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Interior Design to UX Design
68 Plays1 year ago
Katie went from being an interior designer to a UX Designer at Xfinity. This is a full-circle moment, folks! Katie's journey includes reaching out to our host, Elyssa, for an informational interview during her time as a Springboard student. And guess what? Now she's paying it forward as a mentor on ADPList!
In this episode, Katie speaks on the art of showcasing your soft skills during a career pivot and shares some pro tips on networking smartly and respectfully.
Get mentored by Katie here.
If you have any questions for Katie or the host that could be answered on a future episode, please email me at alumnipodcast@springboard.com.
Interested in finally taking the plunge by starting your career in tech? How does $1500 off a Springboard Career Track Course sound?
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Learn more here.
Edited by Dave Bianco
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Transcript
Introduction to Networking and Alumni Experiences
00:00:14
Speaker
Hello, everyone. It's another episode of Life After Tech Bootcamp, the podcast where we talk to a new alum each week to see how they're doing after finishing their course. So many of our guests and myself included have touted the benefits of networking, especially when trying to get a new job or learn a little bit about the industry they're trying to break into. One method of networking is asking for an informational interview with someone.
00:00:40
Speaker
Those on both sides of the informational interview I feel might never really know how you can mutually benefit from each other. So I always say when you have the capacity as someone being requested, try to take it. You never know.
Katie's Career Transition from Interior Design to UX
00:00:56
Speaker
So I'm extra excited for this episode as it's a real life example of what can come from asking for or accepting one, because it's how I met today's guest, Katie.
00:01:06
Speaker
So some background here, Katie and I both went to the same college, though at different times and in different programs. And she reached out to me on LinkedIn as a springboard UX student while I was working for Verizon. And she asked for an informational interview. 20 months later, she is going to share where she has landed since. So to properly introduce Katie,
00:01:31
Speaker
She is a UX designer at Xfinity. Katie studied interior design and worked in the field for eight years before transitioning to the world of UX in 2022. Katie, welcome. Hi, Alyssa. I'm so happy to be here with you today. Again, full circle moment right now. Yeah, absolutely. I just, you know, you're doing so much networking when you're hunting for that first job in UX and
00:01:57
Speaker
I remember finding your LinkedIn page and immediately feeling connected to you because you were a springboard alum, you were a UX designer, we went to the same college, and we both came from design backgrounds. And on top of that, we're both women and we're both similar in age. So I just, I knew immediately like, I need to talk to this girl. She has stood where I'm standing now and she's going to have some pearls of wisdom to share. I can feel it.
00:02:20
Speaker
I'm glad that you thought that. I'm glad that I came off as someone who seemed wise. That's very flattering. I think anyone kind of going through something, even if they're not like an expert or they're kind of new, they can always kind of share maybe the pitfalls or what they could have done differently.
Leveraging Transferable Skills in UX Design
00:02:43
Speaker
The biggest thing for me coming from design was, yeah, I can design a garment, but that doesn't mean I can design a user interface. So I always like to tell people that because I think when you're switching careers, it's always like find your transferable skills, but those transferable skills aren't black and white all the time, but you can really leverage those in the background. So that's, that's one thing I do like to share. I think some schools or just methods are like,
00:03:13
Speaker
If you can do this, that means you can do that. And it's not quite, not quite that. So. Yeah. No, I totally, I totally agree with you. Like when you're switching from design to UX, you don't have the hard skills. There's no way around it. You don't know Figma. You don't know various UX methodologies yet, but you do have the soft skills. And now I'm mentoring on ADP lists, like talk about full circle. And I like to talk to people that are career switchers.
00:03:41
Speaker
And I really like to talk to career switches who are coming from design backgrounds. And it always just turns into the same pep talk, which is think about these soft skills. Think about communication, collaboration, being able to talk about abstract ideas and turn them into a concrete product. That takes years to learn. Own that. Own those tools that you have in your toolbox. I completely agree. And I think one thing I leveraged was that I knew I wasn't
00:04:12
Speaker
going to have perfect practice in the industry. Fashion school, interior design school, you get to kind of do whatever you want. Same with your UX bootcamp. You can design any app really, as long as it meets the criteria of the program. But in the real world, like you working with clients, me working with factories,
00:04:33
Speaker
something's going to go wrong. So I kind of always knew when studying UX, like, okay, I can design whatever app I want and sell it and do the process. But I was constantly asking my mentor, like, what could go wrong here? What would an engineer say about this? And he probably was like, I don't know, Alyssa. No, he did have good answers. I don't want to put him down like that. But yeah, like, I was constantly wondering, like, okay, well, what would I be challenged with?
Work-Life Balance and Passion for UX Design
00:05:01
Speaker
Yeah, and that's just the part that Springboard can't really offer you. I'm sure your mentor did have some great answers for you, but until you're in that situation where you do have a dev wanting to talk to you because something you designed is not going to fit into your design system, you don't fully understand what that process is going to be like. But if you come from a design background,
00:05:22
Speaker
And I'm not trying to sell other backgrounds short, you know, if you come from any sort of background where communication and collaboration, especially interdisciplinary collaboration is key, like you're going to be better equipped for those, those experiences. I, yes, completely agree. Just knowing how things can go. Life in general is about things going wrong. And I think those who succeed know how to navigate them and learn from them.
00:05:47
Speaker
So yeah, going from a more zoomed out perspective, not so much a design profession, but just someone who can manage problems of any kind and get through them gracefully, I think can succeed in most professions, particularly within UX and pretty much any job. Yeah, I could not agree more.
00:06:11
Speaker
Well, let's go back to the beginning of a circle, which I know someone who knows more about geometry than me is probably like, there is no beginning of the circle. But let's go back to the beginning. So you were studying interior design at the university we both went to, which is so ironic because now we're both working in telecommunications. But what was happening? What was going on before UX came into your life? So I love interior design. I will always love interior design.
00:06:41
Speaker
And I really did, of those eight years that I was working in the field, many of them were good, great years, but I reached my mid to late twenties and I started to realize like, I am, I'm pretty stressed. I got a low level of stress at all times and I don't know how sustainable this is for me long-term. And I started trying to think about what the next 10, 20 years were going to look like in my life. And I looked at,
00:07:08
Speaker
the higher ups in the interior design field and they looked the same amount of stress, if not more stress than me. So that just let me know that like, it's not me, it's the industry. And for my own mental health, I need to start pursuing something that has a little bit better work life balance. And I started looking for careers that would capitalize on these skills that I had already gained as an interior designer.
00:07:34
Speaker
And I came across UX and I immediately fell in love with it because it has all of the elements that I love about design. It really capitalizes on the psychological aspect of design, but it also blends the functional and the aesthetic. You know, an interface can't purely be functional. No one will, you know, it's not very engaging to the user, but it can't be purely aesthetic either because then the user's not going to get from point A to point B. So that tension, that's what I love.
00:08:03
Speaker
about all design and it exists in fashion design, it exists in interior design, and it exists in UX design. So when I came across UX and the more I learned about it, the more I could see myself doing it. And we were off to the races from there.
00:08:16
Speaker
Yes. It was like a very natural, this is what I meant to be doing. It wasn't something forced or, I mean, naturally I don't think anybody goes, Oh, this is what I meant to do. Oh, but it pays a lot. No, that's okay. I don't want to do it. Like that's obviously a huge benefit too. Like I, I slept it for a long time in fashion and living in New York city. Like you're not living.
00:08:39
Speaker
glamorously in that industry, unless you somehow get very lucky. But yes, I can completely agree. It feels great when you find that next step. And so, okay, you're off to the races. What went into kind of deciding how to get those hard skills that we were talking about earlier?
00:09:00
Speaker
Well, something that was enticing about UX was you don't have to go back to a traditional university to transition into the field. And that was obviously very enticing to me. I didn't want to spend the time or money getting up to three or four year degree. So I knew I wanted to go the certification route. It was just a matter of what certification program. And the field is so saturated with options now. I really spent a long time very carefully researching
00:09:28
Speaker
different certification programs and what they could offer. Springboard is not the cheapest. It's one of the more expensive ones, but it was so clear to me right off the bat where that extra money was going. I loved the idea of one-on-one mentorship. I loved the idea of essentially getting an internship, and I loved the idea of career coaching is ingrained in the course from day one.
00:09:53
Speaker
Yeah, Springboard stood out to me as my number one pick pretty early on, and I'm so happy that I ended up going in that direction. It gave me that additional support that I really needed. Yes, and I'm sure that once you saw that we were placed in an internship, which is what Springboard calls the IDP industry design project, that was music to your ears. Because you know, you can't just graduate from interior design school or fashion school.
00:10:20
Speaker
send out your resume and like give me a job. It's a very much a you need experience before we'll hire you situation. So that internship that they just place you in, oh, like thank you. Thank you for giving me a little real world experience before I graduate. Yeah, absolutely. It was, it was one of my favorite parts of the course and the field is so saturated now with people looking to land that first full-time position that to be able to have concrete experience, it just gets you, bumps you a little bit higher.
00:10:50
Speaker
in the list. I agree.
Learning and Applying UX Methodologies
00:10:53
Speaker
And you never know if that internship could turn into a part-time job. So there's that. All right. So you you've enrolled in Springboard. What did you learn in the course that you think you're using today that really helps you succeed now? Well, thinking back on it, you go through that first project and it's so long and you're going through so many different steps.
00:11:20
Speaker
And you're learning so many different methodologies in research, in ideation, in testing. And it's, it's such a long process, but when you get to the second project, you realize what it was all for. The whole point of that is to expose you to so many different, you know, to a diverse array of UX methodologies. So that in the second, in the second project,
00:11:45
Speaker
The second project is deliberately more loose. It's less structured. It's, okay, now you have this toolbox. How do you want to use the tools in that toolbox? And I thought that was so well done because that second project and moving forward from there is how the real world as a UX designer is structured. My manager isn't coming over to me and saying, I want you to do this type of research, do this type of ideation. I want you to put the project together in this way.
00:12:14
Speaker
I'm given a lot of autonomy in my current position to figure these things out for myself. Like just the other day I had a screen that was really driving me crazy. I like could not, I could not get these features to fit together in a way that looked aesthetically pleasing and wasn't confusing to the user. So I did crazy eights. I did some crazy eight sketching. My manager did not tell me to do that, but I knew that that was what was going to get me unstuck in this particular situation.
00:12:40
Speaker
And that's because Springboard exposed me to all of these various different ways that you can move a project from point A to point B. Yes, and also I'm assuming you work a little bit remote. You're not in an office every day seeing how other people work. So it's great that you had the skills to kind of draw upon, whereas like now what I struggle with is
00:13:03
Speaker
I don't have coworkers to say, oh, you're doing it that way. Let me try it that way. So that's an excellent point. Springboard really could, I think I learned more at springboard than I did my undergrad. That was relevant. And I'll be, I'll be honest. Like I don't think my undergrad program set me up for success, but springboard, like I think I was way more prepared for what I'm doing now. So I'd love to understand more about
00:13:33
Speaker
you're finishing up the program and you're getting into the job hunt, but was there anything that you felt like you had to do outside of the course to prepare you to get into the industry? I wouldn't say, there's an element of the course I wish I had taken more seriously, which is if I could go back and tell myself something that I know now, that I didn't know then,
00:14:00
Speaker
I would say the course is not just about getting you the hard skills you need to be a UX designer. It also, it's meant to teach you what kind of designer you are or want to be. And part of that is mining your past experiences. Part of that's understanding why you got into UX and what you're hoping to get out of it.
00:14:22
Speaker
And I think a lot of people, they see the flexibility, they see the high salary and they run into UX, not really understanding anything beyond that. And to understand who you are, where you came from and where you're hoping to go, that's crucial. And Springboard, to their credit, tries to sprinkle that throughout the course. I remember one of the earliest onboarding exercises was, what industries are you interested in?
00:14:48
Speaker
I'm like, what industries am I interested in? I'm interested in UX. And, you know, eventually I figured it out, but I wish I had taken those questions just as seriously as I did my coursework because it would have allowed me to move through the course with even more intention to build my portfolio with even more intention and to
00:15:10
Speaker
you know, get some of that soul searching done early rather than, you know, for me, a lot of that soul searching happened in the thick of the job hunt, where I'm having to pitch myself to multiple people weekly, and I still kind of didn't have my identity yet as a UX designer. So that's something that, yeah, to springboard credit, they really do try to get that out of you, but I wish I had taken that more seriously from day one.
00:15:33
Speaker
That's a really interesting thing that you're not to be blunt and say you struggled with, but I, yes, that is a huge point in that you can't practice all of UX unless you end up as maybe designer, like the first designer is startup, but
00:15:51
Speaker
I don't think you're going to be getting that job right out of boot camp. But to your point, yeah, so how did you kind of take a step back and rework your portfolio or rework your strategy to figure out what you did like? Gosh, I really it became clear and clear to me as I moved through the course, like what part of the process really set my soul on fire creatively. And I really loved the research aspect.
00:16:20
Speaker
of UX and even in my current position, I'm not the one doing the research, but we have researchers. I love getting their findings and seeing what I can make of them. And I also loved the testing aspect of it. I loved, you know, to be a designer is to, you have to have some curiosity naturally built in. And I loved feeling really confident about my designs, getting them in front of a user and learning something that I didn't know before.
00:16:47
Speaker
So that's something that I really leaned into when talking about what made me passionate about UX, you know, I'm passionate about the ambiguity of it all I'm passionate about being proven wrong. So that became this great foothold that I had into introducing, not only where I was today but where I, where I had come from, from the interior design world.
00:17:09
Speaker
Focusing on like, what part of the process are you most excited about? And for everybody, it could be a completely different answer, but what sets your soul on fire? Maybe you're someone who loves UI. That's not where I'm at. I like UI, I'm competent at UI, but I'm not the kind of person who's going to be like,
00:17:26
Speaker
on Dribble teaching myself some new tricks every day, but that might be somebody else, but find what makes you passionate about the process. Yes. I'm so glad you even said like, I'm not going to be on Dribble teaching myself UI. I don't know if you fell into this trap, but one thing I struggled with was I think coming from the fashion industry, it's very flashy and exciting and
00:17:49
Speaker
like sexy and you just want to put on kind of a show in a way. So I thought, oh my gosh, UI, I want to design for Nike and make these slick interfaces. But I'm not good at that. That is not where I thrive. And even in fashion school, I was never doing these elaborate couture gowns. I was doing, you know, menswear, where it was a lot of
00:18:09
Speaker
deep construction and tailoring and I really realized and I was more of a UX designer and that was actually kind of hard for me to like Swallow like that was not what I was good at and I was not gonna work at some like cool agency and Yeah, so I I wondered if that was if you kind of struggled with that too, or did you do you have a better go at the beam? Gosh, I have to think about it. I mean I just I
00:18:37
Speaker
It's kind of never been the person that I am. And it's not that I'm bad at UI. And I'm sure you're not bad at UI either. It's just that the people who love it really love it. And I'm not going to be at that level ever. And I was just more interested in getting into the nitty gritty of understanding who the user was. Like, I think if I could have a tangential career, I'd want to be some sort of
00:18:59
Speaker
therapist or psychiatrist because the psychological aspect of projects really, that's another thing that sets my soul on fire and really understanding who the user is.
00:19:08
Speaker
and really cracking the code on how best to serve them in this situation. And that's who I was in interior design. I worked in residential design. We really got to know our clients. We became incredibly close with these people because we were designing their house. It's like the most personal place in their life. And to really get to know how they wanted to live and to design specifically for them, that's what made me so happy at the end of the day, delivering a $6 million home to somebody.
00:19:37
Speaker
So yeah, being the slick, figma fanatic UI master was just, it was never my destiny in the design world, but I had to kind of do that soul searching to learn what was my destiny in the design world. And by getting really clear on that, I was able to speak to myself and my skills all the better when it did come to the job hunt. Yeah, I think there's something to be said about like, sometimes on the surface, like what I design,
00:20:08
Speaker
I'm not going to say it's bad because I designed it, but it's not sleek and pretty. It's functional and it looks correct because I understand UI and yes, I am competent in it, but there is something very exciting about that psychological aspect and running a test through people. I use user testing
00:20:31
Speaker
a lot and just hearing people talk about what I've designed. And sometimes it's not very nice because you're testing something that's a little bit more experimental and people are very, very sensitive to their bills. We're both working in telecommunications, internet, wireless services where people can't really live without their phones and their internet.
00:20:56
Speaker
So it's not really something people want to pay for, but they have to. So it's been an interesting journey in learning like, how can we make someone happy for something they don't want to pay for? Yeah, I can totally relate to that play. Like you said, we both work for telecommunications companies. So I mean, I think this conversation we're having over like the getting to know the user
00:21:21
Speaker
functional aspect of UX versus the sleek, sexy aspect of UX, it kind of gets into what kind of working environment are you interested in when you are looking for that first full-time position. You and I are both at big corporations. And a big benefit, I would say, of a big corporation is your users are your users.
Navigating Corporate UX Challenges
00:21:42
Speaker
They don't change every day. So you can really get to know those users.
00:21:46
Speaker
If you're working for a big corporation, they're putting in quite a bit of resources into understanding those users and understanding what they need and market research and user testing. So that's been very rewarding for someone like me to really get to know who are Xfinity's customers and how can we serve them well. And it's also rewarding for me because our UI doesn't change every single day. I'm not at a design agency where every project is a totally different brand identity.
00:22:16
Speaker
I'm able to work with our library of existing components, existing fonts, existing colors, and make beautiful UI that fits with the Xfinity brand without having to come up with something novel every single time. But for somebody who's a different identity as a designer, that might sound really boring to them. And they might really like the design agency setting where every project is a new sexy direction. But again, that just goes back to understanding what really makes you tick in design and then
00:22:45
Speaker
Tailoring your portfolio in that direction so that you are ready to go for those positions when you start your job hunt. That's absolutely a great way to put it. And so important to share, especially when I was joining Looking at Jobs, I wanted to work at a smaller company, not be one of two designers, but maybe one of four or five. So I could really work on a lot of the product.
00:23:12
Speaker
And I landed at Verizon and it's an opportunity, you know, and I really did start to embrace like being able to just hone in on small parts of the experience and understanding how they fit with the overall ecosystem and working on a big enterprise like that. You know, it's also something that can't really be taught in design school. You're designing something all by yourself, but
00:23:39
Speaker
If I change one thing on a user interface at Verizon, like usually can't because of what I'm about to say, but changing like one element in our experience, where else is that element over our entire website? So that's been a very fascinating thing to learn and something, again, no education can really teach you is that
00:24:05
Speaker
like just figuring out how things all work together and how your work impacts the greater product. So we're branching into talking about our jobs, but like, let's figure out how you got your job. So you're finishing up Springboard. We know you're doing informational interviews because that's how you met me. I know. And so what was, let's hear about that. So the job hunt,
00:24:33
Speaker
Nothing could have prepared me for how difficult it was going to be. As I mentioned earlier, the industry is pretty saturated now. People are learning that UX is a pretty exciting field to be in, but that means it's not enough just to have a portfolio. It's not like you can create that portfolio and land an entry-level job within a month. I was on the job hunt for four months.
00:24:58
Speaker
If I had the opportunity, I would do it all over again, but I think I would have prepared myself a little bit better for just how difficult it would be. There's a million different ways you can go about the job hunt, but something that I found to be the most beneficial and useful for me was networking.
00:25:18
Speaker
It's really networking at its core is finding others in the industry that are at companies that you're interested in or someone that you feel as though you can learn something from and sitting down with them for a 20, 30 minute conversation. And where I felt I thrived is being very strategic with my networking. You can send 10 LinkedIn messages a day that are generic and not personal and you might not hear anything back.
00:25:47
Speaker
But I would put in a little bit of extra elbow grease to try to find people that I shared common ground with. That's how I found you. I was using LinkedIn's filtering search system to find people who were springboard alumni or people who were Philadelphia University alumni. And you happened to tick both of those boxes.
00:26:07
Speaker
And it allowed me to tailor my messages to say, I'm sure for you, I was like, hey, Alyssa, I'm a Philly U alumni. I see that you are as well. We were there at the same time. I see that you studied fashion. I studied interiors. Now you're in UX. I'd love to learn more about your journey. So it's not just this generic, hi, you want to chat? It was, oh, I'm actually interested in you and what you have to say. And I still actively network. And I always try to find people that
00:26:36
Speaker
They are, I can, I can tailor make that message to them so that they are, you know, because you share that common ground, they are exponentially more likely to want to help you. And beyond that, now that I'm on the other side of networking where I'm on ADP list, I have people reaching out to me to learn what I know and get my tips on the job hunt. Where I'm seeing people fall flat on the other side of networking is
00:27:02
Speaker
So finding someone to chat with is relatively easy, especially if you've got a good strategy in place. But now that you've made that connection, you need to foster that connection. And there's a few ways to do that. First, send a thank you note. I'm kind of flabbergasted at how few thank you notes I get. And it's not a ego thing. It's not like I feel as though I deserve to be thanked.
00:27:26
Speaker
If you've got someone who you've got them on the phone or got them on Zoom and they're sharing their time, energy, and knowledge with you, it takes five minutes to write a quick thank you the next day. Also, if somebody gave you some good substantive information like, read this article, listen to this podcast, oh, I think you should look into this company, follow up with that, and then let them know that you actually followed their advice.
00:27:49
Speaker
So that just kind of builds that repartee, it builds that trust. These are the things that I feel like people are falling flat on because if you've built that connection and you want that connection to eventually recommend you for a job, it's not going to happen if you talk to them once for 30 minutes and then never speak to them again. It's more likely to happen if you actually put in the time and after to build a relationship with that person.
00:28:13
Speaker
And it doesn't all need to be business. If I have extra time in my networking sessions, I ask people, what are you doing your free time? Where do you live? I just had a networking session with someone who's also a Philly girl. She gave me a great restaurant recommendation. I have it in my networking spreadsheet. When I go there, I got to follow up with her to let her know, thanks so much for that recommendation. It's all about building a relationship with people and making the job hunt feel more human than just sending out applications to seemingly nowhere.
00:28:43
Speaker
I completely agree with all of that. And you touched on an amazing point. Like we always talk about mentors and how you should give back and all that. But as a mentee or someone seeking advice, like you have a role to play in this too. You also need to not just get information from someone, but you know, show how you can be impactful back. And that's kind of the precursor to
00:29:12
Speaker
a job interview. It's not about you just getting a paycheck from them while you work, what, eight hours a day. What are you giving them? So I completely agree. I do say that's a very hard thing to do. Not so much just sending a thank you note or just following up, but maintaining relationships, going back to just being really interested in why people are the way they are.
00:29:40
Speaker
We're not really taught how to have relationships. You know, someone, a previous guest was like, we're taught not to speak to strangers. So right there, we're cutting off a human interaction on a very high level. That being said, you know, building relationships in general is something everybody needs to work on. I'm included. Like my boss will give me feedback on, hey, like I feel like you could say things a little differently and that forge a stronger relationship with our stakeholders.
00:30:09
Speaker
There's always something to learn, but I completely agree that, you know, the mentee or someone seeking advice does have a role to play as well.
Strategic Networking and Career Growth
00:30:17
Speaker
Yeah. Or you just think about like, what is the ultimate goal of networking? The ultimate goal of networking is to have this person recommend you for a job. And if the person feels like they're being used, like you're just going to come around when there's that open entry level position, like
00:30:33
Speaker
That feels so disingenuous. But if I feel like I know you and I want to see you succeed, I'm so much more likely to want to help lift you up. I completely agree that is the more difficult aspect of networking. I could be better at it on my side of things. But I think in my job hunt, I sent out who knows how many applications. I got maybe three interviews back from, let's say, 100 applications.
00:31:02
Speaker
Those three interviews went okay. But then through networking, I got my two best interviews. And of those two interviews, I got my job now. So if I were to go back out on another job hunt, I would focus 75% of my time and effort into networking and 25% into just sending out cold applications. Because to me, I saw that it worked. When I had those two interviews that were through networking connections,
00:31:31
Speaker
They started out in a much warmer place because people felt like they already had a sort of introduction to me. And I feel like that's what helped them go much better than the ones where these people only knew me through my LinkedIn page. I agree. And the best advice I give is when you're on that job hunt, you're making these connections.
00:31:50
Speaker
I definitely, and I think some of the more jarring things you've probably heard in your networking is, can you just get me a job, Katie? Oh, you're Xfinity. Hey, are they hiring? And it's like within the first five minutes, I don't know you. Why am I just going to refer you to my company? That's also my reputation too. I want to refer someone who's
00:32:13
Speaker
You know a little not professional. I don't know you so you yes, but I always say when you do have that rapport with somebody I always like to add them on LinkedIn and then if a full time I never ask about a job when I need someone ever I'd like to ask maybe about the company culture to see if I might be a good fit. That's a safe thing to ask however
00:32:39
Speaker
you know, going forward, if I see a job opening, that's when I'll come and be like, Hey, I saw this job. You know, would you be comfortable giving me your referral link? Because sometimes people do get money when you get hired if they refer you. So there is that nice little bonus, but you will also, if they are comfortable with that, they, you will go to the top of the pile. Like I've been, I had some pretty cool interviews at some well-known companies because of that.
00:33:06
Speaker
So that's my biggest tip is get that referral code from your connections. Yeah. But also you shared another great tip, which is never asked for the job during your first meeting. No. And if people are listening to this and they're like, well, what do I ask? Cause that was me when I first started networking. I'm like, what am I talking to these people about?
00:33:25
Speaker
What I really found success doing was if they worked for a company I was very interested in, I would focus on asking them about what's your role like, what's the company's culture like, like really focusing on learning more about that company. But if I just networked with somebody I met on ADPList and I didn't quite know what to, you know, I didn't have any specific knowledge I wanted to gain from them, I'd have them go through my portfolio, give me some feedback.
00:33:49
Speaker
And that's something else that really helped me find success in my job hunt, which was always improving myself. Because you go through that first month, you send out who knows how many applications and you hear crickets back or you hear nothing back or you have a bad interview and you feel awful. So to keep myself from going crazy, I constantly iterated. I constantly improved my pitch, talking about who I was, where I came from, where I hope to go.
00:34:19
Speaker
and I constantly was tweaking my portfolio. And it gave me something to do during that long job hunt. And it also made me feel like, okay, I improved that thing and now wait till they get a load of me. I love that. And also it's like doing something for yourself too. Like, you know, I feel like when you feel you've improved yourself, people do notice. But let's talk about that you,
00:34:46
Speaker
found this job through networking. Like tell me that story. So it was, my strategy was to find springboard alumni or find Philadelphia University alumni. And this, the latter was a Philadelphia University alumni that I met this person one time, maybe 10 years ago, but he knew my college roommate very well. Like they were very close in college and I saw that he was a UX designer at Xfinity.
00:35:13
Speaker
So I reached out to him just saying like, hey, it's great to connect with you. I see that you're in UX. I'm new to the field. Do you have any wisdom that you could impart on me? Would you be willing to meet? And shout out to this guy who, again, I met one time 10 years ago. He was like, oh my god, congratulations. Welcome to the field. Was just so gracious with his time, his energy, and his information. And I didn't ask him for a job. I didn't even know Xplinity was hiring.
00:35:42
Speaker
You know, we kept up that repartee on LinkedIn and, you know, in Q1 of last year when Xfinity started looking for new team members, he said, oh, let me recommend you to my old manager. And by having that introduction from this person, that's what landed me the interview.
00:36:00
Speaker
And Xfinity has added several more designers since then. And all I keep thinking is like, God, these people are far more qualified than I am. But because I had that networking connection, I was able to get my resume a little bit higher in that pile, get that interview. And then from there, I was able to really demonstrate my value. I'm someone who I like talking. I'm confident with presenting. But people had to give me that chance. I had to get in the door to be able to do that.
00:36:28
Speaker
And when you're just sending cold application after cold application on LinkedIn, you know, that was such a small return on investment in that regard. Whereas this one connection helped me jump the line and land this position over, I'm sure many more, more qualified candidates. But it was just that power of connection that got me there and allowed me to demonstrate my worth.
00:36:49
Speaker
Absolutely. And just getting in front of someone and demonstrating that you're, to be quite blunt, a normal person who wants to work. That's a very hard thing to do to convey over paper. And we're not even doing paper resumes anymore, like a digital application.
00:37:07
Speaker
So I, yeah, I completely agree. And, you know, I think also within the networking too, just showing that you're willing to learn and getting that validation from people in the industry. I will say, yeah, I think you have what it takes to get there is that definitely kept me going. And I'm sure you got that feedback as well. Yeah, definitely. Definitely. But also like.
00:37:28
Speaker
My manager, the person who hired me, who is a terrific manager, we get along great. I'm so lucky to be working underneath him. But he is who interviewed me and he was, you know, he wasn't blind. He read my resume. He knew that I didn't have the same experience that some of these other candidates had. And he was pretty blunt in asking me like, so what makes you think?
00:37:49
Speaker
that you can transition from where you've been to where you are now. Whoa, that is blunt. That is very blunt. He's a lovely person and it was said like in a very warm way. I believe that. I believe that. He was genuinely curious, but because I, again, circling back to that soul searching, that learning how to talk about where you were and where you are and what you want out of this industry,
00:38:13
Speaker
I had that answer. I was like, I'm happy you're asking me this question. Let me tell you what I can bring to the table. Immediately just knowing you and hearing that that question was asked of you is like, oh, you have an answer for that. I can't even imagine somebody getting into the position that you were in and then not having an answer for
Continuous Improvement and Mentorship in UX
00:38:35
Speaker
why.
00:38:35
Speaker
Trust me, it was trial by fire before that because I'll never forget my first interview. It was from some random applications I sent out on LinkedIn. Oh my God, I have an interview. I'm absolutely going to nail it in. This is my job and it went fine, but obviously I didn't end up with that position and that hurt. That really hurt, especially from someone like me who showed up so earnestly and so ready to do the work.
00:39:03
Speaker
But because I fell on my face in that regard and several times after that, it made me ready to nail the interview that got me my job. So that just kind of speaks to failure, learning from mistakes. Like if you're someone who went through springboard and you landed
00:39:20
Speaker
the first job that you got an interview for, please reach out to me directly. I want to know what magic powers you possess. Please reach out to me too. I want to put you on the podcast. I'll get back to you. Can you listen to the episode? I can't wait because I would bet a large sum of money that everybody's going to tell a story like me, which is like, oh, I failed many times. I didn't have it figured out. And then when I did have it figured out, that's when I started to see actual results.
00:39:49
Speaker
So don't be afraid of failure. Don't be afraid of bad interviews. Don't be afraid of bad portfolio reviews because pain is information and that's what's going to help you iterate and come back stronger next time. Yeah. Pain, like, um, so I, you know, being in running now, I run a lot of half marathons. I see, um, a lot of really great signs. And I remember one when I ran the New York city marathon was,
00:40:14
Speaker
pain is temporary, pride is forever. And going back to what we were talking about, how you learn from your mistakes and how you navigate your problems in life really kind of says a lot about who you are. And if you want to be someone with pride and, you know,
00:40:30
Speaker
your dignity. I think a lot more people have respect for those who make a mistake, own it, learn from it, and grow than someone who does the opposite, just complains and blames others for their problems. Or nobody's perfect, so I can't imagine that being a scenario. Like you said, getting your first interview and
00:40:55
Speaker
just doing your first job and that was it. So yeah, I completely agree to not be afraid of failure because it really speaks to your character in the end. Seriously. And the field is super saturated right now, but if you are someone who is going to switch careers, go through the certification program and go through the hell that is the job hunt, then you really want to be there. Like that gives me hope for the people who are landing those entry level positions because
00:41:24
Speaker
I know you've been through it. You've been through some ups and downs and you've really had to scrap and show your worth to get where you are. So that gives me a lot of hope for the future of the industry. I agree. And now that you're here, you're in the industry, what's it been like for you? What's your life like now?
00:41:43
Speaker
So I will say coming from a design background really did serve me well because of what we talked about at the beginning of the episode, I had those soft skills in place. So, so much of working at a large corporation is interdisciplinary collaboration, not being afraid to say, I don't have this information and I need to go talk to somebody to get it. Like I had those skills and, and that's really helped me find my footing at Xfinity and Excel where I'm at.
00:42:09
Speaker
But where I still need to grow and where every UX designer can constantly be growing is those hard skills, Figma. There's still Figma tricks that I do not have up my sleeve yet. Yeah, and they just rolled out the new AI feature. Yeah. I haven't even had time to look into it. I'm a bad designer. I will. Now that I'm saying this out loud, this is going to be a goal this week. Yeah, but something that I learned during our first informational interview was you told me you're like,
00:42:38
Speaker
Katie, you can't be afraid to ask questions. You can't be afraid to say you don't know something. And I truly do think about that on a constant basis because I was used to, in the interior design world, I was a senior designer. I was used to being the one who had all the information. And starting back at the bottom of the barrel was difficult in admitting that, could you explain that to me again?
00:43:00
Speaker
You know, my component isn't acting the way I want it to act, and I'm gonna go ask the senior designer, and the answer might be really stupid, but I gotta ask. I gotta ask, because it's the only way that I'm gonna continue growing. So I think I've really found the transition to be easier than I thought it would be because of that design background, and also because I haven't been afraid to admit I don't know something, and that can be really hard for people to do.
00:43:27
Speaker
Very, very hard. And I love how you brought that up, that I gave you that advice, and that's advice I need to listen to more myself. I need to listen to myself. I don't know how conceited that sounds, but it's very scary, especially when you do sometimes have experience. People don't always welcome questions, but luckily, I'm in a much better company to ask questions where I'm not judged really ever, which is so nice.
00:43:56
Speaker
Yeah. And you're really touching on something important, which is my transition has been so seamless also because of who I'm working with. My manager, like I said, wasn't blind, knew how inexperienced I was by looking at my resume and talking to me in my interview. And he has really, through every method he has sought to lift me up and bring me up to speed and never made me feel bad about asking a stupid question. And I know that, you know,
00:44:23
Speaker
Not everybody has that luxury in their first position. Um, but I feel very well supported in the team that I'm on that nobody ever makes me feel like no one makes me feel bad. No one makes me feel micromanaged. Everybody wants to see me succeed. And it really warms my heart. And it makes me, you know, when I'm in a manager position one day, I want to, I want to offer the same thing. I want to find those career switchers want to lift them up. I want to bring them to speed. I want to make them feel empowered because
00:44:51
Speaker
I know that can't be easy for my manager, and I just so deeply appreciate it. I don't know where I'd be without this kind of working environment. And it sounds like you've got something really similar at Verizon. Yeah. You know, I love how our stories are just so similar. It's like, well, I have to start like touching base with you more because it's like, if this happened to Katie, it's going to happen to me now. I know, right? We're like linked somehow, psychologically.
00:45:15
Speaker
Clearly you do that. Like anyways, that's that's like a topic for another podcast, I guess. But yes, it is really great. And I think something, you know, I've struggled with is always staying even keeled. And particularly because I'm in a space where everyone just has a higher EQ and, you know, in fashion, like people would just scream at each other. And now I'm out of it. I'm just like, how did I live like this? But
00:45:45
Speaker
You know, I was talking to a colleague who's also a good friend of mine, and he did say something on the long lines of working with others. It's so important to stay even-keeled. Like, not everybody thinks like a UX designer, even though we think our thinking's like the best way. People just don't. People will read that book, The Design of Everyday Things, and be fascinated by it.
00:46:13
Speaker
I don't want to sound full of myself or anything, because everyone's different. But when I read it, I was like, yeah, this is normal to me. So I have to really understand that not everyone's going to think exactly like I do, and I can't get upset when they don't. And when he said, it's so important to stay even-keeled, it's hard, but I just feel better about it in the end. Yeah, and that's part of, again, working in design, period, but working in design in a larger corporation,
00:46:43
Speaker
you have to be able to explain design to non-designers. Like, okay, I've designed this flow. I think it's genius, but now I've got to get all of my stakeholders on board. And that's a skill right there to be able to communicate design well and to defend your design choices. And I think in even temperament, it makes that all the easier. Like you can't get too precious with your work. You can't get too,
00:47:09
Speaker
I don't know. To design in any setting is to design on a team. No designer exists. Very few designers exist on an island.
00:47:19
Speaker
I completely agree. And also, some people just aren't going to, again, think how you think. We have certain designs and experiences now that arguably don't look good design-wise. But if they make the company money, they're not going to change them despite what we think. So I think that's another thing that's pushed, like understand the business of UX. It's just, even though the best experience is the best,
00:47:47
Speaker
at the end of the day, it's like, does this make the company money? And that is just a reality. But we are coming up on time. And I would love to know, Katie, what is next for you? Well, as I mentioned, I'm now mentoring on ADP list, which I don't know where I would be without the incredible knowledge that more experienced designers shared with me when I was starting out on the field. So it was very important to me to pay it forward. So
00:48:17
Speaker
I know I'm still a UX baby considering how long some people have been in the field, but I'm focusing on specifically career switchers and people who are new to the industry hoping to land that first job. And it's been such a rewarding experience. I can't even tell you, like just again, to be able to pass on that good juju and to be as selfless with my time, energy and knowledge as people were with me.
00:48:43
Speaker
It means so much to me. So really that's what I'm focusing on moving forward. And yeah, I can't wait to see, I can't wait to see where it takes me. I can't wait to see where it takes you either. And, um, for those listening, we are going to put Katie's link to ADP list in our. Footnotes for this episode. So you can reach out to her that way. And then are you open to people reaching out to you on LinkedIn? Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. Find me ADP list or LinkedIn, Katie Blomber.
00:49:11
Speaker
Blumbers B-L-U-M-B-E-R-H.
00:49:15
Speaker
Fantastic. And we'll put those links, like I said, in the footnotes. And again, Katie, thank you so much for your time and sharing your story. I am, on a personal, just so proud of how far you've come. And it really is just like a whoa moment. Like you reached out as a student, and now here you are practicing UX at a major corporation. You know, that's not nothing. That's so impressive.
00:49:41
Speaker
It's just great to see you thriving. Oh, and thanks in part to you, Alyssa. And thank you so much for having me today. This conversation has been such a blast.
00:49:50
Speaker
It really has. Obviously, people are going to listen to this whenever, but we're recording this. We started at 8 a.m. this morning, so pretty early. And yes, again, thank you so much for your time and sharing your story. And again, for those listening, if you have any questions for Katie or myself that you'd like to have answered on a future episode, please email me at alumnipodcast at springboard.com.