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Nostalgia in Video Games
275 Plays3 years ago
In this episode, Fraser (Satsunami) and Adam discuss the role of nostalgia in gaming. Does it have a positive role in how video games are perceived or can it hinder growth?
For more Satsunami content, please click here!
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Transcript
Welcome and Introduction
00:00:05
Speaker
Welcome to Chad Tsunami. Hello everybody and welcome to the 13th episode of Chad Tsunami. I'm Sad Tsunami and today I'm getting a sense of deja vu because I'm joined once again by my very good friend Adam. Hello there. I could do back as much as you try to get rid of me, you never can.
00:00:35
Speaker
You're lit. We've got a boomerang friendship. What can I say? I always come back and smack you in the face. You do. Sometimes I'm back of the head.
Nostalgia in Video Games: An Overview
00:00:45
Speaker
It depends which way I'm not looking. As we were saying before, the stream, it keeps me on my toes.
00:00:55
Speaker
on your toes or in the hospital. Speaking of nostalgic things, now joking. So yeah, as you can see, today we are going to be covering the topic of nostalgia, which I have to admit, so I was saying this to you before the stream, it's quite
00:01:13
Speaker
a well-talked-about subject in terms of video games, isn't it? Oh yeah, definitely. I think we're mostly unsurprisingly so. You know, you expect some people to talk about it, but there seems to be a wealth of discussion about the topic. And it's just so interesting. So before we go on to give our two cents about it, do you want to tell the audience listening at home what do we mean when we say nostalgic?
00:01:39
Speaker
So it's that feeling, you know, so nostalgia really relates to, it's really all about feeling and it's the feelings that, you know, certain, we use video games because we're obviously gonna talk about video games, but so certain video games gave you, usually when you're younger, you know, in your kind of formative years, those experiences and those feelings that those games gave you and that you hold on to, you internalize and they're always present and you know, certain things like can just remind you of that and I think the kind of scientific thing is it releases like dopamine
00:02:09
Speaker
you know into your into your body to give you that lovely oh you know that love that good old hit like an old chemical hit to make you feel good and you're always in a way kind of craving that and that's why you know we look back so fondly on on certain things it's even just the idea of not even the game itself but something i'm kind of looking at the artwork that i used for today's episode and and there's like a lot of kind of icon strong old games like from space invaders and
00:02:39
Speaker
you know, Mario and things like that. And it's like even looking at small symbols like that, it doesn't even have to be the fully fledged, you know, game. It's just like seeing those images and then getting that kind of rush of, you know, nostalgia of the first time you saw them. And it is. Yeah, it just kind of overwhelms you. Yeah, it brings a tear to your eye, which, thank God we've not... I was going to say, thank God we've not got like webcams or anything. We can pretend, you know, that we're crying in the background.
00:03:08
Speaker
It's actually good I wore mascara today. You'd definitely be able to tell. I know, it would be nostalgic running.
Personal Nostalgic Memories
00:03:16
Speaker
So yeah, to kind of kick us off, do you want to share any notable nostalgic moments in relation to video games?
00:03:26
Speaker
yeah certainly well i mean i think i i think over the course of these of these various chatsanamis um have sort of revealed i've revealed my sort of nostalgic nostalgic tendencies for certain games certainly if you if you listen to the childhood games one you know i wax lyrical for god knows how long about the medal of honor series that's a good that is a game series that i am i do have a very heavy nostalgia for
00:03:49
Speaker
Other games as well, like original Rome Total War is one that I absolutely adore and that hits a very strong nostalgic nerve for me when I think about that and just the hours I devoted to it and how much fun I had and how much I look forward to playing it. The original Halo, go back to listen to our episode on Halo, how much I love that original. The original Halo, just because of the time when I played it, one of the first promo video games I played,
00:04:14
Speaker
and just, you know, it just stuck with me, the feelings. A more recent one, a more modern one for me was Skyrim. How old, Skyrim? Skyrim would be 10 years now, I think. 10 years this year. Yeah, yeah. Two thousand and a lot. Yeah, that's when it came out. So yeah, so that's slightly more recent. So I was 19.
00:04:29
Speaker
when I played that but still properly hit me and I've actually started replaying it again recently. All the feels are coming back and everything. I'm back in Tamriel, Skyrim and everything. So those are a couple of games there. I've picked ones that I think are probably at least well received and well acclaimed. There's a couple of other ones. There's a game called Fusion Frenzy, which I don't know if you've heard of.
00:04:54
Speaker
if anybody's ever heard of it. It's on Game Pass now. It was exclusive to the original Xbox. It's basically like a knockoff Mario party. But I used to play that when I was quite young with friends and stuff. And so I've got, it's not a great game and I've not played it in years. I don't think it's gonna be good to go back to, but I just have great memories. I'm like, ah, fusion frenzy. Yeah, I'm just, sorry, I'm just writing that down in the background, just adding it to the backlog of many games I need to play.
00:05:20
Speaker
Maybe I'll convince the sandwich. I think it's a four player one, so I can convince the sandwiches to have a go and then you can be like, Adam, what is this crap? You make this play for a long time. Oh, God. That is the worst, though. See, when you've got such a nostalgia for a game and then you tell people about it, you're like, this game was so good. And then they actually play it and you're just like, oh, God, I'm so sorry.
The Impact of Nostalgia on Expectations
00:05:44
Speaker
I didn't hold on. I absolutely apologise. I mean the worst one for me like for that was I think I've brought it up before but Golden Eye Rogue Agent. Oh yeah. So I remember I'd bought it in one of these like second hands. I think it was on these second hands like game and DVD shops and I brought it back for one of my friends to play and I was really excited to show them because I loved playing it on the Gamecube. I was like
00:06:10
Speaker
oh we've got to play it and basically the story is that you play as a rogue agent who works for the bad guys rather than playing as James Bond. It's really cool. I really enjoyed it. The only issue is I remember turning it on for the first time being like oh this is going to be so cool and we put it on and then yeah it was like
00:06:32
Speaker
yeah, which pixels, erm, James Bond. Like, it was all distorted, it was... oh, it was just a mess. No, it was not a happy night. I've had your games that night.
00:06:42
Speaker
But that's the funny thing, isn't it, about nostalgia? The most important thing about nostalgia is that feeling. It's not actually if something was good or not, whether it be video games, movies, whatever you're talking about. It doesn't matter if it was actually good or not objectively. It's all about that feeling. That's what we're talking about, obviously, you with Rogate and me with that fusion frenzy. The feelings we associate just override any kind of quality control issues or anything like that.
00:07:08
Speaker
See, that was one of the things that when I started doing my streams, I really wanted to... So this is a really weird thing that I really wanted to share with my childhood games. And yeah, bad idea on my front.
00:07:23
Speaker
because a lot of them don't hold up. As I said, the first game I played was Pokémon. It's changed so much over the course of the last couple of years. What was the other one? Oh yeah, Simpsons Hit and Run. The less said about that, the better. Where basically I had to rage quit at the very last level because I missed out by a second and it was like, you know, I'm getting too old for this. What was the other one? Oh yeah, Destroy All Humans. Similar thing.
00:07:52
Speaker
where it absolutely raged at the very end. You know what I'm getting? I'm becoming an old man, you know? I'm becoming an old man, looking back, bitter and being like, oh, these games and these youngsters. I feel like a lot of the games you like, your favourite childhood games are like, what I associate the damn brown books with.
00:08:11
Speaker
If they're really compelling through the beginning and middle and you keep wanting to play, then you just get a really unsatisfying ending. Just get those feelings of like, oh, it reminds me of that. Yeah, exactly. Have you ever reread, like, kind of slightly off-topic, but if you've ever read a Dan Brown book and been like, oh my god.
00:08:32
Speaker
Oh god. Yeah, I can't remember what one, whether it was the DaVinci Code or what it was, but it was like one of them where just the writing was just, I was just like, yeah, well let's put this down into the cupboard. Um, let's not read more about silver foxes and things like that. Let's just, let's just lock this cupboard. Much like, you know, the secrets of the church or whatever, let's just lock this away. Just never.
00:08:56
Speaker
never talk about this again you know it's like oh my god um but guess back to video games that's next week's chat tsunami um i'm probably like treading over old grounds um i think we both are because we have like talked talked in depth haven't we about like our child who's games and things for me definitely one of the most like
00:09:19
Speaker
Vivid Memories for me was Pokemon Yellow. That was the very first Pokemon game I ever got. And don't get me wrong, like some games, like Nintendo games especially, but some games do actually really hold up. It's like because there's like better versions of them. See when you go back and replay the old Call of Duty games?
00:09:38
Speaker
Like Call of Duty, I actually didn't, and this is a weird one, I didn't get into Call of Duty till I was about 15 years old. The reason being that my parents were quite strict about what games I could play. Like they didn't mind if it was a 15, so long as I was 15 years old. So like I had to wait till I was 15 to play Call of Duty 3. And I absolutely loved it. Thought it was really good. And
00:10:02
Speaker
Yeah, that's kind of the spiral that got me into the FPS games, but see going back to those old games, like I think the only exception for old games is probably like Battlefront 2 or even the old like Battlefront like those kind of games really hold up because I'm more kind of fun and you know arcadey whereas like a game that's supposed to be a serious war shooter like you know Call of Duty like you've already got ones that are
00:10:30
Speaker
mechanically so much better and again it's that kind of idea isn't it that you're trying to leave it in like a bubble you know it's like you don't want to bring it to the surface but then when you do you realize that maybe it's not I mean not always I'm not saying like everything nostalgic is terrible
00:10:48
Speaker
Yeah, I think it depends. I think it really depends as well. Like, I totally agree. Like, there's definitely some things you go back to and you're like, Oh, God, like, you know, this hasn't held up at all. But I still like, again, this is a completely purely personal purely subjective thing. So other opinions are available. But like, I go back to I because I
00:11:06
Speaker
you know, a strong love of the early kind of cold duty franchise. Um, so I can still go back and play those and like, I agree. Like you're a bit like, Oh, this is a, some of it's a bit clunky now. And you're like, damn, I could really deal with a sprint button. Um, but like I still, I still really enjoy those games. I think a lot of that is a good old heavy dose of nostalgia. Um, which kind of allows me to see past.
00:11:25
Speaker
see past these sort of mechanical things but with so I totally agree with some other things you're like got it it doesn't matter you could like literally dunk me in a vat of nostalgia and I cannot I cannot get past these glaring like mechanical or or performance or graphical issues I always remember slightly off topic but I remember when
00:11:44
Speaker
I can't remember if you were there, it was one of the comicons, like one of the bigger comicons that we went to in the city and there was this like huge stall, I remember, where it was selling like all the old video game, you know, and not cartridge, sorry, all the old video game, like the consoles and things. I remember this like boy, that like honestly like maybe 10
00:12:07
Speaker
ten to twelve years old, turned round to me randomly, did not know this like a little sassy child at all, and they went, I actually don't know what game anything I should get, because that one's fifty pounds, but that one's forty. And do you know who's pointing that? He was pointing at the Gameboy Advance and the Gameboy SP, and I was like, oh god, I remember.
00:12:31
Speaker
He weren't even born when these were out. You know, yeah, I was like, oh my god, wait, I didn't have an SP granted, but I was like, you know the meme, or not the meme, but the scene from, I think it's the Chronicles of Narnia, you're the Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe, where it's Aslan who turns round and says, don't speak those words, which I was there when they were written. It's like, that's how you feel, because you're like, my god, I'm old.
Changing Preferences and the Retro Label
00:12:58
Speaker
I mean, another,
00:12:59
Speaker
quite tangent. I put a tweet out about this but I remember going to again there was another smaller comical and I think you were there because I did complain to you about this we are in like one of the side rooms there was like this and I kid you not I'm doing the air quotes just now it was a retro gaming room
00:13:19
Speaker
and this was only a couple of years ago keep in mind this was like 2018-19 maybe and I kid you not you walked in and there was like a Nintendo Wii and Xbox 360 like hooked up and I was like this isn't retro
00:13:38
Speaker
I mean, technically, but I was like, no. I was expecting like, I mean, don't get me wrong, they had like the GameCube and, you know, like the N64 and things, but even still, that is, that's just ridiculous. Yeah, it's funny because even like a GameCube to me, or like a PS2 or like an Xbox, that's not retro to me. And that's just obviously because that was like the generation that I got into consoles. So, but that's not retro. But yeah, like I remember that as well. I don't think I've ever felt as old as in a single place as I did in that room.
00:14:07
Speaker
I was like, my god, like glass cases. And you've got like, you've got like the kite in the corner with the, you know, like N64 controller upside down and everything, and you're like, oh my god, this is, this is just an omni shambles of the highest.
00:14:23
Speaker
Get away from it! It's just, it was so weird to see. But that's the thing though, it's kind of like the ever-changing landscape as a turn of gaming, where they kind of have to change. So this was something that I saw someone bring up the other day. Kind of inspired me to do this, but it was like, the idea that like, seeing nowadays how kids are playing like, you know, Fortnite and things like that, we kind of like, jokingly, I think you and I kind of go, oh Fortnite, you know, it's a young manscape.
00:14:54
Speaker
enough for us yeah whereas like to them like in years to come you know that's gonna be the retro thing which is really it is really scary see once Fortnite becomes like the retro gaming thing oh Jesus that that's when we are officially old old I mean we're already getting old now but see when it gets to that stage we are oh god yeah glad to be removed from society but
00:15:22
Speaker
What, you mean like Logan Run style? Yeah, pretty. I think we've only got a year left and all on this thing. Oh god, better make it count. Yeah, oh god. But yeah, moving on to the cheerier side in Australia.
00:15:37
Speaker
One of the funny things that I noticed was that a while ago, you and I and our good friend Steven went through all three of the original Halo games. So, of course, Halo 1-3 and technically we got through ODST and Halo 4 as well, didn't we? Yeah, we can actually play it over.
00:16:00
Speaker
Oh no, we didn't complete Halo DST, but let's just say we did. Yeah, yes we did, yes we did. It's canon, we did it. Yeah, we did. Yeah, it's in the lore, it's like the Forgotten Files. Someone's lost the footage. Probably Steven, I know. The thing that I find interesting though is, when I was about 15 years old, and that was a while ago, so don't ask. When I was 15, I played Halo 3 for the first time, so I wasn't really as lucky, like I didn't get to grow up playing Halo.
00:16:28
Speaker
and I didn't really go to anyone's house to you know like had an Xbox so I never got the chance to like play it until I was 15 and I really enjoyed like Halo 3 granted you know like I had no idea what was going on but I was still like you know
00:16:44
Speaker
I'm in it for the fun, you know, why not? So I was playing Halo 3, really enjoying it, and I remember Steven was in a kind of similar boat, he played Halo 3 first as well when we first streamed it last year, and
00:17:01
Speaker
It's strange because he had the exact same experience I did when he played Halo 3 first, then he went back to Halo 1, and then he played Halo 2 with me on stream, and he hated Halo 1. But I remember when I played it, I didn't think there was too much of a difference. Like, obviously the graphics, you know, you can't help that with these nostalgic games, but other than that, I thought the gameplay was very similar.
00:17:29
Speaker
Yeah, it's definitely reminiscent enough. Obviously, they've made some changes. But it is reminiscent enough. I think it's partly that thing of being an older game where the difficulty was a lot steeper. They throw a lot more at you in Halo, and you're put into a lot of really difficult fights in very close quarters. So I do think, again, I'm not speaking for Steven, but I do think that the difficulty curve
00:17:56
Speaker
is probably the thing and I think that's something that kind of kills a lot of people's interest in older games if they haven't you know if they didn't play them at the time is that they can be like really pretty difficult but again I think it it's a funny thing because you just don't know how people are going to react to things and did you so you obviously really enjoyed Halo 3 when you played it the first time
00:18:14
Speaker
So perhaps there's enough good feeling there, and you're like, oh, I enjoyed this push through, and either more trickier bits of the original Halo, that feeling was able to propel you up.
00:18:26
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know. I feel as if between that and kind of the extra material that was available at the time, there was a lot of shows. I know I've talked about a show a lot, but Arby and the Chief was one of them. It was a show that was on constantly. Same with the other one. Even for Call of Duty, there was Online Gamer as well.
00:18:49
Speaker
Which unlike, so kind of just to quickly summarise, Arby and the Chief was just basically a guy who had two hero figures and he just basically like pretended to, you know, that they, it was like an adult version, a toy story, pretended they were live and
00:19:05
Speaker
or Alive sorry and just they spent their days playing the Xbox and they just spent their day playing Halo and it was the same with the online gamer but the only difference was the online gamer was just a bit of guy who was this just a stereotype like horrible horrible person like but
00:19:23
Speaker
just this guy who played code all the time and kind of, you know, it was kind of the thing at the time to stereotype, I suppose. Really interesting, but that kind of added to the nostalgia. Which sounds a bit weird to say, like it wasn't enough. I feel kind of bad being like, oh, is it not enough that the game gives you the nostalgic feelings. It's like, no, I need more, damn it. More. Oh god, it's like Little Shop of Horrors all over again. More.
00:19:53
Speaker
Feed me! Exactly. But yeah, it's just that kind of feeling of remembering those kind of, I guess you could say good days, you know, it's like the days where we had kind of less responsibilities and you know, we had more time to game and everything and you know, it was just like a bit of a simpler time, not as stressful at times. You know, obviously except for school and things and you know, like other than that,
00:20:22
Speaker
So that's the kind of thing about nostalgia as well. I think as human beings, we hold on to good memories longer than we do bad memories. You're definitely right, we definitely have more time, less responsibilities at a younger age, and we could devote more time to games. Even if we did have responsibilities and things going on at that time that weren't as great, we probably don't remember them as well as we remember.
00:20:47
Speaker
oh like you know the good things we did like whatever whatever they were playing video games like etc etc yeah back in the good old days you know back in them days yeah shedding their tear there so that kind of speaking of like the good side of nostalgia that kind of brings us on to like a very nice segue so thank you for that practice field eh yeah so we're going to talk about the kind of
00:21:10
Speaker
I suppose like the duality of nostalgia.
Nostalgia's Role in Personal Identity
00:21:13
Speaker
We're going to be talking about like the good side of nostalgia so as we're saying about you know bringing back those good memories and things and as well we're going to dive into probably the less desirable aspects of nostalgia. Yeah let's kick it off. So do you want to start with what good things come from nostalgia?
00:21:32
Speaker
Yeah, well, I'll ask. I mean, for a start, like you should, well, not maybe, maybe you can't always do, but you should do things that make you feel good. So, you know, I think that's one of the, that's like maybe the primary good thing about nostalgia. If it makes you feel good to play something, you know, play a video game or whatever.
00:21:47
Speaker
you know, then you should do it. Because, you know, they like, it's not right to punish yourself, but deny yourself, something like that. So that's like the primary benefit is good for your like, well being for your mental health or whatever. So definitely, the good thing about like, I think with a lot of these games,
00:22:03
Speaker
and other things that we get nostalgic about. A lot of these are associated with times in our life like childhood, teenage years, times like our formative years where we're growing and we're learning a lot about ourselves and we're kind of developing our own identity and that's why a lot of these things resonate.
00:22:21
Speaker
You know, that's like, as I said, when I was talking about like, Medal of Honor and stuff at the time that I got into the Medal of Honor series, that was a time that my interest in history was really developing, and my interest in like, you know, the world wars and everything. And that's something that I've carried through with me to this day. And so that's like, that's, that's a part of me that, you know, was developing in that time, and I associate with
00:22:41
Speaker
playing Medal of Honor games and other games like Early Call of Duty. So I look back fondly as that, as that was a development of part of my self-identity and my own interests and hobbies. So from that perspective, while maybe perhaps nostalgia itself isn't the reason you develop these interests and everything, it can be a good way to remind yourself.
00:23:01
Speaker
This is what I'm passionate about. This is my hobby. This is what I like to do. This is what I'm interested in. And it's important to have interests and hobbies and everything, whether you want to share them with other people or whether you just want to indulge in yourself. That's fine either way. But so nostalgia is a good way, I think, to remind yourself and be like, you know what? And get to know yourself a bit better. Show yourself some self-love.
00:23:23
Speaker
So I would say looking at it, I think those are the two main kind of benefits I would say of nostalgia. Because it is. Nostalgia is a bit like, I don't want to oversimplify it, but it is like that kind of comfort blanket when it comes to video games. It's that idea of kind of, and I think I brought this up in our episode about like childhood games, but it's like for example, this is my gaming confession so I'm saying that live, I used to be a Sonic fan. I'm sorry, you had to find out this way. Yes!
00:23:52
Speaker
See, I'll always have a soft spot for like, see Pokemon and Sonic and games like that. I'll always have like a really soft spot for those games because Sonic is just one of those franchises that has gone down the tube and like, I think I ranted about like,
00:24:08
Speaker
this on our bad video games episode but honest to goodness like it's one of those series that I still remember growing up with the like Sonic Adventure series I grew up with you know heroes and even Shadow the Hedgehog and just a quick reminder that is the game where they gave a hedgehog a gun to shoot aliens so you're thinking what the hell in fact I always remember that like I've got a distinct memory even though the game was bad like before I played it
00:24:35
Speaker
That's gonna sound really strange but I always remember I was in church with my mum when I was younger and I remember sitting there and I saw something kind of peek out her bag and I was like, what is that? And I don't know whether she'd gone out and bought it, you know, and she just forgot to take it out her bag but she'd got it for, it was either my Christmas or either my birthday or Christmas but she had actually got that game so it was like sitting in and I kept looking in her bag and I think people were starting to think
00:25:09
Speaker
It's not like a hedgehog game. I just remember getting so excited about that, and obviously you play the game and it doesn't hold up and everything, but the point is, it's almost as if these memories, whether the game is good or bad, it almost feels as if the nostalgia kind of takes that away, if you know what I mean, or it was soft and sable. I remember even on this channel playing a bit of Shadow the Hedgehog. Obviously, not a great game.
00:25:28
Speaker
Why is he going down to his mom's back so much?
00:25:39
Speaker
but at least you can talk about it like that is the thing like even though it's bad at least it gives you something to kind of talk about and it's also a good icebreaker as well isn't it oh yeah like i mean even staying to someone like i always remember at university people saying oh i'm playing pokemon
00:26:00
Speaker
And, you know, you're like, oh, you're playing Pokémon. I used to love Pokémon when I was growing up. But it's weird because when you're in, like, high school, you're not far enough ahead that it's nostalgic enough. So people still have, like, those kind of games, like, fresh in the memory and the kind of...
00:26:17
Speaker
you know that way you get a lot of people who keep what you like and what you don't like so they're kind of like oh you like Pokemon or you like Call of Duty when Halo is the next best thing or you know whatever games. I'm trying to think of the popular games when we were growing up you know like the Marios and
00:26:35
Speaker
Oh yeah, well certainly Call of Duty was a really high, like you know... Oh yeah, absolutely. I said definitely ascending at least. But I mean it's like, it's given it time to... I suppose it's given it time to kind of age, like a fine line, isn't it? Yeah. To kind of like mature and then get your opinions and look at it in hindsight.
00:26:53
Speaker
and you know look back and as I was saying like a simpler time where you can kind of like retreat into you know those kind of days where you could just play those games and it does it gives you like that kind of rush of just like feels I suppose to calling a phrase
00:27:09
Speaker
Yeah, so as I said, it's definitely that comfort blanket and I do feel it's good as well to kind of, you know, like, to unite with friends as well.
Nostalgia and Social Connections
00:27:18
Speaker
I feel as if, like, if it's not a good way to, like, you know, be an icebreaker, it's definitely a good way to kind of connect with people.
00:27:26
Speaker
You and me have played a lot of games during the lockdown and things online and mostly it's been Call of Duty and games like that. Of course they've also included Steven, which I feel as if I've gotten to know Steven a bit better throughout this because of being able to play games that we used to like. For anyone wondering, yes it's Call of Duty.
00:27:49
Speaker
But you know, it's like games we used to play when we were younger. And then, because I remember at the start of the lockdown, I was kind of thinking, oh, should I buy it? Should I not? Because I think, see, up until that point, it was a while since I'd played, like, a college-y game. And then I think you'd said you had it and Steven had it. And then I was like, should I get it? And I was like, you know what? I'm gonna get it. I'm gonna get Modern Warfare. And I did. And I don't regret it because, you know, those couple of months, they were just like a blast.
00:28:18
Speaker
you know being able to connect with you guys even though nowadays we obviously can't do that physically because of you know restrictions and things but yeah it's like going back to those days of and i think i mentioned this in the past episode but it's like do you remember back in the day when you would go to someone's house and you would like play you know you play a two player game but obviously it would be like split screen yeah rather than you know online i don't know there's something kind of nice about that you know there was something personal
00:28:47
Speaker
Yeah. I totally agree. And that's one thing that I'm dead. I think I might have mentioned it. At least to you. I think I might have mentioned it to Steven as well. But once all this craziness is over, you know...
00:28:59
Speaker
And we can meet up again. I really want to crack out, because I have my original Xbox packed away at the minute in a cupboard. I really want to crack it out and load up, ideally, probably the time splitters games. I get you guys over and just play it. And again, perhaps they don't hold up as well. That's another game that you played on stream. But just load them up. And again, even if they don't hold up as well now, I still think it'll be a laugh just to get you guys over and just play it and have some fun.
00:29:28
Speaker
See, the funny thing about Timesplitter was that was another game I got really into, but because it was another friend who was promoting it through his own nostalgia. So it's kind of like a nostalgia chain.
00:29:43
Speaker
where it's like he played it when he was younger, he promoted it to me because he was nostalgic about this game and then yeah he's just got this newfound sense of nostalgia from, you know, so basically just to kind of quickly explain it was a friend of mine who told me to buy it in this secondhand video game shop and I bought it thinking I don't know if this will be my kind of game but we like spent the whole night completely tearing through Time Splitter 2
00:30:12
Speaker
And even though, I don't even know if you would include that in the nostalgia bracket, because it was like six, seven, maybe even eight years ago. Six to eight years ago, maybe. And I still feel kind of nostalgic, because every time I look at the game, I think of those times I spent in university kind of just sitting up playing those games. And it is weird how infectious nostalgia can be, if you know.
00:30:42
Speaker
Yeah, it's like a kind of philosophical question, isn't it? Like, how old does it have to be to be nostalgic? And like, I don't know if there is a definite answer to that. I mean, you could have played something last year, or something last year that you feel nostalgic for, like, I mean, I guess again, at various different levels, like, you obviously have really strong nostalgia, and that's probably associated with games, you know, you played in your childhood, your teenage years, but you
00:31:05
Speaker
you can get like lesser extensive nostalgia you know so like i think it's one of these things that varies on a scale but i think as well that's another good thing about nostalgia is it's a way to get introduced to new things it doesn't even so much i mean you can obviously introduce people to new things and but as well like just by meeting somebody and like you know kind of interacting with their nostalgia you can get introduced to things that you might not have even bothered to look at um before and you know like
00:31:30
Speaker
I would encourage people to like to share like you know there I know sometimes people you can it's kind of natural to like not want to share everything because you're like well I don't want to like you know open myself up and share but I think it is a maybe not with you know with people you kind of trust and that you know are like good people. I would encourage people to open up because you know at the end of the day like as long as you remember that your opinion isn't sacrosanct it's not like because you like this everybody else must like this and no other opinions are available like people
00:31:57
Speaker
do are gonna like have different opinions and that's fine like it's okay to have opinions and stuff as long as you're respectful about it.
00:32:04
Speaker
But, you know, and so perhaps, you know, in the same way that obviously I have a great fondness and love for Halo, but obviously it's been seen, but he didn't have that. And, you know, like we do joke. I think I got a little bit defensive at first about that. I was like, you know, how dare you? You're wrong. You're just wrong. But, you know, like a bit of reflection. I was like, right. I sound like a proper child right now. So like a bit of reflection. You're like, you know what? But I'm so glad that I shared that. And so perhaps he didn't.
00:32:29
Speaker
love it as much as I did but that's fine you know perhaps to share something else child didn't you might like it just as much as I do so it's a good way just to connect you said this right just a good way to connect with people there is that kind of issue isn't it from trying to like disconnect your nostalgic self from your objective self when it comes to those games so for example like I've seen a lot of let's players do like
00:32:51
Speaker
For example, let's say Sonic. That's quite an easy punching bag for games. And I mean it's the same with some other platformer at the time where they're just low hanging through. It's like what I said about Banjo-Kazooie weeks ago. The first two, all great games, perfectly fine. The third one, yeah, let's beat up on it.
00:33:12
Speaker
I mean, it is quite interesting to kind of realise that or come to that kind of, you know, like that sense of enlightenment where you're just like, I should really stop defending. Or not stop defending, but you know, not be as emotionally invested without kind of realising the flaws.
00:33:30
Speaker
of the game because like as I said Sonic is definitely like a little hanging fruit and I don't like care if anybody like criticizes it you know it's like it's fair enough you know because there are faults with it but see when it's like the wrong faults when they're like oh it's you know I hate this game because of this reason they're like whoa whoa whoa hold on
00:33:50
Speaker
or like when you see people play like for example GoldenEye 64 like a game that has aged like don't want to say milk like I'm a revolutionary for the time I think milk is an apt no offense to GoldenEye but yeah GoldenEye was like a total what's the word then not Trailblazer I think Trailblazer is the right it was revolutionary
00:34:18
Speaker
Oh yeah, I mean it was absolutely at the time like everybody was going nuts with this game, they loved it but now when you play it like as I said there's just so many games that just have completely surpassed it whereas... so here's a question for you because I heard obviously that you had said about
00:34:40
Speaker
games like Total War and I think we've both got a very similar stance on the Total War series that the early ones we both really enjoyed and then when we got to the older ones we were kind of like
00:34:56
Speaker
I'm sorry the newer ones were like it's not as good you know because of all like the micromanaging things. Would you say like obviously objectively it's because they're so different but would you say nostalgia has a part to play in that?
00:35:14
Speaker
I think so I mean I think definitely because I think you develop a very you can develop a very fixed idea in your mind and be like this is the game that I liked you know and you know I won't brook you know anything any major differences to it and obviously as you said like the Total War series went in a different direction no it wasn't like a huge ginormous difference
00:35:34
Speaker
But it went in a different direction, and it did become a bit more micromanagy, which, you know, again, drove people like me and yourself away from it. At the end of the day, maybe more people liked that and disliked it, and that's fair enough. But I definitely think, because I had such strong feelings of Rome Total War, I'd put it in one of my top 10 favorite games of all time.
00:35:55
Speaker
because I absolutely loved it and I devoted so many hours to it. And I just think it's a brilliant game. But, you know, again, that's the double. And I know we're not simply talking about nostalgia, the negatives of it, but I'm sure we'll come up with that. It is that way if you can develop such a fixed idea of like,
00:36:10
Speaker
you know, this is my cherished baby, and I don't, you know, it's like, this isn't my child, you know, that kind of thing. So, oh definitely, I think this couch can really like, it can really like, it can really, it can put you off from trying new things, and perhaps it might devote some time to the neuro-total wars. You know, I did, I did, and I have bought a couple of them, like, when they were on sale, but I've not actually played them, perhaps if I devote some time to them, you know, I'll be like, you know what, these are good for what they are.
00:36:37
Speaker
I've actually done the same. I've bought, I think it's three kingdoms. Because it's set in China and I've got a real interest in Chinese history and things, I'm really excited to try it. But I just know as soon as I try it, I'm probably going to get the same feeling as when I played Rome II, which is
00:36:57
Speaker
Oh, this game looks amazing.
Challenges and Benefits of Nostalgia in Gaming
00:37:00
Speaker
It's just so, you know, incredible. And then when you actually play it, you're just like, Jesus Mary and the baby Joseph, what is going on with this? Like, there's so much micromanaging. There's so much of this and that. There's just too much going on. And again, it links back to what you were saying there about nostalgia. It's like,
00:37:20
Speaker
I do like that analogy of that's not my baby and you know it's like you know Sega standing there saying this is Total War and you're refusing to believe it you're like no no no no this isn't Total War and it is it's just it's it's a bit of a shame but I suppose yeah that is kind of a detriment of nostalgia which is something we will come on to but before we do is there any other points you think about like the good side of nostalgia for video games?
00:37:47
Speaker
I do think maybe as a kind of like add an addendum to what we've been saying, you know, like obviously some games and some consoles have like much, much more nostalgia attached to them than others. And so there's a lot bigger fan base. And that's how you do get, you know, like some of the games getting remade remastered, or, you know, we're getting now like these kind of the kind of consoles that, you know, you get the SNES Mini came out, the PlayStation Classic.
00:38:13
Speaker
SEGA Genesis, has that got one now? I think it does, yeah. Yeah, so you get like that. I mean and that in itself is like there can be a detriment to that as well but I think the positive of that is it does keep these things alive and does allow people a chance to experience them because you know at the end of the day like I mean I know they have like released Final Fantasy 7 on like taking aside the remake and they have like released I think it's on I think the original ones on there.
00:38:37
Speaker
game pass but like for some other games like it's not always easy to like you know for something like Resident Evil 2 like you know if you didn't have a playstation like you know how were you meant to how were you meant to play it you know there wasn't really as far as i know there was no i mean maybe you can emulate or something but how are you legally so how would you legally meant to play it you know being being the good good people that i'm sure you all are
00:38:58
Speaker
And so, but with there being a lot of nostalgia attached to it and a lot of like a big fan base behind it, I gave it the impetus for Capcom to remaster it. And that allowed other people, myself included, a chance to experience that game and to really enjoy it. So I think I would say that it's kind of attached to what we've been talking about already, but it does keep these kind of old games and old consoles alive. It allows a new audience to discover them.
00:39:19
Speaker
I mean, going back to what you were saying there about the companies really seeing new versions or old consoles in a new form. On the one hand there is that danger, we will get into that side of it, but there is that danger of rehashing old ground and things. You're completely right. I do think that it gives a new generation
00:39:45
Speaker
of, like, kids and gamers and things the chance to actually go back and play these games. Because let's face it, I mean, you know, all the Fortnite kids and everything, they're not gonna care about, like, the older games unless, you know, these companies are saying, oh, remember Mario? You know, and things like that. Which is kinda weird because I know I've kind of bashed Nintendo about this before, but for a company that really puts emphasis on nostalgia, they're really bad at it.
00:40:15
Speaker
They're really, really bad at it. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a multi-million dollar company, so what do I know? But it's like, maybe not bad at it. Okay, that's too harsh. But what I mean is, they could be capitalising on it better, you know? It's like the idea of, if they're gonna rehash old IPs, then one of our neutral friends, who I won't name, but he'll know who he is when he's listening to this, has stated in the past that
00:40:43
Speaker
when he's playing like Smash Brothers he just wishes he knew like what characters or who the characters were in it because you've got like the Ice Climbers, you've got Captain Falcon, you've got all of these characters like Nests from Earthbound, Game and Watch, yeah like all of these characters that you as you said you legally cannot play unless you pay what like hundreds of pounds for like some random guy halfway across the world to post it to you on eBay it's like you know
00:41:12
Speaker
I always remember playing the game Pokémon Coliseum. Absolutely loved it, but they brought out a sequel for it. And when I was younger, I don't know how I didn't hear about it, but I didn't get it. So at the time it probably would have been like, what, £30 to £50 maybe? Probably, because games used to be cheaper back then. I'm gonna say it, games used to be far cheaper back then than your £60 rubbish or £70 for your digital editions. Get off my lawn.
00:41:40
Speaker
and yeah like I remember looking on eBay and Amazon and things thinking oh yeah why don't you know why don't I get a copy for myself and it's like ridiculous prices you know like over like £100 or something I'm like I'm not paying like £150 £200 you know like add another £50 on then I could buy an Xbox SES you know I'm not buying like an old game just for that nostalgia boost you know there's a line
00:42:10
Speaker
There is definitely a nostalgia line where it's like, you will pay for certain, and you know, it's like, maybe it's just me being bitter about it, but it is like a kind of missed opportunity in that regard. Because this is kind of more of a cynical point about the good side of nostalgia, but it's definitely a good promotion tool, especially for gaming companies nowadays. Because I mean, look at Nintendo, and I mean Sega do this as well, and
00:42:35
Speaker
I mean, technically, Xbox have been doing this. Have you noticed this? They've been kind of cashing in saying, oh, do you remember the contains of Halo or things like that to be, you know, like they're kind of cashing in and people will, of course, you know, buy into it because
00:42:50
Speaker
that was the characters that especially us, you know, grew up with. And yeah, it's definitely a good promotion too. Definitely. Part of me as well, like just thinking of like the kind of the benefit as well, and just what you're saying there of like, you know, I was talking about introducing it to an audience as well. The historian in me is like, it's good to have a catalogue. It's good to have a catalogue of things that people can experience, you know. And then they like,
00:43:17
Speaker
You do want to be able to experience it. One game that I've really always wanted to play, or at least try out, is one for the GameCube, which was that Eternal Darkness Sanity Requiem, which was this really innovative horror game for its time. But that has never been released on anything other than the GameCube, and I don't think it ever will be.
00:43:36
Speaker
and you know like you you're like come on nintendo like you should even be able to just release like oh man i don't know who owns the rights now but whoever owns the rights like you must be able to do like you don't even have to remaster it you could just like should just release it on you know whatever like uh the switch or whatever you know a flippin night trap came out on the switch i'm pretty sure it could be like eternal darkness you know yeah
00:43:56
Speaker
But in a day, it's such a hassle for me to try and find a copy of that game and then also get a game. I never had a GameCube console. I don't know how much that would cost me and everything. So I do think it is important to have a living archive. It doesn't mean you have to play it, but the fact that it's there, I think it's just a good thing.
00:44:15
Speaker
because I mean a lot of gaming well I suppose it varies you know that like well you've got the asterisk and it's like affects me very but yeah it's like depending on the company like the Xbox have started doing this with like their game pass catalogue where they're introducing quite a lot of old games you know that you can go back and play I think they're like really doing good in that regard
00:44:41
Speaker
like making their consoles you know backwards compatible on things. I think they are very strong or they have like gotten off in a strong foot there. Nintendo started all right because they brought out things of course like the Legend of Zelda games, Pokémon, things like that for the 3DS and things on the virtual store and the Wii U store. Shout out to anyone who remembers that because I don't. Throwing a bit of shade there because I didn't own a Wii U.
00:45:11
Speaker
But yeah, they started off well there, and then they kind of just stopped. In terms of Pokémon, because obviously I know that's my kind of bread and butter, but they did like the originals, like Red, Blue, Yellow, then they went on to Silver, Gold and Crystal, and then they just stopped. And the weird thing is, people have been illegally uploading ROMs and things for years, and it's like, there's no excuse for them not
00:45:41
Speaker
to be able to do this, you know? Because the amount of money as well that they would cash in on the nostalgia. And I mean look at like, even Banjo-Kazooie, because I was thinking what you were saying there when you said about eternal darkness and like legal rights, because for Banjo-Kazooie that was the same where Nintendo, they didn't lose the rights but I think they sold it on to Xbox and they really didn't capitalise on it a lot. But what they did
00:46:07
Speaker
was they brought out a thing called rare replay and it's just basically a collection of all the old rare rare classics. So it's like Banjo-Kazooie, Banjo-Tooie, Perfect Dark, Conquers Bad Fur Day, you know all of these. Except Golden Eye was the golden eye. Except Golden Eye is, yeah. Nintendo kept firmly hold of that one I think.
00:46:27
Speaker
Well technically they do not make a remake of GoldenEye. Oh my god they did didn't they actually yeah? With Daniel Craig in it. Oh Jesus yeah. See that's another thing though because calling your game GoldenEye and then yes switching it with Daniel Craig like they clearly knew what they were doing with that. I don't think there was any call for you know I don't think there's like a James Bond fan sitting there going
00:46:51
Speaker
You know what I really wish? I wish that I could play Goldeneye, but with Daniel Craig. No offence to Daniel Craig, but I just mean, like, clearly they've seen, you know, the nostalgia around Goldeneye as a game and been like, yeah, we're gonna just make a very similar game. Or just an FPS, but just call it Goldeneye and be done with it. You're gonna make a card clone in, yeah. Yeah. Did that game not bomb, though?
00:47:18
Speaker
It didn't do well. It didn't do well, I don't think. That's a shame. It certainly wasn't received well. Maybe it's not, I don't know actually how it's sold, but it wasn't received well. Yeah, I remember people complaining about it and that was it, but it's just, it's, yeah, it's a shame having to kind of rely on that. Which kind of brings us kind of neatly onto the bad side now of nostalgia. So we've kind of covered like a lot of really good points about the good side. Yeah.
00:47:45
Speaker
so yeah oh god here we go i'm gonna let you start off with this like what yeah go for it yeah i i there are different dangers to it i mean as well like it's funny actually like here's here's the educational uh not to say this is obviously just not me as always
00:48:02
Speaker
of course educational perspective so nostalgia the actual word nostalgia is derived from from two ancient Greek words one is nostos which means returning makes sense but the other one is called the other one's algos which means suffering
00:48:17
Speaker
So there is that, there is like, yep, there is that eccentric nostalgia, that there is like, there's a bit of a component of suffering in there. And I think, again, we kind of talked about it, I think you can get so fixated and you might be like, this was, this is like, this is an amazing game. This is like a formative experience of my life, you know, and everything. I will not hear anything said against this game. It can make you close minded.
00:48:43
Speaker
I would say that as a negative. I think as well, the kind of trend of nostalgia can stifle creativity a bit. I do think it becomes... I mean, it's kind of the same thing that a lot of people complain about Hollywood, in that companies bank on remaking things, or just making sequels to establish properties, rather than actually funding newer ideas.
00:49:06
Speaker
And I think the same can be said in gaming as well. And maybe financially it makes sense. It is maybe more financially safe to make another Final Fantasy game than it is to invest in a completely new IP, a new property, and take that risk. So I think it can. And it's not just to, obviously, companies are responsible for that. But as well, us as consumers are as well. I think it's kind of a two-way. We're both at fault for that.
00:49:33
Speaker
The other thing I would say about it as well is I think not only do companies maybe not want to develop new games and take that risk, but I think as well, us as people, we can be a bit more closed-minded to trying new games because we're like, oh, well, I really like this game, and the nostalgia kicks in and you're more like a devote time to that. And part of that is also growing up, as we're talking about when we were kids,
00:49:59
Speaker
You had more time to devote to these games. You had more time to play games in general. Now we are adults. We do have responsibilities. We do have less time. And you are kind of forced to have a dilemma. You're like, do I want to devote time to a new game that possibly I won't like?
00:50:17
Speaker
Or I'll devote time to something that I know I like and go back to. And I had that thing, you know, I told you, I just started playing Skyrim again. I have read Dead Redemption 2 sitting in my on my backlog. And I was thinking, I was like, I should try this new game. I'm sure it's great. Like, I've only heard good things about it for the most part. I'm sure it's a great game, but I'll sit there and I was like,
00:50:40
Speaker
Oh, I do have limited time nowadays. Like, do I want to play this? And I was like, but I could just play Skyrim. I could just start farming. And I know I'm going to love it. I'm going to love being back in that world. So I think as well it can make you close your mind. It can close your mind off trying new things. And that does hurt, you know, new developers and new ideas. So I would say those definitely are. So I think I'm the bigger drawbacks of nostalgia.
00:51:05
Speaker
I mean it's going back to what we were saying earlier about the companies kind of making you know making old or rather bringing back like old properties like as you said bringing back the Sega Genesis bringing back the SNES you know as mini consoles or as Lego ones whatever the hell that was all about and you know it's like on the one hand absolutely great
00:51:30
Speaker
it's introducing that to like a newer generation of gamers. On the other hand you know it's again I think we're talking to like I was talking to a mutual friend of ours who he has like openly said that he's not a big fan of remakes and it's a very interesting point there. It's the fact that although you do have those games where
00:51:54
Speaker
they just remaster it or they like put a coat of you know paint on it like on the one hand you think oh that's great that they've updated the mechanics and things which I do appreciate but then yeah on the other hand you think well instead of leaving us with those old memories and then coming back and doing something new yeah right like there's nothing really creative there like I mean I'm not a game developer like I'm gonna say that right I'm not you know like trying to trash any game developers or anything with a craft
00:52:24
Speaker
Because it is. It's a really difficult thing, you know, to do. I can imagine that it must be such a difficult process, but at the same time it must be so easy to be like, right, okay, what old game franchise we're gonna pull out the hat today? Oh, Pac-Man. Haven't seen that in a while. Or, oh, Space Invaders. It's just, it's a strange one. It's like an easy money maker. And I mean, I suppose that's why, like, again, with the Pokémon example, that's why they bring out, like, a lot of remakes.
00:52:53
Speaker
of like their old games and they kind of recycle that every so often and a lot of games do it I mean in terms of like Call of Duty I think I brought this up a couple of weeks ago with that term
00:53:04
Speaker
boots on the ground that drives me up the wall no like joke intended but it was always like when guys or people online were saying oh college is no longer a space shooter it's got boots on the ground that was supposed to kind of tug at your nostalgic heartstrings of oh did you hear that we're going to be running now and you're like
00:53:25
Speaker
that's a cheap move that is just so cheap to be like oh yeah boots on the ground means instantly it's going to be better than the last one that's like that this will sound
00:53:36
Speaker
That's not gonna sound terrible, but it's like, don't promise things like that. Like actually speak through your actions, you know, like make a good game. Don't like say, oh, we're gonna do this and that and kind of revert back to, you know, the good old days because gaming's changed. Gaming has, and I mean, like if you look at the landscape when we were growing up, FPSs were huge. Don't get me wrong, like all of these genres are.
00:54:02
Speaker
you know, FPSs were huge, platformers as well in the 90s, they were massive. Then it went on to sandbox games and kind of the like 2010s and you know and now it's Battle Royale games and it just like all the genres just have to keep going and changing and it's like a lot of them are trying to change but at the same time keep that nostalgia. But I mean a lot of games I think are failing like a lot of the big
00:54:30
Speaker
shooter games like again for code i don't know if battlefield did this but i know for code especially like now you go online and you can't like get into a lobby without people with like candy colored guns and you know it's like i don't remember that with like modern warfare like you would have the gold guns and things but you wouldn't have like you know skrillex like scribbled into the side of the like your a.k or something that's like
00:54:56
Speaker
What is going on here? So it's kind of trying to have the best of both worlds, I think, with a lot of games. And I mean, look at one of the most infamous examples, Battlefield 2, where they tried heavily cashing in on the nostalgia and then tried to introduce loot boxes. And it's like, you can't have your cake and eat it too.
00:55:21
Speaker
that is just and again it goes back to that idea of I wouldn't say a lack of innovation but you know it almost feels like that for the bigger companies anyway obviously because indie companies are smaller then you
Innovation vs. Nostalgia in Game Development
00:55:36
Speaker
would probably see them more likely trying to do something more innovative unless they're flat out trying to rob
00:55:41
Speaker
um ip's off with people like a remember going on to like i think it was like the google play store it was either that or righteous or whatever and it was like a version of fall guys but with hippos oh jeez it's just really surreal yeah yeah exactly oh god there's a name i haven't heard in a while but yeah it was just like going back to that idea of just
00:56:06
Speaker
Yeah, just caching in and whatever's popular. Do you know what one I'm thinking of now, which is probably going to be a streamed one? Remember Slender? The eight pages. Remember how popular that used to be? And then everybody and their mother tried to copy that game and it just did not work because it was like
00:56:26
Speaker
the initial shock. I mean same with like Five Nights at Freddy's and Amnesia because I always remember it is weird because did you ever play Amnesia before we played it?
00:56:39
Speaker
No, no, I think I'd only ever watched, uh, seen people play bits of it. Yeah, because I feel as if we've both probably got second-hand nostalgia off of watching other people play it. Because I remember we, like, eventually played it together, and we were going through this stage where we were both playing, like, you know, scary games and things, and we started playing that, and I think we got a bit in a random and we were just so bored. We were just like,
00:57:03
Speaker
Yeah, should we turn it off? Yeah, probably. We didn't get to do the good stuff. No, we didn't, I don't. I think we saw one monster and he just bugged off for a cup of tea and you're like, yeah. And I suppose that's kind of the negative thing. It's like that nostalgia building up, you know? And then once you get into that, you're like, OK.
00:57:26
Speaker
just here enough park yourself down here and just tell me why you're so amazing I think that's the thing with remakes I think you can tell with a remake
00:57:40
Speaker
when there's like actual like love and you know like respective and put into it to craft it compared to one that's actually quite soulless and I think that's when we were like there's nothing inherently wrong with my opinion there's nothing inherently wrong with remaking a game oh yeah you know as long as it's not just like a soulless remake like I think of something like I think the Contra series had a game
00:58:03
Speaker
recently, like last year or 2019, I can't quite remember, which was just apparently just awful. And it was just like, you're just trying to cash in on the, on the Contra name, you know, or something like, something like, uh, Tony Hawks, was it pro skater five? It's not the one that came out recently, which was, you know, the remaster of one and a pro skater one and two, which was actually really good. And I really enjoyed.
00:58:23
Speaker
And that was, you could tell that was kind of created with a bit of love and a bit of respect for the series. While something like, Tony Hawk's World Skater 5 was just something like, it was literally there because Activision were about to, were about to lose the rights to the Tony Hawk, like, franchise. So they like, quickly make a game so we can keep hold of it. And you're like, that's just like, uh, I'm fair as I guess that wasn't a remake.
00:58:41
Speaker
But like, you know something like that with a franchise that people have a lot of nostalgia for you're just pumping out something to try and keep hold of it, you know With the Star Wars Battlefront 2 as well as much as like they probably did put they put effort into it as well Like it did feel soulless when it was like, oh and here come the loot boxes, you know It felt like a way just like steal your money Basically, you know, it didn't it didn't have what it feels like not that I've played it and you know, maybe maybe I'm wrong because there's something like I
00:59:05
Speaker
the Final Fantasy 7 remake has been has been like done by people who actually care you know i mean and like actually want to like you know want to show their show their kind of love and their like adoration of the original so like i think it does come down to that if you do have like a soulless one that that's the real issue you know if you're gonna remake something you know again like have a heart giant you know giant corporations corporations you know have a heart come on but you know it is that way of like
00:59:33
Speaker
put some care into it you know at the end of the day. Do you think though that the longer a game series goes on though the more susceptible it is to be in like worse purely because of nostalgia? You know it's actually a really interesting point and I do think going back to that idea of like you know that suffering
00:59:52
Speaker
being a component of nostalgia. I do think if you have heavy nostalgia for something, you are more likely to suffer for it. As you say, as something goes on, this is something we talked about when we did our dive into the Halo series. And obviously we both have a good like, maybe love's too strong, but like a great like.
01:00:11
Speaker
of you know that original Halo trilogy you know one to three and then we talked about how our interest faded and how we kind of were disappointed or and or annoyed you know with the with the with like four and five ODST and things like that and as the series went on like definitely the nostalgia like my nostalgia for it for the Halo one could only sustain me so long
01:00:32
Speaker
with that franchise that, you know, like I don't, I didn't even buy it. I got given it. I think my parents gave it to me as a Christmas present. You know, it wasn't something that I actually went because I was kind of done. I was checked out and the same with the Call of Duty franchise for a while. I was just checked out of that and just was like, just wasn't that I would maybe pick them up, you know, secondhand and for cheap. While as before I'd have got them on release date, you know, it is that way. Like I do think I guess it depends. Perhaps perhaps your nostalgia can carry you through a franchise no matter its ups and downs. But I certainly feel for me, like,
01:01:02
Speaker
it can only go it can only go so far and i do think you are more prone to suffer because again as we said with the i think maybe something that's what maybe hit us most about the total war it may would have been different if like the original rome total war was a game that perhaps we we just were like oh that was fun you know but didn't didn't have a great like for then when the series sort of changed we might have been like oh well you know it wouldn't have like hurt as much in a way you know
01:01:25
Speaker
It wouldn't have been such a disappointment to us, but because we had such a love for, like, Rome and Medieval II and things like that, you know, it really, it was like, it was a real disappointment when the franchise went in a different direction that, you know, kind of was like, oh, I just don't like this. I mean, again, heartbreaking is probably too strong a word. Yes, it's like too hyperbolic. You know, it's like sitting there like a Roman emperor, just like, oh, my God.
01:01:54
Speaker
But it is, it's like that kind of, I suppose disappointment is like more an apt word of getting more disappointed because one of the examples, and I know it's like one I keep going back to, but in terms of like the Pokemon series especially, I remember there was like, don't get me wrong, there's like corners they have cut which is not excusable and that's like a whole episode on its own.
The Gatekeeping Effect of Nostalgia
01:02:17
Speaker
I remember there were some things that people said where they're like, oh it's too easy nowadays,
01:02:22
Speaker
And this is going to sound like a very old man thing to say, but sometimes I don't mind if a game's a little bit easier these days. Because it's actually said, we've got the further and further we hurl into the abyss of adulthood and elderlyness. It's the idea that we don't have as much time as we used to in terms of playing video games and things.
01:02:45
Speaker
And sometimes you just wanna flick on a game, you know, have a casual romp around. But you get all these younger spry gamers coming out the woodwork wanting a challenge, and that's perfectly fine if the game does have that. But there's plenty of games out there as well.
01:03:01
Speaker
I don't know, I think people, it's more the idea of when people use nostalgia to gatekeep where they're like, oh the older games were a lot harder and it's like, yeah the reason they were harder is because, you know, they were Gameboy games. I mean they were lucky they fit the game onto the cartridge. Oh, never mind. You know it's like a feat of engineering.
01:03:25
Speaker
medicals it's weird it's like the apples and oranges kind of analogy it's like you can't I mean you can't compare them as a series but and like objectively you know it's like the game of landscape has changed whether it's Pokemon whether it's college at a
01:03:39
Speaker
you know whether it's like even the Battlefront games as well like if you compare the two of them they're just both two completely different games because they're both drawing inspiration from more like what's current if you know what I mean yeah
01:03:55
Speaker
So it's like it's not like when they made Battlefront 2 I did not get the idea that they were basing like their combat and things off of you know the original Battlefront 2. Like it's completely different. Same name and everything much clearly if done on purpose. Same name but different mechanics.
01:04:17
Speaker
It actually reminds me of a comic. It's one where it's a guy who has a favourite video game and the video game's called Blue and he goes to the cinema because he hears that they're doing like a film version of Blue and then he goes there and he sits down and as soon as the film starts it just says the word to Blue but instead of the screen being blue it's bright red.
01:04:42
Speaker
And that's almost how I feel about a lot of like nostalgic properties. In that regard it's like same name and everything but it's kind of weird like if you ever notice that there's a lot of nostalgic games that although they're based off of other things they just want to put their own spin on it like with Goldeneye for example they don't want it to be a clone of Goldeneye they want it to be
01:05:05
Speaker
their version of GoldenEye. Yeah, they wanted to be a clone of COD. No, just 250 Cetius, but totally as well. I suppose there is that thing as well. Like if it is somebody, if it is a new team who are looking at it as well, like, you know, they probably will bring their own ideas to it. Maybe that's not necessarily a bad thing. You know, I don't think any game is perfect. Yeah. You know, I don't think, well, I don't know, maybe, maybe
01:05:29
Speaker
But I can't think of a game, any game that I've played that I thought I can find no fault in this. There's nothing, even like a slight imperfection. So again, it's not bad to bring new ideas. But yeah, at the same time, it is about having that respect and that kind of care. Because I think if you're remaking something, there should be that at least. I mean, be realistic. Don't be like, this is perfect and nothing needs to change. But at the same time, you should go into it with a bit of love for that series and be like, I want to bring this back so people can experience it again.
01:05:57
Speaker
Yeah, there has to be that kind of balance though, doesn't there? There has to be that kind of like a healthy dose of, you know, having those nostalgic elements that brought people in to begin with, but then at the same time having those elements of bringing something new and fresh, which I know probably sounds like that kid from The Simpsons where he says he wants like a down-to-earth, relatable story, but with killer robots, you know?
01:06:21
Speaker
It's a bit like that where it's like, you know, we want nostalgia but at the same time we want something new. I think you can do that though. I mean, games have done that where they've got the same character. I mean, look at Super Mario Odyssey. Same character, Mario, same from the 80s. And despite that, you know, despite Mario being like a 2D guy jumping around from left to right, you know, he's transformed perfectly into the 3D world.
01:06:51
Speaker
Yeah, the nostalgia's there because it's Mario, you know, it's the character. Like, I don't think people play Mario to go, oh, I can't wait to go left and right. It's like, they're playing it to be Mario, as it were, and re-love that kind of childhood. Over the Mushroom Kingdom and everything. Uh-huh. Yeah. Exactly. And that's exactly what, I think, a lot of game com- well, Nintendo especially. I think that's what they do, cash in on that when they're advertising, and
01:07:15
Speaker
they've got every right to because that is what's going to draw people in but it's just that kind of danger of making sure because I mean on the flip side as well uh I think you have I don't know if you heard about that they've released the the dn1 mario game oh of course yeah which actually is I think it's up this month so basically yeah it's like they released it for six months and now they're gonna like take it back off shelves for some reason bizarre decision I think
01:07:45
Speaker
I don't get it. It's something I'm just severely opposed to. I don't know why they did it, but you know, again, not a multi-million-pin company here. But you know, there's that idea as well that they're purposely beating people's nostalgia. And obviously they're not the only company to do it. I mean, EA have done it, Activision have done it, like with Assassin's Creed, you know. It is Activision with Assassin's Creed, isn't it?
01:08:11
Speaker
No, it's Ubisoft. Oh Ubisoft, sorry. Ubisoft as well. I mean Activision have done it. Hell of a lot. Yeah, with Call of Duty as well. It's just like, there is a long list. It sounds as if I'm singling out Nintendo but I'm really not. There are loads of companies, even though
01:08:30
Speaker
xbox and sony do it as well so sorry xbox microsoft and sony even they do it and it is it's just a danger as we said you know nothing wrong with doing that just make sure you're not doing it too much i suppose oh yeah definitely agree so yeah it's just before we kind of wrap up is there any kind of closing thoughts that you have on this just to kind of reiterate what we've been saying that there's nothing wrong with having being nostalgic for something
01:09:00
Speaker
Apparently, actually, video game nostalgia is one of the most powerful of all nostalgia.
Balancing Nostalgia with Openness
01:09:05
Speaker
Because I think a lot of it has to do with how we interact with games.
01:09:09
Speaker
because we are so involved in playing a game. It engages so much of your brain and everything. You can get a much stronger attachment to it than perhaps a film where you're more passively watching it. So there's nothing wrong with that. There's nothing wrong. Do be nostalgic and be like, don't be like, it's good that you did to enjoy things and be like, I like this as a kid and it's fine to have that.
01:09:33
Speaker
At the same time, I would say don't just be uncritically nostalgic and be to the detriment of accepting other opinions and gatekeeping and driving people away.
01:09:44
Speaker
Be open and I would encourage, share your passions and what you liked as a kid and a teenager, and why you liked it as well, and why it's important. Share the things that are important to you. But just be accepting that maybe not everybody will share that, and that's fine at the end of the day. But yeah, it is a good thing, but just be careful. Be careful with it as well. Don't let it become something that drives you away from people and everything, I would say.
01:10:12
Speaker
Be more accepting, yeah. Be more accepting. That's a distinct way of saying what I said. No, it's absolutely true. As long as, yeah, healthy doses are nostalgia. It's a good thing, but as the Greeks say, you know, there's a lot of pain and returning, apparently. Exactly. But try new things as well. Yeah. Try new things, but don't forget what makes you happy, essentially. Exactly.
01:10:35
Speaker
So yeah, just before we wrap up, again Adam, thank you so much for being the nostalgic co-host today and returning. I feel a warm and fuzzy inside. Especially 13 episodes on, I cannot believe that. I know, it's releasing to the Big 20, you know, what are we gonna do?
01:10:55
Speaker
I know, that is true. As always, thank you all so, so much for listening to today's episode.
Closing Remarks and Thanks
01:11:03
Speaker
If you want to find me elsewhere, you can find me on Twitter, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, and of course Twitch. Under the name, Satsanami42. I think that's everything from me. Do you have anything else, Adam?
01:11:16
Speaker
Just please keep listening and please keep supporting Satsu because he's doing good work here. He's doing good work. You're supported much appreciated. Thank you. And I've got like a mug as well for coins. They jangle when they shake it so don't make me bring out the jangle mug.
01:11:36
Speaker
It gets very annoying, it's easier to put the money in. It's like, don't do it. Don't do it. So yeah, as always, stay safe, stay awesome. Most importantly, stay hydrated and we will see you again next time. Bye guys. Bye.