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The End of Burnout: How to Align Your Work and Wellbeing
30 Plays19 days ago
In this conversation, we explore:
- Why “hustle harder” isn’t the path to true success (and what to do instead)
- How to set clear boundaries without sacrificing results
- The role leaders play in creating safe, high-performing teams
- Practical ways to align your work with your values and personal rhythm
Executive Leadership Coach Stephanie Woodward shares her own journey from being a self-described “productivity addict” to creating a healthier, more fulfilling relationship with work. We dig into the shared responsibilities of leaders and team members, the underrated power of psychological safety and resilience, and the importance of knowing your own limits. Whether you’re leading a team or navigating your own career path, this episode will give you practical tools to align your productivity with what truly matters, so you can enjoy your career without burning out.
Stephanie Woodward, the founder of Agency to Change, works with individuals, leaders and organizations to optimize their approach to work, leadership and workplace culture. She is the creator of the Conscious Productivity assessment, host of the newly released Conscious Productivity Podcast, and author of the #1 Amazon bestseller The Big Scale Back: Success and Balance By Your Own Design.
Take Stephanie's free Conscious Productivity Quiz and get your personal productivity profile: https://conscious-productivity.scoreapp.com/
Connect with Stephanie on Instagram: @agencytochange
We are getting many requests these days for help with managing stress and navigating all of the change happening around us. So, we are offering free Stress Management workshops, both in person at our training facility in Burlington, Ontario Canada, and online via Zoom. Learn more and register here: https://www.hypnosistrainingcanada.com/stress-management-workshop
Learn more about how Robbie Spier Miller’s coaching, training, consulting and speaking opportunities can help you enhance your personal and business performance here:
https://www.hypnosistrainingcanada.com
https://www.mindlinkconsulting.com
@hypnosistrainingcanada
@robbiespiermiller
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Transcript
The Pursuit of Happiness and Career Success
00:00:00
Speaker
When I was starting out my career, I was pleasing. So all of it was externally driven. It went from how do I make my parents happy, my teachers happy to how do I make my bosses happy? How do I make the board happy?
Introducing the Habit of Possibility Podcast
00:00:11
Speaker
Welcome to the Habit of Possibility podcast, the show about turning obstacles into opportunities. I'm your host, Robbie Spearmiller.
Guest Stephanie Woodward on Leadership and Burnout
00:00:20
Speaker
Today, we welcome Stephanie Woodward, executive leadership coach and founder of Agency2Change for an interesting exploration of how leaders and employees can escape burnout and honor their mission and their health and well-being while building successful careers.
00:00:38
Speaker
Hello, everybody. i'm Robbie Spearmiller, your host for the Habit of Possibility podcast. Today, I'm really excited to have a conversation with Stephanie Woodward, who's an executive leadership coach and trainer.
Choosing Conscious Productivity
00:00:50
Speaker
And we're going to talk about how we can choose how we're being productive or how we contribute and how to create those choices for ourselves. And Stephanie is an expert in this. It's definitely a theme I'm very interested in.
00:01:03
Speaker
And I think something that a lot of people need to create better possibilities about these days. So welcome, Stephanie. Oh, hi, Robbie. I'm so excited to be here for this conversation with you this morning.
00:01:14
Speaker
Yeah, likewise. Yeah. So tell me some background, like what got you interested in specializing in this area? Oh my goodness. so i um I talk about it now, what I call it is conscious productivity and where it began, i think for many of us will have a story where something that was potentially our downside became our upside. And so for me, I've been a little workaholic and a productivity addict since I was about four years old.
00:01:43
Speaker
I would be that person, mom, how can I earn 25 cents to go and buy my little pony? That was me at like four and five years old. Like I got this idea of trading my time for money. And how was I going to do that? I was the one with a lemonade stand. I was the one um doing swimming lessons with kids in the backyard. When I was little, I was babysitter's club trying to get that started at the age of 11. And so I had this huge problem drive in me a really good work ethic, a lot of ambition. I loved creating. I loved doing. I loved that feeling of I'm getting something done and now I get rewarded for it and I can do something with it. So I had this real natural drive.
The Impact of Hustle Culture on Health
00:02:20
Speaker
Now, of course, you take that into the corporate world. I was a little corporate darling. People loved me. I would show up. I'd be there early. I'd stay there late. And so My productivity habits, I really got into hustle culture.
00:02:33
Speaker
And so I found myself really hustling for hustle's sake. And it worked like a charm. I climbed that corporate ladder. um i would have people saying, how did you get to this level in corporate life so young?
00:02:44
Speaker
um And of course, as I kept doing that, I wasn't necessarily paying attention, and we'll talk about this in more detail, to what really mattered to me. It was hustle for hustle's sake. I was producing based on a lot of other people's agendas.
00:02:58
Speaker
And it led to a lot of burnout for me. It led to health issues. And it led to me really having a big awakening in my mid to late 30s. what Taking stock, where the heck am I in my life? So we'll start there. That's a bit of background. And that led me to be really obsessed with how are we approaching our work? How do leaders influence our workplaces?
00:03:19
Speaker
um How are our workplaces supporting us? What's their role in supporting us? And how do we support ourselves through productivity and work? Right, yeah, that's such a great story. And Stephanie, I used to work in the corporate world.
00:03:32
Speaker
And I was different from you in that i I really wanted to contribute and do a good job, but i I did not have the capacity to do what you were doing, like I would reach a limit, and then I needed a break.
00:03:44
Speaker
And I remember feeling like, you know, there are these other people who are willing to work all hours and they were getting opportunities I wasn't getting and having a sense of unfairness about it.
00:03:55
Speaker
And, yeah I remember somebody saying to me, you know, there'll always be somebody who's willing to work harder and longer than you. and or who is more capable than you in various ways, and it's got to be okay. and And that was something that was kind of a tough thing for me to accept because I was very used at to excelling.
00:04:14
Speaker
And so I think that it's it's a kind of a moment where we have to take ownership of our own choices and our own capacities in a real way. And also have a sense of mission because what i what I'm getting from your story is that you didn't know what your mission was.
00:04:30
Speaker
Your mission was prove you could do it or please other people. It wasn't doing something beyond that that actually mattered. Yes. Oh, and Robbie, what you said, something in there that you said is so wise. So when you, so you're a hundred percent right.
00:04:46
Speaker
And I will say this to anybody who's listening.
Overwork, Limits, and Internal Compasses
00:04:48
Speaker
um The people we glorify hustle. We glorify being at the desk for 18 hours, pulling all nighters at the workplace. Bosses are always going to love that.
00:04:58
Speaker
Right. No one is goingnna no one's going to stop you from doing that except to you. And so what you said there about you knew your own limits, that is something that I think when I was starting out my career, you're exactly right. I was pleasing. So all of it was externally driven.
00:05:11
Speaker
ah It went from how do I make my parents happy, my teachers happy to how do I make my bosses happy? How do I make the board happy? And that can be fine, but not when you're out of touch with your own inner compass. So for you saying, I knew my limits, I didn't know my limits.
00:05:25
Speaker
And when you said other people seem to be able to do this without hitting the limit, yes, they do. They do hit the limit. They just weren't necessarily aware of it in the moment that that was going to happen. And so... you're exactly right. And so the question is now, what do we do about it? And so that piece around knowing yourself, when I talk about conscious productivity, one of the components, right, it is clarity.
00:05:45
Speaker
It's exactly what you're saying there. How do I know myself? How do I know the proper placement for me? What are my values? What are my needs as an individual? And those might differ from what the organization wants from how my parents taught me to be around productivity, around what my friends are doing, what my neighbors are doing.
00:06:04
Speaker
But how can I find that comfort within myself to say, I need clarity on my own North Star? What is the relationship I want with my work? What is the relationship I want with productivity and the rest of my life?
00:06:15
Speaker
How does it fit into that bigger ecosystem of my life? Yeah, yes. And it's an interesting dilemma because you know i when we have capitalism and the way companies function, um it's you know everybody's competing because you want to contribute the most so you can make money, which is the whole purpose of a company, which is the way it is.
00:06:37
Speaker
And so of course people who are more productive will get further deservingly so. But when you have the leadership be those types of people, then it sets the tone for the rest of the organization.
00:06:50
Speaker
And then you have other people like, you know, me as an example, who would go, it's not fair. Or, you know, why why are they getting promotions and I'm not? Or, you know, how can they possibly work that much?
00:07:01
Speaker
or people like you who are pushing so far that you're burning out. And probably in your situation, it was just that when you were younger, you could get away with abusing yourself.
00:07:12
Speaker
And then as you got a little older, it started to catch up with you, right? Like biologically, when we're young, we can do all kinds of things. but You know, maybe we can't do as well as we get older. So sometimes it's a physical reason that it catches up with people.
00:07:27
Speaker
Or it could be a spiritual reason where people realize there are they're not really having a purpose in life. Yeah. um So i I think that this is a very interesting challenge because what I've observed is that these days in our culture, a lot of people are blaming the organization and for the problems and the culture of the organization.
00:07:49
Speaker
and I'm wondering if people are taking enough responsibility for their own ownership of this because the nature of capitalism is that you are competitive. And so there's only so far a company can go to take care of you that way.
00:08:04
Speaker
Yeah. And so I think it's a, you know, I know that the word resilience has become a word you just don't say in the corporate workplace these days, which to me, it boggles my mind, because, you know, it it means something that's a really important thing.
00:08:20
Speaker
But my impression is that people feel like when you talk about resilience, you're blaming it on the individual. ah instead of the organization. And so they want to put more focus on the organizational culture.
00:08:32
Speaker
But there's only so far that can take things. I think each of us needs to make peace with our own choices or our own capacities and choose our mission within that.
00:08:43
Speaker
If you're enjoying this podcast, please like and follow us and post a review so other people can find us too. So what are your thoughts on that? Oh, so many great things here. um So first of all, I think the most important thing, because yes, we are in a capitalist environment and we absolutely, for for people to be employed, and I'll say this to employees, for you to remain employed, the company needs to make money.
00:09:08
Speaker
So we need to be getting results. We need to be bringing money in the door. ah That's going to be important. Even if you're in a nonprofit, you need to be fundraising. You need to be bringing in donor money to be able to do this. So let's all accept that. Yeah, we need to bring in some money.
00:09:20
Speaker
And there's a way of approaching that that can keep people's well-being and keep individual fulfillment in mind as well. And the secret here, I will say to all organizations, is the idea of shared accountability.
Shared Accountability in Productivity
00:09:33
Speaker
So the role for me of the employer is to say, what conditions am I creating? Am I being really clear with my expectations? And once I'm being really clear about the expectations, am I working to create team conditions where people understand one another, they understand how their work influences other people? Because most of the time, what I will say, most of the burnout and what's keeping people up at night when they can't sleep at night because of their work It's usually not because of the technical skill of their job.
00:10:00
Speaker
It's not because they don't know how to write the thing or put the put the data in the right way or put the marketing plan together or come up with the idea. What's causing the problem is, is my boss mad at me?
00:10:12
Speaker
um That team member who's always calling in sick isn't getting their work done. It's interpersonal challenges and it's being out of alignment with a boss or not really understanding your role. It's all of these interpersonal dynamics that can that often create a lot of issue. And so this idea of shared accountability, i would often say to my teams, and I did always have high performing teams. And I was the one, it's funny, I had, I would burn myself out, I would work really long hours. And that's a whole other separate topic. I don't do that to myself anymore.
00:10:42
Speaker
But I would protect my team like a mama bear, I'd be like, well, I'm not gonna let them burn out. um And yet I would say to them, here are the expectations. Here's what we need to get done. Here's what it needs to get done by now.
00:10:53
Speaker
How do you like to work best to get that done? What do you need? How are we having conversations around that? so they could find their own individual rhythm within those expectations. I would there's no real wiggle room on that deadline date. like We need to get that done by then. But how you get there and the way that works for you i I want to talk about that with you. And so that's what I really try to encourage with leaders.
00:11:15
Speaker
We set the goalposts, we set those goals, and then we work with the individuals to understand how they work best and really working those interpersonal dynamics between team members so that they're talking to each other and they're not letting each other down or having that unhealthy conflict that can show up in workplaces.
00:11:32
Speaker
I also want to say I do a lot of work with psychological safety and resilience in the work that I do, and I'm with you, and I will come right out and say it. Psychological safety and resilience is not coddling people.
00:11:42
Speaker
It is not about putting all of the expectation on the employee. Resiliency is not about learning to power through or to hustle harder. It is about building your inner strength to face challenge and uncertainty. Psychological safety is creating the conditions so that we can do our best work. And they get such a bad rep these days.
00:12:02
Speaker
um And they're such important components in our workplace. So I've said a lot there. I'll pause i'll pause there. Yeah, you're a lot it back. Yeah, so there's a lot of misunderstanding about it because we've got the buzzwords and then we have, what does it really mean? So I think some of the challenges that you're putting on the table is that We can understand the definitions, but how many people, how many leaders truly know how to put that into practice with their teams?
00:12:27
Speaker
How many team members know how to be self accepting enough to interact with that process in a useful way. And so there's there are all kinds of um things that need to people need to experience or see or communicate about that they may or may not be capable of and they may not even be aware of. They might think they're doing a great job and they're missing a lot.
00:12:56
Speaker
Absolutely. And I think here, because often can sound like, oh, Robbie and Steph, I really agree with what you're saying here, but how do how do I go about and
Self-Employment vs Corporate Politics
00:13:05
Speaker
do this? like What does this mean for me as a leader? What does this mean for me as an individual?
00:13:09
Speaker
And i think listening to your story, do you feel, and and I think I know the answer to this already, do you feel like you're thriving now that you are running your own business and thriving? um that That woman who in corporate life felt like, oh, how am I missing? I feel like I'm missing out on promotions.
00:13:24
Speaker
Or why why are i like why aren't I feeling the success that other people are feeling? Do you feel pretty successful now? do you feel like you're pretty much thriving to business? I do. And Stephanie, I'll tell you that the thing that was a big relief for me when I went into business for myself is that you know there's always mistakes. Whether you work for somebody else or you work for yourself, you're going to make mistakes. It's part of the journey.
00:13:46
Speaker
um But when I was working for myself, I felt like they were my mistakes and i could take responsibility for them and I could recover from them. My experience, my experience working in the corporate world, and it might have been the specific place I was working, was that was very political. And depending on what mistake you made and how it impacted the company, it could have been no big deal.
00:14:10
Speaker
Or it could have been a huge deal. And it's it's the same mistake. And I know a lot of other people. I was working in tech, which is a very fast paced field that changes all the time. You have to learn these new technology.
00:14:22
Speaker
Often you're on a project where it's the first time you're doing something. You're dealing with new clients all the time. It was confusing. And so there was so much change. um And so we did need space for trial and error.
00:14:35
Speaker
But the the way it was managed within the company culture was, i'd say, variable. Sometimes it was managed really well, depending on the person, right? Sometimes it was managed horribly.
00:14:47
Speaker
And so when I went to business for myself, the relief was that if I made a mistake, I i was the one who paid for it. And i could learn from it And I didn't have this extra layer of, am I going to be typecast forever? yeah this going to wreck my career? Right. Like it it wasn't to that degree. So it gave me more space to ah really learn without all that pressure.
00:15:12
Speaker
So I think that that was a magic ingredient that helped me kind of find my stride. And I'm smiling the whole time you're telling the story because anybody who is leading teams, is listening to this, or anybody who's within an organization, I want you to just listen to what Robbie just said and notice same same person, same brain, same person, and thriving. Like when you are able to say, I'm in this environment that I could, where I can test things out, make mistakes. you're not You're not making mistakes that are bringing down the business, you are doing the natural what it takes to create and innovate and do new things.
00:15:46
Speaker
Things are going to go sideways sometimes or every once in a while we're going to make a mistake and how it's handled. And like you said, it can be handled very differently depending on the leader. That's all ego. That's all our own stuff. So I will say for leaders, clarity is number one. When I talk about conscious productivity with leaders, you want to have clarity, which means like do your own work first.
00:16:04
Speaker
Doing that self-awareness piece as a leader. How comfortable am I with mistakes with change. And because you as a leader, you're setting the conditions for young Robbie, like this is not you today, this was you years ago.
00:16:17
Speaker
For young Robbie, who was in that place, who was bringing a great brain, great skills, great experience to the table, and yet was concerned if I stray slightly, is this going to be career limiting? That's a real thing. And so for all the leaders out there, how are you creating those conditions for those young, talented individuals in your organization?
00:16:34
Speaker
You want to put those guardrails in because we don't we don't want anybody to make a career limiting mistake, but let's really get real about what a career limiting mistake is. There are many there aren't that many out there. So how can you create a leader, understand yourself, your own patterns, what triggers you as a leader, do your own work first. That's why I say it's important to have a coach or a therapist or somebody, a mentor, somebody you work with to work through your own stuff so that you can show up as a leader that can create the conditions that I call it calming the team nervous system.
00:17:04
Speaker
Like how can you as the leader make it safe for people to bring issues to you and celebrate the successes? Like let's talk about the positive too. Figure out what motivates people. Understand how everybody works. Understand what season of life your employees are in. Someone who's got young kids at home is going to be different than someone who is approaching retirement, is going to be different than someone who's like entry level.
00:17:25
Speaker
yeah to know your people. And that's where i think the fun is and the real magic comes in leadership when you're when you're really starting to understand the unique gifts on your team and creating the conditions deliberately and on purpose. So that that's the number one, that clarity. What I call that clarity piece is understanding yourself as a leader and how you create those conditions.
00:17:44
Speaker
Yeah, yes, absolutely. And Stephanie, I'll add to this that when I was going through this at that company, there was a time when I said, forget it, I'm just going to go find another job. And I started to apply for other positions.
00:17:58
Speaker
And then I realized, you know what, part of this is me. So I'm going to stay and I'm going to learn how to handle my part of this. And so I did. and And that was good. It was very good that I did that because I started to own my role because I wasn't comfortable making mistakes.
00:18:15
Speaker
And then the way the company was handling it was just putting fuel on the fire. But i had ah I had my own fire regardless of how they behaved. um So, you know, I guess one question is how do we help employees handle these things better emotionally in themselves because the safer they feel, the easier it is for everybody to function better, the more they can focus on actual work instead of being stressed or burnt out because they're worried.
00:18:43
Speaker
um So I think that that's a really interesting challenge because the workplace can't mandate that that person rose themselves personally. um But I would suggest that having that experience would help the workplace a whole lot and the individual.
00:18:59
Speaker
Yeah, and this is, um and I didn't even set you up for this question. um This would be part two. So what I talk about is climate. So how, as a leader, you have to do your own stuff first because it starts at the top.
Leadership and Team Dynamics
00:19:10
Speaker
So employees are constantly watching what gets people in trouble and what gets people rewarded. What they might say, so we can have the greatest values on the wall. Usually it's some version of you know teamwork is dream work or a collaboration, service excellence.
00:19:26
Speaker
We have these words on the wall, but what do they actually mean in practice? employees are paying attention to like what is leadership actually doing. So if you say we are an environment where we welcome your ideas, we want you to innovate and then you punish people for doing exactly that.
00:19:41
Speaker
That's good. So it starts at the top. So that clarity, that's why clarity is number one. Leaders do your own work first. Pay attention to Climate is the next step. So now we're looking at the team climate and it's interesting you say an employer can't mandate that people do their self-awareness work, but they can sure bring in tools to support that, to say, hey, we're going to have a one-day workshop. And you know I'll go and I happen to use a tool called the Enneagram.
00:20:02
Speaker
Other people might use StrengthsFinders or anything to kind of build self-awareness, build an understanding around this. So how do we start to encourage people in a very safe way? And so this is really important. I'm very careful when I go in and do climate and teamwork.
00:20:16
Speaker
I want to have already worked with that leader. I want to know that leaders already done their work before we start asking people to be vulnerable and do their own self-development work. Because once you bring a team together,
00:20:27
Speaker
If the leader isn't doing their work, how are they going to be able to show up and support individuals? It's vulnerable to do your self-awareness work. It's vulnerable to start looking at your own personality and how mature of you, Robbie, to be like, I'm going to stay here because I need to own my part.
00:20:42
Speaker
That's not something that everybody says to themselves, right? Like that that is a special Robbie-ism. I wish more people would say that for themselves, but sometimes a leader does need to nudge and say, hey team, I've been doing this work myself for six months, for a year, whatever. And here's what I've learned from it. And now I want to gift this to you. And I want us to do this personal work together. So you start to understand one another on the team And that's when that interpersonal dynamics piece comes in. Now team members are starting to understand themselves, understand each other.
00:21:11
Speaker
We've deepened self-awareness in the team so that people can understand, oh, here's the role I play. that Here's how I'm contributing to the problems here. Or here's how I'm contributing to what's great here.
00:21:21
Speaker
And we start to get into a different dialogue. Yeah, awesome. And I'll say that what what helped me do that at that time was I was starting to learn exactly what I do now. So at the time I was taking courses, I started to learn hypnosis and NLP because of the stress at work.
00:21:38
Speaker
And so as I was learning, it helped me be more real with myself and also handle things in better ways. And so I i also work with with companies and in teams and individuals now with this.
00:21:52
Speaker
and it's very interesting to look at it um as outside of us like what i find helps with helping people grow through this is that they can uh step outside of themselves and say hey here are all these patterns that people do right just people in general not me or you but this is what people tend to do Which ones do you see yourself doing? And what how can you learn how to be more flexible about that? Because there might be places where it's useful and places where it's unuseful.
00:22:23
Speaker
So a lot of the work I do is helping people build their their flexibility and have choices based on their outcome of where something's useful or unuseful in terms of a behavior or a pattern of interacting with life.
00:22:36
Speaker
Because we all go through life wearing certain glasses and all we do what we see through glasses, right? So the leader of a team is going to see things one way and then each individual on the team will see things another way.
00:22:48
Speaker
And the more we can step into those different ways of looking at things, the easier it is for us to meet people where they're at and help them grow into how they need to to show up so that they can handle things that are. Absolutely. And I think what's really important, and it sounds like we both do this, is normalizing.
00:23:07
Speaker
Normalizing that we all have patterns. No one is devoid of like whether you're a people pleaser or you're this you're that. We all have these patterns. So this idea of, yeah, here ah here's the array of patterns. And as humans, we're all going to have this. And I think that's part of creating safety is just to say, let's normalize this. Let's normalize that we all we all have strengths.
00:23:25
Speaker
Every single person that's sitting at this table is bringing something great to the table. And we're all bringing personality patterns, those lenses. And um I use similar language. And it's like, how can we practice? Like, what if you put on their glasses, like their metaphorical glasses? Like, try putting those on. What do you see? Like, would isn't that interesting when we could start to say, oh, I'm just, I really am looking at the situation through my my lens. Yeah.
00:23:47
Speaker
And what in and and imagining that person picking up their lens and oh, what would that look like? And as we start to understand, it's all just lenses. And we can start to empathize with those lenses. And we take ownership around saying, maybe I can change my prescription.
00:24:01
Speaker
and yeah maybe we're I can use different glasses for yeah different day i' sorry things. Because all of those lenses are important. The problem is we always pick up the same lens and the same lens isn't needed for everything. And so how can we start to do that? I love it.
00:24:19
Speaker
Yeah. um Nina, go ahead. No, I was going to say, you said something different. I really like where you're going with this idea of like, what's the employer's responsibility? What's the employee's responsibility?
00:24:30
Speaker
um I've mentioned clarity. I've mentioned climate flow is a third piece. And this is what is the responsibility, I think, of the individual. We said right at the outset, most companies, some companies will try their best to say, um hey, do you need a vacation? like Looks like you're really burning. up How's your workload going?
00:24:47
Speaker
Doesn't happen all the time. And many high performers don't like to admit that they can't handle their workload. They don't want to say, i can't do this. So they just power through. They push through. Your organization is not going to stop you from pushing through. So what's really important as an individual is to understand your own flow, to understand what you very wisely talked about at the beginning, Robbie, like knowing your own limits.
00:25:06
Speaker
Knowing what works for you. And so you blend this with accountability. I know my role. I know what I'm responsible for. I'm a team member and I do have to get my accountabilities done. I'm not shirking my responsibilities or avoiding my role. And I'm a human with limits.
00:25:20
Speaker
So how can I start to build in what do I know are my recovery time? Like, how do I build recovery into my life? How do I build in what rhythms work for me? I know for me personally Bedtime is non-negotiable for me and that is one of the only things that saved me early in my early in my career I've never been a night owl. I've never been someone that could pull all-nighters So I even in my 20s. I had to be in bed pretty much by 1030 It's a bit embarrassing to admit now. It's 930 on weekdays like I'm just not a late-night person and so that I think saved me from serious burnout because I'd have to say to my colleagues, I'm not going to be able to pull an all nighter on this.
00:25:54
Speaker
I can get up at 5am and keep working on this, but I need my bedtime. I need to be, I will be asleep by 10. You're going to get diminishing returns from me after 10pm. I'll be asleep. But if the team wants to work late, if you guys are all night owls, you can work and I'll be up early when you're all sleeping and I'll get it over the finish line.
00:26:11
Speaker
you know, earlier in the morning. And that's an example, do I think we need to be working at 5 a.m. m and 11 p.m., not necessarily. Back in the day, that was kind of the rhythm that our team had. We we sometimes had crises. we were We were dealing with the media. We were dealing with government. We were dealing with all kinds of stakeholders where genuine gen ah genuine emergencies would happen and and crises would happen, and we had to be dealing with it.
00:26:32
Speaker
But that was me knowing my limits, and that's flow. This is the part that the individual has control over to say, it's hard to say, I'm going to take a three-hour break every afternoon. Maybe you're in business that can do that. You might.
00:26:43
Speaker
But in general, you have to blend it with, what are my accountabilities? And what do I need to manage? What helps me show up at my best? And how can I manage that for myself so that I'm giving myself rest and recovery instead of constantly powering through? So really understanding your own rhythms and what serves your body best.
00:27:01
Speaker
is important to manage alongside those accountabilities I think is important. Yes, I completely agree. And I have seen in myself and other people that a lot of the um powering through or the stress or the burnout happens because of our own insecurities or our own pressures that we put on ourselves.
00:27:22
Speaker
So the more we can be at peace with ourselves and the world around us and in kind of flow with things, take things in stride, the better because um otherwise we can rest all we want. But if we're still feeling stressed about what's happening around us, then it's we're still going to get burnt out. So I think a lot of...
00:27:43
Speaker
um change can happen with many people by by just cleaning up the insecurities they're having around what's happening or the pressure they're feeling around what's happening. And then supporting it with lifestyle like sleep and eating healthy and working out and having connections with people outside of work and things like that.
00:28:04
Speaker
Yeah, it's going from, because a lot of those insecurities are usually externally driven. It's usually because, ooh, am I measuring up? And and that's that's what I call the unconscious productivity loop. We get in this loop of, I need to chase that goal. I need to hustle to do that thing because then I'm going to get more approval from other people. I'm going to climb that ladder that society has decided is an important ladder for me to climb.
00:28:26
Speaker
And then I'm going to compare myself to everybody around me. Are they on the same ladder? Are they higher on the ladder? lower on the ladder where do i fit and i'm deliberately letting my voice get a bit more frenetic because that's what happens we end up in this loop that's all driven externally instead of coming internally and it's exactly what you're saying tore like what What really
External Validation vs Personal Motivation
00:28:44
Speaker
matters to me? Can I say, am I really chasing this for me?
00:28:48
Speaker
Or is this an insec is it this either an insecurity? Is this something outside of me that is driving me to think I need to do this? And it can stem, them as we know, the patterns that can be causing that external validation need. There are so many of them.
00:29:03
Speaker
um And you don't necessarily need to unpack, you know, was it my mom? Was it my dad? Was it my, you know, whatever that is, you actually don't, I don't think you can unpack all of that. But just knowing, oh, there's a lot of external factors that might be driving how I approach this.
00:29:17
Speaker
If I go inward, if I really let myself listen to myself, what feels really good to me? What what is the I often see this with people who choose organizations, they'll decide I want to work at and I'm not going to name a specific organization because that would be unfair. But we all know those um organizations that look really good on a resume that are known for.
00:29:37
Speaker
high hustle environments, unforgiving long hours. We know those. And i will say to clients often, Hey, if your dream is to get that company on your resume, okay, that can be dream, but go inwards. I want you to imagine yourself in that role. I want you to imagine that is how the culture is going to show up.
00:29:54
Speaker
Do you like that fast paced environment? Do you like that competitive environment? Because I think what can feel really tough is we won't get honest with ourselves. We We think the badge of honor is having that company on our resume or having that particular role on our resume without checking.
00:30:10
Speaker
Does that align with who I am and how I work best to say, am I properly placed? I, you know, if you're not somebody who likes competitive, and competitiveness and hustle, you can power through you. I guarantee any human can, if they decide they want to, they can power through anything, but there's going to be a cost to it.
00:30:26
Speaker
and going to be It's going to be a cost physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually. If you're constantly overriding your true nature and what feels really authentic to you just to get that badge of honor or just to get that title or that name, you can do it, but it's not going to it's not going to feel aligned and it's not going to feel good in your body.
00:30:45
Speaker
Yeah. And I'm going to add to that, that having some kind of sense of what your mission is really helps with that. Because, you know, Stephanie, I can remember working really hard and overtime on a project in in IT. t And then the whole project gets shelved and nobody ever even uses it.
00:31:04
Speaker
right Or you work really hard to get an opportunity to be on a certain project or get a promotion and you don't get it. Or you know where people start getting laid off from your company. or right All these things can happen that kind of um can impact your motivation if you're simply motivated to make a grade, if that makes sense.
00:31:25
Speaker
So what I've found helps me and a lot of people I work with in business is that if if we know what our bigger picture mission is, for example, let's say like I i was that a software developer and designer.
00:31:38
Speaker
So my mission there could have been to be a role model to others. It could have been to, um you know, learn how to be a good leader. It could have been to, you know, there there are all kinds of reasons why I could have decided i was having a mission there that had to go beyond the specific project I was working on or getting the promotion or not getting the promotion, if that makes sense.
00:32:02
Speaker
So I think that no matter what our position is, no matter what our job is, that we can see, um and sometimes we don't even know what impact we're having on other people, right? Sometimes it's just showing up the best we can with the day and that that's our mission because somehow it is impacting other people and to to just be connected with that i believe helps a lot because there are a lot of disappointments things change all the time right like if you're just chasing approval or chasing the next promotion it's going to catch up with pretty much everybody at some point somehow
00:32:41
Speaker
It's a direct path to unfulfillment usually because we can't control those things are all out of our control.
Creating Healthy Work Environments
00:32:46
Speaker
What happens with the company that's out of our control and what you're talking about that bigger why that North Star that we have for ourselves.
00:32:53
Speaker
um That is something that we control and to say like, regardless of whether this project gets shelved. do I feel like I've made a difference to the people in here? Okay. Like I've achieved, I've achieved that like that. And that is a personal internally driven motivation and desire. So that regardless of what happens with anything else, it's coming from within and that's where you find fulfillment is. And the number of times I've heard, um,
00:33:18
Speaker
One of the biggest compliments i got as a leader was someone saying, like, no matter what, like, I always feel calm and safe in your presence, Steph. Like that, they didn't say, you're always, you know, giving us the goals to chase or do this. It was just like, I feel safe and grounded. And, know,
00:33:34
Speaker
in a really fast paced, busy environment to be a leader who could offer that up to your point, like that's the ripple effect that you can have. If you just say to yourself, I want to be the leader that people feel safe and grounded around.
00:33:45
Speaker
And of course, I'm going to make sure we're talking about goals. we Like when people say to me, oh, if I approach conscious productivity, am I going to, is my team going to get unmotivated? are we all going to become lazy? No, we're not. We're all, we all know we're there to do a job. It's what is the experience of work and what is the experience of yourself as you're getting this work done?
00:34:04
Speaker
um I really dream of a world where work, and i and people are gonna call me a Pollyanna and a dreamer when I say this, but like a world of work where work positively contributes to our physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual wellbeing.
00:34:18
Speaker
Like imagine that, because I know on my best days at work as an entrepreneur, I have that all the time now that I work for myself. You probably have that too, Reverend. Like when you work for yourself, you could say like, oh, this positively contributes. feel great. i love I love what I'm putting out in the world. I love what I'm creating. It gives me energy.
00:34:33
Speaker
it actually supports my mental health. Whereas, sadly, we can't say this about a lot of organizations, people feel like work is taking from their physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual health. And so how can we create these experiences as colleagues, as leaders, where, yeah, let's show up for the work. We know we've got things we have to accomplish, but how do we make the experience of it better? Yeah, yeah.
00:34:56
Speaker
And if we look at it as a way to sharpen our sword, improve ourselves, see where our limitations are, become more flexible with them, learn how to be a better team player.
00:35:09
Speaker
And we really embrace it that way, i think. And we could even see simply that as the mission because that will inspire other people. That that can be, you know, make all the difference. And as we' we're talking about this, Stephanie, it brings to mind my... So I have ah one of my sons is ah ah an athlete. He's 15.
00:35:29
Speaker
And he at school, he plays a lot of different sports. He's also a huge tennis fanatic. Tennis is the big one, but he he made it to OFSA for volleyball last fall. OFSA is like the Ontario Provincial High School finals for sports. It's a big deal.
00:35:45
Speaker
It's a big deal. And he goes to this little tiny public school with like not a lot of athletes there, right? Like it's not not one of those schools that has the big... athletic team so it was like this huge deal he was in grade nine so he was the youngest on the team and it was his first time on the team so he was so excited to go and then the whole time he was there he was on the bench the whole time and and i loved watching this because he had a great time he thought it was a fantastic experience he cheered his cheek he cheered his team on
00:36:18
Speaker
He was going, we're going to make it to offside again before I leave high school. He was determined to make that happen. and it was really And then in other times, like in tennis, he's very competitive. He competes in tournaments.
00:36:31
Speaker
He challenges himself to get better and better, really with everything, but especially with tennis. And sometimes he wins, and a lot of times he loses, a lot of the time. And he just keeps going. And so he's had this experience of being on a team, but also with tennis, it's more of an individual sport.
00:36:49
Speaker
And i i was not an athlete as a young person. I didn't participate in sports, but I see when I watch him, the value of how to learn how to interact with this whole area we're talking about in a really healthy way.
00:37:04
Speaker
Because you learn how to win and how to lose. You learn how to be the star. and how to be the one on the bench. You learn how to support other players. You learn how to value your strengths and develop your strengths.
00:37:16
Speaker
um And so I think it's a really great way to develop that capacity. So, um you know, I'm i'm wondering about other ways that we can encourage that in business teams.
00:37:31
Speaker
And so that there is that supportive environment, but there's also challenge and competition at the same time. yeah you know So we really here at our school here, we we have a very strong culture that way where we support people and growing wherever they're at. And also we definitely award the people who are really running with it and making things happen.
00:37:52
Speaker
And we help teams and organizations do this as well. um But, you know, it's a real art to learn how to to create that culture where there can be space for that. and And it really is developing the person and the leadership and the other people on the team at the same time.
00:38:11
Speaker
So that's a really interesting challenge. JENNY GUYSCHETTLEE FRIENDERSON- Yeah. Like that leadership flexibility is so important in that metaphor.
Adaptive Leadership Styles
00:38:18
Speaker
Like for any leaders listening, think about um Robbie's son, who's playing all those different roles. Like you'll have those on your team. You'll have the person who's not ready to play in the ah the proverbial like off-sagane yet that's on them. And it's so enthusiastic and it's true.
00:38:33
Speaker
How do you nurture that? And I will say, leaders, you are being paid the bigger bucks. to support those team members and to flex your style and adjust your leadership style for those different people. You will have people that are about to, grow ah using the metaphor and extending that, people that are about to graduate there in their last year, they know how to play the plays. i don't I'm not good with sports analogies, but like they know what to do. They don't empower them.
00:38:56
Speaker
set them free, let them be the team leaders, let them motivate the younger people. You can do that with your teams and there you can empower and you don't need to necessarily give as much direction. How can you step in and nurture and celebrate those that are really enthusiastic and wanting to bring their A game?
00:39:11
Speaker
So as leaders, one style does not fit all. How can we really flex that style to meet wherever wherever they are, because your son is one day going to be that that guy who's on the team saying, like, now I'm ready to play before I graduate. He's goingnna he's going to end up in that spot.
00:39:27
Speaker
And you want to prepare him for that. and The team wants to prepare him for that. The coach wants to prepare him for that. Same as leaders. We want to we want to grow our people and get them ready for that. And so it really is paying attention and onus is on leaders to pay attention to their people and understand the uniqueness of everybody on their team.
00:39:42
Speaker
And also to be open to them ah becoming what you didn't expect. Like yeah my son was younger. he was not athletic as a young kid and he switched schools. And in his new school, the kids were really sporty.
00:39:56
Speaker
And so he just decided he was going to work out and get fit and start to play sports. And he did. And he like. You know, i would never have guessed that transformation. He did not look like that kid.
00:40:08
Speaker
um You know, but he just decided that's what he wanted and he did it. And I think that sometimes if we pigeonhole people, it can really get in the way of blossoming into the person that they can be. Sometimes...
00:40:21
Speaker
they don't see it or we don't see it. So as a leader to be able to kind of ah you know coax out what might be there or give people opportunities to have different experiences so they can discover what they can do is a really important thing because sometimes it's a hidden talent but or capacity that they don't even know they have.
Recognizing and Nurturing Hidden Talents
00:40:42
Speaker
And one of the things that was really hard for me working in the corporate world was that at the company, I always thought they did pigeonhole people like big time. And so it was very hard to change the reputation you had, whether it was good or bad. it was just it was just the way it was. And probably that happens in a lot of places. And from a hypnotic point of view, our minds can't handle a lot of complexity. So we will um stereotype people simply to have a way to make order out of chaos, yeah to be able about to take a shortcut.
00:41:15
Speaker
It's just what our brains do. um But the more we can really look for what's possible or give people opportunities to show and grow, ah the better. Because i know a lot of the people I've worked with through hypnosis training, um whether it's in the business world or some people come here for personal growth,
00:41:35
Speaker
um There were many people who surprised me in huge ways. There are also people who I thought at the beginning would be superstars and they became like a flash in the pan.
00:41:46
Speaker
So sometimes people can show up looking like a superstar and then you see the reality of it. and they're just not they're The truth is they often have a lot of talent, but they're not willing to stay with it and do what it takes.
00:42:01
Speaker
And that's that's a really important capacity in and of itself. Oh, amen to that. I love, a great point. Like, let's get away from that pigeonholing. Terrific. Yeah, yeah, great.
00:42:12
Speaker
Is there anything else you want to share along the this topic? and I think we've covered a lot. I think this has been a great conversation. um yeah, I, unless there's anything, any final burning question you have for me, i think we've covered some good ground here.
00:42:28
Speaker
Yeah. And i I would say I'm always happy for anyone to reach out to me after the show. If there's questions about anything, any of the listeners want to ask anything at all, feel free to reach out anytime.
Connect with Stephanie Woodward
00:42:38
Speaker
Okay. Where's the best place for people to reach you?
00:42:41
Speaker
um I'm either on Instagram, so I'm at Agency2Change on Instagram, LinkedIn, Stephanie Woodward, um and I have my newsletter as well. um And if they're interested, I think we're going to pop in the show notes the link to the Conscious Productivity Quiz. So I have a free resource that will help you. I talked about clarity, climate flow at a high level.
00:43:00
Speaker
This free quiz, there's two versions of it for people leaders and for individuals. You can just see your relationship with these three components. So those are three different ways to stay in touch with me or to reach out at any point.
00:43:11
Speaker
um And I too, Robbie, I know the power of hypnosis. So I know i will have clients that are very interested in everything you're doing as well. So this this is just great. I love that we're putting tools out there that support people just step into deeper self-awareness and to support themselves and empower themselves.
00:43:27
Speaker
Yeah, likewise, we should look at how we could collaborate because there's something we could do here. Good stuff here. Yeah, great. Okay, and yes, I will put all of that in the show notes so that people can find it. And yeah, so thank you so much for coming. This was a great conversation. And I think these themes are very important to put on the table for people to consider so that we can make things work better in the future for everybody.
00:43:53
Speaker
Thank you so much for having me. If you're interested in connecting with me and learning about personal and business coaching, consulting and training opportunities, go to mindlinkconsulting.com or hypnosistrainingcanada.com and schedule your free consultation.
00:44:12
Speaker
Let us know what you think of the show. Reach out to us at mindlinkconsulting.com. And if you like the show, please rate and review us so other people can find us too. Thanks so much for tuning in.
00:44:24
Speaker
I'm Robbie Spearmiller, the host of the Habit of Possibility podcast. Tune in next time to learn more about how you can turn obstacles into opportunities and make the most of your life and career.