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Why is there a Diaspora?
196 Plays1 year ago
People Group Profiles on people groups that primarily came to North America as refugees.
A recent NPR article on the Rohingya Refugee Crisis
Trauma Healing Resources:
https://www.multiplyinghope.org/
https://traumahealinginstitute.org/
International Professional Workers
International Students
Stats and figures for International Students in the US
Listing of the top 500 largest international student populations by school
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Let's Talk Diaspora
00:00:06
Speaker
You're listening to the Let's Talk Diaspora podcast. I'm Bud. And I'm Rebecca. Join us as we have conversations that center around the diaspora population. While these people may be far from home, we are witnessing God use believers to share the gospel with them, which is resulting in the ends of the earth coming to know and follow Jesus.
Understanding Diaspora through Biblical Foundations
00:00:32
Speaker
Hey, welcome to episode five. Why is there diaspora?
00:00:37
Speaker
So I feel like I need to set this conversation up a little bit. And if you haven't listened to episode three, it would be really good to bridge these things together. Episode three, we talked about what are the biblical foundations for diaspora and what God is doing through the diaspora. We talked about different characters throughout the scripture, how they were dispersed, the reasons why, and how God was threading this grace and mercy piece throughout it all.
00:01:07
Speaker
Because I want the scripture to inform us and have the ability to foresee what God is doing in our day to day among people who are in the diaspora, people who are refugees, asylees, people who are international students or professional workers or people who are coming illegally.
00:01:26
Speaker
all of those ways that people are moving. If we understand the scripture correctly, I believe God is behind it. And so in our episode today, we want to unpack some of these different categories of people and how they migrate. And the reason being is because their journey
00:01:46
Speaker
how they get to where they're going greatly affects their identity. It affects how they react to different situations. And as we are encouraging you to start to engage and meet your neighbors who are from other countries, I believe this is really important that you have at least a glimpse of what potentially they could have been through.
Rebecca's Experience with Rohingya Refugees
00:02:08
Speaker
So Rebecca, with that,
00:02:11
Speaker
You have some experience, you have some firsthand knowledge of seeing a refugee community outside the United States, but it's part of the journey for many who have been a refugee and have landed in the United States. You have a great perspective to share. Would you share some of that?
00:02:30
Speaker
Yeah, but I think refugee is one of those that most of us would probably come across. But I mean, my experience particularly with refugees has been living in the country. Our family was living in the country of Bangladesh. And during the time that we were living there, there were refugees
00:02:51
Speaker
that came large amounts of refugees that came from the country of Myanmar but were the people of Rohingya people and they had been dispersed really from Myanmar because you know those people in Myanmar were saying they you know did not belong there the government it could be political as well as social religion was involved
00:03:18
Speaker
So many things were involved, but they had to leave. And a lot of them came to the country of Bangladesh and other countries, other places as well. But Bangladesh is the one that I was able to see. And those people had to come in very hard conditions.
Trauma and Survival of Refugees
00:03:37
Speaker
And many of your refugees, there are many good films out today that talk about some of the stories of refugees and the journey
00:03:46
Speaker
from them getting to from their place that they have lived to a new place and it can be dangerous. I think of a movie I just recently saw about Syrian refugees.
00:03:58
Speaker
that had to come over on boats. And that's what makes me think of the Rohingya because I feel like many of them traveled by boat and water and just desperate times and maybe feeling like they're not gonna make it. And then they land in a place where they know no one and they have no rights and they have nothing. And Bud talked about that identity, just who am I? What am I? How do I survive? And they're on that survival mode.
00:04:27
Speaker
And I think that really shows us, I mean, one of the things I think we have to be willing to do is help them in that survival mode.
00:04:36
Speaker
you know, providing things that they need and caring for them in that way, but also knowing they've gone through a lot of trauma. They may even lost a child in the process, you know, or a brother or a sister, someone in the process of traveling from one place to another and the trauma that they've seen and been involved in war.
00:04:59
Speaker
and killing and different things.
Causes of Migration: Push Factors
00:05:01
Speaker
So there's just a lot there for a refugee particularly I feel like to kind of get into there to learn you know what they're experiencing and what they're going through and help us to reach out and love them. But I think one is helping provide for those needs that they would have but also being there just
00:05:21
Speaker
presence and walking alongside them and showing that you do care and that they're not an outsider and begin to learn more about who they are. And also maybe being able to, I know it's been on my heart to learn some of those skills for relating to people in trauma. So being able to come alongside of them in that
00:05:45
Speaker
So then you can ultimately share Christ with them as you're doing all of those things. Wow.
00:05:53
Speaker
There's so much you just said. I wanna pull on a couple of those threads. So one is more, less about the story and more about like categorical. So we're gonna talk about two different reasons that people are on the move, a push or a pull. What would you say the Rohingya or most refugees, what is the cause of their migration? Is it a push or a pull?
00:06:20
Speaker
I feel like it's more of a push. They're being pushed out of wherever they are located and what they've considered home. Yeah, so especially with Rohingya, they are literally being pushed out. When we think of the definition of a refugee, and you mentioned some of these, it's like there is fear of persecution.
00:06:42
Speaker
based off race, religion, nationality. And that's partly the Rohingya, is because they are a different race, a different religion. It also could be a membership in a particular social group. And so what I'm about to say is not very political in the West, but in Turkey, there are kind of two
00:07:06
Speaker
to factions and the government who is in power basically says the other faction is a terrorist group. And so all of the people that's part of that group, they could be a refugee because they're at fear for their life, not because of their race, they're Turkish, not because of their religion, they're Muslim, not because of their nationality, but because of their membership in a particular social group. So understanding that as well.
Trauma-Informed Approaches for Healing
00:07:33
Speaker
Now the thing I did want to ask about, this is more related to the story and maybe more practical, is trauma healing. You mentioned those words trauma healing and understanding that refugees
00:07:47
Speaker
I don't know a refugee who has not experienced trauma. And so being trauma informed is another way I've heard that said. Tell us, what do you know about being trauma informed or being able to help refugees process their own trauma? I guess the things I know about that is, I mean, basically, again, just kind of coming alongside of them, caring for them, loving them,
00:08:16
Speaker
being willing to listen, being willing to see, you know, what's important to them through their eyes, whether it be, you know, a food that they're cooking, you know, or talking about their family or, you know, but just being available to present, being personally present with them. For me, that would be one thing. But I do think with trauma, you're going to see a lot of fear. You're going to see
00:08:46
Speaker
I guess, kind of seeing some of those markers of trauma, you're gonna see a lot of fear, but you're gonna, in various ways, you might see anger, even though they're not meaning to be angry, you know, or they're not angry for the reasons that we would think it's more, you know, not have worked through the issues, the trauma that they've experienced, protection over things, which could cause a lot of that anger
00:09:14
Speaker
coming out in their lives, protecting their children or protecting those few things that they do feel like possessions that they have. And I think also you'll see a wanting to
00:09:32
Speaker
have a purpose in the trauma, I think is another thing that you might recognize them trying to find purpose in the trauma. And yeah, I don't know, those are just some of the things that come to my mind regarding, you know, kind of recognizing because they're not gonna say, I need trauma help. You know, you've got to be willing to kind of see where they're experiencing,
00:10:00
Speaker
pain from the trauma and being, but again, being present and being available to them, I think is a big part of it. Yeah. There, there are, um, organizations and networks that provide trauma informed training or trauma healing training. We'll be sure to put a couple of those resources in the show notes. If you are interacting
00:10:22
Speaker
with refugees, we would encourage you to at least be exposed to some tools and resources that can help you interact with that. And if you're listening to this podcast, you are probably also desiring that they would know and follow Jesus as well. And so some of these resources actually use Bible stories to help process trauma. And so oftentimes we approach our engagement with a people as either we're meeting physical,
00:10:49
Speaker
emotional needs
Understanding Refugee Stories
00:10:50
Speaker
or we're meeting spiritual needs. Really, when Jesus came and walked the earth, I love how it starts out in Acts 1, how Luke records this. It says, in my first book, O Theophilus, I told you about all that Jesus did and said, his words and deeds. And so I think sometimes we get kind of
00:11:12
Speaker
bifurcate it in our thinking and say it's one or the other, but you can do both at the exact same time. I think that's the model that we want to follow. So we mentioned the Rohingya. Rebecca mentioned Syrians. There are a variety of reasons and places that you will meet refugees in North America and Europe. Some of those is like the Rohingya. It's governmental and societal force out.
00:11:42
Speaker
Sometimes there is a coup in a geopolitical country and the minority are forced out. It could be that it is a religious minority.
00:11:55
Speaker
And there is fear for life. So they are pushed out. It could be because of natural disasters that there was a an earthquake or that there was a cyclone or a typhoon. And it's because of that that their homeland is destroyed and there's no resources to rebuild and live. And so they begin migrating.
00:12:16
Speaker
So there are numerous reasons why, but I believe it is important for you to begin to understand your refugee friend's story. And if you've not made that friend yet, even just what are the, what is some of the stories from someone coming from, let's say for example, Afghanistan. And then I can begin to relate and understand because when someone has experienced trauma, the way they react to situations seems erratic.
00:12:45
Speaker
But in their mind, it's the only way they know how to respond. And you may have someone who is spiritually interested and open, but they are reacting in a negative way to something else. And you may say, I don't want anything to do with that person.
00:12:59
Speaker
but it could be the person that God has connected you to because he's working in that person. So why is trauma, healing, being trauma-informed important ones? We want people to find wholeness as a person in Christ, but also emotionally and processing the things they've been through.
00:13:16
Speaker
And I think, Bud, you've mentioned one great way is listening to their stories. That's one way they can begin even themselves working through that trauma is being able to convey the story, tell the story of what's happened.
Global Diaspora: The Kurds
00:13:34
Speaker
So let's think of one more example before we move on to the next category. So we've talked about the Rohingya. There's actually Rohingya in my city. And so just to bridge the circle, there are Rohingya believers. We know of at least one Rohingya believer in our city. And if you're not familiar with the Rohingya, they are very Muslim. And God is breaking through the Rohingya community in our city.
00:14:06
Speaker
in a way that he chose to do it here and not there. And I also know in Cox's Bazaar, there are numerous people who have come to faith from the Rohingya people group. And so what looks to be terrible, we saw this with the story of Joseph, what someone meant for harm, God meant for good.
00:14:27
Speaker
You mentioned Syrians. Syrians, those in Iraq, the Middle East, especially the Kurds. The Kurds are really despised by a lot of the primary people in the countries they live in. So, you know, the Kurds live in Northern Iraq, Iran, Syria and Turkey, and they have an identity around that Kurdish identity. They gather together around that identity, yet there's no country that they live in.
00:14:57
Speaker
But many Kurds have migrated all the way back from the late 80s and the early 90s because of war. But in the years since then, they've migrated because of famine, they've migrated because of civil war, Kurds fighting Kurds, they've migrated because of governmental persecution. But what does it look like to be a Kurd in the diaspora?
00:15:21
Speaker
Did you know there's curds in Germany? There's tons of curds in Nashville, Tennessee. There's curds in Hamilton, Ontario and San Diego. Well, what it looks like is they have been through a lot. So depending on when and how they came, typically a lot of people get on what they call the refugee highway.
00:15:41
Speaker
And the refugee highway is where someone has paid money to basically smuggle someone like a drug. Like there's no easy way to say it. And they are, they experienced things they would never want to experience, things we would not even want to talk about. So you have this lack of resources, but you also have this total level of abuse. Um, I've heard stories of, of single guys,
00:16:08
Speaker
who are followers of Jesus, finding women traveling alone and saying, that's my sister, to add protection because the women are just abused along the way. And oftentimes what they're promised is not delivered. And so there's trust issues. They end up in a place like Turkey or in Greece thinking that is their salvation. And they realize this is no better. And so they just, they are hopeless.
00:16:38
Speaker
But once they get to a place where they can thrive, so I think we can see that the Kurds are really a lot of refugee people. They're a success story. They're hard workers. They're smart. So now in my city, the Kurds, they own hundreds of auto repair facilities and auto care facilities. Why? Because they went to work. They were smart. They were resourceful.
00:17:02
Speaker
But we can't overlook the fact that their journey now greatly influences their identity as occurred living in the United States or Canada or Germany.
Asylees vs. Refugees
00:17:13
Speaker
So that's refugee. We spend a lot of time on refugee, but we feel like most likely the people that you're going to interact with are refugees. So the next category I'll just briefly touch on is a Si-lee. A Si-lee is very similar to a refugee.
00:17:32
Speaker
But typically this is for the United States and it may look different in other places. That person has to be inside the country and apply for asylum within one year of coming in. So they have to have another legal way to get into our country. And I'm speaking from the United States perspective.
00:17:53
Speaker
but they have to prove things very similar to that as a refugee, that their safety is in jeopardy if they return to their home country or move to another country, is the big thing. So if there's an individual security risk of them returning and they can prove it and they do this through a hearing and you can have a lawyer to do this, then you can receive asylum.
00:18:20
Speaker
if you have not participated in any persecution yourself, if you've not been convicted of any serious crimes, and all of those things. There's often a concern in migration. It's like, oh, all the criminals are just coming here. Well, for Siles, they're vetted and checked out. Oftentimes, we think of religious
00:18:42
Speaker
persecution for asylees they're coming from a country that's you know majority muslim or majority buddhist and they're christian or vice versa and there's persecution they get here and they apply for asylum but there's there's even different factions among religion so in the country of pakistan it's sunni majority
00:19:01
Speaker
But there are also Shia Muslims in Pakistan, and they are a minority. And we know stories of Asylees who have come to North America because they are Shia Muslim. And so you would think, oh, but they're Muslim. No, there's infighting even among Sunni and Shia. So Asylees get here, they apply, there's a process, but their journey is very, very similar to that of a refugee.
00:19:28
Speaker
Rebecca, what's another category? Because this category is totally different.
00:19:34
Speaker
Well, I will say we've talked a lot about those that are more in that push category. They're being pushed out of their countries and their places. But then, of course, then we look at more of people that are being pulled.
International Students: Pull Factors
00:19:48
Speaker
And the first one that comes to my mind are students. Again, I'll kind of go back to being in Bangladesh. I mean, the heart of the people in Bangladesh is much like the heart of people here in the United States.
00:20:01
Speaker
They love and care for their children, and they want to see their children succeed. And in Bangladesh, that is through education. So there are really, I guess, in some ways you can look at this student being pushed by their parents, but also being pulled to the United States regarding the quality of education that they can receive, or even in Europe or different countries and places.
00:20:29
Speaker
So there is a student, a student can come over and receive education and that is a great way for them to better their society back in Bangladesh or whatever country they've come from. Or maybe even then to as God leads or as the picture plays out, they may end up staying in the country they have gotten their education in or move on to a different country.
00:20:58
Speaker
after they've received those skills in that education. So a student
00:21:04
Speaker
And I think that kind of goes hand in hand with that profession worker, somebody that's got a profession could easily move from one country to another as well, due to the education and the profession that they've become very well known for and experienced in, could take them to another place. But again, that's more of that pull instead of a push. But do you have some more that you'd want to say on those?
00:21:34
Speaker
Yeah, let's think about the student, the international student, because there are a lot of universities in North America and Europe. And if you're listening, the chances are you live close to a university, you maybe went to a university, there's a university and driving distance, and especially the larger universities are going to have really large
00:21:59
Speaker
international student populations.
Engaging with International Students
00:22:02
Speaker
Some more than others. I've heard some larger universities that have 50, 60, 70,000 students, that 10% of their student body are internationals. So if you think of a large 50,000 student body, 10%, that's 5,000 international students. And that is such an opportunity, one, to engage people who are potentially coming from
00:22:29
Speaker
you know, gospel deprived areas, knowing that the majority of them are going to return and how they are going to impact their country. So you said, Rebecca, they could go back and impact their, their economy, but they can also go back and impact the spiritual life of that country. And we, we have to think we've mentioned this a little bit. Our focus is really on the diaspora who are unreached.
00:22:56
Speaker
But I have worked with many international students who are believers to reach out to those people from unreached people groups. And so maybe if I can unpack this a little bit, a lot of students come from Latin America, Guatemala, Mexico, Honduras, and they were born again believers.
00:23:22
Speaker
A lot of students come from China and they are born again believers, Korea, Brazil. And whenever I think of who are the primary unreached people groups on our university campuses by number, it's Chinese, Indian, Pakistani, Bangladeshi,
00:23:43
Speaker
are those are the regions that we're seeing a lot of international students. We used to have a lot of Saudi international students. Those numbers have went down in the last few years. But when I think of, if they're at the university in an English speaking city, they have to have a level of English proficiency. And so some of the barriers of entry that you have with refugees is language. With international students, you do not have that boundary
00:24:13
Speaker
But then let's think of like my Guatemalan or my Mexican friend who are, they love Jesus and they love making disciples. They are actually probably better at reaching South Asians than I am. Because they, if you're listening, you don't see me. I'm just white, right? I'm just pasty. But you get a South Asian and a darker skin Latino and they're like, you look like me.
00:24:42
Speaker
and they have the shared language of English and then even their culture, like we are so individualistic in the West, but our Latino Hispanic friends, they are so much more family oriented, they're communal, they're group thinking, they're so much more hospitable. They are so much better at this. And so then maybe our role is,
00:25:05
Speaker
supporting and equipping those international students who are sharing classes with these people, that they can be in the same type of groups on campus. And so for me, being a little bit beyond college age, it's a little awkward for me necessarily to go. But if I'm going and I'm connecting with people and I'm training them, I'm going alongside them and saying, you can do this,
00:25:31
Speaker
What I believe is then we will see students reaching students, diaspora reaching diaspora through the international student population. Not that I'm saying I'm not going to do that, but I'm saying maybe a good way to do this is equipping our Korean friends, our Latino friends, our Chinese friends. We think Chinese is unreached and there are millions of Chinese who are not following Jesus, but China has a vibrant multiplying church.
00:25:57
Speaker
We can learn from them while they're here. So when we think of the diaspora, it's like we are not the ones who have it figured out. Let's receive those people who are our brothers and sisters and say, maybe you can help us because we don't have this thing figured out. And I think that's a posture of humility and it's honoring to Christ. And ultimately, I think he will use all of his body of Christ to reach all the peoples and nations. He's not going to just use
00:26:26
Speaker
Canadians and Americans and Europeans. We've had our time. Now we're seeing the Global South is really taking on the mantle of completing the Great Commission. And I just want to, I just want to be a part of it, Rebecca. I know me too. And I just, it gives me this big picture of the Big C, what I call the Big C, the church.
00:26:48
Speaker
the whole church, not the little C, our individual little churches all around, but that big C where it's all of us out working together and bringing others to know him. And again, I guess it's through those opportunities of relationships can be so vast. It could be with a refugee, it could be with a student, it could be
00:27:09
Speaker
sharing with a student that's then sharing with another student, or encouraging discipling a student that then is sharing with another student. Just the opportunities are vast-less. And we haven't even to talk about the other pieces.
00:27:25
Speaker
Yeah, even talking about those relationships and the big C church.
Professional Diaspora Workers in IT
00:27:30
Speaker
Another one of those categories, like you mentioned, are the professional workers. So like someone who's coming with like an H1B visa. So like that means they have a specified professional or academic field.
00:27:42
Speaker
and they can come here for multiple years. And so there's a whole process for someone to come with an H-1B visa, but typically they're working in IT, not always, that's just what I've seen is pretty common. They're working in some sort of IT category and typically, you know, it's someone from South Asia, like, you know, an Indian or a Pakistani, they're brilliant, they're engineers, they're IT professionals, they're computer scientists, majors,
00:28:09
Speaker
And we need them here in the West. And so we have companies who will basically go recruit them and they come here. But the reason why I'm saying this is important is oftentimes we think about, oh, we need the missionaries. No, we need professionals in our churches to know how to engage the Indian, the Chinese, whoever it is that they're working next to.
00:28:34
Speaker
that if they're here with an H-1B visa, there is a timeline on how long they can be here. Ultimately, they can apply for green card, but it could be three years and they're gone. With international students, oftentimes they're coming as graduate students. It could be just two or three years and they're gone, so we have to look at the timeline and the urgency of
00:28:54
Speaker
We can't let time pass us by. And then the next thing I know, I've worked with this person for three years. They're going back to India. I've never shared the gospel with him. He's going back to a country that, yes, they have believers there, but there's so many people. He could literally live his entire life and never hear the good news. How can we let that weigh on us as the church when we know that there's people in our churches who do those jobs?
00:29:22
Speaker
and they work alongside them. So we have to figure out, I don't think we're doing a good job right now. We have to figure out how to cast a vision for this is what God is doing. Your Indian coworker is working because he needs to hear the gospel.
00:29:37
Speaker
Right. And he's working next to you because God has planted him right there beside you. And why wouldn't you take the opportunity to build a relationship with them and be able to get to know him outside of work and being able to share with them? But I will say, I think in my experience so far of being in kind of that North America or Western culture,
00:30:00
Speaker
sharing with somebody in the business world is a difficult thing. I mean, even in our Western culture, it's difficult to share with those of us because we're all looking to succeed what we consider succeeding here on earth and trying to do better in our work and our jobs. So finding time with those that are working, that have come, and that could be your refugees as well.
00:30:29
Speaker
It's hard and so it really takes a lot of time from us as well to make sure that we might need to stay up later one night to go and hang out with a friend or a new friend. We might have to get out of our regular routine because they're trying to work all the time. That's so key.
Sharing the Gospel with Diaspora Coworkers
00:30:54
Speaker
I think too we have to realize that just inviting these people to our churches
00:31:01
Speaker
I don't want to say it's not going to work because I don't want to limit God. It doesn't appear to be what connects with them culturally. For many people coming from other cultures, conversations that are meaningful related around spiritual, economic, political things, they happen after 10 p.m. So you said you may have to be willing to stay up late.
00:31:26
Speaker
And I will say that it's a lie of the enemy that we can't share the gospel at work. It really is. It's fear, because what is it? I said this in a previous podcast is what I believe, and this is my conviction, so I don't want to impose it, but just share. If I'm making a decision based off fear, it's probably not of the Lord.
00:31:48
Speaker
Now we want to be informed, right? But if it's like, if I do this, I'm going to lose my job. That's totally fear. And I just think if we, you know, episode three, we kept on going back to the scripture. If we go back to Daniel, Daniel was totally faithful to God. He said hard things to the King, but God kept raising him to position.
00:32:15
Speaker
in spite of everything you did, King Nebuchadnezzar, you are going to be like an animal and you're going to group around like an animal. And at different times did Daniel face challenges? Yes, but God kept elevating him for his purposes and for his glory. And I believe that if we work
00:32:34
Speaker
And in a job where we're working with unreached people groups, people that are come as professionals, if we're a student and we're, we're working alongside Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Sikhs and classes and on projects and you have a fear that man, things aren't going to go well. If I share the gospel, I believe God is with you.
00:32:55
Speaker
He will elevate you, or maybe he will bring you down to a different position to further his glory and his purpose. But the thing that we have to remember, and we can close with this, Rebecca, is ultimately it's not about us. It's not about my success. It's not about my comfort. And that's a hard saying.
Building Relationships with Diaspora
00:33:18
Speaker
but I believe that God is doing something among the diaspora today. And in today's episode, we shared just a few ways that people come here. We're talking about why is there diaspora, refugees, asylees, international students, professional workers. There's other categories, but I believe this is going to address the primary people that you're probably interacting with on a daily or weekly basis.
00:33:42
Speaker
Yeah, and just, I think, too, we want to continue to encourage each of us to be faithful in building those relationships with those that are in the diaspora and being available to them, but also continue to share Bible stories and share truths that we know and be there with them and that Jesus would be glorified and honored through our words and our actions as we interact with them.
00:34:11
Speaker
So thank you for listening to this episode of Let's Talk to Aspira. To help us out, hit the subscribe button so that you will be notified when future episodes launch. This season is sponsored by UPG North America. Go to UPGNorthAmerica.com for more information.