Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
AMEC 2024: Media X Medicine
118 Plays1 year ago
We're live in NOLA at AMEC 2024! Join the conversation as Dr. Aldwin Soumare, Isabella Ntigbu, and Jared Jeffrey discuss Media and Medicine with special guest Dr. Nii and Renée Darko.
To share your thoughts on our discussions or if you have any questions to ask our hosts, email podcast@snma.org for a chance to be featured on the show!
Disclaimer: The opinions and views expressed on our podcast do not reflect the official stance of the Student National Medical Association.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Media and Medicine
00:00:05
Speaker
Hi everyone, I'm student Dr. Isabella, also co-host of SMA Presents the Lounge.
00:00:12
Speaker
And I'm Aldon Samari, also the third co-host and the libus if you already know you know. And welcome to Media and Medicine. We are going to give you guys a brief overview of what the history of media has been in general and you know some of the do's and don'ts of being
00:00:31
Speaker
in the limelight as far as media while being a medical practitioner. You know, it's a fine line to dance as far as like hip and things of that nature. And you definitely want to make sure that you dance the right side of that line. Okay, so let's get going.
Meet the Guests: Dr. Renee and Nii Darko
00:00:56
Speaker
All right, so I'm Dr. Renee Darko, and I am the best half of the Docs Out the Box podcast. Okay, that's it. That's it. I know you took this podcast over, and we got my husband over there. He started the podcast. But anyway, his name is me, Darko. I'm in OBGYN. He's a trauma surgeon, and we love podcasting with these guys. They are awesome. We had a lot of fun. So, yeah. All right, you won't.
00:01:27
Speaker
Like I said, black men and women are loving on each other in 2024. I know the podcast is going to be trying to put us against each other. In 2024, black men and black women are loving on each other. Please and thank you. Let's get started.
Evolution of Medical Advice: In-person to Digital
00:01:49
Speaker
OK, so we're going to go through a couple of things. Evolution of medical communication, impact of medical messages. You guys can read. I'm not going to read it all to you. We're just going to get started. Let's go. So just like the evolution of medical communication, there was once upon a time where the only way that you could get medical information is if you went to your practitioner, if you went to your physician, whatever the case may be. And a lot of us practicing medicine, we know that by that time, it's often too late. So how do we bridge that gap?
00:02:15
Speaker
One of the things is like the, you know, we have the print revolution broadcast media in the digital age and all that really means is medicine started to be published in newspapers after newspapers that went on to things like the radio and television just a little bit. And now we're at the digital age where people are getting on social media and things of that nature and people are kind of really trying to spread their medical messages.
00:02:37
Speaker
for better or for worse, to a large audience, right? And it's kind of one of those things where you kind of got to make sure, as more people get access to spreading information, it becomes one of those things where
00:02:53
Speaker
You have to siph through to make sure that you're not receiving misinformation, spreading misinformation, things of that nature. In the print revolution, it was kind of easier to manage that because, you know, newspapers had reputations to maintain and things of that nature. There were people that were siphoning through it for us. And so, yeah, these are some of the things that would go into making sure that you're not
00:03:15
Speaker
spreading the wrong ideas or presenting to people the wrong way. So, you know, you want to make sure that your constipation and privacy, you're not spreading misinformation and you want to make sure that you have like informed consent if you are presenting on like a really special case or if you're trying to like present on a patient that, I don't know, can easily identify themselves in your story, right? Just a couple of things to keep in mind. And so, oh yeah.
Media's Impact on Doctor's Image
00:03:45
Speaker
the public kind of gets like a skewed perception of us through media, right? They get to see the dramatized version, they get to see, have you guys seen that image where it's like, oh, like what my mom thinks I do for work, what my friends think I do, what I really do, you know what I'm saying? It's one of those kinds of situations where
00:04:03
Speaker
The image that we get, the image that is put forth kind of wasn't ours to control, and it's one of those things now where as physicians and people who actually have medical training are starting to take to social media and things like that to spread ideas, we are reclaiming the image of what a physician looks like, the things that a physician does and talks about, and kind of what is the norm for a physician.
The Rise of Telemedicine and Health Apps
00:04:30
Speaker
And yeah, this is just a little bit of information about that same digital age that I mentioned that we were stepping into. So telemedicine isn't something that was available before. These days, everybody's getting their lab results and things of that nature via health apps. And these are kinds of things that physicians are looking to implicate into their everyday practice to kind of make themselves more relevant and make their patient population more informed and be able to interact with them in a more positive way.
00:05:00
Speaker
And I think that should be it for me. Yes, yes, yes. So before we go on, I'm just going to allow my host to kind of chime in on the things that I've said and keep the conversation going. So we're going to do this run the list style, right, where we introduce a topic and then we're going to pod about it for just a bit. So the floor is yours, guys. What's the question? Give us a question. You said a lot. You said a lot. I know you said a lot. Break it down a little bit. OK, OK.
Doctors as Influencers: Controlling the Narrative
00:05:29
Speaker
So I guess the question or the idea to ponder would be from where we started from, print media, television media, to social media, what kinds of ideas and trends have you noticed, have you seen in terms of the way that doctors were represented and whether or not they were able to control those narratives? Well, I guess I'll start then.
00:05:58
Speaker
I'll say this. So doctors, I think even 10 years ago, right. We're like, why do you want a social media account? Why do you want a social media account? Right. Um, and that was a, that was a real thing in the profession. Right. So if someone was a physician, they had a social media account, their colleagues would basically be like, poo poo it. Right. But what we've seen is what we've seen is now.
00:06:26
Speaker
I mean, physicians are literally influencers at this point. Y'all know Dr. Iggy. He's here. He's walking around somewhere. He's someone who he gives his inspirational messages every day. He never actually has to say a word on social media, but he's walking around. He's dancing. He's doing things like that. 10 years ago, if there was a Dr. Iggy, they would be like, oh, that's so unprofessional.
00:06:51
Speaker
But now, like, it's so very acceptable because we need to understand that people accept information, receive information in so many different ways, and doctors are actually people. Like, you know, so I think now it's so much different. Yeah, it's fine. It's so much more different, and I think it's actually more positive.
00:07:17
Speaker
Because people are out there, you say one wrong thing and it's happened to me. People will comment like you'll say something and they'll comment below, we're gonna take your license or we're gonna go back door and tell the institution you work at that you said this and that. But what you're trying to convey is a positive message and it's totally devastating when you're moving those type of circles. But the narrative is to continue to control how you portray yourself to the world and also allowing your patients to somewhat get closer to you in a way.
00:07:44
Speaker
Not intimately, but in a way in which they can learn from you outside of the spectrum of being in clinical practice. And so, like you mentioned with Dr. Iggy, you know, doing all the dances and different things, you can formulate your own niche in social media. And that is so impressive. I mean, think about it. 1864, Dr. James McCoon Smith, the first black physician in America,
00:08:06
Speaker
You probably would never have fad in a room where you have all the black doctors, black medical students. And so we are in a special space to really control how we change the communities in which we want to serve and represent. Oh, I go next. Okay. They do. Oh, this might not stretch.
00:08:28
Speaker
Oh, no, I'm good, I'm good.
Public Health Messages and Credibility
00:08:30
Speaker
And yeah, even a very relevant example of how people might try to return a narrative, y'all remember the white coat photo that went viral last year from AMAC? There's a hate video of someone who said, would you want these people to be your doctors? Would you want these people? Yeah, yeah, you know what I'm saying? And I think it's as simple as an example, as you could get, of somebody trying to take something positive and try to rework it. And all it really is,
00:08:56
Speaker
You know, we all got, we grew up in the age of social media. We have good social media training. As long as we control our networks, we'll be good. Well, now we move on to the next topic, which is perfect segue into the impact of medical messages in the media. What we found in media in particular is interesting. Can you give a guess here, anybody in the room, on average, how much do people spend on social media per day?
00:09:32
Speaker
Well, on your phone, seven hours or two hours and a half on average, people spend on social media a day. So the thing is, social media, the way we're consuming health impacts the way in which we live, the way we think, the way we act, the way we behave toward each other, and the way we behave toward the world. And the public perception is very important because medical messages in the media significantly shape the health-related decisions made by lay people. So what you put out there, even as a medical student, people are checking for you.
00:09:50
Speaker
hours, it could be hours, minutes.
00:10:01
Speaker
as a doctor, as attending, as a resident, they go on your page and they're like, oh, talking about, I don't know, Kleinfelter syndrome or some random disease. And people are always trying to consume knowledge. And that's why I think it could be a benefit, but also you got a lot of people that be your patients pulling up to your, your practice and it's like, yo, I know you don't know how to treat this. I looked it up on Google. Like, did you go to medical school? Like, did you put in the work to do that? So again, um, public perception is very important.
00:10:27
Speaker
I want to speak about a particular story in which I was talking about THC and marijuana use. What we find is that marijuana use has increased exponentially, but on top of that, THC has increased exponentially as well. So I did a real Instagram.
00:10:42
Speaker
And I talked about how that's correlated with schizophrenia, which we've seen in various studies. And one of my homies, she hit me up and said, yo, my brother is actually going through this. And I'm really thankful that you were able to explain this because a doctor couldn't even do that for me. You know what I mean? So what I'm saying that to say is that you have a powerful tool at your disposal. And people are watching. This woman who had hit me up, she don't like none of my stories. She don't like none of my photos.
00:11:07
Speaker
But she, at that day, liked that and was able to communicate that. So you just never know who's watching. And your professional influence is very important. You mentioned Dr. Iggy. My man, Dr. Triggs, who's a plastic surgeon as well. Your influence is beyond you as a person. You are a brand. And social media can open so many doors. You can get a bag. Who here wants to get that bag?
00:11:39
Speaker
When we talk about social media, we have to think about ethical considerations as well, right?
Ethical and Privacy Concerns in Medical Information Sharing
00:11:50
Speaker
So patient privacy. I remember when I was in my third year and I was on my general surgery rotation. I'm a bold guy, I'm sorry, but I asked my preceptor could I take a photo in the OR while we were doing a cholecystectomy.
00:11:51
Speaker
Right. Who here trying to pay them loans off? Right. You're in the right room, but that's going to happen.
00:12:01
Speaker
And I got that during this clean, like I had the nurse take it in a portrait mode and I was like, yo, is it cool? He's like, yeah, we got it. You could do it. But after the fact, he gave me a conversation. It was like, make sure that you don't have any identifiable things that people could see in that post. But, you know, for every individual, things may look different. You know what I'm saying? When you're working with your preceptors or when you're working
00:12:27
Speaker
within the framework of health care. Luckily there was nothing else identifiable but I'm saying that to say sometimes that could pose a threat or risk to your own identity as a physician. So informed consent is another thing that's very important to think about on the portrayal of media. Medical procedures and treatments in media can raise questions about informed consent. So you have to be very careful. I don't know if you guys seen that viral video of there were nurses and they were like making fun
00:12:52
Speaker
of the patients and the babies and the OB-GYN. And even something that's small, they didn't say any names or anything like that, but something that's small as that, you know, foreign nurses just, you know, lost their jobs off of that. So be very mindful and critical in which way that you portray yourself on social media. Because again, people, the enemy is real. There's snakes in the grass. Even your own classmates will do you dirty. Even your own residents will do you dirty, which happened to me when I was in residency. So next slide, please.
00:13:18
Speaker
Media literacy and health education. So there's a whole host of educational opportunities for individuals like ourselves, but also it requires a critical approach to media literacy to discern credible health information from misinformation. So you got to actually spend time learning what is right and what is wrong. It's easy to just go on there and say whatever, but you got to do your research. I mean, we are professionals and people are looking up to us. And that wrong thing that you say, like I remember I did a real oral zimpic in his relation to suicidality.
00:13:46
Speaker
And I put in the reel that it was a weight loss drug. And somebody DM me like, no, it's a diabetes drug. I'm like, yo, chill, sis. I'm hitting the lay people, like you're saying. I'm not trying to hit the medical professions. I'm trying to hit the general audience. But the realities are, again, people are watching, and they will criticize. I did not change it. And I put them bold, that it's a weight loss drug, in my comment.
00:14:08
Speaker
So I ain't changing it until I feel. The behavioral impact, the pervasive influence of media on health related beliefs and behaviors necessitates a focus on media literacy as a public health intervention. Like I said, your behavior, we think that we're truly in control, but in many ways we are not in control. Social media, what we consume, we interpret. Even the algorithms we find on social media, they tell us,
00:14:32
Speaker
Like, go to you world. You'll see all of these posts about things that are very relevant to your life. And unconsciously, that can create biases. So you have to be aware of these biases. And again, how do you convey your message in a way that is objective, not personal, not subjective, that is not antagonizing, that is not attacking, but rather giving an overall scope of what things look like in the landscape of media.
00:14:56
Speaker
And then regulatory framework, I think this is a good discussion to have a bit about media influence, how to regulate yourself in a space where, again, you could lose your license, you could possibly get dismissed from school and things of that nature. The profound influence on mass media on health-related beliefs and behaviors underscores a need for a regulatory framework, and that could look like a multitude of things, right?
00:15:17
Speaker
I'm not saying, you know, we live in America, and we have an amendment, right, to say what we want and how we want. Remember, what you say can and will be interpreted by the subjective experience of the user, which is on social media, us as consumers, and us as people that portray ourselves on social media. And I don't know, what do you guys think about policy implications? Do you believe that there should be policy put in place, especially for health care professionals as it pertains to social media? You asking the rule? Everybody. Can we get somebody from the room to answer?
00:15:48
Speaker
Ask one more time. So, do you feel like there should be policy in place to regulate physicians or professions in healthcare space in terms of moving through social media? Good, good. Hold on, hold on, hold on. Oh yeah, my bad. You gotta be on the pod. I think, hello?
00:16:12
Speaker
I think it would be best for our protection, not necessarily for the general, you know, just being on social media, but, you know, just to protect us. What would that look like? Like, would that look like, oh, you could only post, like, objective information or post at a certain time? I don't know. What would that...
00:16:33
Speaker
I think it's like what you were saying before about, you know, asking the physician, is it okay to take this picture? You know, making sure there's no identifiable characteristics in there and stuff like that. But I don't necessarily think we need it because it's kind of common sense as well.
00:16:51
Speaker
Yeah, hi everyone. I was going to add that I think privacy is very important. So something I really like is like photo narrative telling, narrative storytelling. But even without a lot of challenges because it can really reveal the patient even in the subtle and most subtle ways, whether it's photo, whether it's voice, whether it's images. I mean, even if in some ways we do, we are similar, we're very unique. So I think
00:17:17
Speaker
to protect our patients, it's important to also have some sort of policy implemented. We're going to take one more.
00:17:26
Speaker
I could see how it could be necessary to have policy related to all of that. But at the same time, I feel like it does kind of encroach on freedom of speech for us. But I do agree with what she was saying. Maybe not something so structured as a policy or a law, but just guidelines for us that shared amongst these spaces, NMA, SNMA, things like that. But I think to make it something as structured as a policy, I don't think
00:17:56
Speaker
Yeah, there are a lot of institutions that have guidelines in terms of how you post your social media and affiliation attachments to your social media and the institutions.
Institutional Policies on Social Media Usage
00:18:07
Speaker
And even, I recall remembering, and this is a bit of a side, but there was an institution that one of my mentors was working at, and they actually could have control over your social media output, like your podcasts and things that you put out there. So be very mindful, read, there's regulations and policies in place, and don't neglect that.
00:18:25
Speaker
I have something to say about that. So initially, I tend to be the guy who's like, well, there should be no rules. Everybody should be allowed to have freedom of speech and kind of do your thing and stuff. But I think over the last six or seven years, my opinion has changed because
00:18:42
Speaker
Now there is, because there's so much chaos and there's so much noise, nobody knows who to believe, right? For the most part, you literally could be, when you guys, by the time you guys are practicing on your own, you're going to have patients who are going to say, Joe Rogan said this, Joe Budden said that, X, Y, and Z influencer said this about my medication, what do you think?
00:19:03
Speaker
And if you disagree with that person, then they probably are going to believe that person, that influencer more so than you, right? So that's complete chaos at that point. So I think in that situation, it's incumbent on us as medical professionals to actually just set a standard.
00:19:21
Speaker
I don't know what the standard is going to be, whether it's a policy or a guideline, or if it's some type of strict state rule or something like that, but there has to be something whereas, you know, you see even go to YouTube, YouTube will say like, this is COVID-19 related information, please heed accordingly, or Instagram has any of those type of disclaimers.
00:19:41
Speaker
I think we're going to have to get to the point where we do something like that because I think right now it's a free fall and it's to the point where if we don't say anything, then in essence we are complicit in the medical information because I'm sure you guys can go through YouTube and see so many different podcasts that say Intermittent Fasten does this, Intermittent Fasten does that. This is the best way to lift to 120.
00:20:05
Speaker
There's so much information that you don't know what's good. And these are even coming from medical doctors, right? And you know in medicine, you can even tell from their podcast, they don't teach some of this stuff in medical school. So what are you talking about? How do you know someone's going to live to 120? We didn't learn that in med school. So they're just making stuff up. So it's very important that there's a guideline there. That's my opinion on that.
00:20:31
Speaker
I was just going to piggyback on the idea of the COVID-19. I would say that the COVID-19 fact check, there was a point in time where so much misinformation was being spread that they actually started to review posts that were related to it and say, this has been confirmed true, this may contain misinformation. I imagine that some kind of
00:20:51
Speaker
Something like that is what it would look like instead of imposing guidelines Maybe there's like a reviewing body that could be comprised of physicians that work for these social media companies And you know do those kinds of things, right?
Maintaining Professionalism and Trust in Media
00:21:03
Speaker
If you have these physicians working for the social media companies That means that they're gonna be paid by the social media companies and these social media companies pay a handsome amount of money So, you know, they go it's it's Yeah, it is but they don't get paid
00:21:21
Speaker
Somebody get paid. Yeah. Speaking of getting paid, we have some of these pioneering doctors in media that are getting paid. Dr. Oz, as you may know. Who do you rock with Dr. Oz in here? Me either. Actually, I applied for his internship, social media internship, and he ran for Senate the year I did get it. But he was like, I'm running for Senate, so have a good life. And that's why you lost. But anyway.
00:21:51
Speaker
But the Dr. Osho, obviously you guys know the television program that's been instrumental in bringing medical information. But this is, I think, in my opinion, he's one of those doctors that we just mentioned that they don't necessarily even practice clinical medicine or have the word with all their knowledge to even talk about medicine to the extent that he does. And sometimes he's been quoted to support fads, whether weight loss. A lot of these interventions and people that he brings on his show, I think a lot of times, they pay to get on the show.
00:22:19
Speaker
And so money talks, right? If it doesn't make dollars, it doesn't make sense. And because of that, there's been tremendous misinformation that's been going on with his show. But obviously, there's been a lot of controversies and criticisms behind what he's done. And I think now, I don't know if he's still... Does he still have a show? Did he come back? I don't think... Okay. Well, I don't either. Next slide.
Influential Doctors and Media Representation
00:22:42
Speaker
Yeah, this is my man, Dr. Sanjay Gupta. I've always looked up to him. As you know, he's CNN chief medical correspondent, and he started his role in the 2000 in Atlanta. And he actually has a podcast currently called Chasing Life. He's wrote a number of books as well. And through his media presence, he has been an advocate for public health initiatives. And one of the things I love about Dr. Sanjay Gupta is that he's very objective. He also goes to the place where he reports on particular things happening in the world. So for instance,
00:23:10
Speaker
the disaster that happened in Haiti. He was probably known for that, for going over there and actually working with a lot of individuals in Haiti, and then as well as, you know, the war in Iraq and things of that nature. So I really respect Dr. Sanjay Gupta and what he does, and this is someone that I think we could all aspire and look forward to being like, and also with Dr. Darko's, too. How much did we pay for that? We'll talk off the air. What's up? What's up?
00:23:36
Speaker
What's going on, y'all? I'm back, I'm back. Oh, so this is another one, Dr. Anthony Fauci, right? We're all very familiar with him and his regular daily reports about COVID-19. One of the things that I think was interesting about the position that Dr. Fauci was put in was he was constantly on television reporting on things that they had learned
00:23:56
Speaker
maybe days prior, right? So at the same time during the pandemic, I was actually working as a COVID-19 lab tech, and I was at the New York City Department of Health. So I'm literally directly under the PhDs that are doing the work that are sequencing the virus and finding out all kinds of various things. I'm asking them, hey, is this stuff all the way? And they're like, no, he's giving the half truth. He's trying to keep the country
00:24:19
Speaker
out of a state of fear, and I think it was doing partial good, you know? There was clearly an agenda. They clearly wanted a certain thing to happen as far as, like, you know, getting the vaccine out to people and making sure that people stay social distanced, whatever the case may be, but at what point is not disclosing all the information, misinformation, you know what I'm saying? Just one of those things to think about in the same conversation. And we have Dr. Eitul Gawande.
00:24:48
Speaker
I'm actually not very familiar with him myself, but I heard that he was very important that he should be included in the presentation.
00:25:05
Speaker
He's the author, he's a surgeon I believe also, but he's the one who was really big on like surgeon checklists, making sure that you're following a checklist similar to what a pilot would follow right before a pilot pulls out of the plane because he's trying to reduce the amount of medical errors that occur in surgery, right? I'll just be as frank as possible, making sure you don't remove the wrong body part.
00:25:26
Speaker
and so forth, or making sure that everybody's on the same page as to what type of surgery is going on. And then also at the same time, I think he's talking about just a little bit of some lifestyle balance also. So before we move on, is there anyone else that comes to mind when you think of quote unquote influential TV media doctors, people that like had a true platform and stage to be able to
00:25:54
Speaker
I would say influence a greater population. Dr. Mike, he's a deal that's on YouTube, very popularized. I actually met Dr. Mike at a 40-40 club, so shout out to 40-40 club when he closed up in New York. I'm sorry. And I think there's something with the lack of answers, right?
00:26:21
Speaker
We see a certain set of people repeatedly, and I think with the switch towards social media, we'll be able to kind of diversify the faces, add a little bit of swag to the pot, if you may, and make sure that you know, like I said before, that physician-based medicine, like physicians in media, look a different kind of way in that we're changing the norm. Do you guys have anything to add?
00:26:47
Speaker
But I'm actually looking forward to seeing somebody come on and like really revolutionize the way in which we are trying to get medicine in certain neighborhoods. Right. So certain underserved neighborhoods trying to get them particularly men because the men seem to be lagging behind.
00:27:06
Speaker
particularly black men seem to be lagging behind in either their interest or their ability to rise up in medicine. So I'd be really interested to see if there's going to be a medical influencer who can kind of tap into the pipeline work either in urban areas or in areas where there's a whole bunch of underrepresented minorities that are not making it through the pipeline into medicine. That's why I think it would be really cool. We'll see.
00:27:33
Speaker
I am looking forward to Bravo canceling Married to Medicine. I said what I said. Listen, that's why I stopped watching that show. I said what I said. That's because she got rejected from it, actually. We did get rejected from it. It was too boring for them. Thankfully, because that right there is some ghetto medicine. I'm sorry. I said what I said. OK, so who else?
00:28:07
Speaker
Is it on TS TLC or Bravo Don Bravo. Yeah. I mean come on guys. Is that really how you want to be represented as physicians black physicians like come on? Oh
00:28:18
Speaker
Yeah, one of my mentors, she was asked to be on Married to Medicine, and she was driving a Corolla at the time, Toyota Corolla. She was a family medicine attending, had enough bread to get whatever car she wants, her and her husband. But the setup, like you said, a lot of these things are, it's a facade, because they had her actually change her house, she had to find a friend who had a mansion, and fake that she was living the house, and also fake that she had, I don't know, it's like a BMW 6 Series or something like that.
00:28:47
Speaker
That's true. That's very true. And that's another question to ask like, what is real and what is not in social media? I think there's an audience for everybody in medicine. That's the thing. Like there's people who are going to like married to medicine because they like that kind of content. They like reality TV. They like to see like the real without the sterileness of like medicine. So I feel like there is an audience for each person, but it's all about
00:29:08
Speaker
what you associate yourself with. So maybe I don't subscribe to what Mary's Medicine is doing, but I can appreciate, oh, these are black women who are in medicine, who are doing their thing.
00:29:17
Speaker
who are fighting. They're doing that too. They're throwing punches. But I guess, hey, if you were a fighter in your past life, it means that you could still be a doctor. That's how I see it. But it's not in their past life. It's as their doctors. So it's complicated. And look at them controlling our narrative again.
00:29:44
Speaker
I just think, but I just think it's the key thing is you need, if you have a married to, is it married to medicine? If you have a married to medicine, then you got to have other types that are kind of completely on the other side.
00:29:57
Speaker
When it's just one, there's so much weight on that one to be perfect, and I think that's not fair, right? It's like when we were growing up in the 90s, there's Love Jones, right? And then there's what, Brown Sugar, right? And then it's like these shows have to be, these movies have to be everything. But now there's multiple movies featuring multiple minorities and stuff, and you're getting them from different perspectives. Some are in school, some are not in school, so it shows like we're not a monolith. And I think, unfortunately, when you have just one type of show,
00:30:26
Speaker
and you don't have anything else to contrast it or anything like that that's just as popular, then unfortunately that becomes the singular way in which people view professional black women, unfortunately.
00:30:39
Speaker
Oh, that's a great segue because, you know, healthcare professionals, we do have like a huge role, I feel like in media as well that we could continue to subscribe to because people see us as like credible, like people see doctors as people have like taken a big chunk out of their life to dedicate themselves to learning this particular like skill, craft, whatever. And we're serving people in a very profound way. So yeah.
Authenticity and Diversity in Doctor's Media Portrayal
00:31:04
Speaker
I'm ready to do the show when you are. Okay. Well, you know, the only thing that I worry about, right, because the entire time that we've been here, you know, people who follow Docs Outside the Box podcast. And if you don't pull out your phone and do it now as well as the lounge. Um, but the people who follow the podcast, um, especially those of you who came to our session yesterday with the global health, um, initiatives, you know, one of the things that recurrently we heard
00:31:32
Speaker
was, oh my God, you guys are so down to earth, and you're exactly like you are on the podcast, right? Thank you. And I think that's really important. If someone is faking driving a BMW, faking living in a mansion, and then she arrives at a conference, then who are you talking to? Because at the conference, you're known for the show, but at the conference,
00:31:59
Speaker
people want to know who you are. And so what, what are you going to do? I think that it really creates a lot of conflict and a lot of confusion for you all because you're aspiring to be like this person, but you don't know her at all. You even know where she lives. Right. So thank you. How many of y'all want to be influencers? My man. Why? Well, it's kind of just, uh,
00:32:28
Speaker
Actually, as you was describing, I'm looking for somebody to bridge the gap between the kids in the community and stuff like that, like trying to introduce them to medicine and stuff like that. That's kind of what I wanted to do. That's my passion. When I grew up, I never seen anybody become a physician or anything like that. I had a complete life transition. I wanted to be a rapper growing up.
00:32:52
Speaker
you know, kind of just getting into medicine now that's like, man, like, this is actually cool. Like, and I want to advocate for that. And so, um, that's just my whole drive. And I don't want to, I feel like if you, I feel like a lot of people in the community, they just need that example. They need to see somebody that you can actually do it. Cause if it's not being televised, if it's not being on social media, if it's not being shown and all they're seeing is just rappers and athletes and stuff like that, they don't want to look up to that, but they see people like us,
00:33:19
Speaker
rising up and stuff and becoming physicians, they will want to do it. So that's why I want to use my platform for Ralph Brown. What year? First year. PCOM. PCOM? OK. All right. Awesome. Put it in front of them so that they can actually see it. Anybody else want to? OK. Go ahead.
00:33:40
Speaker
Tell us who you are, what school you go to. Hi everybody, my name is Amber. I'm a fourth year, I just matched OBGYN. Congratulations! And I'm lucky, I guess kind of an influencer already. I finally hit 10k on TikTok, so super excited about that.
00:34:01
Speaker
But what encouraged me to keep posting was when people would comment and say things like, my daughter wants to do this, but she's never seen anybody that looks like you and is actually doing it. So having those type of comments and just having people say, you know, you're doing amazing. People are looking up to you. That's exciting. And it makes you want to keep going even when the days are really hard because you're thinking about those people.
00:34:25
Speaker
who need to see this because we're important. AMEC is important. Being able to have the technology to see that all these black doctors are doing this one mission is like pretty iconic. So yeah, I think that's what really just makes me want to continue the influencing journey. So I'm excited to see like how it continues to grow, especially as I continue the residency and attending good and all the things.
00:34:53
Speaker
Is there any part of what you do that is kind of like a facade like do you ever have shots of like you waking up in the morning when you know like Actually
00:35:09
Speaker
No, surprisingly no. And I think that's my favorite thing about my content. I pride myself in being one of those people who the content that you see is exactly what I'm doing in real life. I told myself that making content, I want to make content that fits into my life but not make my life fit into the content. So I want it to be as authentic as possible and I don't want it to be two takes because I don't have time for that.
00:35:34
Speaker
So it's like, I truly don't have time. So it's just, if it makes the content, it makes it. And if it doesn't, then it is what it is. And I just keep it moving.
00:35:52
Speaker
I'm not going to stand and do my slide because I don't have to do a conversation and I just feel like standing makes it like a lecture. So this next part is the role of healthcare professionals in media.
00:36:06
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow, OK. But I know how I'm going to do my own thing. So I was just looking at you and waiting for you to finish up. So basically, in terms of health care professionals, I do have some notes. I might look down here and there. But there's this big piece of public engagement. We're always interfacing with people. And I think that when it comes to medicine,
00:36:30
Speaker
We have a unique position where we can actually talk about what's going on and letting people know like this is what's going on in health care without having to like do it in a traditional way. Like we're talking on either on a podcast we're talking on the TV and people listen to that people consume that. So it's like very accessible. I also invite you guys like if you guys want to chime in or like say anything like.
00:36:49
Speaker
I'm not going to do a formal Q&A, like if you guys just want to say something, just say it. Yeah, so I think that, like, it's very important to have, like, that piece of the media because we can inform our patients in a different way. And also as a doctor, we're just saying, like, we have certain expectations, we have certain responsibilities. So people kind of see whatever we say as a credible source. Like, they're not just thinking this is somebody just pulled out a mic and is just talking. They're saying they're using their knowledge that they gained in medical school, in residency, and they're talking about it from experience.
00:37:19
Speaker
Um, so I think that it's very important that we kind of like make sure to honor that and we don't stray from that too much. Next is going to be advocacy and awareness. I'm going to try to be quick because I know that we're short on time, but basically we want to make sure that we're being health advocates, even outside of the hospital and the clinic, like we're just like,
00:37:37
Speaker
making sure that our patients know that we are here for them and that we are making sure to keep them in mind as we are doing our work as doctors, especially when we're even talking on our podcast or whatever the case may be. And we're able to reach communities and not just individuals because we're on such a large platform. So that's also an important piece as well.
00:37:58
Speaker
And then moving on to professional networking, this is a perfect example, we're at SNMA, we're networking, we're talking to you guys, you guys are listening to us, and so even getting to use media in that way, knowing that some of you guys have listened to the lounge, others have listened to docs outside the box, and so this is another way that we're networking, and we're kind of learning from each other, expanding our knowledge, that way we can bring it back to our patients, so I think that's really important as well, and it removes the pressure that we gotta be at a conference that's a poster presentation to learn.
00:38:25
Speaker
Like you could just be talking like this and you're still learning and that's like important. I think there's something powerful about just learning without the formality, right? Kind of learning through the school of hard knocks. So like what me and Dr. Renee, a lot of times we'll talk about is, you know, what it's like to have like $650,000 of student loan debt. 662. Okay. And 53 cent.
00:38:52
Speaker
because you can read blogs about how to pay off your student loan debt. But if you don't feel it, if you don't see the person going through it, sometimes it's really hard for you to kind of envision yourself going through it, like what it's like to marry another doctor.
Real-Life Challenges for Doctors
00:39:05
Speaker
And now like if you come from, you know, I came from Queens, New York. She came from Brooklyn, New York. And just like that part of the game was not what was sold to us, right? Like it was just like, oh, you're gonna be a doctor and you're gonna go back and save your community. It's gonna be great.
00:39:18
Speaker
And it's like, not so fast. Like, you got this debt that you gotta take care of. And not only do you have this debt, this debt won't allow you to live in New York City or anywhere near you, you're gonna have to go to a rural area. It's like, well.
00:39:29
Speaker
What part of the game is this? So I can't make it formal. So we share that in our podcast and we talk about what it's like to sometimes even argue about money, like whose debt got paid off first or things like that because that's real. And I think that goes to what you're saying is there's a certain learning that you can get just by looking at someone else's struggles, so to speak.
00:39:50
Speaker
And even though it's not perfect and it's not the end, or excuse me, even though it's not a perfect process, I think if you're going through that process and sharing it with other people, that's how you help other people who look just like you kind of break the stereotypes and the barriers and so forth. You can start off with one portion of your life and then kind of get to another portion just similar to how you're doing it.
00:40:12
Speaker
And I think it's important to say the last point which is like our brand and like the ethical applications of this We have HIPAA. That's a real thing these days We know it's easy to not follow HIPAA through social media You could take a picture like you were just saying all to it and like there's patient information there and you may not have seen it so I think that it's very important to like make sure that
00:40:32
Speaker
as you're doing whatever it is that you're doing as an influencer, you're being mindful of that and that you're not like, I guess, breaching anybody's patient confidentiality. So yeah, the only question I have before we close out is like, how do you guys feel like we can be able to, I guess, honor our brand in terms of like, not being somebody that we're not, like being true to yourself, but at the same time being professional, enforcing boundaries and making sure that you're not like, you know, breaching anybody's privacy.
00:41:00
Speaker
I'll just say that just for anybody, just so y'all know, there's an audience for everybody. I'm not very flashy, I'm a trauma surgeon. My lifestyle as a trauma surgeon, what I do is, some people may look at it as very sexy, some people may look at it as very gory, but it's something that people really wanna know about. But if you go to my social media, I don't talk about it at all. Because it's just, what I do is very life and death, and you can really identify
00:41:29
Speaker
What's going on so for example like before like just two weeks before I got here There was a really bad accident on one of the major highways, and you know I had he was in my operating room I took care of the person it came to a point where they were flying in through helicopters blood
00:41:45
Speaker
Right? But then the next day it's on the news. Right? So if I'm talking about it on social media about, you know, taking out someone's spleen and packing their abdomen and putting blood in there and then taking photos of like the helicopters coming in, bringing blood from all these different areas, everybody's going to be like, ah.
00:42:01
Speaker
That's that doctor. Is he serious? Shouldn't he be more focused on X, Y, and Z? Shouldn't he be sleeping? He's been up all night. You open yourself up to all of these different things. So it's a tough balance. It's a tough balance. Some people are really good at it. Others, I'll say, even me, I'm not that good at it. So it's very hard for me to share my clinical stuff on social media. So I tend not to do it. We talk more about our lives and the lifestyle.
00:42:29
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, I think, excuse me, I'll just reiterate. I think it's important, like what you said, right? It's important to be authentic. Um, because if you are truly doing it because you want to influence, you want to advise, you want to guide other people, you can't do that from a lie. You can't guide from a lie, right? So you have to be authentic and guess what? It's not always going to be pretty. It's just not.
00:42:57
Speaker
You know, you're going to wake up. How do you feel, breathtaking? So you're going to wake up. You know, you're going to have these ideas. But just make sure that your ideas are coming from a place of truth. And I think that's the most important thing. Yeah, because I'm going to tell you, I ain't never driving no BMW. OK. We got a Toyota Corolla, too. OK, we're going to let Jerry close us out.
00:43:25
Speaker
Oh, we got, we got some comments. Thank you. Hello. Yeah. Oh, um, so my name is Percy touchy, um, fourth year student at the Philadelphia cause by suspected osteopathic medicine. Um, I just matched family medicine, um, with the strong congratulations. Thank you. Thank you. Um, so my question is between clinical medicine,
00:43:55
Speaker
and podcasts and just educating the population. At this point in your career, do you find either more fulfilling at this moment? And also in the follow up, in any time in the near future, do you ever see yourself transitioning fully away from clinical medicine?
00:44:17
Speaker
This is a very common discussion in the house. This is a very common discussion in the house. Maybe. Maybe. If I have gotten my fill of practicing OBGYN,
00:44:32
Speaker
I think I still have a few more years to go, but if I've gotten my fill, and I'm like, you know what? I need an activity to do when I retire, then yeah, I would do that. But I could also age out at a podcast again, because I could sit here and be like, damn, she old. Do we want to listen to her? So, you know, we have to temper that a little bit. Yeah.
00:44:57
Speaker
On behalf of both SMA presents the lounge and docs outside the box we want to thank you guys for coming out. Please follow us on all social media platforms and be sure to reach out to continue the conversation and we have an exclusive opportunity for those of you in the room.