nature because I feel like that's where a lot of that
00:30:28
Speaker
A lot of that stuff goes away for a lot of people. When they're out, they're birding, they're in nature, they're doing that. A lot of times people go there to get away from all that other crap. Sometimes those ideologies clash on the trail and it's just real, I think. We be bogus not to talk about it.
00:30:50
Speaker
That's right. That's right. I think we got to be honest with the people here. You know, this is not going to be when it comes to some of these situations, right? We're just, it's pointless to have a surface level conversation about it, right? We got to get into some of the depth of what it means. And there's plenty of information out there, right? About this. Um, if anyone has a few minutes, I encourage you to look up Drew Lanham's nine rules as a black birder. They're quite interesting. And so those are, those are great conversation starters, right? Just to
00:31:17
Speaker
aware. You know we'll get into that I think on a episode about safety maybe or you know some of the other aspects of being out in the field. I got I got I got one more question for you and I don't know if you guys do this or not when it comes to burning etiquette. Do you all use laser pointers at all or have you ever seen anybody use them? The green ones. Yeah the green ones yeah. Yeah so uh our Milwaukee leader Rita uses a green laser pointer. It's kind of clutch man. I just got one because
00:31:45
Speaker
It was really nice. I mean, and she's really good at where like she never puts it on the bird or anything like that. She's really good at being able to use it to get it to the general location to where it makes sense to how she's describing where she's pointing. And she gets people on birds way quicker. I think as a club leader, like it's genius. Yeah, I didn't even realize you could use them like that until I went I went on that trip to Tanzania last year.
00:32:13
Speaker
And our guides had them and it was great because they, again, they, they taught me the right way to use them. They were like, we didn't, we never put them on the bird. It's always a green laser. And we just point like I had one of my friends, George, it was his company that we went on the tour with and he would always be like, yeah, you know, see my laser on this tree trunk.
00:32:31
Speaker
It's about 10 feet above my laser on the street trunk and like really like showing me how to, you know, and then, and then the laser would go off, right? Once you're oriented to the space, you don't need it anymore, right? You don't have to keep circling the bird with it. So I just, I just thought that was interesting. Cause I keep forgetting to bring mine on my bird.
00:32:47
Speaker
And I just bought it like a few weeks ago and I'm like so excited to be able to use it. And, you know, it would have helped this weekend trying to get some people on that metal art because that homie was like just singing his little heart out and we could not find it. Dude, it had to be like 50 yards in front of us. And when it finally popped up, we all were like, man, we are idiots. Look at this thing. It was right there the whole time.
00:33:08
Speaker
So, yeah, I think laser pointers are cool. And it's interesting to just see how different people use them. But the ethical use of those is to never put them on the bird. The green lasers are the best. And once you have people in the area, turn it off. That's it. I think we might be looking into using them in Madison as well. Awesome. Rita's been using them in Milwaukee and I think it's a great idea.
00:33:31
Speaker
Anytime you can try to make those those events and our goal is to try to make burning as accessible as possible to as many people as possible and being able to get people so many times people like you'd be like pointing right at the bird. They still can't see it. Yeah. Yeah. It's tough. It's tough, right? It's tough. If I have anything.
00:33:51
Speaker
that I could use to make that easier for you. I am going to use it, especially if it doesn't disturb the bird. Let's go. I think they're great. What was your bird nerd moment of the week before we wrap up here today? It's so funny. You brought up the metal arc. I saw my first metal arc. I put out a little video because I got really excited. I was like, all right, let's go find them. I heard one. I said, we got to go find it.
00:34:18
Speaker
So we found it. Homie was, got pretty close about, yeah, say about 30 feet away, 20, 30 feet away. And it was just singing away. So that song, something else. But I would say, so yesterday we went out, we had a tour of this place. It's like, it's a private wetland, woodland, like this nature preserve. It's not open to the public.
00:34:40
Speaker
and we were touring it and we just saw like all these turkey vultures and it was kind of cool so once you start seeing the turkey vultures that's also a really good sign of spring especially when I start seeing them in large numbers I'm like okay we came up a little closer and one of the turkey vultures was sun in itself how nice that was pretty cool man
00:34:59
Speaker
and everybody like started freaking out. But what I would say, it was this moment. It's one of those mundane birdie moments, kind of similar to like we were talking about like the house venture, the robin or one of these like common, you know, the word common, how I feel about the word common when it got the birds.
Community and Birding Events
00:35:16
Speaker
It was one of those moments when tree swallow flew by and I was like, oh, snap. The tree swallows are back. That was my birdie moment of the week.
00:35:28
Speaker
So there were a few of them. That's awesome. That's awesome. You want to know what mine was, bro? Yeah, what was yours? Yeah, so I was invited to accompany a bus full of environmental journalists to a place called Hawk Mountain. So they were having their Society of Environmental Journalists Conference here in Philly. And on Thursday, I was invited to kind of volunteer and go with them up there. And I'm sitting on the bus next to this young lady.
00:35:54
Speaker
young African-American lady and we get to talk and she's a student at Wisconsin in Madison, getting a master's degree in journalism. And I was like, yo, do you know my homie Dexter? And she was like, I've been trying to get to one of his walks so often. She's like, I'm going to make it happen this year. And I was like, that is wild.
00:36:17
Speaker
Her name is Michaela, so hopefully you're able to meet her soon. It's a small world, man. It's a small, bro, I'm on a bus on the highway outside of Philly, sitting next to somebody that's from your hood. I was like, yo, this is crazy. If I would have reception on the trail, I would have taken a selfie and sent it to you. That's awesome. Yeah, that was my moment of just she immediately just a big smile on her face when I mentioned your name. And so that's the second time.
00:36:46
Speaker
I had the young lady at my doctor's office that had on your hoodie. I was like, why is Dexter eating my lunch in my own town? All these people out here know who Dexter is. Yeah, that was my moment, man. It just made me smile, just made me happy. In my head, I was like, man, I can't wait for her to go out with Dexter so she can feel some of that bird joy in the town that she's in school. I think she was from Chicago.
00:37:09
Speaker
I love it. We would love to have you. You're looking for a place. Like you said, you're looking for a bird and buddy. Your bird person, we talked about, come on out. We always got something going on. This spring, probably going to be doing a lot of pop-up events too, where it's just like, cause it, you know, we bird a lot more this time of year. So I think one thing that I'll probably, I don't know if you'll be doing, if you do this at all, but like, you know, you about to go out somewhere, just kind of jump on the socials.
00:37:37
Speaker
like, Hey, I'm gonna be here today. Anybody want to just join your boy on a drill, you know, we'll be doing a lot of those too. Just kind of like, it's kind of cool because it's like some of our events, you know, we got 15, 20, 30, 40, 50 people, but then you do like a little pop up. You might have five.
00:37:54
Speaker
You get this intimate little walk with some of your peeps, so we do a lot of that type of stuff in the spring. That was another Rita idea. Green pointer and pop-ups are Rita's ideas. She knows what she's doing. That's awesome. I'm going to have to come out there and hang with Rita. Yeah, the first one she did, we did a pop-up event where we were looking for Sora's and Virginia rails.
00:38:19
Speaker
And it was this weird just little spot off the side of the road. There's literally like a half a block with like a little bit of water and some cattails. Like it literally wasn't like hardly nothing. You wouldn't think, you wouldn't even think twice about it. Next thing you know, we start hearing both of them.
00:38:35
Speaker
in a little bitty stretch. She's like, I don't know what it is, but they come here every year and it's such this little small area, but we literally saw like 10. It was ridiculous. Yeah. That's crazy. Cause the, the cackling from the Virginia rail is such a distinct.
00:38:50
Speaker
thing. And then, you know, and you can be out in the marsh and just hear a bunch of them just like yelling at each other. I feel like they're just cursing at each other from across the weeds. And they're so much smaller than you realize. They are. They run across and you like the noise on them is so big. You think they're bigger? You think they are. They're so fat.
00:39:09
Speaker
and you really see them, but they're actually little bitty things. Yeah. So you go from that cackling of the rail to the sore with that descending whistle, right? It's like it's mocking you. Oh, man. It's good, though, because when you hear it again after not hearing it for so long during the winter or whatever, it's just a really beautiful... It's like a whole world in these marshes, man.
00:39:34
Speaker
It was wild, man. Literally. It's crazy. Then in the same area, across the street from where we were looking at the Sores and the Virginia rails, there were a pair of loggerhead strikes. It's like this power company and they had barbed wire around it and stuff like that. You could see remnants of food. It was just the most randomest place and that was a pop-up event. I'll never forget that.
00:40:00
Speaker
That's awesome. And for folks that don't know, Shrikes are known for taking their prey and impaling their prey on sharp things like branches or thorns or barbed wire fences. And they essentially kill stuff, mount it to the thing, and then they come back and eat it later. Yeah.
00:40:17
Speaker
So you can come across the spot if you're in an area that has strikes, loggerhead strikes or northern strikes. And it's just like a little killing field, this little like flying blossom wrapper. Little bitty murderers flying around. Little bitty murderers. They're going to get down on Netflix series soon. Little bitty murderers coming soon.
00:40:44
Speaker
It's so funny, because they're songbirds. I know. They're killer songbirds. This is so wild, you know? Oh, that's dope. I mean, they're gnarly, man. Season one, a little bitty murderer. Yeah.
00:41:04
Speaker
We need to talk to the sharks about that. We can't be killing everything and mounting it. Come on, you're supposed to hunt for food, right? Now you're just showing off. I know, right? Next time I turn on a murder series on Netflix, I'm going to think of that and laugh. You're going to be like, man, I knew we should have did this idea. I knew it. We should have made it, Dex. We should have made the series.
00:41:34
Speaker
It's a little murder. Maybe we will. Maybe we'll just do an episode one day and we'll just focus on the Northern strike and the Loggerhead strike and we'll just inform the people and we'll call it little bitty murders. Yeah. Love that.
00:41:48
Speaker
Oh man. See what happens, we're trying to have a serious conversation about birding ethics and this kind of stuff always happens. But hey, that's the Birdjoy podcast for you. That's good, brother. In all seriousness, though, I want to encourage anybody like share. I mean, if you have questions or concerns or like we didn't talk about something that maybe you have some questions about, like don't hesitate to reach out to us.
00:42:15
Speaker
happy to have these type of conversations with people because, I don't know, never pretend to have all the answers, but definitely willing to lend an ear and offer some feedback where I can. And I know you feel the same way. Likewise. Yeah, likewise. We're not going to cover everything, right? There's another side to ethical birding that is not for the birds necessarily. It's about property access and ways to travel to different places and stuff like that.
00:42:45
Speaker
That's more just ethics, human to human, right for different things. But I think we covered the basic stuff to keep the birds safe. But by all means, let us know on the socials or otherwise if there's anything else you suggest, because we'd be happy to share. Yes. Yes. Take care of the birds. Take care of your fellow birders. Take care of yourself out there. Ask questions. I think that's important. Don't be afraid to ask questions. Reach out to people like us that got your back.
00:43:11
Speaker
or people in your community. We stress that really hardcore. Find a community if you can to get out there of like-minded people. There's some good ways that you can get out there and learn just to be an ethical yes, but just a good birder in general. Yeah, just a good human birder.
00:43:29
Speaker
You don't take yourself too serious, but you care about the things around you. You realize you share this space with these birds and with these other birders and the community at large. That means you get it. If you got that, if you understand that, you're probably doing just fine. That's right. All right. Well, I want to thank you for joining us on the bird joy podcast. We hope you enjoyed exploring the world of ethical birding with us today.
00:43:53
Speaker
And until next time, homies, if you're interested in what's going on out in Wisconsin, what is the way to get in touch with the BIPOC birders out in Wisconsin, Doug? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I talked about potential pop-ups, but you could also check us out at BIPOCbirding.org, but also on our Facebook group. We're always posting pop-up events and creating Facebook events for what we got going on. We're also on IG and Twitter. Awesome, awesome. And until next time, homies,
00:44:23
Speaker
Shout out to the In Color Birding Club, incolorbirding.org. We are heading into the meat of spring. And so check out our website and our socials in Color Birding Club on Instagram and Facebook and see what's going down. Come find some bird joy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Please share, subscribe, and shout out the podcast to all your fellow bird nerds. Help us spread a little bird joy. It's been a good one. Peace on me. Peace. Pour one out. Let's pour one out for the little murderers.
00:45:20
Speaker
I can't deal with you bro.