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Ep: 114 - Tarot as a tool for personal and business growth - Natalie Jennings
104 Plays1 year ago
Happy Woo Wednesdays.
I took 2 weeks off and I'm feeling fresh. Hope you had a lovely Thanksgiving.
Today I have Natalie Jennings in the Get A HECK YES house. She's one of the coolest people I've ever met. After the conversation she gave me a taro reading and I was in tears, it was so amazing.Today we have a new and interesting topic, keep reading.
Natalie is a lifestyle photographer, podcaster, and intuitive coach based in Minneapolis, MN. She uses tools like tarot in her coaching to help clients cultivate a better relationship to their intuition, and ultimately make better decisions.
Hot Topic
Tarot as a tool for personal and business growth.
My aim is to destigmatize tarot's bad reputation by using a non-predictive approach that empowers the seeker. Tarot represents the spectrum of the human experience and can act a mirror when we're going through something challenging or need additional insight.
https://jennings.photo https://photobizhelp.com
Freebie
If folks are interested in booking a short business tarot reading over zoom they can here: https://calendly.com/thisisjenningsphoto/1-1-tarot
This includes about 45 minutes on zoom plus an email follow up with a photo of the cards and summary.
Connect with Carissa Woo
https://heckyesmedia.co/book
https://www.instagram.com/carissawoo
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction of Guests and Podcasts
00:00:00
Speaker
Happy move, Wednesdays! Today I have a special guest. Her name is Natalie Jennings. She's an OG photographer like me, original gangster. We've been doing this for forever, so we have a lot in common. We're also coaches, and I was on her podcast called PhotoBiz Help.
00:00:18
Speaker
And yeah, we just kind of shoot the shit. I'm always buzzing when I talk to her. She's so cool.
Integration of Tarot in Life and Coaching
00:00:23
Speaker
She's going to tell us about how she incorporates tarot readings into her life and to help her students. I just learned so much from her today. So I hope you guys enjoy.
00:00:38
Speaker
Welcome to Get a Heck Yes with Carissa Wu. I'm your host, Carissa, and I've been a Los Angeles wedding photographer for over a decade. I've traveled the world, built my team, and seen it all. I now coach wedding photographers hit 10K a month and build a thriving business. In this podcast, we are going to deep dive into how top wedding creatives get that heck yes from their dream clients. We are not holding back on the struggles of the business and how to push through the noise. Some healthy hustle, mindset shifts, up-leveling your money story,
00:01:06
Speaker
time-packed because I'm a mom of two, a little bit of woo-woo, and most importantly, self-love and confidence are just a few of the many things we will talk about. I want to give you a genuine thank you for following along my journey.
Natalie's Background and Journey to Tarot
00:01:19
Speaker
I hope to inspire you every Woo Wednesday so that you say heck yes to listening to this podcast. See you guys soon!
00:01:29
Speaker
Hey, everyone. Welcome back to Get a Heck Yes. Happy Woo Wednesdays. I have Natalie Jennings in the Get a Heck Yes house. She is from PhotoBiz Help. She has a podcast and she just interviewed me. She was a great host. I hope to do the same to you. And she's also a photographer at Jennings photo and she does amazing work. So welcome, Natalie. Thank you for having me. It's great to chat with you again. I know. We just chatted like two weeks ago and I
00:01:58
Speaker
I'm so excited to chat about like the most fun topic. If you guys want to know, we're going to be talking about tarot reading. So we're not talking about budgeting or sales calls or client communication, like so over that, like we're going to talk about the new fun. So this is like a breath of fresh air for me. Yeah, it is for me too.
00:02:20
Speaker
So tell me about yourself, Natalie, where are you from, a little bit about you growing up and just like you're a little bit about your journey of where it has taken you today. Yeah, totally. I grew up in Minnesota and I live there now, but I've lived all over in between now and then.
00:02:38
Speaker
I've, I've just always really liked visual art. I mean, when I was a kid, I was always drawing, always, I think when I was a kid, I went through, well, I know this, but I don't know how long it lasted, but I went through quite a long phase that I wanted to be like a Disney cartoonist. She's like a weird thing, but I've always liked,
00:02:55
Speaker
drawing and art and like visual stuff. So natural thing that I think I was drawn to photography at some point. I started Jennings photo in 2009, 2010. So we talked about this when you were on my show, but like, yeah, I can kind of bet right before everything exploded. So, so we have that in common, but yeah. Or the OGs or the OGs.
00:03:20
Speaker
I've been doing full-time photography ever since then. And I started PhotobizHelp, which is a podcast to help photographers grow their businesses. And then part of the visual art interest for me kind of bled into my tarot interest, which I got into it when I was in high school. And then, you know, there weren't a lot of resources back then and stuff. And I've always just been drawn to
00:03:45
Speaker
spirituality and occult stuff, but just as a hobby, I'm not super deep into it.
Tarot as a Coaching Tool
00:03:50
Speaker
I like everything from comedy to, I used to be a jazz trumpet player. Like, I mean, I go all different directions if you get me in the right conversation. But yeah, I found that tarot as a tool could bring people really deep into the coaching space. So like when I'm working one-on-one with people in photo business help stuff, I kind of just took a leap and decided to integrate that.
00:04:14
Speaker
Yeah. So that's kind of a short version. It's so unique. Two stories. Have you heard of Keith Herring? Keith Herring. God, why does that sound so familiar? If you Google him, you'll know, but he's the artist, but I went to his exhibition at the Broad this weekend. Oh, right on. Yeah. He's like a famous illustration. He did like stuff on the walls and those men.
00:04:37
Speaker
He was just like really good at like drawing. Oh, I know exactly. Yes, yes, yes. Yeah. So he says he, his dad got him in because his dad was a Disney cartoonist. So he talked about a draw. So I was like, Oh, that's so funny. That's so cool. And then one more story. This is not my interview, but it was interesting because
00:04:59
Speaker
You know, I never, this is the first time talking about tarot, but I saw today, you know, I give you the chance to pick your spot, but it's you and another girl and you're about tarot and she's about microdosing. So it's like, that's so weird. I'm like the same thing.
00:05:13
Speaker
It's going to be a fun day for you. Yeah. And also it's mental health awareness month. Oh, right on. Oh, it's aware. Yeah. Okay. Well, this is, you know, divine timing then. Okay. So yeah, this is amazing. Okay.
Transition from Photography to Coaching
00:05:27
Speaker
So, um, visual design, photography, um, coaching, um, you got in the same time as me when, you know, things are pretty cushy. We, you know,
00:05:38
Speaker
I know. There wasn't a ton of photographers out there but just walk me through like getting into like the coaching space like um in your journey because we're we're kind of on a similar journey. Yeah well I think what happened was is uh I started to get a lot of emails a few years into my photo business just like how do you do this like what what are you using what is the you know I mean you you get it like you get all those questions like what kind of camera do you shoot on and
00:06:04
Speaker
So I realized that I should probably, you know, put some structure around it and try and help people in a group. And I reached out to the, what was it? It was the Minneapolis Photo Center at the time. And the owners, they have since sold it, but the original owners were the sweetest couple and they were just super accommodating and really inviting. And they said, why don't you come in, you know, every couple of weeks and do a workshop. We'll advertise it for you and we'll pay you to do it.
00:06:31
Speaker
you know, come on in. So that's kind of how I got my feet wet. Like it wasn't really necessarily like the online Zoom coaching that we think of now, but it was having workshops pretty regularly for from like 2013 to 2015. And I really built a good portion of the audience that was local here. And I guess I should say that I was a high school English teacher before I was a photographer. So that's the job. Yeah. So that's the job I left.
00:06:59
Speaker
I did my master's work in education so it was really natural to just be like in a room teaching people stuff. Supernatural. That was the biggest hump hurdle that I had to get through so you're so lucky to have that background. It was helpful. It's always been a tool for sure in the coaching space because it's super similar. Different audience but
00:07:21
Speaker
So after I did that for a little while, I just started exploring kind of like, Oh, maybe I could turn this into something like online. And yeah, I don't think I really did anything major with it until probably right before COVID. But I just I started doing one on one sessions. Then I started the podcast. So the podcast is about four years old photo business help. And that's when that's like, really unique.
00:07:51
Speaker
Like people didn't have podcasts four years ago. I know it really, it really start, it was a great time to start it. We're like almost 400 episodes in and you know, it's obviously designed to help people grow with their photo business. So there's definitely this intuitive guidance kind of piece to it. And, um, yeah, that's kind of where everything branched off. So now I have, um, like a coaching program that I'm just, I open up a few times a year called the greenhouse and that's,
00:08:16
Speaker
That's kind of an amalgamation of all the stuff that I was teaching back in the day and in person and some of those workshops.
Exploring Tarot's Nature and History
00:08:23
Speaker
Oh, what does the greenhouse mean? And like, what do you teach? What's your secret?
00:08:27
Speaker
Yeah. So I mean, the idea of growing with your photo business. So it's just kind of plant themed. I'm a plant nut. I'm like the crazy plant lady. I have a, you know, so I just was like, Oh, that'd be kind of a fun container, like a name for a place to grow. Um, and I think we just combine, we combine sort of all the businessy things, you know, how to start an email list and like just the things that you need to a working business with a lot of like the mindset stuff and the, you know, just like digging into like blocks and
00:08:59
Speaker
you know, just stuff that keeps us from really succeeding. You know, I see a lot of guilt around pricing stuff like, I don't want to, you know, price too high or just even showing up in front of people making the right decisions intuitively when you know you should say yes or you know you should say no, but you do the opposite, like all those things. And then I kind of find like,
00:09:21
Speaker
Well, I like to read tarot and this seems like it would be a really helpful tool within the coaching to sort of get people I Guess the best way to describe it is it gets people deep really fast Wow, you know because you can't really ignore what's there and you just have a self-reflective tool It's not a predictive tool. So anything that you think about it when you think tarot I think there are a lot of
00:09:46
Speaker
Hollywood depictions and a lot of things that we just see kind of like old school. It's very similar to like when you think of old school photography. We talked about this. Like when you think of like the old guard that like refused to change but when all the new stuff was coming out like just refused to adopt social media and try even digital photography like was really stuck in like I'm in a film studio you know that kind of thing.
00:10:12
Speaker
I see that a lot with like the tarot stuff. It's like this kind of almost like a creepy, weird depiction of it that is not at all, at all. I'm not even close to that neighborhood when it comes to how I use it. So I'm really trying to like let people know that this is just a tool to help you self-reflect. It's like a mirror. So that's. Yeah. Let's talk about like a little bit more of how you got into it. You know, how old were you? What was like your story and how did you develop your skills and why is it like so near and dear to your heart?
00:10:43
Speaker
It's interesting. I ask myself that a lot. I'm like, why do I like this? You know, why do we like the stuff that we like? I don't know. I got like I said, I got a tarot deck in high school. I don't know. I don't remember the context around it. I just know that I and I still use the same. I like I use that deck. I've had it for a long, long time. But I think.
00:11:03
Speaker
I think for me, there's always been a draw to the unknown. And there's definitely a lot of history and mystery around a lot of things that we, you know, like, like archetypal figures like the Empress or like, like, even myths or legends or all that kind of stuff has just really been interesting to me. And I think it's kind of baked into the tarot in a lot of ways. But again, back to that visual art thing, like now there's,
00:11:29
Speaker
a bajillion different decks that you can choose from and so many of them are just so beautiful and I think aesthetically it's just kind of a fun you know if you were to look at different tools it's a fun tool just for someone who likes visual art to use yeah like my my pull to it was really
00:11:47
Speaker
rooted in my interest in visual art, but also just my interest in the mystery that seems to surround a lot of these things. And I do personally believe that there's a lot that we don't understand about the nature of the universe and where we live. I think it's just amazing to just kind of be open-minded about it.
00:12:04
Speaker
the stuff that I learn when I read about some of these archetypal figures. It's just fun. It's just interesting. I got, obviously, like everyone else, I had a lot of time on my hands during COVID. Yeah. This is actually all new to me.
00:12:23
Speaker
Okay, funny story first, but I was just so depleted after 2021, like shooting so many weddings and, you know, having little two babies. And, um, I was just, I think I shot like this crazy wedding, like bazillion hours and they just like walked off and I instantly called my friend that does tarot reading. And they just like, tell me what to do.
00:12:45
Speaker
should I like give it up? And she's just saw me like, like that she flipped over a tarot card like me like looking out like a depleted lake. Yeah, yeah. It was like, wow, that's me like I'm completely depleted. So I don't know too much about it. But tell me like, these, you know, historic goal images, like
00:13:10
Speaker
Do you know who invented it or where it came from? I don't know anything. It has a long, long history. The most we know or the most intact deck came from Italy in the 1400s, 1300s maybe. I don't have all the dates right, but there's a long history of it being practiced in a few different places. France has Atero de Marseille, which is a separate deck. The one that I have is the Rider Waitsmith.
00:13:34
Speaker
system so there's a couple different there's like a maybe three or four different like main systems that kind of cropped up um and this one is the one where it's like you have like the four suits like the queen i mean the queen the swords the the wands the cups and the pentacles and then you have 22 major arcana which are which are like the empress and the magician and death and all those different archetypes and then the 56 cards make up the suits so that's kind of like
00:14:00
Speaker
And the idea is, at least the way I approach it, is that the cards represent kind of the spectrum of the human experience. That like as humans we kind of walk through the world experiencing all sorts of different stuff and the cards are kind of a way
Personal Experiences with Tarot
00:14:14
Speaker
to represent the different like energies and things that kind of flow through our lives in a certain way. But one of the things that I find really fascinating, so my approach is really
00:14:26
Speaker
I like to explain it like flipping a coin. So like, let's say we're gonna flip a coin. You're like, say you think of something that you were, you're trying to decide between, like maybe moving to New York or LA or something like that. And you say, okay, LA's heads and you flip the coin in its tails. There's some part of your body, no matter who it is, that like for a split second, either goes like, yes, or like, oh, you know, like,
00:14:54
Speaker
our bodies react all the time to things in these little micro sort of reactions like that's really like kind of the root of your intuition or your your gut feeling right like it's in that split second before your brain has a chance to be like analyzing it and like yeah yeah figure it out so that's the way i approached the cards like if if a card is flipped over and you're like
00:15:14
Speaker
Oh, that's me. I'm totally depleted. You're just reflecting that back to yourself. It's a confirmation and your body's going like, yeah. And so when I do a reading with someone, it's non-predictive. So I'm not saying this is what's going to happen to you. It's really about empowerment. It's about giving people a chance to look at a problem or something in their life.
00:15:40
Speaker
with kind of more of a yeah like a reflective approach like here's the cards that came out this could mean this or you should maybe be aware of this for example it might be something like you know be mindful of overthinking because this card represents like a lot of overthinking people will on their own go like yeah i do that all the time you know and so i can't control which cards come out the magical part of it and again you could believe that it's like
00:16:10
Speaker
Ink on paper, totally random.
00:16:13
Speaker
nothing magical, or you could be on the other side of it where you think that this is like divinely inspired, the cards, like I chose the card because some divine intervention like told, you know, whatever. I always say like, it doesn't matter. You don't have to, my favorite thing is like, you don't have to believe anything for this to work. You can just come totally skeptical and still get something out of it. And it really, it really helps you kind of crack open your own egg where you're like, okay, yeah, that's true about myself. You know, you're just reflecting
00:16:42
Speaker
Yeah. Was it scary to like implement this in your business? Yes. Tell me about like the fears of that, like how you push through. Yeah. I think anytime we step out and do something a little weird or something.
00:16:58
Speaker
In my case, it was like, I know this works. It's really powerful. It's helped people. It's helped me. It's really fun. It's not as creepy as Hollywood makes it out to be. And so I feel like I'm really trying my best to destigmatize all the stuff that we have in our heads about it. And that was the scariest part. That was the part where it's like, oh my gosh, people are going to think I'm the crazy lady with like the weird
00:17:22
Speaker
robe in the corner with the candle or something you know like it's not it can be that and props to like people in super occult circles like do your thing but like i'm trying to open the door to folks that might be otherwise not very spiritual or kind of skeptical or just kind of like you know just to to show people that like it can be a really useful tool one of many useful tools that we can
00:17:49
Speaker
have in our lives. It's not like it's the one thing, but it's super useful. If I'm sitting down with someone one on one trying to coach them and they might have a problem with pricing in their business, for example,
00:18:02
Speaker
I'll do a reading with them and we'll get to the core of like some major things that are bothering them, like right away, you know, if they will reflect and they'll go like, Yeah, you know what, actually, yeah, kind of bummed about this and you know it just, it kind of it's like the cards give people permission to
00:18:20
Speaker
to express themselves. So they're really powerful. It was easy to do it because I was like, I want to do this. I love this. But it was also scary because I was like, people are going to think I'm a weirdo. No, the same, the same girl that I called, she went to one of our barbecues and she was doing readings and she did a reading. It was
00:18:42
Speaker
I think it was my nephew's party. So it was more like my sister-in-law and brother-in-law's friends. So I didn't know people like on a deep level, but I got to know them because I was kind of listening and they're literally opening up about like their problems, what they want for their future, what they're struggling with. And then my auntie, I'm very close with her. She's around like every weekend. She was talking about stuff that I was like, what? Like you have problems?
00:19:12
Speaker
like I didn't know there was like anything going on there. And she was saying that has she wants to like up level like up level to what like, like these are like words I never liked her like come out of her mouth.
Tips for Beginners in Tarot
00:19:24
Speaker
Yeah, sure. It was like it was interesting how just people like let their guard down just through these tarot cards. So that's why I'm so interested.
00:19:30
Speaker
One question for you, because I'm curious. I know you've been into it for a while, like you've probably read so many books and like you're you're just invested in it. Like say for me, would would I just like go online and try to like buy my own tarot cards and just start learning? Like how would I get into that?
00:19:50
Speaker
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00:20:07
Speaker
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00:20:30
Speaker
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Passion and SEO Strategies for Photographers
00:20:42
Speaker
Krista Wu is a LA-based wedding photographer who's actually turning business coach. She helped me grow and change, and I'm so proud to call you coach.
00:20:53
Speaker
tell us how you're feeling. Like, I want to just know a little bit more about your thoughts. Yeah, it's beautiful. And you're, you're awesome. It's beautiful. I'm speechless. I just like the fact that it feels like myself. I can I feel myself when I see this. Oh, man. Well, you got me pumped and excited for this. Carissa, thank you.
00:21:13
Speaker
Yeah. If you want to, I mean, anyone can learn it. It's definitely something you have to practice. It's like anything. It really is like an instrument, right? Like there's a lot of, there's 78 cards, at least in this system, the Rider-Waite-Smith system. So there, so let me back up a little bit, cause there, I want to just explain the difference between like Oracle decks and tarot decks. Okay. Sure. There's Oracle decks like everywhere. You see them in lots of gift shops and lots of places where it might be like, it can be about anything. It can be about like,
00:21:40
Speaker
the cat oracle or like the space or you know it can be about anything i have animal oracles and i have all sorts of stuff so that's that's oracle cards oracle cards can be any amount of cards so it can be 20 cards or 75 cards or whatever and it can be about anything and those are the ones where you like you would pick one and it would be like
00:22:01
Speaker
Oh, like let's say it's an animal oracle and it's like you pull like a deer and it just has some message for you. And those are great tools to start out with, I think, because it's just one card a day. It's like a way for you to build that muscle of like reflecting. So if you pull one card and you're like, huh,
00:22:19
Speaker
what is the message here for me? Or like, why am I reacting to that? Or why am I super vibing with it? Or why do I not like it? Or like, it's really, it's a good exercise to just sort of like, kind of sit with one card, but like a tarot deck, you know, 78 cards in the rider weight system, which I think is arguably one of the most popular ones. It's the one you see a lot. So when people make decks, and I'm designing a deck myself, it's like you're copying the, the actual like suits and the,
00:22:45
Speaker
and the archetypes, you know, like the empress and the hierophant and all those ones that I already talked about, um, the magician and so forth. So that system is, you could still just pull a tarot card a day and, or, or pull a couple or learn a basic spread. Like it's definitely going to take like, you're going to have to look stuff up when you're first doing it. Some teachers will say, don't look anything up. Just see how you feel. I kind of like to know like the
00:23:10
Speaker
the root of where the card comes from, like the energetic sort of like some of the maybe words associated with the card. That's a really easy way to kind of learn is just pick a couple words and go like the magician. Oh, like manifestation, you know, creativity, that kind of thing. Like then you get these words kind of associated with it. But I mean, yeah, you can learn online. There's loads of resources. I think there's loads of people on Instagram where you could just find like a spread to practice.
00:23:37
Speaker
Yeah, I love that. There's a lot of ways to do it, but I would say starting with an Oracle is like a fun, easy, low pressure. Like you're not trying to learn anything because there's an Oracle book and you kind of look up the card and just kind of sit with it.
00:23:51
Speaker
That's so cool. Okay, so me and you have been in the business for a long time and we talked to, you know, a lot of photographers and you mentioned a lot about mindset. And if you don't mind about pricing or anything, but like, what's the biggest struggle these days for photographers just, I don't know, becoming successful. I know it's a kind of a broad question.
00:24:11
Speaker
It is a, yeah, I mean, I don't know if I can pinpoint like the biggest thing, but you, you mentioned pricing. That's a, that's a, that's a top contender and like people aren't charging enough. You know, they're not, they're not understanding what a profitable business, profitable business is, you know, like how to run your numbers, how to understand if you're, if you're putting too much time into something. A lot of times when people run their numbers, they're like,
00:24:37
Speaker
Oh, I'm making like five cents an hour. I mean, like, I mean, maybe not five cents, but ten dollars or something. And you're like, oh, so that one, I think, is just depending on how you define success. Some people want tons of followers. I don't think that's necessary. But
00:24:55
Speaker
Gosh, I think mindset wise, people get like really mixed up in kind of their why. I think sometimes people, I think the people that go into this doing photography because they really love just making images and they get lit up by like
00:25:12
Speaker
giving beautiful images to a client and they can't wait to like see what they come up with at the next shoot and you know they're not stressed out about like new locations because they know that they're like something like it's going to be creatively challenging and all that kind of stuff like those photographers I think do really well I think it's the ones that are like trying to fit into some kind of box and trying to
00:25:34
Speaker
Audrey and I talked about this a lot on my podcast. She sometimes co-hosts with me and we talk a lot about like, we both encounter a lot of folks that are starting out that seem to want like an answer. Like, just tell me what to do and I'll do it. And in a creative
00:25:52
Speaker
I don't think there is an answer. I don't think there is like, this is how you do it. You know, like if you, if you learn this one thing from one coach, but you don't really like it, then tweak it and make it your own. Then try something new. But I think, I think the folks that have the hardest time, like feel like they're, they're like, they're really rigid about what they're supposed to do. And there's like quotes there, you know, and they don't just follow their heart. And again, you got to have the business side of it too, but like,
00:26:18
Speaker
really like, what do you like to do? I really believe the more we do what we love, the more doors open up for us. And I think a lot of people are just like, oh, that looks like something I could make some extra money doing. And it's not really very aligned for them. Yeah. No, thank you for sharing. I think that opens the question of just like, what is your passion? I was listening to something about Jewel.
00:26:46
Speaker
like the e-cigarette yesterday and the people, the two guys that invented it, they went to Stanford and they said the Steve Jobs commencement speech really stood out to them. Like, you know, follow like your heart, you know, stay hungry, stay foolish. And that commencement speech really changed my life. So I didn't make like a bazillion dollar company, but it was like literally like
00:27:09
Speaker
your job is going to take up a lot of your time. So what do you enjoy doing the most? So like spending the time like finding new locations, like you said, and I'll be like, Hey, what's the answer to the question? What preset should I use? Like, tell me the answer. What lens? Yeah, maybe, maybe someone says they love the 35. But then you've realized, you know, you like the 50. So it's in photography, there is no like, one answer.
00:27:36
Speaker
There's no one answer. There's no one answer with pricing. There's no one answer with any of it. It has to be, you know, like what I share with people is sort of like, okay, here's what's worked for me and this is what I do. And so this can be a guideline for you, but like, you know, you got to figure it out yourself, you know? Yes. And I know we're talking so like woo woo and like,
00:27:56
Speaker
manifestation. But I know you're very smart and with marketing tools. And you mentioned like newsletters and but what would you say your biggest tech marketing tip would be?
00:28:10
Speaker
or any new photographer is getting a marketing tip. Oh, I got one. This is a really basic one, but link tree is lovely, but drive people to your actual website. Oh, you want to boost that SEO and like, like a prep guides are lovely. Like it's really fun to make a beautiful PDF, but like make it a private page on your website, like drive people to your
Podcasting Challenges and Authentic Sales
00:28:34
Speaker
website. That's going to boost so much more traffic.
00:28:37
Speaker
Like that's a tiny little tech thing. Yeah, no, I never heard that one. Yeah, imagine if like if you go to my Instagram and you click on like where the link tree would be, it instead goes right to my website because it's a menu I made on my website. So like automatically you're getting one hit. And then if no one clicks anything, it's still one hit to your website. And then if they click something else, it's like.
00:28:56
Speaker
it just compounds. And now you have people on your site, which is exactly where you want them to be. You want them to be interacting in your little ecosystem of stuff rather than having it depend on. And I'm not knocking Linktree because I think it's actually really great for folks that either don't have a website or just it's very easy to change the links out. It's harder to go into the back end of your website and change links out.
00:29:18
Speaker
man it you know if you just change those two little things like your pdf prep guide and your instead send them a link that's like the prep guide on on a private page yeah getting all that seo and that that makes a huge difference dude i time my job i had no idea yeah it's interesting because i've been into like a lot of influencers um you know instagrams and i click on the link tree and there's so many things
00:29:48
Speaker
It's like 10 things and it makes you not want to click on anything. If there's too many, I don't, I hopefully don't have too, too many on mine, but I think, you know, keeping it under 10 is probably a good year, even under eight, maybe. Yeah. Okay. This question is for me.
00:30:03
Speaker
because you have some 400 episodes and I have 110 and I'm just kind of like at that phase where it's like, you know, do I push through to 200? What kept you motivated throughout all these years to keep pushing through? And do you have any advice for me to just stay strong in the game? I just, I love, I want to talk about this with you all day.
00:30:26
Speaker
I wanna be super honest and super clear. The journey of the last four and a half years to 400 episodes, we do an episode a week, but we started out doing two a week, which was bananas, has been consistently up and down. It's been like, I hate this, I love this. I hate this, I love this. And I think in the moments where I'm like, ugh, I just, what am I doing? In those moments, it comes back to everything I just talked about when you asked me that mindset question. It's like, why am I doing this? Why am I doing this?
00:30:55
Speaker
And when I kind of reframe what I'm doing and each iteration, it's like I had to allow it to evolve. So once I started talking more about tarot stuff and less about just like, here's how to start an email list and here's how to replace your link tree menu and like all those things, like I think they're useful, but like I was only doing like kind of like the same thing over and over. And when I started bringing in more conversation and more stuff I liked it, like really
00:31:24
Speaker
energized the whole process for me. And I think it helped probably helped me to connect with my audience a little bit more. But
00:31:32
Speaker
I mean, you've made it super far and congratulations because most people just crap out at like episode five. I mean, it's an actual term called pod fading. That's like, I don't know the stats. My partner does. He has a, he does podcast production and he was telling me that there's like, I mean, there's many, many thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of people that just have started and then stopped. So just congratulations, you know, to get that far. But I think.
00:31:59
Speaker
I think for me, I just have to continually reframe why I'm doing it and let it evolve. I can stop talking about email lists if I want to. I don't have to.
00:32:16
Speaker
following that, you know, checking in with yourself. Yeah. No, I think just bringing you on and talking about this cool subject. Um, it really likes me up because, you know, talking about the same thing over and over, it just gets a little repetitive. So it's like, we're evolving. So, so is our podcast and so was our audience. So that's really cool. Totally. And I think, I think people, yeah, dig that they resonate with it, you know,
00:32:41
Speaker
Yeah, we talked so much about so much about like, terrible reading mindset, business, but like, what is your like, best
00:32:49
Speaker
Heck yes, sales technique. Oh, sales technique. Well, this doesn't sound very mind-blowing, but it's worked for me. And my in-person sales numbers have always been extremely high. And my return rate for clients has always been high. And I look at it and I'm like, hmm, well, that's great. But what is it? And I really think it's about being a real human being.
00:33:14
Speaker
I do not have a pitchy thing where I'm like, okay, this is what we're gonna do. I have things that I've repeated many times, just like some of the things I told you about Tarot today where it's like, obviously she's talked about this before, but I really think just being a real person goes a really long way and being genuinely interested in the other person. Moving from a transactional energy to an exchange is,
00:33:41
Speaker
It's like you might not even say anything different, but like if your intention is to like help and to to like want to connect with someone versus this is a transaction. Like it's going to be the intention. I really believe that like the intention behind what we do moves the energy in a totally different way.
00:34:02
Speaker
maybe we don't even consciously pick up on it but when we're when people are on calls I think people can tell that like I like them I want to help them like I'm excited to help them I'm interested in them like I'm genuinely curious about what their problem is and like I'm not like next you know
00:34:19
Speaker
Totally.
Maintaining Client Relationships
00:34:20
Speaker
When you feel someone wants to sail so bad, it's like you feel almost like get away from me. Like you put your guard up too. I mean, I was talking for myself. It's energetically like such a, such a turn off and it can be, I went into, this is really funny. I was in a little town walking around the other day and there was a door to like a, like a tarot palm reading kind of like place that was upstairs. And I went, I was like, huh, maybe I'll check it out just cause that seems up my alley, you know?
00:34:48
Speaker
And I don't usually do that, but I went in and it was like, and the person that greeted me was like, sit down, sit down. I'll, I'll, I'll read for you. And I said, Oh, I was just curious. I just wanted to say hello. I was just curious, like what, what the vibe was in here and you know what, you know, what I'm Natalie, what's your name?
00:35:07
Speaker
And they were just so cold. They were just like, oh, well, I don't really, I'm busy right now. So like, because I didn't want to sit down and just have a reading, it was like, there was this wall went up. And it was really surprising, especially in that space, because I feel like the folks that I interact with in like, if you want to call it like woo woo stuff is, are like very open hearted and like,
00:35:26
Speaker
And it was just a reminder. It was kind of like old school versus new school. It was like transactional versus like genuine like curiosity. Exactly. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. Very icky. That's an icky feeling. Yeah, totally. But yeah, you get totally told when someone just like
00:35:43
Speaker
Yeah. By my thing. Oh, you don't want it. Okay. See ya. Okay. See you never. Yeah. You don't mean anything to me. And it's worth noting to like whoever's listening that selling stuff, like pay attention. Like, do you really want just people to buy stuff or do you care about the people that you're selling stuff to? You know? And I think like just that shift is going to be like powerful. Yeah. Energetically we can't see it, but it does something. Yeah. I try to take notes like, you know, after all my sales calls and even if they don't,
00:36:13
Speaker
Hire me.
Advice for Overwhelmed Wedding Professionals
00:36:14
Speaker
I try to keep them in like kind of my thoughts because, you know, maybe one day that I can help them or they're ready. Then, um, you know, I'm like, you know, I've been rooting for you all these, all this time on the sidelines type of thing. So it's pretty cool energetically. I had a coach, um, and I did everything she said and she did it. It didn't work, paid a lot of money, did a lot of other stuff.
00:36:40
Speaker
And then somehow her energy just brought me back to her a year and a half later. And then we worked together again and I paid the money again and it worked. So it's crazy. Yeah. Just because she was saying the same old thing, you know, same old systems. She was a, she had a heart for it for lead generation. And I said, Hey, if it's how it's working for these people, why not me? There was something, something, um,
00:37:07
Speaker
something wrong that I was doing. So I think it was just, I need a more experience. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And sometimes it can be the person's like where you're at. It's not necessarily what they're offering, you know, exactly. Well, we'll leave it with one more question. Um, just to the hearts of wedding professionals, if they're struggling right now, even maybe wanting to give up or they just feel like energetically depleted. Um, what would you say to them today to just get out of their heads and like, um,
00:37:36
Speaker
I don't know, get more into the positive light.
00:37:39
Speaker
just specifically in the wedding industry. And just as a little background, like I, did you say wedding? Is that what you said? Yeah, but anyway, it doesn't matter. You know, I've shot like over 300 weddings and I did it for 10 years and I haven't, I haven't been shooting weddings the last couple of years, but I will say that the couple of things that I do take on are because I like them. And it comes back to this, like what makes you happy and what makes you wired back to that, like,
00:38:06
Speaker
Yeah, what do you like about the thing that you're doing and you get to choose you get to say no to stuff that feels Not exciting to you and you get to say yes to stuff that does and you also get to like you know if you're feeling really like burnt out and kind of like like maybe just Shake it up a little bit say like I'm gonna start doing This differently or I'm gonna cut back on this so that I can try this new thing and see how it takes room like just like
00:38:32
Speaker
freshening it up a little bit you know instead of doing it like when we do the same thing for too long like we don't evolve we don't really learn and we might be really good at it i think what happened to me is that as you know weddings are great money and i was very good at them in terms of like interpersonal relationships and quality of photos like i had a great time doing it it was never hard for me to do it i i think i was built for it but like that
00:38:56
Speaker
that just because you're really good at something, if your soul starts to slowly die, it doesn't mean you can't come back to it. And it doesn't mean those skills aren't going to be used in other places. But what really lights you up? Sometimes I tell my students to do kind of like a
00:39:16
Speaker
like a time travel thing where you just really try to connect to like what you were like when you were like eight or nine years old. Like, what did you like to do? Like, did you like to draw pictures? Were you really into movies? Were you really into like... Like, try and find something that you really love to do that you haven't done for a while. Like, I've been a musician my whole life, but I just picked up my guitar again, you know, recently. And I used to play every day and it's like, oh, like this whole other part of my soul, like, gets so happy, you know, when I sit and play.
00:39:45
Speaker
And so I think like just recognizing that if you walk away from it or if you change it, you can always change it back or come back, but like inject it with some life, you know, just cause you're good at it, just cause it's rolling along. Like you still, like your soul still needs to be simulated. So find ways that you can, I would say just find ways that you can make it more fun for yourself.
00:40:04
Speaker
Oh, Natalie, you always do stuff to like pull like my heartstrings. Where can everyone find you and how can they work with you? Yeah, so the easiest place to find everything that I'm connected to is just on Instagram at photobizhelp, B-I-Z. All the links will be connected to all, I have a couple of other Instagram accounts, so my main photo account and then the Tarot stuff. So it's all kind of, that's sort of like the root place and you can find the podcast there and the coaching stuff too.
00:40:31
Speaker
Yes. And then how can they work with you? What's the best way to, you said you have like a 30 minute console. Yeah. And again, so I would say from that place, you can either, you can go to, you can go to the Instagram photobishelp and like all the links will kind of get you around to the different accounts, or you can go to nataliejoann.com and there's, there's a links menu there with all the tarot stuff.
00:40:56
Speaker
Yay. It was so fun. If you guys like Natalie here today, you're going to love to coach with her. But thank you for coming on. This is such a powerful conversation. Thanks for having me on. It's so fun to talk to you again.
00:41:12
Speaker
Thanks for joining me this week on Get a Heck Yes with Carissa Wu. Make sure to follow, subscribe, leave a review, or tell a friend about the show. Take a screenshot and post to IG. Tag me. Also, don't forget to download my free guide on how to become a lead generating machine. See you next time, wedding pros!