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Fusion...HA! Discussing Dragon Ball Z: Fusion Reborn! || Dragon Ball Month
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In the year 2024, a red panda, a wrestler and a chibi co-host power up to defeat the forces of evil in Dragon Ball Month! From transformations and fusions to live action and musings of living in this world, you will not want to miss this month!
In this episode, Satsu is joined by Martin MacAlistair to review the film Dragon Ball Z: Fusion Reborn. But after nearly 30 years, does this film still hold up? Or has it's fusion time ran out? And what is up with that B plot?! Welcome to Dragon Ball Month!
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Transcript
Facing a Formidable Opponent
00:00:03
Speaker
He's too tough to defeat. You know what this means? Exactly. It's time for... Please don't say Super Duper McAllister 4. No, I wasn't gonna say that. We're gonna have to fuse together. Are you ready? If there's no other way to defeat him, then I guess so. Are you sure you don't want me to take my shot off? Just do the damn dance! Fusion! Ha!
00:00:28
Speaker
Ah ha! Now fear the mate of Sa-Sartan. Maxinami? Eh, we'll work on the name
Dragon Ball Month Introduction
00:00:35
Speaker
later. Welcome to the Dragon Ball 1.
00:00:40
Speaker
Hello everybody and welcome to the second episode of Dragon Ball Month. My name is Satsunami and joining me on this fusion adventure is another and the one and only champion himself, Martin McAllister. Martin, welcome back. Thank you for having me on to talk about not a colouring fusion this time but a Dragon Ball fusion. And what a fusion that is. Thank you all for listening. on I'm kidding. We can't get out of the episode that easy
Iconic Transformations and Film Selection
00:01:07
Speaker
unfortunately. So last week we discussed the iconic imagery of the Dragon Ball transformations. Now this week we are toning it down a bit because our amazing panel audience decided that we should watch this film to review. So why do you hate it? No I'm kidding.
00:01:27
Speaker
At least he's sure. Well, actually, true, true. So I put out a poll on Twitter slash X where I was saying, what film do you want us to watch? And I chose between, quite honestly, a variety. So I had Lord Slogg there. There was no love for Lord Slogg, unfortunately. I put The Revenge of Cooler, which I think got a little bit of love I want to say. There was Fusion Reborn of course which is why we're here today and then there was also the Broly movie which I think came second surprisingly. But before we go into talking about Fusion Reborn and this very iconic film, what is your history with the films themselves?
00:02:08
Speaker
Yeah, so I vaguely mentioned it, I alluded to it in the last episode but when we reached Teenage Years, the internet was getting more and more prevalent and what was happening was there was a lot less copyright on the internet as there was now. Ah, the good old days. The good old days. Everything was free. I was incriminating myself, did I cut that? No, I didn't. Everything was available on things like YouTube, obviously Dailymotion and then there was Google had their own service called, was it just Google Video, I think at the time? Yeah, something like that. Now it's called YouTube. Now all free of them are called YouTube, I think.
00:02:38
Speaker
ah back in the day before they'd figured out copyright all the movies were sort of available across these platforms split up into lots of parts and awful quality and that's kind of how I watched all the Dragon Ball movies. I think maybe I should probably go buy some of them now but that was how I watched them all when I was younger and the Dragon Ball Z movies in particular are quite funny because they cover things that would never cover in the show. This movie in particular, I think I want to talk about this in a bit more detail later but this movie was one that I think everyone saw out because this particular fusion in this movie was such a big deal. So that's kind of my history with the movies,
Dragon Ball Movies in the International Context
00:03:07
Speaker
what about you? Yeah I think I was probably the same because do you remember on YouTube there would always be that one channel that would split the movies? And by movies I mean anime movies for legal reasons there. But you know it would be like to avoid when YouTube were cracking down in the kind of copyright. They would have a huge picture of the anime that you were watching and then have the actual videos like a tiny box in the corner.
00:03:32
Speaker
I would be like, part one, part two. It was also mirrored, they liked to flip things. That was avoiding the algorithm for a while before the computers got smart. Yeah, I kind of caught clips of it I have to say online because I genuinely don't think, and again this is our kind of experience as opposed to the rest of the world, but we didn't really get them in cinemas did we? No, certainly not until the newest Broly movie have I ever thought we'd seen any or been aware of any Dragon Ball movies in cinema. I think you actually sent me a clip or a segment from Wikipedia that was to do with these movies getting any kind of international release and it was like the mid-noughties by the time they actually came over here and they were coupled with other movies and box sets and stuff. So as far as I'm aware it wasn't really, maybe resurrection of F might have been in the cinema for like a day or something but certainly nothing from the ZU. because this is something else that I brought up to you when we were talking about, of course, the iconic opening Rock the Dragon. Most of the clips from that are all from different Dragon Ball Z films. You've got clips from The Tree of Might, from The World's Strongest, from I think Dead Zone was the other one. It was all clips from that, but when you actually watch the show, none of them were there. you're like, what the hell's going on? So yeah, it wasn't really great but something that I found interesting and as you were saying there, I'm sure this was the first, at least in America, that got a limited theatre release. It is a weird film to lead off with because you would think it would be something like Broly or The Revenge of Cooler or, okay maybe not Lord Slug, but Yeah, it's really strange and there was a video, I can't remember the name of the guy so I apologise, but there was a video on YouTube of a guy who was going through every single film debunking how they couldn't be part of the timeline.
Canon and Timeline Confusions
00:05:25
Speaker
It's weird that these films live in their own bubble, isn't it? Yeah, this is a wee segue story, but me and you, we went to go see the first two My Hero Academia movies in cinemas. They came out, so two separate films. They were kind of made by the same writer that did the show. And his concept was like, it was really nice to reward viewers with something they wouldn't get a chance to see in the show. So like a little bit of fan service, but structured in the sake of a movie. And so it's two events happened across those two films that are like fan moments. If you're not reading that, but it'll never happen in the actual show. And I think the Dragon Ball movies kind of flutter between that. This one in particular covers that.
00:05:59
Speaker
My head academia once fit vaguely within the canon. There's obviously some kind of time wibble wobbleness, but it vaguely fits within the canon. Well, these are just, they'll be in the middle of another arc and all of a sudden, you know, something else is going on. there was a I was actually looking on the wiki for this film and there's like eight potential places this film could happen, but there's always something wrong in each of them. It's dead funny. So it's like, they just went, ah, we'll just try our best and make it fit What I also find hilarious when I was doing the research is if you look us up in Google, the first search from Reddit as Fusion Reborn is not a good movie.
00:06:33
Speaker
And that is just hilarious to me thinking that someone out there was like, I really wanted a good movie, but I don't know why. I have a question for you. Oh do tell. What's the cut off for this being a movie? Right, because this is 51 minutes long, including credits. So this must be about 45 minutes. This is a double, maybe a triple episode if you're counting the shorter Dragon Ball episodes, but this is a short, short movie. Do you know what's even wilder? The fact that I've recorded Chatsanami episodes that are longer than this film. Yeah, that's even with me editing it down. and everything. So it's just, it's absolutely wild because I'm actually surprised that this wasn't counted as a TV film. Yeah, TV special or something. Yeah, because I say that because they do have a lot of Dragon Ball, maybe not as much as the films, but they do have a lot of TV specials that they very much emphasise that it's a TV special. For example, the Trunks Backstory one. I think that was a TV special. Yeah, TV special. Yeah, that's not a problem, but it really should be because it's such a great story. Whereas, do you know what this is? This is the anime equivalent of this could have been an email.
00:07:43
Speaker
this literally could have been an arc or even a filler arc or something. because Even the GT, they have ah it's like a film at the end of the series where it's like Goku's great-great-great-whatever grandson and he's trying to find the dragon and balls to rescue Pan and everything. I mean that was interesting, I really enjoyed that for what it was, but why is this considered a film?
00:08:09
Speaker
I don't know what the word movie means. i I'm gonna be honest, right? It sounds stupid to say it loud, but is it just because it made it into the cinema? Is that what it is? I don't know. I don't have an answer, but it's just a baffling thing that a film is 50 minutes long. You know, I'm totally not googling what qualifies a film. Yeah, what is a movie? What is a film? Oh, interesting. And this is my thorough research of all of this. According to the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences, the American film institute and the British film institute, a feature film runs for more than 40 minutes, while the Screen Actors Guild asserts that a feature's running time is 60 minutes or longer. Ah, so that's why it didn't win any awards in the Screen Actors Guild. Well, there's many reasons it didn't. So that's why it didn't win any awards. And the screen act is good. Yeah, let's go with that cover story. Is it because Wallace and Gromit Kirsten and Weirraffit came out like it? I love that meme. Oh, I love that. For anyone who doesn't know, a Wallace and Gromit film bit a Studio Ghibli film and it will never not be funny. Was it Howl's Moving Castle? I want to say Howl's, yeah. I'm sure it was. Purely because I think the year before they was protesting because of the Iraq war.
00:09:22
Speaker
went and the next year and it got bit out by Wallace and Grobitt. I thought it was Hilarious Enemy. Yeah, they got into the technicality, we can safely say, but will we get into this film?
Plot Set-up for Fusion Reborn
00:09:33
Speaker
Let's get into it. And without any further ado, we will be too f together and we'll be right back after these messages. welcome to shatanami a variety podcast that discusses topic from gaming and films to anime and general interest Previously on Chatsunami, we've analysed what makes a good horror game, conducted a retrospective on Pierce Brosnan's runs James Bond and listened to us take deep dives into both the Sonic and Halo franchises. Also, if you're an anime fan, then don't forget to check us out on our sub-series, Chatsunani, where we dive into the world of anime. So far, we've reviewed things like Death Note, Princess Mononoke, and the hit Beyblade series. If that sounds like your cup of tea, then you can check us out on Spotify, iTunes, and all good podcast apps. As always, stay safe, stay awesome, and most importantly, stay hydrated.
00:10:22
Speaker
Hello, we are Two Girls, One Reusable Cup, a podcast all about living a low waste lifestyle in your twenties, hosted by Beth and Marie. We are just your average consumer trying to make the best decisions for people and planet, and we mess up a lot.
00:10:38
Speaker
And the next morning had a massive hangover and I was like, where's my reusable straw? No, my prized possession. You know, Too Faced is like one of the jumping off points of this podcast and it also was one of the jumping off points of my very large dentist bill. And they put it in just a standard plastic cup with a plastic lid. But don't worry folks, they put a paper straw in it, which I think I slurped twice and then it disintegrated.
00:11:04
Speaker
Wait, you've never learned how to ride a bike? So kudos to my dad, he tried to teach me and I was just a pain. I love how unforgiving you are of the fact that this was 1800 meters above sea level, but where was my teach? Grab a cup of tea, sit down with us and come and join the Sustainable Support Group.
00:11:24
Speaker
Well, that fusion didn't last long, did it? Anyway, Fusion Reborn, which is the 12th film of the E. Well, I would have said 12 out of 13, but I don't know if that includes the Dragon Ball films on top of the Dragon Ball Z films. No idea. No idea. Not a clue. I'm not as much of a nerd as I thought I was. I'm so sorry. You should be ashamed. Anyway, that's the end of the episode if you'd like. ah No, no, no. Hold on. Hold on. So then, spoken to you. Satsu, would you like to recap the plot of this film?
00:11:54
Speaker
ah I was so sure you were about to ask me to do it there. Oh no, Dragon Ball Fusion Reborn is a geopolitical thriller that spans across two worlds. I don't know why this film was made but it spoke to me.
00:12:08
Speaker
It spoke to me on a spiritual level. It was very transcendent and made me cry. but It was magical. It's like, you know those weird films that Emma Stone keeps doing recently? It's like that. But for anime, it's just, you don't know what's going on. You don't know why. ah just mad This is your exact review of The Pan's Labyrinth. Well, that is true, yeah. I've got my hands up with my eyes on it and Anyway, next week, Pan's No, it all seriousness. It's supposed to take place, again, it's all muddled because it's supposed to take place during the Booze saga, but that doesn't make sense and whatnot, let's not get bogged down in the technicalities of that, but basically it revolves around a spiritual Amazon warehouse an issue where something blows up, a lot of spiritual dimensions get trapped in jelly beans. So they send Goku and his goat of the afterlife, Paikon, amazing character. They send them to fix the issue. They have to fight a big jelly bean baby who turns into a stabby baby and then he beats Vegeta to fight him. while all all of this is going on, and hell opens up and all of these cool previous villains pop out and they get dealt with in like two seconds including and it's all of the old movie villains. So you've got the henchmen for Cooler, you've got Frieza, you've got Bojack. What's interesting and I don't know how true this is because I didn't examine every frame here but apparently Cooler is on the poster for this film but he's not in the actual film.
00:13:44
Speaker
So I don't know how much false advertising that constitutes as, but yeah. So hell breaks loose and you think, oh that's a cool B-plot, you know where's that gonna go? Get solved in two minutes. And then they replace it with, and I'm saying this right to both not incriminate ourselves but also for family friendly purposes, the bad mustache man of the 40s. I'm selling this film. According to Wikipedia he's referred to as the dictator. So obviously Charlie Chaplin fans. Did you also know that this film was banned in several countries because of this character? I am unsurprised to hear that. In fact they went as far as to actually censor those scenes. The runtime of that film must have been like 30 minutes in those countries.
00:14:26
Speaker
And that's the thing though, you wouldn't have missed anything. We'll get on to him later. So yeah, you've got a B plot of Goten and Trunks fighting Mustache Man. And then, as you said, you get the cool fusion at the end with Vegeta and Goku are fighting Star Baby and the afterlife. And then
Key Confrontations and Battles
00:14:44
Speaker
everything goes back to normal. They won the day. Apologies it's spoilers, but you know what? It's 50 minutes if you haven't watched it by now.
00:14:52
Speaker
i pause go what to though You could genuinely spend more time in the Chatsanami episode. What are you doing? Anyway, would you think that's a succinct summary? I do. The wee person, I think the way we tackle this is we start with the C plot, go to the B plot and go to the A plot. Let me guess, is the C plot Mr Satan fighting zombies? No, I actually forgot about that. Let's start with the D plot, we'll go to the C plot.
00:15:15
Speaker
yeah has scenes followed with one of the best scenes in the film actually. I don't know if that really is like, oh no one can see me fight these guys that I can manage, let me go to you know, I'm warning. Let's go find some cameras. Yeah, oh it's so funny. That's his only bet in the film but it's so good. But yeah, so what was the C plot? Basically you vaguely mentioned it but Gohan, I want to just talk about this because it's so weird and obviously in light of what happens in Super with Frieza coming back but we have this scene where Gohan and Videl go out to save everyone and they confront Frieza. Gohan flies through them all and punches Frieza in the stomach beats him in one hit and then that's them. That's them gun for the film. We don't see the two of them again. No, you see them at the end. Yes, I was going to say there's a joke at the end, which I want to bring this up because I did want to say this to the end but I'm just putting it up now because we're here. There's a joke at the end that Goten and Trunks saw them kissing during this apocalypse and that's what they're all laughing about. That was it. He went and punched Fries in the stomach and then made it with his girlfriend while the world was ending. What a chat. Yeah, it was kind of an amazing time. He had the best 50 minutes of anyone. Jesus, how long was that kissing?
00:16:16
Speaker
Everyone else was fighting for their life and he's like, nah, I've got better things to do. I'm going to bring this up a couple of times during this film. I know it's a shonen, I know it's a shonen movie. We don't talk about consequences in shonen, but like seeing the man that murdered people in front of you when you were four years old again and having to fight him, feels like that deserves a little bit of follow-up and not just, that was it, you know, and he punches him or something and that's the end of that and we don't see go on again now.
00:16:40
Speaker
It's so, so weird. Yeah, and that's the thing though. The Thunder's a different past villains there as well. You know, it's a bit similar to what GT did. You know, there was that arc where everyone from Hell escaped, more or less. There was Nappa, and I mean Goku was trapped with Frieza and Cell and Hell, but they did kind of something similar. So, you know, they took that a whole lot more seriously than just, this is a guy who killed my best friend and pushed my dad to the brink of insanity. I better do a TikTok dance in front of him. It's pretty weird. Pretty weird. I know, I'll bring that up again later because there's another thing that happens in this film that I think deserves a little bit of context, a little bit of reflection afterwards. But let's talk about the A plot. We'll come back to the B plot. The A plot involves Goku fighting Pykon at the start. I love the Wii fight scene of Goku just beating up other people in the tournament. And then they start the fight with Janimba. Are you called Jellybean, maybe? Well, at the beginning, you know, it's like a big... I don't even know why you call that. It's like an evolution to Boo.
00:17:38
Speaker
Yeah, he's basically giant boo. And I think this is one of my favourite movie villains, Chonky Junimba. Being able to punch through portals. Just anything that gives, as I've mentioned before, anything that gives Dragon Ball a reason to not be able to just go head to head, I think is a winner. And this is one of these, I love this fight scene where he's punching him through walls and stuff like that. I just think it's dead funny. I mean, he turns into a Digimon at one point where he's got his stomach can and things. Yeah! What I will say, in all seriousness, I do think that there's a reason why people love Genemba so much. The red one and not the yellow one, but I feel as if it was they as unique.
00:18:15
Speaker
and that way something that you mentioned last week about Majin Buu being quite naive and childlike and that's what makes him dangerous and that's exactly what it is here that I don't even know what you called Junemba before he turns into Junemba with a yellow to the red he doesn't really know so much these I mean I think he does to some degree but he just wants to play and whatever and he's trying to shoot him down and as you said it's quite refreshing that they don't just punch them really hard and that's it, end of the fight. And then of course you get Super Saiyan 3 again which is really damn cool, I'm not gonna lie. Yeah and he even mentions it, he's like all the only other person that's made me do this so far as managing booze so you're on a whole other level which is a great set up to the rest of the film, the escalation of it all. Man, Vegeta's raging in the background. So he does turn up pretty shortly afterwards. We've got Danimba's transformation first, do you want to talk about this? Because we mentioned it last week, it makes him a lot less interesting. Yeah, he turns a lot more humanoid. And don't get me wrong, I do think he looks
00:19:12
Speaker
cool. It's such an early late 90s early 2000s the bighorns and the big red sword and everything he's edgy yeah but it's so well done it's so funny and so cool not to reference dragon ball a bridge too much You're all in the Broadway film where Vegeta's constantly yelling. Oh my god, he's so cool! That is, I think, how people felt about Junemba where they're like, oh he's so cool. Look at this red devil man and whatever. I think the whole he's so cool but he's so dumb is this entire film. I'm not gonna lie.
00:19:49
Speaker
There's so many cool things in it. Do you know what this whole film reminds me of? It's, you know that part in the Boo! Saga where Vegeta and Goku finally fight? yeah Throughout the whole arc, and this is something that someone brought up in the video once and I cannot get it out of my head anymore, but they basically said that the Boo! Saga is more or less the fanservice arc.
00:20:09
Speaker
sure More in terms of you've got Goku vs Vegeta, you've got the fusion, you've got Super Saiyan 3, you've got all of these really cool iconic moments that are so ridiculous and over the top compared to what we've had before, but people still put them in because oh, that'll look cool. And I feel as if for the most part for Goku and Vegeta's parts in this film, minus one part which we will get onto, but I feel as if that is basically this whole film or this part in the album. Oh, do you remember? Looks cool. Oh, give him a sword. Make him turn into Lego. Yeah. Oh, that's so cool though. That's the second style petition version ever. But I mean, between that and I don't jump in the head here, but when he actually gets defeated and he punches Gojita in the face and Gojita just doesn't flinch and it's like so good. It's so cool.
00:20:59
Speaker
have to say There's a lot of moments, I'm going to be honest, this film is ridiculous as hell, but it's so cool when it wants to be. But as you said, you know, you've got the fight between Vegeta, Goku and Junemba, and then they do the fusion dance, which is probably weird that Vegeta doesn't, although I suppose he wouldn't have been there. again i get that this is again I mentioned they don't want to explain things because it's a shonen but Vegeta vaguely offhand goes oh by the way it's absolutely awful being dead I'm not like you and it's a really poignant moment and then they just kind of go I don't wanna miss it I guess they don't have time to talk about it in this 50 minute film so let's move on real quick yeah we've got to get to the B port quick I don't have to admit, I do love the gag with Shenron being summoned. Do you remember that? So funny. So just to recap the listeners, there's a scene where Glohan summons Shenron and says, you know, oh, can you wish everybody back to hell and the rightful places? And initially he's like, okay, no problem. And he's like, yeah, the barn door's kind of opened. Even if I put them back, they would still come out. And they're like, oh, damn, that sucks. And nobody makes a wish. And that is so damn funny. I could note some laughing. And especially there's like an almost after-credits scene where he's like, does anyone want to make a wish? Nobody's made a wish. I thought, oh, that's as I said, this film when it wants to be cool is really, really damn cool. But something I always found weird, and it wasn't until I re-watched this, because initially I thought there was a difference in art style, see between Hell and Just Our World. The Land of the Living as it were, but they only do that for some scenes. I always thought that the Land of the Living that they had thicker outlines, and don't get me wrong I really like the animation, but there's no real consistency to it. Now I wonder if it's something to do with the animation hell so busy with all the things floating around and I wonder if that was more of a necessity rather than a choice and then at that point they just committed to so much of it. I don't know. I'd love to know the story behind it. It does feel like at some point it looks more like Dragon Ball and stuff on Earth and then other times it looks totally different. Because the weird thing is, it never happens when Goku and Vegeta are fighting Junemba. It never once happens with that, but it's more with Goten and Trunks. and There's even one bit where a guy sees his dead wife come back from the grave. And again, I don't think the Japanese dub probably does this, but I find it funny the English dub where the dead wife comes up and she's like, oh my god, you've got no hope. And he's like, it's been 60 years, give me a break.
00:23:32
Speaker
or something which I thought was quite funny. That animation looks something like straight out of Dragon Ball. That scene in particular. ill Yeah. It looks so like that kind of Dragon Ball style. What I will say for the most part is that the film struggles to maintain a tone. Yes. It's kind of when I was going to bring it up was like the the next part of the plot. So they have the argument about fusing and then they fuse and this is the part of the film where I was texting you because I was like I don't know if I can do the rest of this film.
Critique of Comedic Elements
00:23:57
Speaker
So they transform into, they make up some different names for it, is it Vico? Vico, yeah. But basically they mess up the fusion dance and we get fat fusion. And so this has happened at the same time as the B plot is kind of reaching its crux. So the B plot of this film to bring it up is Goten and Trunks are fighting the zombies and they come across the dictator and his army. This is like a comedy bit, but it's not funny. There's no gags, there's no payoff. The joke is, haha, isn't this funny that the dictators here. The absurdity of it is kind of funny for like the first 10 seconds and then it keeps going and it keeps going yeah and it keeps going and it's flinging between that and this Veko Fight, which is again the absurdity of this fat person fighting Danimba's funny for the first 10 seconds and then it keeps going and that keeps going and I'd love to know how much of the run time of this 50-minute movie was split between those two bits because it is absurd how long they took. Because the thing about Dragon Ball and especially Dragon Ball Z is just how different the tone can be. Because in Dragon Ball the original show you definitely see more of, although it's fantasy and when you get the serious moments they really get serious, but for the most part it is like a light-hearted adventure kind of comedy in times. Well maybe not comedy, but you know it's bordering, it's teetering on that. Yeah, but then for Zee, although they do have funny moments, they definitely try to rein it in a lot more and try to make you think, oh, we have to be really serious because we've got Frieza, we've got Cell, we've got Majin Buu, you know, other Majin Buu's a bit silly, but you know, you've got all these characters that pose the real threat and then GT's a whole bag of worms. that regard where they did not get a consistent tone at all. But with this film, as you said, you know you've got a serious plot where... And again, you know I'm not coming in to say I demand a serious plot for this because I'm just here for the punchy-punchy.
00:25:50
Speaker
on. I'm here for the fights, you know the gorgeous animation at times. I'm not here for Fat Viku and The Dictator. That's the thing that really editates me about the inclusion of The Dictator for obvious reasons, less any reason to compensate reason why it was a bad idea. But Freeza's right there. yeah You know, if these are all things considered and his own right as a terrible dictator and you see all the other characters that they could have pulled out for this particular role and they break out him. This movie has all the bits. You just need to swap it around. The dictator is the one joke, the one gag character at the start. and then whether you want to do freezer or just some other henchmen you've made up whatever but like this film so absurdly pasting that the way typically a film is kind of done is like the B-plot and the A-plot both the characters look like they're in parallel at the same time that's kind of how every film ever works right yeah i'm not being weird here up but the moments before the transformation into gojita there's no battle there's no reason to keep checking in with Goten and Trunks at all. There's never in any doubt, there's never any kind of interest in what they're actually up to. It's just them dodging tank bullets for like 10 minutes. It's so bizarre, so strange. I don't understand. And then to make it to make it that little more annoying, for some reason when the A plot gets resolved, the B plot then gets resolved. They get like the headline slot. It's so weird. I don't understand it. Yeah, no, I don't get it. Keep in mind that you've also got five minutes of Vidal breaking Chi Chi's dishes. That's fine, a bit of slice of leaf at the start's fine to context, I think. So these aren't right at the start, you know and i mean that is until you de the pay off as gota and trunks act them like we you know what
00:27:31
Speaker
points i yeah i'd be like you cassy and i what really I don't mind that as much because at least to say something stuff just sets the context of either side of the film so what they're up to at the start without to the end it's what they get up to in the actual film that annoys me. Yeah it's just such a bizarre one because don't get me wrong I'm not going to sit here and pretend you know that all the films are like a high standard of writing or whatever but this one just baffles me. This genuinely, as you said, a lot of time is dedicated towards Viku and a lot of time is dedicated towards the dictator of which, as I said before, it was the reason that a lot of countries, in particular are of course Germany, France,
00:28:13
Speaker
think Israel as well for all these reasons they censored the film with those bits. You wouldn't really miss say anything if you cut that out the film because it seems as if, and maybe it's just me getting older from valleying my time more, but if there's one thing I hate in the film one is when they waste my time, especially when it comes to plots like this, because seeing all honesty, if you cut that plot out all together, I mean, don't get me wrong, you'd have a 10 minute film.
00:28:38
Speaker
But you wouldn't really have a film. There's no substance to this film. I mean, at least, what I will say is, at least with the wrath of, is it wrath of the dragon? Final one, I would say that's probably one of the better ones, purely because there's a plot that's kind of moving along. There's stuff happening in the background that you're like, oh, what's going to happen and things. But with this one, it feels, as you said, it feels more like an inflated TV special.
00:29:06
Speaker
yeah So, when we were chatting about what film to review, I was like, I'm kind of hoping it isn't Broly because the plot of Broly is paper thin and because it is just the punching kick and that's a 50 minute film as well. But at least that's kind of imminent danger to everyone and the whole plot's geared towards what's going on. It's so weird that they've had so little time in this film and they spend so much of it not doing the film, they're not doing the actual plot. But with all that said, we do eventually reach the climax of the film. A 90 second fight scene. It is the best 90 seconds of TV. So good. We finally get Gojita. I was so shocked. I think I messaged you. You did. Yeah, and I was like, how is this only 90 seconds? It is one of the most iconic, at least before Super did it, and I know that was more vegetal, but it was absolutely crazy how even after this film, people were still talking about Gojita, they were still doing fan art, fan animation.
Gogeta's Impact and Emotional Moments
00:30:01
Speaker
He's been in every game since. It's like one of the most popular characters ever. All for 90 seconds of the runtime. I mean the dictator and Viku got more screen time than Gojita and yet Gojita is the one that came out on top and I'm not gonna lie, Gojita really is cool. The only sad thing is they've really spoiled it because they cut back to the surface so that's like yeah go in and trunk few together to become goings and it's like also say in the really weird line, I don't know if this is like a dub specific thing, but they say something lines of like, oh our dad's just fused, we should do it too. It's like, is that like a key sense in the thing that you can sense into hell? That was baffling to me, but you know what I was like, everything else in this film makes a lot of sense, I'm fine to just pass on that. Maybe it's like, and I'm sure there's a Dragon Ball fan out there I'll be able to explain, but maybe it's the the barrier between hell and whatever, yeah, but it never explain it. They also don't explain why the dictator fawns over them having blue eyes and blond hair. Except they don't even have blue eyes, but that's a whole other thing. Do you know what's actually really weird about that line as well? That's a dub line. That's not in the sub. I think, I can't remember the specific line, but the sub I'm sure says, oh they're so strong or something like that. But that's not in the original Japanese, he so someone had to translate that and think, what would the dictator say about Super Saiyan?
00:31:25
Speaker
You know those ridiculous, what would you call them? Your death battles where it's like oh Superman versus Goku or whatever. Was this someone's personal crossover last episode? This film is like the gold rush of America, right? And and bear with me here. I'm loving to hear those quotes. Because right, you know how they had the big pans and things and they were like washing it and they were first trying to find the nuggets of gold, right? There are nuggets of gold in this film, right? You've got Janemba before and after he's away, Ostrinde. Proud of you, King. You know, you're got your ne you've got you've got Gojita, that is really, really cool. You've got some genuinely impressive animation in this one. Despite what I was saying before, even the bits with the dictator, as much as I hate that as a concept, the animation is on point. And I'm just trying to think of what else that are really good moments. Yeah, Pykon gets to fight Janemba as well with It's Cool as well. He's got some great stuff. I was going to say, does Pykon fight Janemba longer than Gojita?
00:32:21
Speaker
ah probably I do want to talk real quick about Gojira's special move in this. I don't understand it in the context of Dragon Ball Sims, can I explain how I see it? But basically he makes an energy blast and crushes it down to like atomic level and throws it inside Janimba. It is unbelievable, it is so cool. That is the epitome of like it's so dumb but it's so cool. And then Janimba explodes from inside after failing to punch Gojira in the face. just wow that is peak dragon ball stability it's so so good honestly that scene almost makes watching the rest of the film worth it next time i'll just go on youtube and just go straight to the fight scene but
00:32:56
Speaker
It makes it worth it. Now, if I remember, and this is me putting them in the hard classes here, but if I remember correctly, I'm sure it's a, oh I can't even remember the name of it, it's something that went over the top, like Starburst or It's an energy blast that eradicates evil energy or something like that.
00:33:15
Speaker
is so over the top but I love it, I'm not gonna lie. So that's why it destroys Geneva but not the small office worker. It's actually pretty damn cool because I think you do something somewhere in the Broly film and that's why he's surprised he doesn't incinerate Broly.
00:33:31
Speaker
And Bro is trying. Aye, he was on his redemption arc and giving him a break. But yeah, again, as I said, am I wrong in saying that this is like the gold rush of Dragon Ball films? No, I like that analogy. I was ah like that. It's just a shame because genuinely, would you recommend this film? See if you had to recommend a Dragon Ball film. Absolutely not.
00:33:50
Speaker
That was quick. I really quickly have mentioned the plot of what happens after the Vegeta fight just to kind of summarize why I wouldn't recommend this. After he wins, they unfuse. Vegeta says, that was cool. See you later. This appears. He has a lot of trauma to get off. You know, he did a lot of things to talk about here, but they don't address any of that, what that was like to fuse with Goku. Goku doesn't bring anything up. Nobody mentions anything about what happened to Earth. and the film wraps up in like a minute after the fight. It is brisk. Going quickly back to Gotenks versus The Dictator wraps that up. Wraps that the plot gets more home. Gaggleshine run and it must be from beating Geneva to the end of the film must be two minutes. It can't be any longer. It feels like an absolute breakneck. We have so many things to resolve and I don't understand why. Why is it such a rush? So yeah, overall I cannot recommend this film. Go YouTube and watch the fight. But just so you can get it, it could be a Denimber fight scene or any of the Goku fight scenes really are worth it. I'll do you one better, go on to TikTok and watch it. Yeah, because it's about the same length as our TikTok. I thought you were gonna say so you can get Subway Surfers played at the same time. I can sit and watch Subway Surfers when the other stuff's going on. No, no family guy clips please. Sorry, the guy making Feds posts or whatever it is. Or like those weird cake thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I can't recommend this film at all. I want to because the Gogeta stuff's so cool, but I just can't recommend the rest of this film for everything else that's in it. Yeah, I can't disagree with that because as you said, there is that emotional moment with Fujita, as you said, where if he dies, although then again, so would Goku. If either of them die, then they're gonna get erased from existence completely, which is an absolutely wild concept. And then at the very end he's like, I'm not feeling so good Kakarot.
00:35:31
Speaker
ah Mr. Kakarot, it feels so good. Tell me about your number. He's gone. And again, you would think King Yemma was probably putting a good word to her. What, the powers that be? But nah. And I don't know it's non-canon and all of that. going to be honest, I think I'm in the same boat as you though. I wouldn't recommend it. And I think purely for the dictator, yeah again, and this is a line that Andrew brought up in a previous episode when we're talking about anime tropes, that when you're recommending an anime to someone, you have to be very careful that it doesn't have one of the more risky tropes, as it were, because, and I quote, people will turn to you and say, is that what you're into? And of course, recommending
00:36:14
Speaker
Dragonball film. The only Dragonball film I might add with the dictator of it. Not a good look first and foremost. And I don't even think you can say it was like a cultural thing or not understanding. Surely someone on the animation team must have said this was a terrible idea. It's just not even funny. No, it's not. I've seen coke things aside as if that's anything to put aside, but even on the sheer concept alone, it's just not good. You know, even if you were to replace the dictator with just someone else, you know, in a different character, like some kind of, who's like the assassin or someone with the red ribbon army in the first? It's a general town. Someone, even if you were to replace it with one of them, it still doesn't make the film good. This just makes it even worse. You know? and And that's the thing as well, because as you said, and it actually reminded me of when we went to see the second My Hero Academia film, and there's a scene where, and for the life of me, I can't remember the names of the characters, so I apologise, but there's a scene where Deku's fighting the main villain with Katjan. They've got the Irvajita and Goku taking the moment where they're both fighting with one another. It really is amazing. But then on the flip side, you've got the rest of Class A fighting against the underlings and henchmen and things. It's really cool because each character has their own powers, has their own quirks, and they have to do some mental gymnastics, that's what we're to think. Okay, how are we going to defeat this guy? How are we going to defeat that guy? Both sides are in peril, and it's very engaging to watch. I know a lot of Dragon Ball fans just scream that I said My Hero Academia has done something better than Dragon Ball. But those two films see the first, I think the first two My Hero Academia films are some of the best anime films because they understand really succinctly what they're trying to achieve and that like you say that they set out these plots both the films does really well when it's like the sidecats is in the Zabib plot but you have to resolve them and they are also within the confines of the film interest and and I just think they do
Lack of Serious Consequences
00:38:11
Speaker
get over it. But yeah you look at that set of films and you think oh there's steaks and everything and I think that's why the older that have gotten the more I can see the childish aspect of Dragon Ball, like I still love Dragon Ball, it'll always be an important anime to me, but there's not as many consequences to it, especially with the whole death thing where you can wish people back with the Dragon Balls and whatnot. So yeah, that kind of lack of consequence there, and especially for the films because the films are non-canon. So Obviously they're not going to kill people off and it's the same with My Hero to Academia but even then you think something's going to go horribly wrong here. Again it's the same with Dragon Ball, you feel as if they're just reset the status quo and it's just it's not engaging because as soon as you get to the dictator and I know I've gone on about this character I just I hear it so much because the thing is you've gone from
00:39:06
Speaker
releasing Frieza and all these other nasty, horribly old characters. And when you're looking in the background, as I said, you've got some very formidable people, and Gohan just punches him straight in the gut and he blows up. And then Videl's like clapping going, oh well done, no, oh my god, you blew up that guy with a fist.
00:39:24
Speaker
The thing about the dictator is that, again, other than the fact that they're trying to bring real world events in as a joke, it's the fact that we've known that guns and bullets and things don't really affect the characters, let's face it, or as much as they used to. No, and Goku is going to go to it and talk to a joke about it while we show up.
00:39:42
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. So you can't go from, you know, Vegeta and Goku, you're literally fighting for their lives, or after lives, versus them getting shot at by cartoony tanks. Honestly, when they came up, I was like, oh god, here we go again. Then you get back to the Vegeta stuff, and I genuinely forgot about Viku. I genuinely remembered that the fusion went wrong, but I couldn't remember what happened until it popped up, and I was like, oh no, oh no.
00:40:11
Speaker
It is a very glory I may ask. Now I wouldn't recommend this film. I'm going to be honest, that was a long way to say it but I feel as if out of all the films if I was going to recommend something, maybe Wrath of the Dragon or… I don't know. I'd really struggle to recommend a Dragon Ball film. Well at least Dragon Ball's E-Film. Would you say you're in the same boat? Yeah I think maybe World's Strongest would be one that's got its own plot. I think Broly's pretty inoffensive and it's just in and out. And yeah Wrath of the Dragon's like an actual film. The ones after that like resurrection of effort much better because they're sort of contained plots. But yeah I think in general it's hard to recommend any of the films. I mean you know that the films are not canon when especially Wrath of the Dragon where they have Super Saiyan 3 winning a fight. That message you're that dude in this film I think is Super Saiyan 3 ever want to fight? Yeah literally as far as I remember other than the Boo fight but that technically doesn't count because it like punches him around and then he pieces out which is just the biggest anime blue balls ever but oh yeah no I think that's the only film he wins. Genuinely. Yeah good for him but I think that's the perfect place to leave it so how would you rate this film out of seven dragon balls let's say? It's hard to give it a direct rating because I'm gonna go like right now like three and a half because like the stuff that's good, if it's just Gogu, Vegeta and Danimba, it's like a six. If it's just the stuff for Trunks on Earth, it's a one. So it's three and a half as I'm going for him. I can't disagree with that because Gogeta is so cool that he elevates the film for 90 seconds. That's how powerful his character was. The fact that you had so many pictures of him online at the time.
00:41:51
Speaker
Yeah, I would say it was average to be fair. Again, I don't know if it's the worst one I've seen but definitely has some questionable choices for sure. And maybe one day I'll go through every single film and then rank them. Yeah, tier ranking. Oh, that'd be such a good episode but that of course is for another episode.
Conclusion and Teasers for Next Episode
00:42:11
Speaker
So Martin, thank you so much as always for joining me in the second episode of Dragon Ball Month. Thank you so much for having me on. It's been an absolute pleasure to talk about a very weird film. As always, where can these of lovely Mandalorian listeners find your content? I am all over social media, you just have to look up Mark McCallister, but my main place is Instagram. Also, if you are around the Glasgow or like the Scotland area, you might even get a chance to see me wrestle, so always keep an eye out, I'd love to see you in person. But that's all from me. And as always, if you want more episodes of Dragon and Ball Month,
00:42:43
Speaker
as well as more episodes from ourselves, then you can catch us on the website Chatsunami dot.com as well as all good podcast providers. I also want to thank our Pandalorian Patrons, for Robotic Battle Toasters and Sonya, thank you so so much for supporting the show and if you would like early access bloopers, exclusive juicy content that you can't see anywhere else, please feel free to check us out at our Patreon, patreon dot.com forward slash Chatsunami. Until next time, stay safe, stay awesome sudden and most importantly, stay hydrated.
00:43:19
Speaker
with their powers combined, and their shirt relatively intact. Satsunami and Martin have fused together to become the ultimate warrior, but will they be able to find a good name for their combined alter ego, or will they spend the rest of the next episode fighting with themselves? Find out on the next exciting episode of Chatsunami Z.