Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Literary Side Quests: When Distractions Derail Your Writing
118 Plays2 months ago
In this episode of Pen Pals, Kelton and Krisserin confront their greatest writing nemesis: distraction. While Kelton battles the twin challenges of a baby learning to poop and the allure of raccoon videos on her explore page, Krisserin struggles with 5 AM wake-up calls sabotaged by six-year-olds and structural uncertainties that leave her cursor blinking like a silent judge. The friends trade confessions about missed goals, with Kelton celebrating her modest 700 words amid sleepless nights, and Krisserin admitting defeat against her ambitious three-part to-do list. They explore how money worries, family demands, and self-doubt conspire against creativity, exchanging strategies from Kelton's desperate burpees to Krisserin's garage sanctuary. Through their characteristic mix of commiseration and tough love, the pair reveal that sometimes the biggest distraction isn't a tiny hand stealing your writing time - it's the voice in your head telling you your work isn't good enough to continue.
Get in contact with us at: officialpenpalspod@gmail.com
Music by Golden Hour Oasis Studios
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Novel Journey
00:00:00
Speaker
What are we talking about? ah Distractions. We're talking about distractions. Clearly I am quite distracted this morning. I'm Chris-Aaron Canary. And I'm Kelton Wright.
00:00:14
Speaker
Follow our quest to publish our first novels. From first drops to query letters. Through inevitable rejection. And hopefully eventual success. From California to Colorado. is Pen Pals.
00:00:26
Speaker
How are you Chris-Aaron? You know, I've had better weeks. I'm doing okay. I'm very tired today. I went to ah ah concert last night. Wow, fun.
00:00:38
Speaker
And I had every intention of waking up at 5 a.m. m this morning, even though I went to bed past midnight. But my youngest daughter got up at 4. So I was like, never mind. I'm going back to bed.
00:00:50
Speaker
What's the point? She's not going to let me write. she became her grandparents' problem in the morning, and I slept until 6.30. What a dream. Yeah. Until 6.30, that's the dream?
00:01:02
Speaker
ah Yeah, yeah. Not last night, of the night before ah that, I slept three hours. We've been having a ah really rough digestive week with the baby.
00:01:14
Speaker
No surprise, but he's starting solid, so his whole system is jacked, and he's just like, I don't know how to make poop. I don't know how to fart. I don't know how this works anymore,
00:01:25
Speaker
so Yeah, we didn't get a lot of sleep this week. And you can presume i didn't get a lot of writing done.
Balancing Writing and Parenting
00:01:32
Speaker
Remind me what are, I see I'm so distracted. I have completely forgotten your goals for last week, but I have them written down because someone is organized.
00:01:41
Speaker
That someone is Kelton. Three hours and 1,600 words. How did you do? I got two hours and 700 words. Yeah, so I'm happy that anything got done.
00:01:54
Speaker
But it's been a rough couple weeks with that baby. I'm really looking forward to this phase of growth being over so that we can focus a little on mom's growth. Mom needs to grow.
00:02:10
Speaker
Well, I hate to tell you this. Don't tell me. Don't tell me. Okay. Listen, you've written three books with your two children. So don't tell me. I wrote one book way before I was a mom.
00:02:24
Speaker
I wrote or the first draft of the book I'm working on right now before I had my first child. And then I didn't write the third book until my second child was five. so ah Jesus Christ.
00:02:38
Speaker
All right, well, this is good context. I mean, look, I'm happy I got anything done. i do think that the two-tiered approach of dedicating hours and having a word count helped me get work done in the way that makes me feel productive.
00:02:53
Speaker
I was forced to schedule the time. That was good. And then instead of noodling, i actually got some words out. So I was satisfied. And now I want to hear about how you did.
00:03:05
Speaker
And I did write these down. You wanted your 5 a.m. wake ups. You wanted to map out the end of the big book. And you wanted to figure out what you were doing with your MFA applications. Overachiever.
00:03:18
Speaker
How did all of those goals go for you?
Struggles with Writing and Time Management
00:03:22
Speaker
Not well.
00:03:27
Speaker
I hate that my first reaction was good. I've ah been editing these podcast episodes and I distinctly remember you saying, that's a lot last week.
00:03:42
Speaker
And it was a lot. You were right. i was naively optimistic and optimistic. and It was a lot harder this week to wake up. I feel like when i don't know what I'm waking up to write, when I don't have an open-ended problem that I know I'm going to be tackling, it's almost impossible to get out of bed knowing that I'm going to sit in front of my computer and not know what I'm doing.
00:04:06
Speaker
It's a complete failure of the Amy Bender method of just sitting with your book for two hours every morning because i would rather sleep than sit in front of a blank page. I failed on that second count of mapping out the end of the book. I think I figured out some pieces of it this week, but I was really, feel like I've been really hard on myself in the drafting of this first draft.
00:04:26
Speaker
And again, putting on myself the sense of urgency that I need to get it done that I don't think is actually helping me produce my best work.
00:04:39
Speaker
I was thinking about it last night and I feel like I have been just trying to get the beats down and I'm losing my weirdness in the, you know, I'm losing my weirdness in the process of that. And I feel like the voice that I want the character to have and the things that will make my story powerful, i'm completely confused.
00:05:05
Speaker
not putting enough attention on. So i failed at waking up at 5am. I think I woke up two out of the five mornings this week. I did not map out the end of the book. I got pieces of ideas of things that I want to write. And then i honestly don't know about MFA applications. I'm feeling very discouraged right now.
00:05:29
Speaker
I don't feel like I'm in a mental place to make a decision about it. I really like the classes that I'm taking now. And with Harvard extension, they have earn your way in model where you take two classes and then you apply. And if you do well in those classes and you can get recommendations from your professors, they'll admit you into the graduate program.
00:05:50
Speaker
But I don't know if it's something that I want to pursue or if I want to go more traditional route with a low residency MFA program. I'd have to ask people to write letters of recommendation for me. And I've done it before. And I feel like every time I go out to my network and ask something, whether it's from a past teacher a workshop leader.
00:06:12
Speaker
and feel like you're you're spending a little bit of your capital that you have with them because you can only ask them for so much before it feels a little cringy to continue to go back to them.
00:06:25
Speaker
yeah Are you applying to any of the same programs? No, I'm looking at different programs this time. but I'm overall having a lot of like insecurity right now about my writing and my writing ability and imposter syndrome and all of that. So I'm trying to just divorce my ego a little bit, focus more on the work and trying to put things on the page that feel genuine and authentic to me that I can be excited about and have a little bit of, like I said, my weirdness in it because I feel like I'm losing that.
00:06:59
Speaker
When I focus on just trying to get stuff down on the page, I feel like a bit of a fraud. but I've been really hard on myself this week. I need to be more yeah gentle with myself, but I've been having self-defeating thoughts, which i feel like a lot of authors do. I think sometimes we think we are brilliant and ah you know sometimes we think we're A total fake.
00:07:25
Speaker
At least I do. go through these emotional ups and downs of feeling great one day and feeling like a complete fraud the next. I mean, you're supposed to be saving these thoughts to bludgeon me with.
00:07:38
Speaker
You should be gentle and clear yourself. I'm the one who wants to be told but they're a problem. So anytime your brain goes, Chris Aaron, you little fraud, you should just text it directly to me.
00:07:53
Speaker
Kelton, you're a fraud. You're never going to make it. I do think that even though you didn't accomplish all of these goals this week, it does sound like some of them were clarifying. And I do also think when we end up in that land of insecurity,
00:08:08
Speaker
Like in our hero's journey to publishing, like we've got to have those ups and downs in order for our own journeys to be compelling enough to write these stories. So like you're kind of caught in a bog right now and you have to figure out how to get out of the bog.
00:08:23
Speaker
And that'll be the next chapter
Dealing with Distractions
00:08:25
Speaker
of your life while you work on the chapter your book. It was great to have the seasons when you're like, I'm fucking killing it. But I also think it's useful to step back and be like, wait a second.
00:08:37
Speaker
What am I doing? Do I even want to go to these um MFA programs? Like, did my book need that component in the final chapter? Or was I just trying to tie a bow? So I'm proud of you.
00:08:50
Speaker
That's the type of parenting I liked. and like this idea of literary side quests. One does not simply walk into a publishing deal.
00:09:02
Speaker
Exactly. you That is exactly what I was picturing too. I was like, how do I not say Lord of the Rings out loud?
00:09:12
Speaker
Right now I'm just chilling with Smeagol, you know? and My precious novel. Exactly. All right. We got to talk about what's happening this week. So this week we're supposed to talk about distractions.
00:09:26
Speaker
I think we are talking about two tiers of distractions too. So there are the distractions that take you away from your writing. And then there are the distractions you have in your writing.
00:09:40
Speaker
um Let's start with the ones you have out of your writing. Cause I feel like those are, they're kind of easy and they're universal. What, when you are trying to write, distracts you the most?
00:09:53
Speaker
Oh God, I mean, Anything that I'm willing to give attention to, you know, i forget where the quote came from, but there was some quote that some author, or female woman author wrote about housework and writing and how if you are ah ah a woman who wants to focus on cleaning the house first, you're never going to get to your novel. But for me, i try to put myself in a mode where i cannot be distracted.
00:10:23
Speaker
When I'm in the garage and I have my headphones on and it's early in the morning and I'm in my tunnel view, i do pretty well. But then my mother-in-law will come in the garage and, you know, she's like a little worker bee in the morning. She does more before 8 a.m. than i do at a day, I think. She's cooked whatever lunch is going to be for the day. She's vacuumed the house. She's on her second load of laundry, you know.
00:10:47
Speaker
So I try and just stay in my little zone. But um for me, a lot of the time, it's just the kids coming in and wanting attention. And I will be mid sentence, and they'll burst in. And then it takes me a whole couple minutes to get back to what I was trying to put down on paper.
00:11:05
Speaker
But I've you know I think you have to create a safe space for your writing and find what works for you so that you can protect your mental space while you're trying to put words on the page.
00:11:19
Speaker
But given the opportunity, I'll let anything distract me. Anything. Anything. Ben and I have joked about buying one of those on-air signs, not for the baby or for children, but just because Ben can't resist talking to me, which I think is a sign of true love.
00:11:39
Speaker
But if I am upstairs in the open loft working at my desk and Ben has something he wants to talk to me about, he will just ask it. even though I'm deep in whatever I'm doing.
00:11:51
Speaker
And then I'm like, oh, I don't want to think about this question. But then it's rude to just ignore him. And so i was like, I need one of those radio on air signs just so he can glance up and be like, ah, she's in she's in thinking work.
00:12:05
Speaker
And I would only turn it on when I'm like in the zone, you know? Oh, I'm happy to be interrupted. I love an interruption, but ah ah my work doesn't.
00:12:17
Speaker
So yeah, I'm in the market for an on-air sign. I think going somewhere could be cool. You can't go anywhere. It's your, it's, it's, there's a blizzard at your house right now, but sometimes going to the library or finding a quiet space where you can't be interrupted is, is a good strategy too. But you know, what's most interrupting is the world, your phone, text messages, social media notifications, even though I deleted most of my social media apps from my phone, I still have Instagram.
00:12:47
Speaker
So my phone's very distracting. um But yeah, I try, what I try and do is I put Scrivener in the like full screen mode and I put on my other screen, Spotify, whatever music I'm listening to. And I make like a, a window into my book that I try and focus in on and and not let the rest of the world impinge on it and headphones on have just complete focus as much as I possibly can. But it's hard when you live with other people. What are you going to do Where's Ben going to go?
00:13:21
Speaker
Well, he's in the basement right now. i can just vaguely hear the baby cry. And I'm like, no don't listen. Don't listen to that baby. He is fed. he has changed.
00:13:32
Speaker
He is with his papa. It is not your problem. Focus on where you are. But he, you know, now he's he's my biggest distraction now.
00:13:43
Speaker
Before him, I loved going to the library, but I think I've addressed before that he's a snacker and i am his refrigerator. So I can't be away from him for more than like an hour and a half.
00:13:56
Speaker
And it takes a half an hour to get to the library. So I'm i'm not going to like drive there and be like 20 minutes, let's bang them out. It's I can find 20 minutes at home. I haven't, but I could.
00:14:07
Speaker
But he is my big distraction. i do look back at my pregnancy. I got laid off four months into my pregnancy. And I am sort of like, why wasn't I like bulldozing on this book then?
00:14:22
Speaker
and then I have to like read the journal I wrote during my pregnancy. And it's like, ah, yes. because I felt like death every day. i didn't glow, i didn't shine, i didn't feel connected to Mother Earth.
00:14:35
Speaker
I just felt like I was getting run over repeatedly, which is not great writing conditions. Yeah, I mean, I think your health has a huge impact on your capacity to write.
00:14:46
Speaker
I was super sick in December, but even if I'm just on my period and feeling miserable, i don't want to sit down and write. My body is just radiating with pain. there's yeah It's really difficult to be in your head when your body is just reminding you of your corporality. Yeah.
00:15:05
Speaker
I have to say my biggest distraction outside of writing is money. I will let myself get pulled away from my creative pursuits over and over again to make money.
00:15:17
Speaker
So i did that this week. I said yes to two new clients. They're both temporary. They're not retainer clients. So I'll be done with both of these projects by early April. But it it does make writing in the book for the next two months kind of challenging because that now is for clients and the newsletter and this podcast that and life.
00:15:42
Speaker
So thinking about how to organize those and when a novel fits in, it really does feel like I'm trying to stuff a novel into a 50 pound bag while it's on the the weight at the airport.
00:15:54
Speaker
And I'm just like, I promise this novel is like half a pound. And they're like, this novel seems like it's like your whole existence, like maybe 6,000 pounds. And I'm like, just put it in the bag.
00:16:09
Speaker
So, ah but you know, we need the money. Like I got laid off in my pregnancy. I got two gigs that were temporary around months five and six of my pregnancy and then didn't work then until through the fourth trimester.
00:16:24
Speaker
And so we depleted our savings and cause I had an unconventional job. And so I didn't have any state or federal protections when I got laid off and we had to use all the money we had. And so now I have to,
00:16:37
Speaker
to make that money again. So, and it just feels like right now, every month, it's like, oh, by the way, you need new tires. No, by the way, the plumber's coming again. And oh, by the way, did you realize this was going to be $2,000? And you're like, oh, gut me like a fish.
00:16:56
Speaker
Christ. um So i'm I'm saying yes to money. But I think I'm making a good case for why I'm saying yes to it now. But it has that has always been the case. Even when I have had a full savings account and feel really comfortable about my trajectory, i will always say yes to more money over creativity.
00:17:14
Speaker
And you know I'd love to be like, that's because I'm a Capricorn. because But it's because I have a scarcity mindset. And that's something I'm working on all the time. not only in my like financial life, but in my writing life, I want to have an abundance mindset where I'm just kind of like, you have a lot of ideas.
00:17:32
Speaker
You have a lot of good things to say, like dedicate your time to it and relax, but it's hard work. And it's hard work that I am doing with my therapist.
00:17:44
Speaker
All we talk about, I'm not kidding. All we talk about right now is my book. That's great. Yeah. It's been really lovely. She, the other week, waved a novel at me. We meet via Zoom.
00:17:57
Speaker
And she's like, do you know what this is? Do you know what this is? And i was like, a book? She's like, this is a book that another client of mine wrote. Do you know whose book this should be?
00:18:09
Speaker
This should be your book. This book isn't even very good. it was traditionally published. Yes, she said that. Yes. I mean, obviously I couldn't see who wrote the book. She's respecting her her client's privacy. But I was just like, damn it. I really do need to write this book.
00:18:26
Speaker
If my therapist is the... She is actually... She's my best disappointed dad. She comes for me so hard. That's why I love her so much. The best advice she ever gave me, because I originally went to her when I was too afraid to get on an airplane.
00:18:43
Speaker
She was like, do you really think you're so special that it's going to be your plane that goes down? And I was like, oh, wow. Wow. Read me like a query. That took you 30 seconds.
00:19:00
Speaker
Wow. I love and fear Donna. She's the best. I so relate to your money thing. So i'm my husband's an immigrant and he also has a scarcity mindset.
00:19:12
Speaker
And my career has been the biggest impediment to my ability to write. All of the times in my life that I have made progress in my writing It's either been in spite of my career or because I was temporarily unemployed.
00:19:30
Speaker
And it's not just the time. It's the mental capacity, right? I have a spouse who works like a dog. He is workaholic. He has that scarcity mindset. He is an immigrant, so he has that work ethic.
00:19:45
Speaker
And I don't feel like it's fair for me, however true this may or may not be, to put all of the pressure on him. to earn money for the household. And we're also young.
00:19:58
Speaker
i consider myself at 40 to be young. This is the time that we have to make money because we have limited amount of years left before we hopefully retire.
00:20:10
Speaker
now is the time to be productive. This is the summer of our lives. If I was going to use the wheel of the year, this is the summer of our lives. This is when we're meant to produce work. And we're also doing other things like fostering life whether it's a baby or a six and 11 year old, we have all of these other responsibilities ah to our household. So it is hard to carve out that time, that distraction free time for ourselves. But I think that actually we're really lucky as writers that we have this thing that we can turn to, to say, I'm going to dedicate this time to me stay
00:20:47
Speaker
and something that gives me joy and fulfillment outside of my family and my job and all of these other things, because, you know, not everyone has a creative pursuit or they don't have a hobby and they, they go to work and they help their family and they sit on the couch at the end of the day and watch TV. And that's definitely been me, but I've always felt like something was missing when I didn't have my writing and my mental wellbeing wasn't as exactly as healthy as it is now, even though i have other
Protecting Creative Time
00:21:18
Speaker
stressors. So I think we're blessed in a way to have this thing that we can call our own.
00:21:23
Speaker
And because it is so precious, we have to fight for it. And we have to fight off the distractions of the world because they ah capitalist society is going to steal your best hours.
00:21:35
Speaker
It's going to want to do that for itself. And we have to keep them for for our own pursuits. That is the the lesson of fight the man by just being out there doing your craft. I mean, I think that applies to anybody with the, you know, the arts and hobbies and athleticism. That's like, I want to go be doing this thing that fulfills me.
00:21:54
Speaker
and it's tough when you're like, but I got a few hours of sleep last night and I need to write this thought leadership piece for this company I work for and the baby's crying. And you're like, actually, what would feel so good is to just melt myself into the chair a little with endless stream of videos of raccoons.
00:22:15
Speaker
And there you are just deep in the explore page, looking at their tiny little hands, taking like a scoop of cat food. And you're like, this is the good life. And then you look around and you're like, what am I doing?
00:22:26
Speaker
What am I doing? Where am How did this happen? Put down the phone. You go on the explore page on Instagram. Hell yeah. I mean, you know what? i I'm looking for some inspiration, okay? And I'm not getting it seeing people's vacation pictures.
00:22:43
Speaker
I don't feel inspired seeing like all the old friends I had hanging out with each other when I moved away to the middle of nowhere. Like Instagram as a connection function, I love DMing people, but I don't love just scrolling through other people's lives. It makes me feel really disconnected from them.
00:23:00
Speaker
And i I know the original point was to feel more connected, but that it doesn't work that way for me. i don't have any notifications on other than one that tells me your baby might want to fall asleep soon.
00:23:14
Speaker
That notification I do leave on. Yeah. was like, have you considered he might be cranky because he is sleepy? I'm like, oh, yes. Thank you, device. What a joy you are.
00:23:25
Speaker
i leave my phone on do not disturb almost all day because really the only people texting me are you and my mother and my mother-in-law who are like, baby? Baby now?
00:23:36
Speaker
How about baby now? and I'm like, will baby you later.
00:23:41
Speaker
oh I am unlimited on the distractions on the phone, but work and house, you know, I think the house one is huge. I could clean this house all day. You know, it's very porous.
00:23:52
Speaker
It's constantly dusty. There's snow coming in multiple windows right now. There's a lot to be done. on fixing this house, including building out a wall that separates my desk into an actual office space.
00:24:07
Speaker
That is going to be huge for me. I'm so excited for that. I keep telling myself that is when I will get real work done. and that I know is ah falsehood just coated in icing.
00:24:20
Speaker
I did have the thought of a writer's shed for you. i was thinking Kelton needs a shed. She needs somewhere where she can go and close the door. And, you know, but people still find you. They're still going to find you. They'll find me, but I'll have a moment, you know, I'll have that moment where I can sense them coming without having to engage with them. They'll have to open the door.
00:24:47
Speaker
Oh, I mean, i would like put locks on the door and I get, mom, mom, why is the door locked? I'm hungry.
00:24:57
Speaker
Sabine did this to me. ah yeah. okay I didn't mean to judge you about your Instagram explore page. I was horrible. I don't feel judged.
00:25:09
Speaker
I don't feel judged. I'll let you know. i feel like I have spent many a joyful hour. I'll tell you a few of the categories, of things I like to look at. I like to look at complex hairstyling.
00:25:22
Speaker
I love to watch little girls getting their hair braided. Because I'm always looking at, it's mainly little girls getting their hair braided. It's not a lot of adults who are doing complex hair braiding, unless you get deep into like Viking cosplay.
00:25:33
Speaker
I love watching deep sea maritime videos, you know, with the huge ships. I love watching like ice fishing. ah And then ah ah any category of animals, like raccoons doing stuff, obviously I have said is wonderful.
00:25:49
Speaker
I love watching videos of cats and dogs, fuck up kids. like just knocking them over in the yard. Top 10 for me. Love that so much. I will fall down like a slippery slope of girls changing their eyebrows.
00:26:04
Speaker
So obviously there's a lot of ways that I fall down really, really steep, muddy slope into the abyss. But lately, yeah lately I haven't. and And that's for like a moral ethical reason. I just decided that I'm like, I'm not spending time with these billionaires anymore.
00:26:23
Speaker
I do post our reels for this podcast, but aside from that, I don't want to spend time there. Yeah, we deputized Kelton as the social media manager for Pen Pal's podcast because she's better at it than I. But I was the same. i would spend hours disassociating on TikTok. But after TikTok was getting shut down and all the notifications that they were posting, i was over it. And I deleted it from my phone. And then I tried to download it again. And I can't, which is probably a good thing. But I definitely used to spend a lot of time.
00:26:57
Speaker
on my phone and I replaced it with some stupid games that I go on and off playing and haven't really been spending a lot of time doing now, but phone is a huge distraction. i will say the podcast has been ah bit of a distraction for me. i And it's not the time spent recording it. It's not the time spent editing it. It's just the reaction of the podcast in the world that is definitely distracting me because I am such a terrified little girl inside of me when it comes to social media. i have a private Instagram account and you have a lot of followers.
00:27:34
Speaker
And so when we created the pen pals Instagram account and I have it now on my phone and I'm getting all these notifications every time you post a reel, I'm like, ah, just a little bit like your reel got a thousand views. of like, Oh Lord.
00:27:50
Speaker
That's funny. I'm like, are when I see our reel got a thousand views, I'm like, oh, I'm still shadow banned. No one is seeing this.
00:28:00
Speaker
A thousand people to me is like a bad metric. I think, I don't think I have a thousand followers on Instagram. I definitely don't. That is on purpose. I will call my followers list. I'm like, I don't know who you are.
00:28:12
Speaker
If I forget these people, and because I post pictures of my kids and stuff, you know, so I'm trying to keep my circle small, but it is you know, a little scary.
00:28:24
Speaker
i don't know how you do it being, you are a public figure, Kelton, right? And so barely, well, i I was talking to my mom, Kanette about our podcast, cause she's our number one fan.
00:28:37
Speaker
And she's like, yeah, Kelton's like this larger than life personality. oh God. Oh Lord. I mean, I do think we need to remember that I went into writing from the performance angle.
00:28:50
Speaker
Like I am a um natural performer. I love being on stage. I love public speaking. Like it's all an extension of that. And there you know obviously there are downsides to that, but I do limited posts of my child and the rest is like, who cares you see a photo of my cat?
00:29:10
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, i also love performing, but I'm, I guess I used to think I was an extrovert, but I think I'm aging into introvertedness, but I loved theater and love plays and love being on stage. And I love speaking also, but it takes a lot out of me. Like I get very, like have physical bodily reactions to doing it. And I go into a completely different place when I am performing and I haven't done it a really long time.
00:29:39
Speaker
I have this fantasy world. of being a 60 year old lady doing community theater somewhere. I can't do it in LA because and be competing against real actors.
00:29:51
Speaker
I would love to move to a small town and like put on a production of a play somewhere. And, you know, maybe I could be like Martha and who's afraid of Virginia Woolf or something, you know, these old lady roles. They get all the good roles anyway. All the best roles are for these, you know, older women someday.
00:30:09
Speaker
I've never had an aspiration to be an ingenue, but I do like theater. I took playwriting classes. I love going to plays. So someday. I tried to join a choir here and had to quit because they didn't take it seriously enough.
00:30:24
Speaker
Okay. When I walked in, i was, you know, he was like, so what do you think? Are you an alto or a soprano? And I was like, you're not gonna... audition me?
00:30:36
Speaker
People just choose what section they're in? Like, I'm sorry. And I couldn't handle it. It was driving me crazy. i was like, i we either take this seriously or I'm not doing it. And they were like, this is a community choir, babe, in a small town. are you showing and I was like, not for me.
00:30:56
Speaker
But you know, what a joy to know myself so well. God, we need to talk about our distractions in writing. Yeah, this has been a ah bit of a distracting conversation.
00:31:09
Speaker
We're like, like this on TikTok.
00:31:15
Speaker
What are your biggest distractions in your writing? So the things that drive you away from your goals while you're doing it?
Maintaining Structure in Writing
00:31:25
Speaker
I think for me, the hardest thing has been structure. And also trying to figure out, no, it's structure. it is 100% structure. the The book that I'm writing right now has three different storylines in it and figuring out how to weave the story in a way that drives the story forward and keeps the reader engaged is really difficult. And I write linearly. write
00:31:57
Speaker
have a natural feel for how I want the story to go. And a lot of the times it serves me really well, because I will hear how I want a chapter to close and have an image and a voice in my head of how I want the next one to open. And I can feel the way that I want to carry the reader through the story.
00:32:18
Speaker
But I don't feel like I have the technical skills or the tools in my literary toolbox to know how to effectively input these different sections into the book.
00:32:32
Speaker
And instead of writing the scenes and figuring it out later, and maybe I know people use note cards and they'll put them on the wall and move things around. I want to feel the story. And this week, that was the struggle that I was having was I am writing up to the climax of my novel.
00:32:52
Speaker
And I'm trying to figure out how to get this really big scene from the past into the story in a natural way and really struggling.
00:33:04
Speaker
i just feel like these are things that you learn It's not something that is super intuitive unless you are really well read and you are dissecting books in a way that a writer or should when they read. But I just feel like I'm getting really hung up on structure.
00:33:25
Speaker
and It happened the first time I wrote this draft of the novel, same problem. And I thought, you know, I think I said at the beginning, and when we first started recording this podcast, I'm a better writer now.
00:33:36
Speaker
i have more tools in my toolbox. I'm full of shit is what I am because I still am struggling with this one problem. It is stopping me from progressing full. Like I am sitting there with the cursor blinking on the page, really unsure of how to move forward.
00:33:53
Speaker
And that was when I said last week, I wanted to map out the end of the book. That's what I meant. And I made very little if no progress on it. The books I've written in the past were linear.
00:34:05
Speaker
And i feel like when you're writing things that require flashbacks, or you're really trying to have interesting ways of moving the plot forward and you have information that you learn at the end that informs the beginning and all of those really, those lovely things that authors do that you walk away from a book going, wow, that was so smart.
00:34:27
Speaker
don't have those skills. So that's where I'm falling down right now. That's my biggest hurdle because I want it to feel natural when I'm writing. I get a little bit intimidated writing.
00:34:42
Speaker
structure and how to really figure out when to, when the reader needs to know what. Yeah. I mean, woof, what a complicated problem in my head. That's like an editor's problem.
00:34:58
Speaker
I'm like, they're going to find a way to make this make more sense and to like, be like, you should introduce this concept here. And this one actually makes more sense here. i know that's not fully true. Like you need to present to an editor a good book. And so those things need to be layered in.
00:35:12
Speaker
But I mean, i do leave myself just like notes in my writing where I'm like, figure out where this goes later. i am less structure bound, especially because i haven't written a book like this before, a fiction book.
00:35:26
Speaker
And so I'm like, of course, I don't know about structure. So I'm not going to worry about it. but I'll deal with all of that later and think about where these cards lay out on the table. My biggest issue is tiny, tiny bullshit.
00:35:41
Speaker
Like I will be writing about a character and I will be like, Okay, so if this character got here in this year, what country does that mean they would probably be from if they were pursuing this type of mining?
00:35:56
Speaker
And if they were mining in this area, what kind of ore would they be looking for? So let's say that they're Norwegian. What was a popular Norwegian name in the year that they were born if they immigrated here in this year? Like, I am just...
00:36:11
Speaker
i I am like pulling one dandelion out at a time, you know, just yanking and yanking and yanking and like not realizing that like dandelions are going to proliferate. Like I'm better to either just leave them all and deal with it later or just take out a my like my natural eco friendly pet friendly dandelion killer.
00:36:34
Speaker
And spray it all over them and move on. But I just get so tied up in the minutiae. There is magic in the book that I am writing. And so obviously you need to have a really firm grasp of your magic system.
00:36:49
Speaker
And I do have a good grasp on the system, but I keep being like, well, what if the spell was written this way? What if it had these words? And like, what happens when someone does this?
00:37:01
Speaker
Can they eat? Where do they get their water? Like, how are would do they have septic systems in this town? And then I'm just like, what am I doing? And so that is one of the reasons that for this podcast, I've been so focused on word count and not thinking about my book because I could think about my book all day, every day in all kinds of very detailed ways and accomplish nothing.
00:37:30
Speaker
So like if I don't get some words out on the page and just like leave a note that it's like, it doesn't fucking matter, Kelton, if he's Italian or Norwegian or German or Moroccan, come back to it when it matters.
00:37:41
Speaker
He's just having a conversation about the snow right now. Relax. obviously, I guess we really wound up to even talk about it. But this has been a problem for me for decades in my writing.
00:37:52
Speaker
So ah I get distracted. i mean, that's the fun of researching your novel too, right? ah Imagine a world when your book is published, and you've got these people online arguing about the magic system in your book.
00:38:10
Speaker
Like, That wouldn't be possible because everybody knows. i mean, what a dream. Yeah. I mean, i I definitely, I think that the research part of a book is really fun. i think that that stuff's really fun to think about and maybe giving yourself a limited amount of time that is not your writing time to do that. Maybe instead of looking at trash pandas eating cat food,
00:38:34
Speaker
You could spend some time on Ancestry.com and see some ship records or from from Norway in whatever a year your character comes to the United States. But I guess I am judging your explore You are deeply.
00:38:50
Speaker
i mean, I haven't been on there in a long time. um But listen, I can explore Paige and do all this research. I am a very talented person. I agree. No, I'm just I'm just giving you a hard time. You said you wanted me to disappoint dad. I know. Every time you open up your explore page, just think Sarah is going to give me shit for this.
00:39:10
Speaker
I know. um I'll send you text messages at 5 a.m. saying that you're writing, and I'm going to start sending you the worst of what I find on my Explore page. bro That'll get so distracted.
00:39:22
Speaker
ah ah want to look at it. i I don't have TikTok on my phone for a reason, besides the the political ones, but I would spend... ah You know, you get your activity report from certain apps. They'd be like, you spent five hours this app today.
00:39:38
Speaker
It's like, oh my God. Yeah, I think that that is a fun thing to get caught up on and definitely informs your book. I can understand how it would be very distracting though.
00:39:50
Speaker
I get there too. In the speculative fiction novel that I wrote, it took place in places in the world that I'd never been. And so I would go to YouTube and watch street walkthroughs of towns that I'd never been to so I could see what the streets looked like and hear what the sounds sounded like and Google map.
00:40:14
Speaker
google map neighborhoods where they would walk through and see what the buildings look like, how they were painted, how the paint had chipped from them, you know, just to understand.
00:40:26
Speaker
And hopefully I'll be able to go to these places. My plan is to travel to these places, both Manila and um Taiwan, but it is very easy to get lost in those things. But also it's world building. It's fun.
00:40:39
Speaker
Writing is supposed to be fun. So yeah i think it's I mean, yes, I agree. But I have not been having fun when I do that. When I'm having fun, it's like when I'm trying to figure out what the initial spell is, that was fun.
00:40:55
Speaker
But when I keep coming back to the spell again and again, when I'm supposed to be writing, then I'm like, what are you doing? Like make a note. You've got to come back to the spell to finesse it But do the writing.
00:41:09
Speaker
Write the book. And like just call the character Sam. Just do a good old control F replace when you have the right name instead of being like, well, I know I have an hour to write right now.
00:41:21
Speaker
So why don't I spend 45 minutes of it Googling men? You know, like who would I cast as this character? Maybe that will help me describe their physicality better. It's like, nah, babe, do the writing.
00:41:35
Speaker
But that does help you. It helps you it sounds like it helps you. It does not help me. Um, so, you know, I, the only reason I am so firm in my thinking around this is because this is an area, Donna and I talk about a lot in therapy where she's just like, I know what your systems are to like, allow yourself to not do the work.
00:41:58
Speaker
And this is one of them because you get to call it work. You get to label it as, well, I did work on it. And she's like, but you've been doing like, I did work on it forever.
00:42:10
Speaker
So like, show me something. You can't show me your, your pages and pages of research. No one's paying for that. Maybe someday they will. This is where your word count fixation comes in, I guess, is because you want to have, that makes sense.
00:42:28
Speaker
Um, so what are your methods and strategies to avoid distraction?
Strategies for Overcoming Distractions
00:42:37
Speaker
Um, One is to, and this is easier said than done, allow bad writing. Like for this book, I am really allowing the first draft to be bad.
00:42:50
Speaker
With my essay writing, I'm editing as I go. you know, as we discussed, I don't like do a wholesale edit afterwards. I'm sort of like fixing the sentences mid-sentence.
00:43:03
Speaker
And I don't do that with the novel. I'm like, you're mapping out a plot point here. Like you can come back and and add in ah more accurate analogy for how the floorboard sounded under her feet. Like, don't worry about it right now. Just say that they were creaky as shit and come back.
00:43:22
Speaker
And like, you know, what a joy if my novel ends up just being like, those floorboards were creaky as shit. That's not how my characters sound. So I am letting the sentences be bad.
00:43:35
Speaker
When I notice I'm doing it, I leave a note in Scrivener. I just leave a comment on the side of that piece. And I'm like, you know, figure out later if this character is Norwegian or German.
00:43:48
Speaker
And then i leave it because I feel like part of my obsession is like, you're going to forget. You're not going to remember this. So then I'm like, just leave yourself a note about it in the document. And I'm worried about that later.
00:44:00
Speaker
ah And lastly, if things get really desperate, I step away from my desk and I do burpees. Burpees. Yeah, i I do burpees. I think a little Self-inflicted torture is really important at times. It like rewires my brain.
00:44:18
Speaker
It gets me to like fake whatever is, because obviously the reason I am turning to this weed pulling stage is there's like some insecurity, some fear that is pushing me away from doing the writing itself.
00:44:34
Speaker
I don't know if that's always fear of failure or just fear of not knowing how to do it or or what it is, but it's some kind of fear. And so the best way I know how to manage any fear is to move my body.
00:44:47
Speaker
And so that is my last recourse, pushups, burpees. I don't find squats that challenging since having a baby. So those are out, but... Yeah, anything that requires using my arms will wear me out enough to get back to typing.
00:45:03
Speaker
Physical torture. Physical torture. that That is what works for me. Shame and physical torture.
00:45:12
Speaker
Like a true Capricorn. You sound like the heroine in a ah smutty novel I've read, but that's okay.
00:45:22
Speaker
Yeah.
00:45:25
Speaker
Man, I don't know how to overcome my block, to be honest with you, with this book. I feel like when I've tried to outline, i get really stuck and maybe I just need to go and read some sections on structure and figure out maybe there's a way I can map out the story and just focus on writing the scenes and not get fixated on feeling my way through.
00:45:53
Speaker
like That's kind of how I inspire myself to write the next sections is being able to write them how the reader is going to read them. I feel like when I piece things together afterwards, the transitions feel not as smooth and I have to figure out how I can like,
00:46:11
Speaker
sand over those rough edges. And i don't like doing that. I'm holding myself back from something that I know I would have to do in the future that I don't like to do. It's all self-defeating. It's all just stopping myself from progression.
00:46:26
Speaker
So, I mean, maybe this is a good transition into next week's goals, but I do want i i do want to figure out how to map out, again, map out these next few scenes that I can push forward.
Weekly Writing Goals
00:46:42
Speaker
And maybe I'll take a little bit of um Kelton healthlton juice and put a word count goal on it as well. I think that we should try assigning each other like one additional small goal on top of the goals we set for ourselves.
00:47:00
Speaker
Okay. I'm going to suggest you take some time. in your allotted time of the week to just read about how other authors you respect approach to structure and think then about how you can incorporate what they say. If they say something super unuseful, ah write it down on a piece of paper and burn it.
00:47:21
Speaker
If someone is like, oh, structure just comes naturally and like I write one scene after the other and they all make sense, then you should write that theory down on a piece of paper and burn it because it doesn't work for you.
00:47:34
Speaker
I'm not going to burn anything in Southern California right now, but i will like rip it up into tiny little pieces and throw it away in the trash. Okay. You could, like them yeah, you could just soak it in water and turn it into compost.
00:47:48
Speaker
Yeah. Chris Aaron's making fiddly fingers on screen. Yes. Yes. That's exactly what I imagine you doing. um Okay. So tell me what goals do you want to accomplish this week?
00:48:01
Speaker
Yeah, I think really for me, um maybe it is an outline. Maybe I need to figure out an outline for the end of my book. i In writing, visible outline of scenes and beats and um chapters for the end of the book.
00:48:19
Speaker
And I like your goal. I will happily add it to my list of reading how certain writers approach structure. There was a book that was assigned reading in my last class. I think it's called Wonder Book by Paul Vandermeer. And he has all these really crazy illustrations of different types of structures. So I'll go and revisit that.
00:48:44
Speaker
And there was also another book on structure that was recommended to me recently that I will pull out and take a look at. But i feel like I just need guidance there. I need yeah what I have to do is helpful. I just need to know what I'm working on before I go to bed. So that while I'm laying in bed, falling asleep in my head, I'm thinking tomorrow I'm going to write this scene. If I have that, then I can get up.
00:49:11
Speaker
That's the motivation I need to get out of bed. Amazing. How about you? My parents are coming on Sunday. As illustrated by this previous in-law visit, I do not have high hopes that the baby will allow himself to be taken care of by anyone but me.
00:49:31
Speaker
But in advance of their visit, I am making them a chore list um of things that they can do anytime they're here to help out and make my life easier in the hopes that allows me to have more expansive space around writing.
00:49:46
Speaker
I'm doing a little advanced work to to get things out of my way. And that's not like, oh, I wish I could wash the windows. It's like, I actually do need someone to clean the litter box every day.
00:49:58
Speaker
And since we have three cats and three litter boxes, that is a real chore. And so telling my mom, like, can you please clean the litter box every day does open up every day, 10 15 minutes for me.
00:50:11
Speaker
for me I'm trying to map out what those chores are that can actually have time impact. I will be using your suggestion of time allocation. I did like that as a mix with my word count goals.
00:50:26
Speaker
I am hoping that the child feels better this week and that we sleep a little more. One thing I did find useful was after he falls asleep is just having my laptop in bed with us and then cranking it open and doing 45 minutes after he's knocked out and then I fall asleep.
00:50:45
Speaker
So going to bring my laptop to bed every night. I'm going to make a chore list for my parents. I'm going to stick with three hours and 1500 words and just see if I can accomplish them and start proving to myself that like a scheduling like this will work.
00:51:03
Speaker
Okay. I have two questions for you. Yes. First question. susan theres no. Okay.
00:51:11
Speaker
I'm trying to figure out how to ask this in a way that doesn't make me sound heartless. so Be heartless. We're very good friends. Everybody listening should know that Chris Aaron is a wonderful person.
00:51:22
Speaker
I've chosen to do this podcast with her because I love her. And she can be heartless because I know she has a heart.
00:51:30
Speaker
Okay. So my question is this. Oh, No, it's not bad. um so you – Woods had stranger danger the last time your in-laws were in town. And you were in the house with them when he was freaking out, right? When he was having a meltdown and didn't want to be with them.
00:51:51
Speaker
Could leaving the house –
00:51:55
Speaker
So this is why it sounds a little bit heartless and and cruel to the baby. But if you were to leave the house and he knows you're just not around, because if the baby knows you're around, the baby's going to want you.
00:52:07
Speaker
And i I know there's a blizzard outside right now. That's why I was kind of like, I don't even know if this is possible, but could leaving the house, even to just go sit in your car or drive down the road a little bit so that no one could come out to the car and be like, hey, Kilton, like the baby's crying. Take the baby their problem for like,
00:52:24
Speaker
a couple of hours, maybe twice while your parents are there. I know that the library is far away, but you could literally like find anywhere else to sit. You have neighbors that are friendly and you know, I'm just wondering if there's any way that you could steal time away. And sometimes one, the baby knows you're in the house. And so i don't think that's true.
00:52:46
Speaker
Babies are not that smart. It doesn't know if I'm in the basement. Smell your titties from a mile away No, he can't. If I am in the basement and he is upstairs and I'm like, I'm behind two separate doors.
00:53:01
Speaker
Like those are the doors I would go out to leave the house. He does not know the difference between me being in the wood shop and me being in my car down the road. But you can't hear him cry. And that's why I'm not leaving.
00:53:15
Speaker
I'm not a, this is a personal preference. This is very, for me and me alone, I'm not a cry it out kind of girl. If that baby's crying, it's because I'm supposed to be there.
00:53:26
Speaker
Me, personally, not moms. Moms are not supposed to be there. I am supposed to be there. I will rank priority that the baby is more important to me than my writing, right now.
00:53:37
Speaker
and And I know that that is a hindrance to the writing. And I know that that slows me down, but I have my priority list. I think your suggestion is very smart. If I would just leave him with the parents to let him suffer and deal with it, and I would come back. He's not going suffer. He's not suffering. He is suffering. He's suffering. He's wailing at the top of his lungs. He's unhappy.
00:54:05
Speaker
I know that the- will never learn how to be apart and be okay if you always come every time he cries.
00:54:16
Speaker
i have ah I had a friend, and I don't know if you do this too, but I had a friend whose baby would only nap if she were holding the baby. And we're talking like three years of napping, holding this child every day like while the kid napped.
00:54:31
Speaker
And I was like, that kid of course is not going to nap by itself because you will hold the baby. no For it to sleep. Like some of these things, like they can learn to adapt to. admire your, i don't want the baby to cry it out. That's why I'm saying I'm heartless because I put the baby in the bedroom and my in-laws look at me like you are scum.
Parenting Choices and Writing
00:54:55
Speaker
And Sabine would be crying and they look at me like they thought I was the lowest of the lowest. Like, I don't care. That baby is going to cry until she goes to sleep need some sleep.
00:55:07
Speaker
I was, was very, i guess that's just how I parented everyone. Every mom does everything her own way, but I'm just saying, if If you were to leave the house and you cannot hear him cry and Ben and your parents had to figure it out, the baby will stop crying. It's not going to cry for the entirety of the two hours. maybe I do think this is really important. The baby does not cry if Ben is there.
00:55:35
Speaker
Baby loves being with Ben. okay, well then leave Ben with the baby and get in the car and go write somewhere for a couple hours. The last time this didn't work is because Ben was really sick. I will have some opportunities this week that baby can be with Ben because Ben is well again. Stuff some vitamins in Ben's mouth.
00:55:54
Speaker
Go somewhere and write your book. That's right, but it's her. Okay, that's that's that. That is my motherly, like my idea, but You parent how you want parent. And I don't judge you for that whatsoever. It kind of makes me feel like a shitty mom, but I'll do that with my parents. know you're not judging. You're only judging my raccoon video tendencies.
00:56:19
Speaker
I love, see, the thing is, it's just me like thinking about me because I also love a good raccoon video. And I also love, I love cats being mean to dogs. I love dogs. Like talk dog talking videos are my kryptonite.
00:56:33
Speaker
but When dogs are talking and saying like, they sound like they're saying something, I can watch that on the same video on repeat multiple times. But my second question to you is this, do you have brain capacity at the end of the night to write? Like you feel like your brain still, I cannot do that. Like I am so fried by the end of the day that right before bed would be very hard for me.
00:56:55
Speaker
No, at night it's great. It's fine. I think that, especially because like it's dark, I'm alone. It's, you know, like I can hear the wind howling.
00:57:06
Speaker
Like it puts me, it and maybe this is just this novel. It really puts me in the space of the novel. Alone, dark, snowy. Like that is where I'm supposed to be for this novel. I actually do have a lot of trouble writing this novel when it's nice out because it's rarely nice out in the book.
00:57:25
Speaker
And so it's like, it it just feels, it doesn't feel right. But yeah, i can, you know, the work I'm doing right now is, it's not sapping my creativity in that way. And I'm so desperate to like get into the space of the work I want to be doing that by the time I am in bed, I am so excited to work on something else that as long as I bring the laptop, I'm I can usually do it.
00:57:49
Speaker
It hasn't worked this past week because I didn't have enough sleep. And so it was like, baby fell asleep at 7.30. I fell asleep at eight. And now I'm i'm rested. i feel great.
00:58:02
Speaker
I feel as great as you can with an eight month old. And so yeah, I'm ready to rock and roll or torture myself. You know, obviously that works for me. So maybe I'll be whooped, but have some words. I can't wait.
00:58:13
Speaker
I can't to hear how your week went. Oh God. Tell me your goals. My goals.
Conclusion and Listener Engagement
00:58:20
Speaker
I told you my goals. Did you already tell me your goals? Yeah, I did.
00:58:24
Speaker
Are you distracted? I'm so distracted. oh God. Maybe I'm not as rested as I thought. Should be good. Should be a good week ahead, Chris Aaron.
00:58:36
Speaker
We're going to do great. This is pen pals with c Kelton Wright and Chris Aaron Canary. Please rate and subscribe and send to all your friends and enemies. If you have a question, where can people find us, Chris Erin?
00:58:50
Speaker
Officialpenpalspod at gmail.com. Please shoot us a note. We'd love to hear from you. And you can find us on Instagram at penpalspod. Let us know what you want to hear about next. We're all ears.
00:59:02
Speaker
All ears and fingers.
00:59:10
Speaker
See you next time. Bye.