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Psychedelics and Christianity with Seth Conner | Ep #32
61 Plays4 years ago
We have been taught to fear what we don't understand and that truth can easily be found when you start talking about psychedelics. It's much harder to pause your default reaction to a topic, stop and listen to someone who may offer a different point of view, and possibly expand your understanding of this amazing life we get to live.
Offense is an easy way to find where religion has gotten in the way of your connection to God. Keep that in mind for today's episode and do your best to listen before jumping to conclusions.
Today's Guest:
A former Marine who served in combat operations in Fallujah, Iraq during 2004; Seth now operates in the civilian sector as a serial entrepreneur in the digital marketing space. As a Christian with a drive to become better in all areas of his life and a passion for truth - while reconciling the inconsistencies between religion, science, history, and philosophy - Seth happened upon Psychedelics as a key that began to unlock the connectedness of the aforementioned fields of interest. At the same time, it provided depth in healing, spiritual awakening, expanded consciousness, and more importantly - a deeper love for self and others.
• Company - www.socialbrandsyndicate.com
• BioTech Wellness (FB) - https://www.facebook.com/BioTechWellness
• BioTech Wellness - www.sethconner.com
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Transcript
Reimagining Masculinity
00:00:00
Speaker
Men, we are not simple, chest-thumping, rock-smashing, fire-starting barbarians. We have depth. We intensely feel. We are scared, yet brave. We love to have fun. We're imperfect and make mistakes. We're compassionate and loving. We are multifaceted. Let's explore the reality of masculinity together.
The Impact of Psychedelics on Masculinity
00:00:29
Speaker
When I started multifaceted masculinity, I wanted it to be multifaceted in the sense of broader than just our perception, our current perception of what masculinity encompasses. And today's topic is that is broad. It is outside of a lot of people's comfort zone or norm. And that is we're talking about the clinical, emotional and spiritual side of psychedelics.
00:00:55
Speaker
We're not talking about the recreational side, you know, those that use psychedelics to kind of escape or run away from their life. We're talking about it specific to how does it or can it impact in a positive way your personal growth, your self development, your relationship with God? Can that fit in as part of your process?
Curiosity and Personal Responsibility
00:01:23
Speaker
Now, I would encourage you to not get offended and let offense get in the way of either education or potentially even becoming liberated in certain ways if you've been curious about this topic, but maybe too afraid to lean into it or explore it. Just leave offense at the door and listen to the entire conversation before you pass judgment or react in any way.
00:01:49
Speaker
And I would really encourage you to kind of take it the way that I take a lot of topics nowadays, which is to be curious instead of offended, to be curious instead of coming to snap judgments or reactions that are really just default hardwired responses that you've grown accustomed to.
00:02:08
Speaker
And lastly, a little word of caution as well as a disclaimer. The disclaimer is I am personally at a place of asking a lot of questions. And I mean a lot of them. That is broader than today's topic, but it includes today's topic. And so I approached this conversation really with what I recommended you do, which is with curiosity.
00:02:34
Speaker
And from that place of curiosity, we had the conversation we had and more than likely we're gonna have more of them. Now the word of caution is some of the things that we talked about or were said, they were more of a generalization than maybe a hard rule or a fact. And neither one of us are doctors, neither one of us are researchers that have dedicated our lives to
00:03:04
Speaker
psychedelics. And so it's up to you to take personal responsibility and do your own research. If this is something that has sparked curiosity in you, don't just take what you heard in this podcast as fact or as truth. Dig into it. Begin to research it for yourself. Find out what is true or isn't true and become even more curious. Let that passion kind of
00:03:31
Speaker
grow as you lean into the research side of things before you try diving into anything, or hopefully you are wise enough to not take any one man's word as an ultimate truth or gospel.
Psychedelics and Christianity
00:03:46
Speaker
So that's what I would just ask you to do is listen to it all the way through with curiosity. And if that curiosity grows by the end of the conversation,
00:03:56
Speaker
then dive into research and let your curiosity take you to a deeper understanding and place when it comes to psychedelics.
00:04:03
Speaker
And we're gonna be talking about this in further episodes. So make sure that you subscribe. And if you found any of these episodes beneficial, I ask that you leave a review. I am so encouraged by them. And quite frankly, they help the algorithms when it comes to bumping my podcast's exposure. And ultimately what that does is helps the conversation around masculinity grow, which is my heart. All right, let's go ahead and dive into psychedelics and Christianity.
00:04:46
Speaker
So today is what I would consider a special day. I think if you've listened to any of my episodes that have guests, I've told you from the beginning that I want to bring in people that I have relationship with, I have history with, that I really admire or respect or look up to for a variety of reasons. And specifically in the vein of just becoming a man, whatever that looks like for us specifically or individually and
00:05:16
Speaker
Today's guest is fits that criteria. Uh, we go back probably about seven or eight years and there was a gap where we didn't talk too much, not because of anything relationally, but just life. And you know how that goes. Uh, but now what has brought us back together is a topic that I feel is really important to be honest with, to be clear with, and really to take the mystery out of. And that is the realm
Guest's Journey from Faith to Psychedelics
00:05:43
Speaker
of psychedelics. Now.
00:05:45
Speaker
My only word of caution is before you skip on or go to the next episode that you just lay aside any preconceived notion of what you think psychedelics are, as well as if you feel offended right now or feeling aversion to it.
00:06:02
Speaker
I ask you to just stick around for the next 10 or 15 minutes. If after that you still feel the same way, then great move on. Not everything is for everyone, but I did want to at least challenge you and encourage you to not just respond in your reaction. So without further ado, um, Beth Connor, Beth is one of my friends and he is now part of the multifaceted masculinity community. How's it going, Seth?
00:06:33
Speaker
Hey man, how you doing? Yeah, absolutely. I think, I think it's important for the listeners specifically because of the topic and how touchy it can be to at least start with a little bit of a foundation for
00:06:50
Speaker
who you are and why are, why are you, why are you and I specifically talking about this topic? Like how did you arrive to where you are? Not that you have arrived in life, but how did you arrive to the point where we're having this conversation?
00:07:05
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. You know, knowing your your listener base, it's probably a lot of folks that I could sit down with and have a cup of coffee with and get along with really well. I grew up in the Baptist Church, right, which
00:07:23
Speaker
you know, could have its own interpretation of what that looks like. But but after but I kind of rebelled against that at an early age in high school, joined the Marine Corps. I think you and I were serving together at the same time, obviously didn't know each other at the time. And then towards the end, went to went to Iraq, deployed to Japan. And then once I was getting out, I started to find my faith again.
00:07:47
Speaker
Like before then, it was always just a struggle. It was kind of like my parents' faith wasn't really mine. I started to take ownership of it. It kind of led me more into the charismatic route. And that was freedom for me. And so I was like, wow, this is a breath of fresh air. And these charismatic things or supernatural things are just refreshing. And so
00:08:10
Speaker
that had its own journey, eventually found myself at a church in Northern California, which is where you and I eventually met. Yeah. But you know, it's this constant like struggle, this process of I'm just not getting the breakthroughs in my life that I've been asking for, I've been seeking for now every, every, you know,
00:08:33
Speaker
I guess every challenge or every seeking opportunity has its own stepping stone and so it has brought me to the place that I'm at now which I'm thankful for but it comes with its own frustration right you have the frustration of just sitting in the
00:08:48
Speaker
The same place and not moving very much for the rest of your life. We have the frustration of growth and, you know, continually moving forward and higher. And so, um, I actually want to pause you right there. I think that's a great point is you're saying the frustration of one of the two, um, for a lot of people, I think a lot of, especially as guys, we're not okay with tension and we're not okay with sitting in that tension or letting that tension.
00:09:15
Speaker
be something that moves us forward and oftentimes makes us feel trapped. Can you just really quickly expound on how you were able to make that switch from it being kind of a frustration to being a catalyst for you? Yeah, man, that's a great question because I'm trying to remember exactly where the switch was. I guess it came from the fact that I'm in this community of people, I'm going to church,
00:09:45
Speaker
And I see people encountering God in this magical way, this mystical way. I read so much literature about the mystics from the past, people moving in supernatural gifts. And I'm like, why am I not experiencing that? Is there something wrong with me? So then you start the shame cycle, right? I'm not as favored. I'm broken. That crap, that is not true.
00:10:14
Speaker
And you kind of get to a point where you just kind of throw your hands up and say, Listen, I trust you, God, Jesus, Holy Spirit, I trust you when you say that you're not going to ever let me go. Like, you're not threatened by
00:10:34
Speaker
who I want to be or the the messes that I make or the things that I want to accomplish. You're not threatened if I step away for a season, whatever. And there comes so much freedom to just trust that you're never going to be let go, but you can go and explore. And that means like, hey, I got to push into things that are kind of crack open my mind. I think
00:10:56
Speaker
You know, I think I heard someone say a while back that you have to allow yourself to be offended. You have to allow your mind to be offended so that it can kind of break open that box, whether it's a God box or a self box or a church box, break that thing open so that you can push into the greater and push into the more. And so, yeah, man, I hate seeing people get locked into that.
00:11:23
Speaker
you know, the should game. I should be doing this more. I should be reading the Bible more, praying more, this, that, and the other thing more. And all those rules and regulations that we impose on ourselves are just there to drag us down and allow us to shame ourselves over and over again. So yeah, it's ugly. Yeah. Yeah. So how did you, and I couldn't agree more. I think we were just talking last week about the shoulds.
00:11:47
Speaker
which could probably be a podcast in and of itself but um in the vein of what we're talking about today how Where did psychedelics or just kind of that that topic Uh show up in your process and and where kind of where are you right now in that vein? Yeah. Yeah, that's great. So, um So when I started seeing those things
00:12:12
Speaker
around me in the church community and just feeling like there's got to be more. Why am I not experiencing more? Um, I began to just kind of push into, you know, different things, different philosophies. I never really got into the Eastern philosophies necessarily, but just like would observe them from a distance. And, um, it was always about, you know,
00:12:37
Speaker
How can I always about keeping the edge, especially when it comes to business or just my personal development? So when you get into, like, say biohacking with with fasting or intermittent fasting or, you know, ice baths or, you know, whatever it might be. It was always something to take me just a little bit further in my journey. OK.
Understanding Psychedelics
00:12:58
Speaker
So about two years ago. I started to allow myself into certain things
00:13:05
Speaker
But while always kind of looking back at Jesus, he was my archetype at the time, looking back at Jesus and going, hey, is this okay? Can I do this? And he is a God of red lights, not green lights. So he's gonna have a constant green light until he gives me the red light. And so I always had green lights from him.
00:13:28
Speaker
And so it moved into yoga, which has been more accepted by the church in the last 10, 20 years. Meditation as opposed to praying, which makes sense because praying is just one way monologue. For the most part, meditation is more of a receiving, which is what I wanted. But it began to push me to more mystical things, which is where I kind of landed with psychedelics.
00:13:55
Speaker
So the brief 30-second history of that is I grew up in a law enforcement household.
00:14:03
Speaker
At fifth and sixth grade, I was like, number one, dare participant. Like I got the gold medal for the best dare poster, you know, kids off drugs thing. And now that didn't in my rebellious years in high school, that wasn't always the case. But, you know, that's the household I grew up in. And so there was a certain programming there that, yeah, all these things are bad for you.
00:14:29
Speaker
So I was talking to a friend, reconnected with a friend from high school about, uh, a few years ago, we'd lost touch with each other for awhile and we started talking and he had started to mention these experiences that he had with LSD. Okay. And I was like, whoa.
00:14:48
Speaker
Whoa, dude, like that's that's heavy, man. What are you talking about? You know, and instead of being turned off and separating myself from him, I was just I just let him talk and I would just open up to the idea. Now, it wasn't something for me at the time, but I listened. I I didn't judge. I was open to hearing what he had to say. And.
00:15:14
Speaker
That was the beginning of me considering something, considering reprogramming what I've always thought to be the case about psychedelics. Okay. So that's kind of the beginning of where I'm at now. Got it. Okay. So I think specifically within what you said, it's important to clarify, cause I know that we've had these conversations off air, but generally speaking, I think you hit the nail on the head in a sense of.
00:15:44
Speaker
being in the traditional Baptist, their superhero child with a poster, the epitome of the messaging of just drugs in general are really negative and bad, but psychedelics, I mean, that's where people lose it or whatever it may be. That's the extremes, right?
00:16:06
Speaker
So I think it's important to clarify for the rest of our conversation. Just generally speaking, when you're saying, or what I'm saying, when we're saying psychedelics, what exactly are we referring to or are you referring to beyond? I mean, you mentioned your friend with LSD, but it's.
00:16:25
Speaker
psychedelics are so much broader than just our stereotype of what they are. So what exactly is a psychedelic to just make it really simple? Yeah, to make it really simple. A psychedelic is a we'll just say we'll call it a compound that you ingest. Somehow you get it into your body that will cause the participant to occasion
00:16:53
Speaker
mystical experience. So that might be...
00:16:57
Speaker
Um, you know, mood change, it could be perceptual change. So you hear about the hippie movement in the sixties and it's all kind of, you know, um, stereotypical grateful dead, you know, um, kaleidoscope images and things like that, which, which happened there, they came from something. And so, um, that as well as in intense feelings of love.
00:17:25
Speaker
tapping into this universal element of love like you never have before. OK, so. And that is that's a psychedelic basically. Yeah. How are those different than whatever it may be? Meth, cocaine, alcohol, nicotine. Like there's the word drugs. It covers so many things. Some are illegal. There's quite a few things that are legal that are horrible for you as well.
00:17:51
Speaker
But what what kind of differentiates a not in a sense of Escaping or checking out or running from but in the vein of a better understanding of yourself or of God or others Using psychedelics. How is that different than? The other things that we would kind of categorize as a drug Man you're gonna get me on a soapbox with that question So what we're here for
00:18:21
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's a really good place for people to start to because you have to begin to start removing the stigmas that you have with these kind of things to be able to open yourself up to it. Yeah. My first eye opener was when I realized that psychedelics should not be on the controlled substances act, which they were just lumped in there with all of the main drugs back in the 60s. It was it was a movement by Nixon.
00:18:50
Speaker
um to remove just to kind of put it in there because You have this hippie movement of kids that are all about making love not war and that's not just like having sex it's making it's having this love for humanity as opposed to making war and he's thinking I cannot have a generation of individuals who won't go to war like I need a military
00:19:17
Speaker
We need that military industrial complex to be able to go fight wars and all these kids are loving each other. So because it did have an altered state of consciousness, it was easy for them to put that on the controlled substance act. Now, does it belong there? Absolutely not. Just like marijuana absolutely should not be on it. Um, the reason is good.
00:19:40
Speaker
I think you're just about to answer it, which is why not? Yeah. You're saying that it's not, but why not? Yeah. Probably the one greatest indicator is that it's non-addictive. These substances are non-addictive. There's nothing about the chemical or the compound that is addictive. Now, people could argue and say they are addictive. What they're referring to is the experience. People can become addicted to the experience.
00:20:07
Speaker
but then themselves, your body does not become addicted to the compound like you do with cocaine, heroin, opiates, you know, barbiturates, even alcohol.
Safe and Responsible Use of Psychedelics
00:20:18
Speaker
And so I mean, you think about it. I mean, statistically,
00:20:23
Speaker
alcohol should be on that Controlled Substances Act. Why? Because there is astronomical death and disease, both by the person that's ingesting it and killing themselves, but also drinking and driving kills people. It's a weapon as well as just a disease that alcohol causes. So I don't understand how that can be on the Controlled Substance Act.
00:20:50
Speaker
But the psychedelics, which if taken the right way, which we should get into, can occasion, it can heal trauma. It is always about bringing the user, the participant back into a place of self-love, which if everybody took the initiative to love themselves more, we'd have a lot less problems in this world. So it's not addictive.
00:21:18
Speaker
It is most of the most of the compounds come from The earth, you know, there's lsd which is synthetic which is one of the very first psychedelics to be explored and tested by the western society but you've got plant medicine like mushrooms psilocybin mushrooms and ayahuasca and peyote and aboga down in africa
00:21:45
Speaker
which have been around for thousands, you know, thousands and thousands and thousands of years that have been used to heal people's whole body, mind, body, spirit. And so, you know, we've lost a lot of that. But that is I hope that answered the question. Did that did answer the question? Yeah, no, it did. I think before we go on, just let's what do you mean by taking them responsibly or responsibly? Yeah.
00:22:14
Speaker
This is this is what I preach all the time because now we're talking about folks that take Any drug the psychedelics in a recreational way so
00:22:26
Speaker
And the other thing is, and I'll just get back to really quickly what separates psychedelics from the other drugs. The other drugs beat up your body. They kill parts of your body. Cocaine is a lot of times cut with other substances. And obviously heroin, we know, is just all these really dirty drugs that hurt the body. Not only that, people take them to run away, to avoid, to escape their problems.
00:22:56
Speaker
Okay, that is the reason alcohol same thing people take these substances to run away and to avoid their problems. Whereas with psychedelics, it is impossible to avoid your the issues. The whole goal of the psychedelic is to bring you face to face with your issues, remove the fight or flight mechanism that we all tend to have with our issues. That's what keeps us running from them.
00:23:21
Speaker
and allow us to observe those issues, those problems, whether it's addiction, relationship problems, problems with money, whatever it might be, spiritual problems, how do I not encounter God better? It allows us to strip away the ego and that fight or flight that keeps us from looking at our problems.
00:23:41
Speaker
Observe the problem and have answers for it to come out of the experience going. I know how to handle this problem I know how to stop avoiding it. I know how to get healed. I know how to move past the trauma That's keeping me from in these cycles, you know behavioral cycles in relationships with work, whatever it might be so so real quick there, um
00:24:04
Speaker
I think that's the positive side of it. Maybe just to push back or to hear a little bit of the other side of it. Cause you said that it's not bad for the body or the other ones are bad for the body, right?
00:24:17
Speaker
What about one of the most common reactions to psychedelics, which is the bad trip? Yeah, they took it. They lost their mind. They're never the same. They open themselves up to demons. They like that whole realm of the bad side. I understand that the psychedelic can have the intention of moving people closer to what you described. But what about the other side of it?
00:24:43
Speaker
Yeah, so good. So, um, the bad trip is what scared people straight, right? It is what gave the dare program. It's what gave Nixon the leverage that he needed to enact the controlled substance act and put psychedelics on it. It is fear. It's fear driven, right? The bad trip. People have a bad trip and the notorious story is that they
00:25:10
Speaker
uh, or narrative back in the sixties was they had a bad trip and they jumped out a window, right? And they killed themselves. Um, the bad trip really comes down to how responsible people are with taking the substances. So do you drink alcohol and then go drive? No, not good. Right. Um, you,
00:25:36
Speaker
The goal behind psychedelics is to be in a safe place to address your issues. So set and setting is what you will hear preached and should be preached with any conversation in psychedelics ever. Set and setting. So what that's referring to is mindset.
00:25:55
Speaker
Okay, that's the set mindset and then the setting the place that you're actually having the experience is the environment conducive to that are you gonna have interruptions or people gonna be coming in or you have pets that might interrupt, you know, are you Expecting a phone call things like that. You want your environment to be conducive to
00:26:16
Speaker
six hours of just you being with you or another person and not having any interruptions. The bad trip comes with the mindset too. That's why you've got people that take recreational drugs or take the psychedelics recreationally and they might have a bad trip is because they're just kind of just trying to get high, right? They're just trying to have an experience or trying to disassociate from this reality for a moment
00:26:44
Speaker
But they're not in the right mindset. And so they have a bad trip. So where I come from is everything, every psychedelic should be taken in a ceremoniously, ceremoniously, ceremoniously way, whether you're by yourself or whether you go.
00:26:59
Speaker
on a ayahuasca retreat, or a mushroom retreat, or peyote retreat, you know, you think about the Native Americans, they had those, you know, they do the peyote and the sweat lodges and everything was ceremonious. Okay, our, our ancestors always did things ceremoniously and they did that because
00:27:18
Speaker
They believe that there is spirit that lives in each one of these substances and you disrespect or you dishonor the spirits when you take them inappropriately. You just take them flippantly. You're just trying to avoid as opposed to taking them to heal you.
00:27:34
Speaker
to strengthen you, to move past trauma.
Microdosing vs. Full Experiences
00:27:40
Speaker
You're essentially looking at the substance and saying, I need your help. Thank you for being here. Thank you for helping me. And it responds in that same manner where it says, I will help you. Here you go. And when that's in place,
00:27:54
Speaker
There's usually never, ever a bad trip. People will have challenges. Don't get me wrong. It's work. It's, it's, you're going into it, not to get high into disassociate. You're going in to do some deep work to find that healing where some people occasion it to, Hey, in six hours, I got 20 years worth of therapy. Yeah. Yeah. There's a reason for that. So that's the ceremony and kind of the allocated time. And I think that those are all really valid and good points.
00:28:22
Speaker
not to go on a complete rabbit trailer tangent, but what about micro dosing in the sense of incorporating, for some people, this is what I've heard, is that they incorporate small amounts just as a means of managing depression or managing anxiety or whatever it may be.
00:28:43
Speaker
I guess the question is what's the differentiation between that and what you've said in the sense of the setting being really important, not having the phone call versus the micro dosing approach to things. Not that it has to be one or the other, but incorporating the micro dosing side of things where they are, are kind of doing life in a sense, not necessarily even high or feeling it, but just using psychedelics as a means to improve their overall wellbeing.
00:29:12
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, that's a great question. And I'm going to try to take my energy down a little bit because you got me all excited talking about those things. I'm like, all right, Seth, gauge it a little bit. All right.
00:29:26
Speaker
So I personally, I micro dose and micro dosing started out well became popular in Silicon Valley by all of your computer programmers, people that were very much into tech and art and innovation. And, you know, you hear about Steve Jobs, who dropped
00:29:49
Speaker
LSD acid handful times and and came into this great revelation, which is essentially where Apple came from LSD
00:30:01
Speaker
And I'll just, I'll circle back around here. You know, LSD was something that Albert Hoffman stumbled upon. Um, I believe he was in Switzerland, stumbled upon back in like the forties. I believe he was trying to create a compound for high blood pressure. I believe stumbled across this compound that he had created, came in contact with it and had this crazy trip.
00:30:24
Speaker
And he didn't know what was happening. He thought he was dying. He jumped on his bicycle, drove home, rode home, laid there on his bed, and had this experience that he had no grid for.
00:30:36
Speaker
And so he likened it to dying and being born again, going into the dark night of the soul dying and being born again, which is interesting because it has some parallels to Scripture. But the long story made short is that in these studies, the whole goal was that they thought it would
00:30:56
Speaker
be useful in psychiatric treatment to treat people with mental illness. So for a couple of decades, they were doing all this research. They're giving LSD away to all of these therapists who promised that they could, you know, if they administered it to their patients and kept really good records, they could have this compound for free. Oh, wow. Right. Now, during that time, you also get into like the CIA who got a hold of it and started using it for MK ultra and, you know, mind control and, you know, things like that, which if you don't know anything about that, you should look that up.
00:31:26
Speaker
but it began to be used in the wrong way in a very sinister kind of way and then when the Hack saw came down to to eliminate the use of psychedelics all that research had to go out the window But and that was in the 60s and into about 73, but it was in the 70s when you had these Renaissance people these pioneers who said
00:31:51
Speaker
That just they knew the the beauty of it. They knew the benefits of it. And they said we've got to continue our research. We've got to continue to explore this LSD thing and what it can mean to the world. And so instead of administering it to people like guinea pigs, they would take it themselves and share it with other people. And they would come up, you know, they would create the set and the setting. But what they found was that, you know, eventually Silicon Valley
00:32:18
Speaker
began to use it in kind of like a, do you know they had like days like micro dosing Friday or something like that to where on Fridays they would all micro dose or take some sort of trip and evoke some creativity. That's another big part is that there's creativity that just explodes out of this place where people might have been stuck previously.
00:32:40
Speaker
So that's where the microdosing kind of originated and has had a lot of research since then. But the goal is not to be tripping, right? You take the small amount that gets all the synapses and the neurons in your brain firing in incredible ways like you can't normally. And so it allows for creativity, allows for problem solving, it allows for you to step outside and rethink stuff, but you're not experiencing this high.
00:33:05
Speaker
You're not experiencing the facts where you can't function. And so that's why Silicon Valley is using it. I mean, that's why you've got so much innovation in technology nowadays is because they are all encouraged to micro dose. And so it's for some people and not for others, but there's a difference between micro dosing.
00:33:22
Speaker
in that way and then actually having these really intense, amazing trips that might last six plus hours where you're doing some deep work inside yourself and with your with angels or spirit guides or whatever you subscribe to. That's that's what you're encountering. So got it. So so maybe a way of saying it is that a lot of times micro dosing is used as a means of
00:33:50
Speaker
Uh, enhancing your life in one form or another, whether that's creativity or the different veins that it affects versus, um, and, and I would see that, I mean, I don't or haven't micro dose, so I'm flying blind on this, but, um,
00:34:07
Speaker
See it as almost like a multivitamin or a daily vitamin or a periodic, you know, something that you do to alter your state. I mean, if some could even argue caffeine or energy drinks, not as not opening up the creativity, but in the sense of taking something ingesting it to alter your state to produce more.
Spiritual Growth through Psychedelics
00:34:27
Speaker
Right. Yeah. But to do it in with something that specifically unlocks or opens up creativity, I think is really interesting.
00:34:35
Speaker
And then the other side of it that kind of the ceremonial side is
00:34:38
Speaker
more of kind of the the therapy the healing the the pursuit of god or of self-love discovery all of that is that fair to say yeah i appreciate you bringing it around too because that's a good way of putting it the microdosing kind of is affecting this the i guess the scientific level right how our brain works neurochemistry things like that to help us just like taking a multivitamin like you said what what would i take
00:35:06
Speaker
to help increase the firing in my brain or to shut off some of those things that cause depression or cause anxiety or you know things like that how do we shut that off so that i can be more productive over here you know whether it's uh attention deficit disorder you know how do i shut those parts of my brain off that aren't serving me really well right now so that i can be
00:35:25
Speaker
I can get better over here. And then as you do that, you begin to create those paths and create a deeper rut in those paths as my brain takes that route. Whereas when you take the greater doses of psychedelics, your goal is essentially to have a mystical experience, is to have a religious or mystical spiritual experience. So you've got one and then you've got the other, for sure.
00:35:54
Speaker
Yeah, that makes sense. So on the on the mystical spiritual side of things, I know that it's different for everyone and it depends on kind of what they're looking to gain out of it or really what the psychedelic experience can invoke for them. But kind of generally speaking, what what are
00:36:17
Speaker
some of the potential spiritual implications, we'll call them, of pursuing or becoming curious or even trying the psychedelics as a means of accessing that versus shying away from that or kind of dismissing it. Is there anything that people
00:36:37
Speaker
potentially are either missing out on or can gain by being willing to lay down their perception and or their religion to become open to trying to access a deeper understanding of God of themselves through psychedelics. Yeah.
00:36:54
Speaker
You know, I'm struggling to think of where to start with that because, you know, you have to come to a place where you recognize you're in an echo chamber and you are constantly feeding yourself a narrative, whether it came from church or your parents or society, and begin to question things. You know, be open to things that might be offensive. Like if you have been feeling offensive listening to me talk,
00:37:24
Speaker
Like pay attention to that. That's a good thing because that is something that you should begin to just question. You don't have to, you know, get on one side or the other, but just question it and begin to explore. Now, like, you know, as in why am I offended? That kind of a question. Yeah, exactly. Why am I feeling offended by this? Yeah. Right. Um, I mean, I can remember back when people would say they could see angels or they could see into the spirit realm and I'd be like, man,
00:37:52
Speaker
that's offensive to me but I love that because it's exciting and my spirit gets excited and it wants to know more. So be excited about those things and whenever you feel fear or you feel scared of being deceived or scared of you know just being guilty or you know things like that, pay attention that that isn't. If you believe
00:38:19
Speaker
what you believe Jesus says in the Bible, you would believe that there's liberty, there's freedom, and there's no fear and love. So whenever you feel those things, that's not really him, right? But he might be like, hey, you're not ready for this. Here's the red light. But as for what people might expect, it's going to be different for everybody. And here's what I've discovered is that
00:38:46
Speaker
When it comes to like, for me, I could walk around the church and I'd be like, man, why am I not experiencing what they're experiencing? I want to experience you so much, God.
00:38:56
Speaker
Why not? And what I've come to discover is that everybody's different. Everybody's going to encounter him differently. It's not a cookie cutter relationship from one person to the next. So some people, like myself, need the aid of psychedelics to move me in that direction. And so everybody's experience is going to be different. But what you bring to that experience is what most likely will manifest. So when you come into it,
00:39:23
Speaker
thinking you're going to be you know demonized or you're going to encounter demons or you know all those scary things that are projected from the religious views of those that you've listened to which honestly are just them trying to explain something they don't know like that's one thing that so what i noticed is that i i took on a lot of
00:39:49
Speaker
truth from the church, uh, from pastors in the past that I said, man, this is truth, right? Like must be, I'm giving them authority to speak over my life. And so I take it as truth and then I discover, well, that's maybe not exactly true. And you do that. You have that happen to you enough times you begin to realize that
00:40:11
Speaker
you know, what is truth? I'm going to have to do my own investigation, my own search, because what they're saying I can't really rely on. So what I found is that these people that are speaking from the pulpit, as amazing as they might be, a lot of times don't really have answers. They're either regurgitating what they've heard from people that have spoken into their life in the past or they're reading scripture and interpreting it
00:40:40
Speaker
in a way that's like through their lens. They're interpreting the Scripture, which best fits their agenda or their understanding. But a lot of times, we have this human innate desire to just have things explained. We're not okay with open-ended questions. We're not okay with not understanding Scripture, right? And so we fill that gap with something, whether it's true or not, okay? So I've got to begin to dissect and reprogram and be like,
00:41:09
Speaker
I'm okay with not knowing that right now. I'm okay with not knowing that. So when you go into an experience and people have told you, you know, stay away from that. That stuff's wicked. It's evil. It opens you up to, you know, wicked spirits and wicked demons and you're going to be deceived and you're going to blah, blah, blah, blah.
00:41:25
Speaker
It's it's not the case. It's simply not the case. And if you believe what the Bible says That you will kill you'll never fall out of his hands, right? You've got to be more confident in his ability to keep you than The devil or satan's ability to deceive you. Yeah, and you have to trust yourself, right? You're gonna have people saying hey Don't do that. It's wicked. It's evil. But inside you're going
00:41:48
Speaker
I feel like this is what I'm supposed to do. I feel like this is good. I just I need to give it a chance. That's your spirit speaking to you. That's your intuition saying, no, you need this. This is the answer. It's going to help heal you. Now, it's not that arrival answer. You're not going to arrive. But it's the beginning of it's beginning of answers being revealed to you. It's beginning of the hard work that says, hey, we can get through all everything you've been trying to do for the last 20 years.
00:42:19
Speaker
Let's start doing it in a much shorter amount of time because I'm going to give you clues, insight and understanding into who you are, into what is really spiritual truth, what is really, you know, those kinds of things. So it sounds like we're tipping on the conversation of deconstruction, which is probably like a 12 part series in and of itself. So
00:42:41
Speaker
It's just because of the implication of what you're saying in the sense of beginning to think for yourself, beginning to explore for yourself, beginning to trust yourself. All of those things, I think that they're necessary as part of the conversation around psychedelics, but it is so much broader than just the one topic. Really strikes at the core of an individual and their own journey and their own process.
00:43:08
Speaker
Um, staying kind of in that vein is why do you think that specifically psychedelics, um, has such a stereotype or a stigma? Let's just stick with, within the church. Like there's, I think that in general, there is a lot of misperception and misunderstanding just in general, as far as the topic itself.
00:43:34
Speaker
But at least in my own life, just recently, as I've even brought it up and posed it as a question, is there something in the vein of psychedelics that maybe I have dismissed or I have not explored? My friends who I know love me, who I know are good-hearted people who love God, there's almost either a repulsion or an aversion to even having the conversation
00:44:04
Speaker
let alone being willing to be open to exploring, and I'm not necessarily saying taking psychedelics for them, but just exploring it in general, I have found that those that are within the church as well-intended as they are, it seems like that topic, it's almost like porn, oh, you struggle with porn and you're a guy, okay, it's in my taboo, but we've talked about it, we've got groups for it, we've got all this, there's things around that.
00:44:31
Speaker
What if you talk psychedelics? Oh, you mean you're sacrificing a baby to Satan? Like, I can't talk to you about that. Those are extremes. But why do you think there's such a reaction to it within the church? Well,
00:44:50
Speaker
I think one thing that people can lean into is the fact that porn is legal. It's easily accessible. It's affordable. It's free. Yeah. And it is something that
Challenging Stigma and Conventional Views
00:45:09
Speaker
As much as we've tried to understand why men struggle with it, nobody has an effing clue, right? Like we know it has to do with the relationship, intimacy stuff, and that's scratching the surface. But could it potentially come down to trauma that led us to this answer? Or could it be simply a means of medicating my self-hatred?
00:45:37
Speaker
So whatever it might be Binging on Netflix porn eating shopping masturbation, you know any kind of sexual caboos
00:45:50
Speaker
Whatever it could be, those are all forms of medication, right? But we've a lot, we've tolerated them. We said, well, you know, binging on Netflix isn't as bad as binging on porn. So, you know, let's just try to change our behavior and become better. No, you never address the underlying cause, right? So when this
00:46:10
Speaker
this ancient medicine shows up and says I can help heal those deep-rooted issues then
00:46:21
Speaker
We're like, we're like, whoa, but wait, I thought, I thought God was my healer. He's going to heal me. Jesus is going to heal me. He says it all in his Bible. So I'm sitting around waiting for a healing to heal my heart and to remove the trauma. And I'm just, and it goes back to that story of like the guy drowning in the ocean and he prays, God save me, save me. And the ship comes by and says,
00:46:45
Speaker
Here, I'll throw you a life raft or whatever. And he's like, no, I'm waiting for God to heal me or save me. Go away. And then another ship. And then he dies and goes to heaven. He's like, why didn't you save me? I sent three ships. What the heck's wrong with you?
00:46:59
Speaker
I love that visual of Peter wanting to curse at him and saying, you're a freaking idiot. But the thing is that if all life was created, if everything that was created is in him and from him and with him, then these medicinal things that he's given us, whether it's cannabis or mushrooms or ayahuasca,
00:47:23
Speaker
These are our life rafts and we shouldn't be afraid of incorporating these ancient Substances to help us to heal us. Why are we sitting around? playing the victim and Saying oh if he loves me he'll heal me or I believe he loves me so he's gonna heal me at some point No, he's given you you're a co-creator. He's given you the means to heal yourself and
00:47:47
Speaker
You, but, but it's not always going to look like, Oh, I'm going to lay hands on and you're healed. No, he's given us.
00:47:55
Speaker
Life incredible life throughout this whole earth this whole planet to heal ourselves But we're we're so Western society focused that we don't look at you know Native American or Amazonian tribes or African tribes who have been practicing this for millenniums and You know heal that's their they don't have Western medicine, but they've been able to heal themselves and in miraculous ways and so again it when it comes to the church, it's like
00:48:21
Speaker
It's just more programming. And if that is the one thing that offends you the most while listening to this, be offended by the fact that there's so much beautiful truth in the Bible.
00:48:35
Speaker
And we've listened to other people's interpretation of it, and we've allowed ourselves to be programmed subconsciously to push away certain things and to receive certain things. And so I would challenge you to begin questioning things. Go on a journey of questioning, stepping outside of your box, outside of your God box even, and being like,
00:48:57
Speaker
hey, what did he already give us? Even if you read the Old Testament, he's given us so many things. You talk about frankincense and myrrh and manna and all these beautiful things that he's given us, but yet you talk about ayahuasca and mushrooms.
00:49:15
Speaker
being medicinal now and we're like, no, no, I got Western medicine. You know, I'll just take a pill and medicate it, put the Band-Aid on it, but never actually get to the issues. I mean, there's so much science that shows like, hey, I deal with this physical issue.
00:49:30
Speaker
Yeah, because I've got this emotional issue in this part of my body and it's manifesting itself in a physical way and when people deal with that emotional issue They're like, whoa, where did my diabetes go or oh, where did you know, where did yeah, whatever go my depression go like We're a complex amazing creatures. Yeah created us that way. See we're in his image and
00:49:56
Speaker
Right. And so we can do infinitely more than we think we can do, but we can't be turned off by the beautiful creation that he's given us. That's there to help us. So anyway, it's interesting. Just as far as specific for programming that you're bringing up.
00:50:14
Speaker
Um, I can't help but think about how quick people are to pop a pill prescription or let's just use depression. I take an antidepressants. I think that they do help for some people, et cetera. I'm not swinging the pendulum is not swinging the other direction saying none of that is good or valid, but it is interesting in the vein of being programmed as far as what you accept.
00:50:37
Speaker
how a lot of us, and I remember, this was probably about seven years ago, when I chose to take antidepressants, I had to try, I think it was four of them, and where it takes weeks to get on them, and then you have to come off of them, and some of them were just, they really affected me, affected my sex life, they affected my, I felt like I'd stand up too fast and get lightheaded coming off of one. There's all these negative aspects of a pill that I'm willing to pop,
00:51:06
Speaker
But a psychedelic, people are so afraid of this quote unquote bad trip, but we take things all the time where if we read the potential negatives, then we would never put them into our body. And yet, at least in what I've been personally kind of navigating is, if I'm just boiling it down to pros and cons and stripping away my programming or my perception of something,
00:51:32
Speaker
what potentially could psychedelics help me with and help me access versus what are the potential or the perceived cons? And the more that I'm having these conversations and the more that I'm reading up on it, the more I'm looking into it, it's offending the part of me that's saying, oh, well, I just accepted that antidepressants is the only way that I can start to feel better.
00:51:57
Speaker
And, you know, because I accepted that as just, well, yep, you know, I'm a former Marine who's struggling with depression. My testosterone is low. And so I go to the VA and I get my pills until I'm better. And, and yet there's something that God has created that is in this earth. That is a potential, it's not for everyone, right? It's a potential avenue into something that is actually what I'm looking for.
00:52:24
Speaker
I mean we've talked about it I'm more than willing to dive into that the shadow of the soul or that darker side to be what's on the other side To really access a better part of my own heart and God's heart But it's just interesting to me that you know as you're talking how much of that even within myself and I think others is What not only what are what are you offended by but also what have you accepted as the norm?
00:52:54
Speaker
Versus you know, it's like the two sides of it. You may not you may not be offended It but you also may have just quote unquote swallowed the pill and said this is how it is and I think taking that approach of curiosity and asking questions is so important regardless of what your response is to this specific topic
00:53:16
Speaker
Yeah, and that's I mean, that's that's kind of and I remember I was going to say something earlier about talking to other people about it. Because when I first started diving into it, I had people that were like, Whoa, what are you what are you doing? And they want to talk to me in a way that's like,
00:53:37
Speaker
wanting me to repent, confess my sins of using psychedelics and become this good Christian again, or whatever that might look like. And I said, okay, let's have the conversation about psychedelics. Are you prepared to have this conversation? And just by asking that question or like,
00:53:55
Speaker
Gosh, I don't even know. I just think they're bad. I'm like, no, you're not prepared to have an educational conversation about psychedelics. But if you were, you took the time to educate yourself and just consider a new perspective, you would find that, you know, whether they're for you or not, you're going to have a much different understanding and belief system surrounding psychedelics. So and again, like,
00:54:20
Speaker
Psychedelic is an interesting word because it became synonymous with the hippie movement, right? But it didn't start off that way. It was actually coined by I think a journalist or a psychiatrist and a journalist. They coined together something like that. But he had a quote that said to fathom hell or to go angelic. Just take a pinch of psychedelic. That was the first term. He came up with that term. That was the first time it was ever used. That was back in like late fifties.
00:54:49
Speaker
And but it's had numerous names, but this one just happened to stick with the hippie movement. So another word I like to use is called entheogens, which is essentially hallucinogenic plant medicine. So entheogens, but ultimately what you're what you're dealing with is a
00:55:05
Speaker
compound, uh, what they call the spirit molecule molecule called DMT. Um, and that is what they is the active substance, the active compound in these substances that invoke an experience. The interesting thing is, is that they find DMT in everything.
00:55:26
Speaker
Yeah, like everything organic has some level of DMT. We ourselves have large amounts of DMT in our lungs. That's why you might hear people that do breathing exercises can occasion kind of a psychedelic experience or hallucinogenic experience in some level or they see the kaleidoscope visuals. We also have the pineal gland in the brain that also secretes DMT.
00:55:50
Speaker
And so, you know, these are they're there for a reason. Why do we have receptors in our brain that are they're shaped or they're almost like a lock and key to receive these other to receive these compound, these elements from the DMT. Like if that wasn't creative design, if that wasn't creative design, I don't know what is like.
00:56:16
Speaker
We were meant to work with this medicine. Yeah. We were meant to work with it. It was there to help us, you know, and some people might argue, you know, some people create, bring some great evidence to the table that maybe manna that is described in the old Testament is actually was some actually some form of hallucinogenic compound. Who knows? I don't know. Did you just say psychedelics were in the Bible?
00:56:45
Speaker
What? There's some evidence of it. There's some evidence of it. I mean, people can make some really good arguments about it, but... God created everything in the Bible, so that would mean that the mushrooms and the psychedelics would have to be a part of that, but heaven forbid they're a part of the Bible, right? Is that right?
00:57:05
Speaker
You won't find them actually called psilocybin mushrooms back then. They didn't have the scientific name back then, but it might have been. If you step outside of your Bible knowledge for a minute and actually do some historical research, you will find
00:57:21
Speaker
that there's so much evidence of civilizations incorporating mushrooms and other kind of, you know, entheogens into their daily or religious practices as a holy sacrament.
00:57:36
Speaker
You'll see it in the images, on the walls, things like that. There's even some evidence that the Essenes who were Christ lovers, they were very close in connection with Christ, practiced with that as well. So, who knows? We'd have to transport ourselves back 2,000 years ago.
00:57:55
Speaker
to stop playing this this game of telephone for the last two thousand years where we've got a message that probably doesn't look like it did originally.
Resources for Learning about Psychedelics
00:58:04
Speaker
Yeah. You know, and if it did, who knows what they would say about entheogens? Yeah, absolutely. So if somebody's been listening to this and they've made it this far, they haven't gotten pissed at me and unsubscribed. Where where would you point someone to?
00:58:23
Speaker
Regardless, let's say this is the first time they've ever thought about psychedelics in a way that isn't uh, you know lumped into category of every other bad drug in life or they're offended but curious or just kind of want to it's not even a matter of integrate it into their life necessarily but gain a a non-emotionally driven educational unbiased approach to understanding them Where would you point people?
00:58:50
Speaker
Yeah. And that's what I had to do initially too. Like I wasn't going to walk and I always investigate something thoroughly before I jump into it. Yeah. Okay. That's just, that's you want to know my Enneagram. It's a number five. It's a type five. It's the investigator. I have to really study something before I jump on board with it. And so that's what I did.
00:59:10
Speaker
And I just tried to absorb everything I could. And one thing would lead to another, you know, you can take the YouTube, you can thank YouTube for like saying, Oh, you like this? Try watching this, you know, kind of thing. But, um, you know, I'm gonna I want to take a quick step back and just I want to validate what you said about taking the depression medication. I took it as well. Once I got married eight years ago, I struggled a lot.
00:59:38
Speaker
Um, I brought a lot of baggage to the relationship. Uh, I didn't know what was wrong with me. Um, I struggled. I eventually got, you know, it was too much for my wife who was actually my ex wife now, uh, for her to handle. And so I got on SSR eyes. I was on that for about a year and a half. It didn't quite do the trick for me. I suffered the same way you have both, uh, you know, libido dropped. Um, I was numbed emotionally and this is just not a place. That's not the way I wanted to live. But again, it took me.
01:00:08
Speaker
four years after that, maybe to finally find something that would put me on the right path to begin doing that really deep work instead of just talk therapy, but do that deep work that. That heals me all the way down to the molecular level, right? Spiritually, physically, emotionally, everything like that.
01:00:30
Speaker
And so I started doing the research. YouTube is great just for getting started, looking up DMT, looking up ayahuasca, psilocybin mushrooms.
01:00:45
Speaker
MDMA is something MDMA and psilocybin is what is being used is almost being sanctioned or allowed to be used in certain therapy sessions around the world right now. And we'll talk about the US right now because they're pretty locked in with their rigidness. But there they've opened up the borders to cannabis. So now we're you know, it's kind of like that gateway. It's really a paved the way for these entheogens or these these
01:01:14
Speaker
These substances to begin to be used in a therapeutic sense now if you're always gonna have people that abuse stuff can't get away from that But that doesn't have to be the standard of the norm. So MDMA psilocybin is treating people now and it is getting amazing results in alcohol addiction PTSD
01:01:34
Speaker
Depression, people are being healed from those and removing themselves from those behaviors in droves because of the use of this. In fact, it's the number one smoking cessation program. 80 percent of the participants that use the that go through the psilocybin treatment stop smoking altogether. That there's no other cessation program that can even touch that figure.
01:02:03
Speaker
Even for myself, when I had my first ayahuasca experience, I kind of lost my desire to drink any alcohol. Whereas I wasn't a big drinker before, but at times, if I'm feeling pretty shitty, I will medicate. I would medicate with alcohol, have a few too many that night. I lost the desire to do that. That was great. I was like, this is awesome. So I see all that just to get to the treatment side of it. So MAPS.
01:02:31
Speaker
Uh ma ps of course, there's a lot of organizations out there that have that maps acronym Um, i'm trying to remember exactly What it stands for but it was essentially psychedelic um something association or psychedelic Something but anyway, the whole there the forefront on the forefront of
01:02:56
Speaker
psychiatric treatment using entheogens or psychedelics so using psilocybin MDMA and they have been given they've just doing a fantastic job of leading the way uh and i know i spoke with you about it earlier about this this mud coffee that we drink yeah yeah proceeds you know that uh that they receive go to funding that organization where people are getting healed in droves and it's incredible so you can look up maps
01:03:26
Speaker
Go ahead and say something. I was just going to clarify one thing. We don't drink mud for coffee in the morning. Uh, there's a brand called mud water, which is made up of mushrooms and a lot of other great ingredients, psychedelic ones though. Not psychedelic mushrooms. Yeah. Um, that Seth turned me on to that. I really enjoyed it's replaced coffee. It has one seventh of the caffeine. It's just.
01:03:53
Speaker
It's a great, especially if you feel like you still want to have something warm in the morning, which I normally do. It kind of scratches that itch and yet has so many more beneficial properties than just spiking your adrenals and then having a crash a few hours later. So that's what he was referring to in the sense of mud that we drink in the morning.
01:04:11
Speaker
Yeah, I don't drink actual mud. I'm glad you clarified that. And we should probably just clarify that the mushrooms that are in it are lion's mane, reishi, and chaga. So there's no psychedelic activity. Yeah, those are really good for you as well. And that could probably be a podcast in and of itself in the sense of just talking about mushrooms in general, you know, the types, what they do, all that kind of stuff. I want to say that obviously you're going to be coming back on at other times and save that for a later time.
01:04:41
Speaker
But as far as you specifically How can people find you? What are you up to? What's going on in your world? They're they're like man. I I love the way that you're speaking. It really hits something deep How can they contact you if they want to be coached by you kind of what's going on in your world? Yeah. Yeah, so um, I keep a
01:05:04
Speaker
I keep backtracking a little bit and never actually answering your question fully. And so I apologize for that. People are probably listening going, he didn't really answer the question. You saw the previous question there. Well, the other thing I would say is a good place to start. If you just really want to research the history, um, the implications, um, from a semi unbiased view, just a journalist perspective, um, is.
01:05:33
Speaker
Uh, Michael Paulin has an amazing book that he put out not too long ago and it's called how to change your mind. What the new science of psychedelics tells us. So how to change your mind by Michael Paulin, P O L L E N is a fantastic read. Um, even if like this isn't ever for you, just having a really clear understanding so that you can have an intelligible conversation with others in the future, because the one thing I tell
01:06:03
Speaker
You know, Christians is like, Hey, quit. You know, when you've got this other part of the world that's like new agey and we go, Oh no, not the new age, you know, they, they believe in all this stuff, but they're looking at us going, you guys are stuck in your box and you're so judgmental and you're hypocritical and you don't ever listen.
01:06:21
Speaker
And I go, Yeah, you're absolutely right. What we do is we blindly follow, you know, in faith, which is such a distorted thing. We won't get into the deconstruction part because that'll be a part of it. But we blindly follow and we check our brains at the door. But even scripture tells us it is the mission, in this paraphrase, is the mission of kings to seek these things out, right?
Guest's Current Work and Contact Information
01:06:45
Speaker
It is our mission to investigate, to research, not to check our brain at the door.
01:06:51
Speaker
and follow blindly, but to seek these things out. So anyway, to get a hold of me.
01:06:59
Speaker
And I'll answer kind of where I'm at right now. I launched a digital marketing agency about two years ago. So we're still kind of in that two-year launch phase, but it's gained traction. And you can find me on social media. I need just Seth Conner. Or you can... I was trying to think here. Social Brand Syndicate is the name of the company. You can go there. We're just finding on Facebook at Seth Conner.
01:07:29
Speaker
Um, mostly everything out there right now is geared towards that agency. Okay, so you're not going to find anything about me promoting This kind of conversation. However I do talk to a lot of people I do um, you know, I i'll coach folks from time to time if the if the situation one if I had the time but two
01:07:49
Speaker
If I feel called to it, if we have a conversation, have a strategy session, if you will, and they, and it sounds like I'm called to mentor them or be with them, then, then I will consider that. But right now my focus is the, the marketing agency. Um, yeah, I think that's about, and you can just, you can email me too at Seth at Seth Connor.com. And that's with an E R C O N N E R.
01:08:12
Speaker
Great. Yeah, that's and we'll we'll make sure we put all this in the show notes as well as links to the mud water in the book and everything else. So make sure you visit that. Well, like I said, that you are it's almost a guarantee that you will be on for future episodes. I love having the conversation. Really, this all stemmed from us talking as friends. And then I basically came to a point where it was
01:08:38
Speaker
I forget if you brought it up or if I did where I was like man I just need to get you on the podcast because I think so many other people can benefit both your passion as well as your education and understanding and experiences so whether that's back for deconstruction or mushrooms or the variety of ayahuasca ayahuasca can be its own which I'm preparing for this weekend I got another ceremony this weekend
01:09:04
Speaker
So a lot of what you're talking about is not just hearsay, it's actually, you've implemented and integrated into your life. So thanks for taking the time to share with my audience. And I know that I've gotten a lot out of just listening to you and I know that other people have as well.