Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
![007 - Overthinking Everything in Campus Housing | Jasmine Jennings and Sara Frick [Book Club] image](https://media.zencastr.com/cdn-cgi/image/width=54,quality=85/image-files/605db9539a00e40074826685/733e7e3d-9d73-4dce-9fd9-65d29d14b4dd.)
007 - Overthinking Everything in Campus Housing | Jasmine Jennings and Sara Frick [Book Club]
3 Plays3 years ago
Today our guests use the book Soundtracks: The Surprising Solution to Overthinking as a vehicle to discuss those inevitable rabbit holes within our mind that every campus housing professional has fallen down at one time or another. Our guests today are two self-described overthinkers, Jasmine Jennings and Sara Frick, who reveal an important truth: you aren’t the only person overthinking your work in campus housing. Takeaways directly from the book include overthinking as a dial versus a switch and questions we should be asking when we find ourselves overthinking things. From there, they provide plenty of real examples related to working in campus housing and cover a range of topics including toxic positivity, imposter syndrome, committee work, performance evaluations, office culture, and the additional overthinking associated with navigating the work environment as a Person of Color. Even if you haven’t read the book, I’m sure you’ll find something to overthink about within this episode.
Be Sure to Thank Our Guests!
Connect with Jasmine on Facebook
Transcript Available!
In February at the 2022 Annual Conference, the SWACUHO Executive Board approved additional funding for the podcast to be allocated for transcription services. This is the first episode to have a transcript provided for people who would like to read the conversation. Moving forward, all episodes will be released with a transcript and all past episodes will have a transcript uploaded by the end of March.
Seeking professional advice? Fill out this anonymous form and a panel of housing staff will give you their take on your situation on an upcoming podcast.
People, Places, and Things Mentioned in This Episode
Soundtracks: The Surprising Solution to Overthinking [Book]
Baylor University [University Website]
Southern Methodist University [University Website]
The University of Texas at Arlington [University Website]
Make Your Bed (Admiral McRaven – UT Austin Commencement Address 2014) [YouTube Video]
The University of Texas at Austin [University Website]
“It’s Just a Job” [News Article]
Beyoncé [Instagram]
Taylor Swift [Instagram]
Michelle Obama [Instagram]
Upstream: The Quest to Solve Problems Before They Happen [Book]
Understanding the Expectations of Students with Autism to Increase Satisfaction with the On-Campus Living Experience [Journal Article]
Recommended![025 - Fun Topics from the ACUHO-I Community Forum | Joel Gatti [Feature Topic] image](https://media.zencastr.com/cdn-cgi/image/width=112,quality=85/image-files/605db9539a00e40074826685/733e7e3d-9d73-4dce-9fd9-65d29d14b4dd.)
Transcript
Introduction to Swakuho Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome to the Swakuho podcast.
00:00:02
Speaker
I'm your host, JC Stoner.
00:00:04
Speaker
Today we are talking about overthinking things.
00:00:07
Speaker
So if you're someone who tends to overthink things, this episode is sure to validate that you aren't the only one.
00:00:13
Speaker
Our guests today discuss the book Soundtracks, The Surprising Solution to Overthinking by John Acuff.
00:00:19
Speaker
We apply the concepts to the housing work environment with plenty of real examples with the hope of articulating how we can all flip our personal thought processes to be more productive rather than diving headfirst down the rabbit hole of negative and unproductive thoughts.
00:00:33
Speaker
I'm not going to overthink this intro, so let's jump right in.
Introducing the Guests
00:00:37
Speaker
Our first guest is Jasmine Jennings, who serves as the assistant director for the Dedman College Interdisciplinary Institute at Southern Methodist University.
00:00:46
Speaker
Jasmine was born and raised in Detroit, Michigan, and says she will forever be a Detroiter.
00:00:52
Speaker
Jasmine went to Bowling Green State University and Mississippi State University for undergraduate and graduate school work.
00:00:58
Speaker
Jasmine formerly worked in housing at Baylor University and is now happily enjoying her time living on at Southern Methodist University's campus with her fiance, who is also a res lifer.
00:01:09
Speaker
Jasmine, welcome to the show.
00:01:12
Speaker
Thank you for having me.
00:01:13
Speaker
I'm glad to be here.
00:01:15
Speaker
Our second guest today is Sarah Frick, who is a sixth year professional currently working at the University of Texas at Arlington as an assistant director for apartment and residence life.
00:01:25
Speaker
Sarah's background in higher ed has been from both private and public institutions working for residence life.
00:01:31
Speaker
And she is very passionate about the student experience on campus.
00:01:36
Speaker
Sarah loves to read and read more than 50 books in 2021.
00:01:39
Speaker
Sarah, welcome to the show.
00:01:43
Speaker
Thanks, JC.
00:01:44
Speaker
Thanks for having me.
Book's Practicality in Campus Housing
00:01:46
Speaker
So what are your overall general impressions of the book soundtracks?
00:01:51
Speaker
Overall, I think that the concept of the book is really fascinating.
00:01:56
Speaker
I think that's something that everybody can relate to.
00:02:00
Speaker
You know, everybody overthinks things, especially since reading the book.
00:02:05
Speaker
I've noticed a lot of like, Sarah, you're overthinking this and you start to it becomes more aware to you.
00:02:11
Speaker
those things.
00:02:12
Speaker
And so I think overall, the concept is fascinating.
00:02:15
Speaker
I think there's some really good things that we can dive into a little bit more on how people overthink and what that looks like.
00:02:23
Speaker
But yes, overall, the concept is great.
00:02:27
Speaker
I think maybe some of the practicality will be interesting to dive into of what is practical pieces or things that you can take away from it.
00:02:34
Speaker
But I think
00:02:35
Speaker
depending on the person, some people would find it super practical and other people might find it not.
00:02:41
Speaker
But the concepts, very fascinating.
00:02:45
Speaker
Yeah, I found the practicality like you similar in the sense of like a lot of the examples were about writing a book and being a bestseller, which when you break down is a little bit hard to translate to our work in campus housing.
00:03:00
Speaker
I think there's plenty of good examples that I was able to easily say, oh, we can slide insert campus housing in here.
00:03:06
Speaker
But it was a little touchy feely or like
00:03:10
Speaker
a little too positive for my personality, but I think there's also value in exploring that, which I challenged myself to do.
Biases in Overthinking for Black Women
00:03:18
Speaker
Yes, definitely.
00:03:19
Speaker
Hopefully I am not the devil's advocate on the podcast today.
00:03:26
Speaker
Please be if you are.
00:03:29
Speaker
So I think overall, the book provided general solutions to overthinking.
00:03:35
Speaker
But I did not see myself represented in this type of overthinking and in the book.
00:03:42
Speaker
And I also think the author didn't acknowledge biased systems and how that affects overthinking.
00:03:49
Speaker
And so when I think about myself as a Black woman and things I am told as a Black woman, that makes me overthink.
00:03:56
Speaker
And I think the concepts that he talked about on a surface level were good, but I wish he would have dug deeper to address some of the things that I experienced that causes my type of overthinking.
00:04:08
Speaker
Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up because I tried to process the practicality of like how it translates forever.
00:04:14
Speaker
It's like I really felt it wasn't like there was some of that like, oh, you're a bestselling author.
00:04:19
Speaker
And, you know, sounds like you've had a real challenging life or like these things.
00:04:25
Speaker
Not really.
00:04:25
Speaker
But so I'm glad you brought that up.
00:04:27
Speaker
And I definitely hope that we can dive into that a little bit more.
00:04:31
Speaker
Yeah.
00:04:32
Speaker
I also think that while it was not my favorite book I've ever read, that I think it's like conference presentations where sometimes you go to one that's just not good, but you can still take something from it, whether or not the content was what you expected.
00:04:48
Speaker
Oh, yeah, definitely.
00:04:49
Speaker
I, as I said, you know, I kept thinking through, oh, like, are you overthinking?
00:04:53
Speaker
And I think regardless of what I pulled from the book, I think it allowed me to take some focus on how I'm overthinking things and then how I can personally work on it myself, whether that's practical things from the book he talks about or other ways in which I want to do that.
00:05:08
Speaker
So I do think that there's something that you could easily pull away from this book for sure.
Metaphor of Soundtracks for Internal Thoughts
00:05:14
Speaker
Great.
00:05:14
Speaker
So why are we talking about soundtracks in our heads?
00:05:19
Speaker
He uses, the author, he uses this analogy of soundtracks of kind of similar to songs in a movie and the soundtracks of that and music that you listen to that that is...
00:05:34
Speaker
The internal, your thoughts are your internal soundtrack in your life.
00:05:38
Speaker
So, and that even more so the music, you listen to your thoughts all day, every day.
00:05:44
Speaker
And so that plays an impact on your attitude.
00:05:47
Speaker
So if you listen to a really...
00:05:49
Speaker
crappy song over and over again is going to put you in a bad mood.
00:05:53
Speaker
If you are listening to good songs, it's going to put you in a better mood.
00:05:56
Speaker
So he kind of uses this analogy of the soundtracks for your thoughts and how you're going through your day to day and how that impacts your actions and your life.
00:06:06
Speaker
I can't remember if it was an interview I heard with the author or it was in the book, but I remember hearing or seeing that if you think about just in a movie, a house, it's the soundtrack that really shapes the narrative of what's about to happen.
00:06:21
Speaker
Like if it's fun, loving music, it's like, oh, we're in a rom-com.
00:06:25
Speaker
But if it's like creepy, scary music, then it's like, oh, here we are at a horror movie.
00:06:32
Speaker
And that the picture doesn't change, but the soundtrack changes.
00:06:35
Speaker
shifts the context of what is actually going to be going on.
00:06:39
Speaker
Yeah, very true.
00:06:40
Speaker
They say, you know, if you, I don't like scary movies, so I don't watch them.
00:06:44
Speaker
But I've heard, you know, if you watch a scary movie without noise, it's not scary at all, because half or more of the scare of those movies comes from the music.
00:06:54
Speaker
Well, yeah, that's a perfect illustration of why we need to be mindful of the soundtracks we're playing in our head, because if we remove that, then things aren't as bad or they're not, they're going just fine, but we're deferring it to what a negative outcome that isn't necessarily the case.
00:07:13
Speaker
So I think that's a perfect illustration.
00:07:15
Speaker
Yeah, definitely.
Negative Thoughts in Campus Housing
00:07:17
Speaker
So what are some real examples of broken soundtracks you've heard in campus housing?
00:07:22
Speaker
So I actually wrote some down that I heard from past colleagues that I think it would be worth exploring.
00:07:30
Speaker
Some of the ones I wrote down were my residents or RAs don't like me like other hall directors.
00:07:37
Speaker
I'm bad at my job because I'm not chairing the most important committee in my department.
00:07:42
Speaker
I don't deserve to work in a new residence hall like a brand new one because it was given to another RHD.
00:07:49
Speaker
And then I think the...
00:07:51
Speaker
I think in thinking about COVID and all the things that have been happening, I can't apply for another job.
00:07:57
Speaker
I'll be abandoning my students or abandoning my department.
00:08:01
Speaker
I think those are the most consistent ones that I've heard since my time in residence life.
00:08:06
Speaker
I don't know if y'all have experienced those either.
00:08:10
Speaker
Yeah, I can definitely relate to those.
00:08:13
Speaker
I think a common thread with a lot of those that you were saying, Jasmine, is that comparison piece.
00:08:18
Speaker
I feel like, oh, compared to other RDs, RHDs, you know, this is where I stand.
00:08:26
Speaker
Oh, compared to other committees and things like that.
00:08:29
Speaker
And, you know, not every job or field has a lot of people on one level in the way that universities have, hall directors,
00:08:40
Speaker
And so I think that that plays an interesting piece in comparison and how that leads to people to overthink their position and their job.
00:08:47
Speaker
And, you know, it probably doesn't help either that, you know, you live where you work.
00:08:51
Speaker
And so you see up close and personal what all these things look like.
00:08:56
Speaker
And I think with being residence hall director specifically, it's, I don't want to say people feel like it's a competition, but I, I feel like that's it.
00:09:06
Speaker
And so, because you see all these things up close and personal, you know,
00:09:09
Speaker
you know, these are like your built-in friends.
00:09:12
Speaker
So you cannot help, but not only see what's happening to them professionally, but also see what's happening to them personally and think, oh, I'm not there yet.
00:09:20
Speaker
Or I'm not, you know, insert whatever the not is.
00:09:25
Speaker
Yeah, definitely.
00:09:26
Speaker
I think the competition piece is absolutely a good point.
00:09:29
Speaker
It's like somebody has something I don't.
00:09:31
Speaker
So either it's a deficit of like my ability or, you know, a
00:09:37
Speaker
a privilege of another person or whatever that might be.
00:09:41
Speaker
But it spins down that rabbit hole of, I'm never going to be good enough because I didn't get this one committee assignment.
00:09:47
Speaker
So why would I try harder for the next time around when there could be a hundred different reasons?
00:09:53
Speaker
I love those.
00:09:55
Speaker
The one, I love the thing about, I'm bad at my job because I'm not chairing the hot committee or however you phrased it.
00:10:01
Speaker
Like that's gold right there.
00:10:03
Speaker
I would have never thought about that one, but it's like,
00:10:06
Speaker
It's the hot committee to you, but there's, I know tons of people who don't want to be the chair of the training committee or recruitment committee or whatever it is.
00:10:13
Speaker
And now they're doing it.
00:10:15
Speaker
It's like, Oh, but you know what though?
00:10:17
Speaker
I think a lot of it depends on what the department places value on or what they assume the department places value on, but also to like training, for example, if you are chairing that, then, uh,
00:10:31
Speaker
the resident advisor, the resident assistant see you doing the said action.
00:10:37
Speaker
And so, you know, the student staff don't necessarily see what goes on behind the scenes.
00:10:43
Speaker
So like to you, it may seem like this is the hot committee, but like you said, for a couple others, they're like, I don't want to do this.
00:10:54
Speaker
Yeah, but then it's like, I'm in this position.
00:10:56
Speaker
I don't want to do it.
00:10:57
Speaker
It must be nice to be in a chair of a committee you don't want to be on that everybody else does.
00:11:04
Speaker
And the author talks about must be nice quite a bit.
00:11:07
Speaker
You know, I think there's a couple that come to my mind.
00:11:11
Speaker
One specifically for our live on positions.
00:11:15
Speaker
I think that balance and struggle of I live where I work and should I be out in the lobby of my building?
00:11:24
Speaker
And if I am not, then I'm
00:11:27
Speaker
Maybe my residents or my RAs, they don't think that I am invested or that I care or they don't think I work because I'm trying to set up these boundaries for my personal life and my personal well-being.
00:11:41
Speaker
And I think that that is often a big soundtrack of if I'm not active and present 100% of the time in my hall, I'm a bad residence director or hall director, whatever you call it at your institution.
00:11:53
Speaker
Definitely.
00:11:54
Speaker
And one I think that I caught when we were chatting before we started recording was the comment, and I hear it all the time, is like, it's housing.
00:12:02
Speaker
Anything can happen.
00:12:04
Speaker
And that soundtrack then plays as like, my day is going to suck or it's going to be chaotic because, well, it's housing and that's just the way it is.
00:12:12
Speaker
And I think that's a soundtrack that can certainly be unpacked.
00:12:16
Speaker
Yes, definitely.
00:12:17
Speaker
And I think at some point in the book, I don't remember, but he listed an example of that we start our day, you wake up and you already are thinking all the things that I need to accomplish for the day.
00:12:32
Speaker
And there's not enough time in that day to accomplish everything.
00:12:35
Speaker
So you automatically start off on the wrong foot and you have this bad attitude because I don't have enough time to get done everything.
00:12:42
Speaker
And how accurate is that, especially for housing and
00:12:45
Speaker
Or you come into your office and you have your whole plan for what you're going to do.
00:12:49
Speaker
And then you have a student in crisis and now you need to focus all your shift, all your focus over that way.
00:12:55
Speaker
And so that can really change your mindset for how your day is going to go.
Admiral McRaven's Speech on Small Victories
00:12:59
Speaker
Definitely.
00:13:00
Speaker
And former chancellor of the UT system, Admiral McRaven, gave a speech at UT Austin's commencement a number of years ago and talked about the value of making your bed.
00:13:12
Speaker
And what you just said made me think of this and how he talks about if you make your bed first thing in the morning, you automatically start with a victory and one small goal is accomplished, which then leads to accomplishing another and another and another.
00:13:24
Speaker
And I think that's one way to reframe that soundtrack of, you know, wake up in the morning and it's like, oh, I've just got so many things to do.
00:13:31
Speaker
I'll never get them done.
00:13:32
Speaker
It's like, oh, well, I've taken control of my destiny and I've made my bed.
00:13:36
Speaker
And that one small step has set me on a path to productivity today.
00:13:40
Speaker
What about performance evaluations?
00:13:42
Speaker
I imagine there's a lot of people out there that probably have sound, various soundtracks, either like, oh, I'm going to, my performance evaluation is going to be the best or more likely than not.
00:13:52
Speaker
Yeah.
00:13:53
Speaker
It's going to be terrible.
00:13:54
Speaker
Yeah.
00:13:55
Speaker
Yes.
00:13:56
Speaker
And you spend, and I think that the overthinking, you spend so much time leading up to this, okay, I'm going to have my evaluation.
00:14:03
Speaker
I'm going to sit down with my supervisor and they're going to tell me all these ways that I really am horrible or all these things.
00:14:10
Speaker
And then you sit down and
00:14:12
Speaker
Obviously, it's a performance eval, you're going to have areas of growth, but more than likely, you sit down and there's a lot of affirmation and what you're doing well, and the positivity of that.
00:14:22
Speaker
And so I know I've definitely been in those situations, and maybe not specifically evals, although I'm sure I've overthought evaluations, but those conversations with supervisors where it's like, I know I'm going to have this tough conversation because I
00:14:37
Speaker
was supposed to do XYZ and I didn't.
00:14:39
Speaker
And then the conversation is very, okay, well, you know, yeah, for next time, make sure you do this.
00:14:44
Speaker
And I built it up to be this big, huge thing.
00:14:46
Speaker
Oh my goodness.
00:14:47
Speaker
I'm going to spend hours unpacking this with my supervisor.
00:14:50
Speaker
They're going to think I'm a horrible human.
00:14:52
Speaker
And the same thing.
00:14:53
Speaker
Yeah.
00:14:53
Speaker
It's like, and then you get to evals and you dread about it.
00:14:56
Speaker
And then really you, okay, this is where we're at.
00:14:59
Speaker
And then we're going to move on to that.
00:15:01
Speaker
So yeah.
Anxiety in Performance Evaluations
00:15:02
Speaker
I remember this one time, and I don't even remember what the situation was, but a boss might ask, like, can you tell me about this oversight or what happened with this oversight?
00:15:13
Speaker
And it was in that moment, right then and there, it's like, oh, here we are.
00:15:16
Speaker
We're going to talk about this for 30 minutes.
00:15:17
Speaker
I was like, well, it was an oversight, just like you said.
00:15:21
Speaker
And the conversation was done.
00:15:22
Speaker
Like, I mean, there wasn't anything else to unpack or like, you know, developmentally process for 30 minutes.
00:15:27
Speaker
It was like,
00:15:28
Speaker
Oh, okay.
00:15:29
Speaker
There we go.
00:15:29
Speaker
Moving on.
00:15:30
Speaker
Yes.
00:15:31
Speaker
You're like, I spent days worrying about this conversation and it was done in 90 seconds.
00:15:35
Speaker
Yeah.
00:15:37
Speaker
Yeah, right.
00:15:38
Speaker
Exactly.
00:15:39
Speaker
That leads to another thing that it's like, do we really think you go into your performance value?
00:15:43
Speaker
We thought about it for days and days and days like, oh, it's been on my calendar for a week and now I got to do this and all these soundtracks playing in our head about it.
00:15:51
Speaker
And then it like goes just fine.
00:15:52
Speaker
And yeah, like you said, some areas of growth and a lot of affirmation.
00:15:56
Speaker
And then do we ever stop and think like, was it really worth all the time I invested thinking about that?
00:16:04
Speaker
And the negativity, like, I don't think people are processing that or if they are, it's very difficult to not do it again.
00:16:10
Speaker
Yes, that's so true.
00:16:12
Speaker
It's even though you almost always will come away from that.
00:16:16
Speaker
And I know I've even before reading this book, I'm like, I put way too much energy into thinking that through.
00:16:21
Speaker
But yet you find yourself every single time you're in a similar situation doing the exact same thing.
00:16:27
Speaker
Is there such a thing as productive overthinking?
00:16:30
Speaker
So I'd say yes and no.
00:16:34
Speaker
Yes, because as someone that is an overthinker, it gets you mentally prepared for all the obstacles that could come your way.
00:16:42
Speaker
So not saying that that's a good thing or a bad thing, but it just gets you mentally and maybe even emotionally prepared if something bad does happen.
00:16:52
Speaker
But on the flip side, is it good for your mental and emotional health?
00:16:57
Speaker
No.
00:16:57
Speaker
So is it productive?
00:16:59
Speaker
Technically, yes, but technically no.
00:17:04
Speaker
I feel like almost like you can find the silver lining to not real positive action.
00:17:11
Speaker
Like, oh, you can get to see lots of different outcomes or it can help you think through.
00:17:16
Speaker
But what is the other outcomes or negativity that impacts people?
Can Overthinking Be Productive?
00:17:23
Speaker
The point in the book that he makes about along these lines is turning those broken soundtracks into positive soundtracks and turning those positive soundtracks into action.
00:17:34
Speaker
And that's taking tangible steps to do things.
00:17:39
Speaker
Well, and I think the positivity piece is what I'm not, I don't outwardly emote very much.
00:17:45
Speaker
And I'm not necessarily the most positive appearing person in most contexts, but I'm not like a negative person.
00:17:53
Speaker
So the overwhelming positivity behind it was a little disconcerting for me.
00:17:58
Speaker
And I hear the term like toxic positivity quite a bit these days.
00:18:02
Speaker
And that phrase always bothers me just a little bit in terms of like, I don't know if it's toxic.
00:18:08
Speaker
Toxic?
00:18:08
Speaker
I get why people are saying that, but is it more unproductive than toxic?
00:18:13
Speaker
Is how I kind of like process that in my head.
00:18:16
Speaker
JC, to your point, I think I may have an explanation, maybe not an explanation, but just an alternative thought.
00:18:24
Speaker
Sure.
00:18:27
Speaker
Maybe toxicity may not be the word, but what I think about is like you experience positivity in a vacuum.
00:18:37
Speaker
And so you think of all the silver linings, you think of all the good, the fluffy things, the sweet things, the candy things, but you don't think about it in context to the world and what's actually happening in reality.
00:18:49
Speaker
And so I think it's a coping mechanism.
00:18:52
Speaker
So people don't think about the bad, which again, isn't a bad thing.
00:18:57
Speaker
But if you negate the reality, then it kind of does become toxic because you're ignoring what's actually happening.
00:19:05
Speaker
I hope that makes sense.
00:19:07
Speaker
It does.
00:19:08
Speaker
I love that.
00:19:08
Speaker
Yes.
00:19:09
Speaker
I think, yeah, that's a, again, it's something I've never been able to like articulate, but I think you're absolutely right.
00:19:15
Speaker
So I really appreciate that.
00:19:17
Speaker
There's a cyclical nature to our thoughts and actions where each informs the others.
00:19:23
Speaker
This is why it's so important to like replace or change broken soundtracks.
00:19:28
Speaker
Any thoughts around the cyclical nature of them?
00:19:33
Speaker
I do agree with this.
00:19:35
Speaker
And this may be a little deep.
00:19:37
Speaker
So you could tell me to get back a couple feet.
00:19:41
Speaker
We love it.
00:19:43
Speaker
I do agree with this.
00:19:45
Speaker
And this makes me think about what we talk about in the Black community about generational curses.
Breaking Cycles of Overthinking
00:19:52
Speaker
In the sense that, you know, a parent does something and then somehow, some way you replicate that experience and then you pass it on to your children.
00:20:02
Speaker
until somebody breaks that generational curse.
00:20:04
Speaker
And that takes a lot of self-work, a lot of self-awareness.
00:20:08
Speaker
It takes a lot of seeking help and resources from other people, but that's a lot of heavy lifting to do and you have to be committed to doing it.
00:20:18
Speaker
So I agree with that statement because if you are continuing the same cycle, you're gonna breathe the same results, maybe in different components or different aspects of your life, but you have to be really intentional
00:20:31
Speaker
Now, I don't think it's as simple as changing a soundtrack.
00:20:36
Speaker
I think it's a component of breaking that cycle.
00:20:42
Speaker
Yeah, if only it were that simple, right?
00:20:45
Speaker
Yeah, I think being able to turn things into actions and that piece I think is more important than necessarily the soundtrack piece.
00:20:56
Speaker
I get that the soundtrack and how...
00:20:59
Speaker
positive you are and how you are speaking to yourself impacts your actions.
00:21:04
Speaker
But I think the action part, in my opinion, is a little bit more important in breaking that cyclical nature of negative soundtracks.
Challenging Internal Narratives
00:21:14
Speaker
The author suggests a strategy of exploring your soundtracks with three questions.
00:21:19
Speaker
What's the first question a listener should ask themselves when they identify a negative soundtrack?
00:21:25
Speaker
The first question is, is it true?
00:21:28
Speaker
So asking what is the validity behind that thought and being able to maybe debunk with those other, you know, oh, I am, I'm trying to think of a good example or something that he used.
00:21:45
Speaker
I'm not going to apply for that job because there's better applicants out there.
00:21:49
Speaker
Yes.
00:21:50
Speaker
Good example.
00:21:51
Speaker
So if you, yeah, there are other better applicants out there that potentially might be, there might be somebody out there better than you, but that doesn't mean that you are the worst applicant or that you're bad or that you couldn't do the job.
00:22:06
Speaker
So speaking through some of those truths or what, what makes you think that what's the why behind the, um, is it true?
00:22:14
Speaker
So what is the validity behind that?
00:22:15
Speaker
And why are you starting to think those things about yourself?
00:22:20
Speaker
You know, I will say I will give the author credit that I actually do ask myself, is it true?
00:22:25
Speaker
I don't know if the two of you experienced this, but when I'm having a thought, I have to ask myself, is this my emotions telling me this?
00:22:36
Speaker
Or did this like action actually happen?
00:22:39
Speaker
And so I even do this within my friendships and with my significant other.
00:22:44
Speaker
Like if I'm feeling a certain way, I really need to sit down and marinate on it before I vocalize.
00:22:50
Speaker
The feeling, because I know with my overthinking, it kind of, well, and he talks about it in the book, it really does play tricks on you.
00:22:58
Speaker
And so you really do have to ask yourself, well, is this real?
00:23:02
Speaker
Or am I making this up?
00:23:04
Speaker
I really liked in the book when he talked about when they did a study where they asked people about a significant event.
00:23:12
Speaker
And then later on, I don't remember how many years it was or whatever, but significant years later, having them recite the same thing and that they told the story completely different.
00:23:23
Speaker
But these people firmly believed that.
00:23:26
Speaker
this is the truth.
00:23:27
Speaker
This is exactly how it happened later on.
00:23:30
Speaker
And then they're like, well, here's what you said years ago.
00:23:32
Speaker
And then they're like, no, I must've been lying.
00:23:34
Speaker
No, it couldn't have been me.
00:23:36
Speaker
But so what is the truth behind that versus where, what your mind processes and believes when you have time to overthink those things and those actions and what you believe to be true?
00:23:48
Speaker
Yeah, they showed them their own journals, like in their own handwriting and said, well, that's my handwriting.
00:23:54
Speaker
I don't know why I would lie then because I'm telling the truth now.
00:23:59
Speaker
Exactly.
00:24:00
Speaker
I think there's, I'm interested to hear your all's thoughts on this.
00:24:04
Speaker
There was an important point about how office culture is just a collection of soundtracks playing consistently.
00:24:10
Speaker
And sometimes they're intentional, but more often than not, they're accidental.
00:24:15
Speaker
And so I'm curious about whether the truth behind office culture then, if we start breaking down office culture, it's like, are these unwritten rules actually true?
00:24:24
Speaker
They may be true for some people, but not all.
00:24:30
Speaker
And I feel like that shows up in housing specifically is depending on what type of residence hall you're in.
00:24:39
Speaker
That's how you make assumptions on if you want to be a hall director in that building because of what you heard.
00:24:46
Speaker
That may be true for one person that worked in that building.
00:24:48
Speaker
But
00:24:49
Speaker
When you say if you're assigned to that building and you're like, oh, it's actually this isn't my experience or depending on who your supervisor or supervisors or assistant directors are, you know, it could be, oh, I heard this assistant director is like this or I heard this assistant director is like this.
00:25:07
Speaker
And that may have been one person's experience, but that may not be yours.
00:25:12
Speaker
So I think there's some truth to it.
00:25:16
Speaker
But I do think the more we breed unspoken expectations like that, or if we share information like that about different components of the department, it can breed a culture like that because everyone's under the same assumption, even if they did not experience that situation or that person or that residence hall.
00:25:35
Speaker
So I think with department culture kind of dovetailing on that, it's like, I think there's an important piece if we've got like a generation of overthinkers out there on the front lines as hall directors and coordinators, like, I think there'd be value in trying to help our staff, um,
00:25:52
Speaker
navigate those soundtracks by really processing out loud the quiet things of like office culture, the unwritten rules, the things that matter but we don't really talk about in terms of various things.
00:26:07
Speaker
And I know when I was at UTA, I did a whole presentation on like unwritten rules or like office culture kind of things to kind of break down those things so people weren't walking in.
00:26:16
Speaker
It's like...
00:26:17
Speaker
I didn't know this was a thing.
00:26:19
Speaker
And it's not really a thing, but it is because of the way we all interact.
00:26:24
Speaker
And so what do we do about it?
00:26:25
Speaker
The author suggests to find evidence.
00:26:27
Speaker
Sarah, you kind of mentioned this a little bit.
00:26:30
Speaker
We go out looking for supportive evidence of whether it's true or not.
00:26:33
Speaker
Yeah, looking for those pieces that are speaking to yourself and saying, okay, here are those examples, here are those tangible things that prove, you know, that this isn't, this isn't true, this isn't my reality.
00:26:47
Speaker
And I think also that speaking positivity and kind of doing the opposite of what your brain is telling you to do.
00:26:55
Speaker
And so some of that evidence is like in Jasmine's example of, I didn't want to work at, this is the high conduct hall.
00:27:01
Speaker
Didn't want to work in this hall.
00:27:02
Speaker
Everyone said it was going to be terrible.
00:27:04
Speaker
And then all of a sudden, maybe your evidence comes after the fact where it's like, oh, it really isn't that bad.
00:27:09
Speaker
And so now the evidence is either, well, this person isn't trustworthy or has a bad attitude or didn't have a good experience and that shaped
Impact of Peer Comparison on Progress
00:27:18
Speaker
it.
00:27:18
Speaker
Or are we ever something to think is like, maybe I'm just really good at my job where those problems didn't manifest.
00:27:25
Speaker
that then that evidence is building for, I can take on additional challenges other people say isn't possible.
00:27:31
Speaker
But knowing something isn't true isn't all that helpful in many cases.
00:27:36
Speaker
That's why we need to ask ourselves additional questions.
00:27:39
Speaker
I ever think individual conversations with staff and often say, what I'm about to tell you is super easy for me to say sitting on this side of your experience, but way more difficult for you living in your experiences.
00:27:51
Speaker
So what's the next question we should ask ourselves?
00:27:55
Speaker
Does it help you progress?
00:27:56
Speaker
Does it help you take action?
00:27:58
Speaker
Or does it leave you stuck in this place, in this abyss of thoughts?
00:28:05
Speaker
And I think what's interesting is as an overthinker, you can be stuck because it's like, I'm thinking of all the possibilities and I'm thinking of all the perspectives and I'm stressed and now I'm tired and
00:28:18
Speaker
over processing this information.
00:28:20
Speaker
So I am stuck.
00:28:21
Speaker
And now that I'm stuck, oh, is it going to look bad in my performance because I can't move forward?
00:28:29
Speaker
Yep.
00:28:31
Speaker
The spinning wheel.
00:28:35
Speaker
And I think that that piece too, which we've spoken a little bit about, but is also relevant in this question of, is it helpful?
00:28:43
Speaker
Is, are you just overthinking this conversation or is it, you know, is it productive?
00:28:49
Speaker
And I think we touched on this a little bit with the toxic positivity and
00:28:54
Speaker
Is there possibility to be productive while overthinking?
00:28:59
Speaker
But, you know, why did you say the things that you did and sitting there and thinking it through over and over again?
00:29:04
Speaker
And is there really any benefit to that?
00:29:07
Speaker
Is there anything in what you're telling yourself that is going to aid you in the long run?
00:29:14
Speaker
And then what's the last question the author suggests?
00:29:17
Speaker
The last question is, is it kind?
00:29:19
Speaker
Yeah.
00:29:21
Speaker
And I like he used the analogy or example of saying like, would you say what you're saying to yourself to your friend?
00:29:31
Speaker
Because you probably are not.
00:29:34
Speaker
You probably would not do that.
00:29:36
Speaker
Or at least if you are a good friend, you wouldn't be saying those things to your friend.
00:29:40
Speaker
So why say them to yourself if you wouldn't say it to somebody you love and care about?
00:29:44
Speaker
Hey, best colleague of mine, you are about to have the worst performance evaluation of your life.
00:29:51
Speaker
And you know, it's interesting too, I think not only in housing, but in student affairs in general, we spend so much time uplifting our colleagues, uplifting our students, making sure that they have support, making sure that they feel valued.
00:30:05
Speaker
But when it comes to us, we have a hard time being kind to ourselves.
00:30:10
Speaker
And it can be discouraging sometimes because it's like, I know I'm kicking butt, I'm doing a good job, but I just can't get past this one hurdle.
00:30:20
Speaker
And is this really reflecting badly on my job performance?
00:30:24
Speaker
Do my students think all these terrible things about me?
00:30:26
Speaker
When, if you actually want to go ask your students or the students that you have trusted relationships with, they're going to say, oh, Sarah, you're awesome.
00:30:34
Speaker
JC, you're kicking butt.
00:30:36
Speaker
I would not want to live in any other residence hall, but this one, or I wouldn't want to be a part of any other committee without you on it,
Resilience and Positivity
00:30:44
Speaker
you know?
00:30:44
Speaker
And so it's very interesting how hard we are on ourselves versus,
00:30:48
Speaker
how people look at us from the outside.
00:30:52
Speaker
Or those one-off examples of going back to, again, the problem hall that, you know, maybe it was still problematic.
00:30:57
Speaker
Well, like there was a lot of conduct and the student, it was like, I'm moving out because I didn't have a good experience, but it wasn't because of you.
00:31:06
Speaker
And my experience would have been worse had you not been here where it's may not have been the Olympic gold medal, but it was, you still provided something for them that made it better.
00:31:17
Speaker
So it's not,
00:31:18
Speaker
a total failure on, you know, this person's part.
00:31:22
Speaker
I think, you know, the being kind part is I also had to kind of check myself and looking at like, it wasn't necessarily being kind as in like touchy feeling and just constant affirmation to myself, but it's more about like just not being judgmental to myself.
00:31:39
Speaker
And I think, Jasmine, that goes a little bit about what you were kind of going back to.
00:31:44
Speaker
Being kind to ourselves and others allows us to engage in a little risk-taking behavior where if there's that psychological safety that we're willing to extend ourselves, we're going to try a little more, or we're going to put ourselves in uncomfortable situations.
00:31:59
Speaker
And if we don't have that psychological safety, we'll kind of regress or recluse in that.
00:32:05
Speaker
And I think to that point, too, there's a quote that did actually resonate with me in the book that I think goes along with what you're saying.
00:32:13
Speaker
The author says, we assume we have to be tougher than that and have the resilience of a Navy SEAL.
00:32:19
Speaker
But what is resilience other than allowing yourself to begin again when things don't go the way you expected the first time?
00:32:25
Speaker
So when you have that psychological safety or that emotional safety, then you are going to be able to try again.
00:32:32
Speaker
You're going to be able to be resilient and take the next steps to move forward and move beyond your overthinking.
00:32:38
Speaker
And so you're going to ask yourself these three questions.
00:32:40
Speaker
Is it true?
00:32:42
Speaker
Nope, it's not true.
00:32:44
Speaker
You know, is it helping me take action?
00:32:46
Speaker
So I'm going to do X action.
00:32:48
Speaker
And am I being kind to myself?
00:32:49
Speaker
No.
00:32:50
Speaker
So let me go talk to a student that I really love to help boost up my ego so I can, you know, be resilient and try again or take a risk.
00:32:59
Speaker
I feel like being kind should just be the first question we ask ourselves.
00:33:02
Speaker
I feel like that's the one that catches all the others that might slip through the cracks.
00:33:07
Speaker
Yeah, we could save ourselves a lot of time if we just asked that question.
00:33:11
Speaker
Yeah.
00:33:12
Speaker
Would I tell this to my best friend?
00:33:14
Speaker
There was some example of the book.
00:33:15
Speaker
It's like, would you tell your tell your best friend that they're the worst mother in the world?
00:33:20
Speaker
No.
00:33:20
Speaker
So why are you telling yourself that or the worst father or whatever?
00:33:25
Speaker
So true.
00:33:27
Speaker
Like that was the moment where it really hit me.
00:33:29
Speaker
It's like, yes, we do tell ourselves pretty terrible things.
00:33:32
Speaker
Yeah.
00:33:33
Speaker
And it's so hard to break that cycle of doing it.
00:33:37
Speaker
And it's so human nature.
00:33:39
Speaker
And I think, especially in housing, and I feel like we're very, you know, everybody is relational.
00:33:47
Speaker
We care about people.
00:33:48
Speaker
That's why we're in this field.
00:33:50
Speaker
We care about what people think.
00:33:51
Speaker
And so we take so personally a lot of our actions and how we're impacting others.
00:33:56
Speaker
And,
00:33:57
Speaker
and what those relationships and things look like.
00:33:59
Speaker
So when you come into those moments of messing up, we think this is impacting more than just me.
00:34:05
Speaker
So I feel like we're a lot harder on ourselves too, of saying unkind things, because it's not just ourselves, but we care so much about the impact that we have on others.
00:34:13
Speaker
And I think a lot of times that feeds deeper into that kindness or lack thereof.
00:34:19
Speaker
Well, I think the I care so much can be problematic in some ways because then that repeats itself where it's like, well, I care so much that I can't take time off because my students need me and I need to pour into them.
00:34:34
Speaker
And so then we're repeating cycles of, well, I haven't had a day off in so long.
00:34:41
Speaker
My boss has been telling me to take days off, but I just keep saying I can't.
00:34:44
Speaker
And so then that keeps repeating the cycle.
00:34:48
Speaker
So I think, you know, I can't take time off is another broken soundtrack that I hear or I've heard plenty throughout my career.
Taking Time Off Without Guilt
00:34:56
Speaker
Yes, definitely.
00:34:57
Speaker
And the unkind thing I would say back is like, well, if you can't take time off and your building can't survive without you, then you probably are not doing it right.
00:35:06
Speaker
Like trust in your staff and your supervision to like, you're a good supervisor.
00:35:11
Speaker
You're people like, you know, you've set your boss up for success because they know the issues that are going on that they can cover for you while you're gone.
00:35:17
Speaker
Like think about it positively of like you've done a good job.
00:35:21
Speaker
I think to that point, too, I forgot what section of the book the author talks about this, but he talks about perfectionism and how that plays a role into the overthinking.
00:35:30
Speaker
And it makes me think about how literally everything y'all just said shows up in housing and how that's related to perfectionism.
00:35:38
Speaker
And when you are in a healthy mind state,
00:35:42
Speaker
You know, you want your staff to be able to function without you, whether it's a grad student, whether it's an undergrad student.
00:35:48
Speaker
You want to be able to communicate what's happening to your building, with your building, to your supervisor.
00:35:54
Speaker
So that way, when you go to the Bahamas, you know, things are going to function.
00:35:57
Speaker
And when you get back, you'll be able to take care of it.
00:36:00
Speaker
But your team got it.
00:36:02
Speaker
But I think with being in housing residence life, you feel like you're under a microscope.
00:36:06
Speaker
And because you're under a microscope, you need to be perfect.
00:36:09
Speaker
And so when you're perfect, that means everything's functioning and everybody's OK and everybody's doing great.
00:36:15
Speaker
But you shouldn't feel compelled to strive for perfectionism.
00:36:19
Speaker
We want you to be competent professionals.
00:36:21
Speaker
We want you to be confident professionals.
00:36:24
Speaker
But competent and confident professionals also make you take care of yourself.
00:36:28
Speaker
Yeah, number one rule, take care of yourself first.
00:36:31
Speaker
A lot of the things we've kind of talked about, it may seem like so easy to talk about.
00:36:36
Speaker
Like, oh, just turn it off, turn it off.
00:36:38
Speaker
Like, oh, we'll just think different things.
00:36:40
Speaker
But the author talks about it's not actually a switch, but it's more of like a dial.
00:36:45
Speaker
So any thoughts on how we turn down the dial or shifting away from the mindset of it's like binary, either it's on or it's off?
00:36:55
Speaker
I liked it.
00:36:56
Speaker
this analogy.
00:36:57
Speaker
And I feel like it's more realistic in that sense, because yeah, I think one day you're not going to be like, okay, I know I overthink.
00:37:07
Speaker
So starting tomorrow, I will never overthink again.
00:37:09
Speaker
Like the, the reality behind that is it just, it's,
00:37:13
Speaker
doesn't happen.
00:37:14
Speaker
So I think that analogy of turning down the dial and what can we do to turn down that background noise and to change that negativity into positivity.
00:37:26
Speaker
And he gave a lot of practical strategies of things for that, such as going for a run, creating a list, talking to a friend.
00:37:36
Speaker
I don't know that all of those are maybe the most productive or maybe for some people that work, some people it's
00:37:43
Speaker
But I think that the concept behind it of getting yourself outside of your own head, doing something to prevent yourself from overthinking and get your mind occupied on something else.
00:37:57
Speaker
So I think that...
00:37:59
Speaker
Is it maybe a good tip to turning down the dial?
00:38:02
Speaker
I don't know that this will work for every single person or what your guys' thoughts were on that, but I think it's accurate.
Managing Overthinking: Dial vs. Switch
00:38:10
Speaker
You're not going to one day just turn off a switch and stop overthinking completely.
00:38:14
Speaker
That's just not realistic.
00:38:16
Speaker
You know, I think for some people, the switch analogy works for them in a sense that they are able to just cut it off and be done with it and then move on.
00:38:27
Speaker
I know a few people that can do that, and I wish I could do that because I wouldn't have to worry about it.
00:38:34
Speaker
But myself being an overthinker, I think a dial is more appropriate because I think for me, it shows that you have an awareness of when times are going to be stressful for you.
00:38:45
Speaker
So you're going to work a little bit harder to turn the dial down.
00:38:48
Speaker
So you are working through those thoughts that you're having in the back of your mind.
00:38:53
Speaker
And then when you work through those thoughts, then you may turn the dial up because you have tackled whatever you're tackling through.
00:39:00
Speaker
And so I think the good thing about a dial is that it allows you to adjust as time progress or as times change.
00:39:08
Speaker
Whereas with a dial, it just works for folks who are able to just shut it off.
00:39:12
Speaker
And then, you know, something else happens, they can flip it on and then shut it back off.
00:39:16
Speaker
And so I think there are two distinct techniques, but I think
00:39:20
Speaker
a dial is more appropriate for overthinkers.
00:39:23
Speaker
Whereas if you're not an overthinker, a switch may be more applicable.
00:39:27
Speaker
Well, and I think the switch versus dial analogy is one of those areas that I thought of in terms of
00:39:34
Speaker
It's easier to have a switch when you're in a position of power where you can just turn it off.
00:39:40
Speaker
Like any follow-up conversation I have with any staff member I've ever had, like I can easily say, I'm moving on.
00:39:48
Speaker
We're moving on.
00:39:49
Speaker
We've talked about this.
00:39:50
Speaker
Don't worry about it.
00:39:52
Speaker
And where, okay, I've legitimately moved on.
00:39:55
Speaker
And yet the person who doesn't have the power or the subordinate position is
00:40:00
Speaker
okay, I just had this follow-up conversation with my boss.
00:40:03
Speaker
And we all know that like follow-up conversation is just coded language for I'm in trouble or I screwed up.
00:40:09
Speaker
And so maybe a dial is more appropriate there.
00:40:12
Speaker
Whereas like when my boss follows up with me about something, it was like, okay, I've moved on now.
00:40:16
Speaker
It's like,
00:40:18
Speaker
okay, I'm glad to hear that.
00:40:20
Speaker
And that kind of helps me adjust, but it's still not a switch in that moment.
00:40:25
Speaker
So I think that there's, you know, positions of power have a little bit more latitude to be able to, or the luxury maybe, or the privilege to, all right, the switch is turned off.
00:40:38
Speaker
Yeah.
00:40:38
Speaker
And I think too, it probably depends on how you view that switch versus dial.
00:40:43
Speaker
Like in general, you know,
00:40:46
Speaker
I don't know that, again, it depends on the person, but like, oh, just overthinking in general.
00:40:50
Speaker
Like, no, I will never overthink again.
00:40:52
Speaker
That switch is off versus on.
00:40:54
Speaker
But I think that kind of what you're saying, JC, and that piece of certain things, yeah, it's like, oh, I say this thing.
00:41:01
Speaker
I'm...
00:41:01
Speaker
I don't have to worry about it anymore.
00:41:03
Speaker
It's somebody else's problem or thing that they're dealing with.
00:41:06
Speaker
And I talked them through it.
00:41:07
Speaker
Now I'm on to my problems.
00:41:09
Speaker
And those are the things that maybe I have to work more on a dial situation because it's overwhelming my thoughts and my day to day and what I actively have to take care of.
00:41:17
Speaker
Yeah, JC, I'm glad you brought that analogy up, actually, because I think that's very true.
00:41:23
Speaker
And it's present not only in housing and residence life, but it's just present in life.
00:41:30
Speaker
Like a lot of people are able to afford to just turn off certain things that are happening in the news because it doesn't affect you until it affects you.
00:41:39
Speaker
Whereas people that are living through this experience are living adjacent to the experience.
00:41:44
Speaker
They can't just flick it when they feel like it.
00:41:47
Speaker
They have to deal with it.
00:41:48
Speaker
And I think that's a critique that many marginalized communities have with communities of privilege in general.
00:41:56
Speaker
Like it doesn't matter to you because you don't have to face it every day.
00:41:59
Speaker
But we have to face it every day.
00:42:01
Speaker
You know, this is my reality.
00:42:02
Speaker
I can't just walk away from it and be done with it.
00:42:06
Speaker
And I also think this shows up in housing.
00:42:09
Speaker
If you are a resident advisor or residence hall director at an entry level position or paraprofessional position, as we say in housing residence life, you are the front line of the department.
00:42:21
Speaker
And so because you are the front line of the department, you are seeing these things happen in real time and you are dealing with these issues three, four, five hours at a time.
00:42:30
Speaker
So you can't just switch it off because, you know, you can walk to your room, you can walk to your apartment and you have to tackle said issue, whereas your superiors may not have to see it as up close as you do on a day-to-day basis.
00:42:44
Speaker
Yeah, your supervisor gets to go to their house or apartment off campus and doesn't have to
00:42:50
Speaker
concern themselves with the things that then is right outside of your door, your apartment when you live on campus.
00:42:56
Speaker
Well, and even the privilege of being able to, quote, experience the incident by reading about it versus like witnessing it firsthand is a totally different emotional experience and a total different like line of thinking that everything that comes after that.
00:43:15
Speaker
The author also talks about like borrowing soundtracks
Influence of Upbringing on Confidence
00:43:18
Speaker
from others.
00:43:18
Speaker
He talks about quotes he's picked up that he's farmed from elsewhere.
00:43:24
Speaker
Any soundtracks you all have collected from other people, supervisors, colleagues, celebrities?
00:43:31
Speaker
So I struggle to figure out what soundtracks I could remember or I've written down.
00:43:41
Speaker
But what I have thought about is I don't know what your experience was like growing up or what your undergrad experience was like, but I was born and raised in Detroit, Michigan, which is a predominantly black community, really a predominantly people of color community.
00:43:59
Speaker
And so it wasn't until I left college where I wasn't in a predominant black community.
00:44:04
Speaker
And so growing up, I remember my teachers, they used to always give us some type of affirmations, say like, you're a king, you're a queen, you come from royalty, you're making your ancestors proud, really trying to infuse those encouraging words to us.
00:44:20
Speaker
Because after we left our community, you know, we weren't going to be in those safe spaces.
00:44:26
Speaker
And so
00:44:27
Speaker
Reflecting back, I think those were foundational soundtracks that I received from my teachers growing up because once I entered into predominantly white spaces and started really interacting with different stereotypes or bias that I didn't experience before, I felt equipped in my identity and I felt confident.
00:44:48
Speaker
And I didn't have to go through certain stages of, I guess, questioning of my identity because I did have teachers that said all these majestic things to me growing up.
00:45:01
Speaker
Yeah.
00:45:02
Speaker
Like that's the soundtrack right there.
00:45:04
Speaker
Like you are a queen.
00:45:05
Speaker
Like every morning you wake up, it's like, I am a queen.
00:45:07
Speaker
Like that's the, that's what I would think that that, the way you describe that, it's like, that's borrowed.
00:45:12
Speaker
Like imagine telling all of your paraprofessional staff, like you are a king, you are a queen, you are royalty.
00:45:18
Speaker
I mean, I'm glad you feel like you're royalty, JC.
00:45:20
Speaker
You know, you're already infused in a soundtrack into your life.
00:45:25
Speaker
Only because of you.
00:45:26
Speaker
Before this, I was like, I'm not royalty.
00:45:28
Speaker
No, I'm just another gear in the clog.
00:45:31
Speaker
But you're right.
00:45:32
Speaker
I am a king.
00:45:33
Speaker
I am royalty.
00:45:34
Speaker
That's what JC is going to say as he's laying his head down on his pillow tonight.
00:45:39
Speaker
Every night before I go to bed.
00:45:41
Speaker
Quote Jasmine Jennings.
00:45:43
Speaker
But it's like you don't realize.
00:45:45
Speaker
I don't know if you feel like this about soundtracks you've heard, but just reflecting back.
00:45:49
Speaker
You know, I really didn't realize the effect that it had on me until I became a professional.
00:45:54
Speaker
And I'm actually glad I had teachers that said all these wonderful things to me because I definitely feel a lot more confident in my work.
00:46:03
Speaker
But also to just a short, short, short little story.
00:46:06
Speaker
When I was a resident advisor, my supervisor did an activity where we all gave feedback to each other.
00:46:14
Speaker
And one of the feedback that they gave me, they said I was aggressive.
00:46:18
Speaker
And I think about that.
00:46:21
Speaker
I think about that instance very often because I'm like, I'm not naturally aggressive.
00:46:26
Speaker
I'm actually pretty chill.
00:46:28
Speaker
But even though I think about it, I don't marinate on it.
00:46:33
Speaker
And I'm thankful that I've had people to tell me otherwise, because I would just imagine that if I continue carrying that with me, what effect it would have on me interacting with different staffs that I've worked with over time.
00:46:47
Speaker
What do you think it was about becoming a professional then that made that come to light?
00:46:52
Speaker
You know, that's an excellent question.
00:46:55
Speaker
I would say that I think having conversations with my students of color and they talk about their worthiness.
00:47:04
Speaker
I think also talking to students that were first generation students and me walking them through support, walking them through confidence, walking them through affirmation.
00:47:17
Speaker
made me reflect back on my childhood and my upbringing in school.
00:47:23
Speaker
I'm thankful that I did have teachers and educators that did look like me.
00:47:28
Speaker
And so I've interacted with a lot of students that didn't have that experience.
00:47:32
Speaker
And so I'm really understanding why representation is important because it helps promote a positive message like you can do this.
00:47:40
Speaker
You can be here.
00:47:41
Speaker
You can get a master's degree.
00:47:43
Speaker
You are capable.
00:47:44
Speaker
And so I'm glad that I had those folks in my life to tell me that and I could share that information because I've definitely, I actually, now that I think about it, I've really had to share those thoughts with students as they are questioning themselves and their identity in the space of higher education.
00:48:02
Speaker
And I hope that answered your question.
00:48:04
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely.
00:48:05
Speaker
I appreciate you sharing.
00:48:07
Speaker
Sarah, any you borrowed from others?
00:48:11
Speaker
I also struggled a little bit.
00:48:12
Speaker
I think it's hard to pull those things, but the one thing that I wrote down when I was thinking through what those soundtracks are is I had a pastor once from my church that I went to growing up that had talked a lot about
00:48:28
Speaker
your small actions having value and that everything is a step on a ladder in a direction.
00:48:37
Speaker
And I think that's something that ladder analogy that really stuck with me and something that I've carried also into my interactions with others.
00:48:45
Speaker
So those small things that I do can make an impact.
00:48:48
Speaker
And so saying that to myself, or even if I don't see what there is, maybe I don't get to see the...
00:48:56
Speaker
immediate benefits, but there can be benefits and there can be a positive impact.
00:49:00
Speaker
So when you think about your interaction with students and with their lives, like maybe you have a, you know, a student that's dealing with mental health issues or something like that, and you have one conversation and maybe they didn't walk away from that saying like, I'm going to go seek help, but I know that I had a positive interaction and that maybe that helped to normalize going to see a counselor a little bit more.
00:49:22
Speaker
And maybe some of those small things will help them on the
00:49:25
Speaker
grander scale, even though I might not see that impact.
00:49:27
Speaker
So I think that that's one soundtrack and thing that has been really embedded in me and that I have used in my personal life, but I've also seen in our field of higher education.
00:49:38
Speaker
I remember one conversation I had with the first instructor of my doc program.
00:49:45
Speaker
We met up and we're just chatting and he made an offhand comment that my dissertation was actually going to be the worst thing I ever wrote.
00:49:54
Speaker
which I've laughed at the time because he was a pretty straight shooter in those regards.
00:49:59
Speaker
But then he followed up and it's like, well, if you're going to keep getting better at this, this is your first academic writing.
00:50:06
Speaker
Hopefully everything after this point is going to be better and better.
00:50:09
Speaker
And that's one that I...
00:50:10
Speaker
I've applied that the first thing, the first time you're ever, your first committee chair meeting is probably going to be your worst one because you've never run it before.
00:50:19
Speaker
Or your first day on your, as a, in your new role is probably going to be, I don't think it practically applies across the board, but it's a, it's something I've reframed a lot of things of like the first episode I recorded this podcast was the worst quality one of all of them because it gets better after that point.
00:50:40
Speaker
My significant other is agreeing with everything that you just said.
00:50:43
Speaker
He said, preach.
00:50:48
Speaker
But it was also like a little shocking when he said that at first, because it was like, you're talking about something I'm spending years writing and you're telling me it's going to be the worst.
00:50:57
Speaker
And it wasn't until I unpacked it a little bit in my head over time.
00:51:00
Speaker
It was like, no, he's absolutely, or at least I hope he's right is what it
Growth Through Work and Self-Belief
00:51:04
Speaker
really should be.
00:51:04
Speaker
Maybe he's not.
00:51:05
Speaker
Maybe it was the best thing I ever write.
00:51:06
Speaker
But
00:51:08
Speaker
I hope that he's right in it being the worst.
00:51:11
Speaker
Got to unpack it a little bit more.
00:51:13
Speaker
Yes.
00:51:14
Speaker
What's the thought behind the thought?
00:51:15
Speaker
I think it's what the author says a number of times.
00:51:19
Speaker
And what the author said also that I love is, well, do you want feedback or do you want compliments?
00:51:24
Speaker
Like in a supervisory relationship of like, you know, tell me how I'm doing.
00:51:29
Speaker
Okay.
00:51:29
Speaker
Well, do you want feedback or do you want compliments?
00:51:31
Speaker
Yeah.
00:51:32
Speaker
Yeah, that was a real tough love moment there in the book, but very, very accurate.
00:51:39
Speaker
Yeah.
00:51:39
Speaker
And I think if you just like even that moment of reframing that it kind of sets the tone for the rest of the conversation, if like you've elected this way and again, I'm not going to be a jerk about it, but here's the feedback.
00:51:52
Speaker
We've talked a little bit about the emotional toll and overcommitment and mental health of housing staff throughout.
00:51:58
Speaker
And one I think I've tried to lend to people, a soundtrack I've tried to lend to people I work with is...
00:52:05
Speaker
It's just a job.
00:52:07
Speaker
And I picked that up from an article years ago.
00:52:11
Speaker
And I think it was from like a ER surgeon or a cardiovascular surgeon who wrote this thing.
00:52:17
Speaker
I'll have to see if I can find the article these days.
00:52:19
Speaker
But it's like even this person was saying it's just a job.
00:52:24
Speaker
And so I try and lend that out as much as I can to reaffirm that really at the end of the day, it's just a job.
00:52:30
Speaker
I mean, you're right because –
00:52:33
Speaker
We want you to do great work.
00:52:34
Speaker
We want you to impact students.
00:52:36
Speaker
But there is so much more to you than this job.
00:52:40
Speaker
And if this job is causing you to overthink a lot, or if it's the root of your overthinking and it's bleeding into other things in your life, that's not going to work out well for you emotionally or mentally.
00:52:53
Speaker
And so you're right.
00:52:54
Speaker
That is just a job.
00:52:55
Speaker
And I think that's a soundtrack I'm going to share with others, too.
00:53:03
Speaker
And that's what Jasmine's going to say when she lays her head on her pillow tonight.
00:53:06
Speaker
Just the job.
00:53:09
Speaker
I'm just glad that we've been able to share, mutually share and benefit each other.
00:53:14
Speaker
Sharing is caring.
00:53:15
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:53:17
Speaker
This is a little off topic, but another implementation for overthinking is like the author talks about like a pocket jury about, you know, we've got these people saying things in our pocket if typically it's like negative stuff in our heads.
00:53:31
Speaker
But I picked this up from a, I think it was an FBI like negotiator, expert negotiator.
00:53:38
Speaker
And he
00:53:40
Speaker
From that, I added to the quote pocket jury of add someone you admire into it, whether you're negotiating a job salary or a car price or whatever the overthinking moment is, is like, would Beyonce take the first offer?
00:54:00
Speaker
Whatever the case may be.
00:54:01
Speaker
And I think that's one, like put a positive voice in your head about what would Taylor Swift do or whatever it might be.
00:54:09
Speaker
Yeah, taking people that you view positively and try to input that into your own can change how we naturally view things so negatively for ourselves.
00:54:21
Speaker
That change of mindset is really big.
00:54:25
Speaker
I think to that point, with the change of mindset, I think what stuck out to me about a pocket jury was
00:54:31
Speaker
And this, I want to read specifically this definition that was in the book.
00:54:36
Speaker
It's whenever you dare to be more than you currently are.
00:54:40
Speaker
And I think that's a very impactful statement to say because your pocket jury does typically come out when you are trying to be better, do better, think better, grow more, you know, go outside of your comfort zone, take a risk, you know, insert all the things.
00:54:58
Speaker
And
00:54:59
Speaker
I like the word dare specifically because it's like you are betting on yourself.
00:55:04
Speaker
You are betting on your goals.
00:55:07
Speaker
You are betting on your work ethic.
00:55:09
Speaker
You are betting on your competency.
00:55:12
Speaker
And when you think about the pocket jury, that's when all the things from childhood, from high school, from undergrad,
00:55:21
Speaker
really like creep up on you and say all these things.
00:55:24
Speaker
And so sometimes you do need to ask, would Beyonce do this?
00:55:28
Speaker
Beyonce is great.
00:55:30
Speaker
I want to be great like her.
00:55:31
Speaker
What do I need to do to get to her level?
00:55:34
Speaker
And so it's almost like a, like Beyonce is your weapon against all the naysayers that you have in your mind.
00:55:42
Speaker
I know that was like very fun using Beyonce as your weapon, but I hope, you know, I hope that makes sense, you know, to go into battle against your pocket jury.
00:55:53
Speaker
Well, in the pocket juries of people who like,
00:55:56
Speaker
are the ones that are constantly telling us we're imposters in those situations where we're stretching
Imposter Syndrome and Self-Worth
00:56:00
Speaker
ourselves.
00:56:00
Speaker
Like the imposter syndrome is a legitimate thing.
00:56:03
Speaker
And the thought behind that thought is like, I'm just an imposter is like imposter syndrome typically applies to like high performers or people who are like challenging themselves and growing.
00:56:15
Speaker
And that's something you should be proud of.
00:56:17
Speaker
So anytime someone talks to me, it's like, I just feel like an imposter, like, you know,
00:56:22
Speaker
soon to grad graduate students soon to graduate commonly will say this like i'm going to start a new job i'm going to be a total imposter it's like but you're not like you're not really like that's a good thing if you feel that way because you're being challenged to grow yeah i feel like it's so easy to view growth in a negative way because it's uncomfortable
00:56:43
Speaker
not because it's a bad thing.
00:56:47
Speaker
Growth is a good thing, but when we step outside of our comfort zone, a lot of time we're so uncomfortable that we don't want to do it or then we start to view it as, oh, this isn't who I am.
00:56:57
Speaker
This is not my nature.
00:56:59
Speaker
I don't know what I'm doing.
00:57:00
Speaker
And you start to really tear yourself down instead of being confident in those decisions and how you want to grow and better yourself.
00:57:09
Speaker
And to your point, too, Sarah, like you talk yourself down before you even experience the experience.
00:57:16
Speaker
And so you're you're projecting all these things into the experience.
00:57:19
Speaker
And it may not even be that way.
00:57:21
Speaker
You may think, oh, I really can do this.
00:57:23
Speaker
And this also makes me think about a quote that Queen Michelle Obama said.
00:57:29
Speaker
It was either in her book or in one of her talks.
00:57:32
Speaker
But she, you know, spoke about how, you know, she was in these rooms with all of these generals and these politicians and all of these important people in the country.
00:57:42
Speaker
But when she sat in on these conversations, they she felt like, you know, they she was just as smart as them.
00:57:48
Speaker
Like she's just as competent as them and maybe even smarter and more competent.
00:57:53
Speaker
And so I'm glad to hear that our forever first lady, you know, shared that experience because, you know, you think all these things like they've been through 20 years of the industry in the industry or they've, you know, they've gone through all these things.
00:58:09
Speaker
And so they are competent and equipped to do all this.
00:58:12
Speaker
But once you actually get there, you see that you belong there.
00:58:15
Speaker
Like this is your place.
00:58:17
Speaker
Just believe in yourself.
00:58:19
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:58:19
Speaker
Michelle Obama, 2024.
00:58:24
Speaker
And for any of our listeners out there who think that this is just stuff that is anecdotal, they actually did a whole lot of research and interviewed or asked over 10,000 people all sorts of questions and some of the strategies they employed.
00:58:42
Speaker
And when they asked 10,000 people how overthinking made them feel, 73% of people said it made them feel inadequate.
00:58:50
Speaker
And 52% of them said it made them feel drained.
00:58:53
Speaker
So if those feelings are something you experience when you feel like you're overthinking, know that you're not alone.
Data on Overthinking and Inadequacy
00:59:00
Speaker
And I put that in there just from this is just there is research supporting everything we're talking about.
00:59:08
Speaker
Yes, I always appreciate the data to back up.
00:59:13
Speaker
And we've mentioned what a fascinating concept of overthinking and how you can relate and you can sit through and be aware, oh, I'm overthinking this now.
00:59:23
Speaker
I've read the book.
00:59:24
Speaker
I'm very...
00:59:25
Speaker
sensitive to this, but when he lists out this data and some of these things, it does make you feel like you're not the only one, because I think that's part of the overthinking is like, it's just me.
00:59:36
Speaker
I'm the only one feeling this.
00:59:37
Speaker
I'm the only one that's ever overthought anything in my whole life when, you know, that's clearly not the case.
00:59:43
Speaker
Or maybe not even the, I'm the only one overthinking, but I'm the only one who gets exhausted by overthinking, or I'm the only one that spins this negatively down the rabbit hole.
00:59:55
Speaker
Yes, very true.
00:59:56
Speaker
And, you know, I feel like this goes along with the feelings of shame or guilt for feeling the way that you feel from overthinking.
01:00:04
Speaker
And when you're feeling shameful or when you're having feelings of guilt, then you isolate yourself and really get you thinking, oh, am I the only one or I am the only one experiencing this?
01:00:17
Speaker
When we as a community, a society really needs to work through feelings of shame and like really speak up more about those more uncomfortable feelings so that people don't feel like they are in isolation when they're experiencing overthinking.
01:00:32
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely.
01:00:33
Speaker
I feel like it's systemically built into society that even if we acknowledge that everybody feels shame, that the people who have power are like, you're a powerful person if you don't display shame or you don't let it consume you.
01:00:47
Speaker
Like there's a negative...
01:00:49
Speaker
association with that.
01:00:50
Speaker
Like, okay, well, maybe we all do experience shame from time to time, but the people, but if you don't process shame or don't let it show, then you're in a, you have more power or position or whatever the case may be.
01:01:05
Speaker
And you know, unfortunately, too, I think with that mindset, as you get older, it'll wear you down, not even just mentally and emotionally, but also physically.
01:01:15
Speaker
I feel like I know quite a few people that let things build up to where they're like physically sick and can't, you know, can't continue working or can't work as hard as they used to.
01:01:26
Speaker
And so all of that manifests in many different ways.
01:01:29
Speaker
And so I definitely think we need to work on
01:01:32
Speaker
Speaking up more.
01:01:33
Speaker
And I think that's what this new generation of students, they are really advocates for.
01:01:37
Speaker
Like, they have no shame in shame.
01:01:39
Speaker
Like, this is how I feel.
01:01:41
Speaker
I need help.
01:01:41
Speaker
I need you.
01:01:43
Speaker
And so I think that's been a great benefit to our current generation of students is that they are challenging us to speak up and speak out and address those more uncomfortable feelings when we're experiencing them.
01:01:55
Speaker
Absolutely.
01:01:55
Speaker
Absolutely.
Systemic Limitations for Black Women
01:01:57
Speaker
Jasmine, did you want to talk a little bit more about the book not feeling like it applied necessarily to you as a black woman?
01:02:05
Speaker
So, yeah, I would say it didn't apply to me in two ways.
01:02:09
Speaker
The first way, I think this is more general that I think could be applicable to anyone.
01:02:14
Speaker
So, you know, I think I may define overthinking differently.
01:02:19
Speaker
So I definitely experienced the overthinking that he talks about, but I actually consider my type of overthinking
01:02:27
Speaker
as constantly thinking about a task or responsibility that I need to take care of.
01:02:32
Speaker
And because I'm constantly thinking and I'm constantly on, that wears me down mentally and physically.
01:02:39
Speaker
And so in a sense, going back to what I was saying about using a dial versus a switch, I'm sorry, not a dial versus a switch, but productive overthinking.
01:02:51
Speaker
When I think about productive overthinking, because for me, I'm always trying to be a few steps ahead of all the folks because I'm providing leadership for different initiatives and programs.
01:03:02
Speaker
Like I'm constantly thinking, trying to plan ahead so that way the people behind me are prepared to do their job or are prepared to do whatever I need them to do for the department.
01:03:13
Speaker
So that's definitely one way I didn't think the book addressed my type of overthinking.
01:03:17
Speaker
So I hope that makes sense.
01:03:19
Speaker
And then the second thing is... Well, can I, before you get on to the next one, can I have a follow-up statement?
01:03:25
Speaker
I love what you just said about like in leadership, I need to know, or I need to show that I have strength or that I'm in charge or that I know what's going on.
01:03:35
Speaker
And this is one I think about all the time.
01:03:39
Speaker
And it isn't until like within the last couple of years, I finally...
01:03:42
Speaker
have kind of laid it out in my head.
01:03:44
Speaker
It's like, I'm, I know my weaknesses as a professional and like knowing all the salient details is not one of them.
01:03:54
Speaker
And I know people who are like, I got to know everything.
01:03:56
Speaker
And it's finally, I realized I'm never going to be that person.
01:03:59
Speaker
And all, but I can be the person who,
01:04:03
Speaker
And I just imagine myself saying this in an interview of like, no, I'm not going to know everything that's going on in my department.
01:04:09
Speaker
Like if I was ever to apply for a director job and telling the VP or whoever my boss would be, I'm not going to be the person who knows everything that's going on in my department.
01:04:16
Speaker
But what I am going to be is the person who can get access to the information based on the relationships and the systems in place that...
01:04:23
Speaker
If you ask me something to follow up, I'm not going to know the answer, but I will be able to get it to you within an hour because of the way my department's going to operate.
01:04:31
Speaker
And that's one that I would constantly overthink.
01:04:33
Speaker
It's like, I don't know the answer to that question.
01:04:35
Speaker
My boss just asked me this.
01:04:36
Speaker
I don't know.
01:04:37
Speaker
But guess what?
01:04:38
Speaker
I always had a quick follow up because my staff knew what was going on.
01:04:42
Speaker
And see, I am working on getting there, but I know I'm not there yet.
01:04:49
Speaker
Oh, and I don't know that I'm there yet either.
01:04:51
Speaker
It's like first started, the first is identifying the issue.
01:04:54
Speaker
I'm like,
01:04:56
Speaker
And again, I don't know how I'd ever explain that to like a, well, now that it's in public record, like anyone else is like, well, that's not what you said on the podcast.
01:05:03
Speaker
You said you wouldn't know anything that's going on in your department.
01:05:05
Speaker
But I think there's some level of, if you can get comfortable with that, it's like, you know, there's actually a value to doing it that way.
01:05:12
Speaker
And then also, you know, if I can spin it even more, it's like staff doesn't feel like you're constantly micromanaging with like weekly reports or whatever to get all these details.
01:05:21
Speaker
Yeah.
01:05:22
Speaker
Well, see, and that's what's so hard.
01:05:25
Speaker
I don't know if y'all have experienced this, but I think for me, it's always like, I always get what if questions and questions about really small things.
01:05:35
Speaker
And I'm like, in my mind, I'm like, I didn't think about that.
01:05:39
Speaker
But then on the outside, I'm like, okay, we're going to figure it out.
01:05:42
Speaker
Or here's a quick answer, thinking on my toes.
01:05:45
Speaker
And for me, I know I can answer the question.
01:05:49
Speaker
I know I can get the resource.
01:05:51
Speaker
But it's stressful.
01:05:53
Speaker
Because again, as the leader, it's like, it's one more thing to think about.
01:05:58
Speaker
One more thing to add on my to do list.
01:06:00
Speaker
I wish I could just say, you know, let me come back to that.
01:06:03
Speaker
But I know personally, I'm just not there yet.
01:06:06
Speaker
And I'm working through it.
01:06:08
Speaker
Well, at every time that I get asked a question, it's like, we'll come back to that.
01:06:13
Speaker
And then they see me walk over to my boss's office, it almost like
01:06:17
Speaker
they gained some of my authority or my command of my position.
01:06:21
Speaker
Like this guy doesn't, why are we even talking and having this conversation?
01:06:23
Speaker
Why don't we go talk to his boss about it?
01:06:25
Speaker
Like, you know, there's those things.
01:06:27
Speaker
And I also, there was, you know, probably another soundtrack I picked up somewhere along the way is like, sometimes the wrong decision now is better than the right decision two weeks from now in terms of like, you know, while I don't necessarily agree with that a hundred percent, like we shouldn't be given wrong answers or bad information, but,
01:06:44
Speaker
You know, sometimes it's like we can take action now.
01:06:48
Speaker
To your point, and this actually leads to the second reason why I don't feel like I'm represented in this book.
01:06:54
Speaker
You know, I can't speak for all Black people and I can't speak for all Black women, but from my community of Black people, it's like there's no room for us to be wrong.
01:07:05
Speaker
There's no room for us to make mistakes.
01:07:08
Speaker
We, a lot of us are told growing up, you have to be better than the person next to you.
01:07:13
Speaker
because these opportunities don't come to you like they do for your peers that aren't Black.
01:07:19
Speaker
And so it's constantly proving yourself to make sure that people know that you are confident or I'm sorry, not confident, competent in your job.
01:07:27
Speaker
And so it's it literally is always making sure that we're on our P's and Q's, always making sure that we are the positive black person or the positive black woman or that I don't have a negative attitude or I don't want to be at a get together at somebody's house, even though culturally it's not for me.
01:07:48
Speaker
And so when I think about overthinking, I think about all those things.
01:07:52
Speaker
I'm carrying that on my back because I know I'm not the only one experiencing this.
01:07:57
Speaker
I know my peer, Black women peers or Black male peers aren't the only ones experiencing that.
01:08:02
Speaker
And so we can't just positively think out that or beat that.
01:08:09
Speaker
This is a systemic issue, a bias, a deeply biased issue that not only happens in hiring, but in a lot of functional areas.
01:08:21
Speaker
And so I think that's why I like the book on a surface level, but he doesn't really touch upon the complexity of how society works for and against people.
01:08:32
Speaker
And so when it comes to overthinking, his overthinking doesn't apply to my full life.
01:08:39
Speaker
Yeah, I think that that's really interesting.
01:08:42
Speaker
And thanks for sharing that, Jasmine, your perspective.
01:08:45
Speaker
I think...
01:08:47
Speaker
That what you're saying is definitely true that there, he doesn't give any aspects to like external things.
01:08:56
Speaker
Like it's all very internal in your process.
01:08:58
Speaker
And that, although for people from privilege that maybe they are so privileged that they don't have to worry about those external factors, but there are people in different backgrounds and situations that...
01:09:11
Speaker
may warrant that you can't only think about your own thoughts and how this is impacting you, but how you're being portrayed by others and what that looks like.
01:09:19
Speaker
Well, and Jasmine, I imagine there's probably also conflicting narratives going on there with you being told you have to be better than the person next to you.
01:09:30
Speaker
But I'm imagining there's probably either subconsciously or even more overtly like, but you can't be too much better because then you're going to look
01:09:40
Speaker
any sort of way of like arrogant or trying to, you know, so I imagine there's also conflicting messages, which then would make the, the thinking behind it and the processing of the systemic issues, like even more challenging.
01:09:52
Speaker
Cause it's like, what do you want from me?
01:09:55
Speaker
Or what are people telling I need to give?
01:09:57
Speaker
And it's like, because of those conflicting messages, and I feel like this shows up for a lot of marginalized identities in general, but you then start policing yourself and policing your personality.
01:10:10
Speaker
I think one thing in student affairs, I'm just going to be frank, gets under, is it my favorite saying, is be your authentic self.
01:10:21
Speaker
A lot of spaces in higher ed doesn't allow me to be my authentic self because it could be viewed as threatening.
01:10:29
Speaker
It could be viewed as rude.
01:10:31
Speaker
It could be viewed as ratchet or unprofessional.
01:10:34
Speaker
And so it's like, okay, I want to come to this event.
01:10:40
Speaker
I want to wear this outfit, but will my body be policed?
01:10:42
Speaker
So then I'm policing the clothes I wear.
01:10:45
Speaker
Or is somebody going to say something about my hair?
01:10:47
Speaker
So do I need to wear this type of hairstyle at an interview?
01:10:50
Speaker
So then I'm policing what type of beautician I go to, what hairstyle I wear.
01:10:55
Speaker
And so it runs so deep.
01:10:59
Speaker
And I know I'm not the only one that has experienced this.
01:11:02
Speaker
There really isn't a solution to these things, though.
01:11:08
Speaker
And I think that's the hard part.
01:11:10
Speaker
And that's what makes my type of overthinking difficult, because the author is right in many ways.
01:11:16
Speaker
Like asking yourself, is it true?
01:11:18
Speaker
Is it kind?
01:11:19
Speaker
Is it helpful?
01:11:20
Speaker
Like, yes, that's valid.
01:11:23
Speaker
But what else beneath the iceberg or below the iceberg is true?
01:11:27
Speaker
is where I don't see addressed.
01:11:30
Speaker
Yeah.
01:11:30
Speaker
And I love what you just said about that.
01:11:33
Speaker
Be your authentic self.
01:11:34
Speaker
Like, I couldn't agree with you more on that of like, just how aggravating again, I'm a white dude.
01:11:40
Speaker
Like, I don't have that experience, but it's like, yeah, that would be great if everybody could be their authentic, authentic selves, but we don't have a system in place where that's actually a reality that's going to be helpful or, um,
01:11:53
Speaker
empowering in any way for a lot of people.
01:11:57
Speaker
And until that system is built in place where a university is like, everyone can really, everyone's behind this.
01:12:04
Speaker
Like, you're just setting people, like by saying that as a VP of student affairs, like you're setting people up for failure in some ways.
Conclusion and Future Topics
01:12:13
Speaker
Well, that's a wrap for our second book club.
01:12:15
Speaker
For those of you interested in reading the next book further in advance, we will be discussing Upstream, the quest to solve problems before they happen, sometime in the next three to seven months.
01:12:26
Speaker
I already have one guest locked down, but would certainly be interested in having at least more.
01:12:31
Speaker
Drop me a line at swakuhopodcast at gmail.com if you are interested.
01:12:35
Speaker
I want to once again thank our guests, Jasmine Jennings and Sarah Frick.
01:12:39
Speaker
They certainly delivered and gave us a lot to overthink about.
01:12:43
Speaker
Time is such a valuable commodity, and I can't thank them enough for investing their time in this podcast today.
01:12:50
Speaker
Be sure to connect with and thank them on their preferred social media accounts list in the show notes.
01:12:56
Speaker
Since recording the last episode, I got a second request for advice out of the inbox.
01:13:01
Speaker
It's looking like we may have an advice episode on the horizon.
01:13:05
Speaker
I only need a couple more people to anonymously ask for professional advice.
01:13:08
Speaker
Once we have a handful of questions, I'll pull together a panel to provide their take on your situation and provide some recommendations and guidance.
01:13:16
Speaker
Consider it like Ann Landers, but for housing professionals.
01:13:19
Speaker
I hope you join us next time when we will be talking with Dr. Dustin Grobsch from Southern Methodist University about an article he published last year in the Journal of College and University Student Housing titled, Understanding the Expectations of Students with Autism to Increase Satisfaction with the On-Campus Living Experience.
01:13:37
Speaker
A link to the article will be in the show notes if you want to read it in advance.
01:13:41
Speaker
This will be our second episode talking about research findings with a Swakuho practitioner scholar.
01:13:47
Speaker
So get ready to be positioned to make evidence-based decisions.
01:13:51
Speaker
And with that, I say to you, good day.