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Take The Good Times & Make Them Better
554 Plays1 month ago
“Citra is like salt – you kinda need it… but also we have a lot contracted so we need to get through it!”
Banks Brewing hold a place in many Aussie beer drinkers’ hearts, not least as one of the country’s finest brewers of all things hop-forward and hazy. Yet the Seaford brewery launched by Chris and Penny Farmer back in 2016 has – usually without fanfare – pioneered many other styles and techniques over the years.
These days, West Coast pilsners are at the very top of both Chris and Penny’s list of favoured beers; we wrote about them alongside Cali IPAs in late 2024, yet they released their first all the way back in 2018. That beer was inspired by one of many fact-finding missions (holidays?) to the States, and a fondness for studying what’s happening in other beer cultures is often behind their desire to keep pushing forwards.
We sat down with the couple at their brewery, one that’s much-changed from its earliest days. Then, they only ever envisaged having a tiny, winery-esque cellar door before they realised very eager drinkers wanted more, which has led to Banks – formerly Mr Banks – evolving and expanding ever since.
We discuss building a business alongside a young family, the beers that showed them who they were as a brewery, the beauty of collaborations, forging new outlets, constant renewal, and their brush with a Hollywood icon.
Before we get to that, however, we discuss the moment Albo seemed to offer hope for small producers in an election promise only to dash those hopes once the details were revealed. And Will talks about a good news story from the Central Coast, where Six String have this week opened their new venue ready to host live music once more.
We also reveal the first winner of the Bluestone Yeast Brewery of the Month: Cypher Brewing in Canberra.
Start of segments:
- 9:30 – Chris & Penny Part 1
- 32:24 – Bluestone Yeast Brewery of the Month
- 37:58 – Chris & Penny Part 2
Relevant links:
- Banks Brewing
- Labor's Promise Too Little, Too Late
- Six String's Big Move
- Bluestone Yeast Brewery of the Month
- Cypher Brewing
- Have You Done A Rallings?
- OPM Design
To find out more about supporting the show or otherwise partnering with The Crafty Pint, contact craig@craftypint.com.
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Transcript
00:00:05
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Crafty Pint Podcast. I'm Will. I'm James, coming at you from my ah little little courtyard in Marrickville, which is, I guess, kind of appropriate, given this week's, what one of this week's big news stories.
00:00:19
Speaker
Yes, how are you enjoying Sydney, first of all, before we get into it? Oh, it's good. It was a bit of a last-minute trip, but I still managed to fill every day with lots of visits. um I'm probably going to have to arrange to get a one or two boxes of beer and merch sent back down to because I'm not going to get it back on the plane.
00:00:36
Speaker
I managed a bit of a dip at Bondi the other day after was out at Curly Lewis, and the event we've got tonight in the Ale Trail face-off is sold out. So that's always nice. And then I'm off to Brookvale to check out all the new breweries that have opened up there since I was last up there. so pretty ah fun times.
00:00:54
Speaker
Oh, all the positives. um Yeah, well, speaking of the inner west, I guess we had the news from Albo himself, from the Prime Minister on Saturday, that they were going to increase the excise rebate for brewers, distillers and winemakers from $350,000 $400,000.
00:01:13
Speaker
it it's sorry three hundred and fifty thousand four hundred thousand dollars Well, I think well the first announcement was a bit of a teaser saying, hey, we love beer and spirits and we're going to do something awesome. And everyone got very excited. And I think, you know, the IBA, the Independent Brewers Association put a post out and got a really positive reaction. And they must have been like, yes, all of our hard work and campaigning is going to turn into something great. and then then The following day, we we saw the details the announcement and it was just like, yeah, a damp squib, I suggest, you know, a way to sort of burst the bubble. um Yes, I think, you know, increasing it by 50 grand to 400,000 is effectively putting it where it would have been with inflation inflation it had it been indexed when it first came in. So it feels like...
00:01:54
Speaker
What's the least we can possibly do at the least cost to us to still be able to put something out there and say to people that we've done done something? um And I've spoken to a few brewers while I've been on the you know on the road up here and you know some are like, well, I'm not going to say no to an extra 50 grand, which you know that depends on them getting reelected and it wouldn't come until the middle next year.
00:02:14
Speaker
But then a lot of people are under the excise limit anyway, so it makes no difference. you know and those that are It doesn't seem to address the major issues, which are that, you know, beer has become too expensive to produce, mean you know, in a large to a large degree because of tax, which means it's expensive to buy and people have got less money in their pockets. It's expensive for pubs to sell it. It's expensive for retailers.
00:02:36
Speaker
And this doesn't do anything to address that at all, really. So, yeah, pretty disappointing, I think. Yeah, absolutely. and And yeah, for context on that, I mean, the IBA is always sort of positioned that it should be indexed anyway, or otherwise the real value of it drops with inflation. So, and that's basically what they're doing.
00:02:57
Speaker
It is kind of the thing people... hate politics for isn't it and politicians for it's like we'll make this flashy announcement and then it gives us the opportunity in two years to make the same flashy announcement of $500,000 or something like that but like when all of it's pretty meaningless but you can sort of continue to make these they sort of calls without ever actually doing significant reform.
00:03:20
Speaker
Yeah, well, and if and if it comes about there'll have been two more excise tax rises, you know, indexed CPI. like it's just It isn't addressing the issues at hand properly. It's not going to make, you know, producers, whether it's brewers or distillers' lives, any easier. It's not going to make, you know, the the cost of beer or spirits get any more affordable.
00:03:40
Speaker
It's like it's just not doing anything. I think it's just fair. I mean... On the plus side, I think, you know, um i think the feeling is that there's still time for them to make further announcements. I'd be very surprised if they did. But, you know, i guess people can keep the pressure up. And this is just another, you know, message to put out there and hopefully put the pressure on. Maybe I should go and get like one of the, you know, placard or a A-frame board and go and walk up and down down outside Albo's office, but probably get myself into trouble.
00:04:03
Speaker
But, you know, there is hope there might still be further announcements. And I guess people will wait and see what the other parties have got to say as well. I think that one-two punch of saying, hey, we've got a positive announcement saying, you know, we're going to support, know, brewers and distillers and producers. And then 24 hours later, when you see the detail at being so little was, I think that's the big disappointment. I think, you know, offering that, they say it's the hope that kills you. And there's that bit of hope. And then instantly the rug was pulled away.
00:04:29
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. um in In positive news, though, and I recently did catch up with Sharon Benson from Six String Brewing on the central coast of New South Wales.
00:04:42
Speaker
They're turning 12 pretty soon, the the brewery rather than owners, but um they they've just opened their they're brand new expanded site.
00:04:52
Speaker
Obviously, as the name alludes and the fact they've got a pic in their logo, they're they're big supporters of live music from small festivals to ah larger ones and gigs and all that.
00:05:04
Speaker
The new venue means they can host gigs again, which is great. They haven't actually been able to for a long time because of some neighbours issues with neighbours but now they're in a larger space where they have dedicated gigs, more a larger kitchen, make more beer. It's kind of really good to see the family that runs that continue to excel I think yeah and but by having those really deep roots on the central coast I think a lot of people particularly out Sydney who have been in craft beer would know them pretty well particularly for their dark Red IPA, it's got a real cult following and used to make it down to Melbourne and things like that. But um they've done really well in their backyard.
00:05:40
Speaker
Yeah, no I think they're a great, I think that's a great craft beer story. Like they have just, you know, put down deep roots. They've supported, you know, local sports teams. They've got the music connection, you know, and they have just, you know, they're managing to continue to expand.
00:05:54
Speaker
um at a time when you know a lot more people have probably been up and down or maybe only down in more recent years. And i think, yeah, it's just the six-string story is a really good one to look at and go, hey, here's how our craft brewery can set up and become a local institution and you know evolve and and now get back to their their roots in many ways.
00:06:15
Speaker
We'll get into the main guests for this week in a second, but before we do, you'll hear midway through this show, Craig and I chat about our first Bluestone Brewer of the Month. So look out for that. And there's another segment we need to remind you of too, right, James?
00:06:28
Speaker
Yeah, well, and if you want to nominate ah at any any more Bluestone Youth Breweries of the Month, you just jump to craftypint.com slash bluestone. And also we're all you know constantly seeking more nominations for the Have You Done a Rallings, which is celebrating good beer citizens all over Australia. And for that one, there's a form at...
00:06:45
Speaker
Craftypint.com slash Rallings, R-A-L-L-I-N-G-S. I know the first winners of the Have Done Rallings Buddy Brewing. and They were really chuffed with the winners. It made made made them feel even more like part of the industry they've only been a part of for around a year. um So yeah, get your nominations in for Good Beer Citizens. We had some really great nominations already.
00:07:05
Speaker
um But yeah, main chat this week, Will. We were down at um Banks just the other day. Yeah, we jumped in the car and headed to lovely Seaford by the sea and chatted with Chris and Penny Farmer about their brewery. Listeners will know it's it's a nice little follow-up, I think, to Shapeshifter last week because they're both quote-unquote hype breweries. There's a lot of love for them. But, um yeah, Chris and Penny, they've always...
00:07:33
Speaker
done things their own way I think they've built the business very organically they're they're really quick on new styles and always interested in um basically I mean Chris's words you just getting better at all times he doesn't believe you can have perfect beer he just always wants it to be that little bit better and to change everything they do and he's really open about that as well which I liked for both of them Well, I think it like with ShapeShifter, you sort of strip away the hype and you realize there's these very sort of humble people behind it, you know, who just yeah try to do the best they can. And, you know, starting out, yeah, launch the brewery pretty much the same time they launched their family. You know what mean? And it's, you know, you sort of, you can look at Cake Eater and Citra Fields and all these other beers and the collabs they do. But at at heart, it's a small family but business that's just been evolving and changing and learning as they go.
00:08:19
Speaker
um so yeah, ah so that's ah coming up after the after the short break. before then, though, Will. So enjoy the episode. And if you enjoy it, make sure you like and subscribe and review us. Cheers.
00:08:35
Speaker
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00:08:46
Speaker
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00:08:58
Speaker
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00:09:10
Speaker
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00:09:31
Speaker
Chris and Penny, thank you for joining us on the podcast. Thanks for having us. Thanks. Hey. So let's start off with why don't you tell us who or what Banks Brewing is. All right, so Banks Brewing is, well, it's us.
00:09:45
Speaker
um It's our dog, I suppose, also. um We started the brewery back in 2016. We're terrible at coming up with names, so ah just decided that we liked our dog's name, so then you know we would... ah We'd roll that into a business, you know, keep it sort of within the family. um But yeah, we've been going for 16 years. 16 years, sorry. I've been going for nearly nine years.
00:10:13
Speaker
Feels like 16 years. It actually does. Yeah. 16 great years. um Yeah, we're, you know, pretty small brewery, a small team here. We we love to have a lot of fun and, you know, make the beer we like to drink and, you know, sort of...
00:10:28
Speaker
Don't steer too far away from that. You know, it's not, it's not all about money for us. Obviously it's a business, so there's that, but yeah, would just like to, you know, we love this industry and love being a part of it. So it's, yeah, it's great.
00:10:40
Speaker
And if there is like a bank's ethos or sort of guiding philosophy, and what might that be? We can always make it better. And then on a serious note, probably quality first and fun.
00:10:51
Speaker
So we're often happy to take, you know, the more expensive, better fruit, knowing that it'll, you know, really drive the product going, quality is always what has sort of driven what we've done and we'll deal with the cost and the things at the end. um But, yeah, that's sort of always been the the way we've gone.
00:11:09
Speaker
Yeah. Interesting you mentioned fruit there because you were saying that you were both into wine and that you weighed up maybe going into wine before beer. Yeah, Penny's all about the fruit beers. Okay. Yeah, I'm the guide for that one. As I said, I'm not not always a big lager lover, so I'm always the the taster on the fruited sours anything we add fruit to. That's sort of where I put my hand up. That's the ones when we're travelling, tasting beers. I go and pile...
00:11:35
Speaker
yeah yeah I go try all the crazy ones and Chris sticks to the standard. yeah Will you say the ones that don't sell? Have there been certain beers that have always been difficult to sell or is that more of a market these days where things may be contracted? A little of both. They definitely used to sell better than they did. um Pretty much most of our kettle sours and stuff like that these days, if...
00:12:01
Speaker
You know, everything we make, 70% of it would probably go to like Queensland, to the warmer states. um But yeah, there was obviously, you know, a lot of hype around the heavily fruited sours and stuff like that for a while. And we sort of pushed on that.
00:12:14
Speaker
It's, I mean, for us personally, I think there's, we all know there's one brewery in Australia that's doing extremely well with them. But, Yeah, for us, it's not ah it's not a big market. Like we our batch sizes have just declined.
00:12:26
Speaker
yeah some what We still do them because we like to have, you know, something for everyone at the taproom and available. But yeah, it's just, I don't know, it's not ah not a hazy beer, that's for sure. So you do have a bit of a national presence. I think there'll be Banks fans all over the country, but they might not know so much about where we are right now in Seaford recording. do you want to tell us a little bit about the area and why you chose it?
00:12:49
Speaker
Yep. Um, it's a pretty simple one while we chose it. Uh, I, this factory here where we're actually is my dad's. Um, so we, we lease it at full clip. So there's no discount there, unfortunately. Come on dad. tell me It's tough times for brewers these days. He helped us out in the early year or so. So he keeps reminding me of that. Um,
00:13:12
Speaker
but So that was obviously one part of it. So it was easier for us to get a lease because he was moving out of it. We're previous business that i was written in with him at the time. But then also because of that, we looked you know looked at the area and at that time there was nothing. yeah yeah There was no brewery or not really even any bars in Frankston that would sell craft beer.
00:13:34
Speaker
Closest place was Mornington. Dayton were in the process of setting up around the corner it was very similar timing. Yeah, Boat Rocker wouldn't have had their barrel room back then. No, think so. And even there a bit further. Yeah, so it just wasn't a lot. It was just a a very untapped market. though And just for people who who aren't from us, so you're kind of,
00:13:52
Speaker
I guess the top end of where the peninsula starts, sort of Southeast suburbs meets the peninsula. Yeah. Good branding for seafood. Yeah. The gateway to the peninsula. The gateway to the peninsula. But if you're from the peninsula, many people, and even like our cousins, they continue to remind us are not.
00:14:08
Speaker
I claimed it. And look, yeah, being the start of the peninsula, that that it's just synonymous with good quality wine, good quality produce. I think it just made sense, one, that we live down here, but being, you know, right at the edge of that so that we can, you know,
00:14:26
Speaker
Yeah. Source all that. Yeah, of course. but and And location wise, I mean, it it makes a lot of sense. Like we are literally one of the last towns you can get Melbourne Metro shipping in. So that's pretty handy with trucks. We can make our way down the peninsula very easily or to the city.
00:14:40
Speaker
And that was a big focus for us in the early years. There was, a you know, after that first year or so, there was some breweries popping up down the peninsula. um So we decided to sort of focus a little bit more towards town for a while and in the Southeast a bit more than some sort of doing down there. And now that's sort of flipped a little bit and we are putting a lot more attention down to the peninsula. And yeah, there's probably a lot more places to sell craft beer into on the peninsula now than there have been nine years ago. Like, you know, it would have been really hot, few bars and I guess, you know, you're talking about sort of golf clubs and hotels, they would have had no interest, I'd imagine, in local beer back then. And in a lot of wineries. We've got a lot of good relationships with a lot of the wineries around here. And you know, now is a very good time at the moment because
00:15:18
Speaker
They all have a vintage, so we're doing a lot of wine and beer sort of. Contra. yes Yeah. Yeah. yeah so Yeah. It's a, yeah, it's nice. It's nice that they want to drink our stuff and we want to drink it. So it's, yeah, it's yeah.
00:15:32
Speaker
We always have loved, you know, food and wine and beer and we always wanted to do something. And I think. You know, here just at the time it just sort of worked. Yeah. And we are in ah an industrial area, but- High take place. it's not It's not the most romantic it made. But we're talking before when you opened up, it was more as a cellar door and people just sort of really wanted you to open. Did that surprise you or- hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah. It was, yeah, as we were talking about, it's, we were like, okay, we love the whole cellar door experience of wineries.
00:16:03
Speaker
We also love the hours that that works and not having to work hospitality bar hours. um So we sort of implemented that in our front room. Thought we'd have the brewery out the back. We'd do seller door sales during the weekend, weekends have one person in there that yeah i could run it all, yada, yada.
00:16:19
Speaker
And then yeah, people were just hanging out in the office with us. It was very strange. Like these random couches that I found off, ah there wasn't even marketplace back then. So I don't know what- I mean Gumtree. Gumtree. Yeah. Just had a couch sitting in there with a little kegerator and you know people would just hang out and I'd literally have to kick them out at nine o'clock on a Friday. I'd be like, guys, I'm going go home now. They're just so comfortable drinking the beer. But it was, it was, it was literally, it was like a reception to a, you know, to a warehouse place. It really was. Yeah. Quite a tiny one. Yeah. Yeah. it was a very cozy little space in there and there would be multiple Fridays where there would be 25 people in there. And it's like,
00:16:54
Speaker
We've got to do something. And you take them into the brewery because that was still like taking shape and you were sharing the space. yeah Yeah, yeah. We shared for the first year and a half to two years um with my brother-in-law, which which was a real benefit for us as a business. But um yeah, he had the front half, we had the back half, which...
00:17:10
Speaker
In hindsight, again, terrible planning, she didn't have it the other way around but it worked for drainage reasons and stuff like that. So yeah, you had to go through his area to get to us and then, yeah, but yeah, at that stage, I mean, to get to us, there was that, it was probably a 20th of the factory was the brewery in the back corner. Yeah.
00:17:29
Speaker
majority of this space was used for me to play basketball. We had a ring in there and anyone that came in, like any reps or anything, we'd shoot hoops. I was pretty good at basketball back then, but haven't shot for it. Terrible now. well and and just so and People i guess there' listening in rather than watching, like we're we're sat one of sort of two outdoor beer gardens, there's a big venue inside now. um yeah did you How does it evolve to this this stage? Because i mean, you know was that something you realised early on you had to cater to and how quickly have you sort of taken over more and more of the... It's definitely been a so slow progression. So from having you know your 20 or so people in the front going, we can't keep this up, we need more space, more people arriving.
00:18:12
Speaker
um It was a long time with council trying to get that over the line, which you hear from everyone. um So, but yeah, that's when we sort of said to the other people, look, we we really need the space for ah cellad door or a proper tap room.
00:18:25
Speaker
And that was, we were being sort of heading to the States at least once a year at that stage for inspiration. And their factory style beer halls are great. yeah they They've nailed that. And we're like, look, we don't have to go super fancy. Maybe we just sort of do that American style. You know, this is a working factory. It's not...
00:18:44
Speaker
gold taps and beautiful bathrooms. It's let's just come here to drink and hopefully the vibe will be what, you know, brings people back. And that's sort of been the progression. We've always sort of built out a little section and then, okay, it's getting busier. We'll expand a bit more. So it's definitely been ah slowly encroaching on the car park as COVID rules allowed us, putting in a playground.
00:19:07
Speaker
So yes, um it's definitely been yeah. piece at a time yeah yeah I think I don't reckon I've probably come down every couple of years and there's always something as new whether it's the well the rebrand or the the color scheme or the furniture inside or where the big screen you is it sort of that something had to happen just because you've been getting bigger or is it you know trying to adapt to keep the locals interested or you know what you know what's driven that Yes, to all of that. um i i think i get wow what I get bored a lot, so I like to i change. yeah um But one of the main things is we have a lot of regulars and you know I'm a big believer of we want those people to keep coming back, so we want to keep it fresh. So you know little things like new tables or new booths or TVs and stuff like that, they just and make people come in and go, oh, there's something new and fresh. And if that makes them go, oh, they'd come back.
00:20:02
Speaker
maybe two or three more times within that sort of three month period because you know, it feels newer, and it feels fresher and yeah, there's especially these days, there's a lot more competition around here and a lot of places opening and we're just trying to keep, i like you got to keep relevant in this industry, but I think keeping relevant in, you know hospitality and everything is is part of it too. So.
00:20:22
Speaker
And are you mostly locals in terms of people coming to the tap room or you getting beer tourists, whether that's from, you know, the rest of Melbourne or from further afield coming through? I'd imagine you would have that appeal to if, you know, beer lovers coming from interstates like Bankswood would be, you high their list. Yeah, we do. We've got, um we've probably got a lot less people traveling than what we used to yeah um when, you know, beer was really hot. But we we definitely still get, you know,
00:20:49
Speaker
weekly or fortnightly brewery tours and stuff like that. But there's a lot of locals. Yeah, lot of locals. But yeah, it's it's good. We like, I love it when I see someone's traveled from, you know, interstate and they've, we're not near that much. So they've caught the train down or whatever. And their fair chain and yeah and then walk through that, you know, it's an interesting little cut through. I would just recommend to anyone doing that trip.
00:21:10
Speaker
Don't do the cut through. Just go over the bridge. Okay. You'll know if you've done that. You'll understand what that means. I was like, are we definitely going the right way here? Yeah. Yeah. yeah So, but yeah, it's cool.
00:21:21
Speaker
It's not too far away. That's the main thing. The train station is not too far away from the, yeah we're very accessible. But yeahs yeah, it's yeah. Just pick your route. Aaron, you're actually coming up on the ninth anniversary.
00:21:34
Speaker
um You also have children at 10 and seven. um How did that go? you like so You know, starting a family and starting a business that you'd never sort of been involved in before, aside from, I guess, you know, the homebrewing, like you knew how to make beer, but you didn't really know what you were getting yourselves into.
00:21:50
Speaker
Yeah, tough and good. I think one of the hardest things is actually working with your partner because when you go home, it's really hard to get that time to switch off. Normally you might go, hey, how was your day? Oh, this happened, it was horrible, but it's like, remember, we need to go over those figures. Remember the insurance guy's waiting for tomorrow. So I find that part is quite challenging. Mm-hmm.
00:22:09
Speaker
In terms of the kids, it's been sort of great having them along for the ride. And that's another way that the tap roofs evolved. Originally, we had a tiny little kids' play area and now we've got a basketball ring and a playground and and the whole business has kind of adapted as our family's grown as well. yeah um But, yeah, it's definitely been an interesting ride. But, yeah, a fun one.
00:22:30
Speaker
Yeah. os Yeah, for sure. And how do you sort of divide the labour penny? What's your background? So I'm, yeah, I'm in a chartered accountant. So I do all the accounting, all the excise.
00:22:42
Speaker
I've also been lumped with all the administration, which um is just gotten more and more every year. That's something that has just like container scheme. That's, hours of work every month. Yeah. just to make sure you're reporting that correctly. So i think um as we've grown, it's not necessarily, you know, more sales or more customers or more staff that's created a lot more work. It's all these extra sort of things that are going on here and there. So um definitely that's, I sort of stick to the the office inside and those sorts of things.
00:23:15
Speaker
Love hitting up a a beer festival and pouring beers every now and then. um But I sort of stick to that side and Chris is probably on the on the creative side of things in terms of developing recipes and then sort of really managing staff. Are you on the tools much these days, Chris?
00:23:30
Speaker
Not really. yeah I occasionally jump on the canning line if I need to or something like that. I probably should be more because I of forget how to use it. But no, I still write all the recipes and stuff like that. But yeah, it's...
00:23:43
Speaker
it's Yeah. I miss it a little bit, to be honest. I love like brew. Probably do the rockstar brewing shift. It's good because you don't have to clean. Yeah. I love the smell of a machine, but I don't want to do a cleaning. Yeah. So it's, yeah, it's good and bad.
00:23:58
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Now we we'll have a good chat about sort of the styles that you've become known for and that you enjoy after the break. But um I know this is kind of old news. um But you did sort of change from Mr. Banks to Banks a few years ago, um and it involved a brush with a bit of a Hollywood legend. And some people might know this story, some don't, but we'd love to, you know, hear hear it again. yeah so how how did that all come about?
00:24:20
Speaker
So we had a beer called McConaughey's that we'd been making for quite a while. We're very big on pun names and things to do with movies and, you know, just as we said before, having fun with it.
00:24:31
Speaker
um And then I think it was... Oh, 2020 or 2019, can't remember. um I was on my way to GABS or the ABAs or something like that. And our bar manager sent me an email saying, you know, this, we've made it. And i was like, well, I read it. And I was like, well, we haven't made It's horrible if this is true. And it was a cease and desist from what turned out to be Matthew McConaughey's lawyers. Thought it was a joke.
00:25:00
Speaker
Or a scam. Yeah. Just sent it to our lawyer. He looked over was like, nah, it looks pretty real. spoke with them. it turns out it was real. um And then, yeah, there was a whole thing of a back and forth. We were having communication with them. they were actually really good about it. They basically just said that, you know, Matt doesn't like people making money off his brand.
00:25:22
Speaker
You were like, we're not making any money. Oh, my God. We're tiny. And they made connections. You know it wasn't just the name. There was like a Lincoln on the can and stuff like this. So, yeah, it was probably a little close to home in that sense. But, um yeah, we made, yeah, we had chats with them and we were going to go down the path of working kind of with them in giving money to his charity. But then it all fell over at last minute while his lawyers were writing up the the agreements for some reason to do with wild turkey.
00:25:54
Speaker
But in saying that, we have been to the States couple times since and been to Austin and there is a brewery over there that makes i'm a McConaughey's. Oh, really? Yeah, they didn't make it when we started. But they mustn't have a Lincoln lawyer. Yeah. I don't Or maybe they have something. Or they may have endorsed it in way. He lives in Austin, maybe there's something there. Or they may have done what we were planning to do where, you know, 20 cents of every can sale gets donated to his homeless charity. Which is what we're going to Yeah, some sort of agreement. going to to with, yeah, youth homelessness. And did you get to hang out with him? That's the main thing. No, sent him macka a case beer but um because I asked his lawyer if he would be interested and he said, yeah, he'd love to try it. So I sent it to this address in...
00:26:34
Speaker
Austin, which he said was his lawyer's address. His lawyer lived in New York. So it was apparently his Austin farm. But if you look it up, I looked it up on Google maps and it is an enormous this place yeah and it is right next to a private airfield.
00:26:48
Speaker
Wow. Who knows? He may have his address. yeah I might be out of on the address if you want to. Just check the stalking laws in Texas. Yeah, yeah. Actually, probably wouldn't do it in Texas. Yeah.
00:26:59
Speaker
But, um yeah, so that's, like, started the whole thing with a, you know, for for a long time, ah the brewery was obviously known as Mr. Banks. yeah i It's a name that,
00:27:10
Speaker
sort of settled on at the start. um I was never really in love with it, but it I think it did help us a lot at the start. You know, lot of people, I think it's kind of worked with a little older generation and younger generation. like people because it's the mighty burns So Banks our dog is named after Adam Banks, who's character in the Mighty Ducks. yeah So, which, so the name means absolutely nothing.
00:27:33
Speaker
um but But before the makes the Mighty Ducks start coming after you going, we've got five years worth of it. Yeah. So, but when then this whole lawsuit thing was sort of happening and we'd just gone through the process of getting McConaughey's into printed cans, um, which we'd spent, I think it was literally like three days before we got the printed cans and I was so happy with them. i was like, literally we canned it that day. as they rocked up, was sitting at home like,
00:28:01
Speaker
So good. We've finally done it. Because it was one of our first printed cans that wasn't like a generic one that we wrapped stickers around and yeah, yeah. Which it was a big, big deal for us back then. And you'd been working to perfect that beer. Like you just bit involved over time as well. And it was getting some good traction. and Like people were really, lot really enjoying it. And then that happened.
00:28:20
Speaker
So when we sat down and like, what are we going to do about this? It's obviously we can't keep making it. we were like, okay, well, we need to change the name. We were probably stepping over the line with the name that we chose and we went to All Right.
00:28:33
Speaker
which was With three eyes. Yeah, with three eyes. yeah um Which didn't last in the end for other reasons. because it just, I don't know if people didn't know if it was the same beer or a different beer. it just didn't really work out. So we dropped it in the end.
00:28:47
Speaker
um But when we were going through that whole process, I... i I couldn't like, I couldn't pay for another batch of cans to be printed that the only thing changed on it was just the name from McConaughey's to a right and the same design and everything. Cause it's like busy the way they charge cans. It's per color. It's a very yeah very big investment to change a can. Yeah.
00:29:07
Speaker
so so and yeah Then I just started really, and these guys didn't want to do it. Like Penny said, no, Malk's who's had a sales and been with us since our first year or second year, he was like, nah, we can't do it. But I was like, stop it.
00:29:21
Speaker
yeah I get, I hit the say here. were doing So I wanted to drop the mister. There was a lot of things, a lot of reasons behind it, but that was, that was the timing for me that I was like, okay, ah I can deal with us changing the logo yeah and then the name at the bottom of the can.
00:29:36
Speaker
so you know, it, I think it was a long process. We still get called Mr. Banks by people all the time. um It probably has something to do with the fact that we're legally still known as Mr. Banks because we didn't yeah go through we didn't go through the name change process in that.
00:29:51
Speaker
So were Mr. Banks trading as a bank's brother. Um, and there's reasons behind that because if you have bank linked to your business name, you have to get approval from like the Australian bank. Oh wow. Financial institutions. Because you've been using the word bank.
00:30:05
Speaker
So it was just, you've you've made a lot of bad choices out there. Yeah. It's horrible. It's horrible. Everywhere you go. Also, yeah I would never ever suggest to anyone to start a business with a letter B at the start. B is a terrible logo.
00:30:17
Speaker
Okay. It's hard to make a good looking B. Okay. You've spent many hours on this, haven't you? Oh, I hate every rebrand ever done. I still don't like our logo. I'll never be happy with it because it's got to be.
00:30:28
Speaker
So we have to rebrand again. Name change coming up. But yeah, it's, um I think I'm finally happy with where the names are because for a long time it really annoyed me. So. Well, the the the rebrand, I think, did suit more the personality and the styles of beers you were making by that stage anyway. Yeah. Because you sort of, you know, you had some more traditional styles when you first started out in those first few releases. And then we'll get to, after right you know, started making the beers that you're synonymous with now, which I think are more modern and, you know.
00:30:58
Speaker
Yeah. I think when we started, you know, and it's it's probably the same for most businesses, especially in this sort of, you industry and area. ah we knew we wanted to make beer and we knew the styles that we liked, but I don't think we knew who we were as a brand and like what sort of people we wanted to push to. And, you know, and, and that didn't really happen for the first sort of three years. And there's a couple of specific beers that sort of really, i think, told us, this is what people want from us. This is what we love. And like, we should go down this path.
00:31:29
Speaker
And, and that also tied into like branding as well. There were some beers that we, know, would release and the branding people would just love it and always talk about it and naming and stuff like that. So our limited releases is still, you know, we literally, we throw a dart at the wall and whatever name comes up and that's it. Or like someone will say something as they're walking down the stairs of the office and I'm like That'd be a good name. Like it's, it's, it's a very non exact science, but it's, uh, yeah, there's certain things that are definitely, I think showed us within those years of sort of what direction we should take this and, and sort of told us who we were as a brand.
00:32:10
Speaker
Well, reckon that's a good time to take quick break and then we can come back and we start with those two beers that, you know, told you who you were as a brand. Yeah. Sounds good.
00:32:25
Speaker
It's time now to announce the Bluestone Yeast Brewery of the Month. Bluestone is Australia's leading manufacturer of liquid yeasts, offering brewers a biobank of over 100 strains. Find out more at bluestoneyeast.com.au.
00:32:40
Speaker
G'day, it's Craig here and I'm here with Will. We're chatting all things Bluestone Yeast Brewery of the Month. Now, the nominations have been flooding in from people all over the country ah nominating some of their favorite breweries. Maybe it's the venue, maybe it's the vibe, maybe it's what they're doing on socials or in the community.
00:32:57
Speaker
um Mate, it's up to you and I to pick some some honorable mentions and some winners. Yeah, what a job we have because they are all really good entries. from very different sort of breweries from around the country and also people nominating for really different reasons, which I like to see.
00:33:13
Speaker
One I'll start with that I enjoyed was Boat Rocker Brewing in Melbourne, one of Melbourne's original sort craft gypsy slash contract breweries um and also one of the first breweries to dip their toes into distillery, distilling as well.
00:33:27
Speaker
So that they were nominated for for what they do. They've always made exceptional barrel-aged beers. Their barrel room in the southeastern suburbs of Melbourne is awesome to hang out in.
00:33:38
Speaker
and this person also wanted to shout out their lemon collection. So once a year they they ask all residents of their postcode, 3195, to um bring their their backyard lemons in so they can make limoncello when they have like a limoncello party as well. I know we're drifting off from beer a little bit here, but I like to see it and I'm sure, yeah, I'm sure they'll enjoy that shout out.
00:34:05
Speaker
Oh, that's awesome. And isn't ah a bag of lemons gets you a bottle of limoncello? Is that the deal? Yeah, well, and so backyard lemon trees are seriously profitable in that case. Like i'm I'm kind of looking around the streets of Brunswick. I'd have forge my identity or something, but if I could bring all these bags in. There's actually quite a few bottles of limoncello I think you could get pretty easily.
00:34:29
Speaker
Great stuff. Well done, Boat Rocker, for an honourable mention. um i'm gonna For my honourable mention this month, I'm going give a shout out to a nomination that came in for Bucketies in Brookvale. These guys have been doing a great job for a few years now. they um They're constantly, they've got this great core range. They're always offering new beer styles and so on.
00:34:48
Speaker
ah They've got a ah kind of a really active social media profile and um apparently they ah do lots of cool videos, sort of behind the scenes, interviews with staff and so on. You were you were telling about something, Will?
00:35:00
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. I love the Bucketies Reels. they're They're really fun. ah There was a good one last year where I talked to owner Nick about how many glasses the staff tend to break and how he's always...
00:35:13
Speaker
hearing these these glasses shatter and things behind the bar and calculating the the number, the cost of the business in his head. And it's a really fun sort of way he talks about the staff. and And, yeah, it's a good behind-the-scenes look of the taproom.
00:35:28
Speaker
Yeah, nice. we're Well done to Bucketies. But for our winner this month, and I just want to read part of this nomination out to you. This is for a brewery in Canberra, Cypher Brewing, our winner this month of the Bluestone Yeast Brewery the Month.
00:35:44
Speaker
um They're just doing some great stuff in Canberra, which as we know is sort of the home of capital and Benspoke. They're really breaking into that market and and making making waves. Sorry, just quickly, they only launched in 2023 and it was interesting when we did our end of year chat that all the people we sort of spoke to in the area kind of said, wow, they've really made themselves stand out in a town that has for a while been um known for two really, really good craft breweries. So you kind of wonder...
00:36:14
Speaker
where others can fit. ah It's a great brew pub, but they also have a really um frequent release schedule, making some pretty but new modern craft beers and things like that.
00:36:24
Speaker
Well, one thing that that caught my attention in the nomination for Cypher Brewing Co, as part of Canberra's National Multicultural Festival, huge event, 100,000 people come along. Head brewer from Cypher, Matt Teal, partnered with local Ngunnawal elder Richie Allen to create a drink called Una, Y-U-N-A, which means welcome greetings in the Ngunnawal language.
00:36:48
Speaker
It's a brewed ginger beer infused with native ingredients. um They invited the public into the brewery to meet Richie and hear about local country and culture. ah Then with permission and guided by Richie, they took off into the nature parks surrounding the brewery and foraged for native ingredients to go into the brew.
00:37:06
Speaker
So, you know, if we're talking about reconciliation, about culture, about that kind of sense of community and belonging, I think that's a fantastic little initiative. And this this month's win for...
00:37:17
Speaker
Bluestone Yeast Brew the Month to Cypher Brewing Co in Canberra. Yeah, great. I would also say that I believe Cypher may have campaigned a little bit on that one, um which is within the rules. so you You are allowed to do that. You can ask people to vote for you. um So, yeah, might ah we we might see where this snowballs to. Hopefully we're not running a Gabs 2.0 sometime soon for East.
00:37:40
Speaker
You never know. You never know well. Awesome, mate. Cheers. Cheers. Thanks to our Brewery of the Month partner, Bluestone Yeast.
00:37:54
Speaker
If you'd like to find out more, visit bluestoneyeast.com.au today. Welcome back. And Chris, do you want to tell us about these two beers that made you know what Banks was?
00:38:05
Speaker
Yeah, I think while we spoke about one before was McConaughey's. um So Hazy Pale 5.1% I believe it was back then. um Yeah, people just really liked it. it was It's still our beer good times now is sort of a version of that. We've kind of gone away from it.
00:38:24
Speaker
in some senses and then actually bring it back to be kind of more in line with what McConaughey's was in recent times. And it's doing real well, probably our high selling beer.
00:38:36
Speaker
And then also Cake Eater series was like that. That beer is definitely one that just, I don't know, it gave us like a ah bit of a following and it's it's still to this day sells out within, well,
00:38:51
Speaker
within probably seven days of us releasing it. And it's not what it was during COVID, it was selling out. Well, I think one of them- 10, seven minutes. i won No, I think one of them sold out in five minutes or something. It was crazy. Yeah, it was out of control.
00:39:02
Speaker
And for the handful people that might not know what Cake Eater is, because this has become a series, what's the style? So it's an oat cream, double IPA. yeah yeah um Yeah, it's pretty big, chewy sort of. I mean, soft and juicy beer, but yeah, it's definitely not a session beer. There are only many people who've been brewing a beer like that for six years and it's still selling out whenever they release it as well. Nah, yeah, it's got a little bit a cult following it, which is kind of cool. Very cool.
00:39:28
Speaker
um And yeah, it's something that we you know we put a lot of effort into. We try and make everyone you know as good or better than the last. We've got a couple of pretty exciting ones this year coming. So yeah, I think and people will be into them.
00:39:44
Speaker
And is it, you know, hops you're loving at the moment hop products? Like what, what sort of driving that side of that relief? Cake Eater specifically, we actually haven't added any of the newer hop products.
00:39:56
Speaker
Cake Eater is pretty much only a T90 and Cryo beer. um It's something that I like to play around with, but wouldn't call it Cake Eater just for, you know, to keep it the way it is and keep it itself, you know, at least for the first one or two.
00:40:08
Speaker
Um, we are playing around a lot of new hot products though, and, and really liking the results of some of them. Um, like specific like Dyna Boost, um, Incognito, Hyper Boost is cool too.
00:40:19
Speaker
Um, we've played around with most of them, but they're probably the three that we're sort of using the most. What do each of those do for the beer? Ignorito, is that for the bittering, is that right? Or? Incognito. Oh, so it depends what way use it. We use it maybe a little bit differently to some some people.
00:40:34
Speaker
It's predominantly a Whirlpool product. yeah um We use it mostly on knockout, um but not in the Whirlpool. So we're knocking it into a tank and then knock out the beer on top of it. um where like something There's lot of hazy beers that we use us those products in. We're sort of more using them in the West Coast and the Kelly's and stuff like that. And I think all three of them, you could use all three them as one together. They all need T90 as well.
00:40:59
Speaker
And then if you want to add cryo as well, great. So these are all liquid hot products? Yeah, all liquid products. And what's the benefit there? Is it getting a cleaner or more controllable or more efficient? What is it you like about this? Yeah, I mean, lot of people would like them for the yield purposes. You don't have as much trub in the bottom of the whirlpool or the kettle. We don't really run on that sort of emphasis for us. We're more to more It really gives ah hop saturation that we like. which And if we're not using them in a beer, we will add these days, and within the last six months, we're adding way more, like three to four times more T90 or Cryo into the Whirlpool or into the boil than what we used to.
00:41:42
Speaker
We used to do hazy beers that would have nothing at all in the in the boil or whirlpool and just purely dry hop, which to me, they're just a little bit lacking these days, especially flat, like a little bit flabby or lacking. They need a bit of that like sort of texture, yeah balanced hop profile, but like hop saturation is something that we really sort of try and push that it's like a punch of flavor, but then dissipates. yeah So, and i I think a lot of those hot products give that, they give a real upfront character.
00:42:13
Speaker
but not a lingering character. And have you tried brewing just with them and without any T9, you know, any any pellets? No, we haven't with them from pretty much all the research I've been given from, know, all that pop supplies.
00:42:28
Speaker
And also we did make a beer a couple of years ago, which was 100% cryo and it wasn't great. Okay. There's been a couple of, i guess, experimentalists that have come out and you try them and they're just...
00:42:42
Speaker
They almost taste like fake in a way. You need that you need that natural, actual vegetal product in there to yeah make it feel real in some ways. It seems to me. Yeah, yeah. I think it just, it it makes it a more complete beer if you've got, I think but you don't have to have cryo in every beer, I think.
00:42:59
Speaker
If you're making a hoppy beer, you should at least have 10 on in there in some form or another. So, but yeah, it's, they're, they're fun. They're cool to play with. Like, I think they're giving, you know, a lot more, i we don't necessarily use them in hazy beers. Cause I like, we're not seeing a lot of that, like juicy characteristic necessarily in them.
00:43:18
Speaker
Um, I think there's ways to get that, yeah but yeah, they're working really well in, in West Coast and Cali style IPAs for us. And I guess you know with the with the hazies, i having been one of the first on to the hazy beers and the Oat Creams, it would have been almost like but Wild West, I guess, in the early days. We were trying to work work out exactly how to make them the best ways. like Have there been any sort of key learnings that you've had over the years going, and there's these processes or these hops or these things work? you know That's essentially making one of these beers work really well, really pop.
00:43:50
Speaker
yeah i mean the Honestly, we're still changing. We have a process that we follow, but if there's something new that we find out about or we think we should try, we're definitely open to trying then.
00:44:06
Speaker
we used to use a huge amount of oats probably going away from that we're using a lot more wheat these days um as i said before we used to not put any hops you know on the hot side of whirlpool for a lot of beers these days we're adding a lot more it's just making more you know a fuller more textured beer um but then yeah obviously there's pretty much Every IPA we make has at least a little bit citra in it.
00:44:33
Speaker
That's for a few reasons. yeah Citra is like salt. You kind of need it. But also we have a lot contracted, so we're going to get through it. I think I've got a pull quote for the... yeah from now and citrus I was going to say, and surely a bit of mosaic as well. But Chris, you sort of alluded to it a bit with kind of tweaking the core range as well. Is that something you quiet you sort of always...
00:44:56
Speaker
doing I'm imagining based on your personality, you' you're kind of moving those beers a fair bit. Yeah. Yeah. Look, happy. Yeah, for sure. now We we are always, as I said but earlier, we can always make it better.
00:45:06
Speaker
And I think, I think we can always make it better. And I don't think we will ever make, no, I know we will never make the perfect beer, which is, which is cool and exciting. It's, you know, it's,
00:45:17
Speaker
It's nice to try new things, you know, when you find new, figure out new techniques or read about it or, you know, find a new hot product that you think, oh, that could work in this beer a lot better. But yeah, it's, we're always changing them.
00:45:30
Speaker
We're always keeping them themselves as as the core beer that they are. but um But yeah, if there's a new way, like the amount of times that we've changed the hop like the hop ratio, the the actual hops themselves in a core beer, they'll still be in there in some form, but you know, we may be on our West Coast IPA used to use 15 kilos of Galaxy and 10 kilos of Citra in the Whirlpool. And now that could be no Galaxy. And you know, it's just, just changing things around to to sort of, yeah, just get a, try and get a better product.
00:46:04
Speaker
It's what I'm making most drinkable. you know, hop flavoured product, hop filled product we can. And that would change every year with the hops as well. yeah So every harvest is different. So you you go to make that beer that you're the way you've made it, you know, for the last couple of months, and it's completely different. So there's always things to adjust and adapt and yeah, make sure you're getting the the best flavour and yeah.
00:46:26
Speaker
Or new malt, you know, we often change up, you know, our malt suppliers for different reasons that we'll, know, we're always happy to try something new or something different. So if someone comes into us and, you we'll try it in Lumbeer and really the results and that could mean, well, unfortunately that supplier doesn't get a lot of malt off us anymore because we're going to go with this one. And yeah, it's, um it's always changing. But I think, I think like, honestly, I think that's what craft beer should be.
00:46:51
Speaker
Like you want, the same thing if you're trying to buy the same beer, but you're not going to comp complain if it's better. Yeah, true. And that's, you know, we're not doing these changes to make them worse. um We will always do it to make it better.
00:47:04
Speaker
If it doesn't make it better, we won't sell it. Yeah. So. Sure. Now you, I know you've both to enjoying lot of West Coast pills and on the drive down here, we were trying to think, you know, you were very early on I guess the hazy beers, hazy IPAs kind of thing, but also Back in 2018, wrote up your Venice Pils, which was a West Coast Pilsner six years before we even wrote an article about them. you know And I guess it was only really last year, and maybe the year before they really started getting traction over here.
00:47:32
Speaker
So how come you made one you know almost seven years ago? um I don't know. I think. and And were you into them back then as well? Or were you still in your West Coast har ice space back then? No, no, no. was still in my West Coast IPA space then. Yeah, yeah. I think, you know, especially in the early days, we were happy and willing to try anything and everything. Yeah. And like literally anything and everything. and We did like brown IPAs and all sorts of stuff that no one wants.
00:47:57
Speaker
um But... it's It would have had to have come off, you know, Penny said before, we try and go overseas and see what's going on out there in the world. And I'm assuming it came off a beer that I had somewhere, probably on the West Coast in And then, yeah, we just came back and put together a recipe and and thought we'd give it a crack. And and like we made that quite a few times here. It was it was fairly popular yeah um and went out to wholesale.
00:48:22
Speaker
it You know, it wasn't... I don't know if people knew what it was. I still don't know if people do. And I really want them to because i yeah it's a style that I hope just grows yeah in leaps and bounds. It's my favorite thing to drink at the moment. has been the last 12 months or so.
00:48:40
Speaker
um Yeah, it's just all the good things. It's lager, which is amazing. well, because you were sort of getting ah into lagers as well, I guess, before. mean, we probably wrote a piece like the lager in Iceland maybe seven years ago, but it seems take a while for that to really pull through to where we are now, where there was, what, 15, 16 lagers in the hottest 100, but it used to be one, you know, 10 years ago.
00:48:59
Speaker
that was something you were doing for a while as well. but um You were doing like Natsons and sort of Helles and foam and beers like that sort of. more traditional European. And Penny was going, stop it, I don't like it. Where's the hops? Enough, enough. She doesn't want a dark lager. Yeah, don't want a dark lager. There's two stops of lagers. don't like beer that tastes like traditional beer. It's Yeah, it's, yeah, we, look, I still, we still make all those, you know, lagers seasonally. We, you know, we've got amber lager coming out next week.
00:49:29
Speaker
um And then, you know, we'll do a Vienna lager because we always do every sort of May-ish and then and then do some Oktoberfest stuff. And obviously we've got Foam, which is our core pilsner, which is sort of taking a little bit of a backseat to our house lager at the moment, um which again is a more sort of traditional style lager. But i one I think when I went to Hop Selection in 2016,
00:49:53
Speaker
twenty twenty two twenty three three three three three yeah Yeah, I kind of fell back in love with hops a bit and um just drinking fresh sort of like whether it be West Coast pills or what we call Kelly IPA and they call West Coast IPA because West Coast IPA over there now is so different what it used to be. um And we actually got a co-lab coming up in like two months with the guys at Humble Sea who we've done a couple with from Santa Cruz that just come from a relationship. We went there couple of times and yeah then got in contact with them. And then I've met Nick since and yeah. And ah so he said, yeah, put together a recipe for me. And he said, this is exactly a recipe we would brew, but it's a West Coast South. Yeah, bro.
00:50:39
Speaker
It's not a tele-IPE. I was like, yeah, I know, but we have to differentiate here because there's too much. I think there's still too many people that, you know, like a West Coast IPA has to be this. So, yeah, it's...
00:50:52
Speaker
it's It's a style that's just so good. ah Yeah, well, what is it that two of you love about west Coast Pills and what is it that really appeals to you? and I think for me, you get so much hops, but it's still really drinkable. You're not sort of having one beer and going, oh, that's so intense. I love having a K-Keita, but you have one and you're like, all right, the four pack will last me one a day for the next four days.
00:51:14
Speaker
Whereas this, you can just drink and drink and you still get only all that flavour, but you're not, you know, just overwhelmed getting overwhelmed or getting, you know, yeah really full, that full feeling with oats that you get. So I just love that it's, you know, you're getting all the the benefits and you can have a few more than what you normally would. Yeah. Yeah.
00:51:33
Speaker
I think so for sure. And I mean, you know, visually there, appealing looking beer. yeah They're generally fairly clear. They smell amazing if they're you know made well. They're just jumping with hops and then yeah you get that pack of flavour straight up front. Just punch. and then but just Super, super clean. like We try keeping pretty lean but and as I said before, I think Um, off air there, there, there's a sweet spot, but we find for the ABV, which is sort of, they benefit from being a little bit rounder. I think the hop oils can contribute to that as well, but they definitely have that bit of roundness without being fat. think the malt presence and the alcohol definitely help, help carry the hops. So yeah, it's yeah.
00:52:13
Speaker
Buy more West Coast pills. Cause you're not going to stop making them. It's the best of both worlds. can't drink it all. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Try. Yeah, yeah. And how do you keep across?
00:52:24
Speaker
what's you know what is new and exciting obviously you are going to America a bit is it mostly those trips you're really scouting and you're keeping across what breweries to check into or supplies as well like because you do often seem to be very early to a lot of things yeah yeah it's definitely a lot of the trips that we take um I'm you know As we said before, I don't brew it a lot anymore. So I do a lot of research, like, you know, in some weeks I'll feel like I've done nothing.
00:52:50
Speaker
And literally I've just been the internet looking at what's going on, you know, whether that be, know, America and New Zealand anywhere. So it's, it's a huge part of it is is going out and trying new things and seeing what everyone else is doing.
00:53:04
Speaker
Yeah, definitely suppliers, you know, getting sent stuff from them on what hot products are coming and then You know, you kind of, you get your head around how to make beers on your system and, you know, they'll send you this and go, this will work in this way.
00:53:17
Speaker
and you might pull that apart and and sort of change it a little bit to make it work for you guys. But yeah, it's that they have been a lot more helpful in the last year, couple of years for us anyway, think maybe I've been a little more open to it.
00:53:29
Speaker
Yeah. I'm happy for anyone to give me ideas. I'm running out. The Australian beer industry is guinea pig. They're ready to take anything. Well, and you mentioned before your upcoming collaboration. I guess that's been one of the key things, I guess, that's devoted to the last 10, 15 years within craft beer as a whole, but something you've probably enjoyed, like a lot of collaborations and friendships.
00:53:52
Speaker
around Australia but overseas. um you know Is that something that you actively look for or were expecting to happen with beer or just sort of has happened sort of almost by osmosis as you put yourselves out there? Definitely didn't expect it to happen. um and we I feel like all of our collabs, I've sort of been pretty like steadfast with them. It recently may be a little different, but I never really wanted to do collab with someone that just hit us up and said, Hey, we should do a collab. I like to, I kind of like to have, make a relationship there and have it like, it's kind of like how we've built this business with like organically, let it grow and do that.
00:54:30
Speaker
I like to have the friendship first and then we go, Hey, we should make a beer together because we're mates. I like, I actually, he might not remember this, but Nick from One Drop hit me up the first time he ever hit me He was like, Hey, we do a collab. And I was like,
00:54:42
Speaker
Yeah, kind of like to get to know people first. I love Nick. Nick's one of my best mates in the industry now and he's he's like he's the absolute man. I'll do anything for him. But at the time, I feel so bad about it. I think that's also so different to Chris's approach. Chris is very laid back, very um quite quiet in nature. yeah So he's not the sort of person that would rock up, for example, to Humble Sea in America and like,
00:55:09
Speaker
Hi, I've got a brewery in Australia. I love you beer. He'll go quietly taste everything. Take some things, leave, and then reach out later and say, look, yeah, but that's very his style. So I think he sort of appreciates that in other people too. let let's let let me Let me show you that I actually really appreciate your beer and I really like what you're doing and kind of, you know, cite some things I've tasted and lets let's have a chat first and then we can sort of build that relationship from there. And that that really just then strengthens the bonds where we're We're going to weddings, you know, in Queensland with the range guys and we're, you know, that they are like real mates. Yeah, some of our best friends. yeah Friends we met from the beer industry for sure. and Yeah, the amount of collaboration like is phenomenal. I've never seen another industry where people can call someone up and be like, I've run out of hops.
00:55:56
Speaker
I know there's none left on the market. Can I buy 50 kilos? And someone will go yep, 100. have it at the cost, come and grab it. It's just, it's really, really cool. And I think it's kept it, you know, together during, you know, the hard times as well, that people have been able to call up and say, our sales are shocking, they're X, Y, Z, we're down 20% too. Okay.
00:56:16
Speaker
And it just gives you a bit of reassurance in, you know, termic turbulent times that, You're still on the right track. Keep fighting the fight. We're all in it together. And it's really just refreshing. yeah There's a lot of good people in the industry, isn't there? So you can get reminded of that going, yes, it's really tough, but oh my God, there's good people doing a lot of really good things. you know Someone will host a cool party or someone will put on like you juicy and we can all go up and relax and have fun and and yeah, do something like that.
00:56:41
Speaker
Yeah. There's always something going Collaborations are particularly if fun when you don't have to brew as well. I don't have to brew here. No, exactly. You can invite people down at the Brewers' Don't Work and just enjoy yourself.
00:56:52
Speaker
did Did you find that there are good opportunities mainly for marketing or branding or just for having a yeah good time together? Or if you found that you've learned or maybe taught yeah people with new knowledge of whatever from it working with other breweries or try new ingredients or techniques that you may not have thought of or they may not have thought of and they've looked at what what you're doing and gone, we'll nick that from Chris. Oh, 100%. Yeah, we definitely, I would say both. We definitely get heaps of, you know inspo and, you know, information about how to do things from other breweries for sure.
00:57:22
Speaker
um that's probably a little less now than what but it was in the early days. The early days I'd walk out of a brew day going, all right, literally writing in notes. What did he say again earlier? Taking photos of the brew sheet. And I'm happy to sort of give you that same back to anyone that asks now that we do one with. But um yeah, a huge amount of information. The marketing side, yeah, obviously it's...
00:57:45
Speaker
Barking is interesting one these days. It's not what it used to be on the social platforms, especially for for beer. But um yeah, I think you get a bump from any of that, definitely. And yeah anyone, there's there's some people on our list still that we really want to do some collabs with, but as say, I'm not just going to hit them up. They're going to work out who they are. At least have a beer first and then we can talk. And what about navigating what's been going on in the industry? You did expand a couple of years ago production. Like how have you sort of felt you've weathered this time in the industry.
00:58:17
Speaker
Yeah, it's been, it's been fun. that's it i I wouldn't say that I'm an overly stressed person, but like last year was probably one of the more stressful years I've ever had um for not just, you know, just some other things going on, but yeah, mostly, mostly to do with, to do business. um And, you know, we're still fine. So that's,
00:58:37
Speaker
I think we're lucky in that sense. But yeah, it's been it's it's been a tough one. um There's no way that really should go there. But we've just tried other things.
00:58:48
Speaker
We've looked at places that we you know haven't been selling beer and looked at other avenues, you sporting clubs and you tried a bunch of wineries and, you can we make a beer for these guys and sell it to them and let them use it as their own or little things like that. And that's definitely helped. It hasn't, you know, made the gap. Export as well has helped a beer.
00:59:09
Speaker
They sort of, you know, they take kind of what maybe that extra bit that we were selling online that we are now doing. um it's not We don't do huge amounts of export, but, you know, there's There's at least every month an order going to some export.
00:59:25
Speaker
Southeast Asia mostly. Yeah. It's Taiwan, Thailand, Japan, Hong Kong, Singapore, and China. Do you get to go and support those export sales as well? We haven't yet. Okay. Yeah. I hope we do get to. It's definitely a plan.
00:59:38
Speaker
Yeah. A ton of them. But yeah, we've, you know we only started doing it probably year. 18 months ago. And yeah, it's been good. And that was probably one of the things, you know, brew house upgrade that gives us the capacity to do some of these things because your margins are quite small on them, but you've got to sort of look at it from, well, if you're making bigger batches of beer, yeah you know, economies of scale help.
00:59:59
Speaker
So it's sort of about, well, yep, we can send some beer there. And um we're always very, we always prefer, you know, we'll never jeopardise the Australian market because, know, you know overseas necessarily wanted it. It's always, we know it's going to be freshest and best here, so we'll always sort of keep that as our number one priority, but it definitely has helped with just keeping that production numbers at a good levels. Yeah, ticking over. Yeah. yeah Because, I mean, at the moment, we probably didn't need the the size of the expansion that we did,
01:00:28
Speaker
but In saying that, I think it was the right time to, to, you know, change the brew house over. I think the beer coming out of it's a much better product. So we, we didn't make the the wrong decision there by any means.
01:00:39
Speaker
Um, we're just, you know, we can make a lot more beer. So if you guys drink it, we can make it. Just ninety kind bills just guy you didn't put a house yeah, yeah um well we yeah yeah we'll past the present future yeah finalli Yeah, so we like to sort of look at the past, present, in the future, of the end. So first off, I mean, what's one thing you really wish you had have known coming into this?
01:01:05
Speaker
That we were going to have... Making the brewery, not this this interview. but Probably that we were going Our bar was going to be such a ah major part of the business. um If we hadn't known that, I definitely would have put the brewery in a different location.
01:01:20
Speaker
um Not in a different town or anything like that, but just somewhere that was a little bit more, know... We get some foot traffic because we're getting up. We are very much a destination. you have to know You have to be coming here or know where we are to come here. So it's, um yeah, it's it's a huge part of of of what we are and who we are now. And yeah, that wasn't originally planned. So.
01:01:41
Speaker
you have retained the people that came to the cellar door, you know, as long Most of the least, you know, we don't see them necessarily as much as we used to. It's funny. We have like every, probably two or three years, it's like a reset of regulars. Like there's, you know, there's still a very core type, maybe 10 to 20 people that, you know, might, you might not see for a while and then they'll come back and they've been coming for like nine years. And they feel like family. yeah But there is literally a group, I reckon can a group change every two or three years where you get a new thing of regulars and then...
01:02:13
Speaker
They disappear and then they become part of that core 20 that only come back sort of once every six months. Got a bit yeah something i on age their kids yeah and they if someone was coming into the industry now, is there any advice you'd give to them?
01:02:30
Speaker
I think the way we've grown has been a really good way to do things. I get that you can go in and get a lot of investors and go and put the biggest, best things to start. But I think starting small and taking two steps forward, one step back, it's actually it's a really good way to grow because you can adapt quick. So if things change and, you know, hobby beers are now out and this is in, you've got the ability to pivot a bit more. um And so I think for us it's always been a... Yeah, two steps forward, you know, just hire small and start there. I do sometimes get jealous of the breweries that have, you know, started with a huge system and everything's, you know, amazing. But I think having those, you know, and starting small and staying in that small range, you can really...
01:03:12
Speaker
adapt to what your customers want. And it's just been a sort of a really good way to grow and and feel like we can be really experimental and not have to think, oh we've got so much of this one beer to move.
01:03:23
Speaker
We now can't make that really cool beer with that new ingredient. So I think for us, the size of that has been yeah given us a lot of freedom to take risks, but also sort of being like a quite safe zone of, you know, adapting and and growing. Yeah, if you want to try something, we can do it tomorrow. hey Like if we've got a tank that available, we can order the ingredients and we can try it next week. So that's ah that's also a way to be one of the first to do something. We don't have to necessarily do it around a production schedule because our production schedule is very loose. yeah so And do you have a big wish or hope for beer into the future?
01:04:00
Speaker
I hope beer gets... the fun back into it that I feel like it had. maybe coming into COVID and then even coming out of it. um Yeah, it was an amazingly fun place to be, an industry to work in. Like you'd go to beer festivals and just everyone was having such a good time, you know, the hype around new beers and stuff like that, that might not necessarily be there.
01:04:27
Speaker
I don't think that's going to come back. If it does, great. um But yeah, I think if we could get, you know, just the fun and feel back into the industry. Do think the fun partly because there has been less occasion to get together?
01:04:43
Speaker
i kind of feel that when you do get people together, it's like, oh, yeah it's so great to see you again. And, you know, even starting this podcast, you know, just talking to people like about their lives and what they do, it's like, oh, my God, everyone's so amazing and yeah and what they do and there's all these incredible stories out there and we kind of, you always know that but maybe we've become our own little islands to an extent over the last few years and you sort of forget and you just sort of need that that reconnection and yeah i maybe people were having more money to spend as well would you would not. yes I think yes that's the one. Yeah, I reckon yeah just getting that far and that's what we hope that like it starts reinvigorating and I don't know whether that's trying to get some of the you know younger market
01:05:24
Speaker
involved and how how you work with that and get that that energy into the market or whether it's yet some new crazy things coming out that sort of spark that again or just successful beer parties and and those sorts of things that i post COVID, well, you know, every couple of months we'd be somewhere around Australia you doing those. And obviously the viability of them has dropped a bit. So there's sort of less going on, but yeah, a few more of those and you sort of boost that mood and that like Australian collaboration.
01:05:54
Speaker
yeah Crafty Pints 50th anniversary coming up later in the year. A bit of pressure on us. Let's do it. Parties around the country. And West Coast bills. And a lot West Coast bills. And only West Coast bills. Chris and Penny, thank you so much for joining us.
01:06:06
Speaker
Thanks for having us, guys. It's been great. Thank you. Cheers. Cheers.
01:06:13
Speaker
One of the best things about this craft beer industry of ours is the way everyone shares, collaborates and lends a helping hand when needed. But as so often happens, those good deeds can sometimes go unnoticed.
01:06:23
Speaker
Well, now with the support of Rowling's Labels Stickers and Packaging, who are themselves known for their outstanding service and strong relationships with the industry, we're delighted to give every good beer citizen a bit of well-deserved recognition. We're calling on you to nominate anyone who's gone out of their way to help you out.
01:06:40
Speaker
It doesn't matter how big or small, it's just ah a wonderful way to give that person or business a shout out and thank you. We'll highlight the best nominees on the Crafty Pint podcast and lucky winners of the Dunner Rowling's Good Deed will win a Rowling's gift voucher and earn a big thumbs up from friends and colleagues. So what are you waiting for? Give that good deed a shout out.
01:07:02
Speaker
Head to craftypint.com forward slash railings and nominate today.
01:07:09
Speaker
The Crafty Pint podcast is produced and edited by Matt Hoffman. You can get all your beer related news and reviews on the Crafty Pint website,
01:07:23
Speaker
We wouldn't be able to produce the podcast or the
01:07:45
Speaker
Visit craftycabal.com for more. And until next time, drink good beer. you