Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Arc 27: Extinction - Dissecting Worm
378 Plays3 months ago
This story isn’t intended for young or sensitive readers. Readers who are on the lookout for trigger warnings are advised to give Worm a pass.
Complete list of potential triggers: here
-----------------------------------
Dissecting Worm: The sister podcast to Brockton Bay Book Club where our hosts Jacob and Allan discuss adapting Worm for television.
Episode Description:
Zion (Scion): Entity of unknown origin. Multi-dimensional threat. Do not engage. Assignment is evacuation and retreat. We needed a worthy dissection.
Find all our links, including our new merch @brocktonbaybc
-----------------------------------
Thank you to the sponsors that fuel our podcast:
This episode of the Brockton Bay Book Club is sponsored by Made Marion. Made Marion creates custom cottagecore and ren faire clothing designed for every body. Whether you’re looking for a lace up bodice, rustic apron and pinafores, or ethereal dresses, you’ll find items customized for every individual’s fit and design. All items are lovingly hand sewn with attention to detail and a touch of whimsy.
Visit Made Marion today and transform your wardrobe with clothing that feels as enchanting as it looks. Find Made Marion on etsy, at themademarion.etsy.com
-----------------------------------
Timestamps:
(00:00) - Introduction
(01:30) - Dissecting Begins
Recommended
Transcript
Merchandise Announcement
00:00:00
Speaker
Exciting announcement, we now have Brockton Bay Book Club merch. We've got our Brockton Bay Book Club t-shirt as well as the Brockton Bay's sweatshirt. They look sweet. Hannah designed them and they're amazing. So if you're interested in that, a link will be in the description and shout out to Hannah for all the sweet designs. Thanks so much for your guys' support and go check it out.
Introduction to 'Worm'
00:00:25
Speaker
Worm is a web serial by J.C. McRae, also known as Wildbo. You can read Worm in its original format by visiting parahumans dot.wordpress dot.com or donate to Wildbo's Patreon at patreon dot.com. slash wildbot This story isn't intended for young or sensitive readers. Readers who are on the lookout for trigger warnings are advised to give Worm a pass. For a complete list, check the description for all of Worm's trigger warnings.
Progression to Arc 27
00:01:33
Speaker
Take that, you worms. Take that, you worms. We're taking it all the way to arc 27 today. You needed worthy worm moments. You needed wormy opponents. Yeah. We made it to another pivotal moment in the series that we have to try to figure out here. I'd say so.
00:02:01
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, i let's, let's get into it. I think it's the end of the arc is, is our big, a big moment, which we'll get to, yeah but we'll take the majority of the conversation. Yeah. I think, I think that we're going to spend most of our time and kind of continuing to structure this final season a bit, but let's, we'll go through the arc. We'll hit, we'll hit the kind of the high point. I think a lot of this arc,
00:02:24
Speaker
In my opinion, I think it does lend itself well to adaptation. There's a couple good set pieces here that I think would be really fun to see on the big screen. And yeah, I mean, getting it by getting right into it, you know you got the aftermath of Sion's blasting.
00:02:47
Speaker
So you've got alternate earth, which, um, what's the name?
Aftermath of Sion's Attack
00:02:52
Speaker
What's the name of their there safe haven earth? I don't think it had a name. Does not have a name. I can remember if it did or not. I don't remember it having a name. I don't think so. Okay. Unnamed earth. Oh, thank you, Michael. Um, yeah, so different, obviously the ah unnamed earth.
00:03:12
Speaker
kind of the meeting with Cauldron. A lot of stuff happens here that this is the kind of stuff that I would be really excited to see in a big, you know, high budget adaptation, just for the sake of really getting a focus in on some of these really cool conversations and moments. Stuff I want to see. Yeah, yeah. This is a yeah, this is it's got a lot of great sets. I think, you know, it's basically what Cauldron's lair uh, destroyed Brockton Bay, the oil rig, and then all of your budget. And I say all of your budget as if those were the smaller things. All of your budget goes into the legend or the, uh, idol on, uh, classic, you know, black you won yeah. Yeah. yes yeah Sean Connery.
Pronunciation Play
00:04:05
Speaker
lost at one. Yeah. Apparently I looked it up. It, it is a, like a shot sound for it's not glass dig. It's glass dig. So a maybe it is a Sean Connery. Yep. Glash. Glash. towen Glash. Glash. Glash. Glash. Glash. Glash. Glash. Glash. Glash. Glash. Glash. Glash. Glash. Glash. Glash. Glash. Glash. Glash. Glash. Glash. Glash. Glash. Glash. Glash. Glash. Glash. Glash. Glash. Glash. Glash. Glash. Glash. Glash. Glash. Glash. Glash. Glash. Glash. Glash. Glash. Glash. Glash. Glash. Glash. Glash. Glash. Glash. Glash. Glash. Glash. Glash. Glash. Glash. Glash. Glash. Glash. Glash.
00:04:29
Speaker
what i would give for a sean conner reading of warm ah Glash That'd be great. Take that you worm. yeah
00:04:42
Speaker
i Suck it you worm. I can't do it either. Um, there are 17 different earths that I can go through here.
00:04:59
Speaker
oof It's one of them. one of those Certainly one of the most... What was the question again? Where's the oil rig? Oh yeah yeah, there you go. where What earth is the oil rig on? That's the easy way to say it. All right, I've got the answer. Well, I'm on the tip of my tongue. let's just It's just alternate earth. That's what do they call it. It's an alternate earth. There's a lot of earths.
00:05:24
Speaker
but not so many earths. What's another earth, you know, what's what's another earth, but yeah, I mean, good, good stuff here. Uh, the conversations with cauldron, uh, glass to Gwen yay, all of that stuff is a really good, uh, tattletale and, uh, bone saw conversation. Um, like there's a lot of good conversations in this arc, uh, Taylor and shadow stalker, um, you know, big,
00:05:54
Speaker
Like the kind of conversations that will be memorable. So let's so let's let's just quickly go through this, um because I think there is an interesting through line, not for all the scenes, but for tailors that might could lead to adjusting a lot of things if we were to pursue
Taylor's Character Development
00:06:15
Speaker
that. So. We open, of course, with Taylor you know, flying over and eventually touching down in Brockton Bay, the destroyed Brockton Bay, right? Her house is gone. She does not know if her dad is alive and neither does tattletale. Now, character wise, that has been the whole reason Taylor has been doing stuff is to save Brockton Bay. Even when she joined, you know, Jack, it was to stop the end of the world.
00:06:50
Speaker
because Brockton Bay was in that world, essentially. um You know, very much the reason that all villains, you know, team up with the end bringers, like they like money. And if you kill everybody, that money ain't no good. So, but she doesn't have that now. Brockton Bay is is a scar on, in the earth now, yeah um you know, less so than maybe the entire UK at that point.
00:07:18
Speaker
Uh, but like she's, she's, she's lost everything she was fighting for. So at this point in time, it makes me wonder what would you want the next steps for Taylor to be in terms of like, where she moves in the story? Because in my head there, she's never been one to give up.
00:07:47
Speaker
But with such a crushing of her motivation, we do need to lead ultimately to the sort of ah we've been moving because Taylor has always been a whatever it takes kind of gal to literally no morals, no nothing. This is about survival, whatever it takes, genuinely speak, like genuinely. And we see that happen in a couple of places, but How would we show that? Especially when she goes and talks to Shadowstalker and the way it's written, she's very dead inside when she's talking to her. But like the fact why why why would why why would she even go talk to Shadowstalker?
00:08:34
Speaker
Yeah, it's an interesting little dilemma because from ah from a story perspective, like they they do lose. like If you're translating this one-to-one to television,
00:08:48
Speaker
um the to the audience, like this is a loss. And it's hard for me to imagine a lot of shows or stories in general in which your heroes do lose that significantly um and did not be like the point of the story from the beginning and everyone's kind of expecting it.
00:09:06
Speaker
like You are expecting anyone who's watching this show, assuming it gets made, obviously, ah is going to expect the obvious victory. like Even in, i think I think the best parallel, honestly, I hate to make the comparison because I think Worm is far deeper than the MCU, but ah you know ending Infinity War on the snap half of the universe. A bold choice on their part. an old choice that I think obviously paid off very well. But even then, the audience knew the story was continuing, and they were going to fix it. like Nobody left Infinity War going, Oh, man.
00:09:49
Speaker
Man, I guess that's it. I guess my favorite Avengers are giving up. That wasn't the story. Everyone knew that eventually we would get the you know sweet happy ending as best we could. ah Worm isn't going to give us that.
00:10:10
Speaker
Not really. And I think we are, you know, treading a dangerous line as we should. That's what I love about worm where the audience is going to have to come to the realization that no, the world kind of is pretty much ended and this story is going to end a bit differently than you may want. So we'll see. I think, I think there is some,
00:10:35
Speaker
ways that we can prep the audience for the ending and still let it be satisfying. But I think that's going to be one of the biggest challenges of the entire adaptation is selling the audience on what is essentially a tragedy.
'Worm' and War Film Elements
00:10:51
Speaker
ah It's a hard sell. Not a lot of people want to watch that, you know, but it's so good. So. First show that I thought of just now was Samurai Jack. Ooh.
00:11:04
Speaker
because I mean, up up and up until 2004, you know, in 2004 it ended. And then of course in 2017, they brought us an actual conclusion. But yeah for a lot of time, from 2004 to 2017, the show ended with my boy, Jack, um just, you know, making zero progress for four seasons.
00:11:31
Speaker
Yeah. Like he's saving people, but he's not act like his world as he knows it is not good and not, and, uh, and gone essentially. And evil wins every time. Um, I don't know where I'm going with this, but it just made me, uh, think of that comparison. Yeah, no, it's good. Good comparison. It makes me think there's a, there's a bunch of, you know, heroes failing kind of.
00:11:59
Speaker
in the middle, uh, like shows that are talked about by the brilliant, overly sarcastic productions in their, uh, they're like trope talks. And I know one that they mentioned a lot that I, I never got that far called reboot in which spoilers, I think between the second and third season or something, essentially they realized like the we did not win. Right. Um, you know, heroes take turns for the worse ah becomes sort of a darker show. Another one that does resolve a little bit quicker, but is a failed hero for like the last two seasons, I think is She-Ra. Oh, interesting. like yeah i'm not too know they're They're fighting their happy little battle and ah they don't win. Yeah.
00:12:51
Speaker
you know And there is it's fun there is a ah genre of films in which ah filmgoers will will readily accept bleaker outcomes, which are war films.
00:13:02
Speaker
ah you know a lot You can watch a good war film. ah Maybe it's a true story. Maybe it's a you know loose historical fiction, you know that kind of thing. And it can end with your entire the entire squad getting wiped. And everyone you've came to love over the past two hour film is dead. And you can still be like, man, that was ah was beautiful. We'll queue it up again. You know like you go right back into it.
00:13:28
Speaker
I think the way those are framed though. Yeah, I was going to say it's, it's a, different yeah sorry it's a, yeah, it's a big, uh, it's a, it's a very, very different genre. It's a whole different mindset. And I do think worm plays with a few different genres. Um, but again, it's, it's one of those things where I think if you could get the audience into the right framework for the season or at least the back half of the season, I think you could still bring it home. I think you could still do it, but it would be,
00:13:57
Speaker
you You would need a lot of work. More more than just the two of us scripting, putting it to script. This would be like, you' what you'd need the right directors. You'd need the right you know cinematographers. Everything would need to be would need needs in order for it to to work well. Everyone's going to be on the same page. yeah um So fun.
00:14:24
Speaker
Yeah. Otherwise, like I think you know you jump from from there ah to I guess them having their cauldron conversation, which is just, you know, more talking in a room. I think that's fine. Taylor goes and talks to shadow stalker, which once again, like a great conversation. It's fine. And then they go to the oil rig, which I think the one thing I was discussing beforehand with one of our patrons ah was
00:14:57
Speaker
The fact that like, uh, I think the idea would be, we talk about, um, if I'm right, uh, they don't know that this is an alternate earth on the other side of the planet until Scion shows up. I can't remember if that's true or not, but regardless, we should say this is as far away as you can get it as the other side of the earth in an alternate earth. Scion is so far away.
00:15:24
Speaker
This is our plan. This is the approach be very explicit on like, we're going to open doors. We're going to use our plans and our people to hit people from from different angles using the portals. And that way we can stay here and be safe on the oil rig only for him to, you know, literally just phase shift over and be right above them. Yeah. yeah No, I totally agree. Thus establishing again that they are not even that safe. Um, and.
00:15:54
Speaker
Uh, then you spend, you know, the rest of the time Taylor recovering while, uh, legend and flash to yeah ah fight. Sorry. Sorry. I keep saying legend. In fact, I have, in fact, I have a legend written down.
00:16:15
Speaker
when it should be Eidolon in my notes. goodness No wonder I got them confused first time reading around. um Yeah. ah Yeah, no, I think, I mean, it kind of going back, I think we talked a little bit about this in the book club, but like,
00:16:34
Speaker
Part of this is they yeah at this point, the reader and the audience obviously is going to know kind of what Sion is, but the capes don't.
Tattletale's Role in 'Worm'
00:16:44
Speaker
And the fact that they think they're so safe on an alternate earth, using portals to fire, you know, their super weapons is like they still think they have a chance. It's as slim as it may be.
00:16:59
Speaker
And then their God weapon does nothing and he shifts dimensions anyway. And like, it's just, it's just so helpless. and Yeah. You want that, you want that to hit. Yeah. Oh yeah. This is a moment. I think the ending to this is of course the final interludes where winds up You know, having i says, says the words winds up and then fires a laser beam, which we leave off on like, Oh my gosh, who got lasered, you know, at the end of the one, I believe I Dolan is no more after that. So, i you know, I think that's just how it ends. It's just him getting blasted to smithereens, which brings about the question.
00:17:57
Speaker
The biggest question we're going to answer is how do we pull off? You needed worthy opponents. so You needed worthy opponents. Sion dropping bars.
00:18:11
Speaker
Yeah, this is a tough one. I've had a lot of thoughts as I knew we were going to eventually be getting getting here. I have ah the the long thought that I'm going to attempt here. Bear with me. I've been thinking a lot about our other characters and arcs that we want to give them. We haven't really focused on a lot of our secondary characters with good reason. We got a lot on our plate.
00:18:33
Speaker
but definitely something i'm i'm kind of making a mental note that and we can come back to things and are and are just putting pieces together and and reviewing ideas just kind of reminding that there's things i want to touch on one of them being tattletale as a character.
00:18:47
Speaker
ah I think very clearly she is a beloved character to readers. I think she would very quickly become a be beloved character to watchers as well. um And I think she needs some pretty strong arcs in these final seasons that we really haven't touched on.
00:19:06
Speaker
And I think a good way amongst other things, but I think a good two good things to give her are one, have her figure out what the entities is are. ah We know that she gets close whenever she's near a trigger.
00:19:23
Speaker
you know She sees flashes, she can kind of may kind of remember them a little bit. She's closer than most. I think an event like Sion's Gold Morning, something to that effect, it would be very easy for us to structure a moment in which she puts the pieces together and figures it out.
00:19:43
Speaker
That's one thing. Secondly, i like I think we could give her but in in the same vein sort of tied with that, give her the realization of what the end bringers are, since that's something again that we set up with her character all the way back in the Leviathan fight.
00:19:58
Speaker
where she gets these glimpses of what Leviathan is or isn't. um I would say we continue that with with Behemoth and then bring it back full circle here. And the way you can do this is that we are seeing this final fight between Eidolon and Sion from both Eidolon's perspective and Tattletales, where Tattletale is putting pieces together and she's realizing that something just isn't right as Eidolon is getting stronger.
00:20:28
Speaker
And she's desperately trying to figure out what it is. They're tracking him. They're tracking the fight, bouncing between dimensions. And she figures it out. We'll figure out exactly how how we want to do it. But she figures out that the end bringers are a result of Eidolon's power yeah and have that timed with the you needed worthy opponents so that visually that's happening at the same time is that you need to wear the opponent's tattletale slash then the audience figures it out. And there you have it. It's sort of, it's yeah bridging that. So it's a bit clearer because man, is it not clear? Yeah, yeah I, I like it. This is one of those moments that's so iconic to worm fans that it would be a,
00:21:23
Speaker
It would feel a slight to them to not have this in there. Oh yeah. However, I think not doing it correctly would be an E wall. They might feel hurt that like disappointed. I'll say that it wasn't there. They wouldn't feel hurt that we fucked it up so bad. So as an alternative, what if we didn't have you needed worthy opponents, just hypothetically. And instead we left the end bringers as what they are still canonically there for, just giant creatures brought about by by Eve or Eden in order to um stir up conflict. And just not linking it to Eidolon at all? Yeah.
00:22:24
Speaker
I'm always down for a good hypothetical. I don't think I like the idea of changing that because it is so iconic. But just to just to continue the thought, hypothetically speaking, how then would you ah kill Eidolon? Just have Sion beat him in a straight one-v-one. I think you have him do like, he's feeling stronger. He's feeling better. You know, God, it keeps going, keeps going, keep going. And he fires, you know, his mega gig.
00:22:54
Speaker
blaster beam and, you know, Sion just grabs him by the throat, blasts him full in the face. And, you know, you end with like glass to reap in his soul in front of Taylor.
00:23:10
Speaker
and Yeah, I mean, there's definitely one way you could do it. It'd be really interesting. This is one of those cases where I'd love to get more worm fans. So let us know in the comments, please. This is just one of those moments that you want, like, I mean, I agree. You want to do this so right, but it it would so easily go wrong if you don't do it right. um Yeah, definitely.
00:23:30
Speaker
I think I would definitely want to focus more on trying to do it correctly before pivoting it. pit pivot pivoting Yeah pivoting the idea. um But I mean definitely this is one of those things that could get restructured. The the the reason I like to keep it though is because there's this fun poetry between Eidolon and Taylor.
00:23:52
Speaker
That reminds me a lot of like ah Harry Potter and Neville Longbottom where like technically the prophecy sort of could have applied to both of them. And it really was just fate essentially that gave it to Harry, but it could have been like where you're going with this. Yeah.
00:24:10
Speaker
idollon And and Skitter, Taylor, have the same shard, ah they're rather the same you know essence of the shard from different hosts. And both of them theoretically are the only ones capable of defeating Sion. And the poetry of Sion forcing Eidolon to give up And then Taylor forcing Sion to give up is just beautiful to me. And I would really hate to lose that. yeah So it's hard. it's and I don't know if we have a good answer, but there's so there's a lot of little little poetry and the way the shards work and the way
00:24:55
Speaker
the way that the capes interact with each other and the roles, especially if we really want to get into the whole last day, you won, you when is speeches about roles and and things like that, which is a lot of fun. But we are definitely running the risk of, of getting pretty confusing. Yeah. I think, you know, like you said, tattletale probably is the most ideal way as our confusing thing explainer.
00:25:25
Speaker
to explain this. um She is our exposition. Yeah, and we love her for it. ah Yeah, I think she is going to be our best way to explain that, especially mid battle. He's charging up. I do think the like, oh, we've almost got him. He's shifting abilities faster and faster. He's coming up with better ones and newer ones, and it just doesn't matter.
00:25:52
Speaker
um You could also even tack on a ah more visual too, where where maybe Sion at the very end brings them into a alternate, you know, other dimension. And just as they do, they're just in front of all the endbringers, every single one of them just standing there. And Eidolon just looks and sees 15, 20 endbringers and Sion just looks back, you needed worthy opponents.
00:26:23
Speaker
Yeah, I like that better because you know, canonically that there's like seven or 15 more of them sitting in stasis, right? Or in the abstract, if you will. Yeah. So, you know, especially if they're already punching slash shifting through dimensions, um you know, that you just have, you know, Sion grab him.
00:26:52
Speaker
throw him into the shadow realm where there are essentially great shadowy creatures, you know, and, and, yeah you know, you just have idol on just go like, and enjoy you know, under his breath. And, you know, but you could really telegraph it if you're like, like, you know, they've been here the whole time or where, where do they come from? Yada, yada. And then, you know, turn to science.
00:27:19
Speaker
sounds right there and just, you know, does the, you needed worthy opponents and then blasts him straight. You could blast him in the realm or you could send him as a burned carcass out of the shadow realm. Yeah. And I mean, you could play in, like I kind of mentioned in in the, in the, uh, Brock and Bay book club, we can play up his, the whole,
00:27:42
Speaker
what he needed, right? How we can prep this with Eidolon talking a lot about, I needed this, I needed that, I needed this, so that when we get to the you needed, it's just even more implied. Like, you your power gave you what you need. Yeah. Yeah, we could even just say, we could even just say that like, maybe he's muttering to himself as he's blasting Sion, maybe visually make it look like he's doing a bit better. Because like, when you read it,
00:28:08
Speaker
Sion's irritated, but like he's just casually moving and dodging out of the way. You know, maybe we make Eidolon actually look like that he's doing some damage for a minute or going to get the upper hand, you know? Um, you know, he's like, my power gives me what I need and I need to beat you, you know, whatever. Give him something more badass than that. Just kind of drive it home. And then Sion can just sort of turn his phrase against him. No, you needed worthy opponents. Yeah. I like the idea of like,
00:28:37
Speaker
You know, he's he's doing all those things and then a sign on like essentially swings around throat slams him through a dimension like he does like the swing grab and as he turns like you know, essentially breaks into the other dimension and then I like it. I don't want so shocked. He's like, oh my gosh. Like where am I?
00:29:01
Speaker
sees all the end bringers you know and you can have that happen so fast. That way you have just the visual of the end bringers there when he says you needed worthy opponents. Yeah. You're not, like you said, more like I, you know, he's muttering under his breath. I'm like, I need more powers. I need strong, you know, I need to be faster. I need to be quicker. And he's like pulling. I mean, just for,
00:29:26
Speaker
displays sake. I know this isn't canonically how it works. He could be, you know, I need to be faster. All of a sudden he's faster. I need to be stronger. All of a sudden, you know, yeah, he's stronger. I need, you know, I need shields. I needed this. I need this. And he's getting all of his wishes are coming true essentially. Right. right Yeah. Until Sion just is done playing around. and Right. And goes,
00:29:49
Speaker
you needed worthy opponents. And also, like you said, if we have him talk about how kind of his powers work and maybe even tattletale, this is where, you know, tattletale reaches in and talks. And we explained that a bit more in terms of, Oh, you did a lot better. I felt, you know, better than I ever had been when I fought, you know, the end bringers and big, you know, big, bad guys that really tested me. Like, you know, I need, like I, the you know, my powers will,
00:30:19
Speaker
Well, you know, thrive when I fight against Sion, like I know it. Yeah. You know, I need this. And then you get there and like, yeah, he's kind of correct. You, you did need this. It's just not the way you thought. Yeah. Yeah. I think, I think there's some clever ways we could, we could, we could work this for a while, I think. And I think there's probably some pretty clever ways that we can, we can make this work.
00:30:47
Speaker
This episode of the Brockton Bay Book Club is sponsored by Maid Marion.
Maid Marion Promotion
00:30:52
Speaker
Maid Marion creates custom cottagecore and Renfaire clothing designed for everybody. Whether you're looking for a lace-up bodice, rustic apron and pinafore, or ethereal dresses, you'll find items customized for every individual's fit and design. All items are lovingly hand-sewn with attention to detail and a touch of whimsy.
00:31:14
Speaker
Visit Made Marion today and transform your wardrobe with clothing that feels as enchanting as it looks. Find Made Marion on Etsy at themaidmarion.etsy.com.
00:31:30
Speaker
Yeah, i think I think the follow up to this, if we if we want to put a cap on that, yeah is focusing for this season about how to
00:31:44
Speaker
not quickly vilify Taylor. Cause we had Taylor, you know, kill Aster in the last chapter. And that was a point of discussion I was talking about with the patron where I was like, that is sort of the ultimate kick the dog moment. Yeah. You we might not be able to recover your character from such an on screen shooting a child moment. So you either really have to display that there were like, this is the better option. Like you really got to put that on display that that's the better option. Or you have it happen in a different off screen way.
00:32:39
Speaker
other than her just straight up taking a gun and shooting a baby. yeah i I think that both ah the sensibility of television as an Institute and the sensibilities of the viewers would both be in jeopardy there. Yeah, no, it's a good it's a good thought. That's gonna be hard to pull off. Yeah. So there there's that.
00:33:07
Speaker
ah
00:33:10
Speaker
And I think, I think it also, you know, if we, if we do show that, that is telegraphing, what lengths Taylor's willing to go, you know, to save people, she will destroy them. That is, you know, and and that is what is going to happen. So yeah, I think that is just something we need to keep in mind as we go forward, that this is especially like we've done before. This is the theme of whatever it takes again.
00:33:41
Speaker
You can do little subtle things like we could age Aster up just a few years. Um, so she's not, cause she's like, what a toddler in the store at that point. Yeah. Like it's just, that's rough. It's rough. Um, you know, so maybe she's a bit older that helps a little bit. Um, you know, let mean things like truthfully, if, you know, Aster was a baby when we started, then by the time we got to the end of our thing, she would be,
00:34:08
Speaker
that should be still the same age. whom i get it Yeah. So and before people don't like, I get it, it warms a dark story. We're not trying to say it's not, I'm not trying to remove it. Just that when you're adjusting mediums in these ways, visually, that type of imagery is going to be a lot harsher than it is when you read it. And so ah audiences are going to be quicker to uh react to something like that yeah yeah this this would very much be our danny moment from game of thrones if we did that yeah right right exactly right um like yeah it's just that much of a character shift because yeah i mean truly
00:34:54
Speaker
And it's hard because Taylor does a lot of the wrong things for the right reasons, quote unquote, you know her right. um And we love her for that. um And it is true. like asster It's very possible that it was a mercy kill. She certainly thinks it is. Taylor thinks it is.
00:35:13
Speaker
Um, she's not just killing a child here, just for fun, you know? Um, so this could fit in line with, and it does, I think when you read it, it it works a lot better when you read it, obviously. And I think it does fit in line with, you know, who Taylor is and and what she's willing to do. Um, yeah, like, I mean, to your point, I think, like you said, you just, you've, you've got to be introducing this, I think a lot sooner and a lot clearer to the audience, yeah especially with where we go from here, because it doesn't get easier. yeah yep yeah it's I have some more thoughts ah that i want I want to get out as we get into these next couple of arcs. um Broadly, I think Taylor as a character and Worm as a story shares a lot of similarities with elements of both Greek and Shakespearean tragedies that I really, really like. And I think we can
00:36:12
Speaker
maybe utilize that to our advantage because these are tropes and frameworks that audiences are very comfortable with and familiar with. And ah I think I'm very optimistic that you could really do these last few arcs very well, and that audiences would like them. But it is it as it it it's tricky. It is a tricky one, for sure.
00:36:37
Speaker
Totally agree. Yeah. Yeah. We've discussed the problems and then now we'll see how i'll see him yeah as I'm going through, I was like, man, they do explain explicitly about the end bringers and idol on in the next arc. Oh, do they? And it's funny because I obviously haven't reread arc 28 yet. Yeah. which I feel like it's this explicit. I,
00:37:06
Speaker
would have remembered, like that is something that i you know I read pretty explicitly for the most part, first go around. I feel like I would have known that if I'd read it. They talk about it a bit. So maybe my memory's just real bad. So I'm sitting here like, I have to have known this. There's no way I missed this much.
00:37:36
Speaker
I mean, we were yeah, i mean I guess in some sense. Maybe I don't remember and thought I didn't know it the first time around. Yeah, right. There you go. well I mean, ah to my point earlier, ah this is a great arc, as will the remaining arcs be great arcs to get your comments in and let us know what you think. Because as you can tell, we are obviously struggling with how to put some of these pieces together. So give us your thoughts. Let us know how would you adapt these arcs. How would you adapt? You needed worthy opponents and Taylor's character and Tattletale.
Character Deaths in Arc
00:38:12
Speaker
I did have two final thoughts just in closing here, uh, just to run by you, Alan. And that is, uh, we got, we got two deaths in this arc, pretty big deaths that get a little
00:38:29
Speaker
passed by, in my opinion, when reading it. Uh, once technically not confirmed yet, but he does die here. So we have both, uh, clock blocker and grew die. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Correct me if I'm wrong. Yeah. But grew isn't dead here.
00:38:50
Speaker
I am pretty sure he does. Cause okay. So maybe my memory's bad. Cause I know it's hinted at that. Like, Oh, we don't know. And we assume he's dead here. Like, but if I'm not mistaken, he goes and shacks up in a cabin in the woods with Cozen and they get wiped out by Sion.
00:39:18
Speaker
Uh, I might be wrong. According to the Wiki, he dies on the oil rig. Okay. ah Maybe it's an alternate grew or something like that, that she sees. It's it's yeah. Cause it's her going through. There's a whole thing where like she's world, like she's doing her dimension hopping when she's Capri and she sees There's like a cabin and she's like, Oh, I could grab them because I'm grabbing everyone. Right. And she doesn't. And she's like, I'm going to let them have this, even though I know they're going to die and it won't matter anyway. Yeah. I think I know what you're talking about. I think that's an alternate grew is the, uh, is the sort of idea there, but
00:40:13
Speaker
Yeah, I'd have to, I'd have to confirm. I think, I guess we'll get confirmation in our 20. I think he dies in the wheel rig. Our group dies. Yeah. ri Because that's what the obvious answer was, but I could have sworn, you know what? And honestly, either way, even if it is sort of more off screen later, that's not that much better. It's not a great send off. It's really not. Oh, oh, somebody. Here we go. Here we go. I think from what I'm reading is that tattletale lied to Taylor about it, that she told him he went to a, you know, he went to a farm. a farm a farm
00:40:54
Speaker
yeah yeah Interesting. Well, we can, uh, again, either way, this is something I'd want to change for grew specifically. I had a quick idea that I thought would work. Um,
00:41:10
Speaker
I think very simply, they see Sion overhead. Everybody starts to freak out. They're standing at the edge of the oil rig and Gru pushes her off. As the oil rig gets destroyed and Taylor still takes a brunt of that blast and barely survives, but there's just in his final moments, he saves her.
00:41:34
Speaker
just something, you know, something to help. we yeah but Yeah. I was trying to remember if Cozen was there too. Cause I thought she might've left cause he's like Taylor's like, no, all the others go. We actually need you. So she's kind of responsible for him dying too. Yeah.
00:41:52
Speaker
ah Or I mean, if you want to, I mean, I think it's more poetic that it's that it's grew. But if you want to please the shippers, you can make it clock blocker. And in his last moment, he freezes her. And she survives the blast because she's in stasis.
00:42:12
Speaker
Every ship is possible. yeah go Oh my gosh. Full of these ships and they any one of them could set sail. Now are some of these even boats? They're not even in the water. I do think that you are on the right track. I think that maybe having clock blocker or yeah, I think clock blocker would be good because she'd be concerned about where grew is potentially.
00:42:42
Speaker
And having grew up here in uh, Glastig's arsenal who as the reveal that he died as opposed to, you know, clock blocker. Cause like we didn't.
00:42:55
Speaker
really pay attention that clock blocker was there necessarily, as opposed to grew, who is somebody that we would actually be like, where is he? Yeah. Yeah. Actively thinking about, so clock blocker pushes her off. He goes out, do, you know, be an all noble. And then Taylor's like in the water. She comes out. She's like thinking like where the fuck is grew. And then we, you know, or the audience is left thinking me like where the heck is great. And then of course, very quickly,
00:43:25
Speaker
You know, later he is revealed to be part of her ghost squads. Yeah. Oh, either way, just something to mention. We got to give better send off for our boys. and we're ah Yeah. Yep. A hundred percent. They deserve it. They deserve it. They need it. Well, all any, ah any final thoughts on the arc? No, honestly, this went, this went longer than I thought it would.
00:43:51
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, we're kind of these, these are going to be fun. I think there's a lot of little things we're going to dwell on, but a lot of the big set pieces I think are going to just translate very well out of the fights and stuff. So that's just kind of going to be natural. But stick around for arc 28 coming first to the Brockton Bay Book Club next week. And following that will be another episode of dissecting worm.
00:44:14
Speaker
As we continue to attempt to tie the bow on this thing, by which I mean tie the bow on like the outline of a first draft before going back in and and figuring the whole thing out. But Michael, thank you as always for making this sound so good. Absolutely. Appreciate you. Alan, thanks for joining me as always.
00:44:36
Speaker
Thanks to our lovely patrons who pitch in and give us good ideas and things to think about. And if you would like to pitch in and give us good ideas and things to think about, consider joining our Patreon and joining our exclusive Discord. We have bonus content and chats with fans. It'll be a lot of fun. If not, we still appreciate you. Thanks so much for listening.
00:44:56
Speaker
Don't forget to like, comment, subscribe, all that good stuff, especially comment. I really want to hear what people have to say. Check that right it yeah for the for the discussions. If you're already discussions on on the on Reddit post on that in ah the easiest place to leave comments on what you think we should do. Absolutely. And until next time, as always, take that to worms.