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S4-170: Preventing Problems Before They Start with Proper RFP's! Part 1
1 Playsin 5 hours
The guys welcome Billy Moore of Executive Property Manintenance, and Mike Santolucito of Outdoor Pride to talk about the problems with incomplete or non-existent RFP's, and what you should always make sure is spelled out clearly in them!
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Episode 170
00:00:40
The SnowJobs Podcast
Here we go, Snow Jobs Nation. We are back again bringing you episode 170 of the Snow Jobs Podcast main show powered by Top Gun Backblades. You know who I am. you know who's with me.
00:00:57
The SnowJobs Podcast
Steve and Jeremy back for the 170th Monday in a row. What is up, Jay? How we doing?
00:01:03
RICK JAMES
Hey Steven, not a lot. How about you? Just a Sunday night.
00:01:06
The SnowJobs Podcast
Well... Yeah, you got your tanning lamp on. I see you're extremely bright. Holy crap.
00:01:12
RICK JAMES
Yeah, yeah. The sun is shining. It's not very warm, but sun is shining still.
00:01:15
The SnowJobs Podcast
It's not dark there yet.
00:01:18
RICK JAMES
Nah, it'll be dark another two hours, hour and a half.
00:01:21
The SnowJobs Podcast
Wow. It was dark an hour ago here. oh we're We're in our comfort zone again. Sunday night recording.
00:01:28
RICK JAMES
Hell yeah. yeah
00:01:29
The SnowJobs Podcast
ah
00:01:29
RICK JAMES
That's what we do best.
Weather and Light-hearted Banter
00:01:31
The SnowJobs Podcast
Happy Mother's Day to all the mothers out there. a
00:01:34
RICK JAMES
tia
00:01:35
The SnowJobs Podcast
It was a good good day for them. That's good. What did you do today? Anything good?
00:01:42
RICK JAMES
Nope.
00:01:43
The SnowJobs Podcast
Nope.
00:01:43
RICK JAMES
Nope.
00:01:43
The SnowJobs Podcast
All right. How was your week?
00:01:45
RICK JAMES
Nope. ah I was busy. was spraying God's juice.
00:01:50
The SnowJobs Podcast
There it is.
00:01:50
RICK JAMES
So I've been busy doing that.
00:01:52
The SnowJobs Podcast
God's juice season, full effect.
00:01:54
RICK JAMES
Full, strong. Yep. Just spraying, unloading rail cars. I got another five download load tomorrow. So yeah, we're busy.
00:02:03
The SnowJobs Podcast
You got your finally got your rail cars?
00:02:05
RICK JAMES
Yeah, got one seven last week. Then we got another five on Friday. So yeah, we're pumping through it.
00:02:13
The SnowJobs Podcast
Doing it. Getting it done.
00:02:16
RICK JAMES
Hell yeah, got to keep these roads, interstates dust free.
00:02:20
The SnowJobs Podcast
It's got to look like a tornado going through there right now with all the dust.
Common Issues in RFPs for Snow Contracts
00:02:25
RICK JAMES
Yeah, can probably do the airport tomorrow.
00:02:26
The SnowJobs Podcast
It's like Baghdad.
00:02:28
RICK JAMES
The plane's coming out, getting a little dusty too. So I'll grab a runway.
00:02:31
The SnowJobs Podcast
it's like it's like the middle east with dust storms you can't even see fargo it's just covered in a giant cloud
00:02:38
RICK JAMES
Except for where I go. Except for where I go.
00:02:40
The SnowJobs Podcast
except for that two-lane stretch behind jeremy's truck oh you're funny that is so funny but oh man that's good yeah it's uh it's been an interesting week i worked
00:02:45
RICK JAMES
Hell yeah. 18 feet wide.
00:02:52
RICK JAMES
How about you? What are you been up to?
00:02:55
The SnowJobs Podcast
I worked a lot this week, a lot going on. And that kind of led to the episode idea for tonight. I had a couple very interesting phone calls this week. And from both sides of the aisle, I had i had calls from contractors, you know which normally happens. And I also had a couple calls from property managers. And it's funny.
00:03:16
The SnowJobs Podcast
None of the contractors know these property managers. None of the property managers know those contractors. They're in different areas, different states. They were all complaining about the same shit from different sides of the aisle.
00:03:28
The SnowJobs Podcast
And I was like, did it all came down.
00:03:28
RICK JAMES
Huh.
00:03:30
The SnowJobs Podcast
Everything they were both complaining about, both sides are complaining about, all came down to the RFP and what was lacking in some of these ah RFPs. for some of these HOAs and properties they were talking about.
00:03:43
The SnowJobs Podcast
It was just a ah failure of communication on both sides. The contractors failed to mention what they needed the ah RFP to be as far as clearly spelling out the level of service and areas of responsibility, stuff
High Turnover of Property Managers
00:03:57
The SnowJobs Podcast
like that. And the, uh,
00:03:59
The SnowJobs Podcast
the the The property managers, i think I think one of the major problems, at least on the smaller scale, local and regional property managers, is the amount of turnover every year, it's almost like none of these. We have one site. We have ah we work for a property manager company. We've had three different reps for that site in three years.
00:04:20
The SnowJobs Podcast
So you can't possibly you can't possibly know a property inside and out, know what the RFP says, know whose responsibility is what, if you're only basically staying there for one season and then you're gone and being replaced by somebody else.
00:04:21
RICK JAMES
Mm-hmm.
00:04:34
The SnowJobs Podcast
By the time somebody's getting comfortable, They're or learning they're out of there. And I think that has a lot to do with it. But it just seemed like everything these people were were complaining about and asking questions about it was it was really came down to the same shit. It was just what was and wasn't explicitly spelled out in the ah RFP.
00:04:53
The SnowJobs Podcast
So I figured, you know, we should do we should get a couple guys that are very savvy in these areas as far as the ah RFPs and talking to management companies and customers telling them what their needs are, what needs to be clearly spelled out.
Improving RFPs with Expert Insights
00:05:08
The SnowJobs Podcast
You know where problem areas are going to be and maybe we can help some people because it seems like at least in my area a lot of a lot of property managers are reaching out right now they had disastrous picks last year for some of their properties and they're feeling the heat so they're trying to Learn as quick as possible what they didn't know and try and get quality contractors on these sites before they lose these properties to somebody else and On the other side of the coin, there are contractors out there. There were a lot of failures last year, and not just my ah in my area for sure, but we're hearing in a lot of other areas. So hopefully we can help those guys too because some of them seem to have taken jobs that they either were way underbid
00:05:54
The SnowJobs Podcast
um didn't understand the scope of work, didn't understand the level of service that the RFP clearly stated, and they didn't perform. So hopefully we can help both sides by just having a conversation about it. So we're going to kick around what things need to be in the ah RFP for both sides. And like I said, to help us do that,
00:06:13
The SnowJobs Podcast
You know, we got two guys that are very, very good at this kind of stuff. We got Mike Sanalicito of ODP Outdoor Pride. He's in the house. And Billy Moore of Executive is back. It's been a while. And, you know, those of you have listened to Billy Moore episodes, you know, Billy does not pull punches. He will tell you exactly what is on his mind at all times. And, you know, you can take it, leave it, like it or not. You know, it doesn't matter, which is why we love him.
00:06:39
The SnowJobs Podcast
So, yeah. What does that say? I'm going to disable the chat box. and this But that's what we're doing tonight. But as always, before we get to the boys and start kicking this ball around, we're going to hear from Team
Announcements and Listener Engagement
00:06:55
The SnowJobs Podcast
Top Gun. We're going come back and quick week in review.
00:07:28
The SnowJobs Podcast
All right, gang, we're back. So quick week review here. we got some announcements going out. As we said last week, Storm Chasing Season 2 is underway on YouTube. Episode 2 is out. That's Clint Tarr up in Canada.
00:07:41
The SnowJobs Podcast
So make sure if you haven't gone over to YouTube, to the Storm Chasing YouTube page, and watch that Episode 2 or even Episode 1, go check them out. uh sima 2026 this year is in schitts and addy all right that's running from june 23rd to the 26th uh so if you're going to that that's where it is and uh you know we'll see you there maybe not at the show but we'll see at the parties around it uh storm field day is earlier than it's been in years past this year storm field day is july 29th and 30th this year tickets are currently on sale all right so head over to storm's website and i'll get your tickets for storm field day july 29th and 30th s&s snow and ice solutions sixth annual snow show is going to be september 17th this year so put that down on the calendar
00:08:32
The SnowJobs Podcast
And then Patty Salmon's Northeast De-Icing Solutions De-Icing Day is going to be October 1st this year in Uxbridge, Massachusetts. So put that down on the calendar. Got a message from Jeremy Kirkham. He wants us to shout out that the Canadian Snow Fighters next Zoom meeting is going to be May 14th. So that will be what, Thursday?
00:08:54
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah, Thursday, May 14th at 7 o'clock. Shoot him a DM on Instagram if you want an invite to that. uh new snow jobs patch hats are in they are at snowjobsnationstore.com where you can get all your snow jobs nation merchandise so head over there and get those and then just keep hitting the ah like and subscribe on apple podcast and spotify for us and drop the reviews of the show and uh let us know what you like what you don't like so we can keep doing more of it that it anything else jay
00:09:26
RICK JAMES
don't think so. I think that's pretty much all the stuff I know that we that's going on.
00:09:30
The SnowJobs Podcast
All right, and let's hear from our partners, and then we'll be right back and get into this with the boys.
Guest Introductions and Winter Challenges
00:11:47
The SnowJobs Podcast
All right, gang, we are back. Let's welcome in Mike and Billy. Boys, been a while. Welcome back. How are doing?
00:11:54
RICK JAMES
guys
00:11:55
Billy
Hey, what up?
00:11:55
Mikey Santolucito
up, boys?
00:11:57
The SnowJobs Podcast
We're missing the real brains behind executive tonight. We're missing Mrs. Executive.
00:12:01
Billy
Yeah.
00:12:03
The SnowJobs Podcast
Billy's flying solo. Who's going to kick him under the table so you can't say that? You can't say that. ah
00:12:08
RICK JAMES
She would never do that.
00:12:09
The SnowJobs Podcast
No, she wouldn't, actually.
00:12:11
Billy
Older than I am.
00:12:12
The SnowJobs Podcast
ah ah
00:12:12
RICK JAMES
Yeah.
00:12:14
The SnowJobs Podcast
How you been, Bill?
00:12:16
Billy
Not too bad. Not too bad.
00:12:18
The SnowJobs Podcast
Good. Good winner.
00:12:19
Billy
Things are starting to move out for the spring and yeah, it was a long winter and, uh, I don't know if I mentioned it before, but we absorbed and another another company. So a buddy mine decided to retire.
00:12:29
The SnowJobs Podcast
Nice.
00:12:30
Billy
So as much as I didn't want to get into more lawn care, ah we did. Yes.
00:12:38
RICK JAMES
Nice.
00:12:38
Billy
But it brought a lot.
00:12:39
Mikey Santolucito
That's how it goes, dude. You get sucked right back in.
00:12:41
Billy
I know. But it brought a lot of opportunity for landscape design, build extras, enhancements. So yeah. who's oh, yeah, so it worked out pretty well.
00:12:53
Billy
it's just exhausting some of the details and learning new customers and their expectations. And luckily, the crew that normally did it, the crews, excuse me, are there on board with us.
00:13:05
Billy
So that worked out really well.
00:13:05
The SnowJobs Podcast
Nice. That helps.
00:13:07
Billy
So it's kind of turnkey. So You know, the only thing that but became a little sore spot was okay we're not we're used to seeing this truck but now it says executive on it, what is going on, even though it was explained to them, but you know how customers can be sometimes.
00:13:25
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yep.
00:13:25
Mikey Santolucito
We do.
00:13:25
The SnowJobs Podcast
No, I hear that. So this is this is your definition of downsizing?
00:13:32
The SnowJobs Podcast
Absorbing new companies?
00:13:32
RICK JAMES
so i was like Sounds like Matt from Clippers.
00:13:32
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah. last i swear like last fall was like yeah i'm a man i think i'm just gonna i'm gonna trim the fat a little bit i think i'm gonna downsize that now we're warming companies ah love it
00:13:43
Billy
Yeah. Other than that, that's all here. I mean, it's starting to smooth itself out. It's been a busy, rainy spring. Not not very conducive to getting shit done, but yeah.
00:13:55
The SnowJobs Podcast
gotcha cool and you're you had a good winner snow wise
00:14:00
Billy
it was ah It was a great winter to start, so I think, in my opinion, to start even keeling. ah what we have talked about many times in the past.
00:14:10
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yep.
00:14:11
Billy
That's an abusive winter that drains supply, drains energy, breaks down equipment. And it wasn't so much that we got like 12 to 20 inches all the time.
00:14:22
Billy
We had a lot of nuisance storms that back to back to back, guys were getting tired. And I think that was important to say, wow, maybe this is a recheck of... how good is our contractor at the cheap price or the customer or whatever, you know, what have you.
00:14:37
The SnowJobs Podcast
Absolutely. It thins the herd.
00:14:38
Billy
So I thought it was a great winner for that.
00:14:42
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah, no, it definitely is.
00:14:43
Billy
And I like the back winners like that. Then it can really separate men from boys and not just a fluke, you know,
00:14:47
The SnowJobs Podcast
Absolutely. And we always talk about that, right? We always say like, oh, we're getting this big storm. We're going separate the men from the boys. It's not necessarily the big storms that do that.
00:14:58
The SnowJobs Podcast
They definitely do do that.
00:14:58
RICK JAMES
Thank you.
00:15:00
The SnowJobs Podcast
It basically separates the guys that have equipment and the guys that are trying to do it with trucks. But when you're getting double the number of events, the nuisances, the half inch to two inches,
00:15:11
The SnowJobs Podcast
That is when you really see who's a real contractor for snow and who is just trying to bet on the low snow winter. Because if they're eating up there their money already by the end of December, they're cutting corners the rest of the year. They're not coming out when
Expansion of Brine Application and Training
00:15:27
The SnowJobs Podcast
they should. And you you definitely see at that point who's real in the game and who's not.
00:15:32
Billy
Absolutely. and And that's kind of what we saw, especially in January.
00:15:34
The SnowJobs Podcast
That's good.
00:15:36
Billy
i I don't know exactly what month or what week, but there was like 14 days and like 10 or 11 of them were either a de-icing event in the morning or in one in the afternoon, then a plow the next morning.
00:15:48
Billy
I mean, it was just rapid fire and it wasn't a lot of snow. I mean, we're talking half inch, half inch, two inch, half inch, half inch.
00:15:55
RICK JAMES
Mm-hmm.
00:15:55
Billy
that burned a lot of people out. And then obviously with material issue, um that was great in my opinion, especially with the brine, you know, and you see on a Monday, 100% of the normal guys that you see when you're site check, or whatever okay, there's such and such.
00:16:04
The SnowJobs Podcast
Oh, yeah.
00:16:11
Billy
Tuesday, half of those people are out. Wednesday, I think it was me and other guy in Clippers, you know, Matt, where's nobody else at?
00:16:17
The SnowJobs Podcast
Mm-hmm.
00:16:18
Billy
I mean, these properties weren't being serviced. They either ran out
00:16:21
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah, so that had to play right into your hands being Brian, right?
00:16:25
Billy
Oh, worked out beautiful.
00:16:28
The SnowJobs Podcast
I couldn't have wrote the script any better.
00:16:29
RICK JAMES
Hmm.
00:16:31
The SnowJobs Podcast
That's awesome. So was you and Matt then that we just kept putting those salt shortage things on everybody's feeds on Facebook and Instagram. It wasn't it was manufactured by the Detroit boys there.
00:16:39
Billy
Yeah.
00:16:43
Mikey Santolucito
Yeah,
00:16:43
RICK JAMES
Hmm.
00:16:43
The SnowJobs Podcast
Oh, man, that's great.
00:16:44
RICK JAMES
Hmm.
00:16:45
The SnowJobs Podcast
Oh, there's definitely a salt shortage. Ask Billy and Matt. Oh man. Well, that's good, man. I'm glad you had a great winner. That's awesome. and You know, you hit it right. I mean, you're that Brian that's going to, that's big.
00:16:58
The SnowJobs Podcast
And, and from what we've heard that salt shortage thing, it's not a one-off, it's going to be the new normal, you know?
00:17:03
Billy
It's not going away.
00:17:06
The SnowJobs Podcast
So ah yeah, I think Brian's going to be a,
00:17:08
Mikey Santolucito
it's basically just start stocking up now for next year.
00:17:11
The SnowJobs Podcast
yeah If you can. Yeah, I mean, the buildings are full right now. I know that. i mean, ironically, the buildings were full April 1st and price was back down to, you know, below normal even around me. But I guarantee it's going to happen again, because like I said, we had that guy ready to go before the legal department shut him down.
00:17:28
The SnowJobs Podcast
and uh he was he was going to tell everybody that it's the new normal the infrastructure for salt is broken you it's that shortage is not a one-off it's uh it's gonna happen so it's that's good man i'm glad you were in the right position to take advantage of that with the liquids good for you so are you expanding your liquids now
00:17:46
Billy
uh we expanded with patch actually when it started uh we invested lot more money in more sprayers and you know just again downsizing because you know and then just add more tests because and copax because for some reason i think things backwards right so patrick uh we need you bud send them send them and send them and we trained some more guys on it they
00:17:57
The SnowJobs Podcast
ah yes
00:18:01
The SnowJobs Podcast
Oh, that's great.
00:18:12
Billy
A couple couple of my guys, their brothers, one guy picked it up really good. The other guy still don't believe it. He thinks it's some kind of magic show. Like, but is gone it's quite comical. I'll do it, but I don't believe it, you know.
00:18:26
Billy
So it was still a training session with him, but great guys. But, yeah.
00:18:30
The SnowJobs Podcast
That's funny.
00:18:31
Billy
So yeah, it worked out and then we started using more of it and or for the icing even my own niece was she took a 110 sprayer out and was doing sidewalks. And she was kind of like, I rather use the bags because I'm getting the exercise.
00:18:40
Mikey Santolucito
Nice.
00:18:45
Billy
But then she sound found out how easy it was after all these back back storms. She's like, I really like spraying them a lot easier.
00:18:52
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah. Yeah, when you're doing it every day, the bags get old real quick.
00:18:57
Billy
Yeah.
00:18:58
The SnowJobs Podcast
That's great. Good for you. Yeah, I would have loved to have been on that
Investing in Equipment for Snow Removal
00:19:01
The SnowJobs Podcast
phone call. hey Pat, we're downsizing. Send me 10 more Oh, shit. Well, but
00:19:05
RICK JAMES
Sure.
00:19:07
The SnowJobs Podcast
oh shit that's good, brother. I'm glad you guys did good this year. You needed it. I know you didn't have a great winner the year before, so...
00:19:15
Billy
I've had hardly any great winners. I mean, in the last five or six years. And when I say that, like, yes, we have a lot of all-inclusive contracts that keep us going, but we needed something.
00:19:27
Billy
And I think Matt can attest to this. And we needed something that would say, woods when our iron starts rolling down the street, that's the difference.
00:19:37
Billy
You know what i mean? When we're putting, we can handle your job
00:19:39
The SnowJobs Podcast
yeah.
00:19:42
Billy
to the way it should be done, you know and you know, and I heard a lot of other people, other contractors in my, you know, that are good contractors that they picked up a lot of things too, from failures of, you know, my guy didn't show up because his truck broke down.
00:19:55
Billy
Well, doesn't he have a spare? No, there's no spare. Like they don't invest into their own infrastructure and equipment. So there is no spare. There is no spare salt or spare, you know, whatever, you know, we have spares of everything, which you never know, you know,
00:20:11
The SnowJobs Podcast
you know And that's a real thing, like speaking to not necessarily the ah RFP, but the interview process for for property managers or or customers. That's a question you should be asking of of any contractor you're going to hire.
00:20:24
Billy
Yeah.
00:20:25
The SnowJobs Podcast
All right, what are you going to use on my property? Okay, great. Now, worst day scenario, that goes down.
00:20:31
Mikey Santolucito
What's your backup plan?
00:20:32
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah, what do you got? What's your backup? You know, how much equipment do you have in 10, 15 minutes from my from my site that you can backfill and get it and still get me done?
00:20:43
The SnowJobs Podcast
You know, that's that's questions that should be asked. And it seems like I think it's ah a product or a byproduct of having a lot of low winters in a row in a lot of areas. People aren't asking. I bet they're asking now.
00:20:55
RICK JAMES
Mm-hmm.
00:20:56
Billy
Yeah.
00:20:57
Mikey Santolucito
It should be.
00:20:59
The SnowJobs Podcast
Well, I mean, to speak like the first question we were going to talk about was, you know, are you guys seeing earlier than normal calls from customers or property managers this year looking for, you know, renewals because you did it right or looking to make a change on their properties for contractors that totally screwed the pooch? But you guys both said not really, right?
00:21:19
Mikey Santolucito
I just think it's too early. In my market, it's too early.
Preparing Property Managers Early for Snow Season
00:21:22
Mikey Santolucito
they're just They're still licking their wounds from the financial shitstorm that was this past winter for them to start thinking about next year.
00:21:30
Mikey Santolucito
And we're trying to get them to that point. right We're trying to get them to start thinking about what we need to change because we just came off five really shitty winters where we had 30 inches or below.
00:21:39
The SnowJobs Podcast
Well, that is true. You had a lot of deviation.
00:21:41
Mikey Santolucito
Yeah, like it it's never going to be like this all the time.
00:21:42
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:21:45
Mikey Santolucito
We were due for a very big winter. So now we need to pivot and say, all right, what happened to your budget?
00:21:48
The SnowJobs Podcast
Hmm.
00:21:53
Mikey Santolucito
Where can we help you with that? And what can we do to lock you into something that is more safe and more affordable moving forward? So you don't have to sit there chewing your fingernails down to the bone wondering if, you know, after 60 inches, and we're going to get another 20, another inch winter, god forbid.
00:22:13
The SnowJobs Podcast
And Bill, you said no as well to no early calls, but you also said that you had calls in January. So your calls were even earlier than most.
00:22:20
Billy
Yeah, agree. Yeah, um there was a lot of lot of, but I can't remember. I think it was after Thanksgiving. There was some little bit of abuse. And then second week of January phones ringing off the hook failures are already. I mean, there are I mean, usually that's January, February material.
00:22:40
Billy
Ray, way earlier, I mean, I was talking to Donovan, I gotta go got another one calling. He said you lucky bastard. Like what is going on? You know, I mean, it was just like shooting. foot for that tomorrow Like said, I think that now they're like, oh, shit, we have to recover.
00:22:56
Billy
But then, you know, I'd like to get them done earlier because that's, that's the other issue too, that should be a discussion topic is how can we train these people to start thinking snow in May, June, not October, November, not even.
00:23:10
Billy
so
00:23:10
The SnowJobs Podcast
100%.
00:23:10
The SnowJobs Podcast
100%. Mm-hmm.
00:23:11
Billy
You're not buying equipment. I mean, maybe you are, you aren't, I'm not buying skid loaders in November to procure a site unless it's a five-year deal.
00:23:19
The SnowJobs Podcast
um saying
00:23:20
Billy
I'm not making those kinds of investments, but if you care,
00:23:23
RICK JAMES
Mm-hmm.
00:23:24
Mikey Santolucito
There's only one way that that works. If you just came off a great winter with them, the service was impeccable. They're happy with the communication. They're happy with the quality. They're happy with the team. You're coming off a three-year deal, a two-year deal, a one-year deal, whatever it is.
00:23:38
Mikey Santolucito
If they're happy now and all you're doing is adding a small percentage for next year just to account for whatever inflation you've got, that is the best time to re-sign them because then it's off your books and they may not be able to, right? They have to go through their budget process. They have to go back to their team and, you know, get that finalized for the next year. But at least if they have the availability to do it, that's one less thing for them to worry about. And then you have the entire summer to start gearing up for that site next year.
00:24:05
Billy
Absolutely. And that's ah with our 12 month contracts with green season and even the ones that we still where it's separate.
00:24:06
RICK JAMES
Yeah. Yep. yep
00:24:13
Billy
um We've said, Hey, look, why don't we lock
Inadequacies in RFPs
00:24:16
Billy
in now? And then this can be both off both of our plates. I'm not bothering you to say, Hey, where's my E-SIG and we're ready to roll and roll, you know, but it's these people that wait till, especially bigger sites.
00:24:28
Billy
You know, I had a couple of calls, like I said, not much because I think people are waiting. I mean, these are sites that need four or five loaders. That's planning. Planning doesn't happen at the 11th hour.
00:24:38
The SnowJobs Podcast
Mm-hmm.
00:24:40
Billy
Planning happens now. You want success? You got to now, you know.
00:24:47
Mikey Santolucito
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:24:47
Billy
wouldn't do it for anything less than a three-year because if we're going to invest in in equipment, you got invest in us.
00:24:47
RICK JAMES
Mm-hmm.
00:24:54
The SnowJobs Podcast
100%. Absolute 100%. Anything you've got to keep multiple machines dedicated to a site or even one machine dedicated to a site. I'm not doing it for a one-year deal. if you need If I have to have that machine and it's only doing your work, that machine is going to be paid for over three years.
00:25:12
The SnowJobs Podcast
Like I'm going to get three years of payments out of that.
00:25:12
Billy
add
00:25:12
Mikey Santolucito
heer
00:25:15
The SnowJobs Podcast
That is non-negotiable. So I just don't, an in unless the only thing I could see is if you're an excavation company or somebody that's using that fucking machine for other things and snow is a small part of it, you're basically just keeping that machine busy.
00:25:28
Mikey Santolucito
Even still, you got treat that machine like it's separate.
00:25:29
The SnowJobs Podcast
Right. I agree, but i at least then you have money coming for it, you know, seven months out of the year from somewhere else that if you want to roll the dice on a one-year, I would give that to you.
00:25:43
The SnowJobs Podcast
yeah I still don't think it's the best way to do it. I think you're right, Mike. you got to treat it like it's independent, but... At the same time, that's the only acceptable thing where I could say, hey, you want to roll the dice, dude? It's your money. You do that. But if you're if you're just a snow guy and you're dedicating a machine to any site, that has to be, you have to get three years worth of payments on that machine minimum from that site if you're dedicating it.
00:26:08
The SnowJobs Podcast
I just think that's a recipe for disaster if you're you're taking one year and you're going to dedicate a machine completely to that. Like even Jeremy, I mean, Jay, you guys don't... Is there any site you're dedicating other than the one site?
00:26:20
The SnowJobs Podcast
not Everything else is on route, right?
00:26:21
RICK JAMES
No. Everything else yeah everything we have is on route. So yeah, we don't have anything dedicated besides that one site. So. so
00:26:29
The SnowJobs Podcast
So that's a little bit different ballgame, but anything that's got to be dedicated, that's got to be a multi-year deal to recoup some of that cost of that machine.
00:26:37
RICK JAMES
Mm hmm.
00:26:38
The SnowJobs Podcast
I don't know. Maybe I'm crazy.
00:26:41
Mikey Santolucito
Well, we do snow.
00:26:41
The SnowJobs Podcast
But so...
00:26:42
Mikey Santolucito
We're all crazy.
00:26:43
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah. So let me let let's transition to the RFPs, though. you guys ah You guys all get RFPs. You've all seen them. When you're getting these RFPs in years past, this year, whenever, how many of the RFPs are actually even close to what we would call adequate for our purposes that spell everything out, responsibilities, level of service, scope of work, everything is is where it should be?
00:27:11
The SnowJobs Podcast
crickets so that's what most of them what you're seeing are airtight
00:27:12
Mikey Santolucito
most most
00:27:19
Mikey Santolucito
so in my market in life science they are spelled out in pretty good detail because they can't afford just like industrial right they can't afford failures that cost them revenue so they go through these you know these rfp chats where they figure out what's coming into the building what's going out the timelines for that what the uh
00:27:21
Billy
Thank you.
00:27:42
Mikey Santolucito
what the staffing is going to like for whatever they're working on inside and they build a plan for that essentially to tell us like hey we need you here 24 7 you know you know 12 hours on 12 hours off that there's a ah second shift maybe and then we build based off that but anything else multi-use retail it it's it's kind of crap shoot for those guys that they haven't changed their stuff in a few years but
00:27:45
The SnowJobs Podcast
That's yeah.
00:28:02
The SnowJobs Podcast
that yeah
00:28:06
Mikey Santolucito
Just speaking on what I do most in the life science sector.
00:28:09
The SnowJobs Podcast
so the unicorn sites yeah the unicorn sites have their shit together which you would expect they're paying properly for snow they they they've done their homework they know what's supposed to be done and then everything else is you know 50 50 at best all right what about you billy what are your rfps that you see in your area are you are they put together well or are you severely lacking
00:28:11
Mikey Santolucito
Yeah.
00:28:17
Mikey Santolucito
Yeah.
00:28:24
Mikey Santolucito
yeah
00:28:29
Billy
get uh well not really they're severely lacking but a lot of the stuff that I get are through my own contractual like I draw it up because they're more comfortable that way because many and I used to do a lot of of especially with HOAs and condos I used do a lot of them they are so piss poor written for either green season and snow either it's too vague or it's
00:28:43
The SnowJobs Podcast
Okay. Okay, good.
00:28:51
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yep.
00:28:54
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yes.
00:28:59
Billy
Just crap.
Challenges with HOA and Condo RFPs
00:29:01
Billy
I mean, when I say, I can't, I wish I had one in front of me from the one I seen last year.
00:29:01
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yes.
00:29:05
Billy
I'm like, what is, I don't even, might even not even pertain to, it might've been drain cleaning removal or something.
00:29:08
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yes. When it starts snowing, plow snow.
00:29:12
Billy
That was it.
00:29:12
The SnowJobs Podcast
and the End.
00:29:12
Mikey Santolucito
Mm-hmm.
00:29:13
The SnowJobs Podcast
end. Good.
00:29:14
Billy
The end. you know, it even down to stupid stuff, misspellings or dates or trigger amounts or, you know, just where you could stage it. I mean, anything and everything.
00:29:27
Billy
Like I said, I don't see a lot of RFPs as much as I used to because I basically say, hey, this is, i draw out. Me personally, I map them out.
00:29:35
The SnowJobs Podcast
good
00:29:37
Billy
I scope it.
00:29:37
The SnowJobs Podcast
I love that. i love If they give you that option, I absolutely love that. But some of these...
00:29:41
Billy
And I rarely have, and lately,
00:29:43
The SnowJobs Podcast
Some of these PMs, man, they give you these things that they think, hey, here's ah here's the ah RFP. We sent it over. Take a look at it and you know come up with a proposal. I can't propose anything off of this.
00:29:55
The SnowJobs Podcast
like I got nothing but red ink on this two and a half pages of nothing. that like it One line cancels out the third line down. you know i mean, half the shit is am but ambiguous, and the other half is contradictory.
00:30:10
The SnowJobs Podcast
It's like, what what what am i looking at here? Like, I have to sit down with them and ask 20 questions before I can even begin to put together any kind of, what are you even looking for for this site?
00:30:21
The SnowJobs Podcast
Some of it's really bad.
00:30:23
Billy
Oh, I would agree. And that's kind of where, again, i you know as i older I get, I don't play well in the sandbox with some of the shit that comes my way. Look, you want us for snow, let me map it out.
00:30:34
Billy
mean like Even some of their site maps are terrible.
00:30:36
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yes. Yes.
00:30:38
Billy
you know I have one that I had to help rewrite. And like I said, I don't do a lot of HOAs and subdivisions anymore, but I do have them. And long story short, they ended up they're actually a good customer now.
00:30:50
Billy
I had to redraw their site map because whatever they had from a developer or whatever is wrong. Sidewalk placement, wrong. How to do the job, wrong. Let me help you.
00:31:01
Billy
We'll put it on my details, my payment plan. Sign this and we'll take care of it.
00:31:07
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah, all your worries are gone.
00:31:08
Billy
No issue. Yeah. But like even like I said, even the site maps are terrible. We're going to work with a I got referred to a couple class eight buildings.
00:31:19
Billy
actually I'll tell you a quick story. I sit on the board of the MGI and I went into a board meeting in February. That's a Michigan Green Industry Association. I pull in. Who plowed this? Stevie Wonder? I mean, there was three feet of snow on every sidewalk. I swear to God, this is a class A beautiful building.
00:31:37
Billy
The whole property was terrible. They referred me. I started looking at, okay, look, you know, they sent me over. Hey, where yeah we got a new vendor. I'm reading their scope. There was 25 sites i want they wanted me to bid on. I bid on zero.
00:31:52
Billy
They refused to pick up the phone and talk to me. they Their scope was so generic and vague, and it it must go out to the cement guy, the plumber, the building maintenance.
00:32:01
The SnowJobs Podcast
Sure. Yeah.
00:32:03
Billy
Nothing about how could this even happen? And I'm not talking at one mistake, like, hey, your guy you know put a little snow on the sidewalk. Every sidewalk was covered with three feet of snow.
00:32:13
Billy
Every handicap plowed in.
00:32:17
Billy
And the they're all about price. So I said, look, if you don't want to listen to me and hear me out, then this is this is not going to go any further. I'm not going to play that game. So. Exactly.
00:32:27
The SnowJobs Podcast
Because if they're not answering the phone in July for an ah RFP question, what's going to happen when you need a question in the winter answered?
00:32:33
Billy
exactly
00:32:34
The SnowJobs Podcast
When you need them to respond then. we we Listen, we had that problem this year with with an HOA that it was, again, third year in a row we had three different reps.
00:32:47
The SnowJobs Podcast
And we called the the rep to get the robocall put on put out for everybody to start moving their vehicles in the one section. Can't get a hold of them. Called a second number.
00:32:59
The SnowJobs Podcast
Can't get a hold of them. We tried for an hour and a half.
Importance of Communicating Snow Plans
00:33:04
The SnowJobs Podcast
Nobody's answering the phone. Finally, I said, boys, Just do what we do. Get up there. We charge them to have the guys shovel around the 40 cars that were still in driveways because we could not get a robocall put out.
00:33:17
The SnowJobs Podcast
And when I finally talked to the rep, I said, listen, just so you know, the next invoice is going to have you know X number of dollars on it for you know the the handwork.
00:33:20
Billy
Thank
00:33:28
The SnowJobs Podcast
We had to send you know seven guys up there with shovels, shovel out 40 cars because we couldn't get a hold of you too to get a robo put out. Oh, yeah, well, I really didn't know it was going to snow. I'm like, sent you the weather report.
00:33:40
The SnowJobs Podcast
Sent you the weather report. ah Well, yeah, but it was also New Year's Eve, you know, blah, blah. I'm like, it still snows on New Year's Eve.
00:33:46
Mikey Santolucito
Don't care.
00:33:47
The SnowJobs Podcast
You still have, as I put it this way, I know you're new to snow. Your phone needs to be on and answered from the time the contract goes active to the time it ends.
00:33:59
The SnowJobs Podcast
November 1st to April 15th. You're answering the phone 24 hours a day when this number calls. That's how it's got to be. Oh, oh, okay. I didn't know that. You know, thought, yeah, I didn't think about the robocall thing.
00:34:13
The SnowJobs Podcast
Well, that was a pretty pricey mistake.
00:34:15
Billy
Thank you.
00:34:16
The SnowJobs Podcast
But, you know, that that that happens. You got to educate the the property managers as much as you do the ah the customers. it's It's crazy. Things that you just take for granted that they should know, they don't know.
00:34:31
The SnowJobs Podcast
The simplest stuff. You there's next to no communication usually between the the board that hires you and the residents in the complex. Like when we write out a whole snow plan that, hey, here's how we're going to attack it from the time from 24 hours before the snow starts. We're sending you weather reports and ah you can forward them to your mass email for your all your residents to have. We prefer that, actually, so everybody knows what's coming.
00:34:58
The SnowJobs Podcast
um This is how snow will be handled in this complex, A through Z. Send that out to the residents. Email it to them. You wouldn't believe how many residents in these complexes have no fucking idea what your marching orders are and how you're gonna what your plan is for getting this stuff done.
00:35:15
The SnowJobs Podcast
And they're coming out saying, well why are you doing why don't you ever come up this way? Why do you always come from the right instead of the left? That's the way the snow operations plan is.
00:35:26
The SnowJobs Podcast
Oh, I don't.
00:35:27
Mikey Santolucito
Oh, who made that?
00:35:28
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah. Who made that?
00:35:29
RICK JAMES
Huh.
00:35:29
The SnowJobs Podcast
Your board approved that. So you got to talk to, you know, the board, headed head to a board meeting. But I said to the board, you guys can make things a lot easier by getting every resident the snow operations plan.
00:35:41
The SnowJobs Podcast
So they know exactly what steps are being taken at what times, why, you know, they want it. There's one complex that we are not permitted to touch We're not permitted to touch the driveways or the condo walkways, the individual condo walkways, until the snow has ceased.
00:35:58
The SnowJobs Podcast
till the storm is over if it's a bigger storm we do it anyway we're not going to let ah you know eight inches ten inches twelve inches of snow build up on the on the driveways and the walks because we know people you know emergencies happen people got to get out we'll do it anyway but by the letter of that contract we're not supposed to touch them until the snow has ceased there are people that are like flagging you down as you're doing the roadway saying hey i got four inches on my driveway when are you when are you gonna get that when the snow's over
00:36:08
Mikey Santolucito
Right.
00:36:27
The SnowJobs Podcast
Oh, why talk to your board? Like, this is what they wanted. You know, like we can do it every inch. You just don't have the money for that. You know, talk to the board, head to a board meeting.
00:36:38
The SnowJobs Podcast
But crazy. It's crazy how, how, how these things, they escalate when they don't have to, if everybody's just on the same page and they talk to each other, the, the ah RFP is clear. The property managers know their job. The board communicates.
00:36:52
The SnowJobs Podcast
It's just, it's crazy. I mean, what What do you think, what are the most glaring things that you guys see that are not mentioned or not covered in the RFPs that you're like, what the heck? Like, how the hell did you not put this in there?
Critical Omissions in RFPs
00:37:09
Mikey Santolucito
Pile placement and what's warranted for removal.
00:37:12
The SnowJobs Podcast
That is a big one. That is definitely a big one.
00:37:14
Billy
Drifting.
00:37:14
Mikey Santolucito
Like, ah un-fucking-believable how these people have not thought about this more than once. There's there's definitely more than one 8-inch storm that comes through these places that they've had to deal with piles.
00:37:25
Mikey Santolucito
like
00:37:25
The SnowJobs Podcast
Mm-hmm.
00:37:28
The SnowJobs Podcast
i got a good one i have no trigger amount specified they just handed here's this here's this 56 unit complex um yeah plow it okay when am i starting you know like what what what level of service is here yeah no trigger anywhere in the ah rfp of what kind of level of service they want it just says literally clear the snow oh okay
00:37:32
RICK JAMES
Yeah.
00:37:35
RICK JAMES
hu
00:37:53
The SnowJobs Podcast
that That could be $110,000 or that could be $600,000. Like, what are we talking about here? but Yeah, how do you not have the trigger of what you want? ever How many inches per pass, you know?
00:38:06
The SnowJobs Podcast
Sure.
00:38:08
RICK JAMES
hmm
00:38:09
Mikey Santolucito
To add to that though, salting triggers,
00:38:13
The SnowJobs Podcast
Sure.
00:38:14
Mikey Santolucito
whether that's you know after the storm for pile runoff, whether that's during the storm to maintain the brine layer so that there's no ice to pavement contact. you know When you get a variable site that pays per treatment and it's a 30 plus hour storm and they get like four treatments, six treatments, whatever for sidewalks for a pavement. They're like, Oh my God, what ah did you guys need to treat this much? Like we had, you know, we had 22 inches snow. Why'd you treat what we treated because we needed to protect protect that brine layer so that it wouldn't stick to the asphalt as much we get a cleaner scrape.
00:38:50
Mikey Santolucito
Oh, I don't know. I mean, you guys could have just kept scraping and then treated at the end, right? No, this is how it works. Like it come out with us during a storm. We'll show you why this works better and why it gives you a safer result.
00:39:01
The SnowJobs Podcast
yeah
00:39:03
Mikey Santolucito
And they still fight you on it, or at least they're fighting me on it. But like, it we need to be able to have that autonomy to do what we need to do in the field to make sure that your site is safe, to make sure that our guys are making the best decision for your site without having to worry about you gripe about your invoice when you when you get it.
00:39:19
Mikey Santolucito
Well,
00:39:21
The SnowJobs Podcast
that's why it should just be covered it should just be a contract all-inclusive seasonal 100
00:39:24
Mikey Santolucito
that's why we all like seasonals or tiered seasonals.
00:39:26
The SnowJobs Podcast
hundred percent
00:39:27
Mikey Santolucito
Like it gives us...
00:39:28
The SnowJobs Podcast
That eliminates cutting corners, honestly.
00:39:30
Mikey Santolucito
Right.
00:39:30
The SnowJobs Podcast
100%.
00:39:31
Mikey Santolucito
And we get to do our job the way that we're supposed to do it. We have no there's no gray area. There's no, oh, if they see this bill, they're going to flip out. It's like, no, we're we're just going to do what we know how to do to make it safe. That's it.
00:39:42
The SnowJobs Podcast
um percent
00:39:43
Billy
I agree.
00:39:45
RICK JAMES
Yeah.
00:39:45
Billy
We had a couple, actually one particular client when we started getting him trained into the brine a little bit more, fought me on every freaking invoice.
00:39:56
Billy
You're not salting because I don't see it. I've explained to you, sir. Where's the snow, by the way? Where's the ice? Your truck well is clear. That's always usually the biggest complaint for this customer is the truck well, the truck well, the truck well.
00:40:10
The SnowJobs Podcast
Thank you.
00:40:11
Billy
We don't see rock salt, why should we pay for it? But is it clear and safe? Yes, I told you this is what we're doing. This is what you're seeing. Well, I see you guys on camera on this truck and it's it's it's it's putting ice down.
00:40:26
Billy
That's not exactly what's happening.
00:40:27
RICK JAMES
Yeah.
00:40:29
Billy
This went on for a few weeks. I said, look, dude, I can't do this any longer. like you This is what you owe. And but he finally paid it and finally understood after like a long breakdown, a show and tell. I mean, it was like, I was like Mr. Rogers out there with a, you know, a cardigan. I mean, like, look, guy, this is the icer.
00:40:47
Billy
just As long as the result is the result, what fucking difference does it make?
00:40:52
Mikey Santolucito
Right.
00:40:53
The SnowJobs Podcast
It's amazing how many people think you're just putting water down, creating ice.
00:40:53
Billy
come
00:40:56
Billy
Yeah.
00:40:58
The SnowJobs Podcast
Tell them you'll spray the windows with it just so you can see the difference.
00:41:00
Billy
Yeah.
00:41:00
Mikey Santolucito
Right.
00:41:03
RICK JAMES
Yeah, i do that idea.
00:41:04
The SnowJobs Podcast
ah Oh, shit.
00:41:06
RICK JAMES
a
00:41:07
The SnowJobs Podcast
The one thing I will throw out there while we're on the topic for for the HOA guys, this is critically important if you're thinking about taking an HOA.
Enforceable Vehicle Movement Plans
00:41:16
The SnowJobs Podcast
In the RFP or in the initial meeting, you have to ask this question if it's not spelled out clearly in the RFP.
00:41:24
The SnowJobs Podcast
Do they have a snow operations plan in place for vehicle movement? And if so, whose responsibility is it?
00:41:29
Billy
I was
00:41:32
The SnowJobs Podcast
And what is the timeframe they have to do it? And is it enforceable? And does the enforceable action have teeth? Those are big questions because if they have a snow operations plan where it says robocall will be put out when the contractor is ready for cars to vacate driveways or vacate parking areas to move from one point to another, ah how long do they have to move cars?
00:41:52
Mikey Santolucito
Mm-hmm.
00:41:55
The SnowJobs Podcast
I have two examples in my head. One place has no time frame, no enforceable action. ah They threaten them with fines, but the fines never get sent and they never get paid, all that crap. And I have another one that actually has a snow operations leader.
00:42:13
The SnowJobs Podcast
The dude handles everything. As soon as we tell him, we're good, bro. You can have a move car cars. He says, OK, give me 45 minutes. We come back. Every one of those hundred cars in that section is up on the curb line that's already been cleared. And we are ready to clear those parking spots. Giant horseshoe.
00:42:34
The SnowJobs Podcast
And that man is a he's an angel. And when he puts out that robocall, they are so afraid of him as far as that 20 minute warning that they're going to get booted.
00:42:44
Billy
the staff.
00:42:46
The SnowJobs Podcast
that He'll put a boot on the car or he will tow it out himself.
00:42:46
Mikey Santolucito
Mm-hmm.
00:42:50
The SnowJobs Podcast
They come scurrying out like you kicked a hornet's nest. They come flying out of the buildings to get their cars moved. It's enforceable. They have punishments. They have fines. They're afraid of the fines.
00:43:04
The SnowJobs Podcast
So they either, if the even if they're away, if they're on vacation or they're away, the keys will be put in a spot for the guys moving the cars to be able to get them. Because if they can't move them, they're going to tow them and they're going to tow them right out of the complex.
00:43:19
The SnowJobs Podcast
They are super efficient. We can handle that entire cleanup in that complex in 25 minutes.
00:43:26
Billy
That's fantastic.
00:43:26
The SnowJobs Podcast
Salted, everything, cleared, done. That is what you want. What you don't want is the other place, that they have no time frame. Well, it's supposed to be 30 minutes per section. that Let me tell you, that is they don't enforce it.
00:43:41
The SnowJobs Podcast
ah They don't follow up on it. The cars routinely don't move, and you have to photograph them post-storm for documentation that, hey, when this guy slips on ice in two days, because he didn't move his car out of his spot so we can clear it.
00:43:56
RICK JAMES
Mm-hmm.
00:43:56
The SnowJobs Podcast
But make sure that is spelled out in that ah RFP, in that proposal, what the plan, if they don't have a plan, pass. Hard fucking pass.
00:44:08
Mikey Santolucito
Mm-mm.
00:44:08
The SnowJobs Podcast
Because it's going to be too hard for you to create one and and create any kind of fear from enforcement of it. I would just walk away if they have no if they have no enforcement plan of whose responsibility it is to move the car.
00:44:19
Billy
Thank you.
00:44:24
The SnowJobs Podcast
Some complexes have a guy or two guys that everybody pays those guys, say, 300 bucks a season. They come out, they dust off the car, they move it out of the spot, and they move it back after the contractor's moved. That's the way to freaking do it.
00:44:38
The SnowJobs Podcast
But that, I will tell you, if they do not have that currently, that's probably a better served by others situation because it's going to bleed you slowly because you're going to be going, if it's not spelled out clearly whose fault that is or who's responsible for it, you could be sitting there three, four hours and get called back three and four days when these cars finally decide to get off their asses and move to clear their spot.
Commercial Sector Snow Removal Challenges
00:45:03
Mikey Santolucito
I just wish other properties outside of HOAs had that same mindset and process because there are sites that will have people that travel and they leave their vehicles because they ah get get picked up at their office and they go to the airport and they'll be there for a week, two weeks, whatever.
00:45:19
RICK JAMES
Mm-hmm.
00:45:20
The SnowJobs Podcast
o
00:45:22
Mikey Santolucito
And I get it. Like you're you're probably not thinking about the weather. You're not gonna look at it and see like if you should probably bring your car to the garage or if you should Uber to work and then just have the car pick you up and then Uber back home. but It's the same thing in the commercial sector.
00:45:34
The SnowJobs Podcast
It is. i like that.
00:45:36
Mikey Santolucito
Like we have to come back and clear that space because the melt and the refreeze from whatever is around that car, unless you have your shovelers cleaned it out, which there are guys that will do it.
00:45:46
Mikey Santolucito
I don't like my guys doing it because personally, if they get too close to it, yeah.
00:45:50
The SnowJobs Podcast
Scratch it.
00:45:52
Mikey Santolucito
Or even if they already have a scratch, they're going to say, oh, you, you scratched my car.
00:45:54
RICK JAMES
Yep. ye Yep.
00:45:55
Mikey Santolucito
It's like, oh that scratch could have been there. You're just trying to get a free repair out of me.
00:45:59
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yep. 100%. They definitely are. It's bullshit.
00:46:02
RICK JAMES
Playing the snow guy.
00:46:04
Mikey Santolucito
Yeah, blame the snow guy.
00:46:06
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yep.
00:46:07
Billy
i agree. I mean, and or these, because we do a lot of automotive stuff. So there's pool cars. don't know you're familiar with pool car, but like, I mean, can you put them in the worst fucking possible location?
00:46:11
Mikey Santolucito
Yeah.
00:46:18
Billy
I mean, not together.
00:46:19
Mikey Santolucito
Yep.
00:46:20
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yep.
00:46:20
Billy
Let's scatter them.
00:46:21
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yes.
00:46:21
Billy
And this is not just one site in particular that's on my mind right now. This is like 20 of our sites. Let's just make sure we scatter them like dominoes all over the fricking parking lot.
00:46:31
Mikey Santolucito
yeahp
00:46:31
RICK JAMES
Yep.
00:46:31
Billy
if on And I won't go near them either because, i you know, we do lawn care too. And I've i've seen how many, you know, 1982 Toyota Camry. I saw your guy weed whipping, which that guy didn't even show up today or whatever. Oh, you owe me a $1.
00:46:48
Billy
What? The thing's worth $300 and he wants $10,000 for repairs, you know.
00:46:51
Mikey Santolucito
yeah
00:46:52
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah, you scratched my anchor.
00:46:53
Billy
enough And the other thing back to parking.
00:46:53
RICK JAMES
ye
00:46:54
Mikey Santolucito
Yep. You've scratched my CD.
00:46:56
Billy
Yes. Yes.
00:46:58
The SnowJobs Podcast
ah
00:46:59
Billy
is the is the apartment complexes now i've had these conversations uh i don't do any apartment my complexes actually but i had a conversation with it was i felt it was going to be a big money spender but when i started breaking down what we're talking about okay you're going to have an initial plow what happens when you have a car space in a car?
00:47:21
Billy
We're not clearing that. It's too close. You have, you know, I have a rule of thumb, two spaces have to be in between, unless you want to pay X per hour for a shoveler to do that, which I really didn't want to do.
00:47:32
Billy
Well, we never thought about these things. you You own hundreds and hundreds of apartment complexes. Not one snow contractor has said, what do we do when people go to work? I mean, these are big.
00:47:44
Billy
There's not like somebody that's going to come out of their apartment and move these cars for us. So what is, well, we want to return business, ah return visit 24 hours after the initial push.
00:47:54
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yes, that's what they want.
00:47:55
Billy
Well, what does that entail? So what if, if it's a Sunday, nobody's leaving and you're going to get two spots pushed. Maybe when, you know, Susie goes to Walmart, you're still paying half that rate because we're showing up. Oh no. Well, we don't think that's fair.
00:48:08
Billy
Well, who's monitoring this then?
Pitfalls of Offering Salting on Demand
00:48:10
The SnowJobs Podcast
okay
00:48:11
Billy
You know what i'm saying?
00:48:12
The SnowJobs Podcast
Or...
00:48:12
Billy
So there's too many,
00:48:13
The SnowJobs Podcast
Or when you come back for that 24-hour, post-24-hour push to clear any spots that are open, and they still haven't moved, but they decide, oh, shit, and they move two hours after that, and they want you to come back again.
00:48:27
The SnowJobs Podcast
am I getting paid extra for that? Cause that's outside the scope of the contract. Well, unless that's clearly stated in that ah RFP, in that proposal that you did, then that's where the disagreements start to happen where you're bleeding money and you have no leg to stand on. So make sure, you know, that's why we're talking about this shit. Cause there's a lot of little things that add up to big money in a big winter.
00:48:49
Billy
Deicing on demand. I don't offer it.
00:48:51
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yep.
00:48:52
Billy
That's not an option. either you're going to let me make the judgment or you can find somebody else because that salting on demand shit everybody's goes home from their route nothing's going to happen today everybody gets a nice weekend oh well you know it turns out 10 o'clock we really need it probably nobody's coming orlando's sleeping everybody's you know tired should have been on the route you know what i mean so we don't offer any on-demand de-icing at all or on-demand
00:49:04
RICK JAMES
Mm-hmm.
00:49:11
Mikey Santolucito
Yeah.
00:49:13
The SnowJobs Podcast
Mm-hmm. Yep.
00:49:16
The SnowJobs Podcast
ye
00:49:21
The SnowJobs Podcast
the only thing The only thing we have for the complexes is we have we do have ice checks for 24 hours after the snow has ceased. that is on That's part of the contract on us. If we find icy spots or refreeze within 24 hours, that is part of the contract. Anything outside of 24 hours that they get calls about or that we get calls about, that is up time and time material above the contract.
00:49:49
The SnowJobs Podcast
that we're very clear on and it only happens probably i'm thinking in the one place maybe three times two two two three times a season i think it happened once this season as bad a winter as we had where we were called back like three days later and that was just because of it's one spot that the snow melts off the hill it's a downhill section and the water goes right across the road during the day heading for the storm drain And then it doesn't, you know, it freezes at night and it washes all the salt off during the day.
00:50:16
Billy
Thank you.
00:50:21
The SnowJobs Podcast
And you got like an eight foot wide strip diagonally across the main road. That's just ice at night and it's on an uphill portion. So people start sliding. But other than that, it's, it's not, but
Frustrations with State Plows
00:50:33
The SnowJobs Podcast
you're right. I mean, that's, that's salting on demand that can bleed you too. If it's not spelled out clearly of when it's part of the contract versus when it's time material,
00:50:43
The SnowJobs Podcast
then it's up for debate whether or not they pay for it in addition to what they're supposed to pay.
00:50:49
Billy
Another thing is, especially around here, we do all our work at night, obviously, like most of us. Well, we'll get to the, you know, our parking lots that are off main thoroughfares or roads.
00:51:01
Billy
And the county comes on, you know, 10 o'clock in the morning after and plows shit in front of you all your customers' entrances. i don't know if you guys have that problem.
00:51:10
The SnowJobs Podcast
Oh, yeah.
00:51:10
Billy
It needs to be spelled out who's back.
00:51:11
RICK JAMES
for that.
00:51:12
Mikey Santolucito
Yeah.
00:51:13
Billy
Because that, you know, for customers to get over, you know, especially little cars like that 1986 Camry I was telling you about, he ain't getting into that building, you know, because they, they mean these big belly blades put the shit right on to the approach.
00:51:26
Billy
Same with drainage maps. Like, you know, it's not just a site map of what needs to be done. You know, we've, I've had ah about six years ago, I had a customer that refused to fix his drainage issues because the gutters were flooding out right under the drive.
00:51:26
The SnowJobs Podcast
No.
00:51:41
Billy
He's getting bills for like, ah ah you know let's just call it $300 every night for a bag couple bags of de-icer on the walks. Oh, it's really bad again. It's really bad again. Fix your fucking gutters, dude.
00:51:51
Billy
Or you're going keep getting $300 bills every single night because there's a thaw and refreeze that starts happening in February and March.
00:51:59
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yep.
00:52:01
Mikey Santolucito
He must just be doing really good in the market.
00:52:01
The SnowJobs Podcast
100%.
00:52:03
Mikey Santolucito
don't know.
00:52:05
The SnowJobs Podcast
Oh, man. you the The sidewalks are definitely an issue, especially on the state roads and the county roads. We we had it happen this year with the big snows where we had the 23-inch, and then we had two or three smaller events.
00:52:17
The SnowJobs Podcast
We had a lot of snow, and it seemed it it didn't seem. The state benched back and pushed back four nights in a row.
00:52:28
The SnowJobs Podcast
So four night four days in a row, we're getting a phone call in the morning saying, you guys never did the sidewalk on on the county road, on the state road there.
00:52:41
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yes, we did it. Like that was done at, you know, 8.53 a.m. on Sunday. Well, ah here we are Monday morning and it's got a foot of snow on it. That's impossible. We figured it out that the state was benching back every night and they just kept pushing it back further and pushing it back further and kept covering over to the point where the guys that were clearing it by the third night, they said, listen,
00:53:05
The SnowJobs Podcast
can we can we like get a thing of steel and just bolt it into into the road, like hidden, so that when they come with the wing and they get to this section, it will totally fuck up the wing on this truck. I'm like, no, just... They were so punch drunk, and they're like, they're just going to keep doing it. We're going to keep coming out here. This is ridiculous.
00:53:25
The SnowJobs Podcast
Hey, listen, sometimes that's part of the job. you know you can't You can't really plan for everything, because I don't know how you could...
Moving Cars in Complexes for Snow Removal
00:53:35
The SnowJobs Podcast
Like, we we didn't have we didn't we couldn't charge extra for that.
00:53:38
The SnowJobs Podcast
Like, I don't know how we would put that in the contract to be able to to kind of get that callback money. Technically, it's 24 hours after the storm, so we could, but I don't know. That's kind of like, I don't know.
00:53:54
The SnowJobs Podcast
That's kind of tough to to put that in a contract. Like, hey, if the state keeps pushing snow on your sidewalk, we're going to charge you individual call-outs to do it. I think the last night they just left it, honestly. They just gave up. They're like, yeah, you win. State wins.
00:54:10
The SnowJobs Podcast
back go
00:54:11
Billy
A buddy of mine, he does a lot in Main Street. you know We do have like a little Main Street in where we live. He does, I don't know, 80% of these little mom-and-pop businesses. It's a good niche market for him.
00:54:23
Billy
Me, this is too small.
00:54:23
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah. Love it.
00:54:24
Billy
just going to smash something because he has the patience. But constantly, his guys have to go back on Main Street and clear all the public walks.
00:54:34
The SnowJobs Podcast
Hmm.
00:54:34
Billy
And, you know, I don't know if he charges for it. And that'll be a conversation that you guys brought because going mention it to him because it's worth charging because if they're coming by late and they're going keep doing this, but you know, if you don't clear that public sidewalk, especially in downtown Plymouth, you're going to get a fine or a citation or whatever, blah, blah, blah.
00:54:50
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:54:52
Billy
And I know he struggles with it because it's it's a pain in the butt, you know, they're wide sidewalks and they're just spraying it up.
00:54:55
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah, it definitely is.
00:54:58
Billy
And then guess what? If you get one of those It's 32 degree storms, 29 degrees. And all of a sudden you're getting that. We had a lot of flash freezes this year. That is really a pain in the butt to move once it hits about 12, you know, and all that water and slush freezes like igloo.
00:55:13
The SnowJobs Podcast
Or. or just the liability of you, you've had that property spick and span, totally clean and de-iced, and now you went home, and at 3 in the morning, the state comes through, and they cover it back over, and now it freezes, and you've gone to bed thinking that everything's taken care of, buttoned up, ready for the morning rush, and now people are slipping and falling at 7.38 o'clock on all the ice that the state put back there overnight, and you had no idea about it.
00:55:39
Billy
Absolutely.
00:55:39
The SnowJobs Podcast
Like, who who's who's liable for that at that point?
00:55:39
Billy
Right. We
00:55:42
The SnowJobs Podcast
I got to believe it's you.
00:55:46
The SnowJobs Podcast
You know, I don't know. That's great. Jeremy, how does it work? You guys do some condos right out there.
00:55:52
RICK JAMES
No, we don't do any condos. We do apartments, but yeah.
00:55:54
The SnowJobs Podcast
Apartments. How does it work with the moving of the cars there? Do you guys have a policy for that or no?
00:56:01
RICK JAMES
No. I mean, they'll usually call us a week or two after an event or we after a few events and they'll say they're going to have cars.
00:56:08
Mikey Santolucito
What?
00:56:10
RICK JAMES
What?
00:56:11
Mikey Santolucito
How long?
00:56:12
The SnowJobs Podcast
House. I thought Mike's dog barked.
00:56:13
RICK JAMES
Jesus Christ.
00:56:16
Mikey Santolucito
A week?
00:56:18
RICK JAMES
It's an apartment. They don't give a shit.
00:56:20
The SnowJobs Podcast
That's Fargo, baby. They're hardcore. They don't need no snow pushed.
00:56:22
Mikey Santolucito
It must remote work seven days a week. Holy shit.
00:56:26
RICK JAMES
No, they'll, they'll, I mean, we clean a lot. We just don't, if there's cars there, we don't do on them or whatever.
00:56:31
Mikey Santolucito
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:56:32
RICK JAMES
So they'll call, they'll do like a, they want to do a cleaning. Like they only do it a few times a year, but, and they'll say all the cars are moved, which they never are. So, but then we go in with skidsters and everything and we detail everything up the best we can.
00:56:45
RICK JAMES
And we're, you know, besides we're having majority of cars will move, but there'll still be cars there. But yeah, it's, it doesn't happen a lot. They probably do it four or five times a winter.
00:56:53
The SnowJobs Podcast
So you're just doing the drive lanes then during the storm. You're just clearing all the drive
00:56:58
RICK JAMES
Yeah, we do all the all we do all the spots we can do, but you know, it is.
00:57:03
Billy
They're tough because you never get it 100% at apartments.
00:57:07
RICK JAMES
Yeah, yeah, we only do like higher end apartments where actually, I mean, we can we plow them, you know, you know how we plow, so.
00:57:15
The SnowJobs Podcast
The one place we have is 100% every storm by hook or by crook. That man, that man, all those cars get freaking moved.
00:57:26
Billy
think it's just powerful.
00:57:26
The SnowJobs Podcast
He's amazing. I've literally said, if you ever lose him, we're out of here. Like, this is amazing. I mean, this is a contractor's dream to have this dude. I told him if he wasn't, he's older than I am. So he's like, I'm not looking to take on anything more. But I said, dude, you could market this as a huge fucking business.
00:57:47
The SnowJobs Podcast
for for complexes just go in there and basically talk go to a board meeting and say hey i will come to this complex uh 300 a winter no matter how much comes i will dust off your car for you i will warm it up move it out of the spot the contractor can clear it you don't even got to leave your building i'll take care of this like you get 30 40 cars that's a you know that's a pretty good chunk of change for the winter
00:58:12
Billy
Bye.
00:58:13
Mikey Santolucito
Oh, yeah?
00:58:13
The SnowJobs Podcast
For an average a normal average of eight events, ten events, you know, that you're going to have to, that that's plowing, that you're going have to move. Like, we don't move them if it's, you know, a half inch to an inch.
Educating Property Managers
00:58:24
The SnowJobs Podcast
We're not moving them. We're backpack blowing the shit off around them, and we're out of there. It takes too long to move them, to get them all moving. It's too big a process. Sending five guys with backpacks and and windstorms, blowing them free, that's a lot quicker than waiting for everybody to get off their butts and move their vehicles.
00:58:43
The SnowJobs Podcast
but how, me see. So ah I'm trying to think what's more important to cover. um How can we, how can we help property managers if they're listening to better understand the issues that we face as contractors and, ah and how those issues could be eliminated, you know, eliminated or limited by a proper ah RFP.
00:59:14
The SnowJobs Podcast
What do you think?
00:59:14
Mikey Santolucito
Just share your horror stories.
00:59:17
The SnowJobs Podcast
Do you find most of them are willing to be educated about our needs and how they need to do things or they like fuck off?
00:59:18
Mikey Santolucito
That's it.
00:59:24
Mikey Santolucito
No, no, it's mostly fuck off. Most of it is just money at the end of the day. Like if you explain to them the obstacles that you already know that you're going to face on their property, they will just say, well, let's just cross that bridge when we get to it.
00:59:37
The SnowJobs Podcast
Mm-hmm.
00:59:41
Mikey Santolucito
Why do we have to wait until we get to the bridge? Why can't we just figure out the best way to get around it before the season starts?
00:59:47
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah, the bridge is out, motherfucker.
00:59:49
Mikey Santolucito
Yeah. Bridge is already on fire. like ah Can we just figure it out now?
00:59:52
The SnowJobs Podcast
yeah
00:59:54
Mikey Santolucito
Because going to save you money in the long run.
01:00:00
The SnowJobs Podcast
i I think sometimes they're embarrassed when you bring up a subject that's and ask them a question that they should you would think they should know the answer to and they have no fucking idea what you're talking about and they kind of give you what what do you what do you mean what do you mean what do i mean like where are your stack sites like where are the what are the designated stack zones here where are we putting them well you're putting them right there on that woman's garden like i guarantee that's gonna be a fucking problem
01:00:29
Mikey Santolucito
Yeah.
01:00:32
Mikey Santolucito
And it's weird though, because they're hiring us for that exact reason, because we are the guys that are thinking of that for them, whether you have a site plan or not, that shows all that.
01:00:45
Mikey Santolucito
we're already thinking about it for you to make your life easier.
01:00:48
RICK JAMES
Yes, yes.
01:00:48
Mikey Santolucito
So they shouldn't feel embarrassed. They should feel empowered, protected, say whatever you want to call it. Like they should feel like, oh my God, this is great. i got somebody that's worrying about this for me. I'm going to think about it.
01:01:02
Mikey Santolucito
I'm going to get their map.
01:01:02
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah.
01:01:02
Mikey Santolucito
They're going to tell me what to do. Like this is perfect. This is exactly what I'm looking for.
01:01:05
The SnowJobs Podcast
I... Yeah, I guess it depends on the kind of relationship you have with that management company. I mean, we have...
01:01:12
Mikey Santolucito
ah too.
01:01:13
The SnowJobs Podcast
most of ours are, you know, symbiotic relationships. Like, Hey, we're here to make you guys look good. Like you guys are, you know, you're the manager, you're the ones who put us before the board and got us, you know, got us in front of them. We won the contract.
01:01:28
The SnowJobs Podcast
We're here to make you look really fucking good for bringing our name into the mix. Um, and then there's others that, you know, it's a fucking extremely combative relationship where they, they fucking try and fight you on everything. And, uh,
01:01:41
The SnowJobs Podcast
they try and tell you how to do what you already know how to do and it's contradictory to how it should be done. Like, dude, just shut the fuck up and let us do what we do.
01:01:54
The SnowJobs Podcast
you know?
01:01:54
Billy
I feel that obviously the current retention that we have, the customer understands over years of education, what we're talking about.
Contractor Requirements and RFP Anecdotes
01:02:03
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yep.
01:02:03
Billy
I would say.
01:02:06
Billy
one out of every two cost new customer that we've picked up, one so 50% of them, maybe even more higher, do not understand snow. Whether it's the building owner, the facility guy,
01:02:20
Billy
uh uh the the pm the management company whomever they do not understand and not just in the ah rfp but when you speak to them about like okay what are you going to do about this broken parking lot over here or whatever it is i did just like mike said i didn't think of that but what you always say they always say the same thing well we'll just cross that bridge when we get to that point of what we do with these cars over here why
01:02:40
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah.
01:02:46
RICK JAMES
Yeah.
01:02:52
Billy
That's why, i like you said, ah I write a lot of my own scope and been price off that.
01:02:57
The SnowJobs Podcast
yeah
01:02:57
Billy
And if they sign, they sign. If they don't, they don't. But a lot of the shit that comes across the table or just even in general conversation is, do you know anything about Michigan weather?
01:03:08
Billy
It does snow here.
01:03:10
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yes, 100%.
01:03:11
Billy
What? It snows in Metro Detroit or Boston or anywhere?
01:03:12
The SnowJobs Podcast
It does snow.
01:03:15
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yep.
01:03:16
Mikey Santolucito
Steve, you're signing my contract.
01:03:20
The SnowJobs Podcast
That's 100%.
01:03:21
RICK JAMES
yeah
01:03:23
The SnowJobs Podcast
You're signing my contract.
01:03:23
RICK JAMES
Mm-hmm.
01:03:24
The SnowJobs Podcast
That's it. I'm not signing yours. I don't need to. like I'm not talking down on guys that sign other people's contracts, but in my neck of the woods, in my wheelhouse, the properties I do, I don't have to sign anybody's contract but mine.
01:03:40
The SnowJobs Podcast
If you want me, this is what you're going to sign. This is what we're going to do. we're not gonna We're not going to do two contracts. We're not we're only going to sign my contract. You can review it with your attorney. If you have any problems or where you would like changes made, you know, or, you know, something you don't like about the torts.
01:03:58
The SnowJobs Podcast
Okay. No problem. That's not my department. That's, that's a lawyer's department. We can definitely visit that. But as far as, you know, what we're doing and how we're doing it, that's going to, you're going to sign our contract and that's it.
01:04:04
Mikey Santolucito
Mm-hmm.
01:04:10
The SnowJobs Podcast
And I love, I love when you say stuff to people like I try and, <unk>ve I've said this a bunch of times, and I love when a big winter just hammers it fucking home and makes you look like an absolute profit superstar that you like predicted the future. I always tell people, generally, with when it comes to snow, the lowest bid is probably going to cost you the most amount of money in the end.
01:04:35
The SnowJobs Podcast
And this year it fucking did. And I had one guy say, like, dude, I have been having that sentence haunt me. all winter long, ever since the nine-incher in December when we had to call in you know help because the guy didn't show up because his oil, his transmission line or something, the oil transmission fluid line blew in his truck. He didn't have a backup.
01:04:59
The SnowJobs Podcast
And they ended up having to pay some guy like $1,400 come rescue him. he like He said it this winter cost me Fucking a fuck ton of money Over what the the low bid was and Hey you know You gotta this is stuff you gotta learn You have to have it properly Spelled out but you like that Mike was I adamant about that enough
01:05:22
Mikey Santolucito
I liked it lot.
01:05:22
RICK JAMES
yeah
01:05:26
The SnowJobs Podcast
uh i yeah i still i so i'm still thinking about the whole church thing that i got crap for i was sitting in church at my daughter's communion last week and as they're passing the hats around i'm like that's going to me see that 20 in there that's mine that's that's i just told gina i'm like listen be generous because it's half of that's coming back right back to me don't worry about it
01:05:41
RICK JAMES
Jesus Christ. Did he just grab a handful?
01:05:51
The SnowJobs Podcast
like ah I'll never forget that poor older gentleman that he was offended.
01:05:54
Mikey Santolucito
He ain't coming down to move the snow.
01:05:56
The SnowJobs Podcast
Dude, he was offended that I made that joke. like It wasn't a joke, though. like A lot of that money you're putting in the hat is coming to me. I know what they're paying me.
01:06:05
Mikey Santolucito
That's what that money goes to. The operation of the church. And guess what? You is operation of the church.
01:06:11
The SnowJobs Podcast
I tell you, the lawn always looks immaculate there, but they pay for it.
01:06:16
Mikey Santolucito
Mm-hmm.
01:06:17
The SnowJobs Podcast
Like, I never understood that. Like, do you really need to spend, like, $75,000 a year to to cut, you know, two-acre lawn at at a church? Like, does it really matter if it's striped beautifully and you have not one weed in there? Like, isn't that besides the point?
01:06:33
Mikey Santolucito
Yes.
01:06:34
The SnowJobs Podcast
Isn't the important thing the actual building?
01:06:38
The SnowJobs Podcast
Not so much the grass? Like, shouldn't that couldn't that money be better spent elsewhere for people that really need it? I don't know. Just throwing it out there.
01:06:49
The SnowJobs Podcast
Oh, what else? What else we got to do? we gotta You know what? Let's hit some commercials here.
Complexities of Snow Removal Contracts
01:06:54
The SnowJobs Podcast
We'll hit some commercials, let these guys get a drink, and then we'll ah we'll keep kicking it around.
01:08:03
The SnowJobs Podcast
all right we're back you know what i just realized while i'm just looking at this we just scratched the surface here in an hour and 10 minutes of just we're we're not even talking about like specific properties like you know the the specific problems with hoa boards and not problems but how problems can be avoided you know through communication proper communication and stuff um and We could do a whole other episode on this easily. i We're even done talking about RFPs yet.
01:08:31
Mikey Santolucito
They could.
01:08:34
The SnowJobs Podcast
it's a You know what? ah here's here's the Here's one of the the most glaring things that I've noticed in the last two years um before this past big winter. The RFPs or customer calls, not one single customer asked or do or had a document that asked for your insurance proof.
01:08:59
The SnowJobs Podcast
or level of insurance. Not one of them.
01:09:01
Mikey Santolucito
Seriously?
01:09:02
The SnowJobs Podcast
Not one of them.
01:09:05
Mikey Santolucito
Wow.
01:09:05
The SnowJobs Podcast
Not one of them. One fire district had it in there that contractor must possess insurance. Did not specify what kind of insurance. I mean, I could have livestock insurance, apparently, and that would be okay.
01:09:19
The SnowJobs Podcast
It did not specify what what levels.
01:09:20
Mikey Santolucito
That's wild.
01:09:20
RICK JAMES
Thank you.
01:09:21
Billy
Thank
01:09:22
The SnowJobs Podcast
It did not specify what type of insurance. It just said contractor must possess insurance, end quote.
01:09:31
Mikey Santolucito
Wow.
01:09:32
The SnowJobs Podcast
That was the only one.
01:09:32
Mikey Santolucito
That's like the first, that's the first thing that we're asked. That's the first thing anybody's asked in our area for an ah RFP is like, where, where's your COI? But stick us on there.
01:09:39
The SnowJobs Podcast
Nope. That's the little, the smaller properties that I do, you know, but the, even the, the HOAs, like, no, nobody, We had one one thing where I think I said it on the show where we got told, hey, listen, you you guys didn't get it. Even though you've had it the last six years, you got underbid by 70%. I'm like, 70%? All right. ah Let me tell you what's wrong with this picture right now.
01:10:08
The SnowJobs Podcast
That guy is actually, had he either has no clue what the level of service expectation is on this property or he has no insurance. i like So I would check for the COI. I would see what the COI says. What is he actually covered for?
01:10:26
The SnowJobs Podcast
Is it a landscaper policy or does it doesn't have snow operations on there as well? And sure enough, oh, yeah, he didn't have insurance. Well, shit, if you don't need me to have any insurance, I can knock a couple bucks off this thing.
01:10:40
The SnowJobs Podcast
It's our biggest fucking expense. how Has your insurance gone crazy, Billy?
01:10:46
Billy
No, it's kind of, which, you know, I talked to my, uh, my agent quite frequently and, uh, we think that it's, it's gonna start not not for anything we did just because obviously nationwide it's, it's hardcore.
01:10:47
The SnowJobs Podcast
No? Good for you.
01:11:04
The SnowJobs Podcast
sure do you still have multiple like a lot of choices for snow insurance in michigan companies that will insure yes that's why it hasn't gone up yet
01:11:04
Billy
Uh, and obviously we're probably have to pick up the tab for that somehow.
01:11:14
Billy
Oh yeah. Yeah. Yep. So there's's it's just like anything. if As long as there's competition, it can kind of keep, you know, prices act as opposed to, you know, but.
01:11:22
The SnowJobs Podcast
yeah sure
01:11:29
The SnowJobs Podcast
Mikey, are you guys seeing insurance go crazy in Massachusetts or no? Not really.
01:11:34
Mikey Santolucito
Not really in the department that I'm in.
01:11:37
The SnowJobs Podcast
Okay.
01:11:38
Mikey Santolucito
I'm sure it is. I'm sure after this winter it is and the amount of claims and all that.
01:11:41
The SnowJobs Podcast
Not one of your concerns.
01:11:43
Mikey Santolucito
Yeah, know.
01:11:45
The SnowJobs Podcast
I got you. that's I love that. i want can Are there any openings for your job?
01:11:51
Mikey Santolucito
Yeah, buddy.
01:11:51
The SnowJobs Podcast
Like working alongside of you?
01:11:51
Billy
you
01:11:52
Mikey Santolucito
Come on, let's go. That's
01:11:53
The SnowJobs Podcast
I'd love that. Not have to worry about insurance. Just go do it. It's awesome.
01:11:57
Mikey Santolucito
somebody else's department, man.
01:11:58
The SnowJobs Podcast
That's great. That poor bastard. i don't know who that is Couldn't pay me enough do that.
01:12:04
Mikey Santolucito
pulling his hair out after this here.
01:12:07
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah, it's pretty it's pretty wild here.
01:12:08
RICK JAMES
Sure.
01:12:11
The SnowJobs Podcast
i think a lot of I honestly think a lot of guys are doing stuff on, like, if they cut a couple lawns and they have that you know that landscaper lawn care policy, they're just fucking rolling under that with nothing to do with snow in there at all.
01:12:30
Mikey Santolucito
Mm-hmm.
01:12:32
The SnowJobs Podcast
But, yeah, I mean, i don't I'm trying to think of anybody who actually it might just be because it's because we've been around in the area so long. Everybody knows we are on the up and up with everything.
01:12:44
The SnowJobs Podcast
But, yeah, I don't think we got asked once in the last two years for insurance certificates. We always provide them, but I don't ever remember being prompted for one or requested in the RFP or specified what the levels are.
01:12:58
Billy
usually first two things COI and W9
01:13:03
The SnowJobs Podcast
yeah no not not in the uh not in the ah rfps around here like i said that's why we're doing this they're severely lacking here crazy what about you out there jay
01:13:04
Mikey Santolucito
That's it.
01:13:20
RICK JAMES
Same thing, not really my department. the Same as Mikey, but i don't I haven't heard anything really, anything major going on.
01:13:23
The SnowJobs Podcast
gotcha do you find your rfps are adequate when you get them or are they lacking
01:13:30
RICK JAMES
oh No.
01:13:31
The SnowJobs Podcast
no no no don't be crazy
01:13:33
Billy
fantastic huh
01:13:34
RICK JAMES
No.
01:13:36
RICK JAMES
Not at all. don't know what they know, the RP really is. the ones I've seen are not great. so
01:13:43
The SnowJobs Podcast
i knew i was in trouble a couple weeks ago when a property manager called and said hey would you be interested in uh in this property um yes send me the ah rfp the what i'm like oh crap here we go
01:13:55
Billy
the the roof
01:13:56
The SnowJobs Podcast
yeah the the the what the ah rfp request for proposal oh yeah i'll see if we have one on that property i'm like holy crap
01:14:05
RICK JAMES
What's the proposal?
Problems with Missing RFPs and Legal Strain
01:14:08
The SnowJobs Podcast
this is this is just gonna go bad really
01:14:08
Billy
Thank you.
01:14:09
Mikey Santolucito
I have one site that doesn't even have an RFP. They have nothing. They just signed my contract.
01:14:17
The SnowJobs Podcast
all right well then i mean
01:14:19
Mikey Santolucito
But then they asked me to add all the legal verbiage to mine from their legal team. It's like, buddy, I can't, one, I'm not going to do that because that's probably a fireball offense to start shoving shit into a contract that I have no business doing.
01:14:35
The SnowJobs Podcast
I have a recording of that phone call, Mike.
01:14:35
Mikey Santolucito
but
01:14:36
RICK JAMES
Yeah.
01:14:37
The SnowJobs Podcast
I have your response.
01:14:44
The SnowJobs Podcast
What?
01:14:48
The SnowJobs Podcast
oh man but that's what i'm talking about if there's no if there's no rfp then they start looking for add-ons and add-ins and you know addendums and all this bullshit that it should have been spelled out beforehand and that could get really it could detract from that relationship and
Future Episode Suggestions
01:15:05
The SnowJobs Podcast
really start to make that partnership go south in a hurry
01:15:10
The SnowJobs Podcast
i don't know but
01:15:11
Mikey Santolucito
I sure can.
01:15:13
The SnowJobs Podcast
This is, like I said, I think we just, we really just scratched the surface here. I mean, I don't even think we, we got into meat and potatoes and stuff, but I think we'll just, we'll kind of have to keep rolling with this and do a couple more and um maybe, maybe RFPs on specific type properties and see, you know, what we come up with, what our needs are, what we need to have in there and make sure that we're in there. Cause like i said i got the hoa is pretty good stuff like that small commercial but you know i don't do some of the sites that you do mike or you do billy and definitely you know not not what jeremy does out there so you know might be good for if we just tackle them like maybe one category at a time do future episodes on this stuff
01:15:54
Mikey Santolucito
Yeah, I like that.
01:15:55
RICK JAMES
Sure. Is this something?
01:15:56
Billy
I think it was just, you know, I'll add a nice, like you said, I mentioned it earlier. There's just a lot of uneducated people when it comes to snow and either they don't care, they don't care about, i mean, it, it drives me nuts.
01:16:06
The SnowJobs Podcast
hundred percent
01:16:10
RICK JAMES
system
01:16:11
Billy
Cause it seems like, well, this is your condition of your property.
Client Education on Snow Logistics
01:16:15
Billy
You have logistics coming in, whether it's guests, employees, blah, blah, blah. How do you not think about these things? Or at least some of them. Or, you know, and that's why i tailor my own. I was like, okay, this is either shit or, you know, this is why, you know, even just the edge. used to preach this all the time. Like, let's educate our customers. But if they don't want to be educated, what's the point?
01:16:36
Billy
But at the same token, signing early. what What benefit does that do for all of our businesses if we knew what we, if we had 99% of what we know we're going to have in June, how you have all season to procure that site in the most successful way?
01:16:52
RICK JAMES
That'd be great.
01:16:52
Billy
think a lot of times,
01:16:52
The SnowJobs Podcast
Amen.
01:16:54
Billy
You know, i know we can't I don't mean to poke fun at people that fail the site, but maybe on bigger sites, why that contractor is failing, because he just picked it up in November 30th and it's done a snow on December one.
01:17:06
Billy
And he didn't even to procure his equipment to the job site, because most everybody around in my area is still doing green season bullshit.
01:17:06
The SnowJobs Podcast
Hell yes.
01:17:14
Billy
So if you don't give your contractor the ample time to procure it the right way, staff it the right way, train the staff on how to do ah maybe an intricate site. You know, yeah, we can do a square box. Nobody really needs trained on that.
01:17:26
Billy
But an apartment complex, there's some training involved. Sitemaps need to be created. I mean, these things happen.
01:17:31
The SnowJobs Podcast
Oh, yes.
01:17:33
Billy
And if you don't allow us enough time to do that, set you up in your billing systems and all these things, most likely it's going to fail. And then we then they say, oh, you know, Jeremy failed to say, you know, well, when did you hire him?
01:17:42
Mikey Santolucito
Yeah.
01:17:43
The SnowJobs Podcast
Oh, virtual certainty.
01:17:47
Billy
Three hours before 20 inches?
01:17:49
The SnowJobs Podcast
Jeremy's still get it done.
01:17:50
Billy
That's cool, nerd. That's your fault. That's not his fault. It's your fault.
01:17:52
RICK JAMES
I'll still get it done.
01:17:53
The SnowJobs Podcast
He'll still get it done.
01:17:55
RICK JAMES
I'll still get it done, really.
01:17:56
Billy
Thank you. I appreciate that.
01:17:56
The SnowJobs Podcast
Rick James, don't fail.
01:17:58
RICK JAMES
i have i don't sweat but i don't s sweatp the small stuff.
01:18:01
The SnowJobs Podcast
I would love to see Rick James and Buds go to go out to Navy SEAL training. He would he would make it. He don't fail. doesn't know how to fail.
01:18:09
RICK JAMES
Fuck. I'd be dead. Just
01:18:11
The SnowJobs Podcast
ah
01:18:12
Billy
training from Al Qaeda.
01:18:16
The SnowJobs Podcast
Give him that set of monkey bars. He's got it.
01:18:20
RICK JAMES
give me a suicide just give me a suicide vest.
01:18:22
The SnowJobs Podcast
Oh, my God.
01:18:23
Billy
I can hit that button.
01:18:23
The SnowJobs Podcast
You guys are funny. No, you're right.
01:18:25
RICK JAMES
the same thing we always say. It's the same thing I always say.
01:18:27
The SnowJobs Podcast
You're right.
01:18:28
RICK JAMES
Snow is an afterthought and nobody cares about it. I mean, we'll just beat that dead horse constantly.
01:18:32
Mikey Santolucito
It's just such a short season.
01:18:33
RICK JAMES
It's not short.
01:18:35
The SnowJobs Podcast
It's not. It's not short.
01:18:37
RICK JAMES
We're sick five, six months.
01:18:37
Mikey Santolucito
It's, it's compared to landscape. It's a hell a lot shorter, two half months shorter in the Northeast.
01:18:41
RICK JAMES
Not here. well here.
01:18:46
The SnowJobs Podcast
I mean, I guess, but
Adjusting Contracts After Snow Events
01:18:48
The SnowJobs Podcast
it's still like, that's why.
01:18:48
Mikey Santolucito
It's like the irrigation season out here. It's not a sexy industry to be in because you're not working a, the full year, but b even half the year.
01:18:56
The SnowJobs Podcast
But that's why after, after a banger, like you just had, If you're in an area that just doubled up on your snow, doubled up on your events, this is the time. This is the year to get these contracts in order.
01:19:10
The SnowJobs Podcast
the The people are going to be receptive of what you are asking of them and have to say if you need to make changes and get them to accept certain things. Because they just saw it firsthand. If something didn't work on a contract you had because you knew it was going to fail because of what their specifications were, now's the time to talk about that. And, okay, we understand now you got 80 inches and you've been telling us that you needed more stack sites or you needed the ability to pull the trigger and haul, you know, when ah when a pile got a certain height. Now we understand why. Now's the time to get those things fixed.
01:19:45
Mikey Santolucito
Yeah. It's also a good time if you just took on like a massive sales season to firm up your team and your processes and earn more profit on what you're already doing instead of next year going after a bunch of new stuff with the lessons that you just learned.
01:20:00
The SnowJobs Podcast
amen.
01:20:05
Mikey Santolucito
There is probably the same or maybe a little bit more profit that you can earn by keeping your portfolio where it is after a big growth season. but training your team, improving your processes, making everything so perfect with what you do in the field that those guys now can train your next generation for the next year so you can do that same slingshot of growth again.
01:20:15
The SnowJobs Podcast
amen
01:20:18
RICK JAMES
Thanks.
01:20:30
Mikey Santolucito
You don't need to keep the same growth trajectory if you're just trying a you're trying to grow great, but you can do the same or better just keeping what you have and then you can grow even more the next year.
01:20:44
Mikey Santolucito
Guys do it all the time.
01:20:46
The SnowJobs Podcast
I said that a couple weeks ago. we did We killed it this winter. We're cutting two properties because we figured out we can streamline and we can make more money with a lot less expenditure by cutting two properties because they just, for whatever reason, they they're great money properties.
01:20:58
Mikey Santolucito
Yep.
Streamlining and Resource Allocation
01:21:02
The SnowJobs Podcast
The guys that are going to inherit them are going to absolutely love where we have those contracts at for them. But for us, it we're just looking at, hey, how can we make things ultra, ultra efficient to the point where we're basically on cruise control. We don't have such a demand on machinery. um We don't have to keep our levels way high.
01:21:23
The SnowJobs Podcast
We can do the same shit.
01:21:24
Mikey Santolucito
Or maybe you outgrew them.
01:21:26
The SnowJobs Podcast
What's that?
01:21:27
Mikey Santolucito
Maybe you outgrew them.
01:21:29
The SnowJobs Podcast
I wouldn't say we outgrew them, but we definitely, they were, what's a good analogy here? We're just trying to get into better shape. It's like when you hit the treadmill, you're trying to cut the fat and I'm trying to cut the stuff that is going to take. If it's not making me astronomical, astronomical, like I couldn't duplicate that somewhere else on an easier property, then I'm going to cut it.
01:21:55
The SnowJobs Podcast
Like if I can, if I can make up the profit on a site that i had to keep three machines a truck eight guys married to if i can make that same amount of money on a site that one loader is on a route and can handle it in that in that production schedule with an hour and maybe one sidewalk team for 20 minutes if i can still make the same profit margin why do i need to dedicate three machines and eight guys to a certain property like if i can have two guys do it on a pass you know it's something that uh you know if we have time in our production schedules to do that then great and the boys prove that we do i'm gonna make it happen
01:22:37
Mikey Santolucito
Yeah, that's fair.
01:22:39
The SnowJobs Podcast
so and i'm like i said i'm i'm on my way out i'm uh I'm not going to be, a it's too much time too much time spent around this to to do everything else properly.
Retirement and Business Integrity
01:22:53
The SnowJobs Podcast
So it's when I'm looking to retire in the next couple years.
01:22:56
RICK JAMES
Maybe executive will absorb you.
01:22:59
The SnowJobs Podcast
What's that? Yeah, I'll be on the executive hit list. They'll be coming after me. Billy, I would sell to. Billy, I would sell the name. Go ahead. You can have the name. I trust Billy with the name.
01:23:10
Billy
Thank you. appreciate that.
01:23:12
The SnowJobs Podcast
I always say I won't sell the name. they They can come try and buy the equipment or whatever. I'll i'll sell them the route. I'll sell them the equipment. But the name stays with me. You didn't build that. You're not going to ruin it. Because that's what what just happened here.
01:23:26
The SnowJobs Podcast
Private Equity bought up three companies, and they wrote on their name for a year. And nobody kind of knew that they got bought. And, man, it was it really kind of dragged those names through the mud. Yeah.
01:23:38
The SnowJobs Podcast
not gonna happen anything else because we'll do another episode in the next couple weeks about this we'll start targeting uh certain certain uh types of sites
01:23:47
Mikey Santolucito
We'll save the good stuff for the next one. Yay.
01:23:49
The SnowJobs Podcast
that's it till then everybody good all all righty yeah thanks boys appreciate the time as always it's good to see you bill mike just saw you a couple weeks ago billy are you going to uh are you going to sima
01:23:52
Billy
We're good.
01:23:53
RICK JAMES
Yes, sir.
01:23:54
Mikey Santolucito
yay
01:23:54
RICK JAMES
Thank you guys.
01:24:01
Billy
be seen.
01:24:05
Billy
ah Probably, yeah.
01:24:10
The SnowJobs Podcast
That's a no. For everybody that knows Billy, that's a hard pass.
01:24:15
Billy
Probably. I mean, it's a short drive for us. So we'll bring the car out and, you know,
01:24:19
The SnowJobs Podcast
Is it?
01:24:22
Billy
I know my guys like it, so we might come and hang out with, you know, like we do every year, just hang out and not actually go. Which is fine.
01:24:31
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah, exactly.
SIMA Event Mention
01:24:32
Billy
What is it?
01:24:33
The SnowJobs Podcast
ah ah we go We don't go to Sima. We go Sima adjacent.
01:24:38
Billy
That's kind of, yeah, with a nice way I was putting it that way.
01:24:42
The SnowJobs Podcast
oh we're there for the parties that's it it's there to see the guys all right boys well thanks for the time man we'll wrap it there then appreciate it as always your insight is always as always is awesome uh it's great kicking topics around with you guys anything else jay before we let these boys go
01:25:02
RICK JAMES
No, I'm good,
Closing and Future Plans
01:25:03
RICK JAMES
buddy. It's another good one. So thank these guys.
01:25:05
The SnowJobs Podcast
sounds good yep all right well then that's that's it we'll continue this in the uh in the weeks to come and uh get some more of these episodes done so you guys can hopefully uh get some stuff changed that doesn't work for you and strike while the iron's hot so that'll do it episode 170 of the snowjazz podcast main show is in the books that is it thanks again to billy all right and thanks again to mikey uh couldn't do it without these guys and uh we'll see you guys all next monday Everybody have a great week. Again, to all the moms, happy Mother's Day.
01:25:39
The SnowJobs Podcast
Be safe out there. Keep pushing.