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Modern Media Has a Lore Problem | Windbreaker Podcast
7.4k Plays4 months ago
On this week’s episode of Windbreaker, Yahtzee, Frost, and Marty chat about the growing popularity of lore-based media, and the increasing barrier to entry a lot of stories have.
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Transcript
Introduction and Support Us
00:00:00
Speaker
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00:00:27
Speaker
Ooh,
What is Lore in Video Games?
00:00:28
Speaker
everyone. Welcome to the Wed Breakers podcast. I'm Yahtzee Crowshaw. Frost is above me like he usually is. I'm the number one upstairs neighbor. I'm out. He is above and to the right of me like he usually is. I have to I have to point out to um very hard when I tried to do that. It's so hard. My brain is broken when I'm looking at these overlays. But anyway, this week we're talking about lore in the aftermath of the Elden Ring DLC. Of course,
Lore vs Story
00:00:57
Speaker
lore being a big part of the From Software interactive narrative presentation, but also inspired somewhat by the response to my coverage of the Riven remake in Yahtzee Tries recently, where we got a whole lot of very angry commenters saying, well, it makes sense if you read the books, but which of course drives the question,
00:01:17
Speaker
How has video games got a lore problem? Has culture generally got a lore problem? But is there not enough of a story being told in the, yeah you know, what would you call it? The front facing part of the court, the cortex? I guess first off, do we want to talk do we want to try to define like lore versus story? Just to set a nice little baseline. I like it. Well, I suppose lore would just be everything that explains the world that isn't directly told in the moment-to-moment experience of playing the game or watching the movie, like stuff you pick up on from reading associated tie-in books or reading the item descriptions in Dark Souls. Okay, I was going to say, so
Importance of Lore in Game Narrative
00:01:58
Speaker
like we're considering that lore as well, like documents, audio logs, sort of things that are not necessary to experience
00:02:06
Speaker
while actually playing and or watching a thing. Right. Because of course, random documents and audio logs is a big presence in a lot of games. And I suppose I have played a lot of games where the story doesn't make a whole lot of sense if you don't pay attention to all of that. And that's where I'm in. It's very much a feeling kind of thing. Like you can go through my small town and they'll go, here's the Confederate statue during this year, during that that kind of thing. Very well documented. That's history. That's narrative. But also the town has a little bit of gossip of like, yeah, that's where the gym teacher and the English teacher had an affair. that lo That's I know it when I hear it. Yeah, it adds yeah and that's flavor. Yeah, lauray to to bring up food, which I feel like we do a lot, lore feels like the flavor of something. So that's the the spice, yeah reasoning whereas the whereas the story is the protein. and like That is the main course. And like ah lore can enhance a protein, but I don't feel like lore can make up.
00:03:06
Speaker
for a lack of protein. law Law certainly can enhance the protein. I'm thinking about a game I very recently played, Still Wakes the Deep, so which is the Chinese room's new walking simulator thing. On the surface, it's like a horror sci-fi story where you're trying to escape from an oil rig where everyone's been mute-the-thinged, everyone's been John Carpenter's-the-thinged. um ah But early on, there's a prologue where you just hang around the the oil rig, meeting everyone, seeing how they do their daily life. And you go into like the the staff lounge, there's just a poster on the wall illustrating who's the standings in the darts tournament. And it's that's just one of many little touches that really makes that game feel like it has a believable world, you know? And whatever body you find has impact because you know it's it's someone the main character knows and has interacted with.
00:03:58
Speaker
Yeah, I like it. I like it. um Another thing is that it doesn't really impose on itself, right? If I were to just wander and look through and my own allows my own curiosity to sort of pick and choose whatever it wants and to be as involved as I want to be outside of just here's a history course, you know, and I never really understood that too much. And so When it gets to that lore problem, I'll probably flesh it out more. I do feel like
When Lore Overwhelms Narrative
00:04:22
Speaker
lore that imposes, it's hard to tell the difference between like, is this lore or is this narrative now? Because this is starting to feel like ah ah an actual history lesson more so than anything else. Yeah. Well, a lore, an example of lore that imposes would probably be something like the Star Wars opening crawl.
00:04:38
Speaker
Oh, interesting. Yeah. Interesting. Force lore. Yeah. ah But then, of course, lore is something that a lot of creators start to use as a crutch. like I think of a game like Final Fantasy 13, which when I played it back in the day, I noticed pretty short ways into the game that it's got a fucking glossary. And you literally have no chance of understanding what the fuck's going on in that game, unless you go to the glossary every time they mention a new word you don't understand. Yeah, a new proper noun gets the loose skill or whatever. the Yeah. um And I'm thinking of Ross Scott did a video on The Division a while back, and he mentioned in that video that he was like playing that game with a sort of self-imposed challenge, where he has to figure out what the story of the game is just from what's presented and not based on
00:05:28
Speaker
Uh, listing documents or reading any supplementary material before he starts. Sure, sure. And it turns out it's really bloody hard to figure out what the story of the division is without that sort of context. ah can Yeah. I don't know. Like multiplayer again, like doesn't like, uh, like rainbow six has lore, but it's like, I think so. But you have to, like, ah you really have to go off the beaten path to find it. And it's like not the primary, uh, the primary goal of, of the thing. the step the the the I don't know. I always feel weird about, uh, oh, a bulk, like really good story stuff being delivered in these things. You need to stop and read because I feel like that.
Lore's Impact on Gameplay Pacing
00:06:10
Speaker
can do such a bad job of mucking up the pacing of a game. yeah Like when you leave that to the player, then they kind of take the agency in terms of, oh, okay, if if you were ramping up dramatic action right now, I could hit pause and spend 10 minutes reading the documents I got over the last hour. Oh, I hate when games force you to stop the list of documents. I've done entire videos on the subject. Just play the audio log over gameplay while I take care of everything else I'm supposed to be doing. ah I think that's what separates it there because the reflex to that is like, yeah, but you might miss it. Lore, it's okay if you miss it. It's okay if you might miss it. Whereas narrative is like, no, I have to. I really do have to tell you this. It's just so very important.
00:06:53
Speaker
Just to give like a hardline hot take here, I think lore is a lovely thing, but I think a story has to be a self-contained story without it. I think of it in the same way I think of leaving stuff for the sequel. I mean, classic example, Star Wars A New Hope. As has been well-documented, Star Wars A New Hope works perfectly well as a standalone story. If you take the Grand Moff Tarkin as the main antagonist, it's a complete hero's journey from start to finish. And everything else that the sequels pay off is stuff that's just sort of hanging off that strong core narrative to be sorted out later. And one could argue part of the problem of later Star Wars is that sequel hook becomes more um the pie filling than the lovely little decorations on the crust.
00:07:48
Speaker
Yeah, that kind of ah that kind of speculation cottage industry becomes a way for people to fill the room in between entries of the thing. like i feel I feel like it's Star Wars. i mean you know for for the decades without Star Wars movies. And so that kind of like lore and speculation ended up getting filled in by games and by books and and and things like that. just Yeah. Star Wars lore, expanded universe lore. It was more lore than meat at that point.
00:08:22
Speaker
And I guess that and that almost ties into what we talked about a few weeks ago, where at a certain point, something spirals so heavily out of control that you're like, what even is this thing? Being a fan of this thing, like what does it actually mean? um And that's the same of like being a fan of like a Souls games story. like i don't like Maybe I'm dumb, but I you don't get enjoyment out of these Souls stories in the moment while playing them. I'll get like feelings of of awe and excitement and fear and and being impressed by what they've created. And then afterwards, I need to have someone like Vati. I'll be like, okay, explain who's, who's Mikala explain to this person. is um hitting Are you hitting this bit though, where it's like, I'm not sure what's going on. And then in the newer souls games, you finally learn and you're like, yeah, I kind of didn't need to care now. Did I?
Dark Souls and Lore-Driven Storytelling
00:09:06
Speaker
Whereas in the first one, I was like, I didn't know what's going on. But when I did, I'm like, no way. That's so sad. I can't believe it. Now I'm like, Dark Souls is a weird case because it's almost all lore. It almost doesn't have as i know a surface level narrative. or like The surface level narrative is just what you, the player, are doing. You're trying to get to the Bell of Awakening, oh dear, there's a big monster in the way that wants to stop you. That's all you that's all you know and that's all you really need to know to appreciate ah the gameplay.
00:09:34
Speaker
All that lore is for stuff is for the people who want to, you know, fill in a few blanks after they're already sucked in by the gameplay, the atmosphere, the ah interesting environments and the weird background storytelling details. So I'd say it's the same principle as A New Hope. You've got your surface thing, fight the monsters and ah explore the world and don't die. And all the um all the rest of it is stuff that, you know, makes the lovely pie crust around it. Yeah, you almost can't just have the lore now, can you? As you're saying. but showinglling ready Very, FNAF, right? To people who weren't into the lore, the story for us was like, oh, he's a night manager and he's, there's all these haunted animatronics and whatnot. But to everyone else, it's like, no, there's death and and fear and loathing.
00:10:23
Speaker
I would have liked Dark Souls story less if it bridged the gap and tried to have both a moment to moment fully dialogue narrative as well as the lore stuff. yeah that It's all lore, keeps it a nice sort of... pure experience, because if it if if they did have like a in your face narrative in Dark Souls, that would be an implication that that is the only stuff that's important. yeah yes That's all that matters. That's the stuff you need to pay attention to. and The fact that the all of the story is in law means it's all equally prominent, if you catch the drift.
00:10:55
Speaker
Yeah, and it's weird in it's weird to consume that in game in from soft games because they don't have that kind of like glossary that you're talking about in in a Final Fantasy game or even like Final Fantasy 16 last year had that um active time lore or whatever where you could pull up to the head of like, oh, here's a timeline of everything that's happening. And here's what this proper noun, and these characters are talking about mean. And here's how these characters are related. um Whereas if you glean everything from reading the items, you can read everything over the course of a 50 hour playthrough. but That doesn't mean you're going to make a connection of a proper noun from an item you found in the first hour to a proper noun and you found two weeks later in the 50th hour. So that's kind of why
00:11:40
Speaker
with these stories, if we want to call them, that I need someone to kind of consume them and then, you know, ah the convey the information to me like ah like a teacher would, like a professor would. Like, that's how I learn about my history. Yeah. but Do you need the an NPC in there? that At the 50th hour, you find the necklace and the NPC's like, oh,
Challenges with Lore-Heavy Games
00:12:00
Speaker
remember that bastard you first met? That was him. i' like oh shit oh i actually don't remember that but thank you for telling me flashback sequence yeah yeah i wouldn't like gatsie said i wouldn't want that I feel like that would remove an elegance of the game. but um
00:12:16
Speaker
yeah But yeah, it's a weird it's a weird way to consume things. It's almost a skill diff, if if I may. and add Add more spice to this hot take, where lore is, it is almost just by nature reading between the lines. It is just context clues figuring out what to do. And the people who do ah click together, well, they, ah consequently, they're more smug about it, but they are enriched, you know? it is They were paying more attention, good for them. How would you feel if Dark Soul had a quiz at the end that was like, let's see how much you were paying attention? This is that, uh, that belief from, uh, Darryl Brien in it. Yeah. I would fail so miserably. I think at the end of a play through, someone asked me like what this DLC is about. I'm like, I don't know. Everyone seems bad. And the health bar comes out. I kill it.
00:13:03
Speaker
Yeah, you i did I did this in one of my adventure games once in my adventure game five days a stranger. It's a story where you have to where there's a sort of underlying mystery. There's a ghost, you have to figure out who the ghost is and why they're mad. And there's like clues dropped throughout the story, but then at the end of the story, there's like a dialogue tree where another character quizzes you on what's actually going on. And if you get it right, ah the character goes, yes, that was my conclusion as well. But if you get it wrong, the character goes, no, you haven't quite understood this, so I need to explain it better. That's was that's sort of my my slightly yeah finicky, ah paranoid,
00:13:41
Speaker
ah implementation of making sure everyone's on board with what's going on. Yeah. Yeah, I guess it's a good way to almost like have like a quick checkup and be like, are we all good? Like, is it is everyone good to keep going on? Like, we're all on the same page here. I imagine that. I mean, you have to be careful with that, like, low load bearing lore, right? I mean, for this one, I got a little lost during the Elden Ring DLC where I went and wait. I think I'm ahead. um I got here early, you know, and that's just kind of a consequence of the open world design. I was like, well, who's where's the fuck I have to kill right now?
00:14:14
Speaker
I had a, literally the, there is a parent, there's an NPC, I think her name's Laina or something that you talk to right before you enter the egg to enter the DLC. yeah And either she didn't appear in my game or I completely glossed over her because I went several hours without meeting her and characters kept referring to her. And then when I went to play the DLC with Jack, literally the first thing Jack does is talk to her before entering the egg. And I'm like, who is this woman? She was not by my egg. It's like, okay, let's put some things together. It's that urban camouflage. that's how you yeah and ah ah So we're, you know, the soul stuff can, aside from, you know, other people being able to kind of digest it for us, the lore is at least within things in the game. Yeah. So you brought up Riven, like a lot of that lore is you literally need to read novels that are sold at bookstores and probably not bookstores anymore because they don't exist. Fascinating.
00:15:08
Speaker
It's almost like Halo did the same thing where it's like, oh, in order to understand the Halo story, you need to read these kind of these books that are in between, or even Final Fantasy 7 recently was like, in order to understand this remake story completely, you need to play a bunch of old games and read a couple books and here's a movie as well. Yeah, I was completely lost ah playing Halo, but you know, Devil's Advocate, surely like, All that really matters to most the people playing Halo is that you shoot the g Gribbly Monsters. And again, the law is for people who actually, you know, give that much of a shit. ah That's at least to that's how it feels like Halo treats it. Do you ever read the book version of 2001 of Space Odyssey? No. arthur secret I have.
00:15:50
Speaker
Yes, I read it after I'd seen the film and it actually fully explains what's going on in the film in plain non-flowery English so that everything's laid bare and it's all perfectly clear. But you know what? That didn't make me appreciate the film less. Yeah. so Because the film is more an cinematographic experience. no like It's like I was saying before we started, I've been watching clips of Better Call Saul on YouTube just because I like the experience of watching the performances and I don't really care about context. There's in films and games, there's the moment to moment experience, which I've always held up as tantamount in especially in game design. And so in many ways, lore
00:16:39
Speaker
Oh, I kind of forgot where what that thought was going. um a joke plug joe biden i mean So if if the moment to moment experience is what is most important to you, then I mean, is the lore like, set dressing? Like, does it even... look like Well, it's like I said about Still Wakes the Deep, lore enhances the momentto moment of my own experience. Because I wouldn't give shit one about a random corpse unless i' it had been established in earlier lore giving opportunities, who that corpse was and who they were to the main character. Yeah.
00:17:14
Speaker
So that's, that's, that's what law can do for me. It can give context, give more context to what you're doing on the moment of experience, but you got to have the strong moment of experience to pay it off. Yeah. And if, and if that ends up being like the crutch where, uh, you know, you're like, I did this thing didn't click with me. I didn't like it. And someone's response is, Oh, well, that's because you didn't play these five other games and read these books. You're like, well, this thing is not standing up on its own weight then, right? Like this thing is not, this thing's being propped up by this Jenga tower of, of previous games and, and.
00:17:53
Speaker
movies and books and everything. You've aptly described
Franchises Relying on Lore vs Original Narratives
00:17:57
Speaker
the Call of Duty zombies, how it went from lore to then way more fleshed out campaigns to where it started off great in that sense of what Yachts was saying, how in its own thing, even if you weren't attached to the lore, it's just four super soldiers fighting off zombies in a theater, right? But you go further in, it's like, oh, this is, he's the one that put them here and their experiments and blah, blah, blah. until eventually it started to take on a life of its own. So I was almost like leaning towards from a development standpoint, not so much a crutch, but is it like, here's the rough draft of what I want to make at some point, should they have discarded it? Should they have committed straight to it? Because I feel like some do try to kind of get away from it.
00:18:37
Speaker
I think and part of the reason why I'd like to see more original IPs and less sequels is because when something just goes on forever, it gets lost in the lore, you know? Yeah, yeah, lore of its own. Something like Star Wars, but just something like Assassin's Creed. but yeah ah More and more, the stories fall back on the existing lore as a crutch without having a strong central narrative in each individual installment. because they get the impression that that's what the established fans want ah to pay off the law. Can you pay off the law? Because then it's not lore anymore. Then it is part of the narrative. It's almost like lore has to be just open-ended and hanging, right? But we are obsessed with knowing more context and more context. So either you end up with a massive string of lore or just, well, now it's not lore. It's just, it's just given.
00:19:29
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, you can be handled in different ways, right? Like Kingdom Hearts is something to where it is incomprehensible ah at this deep in, unless you've consumed everything there is to consume. And so I do feel like it is um you know, kind of very, it knows it's our, it's audience and it's not just the, oh, it's final fantasy characters meets Disney characters. Like the original pitch, it is very targeted towards its core audience. Whereas I would say the, the remedy games do a pretty good job of they've, they've created this tide tethered universe, but I think you can play control or Alan wake separately and enjoy them for what they are. And then if you've played the other ones, it's a little bit of like a bonus that you see the threads that link them together.
00:20:12
Speaker
but That's how I like to do things because I myself am a creator of fiction and in my off hours. And I've always said that I like including little references to other things I've done to sort of imply that it's all tied into a single universe. But
Creating Standalone Stories with Expansive Lore
00:20:26
Speaker
I've always tried to make sure that everything's a self-contained story because it might be the current audience's first experience with what you're doing. Yeah. It just feels like good advice for a story creator. Just make sure that you can onboard a new audience with every ins installment. And, you know, it's a little infuriating when the things has continue to make money, even when they're completely impenetrable. Like I've so i've said before, I haven't watched a Marvel movie since, like, Guardians of the Galaxy 1, and now I don't want to, because there's so there's been so many. There's so much deep lore. I haven't been i've seen anything since before Spider-Man showed up.
00:21:04
Speaker
And it's not even just movies anymore. where It's like, Oh, there's also this eight hours of this Disney plus show you have to watch. And yeah, it's, it's, it's like a little full-time job. And when the things at the top of the world, that's a benefit. Like that was a feature, not a bug when they, when they started tying everything together because they're like, Oh, you're, you're in our web, you know, no pun intended. Like you're going to watch everything. But as quality and interest started to wane, they're now being like, Oh shit, we kind of want to back away and let people know like, Oh, well, no, you could just watch this. You could do, you could watch Captain America at four without watching anything else. It's fine. You can watch Deadpool without watching anything else. It's fine. I'll be like, yeah, I'll be the cynical one. Okay, go ahead. I was going to be cynical, but you, there's enough cynicism to go around. i call dibs on the cynical stick Okay. You'd be the cynicism warmup man. Okay. And then, uh, is, uh, is this like, is that formal? Is that literary formal you think?
00:22:02
Speaker
I was just like, Oh, you you didn't get that. You didn't really get the whole context. Why don't you like, you know, have a look at the book, have a look at the other games, which kind of has the other effect of, like you said, Kingdom Hearts. I'm scared because I don't know. i can't I'm pretty sure I can't just grab the next one and like, yeah, I'm all caught up. So it's you're saying it's not so much Laura's cross promotion. Yes. Yeah. Whereas before, back in my day, pocket um it would just be as simple as like, yeah, I know him from this other IP. We go to the same gas station. That's it. yeah Whereas now they have to live in each other's stuff and the world that they're in is part of the promotional thing too. I'm like, Oh no. I feel like the points where you do your big Avengers crossover and where all the laws of the individual works come together and all hang out together.
00:22:48
Speaker
that surely that's like the natural end point for the franchise. Cause anything you do after that is just going to feel like it's like turning the same handle. It also feels like we've talked about how like, if you keep trying to like build to something bigger and bigger, once you hit like multiverses, it's like, yeah, gay multiverses, like a multiverse, then it's like, well, can't really go anywhere from here. Cause you've like, no you've touched the infinite and that's the top of this. coldness starbu so
00:23:19
Speaker
ah Did you hear Vin Diesel, where he's like, maybe we'd do a spin off of the Toretto's. I'm like, my brother in Christ, you're the main character. You are the Toretto's. You're doing it right now. What are you spinning off to? They tried to do that with Hobbs and Sean. It almost feels like at a certain point, it's like a threat. Like these things become so big that it's not even FOMO. It's like, well, you better fucking watch it. You're going to get left behind. And you're like, well, yeah, if it's the biggest thing in pop culture, then you feel bad. But
Lore's Cultural Impact on Media
00:23:49
Speaker
once it starts waning, like everything ends up doing like you're fine being left behind. Is is that so much a threat now that we're past like the world of water cooler conversations and there's simply so much tropical media that you can't you can't really have those
00:24:07
Speaker
What a cool conversations about individual works anymore. Everyone's in their own little the like bubble of. Yeah. It seems like the biggest thing in the world to your bubble. You can look at the ratings and be like, Oh, succession got a fraction of the rating. The succession finale gets a fraction of the ratings of like whatever shitty CBS procedural is on on a Tuesday night. Um, this is great. so you watch So it just seems like a, it just, it's just like in your bubble. It's the most important thing in the world, but there's a million bubbles out there. So the problem with the FOMO is, uh, it's the threat of the stick that's going to get you. If you get left behind, uh, I think the threat's actually been acted upon because the thing that breaks FOMO is you did miss out and then you're like, Oh, I'm alive. It's not that bad. So now it emboldens them to like, you know what? I missed out once and I didn't hurt from it. So I'm going to miss out some more. And you know what I kind of like.
00:25:00
Speaker
missing out on things. What else can I miss out on, you know? Yeah, cause they vaccinate you vaccinate yourself. These days, there's more cache and make an obscure references, I think. I think so too. I mean, ah before this, before we started recording, you two were all talking about the bear together. And you're like, Hey, did you watch that? Oh my God, that was great. Yeah, blah, blah, blah. Did you see that bit where he, blah, blah, blah. I was feeling left out. We're a little lukewarm on this season. But yes, but yes, but I was feeling left out. But my, but my thought while you were doing that was not, boy, I better go off and watch the bear now. My thought was, boy, I wish these two fucks would shut up.
00:25:37
Speaker
Yeah. Is this an out? Yes, chef. What about, uh, what about games where like parsing the lore is the game and I realized some of my favorite games of the last few years. Yeah. I've had to say Oprah din, basically every detective game, and day yeah outer wilds and immortality. Three of my favorite games like the last five or six years are all about like parsing through the lore. Well, there you go. Much like Dark Souls, it's an all law experience. if It speaks all law. That's what you want. I mean, I'm thinking about, I'm thinking about Still Wakes the Deep again. ah I mean, I always like give video games like Hellblade two and that game shit before trying to bridge the gap between, uh, walking sim and actual game game by having these token combat elements or these token stealth elements.
Balancing Lore and Narrative
00:26:29
Speaker
It feels like, you know, stay in your lane. You want to make a visual novel. Fine. i've I've liked visual novels. I like Beginner's Guide. I like Stan Lee's Parable. I like things that ah owned the fact that they're visual novels, but it's
00:26:43
Speaker
You know, it's the Shilly Shallying, where things all get undignified, and you're just giving a worse experience for everyone. And that's how this feels like with lore. Either oops all lore, or tell us a straight story that doesn't strictly require it. Because when you're trying to bridge trying to bridge the gap, that everything starts to go to shit. There is a combo somewhere. As one of your critiques, I love the phrasing. I forgot what it was, but I know that I loved it was for Hellblade 2. It was um like, You said the first game had clear and ambigu and ambiguity. I think that's what it was. Ambiguity. Yeah. That oxymoron. But it did hit a nice and nice range, a nice temperature that i that I did appreciate. And I feel at some point, lore does that, where I was like, you feel it was more ambiguous before, but also clear that it was ambiguous. Now I'm like, I'm i'm not sure what's going on here, really. Yeah. I was like, wait, all these other characters can see what we're seeing and and know that we are actually fighting giants.
00:27:41
Speaker
Yeah, it's very much like ah the magic tricks. For some, the fun isn't knowing and for others, you know, I like to just kind of not having a concrete answer is ah as much fun as having a solid one. They opened the mystery box. ah You can't go back from opening the mystery box. The toothpaste won't go back into the mystery tube. Sure you can, you can just buy the mystery tube. I don't want to put the mystery tube on my teeth. Seems like a bad place to put it. Absolutely not, no. From a... Yeah, it makes your teeth white, but it's kind of weirdly so. if you Your fillings hurt anytime you walk by really hard. It's just like fluorescent in that way. You know, I've been, when I was an Invisible Man, where he puts makeup on his teeth so he can pass as normal, but it looks really weird when he smiles, because it's just like pure white. Yeah. I don't remember that. No. I like that. That's great. I think I own it too. I don't know. Is there...
00:28:35
Speaker
Is this just running its course, though, you think? I think it'll course correct. Where we go from, ooh, I love lore. I love a little bit of mystery, but everything's lore and ambiguous. I'd like some concrete answers. So I think this is like the growing out phase. We're going to start getting into clearer stories and then we're just going to go back to lore again. But except
Media's Cycle of Lore and Narrative Focus
00:28:53
Speaker
because the problem with a problem with proper stories is we're getting to that end of I just stack on lore on the ends of it tonight. There's no clear answer, but it's been dragging on for way, way, way too long. ah Do you really need to know where Han Solo got his last name from? Yeah, that shit was very dumb. his mom I assume. No, it's because he passed through a security checkpoint and he was alone. And so they said Han, Solo. I'm reminded of that bit in, I think it was Tomb Raider 4.
00:29:28
Speaker
where at the start they have a little prologue where Lara's like still young and still being trained by her mentor, and there's a bit where they establish the backstory of her backpack. Of her iconic, weirdly small backpack she's been wearing since the first game. I wonder if found it in an archaeological dig somewhere.
00:29:47
Speaker
I think every one of these lore based, or any dip into lore can have that one thing you point to and you're like, you went too far there. Even lot Lost, my favorite TV show of all time. ah when When it kind of got lost in the sauce, one of the flashbacks was about how the main character got his tattoos. And everyone everyone' said, we don't give a shit about this. Like, why do we care how we got his tattoos? You know where it gets lost in the source where you have a moment like in the second Star Trek film, the Star Trek remake film, ah where they introduce like Benedict Cumberbatch's character and say, Oh, actually, he's Khan. And and that the film goes, whoa. But the characters shouldn't know who that is. Yeah, yeah that shouldn't mean anything to Captain Kirk is like, okay, we've both got four letter names to start with. Okay, what's your point? Yeah, i am my favorite bit, I would think it was Spock.
00:30:35
Speaker
where he says, one of my ancestors said that the simplest solution is always the right. It's alluding to him, him his ancestor being Sherlock. I was like, ooh. What do you call that? Is that Lore? I don't, I'm not really sure what that is. To me that like feels like Lore, but it's it's its own brand of something else. Yeah. or Yeah, Spock is ah related to Sherlock Holmes in that in that sense, which is, a I mean it's, You almost have to really be in on it, but who's that for? People who like Sherlock Holmes and Star Trek? I guess there's like, people get a... They say Easter eggs. Is that it? Star Trek Next Generation reference, Sherlock Holmes, all the time. Fucking Professor Moriarty was a recurring character. I didn't go into Easter eggs. Moriarty from... Sherlock Holmes was a character in Star Trek. What a lot of people don't realize about Star Trek Next Generation is that at heart, it's a procedural.
00:31:30
Speaker
You're watching these guys at work. They're going through the process. They're going through like the the company process every time they get them they can get into something. And that's what like last a day, Star Trek doesn't understand. They try to turn it into fucking action movies again. I realize I just don't know anything about Star Trek. Every time I learn something, I'm like, oh, this is what I thought Star Trek was. I thought you watched it all. Star Trek? No, I haven't watched any of it. I don't know, I didn't go on Star Trek. You might be thinking of Jack and Darren, their big old tricky voice. You get into the X-Files with that one. There's the X-Files. I know everything about the X-Files, except everything I didn't understand because I was playing a Switch game at the time. Aside from that, I know everything about X-Files. Is that a Final Unity, Eric? Yeah. What's a Final Unity? The Star Trek Next Generation text adventure, the Final Unity. That's somewhat from the 90s.
00:32:22
Speaker
Yeah, it's an old one. I remember playing it on CD-ROM. So, you know, I want to say old that here's your lore. That is what inspired Roguelikes is. a Michael Toy, I believe, was playing this, but it's all he had. And he's like, I want a different adventure every time. So he came up with the concept of a roguelike. Listen, in cave. Nice. Mm-hmm. What time do you left? How'd you go? Is there a, um, well, I don't know. We're not going to bully a game, so to speak. But is there a game you feel has lost its way to the lore? You ain't gone a little too far. Assassin's Creed? Absolutely.
00:33:00
Speaker
I just kinda turn into a historical procedural now. Yeah, I feel like Assassin's Creed ebbs and flows with its own history of, like, we think it's important, and then it's like, well well if we don't actually care about this. Yeah, but every plot, every individual plot kind of feels like the same now. It's just, hey, you're an Assassin, you're fighting the big oppressive Templars who are baddies. At the end, you go into an alien spaceship and have a revelation, and then you come out and do the side quests. That's every Assassin's Creed game. Mm hmm. But yeah, story now, don't they?
00:33:35
Speaker
Well, I have not played the new or new ones. I stopped. Yeah. I mean, how much like how much do they like? i Like, I don't know, like Valhalla and Odyssey recently. Like, how much did they go? they they They were still doing the the future narrative in the last couple of ones. I still had like ah ah still referencing Desmond Miles here and there. i wonder I wonder if they're if this, um that series, what it would be like if from the beginning they just would have been like, there is no future narrative. We're just going to make a series and it's just going to have a bunch of different, it's going to be Knights vs. Templar in a bunch of different time periods. It's just supposed to be three. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, again, sort of a natural end point after three when like the main fucking main character had fucking died. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the fact that they kept going after that is what led to the fucking law mill.
00:34:27
Speaker
Yeah, that's not going to stop them from continuing a series that makes them hundreds of millions of dollars. so You can feel that, can't you? To where it's like, yeah, this is where it naturally was going to keep going, but now we're we're lore churning. You know, that's where we're going to go. Which is, I think a different thing compared to say, like, indies or or smaller than AAA. That by daylight kind of had this issue where they started off with a lot of lore. And at one point they're like, you know, I think we're here to stay and we have a higher budget. Let's actually put a story on it. It's just, ah it conflicts a little bit with the original lore, but I feel it was well intended. If there are any like ah aspiring story writers in the chat,
00:35:05
Speaker
It's very tempting to get sort of bogged down establishing the law for whatever you're trying to create. It's like spending hours like working out timelines and character backgrounds and all of that.
Advice for Creators on Using Lore
00:35:15
Speaker
And I'm telling you right now, no one's gonna give a shit if your story on the surface isn't fun. So what don't so so worry about that. Just have a vague idea in your head. put the characters in the situation, write about what happens, and then at the end, if people get interested, maybe sort of fill in some blanks after the fact. I mean, this is you're making the mistake the fucking dark universe made, starting with the lore. And then assuming if the first film did well enough, then they could make the other 17 they had planned.
00:35:50
Speaker
Now, you start with a Star Wars A New Hope, you start with Iron Man, you start with the Ghostbusters Back to the Future, you make one solid self-contained story, and then, if that works out, lore away. I agree. Okay, is that a firm enough point to end on so we can go to Super Chats? I think that was beautiful. I have a tear in my eye. It's been my allergies, but it's not a tear. oh Man, back to the future is so good. We should appreciate back to the future more. What do you feel about the future too? That was the one I've watched the most. We had that on VHS growing up. We didn't have like the first one or the third one. So I've watched back to the future like a million times. just live tomorrow Yeah, imagine.
00:36:42
Speaker
After I'd watched all three of them enough times, I realised that the plot of Back to the Future 3 is basically just the plot of Back to the Future 1 again, but in Wild West times. Like, beat for beat. But Back to the Future 2, it's all over the place. It goes to the future, it goes to the past, it goes to an alternative past, it goes to an alternative present. Right. It's a, it's a rollicking roller coaster. And then it ends with the, uh, the classic I've been holding onto this package for years for you. I'm like, yeah, first time I saw that teenage mutant Ninja Turtles, I was like, who what what do you mean?
00:37:19
Speaker
ah
Successful Use of Lore in Star Wars and Zelda
00:37:20
Speaker
And props to Robert Zemeckis for sitting on any attempts to remake it. Yeah, he's too busy making a bunch of bad movies at the last point. Just immediately putting his fist down on the attempt to remake it. No, it's perfect. Yeah, yeah. I'll take it. Okay. Alex Armstrong gives $2.00. He says, you want to talk about lore problems, Zelda timeline? Well, who? Zelda and Dark Souls were entropy and all this is kind of part of it, alternate dimensions, universes. Yeah. It's just, you as I say, Zelda games are fine as individual experiences, so who cares? And the timeline to me, this of the Zelda timeline is so
00:38:00
Speaker
Unimportant and so easy to just ignore. Like Yasi said, if you kind of just play them as individual experiences or be like, Oh, these two were back to back. So I'll see, Oh, this is young link after Ocarina time going on a little adventure and he gets all Majora's masked. Um, and so yeah, that overall story to me is like, that's cool for the 5% of people who like going crazy about it. Uh, I'm perfectly fine. Not um having said that cool. Things do tend to happen when there is a continuity from one's elder game to another. That's how we got Majora's mask. Yeah. like Okay. We got through the usual shit. Uh, you know, save princess from Ganon. Now we can start having some fun with this particular timeline. Yeah. And there've been great moment like, uh, going under the sea and Wind Waker and seeing the acronym time castle. And I think there's powerful.
00:38:47
Speaker
less timeline stuff and there's more, you can they could do powerful things with motifs by delivering like old, like parts of iconic scores to you. When you hear music in certain places, you're like, oh, holy shit, like this is evoking Ocarina and time. The boss, the last boss of Dark Souls 3, when you fight the Lord of Cinder, like when he goes full Gwyn and you start hearing Gwyn's song and you're like, oh shit, like the the music is the lore cue to you in a really cool way. Like the fist fight with, uh, uh, yeah. So you can ask a lot at the end of metal gear solid four. It's so good. But the soundtrack for metal gear solid three kicks in and the name high change yeah with each game names the health pass change. Perfect game. and could you You're great. You can do as much lower as you want.
00:39:32
Speaker
I like that. My head cannon is Legend of Zelda is literally you're just being told a legend and it's being passed down and it's ah showing itself in in a way it's reflecting our modern times, how we have progressed with technology. ah You go. It's alright. Uh, where was on Hank about? I've lost the place. but so we are what do you mean Alex Armstrong. Oh, Denmark. Yeah. Denmark gives $10 and says, despite older games, smoking the law bong. I think FNAF was the one with both interesting background stuff and an existence coincided with internet culture. That's patient zero right there. That second part, I think is key, the the internet culture.
00:40:16
Speaker
I think we're going to have to get someone much younger on to explain the appeal. I mean, that was my generation. Okay. We got a little baby. All right. Little Bambino explain the appeal of Five Nights at Freddy's law. I think it just hits on your basic rules. We're at the first, the first setting. It's like, it's a funny little game, you know, where all the internet personalities are scaring each other. This is around that same time that we were taking interest in like, um, slender remember the slender game right this little spook him up stand off to your friends and whatnot but it also was like that that evolution of like you remember when Marilyn Manson did that thing with the rib you know for some reason we had this these conscious rumors going through and this is the first time where they're like hey
00:41:00
Speaker
there's this weird little thing in FNAF and you go, wait, wait, there actually is this weird little thing in FNAF. And so it's, it's as much rumor as it is gossip as it becomes tangible as anything else. And then MatPat comes through with his game theory. And I genuinely think the lore was way more exciting than the actual games themselves. And that's what's sure kind of kept it going and whatnot. I would say, yeah, that is kind of patient zero because it not just the game itself, the writing underneath it, which you can argue if it was just bones or a crutch or whatever. but also with the internet, because we're seeing now that more are trying to replicate that FNAF thing, and it comes off as extremely disingenuous. I'm like, oh no, MatPat, oh, it'd be a shame if you really picked apart my game, so vulnerable and right. you Are you throwing shots at the hello neighbor? Yes, yes. my son Where he's like, oh, there's so much juicy lore if someone would find it.
00:41:49
Speaker
um And this also goes to to the other thing with Souls games. I think they they gave it another resurgence. I'd say the second wave of it was Dark Souls and Vaati, where it was game, creator, YouTuber, boom, cultural impact. So now you end up with so many other Souls likes who are um who almost wish they had a Vaati of their own. And they're not as big because, well, you don't have a Vaati. It is one and two. As much as you need the lore coming through, you almost need that old kindly scholar to go, yeah, that I've pieced them together. and if you want to it almost well If anyone watching this wants to get in on the ground floor, you know what game has like hidden lore in it? Stars from Vagabond. i guess it right You could speculate on the meaning of the giant purple egg in the center of the universe. There you go.
00:42:37
Speaker
What do you think is going on in Upper Plague? They've come out. they'd be They'd be missing the point because you know the whole point of the story of Starship Vagabond is that no one knows what the egg is there for and it kind of doesn't matter. FNAF was 2014. Yeah, it just coincided. ah it was It was the heyday of a lot of like video gaming lore. I think we'd used, it's the internet's version of urban stories, right? yeah The hook-handed man, the ah the bloody Mary, because they were they were doing this with Binding of Isaac, where they're like, what's what's going on here? What's the lore? And it's like, yeah, it's about suicide um and um all this going through. FNAF is just the one that,
00:43:16
Speaker
I guess it's because it's a lot easier, right, to play FNAF, you just, you just kind of sit there and have a, what, a two minute run through. It's easy, it's easier to study and dig deep into games that are short. Also, or ah itself is timeless because every generation reaches an age where they're like, where is the cool thing? It's the thing that was verboten. And now I can kind of sneak behind my parents back and and watch something spooky. Yeah, there you know i go. Well, we got stuck on that for a while. Alex Armstrong gives $5 and says, speaking of Zelda, notice Twilight Princess has the Sonic 06 problem in reverse, where Link and Zelda have realistic faces and everyone else looks cartoony.
00:43:56
Speaker
I assumed they were just in a Harrison Bergeron situation. Wasn't expecting that drop. I feel like that's just kind of like, oh, we put a lot of time into the two main characters. ah Yeah. ah Like that kind of syndrome, right? It's not a controversial statement to say that you want the main characters that we're going to be looking at the whole time to be fun to look at. Yeah. And, you know, just sort of not off putting to look at at least. Yeah, and like Midna and Zant look good too, but they are inherently more cartoony just because they are- Yeah, Midna's pretty hot when they turn into an actual lady at the end. Yeah, let me tell you, I felt weird things at the end of that game. I've been staring at your bum this whole time, hot lady.
00:44:46
Speaker
Anyway, Vojtech gives $50 to Magenta Super Chat, no less, and says, morning gents, this is to make up for missing the past few of these. Welcome back, Vojtech, we missed you. You're more than made up for it there, Vojtech, you beloved, lovable bear, you. Oh, my favorite war bear. The book, The Hair That Done Called Height, gives two euros and says, what's your second and third favorite sort of ice cream? Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Strawberry and then mango. I would say labor. You're asking style because then it's froyo and sorbet. I was ready. I would say mint choc chip would be my second because my favorite is mint cookie crunch. Oh, is that like Victoria?
00:45:34
Speaker
yeah Yeah, or instead of the chocolate chips where way that you kind of break a tooth on as you're going through the ice cream, you will have sort of soft chocolate cookie pieces o in the mint chocolate and it's a much more consistent texture. What a churro flavored ice cream. A couple of weeks ago and it was very good. A little brown sugar, cinnamon, caramel, churro chunks in my ice cream. Excellent. Well done ice cream maker. I think I've had that. Uh, cherry, anything that blends cherry into chocolate is okay in my book. Oh, cordials. That's what I was thinking. Except cordials. Oh, you don't like them? Uh, is it because they're the natural enemy of, uh, Ferrari rockers? Ferrari rockers. rochets
00:46:26
Speaker
Ferrari rockers. Oh, for a roger. Okay. Yeah.
00:46:33
Speaker
Uh, Jeffrey of Monmouth gives $2 says calling everything law is the real law problem. and I guess we've discovered in the course of this discussion that there are multiple flavors of law. ah Yeah. Perhaps we need more differentiating terms. Surely. I want to know too much of ceases to be lower. Oh, I don't know. Ooh. Words are a pain. Yeah. Is it Lord Tovati or is that just but that's just like it's just yeah these like around do you need a authority because in life we we have no God to go Yeah, that's right. That's wrong. Whereas here. The God is Miyazaki. You know, well, what you're talking about there is canon. And canon is not necessarily the same thing as law. See, look at this. This is awful.
00:47:23
Speaker
Also, the front he's from soft is notoriously um quiet after the launch of a game about confirming anything. They kind of throw everything out there and they're like, well, it's yours now. We're not going to talk about what what this game is both. more fun to let people speculate. As I said, if you just even just ruin the mystery for everyone, then suddenly loses its appeal. Better to do that than like the JK Rowling of like, actually, Ron was Latino. roaldo who is and gay And also he was in a wheelchair the whole time. I just didn't mention it. bill Because I'm that woke.
00:48:04
Speaker
Uh, uh, FoxD, you saw dollars says games that player driven world building and persistent emergent gameplay have better law than ones with authored stories. If you were imaginative enough. different have Different stories, right? Like those are very different player created stories are very different than author created stories in my mind. yeah Yeah, yes, yes, for quite. That's like the emerging story that comes out of Ark every time you play. You know what I mean? No, I do. I do like it when a developer has the brass to go, there is a story here. It doesn't matter what you did. There is one like in thief, right? I quite enjoyed that. It's open ended. Maybe I'm the worst. Maybe Garrett in mine is the worst thief ever, but he's not. He's very well accomplished in his world. So I i do like having a nice through line.
00:48:53
Speaker
ah Tommy Salty gives 25 PLNs and says, Lore is secondary to a good story or fun gameplay. Too many film stroke games insist on Lore. We don't need to know where Han Solo's name comes from. Love ya. Yeah, it just depends, don't it? Like, and you brought up better Khosol. We find out where he gets the the ring. Sure, yeah. All right. I haven't seen that particular clip. You won't get it, so it doesn't matter. I've seen a couple of clips about his brother being really weird about electricity. He doesn't want to go outside. The electricity is going to do weird things to him. You got to wreck yourself in one of those aluminum foil blankets. Maybe they're just like watching clips of Mike. I like watching very competent people at work. Oh my God, he's the most competent. That's good.
00:49:42
Speaker
Uh, Blistered Soul gives 5.5 pounds and says studios incentivize law. It stokes an active fan base and YouTube theories. Look how desperately Hello Neighbor begged for Matt Pat's attention on Twitter. Yeah, that was a sad one. No, I won't speak to this because I can't. and This was another rumor, I guess, ah that Call of Duty leaned into more of that. zombie lore because so many cod YouTubers were essentially free marketing. So they would make, fill it with lore and then hand it to them first and they would be the ones breaking it. And then it's like, Oh, this is like, this is like the dark universe thing though. You can't, ah you can't front load the law. You got to start with the fun thing that people get attached to. And then you can add the law because of that attachment. Yeah. You're skipping steps there. Yeah.
00:50:29
Speaker
Alex Armstrong gives $5 and says, as long as games don't do the WBDC thing where we have to watch four different things in order to understand the overarching franchise lore, we're cool. Yeah. It's like, it's like Pokemon games, isn't it? Just to get all the characters, no one's gonna use the system length, they're just gonna buy both versions of the game.
00:50:54
Speaker
Well, I think that stuff comes more out of Japanese culture because they have such a dense population and everyone's hanging out on public transport using their Nintendo DS's. So a sort of connecting with other players in the wild is much more likely in Japan. Never been. Is this true, Marty? yeah Yeah, ish. Did you trade Pokemon when you were in Japan? I didn't. like I brought my DS at one, or 3DS at one point in Street past, which was very exciting. Yeah. That was where you'd have like your DS in your back pocket. And if you came close to someone else with a DS, like your characters would would look do little swappies. That's definitely something that came out of Japan's extremely dense population culture.
00:51:39
Speaker
Is it wrong to want to go to Japan just to experience that specifically? Of all the things I want to street press somebody. also good They also got good eats. Yeah. Most Michelin stars of any city. Not once Karmy's done with Chicago. Oh boy. Oh boy. Hawk abridging gives side dollars says recently beat Live Alive and loved it. It had interesting lore for each scenario. What did those of you who played it think of the game overall? I loved Live Alive. I thought it was great. Make me another one.
00:52:10
Speaker
Make me another one clown. I don't know why I called them clowns. too That was the one that was the Square Enix. It was an old Super Famicom RPG that never got ported. Never got brought to America. Finally got brought on Switch. um and It's little short stories. It's like seven little short stories that you play. And then they all sort of mine in the end in a really great way. I like this. Yeah, I thought it was excellent. I think I played the demo of it, but you know, couldn't be asked three hundred if I'm honest.
00:52:40
Speaker
Ahem... Rose Delta gives $2 and says this makes excellent white noise to bead to. You're beading out here. Oh my god. What are we beading? He's beading. Someone's beading. Someone beading on our time. I gotta be, I gotta, I gotta Majora's Mask bead behind me. Look at that. Look at that. Spicy.BP gives $5 and says Marty and his need to be baby birded Elden Rings lore with Vati explaining everything. Don't worry, we all do it. See? But he's great. That's great. And he's got such a pleasant voice to listen to. Oh, he's got the best voice. Very nice and calming. But if you have can, if you've just got a nice voice to listen to that on YouTube, you're halfway there.
00:53:23
Speaker
but It's also George RR Martin, right? I think many people are curious to know what he's... I swear there was one YouTuber that's been parsing to go, this is Miyazaki and this is George RR Martin, and I can't look away. I don't know if any of it's actually founded on anything solid, but I just cannot look away. Yeah, you could definitely find some. If if they stole it from Berserk, it was Miyazaki. And if if all the characters have names that all sound alike, then it's George RR Martin. Easy peasy. Fair enough. As a rapper, I remember for five months in Tip Jar, thank you very much. Clubster Roll gives $10 and says, I found Dune hard to read. I couldn't follow the story due to what felt like constant lore information expressed through jargon. Yes, you're not a big sci-fi fan then, huh? If you don't know what the flajimba-bladder is. Epic sci-fi, I think, ah specifically. What's the difference?
00:54:18
Speaker
Well, epic sci-fi is Dune. Dune is epic sci-fi because it's full of lore. Whereas just plain sci-fi would be just, I don't know, Harrison Bergeron. A short story where it that explores the sci-fi concept. Is it a question of scale then? I suppose. Okay. Like Tolkien and space, right? Yeah, that's that's epic. Okay. Uh, FoxD gives $2 and says player quizzing is return of the Obra Dins hat. Yeah, that is actually talking about just quizzial microbis
00:54:54
Speaker
yeah yeah that's basically how ah you do a detective game. It's just a quiz. I'm really curious to see what he works on next. That isn't the Cranker game. I'm still curious to see that. Yeah, tsunami do sugar is $20 and says nothing. thing But he got a like for that from someone. So you know, you do that live your best life. and So I'm gonna go Wow, nice. ah Doran Grossman Naples gives $10 says dark souls having law in item descriptions works because it's an RPG. So you naturally spend a lot of time reading about your items. If you had to go out of your way, it would be obnoxious.
00:55:36
Speaker
I'd also argue for Dark Souls is that it's a game designed to be enjoyed as a community, much like the Five Nights at Freddy's lore. I mean, that's what the point of all the messages on the ground and summoning players to help you in boss fights is for. You're supposed to be exchanging notes on the story. putting wikis together. And that's how yeah's how you build your understanding of the story with your friends. They also in the in the update that released in the core Elden Ring game, even ah like alongside the DLC, they added two extremely helpful quality of life things that are keeping me reading the lore of everything I pick up, which is a recent items tab. So tab that just has all the recent items you picked up, which is great. And also a little, uh, a little like exclamation point icon in the corner of an item, if it's new and you haven't highlighted it yet. And so, um, that is a great way to where I don't read everything as soon as I pick it up, but I'll be like, okay, I got to the next bonfire. Let's read the shit. I'm going to shit needs. some the yeah i' having a shit let's Let's read what this weird gloves.
00:56:39
Speaker
It is, that's lore to me. and when i say i know it When I see it, it's ah do you guys ever have those L'Oreal shampoos on the fact they've got animal facts on them? Oh yeah. The narrative is the ingredients and all that nonsense. Is that why it's called L'Oreal? It teaches you a little bit of the animal lore? Yeah, and that was the pun we were making. up No, I don't know. so what about What if, should more games, a game like Dark Souls, should you be able to pull up your inventory on your phone and read it when you're not by the game? You can't do anything with it, but you can read the descriptions. In the same way, remember when Destiny 1 came out, its whole thing was like its story was going to be delivered via this grimoire that you, that was like an app. That was that small window where every game had like a companion app alongside it. um The only times I dig my phone out while I'm playing a game is when a cut scene's going on that's kind of making me cringe.
00:57:30
Speaker
So I was doing that a lot playing Hellblade 2. So Hellblade 2 might have benefited from an app. Yeah, there you go. Reminding you that these are not real people. I'm very much on the plate kind of guy, keep it in the game for me. It's still in the game, but you can access it. It's on the phone. I'm not gonna, I don't even access QR codes for menus. I don't like that. It could be paper, it could be death. How do I need to get another screen out? This is my whole question of that surrounded the Wii U. Oh, okay, I see what you mean. You can just look up the wiki while you're on the show. Oh, I meant when you're away from your television. Like, oh, I'm on the bus. Yeah, I'm not doing it. I'm not pulling it up while I'm there. Sure, yeah. A little flavor. Well, I read books on the bus on my on my Kindle app.
00:58:17
Speaker
What if you're taking a shit on the bus and you want to know about what this spirit actually was all about? This is a little shit. oh Not enough for a chapter. I'll download Varti Vidya's new book, I guess. Damn. He's got a book? Yeah, he's got a book out. What is it? It's ah it's about Dark Souls lore. I should have guessed. I don't know what I expected. I'm not sure what yeah what I was expecting. ah Tommy Salty gives 25 PLNs and says 12 minutes Marty's favorite game has the best lore just like Fast and Furious it's about family. You could say that everything stays in the family. Do you Tommy Salty? Oh you. I wasn't even on that 12 minute stream. How am I taking strays there? I don't even like that game. You played it didn't you? Nobody likes it.
00:59:06
Speaker
well very well yeah Well, I liked it until I got to the ending and then I didn't like it. and I think that's the experience most people have. Yeah. Uh, Zaratha gives two our dollars and says a little praise for Tommy Salty's bit right there. Damn. Well, why don't we just fucking get Tommy's old. You're the podcast. A beloved bit. beloved bit. Yeah. ah The otaku cat gives five dollars and says, what if they added a Return of the Obra Dinn notebook mechanic to figuring out the lore to Souls games?
00:59:39
Speaker
Like you get an extra little, like do it like, um, curse the golden idol where you'd get an extra little reward. If you get a flash recharge, if you can solve the quiz of who the fuck is boss that you're fighting against, if you can just, if you just fill in the blanks correctly through trial and error, then you get an extra this flask. Yeah. I'd appreciate that. I don't know. I feel about this. We're going to get, we're getting weird. Eventually it's going to be like new souls. Like comes through, watch an ad for an extra flask. Like no, We beat the mods, and it's worth it. Alexander Shrungis, $5, and says, off topic, found a BPM clone for you, Yachts. Robo beat. Replace Norse with ultra kill-ish cyberpunk dual wheel, choose your song list, and one weapon is ping pong. I don't know. I'm kind of getting bored of ah action rhythm games. I was playing that one on Yachty Tries, but whose name I completely forget. I maybe realized, you know, these are kind of getting overdone.
01:00:39
Speaker
So you're getting a little tired of souls likes and a little tired of action rhythm games. Is there a genre that you're on like the upward slope of like, Ooh, give me more of these. I want more of these right now.
01:00:51
Speaker
Well, I have, well, I have been in enjoying nine souls. Maybe I'm getting back on the souls like wagon. Who knows? and i so like Just a different style, you know? Yeah. yeah Uh, Fox D gives five dollars and says, oversaturation of films, books, games and tie-ins plays into the obsessive nature of nerd culture. People tie their identities into these franchises.
01:01:15
Speaker
yeahs part of the bra what do you mean
01:01:19
Speaker
It's when it becomes like someone's like unpaid internship of like studying. influences um As a collective, it is imperative to what we do for as a job that we stay in the know. Do you think others though are assuming they should too? you don't you guys don't have to watch everything we watch and play everything we watch you know this homemo right if you're engaged online then you get into that room oh my god everyone's posting what they're doing at Elden Ring and now I feel like it done so and I guess yeah everyone is just games journalists and reviewers and stuff then you might feel that
01:01:55
Speaker
Well, everyone's got a YouTube. Everyone's got a YouTube channel. Everyone's on some level a game journalist, go to Reddit, go to patient gamers, talk to them like they're just now discovering like Witcher three and talking about how great it is. It's good. pace yourself. Squirtle Squad 420 gives $5 says back in the day you'd read the game's manual in the back of your parents car on the ride home. Get a heads up of what the game's world and characters Yeah, I really love that. Funny, that's why rogue games have a lore problem with them never telling you anything. It's because it used to be in the manuals. And then they went to digital and they forgot to put it in. Yeah.
01:02:39
Speaker
Horka Bridging gives final answers. I liked how Terry Pratchett handled lore, made Discworld feel like a living world regardless of how strange it gets or how unnecessary it seems. How'd he do it? Yeah, I read a lot of Discworld books. Again, ah the central actual surface plots were strong and self-contained, which is important. But he'd always like put footnotes at the bottom of the page ah when ah something needed explaining. And he'd tell like a little funny story ah attached to it. Very much like the way Douglas Adams wrote Hitchhiker's Guide. He'd just pause the story to tell a fun story from elsewhere in the universe. To explain, to give context to something somebody said. so love manynier what And it was fun.
01:03:24
Speaker
I feel like that's a very, that's a very dangerous tightrope to walk. Like if you're someone like Braggert or Adams, you can, you can pull it off. If you are not, that's just going to come off as so like self-serving. I guess it works cause it's funny. There's like a little, you know, funny anecdote on the side. that yeah You can enjoy i guess that should kind of like so um the same thing. Yeah. Which also builds the law. Yeah. Uh, the piss bandit gives him the list and says, I want to blame SCPs for being patient zero of the terrible law dump epidemic. When I go insane and move into the woods to become the unigamer. I'm a unigamer. You know, you're not going to become the uni, but you already have your, your terrorist name. It's the piss bandit. Who was that masked urinator?
01:04:13
Speaker
Uh, I kind of like SCP's creepy pasta in that I like just dipping a toe in them every once in a while and being like, Oh, this was a neat story. And then not really thinking about it. It's the people where it's like, this is my identity, which I guess is a danger. A pure lore experience, isn't that? Yeah, that's the thing is, I think the problem is a big wave of like, we must know. A lot of people were fine, which is gobbling up more, again, more Bloody Marys and more Slender and all that kind of stuff. But there is this crowd that demands to know and they will pay good money to know. So yeah, you know, so we end up. yeah Yeah, if the market will pay, the market will supply.
01:04:53
Speaker
I thought that was going to rhyme, and I was disappointed when it didn't rhyme. If the market demands it, the market remains it. Beautiful. I'm not sure it makes sense, but I like it. If the glove don't fit, you must acquit. A blank member for seven months in the green gear in the Green Gang says, thoughts on Mario Brothers' law on the n NES? I liked it better when Birdo was transgender. What is the law? Still not transgendered they're brothers. I think they backtracked on the transgender thing back in the day. I know. Uh, no, the lore is like that, that mushroom kingdom citizens got turned into gumbas and blocks. And that when you destroy a gumbo or a block, you're killing a man. I'm getting points for it. How bad could it be? Yeah. That's just, that's just your body count. Yeah. That's all right. Yeah.
01:05:47
Speaker
Uh, ah, gives four 99 and says hearing yards talk about movies makes me want him to have him on an episode of the rewind and Darren on a Yahtzee tries time permitting. regard him onendo We have our own little worlds. What have you never seen them in the same room? How do we not know they're the same person? How do we know they're not the same? I'm not Irish and much this also true. When you're in this room, you know, Yeah. We could have another room filled with comic books. Think about it. Where you turn Irish. And next time Yahtzee goes to a movie theater, he's welcome to come on the entertainment show. I can't even fake a decent Irish accent. I thought that was beautiful. That was great. He sells nothing like that. What, Derek? Yeah. No, I'm talking to my little Irish pixie voice.
01:06:37
Speaker
Yup. He sure is. That's beautiful. Or they will always have to be Lucky Charms. This is why the Irish don't have the English party. Yeah, this is the lore. Yeah, this is happened now. This is happened now. Yeah. FoxD, you saw the list. The garden says good God. The Irish contingency has chimed in. When writing, ask an outsider to read it and lure up anything they say they didn't understand. Only far enough to ah answer the question asked. If you want. Depends. Depends. You don't need to know everything. You'll be richer for it. Every note you've written, you're like, well, it's lore. Like, even if you cut something like this is lore.
01:07:21
Speaker
oh um Faith and Bigora, Alex Armstrong, gives $2 and says, any Riven fans who wind about your Yahtzee tries? Oh yes, Alex Armstrong. You should check out the the comments to both the VOD of the stream and the compilation episode on Sunday, because my goodness, there were some pained bottoms after I did Riven. like you It gets better after 17 hours and you after you read the books. You should have done your due diligence and went to your Barnes and Nobles and got the books. I played Riven back when I liked point click adventure games. I played through Myst first. I actually quite liked Myst and then I started on Riven and I was like, I haven't got the first fucking clue what I'm doing. There are only so many bits of old pipe I can fiddle with.
01:08:12
Speaker
ah baba
01:08:15
Speaker
I always love the comments when a thing like this happens and people get mad at it because it's the people who are like, for years they'll be like, fuck yeah, tear into that game, make fun of it, make fun of it. And it's like, whoa, whoa, whoa. You crossed the line. You crossed this line. You can't cross this line. You thought Yatsuyu would never turn the car around and do one for Riven. but
01:08:38
Speaker
gaze not into the snark, unless the snark gaze also onto you. but say Yeah, you get the attention of the cynic. Do you think that game would be any good in VR? They're like advertising how good it is in VR. I mean, just if you like, if you like that thing in your like default VR ah software that just puts you in a nice room, then sure. I mean, that sounds great. sure some very Put you in some very pretty rooms. Hell yeah. Hmm. Uh, with hisism gives $5 and says, Hey, Marty played through all of minishoot adventures over a lazy Sunday yesterday.
Humorous Analysis of Game Enjoyment
01:09:10
Speaker
Quite enjoyed it. Thanks for the recommendation. Oh, you're welcome. So that's you and Jack. Two people played through it all. you got Great. The big two. And me. This is him and Jack. And Ross, the big three. I had a good look. I, uh, I liked what I played a bit on the stream. Does it, how good does it get? It gets, I, again, I don't want to be the guy that says it keeps getting better. and It's a level of enjoyment.
01:09:32
Speaker
Yeah, as it keeps folding in more kind of wrinkles, it's it's kind of basic in the first hour. so and life Well, I guess a wrinkle is a good thing to fold in. A fairly natural mixed metaphor there. I fucked up. but Or did I? mean when we When we say fold in, we're talking about mixing cake batter, but when we say wrinkles, we're talking about another kind of fold altogether. You can replay your food. That's classic mixed metaphors right there. I mean, you can wrinkle in time. we folded that We folded them together and they were fine. I think if you can wrinkle your food, something's gone wrong. solink You wrinkle, yeah, or you wrinkle like cold cuts. If my pancakes turn out wrinkled, then ive like I wielded my spatula wrong. I'm sorry. It's a panini, but a wrinkled sandwich.
01:10:20
Speaker
Well, anyway, but we digress.
Differentiating Impactful Game Lore
01:10:24
Speaker
Ryan Betts gives side dollars and says, what terms can we use to distinguish between law that interacts with goal stroke actions in game, e.g. Dark Souls versus law that doesn't e.g. Overwatch? That's interesting. I did like how they did it very separate from the whole. Let's showcase some of the abilities and some of the environments and bam, little Pixar cuts. I don't know what you would call that, but it was great. Take me back to that time.
01:10:51
Speaker
What is that? You'll make words, yachts for a living, if I'm reminded. Well, that's got to be an easy way to differentiate law that's actually in the game and law that and is entirely not in the game. Passive, you know, auxiliary law. There you go. Integrated law, there you go. Yeah. What's the absolute law? Extigrated? Oh. Separate. separate so I think it's implied that it's still separate, huh? Modular, separate, uh, detached.
01:11:26
Speaker
Take your, I mean, take your pick. Um, prize fighter, give side dollars and says for better or worse, sizable law allows the bringing back of fan favorite characters because why not? What should be what like, what like hot pie. but everyone's favorite game of throne in throws Everyone's favorite game of thrones character, Hot Pie, who kept coming back for literally no reason. because because He was the guy who was with Arya for a while and then he became a baker and he was like, he worked in like a random ass tavern. And then like on like three occasions, another character shows up randomly at his inn and he delivers exposition to them that he just somehow has.
01:12:04
Speaker
He baked, ah he baked Ariello from bread in the shape of her direwolf. Yeah, those are fun. Yes. I was a character who'd very much become aware of the fact that he was a bit player in someone else's story, and was just sort of leaning into it at that point. Good for him. Yeah.
Role of Minor Characters in Lore
01:12:20
Speaker
but I like when Game of Thrones would occasionally like focus on the small folk and be like, this is what this person's up to. And talk all this talk about pies is making me even more hungry than I usually am at this time. you may I'm gonna have a nice wrinkled lunch. Yeah, I'm going to have a good old lunch after this. ah Wesley Thomas gives to Canadian dollars and says, the egg will hatch into Chizeau. Referring to the egg in Starstruck Vagabond. Well, I hate to open the mystery box too soon, but no, it won't do it anyways. Oh, do it again.
01:12:55
Speaker
Spicy.BP gives $2 and says, Frost coming in with Ferrari rockers, lol. So yeah, I didn't pass it because I've always known how to pronounce Ferrero Rocher because they had that famous advert. Oh, Monsieur Ambassador, was this Ferrero Rocher? You are really spoiling us. Perfect Irish accent and a perfect French accent in the same stream. I thought you were implying that was the Irish accent.
01:13:22
Speaker
stop condescending to my terrible accents just cause you've never left the country. but as't marty true I'm going to the Dominican Republic in two weeks. Oh, okay. Come back tan so education gets in the way. It doesn't count unless you leave the resort. Remember that. I'm absolutely leaving the resort. I'm going to abandon my family very quickly. well Jackson Jewel gives $5 and says, how do you feel about extra lore in games where there is a codex that you definitely do not need to read,
Optional Lore and Player Engagement in Skyrim
01:13:52
Speaker
e.g. Mass Effect, Dragon Age, et cetera? You know, say what you will. When Skyrim did that, because it's full of books and it's all lore and nonsense that you don't need, but one of them happens to actually go into a little side quest for you. That feels was pretty good. I like that. Just like, yeah yeah, you don't need any of this stuff, but if you want to,
01:14:13
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. But for the sickos out there, enjoy this. I would like to enjoy toffee. Who's not in his usual spot i to sit next to me out of shot. So I thought I'd better give everyone their toffee time. ah you time a time ah ah boom boomo Oh Christ. I jumped to the bottom again. Uh, Palaszti. Palaszti gives 4.99 and says, Asimov famously fucked up in the 70s by trying to connect Foundation trilogy to self-contained robot short stories. Contrivance does not make good lore. If anything, it's the opposite, no? If it's just simple.
01:14:54
Speaker
quick, easy, boom. Oh, that's what I keep saying. Like, let's just ditch stuff. Just ditch this franchise after the third one and go back and just get back to basics. Just tell a nice fun story that doesn't need law and then see what it goes. If anything, the law should be the simple thing in the middle of the entire story. I mean, that's what Resident Evil 4 did. Resident Evil 4 works without any of the previous tangled, terrible Resident Evil series lore. It's just Rescue the President's Daughter from Matt Keltis, and that's why it works so well. That's the seven. Yeah, so i was like that's what got my interest. I never really cared for Resident Evil. I felt i hadn't I couldn't catch up in time, but that one is it was very Cloverfield, wasn't it? Very self-contained. Something else is happening elsewhere, but this is about this, just right now.
01:15:42
Speaker
i ah Chris LaHaye gives $2 and says, wasn't Lord of the Rings lore first? What was the first lore? Beowulf? The Bible. Bible. The Bible.
Authors' Experiences Shaping Lore
01:15:55
Speaker
ah lo ah ah You're allowed to make lore, ah do a lore first story if you fought in one of the two world wars. Instead Tolkien fought in World War I. There you go. And Ian Fleming is allowed to have all the lore he wants. There you go. on the wars Congrats guys.
01:16:15
Speaker
He was an intelligence officer. That's fun. So was, so was rolled dial. Incidentally, they were friends. He was in the war. Yeah. He was an intelligence officer. He had the job of seducing enemy wives. ah There's a job. base Gene Roddenberry was. Now I want a movie about all these fucking authors and all these creators. I think the closest you'll get is Operation Mincemeat. Yeah, I mean anyone who was creating stuff in the 60s, chances are they fought in World War II. Yeah. Because pretty much everyone did. Switch for the fuck of it. I missed the first one. I gotta be in this one, you know. Get me in the sequel.
01:16:58
Speaker
Yeah.
01:17:03
Speaker
Let's hear 2000 gives five euros. There's interesting that Yahtzee is getting back into nine souls when he didn't really like it on stream. I've never saying on stream that I'd need to put more time into it to fully appreciate it. And for some reason, they keep drawing me back and ah yeah, I'm into it.
Returning to Challenging Games
01:17:22
Speaker
I'm not sure it is on stream. You said you were just stuck on that one boss. Well, I've got past it now. I'm stuck on a different boss now. That's good. As the cycle goes. Yeah. yeah Although, you know, again, I'm finding I'm feeling like if I just persevere and memorize the timing, then it's only a matter of time. ah B.S. Marsh gives five dollars and says the problem with law and any genre property in all mediums from Angel to Zork is that they all get buried under the weight of their own mythology.
01:17:53
Speaker
from Angel's Resort is a very good product in that sentence. Wow. Yeah. Ended after the third. Keep saying. Surely you could have said Aardvark though, no? The old comic that got really weird near the end. Am I the only one who knows it though? Yahtzee knows Aardvark. That's Seribus the Aardvark. It's called Seribus. It doesn't stop there. The three had a dog? No, Seribus, not Cerberus. No, he was sort of a pioneer for comics when he got really weird in the end. Yeah, that's something that got lost in its fucking law, isn't it? Incredible. Dang. Yeah, so you can end up burying yourself under your own mythology, I would say. i'm not I'm not saying that it is a fact, but Elden Ring kind of starting to feel that way to me, you know? There's a lot going on there. I'm more curious about, it was, I don't know if you you guys got into this. It was, ah you go back to the hub in Elden Ring. There's that girl there.
01:18:49
Speaker
And she was like, oh, there's weird whispering outside. I was more curious about that than whatever else was going on elsewhere. I don't know where the fuck this place is. i thought i'm like a pocket Where the are we? Where are we?
01:19:03
Speaker
ah Alex Armstrong comes back with another $5 and says, Yahtzee handled lore in his games and novels best by just making references that don't strictly connect, but are still there for fans. Dida, especially. Yeah, I mean, the my brave main character of Five Days a Stranger, Trilby the cat burglar, ah may or may not also be a character in The Consuming Shadow, and may or may not also be a character in the deed of books. There you go. It's up to you if you want him to be. But if you don't want him to be, that's fine as well. You really have to be careful, though, with
Difference Between Lore and Easter Eggs
01:19:41
Speaker
lore.
01:19:41
Speaker
ah Because I guess it blurs that line between lore and easter egg to it's like this is for people with very specific knowledge. Like Marty, I know you got through this episode. Do you remember the fork on the ground and the bear? Yes. Do you get that? Do you understand what that was? Was it a reference to the dinner from last season, like the holiday dinner? No, no. So here's the Lord now, if you guys don't know. The rumor is when there's a Michelin um critic in your restaurant, they put a fork down on the ground because they're testing your servers.
01:20:15
Speaker
Uh, and then, and then I got to the episode where they're like, Oh shit, someone from the trivia. I don't know if people understand. I was like, no way. And I was like, what does that mean? I was like, they're there. They're there right now. Oh no. I didn't realize that. But it does this to people like Yahtzee. See, like he doesn't understand. So he's not as involved. You have to be careful with the lore. You have to be careful with the lore. Everyone has seen Star Trek. Everyone has not seen Star Trek. Not the old ones. I saw the new ones with a British name cucumber face. Yeah. Yeah. Please abuse my surname. Yes. It also plays Doctor Strange in the Marvel Cinematic Universe. It does. This is true. I saw it. Yeah, he sure is. He played Sherlock. But then many people have. He's also really good at Junior. Speaking of supporting the troops. He was also in those Netflix role doll adaptations of the four short stories done by Wes Anderson. Henry Sugar. Okay.
01:21:27
Speaker
A stranded Risalka gives five pounds and says, get Frost to be the Vahti for Starstruck Vagabond. Yachts gives the law. Frost reads in a video. Easy money right there. It's known as organic. You need some culture.
Vahti, the Lore Creator Conspiracy
01:21:40
Speaker
It's fun if I have to write down the law. It turns out Vahti's just Miyazaki. Putting on an accent. Yeah. Well, I'd be very impressed by his ability to stay gay since then. That's very good.
01:21:56
Speaker
Uh, Fox Deeg is vitalist and says bouncing around an established world is why 22 short films about Springfield was the best Simpsons episode. It was a great episode. Well, the Steamed Hams sketch is the best Simpsons episode. Everything else I could take will leave. No, a lot of them are good. That one's probably the most iconic, obviously, especially in the last few years. I was watching, uh, Steamed Hams edit it just this morning, actually.
01:22:22
Speaker
and
01:22:25
Speaker
ah caden ninja gives ten dollars and says adding law to star wars lost its mystique feeling of a fascinating glimpse of a strange wondrous other world but law made the fantasy mundane that's the trade-off of law I think that's a, I think that's a good point. It's funny, we're as we're going through the, Casey and I are going through the Devil May Cry games, we are enjoying a DMC Devil May Cry, the the Ninja Theory one, the most. And I think it's because it's story and and everything is just contained in that one text. Whereas with the other games, it's all like, oh, this is referencing this relationship from the old one. And oh, this is a callback to this. And since we're not super fans, we're like, we don't get this. Whereas the the Ninja Theory one just feels like ah so like an easy to consume singular thing. So I feel like for novices, it is easier to enjoy.
01:23:13
Speaker
I'm just remembering the one bit in DMC Devil May Cry where a mop falls onto the main character's head and he looks at himself in the mirror and then smirks and goes, nah, because that was the moment I wanted to punch the game in the face. Oh, we thought that moment was great. Hellblade? Hellblade, yeah, the DMC Devil May Cry. then Yep. Same guys. That was the game they did before Hellblade. Wow. They either do all the gameplay or no gameplay at all. want to work on but crowd
01:23:43
Speaker
Well, that was the last super chat. Well, as with all great lore, it comes down to the community discussion. I feel like the end of every one of our episodes is what conclusion we come to. It depends. No, I think I'd like to dream that 20 years from now, some huge game comes through and they were like, oh, I got into this because I watched a Windbreakers podcast and all their questions really made me think on things. And now I made the most predatory gacha game. Well, you know, even if I don't acknowledge us, we can at least feel like we've planted seeds in their subconscious. I'm spoiling right now.
Podcast Wrap-Up and Current Projects
01:24:30
Speaker
Well, you're boring boring. Hey, I'm a fun guy. Oh, oh my God. Well, on that note, before we start making any more puns, let's end the the podcast. So I'm Yahtzee Croshaw. I do a weekly series called Fully Ramblamatic that used to be called Zero Punctuation when we were at the escapist, but it's basically the same thing. And this week I'm doing Cryptmaster, because I felt like I wanted to inject some positivity into the season. oh you I've also got Yahtzee Tries this week, which I haven't decided what I'm going to be playing there, but I don't usually till the day. And I got a semi-ramble about it coming out on Thursday as well. So that's my stuff.
01:25:18
Speaker
Are you gonna do a game about bloods next week? It's only fair if you do a game about Crips this week. Oh no. That was a little Los Angeles gang humor for y'all. That was a bad pun. That wasn't even a pun. That was just, that was social commentary. That's what that was. They've been united with Kendrick. Are the bloods in the Crips even a thing anymore? They are. This shows how nice of a neighborhood you live in. I suppose.
01:25:48
Speaker
I know how um bit gritty it can get. I've watched clips of Breaking Bad when they go to Mexico. The yellow filter. How yellow it can get. It's very fucking yellow sometimes. You guys plug your stuff. All right, I'm gonna plug Dimitri first to Canadian. I was late, but take this $2 anyways. Thank you, thank you. As far as what I've made, go watch the newest cult, talking about those hardworking games, journalists, and it's getting a little heated, brother. It's getting a little heated, but yeah, go ahead and give your thoughts on that. I say we roast them just like we roast each other with love, right? We need to we to take a step back from that. Marty, wait what are we doing here?
01:26:31
Speaker
Wait, are you including us in- We're not journalists. No, we're not journalists. Well, we kind of are. The three of us here. Oh, yeah? When was the last time you reported a fact? like You don't have to strictly report on facts to be a journalist. You write yeah only you just have to write you just have to write for something called a journal. sure could One could say the escapist was a journal. Sure. They are dead in the water now. but You tell me last time you you said a fact and I'll include you. I don't think you want to be included. yet' I'm just saying, if not for this video. You can be included in the in the next one.
01:27:08
Speaker
I said Hellblade 2 sucked. Does that count? That was hard hitting. I still say all we do is write book reports about toys. I say we're bloggers, toys. Oh, that's good. Oh, little bloggers. Little bloggers. I want to be a mommy blogger. That's what I want to be. I want to see what's going on with the mommies. I'm a critic. That's got some cachet to it. Exactly. yeah I would argue that a cri that criticism is a form of journalism. I just think it's a sort of for of public self-flagellation, but this is semantics. Marty, what what do we do around here? What's next? Jobbly, thank you so much for joining, for being a tip jar for seven months. Yahtzee, I acknowledge Lore from Star Trek. Is there a character named Lore? It was a capital L, Lore. Yes, yes. There's an occurring villain character who's like Data's evil twin called Lore. Oh, that's nerdy. There's a man named Data and there's a man named Lore.
01:27:59
Speaker
Yeah, that was that that was the joke, basically. And Wesley Thomas with two Canadian dollars. I have the last word. ah You've done it, Wesley Thomas. I'm proud of you. ah Later today, we will have ah hidden gems at the normal time, 6 p.m. tonight. I will be filling in for Jesse because Jesse is going to be on vacation. And Casey is going to be playing indivisible, which is like the action game from a couple of years ago. more Yes, I remember that. Seven years ago. I did a zero punctuation of it back in the day. Will you pro or con? ah In the end, we're calling, I guess. Okay. Yeah. We'll have ah most of the normal streams for the rest of the week. No better. We're friends tomorrow. Did you already say that?
01:28:40
Speaker
Yeah, no better reference. Yeah, perfect. Yeah. otherwise I forgot. Oh, I forgot to plug ah the 1.1 update for Starship megabond is ah out. And it's a completely free update. It's got new content. It's got new outfits for characters. It's got new dialogues. It's got new missions. It's got new quaddled quality of life gameplay improvements. And the game is 20% off on the Steam summer sale. So you've got no excuse not to pick it up right down now and give it a good review. He's losing sight now this game for you guys. It was up at three in the morning. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I woke up at one in the morning this last night and suddenly realizing, wait, did I remember to turn off debug controls in the last build I uploaded? And ah I ran to my laptop and realized I hadn't. So if you
01:29:30
Speaker
had a mysteriously easy time filling in the, uh, Nuffle Planet exhibits at about 12 midnight last night. That would, that would have been why. I see. Got to crush a man who cares. Don't vote Labour. That's, that's the sound off. Okay. Yes, I care. Uh, don't vote Trump either. Please don't. Let's just all move to Canada.
01:30:00
Speaker
I don't know what's going on. OK, I guess we're done now. This is the real last word. Fuck you, Wesley Thomas. Ha, bye. Oh, no, Wesley. Bye, everyone.