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Every Story Ever: February 2025
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We finally get around to the Kevin Conroy/J.Bone story "Finding Batman" from DC Pride on this special, and rank plenty more to boot!
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Transcript
Introduction to Zencaster
00:00:00
Speaker
This show is recorded using Zencaster. If you are a podcaster, or you want to be a podcaster, and you want to be able to record remotely, you can do so using Zencaster.
00:00:12
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00:00:28
Speaker
Glorious, huh?
Introducing War Rocket Ajax Podcast
00:00:42
Speaker
What we're doing is we're taking lists from our listeners of three comic book stories, and then we are placing those stories on the list from best to worst comic book stories of all time.
00:01:01
Speaker
Hello, everybody, and welcome to the War Rocket Ajax podcast. Every Story Ever Special for February 2025. two thousand twenty five My name is Matt Wilson.
Lack of Standard Introduction
00:01:14
Speaker
Chris Sims is here with me, as always, to write comic book stories. There he is. Here I am. i Here's the problem, Matt. We don't have, like, a standard introduction for a lot of things.
00:01:31
Speaker
So i never it's never clear when one of us says, like, you know I'm here with with Chris or I'm here with Matt. Like, it's never really clear if we're so if that's tossing it to the other person.
00:01:43
Speaker
For me, it usually is. I know when we do regular Ajax shows, we go straight into your question for me. Yes, I introduce it and i and i I answer a question that I then pose to you.
00:01:57
Speaker
Right, I... For Every Story Ever, typically, i am I am just asking you to check in at the top, because people want to hear your beautiful voice.
Ranking Comic Book Stories
00:02:06
Speaker
Why, thank you, Matt.
00:02:09
Speaker
Thank you. I've been singing along to a lot of country music in the car, so I don't feel like my voice is very beautiful at all. But ah i am comparing it to George Jones, so that may be unfair.
00:02:23
Speaker
What we do on this show... As I'm sure most of you listening know, and especially since I described it years ago now in the intro, we rank comic book stories from best to worst on a very large, ever-expanding, although it did shrink last month, list of what we call the Every Story Ever list, list of comics.
00:02:51
Speaker
Currently there are
00:02:55
Speaker
1,587 entries on the Every Story Ever our list. chris I also have that number. Good. Chris, would you like to quickly go over the state of the Every Story Ever list as it stands?
00:03:10
Speaker
Sure, Matt. ah Everyone knows what's it at number one and number 1,587 right right now And if you don't, you can go back and listen to any other episode and we'll tell you. I mean, those have been in place pretty hard. The top ten has been locked pretty hard for a long time.
Listener Questions and Top Comics Discussion
00:03:31
Speaker
I had someone ask the Ajax Blue Sky account when we ranked Identity Crisis at the bottom.
00:03:44
Speaker
And I was like, it's been there since the beginning, baby. Day one. it It's just me, Oose. Day one-ish. ah So what I'd like to do right now is give you just a quick rundown of the round numbers.
00:03:59
Speaker
Just so everybody kind of knows where we're at. If you want to read 15 comics that'll give you the breadth and depth of the comics reading experience, here's what you do. Number one.
00:04:11
Speaker
Uh, number 100, Usagi Ojimbo circles. That's a good ass comic. Yeah. The top 100 is full of good ass comics. Uh, number 200 is, uh, the Sandman, not the one you're thinking, uh, the seal men's war on Santa Claus by Michael Fleischer and Jack Kirby. Uh, one of the few Christmas stories that Jack Kirby drew.
00:04:33
Speaker
Uh, that one's really fun.
Milestone Comics and Their Significance
00:04:35
Speaker
ah Number 300, Fantastic Four Into the Time Stream by Walt Simonson. that's That's good comics.
00:04:44
Speaker
ah Number 400 is new X-Men Murder at the Mansion. That's got Mutant Detective Lucas Bishop in it. Number 500 is Captain America and the Falcon, Secret Empire by ah Steve Englehart.
00:05:02
Speaker
That's... I mean, this... I was... only kind of half-joking, this kind of is a good overview of everything that the comics will we have read are. 600. New X-Men is for Extinction.
00:05:20
Speaker
ah Number 700. Bram Stoker's Dracula by Roy Thomas, Mike Mignola, and Nyberg. a a A wild comic to exist.
00:05:35
Speaker
ah ah Truly in intense and strange crew to have made that comic. Yeah. it's Honestly, the sheer value of there being a Roy Thomas and Mike Mignola collaboration at all, let alone the comic book adaptation of Francis Ford Coppola's Bram Stoker's Dracula, incredible.
00:06:01
Speaker
makes you love the Makes you love the medium.
Cultural Context of Comics
00:06:04
Speaker
At number 800, Amazing Spider-Man New Ways to Die by Dan Slott and John Romita Jr. That's where Anti-Venom shows up. We're getting into the real second half of the list now ah with number 900, Mouse Guard Winter 1152. That's a pretty good comic.
00:06:21
Speaker
Yeah, it's as we've said many times, it's a top-heavy list. ah At number 1000, the first of the quad digits is Superboy's Big Brother from Superboy number 89. That's the first appearance of Mon-El.
00:06:35
Speaker
And number 1100, we've got Uncanny X-Men number 101 to 103. That's ah the Phoenix showing up, though and also Leprechauns of Cassidy Keep.
00:06:52
Speaker
Same story. Same story, folks. Both of those happened in the same comic book. At number 1200, The Last Calvin and Hobbes strip. It's a bummer. At number 1300 is Batman Contagion with the clench.
00:07:10
Speaker
y'all Y'all remember the c clench. ah At 1400 is Spawn number 10. That's the Alan Moore issue. Yeah. ah And at number 1500, where we're really getting into the dregs... Wait, no. Spawn number 10 is not the Alan Moore issue.
00:07:30
Speaker
Is spawn number 10 one that should be deleted from the list? No. Oh, that's the Dave Sim issue. Spawn number 10 is the one with Cerebus in it. yeah Yeah, that's the Dave Sim issue. No wonder. yeah yeah well Number 1500 is Death of the New Gods by Jim Starlin from 2008.
00:07:51
Speaker
One of the roughest years of DC Comics. that's bad That's bad stuff. Will we get to number 1600 tonight? We'll find out. I think... Well, we've got to rank 13 comics to do it. so So let's get it going. I'm going to drag my feet, baby.
00:08:11
Speaker
So first, Chris, before we started recording, you read a comic that we were submitted, i don't know, a month or two ago, that we said that we were going to, that you were going to read and then we were going to rank.
00:08:31
Speaker
So let's do that now. This was the story from the DC Pride special from 2022, written by Kevin Conroy with art by J-Bone.
00:08:46
Speaker
called Finding Batman. Yes. which Which is about Kevin Conroy getting to a low point in his career and then getting the offer to do Batman the Animated Series.
00:09:03
Speaker
Matt, I've got a couple things that I want to say about this comic. First of all, all good it's good. It's really good, yeah. yeah oh The first thing that really occurred to me when I was reading this, is, boy, J-Bone draws young Kevin Conroy as a fucking hunk. As a major hunk, yes.
00:09:25
Speaker
And I don't think he doesn't deserve it. Like, if you've seen young Kevin Conroy, he's a hunk. ah But there's a he looks like Captain America in some of these panels. like ah it's It's good stuff.
00:09:45
Speaker
um The second thing is, and ah this is just me being curious about your experience, when did you find out Kevin Conroy was gay?
00:09:56
Speaker
I don't know. It was certainly in adulthood.
00:10:03
Speaker
But not recently. it's I found out a while ago, like before I met him, and that was at San Diego Comic-Con the year I went, which I think was 2014? So so was before that.
00:10:26
Speaker
But I don't know exactly the exact time. You almost certainly knew before I did. okay I did not know he was gay when I met him, which was maybe at that same San Diego.
00:10:40
Speaker
Yeah, maybe. oh I think I did know before he died, but it was not long before he died. ah It was just, you know, like... a thing I had never known or paused to consider because, you know, like to me, he was just Batman.
00:10:59
Speaker
Like to me, Kevin Conroy was Batman. Like, I'm sure he got that all the time, but I did tell him that when I met him, it's like, yeah, like you're you're the guy who lives in my head.
00:11:10
Speaker
Like when I, when I read these things that are my favorite thing, it's, it's you. And he was like, I'm in your mind. Which was an incredible moment. He also told me I was Batman's best friend.
00:11:24
Speaker
that's ah That's incredible. ah You did like an interview with him, right? Yes. Like a video interview? i remember that. Yes, in advance of... I think it was in advance of Arkham City, even. Yeah.
00:11:38
Speaker
I remember talking to him for Lego Batman... I think it was Lego Batman 3. And...
00:11:48
Speaker
and And so so, like, it was one of those say Comic-Con pressers where, like, you go sit at a table and the voice actors and people come to you and sit at your table for, like, ten minutes.
00:12:09
Speaker
And you ask them questions. Everybody at your table asks them questions until their time is up and they leave. And so Kevin Conroy did one of those. And that was the same thing where um Adam West hit was there, and he was talking to ah bunch of like video TV people for a long time.
00:12:33
Speaker
And I had kept looking back to see when Adam West was going to come over and talk to us, or if he was going to do that at all. And Adam West, after he finally finished up with his TV people, a lot of the print and online reporters had left.
00:12:51
Speaker
And so there was really just one table of us left. And Adam West came over and he put his hands on my shoulders. And he just went, I'm here. Incredible. and And he sat down next to me and took questions for until we stopped.
00:13:09
Speaker
like I had to leave before he was even done because I had to check out of the hotel.
00:13:16
Speaker
But like yeah he just sat there and answered questions. for It was amazing. It was an amazing experience. Mine was for Arkham City because I remember it was like a line.
00:13:27
Speaker
And you would just have a few minutes of yeah literally Kevin Conroy for three minutes, Stonicotic for three minutes. I don't know who else was there. oh But, ah yeah, click very nice. I just, you know, it's... it ah AC often accuses me of being um uninterested in other people.
00:13:50
Speaker
And that's not true. It's just that I talk to other people about the things that we have in common, which is usually, like...
00:14:02
Speaker
like the common pop culture interest that we have. And when I talk to Batman, i have Batman questions. Sure. So yeah, like I didn't know until ah like very like fairly... i'm Like i said, I'm almost sure that I knew before he died.
00:14:25
Speaker
But i it wasn't that long before. And i I knew when this comic came out. um yeah Well, he died. This comic came out in 2022, and then he died not long after its release.
00:14:42
Speaker
Yeah. um In my memory, he died before this was released, but I don't think that's true, because he died in November of 2022, so it was a few months later. Yeah, because this would have been June of 2022? Yeah.
00:15:01
Speaker
Ostensibly, yeah. yeah um But, like, I don't think when I learned he was gay that it was particularly ceremonious. I think it was just something where, like, I happened to be poking around his Wikipedia page.
00:15:17
Speaker
Yeah. And it's like, oh, Kevin Conner is gay. And I'm like, oh, okay. yeah Yeah. ah Yeah. Other than, like, I do remember thinking, like, Man, it's honestly kind of cool that ah that Batman was gay for 30 years and none of us knew.
00:15:32
Speaker
like that's yeah Like, that's pretty pretty fun. And it's it's a wild full circle on the seduction of the innocent of it all, isn't it? Yeah. yeah ah But, like, I bring all this up because it is interesting. There is a moment where he's like...
00:15:53
Speaker
Yeah, i I wanted to keep my private life private, and I i kept that quiet professionally. Kevin Conroy was not doing GLAAD Awards.
00:16:09
Speaker
i I don't know if the GLAAD Awards existed in 1992, which is when I would have started paying attention to Kevin Conroy when I was 10. Yeah. But, ah like again, it wasn't something that was you know publicized, I guess. um They did. They existed. I think they were a very different event then, much less publicly accepted.
00:16:34
Speaker
ah But they've been around for 36 years, think. Yeah. Yeah. ah But yeah, like getting this perspective on it, and I have read this story before. had just forgotten that I'd read it. I realized today as I was rereading it that I ah he had read it probably when it came out. um like it It's an interesting perspective. like it's Because it really does dovetail into him going in and...
00:17:07
Speaker
and you know, got Alan Burnett and Paul Dini and Bruce Timm in there, being like, yeah, so this guy leads a double life, ah and he's he's, you know, kind of fueled by this rage at how he's been treated by the world.
00:17:26
Speaker
Is that something you think you can relate And Kevin Connery's like, yeah, I got it. I think I'm good. it's It's really interesting, right? Because, like,
00:17:39
Speaker
I think that there's a sense that the art world, the acting world, the performing world, the world of theater is one where it is not safe, but safer be LGBTQIA+.
00:18:01
Speaker
Right? Yes. Right. yes
00:18:04
Speaker
And this story presents a reality where, at least at this time, in the 80s and ninety s it wasn't at all safe.
00:18:17
Speaker
and Or at least Kevin Conroy's experience was that it was not safe. And so he hid his sexuality for as long as he could. any time it came up,
00:18:31
Speaker
in terms of an audition or in terms of just people knowing on set. Or there's one particular instance where he does a movie and he's told on the set of this movie, hey, I got this other project that I think you're good for.
00:18:49
Speaker
I'm going to talk to this producer. And so like just hang out by the phone for a few days and we'll get back to you. And he was planning on flying across the country To see his brother.
00:19:04
Speaker
And then when he finally does... he and So he's calling because he's like, I gotta go. I gotta leave. So can i can you tell me what's up? And when he finally gets a call back, it's like, oh yeah, they're not gonna work with you. And this whole network is never gonna work with you.
00:19:20
Speaker
And it's like, such a punch to the gut. And such a like... Wow, it was ingrained even... In this business where you might think there was a more inclusive perspective, but there was not. Yeah, there's... like Homophobia, transphobia, and racism are never not stupid, right?
00:19:51
Speaker
yeah Yeah. There's no situation in which it's not... like obviously and demonstrably awful to hold those beliefs. But I'm always like even more mystified whenever I hear about an actor or ah like a like a a professional women's soccer player who is like, I don't like gay people.
00:20:20
Speaker
Because I'm like, wait but you know! Like, how? like
00:20:27
Speaker
like the these are the people that you're around all the time. Yeah, and and especially for actors where the whole job is the ability to think like somebody else for a little while. Yes!
00:20:40
Speaker
Yeah. It's it's maddening. And, I mean, if it's maddening for me, and I'm a dinner straight white dude from you know straight white cis guy, oh then I can only imagine what it's like for someone like Kevin Conroy to Have people just like like ah toss off like slurs in a way that like like he says in here, he's like, I don't know. A guy says, like oh, hey, it's the the F slur.
00:21:17
Speaker
ah Get over here and have a drink. And it's like, is that guy trying to like you know, be like good natured ribbing that just like, you don't know me like that. Or is that guy a homophobe? Cause like, you know, the Kevin Conner's reaction in the story is, Oh, do I, do I laugh this off? Do I say, Hey, that's not fucking cool. Like he is, is also kind of like at a loss of what to do, but it is like, it is for him just a reminder of being othered and which sucks.
00:21:51
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, and and and I think the point is, whatever the intent, you don't know. Yeah. Like, you don't know what the intent behind the use of the slur is.
00:22:06
Speaker
You just know that you've been called the slur yeah just now. and And the slurs are in the in the comic uncensored, in a DC comic. Yeah. And it's got, like, this comic actually has, like...
00:22:20
Speaker
an advisory page before it. yeah Because it's like, hey, this book is a celebration, this is you know the Pride comic, but Kevin Conroy did a story about like his real life, and you know this it might not feel celebratory to see those, but you know it's it's his struggle and his life.
00:22:47
Speaker
And And I actually think that the use of the slurs,
00:22:53
Speaker
like it wouldn't be his true experience without them. Yeah. And like I think if you're going to allow the use of those types of words in a story, this would be the time where it's like to show the impact that those kinds of words actually have on people. Yeah.
00:23:16
Speaker
yeah In a real setting, in a real sense. You know what I'm saying? yeah Like...
00:23:25
Speaker
like it it's Like you said, it's it's it is a testament to how like sheltered I grew up and you know the the kind of specific time but that I grew up and the privilege that I have.
00:23:46
Speaker
but like That's shocking to me. like it yeah but that so You could just lob that at fucking Batman. At this hunk with the coolest voice ever.
00:24:02
Speaker
Yeah, you you sent me a... ah ah Looks like a headshot. ah It's from when he was on Dynasty. yeah from Yeah, from that time period. And it's like, that dude's a hunk.
00:24:14
Speaker
Holy moly, that dude's a j jbo wasn't J-Bone wasn't elaborating in this. It's just, my dude's a hunk.
00:24:27
Speaker
yeah But yeah, I think it's a really, really, really good story. And... ah
00:24:36
Speaker
like For better or worse, the most memorable story I've read in a DC anthology book, any DC anthology book, in a decade.
00:24:49
Speaker
Yeah. Or more. Yeah.
00:24:55
Speaker
So, where do we put it? I mean, look, to be entirely fair, it it is a memorable story from a DC anthology book. also just by dint of being a a celebrity that we like who then passed away shortly after. There's also that to consider.
00:25:20
Speaker
But I mean, like you know it's a good story. like it's the The way that it all dovetails and the way that it all comes together and the way that... you know ah Kevin Conroy, who was was not familiar with Batman, ah you know as familiar as anyone would be in 1992 after you know a hit movie and oh Adam West's continued pop culture presence, like ah but not familiar with Batman and had never done voice acting before, as as him explaining, here's why I got it.
00:25:59
Speaker
like Here's why I got it immediately and then was amazing at it and then also stuck with it for 30 years. Yeah. ah It really, like, you could call the story why I was so good at being Batman. Yeah.
00:26:17
Speaker
And it you it would not be inaccurate. Yeah.
00:26:25
Speaker
Yeah. Uh, it's, it's good. It's good.
00:26:30
Speaker
Uh, Like...
00:26:36
Speaker
Like, top 200 good? Like, top 500 good? Like, what are thinking? I think it's probably... It's definitely top 500 good.
00:26:48
Speaker
Yeah. This is quite a top-heavy list. That is true. But, I mean... I'm not putting this one below Fables Volume 1, that's for sure.
00:27:00
Speaker
I think that is... Correct and true and good. Yeah. oh I mean, it's
00:27:10
Speaker
it's... It's... These are the questions we have... this is the This is the damnation that we have brought to ourselves. Is this better than Devil Dinosaur?
00:27:25
Speaker
Because look... Devil Dinosaur does not have the personal resonance that this story has. It also kicks ass. Where is that on the list? Devil Dinosaur is at ah number 298.
00:27:53
Speaker
There's always the going out the door test, right? Uh-huh. And... This story is very good. it is also extremely heavy. It's heavy. And if there is a reason and a time and a good excuse to be heavy and a little bit sad, i think this is it.
00:28:16
Speaker
But i think we do have to take that into account. And as such, I think it's not as good as Devil Dinosaur, but above Howard the Duck, which we have at number 299. I would absolutely agree with that.
00:28:33
Speaker
Okay. And again, i cannot stress enough, this is a top-heavy list. Being the new number 299 is good. Yeah. And I put in parentheses Kevin Conroy, DC Pride 2022, next to Finding Batman.
00:28:52
Speaker
Alright, here we go. Finding Batman.
00:28:56
Speaker
Kevin Conroy and Kevin the Hunk Conroy. And Joseph Bone. Joseph Joseph Bone.
00:29:10
Speaker
All right. Now that we've done that, now that we've reviewed that comic, and that took us almost 30 minutes of this episode, so I don't think we're getting to 1600. Well, Matt, it was important to talk about. It is It is. it i i I did not say anything otherwise and would not.
00:29:29
Speaker
It is an important story to talk about.
00:29:32
Speaker
We need now to finish the list that we started last month from Rocket Whistle of Karl Barks' duck stories. Alright, back to the back to the the the comics minds.
00:29:47
Speaker
Back to the duck minds.
00:29:50
Speaker
The third story on Rocket's list is The Second Richest Duck, which is from Uncle Scrooge number 15, which is the first appearance of- motherfucker, Flintheart Glomgold. Flintheart Glomgold.
00:30:03
Speaker
It's so hard to say. You know what? Fuck Flintheart Glomgold, the South African billionaire who's fucking with our boy.
00:30:15
Speaker
it is so hard to read this story and not think about- That time that ah the fucking Elon Musk and Mark Zuckerberg were going to have a fight.
00:30:33
Speaker
Look, look, I like either of those dudes. Yeah. I will say Zuck would have dismantled him.
00:30:46
Speaker
but but it's It's that fucking Key and Peele sketch. that's why That's why Musk was like, oh, my back. I can't do it because of my back. Yeah. It's like, then shut your fucking mouth.
00:30:58
Speaker
like I'm not like saying he could beat a lot of people in a fight or like that he's cooler. I'm saying there's nothing behind his eyes. Well, also, he has had, like, jujitsu training.
00:31:13
Speaker
Yes. And Elon Musk just lies. Yeah. Like, he he would have, like with like, eyes open, mouth closed, broken all of his fingers. Like, it's, like...
00:31:29
Speaker
It would not have been would have been hard to watch. I wish it would have happened. I wish it would have too. I would have watched it. It was never going to happen. Absolutely not.
00:31:41
Speaker
Yeah. ah So, here's what happens in the story. Also, say fuck you for comparing Scrooge McDuck to Zuck. Look... I'm not saying the the story invites comparison, because this is about Scrooge.
00:32:00
Speaker
Well, first, Donald is like, hey, I'm going downtown. I'm going to go buy an ice cream soda. And Scrooge is like, why are you doing that? Don't do that.
00:32:10
Speaker
Save your money. Why would you go but buy a treat for yourself? why you Why are you getting that avocado toast, nephew? Yeah. don't Don't go buy a soda. Save your money. Look at all the money I have.
00:32:22
Speaker
and And also look at my giant ball of string. If you don't save your money and you go buy sodas, then you won't have any of this. Uncle Scrooge says that he should take his 25 cents and invest it, and it'll become 50 cents.
00:32:34
Speaker
Yeah. And I'm like, boy, 1955 was a hell of a time. And then you can take that 50 cents and buy a house and a new car. You can go to college.
00:32:48
Speaker
So Scrooge reveals that he does not buy newspapers. And instead, he goes to the park and finds newspapers that people have thrown away.
00:33:00
Speaker
And so he sees a newspaper from a couple days ago, and it reports that Flintheart Glomgold, the South African billionaire – South African mine owner – mine owner – is now the richest duck in the world.
00:33:18
Speaker
And Scrooge is like, that can't be right. That can't can't possibly be right. If I'm not the richest duck in the world, what's the point of living?
00:33:27
Speaker
right, look.
00:33:29
Speaker
I love Scrooge McDuck. Sometimes his motivations are not the best. So he goes to his accountant, and he says... what how much How much money do I actually have?
00:33:42
Speaker
And the accountant tells him $9,623,62. Scrooge like, and i am still the richest.
00:33:53
Speaker
I am still the richest. Let's go to South Africa and rub it in Glomgold's face. So they get on a boat and go to South Africa. And they meet Glomgold on the boat and see that he has a giant ball of string, too.
00:34:09
Speaker
But it isn't until they get to South Africa and go to Glomgold's money bin, which is the same money bin but just has a pound symbol on it.
00:34:18
Speaker
ah Which I guess is funny. Even though I don't think that's South African currency. I mean, I do like the... I do like... Stuff like this and stuff like um ah like the Wayne Foundation building having a giant quarter.
00:34:38
Speaker
yeah in the lobby, and like the the the knight and squire having like a giant shilling in their knight cave. like I like shit like that.
00:34:50
Speaker
i like A giant money bin that's just like Scrooge's money bin, but it's a different symbol because it's a different kind of money. That's that's funny to me. Yeah, the only problem is that, I mean, maybe at this time, South Africa did have pounds, but well that is not... Bitcoin symbol hadn't been invented yet.
00:35:07
Speaker
Well, it should be ah it should be a symbol for Rans, but I don't know what that symbol is. ah Anyway, ah
00:35:19
Speaker
Glomgold and Scrooge just get into a huge fight, a war of words over who owns more businesses and who has more money, and so on and so forth.
00:35:33
Speaker
And... they're at stalemate. They cannot decide who is richer. So the way that they say that they're going to determine who is richer is whoever has the longest ball of string.
00:35:46
Speaker
And they're going to go outside and they're going to unroll their balls of string to see whose is the longest. Which ah results into situations with um deadly ants and locusts And ah thorns.
00:36:06
Speaker
And all kinds of like happenstance. Hijinx, yeah. Hijinx. There's ah there's ah an animal stampede at one point. And on and on and on.
00:36:20
Speaker
ah Finally, they unraveled their balls of string completely. And ah Scrooges...
00:36:33
Speaker
is ah not the longest. they're They're exactly the same length. But then Scrooge has a piece of string in his pocket with his first dime on it.
00:36:49
Speaker
and Old number one. And so he is declared the richest duck. I...
00:37:02
Speaker
This can't be the first appearance of the number one dime. I don't think so. I think it was there before this. But ah but scrooge it ends with Scrooge saying to Donald, you see, Donald, what joyous saving can bring to a person, what power, what satisfaction, what's stirring victories?
00:37:18
Speaker
And Donald goes, maybe still, Uncle Scrooge, but I'm still going to take a cool a tall, cool soda. I'm going to get an iPhone and some avocado toast, Uncle Scrooge. That's right. And you know what?
00:37:28
Speaker
I hope Hooters goes out of business.
00:37:33
Speaker
I'm killing Hooters. oh Look, this is not my favorite Uncle Scrooge story. But fuck Flinhard Glomgold.
00:37:48
Speaker
Karl Marx knew back then that these fucking ultra-rich South African ah and made their money on apartheid assholes were going to be a problem.
00:38:02
Speaker
Yeah. And he was right. Has Flint Hart always been South African ever since this? Yes. Because i think I feel like in the I mean, you know, I'm talking about DuckTales here.
00:38:24
Speaker
Yeah. Which is not the same thing. buddy. oh I'm sorry. I'm looking around. sure Don's not here. Don hears you talking that shit. I know. I know.
00:38:36
Speaker
If on the DuckTales reboot show, Flinthart was on that, and I think he was they made him Scottish.
00:38:48
Speaker
But in comics, he's always been South African. And they never changed it. He's certainly South African in like the in the Barks comics and the Rosa comics. I don't think when he showed up on...
00:39:03
Speaker
classic DuckTales, I don't think they ever specified that he was from anywhere. And he might have had like a Scottish accent. He did. i thought had He had a Scottish accent and he wore like a kilt. yeah and he he wears ah In this, he wears like a Tamashantir.
00:39:19
Speaker
so Right, yeah.
00:39:22
Speaker
But yeah. oh He's definitely... ah He went to South Africa to make money under apartheid. Oh, he sure did. yeah and It is fucking blood emerald mines.
00:39:38
Speaker
Fuck Flintheart Glomgold. That's how you fucking know, right? Because Flintheart Glomgold definitely is a Nepo baby.
00:39:50
Speaker
he likes like Say what you will about Uncle Scrooge McDuck. He grew up poor. Now, his family did have an ancestral castle, but life at the time that he grew up, they were they were poor.
00:40:09
Speaker
They were lower class.
00:40:12
Speaker
So, you know.
00:40:17
Speaker
Yeah, it's ah
00:40:21
Speaker
it's interesting. this This is an interesting story. I feel like stories like this are where Scrooge tends to come off at his worst. Yeah, I mean, when it's when it's when it's a story that's just about him being super rich, and that's the point of the story, that's not as good as, like, I've got to go get something.
00:40:47
Speaker
you know Oh, there's something valuable somewhere, I have to go get it. Right, an adventure. yeah and This is not an adventure, this is just... ah Not a literal deck measuring contest, but a certainly metaphorical one. no it's It's pretty, like, definitely symbolic. I mean, they're literally measuring the length of something. so Yeah.
00:41:08
Speaker
yeah So, yeah, it's I don't think it's as good as the other Scrooge stories we've recently discussed.
00:41:19
Speaker
Right. ah I do like, like, my ideal ah Flint Hart Glomgold story is that Flintheart Glomgold gets ah assassinated on the streets of New York City. um but the Or, or ah I guess, on the streets of Duckburg. Anywhere in Kalisota.
00:41:43
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Honestly. oh like Just have Gyro take him out. Gyro's gyro is little robot thing with the white bulb head...
00:41:55
Speaker
takes ah Whose name I forget takes out Flint Hart Clomgold. um But no, my ideal thing is like, Scrooge is like, he's like, yeah, i got more money than you, Scrooge. And Scrooge is like, okay, where'd you where'd you make this money?
00:42:11
Speaker
And he's like, don't know. Scrooge like, okay, well, you're a dipshit, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. Like, yeah, like, okay. You didn't actually make it.
00:42:23
Speaker
like You didn't actually earn it. i have you know all of Every coin in my buddy bin has a story, and you're just a rich asshole who wants everybody to think he's good at video games. And no one does.
00:42:36
Speaker
Right. Don't spend your money on a soda, but pay somebody to play your video games for you. Yeah.
00:42:44
Speaker
I can't believe that episode of The Simpsons that has Flinhart Glomgold on it. like that That's regrettable, you know?
00:42:53
Speaker
Uh, alright, so at 821, we put the Magic Hourglass at 821. I think this is not as good as that. I think it's not as good as that either. We have the Land Beneath the Ground at number 832. Land Beneath the Ground is pretty good. Yeah. I mean, it's, you know, it's, again, it it it did the Raiders of the Lost Ark gag. It's the inspiration for that.
00:43:17
Speaker
Uh, Adventure Down Under, the Donald Duck story, is at 1349. This does not have anything
00:43:30
Speaker
offensive besides the notion of a South African billionaire in it. No, so it's definitely above Voodoo Hoodoo. It's definitely above that and and Adventure Down Under.
00:43:42
Speaker
ah So where do we have Voodoo Hoodoo? Like the 1500s. Oh, so that's even lower. Okay, yeah.
00:43:52
Speaker
ah So I'm going to say this is like 900s or 1000s, maybe? ah Let's see. i mean, it ain't as good as what we have at 1070. That's Wild Dog by Max Allen Collins and Terry Beatty.
00:44:07
Speaker
Okay, that's that is pretty good, yeah. Yeah, that shit. Hey, everybody talks about terrorism. He does something about it. That's true. That's true. Fucking, they should just do a season of Reacher based on Wild Dog 1 through 4.
00:44:22
Speaker
This is better than that peanut strip where so Spike killed a rabbit. For sure.
00:44:33
Speaker
Is it better than the first appearance of the Skrulls, which we have at 1079? Skrulls get turned into cows? And that's funny. That is funny, yeah. And then they are later turned into hamburgers and eaten.
00:44:47
Speaker
Is it better or worse than Legends of the Dark Knight 1-5
00:44:52
Speaker
I would say it's better than Shaman. Alright, so this is the new number 1080. It's the new number 1080 snowboarding. ah Uncle Scrooge, the second richest duck, I believe is what this story is called.
00:45:08
Speaker
Yes, the second richest duck.
00:45:13
Speaker
First appearance, not first and but first appearance of One Heart Clomgold. And that's in Uncle Scrooge number 15.
00:45:22
Speaker
Okay. That wraps up that list from Rocket. Thank you for sending in that list, Rocket. Michael Haida has two lists for us to choose from.
00:45:35
Speaker
One is a don rosa du is a Don Rosa Duck list.
00:45:41
Speaker
And the other one is ah Ahoy Comics.
00:45:46
Speaker
Gosh, i I want to get away from the ducks, but there's a lot of good Ahoy stuff that I haven't read.
00:45:53
Speaker
Yeah, i I think I read one of the three in the Ahoy Comics list. Well, duck it, man. We're going to duck it?
00:46:03
Speaker
We're going to duck it. All right. First is Donald Duck Master Landscapist from Donald Duck Adventures number 22.
00:46:17
Speaker
Have not read it. Okay. Okay. How about Donald Duck Mythological Menagerie from Walt Disney's Comics and Stories, number 523? Haven't read it.
00:46:29
Speaker
Donald Duck The Lost Charts of Columbus from Donald Duck Adventures, number 43? Haven't read it. Alright, you want to go to the Ahoy Comics list? Ahoy Comics list it is! yeah All first is The Wrong Earth, Volume 2, Night and Day, by Tom Pyre and Jamal Igle.
00:46:46
Speaker
Okay, I definitely read all of Volume 1. I don't think I finished Volume 2, but it is – it's just one that i I fell off of for no reason, and I should read that.
00:46:57
Speaker
I would like to catch up on on The Wrong Earth. I don't know why we didn't get the – why Michael didn't send The Wrong Earth, Volume 1. I think we might have already ranked it. Have we ranked it already?
00:47:10
Speaker
ah right. right.
00:47:12
Speaker
Let's see. We did. We ranked Volume 1. It is at number 687. So that answered my question. Second on Michael's list, this is the one I have read.
00:47:24
Speaker
Second Coming Volume 2, Unly Begotten Son by Mark Russell, Richard Pace, and Leonard Kirk. I have not read Volume 2. Again, I did read Volume 1.
00:47:35
Speaker
we We ranked Second Coming Volume 1. It's at number 482.
00:47:41
Speaker
ah I am pretty sure I read Second Coming Volume 2.
00:47:47
Speaker
Let me make sure.
00:47:55
Speaker
Let's see.
00:48:01
Speaker
Oh yeah, I remember reading this.
00:48:05
Speaker
It's very much ah continuation of the Well, it's...
00:48:16
Speaker
Is it maybe a slapstick book with a little bit of a hard satirical edge?
00:48:22
Speaker
By Mark Russell? I know. ah but i think the The idea of the book, ah now that I'm looking at it and reminding myself of it,
00:48:40
Speaker
is
00:48:43
Speaker
continuing the Superman-Jesus allegory.
00:48:49
Speaker
ah Sunstar is the Superman analog in Second Coming. It's a lot about Sunstar's origin. Okay. And how his origin is very similar to Jesus's. Okay.
00:49:08
Speaker
Okay.
00:49:10
Speaker
While also having some of the kind of like present day Christ allegory humor about the kind of like commodification of religion, which there was a lot of in the first series as well.
00:49:28
Speaker
And with that in mind, like I remember reading this and I'm being like, yeah, that was as good as the first one, which kind of makes me want to just put this in with Second Coming Volume 1.
00:49:42
Speaker
Do... Is that a choice you feel confident about? Yes. Okay. i I think it is equally as good and kind of just a and kind of like fully a continuation of the original.
00:50:04
Speaker
like So we we just want to amend the current listing. Yes, amend the current listing to just say second kind coming volume one and two.
00:50:16
Speaker
Because
00:50:19
Speaker
i don i don't think I would rank it any differently than the first volume. Okay. In terms of quality, in terms of art, in terms of ah presentation and kind of satirical edge.
00:50:34
Speaker
it's all exactly on par with the first volume. Well, having not read it, Matt, I cede this decision to you, and I have made the adjustments on the spreadsheet.
00:50:46
Speaker
Okay. I know it's not exciting to not add a new list listing, but I think it is more than appropriate to just put Second Coming Volume 2, Only Begotten Son, in with the first volume, because it is of equal quality...
00:51:04
Speaker
And a a true continuation of the first volume ah for me. so ah Finally on Michael's list is Billionaire Island, Volume 1, by Mark Russell and Steve Pugh.
00:51:21
Speaker
Now, I did read Billionaire Island. And let let me tell you something, buddy. You know what I call Billionaire Island? A true dream fantasy?
00:51:33
Speaker
A good start.
00:51:36
Speaker
The only thing that i would be leery about ranking this one with is that there is a sequel called Billionaire Island Cult of Dogs. And that's Billionaire Island, but with more dogs in it.
00:51:50
Speaker
Well, I think we can do something similar with that. Where if somebody submits Billionaire Island Vol. 2, and we have read it by then...
00:52:03
Speaker
And we so we're like, it's just as good. we can then you know We can then just put them all in the same entry.
00:52:16
Speaker
Alright. all right So, Billionaire Island, for those of you who don't know, it's a bit of slapstick comedy with a dark satirical edge.
00:52:33
Speaker
taking some real shots at, you're never going to believe this. Capitalism. Wow. Wow. ah it's ah It's great, though.
00:52:44
Speaker
It's excellent. It's by Mark Russell and ah Steve Pugh. Steve Pugh, yeah. ah Who does a great job with the kind of comedy acting art. it's like It's like a weird... Steve Pugh's art in this is like Kevin Nolan doing...
00:53:03
Speaker
King of the Hill. Yes, it's also like, there were a good number of like celebrity caricatures in it.
00:53:14
Speaker
So it is like barely a step away from Mad Magazine art. Yeah, it's it's very... but it's It's good.
00:53:25
Speaker
It's good stuff. ah But I mean that in the best possible way. Yeah. ah There is an island where billionaires have gone ah to ride out the end of the world, and ah people who are non-billionaires did not appreciate that ah due to some other actions that the ah billionaires pursued.
00:53:50
Speaker
One of my favorite things in it is that ah the splash page of the third issue is a megachurch called Church of Jesus Christ Businessman.
00:54:04
Speaker
ah hu and And it has a massive stained glass window of Jesus in like a tunic, but he's carrying a briefcase, wearing ah penny loafers, and ah there's a stock ticker on the awning of the church.
00:54:21
Speaker
that's That's the kind of subtlety that I go to Mark Russell for. That's a crossover with Second Coming. Yeah. Yeah. ah There is also a ah a dog that wears, like, ah power suit.
00:54:37
Speaker
Not like a but like an Iron Man suit, but like a business suit. And like a giant gold Rolex on his little dog arm.
00:54:48
Speaker
oh Yeah, the the bit with where they ah the journalists come to investigate Billionaire Island and they are put in a giant hamster cage ah and then every now and then just a bunch of money will fall from the ceiling and so they'll never stop fighting each other.
00:55:03
Speaker
It's... Mark Russell's gift is to do the least subtle social commentary but still make it good.
00:55:12
Speaker
We participated in a genocide, Barney. Yeah, yeah.
00:55:20
Speaker
Yeah, man. Like, God, when the president shows up and he's like... He's like Kid Rock, right? It's Kid Rock!
00:55:32
Speaker
Yeah. oh It's... and Jesus. um Yeah, man. I mean, look, it's not my favorite Mark Russell thing. That's still Flintstones.
00:55:45
Speaker
Flintstones is still one of the best comics that has ever been published. Flintstones is great. I also have a really big soft spot for the Snaggletooth or Snagglepuss comic bit. yeah i And I mean, like, Prez is also really good. Yeah. like the We put the Snagglepuss comic at 65 because that's Mark Russell doing
00:56:11
Speaker
the typical, like, Mark Russell hard-edge satire thing, but with... more heart than in any other Mark Russell story.
00:56:23
Speaker
like it's more I feel like if there's more meaning behind it than even Flintstones. It is right above Flintstones. Flintstones is a book that I had to like put down and go take a walk and think about some things. Yeah, it is one of those, for sure. Fred talks about the reasons he got married, when he's like...
00:56:46
Speaker
when he's talking about love and he's like, is it love or is it just that I don't want to die alone? That's like, I had to like skip a stone about that.
00:57:01
Speaker
And fairly so. Fairly so. yeah I mean, Flintstones deals with some heavy stuff that you don't expect it to, but Snagglepuss feels like a real working through of emotions.
00:57:15
Speaker
And so, That's why I think ultimately it's above it, but only one spot. But yeah, I don't think this is as good as either of those. ah Although I've only kind of like – I think I read an issue or two of Billionaire Island and skimmed through the rest. So you will be taking the reins on the ah ranking on this one for the most part.
00:57:37
Speaker
I mean, look, it's it's good. I think Mark Russell is is one of those creators who generally, was going to say always, but like I can't think of a time when Mark Russell has worked with an artist who at you know at the very least everybody he works with gets it and they're all good.
00:57:59
Speaker
like yeah I haven't seen him paired with an artist that doesn't work. So you know Steve Pugh's work in this is really good. ah Russell, I don't think, has... like I haven't read a bad Mark Russell comic.
00:58:15
Speaker
There's like a baseline of enjoyment in all of these. so i mean I don't think it's as good as Flintstones or Snagopus or Prez. ah but i mean Steve Pugh did draw Flintstones as well. so This is the return of that team.
00:58:34
Speaker
We've got ah but god we got Flintstones and Snaggapos are high. Flintstones and Snaggapos are number 66 and 65 on the list.
00:58:47
Speaker
They're both really good. They're good! ah This is not that good. But it's good. It's good. ah I don't think it's as good as... oh
00:59:01
Speaker
i don't think it's as good as... Well, was about to say, I don't think it's as good as the Fantastic Four, the new Fantastic Four. But it's, honestly, new Fantastic Four is also a bit of a slapstick comedy with a satirical edge.
00:59:14
Speaker
Just directed entirely at superhero comics. Right. In a way that's very different from, say, your Garth Senus.
00:59:23
Speaker
oh Fantastic Four Acts of Vengeance.
00:59:30
Speaker
I like this better than I liked Black Canary 2015.
00:59:35
Speaker
The Bren Fletcher, Annie Wu, P. Aguera book.
00:59:40
Speaker
A fun book. Yeah, good book. I mean, it's, again, the 500s is still pretty high. This a ranking of all comics that have ever been been printed, so. Sure. oh Matt, is this better than Final Crisis?
00:59:55
Speaker
Probably not.
00:59:57
Speaker
Probably not, yeah. Probably not.
01:00:04
Speaker
probably not better than Superman at the end of days.
01:00:10
Speaker
oh i think I think it's better than Batman Super Heavy. Okay. I would put it above that.
01:00:23
Speaker
So that's at number 567. Right. I think this goes at the new number 567.
01:00:30
Speaker
Below that Moon Knight run that we have at 566. Yeah. yeah I would put it above. i I mean, you're making the choice. Okay. I mean, that... All right, let's put it above that Moon Knight run and below Life and Death of Conan.
01:00:47
Speaker
Okay. That Jason Aaron Conan stuff kind of kicked ass. Yeah. it i It did kick ass. It was great. ah All right. Billionaire Island Volume 1 is the new number 566.
01:01:02
Speaker
um Michael, thank you for sending us that list. Chris, our next list comes to us from Owen, who says that he is keeping it simple today with some Lee Ditko Spidey. All right. Now, I have read all of those.
01:01:21
Speaker
I have also read all of those. So these, these were good on.
01:01:29
Speaker
And it is these are just single issues early in the Lee Ditko Spider-Man run. First is Amazing Spider-Man number five. ah Off the top of my head, number five is The Vulture?
01:01:46
Speaker
Number five is Doom. It's the Doctor Doom issue. Oh yeah, that one's good. That one's good. That one's good. That's like... Those early comics where...
01:02:00
Speaker
They're like, hey, it's the Marvel Universe. Like, other shit can happen. Anybody can fight anybody's villain. Yeah, that's... They're all pretty good. um I will say this.
01:02:18
Speaker
Matt, you know I speak well of Steve Dicco's work on these Spider-Man comics. huh His Doctor Doom is whack.
01:02:31
Speaker
He's not off-model, but he is whack. he's He's got a real five-head. He's got a ah huge forehead, yeah.
01:02:45
Speaker
the the The big thing for me with this story with Doctor Doom is that he is way more hands-on than Doctor Doom would ever be again.
01:02:57
Speaker
Yeah, like he fistfights Spider-Man. He fistfights Spider-Man. Now, there are Doombots. but are There's a Doombot who appears in this.
01:03:08
Speaker
But like the real Doctor Doom is straight up in here fistfighting Spider-Man. For sure. Also, um a huge part of this issue is that Flash Thompson, dressed as Spider-Man, ah gets kidnapped by Doctor Doom. Yeah, Doctor Doom played them. That was easy.
01:03:30
Speaker
It's very funny that Doom is like fooled by Look, Peter Parker... We've all seen Spider-Man 2002. Right?
01:03:42
Speaker
We've all seen it. We know that after he gets bit by that spider, Peter Parker gets ripped.
01:03:48
Speaker
Tobey Maguire still ain't Joe Manganiello. You know? True. Peter's still not playing football. Dr. Doom sees a dude who looks very different from Spider-Man and is like, yeah, that's probably him.
01:04:03
Speaker
He's wearing the costume. whats What are the odds? What the odds that anybody would have two costumes? I know i usually fight four people, three of whom have the same costume. But what are the odds that anyone would have one of these?
01:04:19
Speaker
But yeah, that...
01:04:22
Speaker
Spider-Man, the real Peter, goes and fights ah Doom. Like, fistfights him. And then ah gets in the Fantastic Car and leaves.
01:04:36
Speaker
And... Or, like, webs to it. Because he's like, I gotta get back to Aunt May. And so Flash Thompson is just still there in Liberia. he in...
01:04:50
Speaker
He's not in Laveria, is he? Like, this all takes place in New York. Oh, I guess it's in, like, yeah, I guess it's in, like, a Doctor Doom outpost. Yeah, he's at an abandoned factory. Doctor Doom outpost in New York.
01:05:02
Speaker
But, like, the Fantastic Four have to, like, create a portal and pull in pull him back to save him. Here's what I like. Flash Thompson's such a fucking dumbass. that he's like banging on the walls saying, let me out of here. I'm not Spider-Man. You're making a big mistake.
01:05:20
Speaker
And Dr. Doom's like, silence you coward. Flash Thompson leaves the mask on the whole time. Until he, he finally takes it off. And, uh, and that's when the Fantastic Four save him.
01:05:34
Speaker
And Johnny's like, this guy's not Spider-Man. Yeah. That's, that's Joe Mancinello.
01:05:42
Speaker
blonde hair. With frosted tips. Yeah. I like it, man. It's good. It's a good issue, yeah. it's It's Doctor Doom not quite being right.
01:05:59
Speaker
it's It's definitely Doctor Doom not quite being right. Yeah, we've talked before about how Doom is so like instantly formed. yeah like Doom in his first appearance is pretty much Doctor Doom, and by the time we get to FF Annual number one, doomem Doom's Doom.
01:06:18
Speaker
It's always weird seeing Kirby and Ditko draw each other's designs, because you cannot ask for two comics creators who have more different design sensibilities than those two guys.
01:06:34
Speaker
who Who somehow, like... work together to make a cohesive universe. yeah like but Yeah. The two people more responsible for the visual of this universe than anyone else, and they could not have more different ideas of what things and people should look like.
01:06:51
Speaker
Absolutely, yeah. like If Steve Ditko had designed Doctor Doom, he'd wear overalls, you know?
01:07:00
Speaker
He'd have on some like weird, goofy goggles, yeah. I mean, he'd probably look like Doctor Strange. He'd look like Doctor Strange or Doc Ock. Yeah. yeah Doc Ock is just a dude in clothes.
01:07:14
Speaker
with With arms. With octopus arms, yeah. Yeah. Like, that's the weird thing about Dicko, is like, half his dudes are just dudes in clothes, and then half his dudes are Kraven the Hunter, whose costume is fully fucking bananas. Yeah.
01:07:30
Speaker
Same goes with, like, Electro. Yeah. It's like, his head's a lightning bolt. His head is five lightning bolts. It's fine.
01:07:41
Speaker
Yeah, and Doctor Doom, a very simple design from Kirby. Like, simple, iconic, like, the mask looks like this, you know, plain green tunic, plain green cape and hood.
01:07:54
Speaker
It just doesn't look right. No, because, well, we've talked about this before. Every person that Steve Ditko draws is a freak.
01:08:06
Speaker
True. and and so And so when he draws Kirby characters, like, Kirby characters are kind of like elevated, like, almost every Kirby character looks like they could be a statue, right?
01:08:26
Speaker
Mm-hmm. And Ditko characters do not look like that at all. Ditko characters look kind of like goblin-y and weird.
01:08:38
Speaker
So like, his Ben Grimm looks weird as fuck too. Yeah, Ben Grimm shows up for like one panel in this and doesn't look right. Yeah. He's like an amorphous rock ball, you know?
01:08:52
Speaker
I'll tell you what else. oh I don't think Steve Ditko knew how to draw the number four.
01:09:04
Speaker
Weird stuff, man. Weird stuff. His read looks weird. But yeah, like at the end of the issue, like Peter goes to the Daily Bugle and he's like, yeah, I had a long night.
01:09:19
Speaker
I couldn't get you any pictures. And so J. Jonah yells at him. And like, you know, J. Jonah looks like he smoked but five packs of cigarettes that day.
01:09:35
Speaker
and And even Betty, who is supposed to be beautiful, like, you know, is weird looking. Like, everybody is weird looking. yeah That's a great Peter in the last panel, though.
01:09:47
Speaker
Oh, yeah, it's fantastic. Where he's got his hand the side of his face. Where he's like, brother. got nothing but bad luck. Yeah, the great Peter Parker. it's Because Flash has come back and like everybody's like happy that he's back. and Flash talking about it like, I wasn't scared of Doctor Doom.
01:10:07
Speaker
here's Here's what it is, man. Steve Dicko draws freaks. And Jack Herbie draws weirdos. I think you're right. I think that's it.
01:10:18
Speaker
i think ah ah that's the difference. Yeah. Take it to the bank, baby. ah No, this comic's good. This comic's good. Yeah. First, like, Stan and Steve on Spider-Man, pretty fucking untouchable, honestly.
01:10:32
Speaker
ah and For all its quirks. A highly enjoyable story. Like, ah great story of like, yeah, what would happen if Spider-Man fought Doctor Doom?
01:10:42
Speaker
It would be weird. And then this informs those two characters' interactions for the next 60 years.
01:10:53
Speaker
Like, it it all like builds on this, and Spider-Man being like, yeah, this motherfucker kidnapped Flash Thompson. He thought that motherfucker was me!
01:11:04
Speaker
Yeah!
01:11:07
Speaker
We currently have Amazing Spider-Man 24...
01:11:11
Speaker
which is the story where Mysterio is a therapist, at number 610.
01:11:18
Speaker
I don't know if this is that good. I was going to say I think this is better. Okay, alright. Any story with an evil therapist, I am very, like... There are no good therapists in comics, and I think that says a lot about the people who make comics.
01:11:38
Speaker
Alright. I don't think it says anything about therapists. Spidey in the subway is at number 322. That's better. That's better.
01:11:49
Speaker
That's better for sure. Yeah. ah Going straight from Amazing Spider-Man 226 to 227 is at 387. That's probably better. down swinging last...
01:12:00
Speaker
<unk>s probably better
01:12:04
Speaker
ah go down swinging the last Was that the last dance line story? one well There's like a one-issue epilogue. Right. we have Okay, we have Go Down Swinging at 427. We have the epilogue at 429.
01:12:20
Speaker
Look, look. i am the I am the Go Down Swinging apologist. Sure. I think Go Down Swinging's a fucking hoot. It's a good story, yeah. It's the Red Goblin?
01:12:34
Speaker
Come on. and
01:12:37
Speaker
Shit's fun. I think isaac that's better. Going out the door, I would take that every time. Okay, is the epilogue better? Which we have at 429. Probably not.
01:12:49
Speaker
Okay, so is this better or worse than Bizarro Superboy? oh You know what? I think it's better. and think it's better. Alright, so this is the new number 428. Okay.
01:13:01
Speaker
Does this issue have some kind of weird title like How Doom is My Valley or something?
01:13:07
Speaker
March for Destruction by Dr. Doom. That's the name of it. ah I'm just going to call it Spider-Man vs. Doom on the list.
01:13:24
Speaker
Wordy titles. Wordy titles on all these comics. oh so From Stan? Yeah. From Stan Lee? You serious? Really? Hey, this is the issue that announces that Spider-Man is so popular that this book is going coming out monthly.
01:13:38
Speaker
Finally. Finally we know. That's right, frantic one. Next on Owen's list is Amazing Spider-Man number six.
01:13:50
Speaker
You know who that introduces? ah Number six? Is that the Vulture? No, it's the one that introduces Dr. Kurt Connors. Oh, man. We all know what he did.
01:14:02
Speaker
We all know what he did. and heat like And he kind of tries to do it here. Yeah, very first time we see him. he was The signs were there from the start.
01:14:17
Speaker
And I feel like we all we all let Dr. Kurt Connors get away with a lot of things. That we should have we we should have... Someone should have stopped him.
01:14:30
Speaker
I mean, Spider-Man stops him from yeah from absconding with his boy.
01:14:38
Speaker
he would later eat. I'm sorry, I didn't want to have to bring it up, but he we cannot... we can't If we remain silent on the matter of Kirk Connors eating a boy, then then we are not doing our jobs.
01:14:55
Speaker
that That's what he did. we We can't sidestep that that's what he did. Okay. So people might forget that in his first appearance, the lizard hangs out in the Everglades.
01:15:09
Speaker
Oh yeah, this is this is the first example of Spider-Man has to leave New York. To go to a place where Spider-Man stuff don't work. Yeah, because ah cause the lizards run around in Florida, and the headline but and is not, human lizard wearing purple pants terrorizes Florida.
01:15:33
Speaker
Is ripping trees up from their roots.
01:15:38
Speaker
Yeah, like, that's not the headline. The headline is, hey, bet Spider-Man couldn't beat him, though. Yeah. Hey, fuck Spider-Man. why don't you go fight the lizard if you're so strong? yeah And so true to form, when Peter sees that, he goes, what kind of cornball gag is this?
01:16:00
Speaker
ah So instead of immediately going, Spider-Man goes to Jonah's office and webs him up to the ceiling of his office.
01:16:11
Speaker
As he should, honestly. And says, hey, hey I accept your challenge to fight the lizard, but you've got to send a photographer to Florida to come take pictures of it, so send Peter Parker to Florida.
01:16:27
Speaker
So that's how he gets to Florida. is He goes with Jonah as Peter to go photograph Spider-Man. ah So then he goes to Florida.
01:16:42
Speaker
he starts fighting the lizard in like, and Jonah go to Florida. Yeah. They go together. Yeah. deep Can you think of any comic book character that it would be worse to, to spend a like five hour flight with than J. Jonah Jameson?
01:16:59
Speaker
I can't like maybe Wolverine. What do you think you would talk about? I mean, probably Spider-Man. Probably. He would just talk about Spider-Man. He's like, oh, these airplanes.
01:17:15
Speaker
ah You know, my son flies. Not airplanes. He's an astronaut.
01:17:25
Speaker
You know, I once broke a big story about airplane safety and how they're not actually as safe as you think.
01:17:33
Speaker
ah Anyway, Spider-Man goes down and starts... Oh, baby!
01:17:39
Speaker
ah Spider-Man starts fighting the lizard in the Everglades, and he gets like thrown way back by the lizard's tail, and he sees a woman inside a house crying.
01:17:53
Speaker
And he's like, hey, what's wrong? You better get away from here, because the lizard's out here. And she's like, I'm his wife. I'm Mrs. The Lizard.
01:18:04
Speaker
I'm Mrs. Kurt Connors. ah And in order to show this, this is something that happens in comics a lot. like Particularly like Silver Age comics.
01:18:18
Speaker
um um There is a signed headshot of Kurt Connors that she has that says, To my wife, love, Curtis.
01:18:30
Speaker
Matt, have you given Marlene ever a signed 8x10 of your smiling face? This makes me want to do it. Yeah. I mean, it's a good gift, if we're being honest. Is it?
01:18:47
Speaker
I'm not sure it is a good gift, Matt. I think it's a pretty good gift. I mean, look, if you get like if you got me one of these, I would hang it up in my office.
01:18:58
Speaker
i think that's great. I do not think Marlene would. Marlene can see you anytime she wants. That's true. That's a good point. But, you know, Kurt was away from home a lot because he was trying to figure out how to regrow his missing arm.
01:19:13
Speaker
And that's why he went to the Everglades. Yeah. And what do you know? he we get We get the lizard's origin. We also get first to know Billy Connors. First to know Billy Connors, who's about to be eaten by a snake. Not by the lizard, but by a snake. It's dramatic irony.
01:19:32
Speaker
Yeah, and the lizard's like, I'm gonna save him! You can't take Billy away from me! But Spider-Man saves him and takes him to his mom, and he's like,
01:19:44
Speaker
It's a good thing I'm a science major in high school. i ah I'm going to make the lizard ah an antidote. He calls himself a science major in Amazing Fantasy XV, too.
01:19:55
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. ah So as he's trying to make an antidote for the lizard, the lizard comes into the house and throws a desk at Spider-Man.
01:20:07
Speaker
Like lizards do. Like lizards do.
01:20:13
Speaker
And Spider-Man gets caught under the rubble, ah but he's okay. Then he makes... Hey, there's one thing we know about Spider-Man. Rubble can't stop him. Rubble can't stop him.
01:20:24
Speaker
So he takes the antidote to go try to find the lizard again. He makes himself some skis out of web
01:20:34
Speaker
And it's very funny. Yeah, hes makes like little makes little boats for his feet. like little Little web rafts for his feet. like but And then like paddles his way through the swamp.
01:20:48
Speaker
And I do want to be like, Peter, like there's probably a boat nearby. It's Florida, dog.
01:20:57
Speaker
Go get on a fan boat, Spidey. Anyway, ah he's he brings the the antidote to the lizard. The lizard is rallying alligators.
01:21:08
Speaker
Relegators? He's relegating to like make an army. And him and Spider-Man end up fighting through a silo
01:21:21
Speaker
until finally Peter manages to... Well, he doesn't even... ah like use the antidote on Kurt, he just turns back human.
01:21:34
Speaker
After a while.
01:21:38
Speaker
Yeah, man. it just he it It just kind of happens out of nowhere. like he He changes back into Kurt Connors.
01:21:48
Speaker
He does make an antidote. Oh, no. no he He forces him to drink it. i I missed that. There's a panel where he forces him to drink the serum. Never mind.
01:21:59
Speaker
that's whats for Oh yeah, that's right. like it's it's He puts him in a headlock and pours it into his mouth. Yeah. ah so I mean, look, it's good.
01:22:12
Speaker
Lizard's my least favorite of the original roster of Spider-Man villains. And rightly so. yeah I mean, after what he did. After what he did. ah So Kirk Conner burns all of his notes, and then the next day so Jonah's like,
01:22:28
Speaker
I'm not even getting the pictures I'm here for. And then Peter shows up with the pictures and Jonah's like, how'd you get these? Well, you wasted your money. These are fake.
01:22:41
Speaker
There is no lizard. That was a publicity stunt made up by Spider-Man. and So Jonah made them go to Florida for nothing. Yeah, because he doesn't believe the lizard exists.
01:22:54
Speaker
And then he's like, I'm not going to pay you, Peter. And do you owe me for ah the plane trip and half the hotel bill.
01:23:08
Speaker
So, that's that. Yep. There we go all Probably, like, of that first year of Spider-Man, this is one of the weaker ones.
01:23:21
Speaker
would say so. And, like, yeah, i I've never, like, the Lizard's not
01:23:29
Speaker
The lizard, like, it's, I don't think the lizard's bad. i mean, obviously he's bad. He ate a boy, and it was his boy, Billy Connors. He's morally bad.
01:23:39
Speaker
Yes. Yeah. But I don't think he's, like, a bad villain. um But, like, other than that story where he does eat his boy, Billy Connors, oh it's, like, i'm I'm very rarely excited to see Kirk Connors the Lizard.
01:23:58
Speaker
you know Yeah, I mean, is there a great lizard story besides that one? No. That one's real good, though. That was real good. the Anything else?
01:24:10
Speaker
Like, where lizard is the focus, and he's not just part of a group of villains? I don't even think lizard works worse when he's in a group of villains.
01:24:20
Speaker
Because, like, he's a fucking lizard. Yeah.
01:24:26
Speaker
Like, what's he getting out of being in the Sinister Six, you know? You know what i love about these early issues of Spider-Man? Like, well, not even just the early issues.
01:24:40
Speaker
Like, certain Spider-Man stories decide to get out of the geography of New York, and sometimes that's fun. Like, when the Juggernaut came up from Mexico.
01:24:55
Speaker
The Rhino. Well, it was the writer that came out from Mexico. That's right. Yeah.
01:25:01
Speaker
Like, I think in the early stories, Stan had this idea that not all of Spider-Man's villains were going to be from New York. You know?
01:25:12
Speaker
And then eventually, like, eventually, Kirk Connors is a guy who lives in New York and who is there all the time. Yes. But in this story, he lives in Florida.
01:25:23
Speaker
Yeah, because that's that's where you want to be, man. Yeah. If you're a lizard. If you're a lizard. So Stan's like, lizards aren't in aren't in New York.
01:25:35
Speaker
How much do you think either Ditko or Stan Lee... Are you going to ask me how much research I think they did for this?
01:25:46
Speaker
Well, no. In this story, the lizard hangs out with alligators. Uh-huh. And he's like making an army of alligators.
01:25:59
Speaker
So was he originally meant to be an alligator?
01:26:04
Speaker
i mean... He's certainly... like He's more alligator-ish in the book, but he doesn't have like the long snout.
01:26:17
Speaker
He doesn't have the long snout. But like it makes me wonder if... Like, when Ditko drew it and was plotting it, he was like, he's an alligator.
01:26:31
Speaker
And then Stan at some point was like, actually, I'm going to call him the lizard.
01:26:37
Speaker
I mean, the alligator is not as good a name as the lizard. Agreed. Lizard is fun to say. But in this story, he is surrounded by alligators and hangs out in the Everglades.
01:26:50
Speaker
Yes. So it kind of seems like he was maybe originally intended to be the alligator. Oh, well.
01:27:01
Speaker
You know, people people say, hey, what were Stan's contributions? There you go. Yeah, there you go. There's one of them. He's the lizard, not the alligator. ah This is not as good as... Wouldn't it be groovy if we made it the lizard?
01:27:19
Speaker
Alright, you say it, he's the alligator. But maybe he's the lizard. And then later he later he could show up in New York. Because otherwise if he's the alligator he could only be in Florida.
01:27:37
Speaker
I mean... Surely he didn't say that because i mean the Spider-Man fights the fucking kangaroo too, so... That's fair. I don't think this is as good as the Mysterio Therapist story. No.
01:27:52
Speaker
It's not as good as Shed, which we have at 637. No, that story honestly completely owns. It's not as good as Amazing Spider-Man number three, which we have at number 672. Uh-huh. That's Doc Ock.
01:28:05
Speaker
It's not as good as My Uncle My Enemy, which we have at 774. Great one.
01:28:13
Speaker
The Spider-Mobile story is 804.
01:28:19
Speaker
That's better. Yeah. Yeah, that's better.
01:28:26
Speaker
i think Venom's better. Doc Ock's Cocaine Rocket is at 843. It's definitely not as good as that. That comic fucking rules.
01:28:39
Speaker
the I think it's probably...
01:28:44
Speaker
Let's see. 867, we have... we have An amazing Spider-Man story with Silver Sable and the Sinister Syndicate. Matt, what I think you need to ask yourself is, are Tom DeFalco... Is the team of Tom DeFalco and Ron Friends on its best day?
01:29:05
Speaker
As good as the team of Stanley and Steve Ditko on their worst day. I was going to say, this this is better than that Silver Sable story. This is better than that, but I do not think it's as good as Revenge of the Sinister Six, which is a few spots above there.
01:29:20
Speaker
I don't think it's as good as Sword from 2020, which we have at 866. Yeah, I think that's fair. Which means this is the new number 867.
01:29:29
Speaker
ah Amazing Spider-Man number 6, and I'm just going to put... First Lizard, even though I know there's some story title to this. Face with the Lizard.
01:29:41
Speaker
They're all...
01:29:45
Speaker
Oh, those the titles of these issues. Okay. Next on the list from Owen is Amazing Spider-Man number seven, which is the second... That's Owen the Vulture. It's the second appearance of the Vulture. Damn, Vulture's early. Vulture's early.
01:30:00
Speaker
Vulture's like... number two, right? I think we've talked about it a yeah couple of times. I think so. Yeah, Vulture's in number two.
01:30:11
Speaker
ah So Seven is the is the second appearance of the Vulture. Yeah, it sure is.
01:30:23
Speaker
Yeah, the Vulture. He's an old man. yeah Spider-Man just fully fights an old man sometimes and
Spider-Man and the Vulture Discussion
01:30:30
Speaker
almost loses. Yeah.
01:30:33
Speaker
You know, because some of my first interaction with Spider-Man, particularly the classic villains, was in the 1990s cartoon, I really thought for a long time that the Vulture's deal was that he was trying to be young.
01:30:55
Speaker
yeah But that's just one story. Yeah, that's the one story. Now... Was the vulture in the cartoon the young vulture that he was for a minute in the ninety s he He starts as the old vulture and then uses some kind of like artifact or something to become young for a little while.
01:31:18
Speaker
Yeah, okay.
01:31:22
Speaker
ah I like the vulture more than I like the lizard, but only barely. Yeah.
01:31:29
Speaker
I don't think that this issue is especially interesting. I like that um we open with the vulture in in prison, ah and the warden makes him a trustee in the machine shop.
01:31:46
Speaker
And he's like, those fools. I've taken everything I need to make my flying device. And then the next panel is him floating in his jail cell, and there is no additional information provided.
01:32:00
Speaker
It's just, hey, if you have access to what would be in a prison machine shop, you too can make a levitating old man.
01:32:13
Speaker
But it's essentially the whole... concept here is that Vulture gets out of jail. he's He goes on a crime spree. And so Spider-Man goes after him.
01:32:24
Speaker
And then he's like, ah oh, I got him. I got Spider-Man this time because now I got an anti-magnetic device. And I'm going to kill this motherfucker.
01:32:37
Speaker
That's actual dialogue. Yeah, I know. ah Matt, what an anti-magnetic device do? had no idea. Yeah.
01:32:48
Speaker
ah But whatever it is, it makes Vulture a lot stronger. So when he pretends to fall, like he he he does the old Ric Flair, no, no, don't hurt me, don't hurt me.
01:33:05
Speaker
And then when his opponent comes up, the low blow, you know? He does one of those on Spider-Man. And so Spider-Man falls on a roof.
01:33:18
Speaker
And Vulture's like, ah, they got him. A lot of people have actually said that Eddie Guerrero was inspired by the Vulture. I think that's true. I think that's true. So the Vulture then hatches a plan to go rob the Daily Bugle.
01:33:35
Speaker
And his thought process is, one of the biggest payrolls in New York is at the office of J. Jonah Jameson. He publishes the Daily Bugle and NOW Magazine. He must employ hundreds of workers.
01:33:46
Speaker
Okay, but we also know that he underpays them.
Vulture's Heist Plans
01:33:50
Speaker
All of them, yes. Yeah, like, it's not just Peter. And, like, I find it hard to believe that even in 1964,
01:34:01
Speaker
ah a newspaper and magazine is going to have some of the largest payroll and most money. In New York City? In New York City, yeah.
01:34:14
Speaker
I don't know. what What else could be there? What's that? Oh, there's a Federal Reserve Bank also in New York. There's a Wall Street. There's a whole street and of finance.
01:34:26
Speaker
But anyway, um there is a pretty cool fight sequence between the Vulture and Spider-Man through and around the printing presses. Like, that's that's kind of cool.
01:34:39
Speaker
Yeah. And then they like go out and fight some more flying around. Spider-Man makes a parachute out of webs. And he webs up Jonah's mouth when he tries to yell at him.
01:34:56
Speaker
And that's pretty funny. He loves doing that. That's great bit. There's a bit in this where um Vulture takes his wings off. And if you were wondering, Vulture's costume, his arms go in the wings.
01:35:09
Speaker
So it's just... Vulture kind of sitting on a desk, one foot up on the desk, one foot hanging down, in like, just his sleeveless jumpsuit, like a tank top, and he's kinda old man-ripped, and I don't like it. that's That's when Vulture is concocting his plan to go invade the Daily Bugle. He's real fucking wiry.
01:35:32
Speaker
he sta He's he's got real, like, ah Patrick Stewart and Picard. ha ha!
01:35:42
Speaker
look going on there. Yeah. yeah But he's, you know, drawn by Steve Ditko. So his head is a circle. He's got a giant nose.
01:35:53
Speaker
Yeah, it's ah weird, man.
Spider-Man's Essence and Villain Motivations
01:35:57
Speaker
I like it. I don't like it, but I do like it. Yeah. Bunch of fucking weirdos in these comics. And then at the end, ah we finish up an arc where Betty has been like pining after Peter and they finally get together.
01:36:11
Speaker
I love the cover of this comic because it says, Here is Spider-Man as you like him. Fighting. Joking. Daring. And I'm like, damn, that is how I like Spider-Man.
01:36:25
Speaker
That's exactly how I like Spider-Man. Yeah, you you crushed it, Stan.
01:36:30
Speaker
You nailed it. I think this is a fun issue, but like... The Vulture has no fucking...
01:36:42
Speaker
motivation to do anything he does here. mean, other than he fucking hates Spider-Man. you know I got out of jail and I'm going to do crimes. That's it.
01:36:54
Speaker
Yeah, man. ah People love to just I love the in Spider-Man 2 Sam Raimi movie. really had a like love in spiderman too sam rayy movie oh Doc Ock has his full-ass Frankenstein origin story, where several people are murdered by his robot arms that make him evil.
01:37:24
Speaker
And then he robs a bank. Well, he has a good reason to rob the bank. What is his good reason for robbing the bank, Matt? He's got a buy he's got to have money so he can buy precious tritium. Precious tritium.
01:37:37
Speaker
The power of the sun in the palm of my hand.
01:37:41
Speaker
But Matt, he steals the tritium. yeah maybe they I know he needed the money for something. I think it's for the rest of the lab equipment, but he fucking steals the tritium.
01:37:55
Speaker
That's true.
01:38:00
Speaker
It wasn't just to rob a bank. He needed the money for a purpose. He's throwing around bags of fucking quarters, dude. He's throwing bags of quarters at Spider-Man. He's absolutely doing that, yeah. Ugh.
01:38:12
Speaker
he's throwing around bags of quarters at spider bed he's absolutely doing that yeah
01:38:21
Speaker
ah
01:38:24
Speaker
Alright, we gotta rank this. It's a good comic. I like it. It's better than the first Lizard story. Better than the first Lizard, yeah. It's still not as good as Doc Ock just fucking wrecking house in oh Revenge of the Sinister Six.
01:38:39
Speaker
Agreed.
01:38:42
Speaker
It might be... i was gonna say it might be better than the Spider-Mobile issue, but I think it's like... on par... maybe?
01:38:56
Speaker
Like, it's kind of similar to the first appearance of Venom, for me.
01:39:02
Speaker
Which is the 801.
01:39:08
Speaker
Yeah, I can see. I mean, I like that one better. but ah But I know you don't like Venom. Even as much as I like Venom. like i Eddie Brock's got more going on in that story than Adrian Toomes has going on in this story.
01:39:25
Speaker
Yeah.
01:39:27
Speaker
803 is New Ways to Die.
01:39:33
Speaker
That's the first anti-Venom. That's the first anti-Venom.
01:39:39
Speaker
That's... That's bad. Oh no, man. This is... Look... it's This is a perfectly acceptable Marvel comic from 1963. Honestly, this is probably one of the better comics, maybe the second best comic that Marvel was publishing that month.
01:39:56
Speaker
Which means it is probably the second best comic that was published that month. Yeah, I would say this is between, i would put this between New Ways to Die and that Spider-Mobile issue.
01:40:07
Speaker
Okay, that works. Which makes this the new number 804.
The Flash #19 Review
01:40:13
Speaker
Amazing Spider-Man number seven. Return of the Vulture. Return of the Vulture. Oh my god.
01:40:27
Speaker
Alright, we're going to start this list from Jolene. But I don't know how much of it we're going to finish. before We get begin can speed run some of these. Well, I know one of them we're probably going to not have read. so Okay, that's easy.
01:40:43
Speaker
ah This one we've read, though. The Flash number 19 from 1988. That one where Wally takes a date to a rogues convention.
01:40:55
Speaker
Ooh, that's a good one. That is a good one, yeah. it's It's wild that like when Mark Waid was asked like who the best Flash writer of all time was, he was like, Bill Mr. Lopes.
01:41:12
Speaker
Easily. like yeah Because of issues like this, like like this run is often overlooked by because of how long Wade was on ah Flash starting like like for 100 issues, starting at like number 53, I think it was. yeah yeah oh But like the Bill Messner-Lobes stuff is really fun.
01:41:39
Speaker
ah Like, And it's got like such great high-concept issues, like the like the movie theater issue, which we've we've talked about. Right. oh Which number is this?
01:41:51
Speaker
It is number 19. 19. Okay. Yeah, yeah man. Like, it's the it's the Rogue's Convention.
01:42:06
Speaker
it's got It's got Chunk in it.
01:42:10
Speaker
It's got Wally West ah living in mansion because he won the lottery. Yeah, yeah it's... I love... to like This is great.
01:42:27
Speaker
Because this is...
01:42:32
Speaker
It's kind of the perfect post-crisis DC Universe story, right? To me... the this Flash run is like the epitome of post-crisis DC Comics.
01:42:44
Speaker
Yeah. Because it's like, you know, here's all our here's all our you know goofball Flash villains that, you know, throw around boomerangs and and cold lasers, and also fucking Gentleman Ghost is there.
01:43:01
Speaker
Which is wild. And they're just gonna like hang out And like have a nice time and like fucking goof around and go to the buffet. like Yeah, man.
01:43:15
Speaker
It's pretty fucking good.
01:43:20
Speaker
And it ends with it ends with the hotel basically being completely destroyed. Yes. Yeah. oh it's it's It's kind of a hoot.
01:43:32
Speaker
I love the idea that all of the classic rogues At this point in time, and and something that like continues up through the the Wade run, until ah until jeff Johns is like, but what if Mirror Master was using that mirror to do cocaine? To do cocaine.
01:43:52
Speaker
Which, i like let's be clear, there was a Mark Miller-Grant Morrison run that was the bridge between those.
01:44:03
Speaker
Yes, but... Yeah. yeah like that's That's the where the Flash's legs get broken and everything. Yeah. I mean, like, that, you know, and then, yes, okay, fine.
01:44:18
Speaker
But, like, the idea that the rogues, like, after Barry Allen dies, they're like, well, you know. Yeah. Like, yeah, we're like fucking bank robbers, but you know, whatever.
01:44:31
Speaker
Like, they're not, they're just, it's, it's DC getting blue collar supervillains for the first time. Right. Like something that we think of Marvel as kind of always having, even though like we were just talking about, like the Vulture shows up and he's like, I'm going to rob banks.
01:44:49
Speaker
Like that's just kind of what supervillains were. And then, you know, you get the people who are just like, yeah, it's a job. And i don't think it's a coincidence that ah this came out in December of 88.
01:45:08
Speaker
And that's kind of when comic book conventions would have really started being a thing. Like, like,
01:45:18
Speaker
When you see that panel of all the rogues, and they're sitting around that table, and they're going, Captain Cold really did a great job this year. like And then they all toast.
01:45:29
Speaker
Yeah. yeah like That's probably like like William Mr. Loeb's walking like around being like, and and okay, so you're Captain Cold. And ah ah tinch and you know Jim shooter is
01:45:46
Speaker
Like, that's probably what it was like for him to just hang out with people. Well, it's, the I think there was something writers in this time period particularly wanted to explore as far as, like, villains, yeah, villains being a villain just being a job. Yeah. Because this is at the same time that Mark Grunewald is doing that in Captain America.
01:46:15
Speaker
Yes. That the Serpent Society is like showing up as a villain union and all of that, you know? And, and the, we haven't said it. The trick to this issue is, um, Trickster sent Wally an invitation as a joke and Wally actually showed up and then all the rogues were like, well, damn, he did get invited.
01:46:42
Speaker
i guess we should just hang out with him. Yeah. I guess, you know, all right, we're not going to have a big fight. Come to the buffet. And then at the end, when the when they end up, like, fucking up the hotel anyway, because Cloudburst sets off a storm inside the hotel,
01:47:04
Speaker
ah
01:47:06
Speaker
they're all, like, sitting on the on the curb outside, talking about, like, i other what that was fun. You know what? That was fun. yeah And it's fun. It is a fun, low-stakes comic book story.
01:47:22
Speaker
Yeah, and this is where you get Captain Cold being like, yeah, like the way Barry Allen worked is we kind of fell into his trap of trying to outsmart him.
01:47:34
Speaker
And instead of hurting people, we were just like making it a game and trying to get revenge. like you know That's why we're a bunch of fucking goofballs. And I love that. like i I love that idea.
01:47:47
Speaker
That's like such a great... Barry Allen should have stayed dead. That's such a great legacy for but him to have. is that He's the guy who was like, yeah, i mean, Weather Wizard could have fucking murdered millions of people.
01:48:01
Speaker
But, you know, i made it I made him want to beat me. Right.
01:48:10
Speaker
Alas. Good stuff, though. It's a good issue. Oh, i I said it was Cloudburst. It's not Cloudburst. Cloudburst is a different character. That's Chunk.
01:48:22
Speaker
I'm thinking about chuck this Chunk. ah Chunk makes everything like Earthquake, and then Weather Wizard makes a big rainstorm inside. That's it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I knew it was something like that.
01:48:33
Speaker
yeah Cloudburst is a different character that i is not there. And I was thinking, I don't know why I was thinking. I think Chunk says something about it being a Cloudburst at some point. Okay. ah Yeah, man, this is good.
01:48:46
Speaker
This is good stuff. Not as good as the movie theater issue, for sure. Yeah, okay. ah but We have that at 616. That's shot in the dark. Yeah. But I mean, pretty solid.
01:48:59
Speaker
Honestly, I think it's better than Race Against Time, which is at 661. Okay. okay
01:49:07
Speaker
ah So somewhere in that 50-issue range? I think it's as good as Chain Lightning. all like Chain Lightning a lot. oh
01:49:17
Speaker
Is it as good as ah the Akewood story about Leon some bitches?
01:49:24
Speaker
Hmm. Who... Was born Brian Wheat, but did change his name on a Christian dare. and it's I mean, it's so funny. That story is so... is All you have to do is say the phrase Christian dare, and but you will make me laugh.
01:49:41
Speaker
It's Brian Wheat, as has been proven, ah who wrote his song Gravity Train. I think I would put it below that.
01:49:53
Speaker
ok I think I would put it below that. Then it's probably under those two Sagittarius stories. I think it's better than the raccoon. okay that ah The story where, according to my notes column, ah Calvin learns that God's indifference is indistinguishable from God's wrath.
01:50:09
Speaker
A lot of challenging stories. Remember how Doctor Strange told Johnny Storm... That hell and heaven were the same thing, and so were God and the devil.
01:50:23
Speaker
Yeah, somebody said that for every so that story for every story ever. I would be fascinated to know where that it ends up. ah This issue is called A Meeting of Rogues.
01:50:39
Speaker
Let's see, Bill Messer-Lobes and ah Jim Mooney penciled this one. The art is good.
01:50:48
Speaker
It's got that bad 80s coloring, but the like the offer it like where everything like the eyes look weird because they're not colored right. Yeah. but But as far as like yeah yeah as far as like the pencil art, it's exactly what post-crisis DC comics look like to me. Yes.
01:51:06
Speaker
You know?
01:51:10
Speaker
like Like those Suicide Squad issues from the same time kind of have that look too. it's It's just what it looks like. Yeah. yeah ah Next is Catwoman number 50, the time that Selina got her own Iron Man armor.
01:51:29
Speaker
Buddy. I haven't read it. I know the cover. You know, if we were going to do one for catch-up, maybe that single issue should be it.
01:51:43
Speaker
I mean, i I have my copy that Jolene sent to me of Catwoman the Cat File.
01:51:51
Speaker
so Oh man, that Iron Man armor looks like fucking trash. Oh yeah, that like i that cover... What if Jim Ballard designed Iron Man?
01:52:03
Speaker
Awful. Just awful. ah Doug Montsch... on on the writing duties on that issue.
01:52:15
Speaker
ah But yeah, i sorry you wait. would read this one for catch-up, but the deal is I would not read anything else.
01:52:25
Speaker
No other issues. Just this one single issue of Catwoman. Finally on Jolene's list is Unlimited Access Numbers Jesus Christ. jesus christ
01:52:42
Speaker
Why? Now, we have ranked DC Marvel All Access.
01:52:49
Speaker
Unlimited Access was the sequel series. And honestly, Chris, this is interestingly timely. Is it? Because for the first time in decades, Marvel DC crossovers crossovers have been announced.
01:53:10
Speaker
Oh, really? I didn't see that. Yes. ah there are a couple of crossover projects that have been announced ah for later this year.
01:53:23
Speaker
I did see people talking about new Amalgam comics, so I guess that's why. but That's some wishful thinking. Yeah, I mean, look, I would love that. But there is going to be ah new Like Marvel-DC and DC-Marvel crossover series.
01:53:42
Speaker
Which I genuinely thought would never happen. I and on honestly very surprised. Now, there was an omnibus collection of dc versus Marvel vs. DC and DC vs. Marvel with all the Amalgam books, too.
01:54:01
Speaker
Really? Last year. Really? So that I guess that was the the sort of trial balloon for this.
01:54:15
Speaker
This is how you know that the corporate entities that own DC and Marvel no longer have anything to lose and don't care. ah Yes.
01:54:26
Speaker
Yeah. Because like I think... the like original DC-Marvel crossover stuff in the 90s was like...
01:54:37
Speaker
a sign of Marvel maybe kind of trying to save itself, you know? yeah I mean, like, it's... Coming out of bankruptcy. Yeah, it's... it's DC vs. Marvel is 96, I believe, and then the second... Wait, like... This would have been 98, because Superman is electric.
01:54:57
Speaker
Right. So, yeah, it's it's it's in the dark times. it's It's Marvel like doing anything it can during bankruptcy to try to like revive itself.
01:55:12
Speaker
This is like, what do we care? We're the two two of the biggest media companies in the world. What does it matter? do You want to do a crossover? Go for it.
01:55:24
Speaker
You know? Mm-hmm. Oh, ah that the the publishing division? Comics? That line item on our budget we could just strike any time?
01:55:38
Speaker
Sure. and That IP farm? Yeah. ah Look, maybe this is good. It is by Carl Kiesel and Pat Olive.
01:55:50
Speaker
Maybe it's good. It's also for issues of a comic book about access? And I have not read it and do not want to read it.
01:56:01
Speaker
Who sucks so unbelievably badly. Yeah, let me know when Access comes back. This is post-Abalgum. so it's its This is post the first wave of Amalgum Comics. I think this is setting up the second wave of Amalgum Comics.
01:56:19
Speaker
Yeah, I think you're right. I think you're right. Because remember, there were two waves. Matt, let's write the Access book. You and me. We always said we would never collaborate on on co-writing a comic.
01:56:32
Speaker
But I think we could write the Access comic. Marvel and DC have come together and we will come together and we will write... ah Let's see. it was all Access and then Unlimited Access and then the third one will be...
01:56:55
Speaker
ah To WWE Access. With X's. With X's. Who is more qualified to write this? Absolute Access. That's what it's called.
01:57:08
Speaker
Who is more qualified to write this than us? I can't think of anybody. i mean, Carl Kiesel still around, I guess. but We would have to read this series.
01:57:20
Speaker
Yeah, and we would be getting paid. That's true. That is the circumstances under which I i will read those.
01:57:30
Speaker
Well... Yeah, I'll tell you what. if If we get hired to write unlimited... Wait, no. This this book was called Unlimited Access.
01:57:42
Speaker
ah Backstage Access.
01:57:46
Speaker
Then... We will also rank Unlimited Access. yeah you'll You'll know what's happening, listener, when we rank this. Yeah, that'll be your clue.
01:57:59
Speaker
You'll be like, aww shit. It's going down. They did it. They got it. Alright, um, Jolene does have a backup, and the backup is Generation Hex.
01:58:15
Speaker
Uh, I have read that because I did read all of the Amalgam books. Um... Generation Hex. You might be like, well, what's that a combination of?
01:58:27
Speaker
It's Jonah Hex and Generation X. Yes. Yeah. ah And it's a fucking Peter Milligan comic. Yeah. Wild, right?
01:58:39
Speaker
It's Peter Milligan and Adam Polina, which is bonkers. Yeah. who Who gets ah mashed up with Jonah Hex?
01:58:50
Speaker
Of course, Chamber. Yep. Which kind of makes perfect sense.
01:59:00
Speaker
oh Look, I'm not going to lie. I kind of love this one. This is the one that, like, you see a lot of Amalgam books and you're like, Dark Claw.
01:59:14
Speaker
DC's most popular character, Marvel's most popular character, Wolverine, Batman. Got it. No other explanation necessary.
01:59:21
Speaker
Superman Captain America, Super Soldier. The name writes itself. Iron Lantern. Two characters who, like, use a thing to fight crime.
01:59:33
Speaker
Generation Hex, the only thing is that maybe you came up with the name. But then... But then there are so many... Why not Hex Factor?
01:59:45
Speaker
Why not anything? Why Generation X?
01:59:50
Speaker
ah But yeah, man. This book's wild. i think it's because i think it's because Peter Milligan had the idea of like, oh, Chamber and Jonah Hex.
02:00:01
Speaker
They both have kind of messed up faces. So we'll just put them together. Where do you get your ideas is a bad question.
02:00:12
Speaker
yeah But I would love for Peter Milligan to explain the creative process behind Generation Hex. Sure. ah I do like that when it gives you Chamber's origin story,
02:00:29
Speaker
oh it basically says i mean it says he grew up strong and he grew up mean. it's like It's Peter Milligan doing doing like Boy Named Sue, right?
02:00:42
Speaker
Yeah. Oh, what a weird book. What a weird book.
02:00:51
Speaker
ah weird but I kind of love it. It's great.
02:00:58
Speaker
the Because once you get that in place, everything else is just the weirdest combinations. There's Bat Trask, who's Bat Lash and Boulevard Trask.
02:01:09
Speaker
And he makes these Wild West Sentinels that are also Manhunters. it's yeah It's... I mean, it's weird. It's the kind of weird that I want these comics to be.
02:01:25
Speaker
Like, Legends Dark Claw, just a good fucking comic, right? oh The Super Soldier book by Dave Gibbons, that's just a good fucking comic. This is like, oh right, weird as shit.
02:01:39
Speaker
Like, oh, we're going to combine all the Marvel characters and DC characters, mash them up into new things? Good, that sounds weird. Let's do the weirdest one we can. Alright, we've got Dark Claw Adventures at number 549. It's not that good.
02:01:55
Speaker
One of the worst ones is Amazon, which we have at $13.29. It's better than that, yeah. ah I guess we never ranked Super Soldier, which is interesting.
02:02:08
Speaker
We've got Spider-Boy at $6.72. It's not that good, but that's the neighborhood, I think. We've got Spider-Boy Team-Up at $7.72. Okay, ah it's not as good as that one.
02:02:22
Speaker
Okay, so it's going to go below that. It's going to below that. oh But, you know, kind of around there. Alright. I mean, I think it's better than the Ultimate Spider-Man Venom story.
02:02:35
Speaker
I would agree, yeah. I don't know if it's as good as Return of the Vulture.
02:02:44
Speaker
Okay.
02:02:48
Speaker
I think, i I do think it goes I do think it goes Between Ultimate Spider-Man Venom and Amazing Spider-Man Betrayed, the first appearance of the Spider-Mobile and the prelude to Doc Ock and Aunt May's wedding.
02:03:01
Speaker
Alright, so that's the new number 807. That's a busy part of the list. The busy part of the list? I mean, that's kind of like the center. That's true.
02:03:13
Speaker
ah So the new number 807 is Generation Hex, number one. And only. We got to 1595. 1595.
02:03:23
Speaker
So we will break we will get to 1600 next time. If you would like to send us an Every Story Ever list, you can do it at our email address, which warrocketpodcast at gmail.com.
02:03:36
Speaker
If you would like to support these Every Story Ever specials, as well as our weekly War Rocket Ajax show, and all the other stuff we do here at Klytus Media, Comics Catch-Up, Movie Fighters and Snack Situation, you can do that by heading over to patreon.com slash warrocketajax and kicking it as little as a dollar a month to ensure that we keep doing all of those shows.
02:04:00
Speaker
And as a patron, you will get every single one of those shows ad-free. Currently, we have 405 paid Patreon backers. That's so close.
02:04:14
Speaker
When we hit 420, we will take an edible and record some bonus content.
02:04:24
Speaker
You're going to want that to happen. And all we need is 15 more people to ah head over to Patreon.
02:04:35
Speaker
And again, you can just donate $1 a month. Now, if you want to hear the Boko, it's $5 a month. But hey, that ain' that ain't bad.
02:04:47
Speaker
That ain't bad. I bought a six-pack of Liquid Death today that cost more than that. And Liquid Death... for some reason, will not sponsor this show or Apocrypals, despite our continued requests.
02:05:03
Speaker
And our love of the product. And our love of the product.
02:05:11
Speaker
We're on blueskyatwarrocketajax.com, so go follow us there. Our website is warrocketajax.com. It has every episode of the show we've ever done. If you want to join our Discord community...
02:05:23
Speaker
You can do that by emailing us, hitting us up on Blue Sky, getting at us on Tumblr, warrocketpodcast.tumblr.com, and asking us for an invitation to our Discord server.
02:05:37
Speaker
um If you ask nicely for an invitation, we will give you one, and you can join over there and be part of that community. If you want to find me and my stuff, go to mattdwilson.net to find links to my comics, my books, my other podcasts, and my social medias.
02:05:52
Speaker
Chris, where can people find you? Everybody can find all of my stuff by going to the-isb.com. That is my website.
02:06:04
Speaker
And you can find things that I've written, other podcasts that I do. And if you happen to own a ah large media company, ah you can even hire me to write for you because I don't have a job.
02:06:20
Speaker
Sounds pretty good. Sounds like a deal to me. Sounds like a... Honestly, full of deals.
02:06:30
Speaker
Thanks for listening, everybody. We will be back in March with more Rankings of Stories. That's right, everybody. See then.
02:06:41
Speaker
Forever, forever, forever, ever, ever, ever,