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Watch: How to Be the Marketer AI Can't Replace: https://danchez.com/marketers-this-is-how-you-dont-get-replaced-by-ai-human-edge-framework/

In this AI marketing podcast episode, Dan Sanchez interviews 18-year-old AI prodigy Gray Mitchell, a young entrepreneur who's already building advanced AI systems that rival those of veteran marketers. Gray shares his journey from launching a dropshipping business at 15 to founding a cold email agency and now leading an AI implementation firm. His story is packed with hustle, technical deep dives, and tactical insights that show exactly how AI can revolutionize marketing through personalized outreach, content automation, SEO, and ad creation.

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Timestamps

  • 00:01:00 - Why Dan believes AI mastery is a marketer's survival skill
  • 00:02:00 - Introducing Gray Mitchell: the teen AI prodigy
  • 00:03:30 - Gray's entrepreneurial beginnings: TikTok dropshipping at 15
  • 00:08:00 - Transitioning from D2C to B2B cold outreach
  • 00:13:00 - Discovering AI and the early days of ChatGPT
  • 00:16:30 - Scaling a cold email agency with AI automation
  • 00:23:00 - Pivoting to a full-blown AI implementation agency
  • 00:29:00 - Gray's learning process: n8n, YouTube, and hundreds of hours of study
  • 00:35:00 - Automation vs agents: how Gray frames AI systems
  • 00:46:00 - Real client results: AI SEO, ad creation systems, and more
  • 00:55:00 - Custom tools vs SaaS: the future of AI marketing implementation
  • 01:00:00 - Final thoughts on where AI in business is heading
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Transcript

Why master AI in marketing?

00:00:01
Dan Sanchez
A few months ago, i warned everybody listening to this podcast that you need to start preparing. You need to start really mastering AI and honing all the different things that you can leverage as a marketer with experience to protect your career from somebody or from essentially a 16-year-old kid with chat GPT, right?
00:00:22
Dan Sanchez
Like what's stopping that person from leveraging everything AI has to offer, all the knowledge and expertise that AI has from a marketing director with 20 years of experience.

Who is Gray Mitchell?

00:00:32
Dan Sanchez
Now, of course, I don't want to rehash that episode because in that one, I talked about all the things you need to become as a marketer to be the marketer AI can't replace.
00:00:41
Dan Sanchez
And there's tons of things. I'm going to link to that in the show notes. What I'm excited about to talk about on this episode is I finally found the kid. He's not 16. He's actually 18, but it's close enough.
00:00:53
Dan Sanchez
But this is the kind of kid that armed with AI and a ton of ambition and hustle is starting to do laps around marketers, even like myself, with just a few properly trained AI tools.
00:01:07
Dan Sanchez
Now I say it as if it's simple. It's not simple. And he's put a ton of work into this, but I'm excited to learn from him. His name is Gray Mitchell and Gray, I got to say,
00:01:19
Dan Sanchez
Welcome to the AI-driven marketer.
00:01:21
Gray Mitchell
Thank you. i appreciate you having me, Dad.
00:01:24
Dan Sanchez
So you you were introduced by a mutual friend of Nate Musson, and he actually called me and was like, hey man, have this friend. I know you're into AI and he's into AI.
00:01:34
Dan Sanchez
Like, I think you two should meet. Nate has a habit of connecting me with really cool people. That's like Nate's superpower is he just, he just meets really cool people all the time.
00:01:41
Gray Mitchell
I love Nate.
00:01:44
Dan Sanchez
I don't know how he does it, but like that's his thing. and so I trusted that I'm like, you know, Nate's always been good. I'm like, there's, there's no way he could be that good. But then, you know, we met for coffee and you showed me some of the stuff you were working on. And my mind was blown. I was like, dang.
00:01:59
Dan Sanchez
I feel old now because this kid named Gray is doing way more than I do with AI. And I'm doing it full time. Like this is my gig. This is what I get paid to do now is be the AI guy at companies or even implementing it myself or I'm running a old podcast about it.
00:02:15
Dan Sanchez
And you're crushing it, man. So I want to take some time to unpack your story and get into that. But before we do, I want to say to those who are you who are listening to this, I think there's two people that are listening to this and like,
00:02:28
Dan Sanchez
I don't know if I i can handle this. One, because Gray is 18 and you're like like, I got decades of experience on him. like What can I learn from him? I'd say, be humble.
00:02:40
Dan Sanchez
Listen to this episode. You're going to learn a lot. I know because after just having an initial conversation, I'm like, I know I'm going to learn a lot. So I'm like selfishly excited to learn. Cause I'm like, I don't care where the expertise comes from. If it comes from gray, great. If it comes from someone who's 85 and crushing it with AI, I'm like, great. I will have them on the show too.
00:02:58
Dan Sanchez
the other group is people who are like, this is probably going to be too advanced. If he's running circles around Dan, then I'm probably not going to get anything. Listen to this episode because what I want to pack the most out of this is not only like some of the cool advanced things you're doing gray, but also kind of your learning process.
00:03:16
Dan Sanchez
Because what made you good so fast is, well, you just did a lot more, a lot faster than most people, even me, me and i'm I'm a pretty aggressive learner. So let's start from the beginning.

How did Gray start his AI journey?

00:03:25
Dan Sanchez
Like, how did this even start for you?
00:03:27
Dan Sanchez
Like, before you even got into AI, like, what were you doing and what kind of situation were you in where you're like, hey, this AI thing looks like a useful tool?
00:03:36
Gray Mitchell
Yeah. So do you want, so I can just, I'll give you my whole story from scratch. I'll start and then I'll, I'll, I'll normally I just kind of give the the normal story, but I'll, I'll sprinkle in the AI bits in there.
00:03:47
Gray Mitchell
as, but as it is, cause it's kind of a parallel growth. so I started by just drop shipping when I was 15, I was scrolling on Tik TOK. And I saw some drop shipping ads and you know, as, as everybody who starts off in business, you know, you start off in the baby steps, you start off in the shallow end of the pool.
00:04:03
Gray Mitchell
And so I just wanted to figure it out and I dove in and I started i i started selling a lock, a biometric fingerprint lock and marketing on TikTok organic and I didn't make a lot of money from it. Obviously, I was 15-year-old who didn't really know how to run a business, but I actually kind of i kind of went viral, I guess, out of just a chance, God's grace. I went viral you know and got my first little taste, you could say, what that was like.
00:04:28
Gray Mitchell
of of what that was like And so from there, I was basically just hooked. I was like, how do I figure this out? How do I, how do I grow?
00:04:34
Dan Sanchez
Yeah.
00:04:34
Gray Mitchell
And then I just want to figure out how to do any business. I loved it. So I went from drop shipping to try to start a TikTok ad agency. And through that, I was struggling to get clients. Obviously, a 15 year old hopping on the phone. I remember people just would look at me, you know, as soon as they'd hop on the call, they just try to get off as fast as possible.
00:04:52
Gray Mitchell
But I learned how to write really good cold emails, sales emails, right? And I was manually typing them out to people on Kickstarter. And i was learning i was just learning how to manually send these things out and book in tons of qualified appointments.
00:05:06
Gray Mitchell
And so i got โ€“ I nailed in that.
00:05:06
Dan Sanchez
Okay. po Pause with the story. I got to backtrack to get more.
00:05:08
Gray Mitchell
Yeah.
00:05:09
Dan Sanchez
to Just because this is this is where the learning comes from is you you didn't just go viral on TikTok.
00:05:13
Gray Mitchell
Mm-hmm.
00:05:15
Dan Sanchez
How many videos did you post? And what kind of videos were you testing?
00:05:18
Gray Mitchell
Well, posting three a day across different categories. I joined a number of courses to try to figure out what the ba best, best, uh, it was really fast.
00:05:23
Dan Sanchez
Across how how long of a time?
00:05:26
Gray Mitchell
Actually, it was like two weeks. The first store I ever launched went completely viral.
00:05:29
Dan Sanchez
So three day for two weeks.
00:05:29
Gray Mitchell
Got
00:05:30
Dan Sanchez
And this was back when TikTok was hot. And so it was a little easier to go viral back then.
00:05:33
Gray Mitchell
TikTok was TikTok was easy. Yeah.
00:05:35
Dan Sanchez
Yeah.
00:05:35
Gray Mitchell
Yeah, you could post anything. If you but were consistent, posted good content, and you posted a viral product, you could easily go viral. you know Post a good, interesting product, and you would go viral. Now, my next products didn't do so hot. you know I maybe got hundreds of thousands. not Not anything crazy. But I did kind of โ€“ when TikTok was super hot for that you know summer of 2022, I'd say, i was i was crushing it views. I wish I knew how to monetize it and and to actually make something โ€“ make something solid.
00:05:59
Gray Mitchell
But I was getting orders, which was really impressive. I mean, it was, you know, not a ton. It was my my view to, you know, my actual conversion rate was relatively low compared to the amount of views I was getting.
00:06:03
Dan Sanchez
Yeah.
00:06:10
Gray Mitchell
I was getting tens of millions of views probably across the whole channel.
00:06:12
Dan Sanchez
that's pretty normal for TikTok, but I saw your videos and they were interesting.
00:06:13
Gray Mitchell
So.
00:06:16
Dan Sanchez
You were one, you found a really interesting product because even as you said it, I was like, oh, that's kind of cool.
00:06:19
Gray Mitchell
You saw the TikTok.
00:06:22
Dan Sanchez
Like you can use your frame product fingerprint to unlock lock and it's visual and people can see it.
00:06:26
Gray Mitchell
Mm-hmm.
00:06:26
Dan Sanchez
I'm like, that makes sense. So that took some insight to even find a product. You're like, I could sell this on TikTok. I'm going to order a bunch of these from Alibaba or something.
00:06:34
Gray Mitchell
Alibaba. Yes, that's exactly what I did.
00:06:35
Dan Sanchez
Yeah. Yeah.
00:06:37
Gray Mitchell
Exactly what I did. I actually, I didn't even know what dropshipping was when i started dropshipping. So I technically it wasn't dropshipping, I guess, because I ordered the stock to my house, right?
00:06:41
Dan Sanchez
yeah
00:06:45
Dan Sanchez
Yeah.
00:06:45
Gray Mitchell
So that's not true dropshipping. But
00:06:47
Dan Sanchez
Were you like running to the postals, like making mail runs all the time?
00:06:50
Gray Mitchell
Yeah, every day after school i would and every day after school, I would walk in.
00:06:52
Dan Sanchez
Yeah. Yeah.
00:06:55
Gray Mitchell
I had four or five of these things that I would just put โ€“ man, this is bringing me back to some good times. so And i would put I would just put them in the bag and this lit ups or USPS lady started to learn who I was.
00:07:06
Gray Mitchell
It was like, what are you doing? Yeah. and
00:07:08
Dan Sanchez
yeah
00:07:09
Gray Mitchell
And i was I told her that I was just making i was just selling these products online. And it was really fun. We ended up you know talking quite a bit. And I even i got to know the USPS lady at my local postal office.
00:07:21
Gray Mitchell
so
00:07:21
Dan Sanchez
As I hear, I've heard a lot of different stories of entrepreneurs. i I read a lot of entrepreneurial stories and I find that like, it's never the first thing you do that ends up being the thing, but you learn through the lessons of it.
00:07:32
Dan Sanchez
And I find that entrepreneurs often have a lot of core skills and a lot of similarities to marketers.
00:07:33
Gray Mitchell
Absolutely.
00:07:38
Dan Sanchez
And that they're learning how to discern what the audience wants. It's what all good marketers do. It's what all good entrepreneurs do. And you're essentially, you're a marketer, but you're also an entrepreneur trying to figure out like what people want and how to actually get it in front of them so they actually find out about it and then want to buy it.
00:07:53
Gray Mitchell
Mm-hmm. I would say so. I would say my current role looks a little bit different than that. But I mean, I definitely did a lot more marketing. I mean, for the last two years, you know even even with sales emails, you know with my cold email agency, I was just looking to try to figure out what what decision makers at B2B companies were. Well, I guess it was D2C companies too that I was reaching out to. But I was just trying to figure out what they wanted for their customers.
00:08:14
Gray Mitchell
So that was my entire journey was figuring out, number one, I had a decent amount of experience in D2C. And then when I you know started doing stuff for B2B, and i you know I actually ended up doing a number...
00:08:24
Dan Sanchez
how How long were you doing D2C?
00:08:26
Gray Mitchell
Well, I did DTC for a few months, for and not very long, from probably so the summer of 2022 to the beginning of 2023. And then that's
00:08:35
Dan Sanchez
How many units did you sell? I'm just curious now.
00:08:38
Gray Mitchell
not that many, a couple hundred maybe, i think. Yeah, it was. And my profit margins was so low. I mean, I made a couple hundred bucks. It was nothing.
00:08:45
Dan Sanchez
Yeah.
00:08:45
Gray Mitchell
you know But
00:08:46
Dan Sanchez
It was a lot of work for not a lot of money, but you learned a lot in the process.
00:08:46
Gray Mitchell
i but
00:08:49
Dan Sanchez
You learned a lot about how TikTok worked.
00:08:50
Gray Mitchell
Yeah. You learn, you learn how to run a business. Right. So, um, So, um, but I guess, I mean, i ended up doing, so I ended up, doing some work with a groove life.
00:08:54
Dan Sanchez
Yeah. Yep.
00:09:01
Gray Mitchell
Right. So for on the DTC side, so there's still actually a client now, but on the DTC side, I ended up, you know, just writing and scripting their emails for email marketing. So I've, you know, I've been, I've been here and there on the DTC side and some of my clients are still in the DTC side.
00:09:15
Gray Mitchell
So I'm, you know, I play a hand in the space, but I'm not, I've, I've not been directly in the space. I've just been on more of a marketing and, and kind of understanding what the avatar wants and an offer side, you could say, providing value.
00:09:21
Dan Sanchez
yep
00:09:27
Dan Sanchez
So you moved from selling products on TikTok to writing
00:09:28
Gray Mitchell
Mm-hmm.

How did AI transform Gray's cold email outreach?

00:09:31
Dan Sanchez
cold emails.
00:09:32
Dan Sanchez
How long did this span last where you're like, I'm going to start pitching people on how to do better on TikTok because I've kind of figured that out?
00:09:38
Gray Mitchell
Yeah, so it was maybe โ€“ I started in July. i think I was maybe by November or December i was I was doing that. I was trying to get clients from my for a TikTok agency. That's when I started Igress Digital. That's why I called it โ€“ I called it first Igress Digital, which I came up with the name and when I was literally in Spanish class because โ€“ so It really doesn't mean anything, but my name in Spanish is Greece, G-R-I-S.
00:10:01
Gray Mitchell
And I just threw an I and an S on the end because it looks cool on some name generator and I've stuck with it ever since. So now it's now it's an actually you now it's actually a business, but it's if people always ask me where that comes from, but it's you know it's just something I've stuck with.
00:10:08
Dan Sanchez
Lego.
00:10:11
Dan Sanchez
does
00:10:17
Gray Mitchell
So, and eventually the digital kind sounded not great. So I just i just called it Igress. I had the Igress domain.
00:10:21
Dan Sanchez
but What made you transition from the TikTok thing to starting to pitch companies on this and move to a B2B space? You go D2C and then you're like, I think I could do this B2B and help people do what I was doing because I'm good at getting the attention. That's the hard part.
00:10:34
Gray Mitchell
Yes. Well, you know i understood i understood a little bit of that, but the the skill set mainly translated because i could I was starting to learn what people wanted, right? People wanted value. People wanted โ€“ business owners generally โ€“ I don't think it's a great way to operate businesses out of selfishness, but most, if you're going to put it down to a complete, you know, just, this is what it is.
00:10:56
Gray Mitchell
most business owners and, you know, everyone to some extent are self-serving. And so the answer is not to be, the answer is not to be, answer is to somewhat give them what they want, but also give them what they need.
00:11:07
Gray Mitchell
so that's kind of a popular marketing or offer term you could say. But to some extent, you have to you kind of have to feed the beast, right? You have to you have to give them what they want.
00:11:18
Gray Mitchell
And so whatever that frequently changes from what's trending to to the actual just offers that are going to help their business, right? So you know we've seen the last couple of years with Alex Ramosi's $100 million dollar offers, and then everything's basically just a value proposition for here, you know, here's the offer that that I'm running and, you know book X, Y, Z amount of appointments in the next, it's just, it's always a ah ah transformation framework.
00:11:37
Dan Sanchez
What?
00:11:41
Gray Mitchell
So X outcome in how many, how long it takes to achieve the time with the minimum amount of effort that it would take to achieve the result. Right. So that's always, that's kind of how I translated the framework into cold email, which obviously now everybody's running, you know, entire offers and, you know,
00:11:57
Gray Mitchell
they're Everybody's trying to do their go-to-market strategy with offers like that, which you know maybe is ah ah is a decent place in a low-ticket space.
00:12:01
Dan Sanchez
what
00:12:03
Gray Mitchell
but
00:12:04
Dan Sanchez
What happens after that? So you start doing cold outreach. It starts working. You get a few few clients this way. How many clients do you end up picking up doing TikTok services?
00:12:12
Gray Mitchell
No, I didn't. I was struck because I got on the โ€“ no, I didn't.
00:12:14
Dan Sanchez
You didn't.
00:12:15
Gray Mitchell
I got on the phone with them and they didn't want to work with me because I was โ€“ they saw how old I was.
00:12:18
Dan Sanchez
Too young.
00:12:20
Gray Mitchell
Yeah, so they โ€“ so what โ€“ no, I guess I didn't clarify that correctly. So I wasn't getting โ€“ I was not getting very good โ€“ I was not getting good traction trying to run other people's TikTok videos.
00:12:33
Gray Mitchell
TikTok marketing. And I ended up, I was showing my results though, for the meetings I was booking.
00:12:39
Dan Sanchez
Yeah.
00:12:39
Gray Mitchell
Right. And then people were coming to me and saying, that's like, can you do that for me? Like I want qualified booked appointments.
00:12:43
Dan Sanchez
yeah
00:12:44
Gray Mitchell
So that's what I ended up doing for people. That's what I had the, cold why I had the cold email agency. Right. So ended up trying, that was how I got into the space from transitioning from dropshipping, right.
00:12:54
Gray Mitchell
So transitioning from direct DTC to trying to go to a DTC agency.
00:12:57
Dan Sanchez
Yeah. To become on a cold email agency.
00:12:58
Gray Mitchell
Right. Right. And then I ended up becoming a cold email agency. And then that's what I did up until the summer of last year.
00:13:05
Dan Sanchez
Is that kind of where AI comes in play? Or you were probably doing some AI stuff with the email stuff because that kind of plays nice together.
00:13:07
Gray Mitchell
here
00:13:10
Gray Mitchell
Yeah. Yes, it does.
00:13:12
Dan Sanchez
So tell me about when when do you first discover AI and start using it?
00:13:12
Gray Mitchell
Yeah.
00:13:18
Gray Mitchell
I started using AI when it first came like a half a month, two or three weeks after it came out, ChatGPT came out in the end of 2022. I remember I was just sitting on a Discord call and I think somebody showed me it and I was like, yeah, that's interesting.
00:13:33
Gray Mitchell
and I kind of blew it off a little bit, but I thought it was, I started to think it was cool and I started using it, I think maybe December of that year. And at that point, not many people knew what it was.
00:13:41
Dan Sanchez
What year was this?
00:13:42
Dan Sanchez
2022.
00:13:42
Gray Mitchell
December, 2022. So not many people, not many people knew what, I mean, a decent amount of people, right?
00:13:43
Dan Sanchez
I mean, this is literally weeks after it came out.
00:13:49
Gray Mitchell
The inception, right, of it.
00:13:50
Dan Sanchez
Yeah.
00:13:50
Gray Mitchell
so that So ah ah I remember i was remember actually over Christmas, I was showing my dad, like, dad, check check out this technology. This is going to change everything.
00:13:59
Dan Sanchez
Yep.
00:14:00
Gray Mitchell
And and i I didn't realize at this point, I had no idea that I would be involved in it, right? I guess now, you know, it could say looking back, well, was inevitable after a certain amount of time. But
00:14:08
Dan Sanchez
Yep.
00:14:09
Gray Mitchell
i But later that that year, 2023, this was around the time that I was starting to scale up the cold email agency. So I started getting clients and doing work for people and started off just you know doing anything I could. And then you know as time grew up, I built an actual you know business and started serving clients and getting them booked appointments and you know started building a name for myself. And so by the end of that year, i remember we were working with Fofoma.com.
00:14:34
Gray Mitchell
and with a kind of an old business friend who I'm am still in touch with. But and I but ended up meeting him at a conference over the summer. And since then, I basically got connected with a ton of people in that group. And that's when things just took off.
00:14:48
Gray Mitchell
And I remember around that time, I started using AI for, I remember, and instantly, right, the cold email tool. It had a feature where you could integrate your ChatGPT API, your OpenAI API key.
00:14:58
Gray Mitchell
And you could get it.
00:15:00
Dan Sanchez
into your existing email cold email tool.
00:15:02
Gray Mitchell
And you could get AI to do very limited things. You could get it to you know clean lists.
00:15:06
Dan Sanchez
Yeah.
00:15:06
Gray Mitchell
And they had very like basic functions that you could get AI to kind of clean up names and do do very simple things that made made made genuinely made a big difference. So at this point, I was starting to say, oh well, this is interesting.
00:15:17
Gray Mitchell
I'm curious to see how this will continue. And, you know, AI was, you know, definitely AI has been growing, but at the at that time it was less of a, it was cool. It was definitely a cool thing.
00:15:28
Gray Mitchell
And people definitely thought, oh, this is going to get, you know, this is going to go somewhere, but I don't think people had the same vision for where it is now.
00:15:34
Dan Sanchez
yeah
00:15:37
Gray Mitchell
Yeah.
00:15:38
Dan Sanchez
Yeah. For everybody listening right now to kind of understand what AI looked like in the beginning, like to run a cold email agency, you're dealing with like databases worth of contact information.
00:15:49
Dan Sanchez
cause not, not every marketer is run cold email. you're dealing with like Excel sheets and spreadsheets worth of lists and data and the data is not all clean sometimes. So to be able to run some of the data through an AI filter and be like, Hey, look at all these rows.
00:16:02
Dan Sanchez
And if it doesn't look like this, make it like this, like clean up the data and you could run it through and kind of like clean it and make it nice.
00:16:08
Gray Mitchell
It's the concept of clay.
00:16:09
Dan Sanchez
Right.
00:16:10
Gray Mitchell
it's the concept of clay at the very basic function.
00:16:12
Dan Sanchez
Yeah.
00:16:12
Gray Mitchell
Clay just made it it accessible, right?
00:16:13
Dan Sanchez
Yeah. Yeah.
00:16:15
Gray Mitchell
So clay was getting popular probably midway through last year, right? And now everybody uses clay.
00:16:20
Dan Sanchez
Yep. Yep.
00:16:21
Gray Mitchell
So from there, from there i guess that kind of we get to 2024 now. So this is last year. And so this is when things just really took ah ah took a change, right? So I started working with a decent amount of of companies at that point. And you know I was pretty pretty confident i was in this direction for a while.
00:16:39
Gray Mitchell
And I guess summer rolls around of last year and cold emails getting pretty saturated, right? The tools are becoming more accessible. It just becomes such an easy thing for everybody to do. And the hype the hype around GTM go to market, right?
00:16:51
Gray Mitchell
The, all the hype around that was making every single business try to do, you know, try for their startup to do cold email marketing. So everybody was jumping on the cold email bandwagon because it was easy and it was cheap. People don't realize though, that you, in order, just like Facebook ads, i always always tell people you have to see cold email, like Facebook ads.
00:17:01
Dan Sanchez
Yep.
00:17:08
Gray Mitchell
yeah You aren't going to get, you're not going to get away with doing it cheaply because people think it's the cheap alternative, right? That it's going to get you clients, but it's, it's really not. It functions at a same, you know, you have, you have your target audience, you're reaching out to those people and you know, you have a certain spend.
00:17:24
Gray Mitchell
that you're going to spend on different qualities ah ah throughout the cold email process, just like you would spend on meta ads, right? You have the creative, you have the targeting, you have the pixels, you have the tracking, you have, you have the actual, you know, the the scripting and the ads and the budget, right?
00:17:30
Dan Sanchez
yep
00:17:33
Dan Sanchez
A list. Yeah.
00:17:39
Gray Mitchell
You have all those things. And in cold email, it was, you know, you have the the infrastructure and that that was ah ah just a deep rabbit hole. You had the the list, so the quality of the data, you had the what you're going to do with that data, you had the actual sequencing, the tool.
00:17:52
Gray Mitchell
I mean, the list goes on, right? you had There's a lot of moving parts to it. And so what happens is everybody was just convinced that they could just jump on instantly because you know that just blew up instantly the whole instantly campaign. They made cold emails super popular.
00:18:05
Gray Mitchell
So everybody jumped on and and was trying to run a cold email campaigns. But what's happening is they were just spamming. They said, oh, it's not working. Let's just send more volume. So it became this crappy volume game.
00:18:15
Gray Mitchell
And everybody started using these mass suppliers of these just terrible reputation emails that that were โ€“ I mean, if you go to the spam โ€“ all the spam checkers, they were just blacklisted, all the IPs that they were coming from.
00:18:27
Dan Sanchez
So you're
00:18:28
Gray Mitchell
So now you have IP rotation all that stuff, but that's that wasn't even that wasn't much of a consideration at that time. so you would So all these people were just jacking up the amount of emails they would send. And so it would just go, oh, like a thousand emails a month isn't working. Let's jack it up to 10,000 and a hundred thousand. And soon we're getting videos on the internet saying, send it um um million emails a month. And it's you know at that point, we're just talking about pure spam, right? It's just not even...
00:18:51
Gray Mitchell
you know You could argue that a large campaign could be that, but the quality was just was lacking.
00:18:56
Dan Sanchez
so
00:18:56
Gray Mitchell
And so Cody Mill developed that bad reputation.
00:18:56
Dan Sanchez
europe you're building a cold email agency on the side because you're, you only just graduated from high school.
00:19:05
Gray Mitchell
Yes, i was I was in high school when I โ€“ so I was building this well when I wasn't in school. And starting in in my junior year, I went part-time at my school so I could focus more on my business. So that that i was like I was going full-time and I go to โ€“ I went to a classical. I say go to. I guess I just graduated like two months ago.
00:19:22
Gray Mitchell
or a month and half ago.
00:19:22
Dan Sanchez
Yep.
00:19:23
Gray Mitchell
But I, so I graduated from a ah ah classical Christian school so that the workload was quite a bit. And at a certain point, you know, i kind of went back and forth with my parents trying to tell them I didn't want to go to college.
00:19:34
Gray Mitchell
and and a And at a certain point, they They kind of saw what I was doing and saw you know the momentum, and they said, okay, like i we see what you're doing. and then you know i i mean i was so I was so done with school.
00:19:45
Gray Mitchell
don't know if I told you this. i may I may have told you this. I was waking up at 2.30 in the morning and working from 2.30 a.m. or it was like 2.30 or 2.45, and I would wake up and I would work until 6, 6, 6.30, and then I would go to school and then come home, do homework, go to sleep, and do it again.
00:20:00
Gray Mitchell
So I had very limited limiteds of time to work. And it was just the only time I could productively do it because by the time I was done with school, i was already so exhausted, like 7 p.m.
00:20:05
Dan Sanchez
So what time were you going to bed?
00:20:09
Gray Mitchell
So, yeah.
00:20:09
Dan Sanchez
Yeah.
00:20:11
Gray Mitchell
So, yeah.
00:20:13
Dan Sanchez
so it's like everyone's got the same amount of time in the day.
00:20:14
Gray Mitchell
It was intense. I managed to keep up with...
00:20:17
Dan Sanchez
you're going to bed early, waking up extremely early, but you're also going to bed extremely early for most people. Seven to eight is pretty, pretty dang early. it's not, it's not a great, it's, you're not like not sleeping, you're sleeping, but you're freaking hustling when everybody else is asleep.
00:20:25
Gray Mitchell
It's early for me now.
00:20:33
Dan Sanchez
And how long did you, how many, what were you doing that every day?
00:20:33
Gray Mitchell
It was hard. Yeah.
00:20:37
Dan Sanchez
Or is that like five days a week?
00:20:38
Gray Mitchell
yeah Yeah. Five.
00:20:40
Dan Sanchez
You still do that?
00:20:40
Gray Mitchell
Yeah. Pretty much, pretty much the week. and No, no, no, no.
00:20:43
Dan Sanchez
yeah
00:20:44
Gray Mitchell
I wake up. Sometimes I roll. It depends on what, if have meetings in the early in the morning, but now, now I wake up, you know, either so I'll wake up at six or seven or I'll wake up at like 10 AM.
00:20:48
Dan Sanchez
yeah
00:20:53
Gray Mitchell
m I mean, it just depends on how late I'm up.
00:20:54
Dan Sanchez
yeah because you're full time now you don't need to
00:20:54
Gray Mitchell
Sometimes I'll be up. Yeah, sometimes I'll be late up late having to build, you know, finish something up for clients. And so I'll be, you know, I'll be i'll be up and building. then, you know, wake up super late. And sometimes I'll get up early. You know, this morning I got up at probably 7.30. yeah.
00:21:09
Gray Mitchell
so yeah
00:21:10
Dan Sanchez
So for those of you who are listening, like yeah just think about the math real quick of like the price he's paid in order to get where he's at. It's doable for anybody, but it does take a considerable amount of time of hustle for a couple of years because you're 18.
00:21:24
Gray Mitchell
Oh yeah.
00:21:25
Dan Sanchez
You started when you were 15 and you're like, you've done a lot of stuff in between in between these times, but it's only a three-year period.
00:21:25
Gray Mitchell
The first two years were not fun.
00:21:32
Dan Sanchez
Yes, you're waking up at 2.30, you're going to bed early and then just waking up earlier and spending a couple hours a day before school every single day.
00:21:39
Gray Mitchell
Absolutely. Yeah, it was tough.
00:21:39
Dan Sanchez
learning was most of it just working or you like learning during that time too and watching YouTube videos and how to make it better?
00:21:45
Gray Mitchell
Yeah, learning. I remember I had like, Iman Godzi leaked courses and all, you know, I had all the, I actually developed a giant list of all the leaked courses and I was just trying to learn and implement. So I was just literally figuring it out I mean, I had no, I was just trying to figure it out.
00:22:00
Gray Mitchell
So I mean, I remember, i remember after a couple months, it messed up my bodily cycle so much trying to go from that and then back to normal on the weekends. And it was just, it was really difficult.
00:22:10
Gray Mitchell
And it felt because by the time i went to school, it was already felt like noon to me. it was so it it was really It was really, really tough, to be honest. I think I only maintained that solid for two or three months, and then I finally switched back.
00:22:21
Gray Mitchell
But at that point, once I went part-time, that's when I finally started to get โ€“ I was able to get a little bit more momentum, you could say, and started work with more clients.
00:22:27
Dan Sanchez
Yeah. Yeah.
00:22:29
Gray Mitchell
and and and it was really It was really just blessed to have the opportunity to do that. Yeah. and And, you know, that was, I think that was really solid for for my growth.
00:22:39
Gray Mitchell
And then, you know, i was, you know, I ended up at that point, point I remember teachers were getting mad at me because I, in 11th grade and junior year, I ended up skipping a school a lot for different meetings. And then they the school was kind of upset about with me. we
00:22:52
Dan Sanchez
yeah
00:22:52
Gray Mitchell
That didn't fly last year. Yeah.
00:22:54
Dan Sanchez
So you transition from email, you start going into becoming an AI agency. Is that right?
00:22:59
Gray Mitchell
Yeah, I'll give you the transition because this is this is where people like, how did you go from you know cold email to to an AI implementation agency?
00:23:04
Dan Sanchez
Yeah.
00:23:07
Gray Mitchell
So... was saying was As I was saying, it was saturated, right? The cold email market. it was yeah Everybody was doing it it was And so I wanted my product to stand out because I'm like, I know this works, but it's just becoming hyper-competitive and everybody's everybody's doing it and everybody's doing a crappy job.
00:23:21
Gray Mitchell
And so the old method just is not going to work. And so you just kind of have to level up your game, almost like we're seeing now and in every industry almost. So โ€“ so had You had to level up your game.
00:23:31
Gray Mitchell
And so the way I i did and went about doing this was I spent around four or five months building a cold email ah a cold email system, an AI cold email platform, you could say. i automated my whole agency and got AI to to run it and to hyper-personalize all the emails.
00:23:48
Gray Mitchell
So every lead, I mean, I knew it like how many dogs they have, like any information that was on any any public forum, any article, I knew all the information about them. I knew all the information about their company, their pain points, exactly what they were looking for, who they were hiring for. So we got deep insides on that. And then we striped all kinds of data around them as well.
00:24:06
Gray Mitchell
And then we would use that to pair that with the client. the the client offerings to actually personalize that email and provide the most relevant email for them.
00:24:12
Dan Sanchez
Yep. Yep.
00:24:15
Gray Mitchell
Right. So, you know, a relevant email could look like, hey, Dan, I see you're like the AI marketer. Wouldn't it be super incredible if you had a network of people to go to who who were who knew who are experts in every single industry of AI marketing?
00:24:28
Gray Mitchell
And you would say, of course, like, let's jump on a call and talk about it. So every, of course it was, so was hyper-personalized, right? So you might take a general offer that's, you know, in an insurance firm, right? I can think of one insurance company we ended up working for.
00:24:40
Gray Mitchell
It was the whole, they're the largest healthcare care provider and the entire healthcare marketing company. So their integrity marketing group, integrity.com. So they were, they were rolling up smaller insurance agents and companies into their portfolio, right?
00:24:53
Gray Mitchell
So they were, their whole thing was buying up, ah buying, buying up essentially companies, right?
00:24:58
Dan Sanchez
all that in the market. yeah
00:24:59
Gray Mitchell
Yeah. So, yeah. we were able to to target each individual insurance company based on what they provided, based on what the information we knew about them to actually get them really interested because they had already heard of integrity and just made the the thing an easy sell.
00:25:13
Gray Mitchell
So they could all they would all just jump on there and they were you know they were they were looking for them to get bought. So I mean, everybody, you know that that was a super easy offer to run. So that's just an example that comes to mind.
00:25:24
Gray Mitchell
I mean, the it's why you know this effect is widespread. so you can do this across any industry because that personalization.
00:25:28
Dan Sanchez
Yeah. Yeah.
00:25:31
Gray Mitchell
Now, obviously, personalization is getting a little bit more standardized, as you could say. you know It's just generally, if you're not personalized and you're not having the same reach. So now we're almost reverting back, you could say, the other way where the offers just as you know the thing you're having is just as important because we almost have this pendulum where you go back and forth.
00:25:47
Dan Sanchez
yeah
00:25:47
Gray Mitchell
Exactly.
00:25:48
Dan Sanchez
So you supercharge your agency with AI. It becomes hyper-personalized email.
00:25:50
Gray Mitchell
Exactly.
00:25:51
Dan Sanchez
But even more than that, you're doing a lot of things with AI now. You start to get more clients doing cold email outreach. And then you're like, man, I'm going to dig deeper into this AI thing.
00:26:02
Gray Mitchell
And then i turn and then ah ah over the course of four to five months, I automate my entire business. I mean, i I had people who all they did is that they responded. you know They just checked all day and responded to emails the you know to the responses because if you respond with to the female email within the first five minutes, you have something like a 75% higher chance of you know booking a meeting with them.
00:26:21
Gray Mitchell
So Basically, just respond to them instantly, just be at their you know disposal, and be be there as a resource for them.
00:26:22
Dan Sanchez
Yeah. Yeah.
00:26:26
Gray Mitchell
And then people will you know be much more likely to work with you. so But we were able to get AI to do that. And so it would be able to handle all the all the questions they might have, book them on the calendar and handle based on lead statuses.
00:26:37
Gray Mitchell
and so And then the entire backend process for how we got this data was all automated as well, because I learned the skill sets on how to do it on the front end. So I basically built is kind of a centralized platform.
00:26:45
Dan Sanchez
yeah
00:26:49
Gray Mitchell
for managing the cold email agency. And so my plan was to run with that. And so I'll give you the transition. So this is where it transitions to AI. So I know you've been waiting a while for me to give you that. Where does it where does this become AI?
00:27:01
Gray Mitchell
And so I i was going to run with that. I started planning on how i was going to run my ads and do the the outreach you know use my tool to actually get the to book the leads and getting sales. I mean, I had an entire process planned out.
00:27:14
Gray Mitchell
And around... you know, December, January, started to have companies come to me and say, that's super cool. Like they saw the demo and the stuff I was putting out. They said, that's super cool. But if you could build, you know, XYZ for us, you can build something on our, on our marketing side. If can build something on our finance side,
00:27:31
Gray Mitchell
Then that would be way more valuable. And so I started building different systems for these companies. And this was way more lucrative, I found, than the colon email system, even though the colon email system was lucrative in itself.
00:27:43
Gray Mitchell
So it kind of had this opening. you know this you know You open the door and just realize it's a whole world. And it's not just applicable to cold email, but this is applicable to everything. And so if, and then if, if this technology had the same effect on my cold email agency, I could only imagine the endless possibilities of what it's going to change, transform the world. And that was when I got bought into AI.
00:28:02
Gray Mitchell
I got bought into ai when I saw it actually 10 X my actual business. then now I'm on a mission to 100x good. my My mission statement for IGRIS is we exist to help good companies 100x the good they're doing. And AI is our vessel for that.
00:28:19
Gray Mitchell
So that's how we got to here.
00:28:20
Dan Sanchez
and now you're working with companies as like a general purpose, essentially AI automation agency.

What broader solutions does Gray's agency offer?

00:28:26
Gray Mitchell
Exactly. we're you know glo i like I don't like the word AI automation because that's becoming a buzz term on the internet, like SMMA almost, right? But we're we're more on the custom implementation side, not just building simple automations. So we're building you know we're solving real constraints within real medium and enterprise level businesses with AI, but that's that's exactly it.
00:28:47
Gray Mitchell
we're we're just building We're building solutions for for companies that they actually face.
00:28:51
Dan Sanchez
Now, I want to talk about some of the solutions that you're building and what you're finding works for businesses. But before we do that, I want to talk a little bit more about your learning process for AI. Like, you've been deep into this for a year.
00:29:03
Dan Sanchez
finger
00:29:04
Gray Mitchell
Yeah.
00:29:05
Dan Sanchez
what What have you been doing to learn AI? Are you just, you said at some point you were like, oh, I'm finding courses that have been leaked and just reading all the information and learning it. But what are you doing for AI specifically? What have been some of your tried and true, like, oh, when I learn want to learn more,
00:29:18
Dan Sanchez
about the technical side of AI. These are my go-to sources. this is what I'm doing.
00:29:23
Gray Mitchell
Yeah. So right now I'm actually just kind of buying every course and then pulling all the value from them. And I have like an AI system that just is extracting all the, everything from these big school, you know, school circle, all the big name platforms. And it just extracts all the data and we have a giant, we have a giant repository of all this data.
00:29:39
Gray Mitchell
So we're, we're scraping templates and courses and everything you can imagine. My plan to do with that, to do what what I want to do with that is just turn that into an AI agent that I can then retrieve the most relevant stuff. So that's speeding up our development process.
00:29:51
Dan Sanchez
Mm-hmm.
00:29:51
Gray Mitchell
just across different you know code files and prompts and all the resources that we have.
00:29:55
Gray Mitchell
The way I started though was literally just YouTube. I started by just going on YouTube and finding, and you'll be, if you look up, and here's the thing, because there's a lot of content on NAN specifically. The biggest jump is to go from, because I started by just make.com or Zapier or whatever.
00:30:10
Gray Mitchell
And then I jumped from that to NAN. And that's when you really get into the actual code or the actual development side. You're really doing real stuff. So obviously it doesn't end there. There's stuff now. There's way more exciting stuff.
00:30:20
Gray Mitchell
People there's, there's things that are way better than NAN and we can get into that, but this is where we're just even starting to break. You know, our developers are cracking into that stuff and actually developing some, some serious, robust coded systems, but you can go on YouTube and just learn.
00:30:31
Dan Sanchez
Yeah.
00:30:34
Gray Mitchell
If you look up the X, like XYZ problem you're trying to solve. So let's say you're trying to do you're trying to master YouTube content. Just look up YouTube content, AI, NAN, and, a n and A ton of results will come up on and, and, and just, and people give out free workflows.
00:30:46
Dan Sanchez
There's hundreds of videos. Yeah.
00:30:50
Gray Mitchell
So the, the real strategy is just go find the, the one that looks like has the beefiest workflow and a ton of people saying, Oh, this is doing great. Not the ones that are sent not, not don't go to the big one, the big YouTubers, a couple of them are good.
00:31:02
Gray Mitchell
Liam Otley, Nick, Sarah, they're all, they're okay. But if you go to the big ones there, you know, you know, that's what everybody's going to. And they're just typically simple automations. But it's typically the small YouTubers that, you know, have spent the last three months building this crazy system and they give it away for free and basically just to get YouTube hype.
00:31:20
Gray Mitchell
So that's where the the real magic's at. And sometimes you got to pay, you know, 25 bucks on Gumroad or, you know, join their $100 a month subscription and get the course. But that's that's kind of what, that's I mean, that's still what we're doing. We're taking that data And we're just getting, i mean, I'm in probably five or 10 courses at a time, just going through them, extracting all the value from them.
00:31:40
Gray Mitchell
And then I,
00:31:40
Dan Sanchez
When you say extracting the value from them, as in you're reading it and watching it and then trying it.
00:31:46
Gray Mitchell
well, yeah, and I'll just take all the links because they you just pay a hundred bucks a month for their, you know, guru subscription. And then you just get, just get all the YouTube videos and the download the, the JSON files and an ann and then import them.
00:31:57
Gray Mitchell
And then you just figure out how to build it.
00:31:57
Dan Sanchez
Yeah.
00:31:59
Gray Mitchell
Yeah. And get all the air table files.
00:31:59
Dan Sanchez
Yeah. But you're you're taking their templates, reverse engineering them and kind of understanding what they did and why it works.
00:32:00
Gray Mitchell
Yeah.
00:32:04
Gray Mitchell
Exactly. And you understand why why it works.
00:32:05
Dan Sanchez
Yeah.
00:32:07
Gray Mitchell
and then you can And then you can turn that into whatever. If you want to build a SaaS on lovable or you know cursor, then you can do that. you want to build a If you want to just make their in-and-end flow better for what you're doing, you can do that.
00:32:17
Dan Sanchez
Yeah.
00:32:17
Gray Mitchell
So, I mean, there's really infinite possibilities. That's one of the best value hacking methods.
00:32:22
Dan Sanchez
So i want to recap this really quick for people who are listening, because that when you say extract, that can mean a lot of different things, whether you're just storing it for a start later. But you you i this one of the questions I asked you when we originally met for coffee.
00:32:30
Gray Mitchell
That's what Yeah. yeah
00:32:34
Dan Sanchez
I asked you, I'm like, when did you discover NAN? You told me, i think, September. And then I'm like, how many YouTube videos have you watched on this? And you were like, oh, easily 100, 200, maybe pushing You'd watched hundreds of videos And I'm like, this is what's required in order to learn some of these things. NAN is pretty difficult. It's not ChatGPT, okay?
00:32:55
Dan Sanchez
Like, if you think ChatGPT is complicated, it's like, okay, well, like, we haven't really...
00:32:55
Gray Mitchell
Well, yes.
00:32:59
Dan Sanchez
NAN is much more complicated because it's really built and designed for developers and uses their language and vocabulary.
00:33:07
Gray Mitchell
Well, the cool thing is it's it's entry level.
00:33:07
Dan Sanchez
You don't need to know how to code to use AN, but it's using their...
00:33:10
Gray Mitchell
level
00:33:12
Dan Sanchez
it's using their theyre kind of it's It's like Photoshop uses all the different vocabulary of what used to be darkroom photography manipulation, right? it's You don't have to know how to do darkroom photography and development.
00:33:28
Dan Sanchez
In order to use Photoshop, but it like it uses all the vocabulary, which is what any ends doing it. You have to know a little bit about how all the technical stuff works, which just takes hours and hours and hours and hours of study but that's what you put in over in the last year.
00:33:43
Gray Mitchell
Yeah, I agree. i think, you know, to be an encouragement, though, it's it's honestly, once you can make the jump, if you can, anybody can do Zapier, anybody can learn it. It's easy, right? Well, maybe it's, you know, it took me, I mean, to put it in perspective, though, I remember, I guess it was earlier at the beginning of 2024.
00:33:58
Gray Mitchell
four Earlier last year, I struggled to i couldn't build a Zapier flow, just so you know, like I struggled to build a Zapier flow. So to, to give you the, you know, to give you the, the experience of how much I've jumped in a little over a year, was struggling to build Zapier, you know, automations.
00:34:18
Gray Mitchell
And now we're, you know, hard coding custom, you know, we're coding with cursor. You know, we're obviously doing a lot of NAN. But it's it's, you know, it takes definitely takes some time, but I don't think NAN is a massive jump.
00:34:31
Gray Mitchell
So the barrier is kind of like, if you can do Zapier, you can do make.com. And then make.com is just an easy transition to NAN. And there's tons of YouTube videos out there that'll give you the the rundown of all the functions and how to use the system. you know If you sit down for a day, you can figure out the basic functions.
00:34:48
Gray Mitchell
You can figure out how to execute a node. You can figure out how to maybe send an HTTP request. You can figure out how to you know configure ah your configure ah your authentication and understand how data flows. And if you can learn those things, then all of a sudden you're off to the races.
00:35:01
Gray Mitchell
And then it's just about finding the right people in the right niches that you can follow.
00:35:01
Dan Sanchez
Yep.
00:35:05
Gray Mitchell
Right. So on a marketing, side so all of of your, you know, all of your listeners are marketers. And so they want to, I'm sure they're, they're curious about how do we, how do we build like AI is cool and AI automation is cool, but how do we get AI to actually do our marketing?
00:35:18
Gray Mitchell
Yeah. And that's that's where it gets really exciting, right? Because you can talk about, I mean, SEO, paid ads, organic content, socials. I mean, the list goes the list is just infinite. And this is, I think, where where it gets really exciting and probably probably the most interesting for your listeners.
00:35:31
Dan Sanchez
Yeah.
00:35:32
Gray Mitchell
Yeah.
00:35:33
Dan Sanchez
And for a lot of people listening, I think that's the hard part with AI right now is you're like, wait, what can it do? You're like, well, like, what's the process for what you're currently doing? Or maybe you don't have a process and you're winging it every time, which I'm surprised like a lot of marketing teams are literally just come up with everything without a process. They're just like, oh, we need to come up with this. So they come up with that. We need to come up with this. They come up with that.
00:35:52
Dan Sanchez
But there's not really a process in order to come up with it. They just come up with stuff when they need to. But if you can build a process, chances are you can figure out what parts of the process AI can do, if not all of it sometimes.
00:36:04
Gray Mitchell
Exactly.
00:36:04
Dan Sanchez
that's when you start looking at and software programs like NAN.
00:36:09
Dan Sanchez
That's a dumb name. It's N8N8. Like letter N, number eight, letter N dot IO is the company. That's what I use for a lot of my marketing automation because I just actually found it to be even easier than make.com because if you take the NAN, I think it's easier because they have the little assistant baked into it.
00:36:24
Gray Mitchell
Easier.
00:36:29
Dan Sanchez
This is assuming you don't host it yourself.
00:36:29
Gray Mitchell
Oh. Yeah, well, yeah, if you're if you're doing any kind of operations.
00:36:31
Dan Sanchez
have If you host it with them, you get this little AI assistant that it can help you troubleshoot stuff. And it's smart enough to know contextually what you're trying to do-ish and what node you're on.
00:36:42
Dan Sanchez
which And then it goes and scrapes all the forms of what people have figured out worked before because you you kind of have to troubleshoot it constantly.
00:36:45
Gray Mitchell
It's really helpful.
00:36:49
Dan Sanchez
Yeah.
00:36:49
Gray Mitchell
I still use it to this day.
00:36:49
Dan Sanchez
Yeah.
00:36:50
Gray Mitchell
i will import my the the data I'm working with and import it.
00:36:51
Dan Sanchez
yeah
00:36:54
Gray Mitchell
Usually I'll do it if I have a code issue and I'm like, that you know, the cloud's not working because it doesn't contextually understand what I'm trying to do. And I just can't figure it out if I get stuck, which, you know, occasionally happens.
00:37:01
Dan Sanchez
yeah
00:37:04
Gray Mitchell
Then I'll just import it to the cloud instance and and I'll just get AI to say, all right, just rewrite this whole whole code script.
00:37:07
Dan Sanchez
know
00:37:10
Gray Mitchell
You know what, like how how how it should be written. you know, and for the data to correctly flow exactly how you want. And then it'll do it. So obviously, if you're trying to run operations on any scalable type of situation, self-host is without a doubt the best way to go.
00:37:25
Dan Sanchez
yeah yeah
00:37:26
Gray Mitchell
But I think in in cloud is doable for unless you're trying to run thousands of operations a month. I think, you know, most marketers don't need to don't need to do that much. So they they could probably just roll with the
00:37:36
Dan Sanchez
I like the cloud version because of the file size requirements. i'm I'm using this whole podcast after we're done recording, i I will hit it and then I will edit it and then it will move this whole video file, which this is gonna be like a 50 minute long thing, I'm sure.
00:37:50
Dan Sanchez
That's a big video file. Self-hosted and NAN would cost a ton of money, but NAN cloud hosted version can handle that massive file and then upload it to YouTube, which is what I wanted to do, so.
00:37:52
Gray Mitchell
Yeah, the self-hosted instance cannot do that.
00:38:01
Gray Mitchell
Yeah, i don't think you could I don't think you could upload. Yeah, you couldn't push this data to to in a and self-host if you wanted.
00:38:09
Dan Sanchez
You could, you just cost a lot for that server space.
00:38:11
Gray Mitchell
Well, you would need a massive server.
00:38:13
Dan Sanchez
Yeah.
00:38:13
Gray Mitchell
practically you shouldn't it Practically, at that point, it just makes more sense to hard code.
00:38:13
Dan Sanchez
And no, it's not, it costs too much.
00:38:17
Gray Mitchell
Yeah. Yeah.
00:38:19
Dan Sanchez
So that's why i I use the cloud version. So NAM, it's a great tool. It can do a lot. it's gotten more sophisticated recently, or I guess it's actually had this for a while, probably even, i don't know how long it's had this, at least since January when I first started digging into it.
00:38:34
Dan Sanchez
it has an agent mode to it. Before agents were actually starting to enter ChatGPT now, and we have like ChatGPT agent, and that's starting to get interesting. So wanna, before we dive into like NAN, what you're doing with agents there, like what do you think the status of agents are with AI?
00:38:50
Gray Mitchell
Agents are interesting. I think agents, the way I've always described it as is like, you know, ah if you have a line and on one extreme, you have automation and on the other extreme, you have agentics.
00:39:02
Gray Mitchell
And the way to break it down is automation would be A causes B, B yes, no CD, right? So it's it's a programmatic, it's a straight, just programmatic selection of data.
00:39:12
Dan Sanchez
Yeah.
00:39:15
Gray Mitchell
Now, AI is โ€“ the problem people make is AI โ€“ people think AI is this magic tool that's going to change their business and all they got to do is put it in place. If they can figure out this magic code, it's going to come in and do it and do everything they ever wanted.
00:39:29
Gray Mitchell
And it's really not like that. The way I've always described it to my clients and you know to anybody who I talk to about it is it's more โ€“ this is and this this on the agentic side. It's more like โ€“ it's more like a supercharged virtual assistant. you know it's a It's a really, really just context-full virtual assistant.
00:39:49
Gray Mitchell
And obviously, it's going to struggle with certain things. But if you were to hire a virtual assistant, you know you would run through your process. You wouldn't just say, hey, go figure this out, right? Because you understand that they're not an executive. you know Maybe they have experience of different in different fields, but they haven't you know done this 100 times. Typically, it's a one-off task or it's something that you need them to do that they likely you know aren't trained on how you would want it done.
00:40:11
Gray Mitchell
So that, you know, what you do is you just say, here's how I would do it. And then you SOP that and you break down exactly how you would want the virtual assistant to do it. And so that's exactly what you're doing when you're doing essentially AI infused automation, right?
00:40:25
Gray Mitchell
And so it's like this, there's a spectrum, right?
00:40:25
Dan Sanchez
Yeah.
00:40:27
Gray Mitchell
Some systems are more agentic by nature. build some some pretty almost fully agentic systems that have, yeah ah ah you know, I think of front end agents that have capabilities to text and call tools and query data and make decisions on backend information.
00:40:45
Gray Mitchell
that's That's almost purely agentic, right? And it's it's programmatic to call it can call certain things programmatically.
00:40:52
Dan Sanchez
yeah
00:40:53
Gray Mitchell
That's very agentic.
00:40:53
Dan Sanchez
Yeah. Would you say that when something's more agentic or on that spectrum, it can deal with more ambiguity? It has more tools and more more opportunities to deal with and undefined paths or undefined requests and it could just deal with more.
00:40:59
Gray Mitchell
Yes.
00:41:05
Gray Mitchell
So there's like,
00:41:09
Gray Mitchell
exactly.
00:41:10
Dan Sanchez
Not everything, but it has more latitude.
00:41:10
Gray Mitchell
There's, exactly. There's, there's like a, almost if you picture like a graph, right? There's on, on when one end you have efficiency and on the other end you have ambiguity.
00:41:21
Gray Mitchell
And so you can imagine that it's, it's like a a spectrum. So the farther, the farther right you would go, right? The farther on along the graph you would go, the more the the the more the agent can handle ambiguity. That's why when chat to talk to chat GPT, any LLM is a predictive model, right? It's a random, ah it's a, it's a random, it's, it's by its nature, it's random, but it's a predictive model.
00:41:42
Gray Mitchell
So, and so the way to, the way to deal with something like that is it's not going to be the best at doing any one thing, just like you know that the automation is going to consistently output exactly what you want, right? But with ambiguity, you get reason, right? Because that's how humans make decisions. Humans don't make decisions.
00:41:59
Gray Mitchell
Yes, no, right? here so I mean, that's ultimately you're trying to get down to, but humans, there's it's complex and they um um understand nuance and they understand tone and that's you know that's how our language does. So you know If you can artificially train this kind of reasoning model, then you could get you can kind of go along the spectrum. So let's say your task is just needs to be very black, yes and yes or no.
00:42:20
Gray Mitchell
Then you can get ai ai to very clearly give you exactly the the reason you want based on the context, right? So if you give feed AI the right context, you feed it the right this shows decision-making criteria, it can make that decision very easily.
00:42:32
Dan Sanchez
Yep.
00:42:32
Gray Mitchell
easily.
00:42:32
Dan Sanchez
yep
00:42:32
Gray Mitchell
So that would be example of something that's more AI automation, right It's not all the way automation, it's AI-infused automation. it's reason It's reasonable automation. And if you go on the other end, if you're talking to Chat2BT, you're purely talking to Agentix.
00:42:45
Gray Mitchell
So it's very little it's very little automation involved, right? It's not streamlined. I'm sure Chat2BT has processes, right? But it's a very complex, large, black box type model.
00:42:55
Dan Sanchez
Yeah, even more so with their new agent tool, right, which now has the ability to go and do stuff for you on the web.
00:42:56
Gray Mitchell
And so
00:43:02
Dan Sanchez
And it's totally open ended as far as to what it can do for you on the web.
00:43:05
Gray Mitchell
Right.
00:43:05
Dan Sanchez
mean, if you give it locket credentials, it could technically do a lot for you on the web reliably.
00:43:06
Gray Mitchell
That's very cool.
00:43:10
Dan Sanchez
Not so much yet, but coming.
00:43:10
Gray Mitchell
Well, before we had OpenAI Operator, which was kind of in a preview mode, the we didn't really โ€“ we tried to use it a little bit, but there's no API either, which means you know basically for โ€“ in techno jargon, that means that you're not able to call it with backend systems to do stuff.
00:43:14
Dan Sanchez
Yeah.
00:43:27
Gray Mitchell
You can't programmatically tell this agent to go out and do these things on a set time basis. And you know you can't really run it like a true โ€“ automated backend. And so we actually self hosted this thing called Skyvern, which is a browser agent. It's like open AI operator, but it has credentials, right? It has passwords and two factor authentication. And so it has all these different tools and you can give it the prompt on here's what I want you to do. And you can actually train this thing on on to go do it now hit or miss for more complex Top topics. Obviously, it's just giving an AI model access to, you know, a computer like a normal person would use. So it kind of struggled somewhat, but you could definitely get it to you could refine it to do the same thing over and over again and do it pretty consistently, assuming you had the right data.
00:44:11
Gray Mitchell
And so that allowed access to, if there's not an API, right, if there's not a backend automated way to do things, it allowed us to do any task you could possibly conjure up. And obviously that technology is very new. There's a new one that came out called Scrappy Barra.
00:44:26
Gray Mitchell
should check that one out. We're looking at that one right now, but that's actually, you know, essentially a remote desktop that AI models have access to. And you can also self-host that one as well. The downside is these things are typically difficult to self-host, but i will say, I think Scrappy, I don't know if Scrappy Bar has a cloud hosted version. We're not generally so interested in that because it's, you know, less control and typically way more expensive to run and not practical. on a client basis but skyburn you can actually there's a cloud version and so you can go and play with that you can just go and and and you can sign up for an account and it'll give you some credits and you can give it your authentication and that's actually how we were trying to build certain systems when it just came out and there was no api we actually ended up figuring out how to build it to consistently output certain level of content and then send that to our back-end systems
00:45:11
Dan Sanchez
What are some of the things that you're building for clients that you find are actually unlocking the most value for your clients?

What AI tools did Gray's agency develop?

00:45:17
Gray Mitchell
Let's talk about marketing, given that this is an AI marketing podcast, because there's an entire section we could dedicate to back-end customer friend facing and then back-end operations as well, which is kind of the general direction we're moving in as an agency.
00:45:30
Gray Mitchell
But in terms of marketing, this is oh this is exciting. So we I would say some of the biggest levers we're able to pull and some of the things we've developed have been, we've developed an AI SEO system that's actually good. So it's it's the we like to do things on a custom basis because because the more templatized you try to make it, you're trying to put a, the whole nature of AI is custom.
00:45:53
Gray Mitchell
That's the the entire point of it that's not ah automation. It's AI. And so what people are trying to do is they're trying to go and build all these SaaS platforms, which I think are great. I think there's tremendous value. And I think a lot of them can do stuff very well.
00:46:04
Gray Mitchell
But the problem is is that they struggle to understand the context of your company, which is the entire point of AI. is it's It's like having ah ah an employee. yeah That's what people want. And so ah some of the cool things we've developed have been an AI SEO system that takes the data of the company and then it's actually able to accurately, it's able to research all based on all the data and find the biggest keywords with the lowest competition that it can then target.
00:46:28
Gray Mitchell
And then using that keyword that creates essentially a plan. Here's the articles we want to produce. Here's the the target audience. Here's you know all the information based on the outcome that we're trying to get to, right? Targeting these sorts of customers with this kind of content, with this kind of tone.
00:46:42
Gray Mitchell
And then it actually puts up and writes that plan, researches it, and then also pulls information about the company, given the data that it has about the company that we've uploaded to ah ah backend system, you know RAG and graph,
00:46:54
Gray Mitchell
graph databases. And so it actually pulls that data and then it it writes the articles in the same tone that they would write it in. It's very, and you know, does hyperlinks, everything that an SEO agency might do, everything that, you know, and a blog full-time blog writer would do.
00:47:04
Dan Sanchez
yeah
00:47:07
Gray Mitchell
And I mean, that that can be infinitely scalable. And currently, i mean, we're having it pump out five articles a day now at this point for one of our clients. So it's, I mean, hypothetically, you pump out a hundred if you were like a news company, but, you know, obviously there's a certain limit to where, you know, you're getting
00:47:20
Dan Sanchez
Google's got to flag you for writing too much too fast. Yeah.
00:47:23
Gray Mitchell
Right. And there's a big misconception. So everybody thinks that good that platforms don't want AI content, that you know Google, Bing, they think that ah ah SEO company, they think that engines, search engines don't want AI content, but that's kind of a misconception.
00:47:40
Gray Mitchell
They don't want bad content.
00:47:40
Dan Sanchez
All my top website friends say Google don't care. They're like, they want the best information.
00:47:43
Gray Mitchell
They...
00:47:44
Dan Sanchez
If it comes from AI, they're ranking it and it's coming.
00:47:45
Gray Mitchell
Exactly. but They want the best information and they want converting information.
00:47:48
Dan Sanchez
And if it's timely, they got it.
00:47:50
Gray Mitchell
You know what mean? Because that's why people spend money.
00:47:51
Dan Sanchez
Yeah.
00:47:52
Gray Mitchell
They want the best information for quality and they want converting information.
00:47:52
Dan Sanchez
Yeah.
00:47:56
Dan Sanchez
Yeah.
00:47:56
Gray Mitchell
Right? so So it it doesn't matter if you use AI as long as you're using relevant info. So that's why we use a mix of actual data that exists out on the internet that's you know very very specialized.
00:48:06
Gray Mitchell
And we use a mix of actual client data that's real organic content that these companies have built up for years, docs and everything that you could imagine, website data to actually repurpose that into relevant relevant content.
00:48:17
Gray Mitchell
That's something really cool. Another cool system that we've just finished developing part two of is we told you, I think I told you before we developed an ad spy system. Well, it basically, you know, ah Facebook and TikTok ad data isn't publicly accessible.
00:48:30
Gray Mitchell
So we actually ended up partnering with one company to build an API and using some backend scrapers, we were able to aggregate enough of the ad data that you can't normally get and then use AI to score it in relation to other ads based on the industry of our clients.
00:48:46
Gray Mitchell
And then using that data, you would then have a list of exactly, you know, what what are the highest, what are the what are the best ads that you could be going after? What's working, you know, what's seeing the biggest results, what's seeing the most engagement, what's been, you know, blowing up in the shortest amount of days.
00:49:01
Gray Mitchell
then from there, you can, you can, you have the creative to that content. And what we've just built, we're actually wrapping this up now in the, in the process, we're wrapping this up and about to roll this out to some clients. but we've built a ad creation system based on that data.
00:49:15
Gray Mitchell
So we've, that was, that was the kind of the first phase of the system. So now, um we didn't even think about this until the system was done.
00:49:20
Dan Sanchez
Yeah.
00:49:20
Gray Mitchell
And we said, wow, imagine what we could do with this data now. I mean, this data is immensely valuable. And before teams were taking that data and using that as and inspiration for their ads. So now that we have those working, working ads,
00:49:32
Gray Mitchell
we're using that to based on the, our, our client to pair that with the, with the best match for what can be usable for ads from our clients.
00:49:43
Gray Mitchell
And so it actually scripts out the ad content and then uses AI to put push images as kind of rough out drafts. And we're dialing that in, but the the content is really solid.
00:49:54
Gray Mitchell
And so it, it looks just like it doesn't, you know, obviously our goal isn't to copy it, but it uses the same kind of framework that the original ad was, made off of and then kind of puts its own spin on it for the company.
00:50:05
Gray Mitchell
So good example would be like Ridge Wallet. Ridge Wallet is crushing it in the wallet space, right? So if you you could take their data and migrate it to an apparel brand that's making wallets, which you know is one of our clients, and it actually outputs very, very high quality AI images and scripts the whole thing out in their tone of voice.
00:50:25
Gray Mitchell
And so this this thing is churning out daily
00:50:27
Dan Sanchez
So you are creating the images for the campaigns as well.
00:50:30
Gray Mitchell
Exactly. I'm not a big fan of AI image images and I'm not a huge fan of AI images and videos, but think it's good for rough drafts.
00:50:31
Dan Sanchez
Which, what's your...
00:50:40
Gray Mitchell
And a lot of times we'll tell our clients like, yeah, edit this, but it's pumping pumping out content daily and then they can actually just test that.
00:50:44
Dan Sanchez
Yeah.
00:50:46
Gray Mitchell
And if it's working, then obviously they can refine it, but they're literally able to everything.
00:50:48
Dan Sanchez
Double down and send it to a graphic designer to...
00:50:50
Gray Mitchell
they're able to test.
00:50:51
Dan Sanchez
Yeah.
00:50:51
Gray Mitchell
I mean, legitimately go through here's, you know, 10 ads this week, test them. And, and it's just, it's just a psych, a giant wheel that cycles and they quickly lock down, which ads are working.
00:51:00
Dan Sanchez
Yeah. Yeah.
00:51:02
Gray Mitchell
So we're, so it's,
00:51:02
Dan Sanchez
It's all about speed with a lot of that stuff. What image models you find is working the best?
00:51:06
Gray Mitchell
So I'm not in too too much in the weeds on this particular project. That's mostly my team. But what they've been telling me and what I've seen, I've been kind of not too focused on AI images. So I you know might not be the best person to ask. But the content I've been seeing has been incredible coming out.
00:51:20
Gray Mitchell
know they're using a series of models too. I think most AI model image generation models are just OK. So it's great to use the actual original image as inspiration for the new model, is which is how to you know I think we've we found some of this information out basically.
00:51:33
Dan Sanchez
Firefly.
00:51:35
Gray Mitchell
So you can, I know they use the Adobe one. I use, they used open AIs obviously.
00:51:39
Dan Sanchez
powerful
00:51:41
Gray Mitchell
And I know they've used a series of ah ah a mid journey and a series of other just public ones actually produce the ad content. But the cool thing is you can iterate based on the content, right? So you could just take that and then use AI to analyze the image it just created and then refine it. And then over three or four cycles, you get to a really, really good output.
00:51:59
Gray Mitchell
So you continually run the run the it through the system and then it just refines it three or four times until it's exactly the match. So let's say it misspells something. This is a common thing with AI images, right? Misspells something on the on the ad creative.
00:52:11
Gray Mitchell
Or let's say that it comes up with it just comes up with a ah ah really cartoony or cringy looking cover. You could basically say, yeah, take this and make it more realistic. So it analyzes that based on the the data that it it gets back from that.
00:52:23
Gray Mitchell
The weakness is, And then in comparison to the original ad, it's actually able to, you know, refine it until it gets a solid output. So that's just an example.
00:52:33
Dan Sanchez
I mean, that's exciting stuff. You also have a ah ah developer, two developers, two and a half?
00:52:39
Gray Mitchell
Two. Yeah, two.
00:52:40
Dan Sanchez
Two developers.
00:52:40
Gray Mitchell
we're We're scaling pretty quick.
00:52:41
Dan Sanchez
Yeah.
00:52:41
Gray Mitchell
So there're yeah, we're looking for new new talent frequently. That's kind of where where we're we're in ah and a period where we're trying to focus on our series of you know higher, medium-sized and enterprise clients and just getting a handful of those clients because I prefer to stay lean but kind of do a partnership almost.
00:52:45
Dan Sanchez
Yep.
00:52:57
Gray Mitchell
Not quite a partnership, but just partner closer with those companies. to That's kind of my my optimal form of growth. So we can stay relatively lean, but yeah, we're still growing as much. you know, trying to take on as much team as and we can.
00:53:09
Gray Mitchell
so
00:53:10
Dan Sanchez
Yeah. Yeah.

Are custom AI tools the future?

00:53:12
Dan Sanchez
It's interesting because I feel like a lot of this for marketers to do this, this heavier stuff, obviously you need to work with the developing team development team in order to build these custom tools, but the future is custom tools, I think.
00:53:26
Gray Mitchell
yeah agree.
00:53:26
Dan Sanchez
you Of course, you could do it in-house or you can work with an agency like yours in order to help you build these custom tools. but But if they're customized for you, it's like, it I think a lot of people used to do that calculation like a builder builder buy Like, do we build it ourselves? Are we like licensed Salesforce or something like that?
00:53:43
Dan Sanchez
it used to almost always be cheaper to do, have some SaaS solution and use that, right?
00:53:44
Gray Mitchell
Yeah.
00:53:48
Dan Sanchez
But now with AI, it's it's actually better to build a lot of these things in-house.
00:53:50
Gray Mitchell
Well, we've used some SaaS solutions that that are, yeah, I was just going to say, we use a lot of these, we've used a lot of these SaaS solutions in our systems. So integrating them so we don't have to do the whole thing, find who's doing the best at it.
00:54:01
Dan Sanchez
Yeah.
00:54:03
Gray Mitchell
And then we typically just find it doesn't quite get the output that our clients want. And so we were just like, well, let's just start from scratch and build the whole system custom. And so then from there,
00:54:11
Dan Sanchez
Or it might just be maybe you have a SaaS solution and you're building on a component of it that does the custom thing, right?
00:54:16
Gray Mitchell
That's what we've done, right?
00:54:17
Dan Sanchez
Yeah.
00:54:17
Gray Mitchell
So like even for the original SEO system, V1 of it, we used the SaaS to actually do the production based on all the input data we gave it and based on all the settings that we had.
00:54:24
Dan Sanchez
Yeah.
00:54:26
Gray Mitchell
But, you know, we didn't like the way it did internal linking and it randomized the images and it was just expensive for hosting for no reason.
00:54:33
Dan Sanchez
Mm-hmm.
00:54:33
Gray Mitchell
was just way overkill it just didn't do, it didn't exactly do what we wanted it to do. So we said, all right, how do we start from scratch and just and build this and build this whole thing, right? We already have half the piece. So let's just, let's just build our own. That's better and actually customize. And so now our, our current one's actually customized with rag data, you know, for the, for the actual client and it's performing way better than just giving it native website data.
00:54:53
Gray Mitchell
So that, that's an, that's some examples of things that we're finding. out right now. And like like you're saying, I think it seems like every business, i from my opinion, whether they work with an an agency, you know, a custom agency like ours, and there's a million AI automation agencies that are popping up, I would say that in a very short amount of time, people are starting going to start to get burned by these because they're not solid.
00:55:15
Gray Mitchell
They're not really, they're not really you know, AI automation agencies. It's kind of the equivalent with SMMA and it's some, you know, random person who started, you know, running Facebook ads yesterday and they want to come in and do, you know, do the Facebook ads for a...
00:55:27
Dan Sanchez
They took one AI course and started figuring it out.
00:55:29
Gray Mitchell
Mm-hmm. Right, but so I think what we're gonna see is we're gonna see a massive influx of those kind of people.
00:55:30
Dan Sanchez
Right. Yeah.
00:55:35
Gray Mitchell
So I think definitely the best, the hard thing is there's a lot of developers too also haven't you know caught up you to the AI wave, you know or they don't quite they don't quite get the outcome that people are looking for, you could say. So that's the one of the struggles we have, because we're trying to find people number one, have the development skills, but also understand the AI engineering. And frequently those skillsets are separated for some reason.
00:55:56
Gray Mitchell
So, I mean, I'm more on the AI side. I understand it more than less than I understand development because I haven't been, to you know, I haven't been sitting in my room the last 10 years coding.
00:56:03
Dan Sanchez
Yeah. You find yourself writing the prompts for your developers to actually put in place.
00:56:07
Gray Mitchell
Frequently.
00:56:09
Gray Mitchell
Well, the cool thing is you can use AI to greatly improve them. but But yeah, because AI knows what it needs if you go through enough iterations with it.
00:56:11
Dan Sanchez
Yeah.
00:56:17
Gray Mitchell
But the i think I think that every business right now should be looking for either top tier developers with some AI skill sets to hire in-house, some kind of ai automation person to hire in-house.
00:56:29
Gray Mitchell
The problem is many of those people, unless you can hire like a top tier developer, person or somebody who really understands it and somebody who can really build incredible things and has a kind of a repository of really impressive systems they've built, know, they're going to build great stuff for you. Don't don't get me wrong, but they're you know they're not going to quite build the next cutting edge technology for you.
00:56:50
Gray Mitchell
So I think that's where most many business owners might might get misunderstood or i don't understand how expensive it is actually is the higher top tier talent. like you know I would consider our company, to to actually come in and and build these systems for but for different industries. right And so whether you have to work with an agency, there's you know a lot of AI agencies and there's a lot of high you know very high professional development agencies as well, I think there's a spectrum here. And so I think it's ultimately finding the best people that you can work with and whether that's in-house. And I think in-house is probably going to be the bigger long-term strategy.
00:57:22
Gray Mitchell
But whether that's in-house hiring an AI company
00:57:22
Dan Sanchez
Yeah.
00:57:25
Gray Mitchell
guru, you could say, or whether that's looks like hiring an agency. I think it's, I think every business should be implementing AI. What, you know, and that's, that's obviously not just a sell for me, because it doesn't matter if it's me or you somebody else, it's just whoever, whoever's actually developing that cutting edge technology, and really pushing you into the next, into the next level, because it it's, it's way better than you could possibly imagine if you start seeing some of these systems, given that they're refined.
00:57:48
Dan Sanchez
It's amazing.

How to connect with Gray Mitchell?

00:57:50
Gray Mitchell
So
00:57:51
Dan Sanchez
know knowing how much I know like marketing automation ah ah agencies, charge And I'm like in market. And that was a few years ago, marketing automation, uh, essentially marketing ops is like the fancy B2B term for marketing automation.
00:58:04
Dan Sanchez
And those guys charged a lot.
00:58:04
Gray Mitchell
Yeah.
00:58:05
Dan Sanchez
Why? Because there is a lot of demand and not a very, not a lot of people that do automation well. And I think AI is honestly kind of made it more complicated because it's automation is more straightforward than working with AI.
00:58:12
Gray Mitchell
Exactly.
00:58:17
Dan Sanchez
Yeah. AI can accomplish so much more than any of our automated systems ever have done before.
00:58:21
Gray Mitchell
I 100% agree. I think that the the current the the problem is you're going to see like a classification of two kinds.
00:58:29
Gray Mitchell
You're going to see the lower ticket. and and this isn't gonna I don't know if this is going to be a clear market distinction or not where everybody knows this, but I think what's gonna what you're going to see evolve is you're going to see the AI automation agencies.
00:58:39
Gray Mitchell
And then you know obviously we try to brand ourselves as an AI implementation agency, which right now we're still a generalist. And obviously we're moving towards... you know At some point, things are going to niche down enough and we're going find our certain niche with our you know bigger clients and we're just going to go.
00:58:51
Gray Mitchell
And it's looking like that will probably be AI ops. And know not to say we're we're not going do other things, but I think that's kind of the lane we're wanting to go to. I don't actually know where that's going to end up, but that's just my suspicion.
00:59:02
Gray Mitchell
But I think you're going to see two classes. You're going to see the AI automation people, which is just kind of you know your typical SMMA. Oh, we'll run ads and get some... hopefully a positive ROI. And then you're going to see real high level businesses that are formed out of this whole AI thing.
00:59:19
Dan Sanchez
Yep.
00:59:19
Gray Mitchell
So that's the way I see it.
00:59:20
Dan Sanchez
Oh, great. Thank you so much for joining me on the show. Where can people go to learn more, connect with you online, but also learn more about your business?
00:59:28
Gray Mitchell
Yeah, so if you want, the sign is behind me. I don't know if it's backwards or forward, but you can go to igris.com if you want to learn about our agency. If you to just connect with me, you can connect on me with LinkedIn.
00:59:40
Gray Mitchell
LinkedIn, you can reach out to me. Gray at igris too is my email. I recently got off Instagram, but yeah you can message me either there, sometimes on Twitter. But anyways, I'm sure if if we end up talking, um I'd love to make some friends from this from the show and get to know people.
00:59:56
Gray Mitchell
So yeah.
00:59:58
Dan Sanchez
So go connect with Gray on LinkedIn. I will certainly be connecting posting about it on LinkedIn and I'll be dropping links to both his LinkedIn account and his website in the show notes. So go check him out there.
01:00:09
Dan Sanchez
Gray, thanks again for joining me.
01:00:10
Gray Mitchell
Awesome. Thank you so much, Dan. I really appreciate your time.