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Spider-Man Clone Saga: Exiled
27 Plays9 months ago
Corinne explains the Clone Saga storyline "Exiled" to Derek.
Comics covered are:
Web of Spider-Man #128
Amazing Spider-Man #405
Spider-Man #62
Spider-Man Unlimited #10
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Transcript
Introduction to Comically Pedantic Podcast
00:00:14
Speaker
Hi, how you doing? Welcome to Comically Pedantic, where we take a detailed look at the complicated concepts, the characters, and history of comic book culture. It's me, my name's Corinne. I've been on this podcast before. I co-host. Who do I co-host with? I co-host with Derek L. Chase. Hi, Derek, how you doing?
00:00:36
Speaker
Hello. How's life? How's the past week been? What's your bright spot? I'm formally asking the bright spot first because I'm hosting today.
Derek's Bright Spot: Comic Adventure
00:00:49
Speaker
My bright spot. Okay. So we have had a weird up and down sort of week today has been a weird up and up and down sort of day for myself. But
00:01:04
Speaker
Last week, I had a day off with my wife and I had texted her a little bit ahead of time and I was like, hey, any chance you want to just go to the comic book store? And she was like, yeah, sure, why not? So we made a day of it. We went to the comic book store. We went to, there's like a little British shop that's like maybe 15 minutes away from like the comic book store I like to go to. And you know, we bought a bunch of like
00:01:32
Speaker
you know, like pies and like little British snacks and stuff like things that she goes crazy for. We had a good time. But when we were at the comic book store, I've happened. So I'm a big fan of like weird shit and I love Captain Britain.
00:01:54
Speaker
I can't explain to you exactly why, I just think it's neat. And while I was there, I happened to ask the guy that was running the post, like, hey, do you happen to have any old Captain Britain? And he said, oh, I have something to show you. And he goes behind the counter, and he pulls out the second issue of Captain Britain Weekly, which, so like, this was published in 1976, it was a newsprint comic.
00:02:23
Speaker
it does not hold up well. It was sold for 10 pence. Again, a weekly comic book. So these things are, oh, and not published in America. It was only published in the UK. So he pulls this out and I was like, Oh my God, that's so cool. And my wife, always the one to
00:02:44
Speaker
try to push me to do things that I actually enjoy. She was like, you have to buy it. So I purchased it. I now own Captain Britain number two, which is kind of cool. I had a lot of fun like flipping through it. But also as we were walking out, I happened to notice this little thing and she talked to me into buying it. I bought it. I want to show you. Austin is very good at first waiting people to buy things. Like it's great.
00:03:14
Speaker
So this is a cell from the Star Trek The Animated Series.
00:03:21
Speaker
which aired in the 70s as well. Cool. And I am a super big fan of it. Well, first of all, I'm just a big Star Trek fan, but that cartoon is so ridiculous that it is so much fun to watch. It is so cheaply made. The voice acting, not great. And the plots are absolute bananas.
00:03:49
Speaker
is right up my alley. So I now own a, a sell from Star Trek. The animated series. Very happy about it. You had a very collectible week. That's fun. What about
Corinne's New Beginnings and Home Projects
00:04:02
Speaker
you? What is your bright spot for the week? Uh, for the week. I have been very motivated this week.
00:04:13
Speaker
I think that is my big spot. I just started my new job, which is awesome. I love it a lot. We got to visit some friends in their first apartment and it is the cutest apartment I've ever seen in my life. I love it so much. It reminds me of the first apartment that I got with my partner and it has inspired me to just like,
00:04:41
Speaker
really make our place our own. So I'm trying to get crafty. I really want to get some more art and things like that for our space. And I want to just see what I can do on my own to make this even more fun to live in. It's getting there. I do like our current apartment.
00:05:04
Speaker
want to like it even more. So I'm trying to like think of fun ways to juj it up without like breaking a budget.
00:05:13
Speaker
And I like my new job. It's very fun. It's very cute. This feels very much like the year I'm actually going to get to know the place that I live, which is very exciting. I've been wanting to do this for a while. And now I'm actually getting the ability to do it.
00:05:36
Speaker
I don't have to worry about job searching anymore, because I got that taken care of. I can actually go forth with my goals. Very fun. So, motivation. I've just been motivated. I've been pumped. I tried using my waffle iron as a panini press, and it turned out great. We're doing good. Well, that's good. I know exactly that sort of feeling of just like,
00:06:03
Speaker
I have the drive and the energy to accomplish something, and I wish I could bottle that. Yeah. Because damn, the times you need it, you don't usually have it. But yeah, very motivational week. I hope that everybody had a good week like that, because it feels nice. And it very much feels like I am opening a new chapter, a new part of my story, which is also how I would probably describe the segment of Clone Saga that I read.
Simplifying the Clone Saga for the Podcast
00:06:33
Speaker
I found a segment. I'm proud of myself. Before we went on our hiatus, I did read and prepare notes for the Clone Saga segment called Exile. Not to be confused with the Exile Returns. This is its own thing. There's a lot of... The Exile comes way after the Exile Returns.
00:07:00
Speaker
Which I guess would be confusing if you were reading it. Like if these were published as like little storylines, super confusing. Really confusing. The Clone Song is very good at using the same five words for major collection titles. Yeah. And they were also really good at confusing the shit out of their readers. So they really killed two birds with one stone on this one.
00:07:30
Speaker
But this was a pretty quick read. And also since I did read this again like over half a year ago at this point, I've done a lot of thinking about the clones of the episodes in and of itself. They're so long.
00:07:50
Speaker
Yes. They are so long. Derek and I love chatting, but I was like, how can I make this a little more quick and painless when it comes to the retelling of the stories? So I have now been, I just have decided that I'm going to try
00:08:07
Speaker
and explain the plot of each issue in the most bare minimum amount of sentences that I can. Because quite frankly, some of this detail is not that necessary. And we can get into more of the details when we actually discuss it. So that is my challenge. I'm going to try and go with as minimal as possible. Now, we're picking up right after maximum clonage. So this is where Ben
00:08:36
Speaker
believes now that he is the true Peter Parker. Ben Riley is, as of now, the actual biological original Peter Parker. The man who we refer to as Peter Parker in the entire series is actually considered a clone. Cain
00:09:07
Speaker
From what I remember, I think he might have just broken out of prison or he is in prison. I think he died. Oh, he did die. Oh, thank God. Yeah, you were very excited that he died. We got rid of Jackal and Cain in like a single episode. We got rid of both of them and it was so nice. I do remember. Thank God.
00:09:31
Speaker
So that, I mean, there's plenty of bad guys still around. There's Judas Traveler still alive. Scryer, or square, depending on how you want to pronounce it. I kind of like, square. He's still around. So we don't know what's going to happen with them. But in terms of the identities of who's a clone and who's technically an actual human being is technically Ben Riley is OG man. Peter Parker Spiderman is
00:10:01
Speaker
a clone. And that is the main thing that you need to
Exploring Ben Riley's Identity and Family Themes
00:10:06
Speaker
know. This whole exile collection, it starts with the web of Spider-Man number 128. And for the credits, the writers are Tom DeFalco and Todd DeZago. That is very fun that their name sounds so similar, by the way.
00:10:30
Speaker
The penciler is Steven Butler. The anchor is Randy Emberlin. The colorists are Kevin Tinsley and the company like Malibu Color. And then the letter is Steve Dutrow. The editors we have are Eric Fine and Danny Fingroth. That's what we got.
00:10:56
Speaker
Now, the quickest way I can summarize what happens is Spider-Man and the Scarlet Spider fight and defeat a character named Despair. Despair is spelled very funky. He's a skeleton man who has taken Felicia, also known as Black Cat, and he uses magic to manipulate and brainwash her into hating Spider-Man. Also, Mary Jane is a maternal clothing model, so cute.
00:11:26
Speaker
That is literally all that happens in that issue. Despair is almost always used as like a single issue sort of villain. I mostly know him from popping up in the X-Men because of course I would know him from popping up in the X-Men. So I don't really know anything more about the character other than he shows up, tries to make everyone miserable, and then is always defeated very easily.
00:11:51
Speaker
It was very quick bing, bang, boom, done. He, why did he take Felicia? Because she was confused about the whole like Peter Parker, Ben Riley, who's whose situation.
00:12:05
Speaker
Yeah, the whole issue starts with her being like, wow, well, like I was with Peter Parker at one point, but I guess Peter Parker is technically a clone. What does that make me feel about like Ben Riley? Because I saw him in prison for a hot minute and didn't realize it was him, but it felt off. Like she's kind of like, what's happening? And then despair comes in and is like, gotcha. How does despair even know this whole situation is happening? No clue. I've never seen this man in my life.
00:12:33
Speaker
I don't know. I mean, as a demon, I'm sure there's like something in there that's like vaguely aware of things. And look, later in, later in Spider-Man's life, he's going to make a deal with Mephisto. So he's got, he's got some demons that are following him around for some fucking reason.
00:12:52
Speaker
That's good enough for me. So yeah, it was kind of a throwaway. The whole issue does end with Peter Parker and Spider-Man, because they're building up this whole, oh, who will be the main web guy?
00:13:07
Speaker
And they kind of have like a quick two second conversation of being like, Ben Riley, you deserve to be the real Spider-Man. And then Ben Riley's like, no, but it's been you all along. And then he's like, okay. Um, also like, it's kind of hard to like switch spots. Like one person is a married and like soon to be father, like,
00:13:34
Speaker
You can't just kick people out of New York if you're starting a family. You already have real estate you gotta consider. Well, I think it's interesting to remember that at this point, the whole reason for Mary Jane being pregnant, finding out that Ben is the true Peter Parker, all of that, that whole point was to basically give Peter a happy ending.
00:14:01
Speaker
and then have Ben take over. And here we are after the end of that setup, and they're still trying to figure out who's going where and who's doing what. This could have been the easiest thing to just start anew. It also just seemed kind of like a given.
00:14:22
Speaker
We already have felt so long that Ben Riley is Ben Riley, regardless of genetic code, and he is going to now live a life, because he hasn't really been doing that, and he's been trying to.
00:14:41
Speaker
Peter Parker already has a life and was struggling between the balance of being Spider-Man and being a guy. And that was his whole beginning of this saga. And now that he decided, realizes he's a father, there's a motivation there to actually have work-life balance. Right. Seemed kind of a given as to where people are going to go.
00:15:11
Speaker
I just kind of had already assumed that Ben Riley, you know, based on the context that Ben Riley was going to go just live his life, regardless of if it was in New York or not. But now it's like one of us has to leave New York. And so they've decided Ben Riley is going to leave New York. That's pretty much like how the series ends. Right. But is that shocking? Would I have made that like a cover?
00:15:41
Speaker
No, because 90% of this was just a one-off, punchy guy story. If one was going for like a hype of drama and who is who, I feel like we are past that point. But whatever. It was a funky beginning. It was, again, just a very punchy one guy.
00:16:08
Speaker
a quick shot of a beginning of a collection. It's fine. Also shout out to Mary Jane for getting a modeling gig. Good for you. Make that cash. We love it. She's been my favorite character throughout the whole thing, so I gotta shout her out every chance I get.
00:16:30
Speaker
Oddly, Ben and Mary Jane. Yeah. They're the two of them. I'm like, I mean, once Ben got over his, his like initial bullshit, love him. I fucking love him as a character and Mary Jane from the get go. I'm like, yes, I agree with you. Yeah. She has been nothing but like, I get you lady.
00:16:54
Speaker
I get you and I support you. We're on to number, we're on to the next one. Sorry. Um, so this is Amazing Spider-Man number 405.
Seaward's Cabin Explosion and Its Consequences
00:17:07
Speaker
We've got, uh, JMD Matias and Todd Dzago as the writers. Derek Robertson as the penciler.
00:17:17
Speaker
Larry. Oh, Mollstead. Mollstead. Okay. I don't know why that L looked like an I. Larry Mollstead is the anchor. Bob Sharon as colorist, Bill Oakley in letterer and Danny finger off as the editor. So. Well, I wait, before you go any further, Derek Robertson, the pencil for this.
00:17:40
Speaker
Derek Robertson is probably best known as either the penciler for a chance of metropolitan, which is one of, like, I don't know if it holds up now, but I read it when I was like 18 and I thought it was genius. Great, great comic book about politics and journalism and just, it's kind of like,
00:18:06
Speaker
It's essentially like Hunter S. Thompson, but in a futuristic world with weird politics. Lot of fun. Loved it when I was younger. The other thing that Derek Robertson is known for is being the penciler on The Boys, which is now like a hit TV show. Yeah. That's it. Just want to give you that little trivia.
00:18:31
Speaker
I mean, I like the show a lot. I keep wanting to read the comics, like for the boys, but... Pretty much everyone that I've spoken to has been like, you know what? You're better off with just watching the show. Well, that's what I keep hearing. And that makes me sad. Well, I mean, Garth Ennis is the one who wrote it. And I like Garth Ennis, but there is like...
00:18:57
Speaker
There's like a level of just sort of edgy for the sake of being controversial and weird that I feel like is, like, I don't know if that's accurate to describe Garthinus' work, but that's what I get out of Garthinus' work. And it just doesn't, it's not my type of thing. It's very like dark in a way that
00:19:25
Speaker
I don't, it doesn't hit me as like sincere or good. I'm, I don't know. I like him, I like him more than I like some other artists or some other authors that I would put under the same sort of category, but it is a little annoying. Okay.
00:19:52
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, I think the show also sometimes is like that. Maybe not as much. I like the show. Don't get like, this is not me like bagging on the show or anything. I very much like the show and I'm very excited for, um, for the next season. I've never watched the show, uh, in part because I, like, I have some vague awareness of the comic book and I was like, Oh, I don't think I would like this, but I mean, maybe I will.
00:20:21
Speaker
I like the show. I really like Carl Urban. He's like one of my favorite things. I love Carl Urban. Oh, I love him so much. He's so cool. I just think he's neat. And I like all of the characters that are in like the group of the boys. I just think they all do such an awesome job. So they are the reasons I like keep coming back anyway.
00:20:47
Speaker
Shout out to all the people who made this comic book issue. It was a fun one. In the quickest of terms, what happened in this comic book? Feeling sad and conflicted about leaving New York, Ben Riley goes to Seaward's Vermont cabin. He said, I'm taking a vacation. How much property does Seaward own? How much? Because he's got like,
00:21:15
Speaker
He's got the cabin and he's got a lab. Does he have like any, like two labs? Hold on. Someone has a lab in Pennsylvania and then someone also has a lab in New York. Well, the Jackal had a bunch. I don't know. I think five labs. Yeah. One of them.
00:21:39
Speaker
How much are these people fucking making us? Because isn't C-word was like a professor. So, like, do professors in the Marvel universe just make a fuckload of money? I think if your title in Marvel sounds very professional in academia, you make a shit ton of money. But if it sounds more like simple, then you make no money. If I can call you teacher,
00:22:07
Speaker
you probably don't make anything. But if you're a professor, then you have 50 properties. One in each state. If you are... Oh, I can't think of any more. If you're a bartender, you make no money. But if you're a sommelier, you, again, own 50 properties.
00:22:30
Speaker
That's why all of these supervillains are doctors because they're the only ones that can afford to get all of this shit. And like, they, they're degrees and knowledge to know how to like steal the money with bribes and like get away with it. But if C word's a good guy.
00:22:48
Speaker
I guess it's supposed to be assumed he made the money honestly, so is the government giving him grants? Is... Who knows? Apparently he's got a cabin in Vermont. Whoo! Okay. We have a lovely snow bunny vacation, but the cabin explodes. Um, thankfully Ben makes it out thanks to a call from the doctor himself at just the right time.
00:23:12
Speaker
We also learn where and how the two men became friends. So basically years ago, Ben Riley shows up in Seabird's town and is very angry about life and he's very aggressive and hungry, upset, all of like the non-fun adjectives.
00:23:35
Speaker
And C-word essentially gives him some acts of kindness and is like, let me take you in. And that's how they become friends. So this whole set of memories and backstory are now the new motivation for the Scarlet Spider's new mission, which is to save C-word from whoever tried to blow up his cabin.
00:24:06
Speaker
The comic book ends with Scarlet Spider making it to... He goes back to New York to the lab and he gets attacked by some robots! Oh no! The robots are trying to hack into his lab! Oh no!
00:24:24
Speaker
And that's it. You're like, Oh no, what's going to happen? Um, and there's like an image of the doctor being trapped in a, in a very dark room. And we're like, Oh no, someone got the doctor and someone's got started spider. This is horrible. Uh, side plot, very minor side plot. Uh, Peter Parker has one of those night terrors where you forget, uh, what happened as soon as you wake up.
00:24:51
Speaker
Oh boy. He's like, oh, I had like a horrible nightmare, but I don't remember what it is anymore. And so you're supposed to be like, clone weirdness. Hmm. What? I don't know. Um, is he malfunctioning? Who's to say? But I mean, I like that the symptoms of being a clone can also be the same as like you.
00:25:16
Speaker
you ate some spicy food before bed yeah like you ate Burger King too soon before you went to bed yeah yeah and then it's just like what is it that or am i a clone yeah i mean you are a clone but could it be both i'm a clone who ate Burger King yeah that was it i actually uh i i liked where this was going with this issue um
00:25:41
Speaker
with, with Ben or with Peter? Oh, with Ben. I don't give a shit about Peter. I find it interesting that like now that we've, we've resolved a major thing for Ben, we're getting into seaward has like his own little adventure that Ben has to get involved in. That's kind of cool.
00:26:01
Speaker
I think it's fun. I like that it was set up as though it was one of those action movies where it's, I'm retired, but I got to do one more job for my friend. It's very much set up like that. And I enjoyed that very much. Do I wish we had more of this background knowledge as to how the two met
00:26:28
Speaker
with what I consider to be the meat of the clone saga. Yes, very much so. That would have been nice, but I didn't get that. So I must eat the meal I've been served, and overall the meal was fine. This felt more like the beginnings of a spin-off series starring the Scarlet Spider than a bit of clone saga.
00:26:57
Speaker
That's an interesting take. I can understand like that might be something that's sort of baked into it. I mean, we do have coming up like that sort of idea. So maybe that was like the thought process going in to writing Amazing Spider-Man 405.
00:27:23
Speaker
you know, let's, let's do it as a backdoor pilot, I guess for Ben's own book. Maybe. And I think it would have been nice if this was the pilot to a book, like a proper one. Um, because I think at this point, Ben Riley stands on his own as his own individual as the series has been so
00:27:51
Speaker
You know, it seems like they're working hard on trying to make that be like the reader's opinion. And I think I have that opinion.
00:28:00
Speaker
Yet here we are. I mean, this is the Clone Saga episode. So this is in the Clone Saga. Um, if it were going to be like a spinoff series, I feel like the quick couple panels of, you know, Peter Parker having his Wendy's nightmare. I feel like that could have been chopped out so easily. And cause I still don't really care about it. Well, not to, not to like, I try not to give away too much of what I actually know happens in the Clone Saga, but like,
00:28:31
Speaker
this literally comes up in like a couple of episodes. We do have Scarlet Spider having his own series and it's essentially just taking the ongoing Spider-Man series that we have and making it instead of Amazing Spider-Man, Amazing Scarlet Spider. So, I mean, which is weird because you have two adjectives there, but
00:28:56
Speaker
I think that might be the, this might be the point where they were like, okay, we have to actually build this up. I mean, yeah, it would be nice if that was just like a spin-off pilot. It would be great because my God, the clone saga's long and already, like as last time we read it, felt like it had ended. But no, we're going to keep going. We got Spider-Man number 62.
00:29:21
Speaker
because it never ends. It's, we got the writer, Howard Mackey, the penciler, Pat Broderick, Inker, Chris, oh well, Inker, it's Chris Ivey and Tom Palmer. We have two colors, Kevin Tinsley and then the company Malibu color. Letterors are Richard, are Richard Starkings and then the company comic craft. And editor is Danny Fingerroth. Again, he's still here a lot.
00:29:50
Speaker
This was a very, this is a very quick read. And basically what happens is, so we ended off with, you know, the scarlet spider getting taken by robots who are hacking into the mainframe.
Rescue Mission: Scarlet Spider vs. Android Attack
00:30:05
Speaker
Oh no, so bad. Dr. Seaward's lair. So he, you know, is being held captive and interrogated.
00:30:16
Speaker
by these two androids, we learn that they're androids. And they want to steal some files that Dr. Seward has. Basically, what happens, again, the quickest way to explain it possible, Scarlet Skater, Scarlet Spider, he breaks free. Again, motivated by his friendship of Dr. Seward and how he helped him become the man that he is today.
00:30:43
Speaker
He saves the doctor. They fight off robots. And it's super, you know, high adventure. It was Dr. Seyward was trapped in a room and he almost suffocated and drowned. But we saved him. Hooray. And everything is fine. And they go back to ensure that all the files are safe. And then they're like, but who done it? We don't know.
00:31:11
Speaker
We're gonna find out. That is pretty much what happens. Also- So it's like an issue long, essentially like a fight scene.
00:31:22
Speaker
It's a quick wrap up of the, oh no, my friend's been taken. Oh no, my friend's been found. Two quick side things. Peter and Mary Jane, they have a nice romantic moment staring at the moon, but Peter feels weird. What's that about? Who gives a shit?
00:31:47
Speaker
Also, the vulture, if we remember, he's the young looking vulture. It's like Vulture 2.0 in a way. He's usually the vulture's like a bald man. This is a man with a lot of hair. He is trying to kill a man so he can maintain his youth. Because he's like, I guess, a vampire.
00:32:13
Speaker
That's the thing that happened. That is pretty much all that has happened. So this was, again, just a very quick wrap up of the last issue. Oh no, my friend is hurt. Oh yay, my friend's been saved. But who done it?
00:32:35
Speaker
If this was a spin-off thing, which I would be more excited if it was instead of just clone saga stuff. Like again, check out the Peter Parker, who am I? What's going on? Well, not much of the who am I just like, I feel weird. Um, get rid of that. And maybe just highlight the almost like.
00:32:59
Speaker
I picture it very much kind of like a taken or maybe like a bit of like John Wick kind of thing where it's someone's hurt me or hurt someone I love. I got to go find out who did it and save the friend. If this was a more longer drawn out thing, that was again a solo series who would have preferred
00:33:22
Speaker
a more long drawn out saving and uncovering before we get to the friend. Like who did this? Yeah. Yeah. A proper buildup. Yeah. But this was like very quickly, like
00:33:39
Speaker
quickly found the villain. Stakes are already really high because my friend's about to die. Quick, save my friend. And it was like kick butt and like find the names later instead of like more of a, I don't know if I would call it like a detective drama, but you know, something of that more. The journey wasn't that great.
00:34:01
Speaker
It was fun, but it was very fleeting in short. Right. Having a shorter story doesn't really give you the same amount of emotional pull-in to what you're reading. It's just sort of like, here are the events moving forward. We're done. I was so interested in the last issue. Again, it felt very much like, oh wow, Beck for one more job, for friendship.
00:34:27
Speaker
And then who the heck are these robots? We still don't know who any of the robots are. We just know that they're after the doctor's files. It would have been cooler if maybe there was like, you know, instead of just getting straight to the lab, there was like sidetrack with the robots beforehand, maybe like some more Vermont stuff. Like the robots are in Vermont. I don't know.
00:34:55
Speaker
I'm not a writer though, so it's not up to me. And yeah, that was pretty much it for that one. Again, super quick. The main thing of the last issue was very quickly resolved and now we got this weird vulture situation.
00:35:11
Speaker
And yeah, and so it kind of picks up with that in a way with Spider-Man Unlimited number 10. We got the writer, Mike Lackey, Pencilers, Sean McManus, and Roy Burden.
00:35:32
Speaker
or Burdine, I don't know. The Inkers are John Nyberg and Sean McManus. Oh, wow, Sean, you're doing two different things, good for you. Colorists are John Calise and the Malibu Color. Letterers, we got Jim Novak and Chris Eliopolis. That is a very fun last name. Good for you, Chris Eliopolis.
00:35:59
Speaker
And then the editors are the same too that have been showing up a lot. We haven't really had the big change of editors yet. Eric Fine and Danny Fingeroth. I am right to believe that like the editors change at one point, right? I mean, they kind of get tossed around at, you know, different points and like there's like a different shakeups.
00:36:24
Speaker
throughout Marvel at the time. So you'll have like an editor that's in charge of just Spider-Man at one, like, you know what I mean? Like instead of being like an editor for the, for the entire book, you know what I mean? I guess so. Yeah. I guess, I guess.
00:36:51
Speaker
What I kind of thought was happening maybe isn't what actually was happening. I thought that people were gonna get fired and then just random people were gonna be filling in spaces. I don't know why I thought that. It just seemed like the shakeup was gonna be a lot bigger in that sense. In terms of editors, at least, it is the same people, but I guess it's just they're not always connected to the story canonically.
00:37:21
Speaker
Well, keep in mind, it was around this time that Bob Budiansky became the editor-in-chief of the Spider-Man line. True. And then, which we don't even have Bob showing up at this point, you know what I mean? Which is so weird to me because I feel like, and maybe it's just because I sometimes forget the grandness of the clone saga, but we've read so much.
00:37:50
Speaker
We've already surpassed two potential endings that to me I'm like, this has got to be like the last one. I think when I was reading this, it didn't feel like the Clone Saga fully. It just felt like I was reading different sets of Scarlet Spider comics as opposed to like the Clone Saga. Again, I wouldn't have known that it was explicitly Clone Saga.
00:38:16
Speaker
if they didn't have the like Peter Parker having weird burger nightmares, you know what I'm saying? Right. Yeah. Yeah. So I think that's what's getting me confused. I forget how much more there is for us to read. That's what gives me burger nightmares. We also don't get, we don't see all of the little changes that are being done. I mean, we've had different writers
00:38:40
Speaker
different artists, like even with Spider-Man Unlimited, we had Tom Lyle doing like so much of that. And now this doesn't have Tom Lyle on it at all. That's true. This one's a little more kind of convoluted, I guess. It's hard to break this down into a very, very short explanation.
00:39:04
Speaker
Okay. But it's weird because it's kind of a nothing thing, but also a thing, I guess. Um, it, so this story highlights, um, the vulture. So he was mentioned in the last issue, how he's killing people for youth because he's a vampire vulture, I guess.
00:39:26
Speaker
So post saving Dr. Seward, they come across the crime scene of that murder that we talked about in the last issue that the vulture left behind. And so this scarlet spider is like, well, while I'm here in New York, I might as well solve another crime. And that's pretty much all this is. They also just tie it in with it being Uncle Ben's like,
00:39:54
Speaker
Death anniversary is like the best way to call it. Okay. Um, and having it be like around that time kind of gives them permission to include like a side character as to like, why it's even more important to stop the vulture because of crazy connection that gets attached. Um, so in this issue, you meet Mr. Mulligan. That's his name. He's an old textile friend of Ben's. They used to work together.
00:40:24
Speaker
And basically, Mr. Mulligan has a son who is like, you know, he's like an older teen. He's about to head into the adult world, but he's like struggling in school. You know, he doesn't want to study. And so he resolves to joining a gang. And Mr. Mulligan's sad about that because he wants his son to go to college like he never got to.
00:40:50
Speaker
Um, and they're like, so there's basically like a scene where just like Mr. Mulligan thinks he's talking to Peter Parker, but it's actually Ben Riley, but they share the same face. So.
00:41:05
Speaker
Woohoo! So Mr. Mulligan is like, you know, conveying his like worries and stuff and talking about how great Uncle Ben is and how worried he is about a son. How do these things connect? Well, the gang that Jimmy Mulligan, so Mr. Mulligan's son, gang that Jimmy has signed on to has to rob a warehouse.
00:41:29
Speaker
And as they're gonna start robbing the warehouse, Jimmy starts to get cold feet. And he's like, oh no, maybe I do have a moral backbone. But before he can fully back out from the scary mob, the vulture comes and he's like, time for me to kill some people so I can stay young forever. And then of course, because it's a comic book, Scarlet Spider shows up. And even though some goons die, at least Jimmy and the humble security guard survive.
00:42:00
Speaker
The vulture escapes. Oh no. And to wrap up the whole Jimmy plot line, Jimmy tries to quit the mob, but the mob boss is being like, you can't quit. I'ma beat you up. And he beats him up and sends him to the ER. And then Mr. Mulligan is like, I got to stand up for my son, which he goes to try and do. And then.
00:42:24
Speaker
Because it's an old man going against a mob boss. And the Scarlet Spider gets involved and is like, I gotta save Mr. Mulligan.
00:42:33
Speaker
And, uh, and yeah, and basically like Ben Riley just like helps the family out. The family gets back on the right track. They all live happily ever after. Uh, isn't that nice? So that's, that's like the main, that's the whole story for, for Ben here during
00:42:57
Speaker
Yeah, and then he finds the vulture and beats him up. That's it. The side plot, which happens for like five seconds, is Peter Parker has the spooky Mary Jane vision. Like Kane. Yeah, that's it. All right. So this is a weird follow up to the story that was being told
00:43:26
Speaker
in the previous issues. Like I know this is like an ad, I know this is like one of those weird added on comics that doesn't get published like the same as everyone else. And it's kind of like you use it, but you know when it's being
Gang Crime and Vulture's Involvement
00:43:39
Speaker
published. And if you're making it as part of the exiled plot line, you would want to continue that plot line versus just being like something completely different.
00:43:52
Speaker
And I feel like- They were like, oh, we connected it by like having it be post Dr. Seaward saving. They see the crime scene and I guess he gets distracted, I guess. Yeah, but like thematically, like nothing continues. There's no robots. No, there's no robots. It's very like Mr. Mulligan and Vulture heavy.
00:44:20
Speaker
I mean, it's a cute story. Yeah, no, it is a cute story. I think it's a fine one off. There's not much to say about it. Like I get in the previous issue, they brought up this vulture thing. And so in terms of like segueing, I think it's fine.
00:44:46
Speaker
I'm not mad at it. This is not the most offensive thing I've read of the clone saga. So I kind of give it a pass, but you are right. It doesn't match thematically. And I understand having one-off episodes, or one-off issues is probably better to call it, in a big plot line.
00:45:15
Speaker
If we're going with, there's these robots that are working for some higher power that want to steal this impressive professor's documents. You've only taken two issues to establish that. I would even dare to say one and a half because that second issue is so short. And a one-off distraction, I feel like,
00:45:44
Speaker
is warranted when there is more of the bigger plot lines established. This story could have waited. Yeah. Yes. That's actually what I was just about to say was like Chris Claremont was famous for doing his
00:46:05
Speaker
quiet issues, but they always followed the big stories. So like you didn't stop in the middle of a story to tell a quiet issue. You continued that story to its natural conclusion. And once you had that, you would then do a quiet story where you refocused on the characters and less on like a plot, you know? Yeah. And, and again, like I,
00:46:28
Speaker
I don't really mind that there was a crime fighting quick thing that it didn't have a ton to do with character. Like they really just kind of tossed the Ben.
00:46:44
Speaker
death, like death, the uncle Ben death timeline. Yeah. Just so you could meet Mr. Mulligan to like, you know, get the vulture in this thing and have them connect. Like, so I get that and I don't mind it. And I don't mind it in the middle of a bigger plot line, like in the middle, not like as an after quiet one. Um, because I guess like if you are a superhero, like you can't control when bad guys come out.
00:47:11
Speaker
So you do, I would imagine you probably would have to multitask a little bit. True. But in terms of storytelling, I would have just waited a little longer. You know, I would have waited till maybe like we learn a couple more crumbs to get to the big answers of the robots or something like that. And then.
00:47:39
Speaker
maybe while they're like on this, like in the middle of the search after a step forward is when the vulture comes out and it's like, you know, it's like, Oh, I got to help this too. Like, Oh no. Like, but it was just very quick of like, Oh, that's, that's what it kind of felt like in terms of sounds. Um,
00:48:07
Speaker
So yeah, overall, I think Exile is a fine collection. I think we could have just done away with the whole despair thing in the first one. Like, I think that's nearly a lot. To be very honest, I had already forgotten about that.
00:48:30
Speaker
Because really the only relevant information in terms of the clone saga that you get from that one is just Ben Riley get out in New York. Agreed? Agreed. That's it. And that could have been done.
00:48:46
Speaker
like without. It could have been a page. I could have been a page of either probably at the end of the maximum clone and stuff we read. And then you get this, this exile one where it just opens with him being, it opens with him being on like a bike. And he, he like with a spider instincts, he like has to like kind of
00:49:11
Speaker
he ends up destroying his bike. And he's like, oh, why did I do that? Was it subconscious? Because I don't want to leave. What's up? And then he's like, oh, no, I got to leave because I'm being weird right now. Like, that's how it opens. And I'm like, why didn't we just start with that? Like, because it's called exile. So he's he's in the process of exiling himself. Right. Right. What's sorry, Felicia, but by Felicia. Why?
00:49:37
Speaker
she's a great character but like if they actually did something with her but they didn't really like it was a weird so that first one was weird yeah and then then you have a buildup of something happening with seaward robots showing up there's a threat and then it's just kind of like you're done with that now let's move on to a different story
00:50:09
Speaker
I was genuinely interested and excited to learn about what's going on with this doctor that we're supposed to care about and know about. I mean, he's part of the huge pivotal moment of people realizing who they are and stuff. And he's a huge part of Ben Riley's backstory as they keep telling us, but they don't like... This was the first time we actually got to see
00:50:37
Speaker
in a way why like we got to see glimpses of it. So it's like, why can't we keep building on that? Why did we get distracted so soon? Yeah. And you know, I think this would work. I mean, maybe I'm wrong, but I think this would work better also if you didn't have this story named like exiled one, two, three, and four, like you have a despair.
00:51:04
Speaker
a story, then you have exiled one and two, and then you have whatever the Vulture story is. And they could be read together and it could be, and you can have like the prologue, the epilogue, whatever, but like have it, the story that you were telling or at least starting with exiled is just those two issues. So,
00:51:34
Speaker
just seems like a marketing thing, because it doesn't seem like any of that goes together. I'm wondering, like I wish I could sit in on like these story summits and see like, was the thought process, this is all one story, or was it, we're going to tell this story, but you have to loop in all the other books that are published that month.
Critique of the Clone Saga's Narrative Structure
00:51:57
Speaker
Yeah, and I understand that comics are meant to be action-packed, especially Spider-Man comics. They're meant to be action-packed. It is the kick-pow-bam comic. That's like the genre it's in. I get it. I know you don't always have to have the most groundbreaking issue, because people want kick-pow-bam, and that's okay.
00:52:25
Speaker
If you're going for something that is a saga, you have to think about it a little bit. And it just seems like they have good ideas, like the robots. But again, I was excited about the robots. I was surprised. I went, oh shit, am I invested? That doesn't have that much. Especially with the clone saga. And then they got sloppy.
00:52:55
Speaker
And I was all disappointed at the end. Nothing wrong with Jimmy Mulligan. I wish him the best. I really do. I support the Mulligans and I hope they have a child go to college one day because it seems like that's something I really want. But I don't want to care about them right now. I want to care about what's going on with this doctor that I have been trying to know who the heck he is for so long.
00:53:24
Speaker
Why can't we let us learn about him? Yeah. We finally have a little bit of information about who he is. And then we have to sidetrack it. I mean, okay. So if you were like, let's let's separate this out into the, like a standalone despair issue, two exiled books and the vulture comic. Yeah. If they were,
00:53:52
Speaker
just printed like that, how would you feel about, like, would you still have complicated feelings or would you be like, no, the exiled part's pretty good and the rest are okay? I'd feel better about it. I think if, because the thing that makes it hard though is they introduce the vulture plot in exile part two, essentially. So
00:54:19
Speaker
It would, in order to break that into like the three categories that you just gave me, you would have to take some content out of one of the books. And if you did that, I would be totally fine with it. Um, like, cause you could just put it in the beginning of the Vulture issue, you know? Or, I mean, like one of my favorite things that, uh, I feel like isn't used as well.
00:54:46
Speaker
any more outside of things, like more independent books like Power Rangers or like Sonic the Hedgehog. I see this all the time being used here where it's like, you'll have a brief scene. Maybe it's a couple of panels. Maybe it's a page setting up the next story. And then you just have a caption kind of letting you know this will be followed up on in this comic or in an upcoming issue or something like that.
00:55:15
Speaker
So it's like, oh, it's a little teaser in the middle of this story. I love stuff like that. Cause it's like, okay, cool. I have gotten my resolution from this comic book, but you've got to set up for the next one that I can continue reading. Yeah. But then that's not them putting it in the collection. That's them having footnote being like, here's a side journey you can go on. Well, yeah, I mean, if I'm looking at this as it's being published, that would be how that would look. Yeah.
00:55:46
Speaker
Yeah. I'm just again, it was the meat of exile. Good. I would like to know what goes on. The extra like bullshit.
00:56:01
Speaker
I could have lived without, I think also though, I have to kind of look at myself with where I'm at with reading the Clone Saga. I kind of just want to be resolved with the Clone Saga, but there's a lot of content and I am just not wrapping my head around the fact that we just still have so much more to read. Because in my mind, I'm like, what possibly is there else to explore with the clones? What else? Truly.
00:56:30
Speaker
Because if you're going to tell me that it's this Peter Parker having these weird evening moments of forgetful night terrors and visions all of the sudden, I think that's really cheap.
00:56:51
Speaker
but I'm not a writer. I just keep coming back to, I genuinely feel like Spider-Man's greatest enemy, and I think this continues to today, is Marvel. It could be Marvel marketing, it could be Marvel editorial, but the publisher itself seems to be its greatest enemy.
00:57:19
Speaker
I mean, if you go to the movies, you have probably Sony. But even then, Sony puts out some pretty damn good... Some of my favorite Spider-Man media outside of the comic books are Sony productions. And I like MCU Spider-Man. I think they're really good. And I think it was the right way to go with that character with where we were.
00:57:49
Speaker
But even still, I feel like Marvel gets in the way of itself so much. Right. I get it. And I think it is. I think you can definitely tell in this series.
00:58:04
Speaker
Yeah, what a time. I think that's all I got to say about exile. So you can find more information at comicallypedantic.com. You can also follow us on Instagram just by searching pedantic cast and new episodes come out on most Sundays on iTunes and Stitcher and Google podcasts and Spotify.
00:58:29
Speaker
And even at our website, which is comicallypedantic.com. If you have any comments or questions, you can send them in text or audio recording to comicallypedantic.com. Please let us know just if you want your name or your question to be read on the air.
00:58:50
Speaker
And we will we will see you soon so so so soon Hopefully because we're actually recording regularly and it's nice. Um, yeah It's very nice. Um, but we'll see you soon with another deep dive into the world of comics But until then go go find an exciting adventure at your local comic shop. Bye. Bye
00:59:29
Speaker
I realized so many things wrong with myself. I say like so much like right now. Um, that is my filler word and it makes me suffer and it makes me sound very much like a very dumb American, which isn't wrong, but I don't want to be that anyway.