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A Twisty Twist! Let's Discuss Detective Pikachu || AniMAYtion Month
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Welcome to AniMAYtion Month! This May we are diving into the world of animation by reviewing some of the genre's greatest entries, from 2.5D and stop motion to anime and live action hybrids. So get your pencils ready because this is one month you won't want to miss!
In this episode, Satsunami and Andrew strive to be the very best detectives like no one ever was with their review of Pokemon: Detective Pikachu! After six years, how does this video game adaptation hold up compared to its contemporaries? Is Ryan Reynolds the perfect Pikachu? And WHO did Satsu see this film with?! All this and more in our latest episode of AniMAYtion Month!
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Transcript
Exploring Rhyme City and Character Introductions
00:00:03
Speaker
The streets of Rhyme City are rough, gritty, full of CGI. Only took on this case to clear my name, but I'm worried I'm up Cerulean Cave without a Master Ball. Thankfully though, I have the perfect partner for the d- Hey, I'm Pika Pika here!
00:00:16
Speaker
Satsu, what the hell are you wearing? is that a Pikachu costume? Well, I kinda blew the CGI budget Avatar Month, so, you know, this is what we have. Wait, we have a budget? how Okay, final change.
00:00:31
Speaker
Uh-huh. Thankfully, though, i have the perfect partner. He's quick, electric, and enough. Is that a Ryan Reynolds mask? Well, it was either this or the Chris Pratt one, but for some reason Martin has it for the weekend. That's it. I quit. I cannot work
Animation Month Kickoff and Theme Music Discussions
00:00:45
Speaker
like this.
00:00:45
Speaker
Um, welcome to Animation Month, everyone. Ah, peek-a-pee.
00:00:53
Speaker
Hello everybody and welcome to another episode of Animation Month. My name's Satsunami and joining me is none other than my partner in crime, it is Andrew. Andrew, welcome to Animation Month. I wanna be the very best that no one ever was. Damn, damn, damn. Hi everyone.
00:01:14
Speaker
That's gonna be this whole episode just as riffing on the Pokemon theme. If I knew enough by heart, I'd just stop going to the PokรฉRap. You mean Electro, Diglett, Nidoran, Mankie, Vanessa, Rattata, Fero, and dare I say, Pidgey. Yes.
00:01:27
Speaker
All right, then. You've you got me beat. I have to say, i was singing it in and the car with my partner the other day, and by with my partner, I mean that she was in the passenger seat. know your partner. There is in no capacity that she would have been singing along to the PokรฉRap. I do not believe that she would have known the PokรฉRap.
00:01:43
Speaker
No, it's actually quite interesting because she didn't grow up with the English dub, or rather, she didn't grow up with our dub of the anime. And yeah, between that and telling her what the Digimon theme turned into, yeah, Butterfly it is not. and Instead, Digital Monsters Are The Champions is apparently a massive downgrade, and I do not blame her for that. But Unfortunately, we are indeed not talking about Digimon this time, although we do have to do that for an episode because it is a fascinating
Detective Pikachu: CGI and Cast Insights
00:02:14
Speaker
and series. these But today for Animation Month, we are diving into where real life mixes in with the world of CGI. This time, we are discussing Detective Pikachu, which honestly, I have to say, it was a surprising release at the time.
00:02:31
Speaker
It came out in the 3rd of May in Japan and the 10th of May in the USA in 2019. I don't think anybody was really expecting this film. So before we dive into Andrew, I've got to ask, see when you heard about this film, see when you heard about Ryan Reynolds playing a Pikachu, trying to find the guy from Jurassic World's dad and everything. Where are you hopeful?
00:02:56
Speaker
I was interested in it for sure. I was aware of the video game that had existed prior to this, that the movie itself is based on, obviously not just Pokemon, that there was the Detective Pikachu video game. I had never played it. I saw lot of people linking Danny DeVito to play Detective Pikachu based on things that they had done with the video game. I don't think he ever actually voiced the video game. I think people just kind of dubbed him into it, but that was kind of what I was expecting. So when I heard it being Ryan Reynolds, I was pretty perplexed by that choice, but it was intriguing enough a concept that I was willing to kind of give it a go and that I did actually go to the cinema with my partner to go see this back in
Nostalgia and Controversies in Pokemon Films
00:03:32
Speaker
2019. Yeah, it was just such a left field decision because I can't remember the year that... Do you remember when they remade the first Pokemon film, but they made it with that really horrible CGI? Yeah. Yeah, I think that was after this, though, wasn't it? I think so. 2019, so count the same year.
00:03:50
Speaker
Oh, there you go. Yeah, I remember hearing about that at exactly the same time, and I was like, I thought that they would maybe go for something like that, but I feel as if by 2019, especially the run of, although they had more after it, the run of Ash Ketchum-centric films was probably running dry. You know that scene out of Lord of the Rings? The age of Ash Ketchum is over.
00:04:13
Speaker
but The age of Ryan Reynolds has begun. Justice Smith. Oh, God. We'll get to him. Don't you worry. What's interesting is that this is the first theatrical release for a Pokemon movie since Pokemon Heroes. And that was, what, back in like 2005, 2006?
00:04:26
Speaker
Something like that. Yeah. That's actually surprising. thought the last theatrical release was the third Pokemon film. No, I actually... Did I go to the cinema to see that? I think I went to the cinema to see the fourth one, Pokemon Heroes.
00:04:39
Speaker
But I certainly had on DVD because I watched that a lot. That was the one with Larios and Larias, wasn't it? I just have to, I'm actually there. It was actually the fifth film, I think. Oh, was the Celebi one the fourth one? Well, it's called Pokemon 4 Ever, yeah. Oh yeah, that makes sense.
00:04:52
Speaker
It wasn't called 5 Ever. That means he's going to be with them one more than 4 Ever. You know that one, it was like 12th Pokemon movie or something where Pikachu speaks and is like, I love you. That feels like that's Pokemon 5 Ever. That sounds about right, to be fair. And I also watched that film. I was not a fan, but...
00:05:09
Speaker
I've not seen it, I just saw the clip online. The first time I saw that clip was someone had shared an in cinema or something like that. there' was some sort of screening that was happening and and the entire crowd gasped and were like,
00:05:21
Speaker
Yeah, that was such an overreaction. No offence to the people who did react like that, but I remember seeing that exact video and they're like, oh god, Pikachu's talking! and I guarantee you 70% of the audience is adults as well. Oh no, try 90. Come on.
00:05:37
Speaker
There's like one child saying, I want to go home, dad. Quiet, Billy. We're watching Pikachu speak. What's a Pikachu? I'm a Digimon fan. I have no son. Oh, but anyway, my theatred experiences a
Personal Experiences and Merchandise Anecdotes
00:05:50
Speaker
aside. Actually, just I just want to quickly say, when I went to the cinema seat to see Detective Pikachu back in 2019, I remember I went either before the film or during the film. At some point, I went for my usual toilet break. It's become a staple. And when I'm talking about films, it's all at the cinema.
00:06:04
Speaker
but Did you just must the entire film? No, I didn't miss the entire film for this one. But I remember, I think it was before the film started. I went in and small child in the urinal next to me to start a conversation with me. And I was like, okay, you small child. And he was like, what film are you seeing? And I was like, Detective Pikachu. And his eyes just lit up. He was like, me too.
00:06:21
Speaker
was like, oh my God, I'm clearly 20 years older than this child. Not quite at that point, but almost. I'm like, yes, I'm also here with my child. I'm not here with my now fiance, soon to be wife. Well, that makes me feel quite sad because do you know who I went to see this with? Adam. No, my mum.
00:06:39
Speaker
I kid you not. Right, here's the thing about Detective Pikachu. This is not a joke, by the way. So sad, so lame. Did she buy your ticket? No, I bought my own damn ticket like a taxpaying adult. Did she buy you your popcorn? Maybe.
00:06:55
Speaker
but no the reason for that in all seriousness i remember it came out and at the time my partner wasn't here so i didn't really have anyone to go with i think for the most part everybody i knew that i could have gone with they had either seen it or they had absolutely zero interest in going i remember asking my brother as well when he was like yeah honestly he pulled the most disgusted look and he was like the detective pikachu and then my mom was just like yeah I'll go. but So yeah, we went. I had a good time. Honestly, no shame for it.
00:07:28
Speaker
but It was almost the last film that I saw pre-pandemic, I think. oh I'm trying to remember. No, it wasn't the last one for me. What was that again? Oh, I can't actually remember. I think the last one I saw was My Hero Academia movie or something like that. I can't remember the last one I saw before the pandemic, but what I do remember is it was the whole family. We all went out to watch it. But yeah, going back to Detective Pikachu, yeah, we went to see it. had a good time with the film. It was great. Yeah. Yeah, it's an interesting film because it's one of these films that is very nostalgic. It's packed with references to the games, to the franchise and
Pokemon Design Opinions and Merchandise Craze
00:08:06
Speaker
whatnot. But there's good bits, there's bad bits, and then there's a very fascinating bits. So before we go on, of course, the Pokemon are based on, and for any millennials, you'll know exactly the art I'm talking about here because you and I were talking about it before we came on, the art of RJ Palmer, who is an absolutely fantastic artist, but he does the hyper-realistic art of Pokemon. And I remember seeing the trailer for it and everything thinking, these Pokemon look very familiar. obviously other than the fact they're Pokemon, but you know, the design and the art for them. And then I was like, oh my God, that looks exactly like those hyper realistic Pokemon. And it was really cool to see that they worked with that and they managed to bring it to real life and render them and everything. Some look better than others. I'm going to be honest, but again, we'll get to that. Of his art style prior to the movie, or do you mean the movie itself's interpretation some the Pokemon? I think some of them are interpreted from his designs yeah right yeah you know the kind of hyper realistic scales and charizard and yeah i agree there's certainly some of the pokemon that i felt worked better than others i don't know if it was that was a case of they maybe weren't designed to how i would have prefer them to be designed or if it was a case of they just don't really translate well to a live action. I say live action, a realistic CGI format. Some do belong in a very cartoony kind of look. Gengar was one that I felt didn't look quite right to me, but i think that might be a personal preference in that one. No, I'm totally with you. There there were definitely some that blended in and they looked absolutely incredible and then others it's like their design is so cartoony i think they would really struggle with some of the newer designs of pokemon because they look a lot more cutesy and very simplistic and don't get me wrong the first to i want to say sixth or seventh gen you know they've got their simplistic designs but compared to this one Yeah, there was the fluffy ones like the, well, Pikachu, of course, Panjam. You had Ape-Bomb. You had all these fluffy ones. You had Snorlax as well, who was weirdly fluffy, but I didn't mind that. Yeah, there was definitely a mix.
00:10:15
Speaker
Speaking of the designs, and I don't know if you heard about this, but apparently in Japan, there was a lot of people obsessed with the way that Pikachu looked in certain keyframes. I don't know if you've heard about this, where his face would scrunch up. so he would look like an old man. They were giving out stickers of this. That's fun. Yeah, I'm not even joking. There was a guy who went over to Japan. The only reason I found out about this, it was a YouTuber who went to Japan to see Detective Pikachu, but he bought a ticket and then he's like, I've seen the film already. And then he put the ticket in the bin just to get this sticker. Oh my God. What the i hell? Yeah.
00:10:52
Speaker
We got Pokemon cards from the cinema we went to. There was ones that were specially made for the movie, so there was like a Detective Pikachu card, there was Snubbull. The designs were hyper-realistic ones. That was quite fun. Yeah, i'm looking at it now. The title for this particular thing is, Furrowed Detective Pikachu Turns Into Official Real Life Stickers, and it's literally just Pikachu with a scrunched up face.
00:11:15
Speaker
those things from the film like when he's hiding and from Charizard when he's singing the Pokemon theme but yeah apparently that was a Japanese only thing it wasn't here funny enough the theater that I went to they didn't offer any stickers or cards or anything but what I remember getting was and this is so sad but I remember getting the DVD of it purely because I saw it in the shops and I'm like ah nah, I don't need it. And then it's like, but it comes with a free card.
00:11:44
Speaker
So of course I'm like, won it, I won it, won it. It's got Pikachu sipping coffee. I think that's probably the same one that you must have. Yeah, quite possibly. I can't remember sure if it's him sipping coffee, but think you might be right. It's just a still of the film, to be honest, which on the one hand you think, That's a little bit lazy, but on the other hand, it's cool.
00:12:02
Speaker
It's still cool to have. It's nice to have a unique movie tie-in card like that. And before we get into the film, I of course took to social media to ask our amazing Pandalorians what they thought of this film. So the first comment that we've got is from Desec That Film that says, This was a lot of fun. I loved how the Pokemon looked, and seeing them in live action was a treat. Gamesperience podcast said, The Pokemon did not look as bad as I feared.
00:12:29
Speaker
Yeah, and that's a fair point. There was a huge concern of doing Pokemon in live action that they would come out looking like the nineteen eighty s Super Mario movie or something like that. Oh, God. Yeah. Or ninety ninety s like I can't remember when that was. 93, unfortunately. Yeah. Early 90s Super Mario film. But they looked, for the most part, very much as you would hope that they would look.
00:12:50
Speaker
With a few exceptions, and a few notable ones. Like Mr. Mime was one that would often be brought up as like how terrifying and why he looked like Dwayne The Rock Johnson. I mean, even Adam is terrified. If you listen to our Living in the Pokemon World episode, he absolutely hates Mr. Mine.
00:13:05
Speaker
It's like I'm going around saying, oh, I'd be terrified if a Beedrill flew through my window. He's like, no, Mr. Mine breaking into your house. I agree, but stuff. I am fascinated by how society would operate in a Pokemon world because they kind of gave you a bit of a glimpse into it but I don't feel like they fully illustrated what was going on because for some of them there was a harmonious oh they're assisting each other with jobs that bird pokemon is flying up this piece of equipment to that crane and that machamp is directing traffic and that kind of stuff but then you have some that are just like out and about that are kind of more chaotic animals that have these superpowers that can mess you up any given time and not all of them are going to be acting with the best intentions
00:13:46
Speaker
And I also was curious because they said at one point when they got to Rhyme City, no Pokeballs, humans and Pokemons living together in harmony. And I was like, well, does that mean that you can only really have one Pokemon as your partner? Because you can't be just be walking around with a troop of Pokemon. And like some Pokemon are gigantic.
00:14:01
Speaker
You just not live in the city if you have a very big Pokemon. One point they evolve a Magikarp into a Gyarados. What's that Gyarados doing now? Because surely it needs to be in water by some point. I think it's probably like Zootopia logic.
00:14:13
Speaker
Maybe there's different areas that they could probably live in, but I know what you mean. Segregation is what you're saying then. If you want an equal society, Rhyme City ain't that. That's what I'm saying. You know, surprisingly, i feel as if our interpretation ours.
00:14:28
Speaker
as far off as what's in this film but before we dive in we
Rhyme City Dynamics and Future Speculations
00:14:32
Speaker
have one more comment and that's of course from a amazing friend of the podcast cold case candace the social detective podcast who says one of my favorite films can't wait and i think that is the perfect comment to leap off and yeah discuss why we wouldn't live in this world so andrew are you ready I think so. dawned on me this might actually be our first episode talking about Pokemon together. I don't think I've been on any of the previous Pokemon episodes, so this is going to be a fun deep dive as well. You know, I think you're actually right. So as I go away and process that information, we will indeed be right back after these Poke Messages. Welcome to Chatsunami, a variety podcasts that discusses topics from gaming and films to anime and general interests.
00:15:15
Speaker
Previously on Chatsunami, we've analysed what makes a good horror game, conducted a retrospective on Pierce Brosnan's run as James Bond, and listened to us take deep dives into both the Sonic and Halo franchises. Also, if you're an anime fan, then don't forget to check us out on our sub-series, Chatsunani, where we dive into the world of anime. So far, we've reviewed things like Death Note, Princess Mononoke, and the hit Beyblade series. If that sounds like your cup of tea, then you can check us out on Spotify, iTunes, and all good podcast apps.
00:15:44
Speaker
As always, stay safe, stay awesome, and most importantly, stay hydrated.
00:15:53
Speaker
We're Seismic Cinema. I'm Colin. I've probably not seen it. Paul's watched it the wrong order. And I'm James, and I've probably written an essay on it. And that's Sighting Cinema, we believe in the power of escapism.
00:16:08
Speaker
thank go for that i'll do And we are back. So let's dive into the world of Pokemon to Detective Pikachu. Honestly, I think that this film is probably a good, and it almost reminds me a little bit of the Super Mario Brothers film and the Sonic the Hedgehog film, in the sense of, I think that this is a good stepping stone film, that if they were ever to make a sequel on things, which as of this episode, they haven't, which I am really surprised that, I don't know about you, I believe there's one in development.
00:16:41
Speaker
I don't know if it's going to be within the Detective Pikachu kind of idea or if they're using the Pokemon as almost like Pokemon colon Detective Pikachu there's going to be other Pokemon movies that are live action CGI hybrid going forth with other stories that are being told. Pokemon, a Snorlax story. Just telling the Godfather in Pokemon. Yeah, I'd watch it.
00:17:00
Speaker
Yeah, it's just, it's really surprising that they never really, at least they never really capitalised on it because as far as I remember, this film was really received well and it was one of the best grossing video game films of all time up until, of course, Sonic came along and just spin dashed right all over that. I think it was the Super Mario Bros movie that officially took it over as the highest grossing video game movie of time. Until that point it was, but then the Super Mario movie movie had made like three times what this one earned. Oh yeah, it's ridiculous money. We of course talked about that, ooh, two months ago I think, and again for the highest grossing the video game film. I think Martin and I were very lukewarm on it, we were like, yeah.
00:17:40
Speaker
It's good, but again, it's not perfect, which i know you don't expect that from their first foray into the world of Pokemon. So, of course, because it's animation month, I'm going to turn it on you first and ask you, what did you think of the animation in this and the effects?
00:17:57
Speaker
because, as we said, this is a hybrid between live action and tennis balls getting flown in their faces, masquerading as Pokemon and whatnot. How believable did you find it? Obviously, you know they're not real. I know, for all the younger Pandalurians. I know, for all the younger Pandalurians crying, it's like, leave the room.
00:18:17
Speaker
but ah Yeah, how did you feel? Did you think it blended really well or did you think there was kind of awkward moments where you're like, nah, that doesn't work? I think for the most part, I thought it blended pretty well.
00:18:28
Speaker
And I thought all the actors did a decent enough job of pretending that there was something there with them. The weird one was when Ken Watanabe was stroking Snubbull's head at one point. And I was like, this is a fantastic actor who's doing an absolutely terrible job of acting in this movie and like pretending that he's stroking this invisible thing. i was wondering if there was a dude in just like a green screen costume that he's just stroking the head of or how they filmed that. Because I don't remember when I was watching the behind the scenes stuff for the Sonic film, they used real life puppets to kind of gauge where they were and it's honestly some of the most funny behind the scenes stuff. You're just looking at that this very serious scene and it's just a Sonic puppet going, oh my gosh, no way.
00:19:07
Speaker
hey ah but Honestly, it must have been quite a... Well, not a challenge because I was watching the behind the scenes stuff with Brian Reynolds talking about it and I think his main draw for this was that he wanted to be in a film where he could watch it with his
Roles and Performances in Detective Pikachu
00:19:23
Speaker
kids.
00:19:23
Speaker
He does not have many of those, so that's fair. What's it got? Deadpool, The Proposal? Oh yeah, child friendly. And he was essentially just Deadpool again in this. Pretty much, yeah. There were some moments where you could see the lines kind of being blurred. One of the performances that I really want to point out, and i pointed out to you, and this is how impactful she was that you didn't even realise she was in it, because I was the same. That, of course, being the singer Rita Ora.
00:19:48
Speaker
I have no idea how she wrangled a job in this part. It's such a bizarre casting because who are you doing this for? Who's going to be like, oh yeah, Ria Ora was in this? For like two seconds, yeah. And yeah, she has such a brief cameo. It's not very recognisable because she's wearing like a full hazmat suit kind of thing.
00:20:06
Speaker
So it was very odd. i don't know if it was just her attempt to kind of get into, gain acting credits so that she can maybe do more acting going forward. But she didn't really stand out enough that she would likely get anything else after this. i don't know if she did or not, but. But it was very odd. i guess it was during when Ora was a bit more well known as well. At the time of recording this, I don't think many people are still talking about Rita Ora. Yeah, PR ah department dropped the ball there.
00:20:29
Speaker
but Drop the Pokeball. When Rita Ora isn't on screen in Detective Pikachu, we want our child audience saying, where's Rita Ora? Where is she? The only reason I make such a big deal about this is just the fact that it almost took me out of the film completely. When you hear this person in the most monotone way go, oh no, there is a containment failure. Oh my gosh, explosions. Again, I'm not expecting, you know, thespian, Shakespearean acting here. It's Detective Pikachu, come on. But I'm expecting a wee bit of effort. Come on. It's like, this is the first line of the film. That's the thing that baffles me. well What's even more baffling is flashing forward to the ending is there's a big parade scene and everything. And I thought, well, if you were going to incorporate her into that, you know, you could have her as, I don't know, an idol or a pokey singer or something like that. But no, as you said, she's in a hazmat suit. She could have been Jigglypuff. Yeah. Yeah, she could have been fun, no! Yeah, it was just a really weird casting choice. Anyway, sorry, that's my rant for that. And for the evening, but for the other actors, I have to say when I saw Justice Smith, I kind of recoiled a bit because the last time I saw him in the film was the second Jurassic World film. I still don't think I've seen the second Jurassic World movie, be honest.
00:21:43
Speaker
Yeah, I saw it in the cinema. It was not a good time. Jurassic World, you can wave it off and say it was silly, but it was fun. Jurassic World, Fallen Kingdom. That was horrific. Yeah, it was a year before this one, and I just remember him as the lab assistant that always was screaming in the camera, and it was, oh, it's so funny, ha, he's screaming into the camera. And don't get me wrong, he has a few moments like that in this film, but yeah, it was just really annoying. They turned back his role in the third one, which I did actually see. like For some reason, skipped the second one and went to the third honestly, you're not missing much with both of them.
00:22:17
Speaker
They double down on the dinosaurs being in the military, which again is the weirdest fan fiction like I've ever seen. It's a bit like this, where it's like, oh, we're cloning Pokemon for the military. It's like, but why though? You have guns? Why would you do this? Well, not only that, why do you need to clone them for the most part? I mean, or some are legendary like Mewtwo and stuff. Fair enough.
00:22:35
Speaker
Or Mew, rather. But there seem to be quite a lot of them and you can breed them as well. So what's the need for cloning? Except they I guess they they do like that weird genetic manipulation. to make like what do they do the greninjas they just made them aggressive yeah they just make them stronger yeah and then the tort terrors were just huge yeah i love that i will go into that later but i did love that and the words of daft punk they made them harder better faster and indeed stronger that's probably where they got the idea like what do we do in this genetic lab and then daft punk come and go leave it to us guys we've got
00:23:09
Speaker
That's the weirdest show I've ever made in Chatsunami, I apologise. Yeah, going back to the animation though, I feel as if it does hold up, like the effects do hold up, but it's that uncanny valley bit at times. I think Pikachu definitely blends in. He looks cute and everything. He's got the deer stalker hat. He's got the addiction to coffee, which I was like, same Pikachu. Oh my god, I'm relating to Ryan Reynolds and the Pikachu. I like that.
00:23:34
Speaker
I thought the characters as well, as you said, it was really interesting. The one that confused me though was Bill Nighy. That was a very bizarre role that Bill Nighy had.
00:23:45
Speaker
Spoilers, he's the villain of the film. No. you want to see plays it? Like I've seen Bill Nighy play every performance. Yeah. Except maybe like Davy Jones. He's quite a campy actor from what I've seen of him and that came across in this and it did seem very much like a I don't know what the hell I'm talking about in this Pokemon world situation, which was probably me the case for anyone they cast, but they had him set up as this overarching villain was not the strongest point in the film, I'll say.
00:24:11
Speaker
Yeah, because I thought that exact thing where think it was Pikachu himself who was like, sweet Arceus, that hit the good spot or something like that. And you know that way they're obviously trying to tie it into the bigger world building and they do have the Poke Gods, as it were, behind Bel Nye and things like that. all the cookie keep thinking throughout it you as an adult obviously kids wouldn't really pick up on that but as an adult thinking i wonder what these guys are thinking you know when they say these things it is bill nighy saying these things and he's like i was in love actually you know it's like that's nice mr don no no i was in fighters of the caribbean too that's nice obviously he's been in a heck of a lot better You know what mean. His role as David Jones was his magnum opus actually. I mean, true, true. Anyone who runs out in a mocap suit, I mean, just look at Andy Serkis. You should have had Ryan Reynolds in a mocap suit just running about. When you were talking earlier about using puppets and having someone there, i was kind of hoping that Ryan Reynolds was in a Pikachu onesie during the scenes just as like a point of action character. That would actually be amazing. I'm not going to lie.
00:25:14
Speaker
I thought for the most part, though, the actors did a great job, especially with Justice Smith, as we said, who plays Tim Goodman. We've got Catherine Newton, who plays Lucy Stevens.
00:25:25
Speaker
Bill Nighy as the devious Howard Clifford. That's the British sounding name ever, as well. But yeah, no, I thought for the most part they all did a great job and although they had some clunky dialogue, I'm not gonna lie, there was a lot of dialogue where I was kind of sitting there going, yeah, I bet you they were reading that out and then they were like, who says this stuff?
00:25:46
Speaker
And I'm like, listen, just read the script and you can go home for the day. You can see your family once you've read this out. Imagine me like Alec Guinness reading Star Wars, he's like, what is this nonsense? It reminds me of, and this is such a sad image to conjure in the Pandalurians' minds, but do you remember when Ian McKellen got upset in The Hobbit? Mm-hmm, and he cried because he was in a room by himself, like a CGI room. Yeah, I'm just imagining a similar thing, but it's Ryan Reynolds beside a bust of Pikachu.
00:26:13
Speaker
He's like, is this what my career's become? But see, in all seriousness, despite, although I'm kind of poking fun a wee bit, but see as a Pokemon fan taking off the analytical goggles here, how did you you feel about this film? As a Pokemon fan, was this everything you wanted to see in a Pokemon film? I wouldn't say necessarily all I wanted to see, but it certainly scratched that itch of what I like to have seen a movie. There was lots of moments where I was smiling while watching the film, with like, oh, look what character that is, look what they're making that character do. you Like we were talking earlier about, they're making the Machamp direct traffic, because the Snorlax sleeping in the street, and when they had Cubone very early crying and then running and fighting them, and they had the Loudrids like beatboxing and that kind of thing. like That was all very, very fun. I like to see how they utilized Pokemon in a real world setting. Within the games and the anime, you are getting a very, pardon the pun, but two dimensional view of this world. Whereas this is kind of fleshing out how society would actually feel and what Pokemon's roles within society would be. So it was certainly doing a lot for me that I would have hoped to have seen. There was certainly some moments where where you're kind of like, oh, I wish I hadn't seen that of thing, like the lick of tongue, slowly licking Justice Smith's face and the face of Mr. Mime and that kind of thing. But otherwise, i did feel like they covered what I would have liked to have seen of this world. Yeah, because as you were saying, what I appreciated was the fact that a lot of these Pokemon, obviously they're all different and there's a wide variety of them.
Film's Atmosphere and Global Filming Locations
00:27:44
Speaker
I think as of recording this episode, there's over 900, I want to say, Pokemon. But at the time of this film, it would probably have been a couple of hundred less. 1,025. 1,000? Oh my God, that's too many. That's too many for this Gen 1-er today.
00:28:01
Speaker
member. That's if you remove the advanced evolutions and whatnot. Ah, right, okay. If you include those, they're at 1,164. Oh my god, that's horrific. Gen 10 coming out this year? Nah, looking. Yeah, what I appreciated was the fact that you could tell that this city was lived in with the Pokemon, that they interacted with the particular things, like as you were saying with the Machamp, and you mentioned that at the beginning of the film when Tim comes in on the bullet train, you can see that there's a want to say it's a bravery swoops down and gives someone a bag. At first, I'm not going to lie, when I rewatched it, I thought it was bravery giving the person a handbag. And I was like, oh, that's nice. He's still delivering a handbag to that poor woman. It's a mugging. Yeah, no, I was going to say, it put it in reverse. And I was like, what?
00:28:47
Speaker
ah is going on here but I also loved a lot of the references in it like at the side of the building it had the word oak on it and the cafe it had the picture of Noctowl who is just a giant owl Pokemon obviously Night Owl ha ha ha there was a lot of wee easter eggy things that you were constantly looking for and honestly it was almost a feast for the eyes at times where you were like oh my god I recognise this, I recognise that, recognise that reference. It did feel as if it was a film that was made for the fans at times. Obviously not always but for the most part I genuinely think they absolutely nailed it and you know with the music score as well there was kind of that, I don't want to say 8 bit because I don't think that's really the right term but you know that kind of synth music when it was like the pokemon battles and things it was very reminiscent i certainly appreciate the homages and the references to music from the original games and the original show that was a nice touch i felt because even and think it's the first scene that you've introduced to bill nye and his son when they're making the broadcast they have a riff of see the english pokemon intro yes
00:29:58
Speaker
which I thought was really cool. I hadn't picked up on that the first time, or rather I'd just forgotten. But there's the obvious one later where Ryan Reynolds is crying and he's going, Pokemon, gotta catch them all. And I thought that was amazing. I was laughing in the cinema for that one. But yeah, there's so much of that that it almost doesn't matter. You've even got red from the games at the very beginning when they're watching the Pokemon battle. Okay, you think that was red? Because I was trying to decide if that was supposed to be red or if it was just a dude in a red cap. Well, as the kids say nowadays, it was very red-coded.
00:30:31
Speaker
you know You had the heart, you had the Jagger. I think it was supposed to be. yeah You could probably interpret it as a different character, but think maybe it was. But still thought, either way, that was a really, really nice touch. I also liked how, although you didn't see all the Pokemon, there was definitely some fleeting ones. I sent you a picture of Bill Nye just stealing myself. I eat some toadodiles and I just put 10 out 10.
00:30:55
Speaker
Perfect film. Just Bill Nye with a couple of toadodiles living in the moment. I also love the Bulbasaur scene as well because I'm a huge Bulbasaur fan. Bulbasaur was one of the best rendered Pokemon I felt of there. His head looked just like, eyes look just like toothless actually from Hanatunia Dragon. So it was an interesting kind of thing because he looked more like a dragon from a dragon movie than Charizard did. Also fun fact,
00:31:18
Speaker
Apparently, you know the scene where they're trying to heal Pikachu after he falls off the Torterra, which I'll touch on in a second, but they're going through the woods. Apparently that was filmed in Scotland, would you believe? I did notice the filming locations were like Colorado, England and Scotland. So that is very interesting. because my partner keeps saying you want to go to the forest where they film detective pikachu and i'm like you know what i think dry day let's just pack up the car go see it haven't had a chance to go see it yet but i would love to just famous last selfie i'm in the detective pikachu forest but touching on my other favorite grass pokemon torterra see that entire scene genuinely that was just absolute fan service i loved it when the torterras rise from the ground and I did struggle to suspend my disbelief that no one had noticed what looked to be like seven mountain-sized Pokemon. You'd be able to see that from a far distance.
00:32:10
Speaker
Have they kept that under wraps? Counterpoint, how did War Maria fall when the attack on Titan, Tandra? A Titan kicked it. Yeah, exactly. They didn't see that coming either, did they? I apologise for any...
00:32:22
Speaker
Attack on Titan fans listening. I apologise for any citizens that were held in the walls of Old Maria. That's next week's episode. But yeah, that was definitely a rule of cool moment. You know, on the one hand you think, okay, that's a bit impractical, but on the other hand, the inner child in me was just like, I don't care, we've got a giant Torterra. Well, sorry, Torterras. Torterrai.
00:32:41
Speaker
I've got massive Torterras just stomping in the landscape and to me that looked really really good. That was something out of Shadow of the Colossus or as we said Attack on Titan. It was really well done. I love that whole sequence. One Pokemon I have to say I was a little bit let down with was Mewtwo. I don't know how you feel about this.
00:33:02
Speaker
Yeah, I felt like they went from more computer generated. It looked more like what we'd referenced earlier about that Mewtwo Strikes Back CGI movie that came out the same year. It looked more akin to that than any the other kind of more live action looking Pokemon. I'm not quite sure why that was that maybe that they put the same kind of generation into that one and it just didn't translate as well. Or maybe they tried attempts to make Mewtwo look more realistic. and it was just kind of creepy looking, so they abandoned that because Mewtwo's supposed to be kind of like big psychic cat man thing, isn't he? Yeah, well, he's cloned off of Mew, so he should technically be a psychic cat. Yeah, but they made him quite rubbery looking, kind of scaly. I don't know what material, but there was no fur on him. It was almost like Is it a sphinx cat? You know, the cats that don't have any fur at all? It was kind of like that. It was like Beerus...
00:33:57
Speaker
I was going to say, it was like various. Yeah, it was kind of off-putting. Mewtwo, I have to say, is one of my favourite legendaries, so I don't know how they would translated it. I thought he looked good in some bits, but overall I was kind of like, eh, it's okay. Yeah, that's the only other one, I think.
00:34:13
Speaker
that maybe looked a bit strange. Also, speaking of looks and the Easter eggs of this film, did you also notice the film that Tim was watching when he went into his dad's apartment? No, what was it? It was, I want to say, Angels with Dirty Souls, the Home Alone one. The one Kevin McAllister has recorded to play when the robbers come in. Yeah, that's the one. It's really strange. I mean, it's a cool touch, but the Venn diagram of Pokemon fans and hardcore Home Alone fans of that particular scene i was like do they overlap maybe more research is needed on this but that was kind of a you know you looked and you're like oh that's interesting there was also a seinfeld reference as well it's when they're in the back of the car and it's a very similar thing that happens in the show where one of the characters is yelling serenity now because he wants to calm down but he's just about to blow his lid at any moment and that's what pikachu says to psyduck which i have to admit find that pretty Pretty funny. Touching again on some of things we've already discussed of the design and mannerisms that they did for Pikachu were so adorable.
00:35:17
Speaker
At some point, myself and my wife, when we were watching it yesterday, were just like, oh my God, he's so cute. If any Pokemon could be brought into the real world, I think it would have to be Pikachu just because he is the ultimate mascot for that franchise. He is so adorable. You can very much imagine giving them a little hug and then he charges your phone for you.
00:35:36
Speaker
but Yes, that's enough hugs. Now charge my phone. Come on. I've lived up my side of the bargain, Pikachu. No, I'm totally with you there. I feel as if, and again, going back to what we were saying, there are a lot of varying designs, but Pikachu was the one that they absolutely, they hit it out of the park with. And honestly, save for the humour in this film, I felt for the most part, it was Pikachu doing the heavy lifting in this film. A lot of the jokes that obviously are tailored to Ryan Reynolds and his sensibilities and whatnot, but I felt as if he did a really good job of that, as well as looking keen. cute while doing it. I think that was the point of it, the contrast of him looking cute and then also saying things like get me the hell out of here when he's about to get eaten by a Charizard and everything. You're like, oh dear. Yeah, it's a pretty fun scene, the whole battle thing. And you had him kicking a Magikarp. I mean, I did love the idea that there's an underground Pokemon ring going on there, but it also brought up a very, very interesting question that Adam and I actually asked in our Living in the Pokemon World episodes where we were talking about, o that surely you would have to have insurance people. And then at the very beginning, we find out that Tim himself is a junior whatever working at an insurance firm. I think Like I said this at the time, and I'll say it again now, that would honestly, maybe it's just me being old, but that would be a fascinating thing to see, even if it was genuinely just a documentary kind of thing, like the office style. You know, it's like, oh, ah someone kicked a Voltorb into my living room. Well, you didn't have Pokemon proof glass, so I'm sorry, don't care if you're 82 years old, but you can't replace your
Humor Analysis and Live-Action Pokemon Universe
00:37:12
Speaker
windows. the next film, Pokemon Insurance Adjustment. What were your thoughts on the comedy in general in the movie? Did you find that most of the jokes kind of landed for you or did you feel that there were quite a lot of duds in there? I felt it varied to be honest.
00:37:25
Speaker
As I said, I definitely think Ryan Reynolds was just the star of the show. almost to the extent that see at the very end when spoilers but when we find out that ryan reynolds was inside pikachu the entire time like some kind of jim henson abomination and they ends up splitting and you get pikachu still with the cute hat but then you've got ryan reynolds standing beside him and what i loved about that was they didn't even try to pokefy him it was just ryan reynolds on his own clothes He was just standing there like, yep, I'm Ryan Reynolds in Pokemon. A bit like Chris Pratt, but that's another argument. But yeah, I thought for the most part, there was a couple, you know, that were hit or miss. I thought Ditto was quite funny at times, transforming into Lucy and then transforming into the Cubone, which I have to admit and got a chuckle out of me when he's trying to hit his hands to make him fall. I was like, okay, that's cruel, but that is actually hilarious. Yeah. It certainly presented Ditto as a much more formidable threat than Ditto really is in the games, because this Ditto didn't require the Pokemon that was transforming into to be like right there. it could just transform into whatever at any given time. Like you got kicked out the window one point and then came up as a bravery. Yeah, there was a line, I think, after they threw out the window that they say something like, oh, it was genetically augmented. And it's like, oh, okay, okay. That's why it can transform into everything. But I did think it was cool, though. Yeah, it being people and, like, the eyes. That was really creepy. It was very Coraline, wasn't it? Yeah, guess a little bit in that way. Just little black dots of eyes. It's weird because when you see the plushies of it, you're like, oh, how cute. But if you think about it in real life, you'd be like, oh my God, that's really freaky.
00:39:04
Speaker
but Get that ditto out of here. Honestly, i think the humour for the most part pretty much landed. But what about yourself though? What did you think? Yeah, I think there was a lot of moments that really worked quite well.
00:39:14
Speaker
I did feel like they were really playing at the Ryan Reynolds-ness with a lot of it. It was very Deadpool. pool in how they were kind of playing Pikachu. Like there was a scene where they were in the underground Pokemon fighting ring and they saw the bad guy, DJ dude, whose torso was exposed.
00:39:28
Speaker
Ran around Pikachu was kind of commenting on the fact that this guy didn't have a shirt on. It felt very obvious and it didn't really work for me. I felt it was a bit kind of a lame bit of dialogue. but For the most part, I thought it landed pretty well. There was one scene where Catherine Newton, who we've not really touched on much.
00:39:43
Speaker
Catherine Newton's Lucy was talking to her boss, who's the son of the bad guy. And he made such a scathing comment about her outfit. And I was like, damn, that was so unnecessary.
00:39:54
Speaker
I have to admit it was terrible, but it's when Bill Nye's in the chair and he turns around and he's like, oh, turn your back to me, why don't you? And I know they're obviously building that up as a red herring, but i was just like, that is so over the top.
00:40:07
Speaker
But at the same time, I was like... That is actually hilarious. Chris Gere, the name of the actor, I feel as if he played up the campiness of it and he slotted into this world really well. i have to say, I think Catherine Newton and Justice Smith, they did slip into it quite well as well. But then you've got other ones like Bill Nye and Ken Wontanabe who, they're very serious actors. So to see them in a Pokemon film, you know, I don't think they did a bad job by any means, not at all. But you know that way, you're just like, okay, I'm I don't feel Ken Watanabe played the role right.
00:40:41
Speaker
You either have to go deadpan like you were in the most serious movie, like Michael Caine in Muppets Christmas Carol, or you play up the campiness like Tim Curry in Muppets Treasure Island. You can't half-arse it. I think that's what I kind of took issue with in Ken Watanabe's performance. I didn't really feel he was trying. And he wasn't in it enough for me to fully say that that took me out of a movie or anything like that. But I was kind of like, oh, Ken Watanabe's in this and he doesn't seem to really care. He's just here for a paycheck. Yeah, there was a couple of actors where you kind of thought, yeah, is that's a performance. And again, it's like these actors are distinguished. They've been in great things and whatnot.
00:41:17
Speaker
But there were a couple where it was like, I feel as if there was that kind of middling awkwardness of it because it's a Pokemon film and it's the first awkwardness. of this particular series. Kind of as a closing point, that's my thoughts about the film as a whole, that while there are some really campy bits that I enjoyed, and enjoyed the references and things, I honestly didn't mind that as much as I probably did with the Super Mario Brothers film that came out about four years later. But although there was the references and the kind of clunky dialogue at times, I felt as if this was the perfect stepping stone film for a live action universe for Pokemon. If they were going to continue it, then they'd had this world that they had built up and they were definitely linking it to the games as well because think Rhyme City is in the Detective Pikachu games but you know there was references to Sinnoh and Kanto and things
00:42:12
Speaker
but There was a lot of references there that you thought, okay, you can build on this and you can really flesh it out. I'm just surprised that we haven't got a sequel yet to this film. And again, I know Pokemon, that billion dollar company, they are very busy, you know, with Pokemon Concierge, all of their collaborations with Lego and whatnot. They've got the games, they've got the plushies to sell, the trading card game. So maybe having a sequel to Detective Pikachu isn't on the cards.
00:42:40
Speaker
But I think that's a real, real shame because for all the faults, as I said, I wonder what they would do with a sequel because obviously if they had Ryan Reynolds and the Pikachu again, i think that would be quite lazy. It wouldn't really make sense given yeah what happened at the end of the movie to do that. So I don't think that they really can do that again. My guess, as as I was saying earlier with the fact that I think it's going to be kind like it's not called Pokemon colon detect a Pikachu, but I think that's going to be how it's treated. Yeah. But this is the launch pad for just other Pokemon stories within this world. Yeah. We might get a cameo from Justice Smith's character or from Ryan Reynolds something like that. But for the most part, I think it'll probably be its own kind of independent story. My guess as well is that they probably were intending to capitalize on this with a sequel sooner, but the pandemic probably slowed things down. Yeah. And I know now we're a couple of years out of, i mean, it's still out there, but we're for the most part out of it for the last couple of years. But it might have pushed things around a little bit more. So it might be further off from it. And there was also writer's strikes and all that kind of stuff. So that might have also contributed to the delay. But there is always concern for me with these kind of franchises when they take too long to capitalize and to get a sequel out that interest is kind of lost.
00:43:54
Speaker
There's been a few lately that I was like, why have you waited this long to either make a movie about this property that was a hot interest at the time, or the sequel to a movie that was successful but has now taken so long that it's kind of left the zeitgeist?
00:44:08
Speaker
Well, you say that, but Happy Gilmore 2 is being released soon, so... I sound corrected. Which is such a disgusting thing I've just said, I apologise. Comparing Happy Gilmore to Detective Pikachu, another weird animation film. It's a Geodude in a hard place, doesn't it? See what did there? ah Uh-huh. Where, on the one hand, Pokemon's like massive, and I don't think anyone would begrudge them if they decided we're going to make a s sequel about the Detective Pikachu franchise, or oh, we're going to do a spin-off and whatnot. But as you said, it's been about six years, and I can't believe I'm saying that, it's been six years since this film came out. I mean, is it too late to make a film? Probably logistically, obviously not. Maybe they'll have better effects, they'll definitely be able to flesh out the lore a bit more and everything now that they've got the fundamentals kind of laid out. But honestly, I guess we'll just see. We'll have to see where Pokemon are going with this, whether they are going to follow up with a live action film again, or Yeah, they're just going to leave as, a wow, that was a successful thing, and then never touch it again. It's going to be a weird one. Yeah, I mean, it's such a lucrative property that I can't see them not capitalising on it at some point. With the way that Hollywood and studios have been, lately is every chance that studio that was going to make it got bought out by someone else who no longer had interest in it or something like that. There's so much weird stuff happening and as you say, when this if episode comes out, it'll have been pretty six years to the day that it came out. So it does make it a lot more difficult and that you've now got, if you were to try and bring back in Justice Smith,
00:45:41
Speaker
that someone who was at the time probably his early 20s is now closer to 30. And so you can't really have that young character, if you were, to kind of make it more about him again.
00:45:52
Speaker
So I think that that is another reason why I can't see them going back to that well. I mean, can you imagine if they made a sequel when they put Justice Smith and the Pikachu? This poor Pikachu's Freaky Friday situation is getting bit out of hand. Freaky Saturday, more like that.
00:46:07
Speaker
Hopefully they don't do that if they do make a sequel but I genuinely think that this is by far, although it's got flaws and the kind of nitpicks at them, this is probably one of the better video game film adaptations and I'm not saying that facetiously as a joke like oh it's such a low bar. I genuinely think this is an excellent attempt at Not only, as we said before, blending CG with real life and trying to bring Pokemon into the real world, but also just a great Pokemon adaptation because the people who made this, they clearly loved the franchise. There was a lot of Easter eggs and things. There was a lot of, genuinely, if you're a Pokemon fan, you will be scouring the back. background for different references and oh look it's this Pokemon on the wall or oh they're referring to Professor Oak and this and that is honestly just absolutely incredible for what it achieved and especially back in 2019 which I know was only six years ago it's not relatively that long ago but at the same time for video game films to now be on the up and up and i feel as if that was one of the films that definitely changed the discourse around it because you had that and then you had the sonic film now you've got the mario film you've got a lot of video game films that are just coming out now that are fantastic like that make you forget about all the terrible ones like the hitman film the prince of persia oh Oh, God, yeah. That was something I was going to, or rather that I wanting to bring up at some point in this, that we are now in kind of an age where there has been a lot of hits for video game adaptations, both in a TV show capacity, in a movie capacity, live action, animation. They're doing these properties a lot better than they had been previously, that they've both the technology has kind of caught up to be able to do it. And also, kind of I feel lessons have been learned about
00:47:57
Speaker
what not to do as well as what to do. That still hasn't been learned by Sam in terms of redesigns and whatnot. Cough, cough, Shrek. But that's a competition for a different day because that's not... That's for Shrek month. Shrekuary. Shrekuary.
00:48:10
Speaker
I'm half joking. 2026 isn't that far away. When did the first one come out? 2001? Something like that. Do you know, I'm pretty sure it came out the same time as the Philosopher's Stone. Reason being that I remember one Christmas, because I had the video for the Philosopher's Stone and Shrek. It's a really weird memory combo there, but yeah, it definitely had to be a around that. So it'll be 25 years next year, so we have to do a Shrekuary. And I saw that list, I am indeed a believer. But no, you're totally right there. i do agree with you. I genuinely think that there is definitely scope for more reimaginings and kind of honing in the way that they're going to present. these types of stories in the future. i doubt it'll be exactly the same because a lot has changed over the years but that's only a good thing though because you get more creative visions and creative people coming into these projects that they want to show off their almost vision as it were of Pokemon whether they're a fan or just getting paid for the job either way as long as it's not uvable then
00:49:13
Speaker
in Absolutely. Between that and Quentin Tarantino, don't let them touch Pokemon with a barge pole. I would be fascinated to see Quentin Tarantino take on a Pokemon move. I don't know if I even want to see what he would come up on. There's going to be so much blood and gore, so many feet...
00:49:28
Speaker
Every character is replaced by Hitmonlee. Would you believe that's the second most horrible thing I've said in a Pokemon episode, the first involving audishes? But on that note, Andrew, thank you so much for coming on to this episode, reminiscing about Pokemon, but also reminiscing about this wonderful film. No, thank you so much for having me. It's been long time coming that I finally got to talk about a Pokemon property, and I'm glad I got to talk about a film that was very interesting to me back in 2019 and even today.
Community Engagement and Creator Projects
00:49:56
Speaker
And of course, before we wrap up, where can these amazing Pandalodians find your content. The Pandalurians can find me in other fantastic episodes of Chatsunami. I've done lots of other themed months with Satsu and lots of other kind of individual episodes as well. If you enjoyed this, then you might also enjoy some of our anime discussions that we've had with Chatsunami and also even this month.
00:50:19
Speaker
So I think it'll be next week now that we'll be talking about the anime film Your Name. So please do watch out for that. You can also check both myself and Satsu, and also you'll have heard him this month for Animation, Martin McAllister, as well as Rob Altoster on Stop, Drop and Roll Initiative, a Dungeons & Dragons podcast that we also do. That can be found at SDIpod on Twitter as well. And I'm at Greenshield95 Twitter. And if you would like to find more episodes from ourselves about Animation Month, as well as all of our previous theme months and Pokemon content, of course, then you can check us out on our website, Chatsanami.com, as well as all good podcast apps. I want to thank our amazing Pandalorian patrons, Robotic Battletoaster, Sonya, Ghostie, and Cryptic1991. Thank you so, so much for supporting the show. But if you would like access to exclusive... exclusive episodes, early access, commentary tracks, and our true thoughts about Detective Pikachu 2, for legal reasons that last one is a joke, then you can indeed check us out at our Patreon page, patreon.com forward slash chat tsunami. This podcast is of course a member of the Podpack Collective. For more information, check us out on Twitter slash x at podpackcollect.
00:51:26
Speaker
I also want to point out as well that if you would like to see us live, then you can check us out every so often on our Twitch page, twitch.tv forward slash Chatsunami, where I have actually been getting into the groove again with live streaming some episodes. We have already had our first episode of Chatsu Cafe that has come out featuring myself and the fantastic Martin McAllister. Hope to get more guests on for that is absolutely fantastic. But yep, that is twitch.tv forward slash Chatsunami. at Tsunami.
00:51:55
Speaker
But until next time, thank you all so so much for listening to this episode of Animation Month. Stay safe, stay awesome, and most importantly... Hold on to that master bullet, you don't know when you're going need it. I was going to say stay hydrated, but that's even better. Use water again.