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Hello 2024! Let's discuss Podcasting ft. PodPack Collective
184 Plays1 year ago
Hello everyone and welcome to the very first episode of 2024! In this episode Satsunami is joined by Dan from the Casting Views podcast to give his views on all things podcasting. What does it mean to be a podcaster? Is there a secret to success? And will the duo finally get an episode under an hour? Let's find out!
This podcast is a member of the PodPack Collective. The members are as follows:
Chatsunami
Casting Views
Nerdstalgic
2 Girls 1 Reusable Cup
Review it Yourself
Seismic Cinema
For further information, please follow the link: https://www.chatsunami.com/p/podpack-collective/
Check out all of our content here: https://linktr.ee/chatsunami
Website: chatsunami.com
Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/ChatsunamiPod
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/chatsunami/
TikTok: tiktok.com/@chatsunami
Patrons:
Battle Toaster
Sonia
Greenshield95
Danny Brown
Use my special link zen.ai/chatsunami and use chatsunami to save 30% off your first three months of Zencastr professional. #madeonzencastr
Stay safe, stay awesome and most importantly, stay hydrated!
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Transcript
Introduction and Welcome
00:00:05
Speaker
Welcome to Chatsunami.
00:00:16
Speaker
Hello everybody and welcome to the very first episode of Chad Tsunami in 2024. My name's Sad Tsunami and joining me today is none other than the Podcasting Legends himself. You may have heard him in his Podcast casting views, it's the one and only Dan. Dan, welcome back to Chad Tsunami.
00:00:37
Speaker
I've just got the biggest smile on my face. What an intro. You're a lovely guy. Thank you. No problem at all. And people who are listening to this would know that I absolutely fumbled that intro. I took about three tries before I was like, yes, this is what I want to say. I know words. I know English.
00:00:57
Speaker
with the magic of editing, you'd have got away with it. Exactly. But you know what? Transparency, honesty, that is not our tagline, but you know what? We're going to run with it.
Podcasting Challenges and Determination
00:01:06
Speaker
It's a new year. It's a new red panda. But how are you doing tonight? I am doing very well. And I actually want to say, yes, thank you. I'm really, really honored to be your first guest or your first episode in 2024. So, yeah, no, I'm doing really well, thank you.
00:01:20
Speaker
I'm doing really well. At the time of recording I'd had this cold and bug for a couple of weeks but I was saying to you before we press record I've started to feel pretty much 90% human again now so I'm good to go, I'm good to go. It honestly is just the time of year I think because
00:01:35
Speaker
If anyone out there has listened to a couple of episodes ago, I think it was like our hallmark reviews of the bad Christmas films, you can definitely hear I am completely bunged up and that is a nightmare, isn't it? See when you're recording and you plan well in advance but you know what? Illness is in seasonal flus. They do not wait for you. They do not wait for podcasters.
00:01:57
Speaker
But you know what though, I actually kind of like that. You know when you've listened to a podcast for so long that you know the podcaster's voice and you can tell there's a variation so you know they've recorded with a cold and the fact that they've continued to do it to get that content out. I think it's also, like I said, you get to know that person that the way their voice sounds and you just know straight away if they've had a cold, got a cold or feeling slightly under the weather.
00:02:20
Speaker
it always reminds me of and I don't know if you've seen this episode of The Simpsons but it's always the scene I think of where Homer wants to go to Duff Gardens which is like this huge beer amusement park.
00:02:35
Speaker
and he ends up eating a dodgy sandwich and he still wants to go but he's turning blue, he's shivering, he's like really really sick and he's in the car tooting the horn going musket to Duff Gardens and that's how I feel so even I have to record for a podcast episode and it's like yeah maybe you should take a break, maybe you should you know sit this one out and obviously if I was really under the weather I wouldn't do it but it always reminds me of that just being like no the people need me I have to podcast
00:03:03
Speaker
It's funny isn't it? I'm sure we'll probably talk about this in what you've framed this episode around but
Journey in Podcasting
00:03:08
Speaker
it is true. Yeah I think as a podcaster you shouldn't be afraid to make sure you take time for yourself I think yeah absolutely. Oh no definitely. Of course before we go into the main discussion of this episode because let's face it I am really excited to jump into this with you. It is of course going to be a discussion about not only our journey as podcasters but as well what we've learned, what we've
00:03:31
Speaker
picked up are secrets of the trade as it were, casting chats if you will, by pulling back the curtain of this very fickle industry of course, yeah, the industry. But before we jump into that night, I'm really excited to be talking about this today with you especially.
Podpack Collective Overview
00:03:48
Speaker
This is a very special episode because not only is it the first episode of 2024, which again is absolutely fantastic,
00:03:56
Speaker
But at the same time, if you have listened to our previous announcement, you'll know that we are doing this not as ourselves. I mean, technically as ourselves as casting viewers in Chatsunami, but we are also doing this under a brand new group called the Podpack Collective. Try saying that three times. Yeah, we did think about that, did we? Yes.
00:04:16
Speaker
Yeah, I have to say whenever we are DMing one another or we're in the group chat, it's always the Podpack or it's the collective. I feel as if Podpack collective saying it several times. In fact, it's in all honesty, it's a bit like, you know, Beetlejuice, if you say it three times, we'll just all be here with microphones and we'll just be saying, oh, do you want to record an episode? I was like, yeah, maybe, maybe not.
00:04:38
Speaker
So you know when you see actors in programs doing the warm-up vocals and they're saying like red lorry, yellow lorry and stuff like that, you always say podpack collective, podpack collective, podpack collective, podpack collective. There's some subliminal advertising there as well, yeah. What was that? The podpack collective?
00:04:53
Speaker
Yes, the Podpack Collective, absolutely. So for those of you who don't know, the Podpack Collective is a group of indie podcasters, including myself, the Amazing Casting Views, as we discussed, the Review It Yourself podcast,
00:05:10
Speaker
Nerdstalgic as well, Two Girls One Reusable Cup Podcast, and last but certainly not least, the Seismic Cinema Podcast. All of them absolutely fantastic podcasters. And I'm not just saying that because you're on Dan as well. I just want to point that out, not just saying that.
00:05:27
Speaker
No you're right, I mean obviously I've known you now that this is going into my third year and I think as if recording tomorrow night I'm recording an episode to go out over Christmas and I think you were my first guest on my show that I had and yeah we've spoken for like over two years now. Luke is just one of the most nostalgic, he's just one of the most super positive people and yeah I had him on the show, well I had him on the show once but we talk all the time. Seismic cinema I really got to know this year or last year now and
00:05:55
Speaker
had them online, I've been on theirs and I've been in and around conversations with, yeah, review it yourself in the Two Girls podcast, you know, and just in our Twitter DM chat gelled straight away with everyone, didn't it? It is a really good bunch of people. Yeah, I'm not gonna lie, I'm actually so surprised at how well we've
00:06:14
Speaker
clicked together and I'm not saying that as a kind of oh-pat myself in the back here but when we all came together although individually I wouldn't have invited a terrible or very hostile podcast on to begin with but the fact was when everyone started talking and now it's become almost like a regular checking your DMs for the group
00:06:34
Speaker
Also, what's important to say is there is, and when I say disagreement, I'm not talking about arguments, but it's not like we'll think the same. There's been disagreements in recent weeks about certain entertainment programs and stuff, but it's all taken really good manners. And what I'm trying to say by that is we aren't necessarily all people that all think the same thing and that's why we're all together and get on well. Everyone's got different or we have had varying views on things, but it's all done in a brilliant way and conversational way.
00:06:59
Speaker
Oh yeah, absolutely. As you said, we've had a very passionate discussion about a certain TV show that's been on, not naming any names. Who could that be? Who could that be? Yeah, who could that be? Who knows? Who could that be? The fact is, as you said, that
00:07:14
Speaker
We do have our own opinions on things but we're never confrontational about it. Like if someone doesn't like something they'll make a vocal but at the same time the whole point of the Podpack Collective is a group of us anti-podcasters trying to create a more positive space within the anti-podcast community and don't get me wrong the anti-podcast community as a whole is absolutely fantastic. Like I genuinely think
00:07:41
Speaker
that is one of the nicest online communities I've ever been a part of and to have this almost concentrated group of them look from their nostalgic podcast, absolutely fantastic podcaster brimming with positivity, I still need to get him on.
00:07:58
Speaker
That is my New Year's resolution to get him on for an episode because I keep saying to him, I want to get you on for an episode for an interview or just in general. Sean from Review It Yourself. I've had him on for a couple. I've had him, ironically enough, talking about podcasting, talking about Star Trek as well. The Two Girls, One Reusable Cup podcast. Yeah, Beth and Marie. I need to get an episode sorted with them because that's another podcast. I've said, yeah, I need to have you on.
00:08:27
Speaker
and then I kind of put it on the to-do list and never ticked it off so really need to get on that and again I need to get Seismic Cinema on because I was on theirs for a I think it was a Mandalorian episodes ranking. I think it was only for season one and two at the time but absolutely fantastic podcasters absolutely you know lovely guys everybody's lovely and the group to be honest everybody there's not one person
00:08:54
Speaker
And again, I'm not just saying this for legal reasons, but there's not one person that I would not say like, oh, don't check out their podcast. No, no, no. If you've heard the names of these podcasts, do check them out. Clearly after this episode, of course, listen to this episode. Go check them out. They are part of the Podpack Collective and we're hoping that we will be able to really
00:09:15
Speaker
braid our message and what we're about as podcasters, as people and I'm really looking forward to how we get on but see without any further ado, will we just jump into talking about all things podcast? Absolutely, let's do it. And as always you
Podcasting Topics and Experiences
00:09:31
Speaker
guys know the drill by now, we will be right back after these messages.
00:09:35
Speaker
Welcome to Chatsunami, a variety podcast that discusses topics from gaming and films to anime and journal interests. Previously on Chatsunami, we've analysed what makes a good horror game, conducted a retrospective on Pierce Brosnan's runs James Bond, and listened to us take deep dives into both the Sonic and Halo franchises.
00:09:54
Speaker
Also, if you're an anime fan, then don't forget to check us out on our sub-series, Chatsunani, where we dive into the world of anime. So far, we've reviewed things like Death Note, Princess Mononoke, and the hit Beyblade series. If that sounds like your cup of tea, then you can check us out on Spotify, iTunes, and all big podcast apps. As always, stay safe, stay awesome, and most importantly, stay hydrated.
00:10:21
Speaker
fancy taking the humorous trip down a random topic each week? You do while you're in luck. Casting Views presented by me Dan and a host of guests bring you just that. With topics from the world of entertainment, science, sport and everyday life, there's bound to be a topic that's going to inform on the news. Catch Casting Views every Sunday on all listening platforms now.
00:10:47
Speaker
So let's talk about podcasting, which I know, shock order. I'm sorry I had to spring that all year at the last minute, Dan. I got all my notes about the Christmas movies. I thought that's what we were on here for. No, no, that's next year. There's a new year.
00:11:02
Speaker
That's the end of 2024, Satsu and Dan's problem. Oh, and it wasn't about the Mass Effect trilogy, which you promised me you were going to do. Oh, OK, all right. I mean, if it's still on Game Pass in 2024, I will play it and I'll need to get an episode done with you. Right, everyone, you've heard that. You've heard that, everyone.
00:11:20
Speaker
Yeah, see if you hear Skirubba one in the background. That's not me. That's my Red Panda lawyer furiously drafting the contract for that episode. I'm waiting for my specific month. I'm waiting for it. That's all I'm saying. Honestly, at this stage, I can't do it justice, but soon. That's all I'll say. Soon. As long as I play the games first.
00:11:41
Speaker
But going back to podcasting, you and I, of course, have talked about our journey, our experiences with the medium and how we both started. I mean, did we both start out relatively similar times? I think you're up to a year ahead of me. So I've just, well, I turned two, as it were, in September 23.
00:12:02
Speaker
Yeah, I think you're right then, because we turned three in November. But to be fair though, it sounds a lot to say about considering how 2020 and 2021 went in terms of years, they practically just blurred together, didn't they?
Indie vs Celebrity Podcasting
00:12:18
Speaker
Yeah, yeah.
00:12:18
Speaker
because I think one of my friends made this joke when I fumbled one of the years talking about a film and I think I said the 20-somethings and I feel as if that just summarises the 2020s perfectly so far. I mean we're not even halfway through the 2020s and yet we're saying oh it's the 20-somethings because the first couple of years have been an absolute blur in terms of obviously the lockdown and the pandemic and things like that but
00:12:44
Speaker
See from when you started podcasting and then you have evolved, of course, to your two-year podiversity. I remember the name there. I was like, was it anniversary podiversity? I was nearly forgetting that there. But have you felt there's been a change in the way you podcast? I think the biggest thing is more the confidence around doing it. I think for at least six months, or at least I'd say the first year, there was a huge amount of, I kind of want to say,
00:13:12
Speaker
going on in the sense of I also kind of got in another group of American podcasts, a really good bunch of people who are super supportive and like I was listening to them and one of the things I want to say is if you are starting out or you're fairly new is you should never compare yourself to other podcasts but I was listening to them and thinking I don't sound as good as that, have I got, I don't see I've got my content is like that but yeah it's just that what's the word is that in pasta syndrome it is a negativity sort of creep
00:13:40
Speaker
in, you know I'm sure a lot of us are but I'm my own worst critic but I think over time yeah the kind of confidence and I just really really enjoy it, I always have done but for a period of time it felt it was like a second job because it is, I think people don't realise especially if you're doing it weekly and you're trying to plan ahead the amount of effort that goes into producing a weekly podcast but yeah I think the confidence I've got, I think the
00:14:05
Speaker
friends that the friendship I've made and the support I get from the wider community it's just meant I'm a lot more or I've been a lot more sort of headstrong in choosing subjects and thinking yeah I'll run with that that's going to be a good topic and sort of starting to branch out a little bit in terms of from what I have done to trying to evolve I think that's now the confidence is breeding evolution now I think in the pod.
00:14:27
Speaker
Now I totally agree with you there in terms of when you were talking about the self-confidence thing because I think and I've spoken about this before but I do think there is a somewhat stigma especially nowadays about podcasting because
00:14:42
Speaker
It's almost been overrun by a lot of celebrities and influencers, you know, people who just turn on a mic and obviously because they have whole teams behind them and everything, they don't really have to put much effort into themselves. But when you compare them versus us in the indie podcast and sphere, there is a stark difference and I think that a lot of people conflate.
00:15:07
Speaker
the two and they don't realise it's like a journey of self-confidence because I totally agree with you. For me if anyone out there is brave enough and you want to listen to how I podcasted when I began because I did it live for the first 50 episodes I want to say over on Twitch and oh my god I was absolutely terrified. You can hear it in my voice I was just like
00:15:30
Speaker
uh hello welcome to Chatsunami, please don't hurt me. Now I obviously wouldn't say I'm perfect by any means, I've still got a long way to go but I feel as if I've grown somewhat in the way that I do the show, the way that I talk about certain topics and things. There's definitely that growth that comes with podcasting but when you compare it to people like for example
00:15:53
Speaker
So celebrity is a high profile people who come on and they've obviously had more experience behind a mic or on camera. So do you feel as if that is the case that a lot of people seem to hold podcasters to a very high standard in that regard?
00:16:10
Speaker
I think so but I do think in the indie world though there is that understanding and I think everyone is super supportive. I think there's been some podcasts I listen to where even I've said all the audio sounds a bit like maybe they had a different microphone at the start but you listen through that because I was thinking well I want to listen to that person, I want to listen to the content. I think there can be if
00:16:32
Speaker
people are just searching around I think it's a lot harder for the indies to make a name and to get out there which is one of the reasons for the Podpack Collective to help each other promote each other but I think I've been okay in that I mean I fortunately do look out you see the posts about the One Star Club on reviews and I've avoided that so far but I know I think when I do get that even though it's three years in it will still be kind of a gut blow and I do think probably those are comparing it to like your slick
00:17:01
Speaker
big budget celebrity podcast. Because I have to say one thing that annoyed me about getting into the one star review club wasn't so much the fact that I got it like I was a bit bummed out don't get me wrong but see if you do get a one star you know because I feel as if it's inevitable the more you grow as a podcaster and I mean personally for me I do not think that casting views deserves anything below a five star.
00:17:28
Speaker
That's just my personal preference. But I remember when I got my first one-star review and do you know what I was most annoyed about? The fact that I saw all of these people on Twitter slash X and all these places saying, oh, look at this funny review I got. Oh, you know, and they had a long block of text and it was the most ridiculous.
00:17:48
Speaker
deculous reasons. Oh, I don't like her voice, or oh, I don't like the way this podcast is going into certain topics and things. I got nothing. I just got one star. Oh, what is it? The same Mrs. Doubtfire. It was a run by one star.
00:18:03
Speaker
And I was raging because I'm like, I can't turn that into content. Yeah, constructive criticism, people. Exactly. I mean, I'm not going to clap because that would blow out some people's eardrums. But you know, that would be more of the emoji clapping. Absolutely right. And the thing is, I'm not expecting everyone to love my podcast,
Listener Feedback and Community Support
00:18:23
Speaker
right? I know it won't suit some people. I know the content won't be enjoyable to everyone.
00:18:28
Speaker
I think what people have to understand is, you know, even a podcast is a year or 18 months old, there's a person behind it and you don't know how they're feeling like. I think to clarify or to elaborate on what I said to your first question about how I think I've changed is like, I know a lot of people say this, but when I first created Casting Views, I honestly didn't expect more than a handful of people in my immediate sort of vicinity to listen to it. I honestly didn't. It was just something I wanted to do. Then people did start listening.
00:18:54
Speaker
And that made me nervous because I was thinking, well, I've got people listening now now have to carry on or not carry on, but have to make this a good listen. And that then puts the extra pressure on you. We've all got jobs. We've all got families. We've all got things going on. And I'm not saying it's necessarily excuse to just put anything out there.
00:19:11
Speaker
but I think that's what I'm trying to say is that don't be put off if you did get some negativity around it because I think sometimes some of these one-star things there's a possibly a bit of spite or malice in it. I'd welcome if somebody said something to me like you know if you messaged me and said oh in your latest episode I didn't think this worked I didn't think that worked.
00:19:28
Speaker
as you said brilliant let me know if you think there's something wrong but there's people behind this who are putting themselves out there like I'm not saying I'm not a social person but if you'd have said to me five years ago that I'd be putting myself out there in a podcast I'd have laughed at you because I would have said there's no way I'm doing that and you know yet here I am enjoying it but there's still that element of yeah I hope people like it you know I hope people like me I hope people like it
00:19:51
Speaker
it's not something they expect to be so personal and I know that sounds such a weird thing to say that oh it's a podcast where you're talking about pop culture for example like you and I talk about films, gaming but at the same time we also dive into a lot of
00:20:10
Speaker
relatively serious topics as well and not only are we putting ourselves out there as you said but we're putting our opinions out there or beliefs or feelings on it and that can get quite personal when you're sharing your own experience because I think a lot of people
00:20:26
Speaker
although granted we at Chatsunami anyway, my co-hosts and I do try to put a funny spin on a lot of things around moments where we do bring it back, we try to be a little more serious for certain topics and things, but at the same time that's kind of leaving us vulnerable for what we believe in, what we say, what we think,
00:20:47
Speaker
because we're never going to hide it, we're never going to say, oh, we think that this is great, blah, blah, blah, when we, where we don't. I mean, I've had some, and again, I say hot takes relatively hot takes in the context of things, but I think it's something that a lot of people don't really consider, I suppose, when they go into podcasting, because speaking about experience going into it, I always remember when I started the podcast,
00:21:12
Speaker
and I think the listeners who have already heard this story will be sick to the back teeth of it but when I started I did it on Twitch. I did it as a kind of side project because Twitch streaming was essentially my escapism during the lockdown where I went on stream, I talked to people, I played games and then I thought you know what I love the talking aspect
00:21:36
Speaker
and not so much the gaming aspect and then I saw my friends do podcasts and I thought you know what maybe I'll put my hand into this and so you know honestly like Chatsunami Jr was started as a site project that I thought you know what we'll see how it goes but I'm not gonna put a lot of effort into and then as you said the more and more your podcast grows and it's especially the case with indie podcasts the more and more it grows the more you think oh I've got to put more effort and consideration into this podcast
00:22:05
Speaker
And it is weird to think when people, I don't know if you've had this as well, when people message you and they say, oh I loved such and such an episode or they said, oh it's a great episode and you're kind of sitting there and it's not someone you know in real life, it's someone you've either met through podcasting or it's a mutual acquaintance of the podcasting community. Do you ever feel quite weird when you hear that? Like I mean in the best way possible but do you ever feel like, huh, not what I expected?
00:22:34
Speaker
Yeah, when somebody messages me and says I really like the episode or just asks a question about it, I love it. Like I said, I'm not expecting it and I could go 100 episodes and if nobody does message me or comment, I'd be fine with that. But it kind of actually is quite touching because like I said, the 45 minute hour and a half episode you put out is 45 minutes an hour and a half to someone. But for you, it's probably been two weeks in the planning and the making and the recording and the editing and you put it out
00:23:00
Speaker
and yeah it is the creation of yours and if I've got someone to listen and then feel compelled to message me I just think that's the best thing in the world. What I'd say as well is I absolutely think if you are in a podcasting or think about getting into it the positivity you get back if you put it in is just second to none so
00:23:19
Speaker
I made it a thing of mine, if I found a new podcast, I'm not going to say unnecessarily, I've not done it to every single one, but when I've found a podcast I've really liked, I will message them and just say, look, and I think I might have done it with you, I know I've done it with a couple of others, I will message them and say, look, I'm not expecting anything back, but I just want to say I've listened to a few episodes of your podcast, it's brilliant, really enjoying it, you know, keep up the excellent work. Just because I feel I know what it means to me when I get that comment, I don't mean it to sound patronizing or condescending, but I think
00:23:47
Speaker
for the independent creators. Just knowing that someone's listened to it and has felt compelled to write in just means a lot to me. So I just make sure I return the favour. These people are spending hours each week putting out content for free that you're enjoying. So the least I can kind of do is say thank you and yeah I'm really enjoying it.
00:24:03
Speaker
Now I do the exact same thing, I have to say there's nothing better than see when you listen to someone's podcast and you think oh this is pretty good and then you message them later on and say oh I loved so and so episode or oh I thought that your series on XYZ
00:24:21
Speaker
was great because it's actually a great way and again I'm not saying to do this superficially, genuinely listen to the people's podcasts that you're reaching out to here but it is really amazing how that one message can
00:24:37
Speaker
brighten up someone's day because i have to say it brightens up my day as well i totally agree with you but what i also love is the fact that it can help forge new relationships with other podcasters and what i mean by that is just the fact that you can reach out to other indie podcasters and you might look at their followers or such and you think oh my god they've got thousands of followers how am i supposed to approach them
00:25:03
Speaker
And you know what, see most of the time whenever I've approached a podcaster who maybe has more followers than me or less followers, personally to me it doesn't really matter and I'm sure it's the same for yourself. But the fact that when you reach out and you talk to them, at the end of the day it's just another creator like yourself who is wanting to get their message.
00:25:24
Speaker
through the podcast out there and to be told you know oh your podcast is amazing or oh i really enjoyed it it can mean the world to them and i know as you said it certainly means the world to me and the fact is that the podcast community and i don't know if you've noticed this especially on twitter slash x but you start to see the same people pop up within the community if you notice that there's obviously the prolific
00:25:50
Speaker
creators are always there and I think you do surround yourself as you said you will follow people that you like and are on the same wavelength as you and yeah I think we all kind of mix in similar circles don't we it's just the degrees of closeness we get to other podcasts without you know which is why it's sort of forming a group like this has been great because as I said earlier you know I was very close and chatty to yourself and nerdstalgic
00:26:14
Speaker
I'd started being in around because I think of my relationship with proximity to the two of you with a couple of the others and then we've joined this group and you then get to mix more with a couple of others I might not have even had spoken to before and I think this is exactly it. Things like this are key and like I said the positivity and reaching out to people just helps you expand that net of context and support.
00:26:37
Speaker
can't remember if it was you I was saying this to or maybe it was Sean from review yourself but I was essentially saying how the fact is that we do talk to each other quite a lot over DMs or over tweets through comments and things like that and this practically cuts out not in the middleman but you know it practically brings that podcasting relationship to the next level if that makes
00:27:02
Speaker
sense in the sense that we're all basically talking to each other anyway so why not come together as this group and yeah try and make an impact which i have to say to be honest even without the pod park collective
00:27:17
Speaker
I think you guys are doing absolutely fantastic on your
Community Building and Support Systems
00:27:20
Speaker
own. If I had to think of a indie podcaster who's made a big impact, I genuinely would say either yourself or, as I said, Nerdsstylejake, got to review it yourself to get us one reusable cap in Seismic Cinema. I think all you guys really just have such a great impact on the indie podcasting community as a whole.
00:27:41
Speaker
Thank you very much. I'm right back at you. And I think this is exactly why when you came to me or you mentioned that you're going to do this, I said, absolutely, I'll help you in any way. Because as I said, there's another group I'm in. The only reason I got into that, I think, was again, talking about the positivity was I had reached out to, it was Antonio, the cult worthy, I think. And to link back to something you said earlier, he had done at the time, like a personal recount of a story about him from his childhood and it resonated with me. So I messaged him and
00:28:09
Speaker
Then there was another podcast, they've been on a hiatus for a while but Unsheff, Brendan at Unsheff and I remember messaging him and then they were putting a group together and because I'd reached out to a couple of them, I think this is how it went, they invited me in and like you said, everyone in the Podpack are all brilliant in their own right, really successful but what doing this does is just supporting each other so there'll be times, everyone does it, there'll be times when we're feeling a bit down or unsure about something
00:28:35
Speaker
So what better to have a group of people where you put it in and we will be supporting, but there will also be the subjective bit. Have you thought about this or what about this? And that's what this is, you know, just because you see a podcast that's successful or you look at them and you think, oh, they must be mega successful doesn't mean that they don't need support from time to time.
00:28:52
Speaker
Oh, no, I completely agree with that. And it's especially the case with newer podcasts as well when they see someone with tons of listens or tons of followers. And I have to say that doesn't always equal success. And, you know, that's not to detract from anyone who does have all of those aspects. But at the same time, it is that case of I have to admit, I sometimes do feel guilty doing this when I put up a milestone or something saying
00:29:20
Speaker
oh I've got so many plays you know and on the one hand I'm proud of how I've advanced as like a podcast show and everything but on the other hand I don't want other people to think that because I've reached this milestone and I've got comments where people have been like oh I've only got
00:29:37
Speaker
thousand plays or I've only got a couple of hundred. I see the fact that whenever I see those particular tweets I always do my best to try and comment on them to say that is absolutely fantastic because it is. I don't think new podcasters and people outside the podcasting sphere you know us and our only types might not know as
00:29:58
Speaker
no matter whether you're at a hundred, a thousand or even a million listens, it's your own personal journey and not everybody's going to follow the same milestones. You know, I'm not going to get a million listens by the end of the year. I mean, that would be lovely. If anybody wants to put a million, you know, that would be amazing.
00:30:18
Speaker
I think there's a difference between confidence slash celebration tweets and arrogance. And I think anyone that knows you knows that you're doing it because you are genuinely celebrating that milestone. The thing with me is I kind of schedule the pods. I very rarely thought I keep forgetting to look at the insight section of my house. And I've changed and so many times that might keep resetting. But I think I remember when I got like a hundred listens, I was saying to my wife, I was over the moon and you do, you celebrate. And I think it's good to celebrate these things. And I think there is a difference.
00:30:47
Speaker
between being happy and celebrating an achievement to it being bragging or arrogance and I think it can come through if you're doing that letter one and like I said I don't see anyone ever begrudges anyone from supporting all I've seen when say you've put posts like that or other posts is just really supportive comments and I because I think everyone loves to see it as in loves to see somebody do well well most nice people like to see people doing well. Yeah because
00:31:12
Speaker
again this is very rare at least in my experience anyway for the indie podcast community but there have been one or two comments where you do look at them and not that they're negative but it's more the case that they almost begrudge other people for reaching the milestones and i'm not talking about anyone in particular here
00:31:32
Speaker
but I've seen a lot of people say, oh great, everybody's getting listens about me or oh everybody's got a successful show about me. And the thing I want to stress here is it's not about toxic positivity, you know that way where it's just like the permanent smile. Even if you are going through a hard time, you try to put on a positive attitude and try and mask
00:31:54
Speaker
that I do think there has to be some form of sincerity there but when you're part of one particular spectrum or the other in terms of how you're feeling that day, it's okay to feel as if you're happy or prideful about your podcast and alternatively if you're disappointed or even sad about your podcast, it's okay to reach out to others and as you said you made a fantastic
00:32:18
Speaker
point that with the Podpack collective, we have been messaging one another in the group chat saying, oh, I don't know about this, I don't know about that, or wanting tips or advice on this or that. And I think that is fantastic to have a support network. That's something I would recommend
00:32:35
Speaker
And again, this goes to all indie creator spaces. It's not just for us as broadcasters, but I wouldn't recommend trying to bring people down, you know, and obviously this is very rare, but it's just it's not constructive because I feel as if one of us succeeds, then we're practically all succeeding because the more high profile indie broadcasters we get up there, the more that
00:33:02
Speaker
other indie podcasts down below, you know, we can look up to that and say this is achievable. And I absolutely love supporting other indie podcasts, whether they've got five followers, whether they've got a million followers, you know, maybe not a million, that's too much, but you know what I mean. Yeah, for me, you almost don't even look necessarily at the followers the podcast got, as if they are approaching me.
00:33:22
Speaker
I just want to help them because as a human, you know, like I said, I've had Antonio from the cult, I've had him early on FaceTiming me because I had audio issues and I didn't know how to do it and he took me through how to do some things in Audacity. You've seen like the artwork I do, that's just in front of the movie. I don't give him anything that I keep saying, look, if you've got Patreon, I'll donate to it or something. But this is what I'm saying, my intro and outro music is done by another pod and this is how supportive the
00:33:48
Speaker
group is. I mean, I hope you don't mind me saying, but you know, when you upgraded your microphone recently in the chat, you put some questions about that. And yeah, there was a conversation around that. And this is what I'm saying. We can't know everything all the time. I sometimes think I know very little about things. So the wider the net of people you've got that you can talk to, the experiences that we've had, the knowledge we've got. You know, I'm not saying that you might ask me a question, I might give you an answer. If you say, do you know what? Yeah, I'll take on board, but I'm not going to do that. Yeah, I'm not going to be
00:34:16
Speaker
Because in the end, you're a great person and it's your podcast, it's your brand, you know what you want to do with that. But you can at least get that off that question off your chest and see what comes back. And that's what I'm trying to say is it's about, there are people who have been through it. If you've hit a problem, if it's say you're starting up a podcast and you hit a problem, so many people have trodden that path before you. So why not put yourself out there and reach out and learn from other people's mistakes and experiences?
00:34:41
Speaker
You know, it actually reminds me of, and I can't believe I'm thinking back to university here, but... It's only a couple of years ago for you, isn't it? Well, let me count. I mean, oh god, it's like seven or eight years, which... Well, keep going for me, so we'll look at this. Let me just have an existential meltdown in the corner where you're like, yeah, first time, yeah. But I always remember one of my uni lecturers had a tale about it, and this is probably quite a common one,
00:35:10
Speaker
that you know a lot of teachers and tutors and things like to tell their students but he was talking about how there was this one student that was really afraid to put up his hand because he didn't want to look stupid in front of his peers and then long story short he eventually put up his hand and he said listen I'm sorry I don't understand this at all can you talk me through
00:35:33
Speaker
and then I think the tutor turned around and said, well does anybody else understand the issue? Can anyone else explain? And nobody in the room could because all of them were silent and they also didn't want to project the fact that they didn't know what was going on or about the topic. It just sort of rooted, I'm sure there's a proverb or something about that,
00:35:56
Speaker
but it's rooted in the fact that you might not know about something and this is something I always do and I always get a mix of reactions depending on how well it takes off but at the end of the day if you don't know something there is genuinely no shame whatsoever in asking other people about it because I feel as if that is something that is pitiful.
00:36:17
Speaker
I wouldn't say demonise but you know there's a lot of people who because they're experts in that field I felt as if especially when it came to upgrading my microphone I have to say there were some people who were
00:36:32
Speaker
very helpful. There was a podcast that I talked to on Twitter called Danny Brown who was absolutely fantastic. He absolutely bared with me when I was asking him about XLR mics and things like that because I had no idea what I needed you know because I was used to the USB mics and it's all about learning but then you get some people who are either quite impatient
00:36:55
Speaker
you know or they're like oh for goodness sake you need this you need that you need blah blah blah and it can get quite overwhelming when you get people like that but as you said it's just it's the fact that as long as you have people there to support you that is just the most important
Podcasting Equipment and Tools
00:37:13
Speaker
thing.
00:37:13
Speaker
I mean, you know, look at the elements of a podcast, right? The microphone. So most people I assume will start out. So when I started out, I just bought a basic one of online retailer. It was fine. But then once I got into it, I thought to myself, no, I want to change. Got one. Really didn't like it at all. I probably didn't do enough research. Went back to the original one. But I said, no, I still want to improve here. Did a lot more research. Asked a lot of questions of people. Got one.
00:37:37
Speaker
I'm really happy with. But like I said, I know if I was to go to the XLR side of things, I wouldn't have a clue where to start. So now there are a couple of people yourself now included who I can go out and ask for opinions on. The recording, the site where you're going to record from, hosting, all these elements that as a newbie and even as a relatively experienced person, if you've only ever used the same one, the first time I changed podcast host,
00:38:01
Speaker
was one of the most nerve wracking things I did you know and when you boil down you say that all the things I've done in life and career and things like that but changing a podcast host had me really nervous because I you know it's something new to me and I hadn't been through it before editing audacity to me is probably like excel I use maybe five percent of it
00:38:20
Speaker
And so when you can get somebody who shows you some tips and tricks and what you can do, it's almost like a revelation and you get really excited that there's another string to your bow. So there's quite a bit of post-production tweaking I do and an element of me actually enjoys doing that because, you know, we've had the conversation before. I actually really love the editing part of the podcast process and it is about crafting something to be as good as you think you can get it. But audacity, like I said, I probably use about 5% of it.
00:38:48
Speaker
So if there's anyone out there willing to teach me more, absolutely let me know. Because I have to say when I started editing, I didn't really know what I was doing for the most part. And then I got to corrupts with audacity and I got semi proficient at the basics. And I always remember one of my friends and co-host, Andrew, he was asking me for help on another project that we were working on, a soon to come out D&D podcast called Stop, Drop and Roll Initiative.
00:39:17
Speaker
And we're really excited to get that out, but the only issue was that Andrew, in all of his generosity, said, I'll help with the editing for it. And I was like, oh, that's great. That means I can focus on Chatsunami. And then, of course, he was messaging me, asking me, he's going to kill me for saying this.
00:39:35
Speaker
Apologies Andrew, love you but he ended up asking me how do you do this? How do you do that? And it's amazing how it's things that because I've been editing the podcast myself for so long it's like second nature but when you're talking someone else through it you're like alright you do this you do that and you do take it for granted I have to say you're like oh yeah you just press that button and of course they're saying well.
00:39:59
Speaker
What's this button? What's that button? And then you have to kind of go through it yourself and be like, all right, is this or that? So, yeah, there's definitely a lot to consider when you're going into podcasting. But speaking of one thing you mentioned there when he talks about podcast hosts, will we go into some slightly spicy and controversial territory here? What controversy have you got?
00:40:21
Speaker
is actually something you brought up when we were talking about recording this episode. And it really sat with me for a good while, honest to goodness, if you want some podcasting, philosophical musings, just message casting views. And honestly, I've got off. What did I say now? I'm worried about what I said to you. Well, it was more when we were talking about Zincaster and, you know, Glory be to Zincaster.
00:40:47
Speaker
as we're recording it on Zincaster, but it was when you were talking about potentially going on to the plan for Zincaster. So for anyone who doesn't know Zincaster, and no I'm not going to play the advert here, Zincaster is a podcasting recording suite and it records two-track audio and I'm getting flashbacks to my reading of the ad. Essentially what it does is it was
00:41:12
Speaker
a fantastic tool for podcasters to be able to come on, record a podcast and they even introduced a hosting feature which is something that I personally use. Now the controversy that came from that was the fact that now unless you host with them, you have to pay to use their service.
00:41:33
Speaker
And I have noticed there is a lot of companies, not just the Encaster, I'm not going to just single them out, but apps like Descript, Podpage as well, which I absolutely love. I've got a Podpage account. There's so many that have popped up in recent years and they want to essentially take your money elsewhere. I think that's fair.
00:41:55
Speaker
Yeah, they want to take your money through subscription services and things like that, which I understand, you know, if it's a business, you want to raise money for the cost of running side service. But at the same time, it almost feels as if it's gatekeeping a little bit of what podcasters could potentially achieve in a
00:42:16
Speaker
I kinda know why Podpage did it because from what I heard, I think their reason to stop their free plan was more to do with people taking advantage of
Monetization and Costs in Podcasting
00:42:27
Speaker
it. A bad apple spoils the bunch and so forth, but have you noticed that though recently that there's been a lot more subscription services and monetisation
00:42:36
Speaker
definitely and you know as you said i fully understand it i mean if you look at the amount of podcasts and podcasters now the day it was coming and a couple of podcasts did call it out in the groups i was in maybe over a year ago saying that the day of the totally free podcast is gonna disappear i think it is a shame for certain things i think it might be a barrier to some people
00:42:57
Speaker
but yeah I mean as you said now to record you've got to pay to host there's a lot I mean I've moved to a free one I think there's a thing I was saying to you beforehand about the insights I don't think the insights I get from it are as good as the one I was on the paid one but that's something I know I can live with for the fact that I'm at least getting that bit free pod page as you said I've got the subscription to it as well I thought I'd do it for a year to see how it is how it goes but I get it like you said I get it I get it I get it
00:43:23
Speaker
I think if I was starting out I think it would have given me bigger cause for concern but because I was 18 months and 2 years in for me it didn't feel like too much of a problem. Basically what I'm saying to myself is do it for the year and then compartmentalize it into 6 month chunks and say right 6 months time where am I at you know how's it going do I go onto a different plan or do I try find a cheap alternative if there is a cost element but yeah I think it's just from the fact that podcasting just is so prolific now or it is so easy
00:43:53
Speaker
get into isn't it? Yeah and I think going back to a point that I was kind of rambling on a bit earlier but I think that definitely has to do with the celebrity and popular influencers out there who, and again I'll say what I've said before in episodes, I don't big grudge people like that, high profile people for starting the podcast. I believe to an extent
00:44:18
Speaker
everyone has a right to start the podcast and feel as if that their voice is being heard on certain things but obviously there's the caveat of that where if they're doing it for malicious purposes, if they're doing it for hateful reasons then no no no no no get out of here.
00:44:34
Speaker
I think the other thing is, just because you see a podcast that's been around for a couple of years doesn't mean we're making money. I was going to say a lot of money, but it doesn't mean we're making money full stop, I think. So this is the thing, this is where now a pastime you then start looking and say, right now it's coming at a cost to me. Now, if you boil it down, it's still going to be cheaper than if you are an intensive gamer or you're always buying the latest technology or the latest
00:44:57
Speaker
iPhones or cell phones etc. But now there is a cost to it and for a lot of us it is a hobby, it is a pastime, it is a passion. You do have those things to think about now. Because it does relate to something that I've said about streaming as well, especially with Twitch streamers where a lot of people will see the more prolific
00:45:18
Speaker
streamers who gain I don't know ridiculous amount of money and they've got thousands of views per stream and then of course someone who wants to get into streaming might say oh I want to do exactly the same thing and they do exactly the same thing they don't get the results
00:45:35
Speaker
and then they complain about well why am I not getting the same views, same money, same wealth and everything but I think you made a great point there. It's the fact that podcasters especially, we are not making at least in the indie sphere, we are not making megabucks doing this, we are doing this at least for indie podcasters and obviously I can't speak for every single indie podcaster out there but I mean not all of us make
00:46:00
Speaker
a lot of money off of this. We're doing this because we enjoy it. We enjoy the company that we've somehow cultivated over the years. For me, I was just very stubborn and I just kept messaging you. And yeah, we do this because we love it essentially. We do this because this is a pastime that we are passionate about and I mean for me personally, I feel as if it's helped my self-confidence grow greatly.
00:46:26
Speaker
over the years but again there's that kind of misconception through some people seeing these other podcasters and maybe companies as well thinking well how much is Joe Bloggs the podcaster going to be willing to spend on this and that's the thing though because for Podpage if you get a subscription to that I mean that is quite expensive
00:46:48
Speaker
I mean, personally, for me, I would say it's a worthwhile investment for what you get out of it. But if you think of if you're paying for that, then you're paying for Zincaster, you're paying for a subscription to Discrit, because this is something I'm curious to hear your thoughts on. The fact that there's a lot of emphasis on AI driven content for
AI in Podcasting
00:47:11
Speaker
podcasts. Now, have you noticed this going around?
00:47:13
Speaker
Yeah, well, in the sense of when I was needing to look at possibly a new recording platform, I do see wherever you look, AI is touted as the feature now everywhere. And it's not something I'm... I'm not saying that I'm against it. I'm not saying that at all. Just at the moment, it's not something for me. And kind of sorry, I do want to go back to something you said earlier, because I know I'm going to keep forgetting if I don't. But just to wrap up a few things that you've said here, and I will come back today.
00:47:39
Speaker
but you know like when you're talking about celebrating, posting, people seeing others and saying successful or begrudging. In the end also I think now more than ever you do also have to put the work in for promoting your podcast and I know you do a great job at that so you know when you are saying oh you've reached a milestone well that's
00:47:57
Speaker
due to the hard work you're putting in because you know you do some it was your lord of the rings month recently the trailer you did for that i mean that was just brilliant the artwork and the tweeting i know it sounds funny but it's a lot of effort to keep on top of that i think for me a resolution for me this year is going to be i think i do have to probably step up my social game a little bit my marketing element a bit
00:48:17
Speaker
And yeah, so I do think you've got to be prepared to put in that work, which you do. Now, the other thing was about, yes, things will always happen. So, you know, I had about a couple of months back, I had like a month from hell with tech and recording. You know, it felt like everything that could go wrong did go wrong for me for a few weeks. But like I said, it's about you've got to bounce back from it and reach out to the support. And regarding the paying for things, I think it's fine. But what you've got to remember is what are you doing this for? And when you talk about again,
00:48:46
Speaker
comparing yourself to other people. Look, if I have an episode that goes viral and if I was to get a million followers and if I was to make megabucks, I'm not going to say I'll turn that down. Absolutely. I think we all have had that dream. But why are you doing it? I'm doing it because I love creating that content. I love doing what I'm doing. I love talking to the people. So deep down, that's why often even for me, you know, like if I've had a bad month of numbers
00:49:09
Speaker
there's a little voice over my shoulder and it's my wife she keeps saying but you do remember why you're doing this because you love doing it and it is a mental sort of slap around the face to say yeah i'm doing this because i enjoy doing it and then whatever happens around it let it happen positive or not positive i think that was something i want to say that that for me i think that's really important to remember too is it now coming back to the ai side of things yeah absolutely and i think it's an evolution isn't it and
00:49:33
Speaker
ironically in that week's time i'm going to be recording an episode about ai and this is going to feature because it just feels like it's everywhere isn't it ai is the buzzword and again it's not for me at the moment i do love having total control about what goes in and how i craft an episode that again it'll be when people that are far better at it than me can help me understand what it can do for me
00:49:55
Speaker
Yeah, ever since AI has come into the equation, I feel as if a lot more companies have definitely put their foot down and gone, oh yeah, we need to focus particularly on the AI aspect. And I have to say, not to call them out overly, but I know GoodPods were in a minor kerfuffle about this. I don't know if you saw that.
00:50:20
Speaker
Well, they were putting up descriptions of people's podcasts. The thing is about it, and again, I've got no proof that they did it or they didn't, but let's face it. Reading my description, and I think I posted a few in the podcast chat. Yes, you did, yeah, yeah. And you were reading them and you were just like, there is no way. Is that me?
00:50:41
Speaker
Yeah, because I can't remember who it was. I think it was Sean, actually. Yeah, he was reading his and I can't remember what he said, but it was something that was completely different compared to what he was talking about. I mean, did he say something about gardening or something?
00:50:57
Speaker
Do you know what I think it might have done? I think it might have done. And for anyone who doesn't know, Review It Yourself does a lot of film reviews and they do their sub-series, Defend It Yourself and things like that and Visit It Yourself, some great sub-series. But let me tell you, there is no garden force or garden yourself
00:51:19
Speaker
Well, let's see what 2024 brings. True, true. Sean, if you're listening to this, yeah, get that troll out and start digging for podcast ideas. But yeah, it was just, it was absolutely bizarre. We were all laughing in the chat going, what the hell was this? Going back to the idea of AI and podcasting, I think
00:51:37
Speaker
there is potential there but at the same time I don't think, and again I could be completely wrong because I don't use AI for my own podcast but it certainly shows I have to say, but for a lot of these plans and things especially with Zencaster they've got a ridiculously priced subscription where it's like for so much money a month it's like a couple of hundred a month I think.
00:52:03
Speaker
where the software will scan through your content, generate clips for you, and then it will post it on social media, which I think is a fantastic idea. That thing, that sounds really cool actually, yeah. I mean, I won't be paying that price yet, but that is a really cool feature.
00:52:18
Speaker
Yeah, because I think a lot of hosting platforms and things like that, I think they are aiming in that direction that they want to streamline the process of content creation. Because I mean, even Headliner, I absolutely love Headliner for anyone who doesn't know, that's an app.
00:52:35
Speaker
that when you publish an episode it automatically publishes onto YouTube and I think that's fantastic. It's a great program, admittedly a little bit laggy but still a great program but that's even got a subscription service and you're kind of like right here we go again with the subscriptions and I get that they have some very hungry podcast children to feed at home.
00:52:57
Speaker
everything and have to keep the lights on but yeah all heads up to that and as i said in terms of AI content it is good but at the same time because i don't know about you i get the messages about SEO content and things like that
00:53:13
Speaker
Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. Clear bots, clear scammers and things like that.
Podcasting Tools and Techniques
00:53:17
Speaker
They're like, oh, we'll boost your visibility and everything. And it's like, no, you won't. You'll either take my money and run, or you'll do such an obvious job of it that people will be like, now hold on a minute. Satsui didn't have a million listeners overnight. There must be something that's going wrong here.
00:53:34
Speaker
I think the message is, ultimately, look, any hobby, any past time has a cost, right? Whether it's, as I said, gaming, if you fish in a sport, there's always a cost, right? There's always a cost. I think it's what it gives you. So like I said, at the moment, I'm on the Zencaster plan. I've got to deal with it. So it's helped for the first six months. But as you said, there are some little things, extras that I'm getting from it that are helpful. Like I had an episode where, for whatever reason, a guest's audio didn't download properly. But yeah, you can get the internet backup copies from them.
00:54:04
Speaker
there is a sound board and I know you can get a sound board elsewhere. I think I used it for the first time in the episode you came on and I think I scared the hell out of you, didn't I? I think with it. Or you did, yeah. I still have nightmares about that, yeah.
00:54:16
Speaker
Yeah I know you can get sailboard elsewhere but that's included in it and it's actually helping me when I'm doing certain things so I think what you've got to do is absolutely look at what you get for it and does it help and shop around. If you are a solo pod there are choices where it's not going to cost you anything and as I said I'm on a free host, microphones I know people that have used almost like a headset they use for work
00:54:38
Speaker
for teams calls at work and they've sounded really really good. I think there is also an element with what equipment you've really got. I guess what I'm trying to say is we should have expected the age of the totally free ride to disappear but there are options out there and just see what the paid option gives you. Like I said I'm for now the level amount I'm going to stay to the lower end of those because I'm still enjoying it more as a passion project.
00:55:02
Speaker
I'm not going to say hobby because I do love doing this thing. You know, more than anything, if I had to stop doing it tomorrow, I'd be quite upset. But at the moment, yeah, I think if I see what the next evolution, the big evolution of the podcast will be, it might be right while I need something slightly different. The AI, for example, who knows? Because you make a great point. In fact, no, you don't make a great point. You make several great points there.
00:55:26
Speaker
Thank you. The fact is that if you're listening to this and you're thinking, should I get into podcasting? You know, is it going to be too expensive? Really, as you said before, the only thing you really need is some kind of computer or audio recording software that you can manage to record onto and then upload. Because I think, and I could be wrong because it's been a while, but I think you can potentially record through your phone if you have
00:55:53
Speaker
Spotify for podcasters, formerly known as Anker, that makes it very accessible for podcasters just to record on their phone. And I have to say, there's a lot of people who do say that. They say, oh, I just record on my laptop or on the microphone on my earphones or even through my phone.
00:56:14
Speaker
phone, or you know, you don't have to have expensive equipment. Like right now, and I'm going to give a couple of shout outs here, and I swear to God this isn't sponsored or anything, but right now I'm using a Sontronic mic, and I have to say I'm enjoying getting to grips with it. I also have a TGI mic.
00:56:35
Speaker
that I use for portable recording, like when I did the ACME Comic Con episode, I took those along. What I actually do love seeing though, see when I'm reading people's responses to tweets to say things like, oh, how did they evolve as podcasters? How did they evolve as content creators? I love it when they turn around and they'll say something like, oh, I only started on my phone or oh, I only started in
00:57:01
Speaker
really low-end microphone or whatever because the fact is, and I've said this before, but podcasting isn't a static thing. Podcasting is very much a dynamic thing. It is going to evolve. You're going to change over time, not just with your equipment. If you're confident enough and financially stable enough to up
00:57:21
Speaker
upgrade your equipment by all means go for it but don't go for something like the sure insert letters and numbers here type of microphones or because don't get me wrong the sure microphones look pardon the pun sure damn good but at the same time if you're just starting out you know you don't want to dive into the deep end too early just find your feet and find your immunity and as a kind of closing point to that and I will be asking for your answer Dan don't you
00:57:50
Speaker
my advice for new podcasters coming into the scene is take your time to find your community because it can be daunting as we've said throughout this episode it can be daunting to come into this new space and feel as if you're overwhelmed with people yelling at you about XLR microphones what the best hosting platform is or how you should market your podcast because that is something that really irritates me slightly off topic but I
00:58:19
Speaker
hate it when people try to offer like a silver bullet for podcasting because at the end of the day I know I don't look cool enough I'm giving advice and tips here but my advice and of course your advice won't apply to everybody out there and I cannot stand seeing when people go on and they'll say I think you should do xyz that's going to guarantee that your podcasts
00:58:43
Speaker
is going to be successful, but that doesn't take into account the type of podcast that you're producing. For example, the marketing of an audio drama is not going to match up with a variety of podcasts like yourself or me, so there has to be that degree of nuance
00:59:02
Speaker
But obviously the basics out there like get a quiet space to record, learn the basics about editing, you know that's all universal but when you dive deeper into the success it dangerously, and again this isn't targeting anyone in particular but it does skirt the edges between legitimate advice and snake oil advice.
Advice for New Podcasters
00:59:23
Speaker
Yeah, because I'm going to be honest, fortunately, I haven't seen too much of that on social media lately, but I do remember about a year ago, it was prolific, wasn't it? Almost like, yeah, $100 course or whatever, and I'll teach you how to be the best podcaster you can. It might work for some people, but I would actually say, as you said, I mean, who am I to give advice out, right? But what I would say is, especially if you're starting up, yeah, you don't have to spend an absolute fortune. My first microphone, it was like ยฃ30, ยฃ30.
00:59:52
Speaker
Amazon and the thing is when I go back to the first set of episodes right my episodes they don't sound particularly great but there's a couple of things there one was I think I did rush into it I think I should have taken a bit more time to get used to it and I think that's the key thing for me is get used to the process but also secondly we evolve and as good as I remember I
01:00:12
Speaker
thought I sounded at the time. Yeah I was nervous, I was fairly stiff, you could tell how I sounded. Almost linking back to your first question again about how it felt. That's what I'm also saying is your podcast, your style, your attitude will change. So at the start I was very not scripted but in terms of what I wanted to say I bought
01:00:32
Speaker
things but in the last six, seven months I've had the confidence to have more conversational podcasts which is what I want to do and I'd like to think it's come across as that. So things will change, priorities will change, needs will change. Just I would say do what you need to do at the start to be confident in yourself. Know what you want to do. If you've got an audience that you know you want to target brilliant or if you know you've got a subject you want to target, just work on that. I think once you work on your own confidence
01:00:58
Speaker
and the content, like I said, support, friendship, followers, listens, they'll come but you've got to just be happy with what you're doing. I mean not to coin the field of dreams quote to say you record it and they will come. I would agree with that. It is definitely finding your feet as not just a podcaster but as a person because one thing that I have to admit does semi-annoy me and again it's maybe not a
01:01:23
Speaker
purposeful thing but this again goes for streaming where although I don't show my face at least as of 2024 I don't show my face when I'm podcasting or when I'm streaming I usually use like a red panda avatar a because red panda is a
01:01:41
Speaker
cute but at the same time when I use that avatar I don't portray myself as a character and I feel as if a lot of people when they're hiding behind the microphone like I am they'll say oh I have to pretend to be like this person I'm not a wacky co-host or you know a wacky character that has a very bold personality and I have to say in my experience anyway I feel as if people will burn out really fast if they kept that up whereas if you're just honest
01:02:10
Speaker
about who you are, what your message is, then it will come through. It will definitely come through because people can tell listeners out there, and I'm not just saying this because chat tsunami listeners are the best in the world next to casting views. People can tell they're intelligent enough to know that if you're a persona or a character, just be yourself. And I'm gonna be brutally honest here, the first couple episodes, they're gonna be rough.
01:02:36
Speaker
I scream every time someone says to me, oh listen to your podcast and then they sign the screenshot of episode one and I'm like oh sweet Jesus no, oh no please no. But that's part of the journey right and that's part of the learning, even it might be episode 120, 101 might not be a great episode.
01:02:54
Speaker
But we're going to have those times where it's not going to be quite right or something's going to go wrong or it's not going to be the most vintage episode. But we all go through that. Anything, even TV shows and movie franchises, there's always the elements where they drop the ball or something. But as long as you can bounce back from it and don't take it too personally and understand if
01:03:14
Speaker
and again this is if you genuinely think something's gone wrong do you know why and can you work on it? I mean the reason why I say if you genuinely think something is I had an episode recently where I had a tech issue beforehand the audio I was distraught when because I had a first time guest on it wasn't there all joke it was my audio wasn't brilliant because of a mistake that had happened and I put a disclaimer at the start etc and I was talking to someone recently and they said you know it didn't actually sound that bad but to me it was and
01:03:42
Speaker
having that validation that they said, look, do you know what? It isn't actually that bad. Again, it's kind of a hammered home that just, you know, you are going to be your own worst critic. So as long as you are genuinely assessing yourself and if something does go wrong, what I learned from that was there was a few things that if I have a reset or there's an update or you change plan on an application, go into the settings and just make sure because it'd been default for about 18 months and then my defaults in the application had changed. You know, it means I'd get on a few minutes earlier and I'd do double check.
01:04:12
Speaker
And yeah, so that's the learning, but mistakes are going to happen. Not everything is always going to be the way you think it's going to turn out, but we live and learn, right? To coin another clichรฉ phrase, but we live and learn. I have done that. I've been through my fair share of mistakes with podcasting as well, because I don't want to feel left out.
01:04:30
Speaker
But oh no, I totally know what you mean. It actually reminds me of something one of my friends and co-hosts, Gregacy, had told me. I think it might have been, it was either our third year anniversary episode, or it might have been the Patreon exclusive episode, and no that's not a cheeky wink by the way, but coughpatreon.com forward slash chat tsunami cough. I remember he was saying it's almost a bit like
01:04:56
Speaker
you know when you're very hypercritical about your own content you say oh it doesn't sound great or oh this went wrong and it's a bit like when you're driving a car and you make a mistake on the road but you're driving with someone who has no idea how to drive a car so you make a mistake and then you profusely apologise and say oh my goodness i'm so sorry i'm so sorry and then they'll turn around and go what were you talking about you know i didn't notice anything because they are not as privy to this world as your i might be
01:05:26
Speaker
Really good point, really good point. And it goes back to what I said. For me, my podcast is a real passion project and in my head, I just want it to be the best I can. And if I think I haven't, I get really upset with myself about it. But it's true, what you're saying is I've said to a couple of people, it might've been even someone in the collective at one point, but I know I've said to a couple of people that, look, often people listening, there are certain podcasts I listen to because I like
Connection Beyond Content
01:05:50
Speaker
the hosts.
01:05:50
Speaker
and it might be a subject or an episode or something I don't have as much interest in other episodes or other podcasts but I really like the host and so I'm listening to them so they might think they've had a bad episode I'm enjoying listening to the host the emotion they're putting through the feeling they're putting through if it's two or three people the chemistry between them so sometimes it's not even the content you gotta remember that like you said or we've said throughout this we're putting ourselves out there and sometimes it's that draws the people in
01:06:18
Speaker
I mean going back to making mistakes in the podcast it is so easy to blame yourself for things that you might have had an oversight on or you know just some mistakes that you do as you say the love and learn from because I remember I
01:06:35
Speaker
think it was for the two year anniversary episode and I did it in person with again my very good friend Craigie C and we had such a good episode but the thing I felt brought it down was because we were trying to work
01:06:51
Speaker
using two separate microphones but what I didn't realize was the echo was so bad so his microphone was picking up me and it was a single track audio it wasn't split up so I was absolutely devastated at that because I was like it's such a good episode but the quality isn't what I wanted it and of course people were saying oh no it's great it's fine and I think now it still has like a couple definitely
01:07:15
Speaker
way over 100 plays as of this episode but you know I was still annoyed at myself because I never picked up on it you know and that is something that you have to unfortunately come to terms with because otherwise you wouldn't have any content or an episode to put out and the only example like the very nuclear option where I didn't
01:07:36
Speaker
published an episode because of its quality was when my friend Andrew and I did an episode on the anime film Perfect Blue. To this day it's one of my favourite episodes of all time but what many people might not know out there is the fact that we had to re-record that entire
01:07:54
Speaker
entire episode because the audio quality was just that bad. And I think because we did that, we got a better episode out of it, both in terms of audio quality and just the discussion as a whole. So the thing is, and again, this will be one of my favorite points, I swear, but make mistakes. That's what I'm trying to get at here. Don't be afraid to make mistakes in podcasting. Don't be afraid to say, oh, maybe this podcast isn't
01:08:19
Speaker
perfect because I have to say, I don't know about you Dan, but I am very much a perfectionist when it comes to editing and things. That's why I take so time long to publish these episodes and I'll publish an episode and I'll feel like, oh my god, I am the worst podcaster in existence. I have put out a terrible episode. It's subpar. It's, you know, I've failed. I've brought Dishoner to all of the podcasting ancestors.
01:08:47
Speaker
out there and then the weird thing is when you get that positive reinforcement of people saying oh I really enjoyed that episode or oh that's one of my favourite episodes and I'm like oh well that didn't seem as bad as I thought it would be and again it goes back to the idea of finding your audience as it were and it is going to take ages it's going to take a long time if you've not got a public presence before going into podcasting you are going to have
01:09:14
Speaker
maybe slight difficulties trying to get off the ground but seriously don't be dismayed at that that's all say don't be dismayed at having a rocky star a rocky episode because let's face it it's a badge of honor isn't it the one star club and today rocky episodes a week or every so often
01:09:33
Speaker
And like I said, look, the issues could happen at any point. So I think I had a pretty good run in terms of only when, say, I've changed microphone and you're getting used to the new equipment or it's got new software or how it acts with your laptop. And like I said to you, the month from how I had with various things, that's come two years after I started. So maybe I just had a full sense of security going along so it can happen any time. And with tech and with internet-based things, these things can always happen
01:10:00
Speaker
is again it's just about trying to take it in your stride and is there anything you can take from it. I think there's one other really cute bit of advice I would offer especially for us podcasts based in the UK. If you are doing podcasts with people in the States or anywhere just make sure you've clarified the time zone. You've remembered what the time zone difference is before you come to record.
01:10:22
Speaker
Yeah I cannot emphasize that enough. I have to say some of my best episodes have been with people from, oh goodness those were like, I had an amazing interview with a Australian musician slash content creator. I've talked to people from the States, from
01:10:40
Speaker
Canada, from Switzerland as well, you know all of these absolutely amazing places. But what I will say is I 100% agree with you for the love of God and make sure you know what time you're jumping into because nobody wants to be binge watching, I don't know, the latest drama on Netflix and then you get a pin on your phone and it's like, hey are we not supposed to be recording right now? And you're like, oh my god we are! And then you have to run up and get set up
01:11:06
Speaker
especially with the amount of time zones in the states recently I've done it with a couple of people they've been in different time zones and then when you're throwing the clock change and the fact that it's not universal around the world that some happen a couple of weeks later than others I know it sounds like a silly thing but it's yeah if you do do that regularly yeah just make sure you've written it down
01:11:24
Speaker
Funny enough, I did a collaboration with the absolutely fantastic podcaster, Runa Friedman-Watts from the Better Go Daddy podcast. And I remember when I was trying to schedule an interview with her, we were doing it through, I think it was like Google calendars or something. I remember when I put it through, it was coming up as I think one o'clock or two o'clock my time, but it was coming up an hour before
01:11:50
Speaker
for our time. Although it wasn't really matching what the reality was that I was putting in the correct time for myself but for some reason Google hadn't caught up yet so it was like oh no no you're still an hour behind for America and I was like no not Google why would you make me lie like this?
01:12:10
Speaker
Why would you lie? We got it sorted. I knew it was an absolutely fantastic episode in its own right, but I was just so frustrated when it came to that and I totally agree with you. That is a very good
Closing Remarks and Gratitude
01:12:23
Speaker
point. Unless you're a time traveller, make sure you get your time sorted for that. Seeing that note, speaking of time, honestly Dan, thank you so, so much.
01:12:32
Speaker
Before you wrap up, can I just say something? Do you want to say or shall I say to the listeners what you said about this podcast before we started talking about how long it would last? Well, I said it would be over by Christmas, which technically is true. You said, oh, we'll do a quick one. We'll do a quick one. I said, when the two of us start talking, it won't be a quick one. You know what? That is a very good point.
01:12:54
Speaker
I'm joking. I love it. It's always great talking to you. It's always a pleasure. Thank you for having me on. I think it's a great thing that our conversations divert and digress like it has done. Always the case, to be fair. I always love the conversation part, to be honest, but I just hate when I go back to edit it. And I'm like, oh my God, I'm going to have to spend ages editing.
01:13:17
Speaker
Which is no fault of either of us, but you know, it keeps me off the streets. That's it. If not, I would be in a hoodie, I'd be clicking my fingers like passerby. I don't know if that's like a gangster thing or West Side Story thing. I never got to the end of it. We'll be breaking out into dance. I mean, those are the worst thugs. I mean, thugs with hand-eye coordination. I mean, come on.
01:13:40
Speaker
Again, Jan, thank you so much for not only being the first episode of 2024, but also being the very first guest as part of the Podpack Collective. Thank you, thank you. And before we wrap up and we shout out the amazing Podpack Collective members, don't worry, I'll do that.
01:13:59
Speaker
Where can these lovely listeners at home find your content in particular? Pretty much on all the podcast platforms around, just look for casting views. You'll see a little cartoon image of me. If I'm not on one that you know of, let me know and I'll get myself on there. So yeah, if you want to do something lovely, find a place where I'm on and follow me on there. Same with social media, just look
01:14:21
Speaker
casting views across all of them, castingviewspod at gmail.com if you want to drop me an email and yeah if i can just take a few seconds yeah absolutely always looking for new guests to jump on i've got a monthly series now where i'll bring a guest on to create the perfect dinner party with celebrities brilliant way of just coming on and having a chat so yeah casting views across socials and podcast platforms
01:14:43
Speaker
If you want to listen to Dan and I talk about other things such as our further thoughts on podcasting, as well as our episode on the indie game as Dusk Falls, you can check it out on our website, Chatsunami.com. I also want to thank our Pandora Impatrons, Robotic Battle Tools students on there. Thank you.
01:15:02
Speaker
so so much for supporting the channel and if you want to check out what our patreon asked to offer you can check us out at patreon.com forward slash chat tsunami as a first for the year and a first for the outro i want to shout out my amazing podpack collective members of course we've got dan at casting views on twitter slash x and if you want to follow the others we have nerdstalgic
01:15:27
Speaker
at their nostalgic under slash pod. We've got review yourself, at yourself review. We've got the two girls, one reusable cup podcast, at 2GE, one reusable cup. Last but certainly not least, Seismic Cinema. I'm so sorry I keep leaving you to last. You are last on the list.
01:15:46
Speaker
it's not me purposely putting you at the bottom there you can check out Seismic Cinema at Seismic Cinema but until next time thank you so so much for listening stay safe stay awesome and most importantly stay hydrated