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00:00:01
Got Data?
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Andreanne Rondeau, Founder of stratLX, brings more than 20 years in the loyalty space to this insightful conversation. In this episode, you’ll learn how to more effectively implement personalization, gain practical tips for collecting the right customer data, and get inspired by some real-life examples from brands like Sephora and Neiman Marcus. Andreanne brings more than 20 years of experience in the loyalty space to this discussion. Don't miss out on her insider tips. Get ready to get personal!
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Transcript
Introduction to Andrian Rondo's Loyalty Journey
00:00:10
Speaker
Get personal with loyalty, where we're discussing using loyalty to deliver personalized, relevant customer experiences. Hello, everybody. Welcome to today's episode. I am Erin Rees, your host, and today I'm here with Andrian Rondo from StratLX. She's the founder of the organization and their loyalty consultancy out of Canada. Welcome, Andrian. Hi, good morning, Erin. Thanks a lot for having me today.
00:00:39
Speaker
We're so thrilled to have you excited for today's conversation. Let's get started. I don't really know your story. How did you get started in loyalty? And how did you get so passionate about
20 Years of Experience in Loyalty
00:00:51
Speaker
it? And then I'd love to hear how you then became an entrepreneur.
00:00:55
Speaker
Yeah, for sure. Yeah, so I've been in the loyalty for about 20 years now. I'd say that very early in my career, I was involved in CRM positions. Back then, you probably remember back then, we were referring to as direct marketing. Even I come from a degree that's more oriented towards communication. But right away, when I started working in CRM, I fell in love with the fact that everything is measurable.
00:01:22
Speaker
we would do multiple version of a direct mailer of self-mailer to test and learn how customers would react and how they converted to the different messaging offers. Small thing in the creative or small thing in the offer could have a huge impact on the revenue and on the conversion. I know that today it seems so simple and every brands are testing and all that, but back then it was slightly different.
00:01:50
Speaker
So anyway, I worked in direct marketing on the retention side for a few years, which was close to loyalty. And then I got an opportunity to join a small startup that was launching a new loyalty platform. And this is really when I got into loyalty. So I led the
The Evolution of Personalization in Marketing
00:02:07
Speaker
consulting services there for a few years until we sold the technology. And then a few years after, that's when I founded Stratelex.
00:02:15
Speaker
which is, like you said, the consulting agency. We're offering strategic and operational support in the design of loyalty program and the implementation optimization of it, but also in developing the business case related to it to make sure that it's profitable. So we work in different various sector, helping companies to build a profitable, lasting relationship with their customer.
00:02:40
Speaker
So that's pretty much it. That was five years ago. And that's pretty much how I've been in the loyalty space for 20 years. Wow. Congratulations. I love your story. And as you were talking about direct mail, I remember I started my career at Hyatt Hotels and it was
00:02:57
Speaker
a long long time ago is before the internet before the internet the way we know it and before email and we were trying to do we rogers and peppers book was out and people were talking about one to one marketing we're trying to. Do direct
Defining Personalization in Marketing Priorities
00:03:13
Speaker
mail that was personalized we were.
00:03:15
Speaker
Putting surveys in hotel rooms as people I was in the resort division. So we wanted to send people on vacation. So we'd ask the business traveler. Where do you want to go on vacation? What do you like to do when you're on vacation? When do you like to go? And we had to create blocks of copy based on each one of those characteristics.
00:03:34
Speaker
and then we put it together and oh my gosh, back then it was such an undertaking to try to do it. But it's interesting that this isn't a new concept, this personalization that we keep talking about. No, definitely not. It's been there for decades, it's been there for years and it's been so challenging for companies for such a long time now. And you're talking about that example and I remember pretty much the same and I remember early 2000,
00:04:04
Speaker
We were doing direct mailing and then we were testing email and see how it increased conversion. And we were doing emails only to the customers with the highest lifetime value because it was really expensive then. But yeah, that's interesting how it has evolved.
00:04:22
Speaker
Yeah, yet the conversation still kind of remains the same. It seems we talk a lot about customers' expectations. And probably back then, maybe we didn't have the same expectations of personalization. But today, when
Enhancing Customer Loyalty through Personalization
00:04:38
Speaker
we're giving businesses our data, we as consumers are really trying to up the game a bit, I guess, and pushing businesses to do more.
00:04:51
Speaker
I guess to that point, we know that organizations are saying, if we look at reports of CMOs and where their priorities are, personalization is always a top five priority. And when it's done that way, I look at those reports and I'm like, okay, personalization, but do we know how the CMO is really defining personalization? Is that better customer experiences? Is it?
00:05:17
Speaker
personalized emails and what's your take on that and how would you define personalization or how are your clients defining it?
00:05:27
Speaker
Yeah, you're right. It can depends a lot on how you define it. But I think that at the end personalization, everything comes down to tailoring. You need to tailor whatever you're delivering to the customer or to an individual or a specific group. And it can be the product that you're delivering. It can be the service. The communication can be an offer.
00:05:50
Speaker
or even experiences as well. But it's closely linked to the emotional side of the relationship because personalization will leverage data. And when we use data inside to tailor the experience and the message, we can definitely build like a deeper connection with the customers and we can build a long-term loyalty.
00:06:13
Speaker
I think that personalization in the relationship is what makes the customer feel special. Because when it's well done, they may not even realize that it was personalized, but they will feel recognized. And that is the magic that happened, basically. What I find as well when you talk about definition of personalization is that most of the time, when we think of personalization, we think of delivering emails and communication and offers.
00:06:41
Speaker
This
Loyalty Programs Beyond Transactions
00:06:42
Speaker
type of personalization definitely leverage transactional data for most part. But I think there's other ways of delivering personalization. And you can think of content, for example, above the offer, above the communication. Content comes next to me because, yes, it leverages transactional data, but it also leverages all other types of behavioral data. It leverages the preferences of customers that they may have shared with the brand.
00:07:11
Speaker
We can think of having ideas for a trip that is customized to us. We can think of a grocery store, for example, that would be sharing, I don't know, recipes ideas and personalizing it based on dietary preferences. The challenge is sometimes it may take a while to understand from the data, the customer preferences. So we can ask as well, and this is where sometimes company, they don't know where to start, but we can ask for customer preferences.
00:07:42
Speaker
ask them early in the relationship so we can start personalizing early in the relationship. Of course, as we learn more on the customer, then we'll have more details on their preference and then we can build on it. The other way as well where I see personalization rising a lot is in the loyalty experience. You can think, for example, of how members can earn points
00:08:09
Speaker
or how they will choose to spend their points, for example, which reward they will get. Historically, there's a lot of loyalty program, especially in retail, I would say that was purely transactional. You would earn one or 10 points per dollar, 100 points will give you $5 off or $10 off.
00:08:29
Speaker
And it's truly the foundation of loyalty for most for most program. And there's nothing wrong with it. But I think that we need to go beyond that. And now we're innovating customer expecting more. So there's so many ways, diverse ways of rewarding for non buying activities and building the relationship to these actions that range from, you know, things like referring friends and sharing information, completing surveys and quizzes or
00:08:58
Speaker
I don't know, we've seen sports brand recognizing and rewarding having healthy habits and doing sports, for example, or insurance companies as well.
00:09:10
Speaker
Those are great ways and great example, I think, to engage and reward customer in a more personalized way that is aligned with the brand value because it's unique to you if you're not rewarding transaction, but you're rewarding action that customers are taking with your brand that is specific to your brand.
00:09:30
Speaker
We sometimes
Data Collection and Personalization Strategies
00:09:31
Speaker
forget about this, but I think it's a huge opportunity to deliver an experience that is unique to each brand and meaningful to the customer. It can be very personalized and it's not like everybody does it. So let's do it kind of thing because it needs to be unique to the value proposition of your brand. You said so many amazing things there. I'm trying to take notes and keep up because there's a lot I think we can unpack and dig into.
00:09:58
Speaker
perhaps to starting with where you just ended around the you have to be unique to each brand and tying that to the data collection because when you started the conversation you talking about using the personalized data to make people feel recognized and my head went to okay great well how do I collect the data and that's kind of where we ended up when you have a loyalty program people
00:10:28
Speaker
give you consent. It is a two-way value exchange at its core. Fair? Yeah. So by using loyalty, we have a foundation to be able to collect data. And perhaps brands who are just starting out are going to ask for emails, your name, maybe gender information or something very general.
00:10:58
Speaker
How do you help coach the brand to collect the information that goes beyond that's going to allow you to get more personal? And how do you really dig into understanding what's unique? I mean, the grocery example is near and dear to my heart. I love it. Of course, why not ask for dietary information? There's so many people that have dietary constraints or choices.
00:11:26
Speaker
today and that just, that to me seems like a no brainer, but it doesn't seem like grocers are thinking about it. Companies that are, to your point, maybe selling sporting equipment, is it as easy? Is it around what activities they like to do, their families they like to do? How do you coach them and how do you help identify what those right points should be for data collection? It's a very good question because I think that you need to first understand
00:11:56
Speaker
or first define, I should say, you need to first define what you want to achieve, what type of unique proposition you have for your customers, and then take it from there. It's not a one size fits all approach kind of thing. So unique thing about how you want to personalize the loyalty experience.
00:12:25
Speaker
throughout all touch points through the whole journey, whether it's with CRM, with all the communication, whether it's the way you earn or redeem, you need to define what's unique and in the experience you want to provide, whether in store or when you're browsing online. And then from there, you can start asking customer what they want based on that because
00:12:54
Speaker
We need to make sure that when we ask as a brand for data, that this data will be leveraged to enhance the relationship, to enhance the experience that I have with the brand. Otherwise, it can create a lot of deception, basically. So you need to think of that first, and then it's a team effort. Having a data strategy, starting personalization, is not just a marketing initiative.
00:13:23
Speaker
It will definitely involve the IT team. It will involve the BI team, data management. It will involve your new customer service, and why not your employees in stores as well, or customer-facing employees, so that you capture what is needed, what are the customer expectation, and then from there, you can start small and build on it. Again, lots of things that you got me thinking about as you were talking.
00:13:54
Speaker
Curious on the data collection side, do you ever recommend or do you see companies asking different questions to different segments of the population? So if
Innovative Data Gathering Methods
00:14:06
Speaker
you know somebody's buying maybe certain products based on that product set, asking them different questions or do companies tend to ask questions that just relate more back to the brand to begin with?
00:14:21
Speaker
Once again, depends what you want to achieve. But yes, no, definitely you can ask different questions based on different segments. The customer that is highly engaged with your brand will be willing to share more information about their preferences and about their lifestyle even than a new customer or than an occasional customers.
00:14:45
Speaker
So definitely you can adapt the same way you will adapt the frequency of communication, that you will adapt the type of rewards in a loyalty program that you will offer based on the different segments. You will definitely adapt what you're asking customers as well. Definitely along with this, when you say we can ask different information to customers,
00:15:07
Speaker
Because there's a lot to learn and the more you share, the more I will get a personalized experience. So I think that you can go on and for high frequency, highly engaged customers start asking, what are their other favorite brands? What do they like in terms of lifestyle?
00:15:29
Speaker
events and sports. And if it's related, then you can buy back to your brand and enhance the relationship. Yeah, you can definitely ask for it. And when you ask people, so I'm going to get into how you do it, do you ask them all at once or do you ask them
00:15:51
Speaker
Over a period of time, like do you kind of just do like little bread crumbs throughout their experience and try to do it in, I guess, more of an interactive kind of fun way. And is that again more preference for the brand and the type of customer it is?
00:16:09
Speaker
No, I think there's probably a rule there or unwritten rule where you should not ask for too much at once. I always make a bit of a joke of when you sign up for either a newsletter or you join a loyalty program, you're not filling out your income statement. It needs to be light.
00:16:30
Speaker
So you only want to ask the minimum information to start the relationship. And then you build a relationship, whether it's with a brand or individual, is built on trust. And before I share too much information, you need to build that trust. So you can start small, ask for minimum information like
00:16:52
Speaker
the email, like you said, definitely the opt-in. It's one thing that you need to capture right from the start. Email, name, there's some information that you can ask if it's relevant, for example, to ask for their birthday because you're having a birthday gift as part of your loyalty program, then it makes sense. But definitely, you start small and then you can, as part of your onboarding process, start asking for questions about their preferences.
00:17:19
Speaker
I think that an example that comes to mind is Sephara that does a really great job at this. You join with email and opt-in, and that's it. And then during the onboarding process, they will ask for your preferences in terms like skin type. They will ask for your beauty routine. And then grow slowly and ask slowly throughout your journey to learn more. So no, don't go and ask too much right from the beginning.
00:17:48
Speaker
it may feel a little bit overwhelming for the customer. You need to build that trust, you need to gain the trust, and then slowly start asking for more. And you said it, like, gamifying this through quizzes, rewarding surveys and things like this, it's always more fun as well to share information when you know you have something in return. Yeah, I think that that's wonderful.
00:18:17
Speaker
I think I've shared this before, but I had a experience with Neiman Marcus, actually. They came and they claim they were putting me into a special VIP program that I got six months for free. And then I said, okay, sure. Let me go check this out. This sounds cool. And they put me through a series of questions and it was all at once. And I didn't actually mind the length there because
00:18:44
Speaker
They set it up where it felt like I was getting something special from that. But one of the things they did that I thought was interesting and just want to get your take on it is it wasn't just a question like North Face will ask you what outdoor activities do you like and you can select from the different ones. They served up images.
00:19:03
Speaker
And to which image do you relate to? So there would be, I don't know, a businesswoman walking along the street. And then the next one would be a leisure active runner or something. And you could click on as many as you wanted. And then some of it were just destinations. Like, oh, here's a beach. Here's a ski hill. Here's whatever. And just so they were trying to understand, I guess, who I was. And the imagery was kind of interesting.
00:19:33
Speaker
just kind of curious if you've seen anything like that. And it seems like a lot more science would need to go on in the background with that. Yeah, definitely. But I love that example. I've never seen that honestly, but I love the example because
00:19:48
Speaker
it within a single image you can tell a lot about the person because you said like if it's a business woman on the image or or something more leisure or somebody running for example then you skip all those questions about you know what's your favorite sports and what's your where do you work and where do you live and all of that so
00:20:07
Speaker
Within one single image or a few images, you can tell a lot because you have a lot of concept behind those images. It feels maybe a little bit less intrusive as well as you answer those because it's fun. You're clicking on images that represent yourself. It's interesting because you're sharing a lot in there without having the heavy form of
00:20:30
Speaker
click, click, click. So I actually really like that example. I may even use it. I'll have to see if I still have the link and see if I can send it over to you if it'll work. It was fun. But then you started to analyze because you knew who was asking. And so there was a picture of somebody reading a book under a tree. And then you look at what they're wearing.
00:20:54
Speaker
Is it about what they're wearing or is it about the activity? Yeah, that's true. There's the challenge of, do you identify physically or in terms of fashion or in terms of with all that is in the image? That's true. It can be definitely a bit more challenging in this sense as well. Why have you identified? That's true.
00:21:19
Speaker
why have you identified to this person? So there's a lot that can be behind this. So you said there's
Cross-functional Support for Loyalty Programs
00:21:25
Speaker
probably lots of science behind all that. But I think in some way, it can be a nice gamified way of capturing data. But once again, it needs to be used. So it needs to be leveraged. You don't want to ask just for asking. And it needs to be transparent as well. Because when you start answering and clicking on those images,
00:21:49
Speaker
you were wondering, why are they asking this? Then it can be negative and the experience can become a little bit edgy, I would say, because you still need to gain the trust and you still need to be transparent about how you will use that information. So there's two sides to it, I would say.
00:22:09
Speaker
I think that's key and that's super important because yeah, you are giving them a lot of information. It's kind of fun while you're doing it, but after the fact, it's like, okay, now what? Now, where's my good stuff? And if they're not delivering it, then that's, you took all that time and effort up front and now you may have turned a really great experience into a poor one where you could have done nothing and maybe actually had a happier customer at the end. Yeah, that's right. Which is interesting.
00:22:36
Speaker
So you also mentioned to do personalization and you're going to collect all this data. If you send the marketing team, you're going to need a lot of support of the rest of the company in order to do this. Well, the loyalty team is typically found in marketing.
00:22:54
Speaker
What other areas within the organization are needed when you're working to put together programs like this? And in my mind goes to an analytics team. And I know earlier you had mentioned support from different areas. So I just wanted to dig into that a little bit as to who needs to be on that cross-functional team in order to help or in order to ensure that the program is effective
00:23:26
Speaker
Yeah, there's a much larger team like it's cross functional like you said that needs to be involved now when you start a loyalty program and personalization program. The loyalty team or the CRM team is key in there and the analytic team as well because they will bring all of the insight but there's impact on all aspects of the company and the IT team will also be important because
00:23:55
Speaker
you can capture a lot of data and all that data can live in silo. And that's what we see with a lot of companies. It's challenging for small, but even for large businesses to centralize their data. So this is where the IT team will obviously comes to hand as well because they need to plan for this. And there's everything that's related to data security as well. But over and above all that,
00:24:22
Speaker
technical stuff that needs to happen with the data and the data security and the centralization of data. You need to get the right insight. There's the data analyst, but you need to get insights on the customer. Your customer service team is key in there as well because on a daily basis, they speak to a customer and they hear there's a voice of your customer basically. It's the same for customer-facing employees. They speak
00:24:50
Speaker
what their expectations are as well. So I think it's key to always involve those teams in the delivery or in the planning of any personalization, programming, any loyalty program. They bring insight and they bring answers that you will not get otherwise. The other area as well, I think that is key, is your product team.
00:25:16
Speaker
At the beginning, it may sometimes get challenging when we say bring the product team to the table because they say, well, why? Well, because they will first learn a lot about the customer insight and they know a lot about the product as well. So they can be involved to personalize the product and as a product or product and services. But they can
Post-pandemic Loyalty Importance
00:25:38
Speaker
bring a lot to the table when we start thinking about how do we customize some of the offering?
00:25:43
Speaker
because they know so well the product. And there's all that, that's another area, but there's everything that can be monetized in terms of data as well. And the product team will be key into this as well, into the data monetization, leveraging with the different teams internally. Thank you. It takes a village. Yeah, it does. It takes the whole company for it to really work well. And I think that
00:26:12
Speaker
We've all heard it. There's a lot of noise out in the space when we talk about loyalty. Some people react very positively and some people will react more negatively because I think that a lot of people will think, oh, loyalty means discounts. It means transactional. And everything that we've talked about here today is really elevating, I guess, your program, but also your customer experience by using
00:26:40
Speaker
a loyalty strategy to collect the data necessary to be able to deliver better experiences and to really elevate the brand through that. And a lot of times why people I think think about loyalty in a negative way is because loyalty and loyalty data tended to be very siloed as well. So it was very transactional, it was very siloed and maybe
00:27:05
Speaker
It was kind of a fulfilling prophecy that way because if the data wasn't shared, there was only limited amount that the program could actually do. And in today's world, with all the digital transformation, the data can flow better. And when we're thinking about it the way you are, the way you're advising your clients to be more strategic, more engaging, more customer focused,
00:27:33
Speaker
were able to really have loyalty be a part of the rest of the organization and really part of all marketing efforts, really integrated throughout, I guess. So I'm thinking if there's a website on your website, there shouldn't be just a login to know what your loyalty points are. You should be able to see loyalty throughout. So if you're earning points on purchases, what is it? If you could redeem points for purchases, what does that look like? Very basic
00:28:03
Speaker
example, but it seems like we're kind of finally to this point that we can really be elevating. Yeah, yeah, no, definitely. And loyalty has been there for many years, definitely. And in the recent years, and I say I think specifically since the pandemic was huge for this, but everything that's related to digital transformation
00:28:28
Speaker
We see a growing interest from companies of all sectors. It's
Loyalty Programs vs. Discounting
00:28:33
Speaker
funny because last time we chat and I noted that, you told me that we finally have our moment in the sun. I loved it because I thought it was so true. When a brand is launching or revamping an existing loyalty program, we see the personalization and we see the emotional component growing as part of it.
00:28:55
Speaker
And I think that one of the key reasons for this is that brands and companies, they're no longer competing just for product and services. What we see right now is they're competing for the customer's attention. They're thinking for their trust and for their data. And loyalty can definitely help in all three aspects.
00:29:20
Speaker
And that starts with transparent data collection because like I said, we've seen an increase in e-commerce and digital engagement and
00:29:30
Speaker
I think that if we look back, the context of the pandemic and the economy was so that the customer had money to spend in the last few years. In many sectors, the demand of consumers was even higher than what brands could deliver. But today, we're witnessing a bit of a change in situation. So there's the inflation, we're talking about recession, and customers are
00:29:54
Speaker
being more hesitant about their spend and definitely more conscious about their spend. So this is where I think that loyalty program can contribute definitely to keeping customer engaged with brands. But at the same time,
00:30:08
Speaker
It's interesting because it allows company to avoid the discounting trap. You were talking about discounting a bit earlier. And that's true every day. It's true, but it's especially true in the current economic situation because business may be a little bit slower in some cases. You don't want to give it too much margin. And a loyalty program, a loyalty strategy and personalization program is a much more
00:30:36
Speaker
sustainable business model than anything you can have that's related to discounting and heavy discounting. I love it. Everything you just said there, it's so spot on and I think it's a really great way for us to wrap. Today, we're competing for customer's attention and for their trust, and then utilizing loyalty the right way, the way that we've been talking about it allows
00:31:06
Speaker
for a more sustainable business model. And for a lot of reasons, it's making the customer feel more closely bonded to the brand and done well. We didn't really touch on this, but we're in theory making the customer's life easier too. If we're serving on things that are very relevant, they don't have to be asking the questions. They don't have to go dig on our site to figure out what they want or find what they want.
00:31:33
Speaker
we're being more proactive in serving that up. And so we're saving them time, money and effort just by being personal. And so I think that, yeah, really, really great way. I'm not summing it up nearly as well as use editors eloquently, but that was fabulous. Is there anything else as we're wrapping up here that you would like to share? Anything that or any less bit of guidance for brands who are
00:32:02
Speaker
digging into this because we all know it's super easy to talk about, but it's a lot harder to get done. It is definitely
Trust and Transparency in Loyalty Programs
00:32:10
Speaker
a lot harder. I think the one thing that I will say it's about transparency. There's a lot of challenge right now with the new regulation on data privacy with how we can use that. So I think that being transparent is key in there.
00:32:30
Speaker
customers, they're aware that their data is being used and they're expecting more out of it, but they're expecting to understand how it's being used. So what I think that organization must be sensitive to when they start a loyalty program or when they start any personalization initiative is what data they're asking customers to share.
00:32:55
Speaker
you maybe were referring to earlier, you may want to capture as much data as possible, but with very limited capability to use it. So I think that that's key. The transparency is key. So it is definitely like common knowledge that if I'm being identified with a loyalty ID at the time of purchase to earn blind, that you will track my purchases. But on the other side, and I'm sure you've had this experience as well,
00:33:25
Speaker
where you've been talking about a product to a friend or your partner at home, and then suddenly your phone is bombarded with advertising about this product. To me, this is definitely not cool, definitely not fun, and not what I refer as being transparent. It is definitely creepy and something that I think we'll see brand move away from and I hope we'll see brand move away from.
00:33:53
Speaker
Because yes, when you have the data, you have the power to own the relationship with the customer. You can influence a lot in the relationship with the customer, but you also have the responsibility to gain and maintain their trust once again. That's key to me. Yeah, you've said it a lot. So definitely one of the things to take away is trust. And it's fundamental to any relationship. You need that transparency. You need the trust.
00:34:23
Speaker
And especially in today's world where our customers are so savvy about the data they're giving, and they expect it. And I think that begs,
Final Thoughts on Implementing Loyalty Programs
00:34:33
Speaker
then, as you get started, crawl, walk, run. You don't need to collect all the data you can possibly collect on somebody. You can, as you referenced with the Sephora, do it in stages. And that way, you can test and learn. You can take this in. You can try some things.
00:34:51
Speaker
and then you can build upon it over time. So you definitely don't have to start and try to boil the ocean to get started. No, definitely not. Yeah, that's right. Well, terrific. Well, thank you so much for taking the time today. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thanks for having me. Yeah, so one last thing. How can people get a hold of you if they'd like to chat further?
00:35:13
Speaker
Well, they can definitely, I guess, visit our website at Strutalex.com. They can also simply reach in by email at andreaanatstrutalex.com. And I'll definitely be happy to set up a call and discuss loyalty. Terrific. I encourage everyone to. She's got a lot to say. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks for listening to this episode of Get Personal with Loyalty. Join us next time for more Loyalty Insights. Until then, dare to dream.
00:35:42
Speaker
Let Annex Cloud help make your dreams a reality. Visit annexcloud.com. See you soon.