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The Controversy of Bioshock Infinite || Bioshock Month
43 Plays3 days ago
After an ominous invite to the depths of PodPack City, Satsunami dives deep into the world of Bioshock. Featuring guest co-hosts from Casting Views, RoboticBattleToaster, Howdy Beans and Game Club Pod, this is one month that you will want to submerge yourself in. So grab a podcast Plasmid and listen to us somewhere beyond the sea!
In this episode, Satsunami is joined by Luke from the Howdy Beans podcast to discuss the mind bending timey-wimey Bioshock Infinite! But after 12 years, how has Bioshock Infinite held up? What do the duo think of the contentious ending? And WHY would you need crows shooting out of your hands?! All of this and more in the latest episode of Chatsunami!
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Transcript
Escape from Podpack City
00:00:02
Speaker
Alright, it's been three weeks since I got trapped down in Podpack City, but I think I've finally found my way out. Just got to climb up this lighthouse, enter this suspiciously placed pod at the top, and then I... Wait a minute, is that Luke?
00:00:15
Speaker
Howdy, Satsu. Did you get invited to Podpack City too? Uh, yeah, of course. that Never mind that. Why you up here instead of down there? And why don't you have a fidget spinner on your arm? Oh, you mean this skyhook? Oh, it's really cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Very cool, very cool. Listen, I've got to get home.
00:00:30
Speaker
Do you know how to get off this s thing? Oh, it's super easy. Dan only programmed it with two buttons. This blue button should take us home, while if I press this red button like so... Then it should shoot us into the air towards his holiday home in the sky.
00:00:44
Speaker
Well that's a robot. Wait a second, did you just press that red button? What? This button? Stop pressing it! How do you get of here? Relax Satsu, you see that green button over there? Way ahead of you.
00:00:57
Speaker
That's the button to confirm the launch. It's actually the red button beside it that cancels the sequence. Oh no.
Bioshock Series Overview
00:01:05
Speaker
Welcome to Bioshock Bar!
00:01:10
Speaker
Hello everybody and welcome to the third day episode of Bioshock Month. My name's Satsunami and joining me up in the clouds is none other than the one and only Skyhook Master himself. It is Luke from the Howdy Beans podcast. Luke, welcome back. Oh, it's an absolute pleasure to be back.
00:01:29
Speaker
And I'm high on life and I'm high on altitude. Can we get down soon? and I don't know. i think we're going to have to phone Dan and see if we can get a sky taxi. Whatever that looks like. It's a long way down. I'm not going to lie.
00:01:42
Speaker
but Yeah, I haven't brought my parachute. I don't fancy falling. So it a bit terrifying up here. I mean, I think I can see my house from here and the Chatsunami studio as a whole. Oh, there's the Howdy Beans studio. you Oh, somebody painted it Hmm.
00:01:55
Speaker
Is that why there's a big quest marker on top of it? Return here, please. I'll be there soon, soon. Oh, it's passed by now. That's a shame. Well, I guess while we're up here, we might as well talk about another Bioshock game. So last week I was joined by the fantastic Robotic Battle Toaster where we discussed Bioshock 2 and all the lovely themes that came with that. The week before, I talked off it Dan's ear about the... Interesting theory of objectivism and the lovely politics of rapture. So yeah, this week, as we said, very subtly, would you believe, we are skyrocketing in the air and we are going to talk about the third entry of this iconic series, Bioshock
Bioshock Infinite: A Critical Analysis
00:02:40
Speaker
Infinite. So before we go on and talk about the, let's face it, very interesting development and story of this game, I'm going to it on to you first, Luke. Oh, Joyce.
00:02:51
Speaker
So what is your history with this game? Well, I think it's the same as probably like most people. I played Barshock 1, Barshock 2. They completely blew me away. I used to have dreams about Barshak. I know it's a weird thing to say. It was like my siren call. I used to go to sleep and it would call to me and I'd have to have like routine trips back to Rapture to kind of appease Ryan and Atlas. And I loved it. I'd replayed Barshak 1 and 2 on the Vec360 over and over again.
00:03:16
Speaker
And then when they said they were finally going to do a Barshak 3, I didn't care what it was or what it was going to be. I just wanted more of this world of more Barshak. And then Barshak Infinite came out. I got it day one, played it. And I was a little bit disappointed because it wasn't what I wanted it to be. It wasn't Rapture, even though I knew that the story there had ended and there was no reason or a point to go back because everything was wrapped up nicely. The city had fallen and that was it. And I feel like that is why this game probably didn't do as well. It's the fact of when you asked me about Bioshock Infinite, about coming on and talking about it, I sat and thought about something that people talk about a lot. Why is it something that is not widely loved or cherished as the first one is? And my theory is, I feel like when you come off Bioshock 1 and Bioshock 2, specifically Bioshock 1 and the twists and the turns that that had and the world building and the characters, when you ride that wave of that...
00:04:06
Speaker
game then you go on to bar shock free hoping that it's going to be the same thing then when you get to columbia and you realize that it's completely different and it's like a new story new characters i think it's a bit disappointed to some people but i feel like that is the essence of what bar shock is bar shock is about a utopia about a city about an idea about a concept about people going off and trying something different and then it crumbles and falls where I feel like the difference is with rapture is that when you get to rapture it's already fallen it's already had its rise and golden age and fall and you'll get in there when it's ended whereas when you get to Columbia it's still at its golden age and that you are at the heart of its downfall because of your actions and what you decide to do with Elizabeth and stuff like that and over the years it's been one of them things where I've come back to infinite and i appreciate more each time I play it because I noticed little bits of details. I can really appreciate what they were trying to do, what they were trying to say. where it was like, they're still keeping it connected to Bioshock, the idea of lighthouses, and there's always a lighthouse, which I love. But they were also trying to do something different because they knew they couldn't do something the same. so it was like, let's take that idea of a utopia put it in the sky and let's tell a new story with new ideologies, new concepts, new people, new characters and see where it goes. So for me, I think that's just what is the epitome of what Bioshock means.
00:05:21
Speaker
It's the idea of a concept, an idea of a city, of a people and to watch them crumble and then to be involved in it either after or during or before. And I love that. I just feel like it's absolutely fascinating. So long story short, to answer your question, when it comes to Bioshock Infinite, I didn't appreciate it at first, but as the years have gone, it's been one of those games that i come back to and I think fondly on. And I do feel like it's an underrated and underappreciated game in the series. And I feel like if they ever do make a Barshak 4, it will be one of them games that people will look back on and go, oh, you know what I didn't give it the love that it it deserved. I didn't appreciate it like I should have done. But it's only time. Hindsight is beautiful thing that we can look back on. So that's my sort of hope anyway on it. But I love it. I think it's absolutely brilliant and a really underrated game in the trilogy series. No, I'm totally with you there, because, and this is something that I'm sure will stoke the ire, as it were, of the Bioshock community, but this was my first Bioshock game. Oh, wow. Yeah, all the way back in 2013, and I have no idea why I bought this game. I'm trying to think back. I remember I was a uni student at the time. I saw it was on sale on Steam. For some reason, I thought, you know what?
00:06:30
Speaker
I'm gonna try Bioshock because think around the same time I'd been spoiled anyway by the very famous twist of the first game. Ah, would you kindly. Yeah, exactly. The second game, kind of saw bits and pieces of it. never really watched the whole thing, but I saw what it was about.
Artistry and Atmosphere in Bioshock
00:06:50
Speaker
I wasn't really brave enough, to be quite honest, to play those kind of games. So I thought, you know what, I'll try Bioshock Infinite for what? ever weird reason again it's like what you were saying earlier that kind of siren call you know that way when a game just speaks to you and the moment that was bioshock infinite for me i saw it it looked really interesting it was getting a lot of good reviews so i thought you know what screw it let's just buy it let's try it absolutely fell in love with it i fell in love with the setting i fell in love with the characters i thought their themes and things were so thought-provoking it was honestly one of my favorite games at the time so much so that my very good friend adam and i would you believe four years ago we released an episode on bioshock infinite and i listened back to it today and although it's a good episode i struggled to listen back to it not because we said anything bad it's more my editing style because it's all the way back In season one, was like, oh my God, there's so many likes, umsas. I'm like, oh no. But, you know, we both absolutely loved this game. We thought it was incredible. We had to talk about it. And at that time, would you believe, had not played the first Bioshock game. I hadn't even played the second one. I had just played this. I thought, let's do an episode on this and then I'll eventually play Bioshock.
00:08:15
Speaker
Four years later, I played Bioshock. the first one to my shame to my eternal shame but played it and then playing Bioshock 1 and 2 really put it into perspective to just why people don't rate this one as high because after playing it I was like i don't see why people don't like going through Columbia and the and the mind-bending twists and things, but after you see the absolute beauty of Bioshock, and I said this in the very first episode, that is just art. If you're looking for a video game that can be classed as art, I would definitely put Bioshock up there. Agreed.
00:08:52
Speaker
lately. Bioshock Infinite that though, initially, if you asked me before I played the first one, I would have said 100%, put it up there, put Elizabeth and book her up there, definitely. After replaying that after playing the first one, there are some very noticeable cracks in the game. Again, not to say it's a bad game, but it's quite funny because when I was listening back to what I said about it all those years ago, I don't think my opinions changed that much.
00:09:21
Speaker
The only difference is I think if anything it's maybe gone down a little bit If I'm comparing it to the first game and even the second game Which everyone told me that was a bad game Lies Yeah, oh oh it's a bad game, it's not as good as the first one It's like, well no, you know what, of course It's not going to be as good as the last game, but it still was a great experience. It was interesting. It talked about the ideas of collectivism and that kind of cult-like way of thinking. And ironically enough, that's what this game sort of continues, just yeah with a different lick of paint.
00:09:57
Speaker
ah as it were. I think you've cracked the nail on the head there with Rapture and Bioshock. feel like Bioshock 1 was lightning in a bottle. There'd never been anything like it before and it hasn't nothing since. And the reason being is the fact of Rapture just feels alive. The city is a character in itself. It feels alive. So when you go there, you can feel the life force is slowly seeping away from the city. It's slowly dying. There's cracks, there's leaks, there's people running around. You can see that this ecosystem is slowly dying. And it's that mystery of when you get there, it looked perfect. It looks gorgeous. This place looks like utility. utopia why did it fall and as you go through the story obviously would you kindly you get and introduced to characters and there's a lot of things we like oh i can see the rot that's setting in and i can understand as to why it fell and then when get to bar shock 2 it's set years and years later so the rot is even more set in so this place is going down if there's more flood there's more coral there's more sea life trying to get in because water always finds a way to get in And it's one of them sort of things where you see the art, even in the decay, you see the beauty that was once there. And even in death, there's beauty in death. You're seeing the beauty in this city that was once gorgeous, slowly decay, but it's still got style. It's still classy. It's still beautiful. It's hard to really quantify. And I feel like when you take that from Barshock 1 and Barshock 2, and then you go to Columbia and it's all glitz and glamour and a bit too perfect and a bit too squeaky clean. It's like Columbia is wonderful place. It just doesn't feel as ah alive as Rapture. Rapture just feels like it's haunted. It feels decrepit, but at the same stage, it's gorgeous. You fear it, but you're in love. Whereas Columbia, you look around and you're like... This is nice, but something's not right.
00:11:35
Speaker
And again, that links into the story with all sort of the capitalism and all the other stuff that we'll get into the politics a bit later. But you do look around, you're like, I don't like it. I feel uncomfortable. And I like it pays for the favour in the story, but doesn't pay for the favour in new players. When you come off Barzak 1 and Barzak 2, and
Challenges in Game Sequels
00:11:50
Speaker
then you come to a place like Colombia, like, I don't like it here. And then that seeps into effing else. So I feel like that is probably why it didn't do very well. As well as other things as well. It's just the fact of lightning in the bottle for the first game.
00:12:00
Speaker
They really was able to do something brilliant. And once you know the twist of Would You Kindly, there is no way that they could have done that again with the second game. because you would have been looking for it. You wasn't looking for it in the first game. You'd be looking for it in game two. And it's the same with game three. Like anything that this studio would have done after that one, you'd be looking for that twist constantly.
00:12:18
Speaker
So there was no way they could get the same twist and get the same reaction because audience would know what to look for, knew that something might be coming. It's like watching them Shyamalan movie. You know there's going to be a twist. You just don't know when. And I feel like with Infinite, they just tried to do something different.
00:12:32
Speaker
And I really respect it for that. it was like, look, we want to do something new. Still kept the idea of, fundamentals and ideas and that sort thing that having one person that tells everybody to do this do that and having one ideology is not always a good thing and you can falter again like i said that's the idea of rapture of bioshock is cities and ideas and concepts and peoples that have come together remove themselves from society to follow one doctrine and you get to see how that one doctrine one ideology pans out and why it doesn't work and why these ideas don't work on their own and utopias and cities and all that kind of form
00:13:06
Speaker
So yeah, I think they did a wonderful job. It's just coming off the first two, it's really hard to capture that lightning in the bottle second time. And even though Bar Shock 2 is a brilliant game and I absolutely love it, its it's not terrible at all. I feel like even that game struggled because people loved the first one so much. So it's one of those it's like you make something so brilliant, you can't compete with yourself. And people will always constantly be saying, oh, it's not as good as that one. And I'm like, yeah, I know, but we're trying something different.
00:13:30
Speaker
So I feel like it's not their fault. It's just how do you compete with something that's so brilliant and perfect and well done? because that leads me perfectly onto the development of this game. Just when you were saying there about how do you follow up a game like Bioshock, and I find the irony absolutely incredible when Ken Levine said, yeah, we've really told, at least from a creative point of view, all we want to tell from Rapture. The only other alternative would be going to the very beginning before the fall of Rapture. But again, we've already already got the book
00:14:03
Speaker
for that brilliant book yeah i've been told it's a fantastic read i should really get onto that and yeah apparently think he was more focused on the development of a game in the x-com franchise and then while he was doing that 2k asked the other studio 2k madden if they could work in bioshock too so he kind of stepped away from bioshock for a while and then i think the bioshock bug got him And he was like, hold on a second, I've got another story in me. So while they were developing Bioshock 2, Ken and his team were given quite a lenient framework to work off of. You know, it was like they said, okay, Ken, you take your team, go away... make the game of your dreams kind of thing.
00:14:49
Speaker
But as soon as time started marching on, because this game developed, of course, by Irrational Games, formerly 2K Boston, this started in 2008, which is absolutely incredible to think, as you look at it and think, how did they think about this so far back? But the game, for anyone who doesn't know what mean, it didn't come out until 2013. But I think the concept work was around February 2008.
00:15:14
Speaker
two thousand And it has honestly gone back and forward with the inspiration for it. Because the biggest inspiration, and this is something you and I were talking about before we came on, was the 1893's World's Columbian Exposition, which was of course this big grand event to show off the idea of American exceptionalism. Trust me, we will come on to that, we will definitely come on to that, but that was a major influence for the aesthetic and things, and i think
00:15:47
Speaker
Before they started, before they got into the, well, what Columbia became, it was all very clean and sterile and everything, and oh, look, it's lovely. Again, we will touch on that. It was more Rapture-esque, I think, to the extent that developers called it Flapture instead. of rapture which i thought was hilarious so they definitely toned back a lot of things and it's really amazing to see where they got inspiration from because there's honestly hundreds this is something was saying to you as well that some of the developers were trying to make a space that was again very bright and vibrant and open into something that players would consider a bit unsettling and frightening and of all inspirations they took it from stanley kubrick's the shining and david lynch's blue velvet which are great things to compare to Yeah, I mean, to be honest, if you're looking for terrifying normality, David Lynch is your man. Watch Twin Peaks, especially watch Blue Velvet.
00:16:53
Speaker
When I say watch Blue Velvet, I am not responsible for what you feel about that film. It is very artistic, you know, so that centres around American suburbia and this kind of seedy underbelly of it all. I Again, this encapsulates what these developers set out to do for this game. And eventually, of course, we got what we got. But I think there was a lot of changes going back and forward with both the developers and the publishers. So much so that there is a very, don't want to say infamous because it's not that bad, but there is a famous trailer from e three Oh, yeah, I remember this trailer. Yeah. Yeah, 2011, where it makes no sense when you compare it to the actual game, because it's the one where one of the protagonists, Elizabeth, is about to get hung by ah the angry denizens of Columbia, and you're like, that makes no sense, because... They adore her. Yeah, it was a big action scene and it's really cool. Don't get me wrong, but there is a lot that has changed from when they started.
00:18:01
Speaker
There was a lot of different powers and things.
Gameplay Mechanics and Innovations
00:18:03
Speaker
From what I read because of, again, I don't want to say crunch because, I mean, they had five years to develop this, but apparently they had about five or six games worth of cups content for this game really a ridiculous amount of cut content so it's just it's so fascinating to see what this game could have been and again we will touch on that later but there's certain elements that i mean personally i feel are quite underbaked but at the same time you can see probably why they cut back in certain things and then they introduced other things one of The other influences which I thought was really interesting as well was the Occupy movement in 2011, which was, of course, going on around the same time as the development of this game, which, of course, led to the Vox Populi movement in the game. Oh, I didn't know that. Really fascinating, I know. Genuinely, there's a lot of influences that just kind of come together in this big mishmash. as it were of ideas but yeah it's just it's honestly such a fascinating insight into this particular world that they're trying to set out to create but before we go on and before we get into the main meat of it i have one particular message so i had to ask my old co-host adam if he had any thoughts about this game i basically asked him is there anything you want to say do you want to set the record straight for what you said last time he said this is a terrible game now for legal good He basically said, for every small frustration they's something that takes my breath away
00:19:43
Speaker
it's a game that stayed with me for all the right reasons to focus on in one detail it was a mistake to introduce a two weapon one however i think that if you come to appreciate the different combat aus available or wasza birth vigors, weapon swapping, and take advantage of the skyhook in the bigger combat arenas, then it can be a fun and engaging experience.
00:20:06
Speaker
On that note, I think that is the perfect place to leap off. Not literally, because it's a long way down, but leap into this episode. So, Luke, are you ready to dive in? Oh, I'm absolutely ready. More than ready. ain't got a parachute, but I'll see what we can do. And we will be right back.
00:20:24
Speaker
after these messages. Welcome to Chatsunami, a variety podcasts that discusses topics from gaming and films to anime in general and general interests. Previously on Chatsunami, we've analysed what makes a good horror game, conducted a retrospective on Pierce Brosnan's runs James Bond, and listened to us take deep dives into both the Sonic and Halo franchises. Also, if you're an anime fan, then don't forget to check us out on our sub-series, Chatsunani, where we dive into the world of anime. So far, we've reviewed things like Death Note, Princess Mononoke, and the hit Beyblade series. If that sounds like your cup of tea, then you can check us out on Spotify, iTunes, and all good podcast apps.
00:21:02
Speaker
As always, stay safe, stay awesome, and most importantly, stay hydrated. Howdy, I'm Luke from the Howdy Beans podcast, a variety podcast where I look into topics each week into the world of pop culture, like book reviews, where I delve deep into the expanded universe of Doctor Who, or a movie review on the 1998 cult classic, The Mummy. Well, if you're very lucky, I might take a peek under the hood of video games, both new and old.
00:21:26
Speaker
So what are you waiting for? check out the Howdy Beans podcast now on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and anywhere else that you may find your podcast. And I'll see you very soon. That was a long way down. Thank God we hit that balloon. Anyway, and we're back. So Bioshock Infinite is the story of one Booker DeWitt, who is a private investigator. He has done some shady things in his life, and he has been promised that if he manages to deliver a particular girl from, quite frankly, a very strange place. I don't think they really explained him before he left, but he is told if he brings this girl, then they will wipe away all his debts. And that is the tagline throughout this game. Bring us the girl,
Columbia's Storytelling and Themes
00:22:12
Speaker
wipe away the debt. So he ends up going to this lighthouse in the middle of where we joked about in the skit before, he gets shot up into the sky, he ends up in this wonderful world of Columbia, well wonderful in the outset, we'll get to that, and he ends up going through more than he bargained for essentially with, and again before I go on I just want to point out that this is your spoiler warning, if you want to pause this episode, go play it, watch a playthrough and come back, you're more than welcome to, but as of now we're taking the spoiler, obviously, Yeah, this game is very mind-bendy, timey-wimey. Yeah, i was going say timey-wimey. Yeah, all over the place. And I feel as if the first half of this game is really strong and it really... really pulled me into this world because as soon as you get to columbia you have this beautiful rendition of is it will the circle be unbroken i think so yeah it's a beautiful song beautiful piece oh absolutely it's so beautiful you know it's that angelic voice as you're raised from below where it's all basically british weather okay it's raining it's stormy as dark as three in the afternoon but You go up and then you rise above it, you rise above the mortal kind of... Like, it's very angelic, isn't it? It's not even just like Rapture where you're kind of blocked.
00:23:40
Speaker
You don't have an ad blocker for Andrew Ryan. You just have to listen to his. It's a man not entitled to the sweat on his brow. You can't skip that. You can't skip it. But then, of course, you get the big sweeping rapture and everything. Whereas in this, it builds up. You can feel the tension. You're like, what the hell is happening? Where am I going? Am i'm going to space? No, no such luck. Maybe in the next Bioshock. But you get launched and then you just see this beautiful vista, this beautiful landscape of Again, it's something that other people have described it as being quite clean and sterile. Angelic, yeah. Exactly. It's like Eden. It's perfection. Ironically enough, it's almost like Rapture. Not, of course, the same as Rapture, but just the name. It's what you imagine Rapture would have looked like in its golden age, in its heyday, when everybody, everything was hustling bustle, everything was going as planned. And then, obviously, as the story goes on, you see this utopia start to fall. And you are right, it does look sterile.
00:24:40
Speaker
When you first land, when you've looked at this beautiful vista, you land inside a church. And the church is gorgeous, by the way. Beautiful architecture. And everywhere's flooded. And you're following around. You can see the murals on the wall with Comstock and the lamb and all this. I don't want to use the word propaganda. It's not the right word. I mean, oh well yeah it's kind of propaganda, but all this visual storytelling, like you don't know anything about Colombia at this point. You just know it's a city in the sky. It's gorgeous. And then you look at all this sort of yeah propaganda around you and you follow it down. And I think it adds not just for the story, but also to that feel of, for me anyway, I started to feel a bit uneasy when you go into this pool and you've got all these bishops and priests around you, beautifully shot. And you're walking through this water and to enter Colombia, you first have to be washed of your sins. You have to be baptised. And it's the idea of, okay, so to enter the gates of heaven, this angelic, pristine world, I first have to be cleansed of my sins of the prior life.
00:25:34
Speaker
And for me, I think that's when it started to set in of like, okay, that's a bit strange. That's not right. And that's what i like about this game. There are subtle hints here and there of, as I said, with Rapture, the rot. you start to see it seeping here and there and after you get baptized and you go for the city and you do feel like a little boy you know you feel like a little child of like oh wow oh this is gorgeous you know because i did when i first walked around rapture i was in well lack of a better term pardon the pun in raptured looking around but oh this is gorgeous this beautiful this is wonderful and you do you're looking you can see the barges with the people singing on it and you see the little boys running around in their little sort of kit kat what's it called now the line sort of jackets that have gone printed jackets and little straw hats and lollipops and the Again, the archetypal American look of what a little boy and what a gentleman and what a lady would look like at at the time. And you get lost in it all. You're like, oh wow. It's not until you look around you realise, oh, everybody's white. Everybody's rich.
00:26:24
Speaker
Everybody, hold on. Just to jump off at that point, you completely hit the nail on the head there. Yeah, when you go in, it's almost like you maybe not have been chosen, but something has led you to this moment to be in Colombia. And obviously the skin colour of Do It probably helps in this case. Again, we'll touch on that very briefly. But yeah, yeah after you get baptised in a very, quite a violent way, Yeah, it's almost as if you are getting drowned. There are theories online that they are drowning you. There's loads of different theories about this game, but one of them is the fact of you are being drowned. And the idea is you are going to heaven, which is Colombia in a way. So I don't know if that theory is true or not, but it is very violent.
00:27:06
Speaker
You'd think, oh God, he is literally drowning Booker at the beginning of the game. And this is a theme that basically permeates throughout the game of rebirth and trying to find one's identity in this place. And it seems much like Rapture in the first game that a lot of these people are coming here as almost the chosen people, you know, like. yeah Everybody there deserves to be there because, in their words, not mine of course, but you know they deserve to be there because they are believers, they have no faith in the system. You know history's going to repeat itself, or rather, yeah, technically this is before the first game because this is set in 1912 and the first Bioshock set in the 1950s, but even still, you're coming into this world of just... Again, I keep using this word angelic, but it is gorgeous when you first come into it. You're like, look at this scenery, look how perfect everything is. And it's a bit like someone once said that to me when I was editing my podcast episodes, that you should leave in small errors and things because if it sounds so perfect, people are going to be like, OK, there's something wrong about this. because yeah you and I are both old enough, of course, to know that not everything's perfect. so
00:28:21
Speaker
There has to be at least maybe a slight thing that's imperfect, because if something's too perfect, you start to question it. You start yeah to say, well, why is this the case? And but as you were saying, you go through this very stereotypical fear. I think it's a really clever way to introduce the player to this world, because I'm briefly touching on it, the sail barge that comes up with Columbia's gayest quartet. Yeah. It means happy back then, it meant happy.
00:28:49
Speaker
And they sing God Only Knows and See In All Seriousness. That is one of my favourite renditions of that song. Oh, it's gorgeous. I love the song, but I listened to that particular version because other people have covered it and I just, I adore it. I just, I think it's one of the best things to come out of this game. It's all acapella, isn't it? There's no instruments. It's all through voice. It's so well done. But it helps to get lost in that world. And that's the thing about Columbia. You can go in, and again, I'm going to use the word again, you can go in and be enraptured of what you see and take it all in and just accept it for what it is. Or if you go in with your eyes open and not closed to what you actually see, then you notice the little details, the little things that seem off the bit too, things that bit too perfect. I think I agree. It's a perfect introduction to an idea. Because I feel like it would be the same if you went to Rapture. If you went to Rapture during the Golden Age, you would look around and be like, it's a bit too perfect. There should be rules. Even though know that's the point of Rapture, but there should be rules where there isn't. And yeah, I think...
00:29:44
Speaker
Again, it comes back to the fact that I think that that's why this game didn't do as well, because i think people just went in expecting Rapture, took the game for what it was, not for what it was trying to be and trying to do and trying to say. And I think that's why it's one of them games that is looked on more fondly now than it was when it first came out. Once you play this game a few times, once you know the story and you're free now to pay attention to everything else, you can notice that the little quirks, which get bigger, but start off very small of this doesn't seem right, that don't seem right. And the amazing thing about the particular sequence with the fear is that if you're a speedrunner or you're someone who's playing it for the eighth time, you can easily just skip all of that, go to the very end take a swig of the, can't even remember, think it's the possession vigor, which is basically the equivalent to what plasmids are in Rapture, where they just give you superpowers. And instead of drinking or rather consuming Eve, which is basically your underwater man, a giant sea slug.
00:30:43
Speaker
Exactly. You have things called salts, which again, very 1910 sort of thing. But, you know, see if you decide for the first time or however many times you've played it, if you decide just to walk around and explore, you can actually get a feel for the particular culture of this place.
00:31:03
Speaker
You get to grips with the shooting mechanics, with the shooting range. and Even the shooting range is very problematic. Oh yes, very much so, because that depicts the Vox Populi in a very disgusting way, but then you've got, I think it's the bucking bronco vigour as well, where you have to use it to try and get the devilish Vox Populi hiding in the home and everything. You can start to see the cracks forming here, and it's a great piece of storytelling, because much like the audio logs that you get in the first two games, they of course return here with the Voxiphone And it's also interesting because you get the, I think it's the kinetoscope. Oh, yeah, little things you can look through. Yeah, you look through them and you get to see the, well, again, that lovely word we'll be using and throughout the episode, that propaganda of, oh, look, this is Columbia's history and everything. And I remember when this game was coming out, they had realistic trailers for that of, oh the Columbia secedes from the Union. Oh, they are going to move to their own city and things. And that was so cool. I honestly love marketing wise when companies do that. They try and tie it into history. And I just absolutely love that. But that's a whole other thing. Can you tell my degrees in history and religion? Because trust me, it served me really well for this. I think that's what is going to be the best part about this review is because you've got that experience in your degree. You'd be better in articulating the whole cult religion side of it all because it does feel like that and it does get to that point as you get further on into the game, but you can also believe that a world like this and a world like rapture exists in the same world because it just feels this world that they've created you could believe that there was a flying city and that it took itself away because the world around it changed and they didn't like it so they flew away and you can believe that there was a bloke who andrew ryan was like you know what i don't like society i'm gonna go build a city under the waves you know you can just believe it it's so believable and Yeah, that's what I can. I just love that about Barshak the fact that you can believe that somebody would do this on a whim. I've just I don't agree what's going on. I'm going to start my own city. With Blackjack and you know what? Yeah, yeah with a lot of spit and magic. Exactly.
00:33:17
Speaker
Because that's the fascinating thing. Going back to the first game for the second there... You know, when you arrive at Columbia, immediately you're smacked by this religious iconography. You know, you've got the statues everywhere of Zachary Comstock, who is this wartime hero who led the people of America who believed in him. Again, religious indoctrination here. that They believed in him, they believed in God. And literally the first port of call isn't a customs office, isn't any kind of vetting process.
00:33:49
Speaker
It is a church office. It is a place that is, as you said, absolutely flooded. Someone needs to get a plumber in there. But, you know, all joking aside, it's a place where immediately you're getting baptised whether you like it or not. You know, you want to enter Colombia? No, no, no. You get dip under that water and get blessed because there is no way you're entering here. And compare that, ironically enough, getting blessed underwater by rapture where literally the first thing you see is, again, a huge statue, but it's also got a banner underneath it that says, no gods, no kings, only man. And it's a very secular society, because even when you get to rapture at the beginning, it is a really just what you would expect, a kind of welcoming area that, of course, at that time has been littered with protest placards and things like that, and splicers that want to gut you for your innards. But for this, immediately it slaps you in the face with this religious iconography that this is a society that really holds religion as a key tenant of the way they live, and especially with this idolatry of religion. Comstock, because, you know, you get a lot of them with the stereotypical, gee willikers, this place is sure great. Yeah, I love Zachary Comstock. And you're like, what the hell? You know that way?
00:35:10
Speaker
And you'll probably relate to this as well, but you know when you hear an American going on about something that is so American? I know that sounds weird to say, but you know, it's like something that they'll say that sounds completely normal to them, but as a British person, we both kind of look as if, huh? No. What's What?
00:35:29
Speaker
You're going to look around and like, no, I don't think. Yeah, okay. Crazy American. Yeah, I'm kind of just like, yeah, you do you. Gods are great, aren't they? Yeah, okay. You do you, pal. Yeah, I'm going go over here. I'm going to keep away from you, you weirdo. God only knows what I'd be, etc. I would join the band. I'm not going to lie. But anyway. I know we've talked about it for a long time, but genuinely, the whole opening is just such a visual feast for the eyes, and it is just such a great piece of storytelling. It's something, as you were saying before, it's very environmental with the way it tells its story. It is something that the Bioshock games have always done really well. That's what I miss about this studio, is the fact of they were so good at telling a story without using any dialogue, of just visually having little details. Like again, in Bioshock 1, when you get down to the station, there's banners everywhere. There's luggage everywhere. there's If you read the boards, they all say, you know, let us leave. Why can't we leave?
00:36:26
Speaker
Blah, blah, blah. And you can see the little bits of story details of like people tried to leave here. People were fleeing. Why are there nobodies? Why is there loads of luggage? What happened here? And again, it's the same with Columbia. You get there, like, all this is really angelic, lovely, but I'm in a church. Why am in a church? You see all the signage and you see all the murals. And even before then, i don't know you noticed it, when you're in the lighthouse and as you're spiraling up the stairs, the lighthouse keeper, which isn't there anymore, He's got Bibles everywhere. He's got a wash basin for his face. As you're going up the stairs, there are, I think it's knitted, but like it's knitted passages out of the Bible. And it's little bits of details like that of like, yeah, you wouldn't have to sit and pay attention to it. You could easily go up the spiral staircase, sit in the chair, go to Columbia, start the game.
00:37:05
Speaker
But if you take it slow, and I always recommend people to, when you play any bar shot game, take it slow and you take in every bit of detail around you. You can see the story being told from you from the get-go. From the very beginning, the story's being told. You've just got to open your eyes to it. And feel like that is more important here with Columbia than it is in Rapture because it's not exactly completely evident in Columbia. It takes time. And if you go in with your eyes open, you'll see it. Or if you don't and your eyes shut, you will see it eventually. But it'll be more of a shock. But oh God, where'd that come from? So yeah, I feel like it just depends on how fast you're going through the game. If you're taking your time to really take in the details. And I feel like going off for what you're saying about the production of this game, I feel like this is why it's... look We know they're doing a Barshock 4. They've announced it. But I feel like this is why it's taking so long to make Barshock 4.
00:37:51
Speaker
Whatever it is, however they want to set it. I feel like making a game like Barshock is so difficult, not just because what has come before, but also the fact of... How do we do that but different? Do we go to space? Do we go underground? We've already been under the water and in the sky. Where else can we go? And yeah, I just feel like that game, whatever it will be, will have the same issue that this game had in terms of story, in terms of characters, is the fact of how do you compete with that lightning in the bottle? How do you do it? So whatever Bioshock 4 is, I'm looking forward to it. And I feel like people are going to look back on this game when that game comes out and goes, oh, this was better than I remember it being.
00:38:23
Speaker
But yeah, the way this game tells its story and the other games do, it's masterclass. Again, with this one, you've got the timey-wimey stuff, which I feel like they should have expanded on the timey-wimey stuff a bit more. But yeah, straight away, just from the opening scenes, before you get anywhere near the whole idea of the story, just that opening bit of walking through Columbia, listening to the guys sing and going through the arcades and look playing the games. Wonderful.
00:38:45
Speaker
Absolutely brilliant. And then when it to gets going, then it lets go of your hand. of Like, look, we've told you this story. Now it's up to you to either pay attention or to not. But hold on, because we're not letting go until this story ends. Honestly, 100%. It is just something that is a masterclass of being able to display that world building. Because, as we were saying, even before you get into you pick up so much from it.
00:39:12
Speaker
And it does make you feel uneasy and on edge. And after you take that first swig of, oh, here's possession juice. And you're like, why am I drinking possession juice? But again, you know, you kind of have to suspend your disbelief. It's a bit like when in the first game you take your first dose of Adam and...
00:39:28
Speaker
they're like, oh, it's okay. Your DNA is just being rewritten. This is normal. It happens every day. love how even in this game on and in the other Bioshock, really, it's as if they're off in your Coca-Cola or something. It's just like, here go. Yeah, weird, you're still being drugged up. It's like, what?
00:39:45
Speaker
It's as normal as breathing. We all do it. See the kids? He's having fun. Little Jimmy. Little Jimmy's in the corner like, I can't do it. I can't eat another banana from the bin. Now eat your bin, banana.
00:39:57
Speaker
but If it's good enough for Mr. Do-It, it's good enough for you. It's very much like say what we say when we say it. Okay, I'll say it. I'll say it again. But yeah, then when you get through the doors, then this is when the mask... I would say the mask falls, but it doesn't fall. It basically gets ripped off and then stamped onto to a thousand pieces where you get this raffle and you're told by the two people who led you here, the Lutece twins... man and a woman that surprisingly look the same but we'll touch on that and they tell you not to pick this particular ball 77 but of course because of timey-wimey shenanigans you end up picking it and you end up getting spotted by the
Social Commentary in Bioshock Infinite
00:40:40
Speaker
police because you have a very distinctive tattoo that everybody has been warned oh it's
00:40:46
Speaker
not the antichrist but the false shepherds is what they call them but even before that and this is where the game that oh honestly it takes a lot for a game to shock me and I think back then my jaw basically hit the ground so much so that I had to get paracetamol after it because I was like Jesus Christ they went there where you pick this baseball when it's the winning baseball and they're like oh what do you win what are we gonna throw at and they bring out a mixed race couple complete with Very racist imagery behind them. It absolutely disgusting. is absolutely horrifying when you see it for the first time. And I genuinely, was like, what the hell have I stumbled into here?
00:41:27
Speaker
And of course, you can decide whether to throw the ball at the couple and keep your identity hidden, or you can throw it at the announcer. But it doesn't really matter. kind of matters later on, because depending on who you decide to throw it at, you get a different piece of character. hit, but narrative-wise it doesn't really make it much of a difference. But yeah, you get caught and then that brings you into your first major action set piece where you end up getting the sky hook, which is basically the game's like excuse for you to latch on to all of these rails that are interlinked across the city. Don't know how to feel about it to be honest it's kind of a mixed bag for me because it almost feels too fantastical I like the Skyhook so for me it makes sense because if you think of Bioshock 1 and 2 as sort of linear close quarters you feel trapped you feel small because you're surrounded by water you feel pressure you do feel claustrophobic is the best word to look for Whereas in Colombia, you're in the open air, you're in the sky. So everything is is open to the elements.
00:42:28
Speaker
So it makes sense where you're going to have a big open space that you're going to make use of it, which is the skyhooks, which I feel like, I guess we're going to come on to it. But the the combat, in my opinion, it's not brilliant. And I do agree with your friend where he says you shouldn't have been limited to two guns. You should have had a variety.
00:42:44
Speaker
Even if it didn't make sense, it didn't have to. It's a video game. Just give me loads of guns and let me switch of them, right? limited to two. it kind of adds more creativity but at the same stage it limited as well the fact of what I want to jump around the skybox I don't want to have to constantly jump down grab the gun jump back up I want to seamlessly have to switch sniper rifle shotgun pistol carbine salt rifle grenade launcher you know I want to be able to do this on the fly having to constantly think of like okay I don't know what's ahead of me but I have to think somehow in the future to plan. So happy to pick two weapons that might be useful or might be the worst guns to pick for that level. So it is a bit limiting, but i do like the Skyhooks.
00:43:21
Speaker
I love how you can go around, you can jump off people, you can attack them, you can do melee combat, and there's even do like little animations. Really gruesome where you just chop their heads off and chainsaw them, which is brilliant. I feel like that idea, brilliant, it expands, it makes sense for the world, for the universe, because that's how they would get around. Because you're not going to have just trains, you have to have some way for those trains to travel, so Skyhawks makes sense. But yeah, I just feel like it limits the combat a little bit when you have to stop having fun, choose what weapon to take with you, or what weapon you don't mind losing that you might not get again for a while.
00:43:54
Speaker
Because i have to say, and it's a criticism that think's been brought up by hundreds of people, but with the first game, although you have access to all the weapons at the same time, and obviously you have to try and pick and choose what you buy ammo for, it felt quite clunky because had to swap out your weapons for your plasmids in the second game um i think they got it perfect where it's like you could have all your weapons in one hand and on your other hand you could use your plasmids at the same time and that really shook up the gameplay because you still had although it was quite condensed it was still fairly open you know open enough that you could run around away from the big sisters and things like that but here i think gameplay wise I'm not overly sold on it I think the gameplay okay you know I don't think it's the worst gameplay I've ever played in my life that would be disingenuous to say it's the worst thing ever but I totally agree with you and of course my friend Adam where having a two weapon and limit is just so annoying and it's not something that I thought about when I first played the game because this was my first Bioshock I was like I
00:45:01
Speaker
oh, this is fun. I've got two weapons, just like Call of Duty, my other favourite game of the time. You know, you're playing these games, not thinking about it, but after basically getting a sip of that sweet nectar from BioShock 1, you're like, hey, wait a minute, he's got hundreds of guns. I've only got the two. So yeah, I can see why people didn't like that, and I'm up there as well, because it is such a pain in the backside. I think another thing that really disappoints me with the guns as well is like in Barshock 1 and 2, you can upgrade the guns.
00:45:31
Speaker
And when you upgrade them, it's not just an upgrade. It's a visual upgrade as well. So the gun looks different. So the more you upgrade it, it looks cool. It looks steampunky. It looks, okay, this gun looks like it would fit in this world of Barshock and Rapture. And I feel like they missed a beat by not doing that with this game. You can buy the upgrades to reload faster, better damage like with a shotgun. Like the cone is smaller so you can do more spread. And I would have loved it if they did a bit more steampunky or did it cogs and wheels and clockwork sort maybe stuff on the weapon. So when did an upgrade, the weapon changed
00:46:02
Speaker
how it looked and you like that could have added to it like yeah I might only have two guns but the gun is look different it's more powerful than when I first got it whereas the guns feel the same all the way through even when you upgrade them there's no difference the only thing that really changes is when you upgrade your vigors they do little bit extra they do something different so feel like the vigors look different and they change but the weapons don't even when you upgrade them and I feel like that's what makes the shooting even though I enjoy the shooting it makes the shooting a bit less fun and a bit more mundane a bit more like as you say Call of Duty like a oh I got a gun shoot these guys or I shut them. It doesn't add for that experimentation, for that fun, unless you take advantage of the vigors and the upgrades and skyhook.
00:46:39
Speaker
Otherwise, if you just run around, it can be a bit boring, I'll be honest. Because that's one of the things that annoyed to me later on in the game, where there's certain enemies that can electrocute the skyhooks.
00:46:51
Speaker
Oh, yeah. And they're obviously taking that away from you to make it harder to be like, oh, you have to fight in the ground. Well, I don't want to fight in the ground. Why would I want to fight in the ground? That's Call of Duty. That's a Rapture style. I'm not Rapture, I'm from Columbia. Come on, let me go on these skyhooks, perform these utterly ridiculous, you know, feats where I can jump and basically Assassin's Creed something. in the air that is so cool but when you take away that element it's like oh okay well that you can melee enemies off columbia and watch them fall yeah it's sick to say but it's fun to do big man to a tiny little dot instantly that's fun one question i want to ask you though with the guns did you find yourself using only two specific guns all the way through the game i know i did When I found that the guns don't feel that different, I ended up running around with the machine gun and the shotgun. And I only ever used anything else when I needed to unlock an achievement, like with the Snob Prime 4 or anything that. Otherwise, I would just use the two guns for the whole run. I didn't feel any need to change. Did you have that? Yeah, to be honest, I think. i stuck mainly between the machine gun and maybe the carbine don't blame you i don't know i just i like carbines in games i honestly i always feel as if it's got that satisfying look and everything yeah i don't want to sound like a psycho or even worse than american when i say that but when you're playing the game it's the weapon of choice because you're like right okay it means that it's probably going to do more damage than the average pistol in the game because i mean i did like the shotgun in the game as well because there was that kind of punch but the one thing i found funny touching on what you were saying about the variation of weapons is later when you meet the vox populi and you're like right okay they must have some ramshackle type weapons that they've clobbered together it's like no they're exactly the same but they just look a bit different No, they're just red. It's like, oh, you've got a college of two reds. They unlock the battle pass. I've got a red skin. It's like, okay, granted, there are one or two variants of the weapons, but I think overall all it's just the red and you're like, oh, okay, what was the point in having these variants? because I know they were planning and doing the multiplayer mode because I think at that time multiplayer was the end thing and when Bioshock 2 came out they had the multiplayer it was a lot of fun I managed to experience it not a lot but I played it a bit back in the day it was a lot of fun I wish they brought it back for the remake because it was so much fun to play with friends and yeah it's just honestly i'm kind of glad they didn't make multiplayer for this game at the same time it's quite bad that they probably had a lot of manpower and a lot of effort thinking okay how do we implement multiplayer and then they're like you know what we're not going to do it i don't think it would have worked i feel like it would have been the sort of core of duty advanced warfare of the barshak series people like oh he's jumping around i can't hit him he's jumped off the skyline and hit me it's unfair not balanced which it isn't because it's not meant to be it's a single player game Oh, but can you imagine the MLG? Oh, God, yeah, the nose go jumping off, spinning, melee. Skrillex bang around just in the background. With an old-fashioned American sort of twang to it, so it's like very country style. Mm-hmm.
00:49:59
Speaker
Honestly, we were robbed. That's what saying. I take back everything I said. That would have been brilliant. We were robbed. Two out of ten game. Come on, guys. But yeah, when you get by that, it's quite... And this is going to sound so weird to say because the most memorable bits for this game seem to be the story elements.
00:50:16
Speaker
All of the action set pieces and the action scenes bar maybe one or two are very similar. They kind of blend into one. As you said, you use a combination of the vigors and the weapons that you mainly alternate between. The only memorable one, i think, is the crow guy. Oh, yeah.
00:50:34
Speaker
I'm not 100% on the crow guy. Basically, it's a figure that allows you to shoot crows from your hands. Now, I know you might be thinking, oh well, Bioshock had the bees that you shot from the hands. And don't get me wrong. Yeah, that is weird. But at least bees, they collect honey. kind of makes sense in a way, yeah in a rapture way. i thought Oh, yeah. A hive in your hand. Yeah, it makes sense. But a murder of crows in your hand. but What use is that? I genuinely don't know. This is like a demented version of, you know, the, well, either the bird lady from Mary Poppins or bird lady da from Home Alone 2. Pick your bird lady, but these are the only two people who are going to be lining up for this to drink. the rest ah of them.
00:51:17
Speaker
I don't know, guys. I don't know. You've got a new figure. Yeah, I got a new one. I've got possession. i've got shock jockey. You know, I've got the devil's kiss. What'd you get, Crows? Okay. Weird, dead guy. He's like, yeah, they collect my mail. Oh my God, that would actually be handy. I take back everything I say to You wouldn't want to mess with him. The guy walks in surrounded by crows. Like, ah hello, right bloke, you're right? Yeah. And just... I mean, and this is coming from someone who 100% does pay for his TV license, but I suppose if he didn't pay for it, it would probably be quite handy if someone came up saying, have you paid for your TV license? You put your hand in your pocket like, oh yeah, I've got it here somewhere. Crows. Crow murder.
00:51:56
Speaker
but Pockets end. Just absolutely yeah chase him off. I don't think he thought that one through. Again, the bees are weird in Rapture, but at least bees pollinate. Save your bees, for God's sake. God, I'm channeling my bees. Save the bees, God damn it. Screw the crows. We need bees.
00:52:13
Speaker
Yeah, what do the crows... I mean, I've got nothing against crows. Any crow enthusiasts out there, please let me know why. Don't get me wrong. It's a fun idea and it's a fun visual when you first do the murder of crows and you kill people with it. It is funny. But I always found myself, and it's the same when I played Barshak 1, I just use Shark Jockey. Or I think they call it Swing House in this one. But I ended up just using that because it's better when you've got loads of enemies and you upgrade it to hit multiple targets at once.
00:52:36
Speaker
You don't get swarmed as much. You shoot it. They'll get electrocuted. Shoot, to shoot, shoot. It's more fun. I do like the Devil's Kisser where you can hit them with fire and then they just melt. That's great. That makes sense. Again, that's like a vigor that you'd need. But what would you use the crow for? That's the question. Everything else makes sense.
00:52:52
Speaker
But what would you use that for? What Madman was like, I need crows. Yeah, Pandalorians, I'm expecting the 500 word essay on my desk on Monday. Why do we need to shoot crows out of our hands in Columbia?
00:53:03
Speaker
Because, yeah, I'm s stumped on that one. That's the thing though, I have to say, at least, as much as I was kind of ragging on that there, as you said, it's just such an iconic visual. Even though it's weird that there's more than one bird person carrying a coffin on the back, shooting crows out the hand. Bit weird, but you know, everyone has a hobby. wonder what they were doing before, you know, we came and just ruined everything. you think just walking around going, you know, not even talking English, like just talking crow language? Yeah, cock off. People gave him a wide berth. Happy giving them his own island. It's like, okay, you stay in that floating island. We'll take away the sky hooks. You just, i mean, you wouldn't need them. You're just flying these It just reminds me that episode of Rick and Morty when Rick's got the two crows. Crow science or whatever he calls it. Crow tech. love that. I mean, I was going to say, oh, they wouldn't listen to you, but I mean, they obey you enough to target someone. So maybe...
00:53:53
Speaker
I mean, oh god, I mean, if only they weaponised that for Songbird, but again, the catchphrase of the episode, we'll get to that bit. But yeah, of course, it kind of blends into one, to
Character and Enemy Design
00:54:04
Speaker
be honest. I mean, the combat's fun enough, but once you fire who crows out your hand for the first time, you fired him a thousand times, and then eventually you get to the quote-unquote girl who you're supposed to take back to New York, of course, being quite possibly one of the best characters in gaming. if not one of the best female characters in gaming. That, of course, being Elizabeth, who, my God, honestly, I genuinely think she's incredible as a character and especially as an AI, because this is something I brought up when Adam and I first reviewed this game all the way back four years ago. But one of the things that we were impressed with was the fact that the AI...
00:54:45
Speaker
is so good, you know, because usually when you think ah of AI companions, you think of ones that get stuck in the door or they unnaturally teleport beside you that kind of thing. But Elizabeth seems to be not only really helpful, but also an endearing character that you want around. It's not like Ashley from Resident Evil 4, the original, of course, not the remake, but that constant screaming of, oh no, I'm getting kidnapped. Leon!
00:55:13
Speaker
yeah because i think the first time that happened she kicked somebody in the nuts and it's like you know what you go girl go for it i think that was a worry with this game for a lot of people was the fact of oh here we go this whole game it turns into just another escort mission for like a whole eight hours but when you realize that The enemies, they're not there for Elizabeth. They're there to save her, but they want to take you out. So she doesn't get in the way. She actually helps you. She throws guns at you. She throws money at you. She throws salts at you. She's like, you don't need to waste time looting bodies. It's a fact of, are you low in ammo?
00:55:43
Speaker
Booker, take this. Next you know, really quickly, Booker turns, grabs a gun, and you're back into it. It's so seamless. And that's what I feel like a companion should be like in a game. Me personally, I haven't experienced it since in any other game. I'm surprised.
00:55:56
Speaker
that you don't get more companions like this in games where they actually throw things at you or they'd be like oh hey here it is you know and it makes sense in the story she's hiding she's also going around and giving you aid or she's bringing in tears so well done from the beginning to end i just wish they did more with her and her abilities i feel like we really missed out on her doing more timey-wimey going to different dimensions doing different time warps or stuff like stargate i don't know wherever you want to talk there's so much stuff they could have done and I feel like when I was doing my research for this game when I covered it I think it was last year or before there were plans to do more with her timey-wimey powers it's just because of technical constraints on the consoles at the time and also how much time they'd already spent on the game on the game already about five years they couldn't spend any longer on it which is a shame to think if this game had come out maybe I think it was a two years later when the Xbox One come out to think
00:56:44
Speaker
what they could have done with that newer hardware because they wanted to do weather effects they wanted to have Elizabeth change the weather and blah blah it's just a shame that they couldn't do that but yeah I love her as she is but I would have loved if we could have done more with her I feel like you can do so much more with her and abilities because I have to say although she is really handy especially with the combat sections of this game there is a lot of cosplayers and things that I've seen online that really meme the whole booker catch and I don't know if you saw that video of the cosplayer who she was just throwing random things at the camera. Yeah, and she's like, book her catch! And there's like eggs and chairs and things.
00:57:19
Speaker
It's like, what the hell? But at the same time, we joke about it from a place of love. We don't do it from a, oh God, this person's so annoying because Elizabeth is just such a well-rounded character. And I feel as if from a characterization perspective, one of the things that they changed about her character, especially from the beginning, was that they made her almost like a Disney prince. princess in a way know that whole rapunzel yeah locked in the tower oh will i ever see paris etc and then this guy comes crashing through her skylight she's like okay let's go she's very wide-eyed and she's like oh what adventure we gonna have and then of course there's a turning point where she turns into the elizabeth that we know especially from the cover and everything There's like a definite line between when she's naive and young to just suddenly aged 20 years immediately. Not physically, but mentally because of what's just happened and run over. But I do love how naive she is initially because there's that particular scene where, remember when you escape from songbirds? for the first time, and Songbird is like the big daddy of this game, only to a bigger extent there's only one Songbird, and again, that's something that I think they wanted more of, they wanted it to stop you, you had to decide whether you were going to stay and fight or run away from it, but only appears in... scripted cutscenes, which is ironic because that's something that Ken Levine was extremely against in the first Bioshock game, that he didn't want as many cutscenes, and granted they end up as cutscenes anyway, but he didn't want cutscenes, he wanted the player to be able to play through these particular moments, whereas in this there's a lot of cutscene moments that you cannot control, like when you escape the airship and Songbird comes after you, and you have to whisk Elizabeth away, and you end up on this beach. And again, you get exposed to another particular song that ticks off something isn't quite right about Columbia, other than the rampant racism and sheer nationalism of American values. And that, of course, is Cyndi Lauper's Girls Just Wanna Have Fun, but a 1910s old-timey version. And you find out later the reason, and I think this is amazing, is because there are tears that keep forming. in Colombia, which are basically these mini portals to other worlds, dimensions, that kind of thing. And you have the brother of the richest man in Colombia, so I've been told, Albert Fink, who is basically stealing these songs and then adapting it to his own time, essentially. And I think that is such a clever idea. I just absolutely love that idea of someone stealing art and then he's just basically a charlatan, as it were, and I think you find him dead besides the tear that's blasting girls just want have fun. Bitter irony. But yeah, you hear that a lot because you get girls just want to have fun, you have God Only Knows. There's another one later on. In fact, there's two of them.
01:00:29
Speaker
One of them's a Vox Populi member singing Fortunate Son, which of course, amazing song, but it's a song about the Vietnam War. So yeah, deaf in that were not either appropriate. It's that little bit of story detail of like, if you pay attention and you know your music history, you know, this song shouldn't exist in this time period.
01:00:47
Speaker
They shouldn't know this song or they shouldn't know this certain thing. So it's things that they say, they have certain ways of speaking. So it's the slang. They shouldn't say... this thing then because that wasn't used until this point in history and then it adds into the fact of oh the reason why there's there because there is these tears people are hearing things and again plagiarizing taking stuff and then using it to their own advantage in their time and then i think that's kind of the culture is grew on a lie really which is the combination really of the whole story is this whole culture is a lie and it's all predicated by one person
01:01:18
Speaker
So I totally did not Google what the other song is. It was Tainted Love. Oh, yeah. Which I honestly can't listen to Tainted Love anymore. I don't know if I told you this without thinking of, you know, the second episode of Christopher Eccleston's run? Yeah, I knew where you were going. The same. Yep, where they put on the root box and it's just...
01:01:38
Speaker
but For Eggleston dancing Tainted Love, it's like... He's a little head nod that he does. He doesn't move his arms, he's got his arms crossed, but he's kind of bobbing from side to side, it's so good. But every time I hear that song, that's the exact scene I think of. Fun fact, toxic as well, but that's another story. But of course, going back to Elizabeth, when you find her on the beach and you see, again, a very idyllic, oh, it's a nice seaside town and she's dancing with everybody who fortunately don't know who she is, because I think if they did, the police would be there tootsweet. And you say, oh, we're going to take you away. And then throughout the game, you keep encountering those test ones who keep
01:02:18
Speaker
giving you very cryptic messages of, oh, he didn't do that the last time, or oh, he did the exact same thing, and you're like, what is your deal? But you do find out later. But then, of course, you get into an altercation with Elizabeth when you realise that she knows her coordinates, and she's like, yeah, no, you're not taking me to Paris, you're taking me to New York, and you get wrenched in the face.
01:02:41
Speaker
Now I know how the splicers feel. She escapes, and then that's when you get introduced to the Vox Populi, a really interesting dynamic where you realize there's this underclass within Columbia and that of course leads to Albert's horrible, horrible brother Jeremiah, think, who is this massive industrialist. He's got a gold statue of himself, which is kind of ironic because one that and again, no surprise, there's hypocrisy here, but the whole idea of Christian values and everything is that if you're going to praise someone, it's going to be God. That's literally the first commandment. Well, the first two, technically. First, there's only one God. The second one do not pray to false idols.
01:03:26
Speaker
The irony being that as soon as you get into Columbia and step out that church, there is a huge statue of Zachary Comstock, their founder. So immediately, that's mark number one, if you needed any marks against this city. But then, of course, when you go to Jeremiah Fink, and again, I don't know if this was intentional, but it's a big gold statue. And it almost reminds me of where Moses went up, he got his Ten Commandments, he came back down, saw that his followers were so bored of going through the desert, they started praising other gods, including a golden calf.
01:04:00
Speaker
And that's why he was so mad that he broke the original commandments and then he went back up again to redo them. But again, that imagery of it being gold, that he kind of idealises himself above everybody else, you know, because this statue is massive. It's like you're going down on the lift and you see this huge... Huge, huge statue with the clock in hand, and there's obvious symbolism in there that he's watching you work, and your time is his, essentially, and you've got people basically bidding for certain jobs, you've got people living in scrawler. There is, unfortunately, i can't believe I'm saying it like this, but when you go to this underclass area, there is more diversity around, which screams absolute volumes. Because, you know, you realise what kind of society this is. It is a unfair society, it unjust, but obviously they don't care. They just want to keep this happy illusion going, and especially when you meet the weaponsmith and everything, and he is...
01:05:00
Speaker
I think, Chinese. think so, yeah. Yeah, he's Chinese and, of course, another minority in America that wasn't looked so well upon at that time because earlier on in the game, even before you get to this point, you have to fight against a former friend called Slate, I think. and you fight in this place called the Hall of Heroes. And the Hall of Heroes is this place that they basically say, oh, Zachary Comstock, he was a war hero, he did all of this and that, and obviously he did. So, again, our favourite word. I feel like we're on Sesame Street, P is for propaganda. And he was at the Battle of Wounded Knee, which was ah absolute massacre and horrible to read up on. and Also the Boxer Rebellion in China, and all of the stereotypical caricatures are everywhere. Again, my jaw hit the ground.
01:05:52
Speaker
had to bandage him because I was like, oh my God, it's so sore. Honestly, it was just horrific going through this. And then you get your action set pieces when you finally fight him. And you have to decide once you defeat your old friend whether or not you want to kill him leave him alive. When you see what happens to him, think it's more merciful to put him out. misery because you basically see him catatonic and it's just absolutely horrible but going back to jeremiah think he basically asked for your help to not crush i suppose but just help stop the vox populi and you have to look for weapons and things and you really get to see an understanding of how different this society is but i wonder if you feel the same way i feel as if personally, when you find out that can properly, this is for the first time because you see her summon certain things into the world, like extra ammo skyhooks sky ho certain things like that. She can rip small tears. But this is when you learn that she can properly go into these worlds. Because, I mean, technically she doesn't. She nearly gets hit by a oncoming ambulance in Paris, right beside a theatre that's playing Return of the Jedi, fun fact. But Yeah, you find out that she can basically take you to another dimension. Is this the point in the game that you feel as if it lost you? The bit where it starts to go downhill?
01:07:17
Speaker
Well, no, because at this point, as we said with the combat, I was lost with the world and I was interested. And it goes to what you were saying earlier about, you know, when you go for the Hall of Heroes and you see the iconography and you can see the way they talk about certain things and they idolise the Americanism, patronism and that sort thing. And you do kind of look around and you think, hold on, how is it that this place is like this? Why is it like this? And when you start digging and you look at the kaleidoscopes and you listen to what's going on around you and you realize that Colombia was a world circus, it was a pinnacle of what we can do with American technology. And then because they didn't like the way that things happened after the Civil War and because people went, oh, slavery is bad, you can't do this, you can't do that, which again,
01:07:58
Speaker
again really really good we shouldn't do a lot of these things the people of Colombia went nah I don't agree with that and then they flew away and they started their own society on all these horrible ideas and the way they treat people and that sort thing then you start to realise oh that's why it is the way it is because they're an offshoot of some of the worst types of people that we know to exist in the human race you know So when you see all that, and as you say, the whole idea of the beginning the game, you've got Comstaff, who is like a false idol. Then you've got Fink in gold and people are starting to worship him. And he's starting to take the sort of the luxury and love of that, of being an idol, of being, I am the guy that gives you what you need to get your bread, to get your food, to give you a job, to give you purpose. It's one of those where the game invites you to this idea of ideologies of like, there's one ideology and we all follow this.
01:08:43
Speaker
And as the game goes on, you realize it's all lies. Again, it's all propaganda. It's a fact of we lead you in with this tale, but there are all those loads of people like Jebediah Fink and all that who are just complete liars and are false idols and everything around you, it's crumbling apart. So when you realize all that, I was fascinated in the idea of Oh, Elizabeth can do tears. This means we can go to alternate realities, alternate versions of Columbia and to see what this place could be like if it wasn't so racist, horrible, bigoted, coded. like What could it have been?
01:09:16
Speaker
Sadly, we don't go there really. But for me, the beginning was very solid. You get to the middle where she can start doing the big tears and you can travel through these dimensions. As I said, I wish there was more to that. I wish we went through more dimensions where we went through one dimension where it's really nice.
01:09:30
Speaker
Went through one dimension where it was really cruel. Or you could have went through a dimension where Colombia is, I don't know, falling out of the sky. The US military has finally managed to track it down as it's shooting out sky. You've got to run through the city and then quickly jump out of a building, jump into a tear, and then you're back to normal. keep the pace and keep the interest going. So I feel like because of limitations of technology and obviously scope and wanting to keep the story contained, the word that you use, which I think sums up perfectly, it sags. You go up on the high, it's like going on a slide, you're going down, it's incredible. And just before you go over the hill to get to the end, you've got this bow in the middle and then you kind of stop and the momentum stops and then you have to drag yourself up the slide to then go over the last hurdle to get to the incredible end So yeah, I just feel like even though it's brilliant and it's amazing that she's able to open these tears and I love the visual where she almost gets hit by the car, she has to move herself out the way and she can help you in combat using these small tears.
01:10:23
Speaker
I just feel because they they couldn't do more with the idea behind it, it's like you've given me gold. But you don't let me have it. It's like teasing me with something that I can't have. It's a bit unfair. It feels underutilized, but I understand why they couldn't do it because of limitations. It's just, yeah, it starts to sag. It starts to get a bit samey. It's like, oh, that was really interesting. But then nothing really happens with it. It kind of peaks and ends and, it's bit of a bummer. Something that you mentioned there the first time you played it, you know, it's not something I really thought about when I first played it and I got to that bit and I was like, oh, that's really cool. You can go to different dimensions and things. But I know, ironically enough, looking back on it, but looking back on this particular moment, I think ruins it for me. Not ruins entirely. I wouldn't write off the game because of it. But what it suggests to me, and it's a problem that I have with a lot of multiverse stories. I mean, Marvel is the biggest one right now that is, oh look, it's a multiverse. And then other properties have done similar things. DC tried their hand at multiverse to little success. But yeah, the thing is, once you go over that threshold... Again, it's not even like you're going to a different time, like Doctor Who, ironically enough. It's not like you're going to a different time or a different area of space. Once you cross that threshold, you are no longer in the same world as you started. So everything you've done up until that point, I wouldn't say doesn't matter, but you're severed from that, essentially. I mean, they never really explore whether ah Elizabeth can go back to that moment. I think she probably could by the end of it, but at that point she can't.
01:12:01
Speaker
So you're like, well, you're not really giving me any motivation here, Gabe. Yeah, you're just adding this random new world that I have to fight for. I've never thought of it like that before. I've never thought of it like that. As you were saying I was sitting there thinking, you're right, there is a universe where Elizabeth and Booker disappeared and that was it. And like Fink never got to realise haven't done any of the guns or anything like that. Did that world carry on? Did Songbird Forever fly around the city looking for Elizabeth? It's one of those, I've actually never thought of that. time I played this game, it's never come to mind. of You are right. There is that world that you've got to know.
01:12:35
Speaker
And now that world's gone. It's severed. You never return to it. It's never explained what happened to that world. It's just a fact of you're in a new world now. Things are different. I don't want it to be different. I don't like the change. Tough. Yeah, because even when you get to the world with the Vox Populi, who they are the resistance faction, verily Miz, but the resistance faction of Columbia, there's a particular dimension where, for whatever reason, Slate and Booker decided to fight with the Vox Populi. and eventually Booker gets killed during a battle or a fight and they prop him up as a martyr and that kind of gives you foreshadowing moment where when he goes through one of the tears his nose starts bleeding because he's trying to manage two lives between the life that came from from his dimension and the life that he's now in this universe. There is actually I think they're called the Merge
01:13:32
Speaker
They're really cool looking enemy where it's like almost two faces melted onto one skull. Horrifying to look at, but that was supposed to be their equivalent to splicers almost. Unfortunately, they were cut from the final game. So the characters that you fight against get very samey. Yeah, very generic.
01:13:52
Speaker
Yeah, and even when you get to the Vox Populi and you think, alright, we're going to get variations, you basically get the exact same ones, but just with a different coat of paint. I mean, literally, you get these ones called handymen. feel so sorry for them. It's horrible, isn't it? It's just basically a head on a big mechanical body.
01:14:11
Speaker
But then they just kind of paint them a different colour and go, oh yeah, they're the Vox Populi handymen, and you're like, no, they're still the same. Well, they feel like children. When you first meet them, when you're at the fair and you first see a handyman, he's cowering because again, it's like King Kong. He's cowering from the lights of people taking photos.
01:14:27
Speaker
I don't know about you, but it sounds horrible to say, but you have to kill them to get on with the mission. And every time I had to, it just felt wrong. Yeah, if I cut in a child, it was like, look, I don't want to. It's not like fighting a big daddy where the big daddy won't attack you unless you provoke it. And even then the big daddy is only protecting the little sister. So canonically, story wise, it makes sense. And you don't need to attack the big daddy to save the little sister or sort of big harvest. and again, story-wise, it makes complete sense. Whereas the handymen, they were incredibly designed, fascinated. But because you had to kill them, just to me, I think it adds to the world as well. just made me feel uncomfortable. it was like, I don't want to. It just feels wrong. I just want to hold their hand. They should be like the little sisters. I want to hold their hands and let's walk to safety. Let's walk you out of Colombia. You shouldn't be here. I'm sorry. There's a dimension out there where it's like a big daddy looking up going, what?
01:15:12
Speaker
It's just the handyman looking down going, hello. Hello, father. I don't want to be a big daddy anymore. but but the handymen are incredibly well designed yes fascinating it's just for me i just felt bad i was just like look they just feel like children or like dogs puppies because even when you look at the promotional material and especially the e3 2011 trailer there is a amazing shot where the handyman tries to kill you and you dive away from him you go through the skyhook and then there's the bit where you have the like the shotgun you just aim it i know it's not realistic but looks so cool and you know you shoot him right through the heart and it collapses it's like an iconic villain that then was and again using villain mostly antagonist maybe is more appropriate but it goes from that to all right here's another handyman that you have to kill all right okay he If they were the villains, if they didn't have Songbird and they were just like the handyman or the handyman or just the one was the villain, then I don't think I would have felt so bad for killing them yeah because it would have been the fact of they are evil. And I'm sure they would have given a story reason as to why they're evil or whatever. But because you have Songbird... who is now the big villain, kind of not villain.
01:16:23
Speaker
The handyman just feels a bit sort of like you've got this brilliant character, well designed, well thought of, but it's just a big brute. That's it. It's like, oh, that's bit of a shame. All the marketing was like, oh God, this is a really big, incredible, new, big daddy type sort of creature. And then you play the game, you're like, oh it's just a big brute that if I shoot him in the heart, I get critical damage. yeah kind of gamifies it doesn't it yeah it does i like how when you shoot him in the heart he covers his heart so you know animation wise i like that because again it's reactory but at the same stage it's one of those where it's like he's just a brute yeah he's definitely more of the tank character yeah i mean technically there are two tank characters there's him and there's the automaton type characters where it's like george washington there's a robot which is great which is funny oh it's amazing it reminds me you know that simpsons episode where they go to itch and scratchy land oh yeah in fact it might not even be the itch and scratchy land episode but you know where they go to the founding father's room and it's george washington is a robot and it's like he pulls his trousers down because of it he's got like the terminator eyes going it's so silly but it's so funny but that's kind of what it is if you gave him a gatling gun I do like it when they go to the other dimension, when the robots turn from George Washington to Lincoln, which I thought, oh, that's interesting. That's funny. That's a good tension to detail. like, yeah, OK, change it. It's better than just putting a hood on a handyman. It's like you know, you've actually physically changed it. So it's no longer Washington, it's Lincoln.
01:17:48
Speaker
And Lincoln of all the things that he stands for and all that. So story-wise, that works. That makes sense. That's great. But again, it comes back to the handyman of you had such a brilliant concept and you just didn't do anything with it. And I feel like that's kind of the recurring thing of this game is the fact of brilliant ideas, loads of high concepts, either not as like it's done with them or not enough.
01:18:06
Speaker
I mean, that's true, though, because when you think about it, at the very beginning, at least the first half of the game, you're fighting the Colombian military, you're fighting the police force and everything. but then as soon as you get to the Vox Populi part of the game, they're Pretty much the same enemies, you know, just with a different colour of paint with instead of, oh, you're fighting blue and then you're fighting red. And it's like, yeah, it's kind of the same. I mean, the thing that annoys me most about the whole thing is, again, going back to the critique of the themes of this
Exploration of Systemic Issues in Bioshock
01:18:42
Speaker
game.
01:18:42
Speaker
is the fact that when initially you come into the world, and as we were speaking of in length at the beginning, you have this utterly amazing opening where you understand everything about this society. This is a society that prides itself on fake spirituality.
01:19:01
Speaker
They say they're Christians, that they're proud American patriots, or, well, I suppose... American, probably Colombian first and then American, but they cling on to all these ideals and the further you dive into the city, the more you realise this is a city built on systemic racism, it's built on exploitation and such. Well, it's also laziness as well, because they build this city and it's meant to be the pinnacle city. It's meant to be the divine right. It's heaven. It's glorious, but they didn't want to build it themselves. So they still took the minorities, the people that are not white, they still took them with them on these cities to do all the stuff they didn't want to do, to do the menial jobs, the rubbish, the janitor, to build this, i would imagine to build the cities, to keep the cities running. Yeah, you don't see them in the background, but they're there. And it just adds to, again, that lie of, oh, we built this. This is all of ours. And really, it well, no, you didn't because you live off the spoils, but you do none of the hard work. And all it would take is a few, again, the Vox Populi, a few of the people that are doing actual work, the minorities are actually doing all the hard stuff who really deserve the Colombia more than they do to go, you know what? I ain't doing this.
01:20:10
Speaker
I ain't going to work. I'm not doing this. I'm not doing that for the whole city to literally fall out of the sky. So it's one of those where it's like, it adds to the propaganda. It adds to the lies. And I think it's this direction where the story goes in is why I love this game so much is because it's very political, but they were brave enough to talk about these subject matters where a lot of games would only hint at them, maybe a cursory sort of mention.
01:20:33
Speaker
Whereas this game is like, no, it's very clear, very evident. And like I mentioned, if you keep your eyes open... and you pay attention to your surroundings as you're playing the game, you will notice these things. And I have to commend it for that. I've been brave enough to go in, no, we're going to tell this story. We're going to stick to it. This is what the people of Columbia are like. This is what Columbia is. This is the truth. This is the message that we're trying to convey to the audience. I'm going to stick our guns to it. And I appreciate for that because they could have easily just gone, nah, it's a bit too political.
01:21:00
Speaker
I'm like, no, no, we're going to step into the political minefield and run. See, personally, and I'm probably get a lot of ire for saying this, but I kind of wish they went a little step further with it. Yeah, I agree. Because honestly, I think what they do, 100% with you there, I do think that it is great that they went into this subject and they didn't hold back their punches, but... As soon as you get to that moment where, as we were saying, you step through the tear into the different dimension for the first time, in time travelled, I mentioned hopping, it's always going to be a very messy trope in storytelling. But as you said there, you know, you've stepped away from that world. So in that world that you've left, the Vox Populi are still a fringe group. They are still struggling against the establishment. So you've not really helped anybody. You've just left them for another dimension where they are top dogs as opposed to what you've just left there. And again, it's kind of like a switch in this game where you go from one society where it's dominated by, again, this American nationalism and exceptionalism and, oh, look at us and look at our founders, Zachary Comstock and Lady Comstock, etc., And then you just get the Vox Populi who are just as bad in and this dimension as their oppressors. And again, there is a great commentary there as well that, oh, if the people who are being oppressed suddenly get the power, are they going to rule the society in a fair and just way? Or are they- oppressed becomes the oppressed. Exactly. Are they just going to become the oppressor?
01:22:35
Speaker
Are they just going to substitute the class that they have superseded into them being the main rulers of this particular society? And that is interesting as well. But again, I don't feel as if this game breathes enough and it stops to talk about these things. I think it's great that they're in the game. I think that the building blocks are there.
01:22:53
Speaker
I just feel as if they could have gone that one step further to say, okay, what's really changed? Because from a mechanical gameplay perspective, that they've changed shirts. That's it. They've changed models. They've changed shirts. But gameplay-wise, is it's exactly the same fight. So there's no difference there. And you do have that, again, I was saying before with Elizabeth Therese. finally killing Daisy Fitzroy. And something I actually found quite interesting was that Daisy Fitzroy is a African American, whereas apparently her original design was, i think, a European white woman, which
01:23:29
Speaker
I don't think would have had the same impact. And obviously I'm speaking from, or well, we both are speaking from a British perspective, where these particular issues with race and conflict and things like that, I mean, obviously they've happened in British history, but it is very much a prevalent issue in the American society, and especially back then. I wish I could say things have got better, and to a degree I think they have, but you look at the news and things, you think, okay, this is just slipping back way too fast.
01:23:59
Speaker
It's a prevalent issue and it's an issue that needs to be talked about. But the thing is, I feel as if, again, when the Vox Populi take power, there's not really a discussion of what the power dynamic is. It's kind of anarchy all over the streets. Daisy Fitzroy suddenly wants to kill a child and technically they expand on that in the DLC, but of course this week we are just purely focusing on the main game.
01:24:23
Speaker
They kind of try and say, oh, it was a Destiny thing and it's like, I think I like that even worse. It's one of those where you jump from one fire to an even bigger fire. And you are right, they went far, but they didn't went further enough because the thing is, when you get to that universe and you meet Daisy, you jump into an already established world.
01:24:43
Speaker
in terms of this war has been going on for a while. There's already been another booker who has fought with them and died. So Daisy already hates you straight away. She doesn't like you. She doesn't trust you. She hates you as it is. So she gives you no reason as the player to care about her, to relate or try to somewhat compassionately sort of understand why she's doing what she's doing. it like you said, it's just a change of shirts.
01:25:05
Speaker
You know, we're not fighting blue, we're fighting red now. And it's like, oh, okay. So I'm in this new dimension. The main person who I'm here to help hates me because I'm not the booker that she knew, which is fair enough. But she never gives me a chance to explain myself. She never gives me a chance to prove myself or help.
01:25:20
Speaker
It's fact of he's the false shepherd. He's not the booker that we knew. He's not the hero, blah, blah, blah. And I feel like, yeah, it's a fact of if they had flushed it out where you'd got to spend more time in this dimension or you got to spend more time talking to Daisy, getting to know her, her getting to know you and understand like, look, I might not be the booker that you knew, but I am booker and I want to help you and I want to find Elizabeth. You I feel like there should have been more of that. But also I think it adds to the whole timey-wimey dimension up inside of it is the fact of what is never explained is the fact of every universe that they go to, there is an Elizabeth already there. So where is the, it's never explained, but where is the Elizabeth in that world? If Booker decided to join the Vox Populi and fight with Slate against Comstock, what happened to that version of Elizabeth? Did she jump ship and decide to go to another a dimension? Is she still locked in her tower? Was she helping Daisy? And did she get killed as well? There's little things, of little bits of detail that was a story where it's a fact of if they had more time to expand, it would have made that middle bit more interesting and more... And again, they could have told the more political side of it, of the idea of revolution, of oppression, of the oppressed becoming the oppressed, of why the Vox Populi exists And again, it goes into what I said, and it's it's true of America. And again, I don't want to get political, but Americans are very fat of like, this is our history. This is our history. This our history. We're proud and all this, but a lot of people, not everybody, but a lot of Americans. And again, I guess we do it as well in England. We tend to forget the parts of who actually was there, helped to build this society. It wasn't all just English white people.
01:26:46
Speaker
There was other people as well that were there to help build culture, build society. And they could have gone into that more with the Vox Populi of when you get to talk to these people and you get to understand why they're fighting and why they've made this militia, why they've made this cause. So I feel like I agree. I feel like they went forwards and they did it brilliantly and was very brave, but they could have done a bit more And they could have expanded on certain parts and made you connect to the Vox Populi, connect to their cause, connect to Daisy, who was the lead of it all.
01:27:16
Speaker
So that when we get the big twist that happens with her and Elizabeth, it's more of a shock. It's more gut-wrenching. It's like, I've just spent all this time getting to know her. And then that happens. It's like, oh my God. Instead of just like, oh, okay, well, that's done with. All right, on with the story. And the only payoff you get is Elizabeth's character has changed. Whereas, which is good for her character. And she is a brilliant character. Whereas if we got to spend more time in that period getting to know Daisy, then it's not only we feel like we've learned more about this world and about its causes, but also the fact of it adds more weight to Elizabeth when she goes with her character development, where it's like she didn't get to experience what Booker, us, the p player, experienced. So it feels a bit sort of like unease, unsure, unlike, yeah, it's like, i don't know. I want to say that losing a friend or losing somebody that you've gotten to know. And now you're with somebody who you don't know who they are anymore because they're not the person when you found them.
01:28:06
Speaker
And to get a little bit deep here, I know, apologies. You know, it's a Bioshock episode, we have to get a little bit deep. But personally for me, I think one of the most important things in life is the things that make us who we are in our life, whether they are... Big events, small events, you know, they can be good, they can be bad. And these are the causes that shape us into the people that we are. For example, without the disastrous lockdowns coming into effect, you and I might not have even met because i wouldn't have started the podcast. that wouldn't have done the Same with me.
01:28:41
Speaker
I wouldn't have started the podcast if it wasn't for lockdowns. Exactly. And, you know, because of certain things that I've done in my life, good and bad, and again, when I say bad, you know, it's just nothing exciting. Maybe grabbed an extra biscuit from the cupboard. So it's affected my waistline in another dimension. But the point is that that has changed and shaped who I am as a person. And I'm sure it's the exact same for you and exactly the same for all the listeners who are listening to this episode right now. But on that note, though, when you have characters here who as we're talking about you said something quite interesting there that you'd like to get to know Daisy Fitzroy a little bit better and we kind of have got to know her a little bit through Booker's interactions with her but we got to know her through the interactions of that dimensions Daisy Fitzroy for all intents and purposes when we get to the Vox Populi dimension Daisy Fitzroy says oh I knew Booker and he was a martyr for the revolution and she hates your guts because obviously you're this fake booker and that has completely shaped her outlook that has completely shaped the way she thinks about things the way she is going to interact with others the fact she almost kills a child over it because she's just riven insane it is so fascinating but again these are things that we only get a snippet of and i know there is that Slight theme of futility and predestination, because eventually you realise, oh, what you're doing in the game doesn't really matter, because it's always going to lead you to the lighthouse, it's going to lead you to very similar circumstances, you're always going to have a booker, or you're always going to have a cough spoiler.
01:30:24
Speaker
You're always going to have these particular moments that intersect. And it's just a shame that we're kind of hopping from part of a story to part of a story. And I know that is why they do it, but I don't know how much I agree with that type of storytelling. Personally, i would have preferred it if it was more like time travel. And I know technically it is time travel in some regards, because later on and when Elizabeth gets kidnapped again by the songbird, you have to try and save her and you realise you've come too late and you end up seeing her as Lady Comstock and she's taking her mother's place as it were and father. Proper old lady, isn't she? Yeah, and she's bombing 1980s New York. It's a really, really cool visual, but at the same time, it's like, what the hell is going on? And of course, you have to go back and save her and everything, but again, I'd rather it was like that.
01:31:17
Speaker
But again, I like some parts of the ideas, but it's one of those things that the more you think about it, the more you go... I don't know. And especially, and this is something i brought up the first time we discussed this game, but when we see Lady Comstock, and I am so hesitant to bring this up because it's not a part of the game I like, where you have to go all ghostbusters. Oh yeah, that was tedious. It felt like padding to me. It was like, oh, we're really close to the end of the game.
01:31:45
Speaker
We've got to draw it out somehow. So, oh, you've got to go full Ghostbusters, go from A to B to C, then back to A. It's like, it slows down the pacing to me, that one scene of like, you've just gone really, really quickly. We've gone from dimension to dimension. Now I'm having to be a Ghostbuster, but not fun Ghostbuster. There's a lot of exploration. See the fact that these are more open areas, whether they're streets or just essentially vistas.
01:32:09
Speaker
So where when you get to explore these parts, and especially with the industrial area there as like a safe, and you have to find the I think it's the code to crack. But these are all optional. Again, these are things you have to actively look for. And if you find them, you get particular weapons and upgrades and things like that. is really, really cool. But as you were saying, when you get forced into that with ghosts running about going, ooh, I'm your mother, it's like... Okay, we're doing that.
01:32:39
Speaker
I know that we're in this world and like, okay, we've got time travel, we've got dimension hopping. Okay, I can somewhat see the science behind that. And again, I do believe in ghosts. I'm not saying ghosts don't exist. But when you look at how this world works and the science and the whole time, rewind me of it. My question always comes back to where do ghosts come into that? You know, I don't know. I feel like that's why I suspend my disbelief of like, okay, is this real? Is she so full of vigor that she's just a ghost because of vigor? But that's the thing, though. When I first discussed this game with my friend, I asked him, because I hadn't played Bioshock at the time, was there anything like this in the original games? And something that Guy brought up and it was something that was very apparent by the time I played the games, was that unless you see echoes of what Rapture used to be, and especially in the second game, you get to see the world through the eyes of a little sister, and it's all very idyllic, and it looks like pre-Rapture fall, but there's no real supernatural elements from what I remember. It's all, although it's fantastical, it's all very heavily rooted in science. A lot drug abuse. If they'd gone the side of, oh, the reason why you're seeing this ghost is because Booker has taken so much vigour, he's taken so many salts, that he's tripping. This is not happening. He's on a trip.
01:33:57
Speaker
And that the ghost that he sees is not real. And they could have done it in a story beat where it's like, he does this back and forth for this ghost with Elizabeth's mother, ends up solving some sort of mystery, whatever. And then they could have gone on with the story. But when you just add in a ghost, you're like, where does this come into it? Okay, ghosts exist in this world, but why only just her mother? Why her mother?
01:34:16
Speaker
you know he never really explains it and it never comes up again it's just like oh i'm laying you to rest mother and you're like huh okay but i think therapy would have been cheaper i mean yeah instead of getting the ghost hunters and why are we doing this again Like, okay. Well, then again, you could say that ghosts exist in this dimension that they're in. I guess if you want to get around it. Yeah, I feel as if that is the biggest elephant in the room for this game. In terms of world building, I can excuse the time you wind my stuff. I can excuse the tears in space and time. But yeah, ghosts.
01:34:52
Speaker
It just, it seems like a weird addition. And again, you know, I'm not criticising anyone who just really believes in ghosts and things, but what I'm saying is that it just seems out of place. It seems more like fantasy. Because, I mean, you could argue that, oh, they had that in the first game with Atlas being the literal Atlas statue at the end of the game, but even still, I mean, that has more scientific credibility than and you know That's what mean. He's taken so much atom. His molecular structure has changed so scientifically. Makes sense in in this mad scientific world. But then ghost.
01:35:28
Speaker
Again, I believe in ghosts, but ghost. It's a bit like, this is strange, even for Barshak. Because even when you go into the asylum later on, after Elizabeth has her free coffee kidnapping, as it were. You know, trust me, a lot of damsels on Tishk. but she gets kidnapped you go to the asylum it's a very creepy mission but it's like a force well not forced but it's a stealth mission and you fight these is it the lost boys or something like that yeah again like the handyman incredibly well designed and creepy and like these are the type like you want to creep around them because you don't want them to see you because they're just so They've got giant horns on the heads.
01:36:07
Speaker
It's strange. It's like very sort of Tim Burton-esque, terrifying. They reminded me of Rapture. They reminded me of the splicers of I'm very unsettled. And when I first got to Rapture, when I first played the first game, it's one of those like, I'm terrified. Again, it's strange. You go from whole ghost thing and then you get to the asylum and it's like the game changes again. And it's now like a stealth mission. I'm like, I've never stealthed in this game. I don't know how. think that might taught you at all yeah it's like i've been skyhooking and i've been going dimension hopping never once have i ever had to stealth i've just had to run and gun and now you're telling him me i can't i mean to be fair technically you could just punch them in the face or shoot them but then they summon weird zombie creatures i just want to make one correction on myself there i called them lost boys clearly peter panning myself here but apparently they're called boys of silence So everyone will recognise them. The design for them is incredible. It's like the helmet with the big horns and they act as watch people, as it were, this particular asylum. And there's one terrifying moment where you find Elizabeth through the cameras and you're like, oh, I'm coming for you, Elizabeth.
01:37:13
Speaker
And then you turn round and there's one just staring right at your face. The first time I played through that game, and even today when I play it, I jump every time. I'm like, you bitch. You little shit. I tell you. Make me jump. But again, it's like they do the whole, oh, there's a intruder. And then that's not what they sound like, by the way. They sound a lot creepier.
01:37:33
Speaker
That's less terrifying. Yeah. Oh, hello. friend. Yeah, it's like they say, oh no, intruder. And then they disappear. Again, I'm not saying everything has to be immediately scientific and things, but it starts to feel more supernatural that they just summon these things out of nowhere and you're like, yeah, I got another combat mission. And then of course you find Elizabeth and you manage to exact revenge and Again, I love Elizabeth's characterisation in this, that she's just so driven by revenge at this point after being tortured and everything. But then you reach Comstock's main ship, and the finale's quite weak. Not the bit that comes after the combat mission, but when you meet Comstock, and then, you know, you end up giving him his own baptism for a bit too long, he dies, and then you get the nosebleed, wink wink, and ...then you're forced into this, again, massive combat mission......where it's like, oh, you have to fight the Vox Populi......and you have to wait for your ultimate attack to recharge......where Songbird blows up ships, yay! And you're like, oh, for God's sake, right, okay, here we go, blah, blah, blah......and that, for me, was a bit tedious......but fortunately it paves the way to the actual ending......which hell of a lot better. Well, kind of a lot better. I've got mixed opinions... a bit heartbreaking at first and then it' a bit confusing afterwards oh absolutely i i mean because the first thing that happens is once you get rid of the vox pop your life are good and you're like thank god so that's blue and red gone then songbird goes to attack you again because you lose the item to control and i think it's like a flute or something and elizabeth ends up going super saiyan because her hair glows by the way i'm not just making a dragon ball joke there but Her hair glows and she says, oh no, he's not going to touch us. She unlocks our full potential and she transports them to the rapture, both of them. And you have to watch as poor songbird ends up drowning, essentially, under the pressure of the water in rapture. It's really heartbreaking to see. But the one thing that I mentioned in the previous episode, and I was semi-laughing at it, often that partly because i would cry otherwise, is imagine if you were just a denizen of rapture.
01:39:46
Speaker
and you're walking around, and it's like, oh, this underwater martini's the best, and then you look out, and you see this big mechanical bird sitting down, and you're like, what the f***?
01:39:56
Speaker
Where did that come from? And you look over, and there's just, like, a well-dressed woman and a man, and you're like, what? you imagine Andrew Ryan sitting in his office going, I am Andrew Ryan. We shouldn't give our money to the mechanical birds. What the hell?
01:40:10
Speaker
What? but so Is a man not a... what what would That's not a man. We've got wings. I demand to speak to my lawyer. Fontaine probably set this up. but Just adds to the paranoia. I've heard of us at Fontaine. It was Fontaine. He got Fontaine and Atlas, but it wasn't me. I thought it was you.
01:40:28
Speaker
but He's saying to lot of these men, would you kindly go figure what it is? Because I can't figure it out. There's like two old men throwing stuff at each other. It was you. No, it was you. It's like the big dad who's looking going, no. like No, no, umm ah no, I'm not paid enough for this. I do love though, even though it's very heartbreaking, that she takes you to the beginning, to the opening moments of Rapture, the first place that you go to before you've got go through the tunnel and the tunnel c collapses on you. I love that. So it also sets the time frame of like, it's so it's set after Barshak 1, but it's I'm guessing it's before Barshak 2 because the city is still standing. When are we first got to go back to Rapture, I was enthralled because we get to go back to the place that we knew. And it also shows that these worlds are linked. But also the fact of, again, you are right, the funny side of it, of you just imagine that the splicers hanging about, getting some out of my little sister, else and they look out the window and there's like a big dead body just like float past all the windows and they just like pause and just watch it as it floats on by. Just Sander Cohen going, I should write another play.
01:41:27
Speaker
but I'm inspired by that giant bird, man. Yeah, the imagery is heartbreaking, but I think that is a great coping mechanism for it. Because the thing is, the songbird was just a creature that was bred to essentially look after Elizabeth. That's all its duty was. is A bit like the Big Daddies, where, and I spoke about this in the previous episodes, where when I used the hypnosis plasmid, and it was a lot easier to take them out, and I'm like, oh yeah, that's great. I'm going to mice them
01:41:59
Speaker
Tell me about the rabbits, George. Tell me about the little sisters, George. But yeah, that's how you feel when you realise, especially at the beginning of Bioshock 2 where someone uses a hypnosis plasmid on you and you know you shoot yourself. i was like, is that what I've been doing all this time?
01:42:16
Speaker
like, oh my god. I'm a monster! That how you feel about this, that this poor creature's only trying to do its job and you heartbreakingly have to watch it suffer and just slowly shut down. Again, slightly touching on Songbird. I know it was because of limitations and things. I just wish we had more there. She's so mean to him. And I get it. He's her warden, but he's not trying to hurt her. He's trying to protect her, trying to keep her safe. That is his job. And even when he finds her, he's not cruel. He's not mean. There's no speaking. You can tell it in the way he cranes his head and the way he looks at her. There's affection. There's love of like, are you okay? Are you all right? Has he hurt you? Because when he looks at Booker, it's that evil sort of red eyes. But when he looks at Elizabeth, it's calm. It's serene. and it's one of those where You are right. If we could have expanded on this, we could have seen more of Songbird. Or even if it was just contextual detail where if you looked up at the sky, you might see it. You might see Songbird flying around in the distance.
01:43:10
Speaker
Just little things to let you know that it's always there. It's always watching. At any moment, it could strike. It would have made that scene more heartbreaking, but would have been great for the story. And again, it's the same with the leader of the Vox Populi, of Daisy. If we'd spent more time with her and spent more time with Songbird, we could have, again, had a connection with both of them. So when their demise comes, it's more heartbreaking, but you understand it a lot more. It's like he was the warden.
01:43:34
Speaker
He's like King Kong. It was beauty that killed the beast. You know, it was his love of her that got him killed. It's Daisy's cause that led her astray that got her killed, which is still there, but it's tiny compared to how grand and huge it could have been and how heartbreaking it could have been and how big of a twist it could have been where it's like you've gotten to know Songbird all this time.
01:43:54
Speaker
So when Elizabeth decides to kill it, it's a fact of, I can't believe you've done this. This is the second time now you've done a twist on me where you've killed a character that I've gotten to know. And it really hurts if they had gone with, again, expanded the daisy side of it. Whereas because you don't get that expansion, even though it's still heartbreaking, it's one of those where it's like,
01:44:11
Speaker
it could have been so much more and you can just see the missed out potential so i get it five years or so working on this game no way they would have been allowed to do more but if they had more time or sort of more so less scope and more sort of tunnel sort of get all these big ideas let's streamline it and let's focus on the more important parts instead of just having these big grand ideas they could have had more time to do those things in that years that they had so yeah it's an absolute bummer it is because there was so much more we could have added with songbird but we didn't get It's just a shame that they had about, again, maybe I'm over-exaggerating here, but I'm sure it's about five or six games worth of content that they could have put in. And I know game development, and especially for a game like this, wouldn't have been easy. So I can understand why they cut the content, but it definitely feels as if there is essentially a big songbird-shaped hole this game.
01:45:03
Speaker
those literally yeah because there is so much that they could have added i'm saying this in hindsight after playing the game nearly 12 years on god i feel old 12 years on i feel old as well i was in senior school when this game came out oh god i was in university oh god it's even worse yeah but that's the thing though there could have been so much more done here and that's easy saying that in hindsight but if they had developed the songbird a bit more it would have made it a little bit more poignant and what i will say is while i did enjoy the rapture part of this game i just kind of wish this was the only content that bioshock infinite had in regards to rapture video let's see which is something that we will be discussing next week with Alex from the game pod it's going to be interesting to see his take on it i know we ain't going to go into full detail on it so I won't say a lot but what i will say is what i love about that DLC is as we keep saying they didn't expand on certain things and that's what i love about the DLC it's like they listen to the audience and realized there was a lot of people was like, if you expanded on this, give us more of this, give us more of that, more story, more behind the scenes details, we would have been able to connect.
01:46:14
Speaker
And I feel like Beryl at Sea, part one and part two, specifically part one for this review, because part one takes place primarily in Columbia. You get to learn more about Songbird. You get to learn more about Daisy.
01:46:25
Speaker
And I love it for that. But it's a shame that it's in a DLC that most people at more than likely, if they didn't enjoy the base game, wouldn't have paid for and played. which means they would have missed out on those extra details, which means there's a potentiality that they were still lost and sour on this game, and which will add to the fact of why probably didn't do so well.
01:46:44
Speaker
So it's it's just a shame where you finally get what you wanted. You got the expansion on the story of characters, but it's locked in the DLC. So I love it that it does that for me as a fan, but if it was in the game and then expanded on it more in the DLC, so you got more for your book, that, again, would have been better.
01:47:01
Speaker
but it's just the way is with DLC and expansions isn't it it's like oh we know we didn't have time so like we'll make it up to you in the DLC yeah because again it's a bit like series like for example Star Wars where you know something will happen and you'll go well that's a silly thing and then someone will come out and say but in the books they did this or in the novelization and it's like well we're not reading the novelization right now we're watching the film the film should be able to stand on its own two feet same with any film to be honest you shouldn't be depending on the wiki or external media to be able to say oh right okay you know this is why it's in here etc the dlc is an interesting one because again not going into too much detail myself but i've got mixed feelings about it because on the one hand i like the fact that oh it's cool you can go into rapture i really like the way the booker and elizabeth look think they absolutely nailed the noir detective kind of look. I just genuinely thought everything was fantastic, what they did there, the design and everything. But linking it, and spoilers for next week's episode, but the fact they tried to link it to the first game, I'm not a big fan of.
01:48:13
Speaker
It's like i'm mixed on it, because on the one hand... It almost makes it feel as if Ken Levine's daughter, as it were. is Because let's face it, she is one of his favourite characters. She was actually nearly cut from the game, which I genuinely cannot imagine that.
01:48:29
Speaker
That would be absolutely wild if they cut her from the game. But the fact that she is suddenly the focal point of the whole Bioshock universe and the reason all kickstarts. I mean, I love Elizabeth as a character. As I said, she's one of my favourite gaming characters of all time. But do I want her to be the centre of this Bioshock-y universe?
01:48:49
Speaker
Probably not. I feel like it works in terms of these first three games. But again, I feel like if they want to do potential references to Andrew Ryan or Ryan Industries, that sort of thing, or Columbia, Fink, if they want little references like that, fine but i want four to have nothing to do with rapture in my opinion rapture's done like we've been all around the city we've been everywhere there's no more stories unless they want to do a prequel which again is not needed because you've got the book same with columbia it's a one done story it's done whatever four is it needs to really sever that cord of like no elizabeth no booker no comstock no andrew ryan none of that it's its own thing It can be in the same universe set in the future, set in space, underground, wherever they want to set it. Just completely different. It's its own thing. I think then it would work.
01:49:35
Speaker
But i feel like if they tried too hard of like member berries, oh, you remember this? you remember that? It's like, am I playing something new or am I just playing the same as before just with a new setting? Because it's connected, literally connected. Oh, cool. It has a golf mini game. Wait a minute. Yeah, those not golf balls. Is that a head? Yeah. It's like a mechanical bird in the ocean. There's a golf game, but it's like sponsored by Andrew Ryan. Yeah, it's like, oh, oh.
01:50:00
Speaker
but Like that would be funny. We're like, oh, okay, I get it. It links in. It's a small little Easter egg. It's a little reference. If you've played the original games, you can enjoy it and get the gag, but it's not overly dependent on it. Whereas if it was like, this is Bioshock 4, let's say for argument's sake, it's underground in a subterranean cavernous world where like you've got more people and instead of big daddies and Andrew Ryan's brother or Andrew Ryan went crazy one night and went, just in case Rapture doesn't work, I'm building a second city underground and it was meant to be Rapture 2 or something like that. Then I'd be like, ugh. But if it was, oh, it's a city underground, it's completely different, it's got nothing to do with it, But it's still set in the same world. So there are sort of newspaper clippings or there's advertisements for so-and-so. That's fine. But it needs, you are right, it needs to sever itself. although Even though I love the Barrel at Sea part two is connected to all of the games.
01:50:50
Speaker
And in my opinion, it wraps them up quite nicely. But because it wraps it up nicely, it's done. It's like, need to move on now. It's like old hat. It's like, I don't want old, I want new. So reference it, Easter eggs, fine. Just cut the cord and start afresh. Yeah, because I feel as if you start linking one story to the other, because if they wanted to set it in Rapture, that's all fine and good. But it's the fact that they kind of say, oh no, not only are we linking to it but we are a key part of this story. So retroactively, they are slotting themselves into Rapture everything. And it's quite a morbid ending as well. Again, not to spoil it. Oh, it it is. It's very morbid. Yeah. I think all they really need in terms of a Bioshock 4 is a city, an idea, so a concept, a doctrine, something to follow, an idealistic leader, whatever, and a lighthouse. That's it, really.
01:51:41
Speaker
It's three things. A city, an idea, a lighthouse. Because I like the idea there's always a lighthouse. that I really appreciate it. like the idea because that's really, the lighthouse is a staple of Bioshock. So that's what they need really. And if the lighthouse takes you to space, takes you to another dimension, takes you underground, because they can't do underwater again and they can't do in the sky again. So there's only two other places they can go and that works. That's all they really need in my opinion. I don't know how you feel about it. Yeah, it's quite difficult to think where they would have it, because whenever you say in space, it reminds me of, is it Command and Conquer with Tim Cuddy? Oh yeah, Spurs! Yeah, Spurs! We're going where Andrew Ryan hasn't touched!
01:52:21
Speaker
Spurs! ah let's See, I wouldn't mind that. A communist sort of space station. Or even the moon. Or the moon. Yeah, dark side of the moon. That'd be great. Because the ironic thing is, and again, it's something I brought up in the first episode this month, but Ken Levine actually said that one of the reasons that he didn't set Rapture on like a different planet or in space was because he wanted a place that was isolated, but also relatable. You know, it's like he didn't want to send you to Glorbok 4 or whatever. and
01:52:51
Speaker
yeah Oh, you're fighting aliens, you know, because there's a lot of people out there who hate sci-fi. Although this story does have sci-fi elements, especially infinite, although they have that, then yeah, it's going to put off a lot of people. Whereas if you have a more, again, I'm saying grounded in a very loose way here, but more grounded in iconography that you understand, you know, you can see that 1950s fashion architecture, the Rockefeller kind of stuff. The art deco gothic sort look.
01:53:21
Speaker
yeah And it's the same with Infinite. You've got this just seeping in the 1910s. You've got that aesthetic that everybody's walking around, the way they speak, the way they act. It's definitely reflective of that time. And obviously not just because of the race relations stuff or the fact they're bigoted towards people who aren't from Columbia. But also you can kind of get a feeling for who you're dealing with. kind of thing so i don't know i think it's also ironic as well how the team that made the original bioshock games are i think it's can't remember the studio name i think it's campfire games i think it's called they're making a sort of well homage probably not the right word sort of a spiritual success at a another game i think it's called judas and it's set in space it's just like bioshock but on like a space station and if i remember correctly i think it was announced last year the before but it was on about you've got these loads of different
01:54:15
Speaker
characters on the space station and that's one of them controls the electricity one of them controls the air and you've got to make friends of all of them and again like judas you've got to try one to help the other so then that makes things worse and more difficult because it's meant to be made by the same people who made bioshock it is meant to be the spiritual successor to it so i'm looking forward to see what that people can do with that idea with that concept set it in space with a new idea a new concept And whatever 2K decides to do with Bioshock 4, whether it be announced this year or if it ever does, it'd be interesting to see the fact of what does the original team do, start doing something new, and what is this other team, whoever they may be, will be doing with what we already know. So I'm looking forward to that whenever we find out more about either of them is another question. But the future of Barshak, I don't know, but I'm happy with what we've got. I love the book, Rapshot.
01:55:03
Speaker
I love Barshak 1, 2. I love the DLC for both Barshak 2 and this one, even if it can be a bit convoluted at times. I love this world. Love these characters. Yeah, I'm sold. Like said, every year I take a pilgrimage into Rapture. I play Bioshock 1 and 2 every year. Sometimes I play Infinite if I'm in the mood. Not that i don't enjoy it, just the fact that I feel like you have to be in the right mindset to play Infinite because it's so timey-wimey and there's so much going on and there's so much to take in and absorb that if you haven't got the right headspace to really take it all in, you can lose things, you can miss out on things, not pay attention to certain things. So yeah, I love it and I will be taking a pilgrimage back into Rapture soon haven't started it yet but I'm looking forward to going back for the hundredth time because who doesn't want to have a holiday down in Rapture I mean that is very true and speaking of revisiting lighthouses of course That brings us to probably the final part of our discussion, which is the ending of this game. And is thing that I think you've praised, I've praised, my friends praised as well, where you wander raptured and then you go through different doors and you see there's thousands of lighthouses all around you. The visuals there are absolutely stunning. Absolutely.
01:56:15
Speaker
So, so damn good. You just look around going, oh my god, this is gorgeous. Infinite is a gorgeous game. I've said that before, but it's so gorgeous. And then you end up coming to the twist where you learn that, oh boy, this is where it gets complicated, but you learn that there is a fork in the road moment of your life,
01:56:35
Speaker
where after the Battle of Wounded Knee, you get traumatised and you decide to go to
Narrative Twists and Endings
01:56:41
Speaker
a baptism. And the butterfly effect is whether you choose to get baptised or if you don't, and this is your last chance for the biggest spoiler of the game, but if you had chosen to get baptised, then you would have been reborn as Zachary Comstock.
01:56:57
Speaker
And when I say that, I don't mean literally reborn, I mean spiritually, which again is this idea that I find so fascinating. for spirituality that he lived a life of sin he lived in just this horrible life as a soldier and think he was a pinkerton agent as well but he ended up deciding that he was going to renounce all that violence he was going to become a man of god stand up to the government and do what you do in that moment of clarity decide to build a civilizational up in the clouds, make a statue of yourself, you know, go nuts. On the other side, we have Booker, who decided not to go through with it. He ended up living his life down below. He never became Comstock. He decided, I'm gonna live with my daughter Anna, and And when you look at Comstock's story, this is the briefest way I can sum it up, but basically he came across the Lutece twins who, think technically it was only one of them, but one of them came through like portal or something. But anyway, it turns out they were the scientists who were responsible for the technology to create these tears. They're the same person, but like in one reality, they're a boy and in one reality, they're a girl. and I think that's such a cool dynamic when they come through, and, you know, they can read each other's minds. Again, not, like, literally, but because they're the same person, they can say, oh, I was going to say that, oh, of course you were. They have a great back and forth throughout the game, but because the machine made Comstock sterile, and I think it affected Lady Comstock as well, what ended up happening was, he thought, well, I could... could adopt a baby here in this dimension or i could steal my own baby from another timeline what am i gonna do hmm what would god steal the baby yep steal the baby that's the devil on his shoulder so he ends up stealing booker's baby or rather i mean he does steal it by all means but he pays him off and then booker has a change of heart tries to get his daughter back you see that
01:58:57
Speaker
her pinky gets severed when the dimension closes and it's like a really brutal scene but then you realise oh that baby is Elizabeth because she's got a thumble on her pinky finger that shows she's lost a piece of it and that twists the whole in the fact that Booker is this person's father and then it basically puts this game into the same category as The Last of Us us and god of war you know these dads looking after their children kind of thing but then you get to the most brutal moment where booker realizes and so does elizabeth that this is a key turning point that booker turned into zachary comstock at this exact moment because he was reborn and religious indoctrination is a hell of a drug that's all i'm saying that He believed he was vindicated. He was absolved of sin and everything. He is righteous. He deserves to lead this society in the clouds against what he deems as this corrupt government below.
01:59:54
Speaker
And they decide basically that they're going to kill him. And that very iconic meme of, oh God, I think we're going to have to kill this guy, Elizabeth. Dang. And then they drown you in such a visceral scene because they don't just drown you and then they fade to black. It's almost similar to what they do in Bioshock 2 where if you choose the evil ending they basically make you watch from, at least in that game, Delta's perspective, but in this game it's of course Booker's perspective, they put you under the water, you're struggling, you can hear the breaths as he's trying to get out of there. It's really horrific when you're watching it.
02:00:32
Speaker
And then eventually, because of that, you see all the variations over Elizabeth, who i think some of the designs are from the beta, which is quite cool, but they all start slowly disappearing, and that cuts off any possibility of Columbia, at least from Comstock's perspective, ever being created. And then if you stay through the credits, you get to that scene at the end where it's implied that Booker's still alive. Not...
02:00:56
Speaker
that booker that booker's dead but there is a booker out there who still managed to keep anna slash elizabeth and they are together and everything and it's beautiful it's one of those moments that at the very end i just put down the controller and i just watch the credits and silence because you get a beautiful rendition of so it's troy baker who he's everywhere and courtney draper who plays elizabeth singing will the circle will be unbroken together it's a beautiful song they are i think i playing the guitar as well it's like it's really beautiful but then you also have the reprise of God Only Knows from the barbershop quartet and it's just it's gorgeous it's amazing it reminds me of the ending of and again I don't know if you feel the same so did you ever play Telltale's The Walking Dead bits of it yeah spoilers for anybody who didn't but it's an old game But at the end of that, there's a beautiful song that plays over the credits, which I think it's called Take Me Back. And it goes, take me back, oh, take me back, oh, take us back, take us back. It's a beautiful song. And again, that was one of the moments where you put the controller down and you're like, I think I've just done. I can't believe it. It is like The Last of Us. It's like one of those. And I felt the same and when the story ended. I put it down and I was confused the first time I played it. and i was was like, I don't understand it. i don't get it. And then as I've played it more and more over the years, I get what's going on. I get the story. right Because again, it is very convoluted. It is one of those where you have to play the game a few times to really appreciate every detail and understand everything. But yeah, so it was one of those where I sat there and I was just like, put the controller down, listen to the music, listen to the characters sing. And then to realize the chain has been broken.
02:02:29
Speaker
But the worst possible outcome has been broken and that there's still hope for Booker and there's still hope for Elizabeth to be father and daughter, to still have a life. So even though we don't get to see what happens next, it's still open for interpretation of this Columbia, all this hate, all this bigotry, all this horribleness that we've been through will no longer exist in time. It never happened. It was a blip. It was a blink and you missed it memory.
02:02:52
Speaker
And that whatever comes next for these two, hopefully, because it's new, Again, it's still very angelic. It's still very sort of religious coded. It's that idea of you've washed away the sins. So hopefully whatever comes next is pure and honest and truthful.
02:03:05
Speaker
And there's no lies between either of them. They can go with onto the sunset and live a happy life, whatever that may be. So I love it. I do. I think it's a brilliant ending. I understand why people were confused at first when they first... came out and a lot of people didn't give it enough time to go back and play the game again and to listen to those extra details, knowing what you know, picking up on the extra bits and then realizing, ah, that's what it is. That's what it's trying to say. Because it is, it's all about washing away the sins and starting anew. It's like from the very beginning, the game tells you what the ending is going to be, what the whole point of the game is. You've just got to pay attention to it because the twins are there. They're always there. The lighthouse is always there. The coding of what the idea behind the story, sins. And again, as I mentioned, the wash basin, keeping clean, washing away everything, starting fresh, going on this pilgrimage. It is very religious coded, but it's always there, always in your face. And then when the story concludes, it's like, ah, now I get it. So I appreciate you for that.
02:04:01
Speaker
It honestly one of these games that is just so... It just ends so beautifully and it sounds weird to say that because literally the ending is just a guy getting drowned. Again, it's a very brave move. It's like, I didn't see it coming. and It wasn't a twist on the side of would you kindly, but it was still a twist of I can't believe it. You've killed me. You've killed the main character. That's it. It's like... Everything you've done, i thought, okay, we're ever going to get a good ending or a bad ending.
02:04:27
Speaker
Depends on the choices that you make. I didn't see death coming for me at all. i was like, oh, okay, I'm being drowned. Okay, what's happening next? Where's the cutscene? And then credits. i'm like, oh. I'm just imagining you sitting there looking at Elizabeth going, bastard.
02:04:41
Speaker
but Why? and it's not just one of you. It's multiple of you. I didn't even know you. You know me. I don't know you. Why are you involved in this? It's like the me six, isn't it? It's like, well, he wrote me into this. Well, no, he over there, he wrote me into this. I don't care who wrote who in. Why are you drowning me?
02:04:55
Speaker
We never met. I'm just thinking, Mordor, if you know king of the hell, that's my baptism. I don't know you. but trying to run you like i don't know you if you don't laugh you cry Yeah, is honestly such a poignant ending and I feel as if it is the only way it could have ended because as you said, this game is very heavily religion coded. Especially in this day and age, without getting too deep into it, but especially now and throughout history, religion has always been a thing that has either brought a lot of hope to people, it's brought a sense of community and it's brought kindness, but on the flip side of that, it's also brought a lot of hardship. It has been used as a tool for domination, especially when you look at this. that they use religious doctrine to almost deify what Booker becomes. You know, because Booker at the end of the day is an average guy. Well, he's a soldier with a lot of debt. But at the same time, when you look at this person, they are not using religion because all of a sudden, they've found religion and they want to share the gospel with other people. He's using it purely as a coercion tactic. He's using it to say this is a society that I want to control and I want a divine right of rule. A bit like what old medieval kings did essentially. You know they said oh I'm ordained by God so therefore no take backsies. What's the best and fastest way can I take over a group of people? Say I'm a god or say that I am a divine ruler. What I say goes because God has has willed it. That's the fastest way to get a populace of going oh he must be the leader because he's up on high and we're down low. You know so So, yeah. And I know I've brought this up about the fact he is a massive hypocrite, but there's even, well, I say implications, I think there's downright evidence that he had the Lutessis killed, or rather, I don't know if he had one of them killed, or just both of them, or he intended to kill them, but then it gave them dimension hopping abilities, which, again, there's a whole cat and a worms for another day, but actually, fun fact about that, speaking of the voice acting, because as I said, the voice acting is incredible in this game, but Did you know the Commander Shepard herself, Jennifer Hale, voices? Oh, really? Yeah. No, I never noticed it. She doesn't talk a lot where I was like, oh, God, that's Shepard. Yeah, the way she speaks, it's the accent.
02:07:19
Speaker
but Very English as well. And I'm so used to being very American. Again, shout out to Oliver Vicker, think, who plays Robert Lutess. I do think the dynamic between them is great, but I just wanted to point that out quickly. It would be great if she did sound like Shepard. You'd be like, Shepard, what are you doing here?
02:07:35
Speaker
Oh, the false Shepard! The real Shepard has returned! Where's Garrus? What's a synthesis? So is this what happened to you after you made your decision with the Reapers?
02:07:46
Speaker
No comment. Just row the damn boat. As a c closing in point for that, I do love what this game tries to accomplish with its themes. Again, you know, it explores the ideas of nationalism, explores racism, of course, it explores time away missionaries. as we said and the one that really gets me is the idea of spirituality because funny enough beyond the walls of the church and things there's not really as much spirituality going on and maybe that's just because i was running for my life from handyman or something but it's all very fake and false and insert your own interpretation of what i just said there but It's that idea that they want to believe in something.
02:08:33
Speaker
They want this ideal version. And this is something that i think has happened in history too many times to count. But humanity is, by all intents and purposes, a social species. We want to feel as if we're part of a collective. We want to feel as if we're part of this group that is working towards the greater good. And it happened in Rapture, of course, with Andrew Ryan and his motley crew of intellectuals and things. And as Fontaine slash Atlas pointed out very, very well,
02:09:05
Speaker
Even if you have this utopia, even if you have this amazing, oh, look, everybody's equal, everybody's doing this and that, you still need an underclass to maintain it. The people who are working in maintenance, who are working in labour jobs, they're not going to be able to get a break.
02:09:22
Speaker
They're going to be continuously working, continuously serving a higher personality. power it's never gonna end this whole cycle of again the circle getting unbroken as the song suggests which i know there's a lot of significance behind that but it's that idea that the cycle is always going to continue unless it's stopped at the source and again people riff on this and they say why don't you just kill baby booker and all of this rubbish and it's like oh come on don't be that guy don't be that if i had a time machine and i'm not finishing that sentence but you'd We all know where it's going. Yeah, exactly. But that's the thing, though. I think it's just so poignant that that's the moment, because that was such a significant part of Booker's life that either out of desperation, he wanted to cling to something in a life that had no meaning at that point. And on the other hand, he managed to find the willpower to continue. As we know, with the human condition, we... thrive through adversity at times to adapt and change into people we never thought we would become and I think Booker DeWitt and especially Elizabeth Comstock I think both work so well together it could have been easy for them just to write a generic oh I'm acting like a Disney princess oh I've got a lot of angst or oh I'm a gruff
02:10:38
Speaker
I don't know why he's from the south. Oh, I'm a gruff cowboy. he's not a cowboy. but Oh, I'm a gruff private eye, private detective. I'm going to do this and that. You know, there was a reason to all the violence. I mean, granted, some of it was a bit extreme, but there's a reason behind a lot of the actions that happened.
02:10:56
Speaker
And as a closing, closing point, this is my final point, I swear, I feel as if going back to the first game, as you said, nothing is going to top that because it is lightning in a bottle, it probably not going to happen again, unless it's a completely different game. IP. I appreciate Ken Levine for coming back to it and his whole team as well because obviously I know it's not just him but I appreciate them coming back to the series and creating this beautiful game but at the same time I don't think they're ever going to get back to the heights that they got to in the first game and there's nothing wrong with that. It just goes to show that a game from 2007 somehow is just so excellent. It's so much better than what came after it. And there's nothing wrong in riding that high to be like, I created this. This is my masterpiece. I mean, these other ones are good, but this is great. This is my magnum opus. Yeah. It's like, you know that old top gear...
02:11:54
Speaker
And Joghra is like, I like this one, but this. I love this. Exactly. like And honestly, I love this game either way. As I said, after playing the first two games, I prefer the other games for the way they tell their stories, the gameplay and such. But it's not a bad game though.
02:12:12
Speaker
No, not at all. Like I said, I think it's just misunderstood. I think people were so, again, want to use the word enraptured, they were so caught up in the hype, in the excellent brillantness of the first two games, that when they say they're going to make it over Bioshock, and then they say, oh, it's going to be like Rapture, but in the sky. And then we saw the trailers for E3, and it was getting you hype, and it was telling a story that we didn't really get. And then the game comes out, and you play it, and you're like, this isn't what I was told, or this what I was expecting. Again, I can understand why lot of people would fall off and be like, no, it's not for me. It's not the same. And go back to Bar Shock 1 and 2 and go back to Rapture. Because I was the same. I played it, enjoyed it at first, but I was still the same. like, it's not Rapture. But again, hindsight being a wonderful thing that is, you look back and you're like, you know what? Actually, i get it. I get what they're trying to say. Maybe I had to grow up and I had to mature.
02:13:01
Speaker
I had to read more books, get a bit more wiser, live a little, experience life. that It could have been that. it could have many things. But to come back to it and to play it and then for it to click. And then once it clicked, I was like, I get it now. It all makes sense.
02:13:14
Speaker
Sunk has had to change in me to get it, which is why now I can play it, love it, recommend it. And I do feel like if not already, whatever comes next, whether it be whatever they're working on next with Judas, whatever Barshot 4 will be, it will be looked back finally and people will go, i get it. But I think because how big it is and they had so many ideas and and they were so wide with the scope and they needed to narrow it more. feel like it lost a lot of people because it was too big. It was too convoluted, too a bit confusing, trying too many ideas when really they should have focused on a few ideas, not the many. That kind of put off a lot of people, but it is still very much clever, smart and well done.
02:13:51
Speaker
And again, it comes back to the fact of it makes sense now why it's taken so long for them to want to do a Bioshock 4 because how do you top that? How do you top one, two, three, unless you went somewhere completely different?
02:14:03
Speaker
But even then, what could that be? I can't envision it. I don't think I'm smart enough to try and think of what Barshot 4 could be. So either they try to top it or they just reboot completely. Me personally, I'd rather go with a reboot because at least then they can start afresh. Some most fans probably won't like that.
02:14:18
Speaker
But for me, I'd be like, start afresh, start new. Keep the fundamentals of a city, an idea, a lighthouse. That's it. Do whatever you want. I don't know how you feel about it. It's a difficult one, isn't it? Because Bioshock is basically an art piece of gaming. I know that sounds pretentious to say, but I genuinely think that it is one of the most impactful games of history out there. And if Mr Levine is listening, yes, I mean that. I'm not just trying to get you on the show.
02:14:45
Speaker
ah but All joking aside, genuinely, I do think that if they were to go for a new one, they should definitely distance themselves from Rapture, from, I mean, I don't mind if they maybe reference Rapture or Columbia. that's fine. Poster here or there, ah travel to Rapture, you know, the city of tomorrow, I don't know. That's fine because they get Easter eggs. Who doesn't love an Easter egg? Just don't have too many things of like, oh, the technology that made this city was provided by Ryan Industries. I'm like, yeah, okay i get it world wise but that links it too closely to rapture which means that ryan had his fingers in the pie i don't want ryan to have any fingers in any pies thank you very much this needs to be completely new yeah because i mean as i said and there will be something we'll be talking about next week but that was just the main reason i wasn't a big fan of the video at cdlc or at least the ending of it that linked
02:15:39
Speaker
that to Rapture because it felt as if Rapture was its own contained thing. Basically, i think the main issue I have with it is just the fact that whatever happened in Rapture, and it sounds like whatever happened in Vegas happened in Vegas, whatever happened in Rapture happens in Rapture. Yeah, exactly.
02:15:57
Speaker
like Whatever happened in Rapture stays in Rapture, swear to God. it But at the same time, when you're sitting there and you realise, oh, by the way, be careful because there's this interdimensional woman who pops in and out and, oh, she can control different things and it fails. feels as if the autonomy of that story gets slightly stripped away, that this is no longer a self-contained story, that if Elizabeth decided if she wanted to, she could easily march the armies of Columbia into Rapture if she wanted. Obviously that will never happen in the story, I hope, unless there's a Wattpad page or something. It's probably fan fiction out there where it happened. Yeah, exactly. But it sounds so gatekeepy for me to say I prefer it when it was isolated and weird. Just its own thing. I feel like the Elizabeth that we got in Beryl at Sea was like the ultimate Elizabeth, the the pinnacle.
02:16:50
Speaker
It's like if they if there was one, I hate to use this analogy, but like, you know, you got Kang from MCU where you've got the ultimate Kang and they all follow him, but they're all the same. I feel like the Elizabeth that we had in Beryl at Sea, she's the pinnacle, the Elizabeth. And there are other Elizabeths out there. I don't want to see them. But yes, you could say possibly this was the Elizabeth. and Now she's died. All the Elizabeths didn't really do anything big or wouldn't want to, even though they could, didn't want to put their army of Columbia and attack Rapture because... Yeah, it could happen.
02:17:19
Speaker
Don't really want it to happen. So yeah, Beryl at Sea does a fantastic job of, in my opinion, wrapping up the whole trilogy. Wrapping up nicely a nice bow and sends it off on its way and never to be touched again because it doesn't need it.
02:17:30
Speaker
I think that was my ending remarks anyway when I reviewed Beryl at Sea last year was the fact of don't need to touch it now. Whatever comes next, leave that alone. Don't touch it. Don't look at it. It doesn't exist. Just do something fresh. Put that thing back where it came from. or so help Help me. Don't, don't, don't, don't, don't. I mean, there's a box with rapture on it. Leave the box alone.
02:17:49
Speaker
Put that down. Put it down. Now I've got that. You know that scene that jingle all the way, but instead it's Andrew Ryan talking to Comsock. Mmm, these salts are so good. Put that salt down. No.
02:18:04
Speaker
but As you said, though, definitely for the future of Bioshock, let's keep the past in the past. If they want to reference it, go ahead and reference it. I am excited to see what they do in the future, but I think they have to rein it in a little bit. As soon as they started introducing time travel and interdimensional travel and such, I think they just shot themselves in the foot. Whether it was a blue gun or a red gun, you decide, but at the end of the day, a gun's a gun. and they shot themselves with it. Yeah, I think that whatever comes, it's going to be interesting to see what Ken Levine and the rest of the team that he has will accomplish, because I know Irrational Games no longer exist, which is such a shame, but I know he's got his own team and everything, and he's working on Judas, as you said, so whatever happens, it's going to be interesting, and i think I'm more excited for something like that than I am GTA VI. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, I'm calling you. out I don't want to date this episode, but obviously the showcase and gaming events are really literally a day or two away. So we could find out in a day or two more about that game. It could come out this year, it could come out next year.
02:19:13
Speaker
So I'm with you. GTA 6, I'm interested in it, but you telling me there's another game by Ken Levine, I'm all there day one. I'm more excited for that, whatever it may be, than anything else at the moment.
02:19:24
Speaker
Honestly, I think I'm just getting to that age where I prefer story-driven games rather than these big bloated quadruple A blockbuster
Gaming Preferences: Linear vs Open-World
02:19:32
Speaker
games. I was saying this to Dan. I'm getting to the point now where I miss the old days of Xbox 360 linear games where literally you go from point A to point B in a linear game where it's like you just go down a really fancy corridor. I miss that. I don't mind open world or semi-open world, but they're getting too much like Far Cry, where it's like busy work.
02:19:51
Speaker
I'm 27, but I'm getting too old. I'm an old gamer. I don't want to be doing no busy work. I just want point A to point B. Well, with someone on the wrong side of 30, I also sympathise. But yeah, I feel as if it's almost a relic at times where you look at Bioshock 1 and 2, and although has the illusion, ironically enough, of open world, same with, I mean, Bioshock Infinite is more open world in comparison, but... It's still very focused and linear, where it's like you still have one direction you've got to go into. yeah and i mean the arrow like you can press a button and it literally says go that way run that way there's a big arrow point on the ground you have to follow it so yeah hopefully they don't do the sandbox thing or put emphasis on multiplayer or i don't know i tell you the truth whenever a game says they're doing big open world sandbox nowadays it really turns me off i'm like no you have to do a lot legwork after that to get me back interested 100 i'm like look that's a lot of busy work i just don't have the time I've got podcast going, damn I've got things to watch, things to talk about, things to read. I don't have the time. And on that note, that is the perfect segue to end the episode.
02:21:01
Speaker
Thank you, Luke. Yeah, thank you, Luke, so much for coming on this episode and, yeah, talking about this wonderful game. It's been an absolute pleasure. but I've waxed lyrical how much I love this game, this series. I'm glad that I got the opportunity to talk about this game because, again, in my opinion, it's underrated and it's underappreciated and I feel like it needs to be defended. It's one of them games that has its flaws, yes, but it deserves to be talked about more as much as the first game does. So I'm sure Dan did a brilliant job with the first game and I can't wait to give that a listen. But I'm glad that I got to do the third game and really give it some justice, or at least I hope I did. Oh, absolutely.
Upcoming Content and Closing Remarks
02:21:39
Speaker
And as I said, next week we'll be doing the penultimate episode with Alex from the Game Club pod. And yeah, we'll be discussing the very interesting history of the DLC behind Bioshock. We've got some from the first game, but we've also got mainly Minerva Sten from Bioshock 2. We've got Burial at Sea, as we were talking about, which is going to be the main one.
02:22:03
Speaker
Clash in the Clouds as well. But let's face it, no one really talks about Clash in the Clouds. Nah, I don't like that. Nah. me neither. either There's your review for next week. Spoilers. but There's my lighthouse review there. Nah, i didn't like it. Too long, didn't read.
02:22:17
Speaker
But before we wrap up, where can the lovely Pandalorians at home find your content? So I'm from the Howdy Beans podcast. You can find me here, there and everywhere that you find podcasts. I'm on Spotify, I'm on Apple, I'm on Amazon.
02:22:30
Speaker
I'm also on your Alexa. So you have an Alexa advice to say, Alexa, play the Howdy Beans podcast and you'll find me there. I'm also on YouTube at the Howdy Beans podcast. So if you want to like, comment and subscribe, I'll be completely grateful and appreciative.
02:22:42
Speaker
Also, if you want to follow me on Twitter, Howdy Beans underscore pod and then you'll be able to see all the films books games and tv shows i'm watching and reading and going to be talking about soon so if that sounds like something that you're interested in if you like a bit of variety a bit of different sort nerdy topics then i am your bean and um Yeah, hopefully I'll see you there over on ah my channel. And yeah, if you want to catch more episodes from ourselves on Bioshock Month, as well as other collaborations that Luke and I have done, you can of course check us out on our website, chatsanami.com, as well as all good podcast apps.
02:23:17
Speaker
I also want to thank our amazing Pandalorian patrons, Robotic Battle Toaster, Sonya, Ghostie, and Cryptic 1991. Thank you so, so much for supporting the show. And if you would like access to exclusive episodes, early access a week ahead of schedule, as well as commentary tracks, looks, 10-hour cut of what he really thinks about Bioshock Infinite, for legal reasons that last one's a joke, then of course you can check us out our Patreon page, patreon.com forward slash Chatsunami. As you may have guessed, this podcast is a proud member of the Podpack Collective. For further their information, please check us out at our Twitter slash X page, Podpack Collect. But until next time, thank you all so, so much for joining us in this episode.
02:23:59
Speaker
As always, stay safe, stay awesome, stay hydrated, and can anybody call us a sky taxi? Because we've been waiting for about two or three hours. It's a long way down, guys. Come on.