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Brewing In The Deep South
397 Plays5 days ago
"Balance is key for me in beer. I really love when a brewer can execute the balance between malt, hops and yeast."
Dave Macgill is a brewer whose name will be well known to many in all parts of the Australian beer industry. For many years, he was head brewer at Tasmania’s Moo Brew, just one of three people to hold the reins at the pioneering brewery across its 20-year history.
These days, you’ll find him at Deep South Brewing Co, the North Hobart brewery he launched in 2021 with some old mates. While visiting Hobart earlier in the year, Will and Craig caught up with Dave to chat about the Deep South story, his time at Moo, and his continued passion and optimism for the beer industry.
Before the interview, James and Will talk about The Crafty Pint’s recent Beer By Design features focusing on trends and the artists who bring beer cans to life, our Brew & A with Becky Centeno, and the Pint of Origin 2025 festival program launch.
As ever, don’t forget to submit your entries for our Have You Done A Rallings? celebration of the country’s good beer citizens, as well as your nominations for Bluestone Yeast’s Brewery of the Month.
Start of segments:
- 8:05 – Dave Macgill Part 1
- 26:48 – Dave Macgill Part 2
Relevant links:
- Beer By Design: The Artists
- Beer By Design: The Trends
- Brew & A: Becky Centeno
- Pint of Origin 2025
- Dave Heads Deep South
- Deep South Brewing Co
- Nominate a good beer citizen
- Nominate a Bluestone Yeast Brewery of the Month
To find out more about supporting the show or otherwise partnering with The Crafty Pint, contact craig@craftypint.com.
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Transcript
Introduction & Gabs Festival Experiences
00:00:05
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Crafty Pint Podcast. I'm Will. I'm James. And yeah, Will, we're once again, we've been separated once again, this time by a fair distance, but um we did get to enjoy um Gabs at the weekend as it as it launched a little bit earlier than than usual in Melbourne.
Will's Travels & Brewery Visits
00:00:23
Speaker
Yeah, I was there on the Friday, which was still very much an industry session. So it was great to catch up with a lot of people because normally it follows the Abers, of course, but it didn't. this Yeah. Yeah, no, I attended that on the Saturday evening, which yeah I think was probably the busiest session and had mum and dad in tow as well. And we did our best to get around. But I realised afterwards, as's all these people had said, hey, I'll see you for the first time in age on Saturday night. And even with the more compact space, it was very easy to get caught up chatting to people and realise that you hadn't actually seen half the people in the room.
00:00:50
Speaker
um But no, it was good. There was obviously now some fun beers on, plenty of atmosphere and and liveliness again. um And yeah, I guess things have moved on since then. I'm now up in Brisbane, been here for a couple of days, um been to check out, was it Sea Legs yesterday, popped into...
00:01:06
Speaker
Thelons for lunch today, i'm heading out to a couple more places tomorrow before we hit the Sunshine Coast to see what's going on there. um So yeah, all all continues to move apace.
Beer Design Trends & Collaborations
00:01:16
Speaker
um Anyway, so but before we get to this week's main guest, I guess a bit of reflection on some stories and over the last few days.
00:01:23
Speaker
One's a bit of a doubleheader. We had the Beer by Design series that we kicked off late last year in partnership with OnPak, and we started off by looking at, I guess, the cutting edge of... and can printing and design that's going into cans. And now we're sort of going through the different stages. I know the article that you ran this week was on trends. You spoke to, um I guess, Kodo, one of the leading operators in that space in the States.
00:01:47
Speaker
Yeah, I think Kodo would be a familiar name to a lot of people in the industry here. they've For many years, they've released this annual industry trend report. Their email is great. I'm subscribed to it. It's always interesting. It's funny.
00:01:59
Speaker
and you kind of It is about design in a way, but it's also it's about a lot more than that. Obviously, they go into a lot of stuff about mergers and acquisitions and creating sub-brands, which we've seen a lot of breweries do here, and how you manage them and that kind of thing.
00:02:13
Speaker
So it's a very um it's always a very thoughtful, reflective piece that annual trend um so that that was out last week and then this story I talked to Isaac one of the founders there and also a couple local brewers about how they've approached limited releases and things like that and these are these trying times for the industry and yeah nicely ah Mick Woost wrote a piece last week it was just about artists and how breweries work with artists so he spoke to other side who in WA have always been really full both coming and work really closely with the local artists and then the tattooist and designer of all of Dangerous Ales cans. They have a really nice look Dangerous Ales.
Industry Moves & Festival Announcements
00:02:52
Speaker
So was cool to get a peek behind the curtain, I think, of um how she does it.
00:02:56
Speaker
and I had had a good chat to Damo about that from Dangerous Ales at Gab's on the Saturday as he was applying my mother with 10% oat cream double IPAs. Apparently, the tattooist is pretty stoked to be involved in the article. and i thought it was interesting with your trends piece as well, how much, even though I guess you know they are working with people overseas, but mainly in the States, how much what's happening you know globally in trends is being reflected over here and how easy it was for us to find people to talk about, you know i guess, some of the things that they highlighted and what they'd seen locally.
00:03:26
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, it's definitely um that the moves in the craft beer world, as they always have, I think, are definitely still happening in the same way in other countries just at the moment. Unfortunately, they're not as maybe as exciting as they once were.
00:03:41
Speaker
Very true. No, well, there's been a lot of excitement ah ah with another piece that we put out just earlier this week, Becky Santino, who a lot of people from the be industry will know, we did a brew an A on her. She's just about to move from Little Miss Sunshine in Brisbane to Revel Brewing.
00:03:54
Speaker
ah She's worked in a whole bunch of roles. Someone we spoke to for that Codo article about Boat Rock, as she worked there, she's worked into the sales, um you know, HOSPO, whatever. um And that's had a pretty amazing reaction on socials. It's, you know, you She I guess, someone that we've known for the years, a lot of very fun, big personality, and that's been really reflected by the the feedback we've seen online with just people jumping on games. This is is true legend of the industry. So i mean it's nice, I think, when you run these pieces every now and then. actually had some great insight into you know where the industry needs to go and you know what she's learned over the years, but i think sometimes just to...
00:04:28
Speaker
put those stories out there and remind people how many great people um are there working in the beer industry. um And I think, it's so you know, I guess it's also been very encouraging. We've had a very great response to our, but I guess, the teasers for the Pint of Origin Festival launch, which will be live around about the time this podcast hits your favourite podcast platform.
00:04:49
Speaker
Yeah, so take a look at that on pintoforigin.com. But with the trailers, it it also helps to get some very fun local industry personalities in in your, um in your videos, it definitely gets a reaction.
Interview with Dave McGill: Deep South Brewing Journey
00:05:01
Speaker
So thanks. It certainly has. There's been a few at Oscar nomination pleas have gone out already. I think they could they might be tongue-in-cheek in some or all cases, but um it's certainly been a fun new approach to take and we've got a few more of them to come before the festival comes around.
00:05:16
Speaker
Great. Well, on to this week's main guest. So Dave McGill, this is a chat that Craig and I had when we were down in Hobart ah for the CIBD conference. Dave was a natural guest. We wanted to grab him while we were down there and have a chat.
00:05:30
Speaker
ah he He runs Deep South Brewing and head brewer there and co-founder. He started that in 2021 with a couple of mates, one with a big publican background and the other who works in graphic design.
00:05:40
Speaker
ah But before that, and a lot of people in the industry would potentially know Dave for his long time as head head brewer and then head brewer slash general manager of Moo Brew. ah Fascinatingly, he was the second Moo head brewer after OJ, who now runs Hot Products Australia and uh jack viney is is now the head brewer so it's a 20 year old brewery that's actually only had three uh three head brewers which is uh yeah it has to be a record in australia yeah yeah and it's a great chat as well like dave he's he's a real character he's one of the most genuinely lovely people he is almost like the dictionary definition of the gentle giant um even though i'm told he has like an eighth down black belt in karate or whatever so i don't know gentle but i suppose that is a art of self-defense as opposed to uh
00:06:24
Speaker
aggression But um yeah, he's he's just one of those guys, whenever you sort of bump into him around the traps, it's always great to catch up and have a chat. So it was awesome that you and Craig were able to sit down with him. um I guess before we get to that chat, you know, talking to great people in the industry, don't forget to get your nominations in for Have You Done a Rallings? Nominating Good Beer Citizens, which you can do at craftypint.com slash Rallings, R-I-L-L-L-I-N-G-S. And also, if you'd like to nominate a Bluestone Yeast Brewery of the Month,
00:06:51
Speaker
You can do that at craftypint.com slash bluestone, B-L-U-E-S-T-O-N-E. So before we get to the main chat with Dave, I guess, Will, over to you again. Well, yes, first of all, a bit of an apology. If you're watching the chat on YouTube, Dave may disappear at some point. there was a We were underneath a skylight and the sun went over us at a particularly crucial moment. So um embarrassingly, it was also my first time setting up with these cameras and and Dave actually congratulated me on air.
00:07:23
Speaker
And I took a bit of credit for how well I'd done things. So it it only affects a bit of the video. Audio is still fine, but just... um He does get rather bleached out by the sun, doesn't he ah he he? He literally becomes a ghost, I think we can say. So sorry about that. But um hopefully that won't stop you from liking and subscribing or sending us your feedback.
00:07:44
Speaker
Cheers. Cheers.
00:07:48
Speaker
All aboard, get ready to travel the world of beer at 22 pubs, bars and breweries across Melbourne this May. Next stop, Pint of Origin Festival.
00:08:00
Speaker
Visit pintoforigin.com. Dave,
00:08:06
Speaker
da welcome to the podcast. Thanks very much for having me, boys. fantastic to be here. Do you want to tell us a little bit about
Challenges & Strategies at Deep South Brewing
00:08:12
Speaker
where we are at Deep South? Yeah, yeah, for sure. So we're currently upstairs in Deep South in North Hobart in Argyle st Street. So yeah, we yeah we started this ah nearly four years ago now.
00:08:24
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. So mezzanine level wasn't here. So this wasn't this wasn't part of ah part of the plan until um yeah until we built the brewery and we needed to get more bums on seats. So we luckily enough managed to get a mezzanine level in.
00:08:38
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, and it is very much obviously a warehouse. Like um what was it before? how much work went into it as well? Yeah, yeah, lots of work. So we bought building in end of 2020 and we gutted the entire place so wasn't an electrical cable or a piece of original plumbing left by the time. What was it before? It used to be a, it was a motorbike shop actually. It had a bit of a. Surely a panel beater because we're surrounded by car yards. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, yeah. I had a little bit of a colorful history in, uh, there was company called bra motorcycles.
00:09:14
Speaker
Um, and he was young entrepreneur of the book year a few times and stuff like that. And, um, yeah, got himself into a bit of hot water with the federal police about repurposing motorbikes brought in from China and, uh,
00:09:28
Speaker
Yeah, and it's sort of quite a public unfolding of what happened. Oh, there you go. I feel like I need to do an imperial stout called Missing Numbers, I reckon. Well, it's nice to see there's the odd controversy in other industries as well. That's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're not alone out there. No, that's right. Great stuff. Yep, yep.
00:09:47
Speaker
Fantastic. And um so, yeah, tell us about the, I guess, what was the the vibe, the aesthetic? like What were you trying to go for with the with the fit out? Yeah, yeah, for sure. So early days, it was my current business partner and and business partner that we lost early on. They both approached me um and wanted to do a brewery.
00:10:04
Speaker
um And at that stage, I was obviously GM and head bro of Moo and I sort of had almost given up a little bit on sort of doing my own thing and and the investor sort of side of things had worked out and and we found we were actually looking at a space over the back and the real estate agent sort of said to us, look, if you're If you're looking for another building, this potentially would be on the market. So we actually bought it off the market, which was great.
00:10:28
Speaker
um And our main goal was to not go down the straight brew pub model. um There's not the demographic, I don't think, or the numbers in Tasmania to support um just a pure based you know brew pub model.
00:10:47
Speaker
So we wanted to make it an inclusive hospitality space for everyone, really. um So we worked pretty heavily on the bar. and We obviously do wood fire pizza, which is not unusual in the in the beer scene. Yeah. But we also have a lot of other aspects to the menu as well.
00:11:01
Speaker
um And we also have got a pretty significant wine portfolio and whiskies and spirits and things like that so that um you know we're well aware that not everyone comes in here drinking or looking for craft beer.
00:11:12
Speaker
um so Yeah, we'll take their money off in any which way we can really. So yeah, it's just a matter of making sure we've got an offering for everybody really. Yeah. And I know you did treat that very seriously. I remember the first time I came in here, you were talking about the wood-fired oven and like yeah where you'd seen other versions and things like that. It was obviously, even though you were coming in as a head brewer, found a like a a real precision in in what you wanted. Absolutely. yes Yeah. And look, I mean, the wood-fired pizza oven, you know, it was one of the first things we bought into this building. Yeah.
00:11:39
Speaker
and And it weighs 3.7 tonnes, so it'll be the last thing that ever leaves this building too, I imagine. And it doesn't have a rotating base. It's not gas. It is purely authentic. um And I do remember having a chat with Ben Krause and Richard Watkins about pizza ovens in the early days. and And um they said I was mad doing what I was doing.
00:12:00
Speaker
um And they were right. Yeah, but it's not my problem, so I don't have to do pizza, so it's not to too bad. But yeah, it definitely creates an awful lot of work, that's for sure. Yeah, but um yeah, they have a really good reputation, which is great.
00:12:13
Speaker
Daunting to, I guess, go from that, you know, we'll talk about your history at Moo Brew and your role there over the years, and ah but to take on your own business, your own enterprise, owner-operator, head brewer, ah getting down to the nitty-gritty details of the pizza oven and and all the little um
Branding & Brewing Philosophy at Deep South
00:12:30
Speaker
elements. like what Tell us about that. What was that feeling like? Yeah, so it was the investment side of things. So one of our investors is also one of our business partners. So that makes life a little bit easier. So that was probably one of the real keys.
00:12:44
Speaker
It was daunting. It probably wasn't as daunting um in the early days as what it became sort of when we sort of, you know, COVID was... obviously just sort of fresh at that stage and and we didn't know what the landscape was going to look like. um And then, you know, we got the build done during sort of the first part of COVID and stuff like that. So um yeah, the beer side of things and the recipe development and all that kind of stuff, that wasn't as daunting. But then when you're looking at a 600 square metre warehouse that you need to fill and um it feels very finite when you enter your own business, I think. It um it feels like a...
00:13:20
Speaker
but There's not a lot of other places to go, so you just really need to make it work. And that was one of the more daunting things. It was like, I don't i can't walk away from this now. um And whereas most of other jobs, as much as I was entrenched with Mubru in the early days, um you know you always knew that if the time came, yeah um it was time to move on. um But yeah, we true to the name, we are deep in this.
00:13:44
Speaker
yeah we yeah We're not going anywhere in a hurry. Yeah. Yeah. And, um, what about moving from a brewer side of thing where it's very large production brewery and you've gone into this general manager role as well to being here. I know the first time I came in again, you were alone on the tools. Um, and I imagine you're still on the tools pretty heavily these days. Yeah. Yeah, different tools. um So ah yeah, it was just me for the first sort of 18 months on the tools and that was hard.
00:14:11
Speaker
um you know Other than the steam and the electricity, I pretty much built the brew house, all the glycol and air and everything else. so um So that was good fun um because there wasn't a lot of consequences at that stage when we were doing it. But um yeah, they were long days and long weeks and months.
00:14:29
Speaker
um But yeah, so coming into this sort of realm um after, you know, being in that bigger production sort of facility, it was interesting because obviously the the venue as well. um But I've got a strong background in hospitality. I've always sort of skirted in around hospitality my whole life, really. It's pretty much all I've ever known. Yeah.
00:14:50
Speaker
um So we had a pretty good idea about what we wanted this place to look like. And again, that's evolved though, you know, best laid plans of mice and men, you know, like it's it's definitely evolved as we've moved on and it's not what we thought it was going to be when when we first opened it. It's probably shifted a little bit again.
00:15:06
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And what, what drives that to a degree? Like is Hobart a bit different in terms of like, I don't know, post COVID, Tassie obviously had a lot of internal tourism, people coming as, has that shaped your beard or cost of living presses as well. Everyone's dealing with going out like, like what's sort of led some switches. Yeah, look, ah we're probably we're probably not in the the foot traffic in this area. We're probably still, even though we're within a 10-minute walk of the CBD, ah most people in Tassie, wonder that might as well be a 50-minute Uber ride to get out to these parts. The city does really end, doesn't it? It does end significantly. so
00:15:41
Speaker
ah Look, that's probably shaped a little bit of what it is. We're definitely more of a destination venue, even though we're super close to the CBD. And that sort of shaped what the offering has looked like. And again, the demographic of people that we have here. So we actually find ourselves being probably a little bit quieter in summer than what we are in winter, which is unusual because... um Yeah, this gets very cold in winter, um being ah being a big warehouse. So yeah, there's been a few of those sort of demographic, obviously, um you know, around here, we have quite a bit of residential as well. And it's probably, you know, if you were to live here,
00:16:16
Speaker
you're probably on the yeah upper end of the socioeconomic environment. um So we find that a lot of people have shacks and so forth over Christmas and summer that they go to. So we're probably a little bit quieter. So we actually shut for two weeks over between Christmas and New Year, which is great for us because we get slammed with Christmas parties and everything else. yeah And um I normally duck off and go sailing around that time. So it's it's kind of good. Yeah. But yeah, it certainly has changed a little bit in the cost of living we've definitely noticed. Yeah.
00:16:42
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're not immune to that. No. And what about getting your beer around the state? and You were saying before that you do have a bit a fair presence. Was that always part of the goal?
00:16:53
Speaker
Yeah. um I was probably looking forward to having more of a on-premise model yeah um than an off-premise model. And we're probably swinging that pretty heavily now.
00:17:05
Speaker
We've actually got our own distribution company. We parted ways with our distributor company. or 18 months two years ago now and and sort of started our own thing and and we've got a heavy wine portfolio and some some cool sort of independent spirits and things like that.
00:17:18
Speaker
um And so that's helped a lot um because we get ah full control over where the beer goes. um And we are statewide now. um It was always my aim never to have to send beer off the island. Once that brew does sort 300,000 litres a year, we're kind of done.
00:17:33
Speaker
And that was always, that's one of the things that hasn't really changed. We don't have any desire really or ambition to move beer off the island or get any bigger than that. I think we'll just um try and make sure that we maintain our relevance and our volume and um and keep it pretty low-key.
00:17:49
Speaker
Yeah, cool. I'd love to talk about the beer for a second. you know We've got a few cans here in front of us. You've got ah a Flat Witch XBA, Black Rice Lager, a Lion Rock Session Ale. I'm...
00:18:03
Speaker
particularly interested in the branding and the and the designs going on. if If anyone hasn't seen it, definitely jump on the Deep South Brewing Co. website. um I'd love to hear more about that and and just the approach to to brewing as well, the different styles and so on. is it Have you got a...
00:18:18
Speaker
a market in mind or is it a you brew what you like to drink like what's your approach here yeah and he yeah over the years yeah so when we started that one of the hardest things was the name like um that's why all the names are all the beers i don't i'm not witty or smart enough to come up with unusual but smart names so coming up the name of the brewery was actually one of the hardest things we did um and obviously deep south being sort of a you know we're quite far south now so um And then I've known Seb, who's one of our business partners, who owns Open Season Studios in Melbourne. um
00:18:51
Speaker
And we approached him to do a lot of the design and artwork. And then he he came on as business partner as well. um And he went right down the rabbit hole. It was actually um Dave and Cam. I don't remember if they would even remember, but I remember hearing them one day.
00:19:07
Speaker
talk about mountain goat um when they named mountain goat they wanted it to be a robust animal that can stand on steep slopes and uh and deal with the with the mayhem that is the industry and and i uh spent a lot of time on the southwest coast sailing and and that kind of stuff and and when we were talking about it those islands and rocks have been there for a long time and for me they represent probably a little bit of consistency within
Moo Brew's Influence & Tasmanian Craft Beer Scene
00:19:30
Speaker
uh such an ever-changing industry yeah i like it yeah and the weather down there is certainly um is certainly that and they'll be here for a lot longer than we will be and um yeah so actually all the on the cairns the longitude and latitude of all the um rocks and or islands is actually on the side of the can as well so you can google map it's kind of cool um and a lot of the line work was done by Seb and he went right down the rabbit hole of research around the flora and fauna that appears on the islands as well and around there so
00:20:02
Speaker
The pedra, which we don't have, but that's part of it. There's a little skink that is endemic to just pedrobanka, which is a rock 68 nautical miles southeast of Tassie. And then and they only find this little skink on this island. And so that that's made an appearance. um Some of the kelp and some of the flora and fauna that sort of surrounds those islands as has made it onto the artwork.
00:20:25
Speaker
yeah I love it. It's just yeah it's very ah minimalist, simplistic, but yeah quite there's something that draws you in on it. Yeah. yeah yeah and This is the core now. we've We've sort of got five or six in the core now, and and there's plenty of other islands down there, but we'll sort of stick with these ones, I think, at the moment.
00:20:42
Speaker
yeah What about your approach to the beers? you know Famously, Moo didn't have seasonal releases really for much of the time you were there. That would have been something came in the last few years, yeah I think. um do Do you kind of see building Deep South a bit like that or is enjoying brewing more different beers? yeah Yeah, a little bit of both. I sort of started towards the end of Moo sort of playing around with some of that limited release sort of series. And Jack's obviously continued that really, really well. And with the addition of manky Sally's and that kind of stuff. So, ah but for me, um balance is key in beer for me. I really love um when a brewer can execute the balance between the, you know, malt hops and yeast.
00:21:26
Speaker
And, um and that's what I kind of show in my beers. I really sort of suit, look for the balance i'm not the kind of brewer to go out and um do double upside down pineapple infused um quadruple ipas that's that's they've got their place absolutely and i enjoy really wanted to brew an ipa that's right yeah and now the ipa for us seeing a deep south one drops collab coming up yeah yeah yeah and i love those spaces and i love that passion that they have and my passion probably just lies in the consistency and the delicate nature of um of the balance in the beers
00:22:01
Speaker
And it also is what pays our wage, basically. um You know, that the beers that we've done, we do some sours. and We do quite a few seasonals. um We're probably bit short on seasonals at the moment at this time of year because we've been flat out with the core range, which is a good problem to have. but um yeah, we definitely drop. We've had guest taps a lot here as well, which I quite like. Like, I really like the idea of having other people's breweries.
00:22:23
Speaker
um beers here because, um yeah, it just sort of complements your range. And I'm well aware that um there's other people out there that are so much better at making hazies than what I am. And so I enjoy drinking them and and we bring them into the brewery and and we do that. So, um yeah, but for me, um the consistency is something that I really enjoy and it's something that I've sort of probably, um yeah, put an emphasis on in the in the brewing process.
00:22:48
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What about with the team? um I kind of wondered if it might still be just you these days. and maybe yeah Maybe that's how you'd set it up, but we did see your brewer leave earlier. So you obviously have a brew team around you now. Yeah. Yeah. So I thought I was going to get to about 150,000 litres solo.
00:23:06
Speaker
um And I reckon I probably got to about 120, 130 solo. And it became quite evident after that that we've got a little fuse. You know, the brew house is only a 12 hect with double brew leather tanks.
00:23:18
Speaker
But we've I've sort of spent money in areas that we can um make it efficient for a small team. So there's myself and I've got two other brewers, Tash and Rob, both ex-Sydney.
00:23:31
Speaker
And they sort of slotted in, they were already moving down and they sort of probably just approached me the right time. And we're obviously with the other businesses that probably takes a bit more of my time up. um The distribution company is only less than two years old now.
00:23:45
Speaker
um The recipes have sort of... you know, towards when Rob started, it sort of took me probably 18 months to dial the recipes in, I reckon, and to where they are. And and we're now um with sort of some minor tweaks.
00:23:58
Speaker
And it's also great to have other people come in with other ideas and other experience in other breweries because, you know, You know, I'm old and I've and i've worked in um lots of breweries, I'm probably a bit more set in my ways than what I should be. And so having them come in and and challenge, um you know, processes and procedures and things like that, and then bring their own ideas in.
00:24:17
Speaker
um I think you if it was just me in there bagging around on the tools, that it'd probably get stale pretty quickly, I reckon. Yeah, yeah. full. Well, you know, you've got venue, you've got brewery, you've got distribution business. It's nice. You've got to welcome more people into the Magilliverse. That's right. Yes. Yeah, yeah, The whole empire. Yeah, that's right.
00:24:35
Speaker
How welcome they feel sometimes where when the stress is under the pump is ah is up to up to them. But yeah, it's, um yeah, there's a lot going on at the moment. And um I feel like we've sort of developed a strategy where, you know, we need to probably control a bit more of it rather than relinquishing some of that control. So, yeah, we definitely try and look after distribution and and the venues and things like that.
00:24:57
Speaker
Yeah. Cool. I think let's take a break and then we can talk about those early days. Yeah, yeah, sure. They were so long ago from the sounds of things. Yeah, that's it. yeah Cool. Cheers.
00:25:13
Speaker
And we'll be right back. There's no doubt that running a craft brewery can be tough. There are so many moving parts and often not enough hands to manage it all. And when things get tight, sadly, it's often the marketing efforts to get put on the back burner.
00:25:26
Speaker
But believe me, friends, you're not talking about your business, nobody else is either. And that's where the Crafty Pint can help. We've spent over a decade building up the largest and most engaged audience of craft beer drinkers anywhere in the country.
00:25:39
Speaker
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00:26:42
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And now, back to the podcast.
00:26:49
Speaker
Welcome back. Thanks for having me again. Made it for the first minute. For round two. Ding, ding. Nice long break there. Dave, do you want to chat about the early days? You did hint that there was a lot of hospitality involved. How do you sort of start out and move
Entering the Brewing Industry & Future of Craft Beer
00:27:05
Speaker
into brewing? Yeah.
00:27:06
Speaker
So I started working in hospitality on, I started doing security when I was 17, just before I turned 18. So yeah, 97. So a long time ago. And then i went to uni and um and failed dismally at uni and ended up running the uni bar. um But you were good at that. Yeah, was good at that. And then, um toboxs yeah, yeah. And then sort of left uni and went into hospital um and sort of found like yeah my space and really enjoyed um the early days of HOSPO.
00:27:37
Speaker
um I very rarely jump behind the bar here now. um I think I'm definitely probably a bit ah washed up as far as HOSPO is concerned nowadays. um It's much easier for me to sort of deal with it when the venue's shut.
00:27:50
Speaker
um But yeah, so early days and then that's how I met AJ. So would have been, he came back from doing his Master of Brewing at Harriet Watt in, would have been 03, I reckon, maybe 04 and we worked together at a pub called the Mayfair and hibert in Hobart yeah and was sort of a heavy sort of university pub and was good times and and then David Walsh had um announced that he was uh he was going to open a brewery um and sort Owen had moved uh into that role as head brewer and sort of and I remember sitting with OJ at the Mayfair before um Uber had started drinking Little Creatures Pale Ale and
00:28:30
Speaker
and saying that if we could ever make a beer um like Little Creatures Pale Ale, that we would have made it in the beer industry. um you know I reckon i we can blame that beer, I think, for kicking off most other small brewers in Australia. It was so often the um the linchpin that got everyone it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, i mean, obviously, I heard your podcast with Sam and you know there's been a lot of good brewers come out of the Little Creatures stable, that's for sure. So they've they've definitely played a part in so many of...
00:28:56
Speaker
so many breweries and it's still still one of the coolest stories, I think. yeah um But yeah, and then and then I actually went to work at Mona yeah in F&B in the hospitality side of things um and with the intention ah behind the scenes that I was going to move into the brewery. And so I sort of moved into Moo Brew in 2006, towards the end with OJ.
00:29:19
Speaker
and um yeah So only a couple of years in into Moo Brew kicking off, hey? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we tapped the first kegs of Moo at the Mayfair um when I was licensee at the Mayfair after AJ had been licensee. Oh, wow.
00:29:33
Speaker
Yeah, and then we launched in 2005. For 20 years. Yeah, yeah, yeah, which crazy.
00:29:41
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. And you you were saying, well, i that Moo Brew in its 20-year history has only had three? Well, they're on to their third head brewer, Jack, which is pretty incredible, isn't it? It is, yeah. do What do you think has driven that? Obviously, you've all enjoyed your time there or wanted to really stay yeah around. yeah Workplace benefits. yeah ah Look, it's a special, I think,
00:30:04
Speaker
you know Jack worked for me for a long time um and I worked for OJ for a long time. So normally the head brewer comes in from from the stable. um But back then as well, there wasn't that many head brewers kicking around 20 years ago. So you sort of had to grow into that role a little bit. um But the unique story, the bottle shape and everything else, there's something about Mona that you either work for them for a really short period of time or you're there 10 or 15 years. We could do another whole podcast about David Walsh and I'd love to know more about what it would be like to work with that guy. I'm so fascinated by him, but we'll stick with you for this For sure. It's cool day. It's a cool too. Yeah.
00:30:42
Speaker
um And so, yeah, um look, those early days of Moo were pretty amazing. The industry was, you know, obviously pretty young at that stage.
00:30:52
Speaker
But we also had some incredible brewers and some incredible beers. I mean, I remember having Grace at Embarking Duck. and, you know, the original bee's knees from Brad, you know, um in the fridge before I knew who Brad was. And I'm lucky enough now to call him ah a really close personal friend. And he probably spends more time in Tassie than than anywhere else at the moment. So um he comes down a lot. But, you know, so we saw those beers come through and...
00:31:15
Speaker
And we were super lucky that those beers sort of had paved the way for for what we were doing. And um it was probably not quite the introspective sort of nature that we have now. You know, we always had to look a further afield for where the trends were. and But i I feel now that within Australia, there's enough breweries and there's an incredible brewers and depth of knowledge that, you know, we're not really 10 or 15 years behind the US s like we used to be anymore, you know. We're not seeing that kind of stuff. We've sort of, you know, we've sort of in the last sort of 10 years or so, I reckon we've paved our own way and you know and I think the brewers have a better idea about what the general public want and um and a better affiliation with them and um a better connection so yeah um but those early days you know we were all young and we all used to ride motorbikes together and go down to the shack together and party together and drink together and and that kind of stuff and we sort of felt I guess that we were part of a movement you know in the early days it was
00:32:07
Speaker
i don't think we knew what it was going to turn out to be so we were just kind of rocking up to work every day getting to make beer it's kind of cool um but yeah the probably the pressures now the external pressures are probably a little bit different to what we had back then and that's for sure yeah yeah and those early mooberies it was um quite euro focused i think um at least when i started drinking them compared to a lot of the other um beers in the australian market that they were really looking hard at america as well so it You always did have a point of difference, I think, in what you were doing. Yeah, and I think that came, you know, that was driven a lot by OJ. Obviously, he'd been in the UK.
00:32:44
Speaker
And him and I have very similar philosophies around that, and I've probably carried that through. ah You know, I love lagers and I love you i love American palate. like all beers, but um I think what OJ was looking for at that time and what we really strove for in Mubru was that sort of clean, sessionable consistency.
00:33:02
Speaker
um And that was always sort of Mubru's mantra, really. um And, um yeah, and then that sort of sort of evolved into into what it is and um and now...
00:33:13
Speaker
you know It took Mankey Sally's and that kind of stuff to to probably change up Moo and it also took me to leave. um I feel like my time there is totally different the way Jack's time was and even though there's only been three of us, I feel like we've all probably had different periods of time over that time and and we've had our different stamps on on on what MooBrew looks like nowadays.
00:33:32
Speaker
Yeah, what about, um so for those who don't know the story as well, so the original brewery was within Mona. Yeah. And then you um there was a significant expansion and i with OJ still as a head brewer to a new site. Like, what was it like?
00:33:45
Speaker
Were there along for that? Yeah. Right as well? It would have been quite um interesting. I'm trying to think of who else was expanding in that way in Australia at that time. Probably yeah one else was not building such a good brewery. No, we sort of all, you know, that was when the DME became, you know, that the that was when the sort of 35 hectares 50 hectare ME system sort of came to their fruition. Like towards the end of our expansion, um you know, Mountain Goat had done theirs, Stone of Wood were sort of up and about and they were sort of doing what they were doing.
00:34:15
Speaker
um So there was a few that was sort of hitting the market and expanding at that time. um So we had we ran both breweries side by side. So when we, the brew house that we had Mona was a Slovenian PSS system, which we actually bought from Costa who, uh, yeah. Yeah. laster rain He was the salesman back then. So that was kind of, um, that was cool. Um,
00:34:40
Speaker
And we ran both breweries side by side. It was also just as Mona had opened. So we always talk about Mona, but Moo Brew precedes Mona by quite some time. So Moo was nearly um probably, don't know, six years old by the time Mona had actually opened.
00:34:56
Speaker
um So we ran both breweries side by side. um we It was hard because obviously everyone in Tassie knew styles of beer. that we made him and then we we bought a brand new kit and all the beers changed. So, yeah, so the first sort of trial batches that came out of the Bridgewater site, the big site, probably weren't the best versions of Moobrew that we'd ever seen. um But we'd also launched Mona at the time, so everyone was pretty happy about... um about that process and we probably put you know some probably subpar beer into the punters but they didn't care because there was a shiny new museum that was kicking around and we were all busily trying to replicate recipes that we'd been brewing for five or six years on a totally different kit. So that's quite hard.
00:35:39
Speaker
um And then I left not long after we'd finished that expansion and went to, i met my now wife and She'd just moved to Melbourne and I grew up in Melbourne, so it was was kind of like going home for a little while and um and built Temple over there. And then I came back in 2013, I think, is and then worked with OJ again for a little while and then took over as head brewer and GM um towards the end of that.
00:36:02
Speaker
Yeah. And then decommissioned the Mona Brewery and that went to Pun Road, actually, up in the Yarra. Oh, yeah. And then, yeah, and then we just solely focused on the production facility out of Mona or out of Bridgewater.
00:36:17
Speaker
good Yeah. Yeah. And what about um moving into that general manager role as well? did Did you kind of foresee that coming or push back at all as somebody who does love making beer? Yeah. Look, I actually turned that role down um at the start and I just wanted to be the head broiler because i obviously OJ was the general manager in head broiler and And I saw the level of stress and the division that it in his own mind that it took to to do that.
00:36:45
Speaker
And we started to bring, and again, this was, you know, 2013, so still reasonably early days in the scene. and And they started to bring some general managers down and Mona's such a unique place that you have to have a very good understanding of the culture of Mona and how it works in order to operate within that business because the business is so big and there's so many moving parts. Mm-hmm.
00:37:05
Speaker
So when we started to meet some of the general managers, um potential clients or potential GMs were coming down, it became quite evident that that I needed to probably do it myself. um So I wrote Walshie a but very long email and said, look, I'd like to put my hand up. And and um yeah, and then he sort of said, well, let's go and have a crack. I'd love to hear more about that, that working within that Monarch environment and it is you know such an eclectic number of or range of businesses come attractions come avant-garde entertainment experiences or whatever you want to call it. yeah i
00:37:46
Speaker
you know Running a brewery within that and a hospitality enterprise like Was there much, could you kind of run your own show or did you have to sort of work within a ah cultural framework? Like how how does that play out? Yeah, we were quite lucky with Moo because probably MooBerry saw the early days of the design and marketing and probably is where Mona dragged a lot of its um consistency from. you know You know, Lee Carmichael, who was one of the head designers with Moo early days and obviously worked with David on Mona.
00:38:15
Speaker
was very tight. I mean, I remember trying to get the gold on a T-shirt and if the gold wasn't right on the T-shirt, he'd be he'd lose it, you know. Yeah, right. And getting the Moobrew gold turned out to be very hard. There's no Pantone colour for it, so you can't exactly just bring someone up and say, you know, this is the colour we need. Yeah. So that was interesting. And then Moobrew was sort of very standalone, but then as Mona developed and as...
00:38:38
Speaker
as Because at that stage, it was just David and it still still stems a lot from just David's idea. So there's so many moving parts, but there's only one boss.
00:38:49
Speaker
um So that throws its own challenges at the best times as well um because – ah you know, inevitably that was all driven solely through his vision. And so you're either on board or you had to figure out a way very quickly as to how to get on board. And sometimes artistic vision doesn't make commercial sense. so especially not in the Mona realm. Yeah, there is no such thing as a commercial sense and art vision in Mona, that's for sure. So, yeah, and then and then that that changed a lot as, you know, as as we weren't immune to it at Mona um and as, you know,
00:39:23
Speaker
the cost of living and everything else increased, it became you know quite apparent that they needed to be all standalone businesses and all the entities needed to um you know um my face yeah wash their face. That's exactly right. so yeah and that and That created its own um because that wasn't where Moobroo was set up in the early days. you know was It was you know the bottle I think we were paying.
00:39:47
Speaker
$1.60 or something like that for the first bottles of MooBru, like empty bottles that were like, you know, are getting made in the UK. Per unit. Per unit, yeah. Jesus. Yeah, that's right. They were stunning though.
00:39:58
Speaker
They were, yeah, and they still are. And it's still such an important part of the process um and still obviously it's so good to see them um that they haven't lost that. And that's something that David has always held on to. But we were quite autonomous in what we did with him, Moo, and, you know, as a business unit manager.
00:40:15
Speaker
um Talking to other business unit managers, I definitely probably scared it under the radar a little bit. yeah for sure yeah You're just a a small pocket over here making beer. I'm just a happy brewer cruising around, you know, making sugar water. um So, yeah. And then obviously as the festivals unfolded, you know, and Dark Mofo sort of came to life, um there was, yeah, there was some ah definitely some...
00:40:39
Speaker
bigger plans at play, that's for sure. yeah Well, what a great story to be part of as well. And, yeah, I think the legacy that Mona and Moo and and the festivals, that whole thing, it's transformed Hobart. And to be part of that, I think, would have been pretty exciting. Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And and look to to sort of be a part of that and see that internally, maybe took some of the little some of the gloss off a little bit. And so now it's kind of, you know, the people that...
00:41:08
Speaker
supported me and that I was in the trenches with, we can have those conversations, but they're very different to probably what the general public would say. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's another podcast. We're working at a sort of circus where everything's made of chocolate. That's right. We've got a lot more podcasts to do after this one. Yeah. That's right. Yeah.
00:41:26
Speaker
Yeah. Cool, cool. what What's your take on um the Hobart and the general Tasmanian scene? Obviously, someone who, what I mean, when you started at Moove, that was one of, like, two brewer jobs in the state, maybe, or three? Yeah. Like, where a couple of minute or five or ten minute walk from two or three off the top of my head. Absolutely. Yeah, like... like I've also heard there's – today I heard there's 30 distilleries in Tasmania. it's Yeah. It's now from Lark being, you know, the first distillery in 200 years to now 30 of them operating around this this small, you know, island. It's – yeah. It was illegal to distill when Bill Lark started, you know, like, mean – Yeah. Yeah, in Tassie. So, yeah, it was – he sort of pioneered a bit of that. But, yeah, look –
00:42:10
Speaker
um Now the scene, I think, um like we were talking about off camera before, um it's almost the cost of living and and, you know, we've seen a few things. that We've probably seen ah less breweries coming into Tassie now because of how much it costs to send beer across. From the mainland? Yeah, so that's probably um created a little bit of a local economy and tas Tasmanians are very fiercely... um
00:42:36
Speaker
passionate about their own products as well. um And so, look, I think with Hobart at the moment, we haven't really seen anyone sort of go into VA, which is unusual. I don't know. Might be the only state. I would imagine it might be the only Certainly it the only state, yeah. Yeah, that hasn't probably seen them. NT and Canberra are safe as well. That's right. yeah Very few jurisdictions. Yeah, that's it.
00:43:00
Speaker
Maybe the ATO are just focusing on the way. They'll get to you guys. Don't worry. We'll get there. But I think, um and and with that, everyone within the brewing industry has, because um it wasn't as if we had a Little Creatures where everyone could come with similar ideas and then do similar beers and stuff.
00:43:19
Speaker
Everyone has sort of had their own um slant on what they do. and And so what our offering is totally different to T-Bones and totally different to Shambles. The beers are similar, but again, the beauty of it is, you know, the brew houses and the kits are different. And so the beers are quite different.
00:43:35
Speaker
Um, and um And then we've got, you know, um the northern end of the state. You know, i mean, obviously, and Tassie's been very, you know, famously had Bogues and Cascade. And, you know, 25 years ago, was no way you would have drank Cascade north of Campbelltown, um you know, or and vice versa. You wouldn't have drunk Bogues south. But now yeah now I think we've seen with the education of consumers um that that those lines are blurred now and and that's probably helped.
00:44:01
Speaker
um We also... have got access to some beautiful hops that are grown in Tassie as well, which has been fantastic. um And so, yeah, you're quite connected with the – and we've got our own malting plant down here as well. um So you're quite connected with the raw material and and with the manufacturers of that as well. So, you know, um I think everyone within Tassie has done the HPA tour, you know. like um I feel like there's a there's a ah right size, right market, right? kind of vibe going on in Tasmania and and and all of the, not the Bogues and Cascades, obviously, but the craft breweries, I feel like they're all at that right size to, you know, maybe come under the excise cap and they're sort of able to distribute enough beer to, you know, keep keep to have a very viable business yeah with a hospitality operation or whatever it might be, but and not not having to worry about, um you know, sending beer over to the mainland or whatever it might be. Yeah, that's right. And look, one of the most humbling things when we started this was um I went from being, you know, obviously the head brewer of Mu, the big end of town in the in ah in a small pond, ah to the upstart new brewery ringing up other people saying, can I borrow this and can I borrow that? And, you know, like...
00:45:13
Speaker
easy lab yeah that's it you know yeah and so that was that was probably the most beautiful humbling thing i think in the in the the build of this process was being able to ring you know i actually worked at shambles i did some time with shambles uh while we were building this because obviously there was no income um while we were building it as well so yeah lucky enough to obviously have you know some pretty serious friends that definitely helped us out along the way and um I know Scotty, who's not with HBC anymore, but I was speaking with Brennan when I was at Moo and his business plan was solid and that stage Hobart was fledgling and I said to him, you're going need a brewer and he said, yeah. And I said, well, you know, it's going to come from Moo because he's at that stage.
00:45:56
Speaker
And so I introduced him and Scotty and and and the rest was history after that and they've done some amazing things. um you know It was pretty cool to be there when I got um state champion at the last Indies. so Yeah, I think um there's been a and but the same you know nationwide, but probably...
00:46:13
Speaker
hyper-focused in Tassie, you can't exist independently. You know, you need the help from everyone else. Yeah. ah I do wonder if um, you talk about your staff coming from the mainland, like, um, if doubt Tassie does feel that more than anyone else. So in terms of but like like Scotty leaving you, like, yeah is there that, um, there's only so many places staff can go. So that must build a little bit of pressure or maybe put the reins on people a little bit. Yeah, look, and and for me, the comforting factor was that both of my brewers had moved here independently of me offering them a job.
00:46:45
Speaker
I think I probably would have been more stressed about offering them a job and and getting them to commit to move to Tassie, yeah especially in the uncertain times that we had post-COVID. So, yeah, that's been – and, again, we've seen that with Fox Friday and stuff like that. They've got a lot of interstate brewers and things like that are moving down. and And we just don't have the big breweries with the capabilities, you know, like, you know,
00:47:07
Speaker
north of a million litre sort of breweries where if you've been in within that brewery in Sydney for five or ten, you know, five years or something, you're ready to take the head brewer role. And so we're probably seeing people now that that pathway is not accessible for them, moving to Tassie and and looking for that pathway, um which has been great. um it's definitely It's definitely helped because we don't have the...
00:47:28
Speaker
You know, I mean, Stonewood would have turned out 10 or 15 brewers a year, I reckon, that had beautiful access to incredible, you know, QC and C-boxes and all the other kind of stuff. And then they could go into a smaller independent brewery and and then use those skills and and then lift that up. And we just don't have those breweries in Tassie. So they are definitely coming in.
00:47:44
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. That skill set. Well, Dave, I think it's about time to finish up. So as we like to, we've got three questions in the crafty pint to um throw your way. And I was just wondering, kind of looking at the past, present and future. And first up, I mean, whether it was when you started Deep South here, or maybe when you started brewing, if there was something you could tell yourself, um what what would it be? Don't do it, Dave. Yeah. I was actually thinking about this question. And I think the beauty of it is, if you knew, you wouldn't do it.
00:48:14
Speaker
um And, And when you do know, um you're it's already too late. So then it's the fight or flight mentality, I think, in in this sort of situation. Like i was saying before, it's that finite nature.
00:48:25
Speaker
And I think it's probably what's brought the best out and the worst out, unfortunately, like where people have really struggled is is um is the fact that there is not a lot of other you know david there's a lot of people in the brewing game that have come from other professions that thought it was going to be you know a sea change or a tree change. and going to make beer and it was all going to be good. And and um I think if you knew the reality of it, maybe you wouldn't have done it anyway. um and so And we would have missed all these amazing minds coming into the industry, albeit somewhat burnt out sometimes after you know doing their own thing. But we if you knew everything, ah yeah, the chances are you probably wouldn't have actually done I always query that about the, you know, you've got the...
00:49:08
Speaker
The guy at home who loves to barbecue or whatever or do that and someone says, oh, you should start a food truck. And it's like, if you enjoy something as a hobby, maybe it's not the best thing to do as a professional career because it can be a lot more challenging. Yeah, when I sat down with, um ah in my when I did Ballarat Uni with Pete Aldred, I was in the room and Kev from Moondog was in the room with me and there was a few other like, you know, significant now significant brewers. I was the only one gainfully employed in a brewery.
00:49:36
Speaker
at the time and Pete asked who wants to own their own brewery one day and everyone bar me put their hand up. and um I think I'm the only one that owns their own brewery now. And he said, don't fuck up a perfectly good hobby by trying to make it a career. And um yeah, again, I must have missed that section, but I remember him saying it, but um yeah. Yeah. So look, I think if you knew everything, ah yeah, you wouldn't get the best out of out of yourself, I don't think, or out of the industry.
00:50:02
Speaker
yeah That's why I'll never be a professional golfer, Will. Best way to run a walk. Yes. And what about, yeah, someone coming into the industry now, um other than maybe don't do it. Is is there advice you'd give them or just just go with it? i Do it. Yeah, look, I mean, luckily enough, we've got two brewers in here and and Tom Champion messaged me a few weeks ago and said that he had ah a lady coming down and um She wanted to get into the brewing game and and she'd done a little bit with Felons and and done a little bit in Hospo. And you know we've got her in the brewery for two days a week and you know the chances are we probably don't need that as much at the moment. But the opportunity to give someone the experience, like because again, it's still so hard to get experience in the game and and it doesn't matter how much you do IBD-wise or whatever the courses are unless you've got boots on the ground experience.
00:50:53
Speaker
And that's probably because of how tight we run. There's no redundancy in these breweries, you know. So, um you know, i I think that's probably been one of my proudest moments is to be able to give those kind of people an opportunity and and um and get them on the ground because knowing full well that, you know, this won't be the forever brewery, I wouldn't imagine. But if they decide to move somewhere else, then they can walk in and say, yep, I can do that.
00:51:14
Speaker
There you go. Listeners, if you want free work experience, Deep South Brewing, and Happy days. And what's the last one? we've got oh go this is this Here we go. This is 20 years in the game.
00:51:26
Speaker
ah Dave McGill, your one hope and dream for Australian craft beer. ah where Where are we going? What's going on here, Dave? I think we just need to keep doing what we're doing. I don't think the industry is that broken. you know Just keep swimming. Yeah, just keep swimming. you know i Just keep making good beers and keep learning and keep humble and and just keep...
00:51:45
Speaker
and just keep um the community I think I think the only way we're going get through this is the community that we had 20 years ago that everyone talks about the heyday I don't think that's any different you know like one of my brewers you know there's a group of them that you know they go for a walk every you know once a week and they catch up and and I think the people that we had 20 years ago, I look at that and that's what we did.
00:52:06
Speaker
um But now as business owners, we're all, and I've got two two kids and a wife and, you know, like, so for me, what the industry looks like is totally different to what it looks like for them. And I think, i think,
00:52:18
Speaker
that sometimes the people call on the shots in the industries at the moment are the ones that remember those days. But what I don't see is that underlying swell of the people that are brewing for them and doing that, that are that are still doing those things. And there's still that level of community amongst them. So I think that will be the key, I think, um as a collective um to move forward. I think it's just a matter of making sure that everyone aligns with each other and um and then just keeps on moving.
00:52:41
Speaker
Do you feel like there's a bit of a passing of the torch kind of thing or like ah the next generation of of brewery owners and brewery builders coming through? Yeah, I think so. Yeah, absolutely. I think I even said to my wife the other day that I was probably in the twilight of my career and she laughed she laughed at me.
00:52:56
Speaker
and And I meant that in a metaphorical way. Like I think that my for the what i get out of um what I get out of beer now is seeing other people and their passion and being able to facilitate beer.
00:53:08
Speaker
their recipe development ideas and what they want to do and things like that and that's probably where I get the the biggest satisfaction out of it nowadays um you know like um you know 20 years of being on the tools and sticking your hand in caustic and getting it sprayed all over yourself and things is where's a little bit thinner after for a while but um but that all came um because we we were part of part of something that hasn't gone away but I think just the external noise that we see nowadays um probably mutes that a little bit but I think having seen that with my brewers it's it's definitely still there i think that's the key well um my only hope and dream can i make mcgilliverse a thing i'm gonna let's do that yeah dave thank you so much this has been fantastic yeah it's been an absolute pleasure no thanks so much for hosting us as well and for the beers you know for all the work that you guys do as well i know that um you know that you guys give up a lot of time to do this and i've i've seen firsthand how much it takes to set up this stuff and
00:54:02
Speaker
And you guys are in imperative in in the future of what we do. So, yeah. Well, Will is. I just do the ad reads. Just so listeners know, this was my first time setting this whole system up.
00:54:13
Speaker
You've done a good job. Hopefully, it'll take half the amount of time next time. I kept him on the session hour before he got it set up. So, we're good now. Great. Thanks so much for joining us. Cheers, Dave. Thanks very much. Thank you.
00:54:28
Speaker
The Crafty Pine podcast is produced and edited by Matt Hoffman. You can get all your beer-related news and reviews on the Crafty Pine website at craftypine.com and can stay up to date on future podcast episodes via our socials.
00:54:42
Speaker
We wouldn't be able to produce the podcast or the website, events or festivals we without the support of the beer industry, whether that's suppliers, bars, breweries or bottle shops. If you'd like to support the show or partner with The Crafty Pine in other ways, please reach out to Craig via the details in the show notes.
00:54:58
Speaker
And if you're a beer lover who'd like to support what we do, you can join our exclusive club for beer lovers, The Crafty Cabal. Visit craftygabal.com for more. And until next time, drink good beer.