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Every Story Ever: September 2025
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It's time to rank more comic book stories, including a truly bananas backup about Lil' Silver Sable.
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Transcript
Introduction to War Rocket Ajax and Comic Rankings
00:00:00
Speaker
This show is recorded using Zencaster. If you are a podcaster, or you want to be a podcaster, and you want to be able to record remotely, you can do so using Zencaster.
00:00:12
Speaker
They also have hosting options, and you can let them know that we sent you. Follow the link in our show notes, or in the episode description, and sign up for an account on Zencaster now to start recording your own podcast.
00:00:28
Speaker
Glad to say that.
00:00:35
Speaker
We have a list on our website, warrockandajax.com, called Every Story Ever. What we're doing is we're taking lists from our listeners of three comic book stories, and then we are placing those stories on the list from best to worst comic book stories of all time.
Reflecting on Last Year's Hurricane and Its Impact
00:01:01
Speaker
Hello everybody, and welcome to the War Rocket Ajax Every Story Ever special for September 2025. two thousand twenty five We didn't do one of these last year because of a hurricane, and we are recording this episode on the one-year anniversary of that hurricane.
00:01:19
Speaker
So if I'm a little weird on this, that's why. My name is Matt Wilson. Chris Sims, my longtime podcasting partner, is here with me. That's correct, Matt. i don't you You have thrown me off with that intro.
00:01:34
Speaker
i I felt like I had to mention it because it has been a weird day ah here in Western North Carolina. ah people People remembering a year ago, i i posted one thing on Blue Sky about it. You can go look at it.
Examining the Midpoint of the Comic Ranking List
00:01:53
Speaker
But we are not here to talk about that. We are here to rank comic books on a big old list.
00:02:01
Speaker
You know how this goes. You heard me in the past, in the intro, explaining how this works. Has it occurred to you that you are currently you in the past?
00:02:12
Speaker
i i Yes, but I'm further in the past, much further in the past, in the intro. Chris, would you like to let people know about the current state Of the Every Story Ever list.
00:02:26
Speaker
Sure thing, Matt. We have 1,651 comics on the list. Yes, we do. That's how many comics we have ranked. Some people say we don't rank enough in every episode. that We just kind of to like talk a bunch of bullshit with each other. But we've managed to rank 1,651 comics.
00:02:43
Speaker
We've managed to rank 1,651. There's people who haven't read 1,651 comics. have. Yeah.
00:02:49
Speaker
but we have yeah And there's more to come. We often talk about what's on the top and bottom, but I do want to talk about what's kind of dead center. ah Which, right now, dead center of the list, oh at 825 is the ah Mark Waid-Chris Somney run on Daredevil with Matt Murdock in San Francisco um from 2015.
00:03:14
Speaker
And ah what's at 826 is the Spidey Super Stories issue. Spidey Super Stories number 53, where Doctor Doom meets Prince Namor. Perfect. And he rides around the sea monster.
00:03:28
Speaker
The absolute perfect midpoint, I would say. Two comics that I would say, if you read those, you're going to have a good time. yeah Those pretty much encapsulate what comics are.
00:03:42
Speaker
Pretty much. and And yeah, they're pretty good because it's a top-heavy list. the The midpoint is not mediocre. The qualitative midpoint is much lower.
00:03:55
Speaker
Yeah, the the you don't hit mediocre until like maybe the 1200s now. The qualitative midpoint, I would say probably like number 1300, Superman's Girlfriend, Lois Lane, number 103, The Devil's Bride.
Ranking Methodology and Story Quality
00:04:12
Speaker
okay that's theiromics call like that that's like ah That's like a C. I think Per Schaffenberger draws those. That's still pretty good. So even the 1200s are like, pretty good.
00:04:23
Speaker
yeah Still pretty good. yeah um Still nothing wrong with them. yeah we used to Well, there might be something with them. I don't want to say that and then have somebody be like, you know that we've gotten caught in that trap before.
00:04:38
Speaker
Yes. Also, ah just to note, ah the number one is currently Spider-Man. If This Be My Destiny slash The Final Chapter, the greatest comic ever published.
00:04:50
Speaker
And i I don't foresee anything overtaking it. um I mean, it's it's about as good as they make them. Yeah. At number 1651 is Identity Crisis. We don't have to talk about it.
00:05:03
Speaker
you don't i People know this, Matt. Yes. I do want to talk about, though, we used to talk about the number of pages that the list was. Yes. Now, we have broken off into having two different documents.
00:05:18
Speaker
Yes, I have a spreadsheet, which is 651 lines. You have an annotated spreadsheet. Yes. I have... A Word document that is that is shared, ah that people can go look at if they wish to.
00:05:34
Speaker
That Word document, or Google Doc, I should say, is 40 pages now. It is now at 40 pages.
00:05:46
Speaker
That's... That's a novella of ranked comics. It is. It is. i just want people to understand that. Anyone who's out there complaining...
00:05:57
Speaker
About, you don't rake it off. This is an openly hostile episode. Yeah. To you, the listener.
Podcasting Challenges During Hurricanes
00:06:06
Speaker
Look, i I couldn't contact my friends and family during a hurricane a year ago.
00:06:12
Speaker
Let me talk to my friend about comics.
00:06:17
Speaker
I remember being very worried about you, Matt. i Because, like, the last thing I had texted you was, like... Like, hope you don't die, LOL. And then I did not hear from you for two days.
00:06:29
Speaker
And i just to let everyone listening know, I was fine. I just had no no way to contact anyone. And I was sitting in my home bored and with no electricity or running water.
00:06:44
Speaker
All right, here's our first list, Chris.
Ranking Keith Giffen Comics
00:06:46
Speaker
We're going to get right into our first list. This is from ah Steve Lee. who sent us some comics in honor of the late, great Keith Giffen.
00:06:56
Speaker
um That should let people know what the backlog looks like right about now. because Because this is from around the time Keith Giffen died. but um So this is from December 2023. That's where we're
00:07:10
Speaker
It is September 2025. We are raking comics sent to us we are breaking comics sent to us Not quite two years ago.
00:07:24
Speaker
Like 21 months ago. So. That's where we're at. First from Steve. Is the Legion of so Substitute Heroes special.
00:07:36
Speaker
In which Pulsar Stargrave. Is threatening the planet Bisbal. And only the Legion of Substitute Heroes. Can stop him. that's ah That's a good comic. Yeah. That's a very fun comic.
00:07:49
Speaker
Keith Giffen and Paul Levitz with art by Giffen. Yeah, like, Giffen and Levitz were the team on Legion at the time. Yeah. ah and And that book, and as you might expect from this being 1984, that was getting serious.
00:08:11
Speaker
Oh, yeah, it's 85. Yeah. It's 85. Yeah. it's eighty five ah That book was getting real serious, everybody. And so this is them just being fucking goofballs for a little bit. Which Keith Giffen loves to do. we We know this. We know this.
00:08:26
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And, like, honestly, I feel is, as an artist... legion is as an artist some of Giffen's best work.
00:08:40
Speaker
ah Probably, I would say, his best work as an artist. um Not being a fan of Ambushbug, as I am. ah ah But, like, you read this thing, and there'll be, like, 12 panel pages where everything is still, like, clear and legible and interesting and varied.
00:09:01
Speaker
Like... There'll be like nine panel pages that aren't on a grid. There'll be nine panel pages that are on a grid. There'll be like all these dense comics that still like really work. And that is a testament ah to to how good Giffen is.
00:09:25
Speaker
Now, I will say, this kind of the elephant in the room of this comic, It was published in 1984, and so there is a joke about Color Kid's gender gender changing.
00:09:38
Speaker
Like, I believe it's Infectious Lass accidentally gives Color Kid like some kind of space disease that that changes your gender. And in retrospect, that is not great.
00:09:59
Speaker
there I will say, there's nothing hateful about it. And there's certainly... Color Kid is not mocked, or it's just like, oh, here's a weird thing that happened to the Legion of Substitute Heroes today.
00:10:17
Speaker
oh But it is worth bringing up, because I feel like
Review of Legion of Superheroes
00:10:21
Speaker
i feel like if you've read this one a while ago, you might be like, is that the one? that the one with that?
00:10:30
Speaker
And it
00:10:34
Speaker
it is, i believe, not something that Giffen and Levitz would have done today, but I think probably you if you hear that and you are like, that sounds like it could be pretty bad, you are right to feel that way.
00:10:55
Speaker
But I think it is not as bad as it and could be, which is as yeah not as bad as it sounds like it would be. Which is, that's, you know, I don't even know if you would call that clearing a low bar.
00:11:11
Speaker
It's a hard needle to thread, right? Like, where it's like, oh, it's not good, but it could have been worse. Yeah. You know, like, it's... It's hard to um describe that sometimes.
00:11:27
Speaker
that Something existing in that kind of middle space. but um Or maybe a little closer to bad than middle. But but you know like it's not poor it's not bad and badly intention it's not badly intended. feel like...
00:11:42
Speaker
and it's not like
00:11:46
Speaker
i i feel like There are so many more comics from this era and before that if they did have that, it would be a real, oh boy.
00:11:58
Speaker
oh no. It would definitely be a real oh boy. Yeah. oh But in this, it's just like, yeah, a bunch of weird shit happens to the Legion of Subs because they're Legion of Studio Heroes.
00:12:09
Speaker
And here's like, you know, something else weird that happened today. oh Much like, you know, D&D used to have that belt of of gender change that was like a cursed magic item.
00:12:25
Speaker
right And it's not great that turning your big, strong barbarian hero into a woman was considered a curse.
00:12:38
Speaker
But i it's it's a it's a subtle hatred more than an active one. Yeah.
00:12:47
Speaker
yeah it's like you know i guess I feel like I am not succeeding at my mission of making this sound like it's not as bad as you might fear. i Yes, like I said, it's a hard needle to thread ah to describe that.
00:13:00
Speaker
yeah um um I do like that there is a page in this where Giffen draws like most of a page. But then it's all covered up by a um like a memo from Paul Levitz that basically says, like hey, this is boring bullshit. like Can we advance the story, please?
00:13:21
Speaker
oh ah hu And that's a good gag. That's funny. that's it And that's essentially... like Those two things I've just told you. Color Kid gets a gender-swapping space disease, and there's a bit where Paul Levitz says, hey, can we speed things up and stop and and get on with the plot already?
00:13:40
Speaker
Keith, that's everything that is in this comic.
1987 Justice League Series Discussion
00:13:45
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah.
00:13:48
Speaker
I don't know that I've ever read this. like I was not a Legion guy. it never You are notably not a Legion guy. Not because I have any like anything against it. Uh, I just, it, it, it felt hard to get into. you know There is an, there is an obstacle to entry with the Legion.
00:14:08
Speaker
Yeah. Which is that the only way to really get into it for a long time was to spend like $800 on Right. And if Matt Wilson's going to do that, he's going to do it with berserk.
00:14:21
Speaker
Correct. Uh, which I have been doing, uh, on the reg on the regular. um So, Chris, I think this is yours two to rate.
00:14:36
Speaker
i like think it's pretty good. um Having not actually sat down and read it in a while, I'm going off my memory, and I'm hoping that I'm not...
00:14:56
Speaker
that I'm remembering everything I need to remember about this 1984 comedy book. I mean, i I feel like you have probably, you've at least pinpointed the thing that could be um troublesome.
00:15:10
Speaker
Yeah. At least one thing. Yeah. Yeah. ah I, I do ah think it's, it's a pretty good comic.
00:15:22
Speaker
It's definitely ah fa o but You need to have read 100 other comics to read this comic. I do feel like that is that is very much in line with Giffen's comedy comics.
00:15:36
Speaker
A lot of them. like i do I know you've got feelings about Ambushbug, but you cannot say that Ambushbug is not FHO.
00:15:48
Speaker
Yeah, I haven't read enough comics to like Ambushbug.
00:15:53
Speaker
And I've read at least 1,600 of them.
00:15:57
Speaker
it's It's absolutely FHO. Yeah. ah don't know. It's pretty good. I would not call it essential. I would call it kind of a good time. oh And I think like it is a pretty stellar example of Giffen's work as an artist, if nothing else. like I would certainly hand somebody this before I would hand them Ambush Bug or Trencher or something. i feel like I feel like it is indicative of Giffen's I don't know. i like
00:16:28
Speaker
It's hard to know what creators like. Because they're just doing the work they're assigned. you know But if I had to guess of a type of story that Giffen liked to tell, i think this was it.
00:16:44
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's pretty clear that this is this is Paul Levitz and Keith Giffen having a good time. Because I think people forget is that Legion, in the in like the late Bronze Age, like in in the the early to mid-80s, was a popular book.
00:17:05
Speaker
like The books that got the Baxter paper treatment from DC, but talk about for heads only, ah but you know it was it was Titans and Legion and Batman and the Outsiders because those were really popular books with like really dedicated fan bases. so like There was a lot of license for them to kind of like fuck around and do whatever they wanted in the same way that like you know when your book's popular...
00:17:30
Speaker
you can get away with a lot. And also, when nobody's reading your book, you
Influence of Justice League International Arc
00:17:34
Speaker
can get away with some stuff, but in a different way. Yeah, right, right, right. But oh but yeah, like it's a it's, I certainly think it's, if this is not everything that Paul Levitz and Keith Giffen wanted to be on the page, it's 90% of it.
00:17:56
Speaker
So, give me a number. what what What region of the list are you thinking in this this would go in? At number 1000, we have Sensational She-Hulk, He's Dead ah by John Byrne and various artists from Sensational She-Hulk number 100.
00:18:16
Speaker
I don't remember the contents of that issue, but I think it's probably pretty comparable to this, given what I know. Yeah. ah I don't think it's as good as Calvin and Hobbes nailing the table, which is at 1001 right now.
00:18:32
Speaker
ah Matt, hey, did you see that Heathcliff strip? Yeah, you sent it to that Heathcliff panel I sent you? You sent it. Yeah, I saw it. From Monday? saw it.
00:18:43
Speaker
Yeah. I said Deez Nuts.
00:18:47
Speaker
Like, I mean...
00:18:51
Speaker
i My first reaction and my main reaction to that is, how did he get away with it? Like, how could you on the... On the...
00:19:05
Speaker
Comics page, on the King Feature Syndicate, get away with saying, Deez Nuts. Some people say that newspapers are dead. Yeah. And that there they're not doing their jobs. And that they're propping things up they shouldn't be and capitulating to things that they should be standing up against. And that there's a lot of cowardice and oh a lot of attempts at objectivity that are ultimately harmful and not meaningful. But on the other hand, you can say deez nuts in the newspaper now.
00:19:41
Speaker
You can't. I mean, that has ah that definitely has some sense of, like, nobody's watching.
00:19:51
Speaker
That's true. one is guarding the hen house. and so we don't We don't rank comic strips anymore, but the Heathcliff panel that says Deez Nuts would rank high.
00:20:04
Speaker
I would fight for it. but I don't think that's a story, but we're not doing comic strips anymore, so... That's true. ah
00:20:17
Speaker
So, okay. At 1100, we have Fantastic Four, The Naked Truth, another John Byrne She-Hulk story about a guy trying to publish She-Hulk's nudes.
00:20:31
Speaker
Yeah. yeah John Byrne had a thing in that about that kind of story, I gotta say. Yeah. ah a Good ol'
00:20:42
Speaker
Air quotes. JB on those. Lost in the Bermuda Triangle, JB. Yeah. I wonder what happened to him. um Now, at 1060, we have the Justice League America Annual No. 4, Justice League Antarctica.
00:20:57
Speaker
I do think this is better than that, and it's kind of the same book. Okay. Just like, you know, that happens like three years later. right So i think I personally, unless there's something I'm forgetting, I enjoy it better.
00:21:13
Speaker
ah But I do not like it as much as the Heathcliff strip about the meat tank. That's at 1052. So I'm going to say i'm going to say we can safely put this.
00:21:26
Speaker
um I would put it below Batman vs. Predator, above Batman Sword of Azrael.
Redefining Superhero Narratives in the 1980s
00:21:32
Speaker
Alright, so that makes it the new number 1054.
00:21:37
Speaker
And that is Legion of Substitute Superheroes Special.
00:21:48
Speaker
Okay. But it's the only comic with that title, so. Oh, yeah. Yeah, bud. Yeah. Yeah.
00:21:55
Speaker
okay but i think it's the only comic with that title so oh yeah yeah but yeah um Next on Steve's list, I hesitate to say that this should be ranked as a single issue, but I wonder what you think.
00:22:12
Speaker
okay um Justice League issue one. This is Justice League 1987. Okay. Written by J.M. DeMatteis and Keith Giffen, penciled by Kevin Maguire.
00:22:24
Speaker
A new Justice League is forming even as terrorists take over the UN n building and Maxwell Lord is planning something in the background. I kind of feel like...
00:22:34
Speaker
the The Justice League 1-6...
00:22:38
Speaker
and but and Then after that it becomes Justice League International? Mm-hmm. I feel like the 1-6 is a single story. Personally. Yeah.
00:22:51
Speaker
I think it certainly... like It hangs together and is is later published as such. Yeah. ah like I definitely think...
00:23:01
Speaker
I think we could probably rank one, one through six as ah as a, a single story because, well, also I think numbers one through six are pretty much of the exact same quality.
00:23:13
Speaker
That, all that, ah that also, yeah, I, I just don't. And also like, you know, it's all about the formation of the league, right? All of those first six issues about the, or about the formation of the league in five Batman, um,
00:23:30
Speaker
punches Guy Gardner right in his right in his nose, and knocks him out. One of the greatest moments in comics history. Really good. It's really good.
00:23:41
Speaker
Yeah. ah like It's one of those moments that Wizard Magazine loves. Loved. um But for good reason. Do you think Wizard Magazine loved it because it was funny or because it was badass? Or do you think it's a little bit of both?
00:23:59
Speaker
I think it hit the sweet spot for them of being both. yeah Wizard Magazine is so hard to figure out, man.
00:24:08
Speaker
Wizard Magazine loved fucking Cry for Dawn and Usagi Yojimbo. I mean, it's not that they had all bad taste. they just I mean, I also know that there's a bunch of people working there. so Yeah, so so certain certain ah
00:24:30
Speaker
staffers head there had their particular loves. yeah maybe Maybe I shouldn't talk shit about Joseph Michael Lindsner's Dawn, because we we haven't read it.
00:24:46
Speaker
I'll tell you what I have read is Lady Death, and it fucking sucks.
00:24:53
Speaker
Well, what is good is Justice League 1987, numbers one through six. Yeah. So do we want to do we want to go ahead and rank that that whole ah arc? I think we should, yeah.
00:25:07
Speaker
Have we not ranked this before? I don't think so. We've ranked some Justice League International, and we ranked formerly known as the Justice League. Mm-hmm. But i we have not ranked Justice League 1987 numbers 1 through 6.
00:25:22
Speaker
I mean, it's good. yeah It's like...
00:25:27
Speaker
It's... I feel like this comic is well known enough that like we barely need to really review it. But like I think this run has the reputation of being like the ha-ha comedy run.
00:25:41
Speaker
I mean, it's it's it has it designated itself as that. Yeah. but but But, like, it is a real comic. Like, it is a real... Like, it's an action... it's it There is action in it that is good.
00:25:56
Speaker
There is, like, drama in it that is good. That shit where ah Despero shows up, that Adam Hughes draws, is, like... great. That is a hard-ass comic.
00:26:10
Speaker
Later in the run, it it creates sad metamorpho. Well, sad metamorpho comes from Batman and Outsiders. Well, yes. We get sad dad metamorpho in Justice League Europe.
00:26:22
Speaker
Yes, it creates sad dad metamorpho. After it becomes Justice League Europe. yeah yeah um Which, you know, it's is is a valid characterization. is is Was his characterization in the movie?
00:26:35
Speaker
yeah but like To quote ah the immortal Taz, it's not all laughy-assy, laughy-assy.
00:26:51
Speaker
like There is good like comedy stuff in here that that I think redefined it, but like There's not that much more comedy in Justice League than there is in Suicide Squad.
00:27:08
Speaker
You know? Suicide Squad's a very funny book. oh It just, you know, goes – it leans on the other side a little harder. What I'm saying is – Suicide Squad has a more serious presentation.
00:27:26
Speaker
But has humor in it. Yeah. This is a book that foregrounds the humor, but has serious drama in it. Yeah, that has just as much action and drama as any anything else in the stands. like Because humor is one of the ways that you build character.
00:27:45
Speaker
True. I remember like ah listening to the Attitude Era podcast, and they were talking about... like um pro wrestling and the, you know, funny don't make money conversation.
00:27:57
Speaker
And, uh, I think it was Kevin Mann said, uh, yeah, the funny thing is, yeah you know, it's weird. People don't realize this when you're laughing, you're usually having a pretty good time.
00:28:09
Speaker
Like, you enjoy it. Like, you enjoy that feeling. yeah And I just feel like this book often gets pigeonholed by people who didn't read it, ah or readers of Wizard Magazine fucking 25 years ago, ah as just being comedy, when in fact, it's like... It's... it's it's d Like, this is DC's answer X-Men.
00:28:36
Speaker
You know? Well, I mean, I don't know that DC would said that. wouldn't have said that, but like they like Teen Titans was DC's answer to X-Men, but Teen Titans wasn't very good. oh Like, this is the actual book that I think, you know, mid-80s X-Men was very comparable to. It's just like, you know, fun.
00:28:55
Speaker
What's funny is, like, I don't know, i this this is probably going sound harsher than I mean it to.
00:29:07
Speaker
But like I feel like there are people who think that this is like the second stringer Justice League. you know the like i mean, Batman's here, but like you know you got Blue Beetle, you got Booster Gold, you got ah
00:29:25
Speaker
Doctor Fate. You got like characters who are not considered like the top of the pile.
00:29:34
Speaker
of Captain Marvel's in this. I forgot about Captain Marvel. I mean, it is a bunch of characters, much like Suicide Squad, that like weren't doing anything else at the time. Yeah, yeah. And... that's true.
00:29:47
Speaker
But... I think it could be argued that this was the first time that the Justice League, as a concept, was actually interesting.
00:30:00
Speaker
I mean, I would certainly say if you look at Again, if you look at like immediate pre-crisis Justice League, it's mostly pretty boring.
00:30:12
Speaker
Yeah. like Despite having you know the the the big characters in it, it's pretty... like I mean, there's a reason nobody talks about it.
00:30:27
Speaker
it's It's just... It's Super Friends. You know? Like, it's... It's fine, but it's not like anything to go... There's a couple of good ones. The you know the one where ah the JLA-JSA crossover where they fight ah the fourth world characters.
00:30:42
Speaker
yeah like so That's pretty good. There's some pretty good stuff. and and like If you go back to like the early Silver Age Justice League, there's some interesting stuff going on in those comics. I'm overstating a little bit. i'm overstating it a little bit ah because who Was like Gardner Fox writing those?
00:31:03
Speaker
sorry Yeah, Fox. wrote him And then Mike Sikowski. yeah An artist that I know old heads like fucking Mark Avenir really into. And i'm not going say Mike Sikowski is not a good comics artist.
00:31:21
Speaker
But let's be real here. Mike Sikowski was fast.
00:31:26
Speaker
Like Mike Sikowski hit deadlines. Yeah.
Impact of Post-Crisis Comics on DC Universe
00:31:31
Speaker
But like you know like this is this this is the first like injection of like mystery and drama to the Justice League in a way that that had not been part of the Justice League before. like Yeah, yeah like the most the interesting things the Justice League would do before this, I feel like, was like teaming up with the JSA. Teaming up with people from 40 years before.
00:31:57
Speaker
Yeah. You know, like, doing Earth-1, Earth-2 stuff. Yeah. And this is, like, actually, like, i don't know, drama and comedy with these characters. Yeah, i mean, like, the Maxwell Lord stuff is really interesting. And if you you know if you think about the mission statement of all the post-crisis books being to modernize the DC characters, to, like, kind of bring them up to what was contemporary in the right?
00:32:27
Speaker
Right. like I think Man of Steel, you know the burn Superman does that really well. Batman Year One obviously did that really successfully. ah Suicide Squad, I think, is a great use of like, well, what are we going to do with all these third-rate villains that we don't want to use anymore because they're silly? It's like, oh, well, let's do this.
00:32:50
Speaker
And then this book is like, okay, so what do superheroes look like? It's not necessarily in a realistic world, but in a world where there are like realistic things like corporate branding and ah like, like the UN and the cold war, like, you know, it's, it's very contemporary in a way that the immediate post-crisis stuff wasn't.
00:33:19
Speaker
A lot of people have not read a lot of immediate post-crisis or pre-crisis stuff. Because it's bad. Yeah. Yeah. It feels old.
00:33:31
Speaker
Like, yeah, I feel like some of that Bronze Age stuff feels older than Silver Age stuff. Or at least like... it's It's more boring. Yeah, like, immediate pre-crisis Superman is, like, nothing feels older than that. Like, there are Superman stories from 1958 that, like, don't feel as old as the Superman stories from 1984. Because at least those comics are doing something weird, right? Yeah. Like, those comics from, like, the late are just...
00:34:01
Speaker
are just Keeping the IP alive. Yeah. you know like We all know that like the worst time to read comics is 2005 and 2006. Because that is when comics were at their absolute bottom of the barrel worst. by and Despite both of us doing a lot of it.
00:34:21
Speaker
Fucking starting a blog about them. Trying to sell them to people at the time, Matt. Yeah. Yeah. But I feel like if you were a superhero comics reader, the late 70s and early 80s were challenging across the board.
00:34:43
Speaker
Because that's the era of like Marvel cutting the page count. And like like you know marvel had a real like Marvel had a real renaissance in the 80s. So did DC. But like Marvel, prior to that, outside of X-Men and Spider-Man,
00:35:01
Speaker
like those late 70s Fantastic Four comics, those late 70s B-list and C-list Marvel comics, there's some gems in there, but like you're probably not going to read a run of them.
Cultural Significance of Justice League Arc
00:35:15
Speaker
Yeah, i Marvel's Renaissance came just a little before DC's. Yeah. um But yeah, the I think you're right. I would say the time you hit 84, Marvel's fucking cooking with gas.
00:35:29
Speaker
marvel's fucking cooking with gas yeah like When you got Simons and Thor and X-Men's good and G.I. i Joe is coming out, and like that shit is is tight.
00:35:43
Speaker
But DC like you know really had to...
00:35:50
Speaker
Crisis, I don't know if crisis was necessary, but something was necessary. And I feel like, you know, as much of a mess as Crysis is, and as much as, like, I wish we could all just be like, hey, Crysis was bad, actually.
00:36:07
Speaker
Like, we should probably stop trying to redo it and reference it, because it was bad, actually. oh Like, I don't know they needed to get rid of the DC multiverse, but...
00:36:19
Speaker
you cannot deny that the shit that came out immediately after was pretty fucking good. Well, like, yeah, like, i i I think it's a reasonable thing to say, too complicated.
00:36:32
Speaker
Let's streamline it and and make it easier for people to understand and and know that they're the Batman that they're reading about is Batman. Yeah. And not some other Batman, right? like Well, unless it's in Elseworlds.
00:36:47
Speaker
Unless it's in those worlds. Which came like four years later. but not Not long, yeah. yeah ah But anyway, I think the point we're ultimately making is that this first arc in particular of the relaunch Justice League in 1987 is good.
00:37:07
Speaker
Yes. It's real good. We have – okay –
00:37:13
Speaker
At 179, we have Justice League No. 13, Suicide Squad No. 13, which was the a crossover between those two books. That shit whips. We have Man of Steel at 192. I think this is comparably good to Man of Steel. Yeah, Man of Steel pretty good, but i mean this is also pretty good.
00:37:36
Speaker
um I think they both do, for the concepts, same thing. the same thing yeah you know so i think like in the low 100s is not a bad spot for this. yeah i mean it's certainly it is a comic I have and will and would recommend. like Even almost 40 years later,
00:38:04
Speaker
it it though there is a freshness to a lot of it. and A lot of that comes from just like fucking... Kevin McGuire being an absolute beast.
00:38:16
Speaker
Oh, yeah. like Like... that that hit That art does not look dated. Yeah, one of one of the best to ever do it. No shit. One of the best.
00:38:28
Speaker
Like, i love the way I love the way he draws Batman. Like, he's fucking grumpy, dude. Like... and I think Kevin Maguire has probably appreciated the exact right amount, but probably should be appreciated more for how good he is.
00:38:53
Speaker
Everybody's face in these issues. Very good. Yeah, I mean, but Maguire could really, like... draw those expressions. like Like few others.
00:39:05
Speaker
The acting of the characters is second to none under McGuire. Um, like, and he did, he did these issues.
00:39:17
Speaker
Like I said, Adam Hughes did those Despero issues and they're real good. But, like, Adam Hughes did like two issues of this run and Kevin McGuire's there every month. Almost. Except for when Adam Hughes draws them.
00:39:30
Speaker
Um,
00:39:33
Speaker
Above or below Man of Steel? I think maybe below, but like just a little below? i mean, Man of Steel... There's a lot I really love about Man of Steel. But like I feel like it's as much of an influential... I mean, God, like it influenced a movie that came out this year, you know? Yeah, yeah. like ah Like... that Yeah, but they're called the Justice Gang in Superman, but that's the JLI, man. Yeah, I mean, like but like Maxwell Lord's in there,
00:40:00
Speaker
and yeah It is very, you know, it's, you know, we've talked about this. Everybody knows all this shit, Matt.
00:40:11
Speaker
I think it's as revolutionary as Starman for its time. i I like these six issues probably about as much as I like Starman.
Ranking Specific Comics and Anecdotes
00:40:23
Speaker
My gut says that we put it just below Man of Steel and Starman at 194. Okay, I think that's fine. Okay, so that um that puts it above Incredible Hulk number 312, but i think that I think that's right.
00:40:39
Speaker
yeah um Justice League, 1987, numbers 1 through 6. I feel like, is Reborn the name of that first name? Born Again.
00:40:52
Speaker
the name for calling a comic Born Again in the 80s, man? ah is That's got to be an intentional joke, right? I mean, probably. Probably. Yeah. Finally on Steve's list is Legion of Superheroes Volume 4 Issues 1 to 12.
00:41:08
Speaker
I think we've ranked these. I think we have too. Yeah.
00:41:15
Speaker
up Sorry, my spreadsheet auto-completed to Kevin Maguire and Luke McDonald as the artists because I was looking at that all but crossover. Yeah. i I'm quite certain. I think we got this Legion run...
00:41:33
Speaker
Well, I think multiple people sent in stuff. ah Yes. Yes, we have Legion of Superheroes Volume 4, five years later, at number 719. Is that Legion Volume 4?
00:41:47
Speaker
ah Yes, that's Volume 4.
00:41:51
Speaker
ah So we'll take one alternate from Steve, which is Legion of Superheroes Volume 3, Issue 50, Life and Death at the End of Time, written by Paul Levitz and Keith Giffen. The Legion hatch a plan to kill the Time Trapper by having him fight the embodiment of circular time, the Infinite Man.
00:42:11
Speaker
I've definitely read this.
00:42:14
Speaker
but I've definitely read it. Okay. But I need to... I need to... I cannot remember it. I need to look it up.
00:42:25
Speaker
Okay. which Which run is this? It's volume three, so it's right before the five years later Legion. Okay. So i I think it's probably from the 1984 series.
00:42:42
Speaker
Okay.
00:42:46
Speaker
Number fifth. Yes. You know what that shit's on? Baxter paper.
00:42:51
Speaker
Boy, what a beautiful cover. Oh my god. Very modern looking. Yeah, what a great cover. Hey, the Time Trapper? That dude doesn't make any sense.
00:43:04
Speaker
Time Trapper hard to get your head around, man. the steve Steve's comment on this issue is, this is comic book nonsense at its best. Yeah, I mean, that's when the Legion is at its best, it is it is comic book bullshit.
00:43:22
Speaker
ah yeah I mean, it's pretty good. It's pretty good stuff, man. I like it. I think everything that I said about the Legion of Substitute Heroes as far as like Giffen as an artist can also apply to this, but more so.
00:43:41
Speaker
um like this This has the 31st Century Green Lantern in it. it's got It's got weird continuity shit. It's got a panel where just somebody says, you dare, and that's the entire page.
00:43:57
Speaker
Which is fucking great. That's comics. That's comics as hell, man. Yeah. I mean, yeah. This shit's pretty good.
00:44:10
Speaker
It's not the end of Legion Volume 3, but it's like a year away from the end. Yeah, man. I mean, it's... It's...
00:44:23
Speaker
it's so the Because the Time Trapper, Matt. See, the Time Trapper is how the Legion continued to exist after Crisis, which, again, it's hard to like the Legion.
00:44:36
Speaker
It's difficult. Well, this was yeah this was one of the books that like started pre-Crisis and continued. Yeah, and was based on Legion, which is a spinoff of Superboy, who no longer existed.
00:44:51
Speaker
Right. Which is why the Time Trapper had to fucking come up in there and be like, I created a pocket universe where Superboy existed so the Legion can still be around. And everybody was like, what?
00:45:03
Speaker
And then that's why nobody read Legion until like fucking Dan Abnett and Andy Lanning. So this is trying to this is trying to do some like cleanup.
00:45:15
Speaker
I mean, this is is just like a story with the Time Trapper in it. Okay, okay. But I mean, some cleanup has been done. But it makes the Time Trapper kind of like a big deal in the Legion, which is hilarious because this dude's name is the Time Trapper.
00:45:34
Speaker
I mean, that's that's comics, right? like like If there's one thing that the eighty s and the 2000s have in common, it's, oh, this character who is ridiculous...
00:45:50
Speaker
is serious now. Oh, yeah. They still have their ridiculous name. i mean, one of the... um
00:45:59
Speaker
ah One of the duo damsels is killed in this issue. And... and yeah Like, it is it is not...
00:46:11
Speaker
ah It's not meant to be funny when she says not again. It's kind of funny. It's kind of funny. it's like It's like that dude on yeah ER r who got his arm chopped off by a helicopter.
00:46:28
Speaker
And then like two seasons later, he is then killed in another helicopter accident when a helicopter falls on him. And he doesn't say not again, but I wish he would have.
00:46:42
Speaker
Yeah. It's like ah it's like John Hurt in Spaceballs. Yeah.
00:46:48
Speaker
It's funny when he says not again, because he because that alien came out of his stomach twice. Yeah. um This is good comics. This good-ass comics. It's not like Great Darkness Saga good, but it's certainly good comics.
00:47:05
Speaker
Yeah. ah All right. tell Tell me where it goes. I think below um the first six issues of Justice League. Yeah.
00:47:17
Speaker
I mean, I don't know, man. i i could I could talk for two hours about why it sucks that you can't just explain the Legion of Superheroes to people. Why it's too hard.
00:47:31
Speaker
ah But I won't do that. Where do we have the Great Darkness? song That's like high, right? Yeah, it's 168. It's pretty high, yeah. um
00:47:45
Speaker
It's... Is it better than Reboot Legion at 719? Yeah. yeah It's better than that. Okay, great. Going by the hundreds, at 500 we have Christmas on Bear Mountain, which is the first.
00:48:01
Speaker
but That's first to know Scrooge McDuck. oh That's pretty good. ah At 600 we have ah Jack Kirby on Jimmy Olsen.
00:48:12
Speaker
Jimmy Olsen, monarch of all he subdues. That shit's pretty fucking fun. Oh, i called it I called it Reboot Legion. Reboot Legion is the 1994 Legion book. Sorry. Yeah, the Reboot Legion is at 601, and I think this is better than that.
00:48:26
Speaker
Okay, great. ah I mean, I would say... mean, it's weirdly very comparable to Legion Lost, which is a 582. Because those are both kind of like serious stories about the Legion.
00:48:41
Speaker
I would say this one does like more... ah hard-ass comic stuff. you know like That Hugh Dare page kicks ass. It's really good. ah yeah i just i just looked at it. It's great.
00:48:52
Speaker
um Legion Lost, we're talking about the good one, not the new 52 one. yeah yeah um I would say it's better than the Kate Spencer Manhunter, which is a good book. I don't think it's as good as Final Crisis.
00:49:10
Speaker
Okay, so that puts it the new number 565. 565, yeah. um Legion 1984 number 50 Time Trapper What is the actual title of that issue?
00:49:29
Speaker
ah Life and Death at the End of Time. What a great title. They ain't gonna call any Daredevil stories that. That's true.
00:49:42
Speaker
Life and death at the end of time. Okay. Steve, thank you for sending in that list. that was That was very fun to talk about. um This next list comes to us from Daniel Sylvester.
00:50:00
Speaker
I've got to put numbers in this. Okay. Vamp, Matt, vamp! I think we did these, actually. um These were all Dragon Ball stories.
00:50:13
Speaker
And I think we ranked them all. ah The Saiyan Saga, the Frieza Saga, and the Cell Saga. Yes. Do we have the Saiyan Saga? We have the Frieza Saga. We have the Saiyan Saga.
00:50:26
Speaker
yeah And we have the Cell the Saga. Yes, we have done all these.
New X-Men and Post-9/11 Themes
00:50:30
Speaker
okay Very recently. that We did those in July. okay i it's Look, i as I mentioned on...
00:50:40
Speaker
The regular show when we were doing 1 to 10 of Swords. google Gmail has done ah great disservice to me by putting the search results not in chronological order when I search for things lately.
00:50:54
Speaker
and
00:50:57
Speaker
It's troubling. It's troubling. Because I think we already did that list from Daniel. but ah Or maybe somebody sent in the same thing. Somebody sent in the same thing?
00:51:07
Speaker
ah that that Daniel did? I'm not sure. But we've ranked all three of those. But thank you for sending that in, Daniel. Here's a list from Ted Anderson. Ah, good ol' Ted Lee Anderson.
00:51:21
Speaker
ah no No scare quotes around good ol' Ted. Like Ted. This is um Ted's replacement list after we put a moratorium on an individual comic strips.
00:51:33
Speaker
ah Okay.
00:51:35
Speaker
Uh... These are just ah some stories Ted wanted to wanted to submit. First, New X-Men number 132, Ambient Magnetic Fields, which is Grant's 9-11 issue.
00:51:55
Speaker
Challenging. Challenging. challenging Surely this is part of a run we've already read. It's not. are what Already read, but not already ranked. already ranked No, it's not part of a story we've already we've already ranked.
00:52:11
Speaker
it's it's I think it's a standalone issue.
00:52:18
Speaker
I mean, it's... It's...
00:52:22
Speaker
it's It's not, look, it's not not Grant's 9-11 issue.
00:52:31
Speaker
But, you know, it's it's it's about Genosha. it's It's about the aftermath of the destruction of Genosha. Yeah, and everybody thinks Magneto's dead.
00:52:42
Speaker
Yeah. ah They're going to find out at some point. But ah the what it is, is it's actually Polaris. Yeah. that is is doing all the magnet stuff in this.
00:52:55
Speaker
well And she's using magnetism to record the final moments of Genosha.
00:53:10
Speaker
ah And it's driving her insane. Yeah. And then she like shoots it out into space, and then builds a statue of Magneto out of the Tri-Sentinel.
00:53:26
Speaker
It was released on September 11th, 2002. Yeah, that was a weird day for comics.
00:53:37
Speaker
but and well i mean September 11th would have been a Tuesday, so this would have been September 12th. According to the Marvel Database... It was released on September 11, 2002. Oh, okay. Not 2001, 2002.
00:53:48
Speaker
oh Okay, two thousand not two thousand one two thousand and two okay. so So was on the one it was on the the first anniversary of 9-11. Okay. And I don't know if Grant knew that that was going to be the release date.
00:54:01
Speaker
um But it look, it's it's not actually about nine eleven like it's it ain't like issue. like that Spider-Man issue. But it does... But like I said, it's not not about it.
00:54:16
Speaker
It does does definitely feel informed by it. Yeah. it's It's about it in a Grant Morrison sort of way. Like... it it It ends with a message from Magneto.
00:54:35
Speaker
Like, you know, play this play this in case of my death. ah saying, ah i i may be dead, but I will live on forever.
00:54:48
Speaker
i've I've become unstoppable. Our voices will be broadcast around the world at the speed of light, at the speed of radio. Our voices traveling but without end through the depths of time and space beyond this life and far, far beyond this death.
00:55:02
Speaker
And then it's just a big splash page of the X-Men drawn by Phil Jimenez looking sad in some rubble. Jean has given Lorna her jacket so that she's Donald Ducking it.
00:55:16
Speaker
She's Winnie the Pooh-ing. She's definitely Winnie the Pooh-ing. Polaris is naked through so much of this issue. And like Phil Jimenez does a lot of that. like Well, I guess she's only naked for a couple of pages.
00:55:31
Speaker
her Her costume comes off while she's doing a lot of her magnetic ah stuff She doesn't start naked.
00:55:42
Speaker
She does get naked and then stay naked for several pages. She's naked for maybe like four or five pages. Hey, ah if you were looking for that panel where ah Polaris is on her knees naked with her back arch screaming, Daddy, it's in this one.
00:55:59
Speaker
It's in this one. um There's also one where she is. the The one that I was going to point out is there's one where it's Polaris, naked, her hair covering her nipples, as so often is the case.
00:56:18
Speaker
But like there's nothing covering her like genitalia except a shadow. Yeah. yeah I mean, that's basically that that comic where batman you can see Batman's hog.
00:56:31
Speaker
Yeah. It's basically that. It's basically that, and... and like What Magneto is saying in a speech balloon on that panel is, it's a strange thing to die in darkness.
00:56:47
Speaker
That is that is like a weird juxtaposition, ah I got gotta say. It's weird that this issue is about Magneto recording people's voices on magnetic storage.
00:57:04
Speaker
Like like yeah tape. Yeah.
00:57:08
Speaker
that's I mean, I guess it was 2002, so i guess that was... I mean, i guess I guess kind of it's still the thing, but... Well, I mean, and you could record stuff digitally in 2002. Yeah.
00:57:22
Speaker
yeah This issue's fine, I think. Like, I mean, it's, you know, it's Phil Jimenez, it's Grant Morrison. It's, like... it on ah On a craft level, it's certainly...
00:57:39
Speaker
like well done. On ah scale of comics creators working through some 9-11 shit in the in the book, in the work, it's on the better end. what's our what's our like What's our scale for that? it's like like Zero is Frank if he had done a comic after 9-11 and not been lost in the Bermuda Triangle.
00:58:09
Speaker
up Right, right, right, right. yeah He's a zero on that scale. The hypothetical Frank Miller post-9-11 comic is definitely a zero.
00:58:20
Speaker
Who's a 10? Like, who did it best? I mean, it might be this. Yeah. like
00:58:31
Speaker
Like, the JMS Spider-Man comic, charitably, is a five. Yeah, I feel i mean like it's the gold standard. Or it's the standard.
00:58:42
Speaker
It's the misery stick. Because I feel like that comic's weird, but that comic's weird in a way where it's like, yeah, I get it. it's It's heartfelt, at least. yeah and like Is it dumb that Doctor Doom and Kingpin are crying? Yes, but is it ain't a fucking Mark Miller book, you know? It's sincere.
00:59:03
Speaker
It captures a feeling. That was a feeling of that moment. Yeah. Where, like, we're putting aside our differences, you know, like, just for now to mourn. With the kingpin.
00:59:19
Speaker
With the kingpin. um A murderer. And Doctor Doom, who had shot skyscrapers into space on multiple occasions. Yes. but like you put But like, I get because it's not real, right? like it's it's These characters are all metaphors.
00:59:37
Speaker
right And like, it's not good, but I get it. It's a five.
00:59:46
Speaker
I don't know what a ten is. Because like, God, do you remember that wave of like, Marvel in particular, putting out All of those comics, those post-9-11 comics that were just like about you know firefighters.
01:00:07
Speaker
Ten might be the Garth and his Punisher issue. we Do not fall in New York City, which isn't good. Right, we have it low on the list. Yeah, it's not good, but it is like
01:00:22
Speaker
it it is in character.
01:00:26
Speaker
Here's why I say this issue is the Ten.
01:00:30
Speaker
Because it didn't make X-Men about 9-11.
01:00:37
Speaker
Grant managed to make a parallel relevant to X-Men. Oh, I know what them i know what a 10 is. I know what a 10 is on the scale.
01:00:47
Speaker
All right. It's the last shot of Spider-Man 2002 where Spidey swings up to the American flag.
01:00:57
Speaker
that's That's a 10. You mess with one of us, you mess with all of us. That shit's good. That shit's good, yes. Spider-Man 2002 might be ah the absolute 10 on the post-911 superheroes list.
01:01:13
Speaker
Okay, then I think this is a 9. Because at least it is an art an artful way of...
01:01:24
Speaker
symbolically talking about 9-11 without actually talking about 9-11. I mean, if I didn't know exactly when this comic came out... It could just be an X-Men It could just be about like the destruction of Genosha,
01:01:39
Speaker
yeah like which you know happens in the first issue of of the run, which is you know ah like was certainly written and drawn prior to 9-11, I believe.
01:01:54
Speaker
Seems like it would have to have been. Yeah. yeah
01:01:59
Speaker
Because when did it start? I mean, it starts in... The run starts in 2001, right? it starts in so it had it had to be. Yeah. Yeah. because they like Yeah. earlier than that.
01:02:15
Speaker
Yeah. one one fourteen is in july of two thousand and one is the cover day so it would have been like a ah month or later than that yeah um which open like that That is the one where Genosha gets destroyed.
01:02:29
Speaker
So, if I didn't know it was immediately post nine eleven you could this could just be like, yeah, Genosha got all fucked up. Let's go let's go visit Genosha ah and and deal
Challenges in Comic Series Continuity
01:02:48
Speaker
with that. So, it it's it's part of the run.
01:02:51
Speaker
Right. but But it's also kind of inevitable to be like, oh, right. The imagery, that last page. that like That last page. That last page would not be the last page. The funniest thing about that last page is that you've got Gene and and Charles there, and they're wearing their new X-Men costumes.
01:03:17
Speaker
And then you've got storm who's wearing who was in the book Claremont was writing at the time. So she's in like hey superhero costume. And then you've got Quicksilver and Sabra are there in their late 90s, early 2000s costumes.
01:03:36
Speaker
yeah And they like those X-Men suits have never looked more out of place. Yeah. Claremont was doing... What was he was doing? x Extreme X-Men.
01:03:50
Speaker
Extreme X-Men. That's right. Man.
01:03:56
Speaker
That is not a good comic. No. It is extremely not good. Let's see Let's see.
01:04:08
Speaker
We've got some other new X-Men books on the list for sure. ah So let's let's compare. Right at ex Xavier's is at 405. That's better. Murder at the Mansion.
01:04:20
Speaker
Ain't that good. Murder at the Mansion's at 406. That's better. Assault on Weapon Plus, 412. Planet X, 413. E is for Extinction is at 614. Ain't that good.
01:04:33
Speaker
I mean, Imperial's at 1110. It ain't that good. It ain't that good. I think it might be about as good as Here Comes Tomorrow. It's about as good, yeah.
01:04:44
Speaker
It's the same kind of like...
01:04:50
Speaker
Melodrama, I guess. Yeah. I like Here Comes Tomorrow, still. um But it's melodramatic. It's heightened. you know i and more More so than normal.
01:05:08
Speaker
yeah ah So yeah, I think maybe in that region of the list is is maybe where it goes. because it It ain't a bad issue. It just is is a weird is a weird part of the run.
01:05:26
Speaker
it it it fits weirdly into the run. yeah Are we saying better or worse than Here Comes Tomorrow?
01:05:33
Speaker
Maybe just below. maybe Maybe not far below. As a single issue,
01:05:44
Speaker
better... it's better then it's better than the Dingbats of Danger Street. A lesser Jack Kirby creation.
01:05:58
Speaker
yeah um I think it's probably better than Punisher War Journal No. 5.
01:06:12
Speaker
Probably not as good as Demon Annual No. 2, the first Hitman. Okay, then this is the new No. 1170. yeah New X-Men number 132.
01:06:28
Speaker
And the title of that is Ambient Magnetic Fields.
01:06:42
Speaker
I'm just going to put Genosha slash 9-11. Okay. ah Put that in the notes. Because that's what it is.
01:06:53
Speaker
All right. Next on Ted's list is Marvel Masterworks graphic graphic novel Emperor Doom, which we did for a comics catch-up. Mm-hmm.
01:07:04
Speaker
Next on Ted's list is Green Lantern Far Sector, numbers 1 through 12, by N.K. Jemisin and Jamal Campbell. I loved the first few issues of that and did not finish it. Same. that's Boy, that is a catch-up candidate.
01:07:18
Speaker
That's definitely a catch-up candidate, yeah. Because I really liked those first couple issues. It's good. i mean ah what i yeah I liked what I read of it. here's Here's the here's thing, folks. Here's the thing.
01:07:30
Speaker
If we ever skip a week... If one of us is sick or gets hit by hurricane or ah or or you know it's Christmas or whatever, and we do not record the show, I don't read comics.
01:07:47
Speaker
I'm sort of in that boat, too. Once I go back to reading comics, I'm like, well, shit, I've got i got to read three of these to catch up. So that's how it happens with the books that I like.
01:08:00
Speaker
yeah And I try to like catch up on stuff that i I skip. Like, I caught up on the Uncle Scrooge book, and I caught up on the ah another book that you read the first issue of and said was good over the past couple weeks. But like it doesn't always happen. And then it's like, well, now I'm four issues behind, now I'm five issues behind.
01:08:18
Speaker
and then we had to make a whole other show for it. Yeah, I mean, basically any comic published after, I would say, 2016. twenty sixteen
01:08:31
Speaker
that's pretty much it. That's pretty much what's going to happen. Yeah. Because our lives got a lot busier and the comics we're reading, we're reading to review on the show.
01:08:45
Speaker
Yeah. And so it's having a book that would like, especially since we got to like spread out or we usually want to spread out the comics we review.
01:08:58
Speaker
Um, yeah it's hard it's it's hard It can be hard to keep up. yeah That is all to say ah we should definitely – I mean, that's the no poll necessary. That should be Comics Catch-Up because that that was – I have no reason to believe that that the following half of that book was not as good as the first half.
01:09:18
Speaker
Yes. we We have two other catch-ups we need to do first. Probably for Dawn. jeff Cry for Dawn is not on the list. Oh, okay.
01:09:30
Speaker
Cry for Dawn is also not a story. Not a single story. It's an anthology. Okay. um The book that's just called Dawn, I think, is is a narrative, one single narrative.
01:09:44
Speaker
But Cry for Dawn is is fully an anthology book, like heavy metal style. Okay. but Weirdly. Is Dawn in it?
01:09:55
Speaker
Yes, but I think they're just like short eight-pagers. yeah and We don't know nothing about Joseph Michael Lindster's Dawn. i I only know what I saw in ads.
01:10:09
Speaker
She wears stockings, and the pattern in the stockings is skulls, and that seems really hard to draw. it's Her shirt is also made out of stocking who that has that skull pattern as well.
01:10:25
Speaker
It auto-completed to Joseph Michael Lindsner Dawn when I was just looking. Well, we've Googled it many times. Yeah. Because we're but Dawn Curious, is what we are. she Yeah, her top is sheer. Sometimes?
01:10:43
Speaker
Sometimes. she She wears different things. Yeah, I guess Dawn does wear a lot. Dawn is not... You can't confine Dawn to a single aesthetic.
01:10:55
Speaker
That's true. um but But we've said that we're going to read Godzilla. Okay. The James Stokoe Godzilla book.
01:11:05
Speaker
Which we said we were going to do for October. Which, he's not a Halloween monster, but, you know, Halloween-y enough, I guess, to do in October. Now, Matt, I'm goingnna send you this real quick. this um Is this something about Dawn? This Dawn action figure ah no Comes with a cool sword.
01:11:29
Speaker
A pretty cool sword. so a little It's a little busy. I mean, it's a little busy, but yeah, we got some... Stormbringer's pretty busy.
01:11:40
Speaker
Sure. But Dawn is frequently pictured with various swords. Yeah, it all there's also masks in there. But they would not fit on her figure, because...
01:11:53
Speaker
most a lot of her face is covered with hair. Yeah, she's a real she's a real bangs covering the eyes sort of design. So who are those masks for? i mean i think the masks are a metaphor.
01:12:06
Speaker
alright. They do look like the drama or the comedy and tragedy masks. so I want someone who has read Dawn to send us an email where they give us three different things that Dawn could be about.
01:12:29
Speaker
And one of them is real, and the other two you make up. And Matt and I will try to guess what Dawn is about. Fascinating.
01:12:40
Speaker
Because it really could be anything. It really could be anything, yeah. i
01:12:50
Speaker
I sort of have a guess as to what I think it's about, but like here's the thing. The ads never said anything about the story. No. it was it was just it was just Joseph Michael Lindsner's drawings and paintings of of Dawn.
01:13:11
Speaker
I think she might be an angel. That's as far as I'm willing to guess. Okay, okay, okay. ah But we we we had Stokogodzilla, and then we also had the Matt Wagner Spirit on on the docket.
01:13:29
Speaker
And then we can do Far Sector after those, probably. Okay. okay So I'm getting a subtle hint that you want me to stop talking about Dawn.
01:13:42
Speaker
I mean...
01:13:45
Speaker
ah If we're going to do it for a catch-up, we've got at least know what to read. And Cry for Dawn is not a story. um it's it's it's It's an anthology.
01:13:58
Speaker
Well, I don't want to look it up and learn anything more than what I already know. So, someone who's read it... multiple Dawn action figures.
Superman: Funeral for a Friend
01:14:16
Speaker
Okay, the first issue of Cry for Dawn ah has one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, or six stories in it, and then a word from the author.
01:14:30
Speaker
Okay. The story that's called Dawn is a single page. Okay. Now, I think the first story is ah about Dawn?
01:14:45
Speaker
Or is she just like the host, like the cryptkeeper? Ooh, she might be like a cryptkeeper.
01:14:53
Speaker
matt i don't know. and she's wearing like a body she's wearing jeans and a bodysuit, and the bodysuit is the stockings.
01:15:04
Speaker
It's the skull pattern, so it's it's very see-through. ah But she also has a chain wallet.
01:15:11
Speaker
That all makes sense. That all makes sense. the Okay, the page that was just labeled Dawn in the in the table of contents was just a pinup. Okay. um So I think I know less now than I knew to start.
01:15:27
Speaker
Well, we know she's got a chain wallet and maybe multiple swords. We don't know that that's a wallet. That could just be a chain. That's a chain. I sent you the picture, Matt. That's a chain wallet for sure. ah All we're seeing is the chain. We don't know if there's a wallet attached.
01:15:44
Speaker
So you think it what she's she's got a Zoot chain? I think it could be a Zoot chain. I think it could be a pocket watch. I think it could just be an accessory chain. someone When you write the summary of Dawn and also the two fake summaries of Dawn that you're going to send in to us...
01:16:01
Speaker
Include the Chain Wallet. The Chain Wallet must be an element of all three. Chris, we have to move on.
01:16:12
Speaker
Okay, says you, but okay. ah Ted did send in a backup, which is New X-Men number 121, Silence, Psychic Rescue, and progressv Progress, which is the Nuff Said issue.
01:16:26
Speaker
That is part of another story. That is part of another story. It's good, too. I like it. That's part of the ah E is for Extinction story, more or less. Fucking Grant's doing emojis before emojis.
01:16:44
Speaker
That's true. Grant Morrison invented emojis. There were emoticons, but not emojis. Not emojis, and these are emojis, man. Yes. Alright, here's our next list. It's from the boss dog, Patrick O'Duffy.
01:16:58
Speaker
um These are underappreciated or maybe just under-discussed Superman stories from across the decades. Okay. First is Kryptonite Nevermore, a.k.a. The Sandman Saga by Denny O'Neill and Kurt Swan, which runs from Superman 233 to 235.
01:17:16
Speaker
We have ranked it. We have ranked it. Okay. Is that number 1250 on the list? All right. Next is Funeral for a Friend, the arc between the death of Superman and Reign of the Supermen.
01:17:29
Speaker
By a whole bunch of Triangle-era creators.
01:17:34
Speaker
Pretty good. I've had a bunch of those Funeral for a Friend comics. Yeah, man. How could you not? How could you not actually not? Did you have the armband? I did not have the armband. I didn't have the armband either. I wish I had.
01:17:49
Speaker
What a wild... what a What a great thing to pack in with a comic. So I think we've talked about this before. We've talked about how... Nightfall is great.
01:18:02
Speaker
And then the follow-up is not so good. Like, Night Quest is is not so good. night the night Nightfall starts out great, gets real dumb.
01:18:14
Speaker
Yeah.
01:18:17
Speaker
Death of Superman is pretty dumb. like has a As a box of rocks. A big alien monster beats Superman to death.
01:18:28
Speaker
Big bone monster beats Superman. Like, something's finally going to kill Superman. What is it? Well, it's a big bone monster, and they punch each other until they both die. Reign of the Superman fucking whips.
01:18:41
Speaker
Yeah. and And, like, people sleep on it. And the return of Superman also whips. Yes. Funeral for a friend...
01:18:53
Speaker
is a sleeper. Honestly, like it's, that's the actual story where you get what you would have wanted from death of a super, ah from death of Superman, where like characters reflect on who Superman was and what he meant.
01:19:12
Speaker
Um, and it's good. Yeah, man. It's like, it's,
01:19:20
Speaker
I think that the the triangle era of Superman is not always good.
01:19:32
Speaker
But it does always... it's It's always logical. Like, it always makes sense. Like, if you're reading those books week to week, they might be boring, and they might be kind of bad, but they don't fuck anything up.
01:19:48
Speaker
And I feel like that's a tough thing to do, as we have seen, across multiple titles and multiple creative teams. But especially tough to do in the midst of a huge event that was like front-page news for some reason.
01:20:04
Speaker
Yeah. Because nobody read comics. Nobody knew how this shit worked. I don't think I realized it at the time that these issues were coming out because I was...
01:20:18
Speaker
nine years old.
01:20:21
Speaker
But um I think if you were to go and look at these issues and ah read through them in order, because like I also like... This was back in a time when like you know I didn't care so much about reading things in order or or anything like that. And so I just kind of read these issues As I was able to get them.
01:20:52
Speaker
And I remember, but like, I definitely remember like the early issues kind of like having all of the various characters in them, which were Lex Luthor 2.
01:21:06
Speaker
That's that's ah red hair and beard Lex Luthor, the clone body Lex Luthor, who uh, had the real Lex Luthor's brain because the real Lex Luthor had, ah his, his, his body had died from radiation poisoning from kryptonite.
01:21:24
Speaker
ah Um, don't worry though. He would get his body back later because of a demon. Because of a deal with a demon. Yeah. Cause of a, cause he made a deal with the devil. Yeah.
01:21:36
Speaker
Uh, Because the clone body started to break down. Uh-huh. Because it was a clone body, so it wasn't stable. And you know, clone bodies break down. that's We know that. We know this to be true.
01:21:48
Speaker
That is a consistent, across publishers, problem with clone bodies. Absolutely. They will break down. But they go through the stages of grief.
01:22:04
Speaker
Like... That first issue, that first ah Adventures of Superman issue is all about like Jimmy Olsen and Dan Turpin not believing that Superman's dead.
01:22:20
Speaker
ah Captain Sawyer. um And like I think every stage of grief is represented ah throughout those issues. like like Everything that's dumb about death of Superman, Funeral for a Friend, like, makes kind of clever and smart.
01:22:43
Speaker
Yeah. The only thing, the only thing that I think is a problem with the story is that everyone reacts to Superman dying as though Superman is simultaneously real and also what he is in the real world, which is this, you know, well-known popular icon that's been around in 1930, since 1938 and not a guy who's been around for like four years.
01:23:23
Speaker
But like that, that's such a, a old head continuity nitpick that I, you know, that's, that's me looking for a fight. I think.
01:23:35
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I think you could also quibble with how Lex Luthor behaves here. Yeah. Because he's like as aggrieved as anybody. um But I also think that there's like truth to that.
01:23:49
Speaker
Because like when you lose somebody, even if you hate them, who has been the focus of your whole life, um you know yeah you don't know what to do. you What is subtext?
01:24:08
Speaker
There's a part in one of these issues, I forget which one it is, there's a part where Lex Luthor smashes a chair over the dead body of Doomsday, and it's like, it's supposed to be sad, but it's like actually really fucking funny.
01:24:21
Speaker
Yeah. I really love that there's a part of this comic where a guy is literally selling Death of Superman merchandise, including an issue of the Daily Planet that says Superman dead, which they did make.
01:24:40
Speaker
like Like, they did make that. Oh, they definitely did, yeah. That is polybagged with a Superman funeral armband, which they also did make. And Bibbo Babowski is like, what the fuck is wrong with you? oh Bill Clinton shows up in this.
01:25:02
Speaker
Oh, of course he does. no I think um this like really goes to show how... Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, yeah. It's in Action Comics number 685.
01:25:16
Speaker
Lex Luthor goes in to see Doomsday's dead body. and And he says, the murderer, Tuesday, is this his body? Or he says, is his body here?
01:25:29
Speaker
You got do it in an Australian accent, Matt, because don't forget Lex Luthor 2 was Australian. Lex Luthor 2 is Australian, yeah. ah And he goes, so so this is the beast that killed the hero.
01:25:40
Speaker
The beast that killed the hero. It isn't right. Just not right. And the coroner's like, what do you think you're doing? And he just smashes a chair over the body of Doomsday.
01:25:52
Speaker
And it's it it is mine. He's thinking Superman was mine to kill mine. um But it's just so funny. yeah But like one of the big problems with the death Superman is that like Superman's killed by this new character who you know, is and nothing.
01:26:15
Speaker
Like, Doomsday is nothing. yeah And, like, so one of the problems is, well, like, if anybody's gonna kill Superman, it should be Lex Luthor. But you get to see Lex Luthor reacting with that exact thought, which is kinda good.
01:26:31
Speaker
Well, and it's also, like, this is the second issue, and this is the anger issue. So, like, Lex is mad, Supergirl's mad, Supergirl just goes out and, like, is like, I'm just gonna fuck some dudes up.
01:26:43
Speaker
And that's what she does in this issue. but That's the issue where it's um the Action Comics number one cover, but with Supergirl on the cover. She does smash that fucking car.
01:26:55
Speaker
That happens in the comic. dude's freakin Yes, she smashes the exact car from the cover. it's It's great. Like, Funeral for a Friend ah underrated and and like, people know about Death of Superman and they know about Reign of the Superman.
01:27:12
Speaker
But Funeral for a Friend is is the great in-between story but between this. The actual funeral issue is good. It's so yeah so it's a good comic. I like it. um like that one Which one is that one?
01:27:27
Speaker
I think it's the Man of Steel issue. No, it's it's um it's the Superman issue. It's Superman... no, it is Men of Steel. Where they've they've got up the big you know parade through the ah the street.
01:27:41
Speaker
Oh, and that's also the story where Jonathan Kent dies. Yeah. and Jonathan Kent goes to heaven and sees Superman. Yeah. It's crazy, man.
01:27:52
Speaker
i i saw I remember having the issues... I remember having the um Adventures of Superman issue with the Superman statue on the cover. Mm-hmm. Where he's got, like, the eagle on his arm. That's Adventures of Superman 499.
01:28:07
Speaker
Yeah. And I remember having the last issue of Funeral for a Friend, where Superman is literally flying into heaven on the cover, and it just says, The End at the bottom. Yeah.
01:28:21
Speaker
and that The funeral continues into the Superman issue, I believe. Yeah. There's good stuff in here. oh yeah Is it...
01:28:34
Speaker
It's... the A positive and negative about it is...
01:28:40
Speaker
it It should not be your first comic. It doesn't stand on its own. You have to have at least read Death of Superman and probably have read Superman comics since 1986 to really get it.
01:28:54
Speaker
Even for people who were just coming coming in on Death of Superman, they were like, what the fuck is going on with Lex Luthor? Yeah, Lex Luthor is a young dude with long red hair.
01:29:08
Speaker
He's basically fucking Chris chris Hemsworth. Like, you know, like, what's what? That's not what I think Lex Luthor is. Super jacked.
01:29:19
Speaker
yeah Beard with no mustache. such a Australian. Australian.
01:29:27
Speaker
But, like, if you have been reading, it's a rewarding book. There's just good stuff. Again, it's one of those comics that you have to have read and a hundred other comics to get.
01:29:39
Speaker
i I think I was getting to this point, and I don't know if I made it. I think it demonstrates what a deep bench of supporting characters the Superman books had at the time. Yeah. Yeah. like like You had all that stuff about Morgan Edge and his scathing tell-all book.
01:29:58
Speaker
I mean, it's the it's the most Jimmy Olsen had gotten to do in a decade. And, like, i can't Cat Grants in here? Like... um like They're really like digging into the digging into the supporting cast. well I'll tell you what, though. I'll tell you what, Matt.
01:30:15
Speaker
and I'll tell you what. Tell me. That issue of Adventures Superman, where Pa Kent goes to heaven and sees Superman, that fucking Jerry Orway Tom Grumman shit.
01:30:28
Speaker
Woo! That's good with the comics. That shit is good to this day. Jerry Orway. Shows up! Kismet, who's DC's Eternity?
01:30:41
Speaker
We've talked about it many times. ah Jerry Ordway. We'll stand for Jerry Ordway forever. One of the best.
01:30:53
Speaker
One of the best. one of One of the best to ever do it. yeah and's Tom Grummet, also one of the best to ever do it.
01:31:02
Speaker
Yeah, I vaguely remembered that... um Jonathan Kent also died in this story. Well, he comes back. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Because Superman kicks him out of heaven. um Man, that issue that issue looks good as hell.
01:31:22
Speaker
that And that panel where like um Superman is ah being like carted off to heaven, Krypton heaven, like the Krypton funeral procession, is not...
01:31:36
Speaker
a, like an homage, but the the way he's posed is the same as he is in the original like Silver Age Death of Superman, when all the little Kandor guys are carrying him.
01:31:49
Speaker
Now, I do have to note that the the issue Adventures of Superman 500 is not part of the Funeral for a Friend story. It's in the Funeral for a Friend trade paperback.
01:32:01
Speaker
it's It's not technically part of the Funeral for a Friend story. Well, no, it's... it's
Reflecting on Comic Rankings and Opinions
01:32:07
Speaker
it's But it is but too it's between Funeral for a Friend and Reign of the Superman. and Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
01:32:15
Speaker
I think we may have ranked that one issue. That's a good issue, man. That's a good-ass comic. Yeah, we did. We ranked it. Where did we rank it? 1269. should be higher than that.
01:32:28
Speaker
I forget why we put it down there, but we did. um Probably because you have to have read a hundred other comics. Yeah. Somebody's going to go back and find where we ranked that, and they're going to you guys said this thing fucking sucked.
01:32:45
Speaker
And the funeral refrain was ass.
01:32:50
Speaker
you guys du You guys do not remember anything you say. i mean, look, we reserve the right to contradict ourselves. Yeah, listen, we ranked that two and a half years ago, so it's we we know a lot more now.
01:33:03
Speaker
i um I would put Funeral for a Friend higher. and For sure. I think that single issue is is really good. but i mean i would In retrospect, I would also put it higher.
01:33:16
Speaker
But like we've said, it's top-heavy list. It doesn't get bad until like 1,300. yeah um How do we put that below Green Arrow Quiver, though? Come on, man. The fuck?
01:33:28
Speaker
Christopher Matthew. Yeah.
01:33:36
Speaker
Where you want to put Funeral for a Friend?
01:33:41
Speaker
We have Nightfall at 839. It's not as good as Nightfall. I feel like it should go higher, but it is not as good as Nightfall. It is not as good as Nightfall. No. And
Character Critiques and Comparisons
01:33:54
Speaker
and i think we've been high on this as we've been talking about it, but i do have to stress there are parts of this story That are definitely stupid.
01:34:10
Speaker
I mean, yeah. Yeah, it's not like these books suddenly got smart in the span of one month. Like, there's a bunch of shit in here about Gangbuster. like Hey, he's in the cast. He's part of that big cast you like.
01:34:24
Speaker
He's part of that big cast. Cat Grant. Grand Troop. Gangbuster. Supergirl. For a second. It's like, hey, maybe Gangbuster's going to be the Superman replacement.
01:34:35
Speaker
No, he's not. well Which would be wild, because Gangbuster used to be Superman. um
01:34:44
Speaker
Superman was Gangbuster, and then this is a different guy who's Gangbuster. This is Jose jose Delgado, yeah. Gangbuster's symbol is the dumbest symbol in the world. That's the dumbest symbol in the history of comics.
01:34:55
Speaker
It is a a um crossbar, is that what that's called? it's called Well, it's called a bar c sinister map. Bar sinister, right, yeah. um It's commonly referred to as the no smoking sign.
01:35:08
Speaker
It's a bar sinister over a fist. Over a raised fist. Yeah, it looks like he's not into like the Black Power movement. That's what it looks like. or Or solidarity.
01:35:19
Speaker
yeah Gangbuster costume sucks.
01:35:24
Speaker
yeah Bad helmet. like but Bad. Bad helmet, bad shoulder pads. Gangbuster sucks. Mostly brown costume. It's brown and yellow.
01:35:35
Speaker
I mean, love Wolverine. It has a brown and yellow costume, but... Yeah. I like Wolverine's brown and yellow costume. I do not like this brown and yellow costume. That's gotta to be why they picked that color scheme for Gangbuster.
01:35:48
Speaker
ah Probably. That's gotta be why. Anyway. there's There's a lot of this system. but But look. look look Yes, there's there's a good amount of it that's stupid.
01:35:59
Speaker
But when stupid shit happens, like... like there's ah There's a part where Supergirl encounters Closter,
01:36:11
Speaker
who is who is essentially Doomsday, like like another Doomsday. And Supergirl just punches that dude and knocks his like bones off his face.
01:36:24
Speaker
and it's I can't say I i dislike that.
01:36:31
Speaker
That's fun.
01:36:34
Speaker
Okay, here's what here's what I'm going to say, Matt. Yeah.
01:36:39
Speaker
I don't think it's as good as that issue of Marvel Team Up where Mary Jane Watson turns into Red Sonja.
Superman's Storyline Continuity
01:36:46
Speaker
That's at $8.76. I think that's a fair like shake. But I do think it's better than Marvel Team Up $1.50, which is at $8.77.
01:36:55
Speaker
Okay, so so it's the new number 877. That does make it worse than the Doom comic with Rip and Terry are huge guts, but I think that comic is secretly good. Yeah, I mean, that's that's why it's where it is. Yeah, yeah. ah So Superman, funeral Funeral for a Friend is at the number 877. Yeah,
01:37:17
Speaker
yeah man. i i I know that we we're kind of like... This is in our sweet spot, our nostalgia sweet spot.
01:37:28
Speaker
yeah This is another Marvel 2-in-1 annual number 7 thing where somebody's going to read this and be like, this the dumbest shit I've ever read.
01:37:40
Speaker
like I know you guys said Australian Lex Luthor, but I was not really processing that you had said the words Australian Lex Luthor. ah we That's not code.
01:37:53
Speaker
That's what he is. Lex Luthor. I have such an attachment to that cover of Superman number 77, where he's flying to heaven. Yeah, man. Like... Man, I remember reading this comic when I was nine and opening it. and lookss like The first page is a big splash page of Lex Luthor.
01:38:17
Speaker
Two. And like there's an explanation of like why he's like that. I feel like But I was like, what? I have never called this identity.
01:38:30
Speaker
Never once in my life have I called him Lex Luthor II. I only call him Lex Luthor II. Yeah, that's what he is.
01:38:42
Speaker
Man, that's what he is. Yeah, man. That's him. It's him. When was born in New Zealand. Oh, yeah. i Damn. the There's a whole scene in here where like Lex is talking to Superman's coffin. Etched into my memory.
01:39:00
Speaker
Etched into my memory forever.
01:39:04
Speaker
And then, yeah, that issue ends with Jonathan Kent flatlining.
01:39:10
Speaker
Oh, man. Okay. Where are at on time? if you're going to read this, you have to read Death Superman first. And then you have to read Reign of the Superman after. Yes.
01:39:20
Speaker
I mean, that's the thing about it, right? It is definitely connective tissue. Yes. It is not a story that stands on its own. Yeah, yeah.
01:39:32
Speaker
Okay, finally on Patrick's list is Kryptonite by Darwin Cook and Tim Sale, which is the story from Superman Confidential numbers 1 through 5 and number 11. Did we? I know I read it.
01:39:45
Speaker
I thought for sure we ranked this, Matt. Oh, let's see. Let's see. ah i mean, we haven't. It's not showing up on the list.
01:39:56
Speaker
No, it's not. It's not here.
01:40:00
Speaker
I very definitely remember picking this up when it came out and reading it.
01:40:08
Speaker
Yeah. it like it this this book This book was like a big deal when it started in I want to say 2007. It was 2007 later than I thought.
01:40:23
Speaker
I would have definitely said 2003. But
01:40:27
Speaker
this was from 2007. The reason I thought we had ranked this is I remember us talking about how there's like a six month gap before the last issue comes out.
01:40:40
Speaker
Before it ends, yeah. And they were just like, fuck it, just do the next story. And I remember talking about that, but I have not read this. Oh, I have.
01:40:54
Speaker
It is...
01:40:59
Speaker
How do I say it? Like, it's it's good. Like, Darwin Cook is good. Tim Sale is, like... Tim Sale had...
01:41:14
Speaker
a lot of bad luck getting paired up with writers.
01:41:19
Speaker
too Well, I mean, in one respect, yes. In another respect, no. I mean, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm mainly talking about Jeff Loeb. Yeah, but I mean, my man's made a lot of money.
01:41:32
Speaker
but Yes, I mean, the, the, those books were successful, though not good. Uh,
01:41:46
Speaker
this was like the the This was trying to do the like
01:41:54
Speaker
Jeff Loeb Timsale Marvel book treatment to Superman. um Because you know there were those the the the Spider-Man, Blue, Hulk, Grey.
01:42:08
Speaker
Yeah, man, we've talked about it. It's the one where um where Daredevil, who is blind, writes a letter, and Spider-Man, who can see, makes tape recordings.
01:42:17
Speaker
That's right. Daredevil, yellow, Spider-Man blue. um didn't Just think, all I ask of anyone, just think about it.
01:42:29
Speaker
Just think about it for like a couple seconds.
01:42:34
Speaker
Yeah. um
01:42:40
Speaker
You know, the more I look through these, i never finished reading this story. I wonder why. Did you maybe miss the last issue? because Yeah, because it was number 11.
01:42:52
Speaker
I'm going to say something, and it's going to sound mean. And I don't mean it as mean as it's going to sound.
01:43:06
Speaker
But... Because, look, I kind of feel like everyone involved would would maybe agree.
01:43:16
Speaker
But if you read the first five issues of this book, and it's Darwin Cook and Tim Sale.
01:43:26
Speaker
And it's the first five issues of a six-part story. And then number six comes out. And it's by Jimmy Palmiati, Justin Gray, and Coy Turnbull.
01:43:38
Speaker
Not saying they're bad.
01:43:42
Speaker
They are at least different. And they are not as good, generally speaking.
01:43:54
Speaker
And I do not, again, I do not mean that as mean as it sounds, but I really like Tim Sale. I think Tim Sale is great. And I think Darwin Cook is like a the great writer.
01:44:09
Speaker
Darwin Cook was was great at like pacing out stories. Jimmy Palmiati and Justin Gray...
01:44:16
Speaker
they're a I mean, they are quite literally a fill-in team.
01:44:21
Speaker
Like, i know that it's like... I know that we don't normally talk about publication order, but man, oh man.
01:44:34
Speaker
You get a two-issue Jimmy Palmiati and Justin Gray fill-in, and then you get two-issue Edmonds, Andy Lanning, and what is this, Chris Batista fill-in? About... Beautiful Dreamer and the Forever People.
01:44:48
Speaker
And again, that's a team I like. i like There's a lot of comics by Jimmy Palmiotti and Justin Gray that I like, too. That Power Girl series with Amanda Conner. they They worked on that. That shit was good.
01:45:00
Speaker
They were the writers.
01:45:04
Speaker
I'm just saying, you kind of burn you're burning your audience with that. Yeah, I mean, I i think it was DC being in kind of just like an untenable position.
01:45:14
Speaker
um This was a time period where a lot of books were coming out late. Yeah, i I just don't know why they wouldn't just delay it.
01:45:29
Speaker
I guess because like it's a brand new book and they've kind of got it on the schedule? And probably like it was meant to be a An anthology kind of thing where like one team did an arc and then another team did the next arc.
01:45:48
Speaker
Yeah, like i mean that's how the confidential book Because there was also a Batman confidential yeah like you know rotating team. um Yeah.
01:45:59
Speaker
But having... like
01:46:03
Speaker
Doing two complete stories between the fifth and sixth parts, that is, I would argue, that's even worse than having Batman relaunch with a new number one, and then having Batman 153 come out.
01:46:23
Speaker
Well, I mean, the ah the other option was to do, like, a
01:46:29
Speaker
Spider-Man evil that men do, just not have an issue come out for like four years or whatever. Just don't put it out. But I mean, but it wasn't that long. Cause it's, it's, it's six months.
01:46:43
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And, and the weird thing is, is like, you know, as much as i as much as like, again, I'm not trying to be mean, but like, were Jim Fabiati and Justin Gray and Koi Turnbull supposed to be the team that started their story in number seven?
01:47:01
Speaker
Or were they like, hey, do a two-issue fill-in give them some breathing room? I think they were the team that were supposed to do their story with number seven. that that i but I assume that that story was just already finished, and they were like, okay, we'll put that out.
01:47:17
Speaker
I mean, you say that, but like it's how often did you see a two-issue story in 2007? I mean, but the Abnett Lanning story is also, well, it's a three-issue story. three, yeah. so It's fill-in time.
01:47:31
Speaker
Well, but in a book like this, I think a two-issue story would be more common. Yeah, you're probably right. I'm sure there's... I mean, I think Kevin Maguire did like a one or two-issue story in Batman Confidential, so you're probably right.
01:47:43
Speaker
It's just... don't know, man. It feels like there's a lot of behind-the-scenes that's kind of it inevitable. Yeah. i I wish I could like confidently rank the the main story, the Kryptonite story...
01:48:00
Speaker
But, yeah, I don't know if I ever read issue 11. um But as I recall, this was kind of like a throwback early career Superman story.
01:48:13
Speaker
um The art is definitely throwback-y. Jimmy Olsen looks like he's about 12 years old.
01:48:21
Speaker
um
01:48:24
Speaker
But, i yeah, i can't I can't confidently rank it. I think it's pretty good, but that's all I can really say.
01:48:38
Speaker
ah so,
01:48:42
Speaker
uh, issue 11 under the title editor's note, this issue is the concluding chapter of the story from Superman confidential number one through five.
01:48:51
Speaker
A word, a word. Um, so, uh, Patrick, thank you for that list. I, I, I'm afraid I cannot, I cannot, uh,
01:49:01
Speaker
As I said, I can't confidently rank
01:49:06
Speaker
the full story.
01:49:10
Speaker
Here's our next list, Chris. We're starting it. i don't know if we're going to be able to finish it in this episode. We'll see. okay ah It's from Jolene. First up Haven't read them, Jolene?
01:49:22
Speaker
G.I. Joe Danger Girl.
01:49:26
Speaker
Shockingly, haven't read it, Jolene. i You know what? that That feels like something you should catch up on for sure. That's like so up your alley. yeah I mean, yeah. but yeah it's It's surprising that I haven't read it.
01:49:44
Speaker
i i texted you and Benito about how they're doing that but like Danger Girl artist edition coming out, and I'm like, should I? I'm thinking about it. I will say it was published as Danger Girl G.I. i Joe in 2012.
01:50:01
Speaker
And aside from covers, I don't think J. Scott Campbell was involved in the creation of it at all. This is Andy Hartnell and John Royal. Yeah.
01:50:12
Speaker
With ah Philip Moy and Romulo Fajardo Jr. It is John Royal doing his absolute best impression of J. Scott Campbell, though. Yeah, man.
01:50:23
Speaker
Which, it's kind of wild, because, like, first of all, J. Scott Campbell is the selling point of any Danger Girl product. You know it. Like, you know, you're not coming here because you love the characters of Danger Girl.
01:50:40
Speaker
Like, Abby Chase. That's her name, which I know because they say it on the page. Abby Chase, who's revealed in issue one to be an agent of Cobra. Yeah. Well, she she says Abby Chase, agent of, and then there's a Cobra symbol, which i want to know how that is pronounced.
01:50:58
Speaker
I love it. It's very comic books. But also, like, Chase Scott Campbell always like did all those covers for like the G.I. Joe paperbacks. So, like, you you think old Jeff would be here wanting to draw this?
01:51:13
Speaker
Well, I mean, he did the covers. Yeah. But... mean... yeah i mean I guess somebody wanted it to come out. And so that's why he doesn't draw it. Well, and you know, yeah, you gotta to get the book out.
01:51:27
Speaker
um i'm like I'm guessing that Sidney is revealed to be a double agent. Abby. Sidney is the, ah the um oh, Elizabeth Hurley looking lady. Oh, okay. Sorry, Abby. Yeah.
01:51:41
Speaker
Yeah. I'm guessing she's probably revealed to be a double agent. I could probably tell you the entire plot of this comic without having read it, but I haven't read it. Yeah, I bet they um fight and then team up.
01:51:56
Speaker
Good guess. Good guess. You're right. You're right, Matt. She got caught by Zartan being a double agent. Unbelievable. Unbelievable. Look at the cover to um number four, which...
01:52:13
Speaker
i don't know if this is ah a J. Scott Campbell. This is not a J. Scott Campbell cover. But this has maybe like the wildest proportions I've seen in a minute.
01:52:26
Speaker
those are Those are some extraordinarily long legs. Yeah. And I mean, also, not to not to be weird about it, but notably, tiny feet.
01:52:37
Speaker
Tiny, tiny feet, yeah. And like a two-inch waist.
01:52:43
Speaker
Wild proportions. Very wild proportions. Head wider than the waist.
01:52:50
Speaker
Yeah, pretty wild. there is There is a J. Scott Campbell cover that is better. Yeah. um With Destro and Baroness. I like them.
01:53:02
Speaker
Yeah. Okay, we can't we can't rank that one. Jolene, sorry. Yeah, look, i just honestly, I'm as surprised as you are, Jolene.
01:53:15
Speaker
ah Next, Jolene, you keep trying ah Catwoman numbers 38 through 40, year two Buddy
01:53:29
Speaker
i'm ah i'm ah I'm afraid it simply has not happened The third entry on Jolene's list is Lil Sylvie from Silver Sable and the Wild Pack number 35 Strike three sounds good though i'm i'm
01:53:49
Speaker
I'm a big Spider-Man fan. Have been for a long time.
01:53:53
Speaker
ah But even for me, in 1995, a Silver Sable and the Wild Pack break-off title was a tough sell.
01:54:06
Speaker
Matt, it had Silver Sable and the Wild Pack, though. i know. I understand. I understand. um a real A real knockout of the park by Gregory Wright and Gordon Purcell. Now, what number is this?
01:54:17
Speaker
Number 35? Number 35. So, okay.
01:54:23
Speaker
I mean, this looks wild. The cover looks hilarious, yeah. I mean, fucking Battlestar's in it.
01:54:32
Speaker
The cover is great. Who's that cover by? Is it by... um it's No, it's not by Gordon Purcell. It's by somebody named Steven. Steven, 94.
01:54:44
Speaker
That is a great cover. I like it. um Does Lil' Sylvie actually appear in this comic, or is she in a backup? No, she's in a backup. She's in a backup, yeah. This like ah this is like a what-the?
01:54:58
Speaker
So the cover is the cover is just selling the the backup. Yeah. Let's see. Let's see if I... Stephen Butler. Stephen Butler did the cover.
01:55:10
Speaker
What's this I hear about you canceling Silver Sable in the Wild Pack, pencil neck?
01:55:16
Speaker
This isn't even the last issue. There's another issue. Well, there's... the ah the net Silver Sable number 36 is that Marvel Legacy thing ah that they did, where they did, like... but do you Remember when I wrote Dark Hawk?
01:55:29
Speaker
And nobody liked it. Oh. Okay. Yes, yes, yes. i i Yes, I see. it's It was not part of the actual run. It was a weird legacy number ah thing published many years later.
01:55:44
Speaker
Remember when me and Chad Bowers wrote DarkHawk number 51 and then I got told on my own show that people didn't like it? Remember that? I do remember that. Alright, well, so, okay, this is a short backup.
01:55:58
Speaker
I think we could just kind of, like, page through it and rank it. I kind of think it's funnier if we don't. and and And Jolene just keeps trying.
01:56:10
Speaker
I think we should. I think we should give jo throw Jolene a bone and and rank this four-page story. All right. so So it takes place in the offices of Marvel Comics, yeah where Silver Sable has shown up and is mad because her book's getting canceled.
01:56:26
Speaker
Yes, it's by... ah series writer Gregory Wright with art by Stephen Butler, who is the cover artist as well. Yeah. Who's doing a very kind of like cartoony style. Yeah.
01:56:37
Speaker
It looks, it looks like a what the, which means it looks like a Mad Magazine, but it looks More like someone drawing anime.
01:56:48
Speaker
Yeah. So um Silver Sable shows up at the... Note that I did say drawing anime and not drawing manga. Because that's and that was intentional. um On the first page of this, Silver Sable, her teeth are colored her the same color as her skin.
01:57:04
Speaker
um If that tells you anything. Anyway, she says... what about What's this I hear about you canceling Silver Sable in the Wild Pack, Pencil Neck? No one consulted us.
01:57:17
Speaker
I do like that her breasts are two distinct spheres. Yes. That never the twain shall meet.
01:57:28
Speaker
like They're not big enough to be bowling balls, but they're bowling ball reminiscent. Yeah. um And like one of the members of the Wild Pack who's bald has Mr. Clean on his head.
01:57:43
Speaker
like All of these various members of the Wild Pack are drawn to to look like real funny and silly. yeah And then Sandman is like looking up at Silver Sable's crotch, thinking two love hearts.
01:57:57
Speaker
I think he's just supposed to be looking up at her, but it does look like he is just staring at her crotch. Her, yeah. So um the guy the guy from Marvel Comics says, chick books don't sell.
01:58:12
Speaker
Wow. And then sends her through a trap door. It's very funny because she's going through like ah bunch of pneumatic tubes and the dialogue in that panel is, I hate visual metaphors.
01:58:23
Speaker
That's funny. That's funny, yeah. um And she winds up in the land of canceled comics. So you know this is like very Grant Morrison. very mal and I will say, I do, I gotta say, I do like this.
01:58:37
Speaker
The land of canceling comics is currently home to Power Man and Iron Fist, ah Devil Dinosaur, Black Bolt, and K-Zar. and And there are gravestones.
01:58:49
Speaker
but There's like like a character that looks a lot like Mickey Mouse in the corner crying. who This is well before Marvel was owned by Disney. Oh, yeah. um There's a a gravestone for Tomb of Dracula that says Hardy Har Har.
01:59:04
Speaker
it Which has ah an inverted cross on it, which is pretty funny. Yeah. There's a tomb for what the... And then there's one that says OMAD R.I.P. No idea.
01:59:17
Speaker
I think that's supposed to be an OMAC joke. I don't know what else it could be, but i don't know. Also, ah Luke Cage says, say, man, i don't wear this pimp outfit no more. I'm going to bust someone up for putting it back on me.
01:59:35
Speaker
Not great. Not a great joke. Then we get another panel and the ah we get reactions from ah Black Panther, ah the the Western Ghost Rider, and ah the Rawhide Kid.
01:59:51
Speaker
um And so I don't even know who this dude is.
01:59:56
Speaker
With the the silver helmet. They got me on that one. I think that's supposed to be ROM, but they didn't they couldn't it couldn't actually be ROM. Maybe?
02:00:08
Speaker
i think that's what it is. ah And also, Spider-Woman is in the next panel. so well Then a spirit shows up. A genie. A genie.
02:00:20
Speaker
and This looks like... or this looks like um either like it's ah It's a mix between the genie from Aladdin and like certain depictions of Satan.
02:00:31
Speaker
But it's colored green. Yeah. ah And they're going to oppose their cancellation. but So they need to be shown the order of... ah They need to be humbled.
02:00:45
Speaker
And then Silver Sable says, never underestimate the power of women in tight costumes. And She-Hulk, who's behind her, says, hot women! and But she's angry about it. She's angry about it.
02:00:56
Speaker
And that panel has ah Silver Sable front center with her very separate breasts. Distinct. ah um um Carol Danvers, who I don't know what her identity was at that time.
02:01:13
Speaker
Binary, maybe? Maybe. Is it the mid-90s? Maybe. don't know if she was over it already. No, no, no. Binary was later. Binary was during Avengers. No, Binary... She was originally Binary in the 80s. That happens X-Men.
02:01:28
Speaker
Okay. um Spider-Woman. ah Red Sonja. oh Scarlet Witch. And then... And then what looks like another Silver Sable, but I think they maybe just didn't color her in.
02:01:44
Speaker
That looks like another Silver Sable over on the right. Yeah. yeah um So they attack this genie man. And Silver Sable asks how her hair is.
02:01:58
Speaker
And She-Hulk says, you got some split ends, but my hair is like steel cable.
02:02:11
Speaker
Yeah, that's i mean that's kind of a fun fun joke. um ah Oh, it's Dazzler! it is It's Dazzler and she's just not colored in at all. I see. Yes, that's Dazzler.
02:02:25
Speaker
ah Dazzler makes a joke about disco being ah popular again. Yeah, because um the the the spirit, the genie guy says, how it feel to be replaced in the X-Men by a child?
02:02:37
Speaker
Which, I don't know if that's like an X-Babies joke or a Jubilee joke or what. And suddenly the genie's wearing 3D glasses that Silver Sable kicks off. ah
02:02:50
Speaker
Yeah, so he... she So the the the bad genie shoots the ladies with eye beams that make them not hot anymore.
02:03:01
Speaker
Yeah. And then... They make him like you know like like fat and old. And then we get more gravestones for Kid Cole and the new universe. Pretty funny.
02:03:13
Speaker
There's another one for Night Stalker. um But ah Sable trips the genie, knocks him over.
02:03:26
Speaker
Sable says, it's a comic book, colon, fiction, semicolon, fantasy. Anything is possible. How do you explain so many buff bodies?
02:03:39
Speaker
And then she's like, now uncancel my book and you got to promote it. Yeah. And then the genie turns back into like, I guess the editor who I guess kind of looks like Mark Grunwald.
02:03:53
Speaker
Kind of. but That can't possibly be Mark Grunwald. It can't be. but Like, the very first thing is he says that chick books don't sell? Yeah, i don't know if he's just supposed to be like a generic suit.
02:04:06
Speaker
But I mean, he's not... ah Who was editor-in-chief at the time? Tom DeFalco? No, Mark Grunwald is the editor-in-chief. I think it's supposed to be Grunwald. Mark Grunwald's in the credits.
02:04:17
Speaker
Yeah. But like, the the given reason is that chick books don't sell... yeah Which, like, is a pretty damning indictment of Marvel Comics.
02:04:33
Speaker
Yeah. and then And then he says that they wouldn't have cancelled it if she had worn the more revealing costumes that they had designed, but she refused. Which is, that raises a lot of questions.
02:04:43
Speaker
ah And then... And the the costume is one of those, like, how do you describe one of those bikinis? like like It's like the Yeah, it's like the Vampirella bikini. It's like the...
02:04:57
Speaker
Yeah. mean It's actually a one piece map. And then the editor says, got to keep these female characters in their places. And then Spider-Man, Spider-Man's hand shows up and pulls her are into like, this is a, this is a FHO joke.
02:05:14
Speaker
He says, she belongs in my group, which is a reference to the Spider-Man group editor. right it' likes Silver Sable is now in the Spider-Man editorial office as a supporting character.
02:05:27
Speaker
Yes. Which, I guess this book was not part of the Spider-Man group, which is even more confusing. Yeah. I guess it's just a Marvel Universe book. That's weird.
02:05:38
Speaker
Yeah, man. This whole thing's weird. um And then Silver Sable rips the page or rips the panel the But it's the previous panel.
02:05:53
Speaker
And she says, I will be back. And when I am, I'm going to pay a visit to those who canceled me. Then I want my own cartoon show, video game, feature film, television show, t-shirt, tie, poster. Oh, and one of those lunchboxes. but And then there's the theme park idea that I had.
02:06:06
Speaker
And maybe a but balloon in the Thanksgiving Day Parade. And then it says, that's all, folks. You know what this is? Hit me. This is a longer and worse version Of the joke of Sensational She-Hulk number one saying, if you don't buy this comic, I'm going to tear up all your X-Men.
02:06:27
Speaker
And then the last issue of Sensational She-Hulk having She-Hulk on it in the same pose going, all right, give me them fucking X-Men comics. Yeah, it's it's it's very much a self-aware She-Hulk kind of joke thing about Silver Sable knowing she's a comic book character.
02:06:49
Speaker
and And I'd say the joke hit rate in this is ah about 30%. I mean,
02:07:02
Speaker
i mean it ah it got maybe like two laughs out of me. Like two actual laughs. You heard them. Most of the funny jokes are on the gravestones. Yeah. Like the gravestone gags...
02:07:16
Speaker
Pretty good across the board, except OMAD, which we don't quite know what that's supposed to i thought maybe it was supposed to be MAD, but like MAD was still very much being published.
02:07:27
Speaker
Yeah, there's there's clearly an O. It it says OMAD. ah i don't know. Also, the Gravestone has a Star of David on it. That is also confusing, yes. Confusing, yeah.
02:07:43
Speaker
um But like so many of the jokes being about Marvel Comics being sexist
02:07:51
Speaker
in a Marvel comic, where you think... I don't know. You know, it's also like that ah Robert Kaniger, Creature Commando story that he did when that book got cancelled, where...
02:08:09
Speaker
The Creature Commandos were shot off into space with Robert Kaniger. And like and it was it was like the editors of the book being like, nobody likes you anymore, Bob. You fucking suck. Get out of here with these freaks.
02:08:23
Speaker
And it was like like a weird fuck you to DC Comics that was published in that comic as a weird backup story. Yeah. I mean, I guess there was more of that back then.
02:08:35
Speaker
And it was like the publishers were like, hey, look, we can take we can make and take a joke about ourselves. um But like also the jokes in here about being like, we shouldn't be canceled because we're hot.
02:08:48
Speaker
Yeah. But then you're going to shoot us with a beam that makes us not hot. But then we are hot. But then you wouldn't wear the skimpy costume that we designed for you.
02:08:59
Speaker
oh All of these characters who are... you know, hot lady characters in tight costumes have previously gotten their books canceled.
02:09:11
Speaker
I mean, I think that's part of the doesn't work. but It doesn't make the logical sense. But that's why they're in the land of canceled comics. Yeah, because they got there their books got canceled.
02:09:23
Speaker
And like, I would say, i mean, I would say Red Sonja has a pretty revealing costume. I would say so as well, yes. Um... i just like i and I guess I get that there's no like actual point to it.
02:09:39
Speaker
They're just trying to like do like a fun few-page backup. But like it would be nice if it had a point. Yeah, also, you know what's fucking funny?
02:09:51
Speaker
Imagine being like this mad at a book getting cancelled at number 35. It only ran for three years. It only ran for three years of probably, I mean, this was the 90s, so the sales, it's hard to say what the sales might have been.
02:10:12
Speaker
Okay. Again, I don't know how this wasn't in the Spider-Man group. I just went back to the first issue. Which, the cover of the first issue is bonkers.
02:10:25
Speaker
It's a regular cover, except the logo and Silver Sable's costume are like... Are foil. Foil. Yeah. Wow.
02:10:37
Speaker
um But, Spider-Man guest star's in it, and Sandman's been in this book the whole time. Yeah, man. Marvel editorial offices were weird in the pre-bankruptcy days.
02:10:52
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, that look, that's what that's what happened is Mark Rumolff came as her in chief and was like, how much money we spend on Silver Sable? We're going to go bankrupt, you guys.
02:11:03
Speaker
yeah um Also, Silver Sable is nude in the first issue, getting a massage. Well, that's how you get 35 issues. That's how you get 35 issues, yeah. Yeah, i don't know about this one, man.
02:11:15
Speaker
I am honestly mystified as where to rank it. um It's pretty bad. it's pretty bad
02:11:24
Speaker
like I mean, it yeah! it's It fails as a joke about Silver Sable getting cancelled. And it fails as a joke about Marvel being sexist, because
02:11:40
Speaker
as they're fighting, Silver Sable and She-Hulk talk about their hair.
02:11:46
Speaker
Uh-huh.
02:11:50
Speaker
I mean, also also it feels like it's I mean, i don't know. but we We haven't heard anything about Mark Ruhmwald.
02:12:01
Speaker
Yeah, the whole thing about chick books don't sell. thats the Boy, that's rough. How are you goingnna accuse how you going to say Mark Ruhmwald is sexist? He wrote the Superior Stratagem. Oh, man.
02:12:12
Speaker
I'm proud of it.
02:12:20
Speaker
oh man i got my um'm proud of it
02:12:25
Speaker
I want to put this pretty low, if I'm if i'm being real. Buddy, you can put it wherever you want. I think I i will not fight you on it. All right. It's not as bad as like comics that are just genuinely bad, like Amazing Spider-Man Back in Black, the story where he puts on his killing clothes, or Three Jokers.
02:12:47
Speaker
um Three Jokers is pretty fucking bad. But it's as bad as Spawn Wildcat's Devil Day.
02:12:55
Speaker
So it's you're saying it's it's as good as an Alan Moore comic? Yeah. um i this I'm putting this at the new number 1588. slightly worse than Alan Moore comic.
02:13:10
Speaker
Yeah. Better than All-Star Batman and Robin the Boy Wonder. Why is it called Lil' Sylvie? Because this can't be the first appearance of Lil' Sylvie. Because like, you know, the car the cartoon version of Silver Sable.
02:13:25
Speaker
Yeah. I don't know. was there Is there like a... I don't know, man. Check the Marvel database for Lil' Sylvie. Yeah, let's let's see if she has any character if there are any other appearances of Lil' Sylvie.
02:13:42
Speaker
She first appeared at number 25. Okay. right let's let's have a... She she has two appearances.
02:13:52
Speaker
Time for little Sylvie to come back. Why wasn't she in 36, man? i would that stuff I mean, that's, look, that's why I'd not get hired to write that book. But that's the first thing I would have done. And I'll say, like, the the ah the whole, like, drawing of her breasts consistent throughout the series.
02:14:11
Speaker
Yeah.
02:14:13
Speaker
They are, there there's some separation happening with whatever her bra situation is. Yeah. um All right, we've got to be done. ah We are well over two hours.
02:14:25
Speaker
ah If you would like to send us an every story of our list, you can do it at our email address, which is warrocketpodcast.gmail.com. Please support this show and all of our other shows by going to patreon.com slash warrocketajax to donate a monthly amount as little as a dollar a month.
02:14:43
Speaker
um If you want to get in touch with us other ways, blueskywarrocketajax.com. Tumblr, warrocketpodcast.tumblr.com. Our Discord, which we have you have to be invited to be a member of, but ask us for an invitation and we will get you one.
02:14:59
Speaker
If you want to find me and my stuff, go to mattdwilson.net. Where can people find you, Chris? Everybody can find me by going to t-h-e-i-s-b.com. That is my website, and it has links to all the stuff that I do.
02:15:13
Speaker
Bye, everybody. See you next time. Bye, everybody. forever.
02:15:21
Speaker
From this day on, let every breed of mongrel live together.