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Evil Personified: Jim Sullivan
63 Plays5 months ago
A neuvo rich man marries a beautiful, well-mannered woman in Atlanta and tries to use her to break into old moneu Palm Beach but it doesn't work. He cheats on her and after ten years of loyalty to him, she tries to divorce him. See how the mind of a killer works to keep his money and pursue his place at the top of society.
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Transcript
Introduction to Hearth Home and Homicide
00:00:01
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Hello listeners. I'm Bridget.
00:00:04
Caroline
And I'm Caroline.
00:00:06
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
You are listening to Hearth Home and Homicide, a family production about family murders. Caroline and I narrate each story and Andy is our producer.
00:00:17
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
As Caroline and I talk about each family murderer, we're not only keen on watching Justice Sunfold for the killer, whatever that may look like, but we also want to be sensitive to the victim's family, you know, family murders have a ripple effect that never ends.
Case Overview: Jim Sullivan and Lita MacClinton
00:00:37
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So Caroline today, we're going to be talking about um Jim Sullivan. And in fact, I've named this episode, Evil Personified. That's what I think about Jim Sullivan. But it's an interesting case. I was drawn to it mostly because of the victim and
00:00:57
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
mostly because of some of the complications, but also because I know this part of the country. I was born and raised in the South by parents who were not from the South, so it was weird.
00:01:11
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And I had all these observation antenna antenna up all the time. We're going to be traveling to Alabama, Florida, and Atlanta, Georgia.
00:01:24
Caroline
Ooh.
00:01:24
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So If ever we told a story of good versus evil, this is it. And, you know, Caroline, you know me and a lot of our listeners know me and you know that I don't like to use the word evil because of their religious connotation. But I really have no other word for this man. No other word. I'm talking about Jim Sullivan, who murdered his wife, Lita MacClinton. He is soon to be ex-wife at the time of the murder.
00:01:57
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Jim orchestrated a murder for hire for reasons related to money, also social standing, and a form of perceived decency and belonging that he thought could only be brought with tons of money. And maybe he's right. I don't know.
00:02:15
Caroline
Yeah, but it'd all be fake anyway.
00:02:15
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
um
00:02:16
Caroline
I mean, there' that's the thing, like, I really do believe that adage of like, money can't buy happiness, right?
Can Money Buy Happiness?
00:02:24
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Right.
00:02:24
Caroline
But money is very much applyable, like, thing to get access to all the things you want, right? to Obviously, it isn't the end, I'll be all
00:02:33
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
It's probably a lot more fun than pinch and penny. It's a lot more fun.
00:02:37
Caroline
Yeah, a lot more fun, not as much skill building involved in having just over amounts of money, but there's access. You get access that other people have to work really hard for. So I could see why that's a goal for people.
00:02:47
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Yeah, sadly, and sad, sad, sad, sad that in this in this culture sometimes you don't get access to medical care. You don't get access to proper upper education and you don't get access to justice without money.
00:03:08
Caroline
Correct. That's the big one.
00:03:10
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So we can't pretend that it it it is it the root of love of money is the root of all evil, but is money and the root of all evil?
00:03:21
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I don't know. We're going to see.
00:03:22
Caroline
Yeah.
00:03:24
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Let's just pretend like Jim Sullivan's name is Money Sullivan.
00:03:28
Caroline
ah Make a little ear.
00:03:29
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And then I'll readily agree that, you know, money is the root of all evil.
00:03:33
Caroline
Yeah.
Lita MacClinton's Background and Challenges
00:03:34
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
But first I want to talk about somebody I really like. I never met her. Her name is Leda McClinton. And I want to um start by telling our listeners a few things about her.
00:03:46
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Leda was raised by a very well educated and highly respected Atlanta, Georgia parents. Much was expected of her. She was born in a time of the 1960s and raised in the sixties and seventies a time that had two separate upper echelons of society in Atlanta. There were white citizens at the top and another similar top level of black leaders in Atlanta. And the McClintons were African Americans. There were a highly respected upper level economically
00:04:29
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
um part of society while the white citizens were having their cotillions, these upper echelon blacks were having their cotillions and they had their processes for grooming their children to have refined manners, um with high education,
00:04:57
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
um very high service orientation, and so forth and so on. So for both sides, be it white or be it black, there was a code of this dignified conduct and manners. There was wealth, cotillions, private schools, and so forth. No dirty laundry is ever allowed, aired in public by my own observations of growing up just south of Atlanta in Columbus, Georgia. If you're going to have a fight with somebody in your house, everybody's got to close the windows first.
00:05:33
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
so you know
00:05:35
Caroline
There's an element of manners in there you're doing it for the comfort of your neighbor Yeah
00:05:38
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
your It's matters. It doesn't really matter what is going on behind closed doors or happening in your closet. What matters is the appearance of refinement.
00:05:54
Caroline
Yeah, and that i I do. I too was not raised in Georgia. I went there for a very little blip when I was nine. So you're talking barely into the 90s.
00:06:06
Caroline
If that it was probably the 80s.
00:06:07
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Mm hmm.
00:06:08
Caroline
But um yeah, it was still like that very much separate. I won't put the other half of that sentence in there. because I mean, it just that you did get a sense of separation and then I recently saw a few years back in it Alabama they'd still do that separate cotillion separate experiences for the upper echelons based on race. I was a little bit shocked by that because I didn't really realize that that was still such a prevalent undertone within the structure of the society at least from what i have seen i'm sure it's evolved into something totally different today but just what an interesting set of eggshells to walk along
00:06:43
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
a
00:06:49
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Well, yeah, my parents were not from the South and they were both civil libertarians and they did a lot of things that got them in trouble because of their ah orientation toward equality, ah be it you know, between people of different races, people of different economic backgrounds.
00:07:10
Caroline
Right.
00:07:10
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And, you know, that was that was very difficult, especially on my mother, who was, you know, she was even more of a leader than my father was in that regard. But anyway, back to Leda, her parents were leaders in the black community.
00:07:25
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Emory and Joanne McLintan were respected and admired as part of this elite black community. His father, or pardon me, her father was a successful businessman and her mother was a political and community leader. The father also held board appointments to many high-end government ah agencies as well as private concerns. So they were very active. They were very well regarded. Their daughter had the best education, the best manners,
00:08:01
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And on top of all of that, she was very refined and very beautiful. She had many suitors who would like a whole lot to be her husband. But Leda made an unusual choice and it would cost her her life. So let's talk about her killer, the man Leda married.
Jim Sullivan's Rise to Wealth
00:08:22
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And I'm going to give a trigger warning here. If you ever have been tormented by a selfish two-faced monster, you might want to just not continue because that's what's going to happen. And um who is Jim Sullivan? Jim Sullivan was born in 1941 on the way, way wrong side of the tracks in Hardinox Southside, Boston. 1941 in South Boston was a very rough, impoverished and survival
00:08:59
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
situation for anybody who lived there. Jim was looking for a way out and he was looking for an economic advantage. He was economically greatly disadvantaged living there. He had a very high opinion of himself. This is the first time that I started to think about how maybe you can be born into abject poverty and nothing but violence and sadness and loss around you, and you can still think highly of yourself.
00:09:34
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So maybe there's part of that that you might be born with.
00:09:34
Caroline
Yeah.
00:09:37
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
It might be genetic. I don't know.
00:09:39
Caroline
yeah
00:09:40
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
He he had this high opinion of himself, even while living under the scrap conditions of his life thus far. His fortunes turned, though.
00:09:52
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
when an uncle living in Macon, Georgia, where I have been many times, needed someone to work in his liquor distribution company. I can tell you another thing about the South.
00:10:05
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Liquor distribution companies do very well in the South, just as well as they do in any other region of the United States.
00:10:11
Caroline
We love liquor.
00:10:16
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Oh, yeah. So this uncle whose name was Frank was unmarried no children, and he was getting on in years and falling behind in his health. Jim Sullivan told Uncle Frank that there was only one way he would come all the way to Macon, Georgia and work for him because Frank had reached out and asked that he do that. And Jim said, you know, I'm okay. You know, I'll come learn the business and help you carry that business
00:10:47
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
But the I have a condition, and that is that I need to be the sole beneficiary of your estate, including the business, upon your death. And you know I don't think that that is too far out there. You and I, Caroline, had a conversation about this before our episode began.
00:11:07
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
that a you know This is an old, old man.
00:11:12
Caroline
Yeah. And it seems that's it.
00:11:13
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
You're going to come and work for him and then what? Somebody's going to buy that business? and
00:11:17
Caroline
Yeah. It's not abnormal to me that if you're a young scrappy person looking to set out that you, I mean, it's honestly really good forethought for him to think about himself like that in the future.
00:11:29
Caroline
Because if I'm like 20 something, I got a uncle who's got a gig for me. I'm just going. I don't ask questions because I'm young. I need to pay my dues, right? That was always my mentality.
00:11:40
Caroline
So I probably got exploited a lot. But it's wise and appropriate for Jim in this circumstance to say, all right, I see what you got for me. But yeah, what if I come out there and work a bunch and then you just ride out from under me, you die and somebody else moves in. I need assurances to a future out there. And that that seems really ah like a wise choice.
00:12:01
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I think so. And don't forget Jim Sullivan has a very high opinion of himself.
00:12:06
Caroline
Yeah.
00:12:06
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And he had a very high opinion of himself, even when he was probably getting beat up in the streets of South Boston.
00:12:12
Caroline
Yeah. Yeah. Also a very ah enviable trait. I mean, you know, you hear about Bostonians anyway, the strength, you know, but at the same time, just this because you're right.
00:12:19
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
um Yeah.
00:12:26
Caroline
I think a lot of really great, at least great American success stories do often have this element of someone who started out with what would seemingly be a very bad hand that would get you nowhere.
00:12:39
Caroline
and they wow you know through really thinking nah this isn't for me i know i'm destined for something better they really do rise to something quite great so i mean that's not a it's not a bad thing
00:12:50
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Yeah, and you know, it doesn't even have to be great. I mean, I remember when I met your dad and this was back in 1974, when I met him and he had gotten out of the Air Force and I asked him, why did you get it out of the Air Force? And he said, because I didn't know what was out there for me, but I knew that this was not the only thing. So even if you're not trying to crawl up to the top of the stratosphere of society, there is something in most people that are going, you know, I don't know, I'm going to jump out of this tree and assume that there's going to be a tree limb beneath me that I can start swinging off.
00:13:28
Caroline
Yeah. Right.
00:13:32
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
You know, just this idea of not being stuck.
00:13:36
Caroline
Yeah. That you can take these leaps of faith for yourself.
00:13:40
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
That's right.
00:13:40
Caroline
Yeah.
00:13:41
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So Jim Sullivan learned this business very quickly. So he was smart and he did work very hard for his uncle and he became very good at the liquor distribution business. He got along with all the clients and he knew the routes and he knew everything there was about this business. And then Jim had an explosion of extra good luck after just the first year in Lincoln. His uncle Frank died of natural causes a year after Jim arrived and started working
00:14:14
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And yes, listeners, I was suspicious too, and so was Caroline.
00:14:19
Caroline
Yes, sounds like a little too lucky.
00:14:22
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
But it was real. he He really did die. And after all, that was the whole reason that he went and got Jim, is that he was he was probably sensing that his his days were numbered.
00:14:29
Caroline
yeah yeah
00:14:34
Caroline
Wow.
00:14:36
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So Jim kept the business going, and then he sold it eventually for $5 million. dollars Now, $5 million dollars in 1974, 1975, that was like, you know, $500 trillion today.
00:14:45
Caroline
wow
00:14:55
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I mean, I don't know what it's worth, but it's it's it's a lot of money today.
00:14:59
Caroline
It's a lot.
Marriage Dynamics: Lita and Jim
00:15:01
Caroline
Yep.
00:15:02
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And it's probably, you're going to want to put at least a zero on there and say it's $50 million today.
00:15:06
Caroline
Yes.
00:15:08
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And I think it's probably $100 million.
00:15:10
Caroline
I do too. It's a lot. Five million dollars is still a very much a lot of money.
00:15:14
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
that Listen, you know i I can't tell you how much money I think of is a lot. It's very little compared to what people think is a lot.
00:15:26
Caroline
Me too. And let me tell you how explosion, like my brain exploded when I realized how much Bill Gates would have if he was left with one percent of his entire wealth. I thought, wow, maybe I am. Maybe I do have an appetite for the rich. No, I'm just kidding. But yeah, I definitely think of much smaller amounts as being just fine.
00:15:49
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, let's let's just disclose to our listeners that we both of us are actually living on for a lesson.
00:16:00
Caroline
Yes.
00:16:00
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Maybe the number five is in there, but that's where the that's where it ends.
00:16:05
Caroline
yeah
00:16:06
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
After his uncle died and he inherited everything, James Vincent, also known as Jim Sullivan, James Vincent Sullivan, also known as Jim.
00:16:17
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
was a renowned millionaire living in Macon, Georgia. And he happened to be in Atlanta one day and he crossed paths with Lita MacClinton in an Atlanta mall where she worked in a very upscale boutique boutique in 1975. They began dating and eventually fell in love and got married.
00:16:45
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Jim Sullivan was handsome handsome and charming and Lita loved Jim. Now Lita's parents did not love Jim. Jim was um full of himself and he was sort of had an arrogant air about him. He was white, although they didn't really object to that, but they did worry that their daughter would suffer.
00:17:15
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
ah as his wife because he she was black and he was white and he was the one with all the money.
00:17:23
Caroline
Yeah, that would scare the bejesus out of me. Even if she they were the same race, it's a precarious situation when you're only The only things you've gone off of are economic situation, the physical looks, and the charm.
00:17:40
Caroline
That charm, so dangerous, so dangerous. like I think if that's all you know, don't make a decision about it because charm can be so dangerous in that way.
00:17:51
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Well, yeah, I mean, you can't convince somebody.
00:17:52
Caroline
The devil is quite charming, right?
00:17:55
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Look at Ted Bundy.
00:17:57
Caroline
Right. I mean, many, many people are charming that you would never want in your sphere. Right. So I just think I don't blame her parents for having the absolute normal.
00:18:04
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Right.
00:18:07
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
No, they weren't in love with Jim. She was the one that was in love with Jim.
00:18:09
Caroline
Yeah. And honestly, in the 70s, I could see them factoring in race as a serious thing here in this part of the country. They have to think about that. She's not always safe in every place she goes and not just because of her relationship with Jim, right? She just, this is just the reality of.
00:18:27
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Well, I know one thing in Macon, Georgia that could get you killed.
00:18:31
Caroline
That's what I'm saying. So I think it's really, really founded.
00:18:33
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Really, I think anyway, I shouldn't, I shouldn't single out Macon for having a race based ideology around who should be with whom.
00:18:37
Caroline
No.
00:18:46
Caroline
No, but I think it's an important factor is that you were raised in this ah part of the country, similar timeframe. And I think you can recall in grocery stores, they would sell inappropriate postcards, which would tell you exactly what you needed to know about the race situation at that time.
00:19:04
Caroline
I mean, it just, it's the hotbed of history that's hard around racial ah equality, racial relationship.
00:19:11
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And some of it is still going on. So Lita moved to Macon to be with her new rich husband whom she really loved. I mean, she her heart was in it. She loved him and she helped him renew his image.
00:19:27
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And when they met, he had two pair of polyester pants, one green and one red. So he didn't know how to dress and he had some mannerisms that she wanted to coach him about.
00:19:33
Caroline
Ooh.
00:19:40
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Leader took him by the hand and before too long he looked like the dapper man he always sought out to be. So he fell right into knowing how to dress.
00:19:52
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
He had never had any inkling how to dress.
00:19:55
Caroline
Yeah.
00:19:56
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Knowing how to carry himself where his arrogance would be masked by his charm.
00:20:03
Caroline
Right.
00:20:04
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Because I think at this point he was charming probably by accident
00:20:09
Caroline
Yeah.
00:20:09
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
but she she helped refine him. And of course, that's how she grew up with good manners and worldly knowledge of um what how to converse with people in a way that was charming and entertaining.
00:20:12
Caroline
you know Right. And it's important.
00:20:27
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And, you know, Jim had something on his mind the whole time he was living in Macon. And that was that um that he wanted to move to Palm Beach, Florida. He had that on his mind. He he had it. He'd been there many times. i've been to I've been to Florida many, many times when I was living in Georgia. It's a very handy place to go to to get to a beach, although Georgia has some beaches too. Anyway, Palm Beach, Florida at that time had money.
00:21:01
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
um Just there was an upper echelon that was not subtle. We're talking rich in everybody else.
00:21:10
Caroline
Well, and I can just imagine it, right? Because you imagine Florida, I'm sure I'm imagining the wrong part. I know there's a ton of parts of Florida, but you know, just that sunny, bright colors, palm trees, white sand beaches, everybody's like tan and half clothed, you know, like that's what I picture.
00:21:30
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Well, it's all of that, Caroline. And there's also money, money, money, money, money in the upper levels of society. ah You know, he had it all now. He had the money. He had a sophisticated, beautiful, and refined wife that was going to help him get into the the the top tier of society there in Palm Beach, Florida. He purchased a $2.5 million dollars mansion on Ocean Drive and they moved to Palm Beach, Florida.
00:22:00
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
This particular home was a historical home and it was just a couple blocks away from that place where a current presidential candidate lives and has a great big party house and who is it?
00:22:17
Caroline
Oh, okay.
00:22:19
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Marlago, I almost couldn't think of a name.
00:22:20
Caroline
Yeah.
00:22:22
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So, you know, we're talking, well,
00:22:24
Caroline
I imagine it's, you know, worth forgetting, but.
00:22:28
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I like to, I just, umve I've never been drawn to that kind of beat, you know, that's, that's just not, that's not my thing.
00:22:35
Caroline
Right.
00:22:37
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
But anyway, there were problems in Palm Springs that he did not anticipate, not Palm Springs, sorry, Palm Beach. See, I'm already moving away from Florida. Now that I live in Washington state, I'm going to go down to California.
00:22:50
Caroline
We're just less coasters. What can we say?
00:22:52
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Yeah, yeah. Okay, so sorry. to listeners Palm Beach, Florida, and Palm Beach, Florida, Jim was rudely awakened to find that his mansion and his bank account in Palm Beach could not overcome the prejudice against two things. Nouveau riche,
00:23:16
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
newly having newly become rich, he that's that's a notch against a rich man.
00:23:23
Caroline
Yeah.
00:23:26
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Most of the money in Palm Beach came from old money.
00:23:28
Caroline
Hmm.
00:23:32
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
The upper crust had wealth dating back many generations and that's going to be true of any deep South state.
00:23:42
Caroline
Yeah.
00:23:43
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
The people with the money who are in the upper crust have had plantations 150 years ago and
00:23:54
Caroline
Yeah.
00:23:55
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
although slavery was outlawed and that life kind of changed they still have that land or part of it and they are very very very wealthy. Well so he had that against him and the second thing he had against him is he had married a beautiful woman who was not welcome in the country clubs because of her race. So when you are very rich and you're at the upper crust of a southern town like Palm Beach, Florida.
00:24:33
Caroline
Yeah.
00:24:34
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
you You have to be in the country club.
00:24:38
Caroline
Yeah.
00:24:38
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Well, there's a color bar.
00:24:40
Caroline
That's yo crushing.
00:24:40
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
There was still a color bar and it may be and it may be invisible today, but I'm going to assert that there's still a color bar.
00:24:49
Caroline
Oh, absolutely. There's still so much implicit bias. That makes me so sad, though, because
00:24:57
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
that she had to put up with that cramp?
00:24:59
Caroline
Well, it harkens for me, it harkens back to these painful, painful contradictions that are just cruel and have no purpose. um But like Nat King Cole, one of my favorite singers, one of dad's favorite singers, every Christmas this man, I listen to him all the time, his voice. I mean, my God.
00:25:20
Caroline
He still couldn't walk through front doors. This man moved souls across the nation with that voice. Couldn't walk in the front door.
00:25:27
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
the world, the
00:25:28
Caroline
just There's a part of that that we all need to just exponentially talk about, right the wrong. And the only way to right that wrong is to talk about how awful it really was to have done.
00:25:39
Caroline
Why was it done? All that stuff. But I'm sad here because it's something she'll never be able to overcome. And that's not fair.
00:25:46
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Well, she thought she thought she could. And you know what? She loved this man and she came with him and he, she probably felt bad for him.
00:25:54
Caroline
Yeah.
00:25:55
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And over time though, it became very apparent to her that he loved his money more than he loved anything in this world. He loved his money. He would not buy her a 59 cents Coca-Cola.
00:26:07
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
She did not have her own money and he resented every penny she spent. And her friends after the killing, her friends all came out and said, you know, we went with her to
00:26:14
Caroline
frustrating. and
00:26:24
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
lunches and dinners all the time. And she was never able to pay the bill because she had no money of her own. And this went on for for several years after she married him. the The couple was very welcome to spend money at the finest restaurants and the finest boutiques and the finest entertainment spots at the upscale nighttime hotspots.
00:26:49
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And they were very welcome to go to swank private fundraising events, but they could never ever be accepted to the real elite of Palm Beach. And these elite families at the country clubs of the day just never would have sponsored, you know, you have to have a sponsor or to get into the country clubs. And they just, you know, nobody was going to sponsor them.
00:27:17
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
because of this color bar and they can say that they did not have a color bar. And I'm going to say, yes, you did.
Divorce and Murder
00:27:23
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So Jim Sullivan began cheating on Lita because Lita was probably not that happy and he would not give her any money.
00:27:32
Caroline
Right.
00:27:35
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
He would not even give her money to get her hair done.
00:27:38
Caroline
Which at this time is a big deal. The hair salon is still a part. It's just like going to the PTA. I mean, this is part of her social network. It would be anyway. I would imagine that this is.
00:27:49
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
a little bit, but who's going to cut your hair? And, you know, you know, there weren't that many people cutting hair professionally back then ah well that knew how to quaff a black lady's hair.
00:27:52
Caroline
I mean.
00:28:03
Caroline
Yeah. That's true, too.
00:28:06
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And, um you know, I remember I was I had I knew people my own age who were black and they complained about that all the time.
00:28:18
Caroline
Hmm.
00:28:18
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Um, there was nobody who knew how to, how to do their hair. So anyway, she finally told Jim that she would divorce him if he did not give her some kind of modest allowance and stop philandering around. So those were, she put her foot down eventually, put her foot down. And he agreed that if she would sign basically, even though they've been married for a few years, a prenuptial agreement kind of document, which she did.
00:28:46
Caroline
how is that normal like that's weird you're already married but you sign a prenup later is that so weird yeah
00:28:48
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
No.
00:28:51
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Well, you, took well, yeah, you can do it at any time, but he, she's asking for money. So, and she's asking for him to stop womanizing. But because Jim is Jim, you know, she signed it and she, in good faith, she made these terms and she, uh, she met her part of the bargain, which was, you know, I'm not going to ask you for any more money anymore.
00:29:12
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
He would give her like, you know, an allowance every month.
00:29:16
Caroline
Yeah.
00:29:16
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
She caught him. oh just a few months after this agreement, she caught him ah sleeping with another woman. She found this other woman's underwear in her bed, the marital bed.
00:29:30
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So Lita packed up and she moved to Atlanta. She rented a townhouse and she filed for divorce.
00:29:39
Caroline
Good for her. Good for you, Lita.
00:29:41
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Yes. Now let's talk about the murder. oh of Lita. Lita had given the last 10 years of her life to Jim Sullivan, and she filed in Georgia court to seek a divorce in court.
00:29:59
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Now, remember, they were married in Macon, Georgia.
00:30:01
Caroline
Yeah, yeah.
00:30:03
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
so um But they were living in pump Palm Beach, and the prenup agreement or the, you know,
00:30:08
Caroline
Palm Beach.
00:30:16
Caroline
Post note.
00:30:16
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
the agreement that Jim had her sign was from the, ah it's, it's a pliable applicable to the Florida courts.
00:30:27
Caroline
Ah, okay.
00:30:30
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
But in Georgia, they have some interesting ah court processes. And one of them is that the prenup agreements are frowned upon in Georgia and If one of the parties was unfaithful and the other of the parties is the one who's under the yoke of a prenuptial agreement, Georgia courts are very eager to maybe say, well, that doesn't apply here because that did not happen in our state.
00:31:02
Caroline
Yeah. Right.
00:31:04
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So now you're going to go before a jury.
00:31:07
Caroline
Yeah.
00:31:07
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
In Georgia, when you have a contested divorce, you're going to go before a jury. Now, this was true in 1975.
00:31:11
Caroline
Wow.
00:31:14
Caroline
Wow.
00:31:14
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
This was true in 1975. And you know, in 1975, she would probably get a mostly black jury.
00:31:21
Caroline
Okay.
00:31:21
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And so she felt more confident that she would get a better deal going back to Georgia.
00:31:27
Caroline
But wow, can we just for a minute talk about what that would do? Like what a freeze that would be for some folks for some women, particularly to seek divorce, you got to go in front of a jury of your peers and talk about this contested divorce.
00:31:43
Caroline
I'm talking about airing dirty laundry.
00:31:47
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Yeah, she was willing to do that.
00:31:49
Caroline
Oh, she probably felt like.
00:31:49
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Um, in order to get her new, she was with him for 10 years. And you know, the micro day to day of marriage to the span, once you taught him how to be respectable, once you taught him how to dress and how to talk and how to walk and all these things that she did for him,
00:31:57
Caroline
Yeah.
00:32:03
Caroline
Mm hmm. Yeah.
00:32:13
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And, you know, then the only way he would give her a nickel was to put her under this agreement.
00:32:20
Caroline
Yeah, that's messed up.
00:32:21
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And so she just said, you know what, I'm going to go to Georgia and file.
00:32:25
Caroline
I think she's so smart. Go Leda.
00:32:27
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Yes, she's smart. ah So, you know, she was kind of thinking, I'm pretty sure I'm going to get a jury trial and I'm pretty sure I'm going to be able to beat him in a cur jury trial.
00:32:39
Caroline
o
00:32:39
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
The court hearing for a judicial decision about the prenuptial agreement was to be heard on January 17th, 1987. And Lita was feeling very confident that based on Jim Sullivan's serial infidelity, she stood a good chance at a jury trial in civil court and that ultimately there would be a fair splitting of the marital assets. But Lita had never got that chance.
00:33:06
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
because she was murdered the day before the court appearance. So now, who would murder this woman? Who would know the date of the court appearance?
00:33:15
Caroline
Yeah, right.
00:33:17
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
But anyway, that day before the court appearance, there was a knock at her door. And she was happy to answer it. She thought, you know, she had friends who were congratulating her and just telling her, you got this girl and all of that.
00:33:28
Caroline
Yeah.
00:33:31
Caroline
She's probably feeling this yolk lift, you know what I mean?
00:33:31
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And so she just thought, well, yeah, yes.
00:33:34
Caroline
Like, I'm feeling it lift for her.
00:33:36
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Yeah, she probably looked out her window and she saw somebody's delivering me roses and their long stem roses. And Lita was, you know, so you got the big long box and and Lita was so happy to receive the flowers.
00:33:47
Caroline
Mm-hmm.
00:33:50
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
She felt certain it was coming from supportive friends or family. So she opened the door and she was shot in the head.
00:33:57
Caroline
My God.
00:33:58
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
The bullet went through the flower box and instantaneously took her life.
00:34:03
Caroline
Oh.
00:34:03
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So the only good part about this is she didn't suffer.
00:34:06
Caroline
That she, her last moment was joy of receiving these flowers, which she should.
00:34:09
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Yes, yes. But, you know, that's that I i'd hesitate to even point that out because um I don't know that.
00:34:16
Caroline
I know.
00:34:19
Caroline
I know, but that's what I want to believe.
00:34:20
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I don't know how many seconds her mind had to say, well, Jim has murdered me.
00:34:26
Caroline
Yeah, I'm sad that that's because she was freeing herself from this yoke and she's smart. I mean look at the even just the very small things that have popped up her taking Jim under her wing creating him as this dapper man to be the head of this household. She was looking she had dreams too. So the second he's not meeting that she makes the demand she settles but because of this agreement thing.
00:34:51
Caroline
But then immediately, I mean, just she just seems like the kind of person you would want to get advice from. You know what I mean? She's smart.
00:34:58
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Oh, yeah, she's smart.
00:34:58
Caroline
She's not. She's not putting herself down.
00:35:00
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Well.
00:35:01
Caroline
You know, she knows her worth.
00:35:03
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Oh, absolutely. She doesn't carry it the way that Jim carried his self centered self worth.
00:35:09
Caroline
Right.
00:35:11
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
But she I mean, she had a ton of friends in Palm Beach.
00:35:15
Caroline
Yeah.
00:35:15
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
She had white friends. She had black friends. She had a life there.
00:35:20
Caroline
Well, yeah, she's.
00:35:20
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
The fact that she was not allowed in the country club didn't bother her one bit.
00:35:25
Caroline
I don't want to go to a country club either.
00:35:27
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
No, no. I mean, you know, she was.
00:35:33
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I guess, you know, she grew up in a segregated South.
00:35:36
Caroline
Yeah.
00:35:37
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So and by segregated, um I mean that even though the Civil Rights Act had taken place oh more than 10 years before she married Jim, it it's still.
00:35:50
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Not being upheld in the Deep South.
00:35:52
Caroline
Yeah.
00:35:54
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
ah Everywhere in the Deep South.
00:35:57
Caroline
Yeah.
00:35:57
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So there was a long road to justice for Rita, a long, long road. And I want to talk about that. Early on, the police were certain that Jim Sullivan was the killer who had hired an assassin to murder her. The van that was in the driveway of Lita's house on the day of the murder was seen by several people.
00:36:23
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And they saw a man get out of the van with a box of long stem roses in his hands. And there appeared to be two other men in the same van. The killer's van was traced to a local hotel and three men had checked in related to that van and stayed in the same room. The men were gone once that connection was made. um They were gone once it was discovered.
00:36:52
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And what was found out though, is by tracing the calls that came from that room, they found that the night of the, but before the murder, um there were three calls that night to Jim from that hotel room.
00:37:09
Caroline
I mean, come on, three calls each other.
00:37:11
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
But the police, the police were not able to convince the prosecutor to bring charges. After all, there was absolutely no way to prove that the conversations with Jim Sullivan was all about.
00:37:23
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I mean, for example, they could have said, oh Jim Sullivan knew these people. So what? Jim Sullivan told them they would love the the Atlanta area or maybe some of them were from
00:37:33
Caroline
Right.
The Second Marriage and Investigation Reopens
00:37:35
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Atlanta.
00:37:35
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I mean, you could make ah the prosecutor felt like we cannot charge him right now because we don't have enough evidence.
00:37:42
Caroline
It's circumstantial.
00:37:44
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And if we bring him to trial and he is acquitted, then we can never bring him to trial.
00:37:44
Caroline
It's not illegal.
00:37:49
Caroline
That's it. Yeah.
00:37:51
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So that's what happened. And as it turned out, one of the men had a relationship with Jim Sullivan as this man was a man whom Jim Sullivan had hired to move him and Lita into their Palm Beach mansion a few years back.
00:38:09
Caroline
Hmm.
00:38:10
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So they knew that Jim knew this man. They knew that Jim had hired these killers.
00:38:14
Caroline
they knew Yes.
00:38:16
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
They just did not have enough evidence to make them feel confident that they could bring this trial to a guilty verdict. And that, I guess, is the litmus test for any prosecutor.
00:38:29
Caroline
Yeah. Yep.
00:38:32
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
um So there just wasn't any tangible evidence, but nobody forgot Lita and the quest to bring justice to leader and Lita and her family moved forward. Now, one of the ways that it moved forward is that Lita's parents sued Jim in a civil court and that he was behind the murder. They won in civil court several million dollars. However, it was overturned in an appeal because they had missed the statute of limitations.
00:39:06
Caroline
oh Stop it. Oh
00:39:09
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And so, I mean, you know, there's just nothing nothing but heartache left and right. They wanted justice and maybe winning in a civil court would give them some sense of justice, but it did not. But in the end time in the meantime, Jim went on with his life. He married one of the women he was cheating with while he was married to Lita. Her name was Suki. And apparently in Palm Beach, being married to an Asian woman,
00:39:37
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
was not the stigma in the social climbing killer that being married to a black woman had been for Jim.
00:39:44
Caroline
That's crazy.
00:39:44
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So now the fact that he's married another person of color kind of makes me wonder, and I don't have any proof.
00:39:45
Caroline
That's just crazy.
00:39:55
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I don't have any facts. I'm just wondering if Jim was attracted to women of color because he felt that he would have a easier time dominating them and not having to give them any money.
00:40:10
Caroline
yeah yeah
00:40:13
Caroline
Right, like it would be easier for him socially to say that he's a miserly husband with ah a wife who is not, you know, in the social standing world considered to be as as of great value or as of great as of the same value as like a woman, ah like a white wife, like that would be awful.
00:40:34
Caroline
But I could totally see that being in his thoughts, in his implicit bias, you know,
00:40:40
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Oh, yeah, not only that, but if he went to Palm Beach as a single rich man living in a mansion not far from Mar-a-Lago, he's probably going to be going after a woman with money.
00:40:55
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And ah he probably did not have the kind of money that is considered uber rich.
00:41:05
Caroline
Yeah.
00:41:05
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And again, he's a nouveau rich.
00:41:07
Caroline
Yes.
00:41:08
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
nouveau riche, I should say.
00:41:10
Caroline
Yes.
00:41:10
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
He's newly minted rich person, but five million dollars is not, he spent a lot of money on that house.
00:41:18
Caroline
Yeah.
00:41:19
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And he he didn't have, he was not a multimillionaire.
00:41:19
Caroline
I was going to say.
00:41:22
Caroline
Yeah.
00:41:24
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
He was finally given, with Suki by his side, he was finally given a prestigious spot in the upper echelons of society in Palm Beach, not the country club.
00:41:35
Caroline
okay Okay.
00:41:35
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
He never made it into the country club. but he was selected to be on the preservation board, which is a big deal. This meant that he would have the say on all those remodels in all those mansions in Palm Beach.
00:41:51
Caroline
Huh.
00:41:51
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So he had finally arrived in the end crowd. he He was, he was finally there, but not the top, which meant that he'd be living at the country club.
00:41:57
Caroline
Yeah.
00:42:02
Caroline
I find board appointments to be a very interesting piece of this. I don't know why I just it's interesting to me that he would be interested in what remodels are taking place. Or is he more interested in the prestige of the appointment to the board?
00:42:15
Caroline
Like, I don't know. There's the face of what we do.
00:42:18
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
This preservation society in the South, imagine your gym. You want to be at the upper, upper, upper levels of society because you believe that that's who you are.
00:42:31
Caroline
Yeah.
00:42:32
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And now you have a place on the board that all these people have to wine you, dine you. They have to grovel to you.
00:42:40
Caroline
Mm. Okay.
00:42:41
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
They have to hang out with you in order to win your vote.
00:42:43
Caroline
Okay. That's what it is. Oh God, no wonder I'm so uncomfortable. Like none of this is stuff I've ever even, even if I had like an endless tap of money, like I wouldn't want to be anywhere near this kind of stuff, which is probably why I don't have an endless supply of money, but I just, it's so uncomfortable to me to think about that. I don't know, but I mean, people, obviously people love it. They want it. They want all these, I find it all very fakie and I get so uncomfortable around fake.
00:43:13
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Now, Caroline, I need to remind you that you do too on a lot of money because you sometimes play the lottery and you swear you're going to buy me a great big house once you win.
00:43:21
Caroline
Oh God, I would mom. I would. I would buy everyone. I love a house, which is why I think the universe is like, yeah, I'm not giving him any cash, but.
00:43:30
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Anyway, back to Jim. Unfortunately for Jim, he had not changed his ways as far as how he treated and cheated on his wife. Sukey finally just got sick of it just like Lita had and she filed for a divorce. And in so doing, she spilled the bucket of all the times Jim had told her how he murdered Lita. She went straight to the po police. This was a valuable to the Atlanta prosecutor, but he still needed direct evidence of the contract murder. Cause you could always say, well, she's just,
00:44:06
Caroline
Exactly.
00:44:06
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
She's just making that up. She knows that people suspected him.
00:44:10
Caroline
Yep.
00:44:10
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And so I'm just going to pretend that he said those things to me. But no, he really did.
00:44:17
Caroline
Yeah.
00:44:17
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And who were these three men? So they the prosecutor was willing to you know do deeper investigations now. And because they had this one person, Suki, who could be a primo witness in the trial.
00:44:33
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
but About this time, ah there's there's some interest being developed over Jim Sullivan and this case, and the prosecutor's pushing that interest. And there was a TV show that came out that featured this case, the still unsolved killing of Lita, and the case started heating up again. So in other words, you know, like,
00:45:01
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
um
00:45:02
Caroline
Unsolved Mysteries with Robert Stack.
00:45:03
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Yeah, so either that or the other one where the, there yes, yes, yes, yes, it's that kind of thing.
00:45:08
Caroline
America's Most Wanted with What's His Name?
00:45:13
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So the prosecutor received a call from a woman by the name of Belinda Trahan after she saw an episode about the murder on this national television show.
Justice Served: Jim's Conviction
00:45:25
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Then living in Texas, she told the prosecutor, his name was Boone, She was with her then boyfriend, Phillip Anthony Harwood, when Sullivan paid him $25,000 to kill Lita on the night before a key hearing in the couple's divorce.
00:45:42
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And she knew all of that from conversations with Phillip.
00:45:43
Caroline
Oh, wow.
00:45:46
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Now remember, Phillip Anthony Harwood, he's the man who helped Lita and Jim move from Mobile to Palm Beach.
00:45:54
Caroline
OK.
00:45:59
Caroline
The connections on the web.
00:46:01
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
There's a connection. So then now we're getting some direct evidence.
00:46:02
Caroline
Yeah. Yeah.
00:46:05
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Trahan's story checked out. They checked everything out about her, about what was said and did it match up with the evidence and so forth.
00:46:14
Caroline
um Wow.
00:46:15
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And it spurred prosecutors in Atlanta to charge Sullivan with murder. Harwood pleaded guilty to voluntary manslaughter and was sentenced to 20 years in prison.
00:46:25
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So he got off light by being the ah He gave himself up um and he said, yeah, that was me. I want to make a deal. So he was, he was the trigger man, but he only got charged with manslaughter. He was released in May of 2018.
00:46:45
Caroline
Wow.
00:46:46
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And you know, I'm kind of okay with that, if that's what it takes to trap this killer, um Jim Sullivan.
00:46:51
Caroline
The mastermind. Yeah, I'm with you.
00:46:55
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Meanwhile, the prosecutor also charged Jim Sullivan with the murder of Lita. finally charged with his wife's murder in 1998. He fled to Costa Rica, then Panama, then Venezuela, and finally to Thailand, where he was caught in 2002.
00:47:13
Caroline
Jeez.
00:47:14
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
After a four-year manhunt, and I love it that Jim was having to fly, just he was a he was a man on the run, and he knew it.
00:47:19
Caroline
Bop around. Yeah.
00:47:25
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And so can you imagine how nervous he was all the time?
00:47:28
Caroline
Yeah.
00:47:28
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I'm happy. So after a four-year manhunt, Jim was finally brought back to Atlanta for trial. He was convicted in 2006, and he was sentenced to life in prison rather than death.
00:47:46
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
You know, I like that.
00:47:48
Caroline
yeah
00:47:48
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
It had been 19 years since Lita was murdered.
00:47:51
Caroline
I was just thinking that.
00:47:52
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So it took 19 years to catch this asshole, this rich asshole.
00:47:54
Caroline
Oh, but he got caught. I'm I'm thinking about lead as parents, honestly, like right in that moment.
00:47:57
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
He got caught.
00:48:01
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
they They were alive when this happened.
00:48:04
Caroline
Oh, thank God.
00:48:06
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So they lived to see this day in 2006.
00:48:08
Caroline
Good. Hmm.
00:48:13
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Jim Sullivan was 64 years old when he was convicted. Gone was all his money, his social climbing, his arrogance, no more womanizing.
00:48:23
Caroline
Good.
00:48:30
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And who cares if he lies? Nobody.
00:48:33
Caroline
Yeah.
00:48:34
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
You're going through the big house, buddy.
00:48:36
Caroline
Yeah, that everybody lies there. They're they're used to it.
00:48:40
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And my favorite part of this story is that he is still alive and languishing in a Georgia prison in his eighties.
00:48:50
Caroline
That's crazy.
00:48:51
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Yay, I'm glad. I really, really hate this man because I came to love
00:49:00
Caroline
Yeah.
00:49:02
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I came to love Lita and I just love everything about her.
00:49:02
Caroline
We love you.
00:49:06
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
She stayed with this man for 10 years.
00:49:09
Caroline
Well, she was doing all the right stuff. Let's be real. like We are all born into the structures we're born into. We all have the desires to get out of it what we want, and therein lies the life. you The life struggle. You make decisions. You're trying to arrange. You're trying to see future paths, create things, destroy things, reconstruct.
00:49:31
Caroline
What's the whole big thing she did all the things she was supposed to do within her society and then some right she also took the risks to build something greater. all the things When it wasn't working she pivoted and i'm just like i think her most powerful moment is going and getting that town home.
00:49:48
Caroline
divorce in a Georgia but in a Georgia court like forget you dude I got you where you are you can't even do these basic things like she just seems like someone I would have wanted to have in my world because it would have made my world a better place do you know what I mean like she would have driven me to be better
00:50:02
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Absolutely. Her attitude toward the doorbell ringing the day before her court appearance, where hopefully she was going to get the green light to have her jury trial over the divorce of her husband, our Jim Sullivan, the fact that she was happy that she had, she did not have one Second of, I wonder who's at my door.
00:50:32
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
You don't think Jim is trying to kill me, do you?
00:50:33
Caroline
Yeah. Right.
00:50:35
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I mean, she just did not have it in her mind. All she knew was she had friends. She had family. They all were so happy for her.
00:50:44
Caroline
Yes.
00:50:46
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
In fact, there was a friend in her house that morning upstairs who would had come to see her and spent the night and this kind of thing. And so she got immediate care, but it was too late, obviously.
00:50:58
Caroline
Oh my god.
00:50:59
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And, um, there was also a neighbor that saw the man with flowers and he hid and watched everything that happened. And he called 911 immediately by watching.
00:51:10
Caroline
Wow.
00:51:11
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I mean, he could see the man, that he could see the door open and he heard the shots.
00:51:13
Caroline
Yes.
00:51:16
Caroline
So he's looking at what's happening.
00:51:16
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Of course, he was afraid that he'd seen this man. And so he had given them a very good description and police knew for 19 years.
00:51:19
Caroline
Yeah.
00:51:24
Caroline
They knew what the story was. Yes, that's hard.
00:51:27
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
They knew they just needed to make an ironclad case. And, you know, that's one thing I love and hate about the American justice system.
00:51:34
Caroline
Me too.
00:51:35
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Once you are found to be not guilty, you can come out and say that you did it and they can't arrest you for that.
00:51:43
Caroline
Yes, and if you want to learn more about that, as well as the unfortunate history around racial relations, Emmett Till is a really great case that highlights the double jeopardy. Both flaw, I guess you could say, but also in the importance, because it is important to not have to continue to be brought to trial over something when you've already been found by a jury of your peers to be not guilty.
00:51:55
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Mm hmm.
00:52:05
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Right.
00:52:06
Caroline
beautiful that the civil option is always available. We see that with the OJ trial, you may get a an acquittal in the criminal side, but you have the rights to make yourself whole on the civil side. So I mean, as flawed as the American justice system is, and I'm with you, Mom, it is flawed in these ways. um I think it's I think it's really when we get these convictions, they are very airtight. And I feel good about knowing the facts here, you know,
00:52:32
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Right. The prosecutors in Atlanta are still working on this case because they're trying to pursue money that they believed Jim Sullivan may have had stashed away in foreign accounts. Now, remember, he hopped all over the globe trying to escape capture. And um so they they were they were certain that he had money in foreign accounts. They have found documents of Jim Sullivan's from his home
00:53:04
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
in Thailand, where they picked him up, um which is him complaining in documents about the fees that he had to pay to places like banks in Liechtenstein, a German speaking principality between Switzerland and Austria. So they believe that he's got money stowed away in some of these foreign banks. And if they ever find the funds, the money will go to Lita's relatives.
00:53:32
Caroline
Oh, good.
00:53:33
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Yeah, she had two sisters and nieces and nephews, I'm sure. And so the money will go to them if they find the money and they're still working on it.
00:53:39
Caroline
Oh, I hope they find it. I hope they find it. If anyone's got any tips on that.
00:53:45
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I do too. It's very difficult, I guess, too.
00:53:48
Caroline
Yeah.
00:53:48
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And isn't it just like that son of a bitch, Jim Sullivan, to complain about a bank fee where where he's putting his dirty money
00:53:54
Caroline
Yeah.
00:53:56
Caroline
Yeah, right.
00:54:01
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And I call it dirty now because he's using it to escape justice.
00:54:06
Caroline
right nine hour
00:54:07
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
He's hiding it in these foreign banks. Well, you know, if you want to hide your money in a foreign bank, that's fine, but you're going to pay our price. He didn't like that. He didn't like, so he left breadcrumbs in his complaints.
00:54:18
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I love that. This man was hoisted on his own petard more than once. I hope he's listening to our, podcast today, because I want him to know how thoroughly empty I think he is.
00:54:33
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I don't care what he sounds like, how he walks, what he's wearing, who he is, where he is. I don't care. You're just an empty, empty vessel for evil.
00:54:42
Caroline
Yeah, I agree with that. Just selfish, self-centered.
00:54:44
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
He's just evil. Evil. And um that's our story sheet, Caroline. I'm, I'm so happy that Leda got the justice that she deserved and that her family got the justice that they deserve.
00:55:01
Caroline
Yeah.
00:55:01
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And I hope that they get some of his money someday because that would just be ice cream with your fudge brownie. I mean, that would just be so great.
00:55:09
Caroline
Yeah. I hope so too.
00:55:15
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So listeners, thanks for listening. Today's episode is research written and narrated by Bridget and Caroline. Produced by Andy, I reach searches solely based on public domain documents, including legal documents, articles, and books about our subject. Episodes are aired every other week. If you like us, please subscribe and give us a five-star review, especially on Apple. It really helps people find us, tell your friends about us in person, and by social media. All of these actions help find ah listeners help listeners find us
00:55:52
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So thank you. We appreciate you very much. And one more thing. Don't forget to live and let live. So bye bye, Caroline.
00:56:05
Caroline
ah Bye-bye.