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#2 My Friend the Pastor's Kid - Malia Shimabukuro
26 Plays9 months ago
Keegan and Malia talk about Evangelical excellence, being judgemental, and dodgeball.
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Transcript
A Unique Faith Journey
00:00:01
Keegan Drummond
Okay, so I think one of the things that's kind of interesting is that you and I um are part of this. I mean, you you go back the furthest of anyone, I think, amongst our our friend group and your involvement.
00:00:17
Keegan Drummond
in the youth ministry and just this sort of ardent faith and service to, um, the church and our youth group, whatever.
00:00:34
Keegan Drummond
um And I think what's kind of interesting is that you're one of the few people from that sort of original crew that has sort of stayed steadfast in their their faith and in their involvement in the sort of evangelical church scene.
00:00:55
Keegan Drummond
um And, you know, and when I was kind of planning these, these podcasts, I i sort of thought like there were, I mean, there's, i think a majority of the people are probably not around anymore. Right. And they're not, um they're just doing their own thing, but I'm kind of curious, like what that journey looked like for you. Cause it's not like you're the same person we were when,
00:01:20
Keegan Drummond
you and I met in junior high ministry back in whatever, 2009 or whatever. um Why do you think it is though that you've kind of like stayed though, in a sense, like sort of in that subculture in that, you know, that of, of evangelicalism
00:01:44
Malia Shimabukuro
Yeah, I mean, I think you're right.
00:01:44
Keegan Drummond
or maybe you aren't, or I don't know, sorry, not to speak for yourself.
00:01:46
Malia Shimabukuro
Yeah, well, I think you're right in saying that I'm definitely not the same person that I was when I was, you know, in junior high, you know, like when we were throwing dodgeballs at each other and stuff like that. But ah i I guess I equate my walk with the Lord and like my walk through growing up in ministry, growing up in youth,
00:02:11
Malia Shimabukuro
like being very, very heavily involved in youth ministry and even just the bigger church. um I think the biggest thing that has kept me steadfast or like kept me present is obviously my relationship with Christ.
00:02:28
Malia Shimabukuro
So, um and for sure, my views, beliefs, my beliefs, are not cookie cutter type beliefs. I think that through growing up in the church and seeing how church was done at like the mega scale level, like once I left for college and i went to the mainland, like my worldview in a lot of ways did change or it, I think I i grew in different ways because all I knew was the church that I grew up in.
00:03:01
Malia Shimabukuro
And so, But I think what I held fast to was who I believed and who I still believe Jesus is, the the son of God and the relationship that I personally have with him um and the Godhead as as a whole.
Challenges in Church Culture
00:03:17
Malia Shimabukuro
So, but I wouldn't say that I, I don't know if I would say like growing up in the church that we did, i don't necessarily like after I,
00:03:32
Malia Shimabukuro
after moving to the mainland for about 10 years and being in whole different culture, ah i wouldn't say that like mega churches were my forte. Like I, i realized I don't enjoy um the big scale. I really, i like really learned. I had to relearn what does church really look like for me personally.
00:03:55
Malia Shimabukuro
um So I think my journey has definitely evolved in a lot of ways. And, I see, i see God's goodness totally like interwoven through it all.
00:04:10
Malia Shimabukuro
But yeah, i to answer the question again, it's just basically like Jesus kept me through it all. And I'm very thankful for that. And all ultimately too, I think having really solid people in my corner, like I can definitely say that like my parents and even my brothers, like just my family unit and then the friends that like I,
00:04:30
Malia Shimabukuro
have had throughout the entirety of my existence have been solid people.
00:04:35
Keegan Drummond
Thank you.
00:04:36
Malia Shimabukuro
And that matters a lot. Community matters like a lot.
00:04:41
Keegan Drummond
Yeah, because that's, I mean, when I was thinking about our time in ministry together, one of the first things I thought of was this time that ah you, me, and two other people were asked to preach at our junior high ministry at the ripe old age of 13 years old.
00:04:58
Malia Shimabukuro
oh my gosh. Yeah.
00:05:02
Keegan Drummond
And I remember... um um Me and one of the other people were, you know, I think he slept over at my house. We're staying up late. We're just playing video games. We're, you know, screwing around at the service. We're not taking it very seriously.
00:05:21
Keegan Drummond
And I remember you getting there early and sitting there and praying by yourself and then your dad um walking over and praying for you, just like coming over and putting his hand on you and just praying for you before you went and preached this ah sermon.
00:05:30
Malia Shimabukuro
Okay.
00:05:41
Keegan Drummond
And i don't know, that kind of stuck out to me at the time, you know? ah and And it just seemed like you had this sort of, ardent zeal for the lord that was very unique and i mean yeah it was just different than than everyone else like it seems like your faith was a bit more mature than everyone else um but yeah i mean
00:06:13
Keegan Drummond
And I guess that's what, so I want to kind of transition to, you know, you're, you're obviously a pastor's kid. Um, your father's a pastor in the church we grew up in and,
00:06:24
Keegan Drummond
I think now, I mean, you know, we're 15 years into the future. a lot of pastor's kids, we're actually going to have ah another pastor's kid on the show in a couple of weeks who's, you know, not considering themselves a Christian anymore.
00:06:38
Keegan Drummond
um Like, what do you think was different for you than so many other pastor's kids that... you knew when we were kind of growing up that don't really have that same sort of story.
00:06:56
Malia Shimabukuro
Yeah, that's a good question. um I mean, I can't speak for other pastors' kids because I'm not them. But from my own experience, I mean, even just hearing you share that story, like i to be honest, I didn't even remember that when you said that like my dad came over and prayed beforehand.
00:07:16
Malia Shimabukuro
I can totally like picture it now. But ah I think a big part of my experience growing up as a pastor's kid is um I don't know. It's special to me.
00:07:29
Malia Shimabukuro
I don't, there's parts of my story that like I've struggled with in being a pastor's kid for sure, being in the limelight, all that other stuff. But truly ah big part of my walk with the Lord was because I had two parents that like totally showed the love of Christ to each other first and foremost as husband and wife.
00:07:52
Malia Shimabukuro
And then to, um, my brothers and I as kids and they both as my dad, you know, being the pastor and then my mom being a pastor's wife and, and obviously our mom, like they were not perfect in every way, but truly did have such a genuine care for,
00:08:13
Malia Shimabukuro
um our souls, like our hearts, not just our like behavior. And um I recognized that at a pretty young age, especially because I saw a lot of pastors kids kind of go in a different direction.
00:08:27
Malia Shimabukuro
um And I was like, man, that's weird. But then you would start to like understand the dynamic, especially like now then living more and more into it. And I understand like how easy it is to just get so consumed by, you know,
00:08:43
Malia Shimabukuro
when I say being in the limelight, like just feeling like you have, like there's a pressure on you to perform, to be a Christian, even though like that's a decision, right? It's not just like, if you go to church, it's not just, okay, right away you're a Christian. It's like, it's a choice.
00:09:00
Malia Shimabukuro
And my parents communicated that from the get-go, like it's a choice. Like you're going to get to choose whether or not you want a lifestyle, um you know, dedicated to the Lord or not. And But I think because I saw the example of my parents, both of them, um that really encouraged me in a way that um I just truly was like, man, I want this Jesus because I've seen how real he is in my parents' lives and how genuine they were. And and they still are such genuine people that just like have such a heart for the Lord.
00:09:33
Malia Shimabukuro
So that's like really, i think a big part of like my journey is, again, it goes back to like the people, people influence people. And that can be in the positive and or in the negative.
00:09:44
Malia Shimabukuro
And um yeah, i I do believe that my parents were very present, even though like my dad was super duper busy in the church being, you know, kind of a front of house kind of pastor, like always, you know, up on stage and stuff. And he had long hours and um he still did his best. And my mom did such an amazing job too.
00:10:05
Malia Shimabukuro
support like our family structure when my dad was gone a lot or, but I knew that deep down he loved us so
Growing up as a Pastor's Kid
00:10:12
Malia Shimabukuro
much. And like, he, he tried to be as present as he could. So I think that was really important because I do, ah do know that from some other past years, kids experiences, a lot of times, like the struggle is but my dad wasn't there like at all.
00:10:24
Malia Shimabukuro
Like he cared so much about the other people. he didn't even care about us or that's how they felt. And obviously there's going to be moments of that, like as a kid, growing up as a teenager or whatever. Like I felt that a little bit, but like I knew the truth was that he loved me very dearly and he showed that um in a lot of different ways. So, yeah.
00:10:44
Keegan Drummond
Yeah, I mean, it's kind of interesting because like now I'm part of a tradition where at most, I mean, there's obviously some exceptions to this, ah of the pastors of the church are not...
00:10:57
Keegan Drummond
um married They obviously don't have children. And there are some reasons for that, historically.
00:11:08
Keegan Drummond
But I mean, i think there is sort of a practical reality around it too, like you're like youre shepherding...
00:11:13
Malia Shimabukuro
Sure.
00:11:15
Keegan Drummond
both the ah flock of your your parish, your church, whatever, but you're also um the head of this household, the sort of shepherd of this family. I mean, and obviously, i mean, like, I know your parents, they're great.
00:11:30
Keegan Drummond
Our parents know each other and are friends. But I mean, do you feel like... is there a tension that existed in you growing up and yeah i mean your dad especially being in such a large church too i mean ah the church we're going up in has thousands of people showing up every week one of the largest churches on a while who obviously the largest church at one point um like i mean do you feel the sense of like sharing your dad or like um
00:12:02
Malia Shimabukuro
Oh, yeah.
00:12:02
Keegan Drummond
seeing a perception of him even that's like different than what you're like did you ever like have this sort of tension I guess
00:12:13
Malia Shimabukuro
Yeah, I mean, the tension was, yeah yeah, you said sharing my dad, which I haven't really like thought about it that way. But yeah, for sure. Like, he, a lot of, i mean, that's like with any, like, work, right? Like, you're going to go spend time and energy at your workplace. Yeah.
00:12:30
Malia Shimabukuro
um but for him, like how he shared his work, he would, when he came home, he did a, I would say a pretty decent job of like leaving a lot of like church stuff, not, and not bringing it all, you know, like as kids, we, I wouldn't hear like the, oh, this happened here and this happened with that. Like they, they did a good job. Both my parents did a really good job of like being able to, i don't know, share, share the important stuff, but also protect us in certain ways, because there's a lot of stuff that happens in churches that you're like, if i were to hear that as young kid, I'd be like, what the, that's crazy. You know?
00:13:07
Malia Shimabukuro
So just like kind of understand the balance of all that. But yeah, the tension, I feel like, yeah, I, I think more than anything, the tension within me was more of like, I grew up,
00:13:25
Malia Shimabukuro
feeling like I had to be perfect, which is like so contrary to the gospel, right? Like, but the reality is when you're on a stage, and i I mean, I grew up on the stage in some in some capacity. And our church, like is performing arts kind of involving, right? And so you want to put your best foot forward. We always talked about like the heart of excellence and all great things.
00:13:50
Malia Shimabukuro
But when you focus on that so much and we don't really talk about the heart posture, it can get really tricky. And so the tension within me but with my, like my dad or, or like, just like growing up as a pastor's kid was more so like, man, I just, I didn't want to because our name, the Shima, or yeah, the Shima Bukuro name was like a name.
00:14:16
Keegan Drummond
Mm-hmm.
00:14:16
Malia Shimabukuro
I didn't want to shame that. I didn't want to bring shame on my dad by anything I chose to do. and so, It was like, oh I just tried to be perfect as perfect as I could.
00:14:27
Malia Shimabukuro
um And so that's the tension that I lived with for a lot of my growing up, which I think I'm still unraveling in a lot of ways because it's like that her is that perfectionist kind of like people-pleasing mentality of, yeah, like I want to be accepted.
From Performance to Genuine Faith
00:14:45
Malia Shimabukuro
um and a lot of what I felt growing up in the church was like, you're accepted because you're good at stuff. which again is a lie. And I know it's a lie, but growing up at a young age, experiencing what like the multiple things that, you know, I, I had, and I mean, we ah just being in church, like it it, it can be really detrimental if it's not cultivated or cared for or talked about.
00:15:12
Malia Shimabukuro
um And yeah, I think those are things that kind of the tension. But really, I think, again, my parents did a great job and I was never afraid to talk about it with them. And then that would allow for more conversation and and, you know, and they did a good job to, to help me at least process that.
00:15:29
Malia Shimabukuro
I also have two older brothers. So I got to see, i learned a lot through their mistakes or like just their experiences, I should say. um And it, I guess I feel like it helped me to like maybe make wiser decisions or like understand kind of the, the repercussions of our like actions or things that we chose to do. So.
00:15:53
Keegan Drummond
It seems like, I mean, you know, i don't i don't necessarily think it's coincidental that you like as you As you sort of look back on the past and that spirit of excellence, um limelight sort of Christianity that we grew up in, I think the more and more people I have on this show, the more people are going to be super antagonistic about that and very um hurt by it, very... um
00:16:27
Keegan Drummond
ah Like traumatized, I guess, by the situation of being part of this megachurch culture, evangelical, you know, early 2010s, late 2000s sort of purity performing excellent culture.
00:16:31
Malia Shimabukuro
Yeah.
00:16:46
Keegan Drummond
like I just noticed, even when you talk about it no now, it's it's very just charitable. and very like It seems like you're very like understanding of the situation, whereas I don't think a lot of us from that era really are.
00:17:02
Keegan Drummond
um I mean, do you think it's because you're close to it? Because, I mean, at the same time, there's so many pastor's kids that, I mean, you just like go on Abraham Piper's Instagram for 10 seconds and you just see someone who's just clearly very hurt by the wounds of growing up in a church.
00:17:12
Malia Shimabukuro
yeah
00:17:18
Malia Shimabukuro
Sure.
00:17:23
Keegan Drummond
Like, what what do you think has been sort of different for you?
00:17:23
Malia Shimabukuro
Mm-hmm.
00:17:28
Keegan Drummond
I mean, yeah, because there's people that we're close to and had very similar experiences to you. People that see who had a good relationship with your dad who, you know, and saw him as a father figure that may not necessarily feel the same way about the this sort of situation we were all in growing up in church.
00:17:50
Malia Shimabukuro
Yeah. ah Hurt. Yeah, the hurt of the church or like the things that like even my family has experienced or me personally, like it's all real. And definitely, i mean, haven't always, i think, viewed it in the way of like, oh, yeah, you know, I loved being hurt or the feelings like But I think to me, it's also either you choose to live in your hurt or you choose to grow out of it and you learn from it. And then you, for me, it's like, I, I look at so many people that I grew up with in ministry and, um, or just, yeah, people that I see across the board, like within, like just the church culture,
00:18:39
Malia Shimabukuro
And they're now no longer following the Lord. And it's it honestly is so sad because it's like, but that's not jesus that's not what Jesus wants for us. Like he wants just a loving relationship. And um i think a big part of my whole adventure, at least the 29 years that I've been on earth thus far, like i by the grace of God, I want to choose.
00:19:09
Malia Shimabukuro
to live a life that is not full of resentment and bitterness, but is what I would say the heart of like someone who wants to live in freedom and joy and, um and forgiveness too. And believe me, I'm not perfect in that by any means. Like I still, I can still talk poorly about the church.
00:19:33
Malia Shimabukuro
It's easy to in certain ways, so but at the end of the day, I'm like, how is that benefiting anyone? Like I've gone, Since being, I mean, like and go back and when I was living in the Midwest for those 10 years, i just recently moved back home to Hawaii, but like i but I would go back to the church occasionally and it would be hard for me.
00:19:53
Malia Shimabukuro
and And I realized like, oh, there's still like hurt there. There's still brokenness. Like I'm still like dealing with it.
00:19:59
Keegan Drummond
What do you think that is, though?
00:19:59
Malia Shimabukuro
And
00:20:00
Keegan Drummond
Is that like people? Is that memories? Is that like what is what's triggering that in you?
00:20:09
Malia Shimabukuro
Yeah, I think, yeah, I mean, I think from a relational standpoint, it's we as the church, at least from a biblical standpoint, it's like the church is so important. Like we, we are, and we should, regardless of a building, like we should be able to like, commune with each other. And, you know, like I talk about community being such a vital, important part of my life. And I think believers are just like in general, like just people, like it's good to be around people.
00:20:39
Malia Shimabukuro
So I think like ultimately because I am a relational being, we are made as relational beings. Like people for sure are ah a big part of, I think the hurt, um the way that, you know, people responded sir certain situations or um i think even,
00:20:57
Malia Shimabukuro
the the culture of the church at some time, at some point, you know, we talk about the performance or we talk about like feeling like, like the the purity culture. I mean, it's just like, it's all these things that is like, and the righteousness of God, like we want to be at the utmost and those are all great things. But again, it's like, if it's just a check mark, then it's not like, where's the heart posture again? Like, cause we're broken. And I think that's,
00:21:27
Malia Shimabukuro
I think a lot of people, at least what I experienced was people would show the face of like, oh, I'm great. And then behind the scenes, there was so much brokenness and so much darkness. And it's like, why not like just be vulnerable and truthful about like where you are. And I think that was really, that's a hard thing to do in general.
00:21:43
Malia Shimabukuro
and um i think that was something that I would get mad at certain people that I would see. And it's somewhat of me being judgmental, but I would like see certain things. I'm like, man, but you act so differently in a whole different scenario here.
00:21:53
Keegan Drummond
Mm-hmm.
00:21:55
Malia Shimabukuro
And so, And it's easy again to get judgmental judgmental of that or just judgmental of people. So I think I allowed my judgments of people to also kind of be a source of bitterness or like the the hurt.
00:22:11
Malia Shimabukuro
And I think you know this, or at least from growing up in the church, people are in your business. I mean, like, For instance, when you and Tao were dating, like, it's like everyone wants to know, like, what's going on? Like, are you guys being safe? Are you doing good things? Are you being righteous? Like, everyone's in your business.
00:22:28
Malia Shimabukuro
And so, like, that's not a bad thing to a certain degree, right? Like, you have to understand, like, how to, like, nurture people or how to, like, just be with people and not, like, a way that's going to be so, like, in your face.
00:22:44
Keegan Drummond
Do you remember?
00:22:45
Malia Shimabukuro
And that that was something that we just, like, learned.
00:22:46
Keegan Drummond
yeah i I just like came to mind when you brought up me and Taya was the time that you and your brother ah looked, or I think your brother looked me up on Find Friends or one of those types of apps.
00:23:00
Keegan Drummond
And you guys both drove to see where I was at. And I was in front of Taya's apartment complex and we were both in the car. And then you both got out and were like, so what's going on here?
00:23:14
Keegan Drummond
and ah Yeah, I guess.
00:23:17
Malia Shimabukuro
Yeah. Yeah.
00:23:18
Keegan Drummond
i mean like And obviously, i don't I don't feel any type of way about that. so like i mean Because we were all really, really, really close at that point. you know We're all like hanging out almost every day.
00:23:29
Keegan Drummond
and But yeah, I mean, I guess there is this sort of...
00:23:31
Malia Shimabukuro
yeah
00:23:32
Keegan Drummond
Even amongst us. I mean, okay.
00:23:35
Malia Shimabukuro
yeah
00:23:35
Keegan Drummond
I think that was a thing where... I think especially for you and i we were both, which is interesting because I was so sketchy, I feel like. But I feel like you and i were particularly like legalistic about things when we were growing up.
00:23:55
Keegan Drummond
And um ah like I don't know.
00:23:56
Malia Shimabukuro
Sure, yeah.
00:23:59
Keegan Drummond
And I definitely was not very charitable about things. And I feel like I kind of... maintains that quite a bit um and i don't know i mean it's just like i don't know if you you still feel that way too like when you're doing ministry or when you see a like high school kid that's like clearly you know not not living their life for the lord in the best way possible um
00:24:29
Malia Shimabukuro
Yeah. No, I think college really shaped my viewpoints on that too. Like, I mean, because I grew up in such a circle, like a very, or I should say bubble of like the Christian, like walk and how we should be righteous and all these things.
00:24:45
Malia Shimabukuro
But like when I went to college and then I just recognizing, cause like going to, ah you know, liberal or not like ah was a liberal arts college. It was like basically people from all over the place, like who experiences and walks of life looked all different.
00:24:58
Malia Shimabukuro
And I just realized like, man, we are all different. And yet we all, i think are seeking for a lot of the same things. Um, but I think that helped me.
00:25:09
Malia Shimabukuro
i mean, I'm still, by God, I mean, God knows, like I'm still a judgmental human being, but I do think that through experience of seeing and walking with people through like hard stuff, including even myself, um, it kind of helps give more empathy and more like, uh,
00:25:27
Malia Shimabukuro
just a covering of grace and a covering of like, yeah, we're, we're, we're not perfect. We, we are human. God created us as human. And I guess that's why we are in need of a savior too, because he's like, you can't do it on your own. And,
00:25:43
Malia Shimabukuro
I think that's like the struggle in some ways is like, I think in some ways, and this is on me, like I take accountability for it, but it's like somehow in me and my thought process was like, I need to make sure that I'm doing everything exactly like that legalistic kind
College Life and Personal Growth
00:25:58
Malia Shimabukuro
of mindset.
00:25:58
Malia Shimabukuro
I need to make sure I'm doing it all right. I'm reading my Bible. I'm telling people about Jesus. I'm doing all these things. And then like, I don't know, I guess, and I think it was a gradual process. Like it's just a change in heart and just, but it's like,
00:26:13
Malia Shimabukuro
feel like God continued to show up in ways I'm like, wow, I didn't deserve that. And then he like was still so good or, and, and so anyway, my my evangelical mindset has definitely changed. Like I'm not knocking on people's doors or making sure I'm telling every friend about Jesus. I think it's just natural. It just comes out when it comes out.
00:26:32
Malia Shimabukuro
I'll go to bars with my friends, drinking beer, drinking, whatever. And literally like somehow Jesus comes up in conversation, usually in a negative way. And then I'm just like, yo, what do you think about that? Actually? Like, And I think through relationships, you actually see like, I don't know, that that's like my biggest, I think one of my biggest takeaways from like just growing growing up is like being relational really matters and like actually caring for people in a way that's not just like, here's my agenda to do with you, but like, I just want to walk with you through life. What does that look like? You probably have a different view than I do.
00:27:06
Malia Shimabukuro
And just being able to talk through that, I think it's really cool. I love that. And I think that's a cool part of like this journey.
00:27:13
Keegan Drummond
I think, yeah, I think what's sort of unique is, I mean, the idea of this podcast kind of came about where Kama and I were texting and were sort of reminiscing about the fact that, you know, there was probably, you know, two to three dozen people ah in our church that were sort of just everything was kind of interconnected. Our lives were just super interconnected in such a way where going to church and church things and social activities around church people became kind of the main thing.
00:27:58
Keegan Drummond
And, you know, like we were like every single day it was we were doing something together.
00:27:58
Malia Shimabukuro
Mm-hmm.
00:28:03
Keegan Drummond
Like, i mean, even for me personally, I sort of stepped away from my school friends and hung out with my church friends more or, um you know, we're going to programming meetings every, you know, whatever Tuesday and then worship practice and then.
00:28:18
Keegan Drummond
um all these different things. And, you know, i think the interesting, unique thing is that like for, you know, a solid six years, you, me, Taya and a bunch of other people were sort of in that life.
00:28:35
Keegan Drummond
And then you kind of just cut out at when you go to college. And, and I think you went maybe a year before you graduated like a year before us too, or something.
00:28:47
Keegan Drummond
So it was sort of just like,
00:28:47
Malia Shimabukuro
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
00:28:50
Keegan Drummond
There you went. I mean, do you think that plays a factor too where, and was that intentional? Like that was something we always wondered. Was that like you were kind of over it?
00:29:00
Malia Shimabukuro
Mm-hmm.
00:29:02
Keegan Drummond
You were like trying to escape or you were trying to like, I don't know.
00:29:07
Malia Shimabukuro
Yeah, I know. That's good. I think, so i'm trying to think back to, yes. So I, I mean, we're the same age, but I graduated a year early because, you know, homeschool can do that for you.
00:29:18
Malia Shimabukuro
And when I graduated high school, and I think this is like, this was the internal dialogue within me because so many, including my brother, both of my brothers brothers went to Bible college.
00:29:32
Malia Shimabukuro
um A lot of our friends went to Bible college. And in the back of my head, I'm thinking, well, that's just the easy thing to do. Go to Bible college. And then there was something hanging in me that was like, the lie, like, what's the point of that?
00:29:46
Malia Shimabukuro
You know? And I saw, i had already seen a lot of our friends go to Bible college and then like their lives kind of went in this like kind of weird different space. And I'm like, that's just kind of strange. And then my brothers were in Bible college at that time too.
00:30:00
Malia Shimabukuro
And I had seen like kind of the stickiness of that. And so a part of me, I think was like, Yeah, I don't think I want to do that. And I think too, there was, and again, this might've been just a pressure I put on myself, but it's like, my dad's a pastor.
00:30:15
Malia Shimabukuro
And people would say often, because like, you know, I was involved in a lot of ministry. We were ministry leaders, like, oh, Malia, you're going to go to Bible college, right? Like that was kind of like the thought, like that was going to happen or like the expectation, maybe I should say.
00:30:29
Malia Shimabukuro
um And I was like, no. So i i I like struggled with that. I did go to, i think I audited one class while I was going to a community college, like my first semester. And I really enjoyed that class.
00:30:41
Malia Shimabukuro
But I also was like, I felt this draw to, or this pull to be in a space that was different than how I grew up. And so when I started my journey,
00:30:53
Malia Shimabukuro
to so I went to school in Nebraska and I got a scholarship to play hockey I was like man this could be like whole different opportunity in ministry field like in my mind I really did think of it as an opportunity to like for God to use me in that um and I didn't I had no idea what that all meant I just was excited about it and I wanted to experience something outside of Hawaii and So that's what I did.
00:31:19
Malia Shimabukuro
And truthfully, i and i I feel like we've talked about this, like or at least I know I've talked about it with Taya and some other friends. It's like, I think leaving the island and even the comfortability of the church that I grew up in was so healthy for me um because it really did shape and help me recognize what I truly believe.
00:31:44
Malia Shimabukuro
um Because I didn't have as much as again, the community is super important. I didn't have the comfortability of all those friends or all the people in my lives that I've known since a a little kid, say like, or just feel so comfortable with all of that. Like I, i wanted to experience something different.
00:32:01
Malia Shimabukuro
And being an athlete, mean, like being in athletics was a, oh my goodness, like such a, such a cool experience, but like super eyeopening. um for me personally, and just like the realm of like what it means to compete and like where people's identities were and, um and then just being in college, it was a whole and nother thing. But yeah, anyway, I think all that to say, like, I i do believe that the experience that I had leaving Hawaii and leaving even the church that I grew up in. Cause then I had to go figure out like, do I want to go to a church? And I was like, yeah, I do want to go. Like, I do want to experience a new community.
00:32:39
Malia Shimabukuro
And so finding that in college, I mean, was super fun. but And I, you know, some of the friends that i went to that first church with in college, like are some of my best friends still to this day.
00:32:52
Malia Shimabukuro
um but And that was kind of crazy because growing up in the church that we did mega church, more topical, more like here's your one, two, three, feel good about Jesus.
Evolving Church Perspectives
00:33:02
Malia Shimabukuro
Go do these things to change your life. Whereas the church that i first experienced in the Midwest was ah small church. It didn't have like the big light show and, you know, all the things, the elements.
00:33:15
Malia Shimabukuro
It just had a guitar and a voice. And then a pastor came up and spoke, literally opened the Bible and like expository spoke. like And like that like totally changed like how, um again, not to say that,
00:33:31
Malia Shimabukuro
my life before that experience was not real or like my faith wasn't real, but I really like after experiencing just church in a different way, it totally like helped me grow more and more in my faith and just in my walk with the Lord as well as just in general in life. So, um, that was super healthy for me.
00:33:54
Malia Shimabukuro
And, I don't know. There's obviously lots to say about all of that and like all the experiences that have gone on after that. But I did think that that was a big part of.
00:34:06
Malia Shimabukuro
um Yeah, at least for me and my experience of growing up, getting outside of the church, outside of the church that we grew up, not outside of the church.
00:34:13
Keegan Drummond
the
00:34:16
Keegan Drummond
Yeah, it's almost like, i mean, I don't know. and It comes off kind of, you know, if I were to talk about, you know, evangelical church, it comes off sort of condescending in a way where I feel that...
00:34:32
Keegan Drummond
yeah i mean I didn't leave the island until was 23, and I kind of have a similar experience um going to grad school and experiencing all these different churches where I'm trying to figure out what I'm doing, whatever.
00:34:45
Malia Shimabukuro
Mm-hmm.
00:34:47
Keegan Drummond
um but you know I think COVID happened immediately after after ah my first semester of grad school. And I'm sort of just looking at live streams and pictures and, ah you know, the years go on afterward and, you know, um the evidence of this church just becomes sort of like ah going through Instagram and looking on Facebook and just seeing pictures, whatever, and videos.
00:35:14
Keegan Drummond
And I'm almost like, oh, you guys are still doing this? I don't know. Like, I don't know. it's and that sounds messed up and really prideful and condescending.
00:35:25
Keegan Drummond
But I'm like, oh, this is like, like, it feels like, I don't know, like, nothing really changed. And, you know, I mean, i don't know.
00:35:33
Malia Shimabukuro
changed yeah
00:35:36
Keegan Drummond
that's That's pretty, I mean, that's pretty... lame and i don't know but like i even you know so like tay and i we went to we went to liberty uh to to drop my sisters off at school and we were you know it was first week they're you know decorating around their dorms and we we go in and we see all the like Bible verses on the, like on the walls and, you know, um girl playing acoustic guitar on worship songs, you know, and like, I don't know. And it was just like, oh my gosh, like this is still happening.
00:36:20
Keegan Drummond
Like in 2024 at the time, like this is still going on. This is crazy. Like you guys still do this. I don't know. And I don't know. like do you Do you feel like it's something you've like outgrown, or do you feel like you just come to it from from a different place now?
00:36:40
Keegan Drummond
I mean like i don't know. like what what do you like What do you feel when you like go back or like when you see everyone who's still around, I guess?
00:36:43
Malia Shimabukuro
yeah
00:36:52
Malia Shimabukuro
Yeah. It's funny you said it. I like said it the way of like, this is still happening this way. Like nothing's changed, which like, I mean, yeah.
00:36:57
Keegan Drummond
Yeah, I don't know.
00:37:03
Malia Shimabukuro
I ultimately, I think with time things do change, but it almost seems like sometimes the DNA or the culture of something like when it's like, so there it's like,
00:37:19
Malia Shimabukuro
wow, this is crazy. Like, it's like nothing has changed. um I think for me, I had, i I definitely had cringe moments. Like when I would see videos ah from like the church, like on social media and stuff like that, like, again, more from like now because I had been removed from that um because my mindset was like, man, but how are we actually doing life with people? Like, are we discipling people?
00:37:44
Malia Shimabukuro
are we checking in and caring for people in a way that's not like invasive and like, so how's your sex life? Are you doing stuff that you shouldn't be doing? Like that, not like that kind of stuff, but like more of like, man, like how's life?
00:37:51
Keegan Drummond
Right.
00:37:55
Malia Shimabukuro
Like what's going on with you? Like anything that I can be like, you know, like, so I feel like, I don't know the way that I like, the way that I've evangelized or just like,
00:38:08
Malia Shimabukuro
been a person of faith has just been so different. And I've been so much more cautious on how i share Jesus with people because I don't want to be legalistic. Like i don't want to be like, um yeah, make sure you go to church and make sure you don't swear and make sure you don't drink and make sure you don't have sex out of marriage, like all the rules. Like I steer away from that. And I just like want to ask people like if they love the Lord, if they understand who God is, like, because I think when you grow up in a church and it feels legalistic or it feels like you're having to follow every single rule, you see a God that's like kind of like on his throne, like looking down on you with his finger pointed instead of a gracious father. That's just like, I love you, you know?
00:38:51
Malia Shimabukuro
um And so i guess for me, I, yeah, I see certain things at, you know, the church that we grew up in.
00:39:03
Malia Shimabukuro
And I'm like, they're just trying their best. I believe like, I think in some ways they they're just doing what they they know.
00:39:10
Keegan Drummond
Yeah.
00:39:10
Malia Shimabukuro
and that's all they they do know. Or, you know, that's what's worked for them in the past.
00:39:13
Keegan Drummond
I just wish they knew better.
00:39:15
Malia Shimabukuro
yeah Yeah, I just wish they got outside a little bit more. Yeah. um Yeah. And again, I think that's where it's like, man, let's continue to read our Bibles. And let's continue to try to like,
00:39:29
Malia Shimabukuro
I don't know, be in prayer. And I think those are all, I think the Christian disciplines are really important. And it's just like truly goes back to when, when you come to like enjoy a relationship with someone, like for you, like with Taya, it's like, you want to spend time with her. You want to get to know her. You want to you know, do everything with her.
00:39:50
Malia Shimabukuro
That is what I, I experienced. And I still want to experience God in that way where it's like every day I wake up, I see, Like I just got home to Hawaii and I'm like, I literally like wake up and there's mountains right out there. Like that's like, I don't know. just like, I see, i see God's goodness. I feel God's presence in that.
00:40:08
Malia Shimabukuro
And I want people like, I hate church when it's like, make sure you do all these things and you know, then you'll be okay. It's like, no, I just want people to like actually experience God's love and God's presence and God himself, which like truly happens every single day. We just don't actually like acknowledge it or like really know like he's there.
00:40:28
Malia Shimabukuro
oh So anyway, I think I went off on a tangent a little bit. I kind of started preaching. But oh yeah, I don't know. I think a big part of the whole experience with growing up, it's like, eat for me, I saw a lot of the legalistic things, and I felt it, and I was a part of it.
00:40:46
Malia Shimabukuro
And then because experienced and I graciously experienced like, life outside of the church, like where you know, being in college, like I did, I had relationships with people that like, man, their stories were unbelievable, like, and, and their struggles were so real. And just like, not trying to win them over by saying that they need to like say the salvation prayer, but just like literally being, being a person that just chose to be with them through their hurt and through their brokenness, that it then like resulted in like genuine,
00:41:25
Malia Shimabukuro
relation genuine conversations and then people would recognize like oh there's something like different about Malia when she talks or like so yeah anyway
00:41:36
Keegan Drummond
Yeah, I don't know. mean, that's the thing. like I feel that after leaving evangelicalism and becoming Catholic and then doing ministry in that context, it's like I feel that I still carried a lot of the sort of... Like, I did it like an evangelical.
00:41:59
Keegan Drummond
Like, I was trying to figure out how to...
00:42:00
Malia Shimabukuro
Right.
00:42:03
Keegan Drummond
get pizzas for the, you know, Bible study, or I was trying to figure out how like the music set or, you know, the perfect playlist or, I mean, those are like aesthetic things, but also, I mean, even the way like I talked about certain moral behavior, I was, you know, notoriously very hard on all the frat guys because I was just like, you guys are drinking.
00:42:11
Malia Shimabukuro
right
00:42:26
Keegan Drummond
That's bad. Like, or whatever, you know, like underage, it's no good. And I mean, I don't know.
00:42:33
Malia Shimabukuro
Amen. Amen.
00:42:33
Keegan Drummond
And it's like a part of me thinks like, yeah, it's not good. guys shouldn't do that. But like, um I don't know. I feel that I sort of carry this um way of thinking about morality about the way one ought to live their life in the Christian faith.
00:42:56
Keegan Drummond
And it kind of just like hasn't gone away. I mean, I've, my views have sort of radically changed and I've distanced myself so far from my past and evangelicalism, like as far as I could go um while still remaining Christian.
00:43:12
Keegan Drummond
And yet I just feel this sort of like tug on my like heart to, I don't know, like be really cringe and legalistic about everything still.
00:43:16
Malia Shimabukuro
Yeah.
00:43:26
Keegan Drummond
I don't know. and But it sounds like you don't necessarily have that same feeling Well, I mean, like, or maybe, like, do you do, like, what do you think you still, like, carry from that time?
00:43:40
Malia Shimabukuro
yeah
Judgment and Acceptance
00:43:43
Malia Shimabukuro
a
00:43:46
Malia Shimabukuro
I mean, i I definitely feel like I'm still legalistic in certain ways. I think it's hard not to be when when when you grow up with the experiences of just like being in a very structured, yeah, a structured place that's like, and all of those things, I think, I don't know, I see like both sides of it because like they're there, i think in a lot of ways for our good, but also when it's like too far, like when it just goes to,
00:43:51
Keegan Drummond
Right.
00:44:15
Malia Shimabukuro
the like the law right like we know that with the gospel like the old testament the laws like couldn't do it like jesus had to come and be the the one and final you know um so i think for me i guess the legalist or just like the things that i still carry don't know i'm ah to be honest i'm yeah i am very judgmental of people's i think in some ways like their behaviors i i find myself like questioning whether or not who people who say they're Christians are actually Christians, which like, then I'm like reminded, like, I have no idea whether that person knows the Lord or not, even though they say they do, like, I can't judge their heart, but it makes me cringe when they say certain things or do certain things.
00:44:48
Keegan Drummond
Yeah. yeah
00:45:04
Malia Shimabukuro
um But I guess part of that for me and my own experience, because I've dabbled in things that I thought I'd never dabble in, like the drinking and um like, I don't know, was just like in my head, I'm like, oh yeah, we're never supposed to drink.
00:45:19
Malia Shimabukuro
We're never supposed to swear. Like all those things, like they're legalistic things. And so like, because I say dabbled, like it's like a bad thing or something, but like, you know, just like doing something that was foreign to us as kids.
00:45:22
Keegan Drummond
Yeah. Yeah.
00:45:29
Keegan Drummond
yeah
00:45:32
Malia Shimabukuro
And yeah, I look at people that I guess my tension in some ways is like when I'm back at home being a Shima Bokuro, it's like, Oh yeah, make sure I don't swear. Make sure. i But like, truthfully, if you get to know me, if I say like shit or some swear word or something like, I don't know, like, does it, does that make me a bad person? No. Like it again, I think it comes back to like us as just like as individuals ah in our hearts.
00:46:01
Malia Shimabukuro
And so I think that's given me like a grace to, have with myself, honestly, like to be okay, that like, it's okay, Malia, like you're not a perfect individual.
00:46:12
Malia Shimabukuro
And it's given me a freedom. And then it's also allowed me to see people in that way too. Like, don't know, just random examples. Like when we were growing up, I just felt like people that smoked were like just the worst people ever, which is like so stupid. Cause I'm like, well, they're not the worst people ever.
00:46:28
Malia Shimabukuro
um and then like, you know, everyone smokes now, you know, like, I don't know. just think I think of my brothers who were just like, like everyone does things that, you know, it's like so interesting how life just takes us in like so many different directions, our beliefs and
00:46:42
Keegan Drummond
I remember, this is so random, but I remember we were all hanging out one time and we were going through a Jack in the Box drive-through and we saw one of the workers um like walking, not walking out of the store, but just walking around in the parking lot.
00:46:57
Keegan Drummond
And you're like, she's about to pull out a cigarette. And I was like, what? what do you How do you know that? like what And all of a sudden she pulls out a carton of cigarettes and I'm like, what how did you know and you're like she just had that look she just had that look on her i'm like how what what look like she's just jonesing for for a cigarette right now and you just know what that looks like i mean yeah i that i was just thinking about that for some reason i'm like how did malia know that that lady really wanted a cigarette her
00:47:12
Malia Shimabukuro
for
00:47:31
Malia Shimabukuro
just me being judgmental you know like judgment will come upon her she's gonna pull out those cigarettes no kidding i don't know i don't even know dude you have so many memories that i have no recollection of that's crazy
00:47:42
Keegan Drummond
there's Yeah, I mean, I don't know. i mean, I just think... That's the thing. it's like And that was the whole premise of this whole thing is that I i like have i feel like so far removed from it.
00:47:58
Keegan Drummond
um But I've had... I don't know. And this is this is like my own personal thing. I've had such a hard time developing relationships outside of our childhood.
00:48:12
Keegan Drummond
like i mean and and I call back home like almost every week. i mean When I started this thing and posted Kama's podcast, it was like, I don't know, like people are just reaching out to me.
00:48:27
Keegan Drummond
um like that The guests we're going have in a couple of weeks, we haven't seen each other in probably like... 15 years like it's it's just like but i i know in some way we're kind of just gonna pick up where we left off um but i don't know like i just noticed for me personally it's been just really hard to start over in the mainland and i've kind of put myself in different places like
00:48:43
Malia Shimabukuro
Sure. Yeah. yeah
00:48:58
Keegan Drummond
going to the gym or going to my church or whatever but like i don't know in some ways i feel kind of like stifled and i don't know if that's like just me or did you did you feel kind of but i don't know you left when way younger than i did i mean i was 23 and you were 17 or whatever
00:49:16
Malia Shimabukuro
yeah
00:49:17
Keegan Drummond
seventeen or whatever
00:49:20
Malia Shimabukuro
yeah I was 18 um yeah I don't know I think you I mean the relationships that I had in college like because I went to a small small like private school in Nebraska like they were it was fun it was super fun and I think then that just like allowed me like my personality is pretty outgoing so I think having friends was not having friends, but just making acquaintances to, or just like developing like friendships was pretty fun for me. And even when I moved ah to Kansas city and I was there just these last two years, um I know. felt like my community was pretty fun. Like it, again, and I think a part of that is just allowing for me, at least I was just like, I'm just trying to,
00:50:11
Malia Shimabukuro
Yeah. I just want to be as most as humanly possible as I can. Cause I know I'm in my head a lot, but like, I just want to be me. So like by being me, like I went and played pickleball quite a bit.
00:50:19
Keegan Drummond
Mm-hmm.
00:50:24
Malia Shimabukuro
And so like, I've developed a pretty huge pickleball community um and things that I enjoyed like being involved in church and, but it is strange coming back home, which I'm, it's so new.
00:50:37
Malia Shimabukuro
so that honestly, I felt like it was a lot easier to be Malia outside of Hawaii because Malia in Hawaii, and again, pressure of myself and pressure of my family, of my name, of the family's name was like the shame of your, your pastor Rod's daughter, you know? And so I think that like really,
00:51:00
Malia Shimabukuro
that has affected me more than anything. Like being outside, being in the mainland, like I got to be in a way, whoever I wanted to be, or like people didn't know who I was.
00:51:09
Keegan Drummond
Yeah.
00:51:09
Malia Shimabukuro
And so that kind of gave me a sense of freedom. um Coming back home, it's like, I'm fighting that tension of who am I? I know who I am. I'm Lulia Shimabukuro, but um yeah, understanding and and giving myself grace on just like,
00:51:27
Malia Shimabukuro
Cause my tendency to be a people pleaser, to be the performer, the perfectionist so is evident. It's real. But like, yeah, learning to grow just to be like, I can come home and I can be Malia, child of God. Like that's the main core identity that I want to, to really live in.
Identity and Community Changes
00:51:46
Malia Shimabukuro
But yeah, I think it was not as hard for me, I guess, to make friends outside of the church. after my college experience or like just that whole college experience.
00:51:56
Keegan Drummond
Yeah.
00:51:56
Malia Shimabukuro
Cause it really like opened my eyes to see like the world, not just the, the church bubble that I grew up in. And those were pretty like instrumental years. Those like three to four years being actually, sorry, two, it was two and a half years of being at the school in Nebraska as a student, but yeah.
00:52:20
Keegan Drummond
Yeah, I mean, it sounds like when you sort of step away, and I'm sure a lot of people have this experience of like going away from their home church that they grow up in their their whole life, and the sort of aesthetics of that experience, of like what it what it looks like, what my prayer life looks like, what my...
00:52:47
Keegan Drummond
how I even talk about God to others and myself, like what I think about God.
00:52:51
Malia Shimabukuro
Yeah.
00:52:54
Malia Shimabukuro
Yeah.
00:52:56
Keegan Drummond
It's sort of like... has to change in some way what do you think is the biggest change in in what the sort of like religion you had um growing up and and by religion i guess i mean like i don't know there's probably a bunch of evangelicals going like it's a relationship it's like Obviously, but that's a, it's, it's a religion.
00:53:20
Malia Shimabukuro
yeah yeah
00:53:21
Keegan Drummond
It's also like this thing that you do that you have to practice and whatever, like what sort of like religious qualities do you think are are like, yeah, what do you, what are you like trying to depart from, I guess, in some sense?
00:53:22
Malia Shimabukuro
Yeah, for sure.
00:53:39
Malia Shimabukuro
Yeah. um And I feel like I've noted it a couple of times, but for me, i cared so much. I still do. I care what people think about me.
00:53:51
Malia Shimabukuro
And it's self-deprecating, honestly. Like it's, it's very yeah selfish in a lot of ways, which when I realized that I was like, man, that's crazy. Cause like, I think I'm just caring for people, but I'm actually like thinking too highly of myself or too lowly of myself.
00:54:08
Malia Shimabukuro
um And I, I think that was kind of innate with how, um what it looked like to be on stage. And, and so that's a big piece that like, I'm not even kidding you. I,
00:54:21
Malia Shimabukuro
more within the last few years, I've realized how much performance anxiety I have. Even doing this podcast, like freaks me out. Like I get nervous and giddy or not giddy.
00:54:28
Keegan Drummond
Like in what way? Like like just talking to people or like what does that look like?
00:54:33
Malia Shimabukuro
Um, just like fear. It's like fearful of like what, what people think of like my experience, like just, you know, what's going on in even my life.
00:54:42
Keegan Drummond
Yeah.
00:54:43
Malia Shimabukuro
Like it's, it's very self, um, yeah. Self inflicting, I guess. Um, But I think, so like with that said, i've I'm learning just the graciousness of God truly. Like
00:54:59
Malia Shimabukuro
i I know that God has like totally been my like provider and like has extended his goodness far beyond like anything that I can even comprehend.
00:55:14
Malia Shimabukuro
And like just resting in that, like resting in his presence alone has brought so much
00:55:22
Malia Shimabukuro
like freedom. And it's like a process of freedom to my to my heart and to my life. And i think that's a, it's a daily choice though, to like choose to live with God within his presence. And so, um yeah, I guess for me, it's like, I'm trying to get away from which again, I think I self-inflicted a lot of it but I, part of it is just like the,
00:55:48
Malia Shimabukuro
i would say it's the environment that we grew up in. Um, but I cared deep. I cared very deeply about like, um, yeah, just performing and like, I wanted, I've always wanted to be very authentic and very genuine.
00:56:05
Malia Shimabukuro
But there's also this like facade that I feel like I have to continue to portray and and and be like good, you know. And so um getting away from that and just being Malia without the PK title or even just the church title and just being who I am, who God created me to be, who I'm learning, like who that is, um has been, I think, the biggest thing. Because that's,
00:56:35
Malia Shimabukuro
for me the personal i mean like yeah you said it like in a way for sure religion um i agree with that like yeah we are in the like catholicism religion christianity or like any type of religion but it for me again it it does really go back to like just like wanting to be in communion with my creator and also be in communion with the people, the community around me, the people I got has placed on this earth.
00:57:07
Malia Shimabukuro
So.
00:57:09
Keegan Drummond
Do you think there's anything that you're you want to take with you still from that time?
00:57:24
Malia Shimabukuro
Yeah. ah I mean, I think this is a positive and a negative thing, but I'm going to spin it on like the, definitely the positive side. Like being involved in church is really good.
00:57:37
Malia Shimabukuro
i do. i do think that there's such an importance. I think you can get on this side of like, Oh yeah, I love Jesus, but I don't go to church. And like, I totally respect people wherever their journeys are in life.
00:57:50
Malia Shimabukuro
But I, there is a, but to that. Like, I do think that God created us to be in like, like I don't know, like in ah in a community of believers. And so like, what does church look like? It could look really different for a lot of people. And that's like the the part of this whole experience that like, I love having conversations with people because there are a lot of people that we grew up in the church with that, yeah, are not even following the Lord anymore. Say they're still Christians, but don't go to church anywhere or go to totally different churches, like all of that, right?
Passion for Ministry
00:58:20
Malia Shimabukuro
And I don't care what you do. I just want to, I mean, like at the end of the day, I i do think one thing that I've just been, very i'm like thankful for is that by being involved in youth ministry like that that gave so many skills and so many like i mean like that's where i found my passions like i literally found my passion to like help people like i like even in youth ministry i like think back of all the things that we did by setting up and breaking down like just being servants like
00:58:56
Malia Shimabukuro
And not to the point, like, i don't know, I've been watching this, the shiny people show on Amazon. Have you heard of that?
00:59:02
Keegan Drummond
Is that the Duggars?
00:59:04
Malia Shimabukuro
Oh, there's a season two that came out and I just watched the first episode with my mom. But anyway, it, it's not to the point because that specific, this teen mania thing is like, they basically like we're treating these like teenagers, like as like manual workers or like laborers and like spending 15 hours and like saying it's for the, you know,
00:59:23
Malia Shimabukuro
for God and for his kingdom and stuff, which just seems like brutal. But anyway, that's it. Not to go so far in that extreme, but basically like, I do think, I do believe that, you know, just giving generously of yourself and like serving people is, has been something that I i look back on and I'm just really grateful for. Like, I want to serve people well.
00:59:47
Malia Shimabukuro
And again, I think my dad and my mom both instilled that. Like i you know, my dad, like he just like, loves people so well. He like has given himself so generously to people. And so like, i just want to, I don't know. I want to continue to admit that whether that's like in checking in on people or, or yeah, if it's like, Oh, you need help moving something or you need a cup of coffee. Like I'll bring you a cup of coffee, like whatever it is, like just serving people being generous with your time.
01:00:18
Malia Shimabukuro
Yeah. i think that's, that's one thing that I like want to continue to hold on to. But not take it to the extreme, which I think can be like you're serving so much that you forget about like why you're serving.
01:00:29
Malia Shimabukuro
Because that's like where the negative piece comes into to play, which I feel like a lot of times that's what ended up happening with a lot of the people that we grew up with.
01:00:29
Keegan Drummond
eat.
01:00:36
Malia Shimabukuro
And even again, could be ah part of my detriment was like we just serve so much. And then it's like just a performance. We're just doing it to serve. And yeah, I don't want that to be the case. I want it to be like a healthy balance of serving because...
01:00:51
Malia Shimabukuro
it's a gifting that God's given us to use.
01:00:55
Keegan Drummond
Yeah, I mean, I don't know. Like, the serving thing, I have a weird relationship with it because there were so many things that I did in church that I didn't really want to do.
01:01:08
Keegan Drummond
Like, I don't know, like, playing on worship teams or, yeah, setting up chairs.
01:01:08
Malia Shimabukuro
you Sure.
01:01:15
Keegan Drummond
But, I mean, one, it was just sort of this... duty, I guess, the sense of duty and that, I don't know, i i kind of resented it. And then i feel like there were times where, you know, i would do, know, we got plugged in with like midweek services because of your dad, like who was sort of leading those and my parents were getting plugged in and they had me start volunteering at midweek services. And I was around all these adults who are serving.
01:01:46
Keegan Drummond
And i just remember how like impatient people were and how like the the spirit of excellence sort of drove people to just be like jerks about things.
01:02:00
Keegan Drummond
And i don't know.
01:02:01
Malia Shimabukuro
yeah
01:02:02
Keegan Drummond
It's like, I just feel like I don't, I mean,
01:02:07
Malia Shimabukuro
no I can definitely I can definitely feel like how that experience like totally makes it
01:02:09
Keegan Drummond
Yeah.
01:02:13
Malia Shimabukuro
And believe me, i've I've felt that too. And i I see, like, even just recently, I've seen how that kind of spirit just, like, destroys the whole meaning and purpose of, like, why we do what we do. you know, like, why are you serving? Like, hopefully it's not out of vain or, like, out of spite. Like, oh, i'm just doing the Lord's work. But, like, it's a heart of, like, an overflow of, like, i i I want to do this, which, like you said, wasn't always the case. like So, yeah.
01:02:42
Keegan Drummond
Yeah, or or it's like you're serving and like we all know that your life is falling apart outside of this thing. like I don't know.
01:02:51
Malia Shimabukuro
Yeah.
01:02:52
Keegan Drummond
was kind of... I felt like there was this sort of cognitive dissonance around serving where you could...
01:02:59
Malia Shimabukuro
Yeah. yeah
01:03:01
Keegan Drummond
i don't And I don't know if it was like serving became a type of... tool for mental gymnastics where I can be any sort of way in the world because I'm like whatever on a I don't know like for example a soundboard or setting up lights or holding a camera or driving a shuttle or whatever you know and I don't know and yeah and it was like so much too
01:03:33
Keegan Drummond
always think of I always thought of the bus drivers.
01:03:33
Malia Shimabukuro
Yeah. Yeah.
01:03:35
Keegan Drummond
They get there at 5 in the morning, and they're just like going back and forth all day long. I'm like, what? like I don't know. is there like Yeah, it just seems like a lot.
01:03:48
Keegan Drummond
like It just seemed like a full-time job at some point, which was just weird.
01:03:54
Malia Shimabukuro
yeah
01:03:54
Keegan Drummond
like The boundaries were just weird.
01:03:57
Malia Shimabukuro
Yeah, I agree. Boundaries definitely need to be established or like, and again, that looks maybe different for everyone or or it seems like some people are a lot more easy to kind of like, they're just willing to serve, which, yeah. Anyway, I think regardless, boundaries need to happen. And I think that was something that in some ways has been a struggle within the structure of church sometimes.
01:04:23
Malia Shimabukuro
But there's that kind of balance of, if your heart is there to just serve people, you're going to do so hopefully graciously, but also like we're human. So yeah, there's going to be those like people that are impatient or like, but yeah, I don't know.
01:04:42
Keegan Drummond
And I don't know, and it felt often like the labor was disconnected from everything.
01:04:42
Malia Shimabukuro
There's, there's always two sides.
Questioning Church Practices
01:04:49
Keegan Drummond
Like, I don't know. Like, it was hard for me to sort of see how... you know, whatever, setting up X amount of chairs or I mean, okay, chairs, maybe it's a bit more direct, but like, i don't know, there were just such like little things that had to get done that it was like,
01:05:12
Keegan Drummond
why are we doing this? Like, what is this accomplishing? And I guess you could sort of make some case for it. Like, I don't know, getting the gels on the the spotlight, right. Or setting up the fog machine or whatever. Like it was just kind of like, what is this accomplishing? It makes it look cool. And then half the time in youth ministry, it didn't, it looked just super sloppy or whatever, you know, but whatever. um But I don't know. It was just, it was a hard cause it just felt sort of futile at times um
01:05:47
Keegan Drummond
And I don't know.
01:05:47
Malia Shimabukuro
Mm-hmm.
01:05:47
Keegan Drummond
i mean you were you I mean, you were involved a lot in, like, programming or whatever. I mean, like, did you ever feel like it was just kind of... And I remember in youth ministry, like, there were times where we would put all this energy into, like, a service, and then it was basically just us there, you know, or whatever.
01:06:07
Keegan Drummond
Like, and I don't know. And obviously, you could be like, wow, that was really good for those, like, five people that showed up or whatever, but, like... I don't know. like Could we have put some energy into something else? I don't know.
01:06:19
Keegan Drummond
Something simpler, like where we weren't breaking our backs or whatever. I don't know.
01:06:27
Malia Shimabukuro
yeah wait did you ask me the question that if i felt that
01:06:31
Keegan Drummond
I don't know. It was more of thought. which thought
01:06:36
Malia Shimabukuro
i'm just like yeah just like thinking about all the different things that we did from start to finish it is a lot i actually haven't like thought deeply about that but i think for me like i enjoyed it like i just like loved working like i got it because Yeah, I guess I'm not normal in that way. Like I like I'm like, yeah, let's put chairs up. Like, let's let's serve. Like i would get mad at people that probably are like you are like, why are we doing this? This is dumb.
01:07:02
Malia Shimabukuro
Be like, come on, guys, we're doing it for Jesus. Duh. But.
01:07:06
Keegan Drummond
It's like, what does that mean though? I don't know. That was always the thing for me. It's like, why am I setting up this like coffee machine right now?
01:07:10
Malia Shimabukuro
Yeah, it's true. It's always said
01:07:13
Keegan Drummond
Or, you know, like whatever. I don't like, there are all these different little things that we'd all set up. And it's like, what is this for?
01:07:25
Keegan Drummond
Giant letters, a huge backdrop. I don't know. It's like, what?
01:07:30
Malia Shimabukuro
Yeah.
01:07:31
Keegan Drummond
Why? What are we accomplishing?
01:07:33
Malia Shimabukuro
Yeah.
01:07:36
Malia Shimabukuro
Yeah. No, it's great question.
01:07:37
Keegan Drummond
Why aren't these chairs just set up already?
01:07:38
Malia Shimabukuro
Okay.
01:07:46
Keegan Drummond
Now, I think we might have had some questions. One second. Let me pull them up.
01:07:55
Malia Shimabukuro
okay
01:07:58
Keegan Drummond
Just kidding. I guess, no, we did not have any questions. And it might have been, i didn't make it spicy enough, I guess. was Should I have put anything?
01:08:06
Malia Shimabukuro
It's okay.
01:08:06
Keegan Drummond
I put pastor's kid. Like, should I have put anything? Like, what should I call this episode? Is there anything I should call it
01:08:14
Malia Shimabukuro
No, I have no idea. You make it spicy. You have to do clickbait in order to like make people like.
01:08:20
Keegan Drummond
I know. i have to think of something. Okay, and the other thing is that you have to think of a worship song from back in the day. So, commas was Lord, I lift your name on high.
01:08:32
Malia Shimabukuro
Okay. So have to give you an answer right now because I'm going to have to think about this.
01:08:35
Keegan Drummond
i mean, you can think about it because the post will go up Monday.
01:08:37
Malia Shimabukuro
Like an old school one. Okay.
01:08:39
Keegan Drummond
ideally ideally like it could be from when you were growing up or when you were doing ministry first back in like you know 2007 all the way to now or whatever but could be anything okay well i think that's probably it then leah shannon any concluding thoughts any um
01:08:58
Malia Shimabukuro
I will think about it.
01:09:07
Malia Shimabukuro
a Hey, do you remember that one time? Did I hit you with a dodgeball like right in the nuts?
01:09:14
Keegan Drummond
I think so. No, it was a um ball of foil.
01:09:18
Malia Shimabukuro
Or is that someone else? Oh, it was a ball of foil. Yeah, you're right.
01:09:22
Keegan Drummond
wes like It was a thing.
01:09:23
Malia Shimabukuro
I was such a jerk.
01:09:23
Keegan Drummond
We were we were putting... we like i forget where all this foil came from, but it was like we kept putting on like layers and layers of foil into a ball.
01:09:38
Keegan Drummond
and it And it actually got pretty heavy. I don't know if we like wrapped it around something. And then, yeah, you did.
01:09:44
Malia Shimabukuro
Your memory is insane.
01:09:45
Keegan Drummond
You threw it at me. And I think your mom found out for some reason and got really upset about, which I found hilarious because it's like, I don't know.
01:09:47
Malia Shimabukuro
Yikes.
01:09:50
Malia Shimabukuro
She got mad at me.
01:09:54
Keegan Drummond
It was pretty funny when you did it.
01:09:54
Malia Shimabukuro
That's so crazy. Yeah, we could probably like talk for another hour about all the random like things that happened. Just like random memories. You have a way better memory than I do.
01:10:07
Keegan Drummond
Yeah, it's it's it's kind of hard. like i mean I mean, even when we were back in in Hawaii, Keala kept bringing up all these like things that were like oh my gosh do you remember when you did that or when whatever when we filmed the happy music video um do you remember that we did a music video for happy by pharrell williams yeah it was like because we were all graduating you might not have been in it i
01:10:28
Malia Shimabukuro
Pharrell?
Youth Group Experiences
01:10:36
Keegan Drummond
guess because you would have graduated already
01:10:36
Malia Shimabukuro
I don't think I was there.
01:10:38
Keegan Drummond
Oh my gosh.
01:10:38
Malia Shimabukuro
Yeah.
01:10:38
Keegan Drummond
It's like we were all talking about like the different dance moves we did. And it was like, dude, yours is so bad. And I'm like, oh my gosh. That's really, really cringe. But yeah, no, it's hard.
01:10:49
Malia Shimabukuro
Dude.
01:10:50
Keegan Drummond
Yeah. Just carrying all that with me, all that cringe. And I had a couple more years after you left to just keep gathering it on, I guess.
01:10:58
Malia Shimabukuro
I just remember you can somehow maybe put this on like splice it up and put this in the podcast.
01:11:04
Keegan Drummond
Yeah, we'll clip this.
01:11:05
Malia Shimabukuro
I remember when your family, when your family came and literally like Keegan Drummond was according to all the girls and you already knew this probably, but like Keegan was just like the dude, every girl like wanted to be around and like hang out with. And literally I was like, why Like I was not, I was not interested I was interested in someone else, which I think you remember who that was. but
01:11:31
Keegan Drummond
I don't. We can, we'll bring it up.
01:11:32
Malia Shimabukuro
Do you not?
01:11:33
Keegan Drummond
No.
01:11:33
Malia Shimabukuro
it's okay.
01:11:33
Keegan Drummond
yeah.
01:11:35
Malia Shimabukuro
It's okay.
01:11:36
Keegan Drummond
now yeah
01:11:36
Malia Shimabukuro
Anyway, I just was like, man, everyone loves this Keegan Drummond dude.
01:11:37
Keegan Drummond
i
01:11:40
Malia Shimabukuro
And I was like, and then our, like my mom and your mom got so close and like, you know, so then we were like hanging out more and then, don't know. But like my first impression of you was not great either.
01:11:52
Malia Shimabukuro
Cause you just were like this cool dude. Want to be.
01:11:55
Keegan Drummond
What did I do?
01:11:55
Malia Shimabukuro
Did you feel that?
01:11:55
Keegan Drummond
You know, I can like, no, well, I don't know.
01:11:57
Malia Shimabukuro
I don't
01:11:58
Keegan Drummond
It's like, what was I doing? I remember can like pull up the day that we met because our brothers went and watched the premiere of a Terminator movie in like 2000 and it would have been 2009 or 2008.
01:12:04
Malia Shimabukuro
really.
01:12:07
Malia Shimabukuro
Oh yes. It was a Wednesday night. Yeah.
01:12:14
Keegan Drummond
And so like, sometimes I'll just like go back and be like, when did Terminator whatever come out?
01:12:15
Malia Shimabukuro
Yeah.
01:12:19
Keegan Drummond
And I can identify that day because they met and then they were like, okay, we're going to go to this movie premiere together.
01:12:20
Malia Shimabukuro
Yes.
01:12:27
Keegan Drummond
But still.
01:12:28
Malia Shimabukuro
Yeah, that was a Wednesday night. I would get and so I guess not the first impression per se it was bad of you. But then it was like when you started coming to like youth group and stuff. All the girls and it wasn't my impression. That's actually kind of mean of me to say then.
01:12:42
Malia Shimabukuro
It was more so like all the girls were like, oh my gosh, Keegan and Keegan and Keegan. And I just I wasn't the girl that was always into like talking about the boys. I was rather the I mean, you know, I was like more of a tomboy that was just like, let me throw dodgeballs at people or like play basketball or so anyway
01:13:00
Keegan Drummond
Yeah, yeah, no, I mean, it's like, yeah, I felt like I had to, I enjoyed it thoroughly, but I had to pretend like I didn't, and that was...
01:13:12
Malia Shimabukuro
didn't
01:13:13
Keegan Drummond
pretty dumb yeah i was just kind of like i am so above all of this you know i'm just do you want to pray with me after whatever like i don't know like uh yeah i it was um yeah it was it was interesting i think it was just being new and i think everyone was new to me everyone was very interesting to me but yeah no they just do people i that haircut wasn't doing me any favors that's for sure
01:13:41
Malia Shimabukuro
I guess the according to some girls it was, but I don't even know who those girls are.
01:13:44
Keegan Drummond
for
01:13:45
Malia Shimabukuro
I'm not going to lie. i just, I don't know why. Just like that's in my head of like, yeah, Keegan was just the cool dude.
01:13:52
Keegan Drummond
we'll clip it everyone thought i was a total smoke show everyone thought i was all the girls thought i was a smoke show back in middle school and
01:13:53
Malia Shimabukuro
So.
01:13:56
Malia Shimabukuro
Well, not everyone, because not me, but...
01:14:05
Malia Shimabukuro
Yeah, we'll see your electric guitar after and your hair flips.
01:14:08
Keegan Drummond
bro Bro, there were a lot of hair flips. It kept getting in my eyes.
01:14:15
Malia Shimabukuro
Yeah.
01:14:16
Keegan Drummond
Yeah. i'm so I'm so glad that's done now. But yeah, that was an issue, especially when I was playing. And it was like in my face constantly.
01:14:27
Keegan Drummond
But yeah.
01:14:30
Keegan Drummond
different but okay i think i think that's i think that's a good good place to stop it at everyone loved me and everyone continues to love me and listens to this podcast now to hear
01:14:34
Malia Shimabukuro
Thanks for having me on here.
Final Reflections
01:14:46
Keegan Drummond
my thoughts on how our childhoods were and yeah i think that's a pretty good place to to end it malia shimabakura everyone all right
01:14:52
Malia Shimabukuro
yeah All right, sign me out.