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Know Your Rights with Attorneys Edward and Theresa Speights
13 Plays4 years ago
In this week's episode, I have two special guests, Attorneys Edward and Theresa Speights. We discussed civilian rights and so much more!
Recommended Resources:
American Civil Liberties Union
So You Want to Talk About Race by Ijeoma Oluo
The New Jim Crow by Michelle Alexander
Why Are All The Black Kids Sitting Together In The Cafeteria by Beverly Daniel Tatum, PhD.
If you want to contact Edward and Theresa Speights on social media you can find them at:
Edward Facebook and Instagram
Theresa Facebook and Instagram
All links are embedded and can be accessed by clicking on the title.
If you want to send me an email you can email me at [email protected]
If you want to follow me on social media here's where you can find me:
Instagram
Twitter
Facebook
Recorded, Produced and Edited by Éliane Anita
Track Produced by Devo Beats
This is a Relevant Media production and Podcast
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Empowerment Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome to the Eliana Nita podcast, the podcast created to inform, challenge and empower you. Now let's get down to business.
Understanding Citizens' Rights with Ed and Teresa
00:00:22
Speaker
Hi guys, welcome back to the Alienator podcast. I'm your host, Alien, and I am so excited to have you join me for this week's show. I sit down with two lawyers to discuss our rights as US citizens, and they talk to us about the law. They talk to us about our rights as protesters. They talk to us about what happens when we get pulled over by the police.
00:00:46
Speaker
And they just give a ton of great information and so many jewels for us to know and to learn as US citizens, especially in this time. So I hope you guys enjoy this podcast and please make sure you share with your friends and followers. All right, let's get into the show.
00:01:05
Speaker
Hi guys, welcome back to the Alienator podcast. Thank you guys for joining in this week. I am doing a podcast on knowing your rights and I brought along two friends of mine. One actually represents me as my tax attorney and she and her husband are both bar. Um, how do I say it? You guys both pass the bar.
00:01:28
Speaker
And they both have graduated from law school, so they are practicing attorneys. And their names is Ed and Teresa. Thank you so much, guys, for joining in. So I want to give you guys an opportunity to introduce yourselves, and then we're going to hop into some questions. Well, thank you for having us. My name is Ed. I'm an attorney here in Chicago. Actually, I was with the PD's office, but now I'm going back into private practice, concentrating on law school.
00:01:58
Speaker
Thank you. Thank you. Take over the city. Um, but concentrating on criminal, uh, and still going to be doing, uh, some civil rights and some real estate law. That's amazing. And I did not realize that you were going back into criminal law as well as civil civil rights law. That's amazing, especially in this time. Yeah. We were always in criminal law. Yeah, I was always in criminal. I was in a PD's office. I was just more so working.
00:02:27
Speaker
with the government. So it's just helping out underfunded people who couldn't afford private legal assistance. So you could get assigned to different cases and stuff. So it was always criminal. That's my heart. That's where I love helping out people at. Awesome. Awesome. All right, T. Introduce yourself.
00:02:45
Speaker
Hi, I'm Teresa Spates. I work at Community Tax and I am a tax attorney. So I represent people who obviously haven't filed their taxes or need to file their taxes, small businesses, large businesses up to C corporations, people who just want to start a business and they have questions about that. And also people who owe money to the Internal Revenue Service or state tax authorities.
00:03:14
Speaker
and I work with those entities and get them into either reasonable payment plans or settlements. Awesome. Well, T, I know for sure that you are a phenomenal attorney in this way because you have represented me and I swear everybody off until you found my taxes.
00:03:32
Speaker
And she used to be a prosecutor, too. So that's why she said that to us. She used to do criminal law. She used to be a prosecutor. So that's what I'm going to do. Yes, see, don't just say you only do taxes. You are a prosecutor, for sure.
00:03:48
Speaker
That's awesome. Well, I would like to personally thank you guys for coming on the show. So in this climate that our country, the USA, is currently in, and I have to just be conscientious to say the USA because I do have a worldwide listenership. So I want to make sure that I'm so sorry for not telling you guys this, but this podcast is listened to out of six of the seven continents of the world.
00:04:17
Speaker
We have to be specific when we say what's going on in the USA. So currently in the United States, we are in pretty much like a race war almost, I mean, with lack of better word usage. So it is
00:04:33
Speaker
So crazy right now and I wanted to make sure that I brought people on the show that was experts in the field so that we can understand our rights as law about Biden and citizens, protesters, people that drive cars or walk down the street.
How to Interact with Police During Traffic Stops
00:04:49
Speaker
So I wanted to ask what happens or if I get stopped by the police, what rights do I have and what is the right way to kind of engage and deal with the police?
00:05:03
Speaker
Okay, so that's a multi-layered question, but we want to at least break it down. So if you're stopped by the police, let's say if you're in your car, if you're stopped by the police in the car, you want to abide by what they're asking you. So usually they're asking for your license and your registration.
00:05:22
Speaker
Me personally, I want to make sure that I have my hands on the wheel, and I'm announcing to the officer what I'm going to do before I do it. So if I'm saying I'm going to reach in the glove compartment to get my insurance, I'm going to let the officer know. I'm reaching in the glove compartment to get my insurance. I'm reaching in my pocket to get my phone. I'm reaching in my pocket to get my wallet. So I want to be more proactive instead of reactive when I'm talking to the officer. OK.
00:05:51
Speaker
I will also add in there, if you get stopped by the police, do not make any sudden movements. Do not reach in the backseat of your car, reach in the glove compartment. Prior to the police officer walking up to the car, just try to be as still as possible, keeping your
00:06:12
Speaker
your hands where they can see them will usually at the steering wheel is really great and try to be as polite as possible. I know that emotions are hot. Um, usually when you're getting pulled over, you might be in a rush trying to get somewhere or whatever the case may be. Just try to stay calm and try to also be polite. Remember it's a lot like dealing with, you know, customer service. You don't want to be disrespectful.
00:06:40
Speaker
Um, but you do want to be, you can't ask your questions. So it's okay to say, okay, thank you. No, thank you officer. Um, why am I getting pulled over? You can ask those questions. It is your right. And the officer also asked you to get out the car. Um,
00:06:58
Speaker
You want to make sure that you are abiding by their direction. So you can ask them why you pulled me over, and they also can ask you to step out of the car. So you want to make sure that you're not delaying and doing what they asked you to do, because they can't say you were resisting what they were saying. So you want to make sure that you're getting out the vehicle. You still can ask, Officer, why did you pull me over? Officer, why are you asking me to step out of the car?
00:07:26
Speaker
You can add to that. But also, they don't have to read you your rights at this moment. So people confuse Miranda rights with, oh, once they stop me, they have to read me my Miranda rights. They don't. Okay. Miranda rights are used when they're trying to get information out of you. So they want you, it was a possibility where you can say something where you can get yourself in trouble.
00:07:51
Speaker
that's when they're going to read their Miranda rights. So you want to make sure that even if they arrest you, it doesn't matter if they arrest your Miranda rights or not at this point. So that's the common mistake a lot of people make, that they don't have to read your Miranda once they actually step out of the vehicle or if they arrest you.
00:08:12
Speaker
And I know you want to step in, but also you never want to give them permission to search your car. I was getting to that because before you get to that, I just wanted to go back and just recircle back. So the police actually, because I've heard so many times that, and I don't know if it's like, you know, obviously so much information is circling around the internet. And that's why I wanted to have you guys on because you all know the law.
00:08:38
Speaker
they can actually ask you to get out of your car. So like if I get pulled over by the police and I'm complying with everything and the officer says, OK, I want you to step out of the car, he actually had he or she actually has the right to ask me to step out of the car. That's not against my rights. Right. Right. Right. OK, so now that I'm out of the car, we don't give permission to search our search our car because they have to obtain a search warrant. Correct. Right. OK, now you guys can go into that more.
00:09:08
Speaker
Yes, they should, if they ask, can we search your car? The answer is no.
00:09:14
Speaker
Now, if you have something out in plain view, so if you have a bag of marijuana or a bag of cocaine on the passenger seat, then they have the right to grab that bag. It's in plain view. So if you have a gun laying in your back seat, then they have the right to grab that. Other than that, if it's not in plain view, they are going to need a warrant.
00:09:42
Speaker
Okay. So what about if I have a passenger in the car, what happens to that person? So let's say if for whatever reason, the police decide that they're going to arrest me, what, what happens
Legal Rights Concerning DUI and Sobriety Tests
00:09:53
Speaker
then? Like do passengers have rights or is it kind of pretty much the same thing as for the driver? The passenger can also be searched. The passenger can be searched. Um, and then it, it depends on what the charges, let's say if you're pulled over and they're suspecting you of driving while under the influence. So, you know, they can,
00:10:12
Speaker
you know, pull you over, they tested you. And again, if it's DUI, you don't have to submit to any of the, you know, roadside test or the blow test or anything like that. But let's say they arrest you and it's a passenger in your car. You know, the officer may let the passengers just drive your car. They may test the passenger first to make sure that the passenger also is in charge.
00:10:34
Speaker
Yeah. OK. So OK, that's I think that you brought up a really good point. So in the case of DUI, I don't know what they're calling. If you if you smoke in marijuana while you're driving, I don't know if that's. Yeah. Say that one more time. Driving while intoxicated. Oh, OK. So it's so it's still the same. So they consider both the same. Right. Right. DUI is driving under the influence, the influence of alcohol usually.
00:11:02
Speaker
DWI is driving while intoxicated and it could be driving while intoxicated. Usually it's marijuana or drugs. So cocaine, heroin. OK, that makes sense. So I can refuse at the moment, I can tell the officer I don't want to take a blow test or any kind of test at the actual time when they pull me over. So I do have the right to decline that, right?
00:11:32
Speaker
Right. So with lawyers, like, would you guys say like, that's the best practice not to take it or do you, or will you eventually have to take it? Especially like when you get back to the station. Me personally, I tell people don't take it. Um, you have the right to refuse what officers will try to do. They'll try to scare you and say, well, we're going to suspend your license. That's fine. That's something that the lawyer can take care of later. Um, you don't want to build a case against yourself.
00:11:59
Speaker
So if they don't have any proof besides the way you were talking or the way you were acting, it'd be hard for them to prove that you were driving under the influence of alcohol. If you take a test and you blow over the legal limit, they have you beat that you were driving under the influence. So think about this, Lay. If they pulled you over a problem because you were swerving or you were driving really, really slow,
00:12:27
Speaker
It's either really, really fast, really, really slow, or you're swerving. After that, everything else that you submit, you have given that evidence against yourself. So if you submit to the roadside test and they say, oh, well, I think that they were hobbling, or I think that they were swaying, then you've built a case against yourself. And that's what they're using in court.
00:12:55
Speaker
And then if you choose to blow or you don't choose to blow, it doesn't matter because now they have that roadside test that you agreed to do. And then after that is the blow test or the blood test if you've been smoking or doing drugs or they suspect you for doing drugs. So it's best to just leave it at the swaying of the car, the swerving of the car or the driving too fast or driving
Stop and Frisk: Legality and Rights
00:13:21
Speaker
too slow. Everything else after that they have to prove.
00:13:24
Speaker
OK, that makes sense. So in the case that you are pulled over by, let's just say, a racist cop that just wants to harass you, and you are in compliance, and they actually step out of the car, and they're, you know, like, is there any, like, I guess this was my second question as far as, like, how does stop and frisk work? But I know that, personally, I've experienced times where, because I work in predominantly white areas,
00:13:53
Speaker
I've been constantly pulled up about the police. I've had to get out and they frisk me and all of this stuff like that. So what rights do I have as far as stop and frisk? First and foremost, in most states, stop and frisk is illegal. Okay. With stop and frisk, the officer has to have like a reasonable, articulable suspicion that you are armed and dangerous. It used to just be like stop and frisk was they would look at black and brown people
00:14:21
Speaker
and either pull them over or stop them while they were walking along the sidewalk and put them up against the wall and frisk them to see if they had guns. That's why it's illegal because it was racist. Look at it this way. If you're doing something like a normal person is doing, an officer cannot just come over and frisk you.
00:14:44
Speaker
And so, um, but that's just legally, we're going to deal with real life practical situations. You being by yourself, being a person of color, you want to make sure that you survive that encounter. Absolutely. What you want to do is you want to comply. You know, you let the officer know that you're not consenting to them searching you, but you comply to that and you make sure that you get the officer's name and badge number.
00:15:08
Speaker
OK. And that was another question I was going to ask is, what kind of information should we take a mental note of, take a picture, write down, or just make sure that we have when we're getting pulled over by the police? So you said get the officer's name and badge number, correct? Yes. Most officers have cards, too. So you can ask them for their card.
00:15:31
Speaker
Okay. So what happens in the case of like, you know, like a Sandra Bland where you're, you're being, you know, harassed by the police and, or he's trying to trip you up to have a reason to pull you out of the car. Like, is it what, what should we do in that case when we know that we're encountering a racist cop? Um, like how does recording work? Like, is that legal or, you know, what is our rights as far as that? And how should we go about recording?
00:16:01
Speaker
That's a multifaceted question. Again, rest in peace, Sandra Bland. Watching the video of Sandra Bland, my heart goes out to her. But if that was my daughter, it would be some things I wouldn't want her to do that she did. OK, so again, we want to make sure. And I'm not saying it's right about what is a lot of mystery that happened in that situation. But we want to make sure that we go home.
00:16:27
Speaker
we survived that encounter. So even if we're dealing with a racist cop, we want to make sure we get home. So our interactions, our tone, the way that we're speaking to them, it doesn't guarantee that we're going to get a good response, but we want to make sure we're doing as much as possible to survive that encounter. But in that situation, you do have the right to record.
00:16:55
Speaker
You have the right to, you know, document information. So if you're getting the name, the badge number, you want to make sure that you're getting that information. But if the police is telling you, you have to get out the car, you have to get out the car. If the police is telling you that you are under arrest, you are under arrest.
Recording Interactions with Law Enforcement
00:17:14
Speaker
These are things that we can deal with later as a lawyer in court, like most interactions, most police officers, especially here in Chicago, they have body on camera.
00:17:25
Speaker
So that helps you. So you want to make sure that even you're presenting a case for court. So if an officer pulls you over, you want to make sure that you are presenting a good case. So you weren't resisting. A lot of officers will try to use a force when they're saying that the, uh, that you were resisting arrest or you weren't complying with what they were saying. If you have a body camera video that's showing you complying, not resisting that looks bad on them. And you can say it too. So verbalizing,
00:17:53
Speaker
What's happening all the time is always really good. You have the right to record any encounters you have with the police. So if anything, when the police pull you over, you can always press record on your phone or turn the video on on your phone. But don't make it threatening for them.
00:18:15
Speaker
It sounds really sad, but it's kind of like talking to a dog. You don't want to scare the dog, so don't use the incorrect tone when you're addressing them. And as much as my heart definitely goes out to Sandra Bland, her tone was wrong to go home. So you have to watch your verbiage in the way that you say it, but it's okay if they pull you over.
00:18:42
Speaker
You know, thank you officer, what's going on? Or hello officer, what's going on? Why did I get pulled over? Those things are all okay to ask. Just make sure you're not yelling at the police officer when you say it. And then if he asks you to step out the car, go ahead and step out. If he says I'm going to arrest you or I'm going to put you in handcuffs, then you want to always say, I am not resisting. I am not resisting. And that's really good if they're on a, if they have a body cam on.
00:19:11
Speaker
and they hear you saying, I am not resisting, I am not resisting. It's very hard to combat that with like, oh, you were resisting. It's like, I'm not, like I'm literally telling you, I'm not resisting and putting my hands behind my back. You can verbalize out everything that's happening. So even if the camera is in the bad light or whatever, they can still hear everything that's going on.
00:19:33
Speaker
OK, so the key is to so like another question really fast. So like if I am say if the officer officer is arresting me, do I have the right to know at that moment? Like why can I ask? Why am I being arrested? You can ask. Sometimes officers don't tell you until you're already, you know, in custody. But you can ask. There's nothing wrong with asking questions. OK, always ask. Just don't yell.
00:20:03
Speaker
So you can always say, why am I being pulled over? Why am I being arrested? I would only ask it a couple of times. If they don't give you an answer or they are yelling or cursing at you, then you can always say, I would appreciate it if you don't curse at me.
00:20:22
Speaker
but you don't have to keep asking, like just asking over and over and over again, why am I being arrested? Why am I being arrested? Why am I being arrested? Like that is not going to benefit you in court or benefit you at the moment. So just asking a couple, a couple of times, you know, why am I being arrested? Why did I get pulled over? That's enough. Okay. Has been made. So asking multiple times is not going to get you home any sooner than just asking a couple of times.
00:20:51
Speaker
OK. Well, that's all really good information. So let's switch lanes for a bit because we are experiencing a lot of protesting right now.
Protesters’ Rights: Public vs. Private Property
00:21:01
Speaker
So what are the rights of a protester?
00:21:06
Speaker
Yes. So a processor does have many rights, especially when it's public property. So you have the right to protest peacefully on public property. You have the right to free speech on public property, and you have the right to photograph on public property. And you don't need a permit as long as you are not blocking traffic. When it comes to private property, the rules are set by the owner.
00:21:36
Speaker
So if you're on private property, you do not have all of your same rights that you have on public property. So it's very critical to make sure that wherever you're protesting, it is considered public property so that you can still maintain your right. Otherwise, when you move on to private property, then your rights all shift to whatever the owner of that property wants to happen there. And that right to free speech goes both ways. So people who are doing hate speech
00:22:05
Speaker
still have the right to free speech. OK. So in the case of like, because we've all been, I know that everybody has seen videos where police have gotten very violent with protesters, or I think I've seen a video for sure where an elderly man was pushed to the ground, and he bust his head. And just it seems like, well, from the view that we're looking at, it seems like it's an extremely aggressive force from the police.
00:22:34
Speaker
At what time or at what stage of protesting do the police have the right to use stun guns, tear gas, excessive force or anything like that?
00:22:48
Speaker
We have the right to peacefully protest. So when protests are not peaceable, then police, they have the right to try to disperse it or break it up. Or let's say if we have a curfew, like many states, many cities have now, if we're protesting past that curfew, police officers can try to do what they can to break it up and get people to disperse.
00:23:19
Speaker
Okay. As soon as it turns violent, they have the right to disperse that crowd. So if there is any break ins happening even nearby, they have the right to disperse that crowd. And usually they are supposed to do it without force. It's supposed to
00:23:38
Speaker
to de-escalate the situation as much as possible. But if it's not peaceful, or if they believe that whatever's happening is inciting a riot, or they are using language to incite a riot, then they do have the right to break that up under basically any means necessary.
00:24:00
Speaker
first thing they should be doing is deescalating the situation and then after that it is up to the mayors of the city and the governors and the legislation of that city to what their next steps will be so if they allow tear gas there then they allow it there. That's a good word deescalate.
00:24:16
Speaker
Yeah, it is actually a really good work because I was interested in knowing like, or I mean, I guess it's hard for you guys to know on what end the police would de-escalate or how they would go, whether they're de-escalation measures. But it seems, I guess like from, I guess, and I'm honestly just looking at videos that I've seen, but it doesn't seem like they try to go through de-escalation measures. They just go with excessive force. And that's not,
00:24:44
Speaker
for every, because obviously I'm not at every protest. I haven't seen videos of every protest, but just the only the ones that where police have gotten violent with protesters. So I think that is that way, though.
00:25:16
Speaker
this needs to disperse, like you guys are going to need to disperse. They try that first and second. And then if no one is listening to them, then they start to do different methods on trying to get the crowd to leave. Okay. So protesters have rights and police have to make sure that they deescalate if things get crazy. That's all, that's all very good information. So if I am a protester and I get arrested, what should I do next or what happens next?
00:25:16
Speaker
say that one more time?
Arrest During Protests: Legal Process and Advice
00:25:46
Speaker
And that's a good question, but it depends on what you're being arrested for. So I've seen protesters being arrested for assault, for looting, for battery. So each or disorderly conduct, disorderly conduct is like almost a catch all.
00:26:03
Speaker
you just pretty much are acting unreasonable. So with that, you go through the court process, unfortunately. Its processors are going through by court and having to settle their case through the court system. So that's pretty much what it is. But if you get arrested, first and foremost, you should not be answering any questions. You should be asking for an attorney. That's first and foremost.
00:26:31
Speaker
The officer has the right to lie to you. They have the right to say whatever they want to you in order to get their case solved. So they're saying, we just want a few questions. You can go home. They can be lying to you. You want to make sure that you have legal representation in the room with you when you're talking to whoever you're talking to. That's good.
00:26:52
Speaker
That's really good information, because I know someone that recently got arrested, and they didn't know exactly what to do as far as them protesting. I think that the person got caught up in the, because there was so much activity going on at the time, they just got caught up. And they was trying to leave when the police were selling the leave, and they ended up getting caught up with the protesters that was doing some looting, or the people that was doing looting, not the protesters.
00:27:18
Speaker
It's good to know the rights of a protester, particularly in this area. So as far as like, let's just say I get arrested for battery for whatever reason. Is that going to show up on my record? Can I get it expunged? Like, how does that stuff work? I mean, it's going to show up on your record. It's pretty much going to be an open case until whatever, however the case is situated is going to be an open case on your record.
00:27:46
Speaker
Yeah, you just have to go through the court process if they don't dismiss it. Yeah, so that's just the whole court process you got to go through. But it will be on your record until whatever disposition of the case happens.
Filing Complaints Against Police Officers
00:28:00
Speaker
OK.
00:28:01
Speaker
So what is the process of, okay, so I've heard this before. Let me, before I ask that question, let me ask this. When George Floyd got murdered, they brought up that several of the officers had complaints against them. What exactly is a complaint against an officer? So in office, anyone can make a complaint against an officer.
00:28:26
Speaker
Um, and it can be a number of things. Usually it's for excessive force or for anything. Like if you think that an officer showed up at your house and maybe they came by too many times and you think the officer's harassing you, then you can file a complaint against the officer. So it's basically like the police of the police. Um, so that is the complaint part, but anyone can file a complaint.
00:28:52
Speaker
Okay. And so exactly what, what does that complaint do? Do it just, is it like a tap on the wrist or I mean, obviously it goes on their record because they was able to pull up complaints against the officers, but like, do they take, is it any kind of measures that they take to maybe suspend the officer or write them up or anything like that? Is it just more so just something that's documented or it's just, it depends on the city and
00:29:21
Speaker
where you're doing this or even like the county or if you're making a complaint against the state police. It really just depends on where you're going. But anyone can make a complaint. They review those complaints and then they decide what, if any, punishment they're going to get.
00:29:44
Speaker
So it could be nothing. They could get absolutely nothing. They could get suspended. They could get fired. It just really depends. But I've heard that it could stop officers from getting promotions as well. Right. They would get everything. So it's really good.
00:30:01
Speaker
If you want to file a complaint, you just have to file it. You can file it at the police station usually. Right now with a COVID-19 going on, it's really hard to do in-person appointments at the police stations now, so more than likely you can file them online, or you can call and file them. So if you want me to give you the information for Chicago, I have that, but I know you have a lot of listeners everywhere, so I would suggest
00:30:30
Speaker
looking elsewhere to get that information, looking online. OK, so now the murderers of George Floyd and Ahmaud Arbery have been arrested.
Legal Proceedings for Serious Charges
00:30:45
Speaker
And for me personally, I was watching the preliminary hearing for Ahmaud Arbery. And I was like, OK, I really don't know what's going on, but I'm watching it just to know what they're talking about in this preliminary.
00:30:59
Speaker
hearing. So could you guys explain the process for for being arrested up into the end, whatever end, you know, our end is we're hoping to see them get arrested, have served jail time. But what is the like, what is the process? And if you can explain each part of that process? Oh, well, you have you have a pretty
00:31:24
Speaker
So you have a pretty long process, so a person gets arrested. Usually within 24 hours, they are placed in front of the judge for a bond hearing to see if they're eligible to be able to get a bond. A lot of times, depending on the situation, that's where their background comes in, the seriousness of the crime, their threat to the community. Based upon that, the judge would set either a cash bond or no bond or
00:31:51
Speaker
or let them go on a recognizance bond. So that's the first step. What's a recognizant? I'm going to miss you now. Pretty much a free way out. So you're not paying to get out. You're just basically giving the judge your word that you're going to make it to court. Yeah, you promised that you're going to come back. And it's based off of your personal record. So personal recognizance bond.
00:32:20
Speaker
means that they're trusting you to come back to court because you have not demonstrated in the past that you won't show up. OK. And so for like Ahmaud Arbery at this point, because they are preliminary, or even George Floyd, they're murderers. They had a bond for them. So why didn't they consider them like a flight risk because of their background? That's information that we don't know. But it probably because.
00:32:50
Speaker
they have such a high bond because of the seriousness of the crime, how much attention it's getting. So those are all factors that will go into whatever bond that they were given. And the seriousness of your charge, your charge matters. So if you're going in for a murder case, then you're not going in a personal recognizance bond. If you're going in for like a protest, like a disorderly conduct, and this is the only thing on your record,
00:33:19
Speaker
then more than likely you'll get a personal recognizance bond. OK. The next step is a preliminary hearing. So at this preliminary hearing, evidence is put on in front of the court just to see if there's enough evidence to possibly move forward whatever charges that are given. So if a person is being charged with murder, the state is not going to bring all of the evidence. They're just going to have
00:33:48
Speaker
Some of the evidence that's needed to show that we have we can prove a case that this person is guilty of murder Okay, so It's limited information that's going to be released but it's enough information to see that we can prove this the state will try to show that we can prove that this person committed murder and So that's that's what happens at the preliminary hearing
00:34:14
Speaker
Okay. So that's why it made sense that they were, they was bringing up some of the evidence and talking about some things to prove their case on both ends. Yeah. And it's, it's, it's limited evidence, limited witnesses. So it's not like a full trial. It's just like a mini brief outline that's going to happen at the preliminary hearing. And so after that, you're going to get a lot of motions. You're going to get a lot of things because what both sides are trying to do, they're trying to,
00:34:44
Speaker
get evidence in or get evidence barred from being released at trial. So it's a process that's going to happen with both sides filing multiple motions to try to get, because both sides want to tell their side of the story at trial.
00:35:03
Speaker
And so the best, the best way to do that is to either get evidence in or get evidence barred from getting released at trial. So both sides are going to be in this like tug of war to get this information in or out. And that's what's going to happen before the trial. Okay. And then you have the actual trial. Um, that's why it takes so long. It might be a,
00:35:29
Speaker
seven, eight months. You got to get discovery. You got investigations. You got different information that probably still hasn't been found or released. You want to make sure you have all this information before your trial. For a murder trial, trial can last
00:35:45
Speaker
a couple of days or a few weeks because you have so much information and process and witnesses and testimony that you got to process from both sides. And after that, whatever the verdict is, if the defendant loses, they have a right to appeal. Okay.
00:36:05
Speaker
Yeah, that's why I'm such a long process. Wow. So it's not as easy as, at least as I thought it would be because it's like, oh, it's on camera. Duh, it's a murder. You know what I'm saying?
00:36:16
Speaker
And that's where I want to caution people not to, even though there's a lot of information out there as far as video and testimony of what we know, it's still a lot of information that we don't know. Yes, we have a video. Yes, we have our feelings and our emotions about what happened, which is natural. But we also want to know that all the evidence is not out. We don't know what's going to be let out at trial.
00:36:41
Speaker
And that's why it's very dangerous to already say this is what's supposed to happen without knowing what's going to happen, what's going to be allowed in, what's going to be stated and presented at trial. And then I think that you brought up a really good point with that because I know for sure that we've seen that with cases like Mike Brown, Trayvon Martin, and so many others where it was like a sure fire, like sure this, like we literally seen this before our eyes. Why wasn't this person?
00:37:09
Speaker
convicted of murder or whatever, and then they ended up getting off. And it was very frustrating for our community to see that because we just wasn't prepared, I guess, mentally for all of the stuff that you just mentioned. It's just stuff that comes up in the trial. Because even when I was watching a preliminary hearing, they brought up Ahmaud's mental health. And I was like, what the heck does that have to do with anything? They didn't know his mental health when they pursued him. You know what I'm saying?
00:37:35
Speaker
I guess it's understandable to to like just pace yourself for a long process and understand what they're trying to do and why they're doing it. As and Theresa can attest, as a defense attorney, like your job is to craft your story. Whatever your narrative is going to be about what happened and why it happened in order to try to get your client off, you're going to craft that narrative and you want to get it out there early.
00:38:04
Speaker
So even as a defense attorney, you're probably, if you were defending Travis and George McMichael, and you're probably, you hear all the negative stuff that's out there in the media right now, and you're just probably sitting back and building your case. Like, okay, this is their case. Cause this is the prosecution case that's being out there in the media. We haven't heard the defendant's case. And so whatever they're doing, they're probably just building their case and that's why they're getting ready for trial. Okay.
00:38:34
Speaker
That makes a lot of sense. Well, what tips would you give? I don't know which end. So George McMichael, I'm sorry, what is it? Travis McMichael and his father, right? They are the defendant or the prosecutor? They're defendants. OK, so they're the defendants. So on the other end, what would you say that they should do to prove their case? Is it too much stuff out in the media to actually make this case work?
00:39:03
Speaker
Or is it more stuff? I know that you don't know all of the details because we're only privy to what we can see. But is it good that there's so much media attention around it? Or is it a bad thing? Media attention is never a bad thing. But the jury that you get is the first question that I was going to ask is, have you heard about what's going on with this case already?
00:39:31
Speaker
And then you're supposed to pick a jury that is not biased. It's not possible, but it's the way that our system is built. Um, so you just want to make sure you're picking a sympathetic jury for your victims. And it's always good for stuff like this to be out in the news because then you know exactly the kind of questions you need to poke and prod around for when you're picking your jury. Um,
00:39:59
Speaker
And a lot of those questions are obviously going to be race-related and fear of people who don't look like you. You're going to want to try to get those questions in there. And if you find that people are afraid of folks that don't look like them or folks that are not in their neighborhood or how would you feel if somebody that you're in a very tight-knit neighborhood and someone you know or someone that you don't know is poking and prodding around in your neighborhood, how would you feel? And if they're like, well, I wouldn't
00:40:27
Speaker
I would not like that and I would be calling the police on that person. You know that's probably not a person that you want in your jury if you're the defense.
00:40:39
Speaker
or if you're the prosecutor. But if you're the defense attorney, you're probably like, oh, that's a good person because that person that they were chasing this person and they're gonna, it's all gonna be about wordier and who you're picking in your jury. And without in the media, it's never truly a bad thing. And it's something that you can honestly control. So the more people that are talking about it, the better for the victim and their family, especially when it comes to their civil suit.
00:41:08
Speaker
The jury is going to decide this case. We have so many different opinions. We have this whole pandemic and we have protests and we have all this that's going on. It's going to be 12 people and how many other alternative jurors are going to decide this case. So if we have an entire people that are upset and you got 12 people that don't
00:41:29
Speaker
that don't care, are racist, don't really care about how our feelings are. That's who's gonna decide this case.
00:41:38
Speaker
And that's a very good point because I remember even after Trayvon Martin's case had came to a head and after the decision was made that George Zimmerman was not guilty, a lot of the jurors came out and talked about why. And I think that that's something that we overlook. Honestly, I've overlooked it too because sometimes you get so swelled off of emotion based off what you saw.
00:42:06
Speaker
or what you heard and it's like oh yeah I forgot we got to deal with the jurors too so that is a huge piece of the puzzle because it honestly like if they feel like that this person looked a certain way or if their records presented them in a certain way then they're going to sway in the way that they want so yeah the jury is very important
Seeking Justice for Breonna Taylor
00:42:31
Speaker
So with the murder of Breonna Taylor and the details that we've heard throughout reports and stuff like that, what would it take to actually get those officers arrested if they could be? That's a tough case. Unfortunately, they had a warrant. So the no knock warrant basically means
00:42:56
Speaker
Obviously, they don't have to knock when they get to the house. They're saying that they did not. Some people are saying that they didn't knock. The warrant doesn't require them to knock and they had the warrant for that house. So it's a really tough case to get those officers arrested because the judge permitted them to be there.
00:43:23
Speaker
than the shooting and everything that happened after that is just a consequence of the warrant. It's gonna be tough. It's better for a civil suit. You have a better wrongful death action than you do for a criminal action. Criminal has a very high standard and there's an even higher standard for the police.
00:43:46
Speaker
But when it comes to civil, the standard's much lower. So I hope, I know that they did file a civil suit and I hope they win. Yeah.
00:43:57
Speaker
That I always kind of felt like that was a tough case, just from a standpoint of like, well, they had a warrant. And so, like you said, you know, they had a warrant and they had the right to or the judge gave them the right to be there. But I just I guess it's so very alarming for everybody to know that she was like, sleep, not resisting arrest and got killed in the midst of crossfire. So
00:44:18
Speaker
Man, I'm hoping that they can get some form of justice for her. And yeah, it's just a rough case all the way around. Do you guys? I'm sorry, go ahead. Yeah, I'm saying it's tough because let's say they arrest them. What are we going to charge them with? And then what's something that you could actually prove at trial that they did? So it's kind of tough, but I hope they get
00:44:40
Speaker
some solids in their civil case if the officer doesn't get arrested. But it's tough. You're right. And the FBI is investigating. So if they find that there was no reason for them to even be in that home, like if the probable cause for the arrest warrant or the search warrant was incorrect, then you definitely can prosecute the police officers who presented false evidence to the judge.
00:45:10
Speaker
That is the only hope that you really have. And then from there, if they presented false evidence to the judge, then you can also bring in that murder charge because the murder was a result of the warrant. Okay.
00:45:24
Speaker
If they don't find that, I don't really see how they're going to have any sort of case against them unless they're just filing a case against them to appease the crowds and
Rewriting the US Constitution: Feasibility and Benefits
00:45:36
Speaker
hope that at some point they can dismiss it on the low without anybody noticing.
00:45:40
Speaker
OK. And I read one of your Facebook statuses that I honestly 100% agree with. You said, and I'm not saying this verbatim, but you mentioned, I wish we could just rewrite the Constitution. And I 1,000% agree. I was talking with a friend, and I was telling her, I just really wish that we could just start all the way over with the Constitution. And so a lot of us,
00:46:06
Speaker
know some of the stuff that's in the Constitution, but we don't know every single thing. So is it any kind of way that we can rewrite the Constitution? Is that like any can that happen or is that like out of the question? I mean, we can always do anything we want, period. But that would just be
00:46:27
Speaker
Basically, all of the states would have to ratify getting rid of the Constitution and considering how many people are constitutionalists and other people who believe that they're constitutional law experts. I doubt that that would happen. You always have the right to amend the Constitution and you can add to it all the time. But getting rid of the actual foundations of it, probably not.
00:46:56
Speaker
It's a revolution. It's a revolution. If you it's part recognizing like, you know what, when we first started this country, everybody wasn't created equal. We didn't have everybody's rights in mind. And even though over time we've been trying to rectify it, step by step, it's still not working. So in my mind, I was thinking, let's start over. We have one of the most diverse countries in the entire world.
00:47:26
Speaker
Let's start over. Let's get a couple of things that we've been having questions on, especially the second amendment right to bear arms. Like, what do we mean with that? Let's get some things situated right now. Let's start brand new. Let's, you know, rectify our wrongs as a country towards from Native Americans to African Americans to Mexican
Sustaining Momentum for Justice and Equality
00:47:48
Speaker
Americans. Like, let's rectify our wrongs.
00:47:51
Speaker
Japanese Americans like let's rectify our wrongs with how we have treated those who came here either willingly or unwillingly and how we have benefited off those people for generations.
00:48:04
Speaker
Like, let's, let's rectify that. Let's, let's deal with that foundationally. And then we can start to heal as a country instead of just dealing with it, you know, step by step, let's have an overhaul. And that's where my heart was coming from. But again, that's, that's a complete revolution. And you have people, we can't even, you know, agree on simple things in Congress, you know, so a complete overhaul, you know, we'll see how that can happen.
00:48:31
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, of course that would be a huge challenge, obviously, but the idea of it is a really beautiful idea because the Constitution was obviously written by people that wanted to benefit from those those constitutes for the things that's in the Constitution.
00:48:50
Speaker
It's crazy. I wanted to know, what should we be doing? Because right now, I feel like everybody's emotions is incredibly high. We want justice. We want equality. We want to get rid of prejudice and things like that. So what are some of the things that you guys think that we should do as a people to really not only capture the nation's attention, but actually see change? Don't get complacent.
00:49:21
Speaker
Do not forget. So often, after these things happen, everybody is angry, everyone is incensed, and then everyone forgets about it and starts doing regular life. Don't forget, keep fighting and keep pushing continuously until real change actually happens.
00:49:44
Speaker
and as exhausting as it is mentally, physically, fight. Get out there and protest. Fight for your rights. And definitely join up with other organizations. Become more involved in your block parties, in your anything. Anything that is organizing to be better. If you're on the South Side here in Chicago, join the South Shore Chamber of Commerce. Get involved with these
00:50:14
Speaker
organizations that are looking to actually institute change in neighborhoods that are black and brown. So really push, try to get different businesses in these black and brown neighborhoods by property in black and brown neighborhoods. Like the only way we're going to institute change is if we own the land and you see like these really scary statistics that
00:50:39
Speaker
42% of the people who live in black and brown neighborhoods are the owners. So where is the rest of the money? Right. If white people are owning the land, they are dictating what happens in that area. They are not fighting for black and brown communities. So buy land, stop leaving the city. Agree. Just to add on, because she said everything I was going to say,
00:51:08
Speaker
you have to start reinvesting our dollar in our communities.
Reinvesting in Communities for Change
00:51:12
Speaker
Like we are so afraid to, you know, especially we've seen like the evaporation of the middle class, especially the black middle class, like where we, we have people that will get a little success and then they will leave the city. And so you're wondering like, okay, you have the elite rich and then you have the extreme poor and there's no middle class. We have to reinvest. We have to buy property. Let, let's,
00:51:36
Speaker
If we own our property, we own our land, and then we start having our own businesses here. Then we start having our own banks here, which gives us our own business loans in order to help build up more businesses in our communities. That dollar is turning around our community instead of us having to go all the way to the north side or all the way to the suburbs in order to get stuff that we can have in our own communities. Then we would start caring more about our communities when it comes to this crime rate. This is our community.
00:52:03
Speaker
Young black professionals, it's so critical for young black and brown professionals to move into the city and take over neighborhoods that are impoverished. Yes. Very true. That's just what it is. Like when we moved into this neighborhood, they told us that the average median income was $15,000 a year. Wow. That is crazy. Like you can't live off that.
00:52:27
Speaker
No, not at all. Not in Chicago. No, you can't. Not in Chicago. So black and brown professionals need to move back into the city and take over these neighborhoods because people are investing in the neighborhoods based on the median income of that neighborhood. So if the median income of most neighborhoods in the north side of Chicago is $100,000 to $150,000 on average,
00:52:52
Speaker
And the median income on the South side of Chicago is $15,000. Where are you going to put your fancy grocery store? Where the money is. Right. But people down here bought black and brown people purchase. So we need.
00:53:11
Speaker
nice things in our communities. We need black and brown professionals to come back to these communities, to have law offices down here, to have dentist offices, all of those wonderful, you know, different kinds of organizations. And then we'll start to see the targets. We'll start to see the Whole Foods. We'll start to see more companies starting to come here, which will attract other businesses to come here as well. Like we have to invest in ourselves.
00:53:40
Speaker
I totally agree with everything that you guys said. This is something that I've been personally saying on my social media pages and all of that. And I've been talking to my friends and telling them it's very important to reinvest into our community and pull ourselves up by the bootstraps. Because Ed, I know for sure that you lived in Chicago your whole life, right?
00:54:02
Speaker
So you've seen how the South Side, especially with areas like Bronzeville, and I grew up near Roseland, but Roseland doesn't look like the Roseland.
Importance of Voting and Understanding Local Ballots
00:54:12
Speaker
I grew up around because it was very self-sufficient. It was mostly Black owned. So we seen things where gentrification came in and they basically took over that whole entire land.
00:54:26
Speaker
Is it important to have the right officials in place? Or, you know, like, how do you understand the ballot? Because I keep hearing like, vote, vote, vote, vote, vote. But a lot of times we don't understand the ballot. So how do we find out information about judges? Like the last, when we had our primaries, it was like a slew of judges on there. So like, how do you get to know the judges that you want to vote in? Or when they ask a question about taxes and things like that, like,
00:54:54
Speaker
How do you get that information? It's online. Even if you're on your local Audiments page, it's online. Judges information, it's online. We have to be more proactive in disseminating that information. We'll disseminate some new shoes, a new song, a new dance. We'll pass that out. We have to pass out and give out information about our Audiments.
00:55:20
Speaker
because that's who's dictating how the money is being used in our community. We have to talk about our judges because that's who's dictating what laws and how many how long people are getting locked up in jail. So these are things that as a community we need to be more cognizant of like this. This is what's going on in our community. This is what we're going to talk about and this is what we're going to pass out. But the information is there. I just think we have to be more vigilant in passing it out to people because I guess
00:55:50
Speaker
We're not looking for it and people are not, our attention span is so low when we're talking about primaries and judges, where people would just, they just turn off to it. And there is the black legal group, right? Yeah, and they pull out that information every year about the judges. So we also seem to spread it around social media better. Yeah, it's out there. It's out there as we have to spread it around social media.
00:56:19
Speaker
I agree because a lot of people don't even know who their alderman is and they don't even understand what their alderman represents and what's the purpose of an alderman or you know because we're so fixated on who's at the white house that we don't understand like the house of representatives and all of that stuff like that our senate and all of that so
00:56:39
Speaker
I think that to have a basic understanding, and most adults, they might have learned it in eighth grade. Honestly, I haven't looked at things in the Constitution since I was in college when I took a couple of law courses just for electives. So even for me, it's refreshing to understand, OK, this is how this works. And according to the area that you live in, this is what happens, and so forth and so on.
00:57:08
Speaker
And I would say Alderman's are a Chicago phenomena because I'm not from Chicago. So when I got here, I was like, what is an Alderman and what do they do? And why do they have so much power? And when you find out what the Alderman does, which is basically they control the money that is coming into that into your neighborhood.
00:57:29
Speaker
They control when your streets get cleaned. They control when your streets, the potholes get filled. They control the businesses that come into your neighborhood. You start to realize that the alderman has a lot, a lot, a lot of power. And you have a lot of power over the alderman. Because the least amount of people that are looking at the alderman, the more they're getting away with stuff. The more people who are like, how come you're not doing your job?
00:58:07
Speaker
If your streets aren't clean, like one, we, at one time, somebody had through an entire rotisserie chicken outside on a main public road and it hadn't been cleaned up for days. I contacted our aldermen and I was like, this needs to be cleaned up immediately. The street needs to be cleaned up more often. I don't know what you're doing. I own my, and you have to say, I own my home at, here's my address, fix this now.
00:58:22
Speaker
then the more that they risk their job, because they're just regular people.
00:58:34
Speaker
Or there will be problems when you run for reelection and suddenly we're getting our streets cleaned on a regular basis. Okay. You have to push the alderman because if you don't say anything, they just assume that you're not listening and you don't care and they don't care and they're pocketing all this money.
00:58:52
Speaker
And this is what I realized. I think that even with all of the protesting and emailing and petition signing that's been going on, people have way more power than what they think.
Conclusion: Power of Knowledge and Community Action
00:59:06
Speaker
And if we really put the heat to a lot of these elected officials,
00:59:11
Speaker
They'll make changes. And it's like, I'm hope what I hope is that in all of this that we're doing that we don't forget as a, as a people, we have power. And, and as much as we can we need to educate ourselves on the power that we have and really understand our rights and that's why
00:59:32
Speaker
I am so glad that you guys gave me some time and came on this podcast to talk about your rights because so many of us, including myself, don't know what kind of rights that we have. And I am so, so grateful for you guys coming on. Thank you so much.
00:59:47
Speaker
Thank you for having us. Thank you. Thank you. I have one final question before you guys go. What resources do you recommend for our audience? Now, my audience is a combination of business owners and they are thinkers and they love to read. So what resources do you guys have?
Recommended Resources for Understanding Rights
01:00:05
Speaker
My favorite resource is the ACLU website. I think that they are phenomenal. They put out great information, especially about your rights, your rights protesters, your rights for absolutely anything, any kind of almost any kind of ism that there is like they have something for it. And ACLU, it has Illinois chapter, that one is really good. They have chapters all around the United States, and then they have the actual big ACLU as well.
01:00:34
Speaker
Each state puts out their own special information. It is really a great website to go if you're trying to figure out where to go and who to donate to. They actually do a lot of great legal defense, and I think that the ACLU is absolutely fantastic. I agree, because I actually went to their website recently, and I was like, oh my gosh, this is phenomenal. I like ABA journals, American Bar Association journals.
01:01:04
Speaker
give out so much information on new laws, possible new laws, just things that people are thinking about and things that can be improved upon, as well as great resources, places to help volunteer, donate, and what's going on in your local area. So I do like ABA Journal. They have different magazines and things like that. So that's helpful. If you just want to know about
01:01:30
Speaker
Black people in different plights of Black people and what's going on even in America. I like The New Jim Crow. That's a good book. It talks about Yeah, and it just talks about for me then how the new slavery is the prison system
01:01:45
Speaker
And I think that's very important. We've seen so much privatization of the prison system and how it's predominantly made up of minorities. So you're getting a lot of free labor from minorities, just like how this country was started before.
01:02:04
Speaker
There's a couple other things that we have too. If you love movies and even if you love books, Just Mercy is a great book and also a great movie that's available now. It is. And people watch it for free, which is great. So you should watch it. It's really good. So you want to talk about Race by Ijeoma Olu, I think it is. It's I-J-E-O-M-A and her last name is O-L-U-O.
01:02:32
Speaker
fantastic book and then obviously why are all the black kids sitting together in the cafeteria and other conversations by Beverly Tatum. Absolutely fantastic. So if you're trying to just get some perspective, there's some really great places to go and then there's tons of people on YouTube that are talking about race, gender inequality, different things that are just going on in America and
01:02:59
Speaker
There's a ton of fantastic material out there. Just make sure you're researching the author. Peer reviewed is obviously better. But just make sure that you are getting good information. Those are some great starting points.
01:03:13
Speaker
Yeah, those are all very good recommendations. Some of those recommendations I actually knew about, so I'm excited about that. So again, thank you guys so much. And every resource that they mentioned in the podcast, I will link in the show description so that you can access it for yourselves. So thank you, Anna and Teresa, for joining in. And thank you guys for listening to this podcast. I appreciate your time, and hopefully you guys learned something.
01:03:39
Speaker
And I will link Ed and Teresa's social media pages if they want me to in the show description so that you guys can follow them. And if you're interested or need a criminal defense attorney or a tax attorney, only after Teresa files my taxes.
01:03:59
Speaker
Thank you so much for having us. Thank you. Absolutely. The tax deadline moved to July. Absolutely. Thank you guys. And as always, guys, stay blessed and be relevant.