Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Tiny Car Podcast episode #6
53 Plays11 months ago
Torben welcomes in Andy Martin to talk about the early days of the hobby.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Transition of the Hobby
00:00:03
Torben Rothgeb
for the Tiny Car Podcast. This is your host, Torto Roskib, and my co-host, Bob Madrid, coming to you live from the Lake Creek Studios in beautiful Minneapolis, the coolest city in the world.
00:00:16
Torben Rothgeb
All right, well hello everybody. I hope everybody is doing very well. Today I am lucky enough to be joined by a true pioneer of the hobby, Andy Martin. We're going to talk about all of the historical things of the hobby today, at least the history of the adult hobby as far as contests and things of that nature. Welcome Andy. Hello.
00:00:40
Torben Rothgeb
Well, it's good to have you here. And as I said, we're going to talk about the early days. I'm always very appreciative of ah the people who came along in a time when you know I feel like the Baby Boomers were growing up and the the model car hobby was kind of losing steam as far as ah driven by what kids were doing as video games were coming into play and stuff like that.
00:01:08
Torben Rothgeb
But ah for for you guys that that carried the mantle ah for the hobby and led it into transition into a hobby that was enjoyed by adults and enthusiasts and and things of that nature.
Contests and Early Experiences
00:01:23
Torben Rothgeb
So it was there for me when I got to a time in my life where I wanted to go back to model cars. so We're going to start off today talking about the MPC contest. I know you got on board at the very end of that, Andy. Tell me how that went. ah Well, actually, ah I went to a couple of them in my teen years that were held in Minneapolis and St. Paul at the ISCA custom car shows. The first couple times I went was at Minneapolis Auditorium.
00:01:59
Torben Rothgeb
and I didn't do very well, because I was kind of young and my stuff was terrible. Do you remember what you entered? ah Not really. ah But then, when I was 15, about to turn 16, I had gotten a little bit better. And i went to the they had moved the show from Minneapolis to St. Paul at the Civic Center. And ah I went and entered. And I actually won first in my age group.
00:02:29
Torben Rothgeb
ah I had a a drag racing. It was a a Beetle Gasser, lower gas class. Still had a Beetle engine. It wasn't you know what people think of as a Gasser. Now it was an actual NHRA Gasser. And I still have the model. Nice. Yeah, that's one of my favorites. um And yeah, so I won first in my age group. I won first motorcycle and first truck. OK. Yeah, so I was like, holy cow.
00:02:59
Torben Rothgeb
And some of the prizes they gave out were MPC model kits. And so I walked home with a couple of the hard hat hollers, useless model, and an Ironsides van. Oh, nice. you The 20th scale, of course, 20th scale Ford van.
Gatherings and Community Building
00:03:19
Torben Rothgeb
So yeah, no, the prizes, they were underwhelming.
00:03:23
Torben Rothgeb
Well, no, I think those bands go for quite a bit nowadays. Yeah, but of course. Back then, it didn't really impress you too much. That was 50 years ago. Yes. A lot of things from 50 years are worth a lot now that some people never guessed would be. Yeah, they were. Yeah, they were not nothing great. But anyway, so then what happened is the MPC contest didn't come to the Twin Cities anymore.
00:03:51
Torben Rothgeb
So I figured it was it was gone. And then one day, I was at a drug store, and I saw this publication called All About Model Cars. And I pick it up and go, what's this? And was an article about the MPC contest series, which was still going. And it it had the schedule for the rest of the year. Of course, I had my driver's license by then. I was building much better models. I was very excited about it.
00:04:21
Torben Rothgeb
And so I decided to go to the last one of the season, which was in Omaha. And it turned out that was the site of the national judging, where the best to show model from every NPC contest around the country would be. And they'd all be judged, and they'd crown the grand champion there. So I drove to Omaha, went to their car show, and entered my models. And I hung around the model of car booth.
00:04:50
Torben Rothgeb
After a little bit, I met Tim Boyd, okay ah Tom Woodruff, Chuck Helpe, a few other guys who had been regulars. I knew their names, and a couple of them I even recognized from their pictures in Model Car magazine. So they were legends by then? I s suppose, yeah. I don't like the word legend that much. But anyway, they were known to me, and I admired their work. ah And I met them.
00:05:21
Torben Rothgeb
And we all went out and had drinks after the show was over. And then um unbeknownst to me, I couldn't get in to see all the championship models. But they said, ah, but just come with us and we'll sneak in. Now, why couldn't you get in? It's a name for scars, or scars. Oh, why, Tucker? What's your name?
00:05:49
Torben Rothgeb
Don't worry about that. so i'm Sorry, we're having some technical difficulties here. Yeah. Something picked up on my speaker. Yeah. Uh, so the reason for that was they were only going to let in the actual entrance. Okay. You know, the people who had one best to show the shows around the country. That sounds very elitist. It was. Yes. Yeah. But, but these guys said, I'll just hang with us. You'll get in. So,
00:06:17
Torben Rothgeb
So I met up with them and got in, and my mind was blown. The models were so good. I had no idea models could be built so well. ahha yeah ah And I was so excited about it all. So when I was driving back to Minneapolis from Omaha, my mind was racing the whole way. What am I going to build?
00:06:40
Torben Rothgeb
i I was electrified. Yeah. No, I can certainly remember those moments when I got into it as an adult. Yeah. And so, of course, I started building contest worthy models right away. And then I find out they canceled the whole series. ah and Just my luck. Yeah. and And anyway, a couple of those models that I started For the next year's contests, I still have them. Did you ever finish them? A couple of them. yeah I start a lot of things, out like a lot of model builders do. But I actually finished a few. yeah it's Why is it so much more enjoyable to start a project than to finish one?
00:07:26
Torben Rothgeb
Well, it takes takes a real model builder to finish a model. i Any old person can start models. Yes. And they are fun because all you see is possibilities. yeah But when you go to finish, now you got to do the nitty gritty. You got to detail painting, the fitting, making sure everything looks right and works right.
00:07:49
Torben Rothgeb
And there's a million things that can go wrong, right? that yeah Especially when you're planning. You try to hit most of those, but... Yeah, especially some of the crazy models I build. Just like life, most of the the hard things you don't see coming a lot of times. So so then the MPC contest being done, yeah then that kind of opened the door to a combination of things. Well, I made the connections with these Ohio and Michigan guys. Like I said, Tim Boyd, Tom Woodruff, Chuck Helpe were the mainstays, but there were three or four other guys too. and So I stayed in touch with them. and So I wrote Tom Woodruff a letter, because that's way before emails. We wrote letters. This was a long time ago. We stayed in touch with a lot harder. You had to reach out and touch someone or write a letter and put a stamp on it. And long distance phone calls were expensive.
00:08:44
Torben Rothgeb
yeah so So I wrote Tom Woodruff a letter and he wrote one back to me and he said, well, I doubt you can make it, but you're welcome to come because I'm having a gathering at his house with Tim Boyd and Chuck Helpe and a few other guys, Bob Boast and Kerry Dale. Who else was there? I think that was about it. And he said, because, you know, I got the letter from him on on like a Tuesday,
00:09:17
Torben Rothgeb
And the gathering was Friday night you know in Ohio, 600 miles away. And I worked for myself at the time, so I called up Tom and said, I'm coming. I was just crazy enough that, yeah, yeah I went. And it again, it was a great, great time just hanging out in Tom Woodruff's garage. No GPS either, kind of like the pioneer days, a map. Had to use a paper map, of course. And and it was a great time. you know Because the next day we all went down to Columbus for the Hot Rod Nationals, ah you know, Carcher. And so it was at, in Tom's garage while we were all gathered, we had just gotten the latest issue of Scale Auto Enthusiast.
Publications and Hobby Evolution
00:10:04
Torben Rothgeb
and How long had that been going on at that point? Not quite a year. Well, a funny, a little ah back segue.
00:10:13
Torben Rothgeb
ah So when I was in Omaha, at the contest, scattered on the tables were these flyers to subscribe for a new magazine called Scale Out Enthusiast. It hadn't been published yet. And so I'm looking at this and going, oh. They wanted like $7.95 for a year's subscription, which was going to be six issues. And I thought, you know they're probably going to publish one, and then it will fold up like all the other magazines.
00:10:45
Torben Rothgeb
so So I sent the 795 in. So it turned out I was one of, Gary Schmidt told me this later, I was one of 50 people who subscribed to the first issue. nice cut He printed 800 copies and so his plan was to give a lot of them away to shops to see if they'd generate interest and then order more issues. and yeah so the first issue came and when you look at it today it's like not a lot here but again it was pretty thrilling to get it drama read through it five six times in a row ah because there was nothing for model cars then yeah you know I mean the MPC the car model magazine days were over and this before
00:11:38
Torben Rothgeb
Scale Auto started publishing. It was Dark Days for the Hobby, Model Car Hobby. So when were the last of the ah the car model magazines done with before Scale Auto picked it up again? of the very Well, from what I understand, is ah Car Model Magazine was pretty much done by 72 or three. So that had been a good seven-year stretch, about six, seven years? And then the scale auto started up in 79, basically. eighty Yeah. So yeah it was a good few years. yeah you And Gary knew a few of the people who had written for car model and got them on board, and some new people. And yeah, so it was pretty exciting.
00:12:29
Torben Rothgeb
i I honestly attribute the resurgence of the model car hobby to the fact that Gary printed the magazine. Yeah. No, there's no doubt about it. Yeah. and And he was, I would tell him that and he always said, no, you guys do all the work. And I go, yeah, but you provide the forum for everybody. Yes.
00:12:49
Torben Rothgeb
Well, and it is one thing for like the people like who are in cities like you where there's some pretty a strong following. But for me at the time I was growing up in Champaign Urbana. And when I got back into the hobby around, you know, 1995.
00:13:04
Torben Rothgeb
It was still just an infancy of the internet and stuff like that, right that um you know Scale Auto still was you know was just something out there of life that gave me you know something to aspire to and say, oh, this is what they're supposed to look like. yeah And so without that, a lot of people would would have you know yeah not had the direction that they did. Because I will remember us mailing out a lot of N and L sliders to people. Yeah. And they were passing around. They were photocopying them and passing them to their friends because there was no other way to communicate it. Yeah. Yeah, no doubt. no it's It's almost hard to envision a world like that nowadays. Yeah. Yeah. yeah ah But yeah, no, those are
00:13:53
Torben Rothgeb
Those are exciting times, and I was very lucky to you know stumble into it all. So then ah you met these guys at the MPC thing, and and then you drove all the way down to Ohio. and then Jackson Center. And ah that ended up being called ah the NNEL. And an early question I had when I first started going to these was, what does NNEL stand for, and how did it get its original name?
00:14:21
Torben Rothgeb
It stands for Nameless National Luminaries. And the reason for that is in an issue of Scale Auto. Now Mark Gustafson tried to put together a model car contest at national level the year before, and he announced it in his column in Scale Auto. And He went and put this all together. It was going to be held in conjunction with an IPMS national in Salt Lake City. okay So it would have been a contest just in a different room at the same time and place.
00:14:58
Torben Rothgeb
ok okay and and so But he ended up having to cancel it because only one person sent an entry in. And that was you, right? That was me. Now, did you get? You should have won it. I feel like you could have contested that. Well, if he had held it, yeah. But no, when you have such a stunning lack of interest like that, there's no choice but to cancel it. So now, you said you sent it off. Was he wanting people to mail in their minds? No, no, no. It was just an entry form. Entry form, OK. So I sent him 10 bucks in entry form.
00:15:35
Torben Rothgeb
um And he returned the money to me. But so, ah so then at the time that the N and an L started, Mark wrote a column. He was a little upset because nobody except me had entered this contest. And so he said, in his column, said, where are all the National luminaries in the hobby who shall remain nameless. Okay. Now the guys down in Ohio in Tom Woodruff's garage took a little umbrage to that because they're like, oh, who cares about some lame contest in Salt Lake City. And, uh, so the, uh, so Tom Woodruff was a total joker. Very funny guy. Uh, he got out a ah grocery bag.
00:16:29
Torben Rothgeb
and cut a couple eyes into it and he wrote on it, Mr. N and L, and put that on his head. And it took a picture of him and sent it off to Mark. And, you know, Mark took it all in stride. He thought it was pretty funny. ah In fact, Mark ended up flying out to Toledo for, I think it was the second N and L national. Okay. yeah And that would have been 81.
00:16:55
Torben Rothgeb
81 or 2, yeah. I'm a little fuzzy on the dates. I know approximately when it is. um And of course, the first In-N-L on Toledo was actually in my home motel room. Yes. I had a room with the Jim Cantman, and we got there early, and everybody gathered in our room. And there's at least 12, 15 of us. OK. And how many cars did you have on the table? I don't remember. Maybe 30.
00:17:26
Torben Rothgeb
And you say a table, but it was like the credenza, you know, the table in between the beds. That's about what it, because it was just our room. Yeah. Okay. So the next year, a couple of local guys, I think it was Tom Woodruff reserved a bigger room that, and this is all in the Toledo Turnpike Motel. Okay. It was a motel, not a hotel. And the place was known for what they called motel madness during The swap meet that was held nearby, it was one of John Carlisle's old toy land shows.
Contests and Community Engagement
00:18:01
Torben Rothgeb
Toledo is the biggest toy show, car, toy show in the country. I think it's what they call it. Uh, yeah, John, old toy land was the name of his company. Yeah. He had, he ah held swap meets all over the country. He did it for his living ah hu and he did a great job. Uh,
00:18:25
Torben Rothgeb
But anyway, so yeah, they had the Toledo Toy Show. And then so we had the N and L. You know, totally different locations within Mommy, Ohio. no We were outside of Toledo. OK. And yeah, so that second year, I think it was Tom Woodruff, our friend, at a bigger room. He brought a couple of sawhorses and ah closet doors from his house. Nice.
00:18:55
Torben Rothgeb
quality and set it up over the bed in the room. And so we had, there were probably 50, 70 models of that one. That was called the Merc Deuce Reunion. Oh, that was the theme? that Was that the first theme that was ever put together for those? Yeah, it was one of the first. They had other ones before then. And that's the one that Marc came to. okay And it was great. It was a wonderful time.
00:19:21
Torben Rothgeb
um And yeah, and it just, it was growing. And then, you know, the next year grew even more. Now, one change that I was kind of responsible for in the N and L story is that they started out numbering them. Like the first one we held was N and L number one. The next one was number two. And then they actually had one that was like three and a half.
00:19:46
Torben Rothgeb
So they were doing them sequentially, it doesn't matter where they were. okay But that was really confusing to people. Sounds confusing, yeah. And how how how would this continue?
00:19:57
Torben Rothgeb
and so ah So Jim Catman and I were designated to be the organizers of the next Toledo N and L. Maybe it was the fourth one, I'm not certain. And so we both said, hey, let's call this the N and L nationals.
00:20:16
Torben Rothgeb
Okay. There you go. That sounds really important. Yeah. So we'd call it the N and L nationals. And after that, everything in Toledo is N and L nationals. And then, and then so other places like in California, they had an N and L west and there's an N and L east and Atlanta guys, N and L south. And then our local show here.
00:20:41
Torben Rothgeb
A couple of guys came up with a different name. They call it the Greater Minnesota Open slash N-N-L. Yeah, it was something. GMO, N-N-L. Yeah. Didn't ring off the tongue. Yeah, so a couple of years into that, I said to everybody, it's not taken, so let's call it N-N-L North. Yeah. That's the other one was N-N-L Milwaukee. Yeah. So yeah, it's location or region. Mm-hmm.
00:21:09
Torben Rothgeb
Yeah, so anyway, so yeah, so responsible for international speaking. Congratulations. Yes. Yes. And, um, and I've heard just amazing stories of what the swap meet was like back then and that it was yeah really getting crazy out in the hotel parking lots and, uh, You know a lot of, and it was, they would tell me it was like a ah Walmart size of just nothing but model cars. And again, this was before eBay and anything like that. yeah So everybody had saved their money up the whole year almost. No, the Swami was incredible. It was held in the Lucas County Recreation Center, home of the Toledo Mud Hens, for real. They had a stadium attached to it.
00:21:59
Torben Rothgeb
Anyway, these gymnasiums were huge. And one time I was in there and each gymnasium was the size of six basketball courts. Wow. And it got so big that both buildings were filled and John Carlisle was trying to see how many other rooms attached to the complex he could use for more tables. And it wasn't all model cars. It was,
00:22:28
Torben Rothgeb
It was all transportation related toys and models. So it was die-caps. It was toys. It was model cars, match boxes. If it was automotive or truck related, it was there.
00:22:43
Torben Rothgeb
One of the funnier stories that both the Jim Campman and Jim Johnson talk about is some kind of robot that they were arguing over and paying hundreds of dollars. But
Technological Impact and Business
00:22:54
Torben Rothgeb
I don't know the exact details on this robot toy, but it's pretty big too. A robot toy. Yes, but it was in the hundreds of dollars back when hundreds of dollars was a lot of money. Oh, there were um yeah there were definitely some toys mixed in with all the car stuff. yeah Yeah, so a couple questions from that then. um What's the most money you ever spent at at one of those swap meets? And then what was your favorite thing, i did just the most amazing thing that blew your mind away that you didn't even think they would have that you took home from one of these N and L nationals? Oh, that's hard to say ah because as a collector,
00:23:38
Torben Rothgeb
I was always able to seek out stuff and find stuff even pre-internet, pre-swat meat days. okay um So you know when when I used to go to the swap meets, my eyes were constantly scanning, looking underneath tables, on top of tables. So I was always finding stuff. um So one of the guys who had actually started the Toledo Toy Show, his name was Herb Jackson, and he passed away suddenly And, uh, and so his partner, he actually had a retail store up near Detroit area. yeah And so he passed. And so his partner decided, we've got to clean out this place. You know, this all so we go to Toledo one time and he's got probably four or five tables in a row, all filled with all the stuff that they're clearing out from their store. Unusual stuff, weird stuff. And I remember buying quite a few things there.
00:24:37
Torben Rothgeb
I never spent a lot of money there, maybe a couple hundred. But what, do you remember anything specific that you got? Oh, let's see. ah One time I found a couple of really nice corgi minis, not smashed. ah yeah And they're original rally cars and I still have them in my collection.
00:25:02
Torben Rothgeb
I think I only paid like 20 each for them. and you they're They're worth probably three, 400 each now. um As far as kits, I mean, I was always you know more interested in buying resin and yeah detail stuff.
00:25:19
Torben Rothgeb
um But yeah, as far as, I was never a big kit collector. I had a lot, but yeah. ah So but it was always fun and it was more about going for the andn l and seeing the people at the show. ah hu yeah no totally i mean with Without Facebook or any correspondence, it you'd probably be you'd see these guys once or twice a year. yeah right and so yeah basically yeah yeah so So that was always great. um yeah Certain people I really look forward to seeing.
00:25:54
Torben Rothgeb
ahha and yeah it was It was great. Now, at about the same time, you talked about how the GSL was getting going. Can you talk about the early days of that film? Yeah. No, the very first GSL I did not go to because it was basically a local contest. A few guys from their area came. like I think there was one or two guys from Montana there. yeah So I went to the second one.
00:26:26
Torben Rothgeb
And there were two or three of us from out of town there. ah Tim Boyd came. Alan Cosby was there. And yeah and then regional guys, Montana, Wyoming. And and it was it was a good time. And ah one one guy, Wayne Saunders from New York, was there. And although I think that might have been the third one. yeah But anyway, so I went to the second and third ones.
00:26:53
Torben Rothgeb
and And they were fun. Really enjoyed them. um Mark ah never lived down from the second one, how he won everything. Oh, yeah. OK. Yeah, compared to the stuff on the table, how did they compare with the NFL Nationals? Were they just quality things at both of them? yeah At the time? Yeah. ah Pretty comparable. Over the years, the quality is just unbelievable.
00:27:24
Torben Rothgeb
and totally unbelievable. um You know, the stuff I build now casually would have killed back then. yeah ye But the stuff, the best stuff I build now doesn't even hold a candle today. Well, you know, with the materials and stuff, yeah. It it starts with a flawless paint job and and then all the other add-ons that you can do. I think a big part of it, to my mind, is psychological, to know that it can be built.
00:27:53
Torben Rothgeb
yeah You know, before I ever went down to Omaha for that last MPC contest, I didn't realize how good a model car could be. Once you know that, and you see that, you can work to that. Yeah. And it just builds. Everybody sees what everybody else is doing, and they build and build on that. Yeah, and the materials, the techniques, you know, photo etch, now I have 3D printing. ah But 3D printing is kind of, to me, is
00:28:24
Torben Rothgeb
It enhances choice, but it doesn't enhance quality generally. Because you still have to be able to build it well. yeah Absolutely. And that was the same thing when they came out with photo etched parts. And you'd see some people who threw all that stuff in. But at the end of the day, it comes back to fundamentals. And that might be like the icing on the cake. But if the cake is not very good, and don't tell me how much money you spent on photo etched stuff if you didn't nail the paint job, or it's not sitting on four wheels, or things like that.
00:29:00
Torben Rothgeb
I have judged where somebody comes up to me and afterwards and tells me how much they spent on their parts. I go, hey, that's great. But how about polishing your paint? How about making sure you don't have seams in the middle of your oil pan? you know Yeah. Well, the New York Mets have had the highest payroll for a few years, and they still haven't won a World Series in a long time. So it yeah doesn't guarantee success. Exactly. Yeah.
00:29:27
Torben Rothgeb
yeah so um You know and the funny thing I've noticed too with some of the people and a few in our club ah Who they start with the 3d printing and then they never build anything again, you know So it is a definite time suck. I think well one of one of the best model builders in the country His name is Bill Geary lives. Yeah, Pennsylvania does replica stock stuff and he's incredible But he found 3d printing And yeah now he builds virtually. he still He still dabbles a little bit. He's trying to get a couple of things done. yeah But he is printing and printing and printing stuff. And it's fantastic stuff. And he is modifying all the files, and he's creating files. and I mean, it's it's incredible stuff. But he isn't building that much anymore. It's a very scary rabbit hole that you can go down. Yeah, and personally,
00:30:26
Torben Rothgeb
I'm not going to touch it. ahha ah it's just I'm getting older. My brain is full. I'm not going to do 3D printing. I'll certainly buy parts from other people and you know have somebody print something for me if they're willing. and but yeah well It seems like out of the the five or six guys in the RPM club, I think Steve Hanson and Bill Reed have been able to complete some of their stuff. yeah And Chad trust, but then there's other guys that they got 3d printer and you you never saw them complete aid anything. Yeah. All those, those guys are, uh, that you mentioned are really good builders. Yeah. and So absolutely. Yeah. So they can take kit parts or 3d printed parts or any parts and make a good model. Yeah. Yeah. No, our club is is tough. Uh,
00:31:14
Torben Rothgeb
The last ah podcast I did with Bob was just talking about the club contest. And you know it started with the N and L North started to get really tough. you know And you had the Canadian guys and and the Caspers and all the other different people. And now it's our club. Just getting winning something in that ah with so many great builders is quite an accomplishment. you know So definitely. Yeah. yeah And you know the one thing that I The one thing I don't like in the club and at the NNEL is everything has turned into a vote now. Yeah.
Community and Influential Figures
00:31:51
Torben Rothgeb
And I'm like going to actual judged contests. I love NNELs. And one of the one of the thoughts, this is going back a little bit to the formation of the NNEL and how it developed, is one of our models was seeing street rod nationals.
00:32:12
Torben Rothgeb
where everybody just showed up, looked at cars, had a good time, talked. There was no company competition. It wasn't a race. It wasn't a car show. It was a non-competitive event. And that, so the N and Ls were, you know, sort of like duplicating a street rod show.
00:32:37
Torben Rothgeb
It's just we wanted people to just come and have a good time, show off the stuff, look at other people's stuff, and non-competitive, just fun. And so the Toledo Annanellis, we still wanted to do like a people's choice, or we'd have a theme, and what's the best model of that theme. But then the guys running the Toledo show, I think it was the Cleveland Club,
00:33:04
Torben Rothgeb
a yeah They got a little out of hand for a few years. Like one time the theme was 50s. So they had a trophy for 50, 51, 52, 53. They had one a trophy for each year. Oh, wow. And it was like, and after a while, so I think a couple of wiser, cooler heads prevailed and said, no, let's cut this back. This is ridiculous. So they would just do ah a best theme and a people's choice.
00:33:34
Torben Rothgeb
and a best junior, always got to have a best junior. um Yeah. it Well, I went to the last, uh, N and L nationals and I was yeah lucky enough to be in the room with just so many yeah pioneers of the hobby and listening to them talk.
00:33:50
Torben Rothgeb
And it did ah kind of strike me as funny as like, um you know, they said that there were going to be no awards and, but then I think it's just human nature to kind of be a little bit competitive. But I will say they, they stayed pretty true to, you know, cause there were only a few awards and most of them were given by separate people who wanted to do an award yeah and stuff like that. So they held pretty true to the non-competitive side of things. yeah It was never judged.
00:34:20
Torben Rothgeb
And once in a while you could see somebody show up who just, they had to win something. They were just, they were such a mindset. yeah And they usually would come for a little while, a year or two, and then they'd disappear. Yeah. Remember one year, or one guy throughout the whole evening. Now the Ann and Al room, a lot of people in and out, the doors were open if the weather was nice. if So there was dust in the room.
00:34:50
Torben Rothgeb
And Dust was a little bit of dust, ahhu was settling on each model. One guy went around to each of his models, and he maybe had five models in the show, and he dusted each one of his ah probably four or five times that evening yeah to keep it pristine. I was like, dude, what's your issue here?
00:35:17
Torben Rothgeb
yeah but you' trying to blow dust on the other cars while he was doing it. But yeah, no, I didn't. And, you know, ah I never want to be I want to never want to tell people how to hobby, you know, and and it's ah and sometimes I look at like, you know, softball, you know, sometimes, you know, there's different leagues of softball and there's those guys who have the matching armbands and they're coming in the second base, taking people out and they're want their softball team to go to nationals.
00:35:46
Torben Rothgeb
and then there's other teams that just ah you know just an excuse to drink beer on the weekends or on the weeknights and get out of the house and just play and there's all in-betweens and that's the same you know with our hobby and you know if that motivates you and that's one of your your things I appreciate it I love seeing you know the things that have taken three years to build and they've ah totally blown up the car and detailed every little piece. You know, I i appreciate seeing that, yeah um you know, and whatever makes you happy. That's what Salt Lake City was about. Yeah. And I love that aspect of it. I ah gave up any of my hopes and dreams many years ago. I was just if i I thought if I'm really lucky and things work out just right, I might place in a class out there. Yeah. And
00:36:42
Torben Rothgeb
So my best year out there was 2007 and I actually won street rod class and motorcycle class. So I was pretty, and after that it was all downhill. So what did you win it with? Street rod, I had a T bucket okay that had a flat head of V12 in it with twin blowers mounted off the front.
00:37:09
Torben Rothgeb
Giant drag slicks in back with wire wheels and white walls. It was ah ah it was quite the... it was My best models are come out of the parts box. Yeah. And this was a parts box special. It's like, hey, I love this engine. I love this T-bucket body. And he had these wheels and tires. and Yeah. I just get an idea in England.
00:37:36
Torben Rothgeb
of what I want it to look like and then start making it happen from there. Yeah, over the years you've been known for a lot of different creative ah builds. Where does that ah come from, do you think? I don't know. i just I've always been pretty imaginative. It just that comes naturally to me. I like wild designs. But the thing about my stuff is It's as wild as it can be and still be a real car. You know, drivable, raceable. Uh, yeah, something that could actually be built and could actually function, uh, but still to be real interesting. And my other cars, I do replicas, but they've got to be pretty interesting cars. You'll never catch me doing like a fifties Chevy.
00:38:31
Torben Rothgeb
Uh-huh. That just doesn't... I like the real ones. They're fine. But as far as building a model, no. Duesenberg? Sure. Bugatti's. Minis. I have my love affair with Minis. So you it seems like you really like the cars of like what? 20s and 30s? Any era. Any era at all. But it's got to be cool and interesting. OK.
00:39:00
Torben Rothgeb
ah One of my dreams would be to scratch build a model of a 1908 era American underslung touring car. okay Because most people have never even heard of it. But I absolutely love those things. You like the unique stuff, certainly. Yeah. And I mean, it was 1908. It was the Lamborghini Countach of its day. It was that radical, that fast, that sporting.
00:39:29
Torben Rothgeb
ah Lambrini Kuntash, I love them. You know, one of my other favorites is the Phantom Corsair, which is this big black pumping and pumpkin seed looking thing. And so yeah, classic cars. I like brass era stuff because those were truly locomotives on the road. ah Steam engines or? No, brass era cars, which are Approximately 1905 to World War I. And like the Oldsmobile Limited was a touring car, but it was about eight feet tall. It had a 700 cubic inch inline six and 42 inch diameter wheels. That was close to being a locomotive on the road. Eight feet tall. How did you get in it?
00:40:27
Torben Rothgeb
had action bolt that shoted you It actually had a two-step running board. OK. Wow. Yeah. Now, speaking of scratch-billing things, ah you you had a ah resin business. it Was it first ah Austin Martin? a yeah Yeah, I don't want to talk about that, because it's just stupid. but no i And then Aardvark. Aardvark Models is my company name.
00:40:54
Torben Rothgeb
and Yeah, I did resident casting. I started out doing one 43rd scale built up models, did a couple of speed record cars, did a couple of Camaros. Um, and then I just settled on doing one 24th scale because that's what sold in the US. Uh-huh. And, uh, so I did my Maserati birdcages, you know, which approximately 1960, 61, uh, road racing cars. And then I did the Corvette SS.
00:41:24
Torben Rothgeb
from 1957, which is a one-off GM engineering race car. Yeah, so I i built sold them as built models and um kits and did that for quite a while. And then i so I sort of quit for a while and I started up again in about 2006 or 2007.
00:41:48
Torben Rothgeb
and I just did bodies and conversion kits. I did some funny car bodies that I designed. Yeah. And like a 59 Cadillac convertible funny car body or a VW Beetle modern funny car body. And these came straight out of your mind, not to anything that was raced. It was not a copy of anything. Uh-huh. Nice. So I did things like that. And so I wanted to sell them as a complete conversion kit. So you'd need to get a Ravel funny car.
00:42:20
Torben Rothgeb
Then you get my kit, which contained a resin body, um oh proper size drag slicks, because the one that came in the reveal kits were too small, ahha and decals. And it basically is, and then even a prop rod for the body and a new style and you know injector hat. yeah So is all these pieces so you can make the whole thing. You don't have to scratch build anything. ahha So you didn't have to make the tin work between the body and the frame. I provided that. Nice. Yeah. So it was like a complete conversion kit. So I did a bunch of those and then I did some replica stock stuff. I did some model T conversions. Okay. Like a, a center door T sedan from 1915 and 1920. And then there was another T called the Coupelet. So it was sort of like a phone booth style, but it was a convertible. Okay. Yeah.
00:43:17
Torben Rothgeb
a very cool car. So I did some of those and I did ah did a body, I did one Bugatti body, and I was doing some parts too. like I did some proper Bugatti Type 35 wheels to go on the Monogram kit because those are not Type 35 wheels on the Monogram kit, those are Type 51 wheels.
00:43:40
Torben Rothgeb
okay is that, you know, I won't bother you with the differences. no but So that monogram kit wasn't quite correct. Okay. Yeah. So Bob Materich built a 1929 Monaco winner using my wheels okay to make it accurate. As a British racing green Bugatti he built. ah yeah So I was doing bits and pieces like that, which were fun. So what was the biggest challenge doing rez and building cars for people?
00:44:13
Torben Rothgeb
Getting paid. Uh-huh. That you had people who would shortchange you on stuff like that? or I never let it get to that. Yeah. Because i i read from day one, I required payment in a full before I put anything in the mail. OK. But there are other people screwing around. um I just found it.
00:44:34
Torben Rothgeb
ah I ended up quitting because I just didn't make much money. And yeah i I didn't have the business skills to take it to the next level. and For me, I was like i was ah still a little bit too much of a hobbyist. yeah There are some people out there who are really horrible at the business side of it. I was kind of medium, not good, but not horrible. ah hu you know I never took money from people unless I had product to give to them. yeah And I saw people who got way behind the eight ball. They'd take money.
00:45:09
Torben Rothgeb
They spend it on whatever, and then they still owe people the product. yeah Then they go, okay, well, I need more money, so I'll take more money from somebody else. Now there are a couple of cycles behind the eight wall, yeah and everybody in the hobby is hating their ass. Yeah, I can imagine. I never did that.
00:45:26
Torben Rothgeb
cover No, we we take our project seriously. And if you have something in your mind that you're going to build and you've paid somebody money and don't get it, some of those stories are legendary. with the more most Most of the people I dealt with were collectors rather than builders. ah know There were quite a few builders, but you know my focus was collectors because that's where I could make money because I would build my own kits.
00:45:54
Torben Rothgeb
hu and you know And i i made a I got by you know for a number of years, five years, seven years. That was my only work. hu But I got to the point where yeah and know I'd like to drive a nice car one day.
00:46:13
Torben Rothgeb
i'd like to yeah And then after I got married, I went for five more years. And I got a lot more serious about it. I did a lot better. ah But even at at at one point, I just said, enough's enough. sign off And I quit. Is there anything you miss about it? The freedom. Yeah. Working on your own. The independence. Yeah. Yeah. I love the independence, especially when you have your shitty job and you got to deal with a bunch of idiots. I'm lucky because right now, I've got a great job. And I'm only a couple of years from retiring. so
00:46:51
Torben Rothgeb
Yes. Yeah. So know when you retire, you think you might do some of that? Just for fun? Maybe. I'm talking about the idea. Now you you said one time you had a 70 Mustang Trans Am car that you were working on. Yeah. yeah yeah it was It was another guy, Tim Sandvig, of years ago he had ah he worked for me for a while.
00:47:19
Torben Rothgeb
And so he learned resin casting from me. And he had a company called Cheesecast. Cheesecast. Yep. OK. He was from Wisconsin. Makes sense. And so his name was Tim Sandvig. So at first he was going to call it TS Models. And I said, oh, Tim, that's so boring. Nobody's going to remember that. So you've got to have a crazy name. And you're like, call it Cheesecast from Wisconsin. He's like, I love that name. So he called it Cheesecast. And he did a nice job of casting.
00:47:49
Torben Rothgeb
And, uh, he did some masters like, uh, about the time he started that is when NASCAR started racing with pickups. Okay. But there were no kits yet. Okay. So he took the stock pickup kits and he modified them so they'd fit on NASCAR chassis. So you could build the NASCAR pickups. He mastered the, all those bodies and cast them up and they were nice.
00:48:16
Torben Rothgeb
But Tim was one of these guys who got behind the eight ball too many times okay and didn't deliver stuff that was paid for. And yeah, he he got into trouble and everybody hated his ass after a while. And ah yeah and so i have I haven't seen him in years. So I don't know if he's still in.
00:48:37
Torben Rothgeb
Cadot, Wisconsin or not? Oh, okay. Yeah, I think at the dungeon they have ah one of the four trucks. Yeah, he sold a few to those guys. yeah But anyway, um so yeah, he did casting too. I started a few guys out. thank ah Good stuff, those guys originally kind of got somehow going They did funny car bodies, right? Yeah, funny cars and muscle cars and street rod stuff. They did did did nice work. um But they were never, the one thing I didn't like about them was the funny cars. It's just a body shell. Yeah. And you know, most of those cars, there weren't correct frames for most of them. I'm big on accuracy. Okay. I can't just throw a body onto any old funny car chassis because
00:49:32
Torben Rothgeb
The real ones, the chassis were all very different. if Okay. so So you would have liked them to have ah the chassis and they'd really see under-tin stuff? Yeah. The tin, like even if they were using a kit chassis, that was close. That would have been fine. But there was no connecting tissue. There was no tin work, so you could mount the body. ahha And, you know, their attitude was, oh, well, you can just modify the kit stuff. and it's like You know, if you got the skills like you guys do, that's great. Uh-huh. But most people don't. yeah Yeah. Yeah. That was my whole thing with art work models. I was trying to provide a complete experience. Yes. yeah No scratch building required. Straight out of the box. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, it still takes seal because it's a resin cast arts.
00:50:26
Torben Rothgeb
Now, do you think the 3D printing business will ever get to that point? where It seems like I've seen some on eBay, but I've never bit the bullet and bought one of them. I think a few of the producers of 3D printed stuff are doing complete kits. ah In fact, I just bought some parts, mini parts, ahha from an outfit in Ukraine.
00:50:56
Torben Rothgeb
who hasn't been bombed by the Russians yet. Yeah, it is funny because in the other club they talk about Ukraine stuff. Yeah. Anyway, eyes look they're on eBay and the kits they've got are incredible. They do a Porsche 550 Spyder, complete kit, really nicely done. ah I mean, and you know, the price is reasonable. I forgot what it was, 120, 140 bucks. But your only other choice is Model Factory Hero for $400 and then Model Factory Heroes stuff you still gotta build it. Yes, and I've heard they're pretty challenging. They they can be they can be yeah a lot of white metal some 3d printed Yeah, they're and what are the instructions like on those? I don't know. I've never a tackled one. Uh-huh. I haven't been able to afford Oh, they're some of them go over a thousand dollars for the bigger car. Yeah. Yeah, I'll have to ask Cameron He's got a Porsche 917 from ah
00:51:55
Torben Rothgeb
Model factory hero. Yes. He talks about those a lot. And he actually, uh, the last time I was at Bob's house, he traded Bob from one of them. And I can't get it straight, which one of them was driven by Jackie Stewart. And I can't remember if um I think Bob might've traded that one to Cameron. Okay. Formula one car. a Formula one. Okay. yeah I'm not a Porsche. Yeah. I don't think Jackie Stewart ever drove a Porsche.
00:52:21
Torben Rothgeb
Yeah, no, um ah it's it's unfortunately Bob's not here. He could help me, and certainly Cameron could too, because he's an encyclopedia. Oh, yes. All of the the road racing, any kind of stuff like that. Yeah. about tell yeah So um no, as ah since we're talking about the history of the hobby and the early days of stuff, um if there was a Mount Rushmore of ah of the hobby, who would you put on it?
00:52:49
Torben Rothgeb
ah My first choice would be Don Emmons. okay Probably not a household name today, unless you're older. But he used to write in Rod and Custom Magazine, Rod and Custom Models Magazine, which was printed, i think I think they printed seven or eight issues. So as the publishers of Rod and Custom, they put out a model magazine, which is a fantastic magazine.
00:53:19
Torben Rothgeb
ah And then model car science. And his column was called detail for real. And he was very clever about how you can add realism to your models. And he's a wonderful builder. And his whole collection of models is out in the museum in Salt Lake City. Nice. And I got to meet him there. I had a couple of the GSL's 2007 through 2013 or so. I think he has since passed away.
00:53:51
Torben Rothgeb
Because he was about 80 when I first met him. But super nice guy. ah Encyclopedic history of the hobby. And he had connections at AMT of all places, even though he's in California, his connections were with AMT. OK. No, the Meyers-Manks dune buggy kit. That's still available. That was his Meyers-Manks. Oh, wow.
00:54:20
Torben Rothgeb
So if you build it right out of the box, got the right color, it's Don Emmons, Meyers, Banks. Nice. He had grown wheels on it. I mean, it was his car. And he was friends with Tommy Ivo. And so he made the connection with AMT to do some of those Tommy Ivo dragsters. They did a mid-engine and a front-engine car in the 70s. So he was just connected. And like I said, just the nicest guy, great stories. I love the guy.
00:54:51
Torben Rothgeb
And, uh, you know, remember, I'll always remember meeting him. I mean, I was in my forties when I met him, but it was still a thrill. Yeah. Really like a little kid. yeah It really was. Yeah. And, uh, so yeah, he, he's one of the, the Mount Rushmore and also on the Mount Rushmore would be, uh, Gary Schmidt for putting out the magazine.
00:55:15
Torben Rothgeb
and doing such a good job for so many years, that that really pulled the hobby together. And he constantly poo-pooed his contribution, but I still insist that the hobby wouldn't be anything like it is today without him making publishing that magazine.
00:55:32
Torben Rothgeb
yeah so ah Now, speaking of scale auto, any opinions on why that kind of went out of business?
00:55:44
Torben Rothgeb
Magazines themselves were, I mean, so many titles have gone the way of the dodo at this point. Car magazines, you know, important titles. They're gone. It's just people aren't buying magazines like they used to. And Sculato was always low circulation. I think his biggest year ever might have been 50,000 copies. Yeah. Yeah.
00:56:13
Torben Rothgeb
He sold it to Calm Back. I think circulation increased after that. I don't know what it ultimately got up to, but if it was sub 100,000. So that just isn't going to survive in the modern era. And then I kind of lost interest in the magazine too, because I had a couple of editors who are not the greatest.
00:56:35
Torben Rothgeb
ahha ah What didn't you like about him? Well, I forget his name now. um He was a nice enough guy when you met him, but, uh, he did a few articles and basically his articles were how I screwed up this model so badly. And I was like, and then they did a stuff with diecast and I just absolutely didn't care. There are diecast magazines out there. Yeah. Don't pollute the model car magazine with diecast stuff. So it's just, you know,
00:57:08
Torben Rothgeb
So you felt like they were kind of dumbing it down and that is going away from the enthusiasts. They were very deliberately not emphasizing excellence in building because they thought it was too elitist. It's like they didn't want to feature outstanding models. But you know what? Even when I was a kid, building crappy models would glue all over them.
00:57:32
Torben Rothgeb
I'd see the really good models in the magazine. It's inspirational. Yeah. It's inspirational to people. So, yeah. buy too So his name? Jim Holland? Yes. That sounds familiar. Yeah. He he was dumbing down the magazine ah and basically a lot of crappy articles. The only good articles were Tim Boyd's and oh Rick Hanmore.
00:57:59
Torben Rothgeb
Uh, he did really good articles. Uh, so yeah, there were definitely some people contributing. We're doing a good job. And I really loved drew high water with a bench race. Oh yeah. Yeah. He was, and he was good. And Bill Coulter as well. I'm a NASCAR guy. So I appreciate those guys. And then, uh, Andy Kellogg, uh, took over and I did appreciate the racing, uh, parts of those. Yeah. Yeah. No, there were definitely good contributors over the years, but.
00:58:26
Torben Rothgeb
Yeah, so it's a combination of just magazines just not happening and then the editorial direction of the magazine just sucked for a while. Yeah. Now have you, uh, what's the new magazine out there? Uh, they just came out with you. You have no idea. Ah, this is probably where I miss Bob. Bob is a more detailed. Okay. And I'm auto trader, not auto trader. I think auto is in the name though. Yeah. Anyway, the, the guy who's,
00:58:55
Torben Rothgeb
putting it out, I think his name is Scott Colmer. Okay. And he actually contacted me cause he wanted to do a feature on my portion 928 funny car, knife which I was building for the next year's MPC contest before it was canceled. Anyway, yeah, I haven't seen that yet. so Okay. Cause I know ah Tim boy did a couple articles in those, so I always like his work. Yeah. So, so, so in that Mount Rushmore, uh, also,
00:59:23
Torben Rothgeb
I got to put in Gustafson because he just putting on the Salt Lake contest for how many years he did. And it was a lot of work and he did a really good job. you know And the coverage, you know it became the standard in the country for model car building. let you know If you're going to make it big, you go to Salt Lake City contest. It's like the Olympics. Yeah. then And somebody else I'd put on that.
00:59:51
Torben Rothgeb
Mount Rushmore, which is probably getting a little longer, would be Tim Boyd. Yeah. No, I didn't say the meet him. Because in between model cars, car model magazine and scale auto, you had Tim Boyd's column and street rotter. He had the model car column and street rotter for all those years in between. And that was just a lifeline for model car builders. You know, it's like, you know, street rider itself, You know, I kind of like street rods, so I would get the magazine, but I would get it for his column. Yes. Yeah. So he sustained so much interest. And then when the magazines revived again, he wrote for them all for years and still does. And he's a great guy and he always encouraged people. He always
01:00:45
Torben Rothgeb
take pictures of somebody's models and put them in the column if they were new to the hobby. Because that's a pretty big thrill when you see your first model in a magazine. Oh, yeah. And ah Tim was great. He was a total ambassador to the hobby. And yeah, he's definitely on the Mount Rushmore. No, that was one of the the many things Uh, the, in that weekend that I was able to go to the last N and L nationals and getting to go to Tim Boyd's house and see all his stuff yeah and all the things I'd seen in magazines, uh, just in person was really cool. And just talking to him is so you nice. He always did stuff like that to encourage people. Yeah. No, he was fantastic for the hobby.
01:01:32
Torben Rothgeb
And I know to even today, I still have the muscle car color articles, and that was one of my favorites. yeah and So anytime they come out, like Rebelle came out with their 71 Mustang, I went back to the Ford muscle car colors. And so oh, Grabber Lime, that is the color I want to build that in. You know, I always had fun with Tim. Me and Jim Cameron and Tim have some funny stories.
01:02:01
Torben Rothgeb
Uh, so, so one of, one of the N and L's, uh, it was probably four or five years in. It was the shopping center, N and L. Okay. One of the guys who lived near Toledo, we weren't getting the room we wanted at the recreation center. So the guy found a storefront in a little strip shopping mall that was probably a quarter mile away from the Lutt recreation center. Okay. You know, it was plenty of room.
01:02:30
Torben Rothgeb
And so the N and L was in a storefront one year. Fun. Yeah. And, uh, so, uh, so Tim Boyd and Chuck Helpe were really good friends for eons and gave each other a lot of crap. And so, so one time apparently Tim had gone out with a woman and he's asking Chuck afterwards. He was in, Chuck was in the car and he said, Oh, can you still, can you smell her perfume?
01:02:59
Torben Rothgeb
still in the car, and they were going on and on about this. And Chuck was getting in with so much shit. And ah so at that N and L, Chuck had a video camera. That was back when the video cameras were still pretty pricey. So he's going around the entire N and L asking people crazy questions like, so what do you think of Tim's sexuality? And everybody was like, oh, gee, I don't know.
01:03:29
Torben Rothgeb
yeah And so I just looked right into the camera lens, said, well, Chuck, did you know that Tim is a trisexual? And Chuck says, well, what is a trisexual? And I said, he tries.
01:03:47
Torben Rothgeb
And Chuck almost dropped the camera. It was everything he could do to shut it off and lower it down, because he was completely cracked up. He just wasn't expecting that at all.
01:03:59
Torben Rothgeb
Now, what was Tim's reaction to that? He thought my joke was really funny. He saw that Chuck just about dropped the camera, so he gave me a thumbs up. Tim can take the shit like he can't believe. Yeah, no, he's a great guy. And Chuck would dish it out. I almost didn't go to the last N and L because of Chuck. Oh, OK. Because, you know, you kid around with people and this and that. Chuck was a guy who could He could dish it, but he couldn't take it. okay yeah And so one of his early models was that six-wheeler custom. you call It was called Future Shock. He painted pearl colors and had a Porsche engine in the back. Amazing model. And so i you know obviously he's ripping off the Tyrell six-wheeled Formula One car. And so I saw a picture.
01:04:55
Torben Rothgeb
of somebody made a six wheeled jack, floor jack, you know four wheeled wheels in front, two bigger ones in back, just a floor jack though. And so i've yeah I found that on the internet and I sent it off. Well, rumor has it that creator of an early six-wheeled customs is now going to be showing up with his jack or something like that. It was all good humor and yeah he just got nasty about it. Oh, that's unfortunate. Yeah. He he changed a lot over the years. you know he He started out as a stockbroker and he got into finance and the money got to him. And I think at the end before he died, he was a trumper.
01:05:37
Torben Rothgeb
But anyway. and Well, yeah. yeah um Now, i did you ever hear the story where Tim was taking a picture of somebody's car? Oh, yeah. yeah and I know that story. And he he had a backdrop. What what was your version of that story? Tim had gone down to Tom Woodruff's house to take pictures of a bunch of his street rod models.
01:06:03
Torben Rothgeb
because Tom's nickname was the Rod Father. He was the hot rod and street rod guy. ah And so Tim was taking pictures and during the photo session, as either the backdrop or it was the camera, fell down and smashed Tom's model. And Tom didn't say a word. He just picked up the pieces and put them away. And then he continued on with Tim as if nothing had happened.
01:06:32
Torben Rothgeb
Tim is absolutely mortified. Yes. Yeah, I can imagine. Yeah. But Tom Woodruff, he was just such a polite gentleman. Okay. Yeah. He wouldn't dare say anything about it. He didn't get mad or anything? No. Didn't even mention it. Didn't even acknowledge that it happened.
01:06:56
Torben Rothgeb
Well, we had a moment like that in the RPM Club, I guess, that one of the first Ohio national shows that everybody or a big group of guys went to. um Apparently they had, I can't remember if it was somebody's car, they rented it. But anyway, it was one of those SUBs with the hatchback on.
01:07:15
Torben Rothgeb
And apparently once they got to the place, and they put the hatch back up and ah somebody's tote just flipped over and it was Bob's tote. He can imagine the sound of them pulling it back over and everything being destroyed. So, yeah. yeah no And I think about that every time I open up the back trunk of something being in there. Well, so one time I went to Toledo.
01:07:45
Torben Rothgeb
And I saw Bob Hood there. I said, hey Bob, how's it going? He's just, he looked like somebody had just killed his puppy. um let's Well, he had his model ready to go ah and he ended up, he put it in a grocery bag for the box, couple boxes in a grocery bag, put it right by the door when he left.
01:08:10
Torben Rothgeb
He grabbed the bag of recycling and his model went into the trash. o And he didn't discover it until he was, until we saw him. Oh wow. So yeah, he was, he was a little glum that weekend. ah Yeah, you just, you you take that for granted, but that is one of the important aspects of the hobby, transporting ah your cars and making sure they all get there, I guess.
01:08:36
Torben Rothgeb
um Well, speaking of Hood, he is in the MCCM Club, and I'm in the RTM and the MSM Club, um and so you, being from Minneapolis as well, you were there when ah all these clubs were starting out, turned early on. Couple of them, yeah. So tell me about your experience. Well, I started out, so years ago they used to have but like an all twin cities, all clubs show every year at the registry hotel, which is gone. It's it's right near where the Mall of America is. The Thunderbird Hotel? Registry. Oh, the registry. oh It's gone. There's, there's, uh-huh. Yeah. they They tore it down for the, when they built a new runway at the airport because it was too tall ah near the end of the runway. So it's, it's gone. But they used to have a show there every year and it was all the clubs. And I saw, hey, this could be interesting.
01:09:35
Torben Rothgeb
It was mostly airplanes, a lot of armor. But then I saw one table there with a bunch of cars on it. And there were a couple of guys sitting next to him. I said, oh, is there a model car club around? And the guy goes, no. Well, we're we're kind of an all subjects club, but you're welcome to come to our club meeting. And they met at Powderhorn Park. okay And that was and MSM, Minnesota Scale Modelers.
01:10:00
Torben Rothgeb
And it was an IPMS all-interest club. And so that's the first club I went to. And at a certain point, more and more car guys came, almost overwhelming everybody else. And then a bunch of the car guys split off to form MCCM. And I was still part of Minnesota Scale Modelers, but I was actually the first president of MCCM.
01:10:27
Torben Rothgeb
Oh, okay. Nice. Interesting. Yeah. And, uh, yeah, for 18 months, cause nobody would take over from me. Uh, yeah. And, uh, and then there was a split with MCCM and I can't remember the name of the other group, but they would meet at some guy's houses. And so for a period of about two, three years, that club split into two and then they sort of rejoined again.
01:10:54
Torben Rothgeb
OK, so out of the people that were in MSM and went to MCCM, who were anybody that I would know? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, you know, Bob Hood, Jim Cameron. Uh-huh. Yeah, a lot of the guys, Kirby, Kirby Hughes, Dave Eckberg. Yeah, a whole bunch of those guys. OK. You know, came to MSM first, and then they went to MCCM and stayed with MCCM. And where did MCCM meet them?
01:11:24
Torben Rothgeb
Uh, different places, uh, different, uh, one point they were meeting up near a university hobbies in Spring Lake park. Um, yeah, they've met in a bunch of different places over the years. Okay. Uh, interesting. I have no idea where they're meeting currently.
01:11:44
Torben Rothgeb
Well, I haven't gone in a long time. I could tell you because I've been going to the last few of them. um But Bob Drive. I'm sorry to hear that. that's well i I really enjoyed the, yeah you know, all three of the clubs have a different culture.
01:12:00
Torben Rothgeb
and And so I i do enjoy ah enjoy that club. It's fun. um But i unfortunately, Bob drives. And I'm the type of person, if I'm riding in a car, I couldn't tell you where it is. I know it's north. It's ah maybe Fridley or somewhere like that. Is it in the library? It's like a recreation center. And it's right next to a pickleball court.
01:12:26
Torben Rothgeb
um So, uh, but, uh, like, but I'm going to have to cause Bob can't go this month. So I'm going to be driving my, myself. Um, so, but, uh, um, well now, and, and I also go to the MSM, which, uh, meets at a member's house now, um, that is up in Brooklyn park. Okay. Cause the original MSM, we ended up doing laying down to like three guys. Okay. And then one of them moved to Oregon and the other one died.
01:12:55
Torben Rothgeb
OK. And although there was another guy who just quit showing up, um so MSM, the original, died. It was gone. So the current one, they just revived the name. Yeah. And, you know, the the idea of it to be an all subjects club. And I remember you being in there early on when my early days, when I went and it was at the Mississippi Library. Yeah, I went. I went a few times. John Ross, I think, had gotten together, and we're meeting at the libraries. And then um when the pandemic came, we started meeting again at another John's house. okay And he is he's currently doing it. We meet at his house. And it's probably about the average meeting. We'll have about eight members. Guys from the RPM Club would be Bill Reed and Chad Truss and Bob Madrich and then Hugh Height.
01:13:53
Torben Rothgeb
is still there. And then there's other builders who build mostly armor and other stuff. So so anyway, so after a while though, I became quite dissatisfied with MCCM for a variety of reasons. ah And then I found out that RPM had started and they were meeting at National Hobby up in Murr Lake. I was at Central Avenue.
01:14:20
Torben Rothgeb
yeah and Went in there and that's where I first met Madrich and a bunch of the other guys, Mark Akey. And I liked it because it was race cars. And you know that's my big thing is race cars. I do other stuff for sure. ah But the thing I liked about it is is because they had a specific interest area that MCCM didn't share.
01:14:51
Torben Rothgeb
MCCM guys would come which was perfect for me. Uh-huh. Yeah um and Yeah, so I liked our view and eventually it's become all car automotive subjects. Yeah, not just race cars Yeah, and there was a little controversy about that a few points, but most everybody's accepted that at this point Yes, a few people got irritated at at that and then you know, but I Most people have since come back. It's a strong club. I've been lucky enough to be the president of that one for this year and this upcoming year. um And that's ah just a great club with a lot of really good builders, really nice people. um Yeah, some so sometimes a club will build up a critical mass that you know makes it sustaining and you know and quality.
01:15:47
Torben Rothgeb
Yeah. Because that's the whole thing. i I don't want to see crappy building. Yeah. Well, and, you know, for me, I feel like, um you know, whatever's bringing you joy. And so, um you know, if, ah you know, The important thing is that you know you're escaping from life's everyday problems. And yeah I think pretty much everybody in the hobby has a passion for cars. So you're expressing your passion for automobiles. And you know some people do it better than others. Some people aspire to ah get better with each build and and then other people
01:16:27
Torben Rothgeb
Um, you know, it's kind of probably like a jigsaw puzzle and that you're just putting it together and, uh, you know, but, uh, the hobby is big enough for, you know, I think everybody.
01:16:38
Torben Rothgeb
And I would say, ah you know, whether it's some of those guys that are hoarders and never build and have thousands and thousands of scatters, it's like, yeah but you know, and Bob and I have had these conversations like, but hey, they are keeping these things, they're taking care of these things for the builders who later on, you can't find them anywhere else, but but some of these guys with these humongous collections. Yeah, you can always get them out of the estate sale. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. yeah so Well generally we end our show with our Super Six and you know over the shows we've done albums and cars and movies and things like that. Yeah I figured since we have you on talking about the the history of the hobby um I would do the six
01:17:28
Torben Rothgeb
ah your six favorite ah cars or kits, if you run out of cars, um from all the contests that you've gone to over the years, whether it's GSL or NNEL Nationals, or you've gone to a few of the NNEL East or, yeah you know, NNEL Milwaukee, just anything. ah Cars that over the years have just really stood out to you as just being very memorable. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, my my top The first one that comes to my mind is was built by Doug White. Okay, who he does the hu monouse model model ah excuse me Model car muse yeah on YouTube. Yeah, which is a very high quality is it' spot It's one of the few model car videos all watch. Yes. He is a profession So he built a 53 Studebaker that was proportion of very much like a C4 Corvette
01:18:26
Torben Rothgeb
OK. And an early style hammy in it, flip nose. And the thing was just so beautifully conceived and built. And I thought just extraordinary ah concept and styling. It's one of my favorite models I have ever seen. Great, great. Yeah, loved it. Another one. And actually, it's a couple.
01:18:55
Torben Rothgeb
ah I know a guy by the name of Steve Perry who lives outside of Detroit. Not the lead singer of Caring. No. He probably gets tired of hearing those jokes, are they? Yeah. Yeah. He gets very proud of that. It's like the Michael Bolton guy in office space. Right. Yeah. yeah ah Anyway, he built a beautiful replica of the freight train twin engine gas dragster. Okay.
01:19:22
Torben Rothgeb
and He actually had it at the IPMS National in Madison. if I don't know if you went to that. I was there. Yeah. Yeah. yeah And then he also built a Willis Gasser several years ago, F Troop Gasser, and several other models. Anyway, he's just an exquisite builder, ah very accurate, very detailed, scratch built. He's retired now, but he was an engineer.
01:19:53
Torben Rothgeb
And he approached every model as an engineering project, from concept to finish to promotion, you from beginning to end. And I met him at Salt Lake, and he would even figure out, well, what's the best way to show the model off to everybody so that they know what features are in it? And he wasn't doing this in an um obnoxious way. ahha It was more like, I want to make sure everybody knows about this, so how do I do that? OK, well, so just drag my car mark over and show him, you know, and just straight straight up to show him. And but anyway, his models are just amongst my favorite. And yeah, I just love his stuff. um And I mean, I've seen a lot of great models over the years and like at the final Salt Lake last year, hello the thing that
01:20:53
Torben Rothgeb
guys ended up saying was, I don't know how you pick, cause there's a hundred best of show winners at this show. There are so many that were so beautifully done. And yeah, so it's hard to pick amongst them. So I say I've got a couple of favorites there and oddly enough, I've seen some people who've done a build that isn't like heart of this world, but it sticks with you and you like it. Yeah. So one of the, like the sub kit.
01:21:22
Torben Rothgeb
One of them is Cameron. He built the Tamiya Porsche 935-78, which is one of my all-time favorite cars. It's it's a white, that's a Group Porsche, martini markings on it. And he just did such a beautiful job with the perfect paint on it. And even the kit comes with a driver figure with a helmet and even you know, polished paint on the helmet with all the markings
Notable Builders and Achievements
01:21:53
Torben Rothgeb
on it. nice The model was just so, it was out of the box, but it was done so perfectly. yeah You know, that's a model that sticks in my head. And our own Bob Manderich, he built a monogram Lincoln Continental years ago. ah And I got to judge it at one of our, I think it was our Nordicon.
01:22:17
Torben Rothgeb
and the more I looked at it, the more I saw he had put a lot of really nice touches in it. It was out of the box, but it was just so nicely done. It's a model that sticks with me. Yeah, yeah. Now Bob, is ah he's an underrated builder, he really, yeah and I appreciate the fact that as a person, we talked about having all these style projects, but Bob is just really focused and he gets his things done. Well, I I would teae used to tease him once in a while, because he might get a kit that's a little bit more difficult to assemble, and he'd throw up his hands, and and I'd tease him a little bit. In a good nature way, I said, oh, Bob, you're a Tamiya assembler.
01:22:58
Torben Rothgeb
things And how did he take that? Oh, you can he He's so good natured about everything. ah But what amazes me about Bob is just his interests are all over. I sort of call him the dabbler.
01:23:14
Torben Rothgeb
Yeah, no, it's a car. It's a truck. It's different scales. It's 43rd is 24th. It's an airplane. It's armored car, you know, uh, you know, motorcycle. He just dabbles with all that stuff and ah it's all stuff that interests him, which is great. Yeah. No, I couldn't do that. I think there are times I think I need blinders, but to me, it's all almost all 24th, 25th scale cars.
01:23:43
Torben Rothgeb
Yes. no And if there's ever ah an award that somebody has won, and he was the most deserving. It was Bob when he got the ambassador of the hobby award. I think it was at the Hope It Doesn't Snow show. um um But you know you talk about a person that brings so many people together. And it's so good for the hobby. It certainly is Bob. And oh yeah I really enjoyed doing this podcast with him. um But he's really great for that. to And he he is ah you know he has he's so versatile that it really is great for the the podcast when um because he can he has some background on just about everything. I want them to add one more to the list of models. That was ah Tim Boyd's Track Roadster, which is on the cover of an early issue of Scale Auto. Tell me about that one. It's a 2027T Track Roadster.
01:24:37
Torben Rothgeb
And he built it for the last MPC contest. And I think he placed he playd pretty high with it nationally, third or fourth. And it was basically a little T bucket with a track nose on it. okay And then ah he just had perfectly sized, big and little tires on it. And they used the engine out of the AMT Capri as a V6. And he used the headers off of the AMT Trophy Series T kit.
01:25:07
Torben Rothgeb
And he cut a couple of head tubes off of it so it fit the V6 just right. It was painted black with some candy-colored flames on it. And it was just so exquisitely done. Tim was not a good stylist or somebody who could restyle cars. But when he made a replica, and this was a semi-replica, he could do amazing work.
01:25:36
Torben Rothgeb
yeah It's like Mark Gustafson. When he did things that were more of a copy or closer to a copy of something, he could do amazing work. But when he re-styled things himself, it got to be kind of grotesque. He had no sense of styling. So like the color combinations? or No, the styling. Like a custom car and it just it just goes awry.
01:26:01
Torben Rothgeb
He was doing one with a Riviera where he made the entire side a big opening door. I was like, Mark, what the hell? Tim was trying to do a touring car one time. ah I forgot, it was based on a 40 Ford. And it just ended up being kind of square and chunky. Chuck Helpe called it his army staff car. And so, yeah, so Tim and Mark were both the same way in that They were very good builders.
01:26:34
Torben Rothgeb
ah But when they got to re-styling and styling, they doing their own stuff they couldn't do a very good job. Well, I know my favorite Tim Boy stuff has always been the muscle cars. And my favorite articles were but those, too. All right, now you mentioned that you had some not maybe a non-car thing. Yeah.
01:26:59
Torben Rothgeb
Is there, so is there something in mind that someone was out of the car category? Yeah. One in one in particular. ah I went to IPMS national in San Diego in 89. Okay. And the guy who won the national best to show people's choice, everything has scratch built is I think it was one 32nd scale.
01:27:28
Torben Rothgeb
Ilya Murometz, which was a World War I Russian bomber. Okay. So imagine World War I, it's all stick and tissue type airplanes, know wooden canvas with struts everywhere. Well, this was a two wings, four engines. You know, it could carry six, eight people. You know, it was the kind of bomb, you know, takeoff speed was probably 40 miles an hour.
01:27:58
Torben Rothgeb
Uh-huh. Stall speed was probably 40, you know, It was a big lumbering thing. But anyway, it is huge. This guy had scratch built it and it was just, it was so intricate and it was so beautifully done. I mean, he just walked away with the entire show. So a few years later, after I got married, we were in DC. We went to air and space museum and I'm walking down the aisle.
01:28:29
Torben Rothgeb
And there's that model that's in a display case at Air and Space. Nice. Yeah, it was that good. You know, permanent display there. Yeah. So yeah, no, that model is just amazing. Awesome. Awesome. Yeah. Well, Andy, I want to thank you so much for allowing us to relive some of the, uh, the glory days of a model building.
Reflections and Nostalgia
01:28:54
Torben Rothgeb
It's funny, you know, people talk about the golden era, but I feel like I'm lucky enough to be living in the golden era now, but, uh, you know, yeah and there's nothing like the present.
01:29:05
Torben Rothgeb
Yeah, I mean, anything you can think of it, you can, you know, with all the stuff out there. ah yeah You know, however, there are two sides to everything. And just like, it's nice to scroll through ah eBay every day and see different things or search for different things. um But at the same time, it it must have been truly amazing coming upon a show like the NFL Nationals back in the 80s and just being able to, you know, just have that money burning a hole in your pocket.
01:29:35
Torben Rothgeb
And if you had a holy grail that you were looking for, yeah just thinking about the possibilities. The the first decent size swap meat I ever went to was actually in Dearborn, Michigan. And that was probably in 79. It was just after I'd been to Omaha. So I went to as one of Herb Jackson's swap meats. And going through the place, I was just like, ah. And there were kits I never knew were made.
01:30:05
Torben Rothgeb
And of course, one was the Heller Porsche 917. 917 is one of my favorite Porsches ever. And there's one. There's a kit of it. Oh my God. I almost pulled a muscle of grab and reaching for my wallet. And then my dad at that time had a 1965 Imperial convertible. Wow. So I found a kit of that there.
01:30:31
Torben Rothgeb
Yeah, some other stuff. and it was just it was It was fantastic. Yeah, and seeing that stuff in person is just yeah so much fun. Well, ah thanks again. You're welcome. It's been awesome talking about all the the good times. And thank you to all the Tiny Car Podcast listeners. Without all these millions of fans, we couldn't do the show. So thank you for your support. Millions. That might be an exaggeration.