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Level Up! A Conversation with Gaming Views
44 Plays7 days ago
In this episode, Satsunami talks to Dan H from the Gaming Views podcast to discuss all things gaming. Has the nature of gaming evolved for the better over the years? How has Dan found entering the world of podcasting? And is gaming art? All this and more in this PodPack collaboration episode of Chatsunami!
This podcast is a member of the PodPack Collective, an indie podcasting group dedicated to spreading positivity within the podcast community. For further information, please follow the link: https://linktr.ee/podpackcollective
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Transcript
Introduction and Guest Welcome
00:00:05
Speaker
Welcome to Chattsunami.
00:00:16
Speaker
Hello everybody and welcome to another episode of Chatsunami. My name's Satsunami and joining me today is none other than the other half of the fantastic gaming podcast Gaming Views. Dan, welcome to
Dan's Podcasting Journey
00:00:30
Speaker
Chatsunami. How are you doing tonight? Hello mate, I'm very good thank you and look thank you for having me on. it's ah I'll tell you now, it's very warm here. right now i'm in a very warm office recording with you not directly with you obviously that'd be weird but it's very warm where i am but yeah no i'm really good and look i'm delighted to be joining you today because it feels a little bit like a rite of passage coming on and chatting with you oh no absolutely because as i was saying you're of course the other half i'm not gonna say better half because the other dan will kill me it wouldn't be true either yeah
00:01:02
Speaker
ah Oh, no, come on, Dan, for legal reasons, etc. If you're listening. but Oh, he's going to kill me after this episode. But yeah, as I was saying, you're the other half of the Gaming Views podcast, which, of course, is a another podcast from the, is it right in saying the Casting View Cinematic Universe? It feels a bit like that. It's more of a multiverse now, I think. Yeah, kind of spun it off into its own thing. and and And Dan was very clear. He wanted it to be. Conceptually, we wanted to start with casting views because of the audience and the people and the kind of group that surrounds it. But he very quickly wanted to kind of spin it off into its own thing. And look, we're loving it. I'm the newbie. I go into the podcasting world in general, not to talking because I do that all the time, but I'm very much new to the podcasting world and Dan's been an amazing mentor, as have the group, you know, the collective. They've really helped me kind of find my feet and find my way and it's been an an absolute joy. We're on, think we go into episode 10, we record on Friday. So, you know, it's just skipped past, which has been brilliant.
00:01:57
Speaker
Oh no, absolutely. And I'm not just saying this because A, you're on and B, Dan's waiting in the wings with the baseball bat with the nails sticking through it. Honestly, you guys have been absolutely killing it. Am I right in saying it was May, I think? And I totally don't have your episodes up here going, yeah, it was May, but you've covered episodes like your gaming experiences, of course, talking about AAA versus AA, talked about Xbox prices, which I have to say made my blood boil. Not because of you guys, but you know, just the topic. In general, role-playing games, that was a fantastic one. yeah You've covered so many amazing topics. And of course, myself being a gamer alongside you two, I honestly really appreciate what you guys
Challenges and Community in Podcasting
00:02:40
Speaker
are talking about. And yeah, the one that gave me PTSD flashbacks was when you were talking about the collect
00:02:47
Speaker
Total Dushens. Yes. It was a cracking episode. but I'm happy to admit this. I was not looking forward to that episode because whilst I've had collector's episodes and all sorts throughout my potted history with games, it wasn't a topic I felt comfortable and familiar with. do you know what I mean? So Dan suggested it. said, look, I'll go along. I'll wing it. Right. Dan is the plan. Dan P is the planner. He does the whole structure. He does it. And then I sprinkle some chaos in and I think then we get to a certain place at points. And if you watch any episodes or listen to any episodes, you'll realise that. So he came up with his plan to do collected editions and it turned out to be, I think, my favourite episode so far. It was just a joy to record. There was some just genuine humour and camaraderie and funniness that came out of it. And especially when we were looking at some of the episodes and the bit about Steve, the zombie coordinator, who, you know, I still don't know how he got that job you know all of those sorts of things it just came naturally and I think that's the thing that Dan and I do so well we've known each other over 15 years now work together live in the same town so you know we spent a lot of time together and know each other quite well and our gaming habits kind of align in terms of that so when he offered the chance said do you want to do podcast on this stuff I was like yeah absolutely it's been a roller coaster but I'm thoroughly loving it and out curiosity see before Dan asked you to do gaming views with him and everything What was your experience with podcasts?
00:04:00
Speaker
Were you an active listener of them? Or, i mean, other than obviously the wonderful casting views, clearly you had that in autoplay. Obviously. Yeah, obviously. I have to say that, again, for legal reasons. Yeah. My red panda lawyer's waving me down here. It's like, come on, come on, say the line.
00:04:17
Speaker
but I've been a listener of podcasts for a few years, but mainly around things. I'm kind of nearly 50 and I've got to this where kind of like, you know what? I like absorbing things. So I've listened to a lot of the rest is history and things like that. And just trying to absorb as much information, even if it's just superfluous pub chat, just so I'm a bit more educated in certain fields. But other than that, that's kind of the extent of my experience. I haven't ever been on a podcast. I haven't ever given an interview on a podcast or been invited to. And I'll be honest, the one thing this has really helped me to I do i do a lot of presentation things in my work life and I watch them back and I absolutely up to that point hated the sound of my own voice. I know a lot of people say that, but it just irritated me to the point of I couldn't watch these things with the sound up. But doing this and being stuck, particularly I take care of all the video editing for what we do. So being stuck listening and what watching his stuff, I think I'm okay with it. I'm no longer allergic to the sound of my own voice. So, you know, it's helped me in that respect. But no, in terms of podcasting, no,
Balancing Podcasting and Personal Life
00:05:10
Speaker
no experience whatsoever. You know, funny you say that about what I like to call auditory Stockholm syndrome.
00:05:17
Speaker
Yeah. It's a great description. I remember that as well, whether did it for uni or after I left uni and I had to do ones for work and you have to listen back to your voice. yeah When I went into the lockdowns and everything, started streaming and I remember listening back. I have to say, although there's definitely a difference between when I started streaming and podcasting versus now, honestly, that is the hardest thing i think some people don't really realise when they get into content creation, and especially with podcasting, because you think, oh, it's easy, just slap a microphone down on the table and... Albeit, see, before you went into it, did you think, again, I'm not saying you thought, oh, it's going to be easy, but did you think it was going to be easy in the sense of, yeah, put the microphone down, just talk into it and everything will unfold in a perfect way?
00:06:06
Speaker
I think a part of me probably did in the back of my mind, but I'd spent a long time with Dan talking about, you know, the ins and outs podcast. podcasting because when he talked to me about his journey you know the three or four years he'd been doing it I was fascinated by it so I wanted to ask questions you know if I'm engaged by something I really want to know about it I'm one of these people who will if I'm doing something and it really does catch me I want to dive into it and know everything about it and so when Dan started talking about podcasting I kind of drilled him on what does it take what do you do how do you plan it knowing that I would never do any of those things if I did it because it's just it's not much within my gift I think I was a bit more mentally prepared for what it meant. i think the thing that I hadn't accounted for, because we went a slightly different route whilst we're doing the pod and Dan takes care of all the audio and everything in an amazing way and he edits it brilliantly, I decided to take on the video side of it. And so what I hadn't accounted for was the time and very steep learning curve I would need to go on to kind of produce something of limited quality that you can actually get online. Yeah.
00:07:03
Speaker
and So it's why it took us, I think, five episodes before we then went, right, okay, we're ready. Let's record this one, which was the Half-Life episode with the green screen, which was, again, probably calamitous thinking back to it. But actually, it really did help us kind of go, we could do this slightly differently and position things slightly differently. It might be a bit better. So
Exploring Content Creation and Gaming Industry
00:07:20
Speaker
yeah, I hadn't appreciated the really steep learning curve and the amount of time and preparation it takes. This is not something that people step into. And you're right. It's not just a, it's fine. I'll get a mic and it'll be okay. I think there is a lot of planning and structure and knowing how to do it. And you can very quickly tell, mean, even when I watch our stuff back or listen to other stuff I've done, like when I was on one of Dan's Casting Views episodes, You can tell, like yourself, you know the more experienced people who have years of doing this on a weekly or bi-weekly basis, you can tell you know they've got a skill that they've built over that time. And being new to it, I have to be very conscious what I'm doing. In real life, I am very, very sweary. Even at work, I'm like a sailor. So it's my natural patter. So when I come onto a podcast or when I do our podcast, I have to keep...
00:08:04
Speaker
I have to keep mentally telling myself, don't insert an F there. I think there are certain things, and like you say, it can be mentally taxing as well because you're thinking and putting thought into all of the things that are coming out. You're trying to reach back into the recesses of memories in certain occasions or even things you've recently discovered just to bring it up to be able to talk about. It's definitely one of those things that I think, especially with a lot of professional podcasts, that they have the very fancy mics. They've got the great layout and everything. I swear I'm not bitter, but...
00:08:35
Speaker
but Legal reasons joke, I swear. Don't sue me. Yeah, you've got these bigger ones, the flashier ones, and all they do is they sit on a couch and they go, oh, podcast, podcast. yeah You can tell I've listened to a lot podcasts. You know, they do that and then you think, wow, that looks so flawless and easy and there's no way that I can mess that up. And then, as you said, it's kind of a continuous learning experience. I mean, as you were saying there, you have to deal with the different types of editing, what editing software you're going to use, how you're going to put it out, when are you going to put it out, the marketing of the podcast. And then you slowly realise that these people who made it look so flawless, the reason it is so flawless is because they've got a whole team behind them. Oh, a horde of people.
00:09:22
Speaker
Yeah, it's insane when you look at it. There's a guy on YouTube who I've watched for a few years called Mr. Who's the Boss. And he does a lot of tech insight videos and he's very good. And he's been doing this. I mean, in fairness to the guy, he's done this since he was like 12 and he's now early 30s. He's massive. He's got a bigger following in NAPL and all this sort of stuff. But he's done some really insightful videos where he's gone, actually, this isn't me. I do this, but it's not me that does this. And then he takes you through his entire crew. And like you say, there's an army of people. All have got different jobs, whether it's shorts or TikTok or, you know, and they're all doing different things.
00:09:51
Speaker
And you're going, my God, he's employed. You know, he's probably got more people than I work with doing this for social media. So when you talk about the more, I don't know how you term it, but the more indie podcasts like you and I do, you are literally a one man bad or in the case of Dan and I, a two man bad. But we've decided to divide and conquer in a different way. When we started, we kind of said, look, it was just audio only. So we said, well, we'll split it up. So Dan came around and he showed me a few pointers around audacity and how to do some things in that. But then when it took off and we started do the video, i said, well, let me take that because there's no point in you knowing something and then trying to learn something new while you're trying to do the thing you're doing. Let me learn the new thing. You do that thing.
00:10:27
Speaker
and we'll kind of do it that way but that's not to say we won't eventually you know when i've got it to a place where i'm comfortable that it's relatively quick and simple to do simple it's never simple but it's relatively it's at least there's a pattern to it and something we can't a plan to it you know we'll cross pollinate and we'll both take up the pieces that we do but there's so much that goes into it and you're right i think i had taken it for granted before i actually started but i have to say i'm loving it just so much it's just such a joy to do I feel like podcasting, and then honestly call me out if I'm wrong here, but I feel like especially nowadays, it's like the Marmite hobby. If it really bites you and you really get into it, then you're never really going to leave it.
00:11:05
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. There's some who get into it or try to, and then they absolutely hate it. They drop it after episode two or three and go, never touching the microphone again. Yeah, I think you're right. I'd say it's more like a tattoo because once you've done it, it's kind of permanently out there unless you erase it, right? And stands up to some people who love having them, myself included. Other people go, I've had one. i don't want to get It's too painful. i don't know because I guess doing this and talking with you guys a lot and the Game Club pod and the rest of the crew, it becomes a little bit of an echo chamber.
00:11:35
Speaker
And that's not a bad thing because you've got all those sounding boards and people who can put you right or correct you, Joey, um when you've done something wrong. But I think it's a wonderful thing because it creates a community. And I think that for me has been a real big insight because when Dan talked about it, obviously he talked about you and he talked about the rest of the guys. What he didn't do, I think, was give me that sense of community that you guys had.
00:11:55
Speaker
You guys have all embraced me with open arms and, you know, look, but even just doing this for a couple of weeks and being
Gaming and Community Support
00:12:00
Speaker
invited on to live stream on the Summer Games Fest with the Game Club Pod was something I never thought would happen as an official partner. And that was just a lovely thing. And they didn't have to do that, right? I mean, they could have just invited Dan because they didn't know me from Adam. I could have come in and wrecked the whole show, but they had enough faith in, I think, us as a pairing that they were prepared to take that risk so you know and that's what i mean by community i think it's it's been wonderful what you guys are doing out there that is one of the hidden things that i don't think a lot of people really expect to be building up upon when they become a podcaster and it's the same with streaming judging from what the experience is but when you go into obviously you think oh i'm going to turn on the mic or the camera or whatever oh i'm going to be rich and famous overnight Yeah, it's a very reductive way to bring it down. But at the same time, there are a lot of people who just assume that, oh, they're going to get famous overnight. They're going to rake in the millions and everything. But the fact of the matter is without putting in the work there, And as you said, building that community, because I think that is something that, again, a lot of people coming into podcasting don't really realise as well, is that if you don't find that community, then it's going to be very isolating that you're not going to get very far. The only exception, of course, is if you're a mega celebrity before you go into podcasting, because that annoys me as well when someone says, oh, I just did my first episode and I've got a million views. And it's like, well, obviously, because you're rich and famous, so I think no sugar, Sherlock. Yeah, they're hanging off their name, right? and the white fat plates And they built a personalized brand or whatever it is, and but it's not the effort they put in. You're right. It's particularly in the indie world, you could very easily go into this seeing it as a competitive thing. And you're right, that's a very blinkered, narrow, quite possibly silly view. Because actually, if you embrace the community and it is something that you find support and candor and help in, I think that's a much more important thing than going into it going, I'm just going to smash everyone out of the way. It's just going to wreck any chance you're out of, like you say, building relationships with other podcasts. We could very easily be at odds with the Game Club pod, right? Because we talk about the same genre in similar ways. But Dan and I decided very consciously to come at it at the beginning from a, look, we're going to select a topic a week and we're going to come at it as these are two friends with a long history of gaming. And we've seen everything from right at the very inception, you kind of your Ataris and all the way through to your Intellivision, all that, all the way through to the latest. And we have never dropped that. You know, we've never stopped
00:14:29
Speaker
that So we very much wanted to come and tackle it a, guess, a slightly different way, right? There's still humour, there's still that camaraderie that we have, but it's also just two grumpy old men talking about games. No, I totally get what you mean there. And touching on what you were saying there about the...
00:14:44
Speaker
I mean, competitiveness is one word for it, but I totally agree with you in that sense of if you're succeeding in a hobby and you've got other people around you in your community or at the very least your sphere of content creation, you don't want to pull up the ladder behind you and say, oh, no, let's just keep you down there. I'm going to go up myself because after the four-ish years, I mean, in November, we'll be going into our fifth year of Chatsunami, which is absolutely insane. It's amazing. Yeah, it's amazing.
00:15:15
Speaker
honestly i'm sure dan feels the same way blinking and then being like how's it already four years of casting views but that's the thing though it's like you meet so many amazing people as you were saying with the pod pack collective especially you know we've got casting views and gaming views of course we've got the game club pod you've got howdy beans podcast seismic cinema all absolutely lovely people and there's so many more Yeah, I could list off but on the flip side I have also made not even just in podcast and I met a few but it's mainly been with streaming as well where they want to follow the steps to get famous as fast as possible. Yeah, but it's clear clear that they don't want to build that networking or relationships to basically give them a solid foundation yeah because that is something that is severely underrated I feel personally and I don't know how you feel that when you go into something like this you want people to depend on that if you're having a bad day in podcasting or you know content creation in general if you're editing software crashes which trust me it has happened all of at one point but you know you're sitting there and you think oh god this is a bad day and then at least you've got them to fall back on but it's as you said you've got people out there who say oh i'm gonna do it on my own oh i don't need you blah blah blah that kind of thing it just seems like a very narrow and short-sighted view yeah 100% agree. And, you know, and I've seen that even recently. so
00:16:44
Speaker
we recorded episode nine last Friday and that was the Xbox one. So we try as much as we can to take turns in kind of hosting. And that was my turn to host. And I had a pretty crappy week and I was not in the right headspace to do it, but I wanted to do it because we were in a pattern and I came out the back end of recording that and I was just like, that was terrible. Like I said Dan, I said, I didn't enjoy recording it. I didn't enjoy editing it. The whole thing just was for me felt disastrous. And Dan in his usual way, you know what he's like, it was like, no it was great you know don't worry about it you know it's all good because he's just such a lovely person and then I know there's the immediacy of I didn't voice that to the group or anything but then the feedback that we had on it you know
Issues and Impact in Gaming Industry
00:17:20
Speaker
you kind of get to that point I kind of got to the point where I come to terms with it it's probably a rough episode not a problem we can move on and then we got some lovely feedback on it and so it was like oh maybe it wasn't that bad maybe you know what I mean so and that wouldn't have happened without that community and I've always been a strong believer that a rising tide raises all ships right so if we can do that for others and if while they're doing it for us why wouldn't you I mean that's what humanity is about at the end of the day right I mean it shouldn't be trying to beat each other down it should be trying to lift each other up
00:17:45
Speaker
It actually a reminds me of one of my friends and fellow co-hosts told me this, that it's a bit like, you know, if you're driving with someone that can't drive, and it's like you make a mistake, or you know, you make a wrong turn or something, and you're like, oh my god, this is terrible, and then... they turn around and go, what a lovely journey. And, you know, they get out none the wiser. Because I feel as if, for listeners especially, that if they're not as close to the technical or at least behind the scenes aspects of podcasting, that they'll just listen to it and go, oh, that was great. yeah And then move on with their lives. Whereas I totally agree with you. You honestly listen back and you think, I could have said that better. I could have brought this back. point up and it's almost striving for that sense of perfection and i have to say if we we're all striving for it then none of our episodes would be out the way they are absolutely yeah you'd spend forever analyzing and over analyzing everything and kind of chopping here and cutting there and and to be honest that episode would have probably ended up at five minutes you know so
00:18:46
Speaker
which isn't what you want to release. All of this every day is is a school day, right? It's always a different lesson in something. And I have to learn to accept that I'm getting better incrementally with each thing, you know, and if I improve by 1% over the course of a hundred videos, I'm going to be a hundred percent better than than where I was. So I think it's just a learning curve and it's wonderful. like i said, learning, I walked into it, like I said, bit eyes closed when I started the video editing, but that for me has been just exceptional.
00:19:14
Speaker
I've just loved, I never thought I'd be at this point in my life teaching myself genuinely what is a new skill. You know, a skill you could take out into the open world because the software we use is kind of professional level software for this stuff. And you could take it, I mean, it doesn't, it's not reflected in the videos we're releasing yet, but you could use could take it out that skill set once you've kind of learned it and it's all kind of self-taught you know that for me has been another little side benefit of doing this entire thing and i've got dan to thank for that he brought me into you know under his wing to kind of do the whole podcasting thing and was brave enough to let me loose with videos of him which i don't know he's brave or stupid but it's i thank god he got rid of that green screen that's all i'll say because that could have ended up very nasty
00:19:53
Speaker
ah True. As long as you don't post the video of just him in front of the green screen. Yeah. I have still got the footage. I could put something else on there. I won't Dan, I promise. Yeah. I can hear Dan sweating in the background there.
00:20:07
Speaker
ah it's actually quite funny because speaking of teaching yourself new skills with it i remember again i was talking to one of my friends about this and i think initially said jokingly oh why don't you put the podcast on your cv and initially i was like a very funny joke and then he was like no no i'm serious because you've got the digital marketing in there you've got the editing granted the editing's not top class but it's editing yeah that's all i'll say it's editing i get myself up for it's a skill but yeah you're right it's a skill that you can put on and everything and again it's not something you really expect to get out of podcasting because i know there's a lot of podcasters out there and again not naming any names but they come on they speak their piece and then they go back to was about to say go back to the shadows i've got lord of the rings in my mind yeah Go back to Mordor. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, they go back and the other person edits it and produces it and whatnot. You're learning so much as you go along this journey. I mean, as you said, for better or for worse, because there's some episodes that you listen back to and you go,
Innovations and Evolution in Gaming
00:21:10
Speaker
Jesus, what was I thinking about that? And then other ones that you go, you know what? That was actually better than I thought it would go.
00:21:16
Speaker
It's definitely a hobby of peaks and valleys, isn't it? Yeah, absolutely. And I'm at the very start of this journey. So for me, there's been many more peaks than there are valleys. I'll make that continue, but I know it won't. But I think the more you can enjoy it and not focus on numbers and retention and audience and things like that, the happier you'll be. Because Dan and I never wanted this to be a numbers game. We never wanted it to be focused on your how many views we got, or how many subscribers or how many, you know, that wasn't the thing for us.
00:21:44
Speaker
This was, and certainly for me, i mean, Dan's been doing a lot longer, so I'll let him speak for himself. But for me, it was more of a cathartic exercise. I can, as you probably aware, talk a lot at length. And in my job, I try to temper that. I do a lot of coaching and mentoring with people who are coming through technology.
00:22:00
Speaker
So I try to kind of hold back as much as I can and follow that 90-10 rule, particularly when I'm doing one-to-ones and things, which is you're talking 10% of the time, they're talking 90% of the time because it's their airtime So when I get an opportunity to come online with Dan and talk about a subject I'm passionate about and love, he sometimes struggles to shut me up.
00:22:17
Speaker
I mean, he does a good job of it, but it's because I love doing it and I will talk a million miles an hour about something I'm passionate and love. And again, it is a little bit cathartic for me because then I can kind of get it out and you know, that kind of just, it goes and goes and goes. So I'm loving every minute of it the moment. i Totally agree with you. I think that is one of the hardest bits as well, when you get a topic that you're really passionate about and you want to talk about for ages, because as of this episode, we are preparing next month for Bioshock month. Oh, can't wait. So far, Dan and I did the first episode, which raw footage-wise, was about 2 hours 50, I want to say, which is a long...
00:22:57
Speaker
ah long, long episode to edit. And I thought, how could it get any worse? Enter Luke from the Howdy Beans podcast, where we have done an episode on Bioshock Infinite at an astounding three hours and 10 minutes. And obviously, both of those episodes aren't going to be those lengths. They're going to be cut down significantly, but At the same time, you know, it's one of these things that, and especially for me, I remember at the very beginning when I had really long episodes, I was like, right, that's it, putting an hour cap on it, I'm not going to have any longer than x amount of hours or Y amount of hours. And then when it came to certain episodes that were a little bit more serious, I thought, you know what, i have to basically give my guests the time to talk about these kind of things. Mm-hmm. A couple of weeks ago, I had the absolutely fantastic Mary-Anne from the Cold Case Kansas podcast
Gaming as a Shared Experience
00:23:50
Speaker
on, and we were talking about the very serious issue of harassment against female content creators and things. And when it comes to more serious topics like that, obviously you want to give it more time for the discussion to basically ruminate. they just give it time. The same with when my friend Andrew and I did the episode on, I think it was Perfect Blue.
00:24:10
Speaker
And again, we did that episode twice because the first time the audio messed up, but that is a story of another day. Yeah, we basically talked about topics that they are quite serious. And you know, what I'm trying to say is it's all right for people to talk about them at length if they need to. But all I'll say is for episodes where it's more of a lighthearted topic and you're really be passionate and you're kicking yourself after because you're like that was a great five-hour episode and then you're like damn that is a terrible five-hour editing section oh no that's it i do think that bioshock infinite one though will deserve a zach snyder style black and white director's cut edit i think yeah you're gonna need to bring that out at some point on the pod i don't actually know how you edit audio in a four by three
00:24:55
Speaker
the issue There must be a way. There must be a way. I'll tweet at Zack Snyder after this. I'll be like, I know you're filming Rebel Moon 3, but can you come back a second? I need your vision on this episode. love Bioshock. We've talked about it very briefly on Gaming Views, but I got the Switch 2 recently and i one of the first things I did was buy the triple pack. i don't know what they call it, but Bioshock 1, 2 and Infinite. And I ploughed through Bioshock 1 in about three or four nights. I just got addicted to kind of just going back in and playing the whole Andrew Ryan thing. And and now I'm about halfway through Bioshock 2, although frustratingly played for about an hour and a half last night, switched it on on the Switch 2, switched it on, had it on the big screen, played it for about an hour and a half. And then I was in a battle with, I got all the way through to the end the level in a battle with a big sister and the game just booted me out and crashed. And I started and I thought, it's fine. It auto saves, right? It's fine.
00:25:47
Speaker
No, it put me right back to where I'd started the game. so It's an hour and a half lost. Not my worst ever. Not my worst. Assassin's Creed Valhalla did that to me and I lost over 14 hours of gameplay. So, you know, you take the rough with the smooth. Oh, that is brutal.
00:26:01
Speaker
Yeah. hate when get I mean, obviously, I don't think there's anybody listening right now going, I love when that happens. It's like, no, you don't. No, no, get out of here. No, you don't. But, oh, the amount of times where you're like, it's fine, fine. Because I remember when I was younger and I'd be playing Pokemon or something on, you know, the old Game Boys or Game Boy Color. And the thing is, and I think a lot the younger, and I mean younger, younger listeners listening, what?
00:26:27
Speaker
and realize is that there was no flashing message of oh your battery's about to run out your battery's low it was just the wee led at the side that got dimmer and dimmer it was quite brutal actually because it's like your console's slowly dying auto saves weren't a thing right i mean it wasn't people weren't considering oh we'll put a thing in there just in case they lose connection or yeah no none of that you know no live service so it wasn't i could just jump back on when i get a connection see i have to say i am definitely not an expert in souls type games
00:26:59
Speaker
Oh, you know those types of games where people say, oh, this is an amazing experience. It's a great challenge. And it's like, okay, but how do you save? Oh, you can't save. You have to spend like hours in this place. And if you die, you go back to the beginning. I'm going to be honest. I play games relatively. If I'm not playing it for content, I play it to relax. So I'm like, I don't want to sink hundreds of hours into something and then be put back to the very beginning. And oh, it's a challenge. It's like, that's insanity. I think you're going to love episode 11. We've got Joey coming on from GCP and he's going to try and convince Dan and I why we should love Souls games. And it's going to be hilarious because I the anti-Souls game guy. just'm I'm in the same camp as you. I play games for fun and those things feel like a chore or a job. It's not my bag. We're going to have a lot of fun with that episode, I think. Do you know, funny enough, I've got a friend who actually wrote a dissertation on Dark Souls.
00:27:55
Speaker
Yeah. And don't get me wrong, it's a fantastic dissertation, but I can appreciate it from a technical perspective. of As you know, like when you see an artistic film and it's like, wow, that was visually amazing. It was stunning. You know, there was a lot of very complex themes. yeah Did you understand that? Nope, not at all. No idea. Yeah, most David Lynch films. try it Yeah, basically more like a David Lynch film. You're like, what in the David Lynchian hell is going on here? I challenge anyone to explain a razorhead to me with any kind of concept. like like but yeah I'm sorry, what? I mean, the closest I got was Twin Peaks. I'm like, yep, season one, season two, love it.
00:28:35
Speaker
Season three, not a clue what's going on yet. That was just full lunch. You're like... Again, it's something that I watched twice. I watched it when it came out. I didn't really like it. Then I watched it through again a year later with my friend. And, you know, it was like, oh, I appreciate the art of it. I appreciate the style.
00:28:52
Speaker
Is it something I'd be recommending to people to casually sit down and watch? Hell no. Yeah, not clue what's going on. absolutely. Because I know The Simpsons made fun of it where it's the guy dancing under a traffic light with a horse in his homework. going brilliant. I have absolutely no idea what's going on. It's the same with these kind of games where they do have a beauty to them and the lore's extensive and whatnot, but gameplay-wise, it's such a chore. Out of curiosity, where do you stand in that? See that argument for gaming where it's like, gameplay versus story what would you put ahead it's a great question i've always been and i've always been and very open about this i've always been more focused on a great story and a great single player story told really well and effectively and i think something like that it's in the mainstream now so i think people kind of take it as it is but something like the last of us you know and the stuff that neil druckman had done in terms of writing that and i always say it's the only game that ever made me cry because i have Three girls and playing through the opening of that. And then he his daughter, spoiler alert, it's not really because you've seen it, but his daughter dies. And that for me was a breaking point because I got incredibly invested in that as a piece of art and a story that I was a part of. So for me, that's always been incredibly important. And I would much rather play something that tells the story beautifully and has great mechanics than 10 minutes at doing something that, you know, is a great platformer or, you know, if I was given the choice, i not say I wouldn't play both because I normally do. But if I had the choice you said to me, do you want to spend four hours in this world doing this and it's beautifully written and, you know, tells a great story and has some really good mechanics? Or do you want to do this for half an hour and it gives you buzz excitement and stuff? I'd go with the four hours every time. So I guess if that's an answer, I think that's where my heart's always been. And then probably my catalog of games probably speaks to that as well. And it's interesting, one of the things, and I've talked about it with Dan in the earlier episodes of Gaming Views, one of the things I've spent a lot of time in was an early access game called No Rest for the Wicked. And the guys at Moon Studios who did, I can't remember the name of the game now, it's just gone completely out my head. But the game they did was essentially a puzzle platformer, like Metroidvania type game. They created this new game, No Rest for the Wicked, as essentially an an action RPG, but in
00:31:03
Speaker
incredibly punishing one almost souls-like in its approach and i got into it because of the guy i had faith in those guys because of their previous works i thought this looks really interesting i'd love to give it go so i downloaded and paid for it in early access started playing it actually got on quite well with it even though it was very punishing i died a lot but it didn't frustrate me because of how well it was well one how beautiful it was and how well it was written and structured but even they have recently just announced in fact i was watching the trailer today based on feedback from the gaming community they're now putting in worlds tiers with different difficulty levels because they appreciate that there are people out there who don't want a punishing, quite destructive to your soul game, but still want to enjoy kind the story elements everything else. so
00:31:43
Speaker
you know, I think that for me would be a preferable approach to some of these people or good developers who kind of go, well, it's just a challenge. You get good or don't bother. I would love to be able to play Elden Ring in an easier mode. And that's sacrilege to a lot of people who play that game. And I totally get it. I totally understand why they say that.
00:32:00
Speaker
As we always say on Gaming Views, you do you, right? But my opinion is I'd love do because I'd love to enjoy and appreciate the beauty of the worlds of that game. I bought it just like a lot of people did because it looked great and I'm always an early adopter, which is part of my problem.
00:32:14
Speaker
It's like an addiction. So I buy this stuff and i go, I'll give it a go. And then you play a couple of hours and and you go, this is too hard. I just give up, which is kind inevitably what I did. So you not only wasted 60 quid, you're kind of going, we've really disappointed buyer's remorse because actually I really wanted to enjoy it because I think it looks gorgeous. No. Yeah, it's kind of a rock and a hard place for these developers because on the one hand, they've now put themselves in that situation where they've got the reputation.
00:32:38
Speaker
It reminds me even before Souls-like games became a thing and obviously you had Metroidvania games and then you also had Skyrim but with X or Y, which always found funny. It's like, oh, it's Skyrim but with guns. And it's like, why I want to play that i want to play skyrim no i don't want to play it with guns you know i'll just mod it in but yeah it's like because they've got such an infamous reputation i feel as if there's that part of them that they want to continue that yeah and they don't want to make it accessible because it's going to alienate the core base that they already have because i remember even about that i think it was last of us 2 that had really really easy settings and i think it was more for people who wanted to experience the story but they weren't able to react as quickly and whatnot so the game itself really it was really interesting to watch because you watched it thinking well why would anyone play where the enemies aren't attacking them but
00:33:34
Speaker
Then the more you watched it, the more you thought, actually, that's amazing that they're making it so inclusive for people to come into this hobby and say, oh, want to try this out, even if it is an easy experience. But that's the thing I think a a lot of people, and especially the older you get, that you realise you don't really have as much time for games either anymore.
00:33:53
Speaker
Yeah. To sink thousands of hours in compared to these ragamuffins that are honking off-screen. Exactly. But also in those types games, thousands of hours repeating the same thing over and over again to get better at it, which is, you know, the very definition of insanity, right? Repeating the same task over and over expecting a different result. I mean, that's me playing a Souls-like game.
00:34:13
Speaker
You know, I'm going to beat him. I'm going to, no, I'm dead again. I'm back at a bonfire or whatever it is. So yeah, I get that view. and I would rather spend thousands of hours playing many more different things. And a prime example recently talked about Bioshock and playing Bioshock. I've played the game through in the past on a, well, probably had easy, hard and normal in the normal mode as that you would have done this time around. Because I wanted to enjoy the story again and wanted to really pay attention to the world and what had happened, I stuck on Easy Mode because I knew it would just give me, I could still play through it, but I could understand that it didn't have to be too challenging to allow me to do that. But that was a conscious decision I made when I went into it. And with the second one, and I'll do the same with Infinite because I want to listen and understand the world and the story and pay attention to that.
00:34:54
Speaker
knowing that I've already been through it two, three times before when I've played them I mean, I think it's probably the reason that I play a lot of indie games now, as opposed to when I was younger, and especially I used to be a Call of Duty slash Halo child. Well, sorry, I say child. My parents were quite, again, not strict, but they were responsible. yeah It was like if a game was 15 and I was under that age, they would be like, nope, Zatsu, you're not getting this game, and no amount of pouting would change up.
00:35:21
Speaker
But yeah, as soon as I turned 15, the floodgates opened and, you know, I started playing all the COD games, all the Halo, basically catching up for lost time. And I remember trying to play these at the hardest difficulties. And i have to say, I've played through World at War. That is...
00:35:38
Speaker
terrible game to play in veteran it's not even that it's difficult it's just kind of that cheap difficulty you know it's like oh there's a grenade that just spawned right beside you blam that's it and i mean i did it and i the mile high club mission in modern warfare which again i will never do that again i did it once on veteran yeah never again the amount of sweat coming from my hands that day when was like, this is terrible. I hear it. It took days to actually do that. But that's the thing, though. Nowadays, I'm like, do I have time? It's not even so much the time, I suppose. It's more the wanting to get something meaningful out of it. Exactly that, yeah. Because, I mean, ever since starting the podcast, and I'm wondering if you guys are the same as well, but it's that idea of that you're looking for lot more interesting games, like especially for the indie sphere as well. And there's been a lot of games that I've played. played and reviewed recently, like Creature Kind, which was deck building game that instead of focusing on the violence of it was more about debating creatures. It was just such a fascinating idea. And it's one that I never really saw before. And I was like, oh, that's great. I mean, another one, there was Ova Magica, which is just a farming simulator. And I thought, yeah, I'll play a couple of hours. What's the worst that could happen? I blinked and 60 hours of my life went. It is a very addictive game.
00:37:03
Speaker
But you get other story focused ones, like as you said, The Last of Us, What Remains of Edith Finch, Firewatch, Papers, Please, Jesus, that threw me through a loop. But I mean, do you find that as well that you're looking for? i mean, obviously that perfect topic, but also that perfect game that you think, oh, I can't wait to bring this to gaming views to talk about it. Yeah, absolutely. absolutely yeah I think a lot of our stuff up until this point has been focused more on kind of the retro side or certainly the earlier piece, you know, with maybe with a couple of exceptions. I find myself a lot more open-minded to the types of games, you know, before it would be, you know, your Assassin's Creed, your Far Cries, your things like that. They're kind of the big AAA games that you kind of, but I think They all became so homogenized and so to a point where go to point A, climb point B, C point C, and then go to point A. And they all became very samey. And that's not just the Ubisoft camp, to be fair. I think they all were like that. I think CODs become a regurgitative thing every year that you just kind of go, oh yeah, it's going to be another COD. And yes, it'll have bombastic single player for about two minutes and then it'll be online, get prestige, blah, blah, blah. So I do find myself, and whether it's an age thing or not, I don't know, but I do find myself on the lookout for games. Well, either looking for games that have an interesting hook or a different way of doing things, or that I can pick up and play for half an hour because they are small enough that they allow me to do that and not get so engrossed, or leaning back and looking at things that i haven't played in ages.
00:38:27
Speaker
But what the podcast has done is made me think about them in a different way or remember them in a different way. So when we did the Xbox one last week, I talked about Oddworld Strangers Wrath. Just talking to Stan about it. And then i was doing the video cuts for it and like getting some clips. i was like, my God, I loved that game with a passion. So I went and I found it on Steam. It was like 69p. So I got it and I was like, right, i'm going to go back out and started playing it. And it just gave me a big smile on my face playing it. So I think it's one of those two things. And then the sweetener to that deal is then whilst I'm doing those, there are certain games, bigger titles that I will look forward to picking up and play them sparingly rather than trying to rush through them. And I think that's given me a nice balanced approach to what we want to do because then we have stuff to talk about the kind of here and now or the retro, but also the stuff that's bigger that we might want to spend an entire episode talking about because it is of that scale or size.
00:39:16
Speaker
So yeah, it's definitely changed my view in terms of the types of games that I pick up and play. And an example of that on Game Pass, it was a great game a couple of years ago. i thought, just still on Game Pass called Lost in Random, which was kind of a story-driven card battler game. But it was brilliant. It an incredible game. But they've just brought out kind of ah a roguelike based in that same world.
00:39:36
Speaker
And I didn't realise it was a roguelike. So I downloaded it. I thought it was either a sequel or whatever because I hadn't read a lot about it. I didn't bother. I just thought, oh, I really enjoyed that world. I'll go back to it. Jumped on the game, realised it was a roguelike, which aren't my favourites.
00:39:47
Speaker
I mean, I quite enjoyed Dead Cells and I quite enjoyed Hades and Hades 2. But other than that, I'm not that fussed by them. The idea of keep dying over and over again doesn't entice me into a game. But this game, you know, I started playing now. I looked at the clock. It was like two hours later. I was like, I was only going to pick up for two minutes to have to see what it was like.
00:40:03
Speaker
so it kind you know it gets your claws into you another one that did that was inscription i don't know if you played it it's a it's a card battler slash eldritch horror type thing and again done in such a beautiful clever way but not a game i thought i oh that'll catch me and it did you know and i just wanted to keep going back to it and back to it just to uncover the secrets that it had so those sort of games i really enjoy as well because that is honestly the best feeling and isn't it when you jump into a game and you're like i have no idea if i'll enjoy absolutely i think the biggest one for me and if dan and the rest of the popak are listening they'll know exactly what i'm going to say here and now of course being mass effect where i had played about the first one when i was younger in fact i think i completed it but i kind of rushed through it you know i played a bit of it i left it for a while came back to it thought oh i'll complete it because it's one of the great games yeah completed that felt absolutely nothing i was like yeah okay that's a game and then as soon as you know i met dan and i met marie and luke and the pop art collective and they were like oh you have to play it you have to play it and i'm like fine i'll play it and then enjoyed the first one so much i played the second it was great and i'm like okay see if i play all of these you want to do a mass effect month and they were like absolutely and honestly it's one of my favorite months that we've done for chat tsunami because again it's that idea that people don't really and maybe this is just like me being nostalgic but i don't think people realize how important some games are for bringing people together absolutely Because I think nowadays, and there was something I was reading up on about game preservation and everything, and it feels as if nowadays a lot of companies are more interested in selling you a license. Oh yeah. As opposed to an actual game. You know, they say, oh, you can play this, but you can only play it for a certain time. Because I remember i used to love Overwatch. And again, it wasn't even so much for myself, but I had a friend who I played it with into the early hours of the morning. would chat about things. We absolutely loved it. And then one day they just decided, oh, we're going to can it. We're going to move on to Overwatch 2, which was essentially just the same game, but with... a battle pass and everything and I never made the jump.
00:42:13
Speaker
I just kind of fell into the void with the first game because again, it's one of these things that people don't think that this digital world is going to be so impactful and as as you were saying before with The Last of Us evoking such an emotion from you because I mean, honestly, the amount of games I've played and it just catches me off guard. so I think I've lost count of the amount of games I've cried at because the story is so good. Like the ending of the Spider-Man game, not expect that Get me Gears of War 3 and 2. Do you know the particular scenes? With Dom? Yeah, yeah. Both of them. It's always Dom. It's always Dom. It's always Dom, yeah. It's just absolutely got me. And again, a very similar thing about the father figure. And because we're doing Resident Evil month in October. where I was playing through all of them and one of the games I was playing was Resident Evil 8 Village which I have to say and this is obviously spoilers for then but I wasn't a big fan of like the gameplay or anything I don't think it was my favourite one but one of the things that really compelled me was the fact it was essentially like Taken but with fan fantasy creatures where the main character is a father just trying to get his daughter back and then at the very end i won't spoil what happens but at the very end that just absolutely way shattered me i was just sitting there like oh my god and again same with mass effects but yeah honestly people don't expect it do they
00:43:36
Speaker
I think it's people they generally don't consider it this and there's not everyone obviously some people like us do but you know that whole piece around connecting to the actual artistry of it because that's the emotional response right it's to the art of what you're being presented with whether it's the dialogue or the visuals or combination of all of them and the music it's like watching a movie in some of these instances you know in the games that you reference that you talk about but being emotional or have an emotional reaction to, it's the same as an emotional reaction to the content of a movie or something like that. and no one would say, why are you crying at a movie? Because they're designed to evoke that kind of response. So when it happens in a game, which actually you could argue you're more invested in because you're a part of that, you're playing out those scenes.
00:44:17
Speaker
feels weird to me for someone to go, I don't know why you got emotional at it. if someone was saying, I mean, no one would say that to me, but if they did, it would be, well, of course I'm going because if I was watching a movie of this, I'd have an emotional response. so why wouldn't I if I'm playing the character of the part?
00:44:30
Speaker
Yeah, I think people dismiss games as not as an art form when they very clearly are, which is, you know, is disappointing. I genuinely think that saying that games aren't an art form, especially nowadays, like I could maybe see if gaming was still stuck in, you know, the Atari days or Road to Oregon, you've got dysentery, you know, I mean, technically that's art in itself or even E.T. framed on the wall, but yeah, if was stuck in that kind of era you'd be like okay i can understand why people see it as juvenile childish but the fact that gaming has evolved to both technologically and the way as you were saying there that it evokes emotion out of its players because one of the ones i remember and it looks so basic in its presentation with Papers, Please, where essentially all you're doing is a day job. You're just stamping a ticket and you get to decide whether people go through or not this border to a very fictional dystopian hellhole. Yeah. Hashtag glory to Arch Stotzka. Yeah. But when you're playing that initially, you're like, right, okay, I'm doing this, I'm doing that. But I got completely numb to it eventually. i was just like, right, that guy's getting through. I don't care if you've got three kids, you're not coming into the country. yeah And then as soon as you catch yourself in that mindset, you're like, Jesus, what have I become? And that's exactly the kind of thing that these games do. They pull you in, they make you part of the story.
00:45:56
Speaker
I mean, in a more literal sense, it's the same with What Remains of Edith Finch. For the example, where you're literally embodying the last moments of a lot of characters. We did an episode on it a couple of seasons ago, and we absolutely love that game just for its presentation, the way that it shows off the story. And as you said, making video games and into an art form, which, I mean, you could argue the newer games maybe don't live up to the hype, but that's the beauty of the diversity, isn't it? Absolutely.
00:46:28
Speaker
The gaming landscape. Yeah, and you could almost argue that that, particularly when you look at something like Papers, Please, and the like you say, you get to the point where actually it's made you numb to that experience or that process that you're going through. That's almost a form of mind control because that's what those guys who develop that game want.
00:46:46
Speaker
They want you to put yourself to empathize and be in the position of either the people you're trying to let through or the person who's stamping to let them through. You're going to empathize on one or the other. If it's the latter, you're going to become numb to it because that is going to be how someone performing that role may well come. So it's like a form of mind control, which is weird, right?
00:47:05
Speaker
And that's the thing. I remember growing up in the early days of the internet and seeing a lot of people freak out in video games. You know, the older range videos where it's like, oh, I'm smashing my Xbox and I'm smashing my controller. Yeah.
00:47:18
Speaker
see in all seriousness i look at those videos and i rage out at games and then i daintily put my controller down because i'm like there is no way in hell i'm paying 100 pounds for another controller or whatever it is there is no way in hell put it down get a cup of tea a laca I know it's mainly kids right enough, but you look at that and think, oh, how silly of them, how can they be so invested? And granted, it's a bit of an overreaction, but it does show how powerful these games can become. The people look at it and go, why are you being so emotional over it? And then they play it and they go, oh my God, because touching on something that you mentioned earlier about how basically games seem to be getting a lot more accessible now, which I I absolutely love because for every Soulsborne game you've got a hundred others that you can get into a lot easier.
00:48:08
Speaker
One of the ones that, and again it came up when you were saying that there was a game that they added an easier mode to it so that you weren't having as much difficulty to experience the story and the one for me recently which I swear to god I'm working on the script.
00:48:22
Speaker
as we speak, but it was for the game Soma. Have you played that one? I haven't. I've heard of Soma. I haven't played it. So it's one of those games that it's made by the same people who made Amnesia. You can definitely tell because some of the puzzles you're like, right, go over here, go over there. And I feel as if one of the weakest parts of it was all the gribbly monsters that they put in because they're like, oh, it's a monster. And it's like, I'm already experiencing this existential hellscape.
00:48:50
Speaker
under the sea there's no one for miles there's robots that are begging for death and everything and i'm like you don't need monsters it was just baffling to me but they ended up putting a story mode in so that you could experience the game at your own pace I thought that was a fantastic idea. I genuinely, i was like, wow, I wish more games did this because it would be so accessible. And obviously not every game is going to be everyone's cup of tea, but the fact that you can get more people when interested in the medium of video games is just, at least for me personally, it's just so important because the more people you've got, as we were saying, loosely linking back to podcasting, you know, it's like you want to include more people into your hobby. You don't want to shoo them away. Absolutely, yeah. I talk about it all the time, quite openly, you know, but like i said, nearly 50 years old and people, because some people look at me like I'm mad, you know, why are you playing with toys? But, you know, I think there is that bringing people into that. I remember about two years ago, my daughter was doing a piece on life in Saxon England and the Vikings. And so I used Assassin's Creed Valhalla's exploration mode. which is brilliant because you can basically just put it on. There's no killing. There's no assassination. There's no death, is no blood, no gore. You're basically going around and it's telling you what life was like through proper research in Saxon times. They did the same with origins with the Egyptian one as well.
00:50:08
Speaker
It was a wonderful way for her to learn while exploring at her own leisure about certain things. And she could include that detail. You know, she was writing notes and stuff and able to include that in detail for a school report from a video game. Which is just a wonderful way to, not that I was trying to introduce them and influence them to play video games in any way, shape or form. You understand, Satzy. Oh, of course. yeah I mean, just because they now play video games all the time, that's nothing to do with it, I swear.
00:50:33
Speaker
And watch Star Wars and Marvel movies. Again, nothing to do with me. but But it was that same thing. They're not just there. You know, and they're not just there as a thing to throw away or it's just a toy. i don't know why you're playing with that. They're for kids, that sort of thing. I think they have a place. And as I said, they are genuinely, and in a lot of these cases, certainly the games you've mentioned, like, you know, what became Redith Finch, those sort of things.
00:50:53
Speaker
They are art in their own right. Blueprints, which I played recently. Fantastic puzzle games. but so layered and so complex. And when you get to some of the latest stuff and stuff I didn't even get to in it, but read about, there's actually social commentary on it about fascism. And you start getting down into some of the other layers and you're like, hadn't even clicked as you're playing some of this stuff. So the thought that goes into creating these, whether they're indie games, mainly indie games, I guess, and maybe some double A's because the triple A's, I think, like said, have got into this kind of repetitive pattern that just think bang glory colorful splashes and then it feels like almost very little thought goes into them now because it's just a cookie cutter thing so certainly in a lot of the indie spaces they become something so much more than just a game with a controller you know they are very thoughtful artistic pieces that i think that deserve their own merits It's that thing, though, that when you say that, oh, look at this game, it's so artistic, and then, of course, the person you're saying that to, they turn their head and it's like Call of Duty or one of the AAA games and it's all mindless shooting, and you're like, no, no, no, please look beyond that. It's easier to like, no, no, I've seen all I have to. Exactly that, which is, I think is where those types of people, not one that's pigeonholed, but those types of people who turn around and then go, ah well, yeah, then they're responsible for school shootings or they're responsible for stabbings. It's it's got to be because of a video game.
00:52:12
Speaker
And I'm like, so before video games were invented, no one stabbed anyone, no one shot anyone, no one did anything. But it's kind of a nonsense argument. Do you know what I mean? You've not seen a significant rise in these crimes because GTA gets another edition. You know what i mean? The data doesn't support the fact. So it's concerning when that happens. I think, though, it's because it's just such an easy way out for these companies. I don't remember i going growing up in the 90s, even before I was born, probably, they were blaming Pong for something. yeah Soviet aggression, probably. probably but That's Missile Command, isn't it, I think?
00:52:48
Speaker
Oh, sorry, no, that's Petrus. My bad, my bad. All those red blocks, you know, not great. But... yeah and com community poetry saying I honestly remember the Jack Thompson type figures who were like, oh, GTA is terrible. And especially in the UK, you'll probably remember this as well with certain people committing horrific crimes and they were saying, oh, it was because of Manhunt or GTA and And don't get me wrong, I do think there has to be quite a nuanced and mature discussion about what's acceptable in a game. If you look at Steam right now and you see some of the games that they've let through, and a lot of them, obviously they have adult games that are hidden behind the beads and whatnot. Why is this popping up? Why have Steam allowed it? And obviously there must be some criteria that they've met that they're allowed to accept. it but again it's like you always get that one game that takes it too far and then everyone's going oh that's not a game and everything so i do agree and to a degree that i think that there has to be a nuanced discussion about it but again you can't go thumping in saying oh i hate all video games because of this one horrific crime and saying oh it's because of doom or oh it's because of call of duty i mean if you die over and over and again i can understand why someone's angry yes to blame my whole crime and trivialise it based on that. It just, it seems baffling to me, especially that nowadays we've still got that going on. Absolutely, yeah. It is a little bit insane that, you know, you can choose a single game because it's hot of the moment or, you know, it's out there in the public domain and say, well, it's definitely because of that. Like you say, because you look through those Steam lists and you see those things, proper murder simulators and things like that, and you're like, But surely that's much more influential than quite garish, cartoony LA and driving around nicking people's cars or whatever you're doing. This is much more visceral and graphic.
00:54:44
Speaker
And wouldn't it be more like that? Yeah, but i'm not interested interested in citing that because nobody knows that game. So let's blame the thing that's in the eminent domain and people know about because it's easier. but Daily Mail readers love that kind of thing. You know what i mean? It's that kind of, yeah, I think it's a poor state of affairs. I think you're absolutely right. There is a conversation that should be had that says what is acceptable because there are some things that just aren't acceptable and I'm not trying to be a prude or anything like that, but I have young kiddies and stuff and I wouldn't ever want them and seeing things like that because I just don't think it's necessary. That goes for movies and stuff as well. There's stuff I'll watch it and go, Jesus, man, Jesus. And I'm not really affected by things like that, but I wouldn't want my kids watching it.
00:55:20
Speaker
So I think there is a grown-up discussion to be had, just spot on. It has to be tempered with that. Look, people should be given their own choice and freedom of choice to do whatever they want right because otherwise what are we it's just big brother but it has to be sensible right there has to be a limit you can't just let whatever you want out there like it's why snuff films were made illegal right it's the same argument right you know why and you see you you watch some of these games and you're like why just there's no need Because, I mean, it reminds me of games like Postal and, i mean, even a more extreme degree, that hatred game that was probably a Redditor's fantasy of, oh, the world is corrupt, so I'm going to do this and I'm going to do that. And you're just like, but why, though? Yeah.
00:56:02
Speaker
it's like why you do you want to play and again i don't want to sound like i'm clutching my perils here that's probably the sound you'll hear in the background ah why do we need a game like that i can understand a game like doom that is supposed to be very cathartic and you know over the top violence i mean obviously it's not appropriate for everybody but i can understand as an adult playing it you might want to let off some steam or whatever whether it's that whether it's orhammer 40k space marine for example you know that's over the top and silly but at the same time you can see why they do it whereas if there's a game that just whether it's sex or gore or anything like that you have to kind of take a step back and be like well why are you making it because you want to tell a story or do you have an agenda here there's no reason why certain games should be out there and again i've just passed the threshold of the 30s here yeah creeping up to my mid 30s and i'm like am Why am I sounding that old? Am yelling at kids to get off my lawn? It's not even an age thing, right? I think it's just being a sensible grown-up human being. Right, you want to make a game about a certain subject matter, I get it, right? And whether that's killing aliens or whatever, even you want to make it about killing humans, right? Fine, that's what you want to do, right? But you don't need to make it torture porn, right? You don't need to make it visceral and lifelike, like these body cam footage games and stuff. You're still going to get your kick as how you want. Why replace the humans with an alien? do you know what i mean? As an outlet, there's ways to approach this and do this that don't necessarily need to be harmful or damaging to anyone's psyche. And now I am standing old.
00:57:29
Speaker
But I think there are ways around it and it's just ill-considered for platforms to then go, do you know what? It's fine because it meets a certain set of very light criteria we've set and therefore we're happy to sell it. you know Because you know we all know the sort of things we're talking about. Everyone's had a look on Steam and gone, Jesus Christ, what is that? Yeah, it's it's not a great state of affairs.
00:57:48
Speaker
Because a couple of weeks ago, I was chatting to the CEO of a indie game studio, and I totally recommend reaching out to her for gaming views, because honestly, I'm an amazing person. But I was talking to the CEO of Valiant Games Studio, and we were talking about, as I was saying before, that game Creature Kind, which is essentially a deck builder that initially you think, all right, you have to go into this world and... fight creatures and stop them from taking the magic from the world.
00:58:17
Speaker
But then you realise that the angle of it is more to do with sustainability. That you aren't beating up these creatures, you're going up to them and saying, well, can you not use all that magic to bake a cake? Or can you not use all that magic to get the perfect date? Or whatever. You know, it's like really silly reasons and over the top. But the thing that really stuck with me, both with that game and my conversation with her, was that these game developers do have a somewhat responsibility for what they are putting out there. And in terms of Creature Kind, it was all about that message of sustainability in the accessible way. You know, it wasn't just preaching saying, you're bad for taking resources. You know, it was lighthearted. It had quite a nice lo-fi track and everything. But, you know, if they went in heavy-handed, that probably wouldn't have been as, well, It wouldn't have been as conductive, but at the same time, you've got that message and that sense of responsibility. Whereas I feel as if, and obviously it's not every company nowadays, there are companies who do that as well, but you've got other companies that are just pumping out these games that either aren't really contributing anything to the gaming landscape. And don't worry, this is a whole topic in itself that we can talk about for another. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's just it's a shame seeing lot companies adopt certain harmful models that aren't really pushing anything forward. Because I have to say my partner, she does not like video games as much as I do. She doesn't really grow up playing them. And remember when they first met, I was like, oh I'm going to show you this cool game called Castle Crashers. And she was like, yeah.
00:59:53
Speaker
Okay, and you know, it's a cartoony beat-em-up game, and eventually she played it, and she absolutely loved it. So much so that one day she was off work, and she decided just to play through the whole game.
01:00:06
Speaker
I was like, my God, this is her soul's born. She's really good at it. The other one, of course, is Overcooked, which if you ever want to test your marriage and or relationship, seriously, play Overcooked. The amount of stress you get playing that game, you see it burning and you're like, no, cut the onions.
01:00:25
Speaker
i watch I watch my kids play that. They play that and they play the Goose game as well together. I play it. And also Astro Bot, which I got them recently, which they absolutely love playing. It's brilliant game. It's also absolutely mental and I really enjoy it. but no My wife's very similar. The extent of her playing was probably Mario Party and Mario Kart World.
01:00:42
Speaker
You know, she loves a bit of that and we all play together as a family, but she's generally not interested. but When I've got something on, she'll either be sitting on the sofa doing working like a grown up or kind going, you know what? going to go and read in bed while I sit down and kill zombies or whatever I'm doing. at that moment in time. So she's not, she occasionally I'll put something on, what I put on South and Midnight, that's been a couple of months ago now when I was playing through that. And she was like, it looks really pretty because it's built in that stop motion type animation way. And she really enjoyed the cut scenes to that, but it's not, I'd never come in and catch her finishing a game or anything like that completing a goal or even playing a game to be honest. It's not really her bag. but that's fair you know we've all got our own things i was saying dan earlier i just picked up they've done a special edition xbox meta 3s headset i decided to buy myself one because i can now sit downstairs still be present but i'll be on a cinema screen in my headset playing on my games while she can watch netflix or whatever so oh that's so good though isn't it i was just like shall i buy it yes i will because then i can do gaming stuff for gaming views this is my excuse for everything now everything's going to come back to the podcast it's my hobby it's research yeah exactly it's a business expense funny enough we bought the i think it was the quest 2 this was ages and ages ago we picked it up one night thinking know
01:01:57
Speaker
well let's give a go and never really tried vr and the first time you i mean you'll know this yourself but the first time you put it on you're like my god i'm in the future yeah it is it is absolutely incredible and you know we're playing things like beat saber there was honestly just tons of them the star wars ones i nearly punched a hole in my ceiling yes trying to hit something as it flew over so the less said about that one the better They are truly brilliant. I had the PSVR, ah the original one, which my daughter actually broke because she was playing, ah it was like a cat and mouse game and she was trying to catch a mouse and she leant forward too much and obviously spatial awareness in those things is not great. And spen certainly not when you're about nine years old with a heavy headset on. She just fell straight forward and smashed it.
01:02:40
Speaker
Luckily, she came out unbruised. And then I bought the PSVR 2. And I think it's just disappointing that the support for it hasn't been there. So, you know, we've got a bunch of games and played a bunch of games and they were great. But then it kind of died off and Half-Life Alyx didn't come out on it. So I just put it away and it's gathering dust. I think dust is in the cupboard. But this one I bought more for, like i said, I can sit and game while not monopolize the TV and stuff as well. So that was more the intent for this one. But I will get a sneaky VR ah session or two out of it, I suspect as well. Oh, absolutely.
01:03:07
Speaker
No, you have to. Yeah. Do it for the pod. Oh, yeah. Dan said the same thing. He said, I'm on a video of you with your arm flailing around. I was like, I don't need a VR headset for that, be honest, Dan. I remember when I was out for one of my friends' stag do's and we did the VR. Before I go on, we were all totally sober. I just want to point that out.
01:03:23
Speaker
But I remember we were playing this kind of shooting game and it was in a big arcade, but we all had the headset. We had a huge arena that we could go through. And in my mind, you know, seeing all the walls fall down and everything, I was like John Wick, you know, peering around, you know, bang, bang, trying to go round. Yeah, I must have looked like a right corner. Yeah.
01:03:44
Speaker
I was sitting being like, why is this guy labeling about it? And it's like, hey, I'm John Wick. You knew the raw footage of that, didn't you? needed someone to play it back to you. I'm pretty sure Geneva would have something to say about that. I didn't watch that. It's like, no, no.
01:04:00
Speaker
It was burned. but But funny you mentioned that, just as a kind of closing point about having your own space for gaming and letting your lover ones, of course, use the TV. i mean, that's partly why I bought a Steam Deck, was because... I think the whole Resident Evil fandom will probably kill me for this, but I played all of the games on the Steam Deck from 1 through to 8, purely because I had them on my Steam account anyway. And I thought, you know what, this is really cool that I'm able to take the Steam Deck, I'm able to just walk around the house, play it and everything.
01:04:32
Speaker
And it's just, it's so elaborating now and there's a lot of conversation around it. But I just love the fact that nowadays we have portability and portability. console that isn't just the ds or i mean don't get me wrong the switch is nice and everything but i feel as if there's only so much you can get out the switch agreed yeah whereas with the steam deck and i know there's the asus one can't remember what that's got the rog one or rog and obviously the xbox have got the airscam which will be very interesting to see what they do with it but it's good to see that shift i don't think in and the future that will replace console gaming entirely but it's definitely a good stepping stone for sure yeah i think that more and more that is merging and interestingly i've already said to dan and my wife actually who puts up with my nonsense all the time so i put aside some money for the asus rog xbox deck which is think launched in october i think i will be picking my number because i was about to buy a steam deck and then i was like but that just this week i'd signed up to the windows gaming preview which consolidates xbox game pass and steam and epic and so all of those things now appear in my game library for xbox so it's already happening in preparation for the launch of that handheld and you're right i think it's a wonderful thing to bringing these things together and bringing these disparate gaming whether you're on good old games or whether you're on epic or whether you're on steam or whatever but having a centralized place to be able to play these or a centralized thing to play them on no matter what it is whether it is game pass on a pc on a desktop like i've got or downstairs on the xbox or on a handheld you've bought from something else or eventually maybe we see it on the switch because you're right and the switch 2 is a beautiful piece of hardware
01:06:16
Speaker
It's so well made. It's so well put together. It's so much more grown up than the Switch was. And I'm really enjoying it. I don't think ergonomically it's built for handheld. For me, it doesn't feel quite right. And I've played on a Steam Deck and that feels much more the way I think it should do.
01:06:31
Speaker
But it looks great on the 4K TV. You know, they've done a really nice job with it. But actually, it's limited in terms of the games and things that it's got and the types of games it's got. And yes, all right, Cyberpunk's out on it and stuff and woohoo, but
Future of Gaming Platforms and Industry Shifts
01:06:43
Speaker
COD's not on it. those sort of other games. So actually if you could bring those all together and launch everything off of one place and no matter what it is, that for me would be the utopia I think. Oh no, I totally agree with you. And again, this is definitely another episode that I'll have to invite you and Dan on for because Because there is definitely the discussion of, and again, I don't want to make it sound more serious than it actually is, but you know, the boundaries between certain companies are blurring now, where, as you said, you want a console that basically consolidates everything, and Nintendo seem to be the lone wolf in that yeah respect. that obviously other than emulation and ROMs and at Chatsunami for legal reasons we wink wink do not condone that because trust me the Nintendo lawyers they scare me and they should well maybe it's that or it's the thought of a short Italian plumber hitting me with a hammer but that's another thing I'm And the Bob Hoskins voice. Bowser come after you, the real one, not the big turtle. Burning the house down. My sleep paralysis demons are side here. I do think that it's quite interesting to see that nowadays, you know, all the age of exclusives and things like that are just completely melting away. And on the one hand, it's kind of sad to see that they're not putting as much focus on things like Halo or the infinite amount that yeah PlayStation have.
01:08:03
Speaker
because even though for some weird reason they keep getting all the exclusives like with silent hill which i think eventually it came on to pc can't remember if it came on to pc after a certain period because there's been quite a few games like that where it's come on to playstation and then eventually it comes on to the xbox yes and vice versa but that seems to be getting less and less apparent yeah it's more getting everyone to just play the same game and don't get me wrong i feel as if the identity behind these types of games are maybe getting more diluted but at the same time as you were saying it's just great as and again i'm not trying to age us up here to say as older gamers but you know as gamers on the go that's probably the pr appropriate yeah Yeah, I think you're right. I mean, there is no way in hell that if we were sitting there having in this conversation even five years ago and you said to me, Gears of War is going to be on the PlayStation later this year, I'd have looked at you like you' just fallen off the moon. do you know what mean? Because it just it just wouldn't have been a thing. And yet here we are. Absolutely. We are literally a couple of months away from Gears of War on the PlayStation. This is it mad. All I'll say is to wrap up, I cannot wait for a generation of PlayStation players to get traumatised by Dom. It's fair. That's all I'm saying. That's fair. That's fair. They'll play the first one and go, ha ha, funny space game. And then just you wait.
01:09:22
Speaker
They never thought this episode would end like this. ah Exactly. And on that very depressing note, I apologise.
Closing Remarks and Podcast Promotion
01:09:29
Speaker
Dan, thank you so, so much. No, thank you.
01:09:32
Speaker
Thank you. It's been a pleasure. And before we wrap up, where can these amazing Pandalorians find your content? So we are on any available podcast channel, any and all, if Dan's done his job properly, which I'm sure he has. Yeah, so Gaming Views podcast. And then we're on YouTube. Our channel is Gaming Views Pod. So if you want to see our ugly mugs, I always say to Dan, we've got a face for podcasting. So if you want to come and check us out and see us grinning and mooning on, not mooning, that's the wrong phrase, grinning at least on video, come and have a look. And if not, yeah, any podcast channel you find us on, we're all good, pods live. And yeah, I honestly cannot emphasize enough. And I'm not just saying this because you're here. And as I said, Dan's still waiting in the wings with that bat with the head through He's got really strong legs.
01:10:16
Speaker
But anyway. He's been standing there for a while. Yeah, just tapping slowly. But yeah, in all seriousness, for all the pandalos listening out there, are please go check out Gaming Views and check out on YouTube. Check it out on where all good podcasts are found because genuinely it is a fantastic podcast.
01:10:34
Speaker
I have been binging my way through them. I think it's a fantastic addition to the gaming podcast sphere. So definitely go check out, listen to it give them a follow, a like, everything. Just go ahead. Go for it. Thank you, mate. But if you would like to listen to more of our episodes, as well as with the other Dan, hopefully in the future with yourself, Dan, then you can listen to our episodes at our website, chatsanami.com, as well as all the podcast apps. I also want to thank our amazing Pandalorian patrons, Robotic Battle Toaster, Sonia, Ghostie, and Cryptic 1991. Thank you all so, so much for supporting the show. but if you would like exclusive episodes, commentary tracks, early access, as well as the uncensored version of Dan and Dan mooning on YouTube, for legal reasons that last one's a joke, then you can indeed check us out at our Patreon page, patreon.com forward slash. Chatsunami.
01:11:26
Speaker
This podcast is of course a member of the Podpack Collective alongside the amazing casting views and gaming views so if you want to check out more podcasts like that then you can check us out at our twitter slash x page Podpack Collect. But until next time stay safe, stay awesome and most importantly stay hydrated.