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"Dustings" 2-28: The "Market Reset Winter", and What It Means for Snow Pros!
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The guys welcome back Jordan Smith to discuss.... the major winter that most of the United States had, and how that will reset the market going into next winter....And what that means for snow professionals doing snow business the right way!
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Transcript
Winter's Impact and Market Reset
00:00:32
The SnowJobs Podcast
Here we go, Snow Jobs Nation. Steve and Jeremy are back again, bringing another Dustings episode. It's been a while, but we're back. So you know who we are? yeah and...
00:00:49
The SnowJobs Podcast
And if we're doing dustings, you know who's also with us, Mr. Liquids himself, Jordan Smith.
00:00:56
RICK JAMES
Thank you.
00:01:01
The SnowJobs Podcast
Ah, so boys tonight we are going to talk about a topic that we've we've been saying for the last three years. If you've been listening to this show that we as an industry need desperately, we needed a long duration winner that that spread across a large portion of the snow pushing community and country and even in Canada. If you're if you're up from up there. uh and for a lot of us in the u.s and canada uh we definitely had a monster winner uh and the reason we were saying we needed a monster winner for a large portion of the country was to bring about a market reset all right and remind people what it takes to do snow and what it costs to do snow the right way so that's what we're doing tonight we're gonna kick that ball around so jeremy jordan how are we guys
00:01:48
RICK JAMES
Doing good.
00:01:48
Jordan Smith
Doing good.
00:01:50
RICK JAMES
Real good.
00:01:50
Jordan Smith
glad Glad to be back.
00:01:52
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah, it's it's been a while.
00:01:53
RICK JAMES
It's been a million.
00:01:53
The SnowJobs Podcast
We we all had winters.
00:01:54
Jordan Smith
that's That's what we say every time because I just get get too busy and you guys are busy.
00:01:56
The SnowJobs Podcast
No, really has.
00:01:57
RICK JAMES
It's true.
00:01:58
Jordan Smith
and
00:01:59
The SnowJobs Podcast
this I don't think we've done one since the fall, have we?
00:02:03
Jordan Smith
I don't remember. Nah, i was like it was like December or something.
00:02:07
RICK JAMES
Yeah, think it was.
00:02:08
Jordan Smith
Yeah.
00:02:09
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah, I don't remember doing one.
00:02:09
Jordan Smith
We had to get through storm
Family and Business Adventures
00:02:11
Jordan Smith
chasing. It's a lot of work to put that together.
00:02:13
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah, it was a lot of work this winter with the big market reset winter.
00:02:13
RICK JAMES
Yeah, it sure is.
00:02:16
Jordan Smith
That's right. It was a good one.
00:02:17
The SnowJobs Podcast
So it was definitely a good one. It was a really good one.
00:02:20
Jordan Smith
Yeah. Yeah.
00:02:21
The SnowJobs Podcast
And the calls keep coming from people looking to change providers and getting sticker shocked by what you're telling them. But they're not saying no.
00:02:33
Jordan Smith
Yep.
00:02:33
The SnowJobs Podcast
ah go ahead.
00:02:34
RICK JAMES
one One second before we get rolling on that.
00:02:34
Jordan Smith
That's...
00:02:36
RICK JAMES
see You mentioned to storm chasing. Jordan was actually at the first episode storm chasing in St. Louis. How that goes, Jordan?
00:02:44
Jordan Smith
It was.
00:02:44
The SnowJobs Podcast
With the boys.
00:02:45
Jordan Smith
It was awesome.
00:02:46
RICK JAMES
The whole family.
00:02:46
Jordan Smith
It was...
00:02:47
RICK JAMES
had The whole family.
00:02:47
Jordan Smith
Yeah, I brought the whole family along. It was a really cool experience. i um I'm one of those weird people that, you know, i don't I don't just set like New Year's resolutions. I actually spend a bunch of time setting goals for the year and ah they're all all varying type of goals. But one of my goals for this year is get the family more involved in the business and and not you know Not for the sake of you know forcing my boys to work in the business. I'd love if they wanted to someday. But if they want to, they're going to start from the bottom and work their way up. so But I thought you know looking for opportunities to make this work, and it was one of those like –
00:03:26
Jordan Smith
perfect aligning moments in time where I was up in Michigan on a work trip. I'm looking at the forecast. You know, we're talking to to True Weather and getting getting the scoop for St.
00:03:40
Jordan Smith
Louis and they're talking, you know, maybe it'll hit, maybe it's going to miss. And all of a sudden the doctor is saying this thing's locked at nine plus inches, which in St.
00:03:48
The SnowJobs Podcast
Oh, it was a lock.
00:03:49
Jordan Smith
Louis is a lot. It was a lock.
00:03:50
The SnowJobs Podcast
ah no Wow.
00:03:50
RICK JAMES
It's a Doc Lock. It's a Doc Lock.
00:03:51
Jordan Smith
It was a lock.
00:03:52
RICK JAMES
Doc Lock.
00:03:54
Jordan Smith
I asked him, i hey i said, hey, is it a good enough lock for me to book my entire family to go to St.
00:03:54
RICK JAMES
Doc Lock of the week.
00:03:59
Jordan Smith
Louis? And he didn't hesitate. He said, yep, it's all it's that
Content and Industry Standards
00:04:03
The SnowJobs Podcast
wow
00:04:03
Jordan Smith
good of a lock.
00:04:04
Jordan Smith
So I was in Michigan. called my wife and I said, you have 30 minutes to decide if you can pull this off. But if you can meet me at MSP in like two hours, we're going to go to St. Louis and film Storm Chase and at ASI and First Form Headquarters, which...
00:04:23
Jordan Smith
She, like a champ, packed five bags and hit the road. not And not just normal bags. These are full of snow pants and jackets and all the kids' stuff, you know?
00:04:30
The SnowJobs Podcast
Wow. Good for her.
00:04:32
Jordan Smith
So we met at MSP Airport and flew down there, and it was a just awesome, awesome event. it was It was not St. Louis weather. it was It was like negative four. It was windy. It was ended up with like 14, 15 inches of snow in a lot of places. Wind was blowing. Snow was blowing.
00:04:47
Jordan Smith
Felt like a Minnesota, big Minnesota, Fargo-type snowstorm. And it was funny, all the guys down there was like, this is the coldest weather we've ever seen. And i'm like, this is just winter. You know, my kids my kids are out there climbing on snow piles and the the the guys at ASR are like, how are they out in this weather?
00:04:56
The SnowJobs Podcast
yeah
00:05:02
Jordan Smith
i'm like, this is this is where we're from. Like, this is what it's like where we're from.
00:05:03
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah, this is a Tuesday.
00:05:04
RICK JAMES
This is normal. Yeah,
00:05:07
Jordan Smith
But it was it was an amazing experience. They got to, you know, be on camera a little bit too. There's a little... little cameo of them in the episode, which they were super proud of. It was a brief one, but that's, that's all they needed.
00:05:19
Jordan Smith
I thought that was pretty neat and pretty cool core memory for our family, for, for the boys.
00:05:19
The SnowJobs Podcast
That's awesome.
00:05:24
Jordan Smith
And then, you know, the episode was cool too.
00:05:27
The SnowJobs Podcast
Very cool.
00:05:27
RICK JAMES
it was awesome.
00:05:28
The SnowJobs Podcast
That's awesome. Good for them.
00:05:29
Jordan Smith
Yeah. Super fun. Super fun.
00:05:32
The SnowJobs Podcast
Awesome.
00:05:33
Jordan Smith
But yeah, it was a busy winter a storm chasing. Excited about our our launch schedule this year. Last year was little chaotic trying to put out an episode every week there after the first one. And this once a month, first ride of the month deal is a little more sustainable cadence and pace that...
00:05:51
Jordan Smith
It gives people a little bit of a breather between episodes and gives them a little bit of a breather between ah our emphatic social media posting, reminding everyone that the episode's coming out.
00:06:01
Jordan Smith
um
00:06:02
The SnowJobs Podcast
It's all the formula.
00:06:02
Jordan Smith
So yeah, the formula, the top secret formula.
00:06:03
The SnowJobs Podcast
It's all the formula.
00:06:06
RICK JAMES
Top secret.
00:06:07
Jordan Smith
ah
00:06:08
RICK JAMES
Kick it out.
00:06:10
Jordan Smith
But no, it was fun. and And I think the feedback from the first episode speaks for itself. you know One of our goals for this year was to increase the the quality of production, increase the consistency across episodes.
00:06:23
Jordan Smith
um And you know if you watch episode one, it's it's it's TV. I mean, it's legitimately TV, Netflix quality, quality videography and editing. And it it looks really, really good.
00:06:35
RICK JAMES
Yeah, i agree.
00:06:36
Jordan Smith
So super super fun to see that product and and like I said, well we'll just keep working to get better every every episode and every year.
00:06:44
The SnowJobs Podcast
That's all you can do.
00:06:46
Jordan Smith
Yes, sir.
00:06:46
The SnowJobs Podcast
All you can do. So you, as we've said numerous times, like when when it comes to talking any topic, we're kind of talking from our own little fishbowl, our own little ponds. So sometimes our views are are limited. I mean, they're a little bit better now that we talk to so many different people in so many areas, but you know you tend to have a good finger on the pulse of a lot of different areas across the country and Canada. So what are you hearing about this winter for most people?
00:07:16
Jordan Smith
ah Yeah, I mean, it's it's the most it's the most chatter I've heard from from all sides of the industry since probably 2018. 2018 was a really good winter all across the snow belt.
00:07:28
Jordan Smith
There's two nor'easters that year in the Midwest had great snow.
00:07:29
RICK JAMES
Yep.
00:07:32
Jordan Smith
Jeremy, that's here we had like 40, 50 inches in February in the Midwest and two nor'easters in the Northeast.
00:07:36
RICK JAMES
Yep.
00:07:38
Jordan Smith
Yeah. So, but I would say since then, which what that's eight years ago, we haven't had this kind of excitement energy in the industry. know, Midwest had some good winters. Jeremy and I had a like a hundred inch or three years ago, but the the East coast didn't get nothing that year. Right.
00:07:54
RICK JAMES
yep
00:07:54
The SnowJobs Podcast
nope
00:07:54
Jordan Smith
So this year we had average snowfall in the Midwest, far above average snowfall in a lot of the Northeast.
Market Dynamics and Economic Insights
00:08:01
Jordan Smith
The only place that got skunk this year was the West, the mountain West just was dry, dry, dry.
00:08:03
The SnowJobs Podcast
The West.
00:08:04
RICK JAMES
Yeah, the West got.
00:08:04
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah. o
00:08:06
Jordan Smith
But Canada to Eastern Canada just got destroyed. And even i think parts of Western Canada got destroyed, too. I was talking to Steve Wheatcroft today. He was telling me that Calgary was having a blizzard and I'm walking outside 85 degrees, you know.
00:08:19
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:08:21
Jordan Smith
um
00:08:22
The SnowJobs Podcast
They did get snow in Canada today.
00:08:22
Jordan Smith
So I think everywhere but the Rocky Mountain West really got smoked.
00:08:26
RICK JAMES
Yeah, definitely. That's right.
00:08:27
The SnowJobs Podcast
Definitely. Almost double. Almost doubled up.
00:08:30
Jordan Smith
So what we see when this happens is is when you have what I would call like an extended drought or or at least extended inconsistency in the weather, you you end up with these deep troughs of of lack of capital, dry powder capital you know is not available.
00:08:50
Jordan Smith
It starts with the contractors because they're typically most irresponsible with their money and it it trickles its way up to the OEMs. Well, sorry. First, it's the contractors. Then it's the dealers.
00:09:01
Jordan Smith
Then it's the distributors. Then it hits the OEMs last because the OEMs are always trailing behind the weather because the bigger OEMs like Boss and Douglas Dynamics, they're shipping stuff out you know a year ahead of time a lot of times.
00:09:12
The SnowJobs Podcast
Mm-hmm.
00:09:13
Jordan Smith
So it hits them later.
00:09:13
RICK JAMES
too.
00:09:15
Jordan Smith
But I mean, we we were in a long enough trough there where Everyone was feeling it. You know, you're i had I had companies I've worked with and friends that closed their doors and and guys getting out of the industry.
00:09:29
Jordan Smith
On the equipment side, you know you see dealers closing their doors. you You hear distributors liquidating stuff below cost. You hear OEMs cutting back on R&D for new products and and for product development because the budget's not there because they're not selling stuff.
00:09:46
Jordan Smith
um you know not None of that stuff's fun to hear hear about or deal with. And and in in conjunction with that, you know, I i don't want to make it sound like the industry has been in despair since 2018. That's not the case. 2021 and 22 were some of the biggest equipment, say snow or snow equipment sales years in the industry ever.
00:10:06
The SnowJobs Podcast
COVID money.
00:10:06
Jordan Smith
But that had a lot more to do with free money than snow.
00:10:08
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:10:09
RICK JAMES
Yeah. No.
00:10:09
Jordan Smith
Right.
00:10:09
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yep.
00:10:10
Jordan Smith
Everyone was getting a PPP loan or PPP grant money and EIDL loans and all that kind of stuff.
00:10:13
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yep.
00:10:17
Jordan Smith
And they were spending it like like it was free money because it was. Yeah. but But since that time, like interest rates are up, inflation's up, cost, everything's up. kind Contract values aren't up for some reason.
00:10:30
Jordan Smith
Why is that? Well, because it didn't snow a lot.
00:10:32
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah, 100%.
00:10:32
Jordan Smith
And again, contractors got to get their act together and and start pricing stuff right. so So this was a much needed reset. and And to be honest, you know, I know a lot of people in the industry on all sides, like started seeing people closing their doors. It's like, man, if we got one or two more winters, this is going to be a,
00:10:52
Jordan Smith
looking bare bones here, you know, and I'm sure you guys talked to ton of guys too.
00:10:54
RICK JAMES
Yep.
00:10:55
Jordan Smith
I know you were hearing in it too.
00:10:57
The SnowJobs Podcast
yeah ah hundred percent
00:10:58
RICK JAMES
yep
00:10:59
Jordan Smith
But this was a much needed boost. You know, exact numbers are not available because
Contracting Strategies and Pricing
00:11:07
Jordan Smith
it's primarily privately held businesses in this space and Brightview is not really doing that much know anymore. They're the only ones publicly publicly sharing their numbers.
00:11:17
Jordan Smith
But based on what I can derive from you know, what we know about the size of the industry in terms of commercial snow and in terms of what we see in terms of the amount of product and inventory that move through dealerships that I talk to on regular basis. It feels to me like with the snowfall this year that there's at least 500 million, not 750 $800 million of additional
00:11:46
Jordan Smith
capital injected back into the industry, which for an industry this size is is a lot. and And that's just to the contractors. That's not, I'm not even talking about money that they spent to clear out the dealer's old inventory. I mean,
00:12:00
Jordan Smith
I was talking to dealers that that sell boss and VSI equipment. They were sitting on stuff that was two or three years old. you know they're They're sitting on old inventory that they're trying to get rid of and they're finally able to liquidate all of it and they're all starting fresh.
00:12:07
RICK JAMES
Thank you.
00:12:07
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yep. yep
00:12:14
Jordan Smith
So right, this all this all trickles up. So now the contractors have some dry powder The dealerships sold through their inventory. So now the dealerships are putting in orders with their distributors, distributors are ordering from the OEMs and just you're just seeing a pep in everyone's step again, which is which is huge.
00:12:30
The SnowJobs Podcast
yeah
00:12:32
Jordan Smith
It's it's something we need something we need in this industry and um excited as a contractor and excited as OEM to be in that position.
00:12:42
The SnowJobs Podcast
Absolutely. I mean, like a couple years back, a couple of, I mean, there were, there were manufacturers that were shutting down their factories in the summer, you know, and now this year you're talking like we talked to, um, we talked to the boss gang, uh, for the cutting edge a couple weeks ago.
00:12:51
Jordan Smith
Yeah.
00:12:51
RICK JAMES
Yep.
00:12:59
The SnowJobs Podcast
They said they sold out of every sidewalk machine that they had manufactured for the whole year.
00:13:03
RICK JAMES
ye
00:13:05
The SnowJobs Podcast
all in this season like that's awesome i mean they we needed that everybody every oem every manufacturer needed that and that tells me that the guys had a lot more money to spend they had a lot of demand for their you know service and you know they were making money enough to spend it so it works for everybody
00:13:21
Jordan Smith
Yeah.
00:13:24
Jordan Smith
And I think the other, maybe even most important reset and and really what – You know, we always talk about one of the things we're trying to do with with Storm and working with you guys at Snow Jobs. You guys have the the biggest platform in the industry, like trying to raise the bar for the industry, trying to set the future standard.
00:13:44
Jordan Smith
And the cool thing is it's not just us. It's you guys. It's it's ah it's the Arctic Boys. it's It's all the other people that are sponsoring the show. theyre like They care about elevating the industry.
00:13:55
Jordan Smith
And What we need to do after a reset year is we need to to reassess where we're at and not let ourselves get back in the spot. And that means reassessing the way we're pricing our work, not just the price we're charging, but the type of contract structure.
00:14:07
RICK JAMES
Yep.
00:14:11
Jordan Smith
like You know, a year ago, we we did a three or four part series about building an enduring snow business. And part of that is building a business that endures through crappy winters and and leaves us with cash in our pockets still and not broke.
00:14:18
The SnowJobs Podcast
Amen.
00:14:26
Jordan Smith
Now, it it doesn't mean you're probably going to get wealthy in a year with no snow, but as long as you can keep the bills paid and be able to refresh your equipment and maintain it, that's a win, right?
00:14:26
The SnowJobs Podcast
amen
00:14:35
Jordan Smith
So with a winter like this, any anyone who had per push or hourly hourly rates were just raking their, kind of their, their customers over the coals. And it was their customers fault for signing that kind of agreement.
00:14:49
Jordan Smith
But I know no guys that are primarily per push and they made, they made four or five, six times as much money as normal this year.
00:14:56
The SnowJobs Podcast
Oh, yeah, easily.
00:14:57
Jordan Smith
But, but, but even guys on seasonal contracts, they, they all hit their ceilings and and we're, we're billing for a couple months billing for a couple months after, you know, because they hit their ceiling in, in January or February.
00:15:11
Jordan Smith
And then it wasn't, it was an extended winter.
00:15:11
The SnowJobs Podcast
I'm still billing.
00:15:13
Jordan Smith
I mean, we're, we're still getting snow, uh, in the Midwest a week and a half, two weeks ago.
00:15:14
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yep.
00:15:14
RICK JAMES
Yep.
00:15:19
Jordan Smith
Um, and, and it's probably done now, but yeah, it's probably done now, but it was an extended winter everywhere.
00:15:24
RICK JAMES
God, I hope so.
00:15:26
Jordan Smith
Yeah. You hope so.
00:15:27
RICK JAMES
Yeah.
00:15:28
The SnowJobs Podcast
yeah i mean most of most places were were gangbusters from december 1st till the end of february at least and then you know even in the march there were a couple but you know you have poor uh uh poor lefty we were we were worried about him for a period in december i mean what were they out 17 days in a row 18 days in a row they got snow
00:15:35
Jordan Smith
Yeah.
00:15:48
RICK JAMES
Nah, I think he said he was i just watched his little YouTube thing today I think he said he was out 26 days or something in a row Yeah
00:15:53
The SnowJobs Podcast
Like, that's that's incredible. Like, I mean, that is a good let's let's go. That's what we needed. And it's good for everything. i i do worry.
00:16:04
The SnowJobs Podcast
I do worry about the per push guys that made so much money off their customers. I worry about if the customer is dead set on staying per push, do they try and find a ah cheaper guy?
00:16:15
RICK JAMES
She's very good.
00:16:16
The SnowJobs Podcast
That's the downside to, to that.
00:16:17
Jordan Smith
Right.
00:16:18
The SnowJobs Podcast
But you know, there's nothing you can do about that now, but that's the only downfall. I mean, like you said, like you said, if, if guys had caps and floors in their contracts, I'm, They activated the caps. If you had it priced right, you're still making money, and the customer expected it.
00:16:33
The SnowJobs Podcast
Because by by the second – actually, no, I'm sorry.
00:16:33
Jordan Smith
Yep.
00:16:37
The SnowJobs Podcast
By the by January 8th, we knew we were going to go over our cap by a lot because we had already had 23 inches in December, and we knew that big storm that we got and is January tenth
00:16:41
Jordan Smith
Yeah.
00:16:49
The SnowJobs Podcast
we were already right at the cap and it was like, Oh, this is, this is gravy money. And then it just kind of shut off for March. We could have got, could have done a better couple, two or three storms, but yeah, but we still got, we, I think we averaged 40, 40 or 41 the last five years.
00:17:00
Jordan Smith
Yeah.
00:17:05
The SnowJobs Podcast
And we, we were at 76. So,
00:17:08
RICK JAMES
Yeah.
00:17:08
The SnowJobs Podcast
so
00:17:08
Jordan Smith
Nice. It's almost double. It's not bad.
00:17:11
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah, no, not bad.
00:17:12
RICK JAMES
yeah
00:17:12
The SnowJobs Podcast
And I even think that was a little short. I had to argue with Rob on a couple of events, but he wouldn't budge.
00:17:20
Jordan Smith
Well, yeah, i and I think, and know, I've talked about it before, but you guys have had a lot of new listeners join since then.
00:17:20
The SnowJobs Podcast
But it's good.
00:17:28
Jordan Smith
and And I always believe people have to hear things seven times to hear it once. But like, we, yeah, we have to, we have to understand that with the exception of the most
00:17:32
The SnowJobs Podcast
Absolutely. We're snow guys.
00:17:43
Jordan Smith
well-versed, educated property managers. they don't They don't know what to ask for in terms of pricing. You need to educate them and tell them what what works best and what makes sense and explain why.
00:17:55
Jordan Smith
And to me, and this is me as a contractor and also working with a lot of contractors and and and just having a general understanding of business, like it is a more enduring strategy for everyone to have a contract structure.
00:18:14
Jordan Smith
If there needs to be ad hoc hourly add-ons for unpredictable things like snow relocation, hauling or melting, then you bid those things ad hoc. But the core contract should be based on average snowfall It should have a floor because that's fair for the client.
00:18:30
Jordan Smith
And you set the floor low, right? We're not giving rebates for 10 inches below average, but if it's if it's a quarter of average, sure. We didn't go out and do as much work as we expected.
00:18:40
Jordan Smith
we're gonna We're gonna give you a rebate. And when I say a rebate, like when I talk to guys, I hate to hear it when they like cut their clients a check back. Don't cut a check back because once you cut a check back,
00:18:49
RICK JAMES
Don't do that.
00:18:50
The SnowJobs Podcast
Roll it. Yeah.
00:18:52
Jordan Smith
Now they're shopping for someone else. You're to take your money and hire someone else with it.
00:18:55
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yep. Roll it.
00:18:56
RICK JAMES
Yep.
00:18:56
Jordan Smith
You roll the rebate to the next season. The rebate only applies if they renew with you because the most likely time to lose a contract is after a low winter.
00:19:02
RICK JAMES
Mm-hmm.
00:19:06
Jordan Smith
So if you hit those floors, you you give them the rebate, you roll it to the next year, that's likely going to get to renew. at at At Storm Snow, at our snow services business, um we we give 15% 25% rebate depending on how low the snow was.
00:19:24
Jordan Smith
To be honest, the 25% level was so low, we thought we'd never hit it. and And two years ago, we hit it because we got 12 inches of snow. ah But but you know that's not normal.
00:19:32
RICK JAMES
fine
00:19:35
Jordan Smith
And you know the cool thing about that was even with 12 inches of snow in a market that averages mid fifty s we kept all our clients because none of them wanted to give up 25%.
00:19:42
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yep.
00:19:42
RICK JAMES
Right.
00:19:44
Jordan Smith
And legitimately speaking, we had zero cost of goods sold that year.
00:19:44
The SnowJobs Podcast
Absolutely.
00:19:48
Jordan Smith
So like, even with the rebates, we still made as much margin as we would have in an average winter.
Client Education and Contractual Improvements
00:19:53
The SnowJobs Podcast
I feel like I've said that like eight times before on shows.
00:19:55
RICK JAMES
Yeah.
00:19:55
Jordan Smith
Yeah, you have.
00:19:56
RICK JAMES
Yeah, no shit.
00:19:56
The SnowJobs Podcast
Like that's the caps and floors work. If you have them set properly and structured correctly, it does.
00:20:01
RICK JAMES
Properly.
00:20:03
The SnowJobs Podcast
But guys hate. They're like, well, we'll do a cap, but we won't do a floor. You can't do that. You have to make it fair both ways or it's a bad business relationship.
00:20:08
RICK JAMES
Right. Yep.
00:20:12
Jordan Smith
Well, and that's exactly right. And this is where the education comes in. Like you you need to go to them and and present. it's It's the art of the deal, right? You're presenting a business deal that you can explain on all sides. Hey, it's fair for you because we have this floor and rebate.
00:20:27
Jordan Smith
It's fair for me because we have the ceiling saying like, hey, if we're if we're 30 percent above average, we're going to excess costs like we need to get extra pay, but we'll make it incremental. It's by the inch or it's by the percentage over whatever it is. It's going to be fair. And you know what? If you want to take it an extra step, depending who you're working for, you know if you're working for a a smaller family owned business or, ah you know, someone that can't necessarily afford a huge budget hit.
00:20:53
Jordan Smith
um you know, maybe maybe you allow them to spread out the overage over a couple months after the season or the following season or something like that.
00:20:59
The SnowJobs Podcast
yep yep
00:20:59
Jordan Smith
You don't have to do that, but some people do. um
00:21:02
RICK JAMES
Right.
00:21:03
Jordan Smith
And then you just obviously most simply explain like, hey, most years we're going to be in the average and you're going to know exactly what your costs are. You know, what if what if your insurance guy said,
00:21:14
Jordan Smith
You know, your insurance is going to vary based on the weather. Like, you don't you don't want to not know what your insurance bill is going to cost. Really hiring a contractor is like buying good insurance. and And good insurance is a flat rate monthly fee.
00:21:25
Jordan Smith
um
00:21:26
The SnowJobs Podcast
We give them a 20-year climatology to show them how many times we hit the floor, how many times we've hit the ceiling.
00:21:26
Jordan Smith
So. Yeah.
00:21:32
The SnowJobs Podcast
That's what we actually give them. And we also cap our cap.
00:21:35
Jordan Smith
Yeah.
00:21:35
The SnowJobs Podcast
We know, like, I know what we're going to get. We're a 40-inch on the dot almost. But if we double, we double. We've done that twice in the last 12 years, 11 years, we had a 96 and now 76. We're not over 110.
00:21:51
The SnowJobs Podcast
we're not going to go over one ten
00:21:54
Jordan Smith
Yeah.
00:21:54
The SnowJobs Podcast
There's no way. I don't care what kind of winner we have. 110 is pretty much unattainable. Whatever we charge them per inch on that contract, we cap it at the price that it would take to get to 110. That way, at least we can give them a figure that they know budget wise. OK, even in the worst, worst case scenario, this is as much as it's going to cost possibly.
00:22:14
The SnowJobs Podcast
And they seem to love that.
00:22:16
Jordan Smith
Yeah. Yeah. And, and, and this is like one of the reasons I wanted to do this episode now is this, even if you're a smaller operator, who's, who's working in the business, like a lot of us are, this is the time to present this stuff to your clients. Cause they're setting budgets.
00:22:38
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:22:38
Jordan Smith
They're setting budgets now, if they haven't already. And the best time to talk about this kind of thing is when they're setting budgets. Cause then they can plan accordingly. And the other thing you got to remember, and this this has been one of my best experiences with the structure. i think I've told this story before, but you know we're in the Mankato, Minnesota market.
00:22:58
Jordan Smith
um And the the the biggest guy for many, many years in this market, I'd say the guy that really set the market here, he was hourly only. Everything was hourly. It's the only way he did it was hourly. So this was an hourly hourly market. No one in this market knew anything ah about anything besides hourly.
00:23:16
Jordan Smith
So you go and bid an account, they wanted an hourly rate sheet, you know? And the big joke everywhere is who's gonna put the rate sheet out first? Because whoever's rate sheet goes out first, that's how everyone else sets their pricing, because they go five bucks cheaper.
00:23:28
Jordan Smith
and I remember i remember a winter. I wish I remember what year it was. I feel like it was probably like 2014 or 13. It was when VSI kind of started to be a thing.
00:23:42
Jordan Smith
I remember telling the team, like, we can't be dealing with this unknown cash flow. Like, we we can't be buying loaders and and all this equipment. That's when we started buying loaders, too. We can't be buying all this stuff and not knowing if we're going to make any revenue or not. you know and And sure, we're not going to get zero inches here. but but you know, some years we only get 20 and we we couldn't risk it at the time. Like we're going to figure out a way to charge a flat rate. And this is during a time when seasonal contracts weren't really a thing in our industry, not big at least.
00:24:10
Jordan Smith
and And we're going to, and I remember telling the team like in the next decade, like this is going to be a seasonal contract market. um And that's ah that's about how long it took. I mean, it it took about 10 years and now you go bid an account in Mankato, Minnesota. It's like seasonal contracts, the first option.
00:24:26
Jordan Smith
And just the stragglers are left doing hourly contracts.
00:24:29
The SnowJobs Podcast
Mm-hmm.
00:24:29
Jordan Smith
So the reason I say this is because I talk to a lot of guys just like you guys doing like, oh, my market's only per push. My market's only per inch. My market's only hourly. Yep, so is ours.
00:24:41
RICK JAMES
Mm-hmm.
00:24:42
Jordan Smith
make a good proposal, show them why it's a good business deal, why it makes sense for them. And if if they're a good client, they should care why it makes sense for you too. For me, it's like, I have guys that I keep on year round that need to get paid.
00:24:55
Jordan Smith
I have equipment I'm paying for year year round, whether we use it or not. And if you want me to be equipped and staffed to be able to take care of your property and keep it safe and and cleared efficiently, I have to be able to pay the bills. So like,
00:25:07
Jordan Smith
You could say it's not your problem, but it is, because if I can't pay the bills, we're not servicing your property and neither is anyone else.
00:25:12
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yep. Yep.
00:25:13
Jordan Smith
So you you make a compelling case for the business case. You make a compelling case why it's mutually beneficial. And then like you said, Steve, you you show them a climatology report. Those are easy to get these days, whether it's weather pros or true weather, whoever, they all have climatology reports. You show them, we're going to hit this average 80% of years, 10% of years, we're going to be over and 10% we're going to be under.
00:25:36
Jordan Smith
For the most part, it's going be right in the middle. And when you show them that and they know they can level set their budget and they know you're going to be fair with them when when you get a low year, that No one can argue with that being a win. Then those property managers, they go up to their bosses and they feel really smart saying, hey, hey boss, they can even take credit. I even tell them, you know, back when I used to do sales, I'd even tell them, I could tell your boss, this is your idea. You're going sound really smart.
00:26:01
Jordan Smith
Pitch this to your boss and say like, hey, i got this idea to level our budget.
00:26:02
RICK JAMES
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:26:05
Jordan Smith
And that that works too, because then they can feel like they're taking the credit a little bit.
00:26:07
RICK JAMES
yep
00:26:09
Jordan Smith
And that when it becomes their idea, then they want to do it even worse. It's a little manipulative, but it it it can work. So, all my rambling aside, like after a winter like this is the right time to have those kinds of discussions.
00:26:27
Jordan Smith
And it's the right time to get property managers thinking differently. and and it and And to be honest, if you wanna make this work, don't don't wait until October. like If you wait until October, the property managers are gonna feel stressed and rushed, because theyre they always are, because they wait too long.
00:26:36
RICK JAMES
Yep.
00:26:44
Jordan Smith
They're not going to want hear about this new fancy structure. It's too late. Like, even if you're not a company that normally sells your renewals this time of year, which I think you should be, I think you should be getting getting your renewals as soon as winter's over.
00:26:55
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah. Oh, absolutely.
00:26:57
Jordan Smith
But if, even if you're not, and even if you're an owner operator and you're out landscaping with a shovel, ah whatever the case may be, carve out 30 minutes a night, you know, after work and just send,
00:27:10
Jordan Smith
a proposal to each property manager saying like, hey, here's our new structure we're proposing. Here's why it's good for you. Here's why it's good for us. Here's why everyone wins. After a tough winter like we just had, and I know it hit your budget hard, this is going to level things out. It's going to lock us in for the next three to five years.
00:27:25
Jordan Smith
um You know, we'll put a guarantee on it. So if we do a bad job, you can fire us. Here's here's how you're protected against us giving bad service. You you show why it's fair and and equitable.
00:27:35
Jordan Smith
And there's just very few property managers who are going to push back on that this time of year. If you wait to October, I think it's too late.
00:27:42
RICK JAMES
Yeah.
00:27:43
The SnowJobs Podcast
We've already seen the reset because it it's reset everybody, not just the manufacturers of snow equipment, not just snow contractors. It's reset property owners and property managers because, like, we have a plan that we were going to start, like, mid-April, starting to talk snow for next year with customers.
00:28:03
The SnowJobs Podcast
We have three main property management companies in this area that run things.
00:28:05
Jordan Smith
Okay.
00:28:07
The SnowJobs Podcast
All three of them have already reached out to say, this property, this property, this property. um We need prices. Here's the ah RFP. I'm like, whoa, you guys don't do this shit till mid-October, early November. And we've told you like, well, yeah, we heard you after this winter. Like here's a deal. This is the ah RFP. Give us a number. And the one per the one property management company, they want us on this one site horribly badly. ah It's been a disaster. I guess the, the board is talking about getting rid of this company. They need to fix this.
00:28:40
The SnowJobs Podcast
Um, I told them that we're not doing, there's no way we're going to pick this up. But I said, we we talked about this four years ago, and we were more than double what they wanted to pay, what their budget was.
00:28:53
The SnowJobs Podcast
And she says, I don't think that's a problem anymore.
00:28:54
RICK JAMES
Mm-hm.
00:28:57
The SnowJobs Podcast
I'm like, I'll give you, ah you know, I said, I don't even want to give you a price because I don't want the property. it's not It's not worth it. There's a way, way high liability there. and And it is liability that will come to fruition.
00:29:09
The SnowJobs Podcast
um They have like 450 stairs of a vertical, extreme vertical nature that you have people taking headers down them in August on dry pavement.
00:29:19
RICK JAMES
but
00:29:19
The SnowJobs Podcast
It's just not something we want to approach. but it was like it's reset for the property managers as well. They are scrambling now, especially ones they approved low bid contractors on that were disasters in this kind of winter.
00:29:33
The SnowJobs Podcast
They need to make it right. they're paying time they're They're saying we will meet your prices. So that's a good thing for everybody. I'm not just talking about me. That's the whole area.
Lessons from a Harsh Winter
00:29:42
The SnowJobs Podcast
They're trying to get contractors in there and are willing to pay now what they're asking.
00:29:47
Jordan Smith
And that and and and you you took the words out of my mouth because that that was the the last part of the reset I haven't mentioned yet is like part of the reset is that when you have sequential low winters, the low ball contractors and the low ball brokers, they do pretty well because yeah because when there's multiple...
00:29:47
The SnowJobs Podcast
Early. Early.
00:30:13
The SnowJobs Podcast
They get away with it.
00:30:15
RICK JAMES
Oh
00:30:17
Jordan Smith
Low winters in a row, the the the underperforming contractors do a decent job because it it didn't snow much. So the property managers get complacent because they're like, oh, this cheap guy's doing just fine.
00:30:30
Jordan Smith
I mean, how many how many failures did you guys hear about this year?
00:30:34
The SnowJobs Podcast
Oh, God.
00:30:34
RICK JAMES
boy.
00:30:35
Jordan Smith
It was off the charts.
00:30:38
RICK JAMES
Yep.
00:30:38
The SnowJobs Podcast
Unbelievable.
00:30:39
RICK JAMES
Big failures.
00:30:39
Jordan Smith
Off the charts.
00:30:40
RICK JAMES
Big.
00:30:41
Jordan Smith
And not and not even not even on that big of like, even before Fern hit, the big one that that we did the ASI episode and and ah Jeremy, you went out and helped in the in the on the East as well, I think.
00:30:49
The SnowJobs Podcast
h
00:30:55
The SnowJobs Podcast
That was the one we got 20 something inches on.
00:30:57
RICK JAMES
Yeah.
00:30:58
Jordan Smith
Yeah, even before that, you were seeing failures because it was just it was a real winter, right?
00:30:58
RICK JAMES
top dog Yeah. Yeah.
00:31:02
Jordan Smith
And that's what I keep hearing from East Coast guys is it was a real winter.
00:31:04
The SnowJobs Podcast
It was a busy December. December was off the hook. Yeah.
00:31:08
Jordan Smith
And not only, not only from a snow perspective, but like, this is the first winter in while that it was actually like cold weather.
00:31:08
RICK JAMES
yeah
00:31:15
Jordan Smith
Right.
00:31:15
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah. Oh, yeah.
00:31:16
RICK JAMES
this
00:31:16
Jordan Smith
Talking to guys from, you know, New York and Pennsylvania, they're like, oh its it's actually cold out this year in the winter. It's not, you know, the grass is actually dormant and the plants are actually dormant and the last couple of years. It's just been warm enough. It just kind of know green grass and then snow. Not, not exactly, but you know what I mean?
00:31:32
Jordan Smith
Um, it was a real winter this year and, and, uh,
00:31:34
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yep. yep
00:31:35
RICK JAMES
Mm-hmm.
00:31:37
Jordan Smith
it It woke people up, but it it definitely helped sort of clean up some of the riffraff. It definitely exposed multilayered brokers.
00:31:48
Jordan Smith
um and And that's another reason that it's an opportunity to to do renewals early because these property managers, the ones that didn't get screwed on budgets because they were per push or per hour, they got screwed on not getting service because they have low ball, low ballers working for them and and they're in a pissed off mood right now. So now's the time to hit them with a, you know, whether not a renewal, but with a new contractor, a new contractor option.
00:32:19
Jordan Smith
It, again, I talked to a lot of guys and and I understand cause I've i've been there recently. Like when you're working in the business, it's really hard. Get all your landscape or concrete or asphalt equipment out and all of a sudden trying to think about snow is hard, especially after a long winter when you're probably burned out on snow.
00:32:38
Jordan Smith
But you gotta do it. Like you gotta do it.
00:32:41
The SnowJobs Podcast
That's the time to strike. yeah Absolutely.
00:32:42
Jordan Smith
You gotta do it.
00:32:43
RICK JAMES
Yeah, it's fresh in the mind.
00:32:43
Jordan Smith
You gotta do it.
00:32:45
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah, you got to keep the ball rolling.
00:32:45
Jordan Smith
ah
00:32:47
The SnowJobs Podcast
Don't let don't let it stop. it's It's been rolling all winter. Keep the momentum.
00:32:52
Jordan Smith
When it...
00:32:52
RICK JAMES
Fresh everybody's mind and then they and then they'll, you know, this can happen again.
00:32:53
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yes.
00:32:57
RICK JAMES
this can happen You know, we can have two bad winners in a row. It's happened before. and you know, you got to be prepared. so
00:33:03
The SnowJobs Podcast
How many snow guys out there, like it like what Jeremy's saying, how many snow guys out there, including myself, have had a normal winter? You hit your average or even been above average by five or six inches, and you talk to somebody in August about snow, and they're saying, yeah, we really didn't have much of a winter last year.
00:33:22
The SnowJobs Podcast
ah What are you people fucking forget two days after the last snowfall?
00:33:22
RICK JAMES
Oh yeah.
00:33:26
The SnowJobs Podcast
What kind of winter you just had? So like Jeremy said, while the iron is hot, while it's fresh in their mind, what they just went through, how good your service was, get on them, get on them stay on them, get it done.
00:33:38
Jordan Smith
Yeah.
00:33:38
The SnowJobs Podcast
Don't let it rest.
00:33:40
Jordan Smith
and And it it all really like it all really leads to the same main point that I started off with is is as an industry. we need to be better. Like we just need to be better. we We need to be better from the boots on the ground up to make the industry more enduring, to make it more profitable. Like that's why storm chasing exists. That's why the podcast exists. That's what storm's mission is. And a lot of these other OEMs are joining in the cause. Like,
00:34:09
Jordan Smith
But the only way it's gonna happen is if we don't just keep doing the things we've always done them. And one of the easiest ways to start is like, let's start getting account renewals and contract offers out much earlier because these late contract awards are bad for everyone.
00:34:23
RICK JAMES
Yes.
00:34:24
Jordan Smith
Bad for the snow guys because they can't plan accordingly. It's bad for the equipment companies because they can't sell. Like we we just scratch our heads at Storm. It's like, how can we how can we spread our revenue out a little bit? Like why do we have to, you know, as as a ah equipment distributor and and OEM, like why do we have to guess at how much equipment people are going to want? Like we we build and stock stuff in Q1, 2, and 3, and then we got to sell all of it in q four You know, and and and I don't blame guys like i I don't like to buy iron until I know what accounts I have either.
00:34:54
RICK JAMES
Right.
00:34:58
Jordan Smith
But fortunately for me, we have most of that locked in in the summertime, you know, and if every company had that, it would shift the timing and understanding and planning ability for everyone.
00:35:03
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yep. Trying.
00:35:09
Jordan Smith
So like. when when when When we do get a big winter and guys are like, how are you out of stuff? Like, for example, great example. We ran out of, but for the first time ever, we ran out of everything this year. We ran out of plow inventory, ran ran out of parts inventory, like stuff that we've never come close to running short on.
00:35:29
Jordan Smith
And people are used to us always having stuff. They're calling in February, like, I'm looking for three plows and all these parts. and we're like, we have nothing. we We don't have anything, which, you know, they could say, oh that's not acceptable. We had some guys pretty mad, actually. And it's like, you're right.
00:35:42
Jordan Smith
But part of it's because we have no idea what we need until November every year because, you know, we're not blaming them. But like, because property managers don't sign contracts till November because we don't give them bids till October. And why should they sign them sooner?
00:35:57
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:35:57
Jordan Smith
You know, so it's it's a something that has to start with us and and trickle its way up.
00:35:57
RICK JAMES
Yeah.
00:36:02
Jordan Smith
And I'm not saying that property managers have no culpability. They absolutely do. Some of the biggest corporations in this country wait to award contracts until the fall, which is crazy.
00:36:11
RICK JAMES
yep
00:36:12
Jordan Smith
But that's partially because we allow that to happen.
00:36:15
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:36:16
Jordan Smith
You know, um
00:36:17
The SnowJobs Podcast
that's That's half the problem. Somebody's always going to take it. Even if a lot of guys say no, somebody's always going to fucking take it.
00:36:20
Jordan Smith
someone's always going to take it.
00:36:24
Jordan Smith
But that doesn't mean, you know, kind of like my story about 10 years to get our market transition to seasonal contracts, like it little incremental steps every year eventually leads to to to big change.
00:36:36
Jordan Smith
And, you know, so that's that's my main call to action from this episode is like just whether you've ever done it or not, get on the email, get on the phone.
00:36:40
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah. Yeah.
00:36:46
Jordan Smith
for the sake of yourself, for the sake of the industry, for the sake of everyone that works in it, like get out there and try to get some contracts put in place now. And and and if you try now, you'll maybe have them in August, but that's better than having them in November.
00:37:00
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah, it's 100%.
00:37:00
RICK JAMES
All right.
00:37:02
The SnowJobs Podcast
And i think the I think you got little wins, little wins, you know, in in places that like we heard from one of our one of our friends that spoke to one of the the big national brokers and ah was talking about Jeremy and I saying, those two fucking assholes have made my job astronomically harder to get contractors lined up and it's costing me a lot more to do it.
00:37:26
The SnowJobs Podcast
I'm like, that's fucking the best praise I could ever receive. Like, that's a big win for me and Jay.
00:37:30
Jordan Smith
It is.
00:37:30
RICK JAMES
yeah
00:37:32
The SnowJobs Podcast
Good.
00:37:32
Jordan Smith
it But it it is, though. and And that's why we got to talk about this stuff. And that's why we got to talk about it in April. and And you're right. i mean I one of the coolest things about the podcast I've heard you guys say is like,
00:37:47
Jordan Smith
listenership doesn't drop off in the spring and summer and fall, right?
00:37:50
The SnowJobs Podcast
No.
00:37:50
Jordan Smith
It just keeps going and going. So that, which is awesome, but like as contractors, then let's not let our focus on snow fall off either. And again, I get it. People are busy. you got other stuff going on. You can't put all your time in the snow if you got a landscape or concrete or whatever company.
00:38:06
RICK JAMES
Mm-hmm.
00:38:06
Jordan Smith
You don't have to do all of it at once. Just little things, renewals, a prospecting new business.
00:38:09
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yep. 100%.
00:38:12
Jordan Smith
Just do one one a day. like Do one a day from now until June and they're all done. Unless you've got 700 accounts or something, they're all done by June. Just go. So that's that's that's my ah that's my final word for for this topic.
00:38:23
The SnowJobs Podcast
hundred percent
00:38:27
The SnowJobs Podcast
it's definitely It's definitely the winter that we've been waiting for, that we've been talking about for the last three years of this show that we've all needed. And, like, let's do something different. Let's not fuck this up in true snow guy fashion. Like, take advantage of this moment. It does not come around very
Industry Events and Future Growth
00:38:44
The SnowJobs Podcast
often. What has it been, eight years since the last opportunity? Like, make this one count. Like Jordan's saying, let's let's get this one right, guys.
00:38:53
The SnowJobs Podcast
Stay on it, get on it, and and do it right, and little wins. Little wins add up to a big win at the end.
00:39:01
Jordan Smith
Absolutely.
00:39:02
The SnowJobs Podcast
What else? What else we got to talk about?
00:39:04
Jordan Smith
Well, i I think just, just tying into that, like, you know we're, we're, we're at a stage at at storm where, you know, we're, we're maturing as a company and, and those that listen to the show probably know we have some, some pretty cool stuff happening this year.
00:39:20
Jordan Smith
um and so because of that, like we're, we're kind of taking a, I call it a world tour of, uh, of new fun things and product launches and, and, uh, educational opportunities. So, uh, for all those listening that like going to these events or honestly, if if you have never gone to industry events, what there's no better way to get the snow, you know, kind of, I call it the snow bug or the, you know, whatever to get, uh, uh,
00:39:48
Jordan Smith
the infectious environment of snow guys, you know, collaborating, being together, networking. There's so many opportunities this year to do that. One of them is next week, right? You guys will be at the Snow Alliance event, which, you know, if you want tickets, it's sold out.
00:39:57
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yep.
00:39:58
RICK JAMES
Yeah.
00:39:59
The SnowJobs Podcast
Hell yeah.
00:40:02
Jordan Smith
So that, I don't know, and you'll have to, you'll have to call Storks and see if you can talk them into it.
00:40:04
The SnowJobs Podcast
dr
00:40:06
Jordan Smith
But yeah.
00:40:07
The SnowJobs Podcast
Sean DiVincenzo may be scalping.
00:40:13
RICK JAMES
for a barge of salt or something.
00:40:15
The SnowJobs Podcast
ah That's it.
00:40:16
RICK JAMES
Yeah.
00:40:16
The SnowJobs Podcast
We all might do that.
00:40:18
RICK JAMES
Yeah.
00:40:19
Jordan Smith
for For anyone that is going to that event, um there there might be a surprise there. i can't I can't say what it is, but if you're going to be there, look for a any one of the 10 Storm people that will be there.
00:40:31
Jordan Smith
You might you might find a mine find something interesting at the show.
00:40:34
The SnowJobs Podcast
Ooh, scavenger hunt.
00:40:35
RICK JAMES
Oh, that's, it's a, I'll tell her. It's a Steve's my thumb tank, right?
00:40:40
Jordan Smith
Exactly. Yes.
00:40:41
The SnowJobs Podcast
i would I would be in on that.
00:40:41
Jordan Smith
Steve's my dunk tank. yeah It's actually a pretty pretty good idea, actually, now that you say it.
00:40:44
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah. June 23rd to the 26th.
00:40:48
RICK JAMES
Yeah. Yeah.
00:40:49
Jordan Smith
So we got that, and then obviously we got Sima what is it, late June in Cincinnati, right?
00:40:51
RICK JAMES
What else do you get?
00:40:56
The SnowJobs Podcast
june twenty third to the twenty sixth
00:40:57
Jordan Smith
That's always a good, let's see, July.
00:40:58
RICK JAMES
Yep. What's going on in July?
00:41:03
Jordan Smith
Oh, we got Storm Field Day in July, and 30th.
00:41:05
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yep. yep
00:41:05
RICK JAMES
Oh, nice. Hmm.
00:41:07
Jordan Smith
And then we're planning part of this world tours. We're planning some additional events. Some of them are events that have existed, but we're going to try to make them bigger. And obviously you guys have been part of these too, but I think we're going to add an event in Ohio this year.
00:41:22
Jordan Smith
um No details out yet, but but stay tuned. I'm sure you hear about it on the show first. ah Jeremy and I talked literally right before the show. So there's nothing official about this, but maybe something in Fargo for the Midwest guys or anyone that wants to visit beautiful Fargo.
00:41:39
The SnowJobs Podcast
Metropolis.
00:41:39
RICK JAMES
Yeah.
00:41:39
Jordan Smith
Show you show you a good time.
00:41:40
RICK JAMES
Woo-hoo.
00:41:41
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:41:42
Jordan Smith
ah
00:41:42
The SnowJobs Podcast
Metropolis.
00:41:44
RICK JAMES
Pepto-Bison.
00:41:44
Jordan Smith
We'll have the S&S event is in September. Again, good event.
00:41:47
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yep.
00:41:48
Jordan Smith
We're going to blow that thing up this year. And we've been talking to Tony and Janet, maybe try to double or triple the size of that deal. um And then Patty Salmon at Northeast Tei Icing is events on, I think, October 1st this year.
00:42:02
RICK JAMES
Go first, yeah.
00:42:04
Jordan Smith
So Storm will be in large attendance at all of those and there will be some some cool stuff to show.
00:42:04
The SnowJobs Podcast
Bring the stones.
00:42:09
Jordan Smith
And then again, we're gonna keep pushing on the educational side of this stuff too and and keep pushing that standard for the industry. So I was looking at my travel calendar and it's I'm excited, but it's a lot, it's lot.
00:42:18
The SnowJobs Podcast
Absolutely
00:42:25
Jordan Smith
It's gonna be a lot and it's gonna be fun. So hopefully we can see a lot of you guys there.
00:42:28
The SnowJobs Podcast
We're always busy We're always busy it's you know The demand is there And it's ah it's it's good you know these These events are great The one day things are killing it
00:42:31
Jordan Smith
Yeah.
00:42:38
Jordan Smith
Yeah.
00:42:39
The SnowJobs Podcast
they're They're getting better and better. They're all, I don't want to say they're all trying to outdo each other, but when one event raises the bar, then the other one-day regional events also raise their bars.
00:42:50
The SnowJobs Podcast
And then it just keeps, every event keeps getting better and better and better.
00:42:51
Jordan Smith
Yeah.
00:42:54
The SnowJobs Podcast
Like Patty Salmon in one year, that event was like unrecognizable from year one to year two.
00:42:59
Jordan Smith
Yeah. yeah
00:43:00
The SnowJobs Podcast
So that like that was great.
00:43:01
Jordan Smith
yep
00:43:02
The SnowJobs Podcast
And as long as his sister's doing all the baking and the the catering stays the same, we're there. That was exceptional.
00:43:07
Jordan Smith
Yes. Phenomenal. Absolutely phenomenal. But yeah, this stuff's huge. and And I think that, you know, nothing is the end all be all, but the more you can interact with other people from the industry,
00:43:23
Jordan Smith
the the more awareness that comes forward, the more it's present in mind, the more we talk about it, you know, having a podcast or two or three episodes to listen to every week is is huge, but just keeping snow front of mind and and making it a serious part of your focus in your business.
00:43:37
Jordan Smith
Cause if you do it right, guys, we've talked about this, but snow can and should be the most profitable thing you do. Like it,
00:43:43
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yep.
00:43:44
RICK JAMES
Mm-hmm.
00:43:44
Jordan Smith
I know there's guys that are crushing it with hardscapes and stuff. Awesome. I've done that stuff too. But if you build a snow business right, there's nothing better than a snow business. And and yes, can be exhausting. and And yes, it can be expensive from a CapEx standpoint. But if you build the business right,
00:44:02
Jordan Smith
It's a ah really, really durable and high growth potential, high margin potential type business. And anyone who says it's not is not doing it right.
00:44:13
Jordan Smith
I mean, perfect example, ASI in St. Louis, for those that haven't watched the Storm Jason episode, that is a snow only company in St. Louis, Missouri, where they average like 15 inches of snow a year.
00:44:25
Jordan Smith
This is a multi-multi-million dollar snow-only company with full-time staff year-round
Storm Chasing and Broader Appeal
00:44:32
Jordan Smith
in St. Louis, Missouri.
00:44:34
RICK JAMES
Mm-hmm.
00:44:34
The SnowJobs Podcast
15-inch market.
00:44:36
Jordan Smith
If that can work, it can work anywhere.
00:44:39
RICK JAMES
That's pretty good.
00:44:40
The SnowJobs Podcast
And I think it's also important to point out you can also make it work without unicorn sites.
00:44:46
Jordan Smith
Yes.
00:44:47
The SnowJobs Podcast
You don't necessarily because we've heard that a lot lately, like, well, the way you got to do it is you got to get a distribution center.
00:44:48
RICK JAMES
Yep.
00:44:53
The SnowJobs Podcast
You got to get a data center. got to get these big unicorn sites. It's not the only way to do it. There's plenty of guys out there that don't handle any of those and that are very successful because they do it the right way.
00:45:03
Jordan Smith
what Watch ESI episode. Rick Blaze, the owner, talks about it. He started off himself in a pickup truck in a straight blade plow, didn't even have a salt spreader, just doing small commercial accounts.
00:45:16
Jordan Smith
And he's he's got some nice sites now. He does some Amazons. He's got you know whatever.
00:45:20
The SnowJobs Podcast
Sure.
00:45:20
Jordan Smith
But it's ah it's a lot of malls.
00:45:21
The SnowJobs Podcast
It's a progression.
00:45:22
Jordan Smith
It's malls. It's retail. um It's
00:45:25
The SnowJobs Podcast
Which is even more impressive because malls are dying and have no money.
00:45:28
RICK JAMES
Yeah, exactly.
00:45:29
Jordan Smith
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:45:30
The SnowJobs Podcast
So that's good for him. but
00:45:32
Jordan Smith
He's, i you know, like I said, he's he's got some flagship sites. They got some really cool sites, but a big part of their portfolio portfolio looks like stuff that anyone anyone can do. And they just do it extremely well.
00:45:44
Jordan Smith
um they they They price it right. They have the right contract structure. They have the right guys on the job because they they retain their employees year after year because they run a good business. And they just they have a great company. And it's a snow only company in St. Louis, Missouri.
00:45:59
The SnowJobs Podcast
Put an efficient operator in an efficient machine with an efficient pusher and price it correctly, and you will make a ton of money. It's that simple.
00:46:07
Jordan Smith
Yes.
00:46:08
The SnowJobs Podcast
It's that simple.
00:46:09
Jordan Smith
Yeah. Yep.
00:46:11
RICK JAMES
That simple.
00:46:12
Jordan Smith
you you guys you guys do do you guys Do you guys know of any good pushboxes out there?
00:46:13
The SnowJobs Podcast
With as little hydraulics as possible.
00:46:18
Jordan Smith
what Who makes a good pushbox?
00:46:19
The SnowJobs Podcast
ah
00:46:21
RICK JAMES
Arctic makes a pretty good one.
00:46:22
The SnowJobs Podcast
Arctic makes a pretty good one.
00:46:22
Jordan Smith
Do they? oh
00:46:23
RICK JAMES
Have you heard of one?
00:46:23
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah, I'd say they're pretty, pretty good.
00:46:23
Jordan Smith
I'll have to check those out. I haven't heard I'll check them out.
00:46:27
The SnowJobs Podcast
ah
00:46:29
RICK JAMES
There's a ghost one out there, man. I don't know.
00:46:30
Jordan Smith
ah Yeah, I don't know. There might be. I've heard about it, but it's it's it's pretty elusive.
00:46:33
The SnowJobs Podcast
casper
00:46:35
RICK JAMES
Stealth.
00:46:36
Jordan Smith
Yeah, that absolutely.
00:46:36
RICK JAMES
Stealth.
00:46:38
The SnowJobs Podcast
uh i had that sound bite too it got replaced it got replaced
00:46:41
RICK JAMES
I was trying to find some something too, but i couldn't find it.
00:46:46
Jordan Smith
and it's going to be, it's going to be a fun year. And i want to like one of my goals, I'm also, Hey, I should mention this.
00:46:49
RICK JAMES
It's going be an exciting summer. i can guarantee you that.
00:46:54
Jordan Smith
I'm bringing, uh, I'm bringing my, my, uh, at least two of my kids to all these events. So everywhere I go I'm gonna have kids with me.
00:46:59
The SnowJobs Podcast
Oh, cool.
00:47:01
Jordan Smith
It's part of, like I said, one of my goals for this year.
00:47:01
The SnowJobs Podcast
Nice.
00:47:02
RICK JAMES
Nice.
00:47:03
Jordan Smith
So make sure to come and say, hi, I like to meet new people. I love talking to everyone. And, and it's, it,
00:47:08
RICK JAMES
Ooh.
00:47:08
The SnowJobs Podcast
That's great. That's going to be very tough, though. That's going to be hard on me now because Riley is always asking to go, especially to Minnesota to Storm Day.
00:47:16
Jordan Smith
you You have to bring Riley because I have a kid the exact same age who sounds just as just as crazy as your kid and they'd have a lot of fun together.
00:47:25
The SnowJobs Podcast
Oh, God. Yeah.
00:47:26
RICK JAMES
Your kid should wear the shirt I gave
00:47:29
Jordan Smith
Which one?
00:47:29
The SnowJobs Podcast
wife
00:47:31
RICK JAMES
The girl's on
00:47:33
The SnowJobs Podcast
yeah Oh Yeah, no, that's probably not gonna fly.
00:47:33
Jordan Smith
Oh, my, you know, one of my 12 year olds saw that shirt and he's like, can I wear this? I'm like, I don't think so. I don't think that would go over well.
00:47:45
Jordan Smith
They go to a little Lutheran school. i don't think that's going to go well at all.
00:47:48
RICK JAMES
list. He was standing at our booth all day, and like, what can I get you? I go, I got a perfect shirt for you.
00:47:55
The SnowJobs Podcast
I really want that. Listen, that shirt will be shirt will be that shirt will be that shirt will be tight when he's 18.
00:47:57
RICK JAMES
And was like, if I get in trouble, I get in trouble. It is what it is. Yeah.
00:48:02
The SnowJobs Podcast
Wow, that's Oh my gosh.
00:48:05
Jordan Smith
That's a big kid.
00:48:05
The SnowJobs Podcast
ah
00:48:06
Jordan Smith
He's a big kid.
00:48:07
RICK JAMES
I'll
00:48:07
Jordan Smith
He's ah he's a 150-pound seventh grader. He's a monster. That's kid.
00:48:11
The SnowJobs Podcast
ah big
00:48:11
RICK JAMES
see. He looks bigger. He looks older than he is. He must throw it on.
00:48:15
Jordan Smith
Yeah. Yeah. It's going to be, it's going to be fun.
00:48:16
The SnowJobs Podcast
ah guys
00:48:17
Jordan Smith
And I've already, man, I like, I promise I'm not just sucking up to you guys here, but I get so many messages and actually this is what reminded me.
00:48:28
Jordan Smith
I got to record a fricking podcast. All these messages. I heard, I heard your snow jobs up, but heard your snow jobs up. So I'm like, you must be listening to archives. It's been a while. And it just, it just, you guys are getting so much reach with new people that, well,
00:48:39
The SnowJobs Podcast
Still getting hits still did just this week, probably. And I'm not even on Facebook. Like I'm i'm very minimal on Facebook, but just this week, three DMS, Hey, found the show that I'm like binging. And I'm like, where have you been? Like guys in Canada, part of huge snow companies. And he's like, yeah, I just found this the show. I'm going to have the whole crew listen to it. It's awesome.
00:49:02
Jordan Smith
in In the US alone, there are 75,000 companies.
00:49:08
The SnowJobs Podcast
Really?
00:49:08
Jordan Smith
and And I think the average size is like 2.8 people, right? So it's it's a lot of owner operators and that kind of thing.
00:49:13
The SnowJobs Podcast
Sure.
00:49:15
Jordan Smith
But at Storm, we call it the the hidden majority, like the the the majority of the industry who doesn't really consume, ah you know they don't go to the events and they don't consume a lot of social media.
00:49:27
Jordan Smith
And maybe snow is not their primary business because they're concrete guys or asphalt guys, but like there's so many guys out there. And that's why you know you guys keep doing the show. your your listenership growth is unlimited. The potential is unlimited. Plus you're you're, you know, between that and storm chase and we're we're attracting non-snow guys too, because it's kind of a fascinating industry to to learn about.
Future Plans and Industry Progress
00:49:48
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah, that honestly, the storm chasing I get because it's visual. But if you're not a snow guy and you're listening to so the to the podcast, that's a little scary. Like like you have you have no reason to listen to us like turn off.
00:50:02
The SnowJobs Podcast
and I can understand if you're a spouse of a snow person or something, but like that's weird.
00:50:02
Jordan Smith
yeah, yeah.
00:50:07
The SnowJobs Podcast
Like if we get people that aren't in snow at all that just tune in to hear us two idiots every week.
00:50:13
Jordan Smith
I mean, the cool thing with storm chasing is like episode one this year, like 60% of our views are, are, are new people who've never watched it before that YouTube recommended it to.
00:50:20
The SnowJobs Podcast
new
00:50:24
Jordan Smith
So it's probably unlikely that a lot of these people are not our subscribers. They're not listeners. Like these are just people that are seeing it for the first time, which is really neat.
00:50:30
The SnowJobs Podcast
yeah it's the formula it's the formula i can't resist i gotta stop
00:50:33
Jordan Smith
That's the whole goal is to get reach, you know, it's the secret formula. Yes.
00:50:38
RICK JAMES
It's coming. It's coming in.
00:50:41
Jordan Smith
Yes.
00:50:42
RICK JAMES
Yeah.
00:50:42
The SnowJobs Podcast
Oh my God.
00:50:44
Jordan Smith
That's all I got, boys.
00:50:46
The SnowJobs Podcast
Man, I wish I had that little, I had a sound bite for you with the little ghost sound, but I didn't, I didn't preload it tonight.
00:50:46
RICK JAMES
Awesome.
00:50:55
The SnowJobs Podcast
Cause I, I wanted to have the, my standard, my standard metal plus response sound bites.
00:50:56
RICK JAMES
I was trying to find one. couldn't.
00:51:13
The SnowJobs Podcast
That's just my standard button now for anything with that.
00:51:15
Jordan Smith
Perfect. Perfect.
00:51:17
The SnowJobs Podcast
Oh, Christ. All right. Anything else?
00:51:21
Jordan Smith
i'm um'm I'm cooked. I'm ready for bed. you guys probably are too.
00:51:23
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah, me too. Yep.
00:51:25
Jordan Smith
Well, Jeremy's having energy drinks, so probably Jeremy's probably not ready for bed.
00:51:25
The SnowJobs Podcast
330 comes.
00:51:28
RICK JAMES
They don't do anything for me.
00:51:29
Jordan Smith
I still can't believe that.
00:51:30
The SnowJobs Podcast
No, no, that's like water for him. It does not affect them.
00:51:33
RICK JAMES
They don't. They never never have they ever. i'm not ah I drink water all day long.
00:51:38
The SnowJobs Podcast
I'd be up for a week straight with a sip of monster.
00:51:38
RICK JAMES
I'll drink cup.
00:51:41
RICK JAMES
i I'll probably drink two of those first forms of nothing.
00:51:46
The SnowJobs Podcast
can't do it can't do it all right oh nobody's got anything else we'll wrap that dustings good all right good to see you jordan welcome back we'll have to uh we'll have to get these uh get these going more regularly now that we're all less busy
00:51:53
Jordan Smith
it.
00:51:54
RICK JAMES
So let's go.
00:51:56
Jordan Smith
guys too?
00:51:58
RICK JAMES
See you next week.
00:52:02
Jordan Smith
we I think, yeah, i think ah ah we're just gonna throw them on the calendar and we're gonna we're just gonna do it. So we'll we'll shoot for monthly like we're supposed to.
00:52:10
The SnowJobs Podcast
sounds good amen
00:52:12
Jordan Smith
I got i got lots of stuff prepped.
00:52:12
RICK JAMES
Perfect.
00:52:14
Jordan Smith
um for future episodes. I think it'll be good stuff.
00:52:18
The SnowJobs Podcast
Love it.
00:52:18
RICK JAMES
Awesome.
00:52:19
The SnowJobs Podcast
All right. Well, we'll see you soon then.
00:52:19
RICK JAMES
Perfect. Yep.
00:52:22
The SnowJobs Podcast
All right, guys, that's going to do it. We'll wrap this dustings episode on the snow jazz podcast right here. Thanks to Jordan as always for joining us, bringing all that information. He's always got the stats and that's why we, we definitely love having them because we all live in our own little ponds and he sees it on a more global scale. So everybody listen, have a great weekend and we'll talk soon.
00:52:43
The SnowJobs Podcast
Be safe. Keep pushing.