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Beer Tourism On The Brookie Trail
470 Plays16 days ago
Beer tourism was back on the cards in 2024 in a big way – locally, at least, as we noted in our Year in Beer 2024 wrap. A number of new ale trails popped up, with those in WA's South West, Newcastle and the enhanced Inner West Ale Trail joining well-established ventures in places such as the NSW South Coast and Collingwood.
Already in 2025, they’ve been joined by the Brookie Trail, which formalised the unofficial trek between the breweries of Brookvale. Not only is it the country’s newest at time of writing, it has to be the easiest to take on: many of the venues are within easy eyesight of each other.
To find out how it came about, what it’s all about, and to learn more about beer businesses can work in harmony to bring visitors through all of their doors, we paid a visit, catching up with Freshwater Brewing co-founder Jonny Bucknall and 7th Day Brewery GM Joel Ridzuan (who had to travel an arduous 60m from brewery door to brewery door).
As well as picking their brains about Brookie, beer tourism, and how they got the trail off the ground, we delve into their stories, the diversity the area’s breweries bring, the challenges of operating as a small beer business in 2025, and what the local Macca’s carpark needs to do to qualify for the trail.
Prior to the main interview, we reflect on another tough few days in the beer industry. First, Brisbane pioneers Newstead Brewing closed their doors for good suddenly after trying to navigate years of endless unforeseen challenges; days later, Konvoy Kegs was placed into receivership after their main lender cut off funding.
Rather more upbeat is the tale out of WA, where the founders of Funk Drinks Co. – best known for their ciders – have launched their first beer brewed with grains grown on their farm and malted locally too, while expressions of interest are now open for Sydney Beer Week, and you can still nominate for our second Bluestone Yeast Brewery of the Month.
Start of segments:
- 9:17 – Jonny & Joel Part 1
- 31:00 – Rockstar Brewery Academy
- 37:36 – – Jonny & Joel Part 2
Relevant links:
- Crafty's Year in Beer 2024
- Freshwater Brewing
- 7th Day Brewery
- The Brookie Trail
- Newstead Closes For Good
- Konvoy Kegs Go Into Receivership
- Funk Farmers Go Paddock To Pint
- Sydney Beer Week
- Nominate a Bluestone Yeast Brewery of the Month
- Rockstar Brewer Academy
To find out more about supporting the show or otherwise partnering with The Crafty Pint, contact craig@craftypint.com.
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Transcript
Introductions and Event Aftermath
00:00:05
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Crafty Pint podcast. I'm Will. I'm James and apologies up front. Both of us are coming across a little bit croaky this weekend. It's been a long weekend here in Victoria. We were both away at the same event, didn't manage to bump into each other, but both woke up on Monday morning somewhat diminished when it came to our voices. that Mine was actually completely non-existent on Monday morning. ah Great way to start my 50th year on the planet, but thankfully has recovered quite considerably by now.
Challenges in the Beer Industry
00:00:31
Speaker
um But yeah, so um it's also been a pretty challenging week, not just for my vocal cords, but for the beer industry. um There was some news that started sort of filtering through from Brisbane late last week, which has been confirmed this week by the team at Newstead Brewing.
00:00:45
Speaker
Yes, ah unfortunately, one of the pioneering of breweries in Frisman's craft beer scene has um closed the doors permanently. and Obviously, a lot of breweries at the moment in southeast Queensland are dealing with the impact of Cyclone Alfred, but this, they say, is completely unrelated to that. More to do with the 2022 floods, where they were severely impacted. They couldn't brew for months to month and months and months.
00:01:07
Speaker
And then on top of that, they um also point to the current challenge challenges many in the industry are facing is showing that they just couldn't keep operating, basically. Yeah, well, I paid a visit several months after the 2020 floods. i mean, the flood borders there did come in like several feet high.
00:01:23
Speaker
yeah halfway up some of the machinery in the brewery, took took weeks to clear out. um They couldn't brew for a number of months then. And I guess there was all the repair work that had to be done. The venue was you know completely underwater as well.
00:01:34
Speaker
um I think they've done what they can to try and come back. But you know you try and come back from that on the back of COVID, which would have impacted them with the closure of Suncorp Stadium across the road that used to send a lot of people their way on game days into you know cost of living crisis, everything else that the industry is fighting against. so It does sound like certainly staff and the and the the shutdown of the venue came pretty quickly, but it must have it's been a many years sort of, I guess, in consideration. They were looking to sell the business from what they were saying.
00:02:01
Speaker
um i just guess it's really sad. I think, you know, they opened a few months after Green Beacons. In 2013, those two breweries opened very close to each other. Newstead brought this fantastic level of hospitality.
00:02:12
Speaker
um it was certainly, I guess, you know, the the real first real sort of like um brew pub, high-quality food, that kind of thing that Brisbane had seen. They've been very supportive, lot of other beer businesses coming along, a lot of collaborations, a lot of stuff with the arts, sort of stuff with sport.
00:02:26
Speaker
um And yeah, just haven't been able to to make it
Brewing Industry Continuity
00:02:29
Speaker
work. um I guess they live on in a way because they they moved, or they had their original Doggett Street site. They took over the the second, the bigger venue and bigger and brewery in Milton a few years after first opening.
00:02:42
Speaker
The Doggett Street site was sort of taken over by Working Title, where the original one of the founders of Newstead Brewing is one of the founders there, Mark Howes, with his mate Luke Shields. So I guess there's ah there's some continuity, you know, from from the original Brewstead team carrying on through Working Title. But yeah, Newstead Brewing um is no more Yeah, yeah, and um I mean another sign of just how cash-strapped and difficult the industry is is ah the news from Convoy Kegs as well that um they've been putting receivership.
Convoy Kegs Receivership
00:03:10
Speaker
It looks like one of their main um backers has is decided to not invest anymore.
00:03:16
Speaker
So um we'll see what happens there. We're still working on the story at the moment, so there'll be more information on the Craft Compliant website yeah once this um once you're hearing the podcast. Yeah. Yeah, I guess for people don't know Convoy, they're one of the biggest um sort of leases and suppliers of kegs to the industry. um We've worked with them in the past on Pint of Origin.
00:03:34
Speaker
um Often if you walk past any pub or brewery, you're going to see all of their kegs with the um the red stripes on. um And you know they've been they've been expanding, for me yeah forming partnerships elsewhere. But yeah, clearly...
00:03:47
Speaker
They've been caught up. And so, yeah, we'll'll we'll see what happens on that front. We'll find out a bit more before the podcast goes live.
Sustainable Brewing Practices
00:03:53
Speaker
um i guess in non-closure sale receivership news, and we had a nice positive story from Guy Southern in WA.
00:04:01
Speaker
Yeah, about ah so Funk Cider is a name that a lot of people in WA would know. They've been operating for some time. They've moved into beer more recently and um they've they've created a beer, the Farmhouse Ale, with their with their own barley and wheat that they've worked with some local people to get malted.
00:04:16
Speaker
um So it's really good. I spoke to them a number of years ago and they were talking about putting this brewery in and or having the capacity to brew rather and then... um And realizing that they wanted to do it their own way and what can they do differently?
Sydney Beer Week and Future Plans
00:04:30
Speaker
They have a farm, they're farm based, they understand ingredients and things like that. So they wanted to really showcase that. and And yeah, I think it's really interesting thing. um We'll see them, I'm sure, work with other malts and things like that. So it'll be exciting space to watch. Yeah, honest its just I think it's another example of breweries and other businesses in the beer working sustainable manner, looking to, you i guess, cut down beer miles, whatever you want to call it, ingredient miles, and and do things that, um you know I guess, really highlight the partnership between breweries and agriculture, especially when the brewery is...
00:05:01
Speaker
The same yeah bit of agriculture supply it's a wine that they have for the beer. um'm Looking a bit further ahead, on on the other side of the country, um Sydney Beer Week have opened expressions of interest for the 2025 festival in October.
00:05:13
Speaker
um They came back last year after a few years off. A little bit different this year. Last year they only wanted... um events to be hosted at venues. This year they're allowing breweries to get em on board and and host events as well.
00:05:25
Speaker
so you can jump on the Sydney Beer Week website to get your expressions of interest in for rents before the end of April. Yes, and also make sure you get your Bluestone Brewery of the Month shout-outs in. Cypher, as I said last week, the team was stoked. So if you want to like really ah really impress your local brewery and really make them feel special, um make sure you get the applications in.
00:05:46
Speaker
Yeah, and you can do that craftypint.com slash bluestone, B-L-U-E-S-T-O-N-E, and we'll be announcing the next winner pretty soon. um Yeah, and as is fast becoming tradition on this podcast, I have another apology to make in terms of Names and pronunciations.
Brookvale Beer Tourism Initiatives
00:06:02
Speaker
Last week ah when we were talking about Bright Brewery, I called their Evan Craney. Accidentally, i called him Evan Cray, who works for Bent Smoke. It's a mistake I often make, often silently rather than recorded. So unfortunately, I forgot to correct that one before the podcast went out.
00:06:17
Speaker
Yeah, you didn't have an editor there just to just to correct it as it came out of you Normally, I have the other one standing over me, reminding me of these boots. Apologies to Evan Craney and to Evan Cray as well.
00:06:28
Speaker
Yeah, who wants to be confused with the other one? Anyway, about time to head to our main chat the week. This is one of the two podcast interviews I recorded while I was in Sydney a couple of weeks ago. Feels like a lifetime ago in some ways.
00:06:40
Speaker
um I headed up to Brookvale. We've done a fair bit of coverage on what's been happening in Brookvale and then all the beaches. um i mean, there's been breweries there for quite some time, like Dad and Dave were there for and number of years, Nomad have been there 10 years, etc.
00:06:52
Speaker
but now there's this real um clutch of them incredibly close together. They launched the Brookie Trail, one of many ale trails around the country, few weeks ago. um And so I went and caught up with Johnny Bucknell, one of the founders of Freshwater Brewing Co, who prior to that was working for the Northern Beaches Brewery at Modus in Mona Vale, and to Joel Rydswan, who works for Seventh-day Brewery, literally across the road, about 60 metres away from Freshwater,
00:07:17
Speaker
um So we had a good chat about beer tourism, um what they've been doing to sort of promote or encourage people to come out there, promote each other. They had their second thing, was Brookie Fest, not too long ago, like launch the trail with a three-day event. There was dash and racing, chilli eating, all manner of, you know, there was lots of beer and live music and stuff as well.
00:07:35
Speaker
um But it's pretty cool what they're doing and, you know, understanding why they're doing it have a bit of a chat about beer tourism as well as the personalities of each venue. um Bit of an apology for that one there. We've just switched to using some new cameras and a new setup recently to you know improve the quality of what we're doing. But there was a slight glitch.
00:07:53
Speaker
We're not quite sure why. um But for a few minutes earlier on in the video, audio is fine, but the the video does get a little bit stuttery it fixes itself after about six minutes. So if you are watching this on YouTube, I apologize for the stuttery vision at the start.
00:08:06
Speaker
um But aside from that, yeah, after the break, we'll join Johnny and Joel um and Will. Yeah, great. So if you enjoy it, make sure you like and subscribe. Cheers. Cheers.
00:08:22
Speaker
One of the best things about this craft beer industry of ours is the way everyone shares, collaborates and lends a helping hand when needed. But as so often happens, those good deeds can sometimes go unnoticed.
00:08:32
Speaker
Well, now with the support of Rowling's Labels Stickers and Packaging, who are themselves known for their outstanding service and strong relationships with the industry, we're delighted to give every good beer citizen a bit of well-deserved recognition.
00:08:45
Speaker
We're calling on you to nominate anyone who's gone out of their way to help you out. It doesn't matter how big or small, it's just a ah wonderful way to give that person or business a shout out and thank you.
00:08:56
Speaker
We'll highlight the best nominees on the Crafty Pint podcast and lucky winners of the Donna Rowling's Good Deed will win a Rowling's gift voucher and earn a big thumbs up from friends and colleagues.
00:09:08
Speaker
So what are you waiting for? Give that good deed a shout out. head to craftypint.com forward slash railings and nominate today.
00:09:19
Speaker
Johnny and Joel, welcome to the show. Thank you. thanks for having having Thanks for having me up in Brookie. and Apologies that it's day five of my very hectic Sydney trip and I look like deaf cooled down. bro like right It's a long drive on the terrible spit bridge. So thanks for coming out our way. Yeah, no, no, it's good to be in this. and Well, we get to how close all the breweries are, but it has been quite an amazing thing. But um I thought we sort of start with probably the most recent news for the Brookvale area, which is the the launch of the Brookie Trail.
00:09:46
Speaker
um positive beer tourism kind of thing i don't know if what of you want to tell me to tell me sort of how that's come about and what the brookie trail is um yeah so brookie trail it's kind of we've been working together as a group of breweries for a while now and the brookie trail launch is kind of the official launch of it but ah essentially it's brookvale has seven breweries and three distilleries and we've you know we're all on whatsapp groups together we'll we're all neighbors essentially and so last year we did a heap of events and activations um where we kind of got people to brookvale to kind of discover more than the one or two places that they were going and then this year we kind of went hell for leather um and really pushed it hard
00:10:32
Speaker
kind of got some decent branding. Kentaro, really amazing illustrator, pulled together some amazing, he's a local guy, loves a beer. and um yeah Is that how he was paid? Bit of Contra?
00:10:43
Speaker
I think he got paid. I think it worked both ways. I think, you he got paid, but he also got some Contra. But yeah, he's a legend and and perfect for it. He's a real kind of Northern Beaches kind of figurehead. And yeah, and we... we worked out essentially a three-day festival to kick it off um just to get people hopping from venue to venue because you hear heaps of like uh can we have a map like where is it even though like we're super close to each other and it's two minutes walk you kind of don't know what you don't know so having a map for people to discover like
00:11:19
Speaker
like Like even you, when you've been zipping around the place, I think you've been kind of amazed. Oh, I went to move my car from out the front of Bucket East. And I've been there an hour. don't know tight they are around here. I'll go to Dad and Dave's next. And I drove that way. And then when I was actually being around and parked the car, I was like, it's actually. You got closer to the other one. Yeah, it was literally like, it's probably even 100 meters. And then when I was parking the car above here earlier today, you can see Bucket East at the back and you guys are across the road. Like it is amazing. Yeah, so if we do have a little bit of muscle on our big brother's, the Inner West Ale Trail, is that our platform is tiny. Yeah, yeah.
00:11:52
Speaker
And 10 minutes, you can do the whole lap, basically, maybe 15 minutes, depending how many beers you've had. Yeah, Nick was like, oh, you know, Broken Bays of bit further out the way i oh how far? And it's like, it was like 700 meters, 30. Exactly. it's not a long way. Yeah.
00:12:06
Speaker
You don't really get to sober up in between places. You got to plan what you're doing. So that was the intention. And we all, I mean, we're small businesses all hustling to get people here.
00:12:17
Speaker
And so the thinking was always like, well, let's just team up. like you know we're we're not competing against each other we're just trying to get people a out the house and then which is hard off the couch and then be here to whatever we have to throw like bucketies and seventh day particularly well known for their live music um and so it's like if that's what you're into go for it if you want a gin and tonic there's plenty of places to go If you want a beer garden, if you don't want a beer garden, if you've kids, if you've got dogs, whatever it might be, you kind of find it and yeah, stronger together.
00:12:50
Speaker
Something for everyone. And we realized that if twice as many people come to the suburb, it doesn't bloody matter which venue they go to because every single one of us will prosper. yeah So the idea is amplify the suburb and something that 2025 will lead in really hard is...
00:13:07
Speaker
how do we get the punters to come nice and early? Because if you come out nice and early, especially on game day, you're going to get to experience whole lot of different places in some kind of like festival-like activity zone. yeah yeah and And so in in terms of like who's put it together, is it...
00:13:23
Speaker
been funded or put together by the breweries or you managed to get like government support or grants anything like that to get done? Yeah. So, uh, Seventh Day, uh, applied for the Venue Accelerator grant last year. And was also from Seventh Day. Yeah, that's me. I shouldn't even say that at the start. Yeah. I work at Seventh Day. Johnny's got his first water hat on to help. We didn't really do a good job at that. Uh, yeah. So Seventh Day were recipients of the Venue Accelerator grant by the New South Wales government.
00:13:48
Speaker
And then piggybacking off off that, there was an opportunity to go for a group grant, which Brookvale Arts District have also got some of our comrades in Brookvale. ah We hazily thought, let's just have a stab at trying to get this grant, not really knowing what we were doing or if we'd be eligible.
00:14:06
Speaker
ah Somehow we were successful. Yeah. part of the reason that we were successful was that we'd already banded together. We'd done Rookie Fest inaugural 2024 and it had worked. yeah And we hired a grant writer.
00:14:17
Speaker
And we hired a grant writer. That's kind of useful. So we had a lot of data in front of us that looked really good. and So we got picked up for the group grant and that has definitely amplified our opportunity to to really resource the suburb.
00:14:32
Speaker
And is it open to just breweries or is is there are there other producers on there? can If other people come along, can they be part of it or like how's it working? So the intention was like when we first got going, it was all bootstrapped and we did it ourselves. It was like, but you know, we're running our own businesses. We're all super busy anyway, but like...
00:14:51
Speaker
get it get it like proof of concept up and now we we're there, we've got the grant and we could get the awareness out. The next stage is the other producers.
00:15:02
Speaker
The zoning in this area is you kind of have to be a producer wholesaler. You can't just open a small bar around the corner unless historical. um And so pretty much everyone that isn't already there is kind of doing something kind of interesting and worthwhile discovering. So, you know, there's a his coffee roasters, get them on the list. You know, there's an amazing surf museum and they do heaps of like pop up events.
00:15:28
Speaker
There's the ice cream place i've seen. Yeah, an i know i yeah, Yeah, there's so many little pockets and like when you're wandering around an industrial area, you kind of don't know what's around each corner and so we're going to help get people to discover it and you know, we know we there's a this is kind of a big push to promote and improve Brookvale.
00:15:52
Speaker
And we know it's only going to get better. So we just kind of make, our concern and our sort of focus is kind of what's epic about this area is the organic nature and how it grew, like independent small businesses that have just, you know, got a passion.
00:16:07
Speaker
And, you know, whether it be, you know, anything, we don't, as things get gentrified, it's quite easy for the little guys to get squashed and, you know, developers come in and and so you just, we're just trying to foster that community um and keep it keep it within everyone's interest.
00:16:26
Speaker
And what's been the impact today? I know it's only like, is it as we're talking now, I'm not sure when the show's going out, but like it's been more three or four weeks since you actually officially launched the concept. So has it been sort of, you obviously had the big opening weekend, but have you had some media coverage, seen more people were talking about it? Yeah.
00:16:43
Speaker
ah We already felt like the Brookie Trail existed previously. at the very start of 2024 but we hadn't given it or we'd given it a couple of shit names and then we finally came to tell us what the shit names were ah the oh the collective no just i feel bad if there's a collective there's heaps of collectives And then we realize, oh, that's just talking about o ourselves. We're supposed to be talking about the verb of what you do. Like you're supposed to trail around the suburbs. So our head honcho, Jackie Stanton ah came up with the name and she's like, this is the name.
00:17:19
Speaker
You need to tell people that they need to hop around. They need to get here early. And there's heaps going on. With a name like that, i think she should be a big beat producer as well. Jackie Stanton just sounds like she's that sort of- When you get to meet her, she jackki step she is so badass.
00:17:34
Speaker
And, uh... She's looking after a bunch of precincts who've got the grants. Yeah. And she's so passionate about little blobs of suburbs just amplifying and working together.
00:17:45
Speaker
i mean, I think for us, it's like we've got a platform now and we've got, we're organized. We've got a website. know, and How 2010 of you. Yeah, I know. It's very cutting edge. But, um you know, it's...
Brookvale's Unique Beer Culture
00:18:00
Speaker
It's a platform to build on. yeah And I think like actually the awareness is there. Like we had a bit more cash to get posters out, endorse it properly, get some t-shirts. That's important.
00:18:11
Speaker
um And the things we've seen in a very fresh water sort of pallet as well. did you Nothing to do with me. I mean, I i was quite happy about it. Yeah, it's good. but um Yeah, I think ah it's it's successful just purely because of the awareness. um And I think, you know, you'd be amazed by how many people come to this area for the first time that live like a K away.
00:18:34
Speaker
You're like, what? I mean, because how would you, if someone who hasn't been to Brookvale before, how would you describe it? Because, you know it's been a few years sitting for years since I was up here and driving in and you're like, it's not not it's not the beaches of Northern Beaches. Like, it's functional. Like, it's a lot, you know, there's there's shopping malls. Yeah. It's...
00:18:50
Speaker
Yeah, it's an industrial suburb. For sure, it's not like the beaches. yeah Curly, D.Y., Freshie, around the five minutes drive from here to go for a serve. And then you come in this way and it's just a gravelly burb.
00:19:05
Speaker
because it's It's like the town that's sort of in the middle of like a farming region that has all the tractor and the grain shops. Brookie is supplying everything around it. It is the supply suburb.
00:19:15
Speaker
And it's always been known as ah as a mechanic suburb. um There's a Maccas that's been here forever and the car park is iconic that you go and sit there and and have beers when you're a teenager. and there's a couple it's not It's not on the trail though?
00:19:29
Speaker
Not yet. Yeah, their inclusion is 50,000 per annum. Okay. Come on, kids. No, I'm only kidding. ah ah I think Johnny might have said it earlier, the ah suburb ah is definitely a bit rough around the edges. Every venue is a little bit different.
00:19:49
Speaker
So there's something to offer every venue. yeah And what we're trying to push in-house is that the conversations we have over the bar. Yeah, definitely. should be like, oh, we where have you been?
00:20:00
Speaker
Oh, sick. They did great beers. Oh, cool. wait Where are you guys headed next? Oh, they have live music. yeah you're You're going to have a great night. Just pay it forward. It's going go around the circles. Well, last night, Thursday evening, there was Cornhole Championships on at your place. There was live music on it.
00:20:13
Speaker
Bucket East, there was trivia on it, maybe a couple of places as well. With me and Johnny drinking beer here. was sort of the entertainment here, I guess. Exactly. From what I understand, when you did the opening weekend, there was some crazy...
00:20:27
Speaker
events so like who Who did the dash and racing? ah bucketies Bucketies did dash and racing. ah We basically copy pasted what we did the first year because it went really well. yeah ah We did chili eating comp, which is amazing. yeah And then ah the very, very OG skate shop on Pitwater Road bought a skate shop.
00:20:46
Speaker
hosted a skate demo in the car park nice and it absolutely went off. it was It was amazing. It was kind of permission to be quirky. It was like permission to celebrate the area. Like if you're going to Brookie Fest, it's like, you know, everyone has their own connotations and associations. And so like there was some awesome stuff and like real creativity. um And again, like if you've got a Dachshund, you can race one, right? And if you want to sweat your face off having chilies, then that's up to you. Yeah. And to put a bit of perspective into it, like Dachshund racing is the iconic part of Brookie First. And I think you can start at 11 o'clock on the Saturday. Yeah.
00:21:25
Speaker
There were 200 people lined up to go into bucketies at 11am on Saturday morning. duroom A lot of them. Yeah. And they were full by 1130. I've never seen it, but I'm hoping this video is out. I'd imagine it's pretty damn funny. It's funny. amazing Yeah. Tiny legs, you know, yeah nothing better than that.
00:21:41
Speaker
Like down a little path. Yeah. And it's something I think we've all agreed to a little bit is that we need to dash and we need to facilitate fun in Brookvale. It's really hard to get people off the couch. Netflix is really, really good at the moment. and We need to insert some theater to get punters out on the road yeah and and stuff like dogs racing and chili eating comps and all this other stuff. It gets people out out of there. Well, I think what's impressed me as well is the the size of most of the places as well. Like, you know, folks I've seen for when we've done stories, got listings on Crafty Pint for the various breweries.
00:22:13
Speaker
I guess they're almost like tied to shops at the bar where people enjoy themselves. And then I come in here to Freshwater. like, fuck, this is big. And then went to Buckethe's yesterday is oh this and there's the angle different I was expecting. But you've got your beer garden out the back. It's big. And no you you guys have got loads of space out the front as well as indoors. And it's like...
00:22:29
Speaker
Give us more venue numbers. so So, no, there is that space to, I guess, to be creative and do, you know, interesting stuff. And obviously, you know Nick's bringing another venue on board. It's going to be, but you know, big sports bar kind of thing as well. And it's a been quite amazing, like, the scope and the the size of the places as well. yeah Yeah. And we have the Big Dogs Four Pines in our neighbourhood as well. So they really they're really able to amplify ah us as well. And they're real they've been amazing, their ability to say, hey,
00:22:57
Speaker
we we want to amplify that the indie guys in the suburb. yeah Obviously, they so they sponsor Four Pines Park, so that that's a big thing. The Manly footy games are a huge part of what makes Brookvale tick. So it's just been really it's been really cohesive with with a lot of our colleagues.
00:23:11
Speaker
Yeah. And in terms of, and I guess I've talked about it before, but like just to give people an idea, again, how close the breweries are, like I was sat in Buckethees yesterday and i was like checking why where they were. And I think I said...
00:23:24
Speaker
from where I was sat sort of midway down the bar, the freshwater was 72 meters away, yeah you know, and then like, and you you must be about the same distance if that across the road. You could you could throw a tennis ball to your next venue.
00:23:36
Speaker
That's the easiest way to explain it. Yeah. yeah and and is And is that, how does that work? You know, ah to people are there people, locals who have a favorite they always go to or are people quite egalitarian, you know, in in their approach? We reckon bit of both.
00:23:49
Speaker
Yeah, i reckon so. Like, I think, it you know, it's It makes it easier, you know, you're not... And there's always the FOMO, right? So if, like, there are a group of people in here, they're having a good time, they do get a bit twitchy after a couple of years and go, i wonder what else is happening. So does it does mean you get that little bit of rotation, but then you do have the kind of familiar faces that come in, um...
00:24:14
Speaker
but i think I think it's one of those things that's better together, particularly because it's so close. yeah um and And also, it just makes, don't know, it makes the um experience more interesting because we've all, part of the reason why we kind of formed a collective is that If we all know what each other's up to, then we can kind of offer something alternative.
00:24:37
Speaker
yeah So consumer wins, right? As a, like, as a fricking beer frother myself, like there's nowhere better to to go because you can kind go from A to B to C and know that it's all going to be different.
00:24:49
Speaker
yeah Like the spaces A look different. The, you know, the take on things is very different. And so it's great. Yeah. And I think the community angle on seeing that,
00:25:01
Speaker
Hey Johnny, I ran out of salt. Can I borrow it? I ran out of hops. I ran out of... When they see that we're actively working together, if I'm to look at a competitor though that might be like Manly, which is an unbelievable visitation suburb, has beautiful waters on both sides,
00:25:16
Speaker
There's no way they're doing that with each other. know what I mean? Like we can we can do that because we're all small indie guys. yeah We're all working together to make sure that our business run harmoniously. Johnny's like, give them a bag of sugar and don't tell them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What happened to my margarita?
00:25:32
Speaker
Dave from Dad and Dave's, he is a genuine hero. He's saved up. But, you know, he's got so many irons in the fire doing all sorts of amazing stuff and like,
00:25:44
Speaker
If we don't have a specific like specialty malt on hand, it hasn't arrived. yeah has't goingnna arrive yeah Dave's the first person we go to. And that's the kind of thing. And he openly says, like, even when we were, you know, when you're setting up a brewery and your forklift breaks down.
00:26:01
Speaker
yeah Fortunately, there's enough people that you can go to that might have a forklift over the road. Which model do I like the best out of all my mates forklift? Or just yeah advice. And that's the good thing about it is that there's an open line of communication.
00:26:15
Speaker
and And Johnny and I, especially over the last year, we get to bump heads really, really good and ask ourselves some challenging questions about business. And it's not our... I'm going to lose patronage if I get some advice off Johnny or or vice versa.
00:26:29
Speaker
It's just the prosper prosperity of the suburb. That's the way we look at it. Yeah, that's great. And it so stepping back a bit, how do you sort of view the role of beer tourism in the beer industry now, especially that sort changed landscape?
00:26:40
Speaker
Because I think there was a lot of talk about it sort of pre-COVID. And like when we did, when he sprung the Beer Week, we were already pushing. there was a lot of visitation from overseas, especially New you know yeah um new Zealand and whatever. And I guess it was an obvious pause.
00:26:52
Speaker
And do you think that's a way it's cut? you know an important tool i guess to bring people back into the beer industry yeah absolutely i i think i mean you know this is where we're all it's quite easy to just get stuck in your bubble and it's quite easy just to sort of go all right well if we can communicate to this demographic that lives this close um then we can you know get going but as well as that helps you sort of think a bit differently instead of going oh well let's just get our offering right it's like Who are we actually really trying to bring in? There's a beach called Manly just over there. It's quite good one. yeah they go a lot of yeah right And the number of hotels, Airbnbs, and we're only we and that's part why the Brookie Trail is useful is because you at least you've got something tangible that you can say to one of these big hotels.
00:27:41
Speaker
Don't push people to go to the Hunter Valley. Come here. Yeah. i'm not And yeah. And, and that, and you know, we're speaking to destination, New South Wales with, you know, i trying to get better relationship, know, just getting on Sydney.com. They, those sort of things, as you know, there are heaps of hits, um, that, you know, we're five minutes from, you know, an Uber from Manly.
00:28:03
Speaker
There's a, sorry. Ship time.
00:28:08
Speaker
yes she but time yeah but yeah We realize gonna be big yeah we realized that there is a bit of a bigger purpose now about the suburb. yeah And to think that we have a bit of a hand in that, but I'm chuffed.
00:28:23
Speaker
That's cool. To think five years from now, um There might be three times as many people that come and visit Brookvale and I'll get to have a beer with Johnny and go, oh man, look what we've done. we were kind of a part of that.
00:28:36
Speaker
yeah Like we used to be the little skate rats that just used to come and skate in the car park here 20 years ago. And look what this suburb is becoming. We can we can see it. We've got to keep our eyes on the prize and and it's a slow burn. Yeah.
00:28:48
Speaker
But the suburb is indeed amplifying, for sure. I had this question before the break saying, why should beer lovers, whether from Sydney or further afield, come to Brookvale? But I guess that the entire past 15, 20 minutes has been, if you had one reason say someone, you should come to the Brookie Trail because...
00:29:07
Speaker
I mean, think in the name of that kind of best of both worlds thing is that if you're somebody that is skeptical about crossing the bridge and coming this far and you live in Marrickville and go, I've got heaps of beers here. Why would I bother? It's like make a day of it. Go for a swim, go for a surf.
00:29:25
Speaker
And then you've got any style of beer you want available. You know, like you can discover. What's the latest bus back to the city? Or how much is Uber? um How much do I now i don't want to say own for Ubering the year? The B line is what?
00:29:40
Speaker
Less like 500 meters just there. 1230. This road essentially. And 1230. 1230. And we shout 12. Perfect. mean, come on. How good? i mean come on yeah how good it's it's I can appreciate it's a hard sell because it's a hard sell the other way around. course.
00:29:54
Speaker
Like to put it in your calendar and say to your mates, hey, we're going to do an Inner West day. it takes a bit of work to get organized. But it probably feels like a bit of a holiday. rarely sort of go out to the, you know, Footscray, and but Melbourne's West. When you do, you gather a few people and you go and do, you visit Hop Nation, visit, you know, few places while you're over there. And it's oh, I've had a little...
00:30:14
Speaker
with a day out, a bit of a holiday, you know? so I love dancing in West. yeah I think because we go that way a lot more, there's a lot of people obviously that commute into the city. um Not a lot of people go the other way. And so it's just, you know, psychologically, but... Is that like a bit of a campaign, you know, make a day of it you know, cross the bridge.
00:30:33
Speaker
This is the times that the spit go up. So just avoid this 10 minutes. This is a Brookie trail meeting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, exactly. you know no i take a note i'm not I'm not here to consult. taking notes. Yeah, exactly.
00:30:44
Speaker
yeah um Awesome. Now, I'd love go back and hear a bit more about the two breweries that you work for as well. oh wait I am involved with, so we'll take a quick break now and then we'll come back and chat about Freshie and Stephen Gray.
00:31:01
Speaker
We're back with Steve Hendo Henderson, founder of the Rockstar Brewer Academy, ah for another chat. Hendo, welcome back, mate. It's great to see you, Craig. How are you doing I'm good. I'm good. Now, we've spent a bit of time over the last few weeks talking about the Rockstar Brewer Academy and how ah your your coaching, your community can help brewers brew better beer, save time, save money.
00:31:24
Speaker
um I'd love to talk about if you've got a few different examples of – of breweries who've who've come into the the program or the community with, you know, maybe a specific problem, maybe an objective they're looking to reach um and how how you've gone about that, how it's panned out.
00:31:43
Speaker
Have you got anything in mind? Yeah, probably a good one for this week is to talk about a client who had gone through the beer Quality Bootcamp Foundation program, had nailed the quality aspect of things, but then started to look at the efficiency and optimisation and cost saving things. How does that sound?
00:32:00
Speaker
Perfect, yeah. Yeah, awesome. So um Mario, he's from um Ecuador, right? And he runs a brewery called Odysseo Brewery.
00:32:11
Speaker
And he's a longtime client. He went through ah the the foundation program, Beer Quality Boot Camp, was was blown away by the the the content there that just took his beer to the next level.
00:32:25
Speaker
But then you get to the point after you've done that when you go, well, what's next? And in the current economic climate, obviously it's going to be about cost reduction and efficiency and optimising your brewery.
00:32:37
Speaker
And so once you finish Beer Quality Boot Camp, you actually go into level two, which is called the Brewery Optimisation Accelerator. And what that does is it... it puts in all of the things that help you to save time, save money, or put money in your till, right? So to give you a couple examples of the things that Mario did, first thing he did was a module we've got in there called Formulate a Killer Flagship Lager.
00:33:05
Speaker
right So he went from um you know um he's his IPA being his biggest seller and wasn't doing great volume, implementing formulated killer flagship lager to his lager almost doubling his volume um because it was the beer that his drinkers wanted to drink.
00:33:23
Speaker
So the next thing that Mario did was um ah because he had a lager as his highest volume skew in his brewery, Lucky yeast is really expensive, right? And so he was spending about $15 per 50 litre keg just on yeast, okay?
00:33:43
Speaker
And I said, well, have you thought about re-pitching yeast? And he said, well, no, I don't really feel confident about that because I don't know how to do it and I don't want to cross-contaminate my beer and put my business at risk. And I said, well, okay, come and have a look at, and so we've weve you know we've got a few modules on yeast husbandry and yeast pitching re-pitching.
00:34:02
Speaker
And so he went and implemented those things. So his yeast costs, all right, so what he was doing was using dry yeast, single pitch, and then dumping the yeast. We implemented a few yeast husbandry modules, and he is now able to confidently re-pitch yeast about six generations, six cycles. I prefer to use the word cycles than generations.
00:34:24
Speaker
So his yeast costs have gone from $15 per keg to 40 cents. Wow. Amazing. that is That is a huge savings. and it sounds I know it sounds too to be true, but that's the reality of it. If you're a brewer who is getting a brick of of yeast and you're putting it in a tank and you're throwing that yeast out, you're literally putting money down the drain.
00:34:46
Speaker
That to me is worth the price of admission right there. I mean, you're exactly right. it's It's tough times out there. And, you know, at the end of the day, beer is a fast-moving consumer good where margins are very, very slim on on every element. so if you can save a few dollars on on each item there, then, you yeah, you're in you winning. I guess, did their journey continue or do you have another example there around improvements?
00:35:10
Speaker
Exactly. So what Mario did, so Mario ah pretty much most of his business is in his brew pub, right? and which is where most of his revenue comes from. And so after he tackled yeast husbandry and cutting costs there, then it was about putting money in his till, right?
00:35:28
Speaker
And so we have a module in the brew optimization accelerator called Maximize Brewhouse Efficiency. So without changing any process, apart from looking at malt and grist analysis and and and tracking brew house efficiency,
00:35:45
Speaker
With the same amount of raw materials on his 10 hectolitre brew house, he was going from 900 litres wort 1300 litres of wort, right?
00:35:55
Speaker
um into the tank and they still fit in the tank, right? And so what that basically means is that, let's let's assume that you're an Australian brewer, right? And you're paying Aussie beer prices, okay, in your tap room.
00:36:08
Speaker
That's about three to $5,000 of revenue per brew, per turn, right? which is money that's just being left on the table. And it was so easy to implement as well. He spent, I think it was about $80 on a set of grist sibs and and and looking at the mill gap and checking a few other things in the brewery.
00:36:32
Speaker
And all of a sudden, he's the amount of wort and therefore beer that he was producing without additional effort skyrocketed. Amazing. And, you know, I think um a lot of taproom owners and operators and hospitality, you know, there's a focus on the venue is like the venue has to make money, the brewery has to make money, but really for the venue to make money, you've got to have your brewery operating efficiently.
00:36:58
Speaker
Hendo, thank you so much for these sessions. I'm excited about it. If I was a professional brewer, booking in one of those calls with you straight away. um If you are a professional brewer or even you know just interested in taking that journey to professional brewing, i give Hendo a call. I cannot recommend it more highly.
00:37:17
Speaker
um
Rockstar Brewer Academy Introduction
00:37:18
Speaker
You can book in a free 15-minute calibration call, not a sales chat. Just see if you're a good fit for each other. Just visit rockstarbrewer.com. ah forward slash calibration. Hendo, thank you very much for this this session. It's been great. Thanks, Craig. Thanks for having me.
00:37:38
Speaker
right, welcome back, guys. A bit about you the two breweries. So, I mean, Joel, start with you. You're the GM at Seventh Day. yeah you tell us like how and why Seventh Day first came Brookvale? I've been involved with Seventh Day for two years yeah as GM.
00:37:52
Speaker
And previous to that, I'd worked corporate hospo for the better part of almost 20 years. yeah ah Seventh Day brewery was a bunch of Correct me if I'm wrong, you might not know.
00:38:05
Speaker
School dads and mums from Curly Primary possibly, who about seven years ago decided that they wanted to chance their arm at opening a brewery. And I guess at that stage who would have been Four Pines, Nomad, Dad and Dave would have been around at that stage. Yeah, that was the only ones.
00:38:22
Speaker
ah Mike, who had a production background, had been learning with Four Pines how to brew beer and all the sides on that. And so they all came together, but put some money together and and opened pre-COVID and pretty much COVID kicked in straight away. yeah So it's been...
00:38:41
Speaker
uh, tumultuous, that's the right word, uh, seven years. the last two years that I've been involved, I probably wanted to tell the guys that, Hey, you're not a medium sized business. We're small. Okay. So we need to, so we need to think small. Yeah.
00:38:57
Speaker
and we need to juggle a lot of hats yeah and the same person who does rosters needs to clean toilets and serve beers and work weekends. And just like we need to think small, like like the tomato analogy in your fridge. You don't want your tomatoes to so run dead. So if they're getting there, you put it in a pasta. Like we're just like trying to think like we're really small yeah and maybe don't think towards trying to become medium in the next five to 10 years. yeah Let's just be a really small, punchy, profitable business. yeah yeah So kind of that's where we are. The key being profitable. Yeah, 100%.
00:39:27
Speaker
Everyone who's listening to this podcast and CraftyPont knows a lot about what's happening in the industry and especially medium-sized businesses. We want to be small. We want to be punchy. We want to be making money.
00:39:38
Speaker
We want to be a part of the small industry. We want to think small and shop small and all of us want to do the same same thing that way. ah What do we offer at Seventh-day?
00:39:50
Speaker
We're really, really leaning into live music. yeah That's been a big part of the last couple of years. live music on the Northern beaches is so historic and so many good bands have come out.
00:40:01
Speaker
um So we just want to foster that a little bit and just have some fun with it. And if the bands are a bit shit, so what? Let's just have fun with It's only one night. If the sound isn't so good, who cares? Let's just put these guys on. Let's have some fun with it. Let's have some theater around it.
00:40:15
Speaker
ah The beer side of things. I know Mike was always big on the Pilsner at the start. Exactly. And he still is. Yeah, Pilsner and Lager are by far our best tap sellers by a country mile.
00:40:28
Speaker
Everything on the ale, sour, all differential types of beers is there because it serves a purpose. I like all those kind of lower alcohol weird beers yeah and and there's a lot of punters that do. But I still think your everyday brookie local It's coming in for a lager and there's heaps of good lagers in Brookvale. Every single venue has a as a killer lager or Pilsnall.
00:40:50
Speaker
yeah um Which I guess is a fairly good segue to you, Johnny, given Freshwater probably makes 80 or 90% of its beers be lager. I first met you when you were doing marketing at Modus, sort of up the road.
00:41:04
Speaker
So sort of, I guess, what brought you there and then what led you and some of your other Modus colleagues to decide to go out on your own? Yeah, so um yeah, i was my background's marketing.
00:41:16
Speaker
um It's funny because it's the bit that I'm useless at right now, but um yeah no time. But yeah, I was a massive beer frother, home brewer.
00:41:27
Speaker
um Just I'd worked on, done the heaps of brand stuff for bigger people. So like they've done lots of things like tiger beer and pilsner urkel and um or yeah some stuff here as well um with lion and you know it was i love i love it i love the the marketing side of things but the thing that you find drives you bit mad is the length of time to go from problem to solution and was just nice just to get closer to
00:41:58
Speaker
um closer to the action, you know, there's a number of, you can work in a marketing job and never step foot in a brewery, you know, it's kind of just sell the liquid, you know, rather than sell the everything else. So yeah, was working up there in Monovel, like right at the point where
Freshwater Brewing's Market Strategy
00:42:16
Speaker
craft beer was really kicking off, like, you know, from a marketing point of view, it was more like,
00:42:21
Speaker
is Here's this beer, come and buy Here's this epic beer, you want it? And then people... And, you know, it was kind of pretty, you know, marketing's a lot easier when you've got a good product to sell. um And so, yeah, and formed some really, really tight relationships with some...
00:42:38
Speaker
awesome people that I'm still, you know, they're now dispersed around and the beer scene of Australia and we're still all really tight knit group of people. And along that way, i was really, yeah i was really leaning into lagers from homebrew point of view. And like, I'd bring in my beers to my, the brew crew and they were bringing in their beers and we were kind of checking checking different recipes and it was just kind of fun. And, um,
00:43:07
Speaker
the We were drinking them a lot of time in Freshie. And so, you know, it was like... And Freshie is like one suburb across? Yeah, it's just like 500 metres. There's this bit of a habit in Brookvale, isn't there, of naming your brewery not after Brookvale. There's actually a Brookvale brewing. It's all like, which is our favourite suburb around Yeah, there Brookvale brewery, but it's like, it's a heritage brand now. But yeah, so...
00:43:28
Speaker
Obviously we tried to get to fresh eat, but the way it came about was it was, I was just cracking beers, trying new, you know, was either at the time it was either lagers or Saison's and it was like, no Australians aren't going to drink Saison's. They don't really drink Pilsen's either, but anyway. Unless it's called a lager. Yeah, exactly. Or an expo. But yeah, we were just cracking that. The name originally was just a holding name. It was like coming to Freshie Breweries. Kind of like a bit of a joke. And then, you know, when you start kind of going, okay, what is this thing in your mind?
00:44:04
Speaker
It's focusing on beers that are crisp and sessionable post surf, post swim with community, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And then you sit down on a chat, some local designers and went, here's, here's the name, but you know, riff on it. And they were like, that's a pretty good name.
00:44:21
Speaker
So we just stuck. And like, I think the thing is, is once you put in that a suburb as the name, you've got to own it. You kind of can't half-ass it. And so. That's where the community side of it comes in. And then from. And who are the other two modus, ex-modus founders then? um Yeah, they'll probably be annoyed with me that I haven't mentioned them, but yeah. right That's not getting you out of trouble. Thank you. So Brett Phillips, he's an eye head brewer. He's a gun, absolute weapon. He basically operates single-handedly.
00:44:54
Speaker
Took took your some of your lager recipes went, it's right, Johnny, leave it with me. Basically, yeah. I'll always try do it. Thanks for the B-sides. Yeah, exactly. No, he did. He's absolutely killed it. And so, um'm yeah, Brett's our head brewer. um And then Tom Bruce is our kind of head of sales. He started off as like head of venue and then that guy can, he can talk. So he um he stepped out from stand out and he's now our head of sales and kind of,
00:45:20
Speaker
You know i think the beauty of knowing, we've all known each other for so many years, there's small businesses, like there's not really that clear delineation between you do this and you do this. You kind of all get in and muck in and get stuff done and like, I don't know what my role is. Everyone does the shit work. Yeah. yeah yeah Are you cleaning the toilets here as well?
00:45:39
Speaker
I have done. and I know. I know. We will again. When Freshie opened, ah the hype behind it was enormous and I wasn't working in Brookvale yet.
00:45:50
Speaker
And I came here with my girlfriend and a bunch of mates and we were just like, yes, this is like somewhere different. Yeah, just the whole vibe, the beers, the color. And it's just, it was willing to take a different avenue yeah in an otherwise really rough around the edges suburb. No, this is the angle we're going go. And that's the thing is like when you when you're the first in the area a a long time ago, if you're if you're kind of nomad or dad and dad, whereas we were like, we're walking into an area that's pretty established.
00:46:25
Speaker
So we have to be different. And I've dragged my wife and mates around some breweries over the years. And I was like, got to get the toilets right because my wife won't come back. So it's like get that stuff right, but then also just stand for something that we are and like that's where we've really leaned into the lager.
00:46:43
Speaker
Like I say grain to glass and it's a bit cheesy, but it's like every step of the way i we have the kind of, you the horizontal tanks tapped into the luca, you know, it's kind of looked full full gamut of making sure that if we're going to do it, going to it properly. um And yeah.
00:47:02
Speaker
And the juice don't lie. The beer is epic. i mean And the reality is is it is, it is an education thing. It's like when you're talking to people about six Pilsners on tap, like that's you've got train your staff to explain the differences. But you know we've got to stand for something. the world is There's enough breweries certainly in Brookville, but in Australia where you can, as I say, you can get whatever whatever whatever you want.
00:47:26
Speaker
um And so we have people that come in and go, hey, I want to, ah you know, oat cream IPA. And we'll say, awesome. We don't do you that. Head across the road. Head across the road. And that's awesome.
00:47:38
Speaker
And what are we drinking here today? drinking Wilbur's Shandy. Where's the camera? Nice little midstream. Quick plug. I know very little about this, but Wilbur's is a sandwich shop in Manly. And ah he is one of the most hustling little hospo professionals in the area.
00:47:55
Speaker
What's his name? ah Rob, otherwise known as Wombat. Little rob Rob. And it's just a reflection of what the suburb is all about, like doing collabs with other small businesses, yeah coming up with cool ideas, having some kind of word around and and story around the stuff that you do.
00:48:12
Speaker
Ah, that's a sip, yeah. And in terms of like the color palette you've gone for here as well, like on that sort of Cali, you know, beach vibe kind of thing you got with the murals, like where did that come from? Is that from within the team or did you bring someone in to, you know, put that together?
00:48:27
Speaker
So, yeah, like I'm a um a pretty average graphic designer and and so… Better or worse than your marketing? Terrible, both of them.
00:48:37
Speaker
Yeah, I had to get another job. Anyway, so um i was I had a pretty clear vision and when we were chatting to the team, it was like we wanted to have these kind of pastel colors and be really approachable.
00:48:49
Speaker
and you know, be very beachy, but also just be like gender agnostic, like just so say, you are coming here and you know, we've got a pink bar and that's signaling on purpose.
00:49:00
Speaker
um And the thing is, is like, I don't know, coming into International Women's Day, you kind of go, when did beer get labeled a man's drink? Like, that's just, I mean, there's a lot of evidence as to when it's mainly marketing, but we were like,
00:49:14
Speaker
we are, as a bunch of small businesses, we are all welcome to everyone. yeah And that was, we kind of wanted to do a bit of subtle signaling of this is what we are. And like the colors and the palette is just positive, optimistic, you know, an alternative. And and that goes through all our decals and cans. And, you know, we've got pink can here, funnily enough. um And we just, you know, we, that's... female um um kinda We wanted it to look like beer, but slightly not. um Again, because you want to stand out on shelf. It all hopefully ties in. It has a beautiful and distinctive feel. Are you going to into what else was it like? I was going to say what you were saying before about how you got a few more years under about Seventh Day.
00:49:59
Speaker
When were saying how you sort of came in and said to the team, look, we need need to think of it smaller. ah is it Has there been that sort need to keep evolving, whether it's the beers or just the offering or the brand or whatever to stay relevant?
00:50:09
Speaker
Yeah. Every week, every Monday, it's almost like a blank sheet of A4 comes out. yeah And like, how can we approve each other up this very week? How can we get more punters down this Saturday to come and experience something new in Brookvale? Yeah.
00:50:23
Speaker
So we never want to think we're on top of our game. We want to start every single week fresh. Let's go a hundred miles an hour. ah What have we changed in venue?
00:50:34
Speaker
I've spent a lot of time on decor and it's something that I have previously been really interested in just at home, but I didn't really realize that it'd be really important in a venue. yeah We were admiring all the the bits and pieces around the shelving on the walls. yeah Like the joke is like that we're kind of like a galleria.
00:50:50
Speaker
And if you come in every two weeks, Johnny says it, he's always, I'm always interested to see what new shit you got on the wall. We just have some fun with it. I have a work from home day on a Thursday and I have my little one-year-old.
00:51:02
Speaker
So it's kind of fun that I just throw him on the little bag and we go to the charity shops and find some funny stuff that's going to become part of the aesthetic at Seventh Day Brewery. yeah I remember went before the GB, which was this iconic Richmond hotel in in Melbourne, the rent was hiked and they moved down the road to different place.
00:51:18
Speaker
It'd been there maybe 16, 17 years. And you go in there and you it felt like this organic being that had a like a life of its own. And like only there's like the staff or the regulars had been there for a long time could tell you when a certain thing had gone on the wall yeahs how that happened. But you still go in and and even as a relative newcomer to it, you'd be like, this just feels like a living beast that has its own personality beyond like being...
00:51:40
Speaker
a bar with walls and a yeah roof. It's like, it's beyond the people and it's actually, it's got something to Yeah. And I always liked kind of vintage surfboards and vintage clothes and fashion and all that kind of stuff. I never thought of it. I never thought of it from an ethical point of view. yeah i just thought that it was cool and I was into that kind of stuff.
00:52:00
Speaker
And now I'm kind of like, oh, it's also ethical. yeah I can buy vintage t-shirts and get them printed and it's a good it's a good story as well. So a lot of the junk that we've bought in-house is just all repurposed stuff. yeah And you're right. People come in and they're like, oh, like a couple of weeks ago, ah lady came in and she was like, oh, I believe that you have a couch from my granddad who passed away here. And I was like, yeah, off marketplace. And she's like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:52:29
Speaker
Oh, there it is. It's over there. She came over and sat down on it. He wasn't on the couch. No, he picked it up. I don't think so. We never wash the couch, so we probably should. Yeah.
00:52:40
Speaker
But no, so yeah, it becomes, it's very noticeable. We stood at the bar. what, before we went outside for five minutes, so you can't stop looking around and sort of taking in. Yeah. Even if you can't work out what some of the stuff it still looks interesting. The cohesion isn't there. It's just like shit that we like. we think we laugh. I think from an outsider's point of view, I think you kind of know what you walk into.
00:53:01
Speaker
Yeah. I think you've got, you've like, you are curating. Yeah, we're we're trying to show a bit of vulnerability in our own taste as well. It's clear that you Yeah. like we're like this ah We're into this shit. Are you guys into this shit? Oh, cool. like this is We're into this kind of music as well. like We're into surfing as well. you into surfing? Oh, cool. You'll probably like our place. Yeah, nice. Before we get to my the past, present, future trio of questions I'd like to finish with, just if people are listening or watching from somewhere else in Australia, how far How far and wide do you sell your beers? Are you mostly just Sydney brands in terms of like distro?
00:53:34
Speaker
And do you have an online store if people want to sort of get beers elsewhere? like Or do you have a bit of you know wider distro in your beers? I think going back to what Joel was saying, it's all about profitability.
00:53:47
Speaker
And I think like when it comes down to it, what we are... 2024 was a bit of a weird year and you know, people had less money in their pocket. And so we spent a bit of time kind of figuring out where we were. So we've definitely gone way more local.
00:54:02
Speaker
Can's a hard yakko. It's hard to make money on a can. Everyone knows it Yeah. but But also like, what do you stand for as well? And I think that's the thing is like, we are all pretty, pretty local.
00:54:12
Speaker
breweries and so we barely see us over the bridge like we all like North Shore and um, Northern beaches is kind of our thing. Um, 98% I'd say. And then we do a thing, you know, beer cartel here and there, but pretty much, um, or like a tap takeover, like you know, but it pretty much it's, we're on, we're over here. And I think that with this many breweries around,
00:54:39
Speaker
um I think also not knowing what every year looks like. At least if you're consolidated, and you know, and there's room to grow. Yeah. it's It's kind of interesting. Like you try and flog beer to Manly, but they're kind of like, well, if I tell people that the beer's from Brookvale, they might go and drink in Brookvale next time. So Manly's a tricky, a really tricky one to You have to stick Manly if if you're going to further. Anywhere in between, kind of like North Shore, Mossman, that's that's a little bit closer towards Inner West. Yeah.
00:55:06
Speaker
There's a little hotspot in there. Yeah, yeah. Once you start getting over to the inner west, there's a little bit of like, oh no, I'm down with the inner west beer. And we totally get that. And Johnny and I haven't even touched on the whole, which your podcast has has nailed really, really hard. The whole tap percentages of trying to flog beer to a place that has one beer out of 20 on tap.
00:55:26
Speaker
And a hundred local breweries trying to get that one tap. you know and Someone's probably going in at $200 a keg and like, ah, there's... um There's a really good thing on Facebook the other day. is that is it is it Andy who just opened a bar in New York?
00:55:40
Speaker
Hamish and Andy? And then the the slogan was like, ah Australian bar in New York with only Australian beers. Yeah. And there were no Australian.
00:55:52
Speaker
It's all Japanese. and It was all Japanese. Coopers, thankfully, in the photo, he was holding a bottle of Coopers in the bottle. And was like, yeah, right on. ah It is insanely hard for us with 5% indie tap share to try and get a tap.
00:56:09
Speaker
It's like, hey, Johnny, you're number 16 at our pub. See you in six months. Hey, Joel, seventh day is number 20. Yeah, pop back next year yeah and you can have one tap on, one keg on and then it gets rotated. but Yeah, I mean, I think it's like any problem. Like we are small businesses hustling and, you know, coming up with new ideas for the venue, coming up with new ideas for how do you get beer in hand.
00:56:34
Speaker
hoping that your beer is good enough that people want to seek it out and ask for it. um And I think, um you know, that's where we can do collaborate together, do tap takeovers together and all that kind of stuff. So, yeah. ah To answer your question at the start, where do we distribute? We have this far more absolute legend of a wholesale manager, Parco, who absolutely loves you guys. And he is a one man army.
00:57:01
Speaker
He even dropped some samples to Benny in Newcastle because he was up there the day and knew that Benny was house sitting in Newcastle. he went to visit the house, he was house sitting and go, here's our latest limited release. He basically just distributes to really good surf spots, I figured out. So he just throws his surfboard in the van and he's like, yeah, I've got to duck up to Newy on Tuesday, checking Swellnet. Oh yeah, ill I'll be back in two days. To be fair, Newcastle is a great city for beer.
00:57:28
Speaker
like Amazing. turn like um That's probably the only other place that we distribute to. because yes so we're But otherwise, if you're further afield, jump online. and yeah Newcastle, Sunny Coast, Wollongong, Sydney Metro.
00:57:41
Speaker
yeah hey Excellent. Well, I guess we'll get to the... I kind of feel we may have the answer to the the hope or dream for beer in Australia. but on this with the tap and the what is Australian beer thing. Anyway, I'll see what you come up with. So first, the one thing that either of you wish you'd know, this probably meant more for Johnny, the one thing you wish you'd known when you started Freshie,
00:58:04
Speaker
So many things. I think the thing is like what I was saying in terms of like right sizing, I think, you know, you don't know what every year is thrown. Like we opened, we were contract brewing out of like White Bay and place like that.
00:58:20
Speaker
um Just as the second Sydney lockdown came in. That was a pretty brutal one. You kind of can't factor that in. Right. And then, and then we had, This place took forever to open up because we had these crazy rains and we had to spend 60 grand putting in pumps. Like, how do you know that's going to happen? now there's When you open up a small business of any sort, you got to have your model really, really tight. And it's quite hard in this yeah market that keeps going up and down.
00:58:49
Speaker
um So I think it's the the advice is, and the thing I wish I'd known is, is probably like A, the best thing is having the right people around you.
00:59:01
Speaker
Like Tom, Brett and I have been, and the and the wider team, like we've got a great team and ah through the ins and outs, like you do really have to push through, but I think probably
00:59:14
Speaker
I wish I'd known a bit more about velocity of cash flow. gives that some but That could almost be like a Krautrock album, I reckon. Velocity of cash flow, I reckon. Yeah. it is If you've got a lot of people not paying you, then it's kind of, oh, I'm not aware it. It's hard yak on. Yeah. And that doesn't work. And then the flip side of that, and there's businesses, you know, like, hey, we work for a creditor. done now This is what we'll charge. We'll get these people to pay their bills.
00:59:40
Speaker
So, yeah, there's a, and that's no... That's not fun shit to bury us in jail. No one's really interested in that stuff. But if you've got 50 grand worth of bills that need paying, that sucks as well, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:59:53
Speaker
And what about, let's give it to both you, the one piece of advice you'd have for anyone getting into bee a brewing now, be you know one thing you should be aware of. Like, like i'm I'm not an owner, i'm ah I'm a worker. So I do feel like- You're saying owners don't work.
01:00:09
Speaker
No, I'm about to say that owners work too much. So I feel like i can switch off sometimes. Be prepared, but that work-life balance that that might not really exist, yeah that you just that you're checking your emails when you're sitting on the toilet and you're like, you're just going to be busy. um which I'm watching my inbox count go up. Exactly. I'll deal with that tomorrow when I get back to Melbourne. and And I reckon in small industry, you should have the confidence to pivot.
01:00:40
Speaker
And if you've done something stupid that might have been on your socials and you believed in this a year ago, yeah but now you've grown it as an individual and you think, okay, actually believe in this now. yes i Just pivot. That's cool. So what? yeah Show that you were wrong a year ago and be willing to go, okay, well, I'm going with this now. I've i've adapted as a human and and as a manager.
01:00:57
Speaker
yeah Yeah, that would be my words of wisdom. Fair enough. All right. And then the one hope, iage both of you for this one, your one hope or dream to be in Australia. If you could have one thing that you could change or season or that would definitely happen. No, if you, if you, it's easy, hit the, say it.
01:01:13
Speaker
Contracts. Get rid of the contracts. I'm not going to call you guys out name by name, but. Come on, like it's bullshit. yeah Like you should just be able to buy whatever beer you want.
01:01:26
Speaker
And it shouldn't be like, this is the contract. I've been on the other side and hey, have free tickets to the footy. Hey, have these umbrellas. Hey, have these t-shirts, have these hats. All you need to do is just have all your taps with us. hey It sucks.
01:01:40
Speaker
yeah It sucks. And obviously I work in Indy now, so I'm i'm pledged to Indy. But our customers should just be able to drink whatever they want to drink. And the marketing campaigns that the big dogs do are so clever yeah with their Cobra hats and their Hills hoists in the background.
01:01:59
Speaker
and And that's all finally, but it's a fair battle then if it is down to marketing and liquid and whatever. i think someone put a comment on it, but one of the stories we did a while ago about, oh yeah, but you guys, you know you're only this center of the market, blah, blah, blah. Anyway, i maybe you should make beer and people want us to drink. i think Mazen jumped on and went, it's amazing.
01:02:15
Speaker
If people actually had a fair choice, I guarantee that would we would have more than 6% or 7% or 8% of the market. You I mean? We would definitely have more of the market if it if it was a fair fight. So you can go, oh, you're only, you know, only 6% or 7% of people are drinking you beers anyway. So whatever it's like, yes, that's bo because...
01:02:32
Speaker
We're not allowed to have the access to everybody else. The analogy I use just in my normal life, when I go for a coffee in the morning, I know the guy's name. I know that he gets the money for my coffee. yeah When I go to do groceries, I go to an independent independent place first and I shop and I pay with cash yeah and whatever money I have left or whatever I can't get, if I can't get feta from there or pasta from there, then I go to Woolies or Coles.
01:02:55
Speaker
That whole think small, consume small mentality. yeah How can we apply that to pubs, bars, breweries, dining experiences? yeah Free the taps. Free the tubs. That's on a t-shirt campaign. Free of the tubs. That wouldn't surprise me, mate. all um free Free local beer. not free local beer. my my kind of My hope um is more around beer as a category.
01:03:21
Speaker
i think um I think beer at the category as a category is getting attacked from every angle, whether it be seltzers, ginger beers, hard whatever is hard lemonade i think actually month there is nothing better than a cold beer fact that's just a fact we all know that but uh and so rather than trying to water down your offering and rather than kind of go well we can be this too and we can be that as well sure if you can if you're lucky if your first move is advantage and you happen to do it fast and well great but most people
01:03:55
Speaker
aren't set up that way. yeah So I think that personally, the main thing is around promoting what's great about beer. And I think that's the main thing is like, you know, we've got all these places where somebody comes in and you know, you get, you always get the person that goes, Oh, I don't like beer. And you go, let me see if I can change your mind. And you can't always, but I think really what beer should be doing is being a little bit more like not like a bit but but bit more proactively pushing beer as whole this. Yeah. Like the wine. Sure, you can get bogged down in who owns your beer. Absolutely.
01:04:28
Speaker
um And that is a massive thing, but ultimately it's, I would rather somebody is drinking a beer. I don't really care about the ownership structure. Like I think actually when it comes down to it, if i if if in five years time you're going to a barbecue and you're the only person holding a beer,
01:04:45
Speaker
It's not a good position to be. Yeah, lots of hard solos, hard ginger beers. I think it's extreme, but I think ultimately it's like, i would love to do a proper category ad where it was like, you know, and everyone goes, yeah, no logo. Don't forget to drink your next barbecue. Frothy head, you know, like that's,
01:05:05
Speaker
My thing is like beer needs to just be positively talking about beer. Have a pool for you to have a percentage of. Yeah, exactly. Because you know that people like sweet alcoholic drinks when younger. You know that there's people that are, you're going to get attacked from every angle where there's also a lot of people, millions of people that hard-earn first, right? Yeah. So yeah, that's my thing. Well, I think it's pretty good conclusion. Drink beer.
01:05:30
Speaker
I've been saying for you. Responsively drink beer. Yeah, yeah.
01:05:37
Speaker
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01:05:48
Speaker
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01:06:00
Speaker
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01:06:21
Speaker
Find OPM Design on the Crafty Pint business directory or hit them up at opmdesign.com.au. And now, back to the podcast.
01:06:35
Speaker
The Crafty Pint podcast is produced and edited by Matt Hoffman. You can get all your beer-related news and reviews on the Crafty Pint website, craftypint.com, and can stay up to date on future podcast episodes our socials.
01:06:49
Speaker
We wouldn't be able to produce the podcast or the website, events or festivals we run without the support to the beer industry, whether that's suppliers, bars, breweries or bottle shops. If you'd like to support the show or partner with The Crafty Pine in other ways, please reach out to Craig via the details in the show notes.
01:07:05
Speaker
And if you're a beer lover who'd like to support what we do, you can join our exclusive club for beer lovers, The Crafty Cabal. Visit craftycabal.com for more. And until next time, drink good beer.
01:07:20
Speaker
you