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229: The Politics of Emotional Resilience - Dr. Jane Foster
82 Plays3 months ago
Dr Jane Foster has been a teacher and educator for over four decades, both in Australia and abroad. Throughout her career, she noticed how the pervasive culture of blame, criticism and judgement can be damaging and destructive. This realisation inspired her to establish MYTERN, which has since evolved into Emotional Resilience (ER). In her doctoral research, Jane evaluated the effectiveness of ER with first-year university students, and the results were impressive. It increased students’ psychological well-being, life satisfaction and resilience, whilst decreasing their levels of psychological distress. Her new book aims to share this life-saving skill with a wider audience.We are here to discuss the topic of emotional resilience.
In this podcast, Jane delves into:
1. How can you explain emotional resilience?
2. What are some ways we can become better at it?
3. Do certain people seem to have better ER than others? Explain your view – examples even.
4. Where can we learn these ER skills so we can be happier and more satisfied with our lives more often?
5. Takeaway: What is your final message for us on The Politics of ER?
Connect further:
https://www.itsinyourhandsdrjanefoster.com/
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Transcript
00:00:02
Speaker
Welcome to the politics of everything. I'm Amber Danes, your host and podcast producer. This is a half hour of power podcast dropping every week where I unpack the politics of everything from money to motherhood, nutrition to narcissism, startups to secularism, the environment, quality and much, much more. Our guests are seasoned in the field of topic of their choice, even if you've not heard of them yet. This is a nonpartisan show. So while I love exploring varied views and get a buzz from a healthy debate of ideas, this is not a purely blue, white, green program. Please subscribe, tune in and enjoy the politics of everything.
00:00:46
Speaker
Dr. Jane Foster has been a teacher and educator for over four decades, both in Australia and abroad. Throughout her career, she has noticed how the pervasive culture of blame, criticism and judgment can be damaging and destructive. This realisation inspired her to establish My turn, which since evolved into emotional resilience. I'm calling that ER r today for short. In her doctoral research, Jane evaluated the effectiveness of ER with first-year university students and the results were impressive. It increased students' psychological well-being,
00:01:17
Speaker
life satisfaction and resilience while decreasing their levels of psychological distress. Her latest book aims to share this lifesaving skill with a wider audience. And today we're here to discuss topic of emotional resilience. And so it's a warm welcome to Dr. Jane Foster. Hello. Thank you. Thank you, Amber. Podcasting remotely can be challenging, but it doesn't have to be. Since day one of the politics of everything, I have relied on Zincasters all in one solution to make the process quick and painless, the way it should be for those of us who just love great content and want to get our ideas out into the world. If you know me, I'm obsessed with quality in terms of my guests, my sound, and everything about my show has to be great the first time. I'm Time Paul.
00:02:01
Speaker
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00:02:49
Speaker
What did you want to be as a kid? I asked this of all my guests because I like to join the dots and see if there's any synergy or you've totally taken a completely different path to where you thought you might end up. OK, now I've really taken the path I think I i always had. um When I was at school, we had a wonderful um man who was he used to be head of Outward Bound in Scotland and he started taking us out. into the country on weekends and holidays. And that's where I really got interested in outdoor education, just finding what you could find within to get through that rock climb or you know mountain climb or kayaking. And so I went into outdoor education and there was a time when I was teaching it and I had a teenager on my belay rope and it was a very hard rock climb.
00:03:43
Speaker
And he was a teenager who was a bully and he also used to steal cars and do all sorts of things. And um as he was climbing up, he froze and was crying and I eventually talked him up. And when he got up to the top, he was a different person. It was the first time in his life where he'd actually found he'd succeeded from within. boom Or his success was stealing cars or you know punching someone up or doing something like that. and It was then I thought, you know what, this is what I want to do. I want to give people the tools.
00:04:23
Speaker
to be able to control their lives from within. Absolutely. Gosh, that's amazing. That's not exactly what I thought you'd say, but I never never know what guests are going to say. And how old were you around this time? What sort of age were you? When I first, ah probably 15. I wanted, yeah. And then probably 20 when I thought, this is what I want to do. Because when I was at school, it was me who was getting the power from within. But on that rock, I watched someone else get it, and that was really powerful. That's amazing. So just explain for us what this this idea of emotion and resilience is really all about. We talked about it a little bit in the introduction, and obviously you've done some doctoral research. So how would you sort of package it up for anyone who's kind of going, well, I think I know what you mean, but I'm not 100% sure.
00:05:12
Speaker
OK, well, the way I define it is the combination of emotional intelligence and resilience. You know, so emotional intelligence, which is just so important for everything, no matter what you're doing, you know, it's understanding your emotions and being in charge of your response. So it's that self-awareness, self-regulation, but also recognizing others emotions and response. But with empathy and compassion, without judgment and Resilience, well, I do that from a cognitive science definition, which is basically how quickly can you go from your amygdala to a prefrontal cortex, which means how quickly from an out of control position can you go to one that's in control. And in relationships, that's everything because if someone hurts you, how quickly can you turn around and say, well, look what's happening in their life, you know, and, and understand it's actually there.
00:06:11
Speaker
difficult time, not yours. Absolutely. Yeah, so the combination is incredibly powerful. Yeah, absolutely. I can see why that would be the case. Are there certain ways that we can exercise this to become better at emotional resilience? Obviously, you know, challenging times helps kind of produce some of this, but is there ways in which we can kind of Rather than having to necessarily come up against something really challenging like the example you gave at school with with that particular individual who had to do the rock climbing, is there other ways in which we can just be working on this you know throughout our life, throughout our day, and just make it part of part of how we operate, if you like? Definitely. and That's beautifully said because that was my mission, was
00:06:53
Speaker
How can I give people a really simple tool that they can use every day to create long-term change? So you're actually constantly building your emotional intelligence and resilience every day. And I looked at it and it's through language change because language changes in neural pathways. So it actually establishes new patterns. I mean, we all know what it's like when we go to a seminar and it's fantastic and we come home and yes, I'm going to do this. and You know, you might do it for a week, two weeks, and then no it just disappears and you go back to your old habits. Well, that's because you're reinforcing that old pattern with the same language. So if you change good and bad into rough and smooth, so emotions and everything else becomes rough and smooth. Because at the moment, emotions are good or bad.
00:07:46
Speaker
And everyone's saying, you know, if they're on a bad emotion, you know, they they feel a bad emotion like sadness or frustration or anger. You know, everyone says you've got to stop that. You've got to get onto a good emotion. Well, see, I've defined them as roads. So there's rough roads and smooth roads. Now, on which road will you build your resilience? Will you improve your driving skills? Well, it's obviously going to be a rough road, and yet what we're doing is we're picking everyone off the rough road and putting them on the smooth, thinking that we're doing the right thing.
00:08:21
Speaker
But no one's building their resilience. And what happens is if someone's on that rough road and there's no one there to pick them up, they are crashing. So it's using rough and smooth instead of good and bad to get rid of the judgment. You know, you need to feel all those emotions. And if you're on a rough road a lot, you know what? That's OK. You just need to learn to be in control. It's not having to be happy all the time, having to be on that smooth road. And if you're not, then you're failing. So it's it's the words to get rid of the judgment, but also words to empower you and give you back, basically, because this is all based on a metaphor, your own steering wheel. Because your steering wheel, only you drive it. We don't reach over and grab anyone else's steering wheel.
00:09:08
Speaker
but so so We are in control of i guess how we're operating. is that Is that what we're trying to do? and in a kind of Absolutely. it's ah's you know with It's being in control of your response because we're reaching over and grabbing other people's steering wheels. you know, by saying you should be going over here or I'll, you know, um I'm not feeling too good. It's OK. I'll take you for a coffee. I've got nothing to do. Kids, well, I'll give you something to do. You know, we're constantly doing that with friends. You know, I'm upset. Here's some flowers. Now, there's nothing wrong with doing that, but we're not giving people the chance to stop and think, well, how am I going to recon regain control?
00:09:48
Speaker
of the steering wheel and build my own resilience because we're doing it for everyone else as i said it doesn't mean you stop that you just give people the opportunity to do it themselves and it's. You know in the second language changes you know you need to stop saying it's your fault you're making me angry. Now, if I'm making you angry, I'm actually taking your steering wheel and you're left there with no steering wheel and feeling vulnerable and feeling a victim. And what's happening now is when you feel a victim, you want to regain your power. And so many people are doing that through retaliation. And the retaliation can be towards other people, but it can also be towards yourself.
00:10:33
Speaker
I mean, and look at people, you know, you said this to me, I'm going to say this to you. If someone on the road, you know, yes puts his finger up, you beat the horn. And we're doing this country- Yeah. actually You bomb me, so I'm going to bomb you. And it's when you feel a victim, yeah you do. And that's what all these school shootings about. They even name it up. You know, I'm shooting you because you didn't take me to the prom. I'm shooting, you know, it's all the justification and the reasoning for the action is sometimes, you know, the core of of I guess what what has to be dealt with. And do you think certain people have
00:11:09
Speaker
better e r ah than others. like Is it something that's like born and made kind of question, I guess is really, or was it something up to with how you brought up or how you surround yourself with the right people? like What's some examples that you think can showcase this? It's interesting because you can come from the same family with the same situations, the same challenges, and one has emotional resilience and the other doesn't. you know it's it's But the good thing is, ah because of neuroplasticity, you can build it easily. you know like so People like Immaculae, she was in that um cupboard in the Rwandan genocide in 1994, I think it was.
00:11:49
Speaker
and They were in there for 91 days. Well, she came out with emotional resilience and she was able to forgive the soldiers who you know killed her family and killed all her friends and you know kept she and the other women in the in the cupboard. Whereas, know you've got people who can overcome huge things, whereas in my apartment block, we've got two lifts and one of them isn't working. well You know, everyone winches and I mean, talk about a first world problem. You know, you just have to wait, what, an extra minute? Yeah, exactly. It's all perspective though as well, do you think? Yeah. How you view things and what you... Absolutely. And that's what the rough and smooth and instead of saying, you're making me angry, you say, I am choosing to be angry. And this is giving you the perspective of someone who's in control. And then that makes all the difference. And knowing that it's not good and bad.
00:12:44
Speaker
You know, you haven't had a bad day, you've had a rough day and you know what, there's a purpose for rough days. That's to build your resilience. yeah Yeah, you can just reframe it. I think that's that's a great sort of way to think about it perhaps. Where can we learn these skills so that we can be sort of, you know, happier, more satisfied, less angry, less responsive in those ways, which are probably highly unhelpful for our for us long-term, so that it becomes habitual. So I think a lot of us, um you know, if you've always, you always react to a certain way, like the road rage example, that's your thing. You get, I'm fine till I get in the car and then someone annoys me, they get in my way, they slow me down and I change. And some people can sort of even have enough awareness to say, that's just how I am. yeah And they don't have that desire perhaps or to see the need
00:13:31
Speaker
to actually, you know, work through that and perhaps do things differently. But obviously they're going to feel, well, they're less likely to have a heart attack, number one, I'm thinking from a health perspective, but also they probably like the world a little bit better every time they got in that car. Absolutely. And it's and and the whole thing is it's not about never losing control, because if you never lose control, how do you learn to regain it? So it's not this perfect world. And basically what it is is you need to learn it. It's not something that to me, you know, there's all sorts of courses and things and you you do it all, but then you're actually not applying it. And it's hard to apply when you are out of control. And it's also understand. So those language changes are really important. And you can do that now. You know, you don't need to go and do a course or anything. Just say, OK, I'm going to substitute good and bad with rough and smooth. And I'm not going to say it's the government's fault. It's my parents fault. It's my children's fault.
00:14:29
Speaker
I'm actually going to say I'm choosing to be really angry because what you did was inappropriate. And that is going to start to create new neural pathways. Now, some people will find it very difficult to do that because they're actually emotionally addicted to anger or feeling worthless. And really, is it so is that someone's desired state though? Like I just questioned that, but it's not their desired state. It's a biochemical reason right because what happens is the the brain will create
00:15:02
Speaker
Say, for example, worthlessness. There's a lot of people who felt worthless all their lives. Well, that chemical then is going around in their blood all the time and the cells see that chemical going by and they go, oh, it's going by all the time. We've only got one receptor for worthlessness. So next time the cell replicates, it doubles and doubles and doubles each time its receptors for that chemical of worthlessness until that cell is addicted to that chemical because that's what it wants. It's what it's got the most receptors for. So when you start to change your life and, oh, I'm going to do this and this, and this makes me feel worthy, I feel good, and this feeling good chemical comes past, and the cells go, hmm.
00:15:47
Speaker
Where's that worthless one? We've got all these receptors for it and it's not coming. And so your body can actually send a signal to your brain to create worthless thoughts. So then they go through and the cells go, whoa, we've got that chemical again. And it's understanding it's not necessarily your willpower if you can't stick to that exercise regime or the you know eating better or going to sleep early. It can be a biochemical addiction to that chemical that you're creating. when you feel like that. Yeah. Wow. That's such a great explanation and obviously something that I have not heard before. So just understanding it, I think is is the first step in this as well. Well, it is. It you know stops you bagging yourself for not having the willpower to continue. Yeah, willpower is such a thing, isn't it? Like people actually like, there's a so much judgment that comes from that willpower narrative as well.
00:16:41
Speaker
Yep, well done. And that's that's what I wanted to get rid of all that judgment and blame and just, you know, take responsibility. And the other thing, you know, doing things that make you feel good. This is really becoming dangerous as well because of the dopamine addiction. Oh, yeah. And these little they little smartphones are not helping because there's so much instant gratification of likes and validation and then people haven't liked it and then you feel bad and, you know, like all this kind of stuff that's happening, which I think it sort of speeds up that really, doesn't it? Because before we didn't have that, you know, it was just like, OK, life's going along, but we're not tethered to a device which is validating or invalidating our every thought idea. Absolutely. put and
00:17:26
Speaker
You know, the danger of this dopamine addiction, because what it does is it actually because dopamine is inhibitory and excitery. And so it gets really excited and it excites the cell next to it and then the neuron next to it and next to it till they're all shaking. And it almost becomes a neurotoxin. And what happens is it it creates a suicidal reaction within those cells. So they kill kill themselves. And so then the brains of all the good news today, aren't you? Absolutely. But then the brain, because you know if you're playing video games, because the things that create the dopamine addiction, you know social media, online shopping, video games, um an excess of sugar, you know drink, exercise, too many carbs, too much caffeine, alcohol, too much sex, any of those things create
00:18:19
Speaker
this um um dopamine addiction till finally, because what the neurons do, instead of having all that dopamine going into their receptors, they take their receptors only down to one, which means that you've got to do much more video games or whatever you're doing to create that dopamine, because you've only got one so one receptor to take it. And then if you keep going, your brain says, OK, that's it. I'm not creating natural dopamine anymore. which means you can only get dopamine, that feel-good chemical when you play a game, you shop, you and this is where we're at now. That's the addiction pace, is it as well? like does that That's really what it leads to, I imagine. Well, this is dopamine addiction, you know, and and everyone's doing it, and you've got young kids who can't just sit
00:19:08
Speaker
They can't go outside and just watch the waves because there's no natural dopamine left. you know Their brains turn that off. You can get it back again. But it's something to be really mindful of what i am I doing to unwind? Am I just going to Instagram? Am I just doing online shopping? you know Am I just playing a video game all the time? And there's there's ways to work out whether you're addicted to those things as well. ah yeah I was with someone the other day and they had their phone. Because they, they said, no, I'm not addicted at all. And it was pinging. And I couldn't help themselves. I said, don't touch it. And they went... It could be urgent. Because if I was saying drive off and road. Yeah. No, I know. I'm really good at turning off notifications. But I've also like, I'm almost, I'm in my late 40s. I haven't grown up with it being a thing. You know what I mean? It's almost a learned behavior for me. So I quite happily
00:20:04
Speaker
I have my phone switched off after 8.30 at night. It's in a different room. I don't have notifications. But my teenage son, he does struggle with that. The best thing ever happens is when he leaves the phone at home. Absolutely. Well, you saw that those teenagers, I don't know if you read about them, they were having a fight at a train station and one of them threw the phone onto the train line. And there was signs everywhere saying, there don't go on the tracks. Well, no, there was going to be a non-stopping train, you know, those... Oh, yeah, yeah, Express, whatever it is. And they both ended up down there. Terrible. Terrible. Because they couldn't see anything else other than, oh, I've got to get... That's my life down there. Yeah.
00:20:46
Speaker
Yeah, so we need to be really mindful of um ah how we are making ourselves feel good. Absolutely. What's your favourite business tool or life skill that you're enjoying at the moment? And we're not obviously going to include the smartphone in this, um especially after our last question. what is it What's it doing for you that's helping you in business or life? I think it's listening. I think that's an incredible skill that very few people do now. And especially if you're a fixer or you happen to be an expert or something, it you it's very easy to jump in and want to want to fix everything and do everything.
00:21:29
Speaker
You know, and it's so it's listening and also knowing when to walk away, especially if you've created something, if you think it can change lives, it's learning that it's actually not your responsibility for them to take responsibility. And so I think it's it's listening for that as well that and not judging it. Absolutely. Yeah, I love that. Your biggest life lesson today and why has it been important to you? Oh wow, that was probably a few months ago. I'd had three really emotionally stressful time family situations, one on top of the other. And then I was teaching a Zoom class and I spoke to my friend afterwards and she rang back and I was fine. She rang back and I said, where are you? She said, Las Vegas, where am I? You're at home? What's this? And she said, that's the book you wrote.
00:22:29
Speaker
Did I write a book? And she said yes. And then I had a suitcase next to me and I said, what's this? And she said, that's your suitcase. Where have I been? Sydney, why was I there? You've got a granddaughter. Do I have a granddaughter? And then I would loop back again and say, um where are you? Where am I? And after I'd been doing this for 20 minutes, she went, um Jane, just sit on the couch. I'm just going to ring your son. Yeah. And he came and um I was still the same. I was totally functional. You know, there was nothing. I was really wired. You know, everything was wonderful. Yeah. Anyway, they took me to um the Alfred. ah He called an ambulance. They came. They took me to the Alfred and
00:23:17
Speaker
10 hours it it was from the beginning to when I suddenly came back and I was in one of those curtain petition things and I said to Sam, wow, what am I doing here? And he said, um and he explained, we're not sure what's happened. And I have absolutely no recollection of those 10 hours. um there And it's a TGA, it's a transient global amnesia. Which is usually caused by an accident, a car accident, you know, how some people can't remember. Well, mine, there was nothing. So this is a really rare case. Of course, I'd choose that. and um I mean, it's making for a very deep answer to my question, but I'm sure it was something you didn't expect to have to go through.
00:24:07
Speaker
Absolutely not, especially when you're someone who you know is always ah doing everything and coping and that sort of thing. Well, it's it's a really good lesson to think, wow, the body Basically, what my body did is the brain was just, the computer was going too much, it shut down and 10 hours later it rebooted and with absolutely no repercussions. I was going to say, what ended up happening where you just discharged from hospital and life went on or did you have to do things differently? Yeah, they kept me overnight and the next morning the neurosurgeon
00:24:47
Speaker
along with about 20 interns, because I was so weird. You're a great case study. Absolutely. And yeah, I haven't had any repercussions are, Jane, you're actually vulnerable and you're human. And I think it was that vulnerability that I needed to to learn that we're not more, you know, we are mortal. You're not infallible. um And sometimes um Yeah, people need to fix things themselves. Yeah, you can't control it all, right? It just happens. Yeah. So that that has been a huge lesson and, you know, releasing this book, it's it will go where it's meant to go. You know, I'm not invested in the outcome. Yeah, absolutely. So how do you define your version of success, particularly given the fact you've gone through, I guess, a ah number of changes, it sounds like, and um you are where you are now?
00:25:41
Speaker
I think the biggest thing is being authentic. You know, it sounds. It can be a buzzword. Yeah, definitely. Exactly. But it's probably one of the hardest things to do, really practice what you preach. And I think having a passion and always believing that, you know, with that passion that that you're on the right track and any obstacles you hit, they're not a reflection on you. And you don't judge the people who don't want to take responsibility. because it's their responsibility to change their mindset. So I think it's having that objectivity and no judgment. Yeah, absolutely. Just a final message for us as we wrap up our conversation on the politics of emotional resilience. What is it? Do you think that, you know, you'd like people just to kind of walk away going, OK, this is what I need to either think, feel or do as a result of listening to our conversation today?
00:26:33
Speaker
Okay, I think don't be so hard on yourself. Know that things are rough and smooth, not good and bad. And that you know and take responsibility by not blaming, but you know choosing to feel a certain way. and you know Basically, it's not the road that you're on that matters, but whether or not you're in control. Yeah, my steering wheel. Excellent. Well, I've really enjoyed our conversation today. And of course, if you do want to connect further with Jane, there are details on the show notes, including her website. It's been a great conversation, a very, a very deep and long one in some ways, but I've really enjoyed it and hopefully you all have too. Until next time, do take care. Thanks so much for listening today.
00:27:14
Speaker
If you've enjoyed the politics of everything, I thrive on your feedback, so please add a short review and share the podcast with your network through Apple, Spotify and all the usual suspects. I'm always on the hunt for new and diverse guests, so if you or someone you know has a fresh idea, you're busting to get out there, please email me at amber at amberdains.com and my crew will get back to you very soon.