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12. Settling Into Paradox
66 Plays3 years ago
Today’s conversation is driven by the undertone of paradox and getting caught between rationality and mysticism. We explore the pitfalls and the necessity of paradox in the discovery of oneself and the mysteries of reality.
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Music By Nathan Willis RIP
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Transcript
Introduction to Pursuit of Infinity Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello and welcome to another episode of Pursuit of Infinity, a podcast where through conversation, we try to brush up against the edges of the grand mysteries of life and what we call reality. Part of
Confronting Paradoxes in Existence
00:00:12
Speaker
taking this trip as you'll find, or have probably already found, is being confronted with paradox. It's unavoidable and actually a necessity for understanding the deepest levels of complexity that underlie the fractal nature of all that exists or doesn't exist.
00:00:30
Speaker
Today's conversation is driven by the undertone of paradox and getting caught between rationality and mysticism.
Supporting the Podcast & Content Teasers
00:00:37
Speaker
But before we get to that, if you'd like to support the show, the easiest way to do that is to subscribe and leave us a five star review on your platform of choice. If you're feeling extra altruistic, you can visit our Patreon at patreon.com slash pursuit of infinity. We're also on Instagram at pursuit of infinity pod. We have some exciting stuff coming, including our YouTube channel. So keep up with our progress there and everything that we're doing on our Instagram.
00:01:06
Speaker
So without further delay, I hope you enjoyed today's conversation and thank you so much for listening.
Accepting Paradoxes and Deconstructing Beliefs
00:01:36
Speaker
One thing I've been thinking a lot about recently is being comfortable with paradox. Yes. So there are so many paradoxes along this path. I use, I feel like I use that word path too much. I need to figure out a better way to like describe the thing that we're doing here. I mean, path is probably one of the better ones even. Cause otherwise you're going to be saying journey a lot. There's a lot of journey. Yeah.
00:02:06
Speaker
It's the path where we're along the path. I know what you mean though. Yeah. But in terms of the path, there are just endless paradoxes and in order to like get through it, you have to, you have to understand and be okay. And I guess just to be comfortable with paradoxes and understanding them and not fighting against the nature of a paradox.
00:02:34
Speaker
Yeah like I've noticed the paradoxes are just huge and like just in general like the counterintuitive nature of like a lot of this stuff but yeah it's huge for me that's why like if you ask me a lot of this you know this the work oh that's better than the path but what we're doing the work or whatever
00:02:58
Speaker
It's less about adding knowledge or adding stuff more like more of it is
00:03:05
Speaker
getting rid of the stuff you had before, like all the knowledge that you've had, like kind of ridding yourself of stuff. And like, that's why I like talking a lot about like deconstructing a lot of your beliefs. Because like, like they say, like you are love, like you are it. It's like you don't have to do anything. It's just you have to just be and allow it. You know what I mean?
Unity of Religion and Science
00:03:30
Speaker
It's not like there's much you have to like,
00:03:34
Speaker
Of course, your actions are everything and doing the work is everything. But essentially, for me, I like looking at it more of peeling off the layers to get to the core rather than building up into something. Because that's what you'll hear a lot of people say stuff like, you'll hear people say, you're already there. That's a thing I've heard gurus say. And it's kind of corny and stuff because
00:04:04
Speaker
Clearly you're not where you need to be, but like where you want to be, I should say, but you have, you already are it. It's just the realization, like the awakenings and whatnot. The nature of what you just said is a paradox. All of these Zen teachings seem to be.
00:04:26
Speaker
captured within a paradox. And that's where the confusion comes. Like when you get like a teaching from a guru and you have to like sit with it for a while, like, Oh, like what, you know, what did he mean by that? You know, um, you're sitting with the paradox and your, your mind is trying to make critical sense of something that it can't
00:04:52
Speaker
It can't make critical sense of, and that's where the whole paradox thing comes in. Cause like, if you're not comfortable enough to accept the paradox, then you are bound to forever continue the quarrel between both sides of that said paradox. Yeah. It's like.
00:05:08
Speaker
Well, especially just through our culture and maybe just how we are naturally like we're just so left brained and so like logically thinking like we value rationality and logic so much that we've turned it into what we believe is true. And that's just how we get to what truth is. It's crazy. So like one of the things I love to do is it's like a good exercise for anybody else who would want to do it is
00:05:36
Speaker
is deconstructing all dualities or just collapsing dualities. Think of any duality and find a way that it collapses because it does, everyone does. One of the best ones I like to mess with is religion and science.
00:05:55
Speaker
Because there's such like anytime you can think of something and you that there's always something that is pinned up against it like a polar opposite. But all those dualities end up collapsing and you can get there like both like let's say with science and religion like both require faith like they get a scientific person will like laugh at faith and say like
00:06:21
Speaker
to like the religious, like, oh, you just have faith in a bunch of myths and symbols. But, uh, the scientific minded that would have faith in reason, you know what I mean? They, they put all their faith in their reason and rationality. And they also have put all their like belief in myths and symbols, like,
00:06:46
Speaker
It's pretty nuts, but you could just go through stuff like that. Like, um, let's see, like, uh, teacher and student, like those, you can say that's a duality there, but the teacher is learning while they're teaching the student. And therefore the student is also a teacher by teaching the teacher. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, the, the trouble comes when you identify as either teacher or taught. That's where the
Emergence and Consciousness
00:07:12
Speaker
paradox comes in. That's where the duality comes in. And that's where you can, if you break that down.
00:07:18
Speaker
all dualities form or participate in the same unity, which is a paradox. To say that everything is two, but everything is also one, doesn't make sense. But you have to explore those two ideas to their absolute depths in order to understand what a guru means when he tells you, as Ram Dass said, his guru told him, love everyone, but tell the truth.
00:07:46
Speaker
So he, he said, if I tell the truth, the truth is I don't love everyone. So what am I supposed to do? And like you could, you could sit on that for like years and that'd be your only teaching. And you can gain so much from diving into the depths of both those concepts or another good one. But I heard him say recently, the path is not difficult to those who have no preferences. Yeah.
00:08:17
Speaker
Yeah, that's a good one. Because it's with your identification to your preferences and your identification to the dualities, I guess, so to speak, you are exemplifying your separateness instead of exploring the mystery. So another thing that I like to think about is like the unity of opposites and
00:08:47
Speaker
how two separate things when put together equal more than just the sum of its two parts. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Like, um, what comes to mind is, uh, like dragon ball when they do fusion, right? They're not just adding to each other's like power level. They're significantly multiplying it as well, because
00:09:10
Speaker
You know, you don't always just get the sum of two parts when you mix two things together. It's like, uh, there was a concept in college. Uh, when I studied graphic design is a concept called visual verbal synergy, where you can have like words and then like an image and separately. Like those two things don't really mean too much. They're very separate. They're not, you know, they're just kind of floating out there in the ether. But then when you put them together in like a skillful way, you can.
00:09:40
Speaker
Just with one passage in one picture, you can, you can say a, you know, a valuable lesson of a million words. Right. Or like, uh, it's like the organs and the human body, you know, put the organs together, you get the human body. Absolutely. Which brings me to another really cool concept. Have you ever heard of like emergence as a concept?
00:10:02
Speaker
I mean, yes, but I'm not sure I know what you're going to say here. Well, I mean, actually it's, it's along the same lines of what I was just saying. It's like, when you have like a whole bunch of things, like the cells in a body or like the organs in a body.
00:10:15
Speaker
those things separate if you just took all the organs and you put them on a table or you took all the cells and you just kind of like separated all of them then what you get is just a bunch of cells or a bunch of organs or whatever right but when you put them together and you sink them perfectly within
Consciousness as a Fundamental Constant
00:10:30
Speaker
a human body the way that it is what emerges from that is human life and consciousness well maybe not consciousness but the tuner of consciousness or
00:10:38
Speaker
Like something emerges where you create something brand new out of a bunch of individual parts that really have no business, you know, in the business of life. So I guess like one of the ultimate questions that we sort of.
00:10:54
Speaker
gear ourselves toward is so how does consciousness emerge? What does consciousness human consciousness emerge from? Does it emerge from a collection of neurons in the brain? Or does something else emerge that allows us to take consciousness in to this physical form? Well, I would say that consciousness
00:11:19
Speaker
Well, I would say everything emerges from consciousness rather than consciousness emerges from any of that stuff. I would say that consciousness, that's why I say like it's fundamental. Everything else comes after. Like consciousness is a constant. It always is, always has been. So all the other stuff is usually just our imagination, our reasoning, our rationale, this type of stuff like adding to it. So nothing is prior to consciousness.
00:11:46
Speaker
Everything is is consciousness. Yeah, because I mean, if there was something prior to consciousness or some sort of condition to which consciousness can arise, then. What could it could what could be aware of that? You know, yeah, it couldn't be so like there has to be awareness in order for anything to be like that's kind of. So is another word for consciousness awareness? I use them basically the same. I mean,
00:12:17
Speaker
Sometimes it's like if you keep saying consciousness over and over again, it starts to feel like it loses its meaning. I like to use awareness. Same for me, I also say God is synonymous. You could replace consciousness with God. A lot of people wouldn't be comfortable with that one. They're the same things. Yeah, it's all the same thing.
00:12:42
Speaker
It's what everything is. It's what everything comes from. And it's like, I like to say that consciousness, God, reality, whatever you want to call it in the absolute sense is an infinite intellect. So like, kind of like an idealist would say like, that everything is mind. Like Neil deGrasse Tyson says, like, you're made of star stuff.
00:13:09
Speaker
And I would say that you're made of mind stuff. Like everything is mind, like basically like God's dream and God can dream infinite dreams. And he does. It does. So it's,
Unity and Duality in Consciousness
00:13:24
Speaker
I like to look at reality. That's how, where I'm at right now, looking at it as more dream-like rather than like a physical manifestation or anything. Cause like it's funny cause we're really,
00:13:39
Speaker
we are so behind when it comes to like science like in in culture because like dude culture for like over a hundred years has already found this stuff out like with uh quantum mechanics they've already discovered that
00:13:59
Speaker
that particles aren't real. Like it's not a real, it's not matter. Like particles, electrons, that stuff is just concepts and theories that work. They're pragmatic, but they're not actually real things. Like in quantum mechanics, they've found out that there is no actual material to those things. So like, and it's crazy dude, cause I was looking into this today and um,
00:14:30
Speaker
like Albert Einstein, Heisenberg, like all these crazy like physicists like from a hundred years ago.
00:14:39
Speaker
they were all like basically mystics. Like I was like reading a lot of their quotes and it's really insane. They all talk about God. Like dude, Schrodinger was like, he was like a mystic straight up, but he's the one, you know, I'm sure you've heard of like Schrodinger's cat where like the cat's in the box and it, it could be dead or alive or neither or whatever. Like basically what he's saying is that it, it's even further than that. The cat could be anything could be an elephant.
00:15:09
Speaker
Like until you are entangled with the object, it's a field of possibilities. Like that's what a particle is. It's not like a physical piece of anything. It's more of like they could describe it as like a field of probability or not even possibility. So it's just infinite potential. So that's why it's easier. I don't know about easier, but it just seems more.
00:15:37
Speaker
realistic or accurate to think of life as if we were a dream. Because we think of as the universe, we think of it like some mechanical system or something that is like physical, but it's really a lot more strange than that. We're just so steeped into this view, like this materialist paradigm. But the science has actually shown us that
00:16:04
Speaker
realism, like materialism, that stuff has already been proven wrong by quantum mechanics. And it's strange that that hasn't actually, it's like,
00:16:16
Speaker
The truth is too much for the human mind to hold or too much as a culture for us to handle. So we kind of just bypassed like these major discoveries in quantum mechanics and just, we didn't like, we didn't look at like the epistemic impact because we figured this stuff out. And like, I think it was like the 1920s, they figured out basically that the particle is a field.
00:16:42
Speaker
or this is just a way to describe it, a field of nothing, which is just infinite possibilities.
00:16:50
Speaker
And, you know, we're over a hundred years later. It's just crazy to me that, that this stuff has been discovered by science and it's not put into use into like the way we actually view the world. But it's just another thing that you could look at and confirm to yourself that reality isn't what you thought it was or as it really seems to be. A big lesson is that realizing that
00:17:21
Speaker
You aren't who you thought you were. Like when that thing happens, that's when everything changes. That's like the riptide, you know, that's the, the wave that carries you out to the middle of the sea is like understanding that you weren't who you thought you were. Cause that's, I mean, that's, that's like the launching point, you know, to the path or the whatever. Yeah. I mean, it's.
00:17:47
Speaker
I was like saying this the other day I was thinking like it's crazy how we just go about life and people aren't just constantly like looking at each other and just suddenly thinking
00:18:00
Speaker
What are we doing? Like, what is this? Like, everybody is so used to their life and they just do whatever, but nobody stops and looks at each other and be like, hold on. What is this that we're doing? What is everything around me right now? Like, what is it actually? And then the thing is, and I think one of the reasons why people don't do that is because
00:18:24
Speaker
they just simply say science. They have this idea in their head that they were taught that everything is just particles that came out of a big bang. So we understand what's happening. If you look at a person on the street and be like, dude, what is going on? What is this? Like, what are these avatars that we're wearing? What is everything that's happening? Let's be like, dude, you learn this in first grade science or whatever. Like they think it's already figured out and it's completely
00:18:49
Speaker
It's a huge mystery that people don't think about a lot of people. So they think that they already understand to a degree so they don't have to think about it anymore.
00:18:59
Speaker
Well, think about animals, like when you have a species of animal, they don't contemplate the nature of reality. They don't ask the questions that we, that we are talking about asking. So what if what we are experiencing right now or the beginning stages of the evolution of mind in a way that does ask these kinds of questions, because previously in order to survive, in order to evolve, in order to, to be what
00:19:27
Speaker
Most animal species are, you don't need to ask those questions. There's no room there for contemplation of the existential, because you're just trying to contemplate how you're going to get your next meal and how you're going to survive. And now that we've come to a place where we obviously have a higher ceiling of potential when it comes to like consciousness in animals.
00:19:52
Speaker
So maybe what we're experiencing now is like the beginning stages or are the beginning stages of the evolution of consciousness to like the next big stage. And that's why we're able to, to, to start to ask these questions. And that's why not everybody asks them only, you know, certain, some people ask them.
00:20:16
Speaker
But you could look at it another way too, that it might be harder for us to get to that than an animal. Like I was saying, if you want to witness full nirvana, just look at a cat.
00:20:27
Speaker
Like they're, you could argue that they're like Zen all the time. They don't have all this ego contemplation going on all the time. So then what do you think the purpose of, because when I said we, it seems that we obviously have a higher potential, like a higher ceiling for consciousness and conscious thought and critical thought, you seem to agree with that. So.
00:20:52
Speaker
What would be the egos role in that? Like to me, it seems that the ego is like the ultimate tool, like the greatest tool ever invented is the ego. That's like the way I think of it. Well, I would. Yeah, I agree. It's a tool. That's for sure. It's it's important, but also.
00:21:16
Speaker
Like if you look at it as consciousness, like consciousness can change at any moment. Like your consciousness as it is now is already infinitely capable. It's just right now we're not aware of it. So like there are, you know, stories of people.
00:21:35
Speaker
literally, you know, having a flip in their consciousness and experiencing the consciousness of different animals, different beings, formlessness itself. So I look at it more like everything is consciousness and right now we're just experiencing it in one way. So I don't think there's like any like real like hierarchy. I don't know if you could say like,
00:22:04
Speaker
there's just it changes in consciousness and that's it and we're as God which is where it gets weird you're able to experience all of it because you have to because it's all one anyway it's like the non-duality of it so so what I what I contemplate is like so then what
00:22:24
Speaker
What does the evolution of consciousness look like in terms of like the life of a human, maybe in a thousand years? What are the contents of consciousness, as Sam Harris would say, of a future human who has evolved to the point where their ceiling is even higher than ours?
00:22:47
Speaker
See, I, that's where I would disagree with that. Like I don't think that consciousness evolves or anything. It's not that consciousness evolves, but if we evolve to the point where our apparatus, our tool system, like our toolkit has a higher ceiling, the same way that my toolkit has a higher ceiling for consciousness than my dog. Well, you are your dog. And that's why I'm saying like you already have, there's no ceiling already is my point.
00:23:17
Speaker
There's an obvious difference between us and other species of animals. I would say still that that's just your imagination in this state of consciousness. If you are all of these things, that separation, that there are no dualities, that there is only one consciousness all shared, it's just all happening together. You're just imagining the separation.
Evolution of Consciousness and Mind
00:23:42
Speaker
The thing is you can experience all of it already as you are. It's just right now we're dreaming basically. And there's the paradox again, the paradox between unity and duality. And if you identify with.
00:24:01
Speaker
the unity, then you're not identifying as half of this whole thing. And if you're identifying as a duality, then you're not getting that all duality breaks down to unity anyway. That's the paradox. Another, I think paradox is going to be like the theme of this episode. It's like the paradox of being everything and everyone and sharing that consciousness.
00:24:26
Speaker
but also being like a separate species and being a separate individual even. But I think it's really pronounced between species of animal insect or, you know, all that, because you can really see that the evolution, because evolution is real. Like to me, there's no doubt that when you look at the history of civilizations and animals, like evolution is something that happens. I'd say it's real. It's real as a concept.
00:24:57
Speaker
Well, what is a concept then if it's not applied to some sort of physical reality in which the environment is affected and works with? Well, it's only real in your state of consciousness. So like if you, so it's a concept that humans create. So that's the way we look at things and describe it to associate with time, which is also a concept. So like if that's where it gets weird, like.
00:25:25
Speaker
If you were, uh, an earthworm evolution wouldn't exist. It wouldn't, it would, it wouldn't exist as a concept, but since in this state of consciousness, it exists as a concept. So it it's not, that's why I mean, it gets weird when you start saying like, what is real? Cause it's real right now, as we're talking about it, cause it's real as a concept, but that's all dependent on your state of consciousness.
00:25:54
Speaker
I think the other side of that is that if there is a worm
00:25:58
Speaker
who's
Realism, Materialism, and Perception
00:25:59
Speaker
crawling on the ground and then like a fully formed human with leather shoes comes by and steps on it, that is real. And the thing that sort of makes it real is the ability to actually inform and change consciousness itself because you can snuff consciousness out of a certain branch of it by stepping on the worm. But you notice as we're saying all this stuff that none of that is real. Well, by real,
00:26:28
Speaker
What do you mean? Well, that was that was my question. Kind of. That's why I like it. That's how you have to define real. And like if we're talking about in the absolute sense, all that stuff you just said isn't real. I mean.
00:26:44
Speaker
there's no earthworm, there's no man stepping on it. I think the problem with that line of thinking is that again, you're by saying the absolute, you are identifying with the unity part of it, and then you're ignoring the duality part. Well, that's why I said absolute, because like, if you're talking about the duality part of it, then we're just talking about this one specific dream.
00:27:07
Speaker
which can change whenever. Like I said, like when you're dreaming at night, you don't think too deeply about, you know, you know, like the science of that dream or this or that. It's just all happening. So right now we're just, that's why, like I said, I like to, at least when I'm talking about the absolute sense of it all. But if I'm talking about just like the scientific theory of this dream, then yeah, evolution exists as a concept in this dream.
00:27:36
Speaker
But I would say absolutely, all it exists as is a concept, same way that mathematics exists as a concept. It only exists because we created it. It wasn't happening necessarily until we created it.
00:27:55
Speaker
in this dream or it's like a quantum version of thought or something. It's like you're not the things don't come into existence until you like create the paradigm in which they thrive. Well, basically, I mean, we'll look at even like I was saying before, like the Schrodinger's box, like.
00:28:13
Speaker
The cat in the box literally is infinite possibility until you open the box. Oh, you know, I'm glad you brought that up. Let me ask you this. So, okay. Isn't that itself more conceptual than like the physical cat being in the box as an assumption? Like if you're going to take one of two positions and you're going to say, um,
00:28:37
Speaker
the cat can be anything the cat might be dead the cat could be sand the cat could be a guitar like there might not be a cat at all or there's probably a cat in there you know like those that's having both of those as as like separate thoughts
00:28:59
Speaker
It seems to me that when you talk about whether one is conceptual or not, the argument could be made that the more conceptual thought is that there can be anything in the box. Well, they're both just concepts. The only reason I bring up that is because science is the tool that we use as rational people to distinguish what's real. So like if you're going to go along that route, then you have to look to what science says to distinguish what's real and
00:29:27
Speaker
That's like our best barometer in this dream. And science will tell you what it is, is infinite possibility even. It's just that that would be just another way to look at it through science. But at the end of the day, none of it's real unless it's real.
Rationality, God, and Universe
00:29:47
Speaker
Like, like I could show you like my hand is real because it's here now and I can't deny it. But like anything you say or any argument you have, I can
00:29:58
Speaker
just deny it because you can't show me it's real. You know what I mean? So that's just one way of thinking about it. I just thought it was really interesting that science, physical science turned in on itself and said, no, this isn't physical.
00:30:17
Speaker
Discovered in quantum mechanics that a particle isn't physical matter Isn't it interesting that science makes a breakthrough when it becomes comfortable with a paradox? Like that's the whole thing when you're comfortable with the nature of something being a paradox That's when you can really figure out what is going on and see the fact that it is a paradox even though it happened like that
00:30:40
Speaker
quantum mechanics did this, and I think it was like the 1920s, we still reject it. Because deep in our human logic that we value so much, we reject anything counterintuitive or any type of paradox.
00:30:54
Speaker
I believe that the nature of reality is paradox. Absolutely. Only reason we think reason is important is because we put our faith in that. That's it. Or because we don't have any other choice.
00:31:11
Speaker
evolutionarily, we're still developing the tools to question existential reality. So we might not even be capable yet. The reason why we might be stuck in these thought forms is because we're still evolving out of a solely physical survival type development process.
00:31:31
Speaker
If you look at the evolution of animals or anything, it seems to be an evolution of consciousness. It seems to be an evolution of your capacity for thought because consciousness can mean a lot of things. But in this circumstance, I'm saying consciousness being like the capacity and ceiling of like your potential of thought and accurate critical thought. Yeah. Well, then you're just thinking about you're saying thought.
00:32:00
Speaker
not rather than consciousness. Well, yeah, we're like I'm saying like, yeah, that wasn't I wasn't saying that that is the same definition of like what you were using as like a more meta version of consciousness, but like that, like you are consciousness, not your, your thought is in consciousness, everything that's happening is
00:32:18
Speaker
Like the best way to understand what I'm trying to say is that's why that quantum mechanics fact is important. To know that if reality isn't made of physical stuff, then what is it made of? And it's made out of what I'm saying is mind stuff. And mind stuff, it's all consciousness.
00:32:46
Speaker
When you're talking about evolving like consciousness, I think like the way I'm thinking about it is like evolving critical thinking. The way I think about consciousness is, or like the way, the way I think about consciousness in terms of evolution and what it means to the evolution itself is it's, there seems to be.
00:33:10
Speaker
For lack of a better phrase, we'll say coinciding with evolution, there seems to be an increase in consciousness or conscious awareness. I like that phrase better self-awareness. You know, if a dog looks at itself in the mirror, it can clearly see what's happening in the mirror, but it doesn't have an accurate frame of reference.
00:33:34
Speaker
for the concept of like a mirror, of seeing yourself, you know, the self-reflection part of it, like being able to self-reflect, I think, was probably
00:33:48
Speaker
the catalyst of our most recent evolution from like, you know, basic hominids to mushroom eating humanoids whose brain size doubled in, you know, 20,000 years. It seems that consciousness is the difference in like the level of consciousness or like the level of conscious awareness, the ability to understand
00:34:12
Speaker
things bigger than you on a larger scale than you were able to previously contemplate. Maybe that's a good way to put it. Yeah, it just gets weird talking about it because consciousness can't evolve because consciousness is already infinite. Consciousness is infinity. So there's no room for it to evolve because it already is. So everyone believes in God. I've come to that conclusion. No matter what you say, no matter who you are,
00:34:42
Speaker
Everyone believes in God. Do they? Yeah. How? Because they have to. I
Nature of God and Higher Intelligence
00:34:49
Speaker
would disagree. If you talk to an atheist, say you're an atheist, and I ask you, do you believe in a process that is larger than yourself, that is complex in a way that you can't understand?
00:35:08
Speaker
They would just say, I believe in evolution. Well, they would say, well, just in terms of like, if you just look up into space, you know, there is a lot of stuff going on out there that seems to be perfectly intricate and complex in a way that we can't understand. So what that would mean to me is that.
00:35:26
Speaker
to you well you could you could find just a thought experiment i'm saying that's what i'm saying though to you it seems reasonable but you could find i would say plenty of people that would say that the universe the universe wasn't created by an intelligent creator i'm not saying that at all well that's what people think god is but that's why when i let me get through sort of the the thought experiment so when you think about what makes
00:35:53
Speaker
What, what would make that thing that we had agreed upon is complex and a weird process that we don't understand. What would make that quote unquote God? So one thing that will make it God would be that it is.
00:36:11
Speaker
Or it is inspired by an intelligence that is greater than ours so with complexity with. Processes that exemplify complexity comes intelligence it's just it's inherent in complexity and a process that is moving toward something because.
00:36:32
Speaker
all processes have a purpose. But Steve, this is where I'm saying there would definitely be people that would already be disagreeing with you. Purpose not meaning like
00:36:42
Speaker
you know, something woo woo we purpose, meaning like the earth revolves around the sun, because if it didn't, the earth would would be would burn itself out like that in itself is, is a reason for one of these complex things happening. So if you look at the reason behind, or the function of the universe, it, you can't deny that there is some sort of intelligence that we can't comprehend that goes into that.
00:37:11
Speaker
people do though but a lot of people but if you would sit down and explain it to them in this way it's almost an undeniable way to say like you do believe in something bigger than yourself but when you hear the word god you immediately deny it because god to most people means a dude in the sky with a you know in a throne with a big white beard who's judging everything you're doing but
00:37:33
Speaker
Sure. Well, if you say to somebody here, I'm going to explain to you what I believe God is. And if you don't like, you have to believe it. It's not that what I'm saying is that I heard what you're saying, but I'm telling you, dude, maybe you just haven't talked to enough people recently, but they will not believe a lot of people won't believe it.
00:37:51
Speaker
any of that but that's that's my whole point is that you're right they won't believe it but they but you can get them to answer yes to any of those questions and they if you don't underlie it with god sure but when you do underlie it with god that's when they say oh no no i can't i know i can't consider it woo woo or or god because science didn't say so
00:38:15
Speaker
But deep, deep in us, we all have that ability to think about things that are larger than ourselves in a complex way that we can't understand. But all you said there was that these systems, that there's a bunch of systems bigger than you that have purpose. So like you didn't get to the God part, which is like a single intellect, like a
00:38:39
Speaker
Well, it might not have to be just one single intellect. So you're saying there's multiple gods then? Well, I mean, I don't know. But what I am saying is that you can get any atheist to essentially like answer these questions in a way that you can assume that they believe in something that is similar to like what we say God is.
00:39:00
Speaker
The whole point of this exercise is that like the word God is so demonized and nobody wants to hear it, but unfortunately, it's like the only word that we have that we use universally to describe these types of things. Well, it's just because that's what it is. I mean, it's perfectly laid out. It's just, I think it's more that religion just kind of bastardize it and science too, like that it's more just people misusing the word rather than
00:39:30
Speaker
That just gives it some weird type of, like some weird meaning that isn't what it is. That's why, like you said, like every time you ask somebody, like, do you believe in God? You're asking that person whatever they think God is, if they believe that, which if they think God is something silly, they don't believe it.
00:39:49
Speaker
Exactly. It has to be defined first. If they think it's like something reasonable, since people are reasonable, they'll say they believe it. None of that even matters. Like it's just, it's weird, but like you can like get an atheist to agree to some of those things if you rationally explain stuff to them because they believe they put all their faith in rationality.
00:40:10
Speaker
God
Language and the Divine
00:40:11
Speaker
is rational in the sense that we talk about God. I think it's extremely rational to think about. I think you're just looking at it rationally because the nature of God is so counterintuitive and so much of a paradox that I think it's the opposite of rational.
00:40:28
Speaker
That's why people don't believe or grasp it. They have to either dumb it down to some fundamentalist Christian version of God or rationalize their way into just some type of system that is intelligent that makes sense when it's neither of those, that it's everything and more. It's just the infinity of it all. Quantum mechanics is a version of rational thought. It's a rational version of the paradox.
00:40:58
Speaker
You know, we use rationality and quote unquote science to get to, to quantum mechanics. And if you can get to something that's so paradoxical using rationality, I'm just saying, I think that you can use rationality to get anywhere, but you have to be open to using it in that way. That's the thing though, you can use rationality to get anywhere. And that's why most all physicists.
00:41:24
Speaker
that live today are still materialists. They use – they understand this stuff about quantum mechanics and still rationalize their way into a material reality, not knowing that it's just – like I said, rationality, it's just a tool. There's nothing true about it. It's just something us humans have to use as a survival tool. It's not used to figure out the divine or to understand God. It's just –
00:41:49
Speaker
It's not, it's not what it's used for and it never will be. I mean, you could rationalize your way into things, but it's not the same. All I, all I had to do was take mushrooms and my rationality changed. Like the way that I rationalized things is now different. So if rationality can be altered, then you can really get to these places using certain forms of rationality. It's almost like an essential tool of, of understanding the nature of things.
00:42:19
Speaker
Right. Well, that's another thing quantum mechanics proved is like there's no objective. There's no objectivity either. But what you're saying, like with rationality, it's relative, right? So like it doesn't actually mean anything except for what it means to you because like what's rational right now.
00:42:36
Speaker
to us isn't rational to somebody, you know, a thousand years ago, or what we're thinking rational rationality is, wouldn't be rational to somebody like when everybody on the planet thought the earth was flat, that was rational, because that's just we're being rational, of course, it's flat. And then, but now that's irrational.
00:42:55
Speaker
Like everything, all this stuff is relative. So that's why it's really all word games when you think about it. It's just like word games in this state of consciousness. So that's why the divine can't be described with words. Like having those type of experiences or when you have a connection.
00:43:22
Speaker
with with god or you know your higher self whatever it's just it's indescribable and you can't share it with anybody that's the thing it can't be shared it can only be found from within that's why it sounds like you could tell somebody that hasn't had the experience you could tell them all this stuff with like your deepest uh truth and just tell them like i know that this is what it is and
00:43:49
Speaker
they'll laugh at you and they'll be like this guy is stupid and he is irrational and he has no idea what he's talking about and they'll walk away and not think twice about it and be like that guy is fucking crazy but it's just it's the nature of it I mean the only way you can know about it is
00:44:09
Speaker
like searching within and it sounds ridiculous because everybody is we've been as a culture and a society we've been searching outwardly externally for all the answers which is the wrong direction so like with the quantum mechanics
00:44:24
Speaker
Looking outward, you can get, it can, it's like a finger pointing at the moon. Like the quantum mechanics, the outwards of it's the finger, but it's not the moon. Like the only way you can see the moon is by being the moon, by going within. The map is not the territory. It's a classic quote.
00:44:42
Speaker
But
Exploring Consciousness Beyond Limits
00:44:43
Speaker
yeah, the external stuff that it's just, it won't, it can only point you in the direction of the thing itself. It's so mind bending and counterintuitive. That's why like trying to talk about it and rationalize it and like explain it or try to just get closer to it with words is just like a giant maze.
00:45:06
Speaker
I wish I could do it better. There's some people out there that can, that really can weave their words in a way that gets you to resonate and say, yeah, that's what it's like.
00:45:19
Speaker
And, uh, those are some special people. Those are people who are close to the thing, you know, the Ram Dassas, the Terrence McKenna is the Ellen Watts. You know, these people, it's also spending so much time using your words, like talking about it is the way to get better at that. Cause you have to use your words. Like you could be a master at like.
00:45:39
Speaker
really understanding yourself and reality. And if you never talk about it and you try to one day, you're going to be like, uh, you know what I mean? These people are intelligent and they've been there and they, they figured out a way to communicate it. That's like a skill in itself. It's the hardest part really. I mean, it.
00:46:02
Speaker
To get there is one thing and then to bring it back and try to pass it to somebody else is like nearly impossible. You could try to point people, but it's just, it's insane.
00:46:15
Speaker
Yeah, you can really only just help people to realize it for themselves. And like, when I, whenever I think about that, like the evangelical nature of it, like I personally am in no place to tell anybody else what they need to think or how they should approach this kind of thing. But the way that like a guru does it is they will show you.
00:46:39
Speaker
the path that you need to go down in order to figure the thing out for yourself. It's an illumination of the path. It's not like people think that a guru, you sit in front of a guru and they tell you what to do and like they tell you everything with their words and they they're just like this ultra being that you know that can rationalize again that can rationalize
00:46:59
Speaker
the universe for you so that you can understand it. But no, they, that's not what they do at all. They, they play tricks on you. They play jokes and they make you do things that are ridiculous in order to, to take you down, down the path to illuminate it for yourself. So you can experience it and you can find the answers.
00:47:18
Speaker
Yeah, because that's the only way you can do it, right? I mean, nobody, and that's the, this is another paradox, but like telling somebody it straightforward is counterintuitive. Like if you try to tell somebody it, they'll turn around and think the opposite because the words can't do it justice. You have to like, like I said, it's all found from within, which is crazy.
00:47:42
Speaker
To know that you actually have the mysteries of the universe inside yourself. The mystery of everything that you've wanted to know and thought as a human being it's impossible to know. The problem with that is that you've assumed that you're just a human being. It's just an assumption or something you've been told.
00:48:02
Speaker
Like you never came up with that idea on your own. You didn't discover the human being. You were just told you were a human being and just accepted it and moved forward and thought that you hold all the limitations of the species forever and you're just stuck that way. But you're actually capable of much more and you can
00:48:26
Speaker
you can experience far more consciousness than just like what you consider standard human consciousness. I mean,
Dreams for Personal Growth
00:48:34
Speaker
I was listening to Aubrey Marcus the other day and he talked about
00:48:38
Speaker
at Burning Man, he was sober one night, laying in bed. And he had an experience that you call like a seventh dimensional experience or whatever. And he said that he experienced being a bee, like his consciousness was a bee's consciousness. So he understood what it felt like to be a bee and serve the queen. And like that's something that is irrational and insane and doesn't make any sense.
00:49:06
Speaker
but can be experienced. And like so many people, I mean, relatively it's a tiny number because so many people don't have any clue about any of this or just think it's impossible anyway, but there's, you know, thousands of people have experienced this kind of thing. And like now with the stuff I'm reading about the out of body experiences and stuff, that's a whole nother thing that you can do with consciousness that everybody can
00:49:35
Speaker
experience stuff that sounds like it's out of a movie, basically. It sounds like it was written in a comic book or something. It's just absolutely insane. Yeah, I mean, I've experienced some of those weird like consciousness shifting into other beings sort of experiences too, like with mushrooms.
00:49:55
Speaker
um, and telepathy as well. Like telepathy is something that people experience. I've experienced telepathy with psychedelics like a bunch of times. Yeah. Same. Which is real weird. That's like, seems like a, I don't know if you'd say common, but that seems like a more like one that.
00:50:10
Speaker
Like basically will happen to you if you, if you mess with psychedelics enough. And like even without, like I've had it in dreams, you know, it's just something that we can do. It's just, it's just that we look at it. We look at ourselves in so many, we have like so many limited beliefs. And they start when we're a kid, they start from when we're born, they start.
00:50:33
Speaker
When the wonder is ripped from us via languaging nature and rationalizing your environment. To me, it seems that those things sort of rip the wonder out of us because you can really tell in a child that they're closer to the thing than we are. They haven't had.
00:50:53
Speaker
society and social norms beat that out of them. Yeah. There they seem to be able to exude love easily. And notice they don't they don't value rationality. You know, they don't see as you get older, we just we get rewarded through like certain things and then just repeat. And I remember the floor really was lava. It really was. Yeah.
00:51:22
Speaker
It's crazy. Yeah. I mean, it is what you believe it to be. And, you know, as a kid, you're just completely open to whatever reality. It's like a, it's like living a dream. And that's, that's kind of, I mean, same as what we're doing now. It's just, I don't know. It's crazy. It's weird. It's like when you've been taken on like what seems like an autonomous journey your whole life. And then all of a sudden you break out of it.
00:51:50
Speaker
You're like, where, like what happened? What was I doing? Like, why was it like that? Cause like, it seems that my whole life up until the point where I started doing psychedelics, like I was on autopilot and my brain wasn't really thinking. It was just doing. Well, it's, it is, that's a good way to put it, like autopilot. Cause like, think about it. And I was thinking about it too. And it's like.
00:52:14
Speaker
At that time, you kind of walking, you kind of walk around thinking, you know, what's going on simultaneously though, thinking that it's impossible to know what's going on. So like, that's why a key thing for me was first accepting and understanding that it is possible, at least making it a possibility.
00:52:35
Speaker
to understand everything, to really understand what is happening. If you walk around knowing that you can't figure it out no matter what, you'll never even attempt to, or you'll never get close at all. It's just, it's an impossibility. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. So like a huge thing for me was when I realized that not only can I figure it out or not, I don't want to say figure it out, but
00:53:06
Speaker
I don't know, awaken, whatever, however you want to say it. Not only can I do it, but I'm the only one that can do it for me. Like there's no other way to do it except using this, this, that I am. This thing, just being this is enough. I don't, no amount of money will, will make it easier. Uh, no, nothing can change the availability of it. It's already here. We've got it all.
00:53:34
Speaker
Yeah. And like you said, visualization and like accepting that fact is a big part of it. You know, that's why they say that it's like, if you don't believe you can win the fight, you're not going to win the fight. Nope. Yeah. Not even close.
00:53:50
Speaker
You know, week by week here, you know, we've been like following your, your journey of what's going on with your sleep and with these out of body experiences. So yeah, um, let's just quickly just go over what, what you've been getting into. Well, so now what I've introduced is, uh, uh, this dream tea I've been making, I'll take it like maybe three, four times a week. So I, I do a mugwort tea.
00:54:17
Speaker
And then I throw in some Egyptian blue lotus and then I'll drink that like, um, like half hour to an hour before I go to bed. And dude, since I've been doing that, it's, it's worked like these dreams I've been having are extremely vivid and the recall is on point. So like, and I've been starting to like, you've really get some stuff out of it. Cause I wake up some of these, sometimes after doing this, I'll wake up.
00:54:46
Speaker
And remember my dream, like it's something I had just done, like for real, like it was as real as this and like, I can remember it. Just how I'm going to remember this later. So I remember this stuff and the detail to it. And I'm like starting to understand the purpose of the dreams and what I'm doing in them. And it's like.
Lucid Dreaming and Self-Improvement
00:55:04
Speaker
the way I've noticed it is like each dream like every night it's like we don't realize how much shit we're doing at night because we just forget it when we wake up and then we say oh we didn't dream but no we're like being put in dire situations and the way I'm seeing it for me right now is like I'm being put in these
00:55:24
Speaker
situations that are so deep and I'm being tested so hard in like these ways that are like with people and things that have like in my past and like all this stuff that is it's just testing me so deeply.
00:55:39
Speaker
And I'm failing so hard. Like in these dreams, I'm like, I'm cheating. I'm stealing. Like I'm, I'm putting positions where I can do like the right thing or like the pure thing or the other. And I've noticed a lot of times like in these dreams, I'm not doing what I should do, which tells me, cause I'm not lucid in these dreams, which tells me that when I'm in that autopilot mode,
00:56:04
Speaker
I would be doing that same stuff in my waking life if I was put in those situations. And it's amazing. So now it's forcing me to behave better in this state so I can progress in my dream state. So it's like I'm living these two lives. It's really crazy. And another awesome thing that I experienced is I haven't had a lucid dream in like
00:56:33
Speaker
maybe like two years that I can remember at least. And like a couple of nights ago, I took my tea and I laid down, I put on my headphones and I listened to like some theta waves that helps. And what do you know, I had a lucid dream.
00:56:52
Speaker
and it was really short and oddly enough the dream recall wasn't as good as my other dreams but I did get lucid a few nights ago and like I remember the way I became lucid was there was like a like cars driving around
00:57:07
Speaker
And I was able to like put my hand out and like stop everything from happening. I was like, okay, I'm in control. And, but it only lasted like a short amount of time. And so I got up, but at least I got there. So like I'm making progress, which is good. So I'm going to try again tonight. I've noticed that the, the theta waves really helped though. I think.
00:57:29
Speaker
Cause all the other nights I wasn't listening to any, any by, uh, what is it? Binaural beats. I wasn't listening to any binaural beats when I was having all my other dreams. I was just, you know, going to sleep with the T and having these, these vivid tests. Like I was being put through the gut and then like I'd wake up and I'd be like.
00:57:52
Speaker
damn I just really fucked up like I'm just I'm bad I'm not doing it right so like it was just like a huge realization for me so like now I'm really trying to put in the work in this dream state and it's crazy man it's like
00:58:11
Speaker
Every night it's been something wild. And like, I've noticed as a pattern though, it's like, it's been pretty, uh, pretty, pretty much sustained failure. So I gotta get, I gotta do better.
00:58:26
Speaker
And then I can tell too, it's like, it's like a purpose behind it. It's not like nothing. It's like, it's like you do better at this and you'll get, so you'll go further. It's like, there's more to go. I'm just at a point right now where I have to progress more until I can go further in the dreams.
00:58:44
Speaker
And that's making, that's making me do it in real life too.
Cannabis, Meditation, and Introspection
00:58:48
Speaker
So if I, if I behave well and do the right thing, then when I'm in a dream on that autopilot mode, I'll do the right thing there and then hopefully I'll be able to progress.
00:59:01
Speaker
That's such a practical way of using your dreams. It's amazing. Dude, it's insane. Cause like I've, and I've had like this, like a realization that it's like, I've been doing this stuff.
00:59:15
Speaker
All the time, like just be, I'm not remembering it is the issue. Like when we go to sleep, this is the realization I've had. When we go to sleep, we are being put through the gauntlet. Our soul is being tested constantly and like a very real way, but you just don't remember it. It's very strange, but like it's been very consistent. It's always had the same themes. It's had like, it's, it's really.
00:59:43
Speaker
It's really eyeopening and it's like, Oh, I've been doing this and I've been being this way every night in these tests. And I'm this, I can surely be this way in my waking state. You know, it's, it's, it's crazy. I think I had told you that I read this book called psychedelic cannabis by Daniel McQueen and I interviewed him, which that's next week's episode. I'm dropping that.
01:00:13
Speaker
a week after this one drops. Um, and what that book goes over is the science behind using psychedelic or using cannabis as a psychedelic and also like ways in which, you know, you're supposed to go about doing it. It's like half a meditation book, half a psychedelic, you know, handbook and half a
01:00:40
Speaker
That's three halves, but, and half a, you know, a scientific cannabis book. So what I've been doing, so I went out and I grabbed like a little vaporizer because he in his book, uh, recommends a vaporizer. Um, and that's what he uses in his clinic. Cause he has a clinic in Colorado, which is actually a 10 year anniversary is coming up.
01:01:03
Speaker
on 420. Pretty awesome. Yeah. We talked about that a little bit. Um, and so I've been implementing this into my nightly meditation as well. And there's been, there've been two times where I've gotten to what seems to be like the threshold, like the spot before it becomes psychedelic.
01:01:24
Speaker
And what happens is, so what I'll do is like, I'll pack up a bowl and I'll, and you know, I'll just kind of like relax into laying down and being in bed. And I, and I'll just smoke the bowl for a while, just to get myself like a baseline level, like of the medicine in me and.
01:01:45
Speaker
After I relax into that and I just chill, usually I'll watch something or I'll, you know, just kind of play on my phone and anything that I can do that's going to alleviate stress. Um, you know, I'm not going to be reading social media and things like that, you know, nothing like that. Um,
01:02:04
Speaker
And then after I can settle down, I grabbed the vaporizer, which is fully packed up. And then I'll just blast that for a while. And it seems that the mixture of the smoked cannabis and the vaporized cannabis really work well together for me, which I've noticed. And there were two times where I got to a point where.
01:02:26
Speaker
Like I'll be laying still and I'm just breathing, focusing on my breath, doing, um, what's called like a body scan meditation, which he outlines in his book. Um, and I'll get to a point where my entire body starts to vibrate like ferociously. And I'm, and I started to get like a little freaked out. I'm like, whoa, like, why is my whole body? Like shaking, like it's a, it's a ferocious vibration. It happened twice.
01:02:55
Speaker
That's the farthest I've gotten. I think what happened is like I fell asleep at some point after that, you know, like when you're laying down at night in bed, you know, hi, it's that that happens. And I think generally if you are trying to use cannabis as a psychedelic and you're going to sleep,
01:03:13
Speaker
I don't think like you're in, like you're falling asleep during the session. I think that means you haven't taken enough. So maybe you actually just increase the dose. And I mean, dude, he, he has said that people have come out of these experiences. Like jokingly, of course, accusing him of putting DMT in, in this, because you can get to like, apparently to those levels of psychedelic experiences. So who knows? You know, I want to.
01:03:39
Speaker
I want to, you know, keep pursuing this path and see, you know, where it can get me. And, I mean, who am I to say, but like, cause that sounds great, but, and, but those like vibrational states, like I've been there without weed. And that's how they say, like how, uh, the out of body experience begins, like you should get to that vibrational. And then you could, I've had that a few times, like, but I haven't.
01:04:07
Speaker
come out of body yet and like the same thing though with um
01:04:12
Speaker
with like the DMT visuals, like I'm, I'm sure like clearly this guy knows what he's talking about. I wrote a book about it and all that and you've read it. But, um, I would say that a lot of that stuff, you might be able to get that even without the weed at all. Yeah. I mean, I think one of the very first things that I ever learned from taking mushrooms is that you can get to these states without drugs completely.
01:04:39
Speaker
But each drug does have a certain role, a certain level of assistance and a certain utility that
01:04:48
Speaker
that some people find that is like their style. And for me, drugs seem to be my style. Yeah. Well, I was having, I haven't been like smoking much or taking edibles, like actually not at all, but for a while, and I want to do this again, because this was really, for me, it was perfect. It would be, uh, I would take edibles and just lay down for like three hours, like, and just do like a hard meditation. And like, I would take high doses of edibles and like, it was,
01:05:18
Speaker
It's crazy. It is psychedelic at that point. That's what I mean people. That's why I'd be interested to read that book too, because.
01:05:29
Speaker
to really, to use cannabis and really meditate and stuff. Like that, that's a whole different ball game than like how 99.9 of 99.9% of the people use cannabis. Like, yeah, that's his point. It's all about two things. Well, you just said the method in which you're doing it, like.
01:05:53
Speaker
What your brain to it being number one and number two is dosage. Nobody uses the right doses. They don't take enough. That's the problem. Does he talk about edibles at all in the, or is he only talking about flour? He does talk a little bit about edibles, but edibles are, um, feel like it might knock more people asleep.
01:06:13
Speaker
They're more unpredictable when it comes to dosage as well and stuff like that and your reaction to it. So on a more consistent basis, you can get there with like, you can control your dose better. You can control where you're at better. It never fails.
01:06:31
Speaker
And think about it, you know, if, if, if I want to, if I eat an edible, you know, I'm waiting an hour and 20 minutes for it to kick in. I don't know how that particular edible was produced. How much of the cannabis or the THC got into that slice of whatever I'm eating. It's very unpredictable. Whereas if you just smoking a bowl or if you're smoking in a vapor out of a vaporizer.
01:06:55
Speaker
You have way more control over what level you're getting and you can slowly ascend yourself to certain levels or you can stop and slow down with an edible. Dude, you, it's again, it's like, it's like taking mushrooms. Like you bought
Progress in Spiritual Practices
01:07:08
Speaker
the ticket and now you are taking the ride. So, but he recommends like going way high on the dose though, for this clearly. Depending on your tolerance level. Um, right. Right. Assuming that, you know.
01:07:19
Speaker
He suggests to slowly find, you know, and that's what I'm doing right now. Like I, I'm not going, I mean, obviously I'm someone who has a decent tolerance on a crazy weed tolerance. I have a decent one. You know, I don't smoke, you know, all the time or anything, but.
01:07:33
Speaker
Um, I have a decent tolerance and even me, I'm slowly working my way to a dose and a blend. Cause he talks a lot about blends as well, like mixing certain strains. He talks about CBN, which, which, uh, is produced from aging cannabis. So when you find the correct blend and the right dosage, it does take some time, especially if you're doing it by yourself as like self exploration, I could go to his clinic in Colorado and.
01:08:02
Speaker
you know, do his protocol and probably have, you know, a thousand percent more success. But, you know, doing it on my own, it's a, it's a process. It's like a learning process. Yeah. I'm going to, I, I'm, that kind of makes me want to actually maybe smoke and try to hit some deep meditative states. Cause it's been a while. It's just, I've been so, uh,
01:08:24
Speaker
like just consumed with this dream thing. And I think that's one of the main reasons is I've like scared to smoke because you know, the rumors about how it will kill your dreams. I don't, that sounds bad how I said that. It's true though. Smoking will kill your dreams. No, but that like, I guess, you know, they say when you smoke that you won't dream as much.
01:09:02
Speaker
Lately, and I I'm crediting the mugwort and the Egyptian blue lotus though for the the the dream recall It's been insane like whatever you're doing it seems to be spot-on because dude you are doing some really intensive work in your dreams that people
01:09:08
Speaker
I don't know how true that is. I think there's some truth to it.
01:09:19
Speaker
only dream of. Yeah. Nice. Yeah, man. It's absolutely crazy. Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. Yeah, I'm going to I'm going to I didn't take the tea last night, so I'm going to take it tonight and I might do the do the beats. The beats really made a difference, dude. I haven't I only did it once with the tea and that was the time I lucid dream.
01:09:49
Speaker
Um, but yeah, I think I'm going to try that. I'll try it tonight. Maybe with the headphones on as well. Yeah. We will, uh, we'll discuss the progress. I like talking about like the progress that we're making. Yeah. Well, the cool part about it is it's actually progress too. Like, so like, if, as long as we just do it, I mean, I've been doing it, you've been doing what you're doing and you know, it, it works. This is, you just got to do it.