Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Every Story Ever: March 2025
1.3k Plays20 days ago
On this month's special, we start with a debate about a comic strip and end...with a debate about three comic strips. And in the meantime, we cross 1,600 ranked comics!
We make our show on Zencastr, and you can too! Follow this link to sign up now!
Recommended
Transcript
Recording Setup with Zencastr
00:00:00
Speaker
This show is recorded using Zencaster. If you are a podcaster or you want to be a podcaster and you want to be able to record remotely, you can do so using Zencaster.
00:00:12
Speaker
They also have hosting options and you can let them know that we sent you. Follow the link in our show notes or in the episode description and sign up for an account on Zencaster now to start recording your own podcast.
Introduction to 'Every Story Ever' List
00:00:29
Speaker
have list on our website, warrocketajax.com, called Every Story Ever. What we're doing is we're taking lists.
00:00:43
Speaker
we're doing is we're taking
00:00:46
Speaker
from our listeners of three comic book stories, and then we are placing those stories on the list from best to worst comic book stories of all time.
00:01:01
Speaker
Hello everybody and welcome to the War Rocket Ajax Every Story Ever special for March 2025. What a month it was.
00:01:14
Speaker
What a year it's been. What a year March has been. That's right. That voice you just heard was that of Chris Sims, who always joins me on these monthly specials.
00:01:25
Speaker
where My name is Matt Wilson, by the way. Where we rank comic books on a big list of of all the comic books ever made, ever written. And at one time we used to rank comic strips, but we don't do that anymore.
00:01:39
Speaker
maybe Maybe one day again, but there is a moratorium. Yeah. Yeah. i mean I mean, obviously one day again, because we will have to rank every piece of sequential art that exists.
00:01:56
Speaker
Right. Because otherwise we can't go to heaven. That's right. what we've but The reason we've been doing this the whole time is so we can get into heaven. We can enter the kingdom of heaven.
00:02:08
Speaker
Right. Once we've ranked every single comic book story and piece of sequential art ever made, then we can enter the kingdom of heaven.
Top and Bottom Comic Stories Discussed
00:02:18
Speaker
ah Currently, the Every Story Ever list is 1,595 stories.
00:02:27
Speaker
So we will probably be hitting 1600 on this episode. That's a lot of comics. That's a lot of
Superman Story Submissions by Lucas Brown
00:02:33
Speaker
comics. ah The number one story on the list, as it has been for quite a while, is Spider-Man If This Be My Destiny Slash The Final Chapter, the best comic story ever printed by Stan Lee and Steve Ditko.
00:02:49
Speaker
The bottom of the list is Identity Crisis. That sucks. It sucks. This comic sucks. It is, as I have said before, it's a comic I'll die mad about.
00:03:03
Speaker
So let's rank some more. Let's get to 1600, Chris. Yeah, let's do it. Our first list on this special comes from Lucas Brown.
00:03:15
Speaker
Longtime friend. Longtime friend of the show. ah Sometimes editor of Apocryphals. and Editorial deacon emeritus, for sure. Yeah.
00:03:26
Speaker
And all around good guy. Great Brown. Love Lucas. Member of the Wolf Pack. Here's what Lucas says. Hi, Matt and Chris. Y'all want some random junk? Here's some random junk.
00:03:40
Speaker
The first story sent to us by Lucas, I am going to send you ah an image of. Because okay it is one of those comics that's technically a comic. It's not a comic strip.
00:03:59
Speaker
It is from the back of cereal boxes. Come on now, Lucas. It's from the back of... You're making me look like an asshole.
Debate on Ranking Standalone Comic Strips
00:04:11
Speaker
It's from the back of Pep Cereal. And the story is called Superman in the Menace of the Man-Made Lightning. It's the writer and artist of the story unknown.
00:04:27
Speaker
But it is an eight panel comic story.
00:04:32
Speaker
that was That was on the back of Pep Whole Wheat Flakes.
00:04:38
Speaker
I would guess sometime in the 1940s. Yeah, it's from 1948. This is from 1948. this is from nineteen forty eight
00:04:48
Speaker
So what we've got here is an opening panel. Hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on. Yeah. Hang on. Yep. This is incomplete.
00:05:00
Speaker
Is it in many ah chapters? I mean, it says at the end, for further exciting adventures of Superman, read the backs of other pet packages and follow the Superman radio program on the mutual network.
00:05:13
Speaker
it's sort I mean, this certainly, I guess, could be a standalone story, but I mean, it just ends with Superman, like, smashing Lex Luthor's laser beam, and, like, it feels like there should be, le that does, it feels like there should be more to it.
00:05:36
Speaker
It's a very abrupt end, if that's an end. I mean, it's a Golden Age story. That feels pretty accurate for a Golden Age story Well, I don't want to rank it, so I'm really looking for for things here, man.
00:05:50
Speaker
Here's the thing. It's not a comic strip. We have ranked one-page comic stories in the past. fit Matt, this is a comic. Don't. Come on This is a comic strip.
00:06:03
Speaker
it's so I think this is a one-page comic story. This is a fucking Sunday strip. if it's If it's anything.
00:06:14
Speaker
All right, so here's what
Superman's Pep Cereal Box Stories
00:06:16
Speaker
this here's the story. I'll just quickly go through the story. if Chris, if you want to be a grump and not rank it, then fine.
00:06:25
Speaker
But here's the story. Lex Luthor, or I guess he's just Luthor in this. Yeah, I think Lex came later. ah this is This is pretty early. This is this is golden age still.
00:06:39
Speaker
It's in the laboratory of Luther, crooked scientist. He says, I've harnessed atomic energy. And ah his henchman says, and you can make it act like a bolt of lightning, huh, boss?
00:06:52
Speaker
Luther says, correct. My first target will be the 32nd National Bank, and you boys will do the rest. Best part of the story, honestly, thirty second National Bank. I think it's funny that he's going to attack the bank with nuclear power and expect there be to be any money to take.
00:07:09
Speaker
I also like that, um keep in mind, you can make it act like a bolt of lightning. You know what lightning does. Huh? Yeah. You've seen lightning before. You know what it does.
00:07:22
Speaker
Luther's man-made lightning hurtles with terrific force from his mountain lair to the bank building below. That is not the way that it is depicted. ah In the panel.
00:07:33
Speaker
It's more like a bank adjacent.
Ranking Power Company Series by Kurt Busiek
00:07:35
Speaker
There's a lot of forced perspective happening there, I feel like. Calling it perspective is generous. Yeah. Luther's machine... ah People on the street are selling... Luther's machine melted that vault like it was ice cream.
00:07:47
Speaker
And we've got a cool million. What a cinch. Oh, these are his henchmen. Yeah, that's why they have guns. Yeah, and then... In the office of the chief of police, the police chief says, if this keeps up, not a bank in the country will be safe. And Superman says, don't wait, chief. I'll be on the lookout.
00:08:02
Speaker
So I guess Superman just hangs out. here to protect the property of the rich. Yeah. Superman just hangs out in the police chief's office in this version of Superman.
00:08:13
Speaker
A few days later is what the next caption is. Not immediately. A few days later.
00:08:25
Speaker
Superman is... Take it as sweet time. Superman is heading toward the mountain lair and saying, there it is again, headed for the Broad Street Bank. Gotta intercept it before it hits. So Superman jumps in front of the blast, the nuclear blast. I do i do like the chief of police saying, hey if this keeps up, it's gonna be bad. And Superman being like, yeah, I'll be on the lookout for it.
00:08:47
Speaker
I'll keep an eye out. If it happens again, I'll do something. Yeah. ah So Superman takes the blast to the chest and says, now to get to that lab and see who's behind this.
00:09:00
Speaker
And then it's inside the lab. Superman is smashing the beam, the lightning maker, and says, Luther, I thought so. Stick around, my friend. You and I have a date with the law.
00:09:11
Speaker
Yeah, and doesn't it feel like there should be another panel to that? i mean... Maybe, but it would just be like Luther getting arrested. it feels like
Agent X Series Analysis
00:09:23
Speaker
it feels like the end of a Golden Age story to me, gotta say.
00:09:27
Speaker
um guess but it's like I guess I'm just used to Lex Luthor having, i don't know, a second part of his plan? not Not Luther. Luther had one thing that he was going to do, and Superman... And he did it once, and it worked.
00:09:43
Speaker
And then Superman waited a few days to ah defeat him. ah Because i guess he had other stuff going on. The Daily Star doesn't publish itself, Matt.
00:09:57
Speaker
That's true. ah At the top, there's a number four. So I'm assuming this is the fourth... comic in the series of Superman comics on the PEP i i boxes. I think we would need the other boxes to determine if this is a part of a larger story.
00:10:20
Speaker
Alright, fair enough. Fair enough. I don't want to rank PEP serial Superman and the Menace of the Man-Made Lightning and then look like a fool when it turns out that this story has three other pages.
00:10:33
Speaker
I mean... I can all but guarantee that each each box is a self-contained story. All but guarantee. I can all but guarantee.
00:10:46
Speaker
But if there's that bit of uncertainty, then we'll put this on the shelf. It's a fucking comic strip.
00:10:56
Speaker
All right, next on Lucas's list is Power Surge from 2002, written by Kurt Busiek, with art by Kieran Dwyer, Keith Giffen, jn Dan Juergens, Mark Bailey, Joe Staten, Ramon F. Box, and Matt Haley.
00:11:11
Speaker
ah This was seven number one issues. The Power Company Bork number one, the Power Company Josiah Power number one, the Power Company Manhunter number one. The Power Company Sapphire No. 1, The Power Company Skyrocket No.
00:11:22
Speaker
1, The Power Company Striker Z No. 1, and The Power Company Witchfire No. 1. I think you could almost call this part of the 18 issues of The Power Company.
00:11:39
Speaker
So you're saying this is part of the broader Power Company story? i I feel like Power Company runs for 18 in...
00:11:50
Speaker
2002 to 2003. But it is kind of like... There's there's more through... Like Starman, there's more through-line to it than individual stories. I think i think you could say... the The only thing that I would say keeps this from being an an obvious, oh, this is all the same story, is the art.
00:12:15
Speaker
Because you've got, like, you know like Tom Grumman, I believe, draws the entire main series. and it's This is very ah similar to the story structure of, say, a Seven Soldiers, ah where it's different artists and focus on focuses on different characters in each part.
00:12:36
Speaker
Yeah. And just as good. And just as good. It's got to it's got to be. Every bit as good. So, what are you what are you advocating for here as far as ranking?
00:12:50
Speaker
ah I would say... Submit the entire Power Company series? I mean, I think we could go ahead and rank the entire Power Company series if we don't already have it. Alright, let's see.
00:13:02
Speaker
I don't think we have. Oh, yeah, we do. It's at 901. Yes, and and my are notes my notes include the Power Company number 1 to 18 and one shots.
00:13:13
Speaker
So, okay, we've already ranked Power Company. It's at number 901. This is included in that. we ranked it in ah June of 2023. Here's what I'll say since we're talking about it, though.
00:13:25
Speaker
It's fucking wild that Detective Comics Comics put out...
00:13:33
Speaker
seven, one, two, three, four, five, six, seven one-shots to launch the power company.
00:13:45
Speaker
And only one of them is about an existing character that people have heard of. And that character is Carl Bork. Who, I would say, stretches the definition of an existing character that people have heard of.
00:13:59
Speaker
Like...
00:14:02
Speaker
Like, Bork? Like, Bork who fought Batman that one time? Which, I swear to God, I'm pretty sure it's like, he fought Batman one time.
00:14:13
Speaker
Like, the Manhunter here is even a different version of the Walt Simonson, Archie Gilbert Manhunter. Like, he it this is not ah Paul Kirk. This is Kirk DePaul, a clone of Paul Kirk.
00:14:26
Speaker
So it's even that. If you want to stretch it and say two out of seven characters like were established and they are obscure characters.
00:14:40
Speaker
Look, I like this comic. I think the Power Company was good. I'm excited to have the Power Company come back. I hope Skyrocket comes back.
Unique Take on Deadpool in Agent X
00:14:47
Speaker
hope Witchfire comes back. Love Witchfire. ah It's truly wild that they did this.
00:14:57
Speaker
Finally, on Lucas's list is Agent X numbers one through six, Dead Man's Switch, written by Gail Simone with art by Udon Studios. And Lucas says, if this is too much to be considered one story, despite being all under the name Dead Man's Switch ah header, please do number two where they're hired to steal the Punisher's guns.
00:15:16
Speaker
I think, here's what I think, Lucas, and I'm sorry that we're relitigating every single thing you've submitted here. But Agent X was a series that ran for 15 issues.
00:15:28
Speaker
a It is all of the same level of quality. It is basically all one story. We should just rank all of Agent X 1 through 15. Yes. i I'm fine with doing that.
00:15:41
Speaker
Also, Agent X might be the most underrated Marvel comic of its time. It is so weird that it is it It hits ah exactly the wrong time for a Deadpool book.
00:16:02
Speaker
Well, the the I think it it that's true, but also it was the replacement for Deadpool. Yes. Right? Yeah.
00:16:14
Speaker
And
00:16:17
Speaker
he i think there were a lot of people who wanted just a Deadpool comic. And Agent X in 2002, so concurrent to do X-Men.
00:16:33
Speaker
Mm-hmm. is saying, like oh no, no this is this is the new take on Deadpool. which well Of course, he turns out to not be Deadpool. The big question of the book is, if this is Wade Wilson, and then it turns out to not be him.
00:16:49
Speaker
but This was one of the off-again times in ah Marvel Comics' on-again, off-again relationship with Rob Liefeld. right ah As I understand it, I believe that's that's what was happening.
00:17:06
Speaker
um Because Deadpool was cancelled and essentially became Agent X.
Agent X's Creative Team and Impact
00:17:14
Speaker
Cable was cancelled and became Soldier X. And i don't I didn't read Soldier X, so I don't know if it had a similar gimmick.
00:17:23
Speaker
But the... The gimmick of Agent X is, is this Deadpool? yeah It might not be Deadpool. Right. And that he's written with enough plausible deniability that they could, ah you know, go to court and say, no, Agent X, original character, do not steal.
00:17:42
Speaker
Right. yeah Because he's he's not going by the name Wade Wilson. He's going by the name Alex Hayden. And I think the notion was, the idea was, that this could have ended up being Wade Wilson in his new persona, right?
00:17:59
Speaker
Yeah, he loses all his memories at the start of the series. He loses all his memories, but he's got, like, basically Deadpool's powers. He's got, ah you know... ah healing factor and all of that stuff.
00:18:11
Speaker
um There's a bit at one. it Okay. So starting with like issue three, the recap page is just a, um it's like from Alex Hayden's journal.
00:18:24
Speaker
It's from agent X's journal. And i forget which issue it's in, but there's one issue where in his journal, he's just writing about like, What happened to him and how his foot got blown off.
00:18:38
Speaker
And then he just writes, foot grew back. Way to go, foot! And ah that's great. Yeah. For me, this is the book... like i was I was an early adopter of the Gail Simone train.
00:18:54
Speaker
ah huh i was a I was killer princesses. and Much in the same way that I was like down with Gene Yang from Loyola Chin and the Sam Pellegrin Order, I was on the Gail Simone train from Killer Princesses.
00:19:09
Speaker
ah But this is the book that I read and I was like, oh, this is a superstar. This is like... like Gail Simone is is going to be... If there's any justice in this world, Gail Simone's going to be huge.
00:19:25
Speaker
Because it's... It's genuinely funny in a way that Deadpool hadn't really been since at least Joe Kelly, and is is funnier than Joe Kelly.
00:19:42
Speaker
Yes. to me To me, this book that actually isn't about Deadpool is the funniest thing. Deadpool comic.
00:19:53
Speaker
Like, Taskmaster in this is hilarious. Taskmaster's great. Because, okay, so the idea is that he lost all his memories. And so he needs to be retrained to fight.
00:20:06
Speaker
So they get Taskmaster to do it. And this version of Taskmaster is, like, funny. Yeah. And Gail Simone had written a little bit of Deadpool prior to this as well. Yeah. yeah ah there was ah There was a brief Gail Simone Deadpool run before this. Yeah, it was like four issues, Deadpool explodes at the end, loses memories, becomes Agent X.
00:20:30
Speaker
The supporting cast is great. ah ah Crazy Inez. love Crazy Inez. ah the The cowboy yeah lady, cowgirl.
00:20:43
Speaker
oh I love Alex Hayden's, what's the name of his, like, sidekick slash business manager? ah I'll find it.
00:20:55
Speaker
ah Yeah, it's it's it's a lot of not the Deadpool supporting cast. Yeah. Because... but it's But it's not like a one-for-one, like, there's no Blind Owl, there's no Weasel.
00:21:08
Speaker
Right. It's... it's New characters filling the roles of supporting cast that is that are very fun. I also like the idea of Taskmaster putting on different t-shirts so that Deadpool knows who he's fighting. Like when he's using Captain America movies, he puts on a Captain America t-shirt. At one point he puts on like a Wolverine t-shirt like you would get from a comic book store.
00:21:34
Speaker
it and ah And an Electra Lives Again t-shirt.
00:21:40
Speaker
which wild. That's just in the first issue, man. Agent X is good. Agent X good as hell. It, it was one of my favorite books at the time it was coming out and it went for 15 issues. And then of course, by the end of it, Deadpool was back on again and like on again. Yeah.
00:22:01
Speaker
And, and so they, they spent the last couple of issues reintroducing Deadpool. Um, and And saying, oh, no, no, this is a different guy. This is not Wade Wilson. This is a different guy.
00:22:14
Speaker
Yeah, it turns out Alex Hayden is his own guy. And still exists, I believe.
00:22:22
Speaker
Yes. Yes. ah I don't know when he's the last time he's been used. ah Niho is his real name.
00:22:34
Speaker
And he had appeared before. I guess. Uh, but I, I don't think he's shown up in a long time.
Gail Simone's Influence on Agent X
00:22:40
Speaker
He made a cameo. I mean, this does not really narrow down much, but I know he made a cameo at some point in the last 10 years, just to let you know, Hey, he does still exist. Like, i think he popped up in like, like West coast Avengers or like, uh, like the Hawkeye, like Kelly Thompson book.
00:23:05
Speaker
Uh, His sidekick was named Sandy. Sandy. And yeah, she was she was around through the series. Let me see. I'm going to look up Neho and see what his last appearance was on the Marvel database.
00:23:21
Speaker
He was in Marauders. He was in an issue of Marauders. he And he was in Deadpool Nerdy 30. Yeah, because I think he actually is a mutant.
00:23:35
Speaker
Yes, I think that's right. His last appearance was in 2021. Yeah. there you yeah See, less than years. I was right. Yeah. Agent X could as hell. If you haven't read Agent X, like it it's I haven't gone back to it in a million years, but I also feel like it it is very much a 2003 comic book, but in a good way.
00:24:02
Speaker
Not in the way that we usually refer to 2003 comic books. i i I will say it it gave me an impression of Gale as a writer who was just funny.
00:24:18
Speaker
And so when I read later Gale Simone comics that were not as funny, I was like, why is it this as funny as Agent X? Yeah. Which is unfair. You say just funny, but I mean, like, it's funny in the way that I think the Giffen-Demadius Justice League is funny. In that it's, everybody remembers it for being funny, but like, there's good action in there.
00:24:39
Speaker
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I forgot the the bit about how Alex, for a while, couldn't talk because his vocal cords got cut out.
00:24:52
Speaker
And so he had to write everything down for a while.
00:24:58
Speaker
like ah like he He just like but writes on like a whiteboard. So when he breaks into Sandy's bathroom, he goes, Sorry, left guns at park. We'll buy new toilet. You okay?
00:25:10
Speaker
ah it's I mean, it's really funny and good. Agent X. One of those we-loved-it comics that didn't perform as well as a Deadpool comic because it didn't have Deadpool on the cover.
00:25:28
Speaker
Yeah. But at the time, Deadpool was not performing well. like that's That's what I mean when I say it's the wrong time for a Deadpool comic. Because like it was only a couple of years later that... like Everybody loved Deadpool again.
00:25:43
Speaker
yeah I do feel like a lot of that is down to this book in the way that, like... Look, you know that I have more love for Rob than a lot of fans.
00:25:56
Speaker
Than most, yeah. I have a financial interest in Rob as well. By the way, I did not know this until Chad texted me. There's a new hardcover of Bad Blood and the sequel, Batter Blood, um which Chad wrote solo, ah that came out last week.
00:26:11
Speaker
ah wow Marvel doesn't actually tell you that, ah but there it is out, and I will get money for it if you buy it. So, go buy it, please. ah But, I do think it's fair to say joe Kelly and Ed McGinnis are more responsible for the modern... for what Deadpool is than Rob initially was. I think Rob embraced that.
00:26:36
Speaker
Absolutely. I mean... You're 100% correct, yes. Yeah, but and much in the same way, I feel like this, like Gail Simone coming in, like really, like, the was, like, no, this is what this character is, and it is good.
00:26:55
Speaker
Like, because up until this point, the Joe Kelly run had kind of been an anomaly, and Gail coming in was like, no, no, this is, Deadpool is a an action comedy character.
00:27:07
Speaker
You know, I had forgotten that Gail only wrote seven – wait. Okay, she wrote one through seven of Agent X. Then she was off the book for a while.
00:27:23
Speaker
Was she? Where it was different writers for little bit. Oh, that's right. Buddy Scalera. You remember him? Buddy Scalera wrote two issues, then Evan Dorkin wrote a couple issues. Those Buddy Scalera issues fucking suck.
00:27:40
Speaker
Yeah, now I'm rethinking ranking all 15. I think we need to rank 1 through 7. well let see But then Gale comes back for 14 15. The Evan Dorkin issues are pretty good.
00:27:53
Speaker
The Evan Dorkin issues are pretty good, but different. so it's it's get The Gale part of Agent X is 1 through 7, And 13 through 15. So that's what we should rank.
00:28:04
Speaker
I think we can count those as kind of a single story. Because honestly, again, much love for Evan Dorkin, who I'm pretty sure hates me. But it's it's very difficult to tell for me if Evan Dorkin hates you.
00:28:19
Speaker
Right. I remember i got in an elevator at Heroes Con, and he was in there. And I said, hey, Evan. And he just leaned his head back against the wall and went, hello, Chris. I mean, at least he knows who you are.
00:28:32
Speaker
ah i had i had talked to him at length that day. i I can guarantee you Evan Dorkin has zero clue who I am.
00:28:43
Speaker
yeah Blessing occurs, Matt.
00:28:47
Speaker
Alright, so we're going to do Agent 1-7 and then all by
00:28:54
Speaker
because issues eight through twelve are all by different
Marvel's Strategic Decisions in the 2000s
00:29:01
Speaker
writers. Buddy Scalera, Evan Dorkin, and then 12 is by ah Daniel Way?
00:29:10
Speaker
Woof. Yeah. Weird. forgot all about that. i Look, I've met Daniel Way.
00:29:22
Speaker
Nice guy. oh
00:29:26
Speaker
Creator of Hitmonkey. So, good good on him. um I have never encountered Buddy Scalera outside of his work for Marvel Comics in the mid-2000s.
00:29:38
Speaker
And I don't want to be mean,
00:29:42
Speaker
but those comics fucking suck. He was, like, uniquely awful. Like, I forgot he existed, and then remembering that he did these issues of Agent X fucking blew my mind.
00:29:56
Speaker
Because that's like, I haven't heard that name in a million years. so And again, knew nothing about him beyond those comics. Comics writing was not where he should be in life.
00:30:06
Speaker
Like Chuck Austin. Comics writing is not where Chuck Austin should be. Chuck's thriving, and I love that for him. Comics is not where he should be. Yeah. ah it Animation is where is where Chuck ended up.
00:30:20
Speaker
Chuck's doing great. we love We love Chuck the Truck in the modern day. it was... We... We all want Chuck Austin have a slow motion breakdown in real time. I would be more than happy to put Agent X, the Gale parts of Agent X, in the top 500.
00:30:39
Speaker
Buddy Scalera wrote 18 Marvel comics, including some Deadpool stuff, some these two issues of Agent X,
00:30:53
Speaker
ah X-Men Unlimited,
00:30:56
Speaker
They're fucking bad, dude. Well, ah I guess if you want some bottom shooters, Buddy Scalera's comics are a way to do that. two like I feel like, God, I feel like I'm being mean, and I'm not trying to be, but I feel like Buddy Scalera was somebody's friend.
00:31:17
Speaker
Well, that was a time period of Marvel where that was definitely happening. Yeah, like I feel like he was maybe like Jimmy Palmiati's friend or something. Well, there there was also a lot of Bill Jumis' friends getting books.
00:31:30
Speaker
So... Yeah, but like, the the two dudes from this era whose comics are like... I mean, look, obviously there's a lot of bad comics from this era. i I, you know, Brad Meltzer and Geoff Johns are the two guys of this era that I have hated on the most.
00:31:46
Speaker
um Buddy Scalera at Marvel and Anderson Gaberich... or Gabrick at DC were the dog shit worst. I mean, I have the names of some other Marvel writers. Hit me, Matt. Let's hate.
00:32:03
Speaker
I mean, Ron Zimmerman. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a guy people remember for sucking. Yeah, yeah, yeah. like You're talking about like like deep cut, barely remember them writers.
00:32:20
Speaker
yeah Because Get Craven remains the single worst comic I ever purchased. You didn't purchase Marville?
00:32:30
Speaker
Marville... I did. but Marville has is fascinating in a way that Get Craven absolutely wasn't. Yeah. ah Anderson Gaberich, much like Buddy Scalera, like Buddy Scalera did Agent X and Anderson Gaberich did, ah like,
00:32:50
Speaker
like Harley Quinn and
00:32:56
Speaker
this bad or no, Batgirl. Anderson Gavriks did Batgirl. I want to say he also did some Harley Quinn stuff, but it doesn't seem to show up here on the, on the DC database. um They are very much like,
00:33:13
Speaker
so of their time that I feel like they may be like, they might've been, retconned out of existence in Infinite Crisis and Civil War, respectively.
00:33:28
Speaker
As for Gale's Agent X issues... Great! A million times better! I would say that they go somewhere around the upper 400s.
00:33:42
Speaker
I think they're just as fun to read and just as good as the Daniel Warren Johnson Beta Rape Bill series we have at number 496. Yeah, ah we actually have the the Kelly McGinnis e ah ah run of Deadpool at 749, which feels right to me, but I do feel like this is a better run than that.
00:34:07
Speaker
I like this more. Shorter, for sure. But yeah, very good. like like very very good um Also, we haven't talked about the art at all. The Udon Studios Divisive.
00:34:18
Speaker
Divisive, but I like it. I like it. I like it, too. It makes perfect sense why they became the Street Fighter people. Yeah. After that.
00:34:29
Speaker
People at the time fucking hated it. And I liked it. liked it, like, this Taskmaster redesign, people were like, why would you redesign Taskmaster? He's got, like, one of the best costumes in comics.
00:34:43
Speaker
And it's like, yeah, but also Deathstroke has that costume. Like, George Perez just designed these two dudes and gave them the same costume, and one of them has a cape. And that's the only difference.
00:34:54
Speaker
This is a Taskmaster with a different tone. Yeah. So, like... but live with it. I thought Taskmaster looked cool in this. For a while there, it was the the people who liked Udon Taskmaster were you, me, and David Brothers.
00:35:08
Speaker
yeah And that was it. ah How about 497 right below Beta Ray Bill?
00:35:19
Speaker
Yeah, I think that works. 497, yeah. Well, hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on. Alright. The current 497 is Daredevil Acts of Vengeance. Yeah.
00:35:31
Speaker
That's where Daredevil beats Ultron to death with a stick. Okay. So 498. 498, yeah. Alright, 498, Agent numbers through numbers 13 through 15.
00:35:43
Speaker
and then also numbers thirteen through fifteen
00:35:53
Speaker
I would love to do all 15 in one ranking, but... but no that buddy Scalera issues fucking suck. the There is a ah big quality divide, so... Absolute dog shit, dude. And i do not I do not say that lightly, and I do not say that to be mean.
00:36:13
Speaker
Terrible. ah Okay. There is a backup from Lucas here. which is Skull the Slayer numbers 5 through 8 and Marvel 2-in-1 numbers 35 through 36, written by Mark Wolfman and Bill Mantlo, Marv Wolfman and Bill Mantlo, art by Sal Basima Ernie Chan, a.k.a. the time travel to the Incas story.
Kieran Gillen's Series for Future Analysis
00:36:37
Speaker
ah I have only read the Marvel 2-in-1 issue. I have not read Skull the Slayer. I am aware of Skull the Slayer, and I have probably purchased those issues at some point in my past, but I have not read them. Okay, neither have I, so ah Apologies. The Evan Dorkin issues of Agent X, by the way, are are fun. they are They're the return of Fight Man.
00:36:57
Speaker
Yeah. and Your Evan Dorkin creation. Yeah, I remember that. Yeah. um I remember those being good. ah the they They weirdly, and then the Daniel Way issue weirdly had Kyle Hott's art.
00:37:13
Speaker
Also, don't don't like ask Evan Dorkin if he hates me, but like if he mentions it, let me know. Anyone who talks to Evan Dorkin on any kind of regular basis. Don't don't don't bring me up.
00:37:26
Speaker
But like if if he just casually mentions it at one time. Because I'm sure Evan Dorkin thinks about me as much as I think about Evan Dorkin.
00:37:38
Speaker
ah Alright, our next list is from Colin McGonigal. And Colin says, these are great catch-up contenders. ah The first one is... Then we haven't read them, Colin.
00:37:51
Speaker
Yeah. ah The first one is something we've already probably committed to doing as a catch-up. It's the Silver Surfer book by Dan Slott and Mike Allred. Yeah. That is probably the next catch-up after we finish The Shadow.
00:38:07
Speaker
Then we have a Dead Dog's Bite by Tyler Boss. i don't I don't like the title of that. yeah you don't Yeah, that's not the kind of dog you like.
00:38:19
Speaker
That's not the kind of dog I like.
00:38:22
Speaker
ah this seems to be kind of I'm very reluctant to engage with that book. This is a ah Dark Horse book ah that seems sort of noir-ish, maybe.
00:38:36
Speaker
hey yeah It looks kind of cool. i'm I might go back and read it, maybe. It seems like the kind of thing you'd like. Yeah. And then finally is Once and Future by Kieran Gillen and Dan Mora.
00:38:51
Speaker
I feel like I started reading that and then did that. That's a a prime catch-up contender. Because you know who I like is ah both those guys. That is 30 issues of comics.
00:39:08
Speaker
mean... For 30 issues. Matt, read of One Piece.
00:39:13
Speaker
issues one base I know, but I'm saying for a catch-up, that's a bit of a big ask. ah But, I mean, it is a great-looking comic. It's got Dan Mora art.
00:39:27
Speaker
Yeah. So, you know. is it i still I bet it's written at least well. Yeah. Is it still going? Or is it finished?
00:39:40
Speaker
Is it based on Avalon High, at the Disney Channel original movie? Um... I'm going to guess not. Okay. Although they might have similar themes.
00:39:53
Speaker
I do love themes. Yeah. Okay, no, it ended in 2022, so we're good there.
00:40:02
Speaker
All right. Some catch-up contenders. Thank you, Colin, for that. Silver Surfer, we're definitely going to do Once in Future is also going in the in the hopper.
00:40:15
Speaker
For a future catch-up. Although that'll be one we probably have to split into two parts.
00:40:21
Speaker
ah Our next list is from Kyle Graber. And this is more Kieran Gillen stuff. One of the submissions is actually Once and Future. Once again.
00:40:33
Speaker
The fans are demanding it. Yeah. ah First is The Wicked and the Divine.
00:40:40
Speaker
Which... Have we not ranked that? I've never finished it. I never finished it either. so of course we i' the Another one that I would like to catch up on, because again, it's like like when it's like a face versus face, man. I'm over here like both these guys. Both these guys.
00:40:56
Speaker
Yeah. ah But again, like 45 issues. A lot ah lot of comic. ah I remember reading a good chunk of it, but not the whole thing. definitely started it.
00:41:10
Speaker
Yeah. But fell off for some reason. Probably had to read Probably had to read some Tom King comic. Now this one, Chris, I think you probably read all of, Die.
00:41:23
Speaker
I didn't read all Die. I read the first arc of Die, then... didn't finish it for no reason other than I was like, ooh, this is one that I want to... like I might have missed a couple issues, and then I was like, oh, I need to like take some time to catch up.
00:41:39
Speaker
So I didn't read all of Dai. I fucking loved that first arc. yeah God, I really need to catch up on some comics. ah the Very clever ah
00:41:52
Speaker
total number of issues of Dai, which is 20. Fantastic. ah actually did buy the Die RPG hardcover as well. um Because it ah ah they it was, for some reason, the local comic book store up here in beautiful Minneapolis, Minnesota, ah had it for like $10.
Admiration for Personal Friends in Comics
00:42:14
Speaker
ten bucks And I was like, hell yeah, I'll give that for $10. Haven't read it, haven't cracked the spine, but ah yeah I bet it's good. I'll say this about Die.
00:42:26
Speaker
I read the first few issues. ah Stephanie Hans was the artist on Die, by the way. Beautiful book. That book started coming out in 2018.
00:42:40
Speaker
And I had not played any D&D yet then. i don't think I played D&D. When did we start the campaign? we The first one we did.
00:42:51
Speaker
Maybe it was around then. Maybe. but But probably after? Might have been 2019. yeah And Die is very much a book that...
00:43:05
Speaker
I'm not going to say that it requires you to have played a lot of tabletop games. But if you haven't, which I hadn't when it started coming out, you kind of feel like you're missing some context for an inside joke.
00:43:21
Speaker
It's certainly like reading Watchmen as your first comic. like i yeah People have done it, and I'm sure they got something out of it, but you would get more out of it if you had read more comics.
00:43:33
Speaker
And with this, you would get more out of it if you played more tabletop games. Yes. And I hadn't then. It would probably mean a lot more to me now to go back and read it.
00:43:45
Speaker
Yeah. So, we we should just do, like A handful of Kieran Gillen catch-ups.
00:43:56
Speaker
Because we like that guy. We do like that guy. What he writes. so ah ok I would love to have him on the show more often if he was not if it was not 3 a.m. m when we record in where he lives.
00:44:10
Speaker
Yeah. Alright, here's our next list. It's from Philip Monroe. This is a list of wrestling comics that... ah Philip is pretty sure we've all read we've read all of now one of these we've already ranked for sure and that's do a power bomb do power bomb good as hell do power bomb is on the list at number 24 okay I have it at number 25 oh no have it at number 24 have it at number 24 looking at the wrong column sorry don't don't spike my anxiety like that sorry Matt sorry
00:44:42
Speaker
ah Also submitted is Super Pro KO, which we do have Volume 1 ranked at number 899. Yes, and I believe that's... i I maybe have read further in that.
00:44:56
Speaker
ah it's great Great book. Well, it was submitted as a whole it submitted as a whole, and we already have ranked Volume 1. I don't think we can do that either. But ah we do have La Mano del Destino by Jay Gonzo.
00:45:12
Speaker
Is this... Okay, we've ranked Benito's comics. We've ranked Benito's comics. Gonzo almost feels like he's too in the fam for us to rank. I mean, if we've if we can rank Benito's comics, I think we can rank Jake Gonzo's comics. We've ranked Benito's comics pre-Apocrypals.
00:45:31
Speaker
Yeah. But I think we would still rank a Benito comic now, if if somebody submitted a Hector Plasm story. You know how I would rank that? I'd be like, Benito's comics are...
00:45:45
Speaker
Well, you know, Benito's Benito. That's what I would say. Yeah, yeah.
00:45:53
Speaker
Just kidding. Look, I was a fan of Benito's before we were friends. Same. I read Tales of the Bully Pulpit yeah in college. Bully Pulpit and Hector Plasm, good as hell, man.
00:46:03
Speaker
I remember going to Acme Comics in Greensboro, North Carolina. Great show. with With Ben Gulley. Great guy. And picking up, we both picked up copies of Tales of the Bully Pulpit.
00:46:16
Speaker
Great comic. and And loved it. Yeah, man. ah Okay, so so you're saying we can rank La Mano del Decino?
00:46:28
Speaker
Yeah. Okay. with With the qualifier that that Jay Gonzo is
00:46:38
Speaker
Bare minimum, fam adjacent. Oh, I'd say he's fam. He's fully fam. He's certainly family in the Fast and Furious sense. He's he's fam. he He has designed
00:46:51
Speaker
several... I can't even count how many of our t-shirts. He's working on the Gimmick Street Good Hats. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like ah like so like the brand.
00:47:02
Speaker
Like the brand. and Like the the whole brand... Yeah. yeah yeah Gonzo designed the machine. did. Which is appropriate because La Mano del Destino, it rules.
00:47:16
Speaker
It does. i have So I got new bookcases for my office this year. isn And... Because I only had one bookcase in here.
00:47:27
Speaker
It was falling apart because it had been through like three moves. And ah i it was absolutely not enough room for what I needed.
00:47:38
Speaker
And so I bought a couple of new bookcases and kind of reworked my office. And as a result of that, I was able to have a friend shelf.
00:47:52
Speaker
on my bookcase on one of my bookcases. And in a very, very prominent position on my friend shelf is the Kickstarter-funded Lomano Del Decino trade paperback.
00:48:07
Speaker
what all What all's on your friend shelf? ah Well, I've got Bad Blood on there.
00:48:15
Speaker
and Correct answer. I don't know. I'll have to go take a look at it because I can't see it from where I'm sitting. okay But I know I've got some Kibblesmith stuff on there. I've got some books by you. I've got some Jordan Witt comics.
00:48:29
Speaker
I've got Kyle. all All my Kyle comics are there. All my Kyle books are on my friend shelf, yeah. I have my let's be ah
00:48:39
Speaker
Let's Be Friends Again trade paperback.
00:48:44
Speaker
Uh...
00:48:48
Speaker
The Benito comics I have are on there. So i my tale that Tales from the Bully Pulpit book that I bought however many years ago in college is on there. My signed Tales from Bully Pulpit is on my front shelf, yeah.
00:49:01
Speaker
Yeah. um I'll have to go take a look and see what else is on there. But yeah, it's it's a pretty full shelf of comics. Do you keep your Erica comics on your front shelf?
00:49:14
Speaker
Erica's comics are on there as well. My Squirrel Girl stuff is on there and and so on. i have I have the Erica ones on my friend shelf. Sometimes I do wonder if that's misplaced.
00:49:29
Speaker
not not because it Not because I don't like Erica. Okay, I'll tell you what. I'll go over and look. So vamp for a second. and okay i'll i'll be i Because i I'm feeling bad about anything I forgot.
00:49:42
Speaker
Okay. Alright, I'll vamp. um it's It's pretty fucked up that Matt did not mention the new printing of of Dump set fight on there, the hardcover. Or if he did, I was not paying attention when he did. But it's, either way, one of us did something fucked up.
00:49:58
Speaker
And it was probably Matt. But yeah, I've got a lot of... My friend shelf, that's the one right next to the bed. So I've got I've got, ah it's actually half French Shelf. and It's half French Shelf, and then the other half is Yotsubito and ah but in Pluto.
00:50:17
Speaker
It's where I keep ah those two long-running manga. So it's like, all my friends and my good friend Naoki Arasawa and ah ah the Azumanga Dayo and Yotsuba, which, we're not friends.
00:50:34
Speaker
I'd like to think that Naoki Arasawa and I would be friends. I heard everything you said. I did not take my headphones off because they're wireless. ah Downset Fight is over there, but it's not the new printing. It's not but it's not bad the hardcover.
00:50:50
Speaker
Yeah, it's the one I had. I have two copies. I have Hate U Forever and The Super Villain Handbook on my free show. And I love you for it. I love you for it.
00:51:01
Speaker
right ah I have some Kevin Church comics on there. Yeah. ah Going back to I think it's the rack. Yeah. Although it's it's not on the side of it.
00:51:13
Speaker
i also have ah all my oma Fraction comics on there. So I've got Sex Criminals and Hawkeye on there. And Carla's stuff is on there. My like Inspector Pancakes book is is on that shelf, too. I don't think I've got Inspector Pancakes up anywhere or any of the other Carla stuff. Because I think that's that's with like stuff I've picked up from her at cons. So it's in my stuff I've picked up at cons boxes.
00:51:34
Speaker
And then I have like some friend friend's... Friend of the Show stuff on there as well, like The Dusk by Alex Segura. a that like And like jerry like like Amazing Spider-Man 121.
Review and Ranking of 'La Mano del Destino'
00:51:50
Speaker
ah That I don't have. That would probably be on a different shelf. First Punisher by Friend of the Show Jerry Conway. That's right, yeah. all ah All of Jack's staff. My friend of the show, Paul Grist.
00:52:02
Speaker
Oh, and I have Kels. All my Kels McDonald stuff on there. I've got Kels stuff on there, too. yeah Having a friend shelf is fun, man. It is. Because I get to look at him and be like, man, I love these guys. So, okay. we We have to we have to
00:52:20
Speaker
fairly rank La Mano del Destino. Yes. Here's what I will say. I texted Gonzo not too long ago. And this is something that we talked about on the show with him, when i think, last time he came on.
00:52:34
Speaker
I was like, I texted him and I was like, hey, I think about that panel where he's got the lightbulb and the upside-down lightbulb every single day of my life.
00:52:50
Speaker
Because that's so fucking good. Like, that's such a good piece of comics. like I cannot stop thinking about it. it's it's Comics is like the only medium where you can do that joke.
00:53:03
Speaker
Yeah. And it's such a good joke and so comics and so fucking perfect for what is happening. And I remember him talking about like how good it felt for him to come up with it.
00:53:20
Speaker
and And first of all, I like that. A lot of times I talk to ah to ah friends of ours, and ah you know we talk to Kyle, and Kyle's like, yeah, i just did it. i just I just made it.
00:53:32
Speaker
It was great. i just I just said, ah let's make a great comic, and I made it, and it's great. So hearing somebody be like, yeah, I made that, and I had to stop for second because i was really proud of it, that's refreshing.
00:53:43
Speaker
Hearing someone act like a human being and not like the machine franchise Kyle Starks...
00:53:50
Speaker
Idea machine Kyle Starks, yeah. Yeah. Can't stop him. Don't even try. ah but yeah, like, I... i like That is one of the things that I literally think about all the time when I'm thinking about comics and how they are put together and how they can convey information, which is something that i for all For all my slash our reputation as the guys who really like Marvel 2 and 1 Annual No. 7...
00:54:20
Speaker
ah which which we do, because it's great. like for all of my ah but For all of my saying that I have come to the point in my life where, like honestly, if there's not a chance Spider-Man can't show up, if there's not a chance that Spider-Man could show up in it, I don't want to read it.
00:54:42
Speaker
yeah i'm not I'm not down with ah with with Craig Thompson. and Who's that guy you like who makes those comics I don't like? i don't That could be several different people. Jimmy Corrigan guy.
00:54:54
Speaker
Chris Ware. Chris Ware. Yeah, I'm not down with Chris Ware, because fucking Spider-Man ain't never going in those. And if he is, it's going to be like a guy in a Spider-Man costume, had sex with my mom, and it made me feel bad as a child.
00:55:08
Speaker
It's literally what happens in fucking Jimmy Corrigan, except it's Batman. It does happen, yes. Anyway, for all that, I do think about comics as like a medium and as...
00:55:20
Speaker
as like the way that they convey information all the time. And that just that piece of Lomano sticks with me so much.
00:55:31
Speaker
like it's It's a great book like beyond that, but like it is one of the few comics that I think about constantly.
00:55:39
Speaker
Gonzo's great, man. Agreed. And I'm so happy for him. yeah I'm so happy that he's doing... Ninja Turtles comics and Marvel covers. and Those Ninja Turtles covers are so fucking good.
00:55:53
Speaker
yeah I knew what the answer would be, and I still asked him how much they were.
00:56:00
Speaker
but like i I'm literally sitting next to... I got a commission from Gonzo. I'm sitting next to a big ol' fucking 18x24 Goku drew. Gonzo has been kind enough to gift me gonzo has been kind enough to gift me Several pieces of art. are you well You commissioned the guts that I have.
00:56:21
Speaker
I did. um But I have a i have ah phantom drawn by Jay Gonzo on my wall right next to me.
00:56:31
Speaker
get to Like Kit Walker?
00:56:35
Speaker
ah Yeah, like Kit Walker. You're talking about the ghost who walks? That's who I'm talking about. Alright. Yeah, Lomano's great. Lomano also, like... In addition to Gonzo being like great in general and like great at design stuff, which I think is is where he truly shines at design.
00:56:58
Speaker
It's also a great comic. like it The style of it and the mood of it is perfect. it's like It's one of those things where it's like...
00:57:12
Speaker
it's It's a G.I. Joe 25th anniversary action figure. Like, that's the that's the the metaphor that I always use, right? Because those were figures that were as good as you remembered the originals being.
00:57:24
Speaker
ah By which I mean they were markedly better than the originals. La Mano del Destino is as good as you want a luchador movie to be. yeah Like, it's it's as good as an El Santo movie should be.
00:57:39
Speaker
Right. Whereas, if you actually go back and watch an El Santo movie, um, It's about 30 minutes a movie. It's about 30 minutes a movie. In about 90. Yeah. and The plot light is how I would describe this.
00:57:55
Speaker
Yeah. um Like, they will just throw in a 20-minute wrestling match into one of those movies. and like I like a 20-minute wrestling match. It's one of my favorite media.
00:58:07
Speaker
But, as far as a movie...
00:58:12
Speaker
But yes, ah like, Lamano is as good as you want that stuff to be. Like, the aesthetics of it, the design of it, the ah story being told, it's so fucking good, dude. Like I said, rules. Didn't even need to check the machine.
00:58:25
Speaker
Yeah, agreed. Find a number.
00:58:31
Speaker
ah See, here here's the thing. I also know Gonzo's going to hear this. like That's kind of the primary reason we don't rank our our own stuff. that's Yeah, that's the hard part. I mean, I agree, that's the hard part.
00:58:44
Speaker
ah But I think as long as we're fair about it, it'll be fine. It'll be good. I mean, it is it is a comic I would unreservedly recommend to anyone. Without a doubt. Yeah. ah
00:58:57
Speaker
I mean, i'm you know... And again, it's a top-heavy list. Yes, absolutely. Is it
00:59:11
Speaker
it is it better than Batman the Black Glove? Probably not. I love Batman the Black Glove. Probably not, yeah. Probably. oh Okay, well, we got Howard the Duck at 300. I would read Lomano a million times before i would read Howard the Duck.
00:59:29
Speaker
The entirety of Howard the Duck. Yeah. ah So you're saying new number 300? Exactly. i mean, at $2.99 we have Finding Batman, the Kevin Conroy story that we both, I think, really liked. And and and that is there' is very personal.
00:59:45
Speaker
Yeah. And at $2.98 we have Devil Dinosaur by Jack Kirby. It ain't no shame to not be as good as one of my favorite, like, the most underrated Kirby comic, I think. No shame at all. No shame at all. So I think $300 is a good place for it.
00:59:57
Speaker
All right. $300. That puts him above the Walt Simonson Fantastic Four.
01:00:02
Speaker
Very, uh... I mean, look... Part of the purpose of this list is to get people to read comics they might not have read before. And they should read Lomano Del Destino.
01:00:16
Speaker
I agree. Like, ah absolutely. Again, someone I was a fan of before we were friends.
01:00:24
Speaker
Okay. So Philip has ah backup for us that I think might be a little dicey for us to rank. Okay. So I'm leaving it up to you whether we rank it or not, because I know we've both read it.
Bill Mantlo's Contributions to Marvel
01:00:38
Speaker
It is Andre the Giant Life and Legend by Box Brown.
01:00:50
Speaker
I mean...
01:00:55
Speaker
oh don't you rank it, Matt? Okay, I'll rank it. I can rank it. It's pretty good.
01:01:06
Speaker
It's pretty good. it's it's It's one of those things where it's very hard in a biographical comic about a wrestler to know what legend
01:01:24
Speaker
what is legend and what is reality. I mean, it's called life and legend. So, you know, fair enough. Um, I do feel like the big thing that came out of it was the bit about, um, Andre's use of a racial slur, um, which has come directly from bad news Brown, um, which, you know, that's real.
01:01:57
Speaker
Uh,
01:01:59
Speaker
I don't remember a whole heck of a lot else of like specific details from the book, but like I remember it being pretty good. i remember it being a pretty good biographical comic.
01:02:11
Speaker
um So...
01:02:23
Speaker
Like... 950? 950?
01:02:26
Speaker
nine fifty but Somewhere around there. What do we got what do we got to nine fifty at 950? At 950, we have Batman, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. This is where my parents died, Raphael.
01:02:38
Speaker
Yes. That's, yes.
01:02:42
Speaker
i I think, it well, Seven Soldiers is at 951. You know what I hate about Batman TMNT? What's that? People adding, like whoever it was who added Cowabummer.
01:02:56
Speaker
to that scene. Oh, like the, like the fan edit. Yeah. To make it, to make something that was already like weird and kind of incongruously funny.
01:03:10
Speaker
Yeah.
01:03:12
Speaker
Uh, like, yeah. Yeah. Cause that's the thing. It's already pretty fucking funny. It's already incongruous. You don't need to add the thing that makes it like a,
01:03:27
Speaker
I don't know. Like an internet joke from 2002. Yeah. yeah Exactly. Exactly. Cowabummer is not as funny as, this is where my parents died, Raphael.
01:03:42
Speaker
Right. That's all I gotta say about that. but That's fair. um I am adjusting. I'm making it number the new number 954. Between Transformers More Than Meets the Eye Volume 1 and Stardust the Super Wizard, Destructo, and the Headhunter.
01:03:58
Speaker
don't know, man. Destructo and the Headhunter is pretty fucking good.
01:04:02
Speaker
I mean, for but you know all other things aside, that Andre the Giant book is pretty good.
01:04:10
Speaker
Alright, here's our next list. and Are we talking about it vaguely? Yes, we are.
01:04:18
Speaker
if That's all we're going to say. ah This is from Joel.
01:04:26
Speaker
ah This list. These are some comics that live in Joel's head rent-free. The first story submitted by Joel, Chris, is Incredible Hulk number 312. Monster!
01:04:38
Speaker
Which is Bill Mantlo's re-envision of the Hulk's origin. That story also has some really early Mike Mignola art. um if I gotta look this up real quick.
01:04:49
Speaker
Because if this is the the issue I'm thinking of, ah it rules. Yeah. This is ah the story that reveals that the Hulk has always been part of Bruce since he was born, more or less.
01:05:08
Speaker
And almost assuredly was the basis of ammoral Immortal Hulk. Yeah, man. yeah that Yeah, this one has... um a A doctor holding up Baby Bruce Banner like he's the Lion King?
01:05:25
Speaker
ah Absolutely it does, yes. With the Hulk in the background. It is a very, like... You ain't kidding, man. This could be... This could be ah fully an issue of Immortal Hulk.
01:05:42
Speaker
It's... Yes, it's great. Yeah, it's Mike Mignola and Jerry Talaak are the the two credited artists on it. um So it's a lot about Bruce's childhood him and ah his abusive dad, which also became the basis of the Ang Lee Hulk movie, for sure.
01:06:07
Speaker
yeah um But like every time Bruce is drawn as a little kid, there's a little green Hulk outline around him.
01:06:18
Speaker
Yeah, man. That shit's pretty good. It owns bones. ah this is and And this is all happening while in the aftermath of Hulk 300...
01:06:31
Speaker
Days of Rage, which is like one of the all-time great fight comics. ah This is when ah Hulk is exiled to a weird Steve Ditko dimension.
01:06:44
Speaker
Oh, right. Yeah, that's true is Which is also... like but There's like a tree with hands on it that are all pointing in different directions and a bunch of mirrors. And it's like... Yeah, I read this issue, but I read this issue years and years ago.
01:07:00
Speaker
I definitely read it as a reprint in something. like Not like in a trade paperback. like Reprinted in 100-page giant or something like that. A 100-page monster, as they used to make.
01:07:18
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. um But the the the thesis of the issue is essentially that the creation of the Hulk, the Gamma Bomb, just unleashed...
01:07:31
Speaker
What has been within Bruce the whole time. Yeah. Yeah. yeah that That... It's just the physicality that he gets from the Gamma Bomb.
01:07:43
Speaker
Right. And... It's wild. You know that... um You know that ah like ah post or tweet where it's like... It's a very dark joke, but it's like... Child abuse is...
01:07:59
Speaker
is low-key funny, because, like, why do you have beef with me? I'm six.
01:08:08
Speaker
Like, there's a There's a scene here where Bruce Banner's dad is, like, spiking him like a fucking football. He's a toddler.
01:08:19
Speaker
yeah And ah brian is Brian Banner is like, he's a fucking monster, I hate him. And it's like... Like, yeah, man.
01:08:31
Speaker
Like, the Brian Banner is a a great example of a villain who ah is not at all, like, there's no sympathy or nuance or subtlety with Brian Banner.
01:08:45
Speaker
Yeah. And there's another cool thing in this where every authority figure in Bruce's life, his nanny, his dad,
01:08:58
Speaker
And then eventually Thunderbolt Ross up appear as Goblin, who is in that weird Steve Ditko universe with him. Yeah. And like the representation of his rage.
01:09:15
Speaker
um i like It's great. it's like a Of all of the kind of reinterpretations of origins of this time period, which...
01:09:27
Speaker
The mid-80s were full of them. just Just nasty with them. yeah ah this was This was one of the really good ones. like i mean It's you know not Batman Year One level, exactly.
01:09:47
Speaker
It's not. It kind of is. yeah like It's not Batman Year One level. It's also not not Batman Year One. like It's not Batman Year One level because Dave Mazkelli didn't draw it.
01:09:59
Speaker
But Mike Mignola drew it. um Mike Mignola drew it. Mike Mignola and another guy. And another guy, yeah. ah But you can like you can see a little bit of Mignola, especially on that cover. like You can see the Mignola that's coming.
01:10:16
Speaker
the the On the cover and then... In the, edge again, the weird Steve Ditko universe, ah there's definitely Mignola to come, yeah. the The page where, the again, where the Doctor's holding him up and the the Hulk is like...
01:10:35
Speaker
looking over it. a First of all, that's as Immortal Hulk as shit. like Yes. Oh, that's what I was saying earlier. is like I read this years and years ago when I was really getting into Bill Matlow like in yeah in the mid-2000s.
01:10:50
Speaker
I haven't really revisited it since. I never made the connection that this is Immortal Hulk. Yeah. Absolutely. um But also, that page is like very Mignola.
01:11:03
Speaker
Like, what Mignola would eventually become. It's got the same kind of moodiness and everything. And I'll tell you what else is great about this issue. Hit me.
01:11:14
Speaker
Secret Wars 2 continues in it. Oh, yeah! That's right, the fucking Beyonder shows up. Oh, right, that's right, he does. The Beyonder's like, damn, that's crazy.
01:11:26
Speaker
Yeah. Crazy that happened to you. Yeah, I'm sorry that happened, or happy for you. Oh yeah, the the Beyonder with his fucking aha hair. Yeah.
01:11:38
Speaker
People are mean about the Beyonder's hair, but you know what? it's He just looks like 1995 Superman. curlier. looks like 1985 Superman.
01:11:49
Speaker
it's curlier he looks like nineteen eighty five European pop star is what he looks like. Fair. Fair. Fine.
01:12:00
Speaker
um No, this issue rules. like Everybody should read this issue. It is a great example of like like particularly for nineteen eighty for Marvel like late Bronze age Marvel,
01:12:15
Speaker
like it that That is a crowded field of great fucking comics. Yeah, no kidding. Yeah. ah Like, that that might have been... ah we have statistically and mathematically proven that 2005 to 2006 was the worst time to be reading comics.
01:12:33
Speaker
True. And that's the reason that the you and I and several of our cohorts were just fucking miserable for years. Yeah. oh Were you about to say 1985 to 1986 was one of the best times? I mean, 85 to 88 is pretty fucking good.
01:12:51
Speaker
Pretty good, yeah. I mean, aside from Crisis. but Aside from Crisis, but like, immediate post-Crisis stuff? Yeah, like the immediate post-Crisis stuff is the best reboot ever done, possibly. Yeah.
01:13:06
Speaker
Yeah. Man of Steel. Yeah, it's great. Yeah. Like... ah Your favorite guy. i mean, it's real sad what happened to old JB, but that comic's pretty good. It's real sad what happened to a lot of people who made really great comics 1985 to 1988. Yeah, I mean, ah genuinely real sad what happened to Bill Mantlo. Genuinely very sad what happened to Bill Mantlo. But, like, yeah, like... Bill Mantlo and Mark Grunewald... The...
01:13:37
Speaker
I don't want to say unsung heroes. Metlo, I think, more more so than Grunewald. um And, you know, ah if you don't know, Metlo was rollerblading and got hit by a car and yeah was, you know, like, ah needed, like, round-the-clock care for decades.
01:13:59
Speaker
Years and years and years, yeah. yeah ah But, like, those two dudes holding it down. Hold it down. Everybody talks about Claremont, Byrne, Simonson, Miller.
01:14:12
Speaker
I guess Bill Mantlo still needs that. ah He's still alive. Yes. Everybody talks about the big guys – yeah ah like everybody talks about like the the the big guys But man, Bill Matlow had so much good stuff. like Like, one of the best Bronze Age writers.
01:14:32
Speaker
and so it's It's interesting who still gets their flowers. And I'm not saying they never do, but they they do much less.
01:14:46
Speaker
You know? like yeah Like Miller and Byrne and...
01:14:55
Speaker
ah more... And there are probably a handful more names from the mid-80s. You've got your Brian Bolands. Yeah, but for pure art, Brian Boland.
01:15:09
Speaker
ah Simonson, obviously. Yeah, Simonson. But I feel like Simonson is is undersung, too, by anybody but us. Everybody knows Alan. Like, Alan Moore was an answer in the New York Times crossword the other day.
01:15:23
Speaker
Everybody knows Alan Moore. Everybody knows Alan Moore. Yeah. Comics people know Simonson. Yeah, that's true. if If you're into comics, you know Simonson. But real heads know Bill Mantlo.
01:15:34
Speaker
Comics people know Mantlo and Grunewald, but, like, the average person has never heard those names. Yeah. You know what I mean? yeah like like
01:15:47
Speaker
I guess some people know who Bill Mantlo is now because they know he created Rocket Raccoon. But like besides that, you never hear about Bill Mantlo. You never hear about Mark Grunewald. Unless you're reading my blog in the mid-2000s.
01:16:01
Speaker
You heard about Bill Mantlo a lot. like Marv Wolfman is somebody you probably know. Lynn Ween is maybe somebody you probably know. I'm talking about but the creator of Wolverine.
01:16:14
Speaker
I'm talking about the creator of Wolverine, along along with the with Roy, apparently. um But, like yeah, Matlow and Grunewald, I feel like, are the two who like really did like big, important stuff, who who who don't get their props.
01:16:34
Speaker
Yeah, man. any on you know You know who else is in that in in that crew?
01:16:40
Speaker
Tell me. Larry Hama.
01:16:44
Speaker
i Larry's still around and people know of him I don't know. But yeah but but okay but look, Bill Mantlo, long run on Hulk. But like also, 80 issues of Rom Space Knight, a comic that shouldn't have been good.
01:17:02
Speaker
Like, long ass Rom. Larry, 150 issues of like the bestselling book of the eighty s for marvel One of.
01:17:15
Speaker
One of. Certainly one that was very important to the company's bottom line. Oh, you know who else you know you know who else is in that category? I could list names all day, Matt. but i I know, but this will be my last one.
01:17:27
Speaker
But we talked about him recently. That's Bill Messner-Lobes. Bill Messner-Lobes, yeah. Who also like fell on some really hard times. Yeah. oh it like I believe he was doing...
01:17:41
Speaker
I believe is doing okay now, but I hope so. Yeah, man. Mark Wade's favorite flash writer. Yeah. Fucking great. Yeah, man.
01:17:55
Speaker
Archie Goodwin. Archie Goodwin. Pretty well known. feel like. Again, real heads know Archie Goodwin.
01:18:04
Speaker
Real heads, Matt. Yeah. All right. Yeah. um Alright, where are we going to put this Hulk story? like Is this like a Dark Horse high ranker?
01:18:16
Speaker
Because this story does own bones, actually. yeah no i mean like i was looking to see if we had Days of Rage on here. um And I don't think we do. That's Hulk 300. um But I did find Immortal Hulk at number 57.
01:18:31
Speaker
That's probably better than this. That is a unquestionably A 50-issue riff on this comic.
01:18:44
Speaker
Hey, man. Hey, man. Can I sidebar with you real quick? Yeah, yeah. Hit me. What if my Mignola drew Immortal Hulk? Fuck, dude.
01:18:53
Speaker
That shit would have ripped. that I mean, that shit does rip already. it rips already, but like the one reason not to recommend Immortal Hulk is... who the artist is.
01:19:04
Speaker
We have nearly 500 entries on the list before we get to the next Hulk story, which is, and now the Wolverine, which we have at 548. I mean, this is absolutely better than that.
01:19:16
Speaker
Yeah. And not as important in the history of comics, but more important in the history of the Hulk. But maybe ought to be.
01:19:29
Speaker
i mean, like like, not as important because Wolverine is like arguably the third most important character in Marvel Comics history. yeah Yeah. But like for the Hulk, this is a very important story.
01:19:47
Speaker
It certainly informed Hulk comics ever since.
01:19:55
Speaker
Not just Immortal Hulk, but like that whole fucking Peter David run.
01:20:01
Speaker
don't like that Peter David run. I tried. I tried, man. and Just don't. He's not he's not um he's not my guy. He's not your guy. He's not my guy.
01:20:12
Speaker
you know I was hot and cold on the Peter David Hulk run, but like there's some good stuff in there. But like it owes a lot to this. yeah um so like I don't think this cracks the top 100, maybe, but like it might be in the top 200.
01:20:32
Speaker
What do we have at number 200? At number 200, we have The Seal Men's War on Santa Claus by Jack Kirby. One of the few Jack Kirby Christmas comics.
01:20:42
Speaker
Yeah. Okay, I'm going to be real with you. Hit me. This is a better story than that. Yeah, I would agree.
01:20:54
Speaker
At 190, we have Man of Steel.
01:20:59
Speaker
yeah
01:21:03
Speaker
You know, maybe Man of Steel only ranks that high because it was only a few years later that John Byrne got lost, yeah. Tragically disappeared in the Bermuda Triangle and never got to see the invention of the internet.
01:21:17
Speaker
And never made a similar reimagining of the origin of Spider-Man. Yeah. Yeah.
01:21:26
Speaker
Yeah.
01:21:29
Speaker
met Man of Steel, pretty good, though. Man Steel, pretty good. It might be John Byrne's best solo comic. i i don't love FF run like a lot of people do.
01:21:48
Speaker
It's pretty good. But the Doom stuff's pretty good. The Galactus stuff's pretty good. Eh, Galactus stuff's okay. I think the Byrne run on FF's pretty good.
01:22:01
Speaker
it's Look, again, i don't like it as much as it everybody else. yeah i like I like that Superman wrong
01:22:12
Speaker
run. Post-Crisis Superman is, I think, the best Superman had been in a long time. Yeah, I mean, well, who needed that more than Superman? There was so much baggage who needed that more than superman i mean like there was so much bagage Alright, now we're getting into stuff that I don't agree with, Matt.
01:22:36
Speaker
All they had to do was write good ones. They just stopped writing good ones in like the mid-70s. I mean, sure. Yeah. ah Yeah, fair. Anyway, ah that I think it's... Alright.
01:22:51
Speaker
It's probably not as good as Starman. The entirety of Starman. But I'd put it above the Tom King vision. Wow, okay. A book I still have not read.
01:23:03
Speaker
it's ah yeah It's one of the better Tom King books, but the further i away I get from it, the more I'm like, was it good? but i I've gone back and looked at Mr. Miracle, and it's good.
01:23:15
Speaker
Yeah, I think Vision is still good, but ah but it's very so it's very in the Tom King vein of like, this isn't really the character. You have to consider this as a comic about like something else.
01:23:29
Speaker
Then yeah the character is, you know them. um All right, I'm saying this is the new number 192. I think that's ah that's a great place for it. If you have not read this issue, go get this issue. like it's yeah It's a good one.
01:23:42
Speaker
I know it got reprinted a lot. Yeah. um
01:23:48
Speaker
I'm going to say Bill Mantlo and Mike Mignola in the parentheses of this.
Secret Wars 2 and Suicide Squad Intense Talks
01:23:56
Speaker
Also, don't forget, Secret Wars 2 does continue in this issue. It does continue. That's that's worth remembering, yeah.
01:24:02
Speaker
And also, go read number 300, too. like That is such a different issue to also be a Bill Met, like to be the same guy. like Because that issue is just dudes getting their asses beat.
01:24:15
Speaker
It rules. ah Next on Joel's list is Suicide Squad Volume 1, Number 4, William Hell's Overture, where Deadshot goes undercover to take down a racist piece of shit.
01:24:27
Speaker
Do we not have, like... Okay, we've got Suicide Squad 5-7, and just got kind of
01:24:39
Speaker
we've got the yeah we've just we've just got kind of like
01:24:47
Speaker
different arcs here and there. yeah Yeah. I mean, that is ah that is a single issue story. um It's good. It's really fucking good. It's really good, yeah. Hey, you know those late 80s DC comics?
01:24:59
Speaker
That shit's good as hell. Man, really hitting us really hit us in the sweet spot. I'll tell you what, John Ostrander's another one of those guys. He is, absolutely.
01:25:10
Speaker
Like, the people who know, definitely know,
01:25:16
Speaker
With Ostrander? Yeah. But, for sure. For sure. Yeah, like i mean, a guy that was, like, all over DC Comics for, like, 15 years, and then people seemed to immediately forget about.
01:25:31
Speaker
Which is bonkers. Well, it's I think part of it is that Ostrander, like, by the late 90s, maybe, had some mediocre comics that, like...
01:25:45
Speaker
I mean, that Martian Manhunter runs good. And that Spectre runs good. I'm not saying all of them are mediocre. But I'm saying like there were just a few here and there. And so, like I remember like seeing Ostrander's name on a book and being like, I don't know.
01:26:01
Speaker
And that was that was before I went back and read Suicide Squad. all right I will admit, that is also, i have i also would had that exact experience. Because i was like man, who is this guy who wrote like fucking Checkmate and Manhunter?
01:26:13
Speaker
Right, yeah. um And then it was like then I read Suicide Squad and I was like, oh, this is one of the greatest comics writers to ever live. Yeah. There was just like a run of maybe some some of his not best work.
01:26:29
Speaker
ah Certainly by the late 90s, I would say. Yeah. oh This, I will say, this issue's good.
01:26:44
Speaker
It's not great. in the like Look, do we support Deadshot taking down ah fucking Nazi?
01:26:55
Speaker
Yes, absolutely. yeah ah A crypto-fascist politician? Absolutely. ah maybe Who wears slates ends with them revealing that like... actually this white supremacist guy is this this conservative politician oh yeah He's a diesel a bad guy. And then his supporters are like,
01:27:19
Speaker
bo And not, that's fine.
01:27:25
Speaker
But you know, I believe a man can fly. And that a billionaire can be good.
01:27:32
Speaker
that Only in comics. Only in comics. But like... ah but like
01:27:39
Speaker
this this is a I feel like this is a baseline Ostrander-Luke McDonald issue of Suicide Squad, in that it's like an but it's not an A+.
01:27:52
Speaker
It's not quite the book it would be yet. I mean, I don't even think it's as good as the immediately preceding issues, which ah like the the first like the first arc of Suicide Squad also kicks ass.
01:28:08
Speaker
Uh, they fight a very unfortunately named supervillain team. But it does end up being like completely brutal. Like, uh, like, uh, dead shot, ah get shot in the back.
01:28:27
Speaker
Yeah. But it's like a, it's a, it's a, it's a ruse. It's a fake out. Yeah. Yeah. But it's like a fucking, it's a squib. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, But, like, yeah, man, it's pretty good.
01:28:41
Speaker
pretty good It's a pretty good issue. There's there's better Suicide Squad, I think. For sure. I don't think it's as good as... um We have Mission to Moscow 484. That's the story that comes immediately after. That's better.
01:28:57
Speaker
ah We have the story with Captain Boomerang and Zombies, which is actually really good, at 502.
01:29:07
Speaker
We have the Apocalypse Story at 592. What were men what are we thinking when we ranked that one that low? That's a great story. ah
01:29:16
Speaker
yeah like i mean i don't I honestly don't think it's as good. We have we have Suicide Squad number 10 at 189, and then the Justice League International crossover at 177. It's definitely not as good as those. Those are like the two best stories of the run.
01:29:33
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, I think it's probably below the Apocalypse story. i think it's more yeah I don't think it's as good as as any of what we have on the list. So so im um i'm I'm thinking it might be in the 600s or the 700s, perhaps.
01:29:48
Speaker
Yeah. um
01:29:51
Speaker
Let's see. At 650, we've got the Gun Show ah on Fire comic. It's a good comic.
01:30:04
Speaker
Good comic.
01:30:06
Speaker
That dog thinks it's fine. That dog thinks it's fine. It's not fine. No. ah
01:30:19
Speaker
ah then um I'm looking at the list. are That comic's better than this. Yes. Yeah, I'd say 675, we have Amalgam Spiderboy. That's a pretty good comic, actually. That's pretty good.
01:30:33
Speaker
As a single issue, I would rather read that. Okay. At 700, we have The Coming of Squirrel Girl. That's Squirrel Girl's first appearance. I think this could probably go above that. I think you're wrong.
01:30:48
Speaker
You think I'm wrong about the first appearance of Squirrel Girl? I absolutely think you're wrong about the first appearance of Squirrel Girl. By Steve Ditko. Hell yes. Okay, sure. ah At 725, we have Squadron Supreme. Are we the only two people in comics with the guts?
01:31:08
Speaker
With the guts to say the first appearance Squirrel Girl is better than painting the date Paris? Listen. Listen. it's but It's important and good, the first appearance Squirrel Girl.
01:31:21
Speaker
Um... At 7.25, we have Squadron Supreme, Death of a Universe. That's better than this. Okay. At 7.50, we have Gen 13, Grunge the Movie.
01:31:37
Speaker
we're We're on par. We're on par. I would rather read that than this, but that's i I love Adam Warren. um Another great single issue, Animal Man number five. I think that's better. That's better, yeah. ah I could put this above Punisher Kill Crew, though, at 756. Yeah, I think that's good. That puts it under the Steve Orlando, Riley Rossimo, Martian Manhunter series, which was very, very good.
01:32:11
Speaker
that That seems like a good spot. set The 756 is suicide squad Number four? um Number four? Number four. William Hell's Overture.
01:32:25
Speaker
yeah also Also, William Hell is a bad name for a character. Yeah.
01:32:33
Speaker
I mean, it's, yeah, yeah. it's It's not great.
01:32:38
Speaker
it's It's so he can dress that way, the way he dresses. And shoot an apple off Captain Boomerang's head. Yeah. like William Tell. But he's William Hell. Because he's bad.
01:32:49
Speaker
That part's... The story's fine. That's actually bad.
01:32:55
Speaker
ah Finally on Joel's list is Action Comics number 289.
Superman's Awkward Courtship Stories
01:33:02
Speaker
Superman's Super Courtship. Oh boy.
01:33:07
Speaker
i cannot remember who he is courting in in that story. ah This is a story where... About halfway through, Superman says ah he wants to marry someone just like his cousin. Oh, yeah.
01:33:32
Speaker
That's unfortunate. Yeah. That's... People yelled at me a lot on like on my comics blog when I would say that that it was weird that comics in the Silver Age kept having cousin stuff happen?
01:33:58
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Like, there's an issue where
01:34:05
Speaker
Jimmy Olsen and Lucy Lane's kid marries Superman and Lois Lane's kid.
01:34:18
Speaker
And I was like, I believe this to be a problem.
01:34:23
Speaker
Because they were they are first cousins.
01:34:28
Speaker
and And people got real salty at me about that, Matt, which I did not think that was an un... john I thought that was a pretty safe statement to make, even in these woke times.
01:34:40
Speaker
so but Yeah. yeah and flu Okay, so this story is the second, well, I guess the third story in this issue.
01:34:52
Speaker
Fourth story in this issue, excuse me, because there's a one-page Ollie story and a one-page Little Pete story. um But this is credited as a Supergirl story.
01:35:04
Speaker
Yeah, it's ah it' it is a... She's certainly the the star, and I believe, yeah, she's got the... She actually has the title of billing. um And it's...
01:35:18
Speaker
it It's... Well done, Supergirl. Thanks. Someday when you're married, it'll be your wife who will do the house cleaning. Yeah.
01:35:29
Speaker
Married? Not I. My duty to protect to Earth against villainous perils comes first. I'll never marry. Yeah, the the kind the conceit of this story is that Supergirl is really worried because she thinks Superman is never going to get married.
01:35:45
Speaker
And she doesn't want him to be an unhappy bachelor forever. Yeah. Maybe if I played Cupid, fixed it so he met the right girl, he'd get married, and not live unhappily ever after, like that sorrow for but sorrowful bachelor like we saw in that movie.
01:36:02
Speaker
What movie? What movie, Supergirl?
01:36:08
Speaker
I guess she's just watching... she just like a movie? She's just watching a movie on TV. She's watching a movie on TV, and... the It's about a guy losing his true love.
01:36:22
Speaker
How pitiful. The bachelor in that story delayed proposing too long. His sweetheart has married another. Now he'll never know true happiness. ah So Supergirl, as anyone would, goes back in time to ancient Troy to try to recruit Helen of Troy for Superman to date.
01:36:42
Speaker
Who, to be fair, is a babe. Yeah, absolute babe. ah You know... Wars over her.
01:36:52
Speaker
Yeah. um That doesn't work out. No. ah And ah because they do some stuff and Helen of Troy gets really jealous that everyone's paying attention to Supergirl.
01:37:04
Speaker
Right. you know, women. Right. So they return to 1960. This is a Jerry Siegel joint. it's There's no credit. Uh...
01:37:15
Speaker
I mean, we can find out. We can probably find out. ah So they go back to 1962, and Supergirl goes, goofed, but am I downhearted? No. Will I try again? Yes.
01:37:27
Speaker
So then she goes to the future he to try to set Superman up with, I want to say, Saturn Girl. Well, here's an easy way to tell Matt. Does she have a picture of Saturn on her outfit?
01:37:46
Speaker
ah Yes, she does. Yes, she does. Okay, yes. So it is Saturn Woman. Saturn Woman. Oh, right. That's right. They had to go a thousand and ten years in the future so that these would all be adults.
01:37:59
Speaker
Yeah.
01:38:03
Speaker
But that doesn't that doesn't work either. Yeah, they also specifically go to Christmas in the future.
01:38:10
Speaker
Which is, the way, that wasn't a joke. They literally go 1,010 years in the future. Yeah. And so Superman flies off to a distant solar system where he says, the second plot planet route revolving around that orange sun is Starrell.
01:38:28
Speaker
Can I find a girl there as wonderful as Supergirl? I'll soon know.
01:38:34
Speaker
um And he finds Superwoman.
01:38:38
Speaker
Who just looks like Supergirl. But she's wearing a like a green and white costume. got a green and white costume. She's on the cover. Her name's Luma Lanai, which is great.
01:38:50
Speaker
Why do these letters haunt me so?
01:38:54
Speaker
ah But she has to leave. Every Superman writer should introduce at least one character. character with LL initials. that is That is the rule I have for comics.
01:39:08
Speaker
I think that's a good rule, yeah. If you introduce a new character and they don't have LL initials and you're writing a Superman comic, ah then you better have already done it.
01:39:19
Speaker
Let's see. Jerry Siegel is the credited writer of Superman's Super Courtship, according to dc the DC database. ah Anyway,
01:39:30
Speaker
um
01:39:32
Speaker
Superwoman has to leave because you know how like you know how Earth's yellow sun makes Superman powerful? um They do the opposite to Superwoman.
01:39:44
Speaker
They make her weak. yeah Her planet has an orange sun. So she has to leave. Yeah. And ah finally, just because she she messed up three times...
01:39:59
Speaker
Linda Danvers is just like, I guess I'll stop trying, even though Cleopatra's hot too. and that is the end of the story. on the panel The panel where he tells her, if I ever did marry, it would be to someone super and lovable like you.
01:40:20
Speaker
We can't marry because we're cousins, though. Cousins can marry in certain countries here on Earth. We're both from the planet Krypton, where marriage of cousins was unlawful. And it's like... youbi oh The only thing stopping us is the law.
01:40:35
Speaker
You didn't have... The law of a planet that doesn't exist anymore?
01:40:41
Speaker
You didn't have to to do that. You didn't have to put that in there. You didn't have to have Superman caring you know essentially carrying around the age of consent laws.
01:40:52
Speaker
yeah Well, I mean, look, if you if you have them talking about how much Superman wants to marry someone like Supergirl, then you've got to address it at least. Yeah, and then you and then you introduce a character looks just like Supergirl, but like she's player two.
01:41:09
Speaker
Yeah. um You could just not. That's true. Because you could have just... You could have just had her go, like, you could have had all the stuff with Superwoman and ah at the end, and not had her look like Supergirl, and not had Supergirl, not had Superman say, I would marry someone like you. But we can't do that, because even though it is legal in some places, it is it was against the law on Krypton. That's where we're from.
01:41:38
Speaker
Uh... You could have just had Superwoman have red hair. Yeah, man. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. also Also, this story completely ignores Superman's three actual love interests.
01:41:56
Speaker
I mean, they're all mentioned, but Supergirl's like, oh, he's he he's waiting too long to marry them.
01:42:09
Speaker
Also, everyone's obsessed with marriage. and I mean, like, it's the Silver Age, I know. It's 1962, but... 1962, yeah. I mean, I guess it would be even weirder if they if you just did a fine and replace and swapped marriage out for fucking.
01:42:26
Speaker
I'll never fuck Supergirl. That would put that would i certainly... My duty to protect the Earth comes comes first. That would certainly... And I don't come at all. Mom, Dad, I'm worried.
01:42:36
Speaker
It doesn't look as if Superman is ever going to fuck.
01:42:41
Speaker
If I was to fuck someone.
01:42:49
Speaker
the fucking the The fucking Danvers is in this issue gotta be like, we got a we got a weird one. When we went to that orphanage, we got a weird one.
01:43:01
Speaker
Can't she find any other hobbies?
01:43:06
Speaker
Like, ah start collecting stamps or something. Yeah, hey, man, like, look, I and i know the Silver Age DC universe in our world, but I do feel like there was some stuff in 1962 that was going down.
01:43:21
Speaker
Yeah. That maybe could have needed a little attention.
Criticism of Silver Age Comics' Themes
01:43:26
Speaker
I will say, I do like the the splash page, ah with the title page of this story, where...
01:43:33
Speaker
ah It's very much not happening in this issue, but it's Cupid ah aiming at Superman as he ah as he puts the giant key in the Fortress of Solitude.
01:43:46
Speaker
yeah ah World's Mightiest Man, eh? You're invulnerable to everything except my arrows! oh that's it That's all a metaphor.
01:43:58
Speaker
Right. love that. We didn't mention that the fucking Legion of Superheroes part of the story ends with fucking Lightning Lab being like, hey, can you stop me out with my wife?
01:44:14
Speaker
But I guess he's Lightning Dude by now. Why didn't I try to kindle a spark between Superman and Phantom Woman instead? She's probably single. Hey, fuck you, Linda. Yeah, Linda, ease Fuck you, Kara Zor-El.
01:44:29
Speaker
Come on. up Phantom Woman's... Why do you think Phantom Woman's single?
01:44:39
Speaker
Great question. what's wrong like What's wrong with Phantom Woman? Anyway. This story's whack. This story is absolutely, like... Yeah, it's absolutely whack. It's... This is what... A story that, like... It's not... It's not poorly written. Have you looked at have you looked at the cover...
01:44:59
Speaker
Yeah. Because, okay, first of all, yeah you too have to do this there's two thought bubbles, a Superman thought bubble and a Supergirl thought bubble. And it's like Superman and Superwoman embracing as Supergirl's watching them.
01:45:18
Speaker
Yeah, Linda, it is strange. Yeah, Linda. every girl i've ever liked has had the initials l l low slain lot of length lori lamire now i'm going to marry this now i'm going to fuck this superwo whose name on her world is luma li i and then supergirl's thought bubble says i'm so happy for superman but how strange is that the woman he is finally going to wed it looks exactly as i will when i grow up yeah ah yeah linda it is strange yeah linda Yeah, Linda Lee.
01:45:50
Speaker
Thank God she was adopted.
01:45:54
Speaker
Thank God she's Linda Danvers now. um this is This story is one that I would point to as like what people think Silver Age stories were like. Yeah, it's so funny that just a few moments ago you were saying like they just stopped making good ones.
01:46:10
Speaker
They were making some bad ones back then, too. Yeah, but I mean, they were also making good ones. They were making good ones, but they made some bad ones. They they just ah did a... like ah ah like McFarlane Toys did their like little announcement slate, I think at WonderCon.
01:46:26
Speaker
And they're making a fucking Lionhead Superman figure. That's pretty good. and boy, you know you know I'm a needle lion head Superman figure. That's pretty good. but They need to make a figure of Superman's new power.
01:46:44
Speaker
ah very little Little verses of himself come out of his hands? Yeah, man. Where he shoots a little guy out. Yeah. yeah Sometimes shoot Superman gets a new superpower and it's to shoot a little guy out.
01:46:56
Speaker
There's a little guy that comes out of his hands. Yeah. And then Superman gets mad and tries to murder the little guy. ah what a great story.
01:47:07
Speaker
Yeah, that story's great. um This story, i mean I mean, look, it's not technically poorly written, and it's... I actually like the art a lot. This isn't Schaffenberger, is it? this is No, I just looked up who it was. Hang on. i it was It's not one of the artists I'm most familiar with from the from the era. Yeah, it's...
01:47:30
Speaker
It is Jim Mooney. Jim Mooney. Yeah. ah Jim Mooney, like a third second or third tier Silver Age Superman artist, but a good one. um So yeah, it's not thought technically bad, but there's a lot in this that they didn't have to do.
01:47:51
Speaker
Very much true, yes. it's This story, you didn't have to do it. It's unfortunate that Jim Moody is Jim Moody interior art when the cover is a Kurt Swan, so the cover looks five times better.
01:48:08
Speaker
Yeah. i mean like Jim Moody's not bad, but yes. He ain't no Kurt Swan. Yeah. i mean i'm But I'm a guy. ah people People got mad at me for another reason.
01:48:20
Speaker
Because I think Kurt Schaffenberger was better than Kurt Swan. button
01:48:27
Speaker
But, you know, that's neither here nor there. yeah They're both better than Jim Mooney. ah
01:48:34
Speaker
At 1500, we have Batman War Games. Is this better than that? um Also, real quick, the fact that Luma Lani's... costume is green and white and her S is in a circle.
01:48:51
Speaker
Yeah. is like It's given me real Scrooge McDuck vibes.
01:48:57
Speaker
I can see that. she herself, but like definitely like if Scrooge was going to create a human woman, this is what she would look like. Yeah, if Scrooge had um a bag of money that became a person.
01:49:12
Speaker
That became a lady who looks just like me when I grow up.
01:49:17
Speaker
And I feel like this Superwoman design never came back, right? like the like Every time there's been a Superwoman since this... Wait, how did Superwoman look in All-Star?
01:49:30
Speaker
She didn't look like this, right? when When Lois had powers? No, Lois had a ah blue and red and yellow outfit. Blue and red and yellow. Like, most versions Superwoman since. I think she might have had the round...
01:49:41
Speaker
logo with the S, but that I can't remember for sure. I felt like this got referenced somehow again. i mean, yeah, it's it absolutely has been referenced, but Lumalini, I don't think, made a lot of appearances. Returns, yeah. yeah I don't know, man.
01:50:01
Speaker
It's not bad.
01:50:06
Speaker
It's kind of bad. it's I would say it's pretty bad. Yeah. I mean, it's not... It ain't fucking Marville, you know?
01:50:18
Speaker
It ain't like Dirt Worst. But it ain't good.
01:50:25
Speaker
Lumilini is in the Kingdom Planet Krypton Volume 1 and JSA Classified Number 3. And I think everything else is reprints.
01:50:38
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, yeah but that tracks. Okay, she had the circle Yeah. yeah But that was the only real similarity of design.
01:50:53
Speaker
ah i don't know. i said is Batman War Games. Is this above that? I think it's better than War Games. Okay. War Games is kind of like a bad, boring story, and also Stephanie Brown gets tortured death with a power drill, and Leslie Tompkins lets her die.
01:51:11
Speaker
Yeah, that's that's worse. Okay. 1450 is Live, Cree, or Die, which is just kind of a boring story. that's That's when Iron Man...
01:51:25
Speaker
ah When Iron Man commits an extrajudicial killing, right? Captain America gets mad about it, yeah. Captain America quits the Avengers. Yeah. No, that's that's a different story.
01:51:36
Speaker
that's This is a Mark Waid music story.
01:51:40
Speaker
But it is a similar like crossover among different issues. The Iron Man committing the extrajudicial killing happened in... That's Operation Galactic Storm.
01:51:52
Speaker
That is Operation Galactic Storm. Live Kree or Die is a similar story, though, to that. I'm forgetting the exact details, but yeah. I mean, i think it's better than all these. right.
01:52:05
Speaker
better than all of these all right
01:52:11
Speaker
Uh, 1400 is Team America. It ain't that good. It ain't as good as Team in America. Team America's actually pretty fucking good. Team America's about four dudes are good at riding motorcycles who become one dude that's four times better at riding motorcycles.
01:52:25
Speaker
Uh, better worse than Street Fighter 1 through 3, the comic they had to apologize for. Better. Okay. Better. they had to met They had to apologize for that one. Uh, better than X-Men number 40 with the Frankenstein android?
01:52:41
Speaker
Another similarly just kind of like bad story from that era. I will say, i'm going to regret this. Okay.
01:52:52
Speaker
But i'll I'll say this right now.
01:52:56
Speaker
There's no Jerry Siegel Superman story that's worse than any Roy Thomas X-Men story. I would put this above the New 52 Secret Six also, then.
01:53:08
Speaker
Yeah, Santa Claus vs. Illuminati is kind of nothing. Kind of nothing. This is better than the Slug. It's... Really? The Slug's kind of bad, dude.
01:53:20
Speaker
Better than a Groonie? Alright. Matt, you know you were there. The Groonies are... The Groonies have peaks and valleys.
01:53:31
Speaker
It ain't better than the Spider-Man wedding issue. I mean, it's got its problems, but like it ain't better than that. mean, it takes less time to read than the Spider-Man wedding. That's fair. And there's less...
01:53:43
Speaker
ah feet like ah Talk about smoking, I guess, but I still think the wedding issue is better. Alright, alright. Fair enough. This is a new number 1405.
01:53:56
Speaker
I would still recommend reading it. It's whack, though. it's I mean, it is
Milestone of 1600 Stories on List
01:54:01
Speaker
whack. Okay, it's called Superman Super Courtship. It is not the only story in Action Comics number 289. Right.
01:54:09
Speaker
right ah So, I'm just going to put Action Comics number 289 in the parentheses.
01:54:19
Speaker
Okay. We do not have time for an entire list. Another entire list. We did surpass 1,600 stories, by the way.
01:54:31
Speaker
Hey, look at that. We are now at 1601 stories. um So I will start... Okay, ah this one's a lot to get into anyway.
01:54:43
Speaker
These are... Okay. Brad Lathspell. don't like your tone of voice right now, Matt. Well, this is a lot to explain and get into. So I guess I will explain this and then maybe we can deliberate on whether...
01:55:01
Speaker
ah we rank these between now and the next special.
01:55:08
Speaker
All right. this is from This is from Brad, the dope dog. And ah it is Okay.
01:55:19
Speaker
i'll just i' I'll read what Brad says here. Back in June of 2023, I had just smoked a bowl of what we call the Matt D, the Grassman Express, When I decided to get some one-page exercises in surrealist formalism that evoke both Little Nemo's adventures in Slumberland and Crazy Cat.
01:55:38
Speaker
Shout out to Crazy Cat fan Benito. I apologize for saying you drink iced tea like a Yankee that one time. Paul Kirchner's dope writer from the pages of Hive Times Magazine.
01:55:50
Speaker
Will you appreciate the illustrative skill and imaginative use of the medium, or be put off by the incessant weed references and mediocre punchlines? I don't know, but I do know that they're a page each, and you can read them all in like a minute, and they are definitely within the purview of the list.
01:56:04
Speaker
Okay, so, Brad is presenting these as single-page stories and not comic strips. i I'll tell you now, I'm not going to like them, and I don't want to read them.
01:56:19
Speaker
them. they are They are from the pages of High Times Magazine. yeah you could not have You could not have sold me on this being less something I want to experience.
01:56:32
Speaker
I just forwarded you the email. Brad thankfully included... ah The images of the three comics. um They're called Dope Rider's Reality Show, Dope Rider's Time Frame Adventure, and Dope Rider Moons the Fourth Wall.
01:56:51
Speaker
Dope Rider is a guy a cowboy outfit. He's wearing cowboy clothes. i would hes i It's weird that that's where you started.
01:57:01
Speaker
I would not have started the description there. But he's a skeleton. There we go. Dios mio. Dios mio. He's an Escalato. Correct. As as ah my friend Sean Gerard said, are but fuck, was it a Sean Gerard joke or was it a joke Sean Gerard just really liked? Either way, um it was from a bit where people were like photoshopping joke magazine covers, and the magazine was, oh fuck, Skeletons, the magazine for people being chased by skeletons.
01:57:37
Speaker
That's pretty good. That's a very funny joke.
01:57:41
Speaker
I read this first one and I'm exhausted, Matt.
01:57:48
Speaker
From one page. From one page.
01:57:52
Speaker
I mean, theyre like here's here's what sucks about this. it the The art is actually good. It's ah it's
01:58:03
Speaker
it's weirdly if there's an axis... of Michael Kupperman to Jeff Darrow, it's right in the middle of that axis, which is a very weirdly specific axis. That's true. um Here's what sucks is, ah like, the funniest line in this is the antepenultimate line.
01:58:25
Speaker
Because what happens is ah Dope Rider, who's a skeleton a cowboy outfit, is lost in time and goes into his shack and And he sees a dope writer from another time right frame and there's four of them.
01:58:42
Speaker
And one of them goes, Hey, I bet the four of us can move that fridge out back. That's funny. That's funny. Um, and then there's another line that's not as funny.
01:58:53
Speaker
Yeah. And then the arm doesn't have weed. Yeah. Um, the, the not as funny line is, and or maybe start a boy band. Yeah. Um,
01:59:05
Speaker
here's my here's I am afraid that these are comic strips. You tried to argue with me that that Superman thing wasn't a comic strip. Okay.
01:59:17
Speaker
But that was because we didn't know if it was sequ we didn't know if the if one continued to the other. If they were just single-page contained stories, right? Yeah.
01:59:29
Speaker
these almost assuredly continue from one page to the next in the style of a comic strip. I don't think they they do. that this one So you think he's just lost in time?
01:59:47
Speaker
because the other two strips do not continue from that or end in a way that leads to that. Okay, but the second one is Dope Rider with a character who we've never seen and we don't know his name and his name isn't given.
02:00:07
Speaker
And they're riding horses. One's riding, well, the other guy's riding to like a mule ah and Dope Rider's riding a skeleton horse. And like, I feel like that clearly continues from a previous.
02:00:22
Speaker
No, I don't think it does. I don't like, I would be surprised if it did.
02:00:28
Speaker
this is This is a full story. Because what happens in this is ah that Dope Rider rides out of the panel and has a little looking right at the reader's moment.
02:00:40
Speaker
And then they moon um the reader. And Dope Rider's ass is just like a like your pelvis. yeah well um I do not like this other dude's ass.
02:00:59
Speaker
It's rough. It's bad. ah it's It's more of a V than a U, I'll tell you that. Yeah, man. I hate it. um What's the name of the guy who does the Onion political cartoons?
02:01:17
Speaker
ah Fuck. What is his name? Like the character name. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
02:01:25
Speaker
Uh... I feel terrible that I can't think of it off the top of my head. His name is Kelly. Stan Kelly. ah You know how every one of those strips like has him in the corner looking at the reader and saying like a pun title?
02:01:46
Speaker
yeah ah Dope Rider has that gimmick, but it's his pet armadillo. Yeah, the armadillo has some little comment and in every and every one of these.
02:02:00
Speaker
Yeah, and the armadillo is not funny. like The umadyla the armadillo is the one who has all the weed jokes, for sure. Yeah, I mean, Dope Rider does have a joint in his mouth in all of these.
02:02:20
Speaker
Problem is, you're an unreality show, Dope Rider. Oh, fuck off.
02:02:27
Speaker
I feel bad, because I feel like Brad maybe thought we might like these more than we do.
02:02:41
Speaker
But hate I hate this.
02:02:48
Speaker
like Here's what sucks. is like the art The art's pretty good. The art's not bad, yeah. Except for that guy's ass, which I think is intentionally off-putting. I would agree, yeah. ah The third one is the most self-contained.
02:03:01
Speaker
Because some producers just like arrive at Dope Rider's door and tell the tell him that they want to make a reality show with him. And he says, what does it pay? And they say, $10,000 a week.
02:03:14
Speaker
And he says, I'll only take my payment in gold. Acapulco gold. Is that weird? I think so. And then he says his agent, Manny, will handle the details, and his agent is like ah like a mantis.
02:03:31
Speaker
um And so they show up the next day to film the reality show, and when they walk in it's like a
02:03:41
Speaker
like a piece of abstract art inside his cabin.
02:03:47
Speaker
It's like, yeah, it's like a... um it's like ah It's like a Steve Ditko panel. it's Yeah, it's a Steve Ditko universe in there. and It's honestly like a worse version of the weird oh inter-dimension that the Hulk is in.
02:04:10
Speaker
in in the Hulk 312. Yeah. yeah And so... Because I guess he smoked too much weed. He smoked so much weed... He smoked $10,000 at Ocapulco Gold.
02:04:22
Speaker
And so um he smoked so much weed that the inside of his cabin became ah dreamscape. And and he doesn't know he doesn't even know about the reality show.
02:04:36
Speaker
He's in a bin of oranges. show and he's and Yeah, and he's in a bin of oranges. $2.50 a pound for oranges. and Not bad.
02:04:47
Speaker
I appreciate the confidence of an artist who can draw someone in a bin of oranges, but then does put a sign that says oranges so that you know what it is. Again, very Stan Kelly, right? Very political cartoon.
02:05:01
Speaker
I don't think we could rank these. the like i mean, I can't rank them, but I mean, you probably relate to this more than I do. Rude. i ah ah Because you love weed so much.
02:05:13
Speaker
I know, yeah. Yeah. Whether or not they're sequential, I still think they are comic strips.
02:05:22
Speaker
right i sot therere I don't they're not, Matt. I think they're comic strips. These are definitely self-contained stories.
02:05:33
Speaker
Well, that super if you think that that one-page story is on the back of a Superman, on the back of a cereal box –
02:05:41
Speaker
so yeah Did we rank it? No. Oh, well then, yeah, then don't rank these.
02:05:49
Speaker
I thought, I could not remember who won that argument. You did. yeah Okay, good. Then yeah. ah Yeah, we didn't rank that, so we're not going to rank these. Hey, Brad, thanks for supporting the show.
02:06:04
Speaker
Thanks for being a good sport. ah Send in something that's not a strip. it can be It can even be related to weed, but not these. It doesn't have to be related to weed.
02:06:16
Speaker
But it can be. I mean, it can be. Maybe there's a good comic about weed.
02:06:25
Speaker
If you can find it, send it in.
02:06:29
Speaker
Uh... That's it for this special. If you would like to send us an Every Story Ever list, you can do it by sending it to our email address, which is warrocketpodcast.gmail.com. That is also where you can send ah submissions for our new segment, 1-10 of Swords, ah where we rank swords.
Potential Cannabis Episode on Patreon Goal
02:06:48
Speaker
We rate swords. let me We said rank a lot when we were talking about it. I tried to correct myself every time. rate. We rate swords on a scale from 1 to 10.
02:06:59
Speaker
ah So that's where you can do all those things. If you want to support this show, these specials are weekly show, comics catch up, movie fighters and snack situation. Go to patreon.com slash warrocketajax and send us some money, why don't you?
02:07:13
Speaker
That would be a big ol' help. And if we get to 420... Send us some money so so that we can be mean to the comics you want us to read. If we get to 420...
02:07:23
Speaker
Patrons. Paid patrons. ah Then we will do some kind of cannabis product and record a show. So Brad, that's pretty good, doesn't it?
02:07:34
Speaker
One of the things we should do on that bonus content is try to read these again. We should reread these again and see if they're good. All right. Done. Done.
02:07:45
Speaker
Uh... Our website is warrocketajax.com and has links. It has every episode of show we've ever done. Warrocketwiki.com is the fan run repository of all the information.
02:07:57
Speaker
Find us on Blue Sky. We're at warrocketajax.com there. Find us on Tumblr, warrocketpodcast.tumblr.com. ah And join our Discord. That's a great place. Ask for an invitation to our Discord and we will provide you with one if you are nice. If you want to find me and my stuff, go to mattdwilson.net to find links to everything. Chris, where can people find you?
02:08:17
Speaker
Everybody can find me by going to the-isb.com. That is my website. It has links and some things that I've written. If you want to find you want to read a long essay about The Alfred Show, it's there.
02:08:30
Speaker
We'll be back in April with more Rankings of Comics. See you then. Bye, everybody! Forever, forever, forever, ever, ever,
02:08:46
Speaker
Let every creed mongrel live together.