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62. Funny Till Its Not with Special Guests
70 Plays1 year ago
This week’s episode was so much fun to record. We broke a record for number of people on the pod with 5. Myself and Joe of course were here but we also invited my fiancé Alana and Joe I’s Cousin Nichole along with her husband Josh. Nichole and Josh host a podcast of their own called Funny Till its not which Joe and I have appeared on numerous times so go check them out on your podcast platform of choice. Links below. We into all kinds of topics here, and we all really have a shared comradery, love and respect for one another so we were so happy to sit down with everyone here and share ideas.
SPOTIFY: https://open.spotify.com/show/12LqqjYXaXPzulWvudibLo?si=92e94aa8cf0243f7
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Music By Nathan Willis RIP
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Transcript
Introduction and Guest Introductions
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello and welcome to Pursuit of Infinity, a podcast where we explore the depths of human consciousness and delve into the fascinating world of psychedelics. This week's episode was so much fun to record. We broke a record for a number of people on the podcast with five. Myself and Joe, of course, were here, but we also invited my fiancé, Alana, who's a returning guest, and Joe and I's cousin, Nicole, along with her husband, Josh.
00:00:26
Speaker
Nicole and Josh host a podcast of their own called Funny Till It's Not, which Joe and I have appeared on numerous times. So go check them out on your favorite podcast platform. In today's episode, we get into all kinds of topics and we really have a shared camaraderie love and respect for one another. So we were so happy to sit down with everyone here and share our ideas.
00:00:48
Speaker
But before we get to it, as always, you can visit our website, PursuitOfInfinity.com, where you can not only listen to the podcast through our integrated media player, but find all the places you can follow us as well. If you enjoy the podcast, please consider a sub, a five-star rating, or even a review. These things play a crucial role in extending the reach of our discussions as widely as possible.
00:01:12
Speaker
If you're an avid listener and you want to show us some extra support, you can become a patron at patreon.com slash pursuit of infinity, and you'll get some really cool stuff in return.
Podcast Promotion
00:01:22
Speaker
So head on over there and check out the details. Give us a follow on Instagram at pursuit of infinity pod and keep up with news episode drops, memes, and general musings.
00:01:34
Speaker
Also below, you'll find links to our Discord server and our YouTube channel, which is at youtube.com slash at pursuit of infinity. All of our episodes are always posted there in video format, as well as an array of shorts. They'll be putting together on a regular basis.
Origins of 'Funny Till It's Not'
00:01:49
Speaker
Now with all of that out of the way, thank you so much for listening and I hope you enjoy this week's episode.
00:02:10
Speaker
Hey, everyone, we're here today with a few special guests. We've got five people on the podcast today, which is a lot more than we usually have. We're joined today by returning special guest, my fiance Alana. Yo.
00:02:27
Speaker
And we are also joined by, of course, my co-host, Mr. Joe over here. Howdy. And our other two special guests are two of our most beloved humans in the world, Joe and I's cousin, Nicole Albanese. Hello. And her husband, Josh. Ciao. Now these two special people are hosts of the Funny Till It's Not podcast. So why don't we just start off by talking about your podcast, what you guys do, how often you release episodes, anything you want to share about your podcast.
Humor in Conspiracies
00:02:57
Speaker
Sure. We release every Tuesday. I really don't know what to start out with. I guess how it came to be. We used to play magic every... It was Saturday, still, right? So we played magic every Saturday with a big group of people and then it got crazy expensive and we were like, can't keep up with it anymore. And I still wanted to hang out with
00:03:25
Speaker
the friends that I had and I was like, Oh, just I guess I'll just try to do like a podcast or something. And then I found out you had started your podcast. I was like, Oh, that's fucking awesome. So I wanted to jump right into there with that stuff. And I thought what better way than what I typically talk about anyway, which is conspiracies. And I thought the easiest way to convey conspiracies is with comedy because it
00:03:48
Speaker
kind of like grounds it a little bit more, I feel like it, you know, reels them in like, oh, this is kind of funny. And then when you slam the truth on them, they're like, oh, oh, man, this isn't funny.
00:03:58
Speaker
Yeah it sort of disconnects you from like the truth as well and from the negative aspects of the conspiracy I feel like and I do like the fact that you put in commercials and you put in like funny stuff because it does it makes it a lot lighter takes away from a lot of the really harsh aspects of some of the stuff you guys talk about because your topics are heavy. They are heavy and we don't I.
00:04:18
Speaker
Originally, I wanted to shy away from like the heavier stuff and I was like, I don't know if I'm going to get any flack, but then I I just don't care anymore. I really don't. It's it's my opinion and it's not even like held in like concreteness. Like I'm always viable to change my opinion on it and everything. I'm just I'm researching and giving the facts. So in terms of topics, what are some of your guys favorite topics that you've talked about so far? I like all the cryptid episodes because they're funny.
00:04:47
Speaker
This is they get goofy. Some of the cryptids are goofy. They get we get real creative.
Inner Monologue and Visualization
00:04:53
Speaker
I also like the Titanic. That one was really good. That was a good one. Yeah, I like that one. That was funny. There were just a lot of things that you didn't think about or didn't know. And I was talking to a few people and they were like, oh, do you really think that those conspiracies could be true? And I'm like, I mean. People doing dumb shit for money.
00:05:15
Speaker
Yeah, I do think that might be true. Pretty much the basis of all conspiracies, right? Yeah, if you like, you notice, because like you said, you know, you put comedy into it to like lighten the mood. It's like conspiracies in general are basically all doom and gloom. If you don't put comedy into it, like there's not, I can't think of one positive conspiracy.
00:05:35
Speaker
There's nothing about a conspiracy that's like uplifting. It's all like killing people or like lying to the public, mind control, all this different type of stuff. It's like, so you got to add some light to it or else, you know, it can get pretty dark going down those avenues. Even a feel good one like if.
00:05:53
Speaker
I mean, I don't feel it this way, but some people think that God is some conspiracy theory. You think that would be positive, but then you go, you look at the church and all that other stuff, you're like, oh, there is a lot of dark to the positive sides of it. Yeah, absolutely.
00:06:09
Speaker
One of my favorite episodes was the inner monologue one because I love that one. I want to do a second part for that because, dude, I again, I don't believe someone cannot have an inner monologue. I just I don't believe it.
00:06:24
Speaker
Well, what they say is like people they I mean, I can believe it. It's just so foreign to me. It's like how you can think in. I guess they say they think in like images or themes or concepts rather than like a linear language.
00:06:40
Speaker
When I think about that, it makes me wonder what the benefit to that. They would say, if you're following evolutionary theory, there has to be an evolutionary benefit for that trait to maintain through time. So I wonder if people who don't have the inner monologue have some type of ability or something that benefits them that we
Journey into Podcasting and Psychedelics
00:07:01
Speaker
don't have. Because I'm assuming we all here have inner monologues, right? Yeah. They say, what, 10% of people?
00:07:07
Speaker
And like a lot of people I hear they said that they didn't know that other people have inter-monologues because it's not a topic that's discussed because it's just assumed. So like, I don't know, a few years back that article came out saying that, oh, 10% of people don't have an inter-monologue. And it seems like a lot of people saw that article who don't have inter-monologues or believe they don't. And then they're all, they come out saying like, wait, you have an inter-monologue? What's that like? So people, it's like one of those things that would never have been discussed so nobody would even know.
00:07:37
Speaker
What do you think that they increased it to 50% they think that half the population has one and the other half doesn't have one? Is that what they say? Wow.
00:07:46
Speaker
That's crazy to me. 50% of people don't. Don't. I didn't believe that statistic either. 50% of people don't know what it means to have an inner monologue. I'm convinced that when we talk about whether or not we have an inner monologue, it's about the definition of what we think inner monologue is. Do you think it's a disconnect? Yeah, exactly. Of what an inner monologue is to somebody else versus what it is to you.
00:08:10
Speaker
Exactly, because I think people that quote unquote don't have one, they think that you actually hear it with your ears and nobody hears their inner monologue with their ears. It's a, it's like an imagination. Like, do you have an imagination? What happens when you read a book silently?
00:08:26
Speaker
also it bugs me too because it's like say you don't have an inner monologue like if you consciously try to does that mean you have the inability to so if like in your mind you just can't think words linearly like is so that to me is weird there probably is an aspect to it where it's like maybe people just are misunderstanding what that could mean but I do think that there must be some people that
00:08:50
Speaker
don't have it. Because I've heard some people I would trust, some intelligent people say that they don't have one and they describe it in a way that they don't think in linear language, that they think in more conceptual imagery, things like that. So I'm sure that exists, but 50% seems wild. But that type of pole seems very hard to conduct because
00:09:15
Speaker
How many people do you ask to determine that number? I mean, I wasn't asked. I mean, I'm sure like many people, like it would be hard to land on an accurate number for that, I think. I always think polls are skewed anyway. Yeah, absolutely. They're not a good. I've never been polled in my life. Yeah. I've heard millions of polls like about stuff that is like nobody asked me who wants to go and start polling random people on the street on the inner model. Let's just do it right now. That's where we're going to get the data.
00:09:45
Speaker
I just want to ask you, do you mind a second for this poll? And they're like, give me your wallet.
00:09:52
Speaker
And the same thing happens for like when they talk about we've talked about this a little bit before is the ability to visualize. And even to me that was a little confusing because they say that a lot of people I don't know the percentage but a lot of people don't have the ability to like visualize and they usually use the example of an apple like close your eyes and visualize an apple and depending on how clear you see it is how good your visualization is. And I think
00:10:18
Speaker
A lot of people might misunderstand that as well and think that you physically see it, but it's just the imagination of it. So, but a lot of people supposedly don't have that ability either. I don't know. Does anybody here have the inability to visualize? Nope. Didn't you say Laura? Yeah. Her friend, Laura, like knows what someone looks like when she's looking at them. But if she's not standing in front of them and says, close your eyes and imagine like Nicole, she wouldn't be able to do it.
00:10:46
Speaker
Yeah, see, I think that's a better way to describe it as well, because like I mentioned, the Apple description is usually the one that's used. But I think it's more effective to ask somebody if they can visualize a person's face like that. That isn't around. And if they can't do that, then, you
UFO Sightings and Beliefs
00:11:01
Speaker
know, that determines that they have no visualization. Well, she's got a step further. It's called it's in Fantasia, right? That she has. So she doesn't have it in her monologue or the ability to see things in her mind.
00:11:15
Speaker
Right. That's the that's the step further with not only can you not not like speak or have that inner voice, you also can't do the visualizations, which is a lot less. I think that's like that might be like 13 percent or lower of the population that has that.
00:11:32
Speaker
I don't know that it's pretty easy to visualize in my opinion, but it doesn't it doesn't hold like the visual doesn't hold. It's like almost like somebody shows a flash card in your brain of it real quick. And you're like, Oh yeah, that's what it is. When I said it's like behind your eyes, Laura like freaked out and she's like, what? Like you can see things behind your eyes. And I'm like, but that's what it like, that's what it feels like it is. Like it's not in front of my eyes. It's not.
00:12:01
Speaker
What made you want to start your podcast? Well, Joey and I, we always talk about this stuff anyway. I mean, it's something we've always discussed doing. And I took a course through psychedelics today called, um, navigating psychedelics for clinicians and therapists. And the second part was, uh,
00:12:22
Speaker
navigation and self-care, something like that. And as part of this course, at the end of it, they do what's called an integration project. So you have to integrate everything that you've learned, all the things that they've taught and that we've discussed in the course, and you have to put together some sort of a project. A lot of people put together like pieces of art or some people applied for jobs and things like that. Okay. So what I decided to do for my integration project was to
00:12:48
Speaker
First of all, confirm with Joe, like, hey man, do you want to actually do this podcast because we can do it? And then after he agreed, I planned it all out structurally. We decided how often we're going to release episodes, got together a bunch of information on gear and all that kind of stuff. And I put together a little PowerPoint presentation because we had to present at the end of the course what our project was.
00:13:11
Speaker
And we just kept going from there. And it's been really cool because not only have I been able to talk with Joe, you know, once or twice a week or sometimes once every two weeks or whatever, I was able to form a lot of connections with people I never thought I'd be able to meet and talk to through interviews and stuff. And through that class, Psychedelics Today's course,
00:13:33
Speaker
I was able to have like some people on through there that I met the instructors both came on and some other people some guest instructors came on as well. So yeah, it's been cool. And for me the way it kind of manifested was like basically we started taking psychedelics together and you know.
00:13:52
Speaker
Through that process like we would you know take psychedelics have these amazing experiences and then we'd hang out and we'd start discussing like our experiences and like independently it seemed that we Both started kind of going down a very similar path in our discoveries and what you know We thought about the world reality itself in our minds our spirits all that
00:14:13
Speaker
So we would get together and talk about our discoveries through psychedelics. And we kept finding, I would say, similarities in the things we were discovering and our interests. And we'd have these discussions. And he mentioned a podcast. I was like, yeah, why not? We do this anyway. We're always talking about this path that we're going down and what we're learning.
00:14:32
Speaker
And so why not just record it? And through the podcast, it's like we get to explore our ideas and learn more. So I think it's been I mean, it's been awesome. I thought it was a great idea to do. So, you know, every week or two, we'd meet up and we have these long discussions about just reality itself and what we've learned through psychedelics. Yeah, it's been awesome. I like the journey you guys are on. I always was like, did you post anything he had?
00:15:00
Speaker
I'm always asking. It's my favorite podcast to listen to. Oh man. I learned so much from both of you.
00:15:06
Speaker
I learned so much too, you know, it's really cool being able to, like when Joe and I both come together, it's like, I have my sources of information where I go to like confirm things and you know, what I read and what I listen to. Then he has his stuff that he listens to and that he reads. Some of it is obviously there's a big overlap there. But we both kind of come to this center point where we can share ideas with each other and learn from each other. It's just it's fantastic.
00:15:33
Speaker
I wanted to ask you guys what, cause you know, you mentioned your podcast is like a lot of conspiracy talk. So when did you become interested in conspiracies? Like was there one specific conspiracy that opened the gate or how long have you been interested in this? So for me,
00:15:53
Speaker
So Josh has been obviously a huge influence with the conspiracy side, not because I never was interested in it, but I just never really thought of it as much as I do now. But there was one moment
00:16:10
Speaker
when Josh and I first started dating that I was with my friend at the time and we pulled up to her house and there was a UFO just chilling right above her house and I took one picture of it
00:16:28
Speaker
And she was like, let's go, let's go, we gotta go inside, like blah, blah, blah, blah. So I ran inside and I called Josh and he was like, what are you doing? Get back outside and record. Like what is wrong with you? And I went back outside and it was gone. Two seconds. Like it was not very long at all. I wasn't even far from here.
00:16:47
Speaker
No, it was right at the street. And it made no noise. It was all different kinds of colors. I did have a picture of it. I did post it on Facebook and everybody was like, that was military. And I was like, no, it wasn't. Like, I know what I saw. I know what I heard. And I've never heard of purple lights on a craft before around here. So I've never seen this before.
00:17:08
Speaker
And that kind of opened me up to the whole UFO thing and then I think it just spiraled from there. But I do enjoy it and it keeps life interesting. You know, I feel like if we just believed everything for face value, like what's the point then of doing your own research and finding new things if you're just going to follow the media?
00:17:29
Speaker
Absolutely. Right. Yeah. I feel like once someone has a UFO sighting, it's a wrap. Then like you said, it kind of spirals because at that point it's it's like a paradigm shifting experience. We're like, OK, well, if something that massive is true and I was told it wasn't, then you're open to other things that might also be true that you are told. Yeah, exactly. I can speak from my personal experience because the two of you would go off about UFOs. And I always
00:17:59
Speaker
had my doubts and then I had an experience where we were at my sister's house and um he well me him and our other friend we went outside on my sister's deck and we were just looking up at the sky and he made a comment like hey guys let's go on a UFO and we're like hahaha and then not even 10 seconds later we're like wait
00:18:24
Speaker
He put
Consciousness and UFO Summoning
00:18:25
Speaker
the intent out there. What the fuck is that? And it looked like a shooting star, but it stopped and the one dot expanded into I saw three. Was it you that said you saw four? There was a there was a fourth that I didn't. It was a.
00:18:42
Speaker
I didn't see the fourth one. I saw three, though, and it made the shape of a triangle, which on like, you know, unsolved mysteries or any other UFO videos that you see, that's a common shape. And I was like, OK, so I see these three dots in a triangle kind of moving on this linear grid, but it's also rotating at the same time. So it wasn't natural. And what really sealed it for me, like.
00:19:07
Speaker
you feel that excitement, but also that kind of like terror because you don't know what it is. You know, you're like, I can't look away, but I'm, I don't know what this is. And I'm a little, I'm a little scared. And what really did it for me was there were stars, like let's call, you know, the sky behind it, the canvas and this triangle as it moved over the stars, it blocked it out. So I know there was an object like in front of it moving and rotating and
00:19:36
Speaker
I, yeah, I felt fear and I was like, okay, just remain calm. And, you know, I looked, I looked at my friend and I was like, okay, do you see what I'm seeing? And she was like, I wasn't going to say anything, but yeah. And that's also what kind of solidifies it for you. I think experiencing it with someone else who also was in the same, you know, ballpark is like, I don't know, you know, people talk about them, but I just don't know if they're real. Going through that experience and seeing it, that really did kind of
00:20:07
Speaker
Solidify it for me that there is there's something out there I feel like there's there's like two avenues like like Joe said that either when you see it you're all in or you Disconnect a hundred percent. You're like, I was just seeing something. I was just seeing shit like that was and it's really easy Yeah, it's really easy for people to write that office like oh it was military or oh it was this or oh it was that he's lantern
00:20:29
Speaker
See, I think for me, like the most fascinating part of what you just said was it's so interesting that, you know, you said, I don't know if Josh, you said it, but you said, let's summon a UFO. And like you look up and then it happens to be there. I find that very fascinating that it seems at least some people would believe that there is a connection between the mind and like a summoning of a UFO or like, you know, the whole C5 process. I was going to say.
00:20:55
Speaker
makes you think there's something behind that. Yeah, basically, you get together and have a meditation with the intent of summoning an object in the sky. And people have success with that. So I find it interesting that, you know, you look up, as you know, it's like a one in a million chance that you're going to actually see something. And it happened right after some form of putting the intent out there. Well, I just want to say he's done that a million times before and it never happened. So not a million.
00:21:23
Speaker
I'm obviously being facetious, but there, you know, we'd be sitting out on the deck, you'd be like, you know, it'd be so cool right now if you and I saw UFO. And then we'd look up and be like, yep, nothing's happening. So this was no different when we walked outside and he's like, let's summon a UFO. And we're like, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then all of a sudden we're like, oh, shit, what's that?
00:21:41
Speaker
So I also thought it was weird that he said that and not even a minute after we saw it, but there have been other times where I don't know, I guess maybe the intent wasn't fully there or maybe I don't know. Nicole won't let me contact UFOs. Why not? Are you scared? Are you scared of contact?
00:22:04
Speaker
At that point, it's not that. But one time he no one that we know watches this. You don't know that. Well, I say watch. You don't know that. I just get scared around Josh's family. But one time he did was it mushrooms that you did? And it was the you were like, Nicole, I have a feeling that I need to go outside right now. And there's going to be a UFO in the sky. And I'm like, sit the fuck down. I was like, don't get up.
00:22:34
Speaker
She wouldn't let me. I was, he's like, I gotta go outside right now. There's definitely something in the sky. And I was like, sit down. You're not going outside. I was so scared. There actually was something outside that I was like, you're not. Nope. Not right now.
Podcast Dynamics and Consciousness
00:22:50
Speaker
I was projecting my energy hard. So they would have been out there. They may have been something out there.
00:22:57
Speaker
Yeah, I've found like when I've I've all the experiences I've had and it's like a UFO sighting it's always me by myself, which is like It sucks because then I have to tell someone about it and they're like cool, dude It's like now you don't get it like it just sucks being the only one there but I'm so fascinated in the topic and I want to see UFOs but then like, you know when it would happen
00:23:22
Speaker
it's like it's pretty scary like i get a pretty deep fear especially i am alone i'm like what the fuck so uh i i get it like a i don't know just like a weird feeling in my bones i've only had i'd say three
00:23:37
Speaker
Like really compelling sightings in my whole life and each time I was like Frozen in amazement and then like immediately I'm like I gotta get inside like I want to get away from this Spending like, you know hours of my life thinking about this and wanting to see it and then I see it and after five seconds It's like yeah, yeah get out of here. It's interesting I think so
00:24:04
Speaker
especially like when
Nature of Reality and Perception
00:24:05
Speaker
you see something that doesn't quite make sense like for instance like my one sighting I saw four objects that were like pretty close like extremely close like relatively and there's no noise coming from them and they're moving in a weird way and it's like it's just this weird dissonance in your head it just doesn't it's like seeing something that doesn't belong in reality so it's like a weird feeling it's like
00:24:28
Speaker
doesn't make sense. You're trying to compute it. So you're frozen for a minute, just like an amazement. And then you're freaked out and you want to get away or get, like I said, I'm alone. So I want to get somewhere where there's more people around and like tell them what happened. You know, when you try to tell the story, it never comes out right. Because it's like, you know, if somebody tells you a UFO story, I go, that's interesting. But actually having a UFO story can change your life.
00:24:54
Speaker
doesn't do it justice no never no they're like oh wow he's all triangle this guy it's like no you don't get it though it it wasn't just a triangle in the sky i do i do think that though yeah that's
00:25:10
Speaker
When you see that stuff, it just, for me, I get awestruck. Like I have to keep, and I think it's a problem when I get awestruck because the camera's not even a thought in my mind when I'm seeing that shit. It's like, I just have to get as good as a look at this thing.
00:25:26
Speaker
as possible, instead of me fiddling with a phone trying to get the perfect setting that no one's going to believe anyway. Yeah, what would it matter? 100% same thing. I've never in the experience of a sighting, I've never even thought about getting my phone out. It's just not you know, it's for me, I would get frozen. And it's like the last thing you think about is pulling out a phone. And at least in my experience, all the sightings are like, fairly quick, like less than a minute, like, yeah,
00:25:53
Speaker
For me, my longest sighting was probably about 30 seconds. And, you know, I didn't think about getting my phone out. And plus, like, I've never had a sighting with something just sitting there. It's always in motion. So even if I were to pull my phone out, get the camera ready, it would already be like too far away to get a compelling shot of this thing. So that's another thing that pisses me off when people are like,
00:26:14
Speaker
Why isn't there any good photos? Well, like there are some good photos, but also it's like try to get a good photo of a plane. Like you can't even get a good photo of a plane and they're always around and they're going slow. Like it's not a compelling argument to say they don't exist because you can't find many good photos of them. Yeah. Right. The UFO we chased. That was wild. That was real. And that was wild. So I'm sure we said this story before, but we were
00:26:44
Speaker
We were going out at nighttime, driving somewhere with the kids. It might have been sheets or something. I think we were trying to get food and.
00:26:55
Speaker
We're getting in the car and all of a sudden, right above the tree line, right above the school, there was an object, just like five lights, just in a straight line, just gliding through the sky. And I'm sorry, I'm gonna throw you under the bus, but he saw it and he threw the child out of his hands and was like, what the fuck is that? What the fuck is that? And I was like, I don't know.
00:27:24
Speaker
we get everybody in the car real real quick and we start driving and we're just follow- like this thing is just in the air just going and we're following no noise nothing I think we did attempt to get some videos but I think our phones were dying and I didn't have my phone and then we got to a place where we saw Walmart and it was sitting right above Walmart
00:27:51
Speaker
tons of lights in a line and we know that somebody else saw it because they also pulled over and they were out of their cars looking at it. We didn't, I don't think we got any good pictures of video, but that one was unforgettable. It was crazy. How close were you?
00:28:09
Speaker
the closest was it was right above like as probably like right above the school it was so that's what creeped me out so much when she first said like what the fuck is that it was how close to the ground in proximity in the air that it was and that it was no fucking noise not a single noise came out of it
00:28:29
Speaker
I find that to be like the, for me at least, that was like the most striking part was like the lack of noise, just like the dead silence. Just for how close it was. It was not a plane, it was not a drone, it was huge, it was right in front of us, and it did not make a sound.
00:28:46
Speaker
Yeah, because you can hear like, by my house, I get planes, all sorts of different planes from airliners to like little Cessna's. You can hear all that stuff easily.
Interdimensional Theories and UFOs
00:28:57
Speaker
People don't think we can't tell the difference between a plane and a UFO. Right. Like, sorry, this place is chock full of airports. Like, you're never not seeing a plane and not hearing what like you said, like, we're right by the
00:29:10
Speaker
A. B. A. B. E. And all the time there's Cessna's constantly flying out of there. There's all the air that the passenger jets that are always leaving out of there like you're right. Like once you live there, you know what these things look like. Yeah, especially like for me and I'm sure you guys to like you spent a lot of time just looking at the stars looking at the sky.
00:29:28
Speaker
So when you see something that doesn't belong, it's obvious, it's glaring. And for me with the sighting I was just talking about, it's like it freaked me out a lot too because it was right in my backyard. It was right behind my house. It's like no reason anything should ever be there. I get a lot of planes that just travel over in the direction of my house. So that's normal.
00:29:51
Speaker
But this was like low, you know, it wasn't like up way thousands of feet in the sky. And these four crafts also, they were like flying dark, it was dark outside. And these things had no lights on them. Like it wasn't like, you know, a plane has like a red, a green light, whatever. Yeah, there were no lights. There's just four white, like circular objects just silently flying. And they were, you know,
00:30:14
Speaker
it's hard for me to predict the height because I don't I've never seen it before so it's there's no reference point right but I could tell that it was these things were like super low like freaky low and yeah they just were in a formation and they just slid right over my head basically through my backyard and then towards the college and then they were gone
00:30:37
Speaker
But yeah, there's no reason anything should be in my backyard like that It's like why here why now it just didn't make any sense to me, right? No, but the weird thing was I was thinking about them and I was I just had gotten back from the gym and I was texting basically everybody because this was February 11th This was right when those quote-unquote UFO shootdowns were happening. So like UFOs were on my mind. I looked up in the sky I do this a lot. I'm like, oh, it'll be if I look up nothing I
00:31:06
Speaker
And I'm texting everybody about this UFO shoot down stuff and oh what could it be?
00:31:11
Speaker
And then I take, I had, I was taking my dog out. So I looked up in the sky one last time, just, and I looked up at the absolute perfect moment. If I would have waited 10 seconds, I wouldn't have seen anything. I look up and literally like right above me and like slightly to my right. There's a formation of fore craft just like right there. And they weren't like zooming. It was just, you know, nice and easy. Just cruise, cruise and by. And like, if I wouldn't have looked up, I would have never known they were there.
00:31:39
Speaker
Because like I said, dead silent, the dog had no, I had my dog there and my cat was there. They were just like, you know, futzing around. They didn't know anything was happening. It was like zero noise at all. I happened to look up at the perfect moment and I saw these things and I was like, my mind, the first thing it went to, because like I said, they were, it was four objects in a formation, like kind of like a V formation. And they were white and circular. So they, in my,
00:32:05
Speaker
They could have been discs or just like orbs or like ovals like they're either egg shaped or disc but from the angle of observation I was looking at the bottom so I just saw circles basically. So the first thing my mind did like in the first millisecond was like these are spotlights because they were gliding so smoothly and they were white.
00:32:24
Speaker
and they were dead silent and then like immediately after the first milliseconds like okay clearly not spotlights because that makes zero sense there are no spotlights moving around in the back of my house so like immediately i'm like okay this is something insane and then after i look at it for two seconds i'm like shit these are straight up objects ufo is just gliding in the back of my house and then like they started to get like out of sight a little bit and
00:32:50
Speaker
I thought like should I run down the road and like try to chase them and get another view but I was like so freaked out I ran inside I was like get the dog go inside I fucking ran and I kind of wish I would have tried to follow them I don't think I would have gotten too much of a better view because when I looked up it was the closest they were like as soon as I looked up they were boom right there and I want to say that they were maybe a couple hundred feet up
00:33:14
Speaker
like it wasn't like thousands of feet like they were right there but it's hard to say because I can't determine the size of what the object was but yeah no lights but they were white so I can see them against the night sky so and it was so strange because it was happening during all this UFO shoot down stuff so UFOs were on the mind I was looking for miles texting people about UFOs and I look up and there they are I was like just mind blown
00:33:38
Speaker
That in itself could be a form of like quote unquote summoning, you know, if they're on the mind, if they're in your consciousness and there is a connection between consciousness and these things that could itself be, you know, a form of summoning. Well, because like I was at the gym and it was all over the TVs like the UFO shoot downs and I was texting him like, you see in this or whatever and I get home and immediately take the dog out. So I'm still talking about it and thinking about it. And I glanced up at the sky, like instinctively every, you know, minute or so just
00:34:07
Speaker
you know what's going on up there and I happen to glance up and it's like I'm in such a calm state because I'm looking up expecting to see nothing as usual so I'm just like calm I'll look up and then it's like whoa like I guess it was right there and it freaked me out but yeah it was definitely on the mind and I found it to be like
00:34:25
Speaker
more than a coincidence because like you said it was on the mind it was like all this stuff going on and the fact of the location where I've where I saw them is really what blew my mind because I don't live somewhere like the main thing I was thinking is like why would these things be here it was just strange none of it made sense to me that's crazy
00:34:49
Speaker
You know what? I can't wrap my head around that I've thought about before. So many different types of craft have been spotted before. So is it possible that there's like one species of alien or whatever, like operating these craft or how, you know, it just, it makes me wonder like how many are there out there?
00:35:15
Speaker
Yeah, people like speculate that there's, like you could hear a bunch, like some people say there's like five different species. Some say there's a hundred or countless. And then like there's the other angle that you could look at it too, which is like that it's one phenomenon that manifests itself in unlimited ways according to the person who's seeing it. So like it could be a single phenomenon that can appear in a multitude of ways.
00:35:40
Speaker
Or, I would say the more standard view is that these are beings from somewhere else that have physical craft of different kinds that come and visit here. Or, like I said, a mental phenomenon that presents itself in a
Free Will and Time
00:35:54
Speaker
multitude of different ways.
00:35:56
Speaker
it's hard for us not to humanize and anthropomorphize everything. So when we look at the potential for another being, especially another being that has the advancement in their technology to make it here, we think that probably has a head and two arms and two legs, a torso and eyes just like us, but
00:36:16
Speaker
Like you said, it's very possible that these things are just manifesting themselves in whatever way they can be seen by us. There's a very interesting hypothesis that they're interdimensional and it's almost like the way I think of it is.
00:36:32
Speaker
If the sun is shining on me and I'm in my three-dimensional world, my three-dimensional being casts a two-dimensional shadow onto the ground. So is it possible that a higher dimensional object being or something can be projecting itself into our dimension
00:36:53
Speaker
And if it is, then it would look a certain way. It would look very three-dimensional, even though it's four-dimensional or five-dimensional or 11-dimensional. So we may not be seeing them accurately for what they are. We might just be seeing them for, you know, however they can project themselves into our dimension of perception.
00:37:16
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, you could almost guarantee that we're not seeing anything for what it truly is because we're so limited by our perception. Like we have our five senses and then we project them onto the world and think that the world is those things. Like we, you know, see, hear, touch, taste, smell. And then we think that's just our senses, you know, and then we think the world is sites.
00:37:40
Speaker
touches, sounds, smells like we think that's what the world is, but it's just our limited perception being projected outward. So you could argue that we probably don't see anything as it truly is, you know?
00:37:53
Speaker
Yeah, so like what is, that's like our ultimate question, like what is reality? You know, what's the true nature of it? Is it just, is it code? Are we, is it information? I think of it as that. I think reality is information, like consciousness content or something like that. And, you know, we as humans,
00:38:14
Speaker
dogs, cats, whatever, we develop and evolve the senses to perceive and intake that information in a certain way that co-exists or that allows us to survive, essentially. So to say that what we're seeing is accurate and is what reality actually is, probably not. And all you have to do is like take the requisite psychedelic and you understand that what you're seeing is not really what's there.
00:38:42
Speaker
Yeah, because they say we see a tiny percentage of the light spectrum alone. So there's tons of things that are supposedly in reality that we aren't seeing. We evolved with certain senses with the main objective of survival. So if we were seeing everything at once, we couldn't survive in this finite form.
00:39:04
Speaker
you know, we wouldn't be able to eat. We wouldn't be able to do anything because it would be so overwhelming. So we've just been designed or evolved to just intake enough information so we could survive. And then like you said, when you take a psychedelic, it's like you start seeing all these things that, you know, aren't
00:39:25
Speaker
aren't in our normal ability of perception. So like, if you lived your entire life in a psychedelic state, like a deep, you know, heavy psychedelic state, you wouldn't be able to maintain your physical body, you wouldn't be able to maintain, there'd just be too much. What's crazy? Did you hear about those elephants? Was it India or Africa? Where they just trip all day long? You remember that?
00:39:46
Speaker
Yeah because they eat plants. A type of psychedelic plant and they eat it all day long. And they just exist in this trip state their whole life. You know I often wonder like is that just what every animal is? Are we existing? We are existing in a trip state all the time because if you think about it
00:40:06
Speaker
First of all, it is proven that in our bodies in certain places, I think the lungs has been confirmed that DMT is endogenously created within us. So we're just an amalgamation of brain chemistry anyway that equals a perception. So to me, I think.
00:40:26
Speaker
That goes for every being that's living. We're just living in a weird hallucination that adheres to whatever like perceptual senses that we've developed over evolutionary years. But are we though? Are we just an amalgamation of brain chemistry?
00:40:44
Speaker
Well, I would say that we consider reality that we're seeing, hearing, feeling that's if you're like, as you said earlier, if we define reality based off of what we see, what we hear, what we feel, then yes, we're just we're experiencing an amalgamation of brain chemistry, but
00:41:01
Speaker
again when you take the psychedelic or when you do the particular meditation you can sort of branch away from there because it's as we were saying earlier you look inside you find the answers inside yourself or inside your mind as opposed to what's outside of it.
00:41:17
Speaker
The reason I ask is because I would say like another way to look at it would be that the brain chemistry that you observe is more of an image of a thing rather than the thing producing it. So like, for instance, like if you're terribly depressed and sad and crying and you look in the mirror and you see a contorted face with tears streaming down the face, you look at it, you see the face and the tears, the face and the tears aren't the sadness, it's the image of sadness.
00:41:44
Speaker
So when you look into brain chemistry, you could say that it's just the image of what another individual consciousness experience is. So it's not that that is what's producing it, it's just an image of what that experience looks like from the outside.
00:42:00
Speaker
you know what I mean? Yeah, you know, it brings to mind like photography, you know, in the 1800s, when they just use like the really rudimentary, you know, version of photography, you have this like crappy image, it's very grainy, black and white. And now we have these high definition cameras. So it's like, when you upgrade the tools, the image
00:42:22
Speaker
upgrades as well. But the image, it's this awesome quote that the map is not the territory. The image is not the reality. It's just the image. Right. It's not the thing in itself. Yes. So like I would say that that could be extrapolated to like, because the normal materialist view is that like the brain chemistry produces the experience, where really the experience just is. And when you look at someone's brain, you're seeing an image of their experience.
00:42:46
Speaker
not that the image or the experience is created within that chemical construction. It's just an image of what an experience looks like. Or like it just kind of happens. It's almost a result of the experience, not the other way around. We look at the brain because we say like, okay, you get in a car accident, you smack your head, and you're altered. You can be altered forever if you have damage done to your brain. But
00:43:13
Speaker
That doesn't necessarily mean that, uh, the reality itself is altered. It's just, it's the perception. It's again, it's the image that's altered. I got a question as a burning question. I had a tough time with it. I think you guys might've talked about already. Do you guys believe in free will?
00:43:31
Speaker
Did you hear about that Stanford scientist that just came out and you said that there is no such thing as free will I don't think I don't believe that like that's the Sam Harris argument to that there is no free will I me and Joe have talked about this plenty of times and if you if you're saying
00:43:50
Speaker
that you don't have free will, like you're still acting as if you do, you know? To me, it's a paradox that we have to be able to hold, that there are certain aspects of our being that are automatic that we do not have free will over, but we do have free will to a certain extent. And if you say you don't, but you act as if you do, then the paradox is off balance. See, and I go back and forth on this too. And it's like, I think it's because it is a paradox because
00:44:20
Speaker
In your first person experience, you experience free will as if you have free will. But part of me, I think in actuality that there may not be free will in the way that we normally consider it. You know, you experience the act of free will when you're kind of in an illusionary state. But if you take it to its extreme,
00:44:42
Speaker
I would argue that you don't even exist to have a free will. That's like the furthest I think you could take it because right now I would say that it's an illusion to identify with the ego and that the ego that you are identified with isn't actually true and doesn't exist. So if you don't actually exist then there's no ability for you to have a free will.
00:45:03
Speaker
For instance, I would say the free will that exists is the free will of existence. So existence is willed into existence, basically God's will. But if you consider yourself as a part that you are nature, that you're not separate from it, that it's all just happening, and you aren't identified with an aspect of it, meaning the ego,
00:45:25
Speaker
then you aren't there to have a free will to make the decision.
Technology and AI's Impact on Consciousness
00:45:29
Speaker
So I would say like, you're not necessarily ever making a decision. It's just essentially happening to what you're identifying with. If that makes any sense. I understand what you're saying. But if you bring it back down to like,
00:45:46
Speaker
I like to think about animals when I think about this type of thing, because when you talk about like free will from a human, you can get really caught up in your own mind about what it means and what I am because that's the whole basis of the question that you said, like, what is me? Who am I then? If I don't have free will, if I'm not my ego, then who am I? But I think when people ask the question of whether or not we have free will, they're asking it based off of like an ego centric
00:46:14
Speaker
uh like perception you know an egocentric point of view so if we bring it down like into the duel and i say as my ego or as my biological survival being i do have free will but then on the other side of that as you said you don't at the same time and i think that's where that paradox does exist exactly so i would
00:46:35
Speaker
from the first-person experience of the ego, free will exist. But in actuality, when you investigate the self and you start to peel apart the layers and understand that what you are isn't your name, isn't your body, isn't the thoughts you have or the ideas you identify with, and then you strip it all away and then finally come to an answer of who am I, what am I, and you realize that you're not the ego, you aren't there to make the decision.
00:47:00
Speaker
So in actuality, this goes against everything I want to be true. Because as a human being, I want to say I have free will. And in a sense, like you mentioned, it's a paradox. From the first-person sense, I have a free will because I behave as if I do. I behave as if I'm the one making decisions. But when you truly strip everything down to the true nature of what you are, which is the same thing that all of us are, is the same single thing,
00:47:29
Speaker
which is everything, all of nature, then you don't actually have any free will in making decisions, but you are the thing that wills existence as a totality. And I think a very important aspect to look at this as is like, you know, we you think about the connection between the people in this room, between everybody, there's a connection, there's something that connects all beings and all people. And within that connection, again, if you kind of bring it down to the dual, we have
00:47:59
Speaker
A certain amount of free will in terms of how we affect the field that we share as people as animals, you know, so I think that's where the free will really kind of resides is, you know, what are we doing to affect the field that connects all of us, you know, we spreading love, are we spreading hate? That's where the free will I think is.
00:48:20
Speaker
See, the free will thing is really mind blowing to me because like it brings into question just about everything because even the aspect of time when you say that it makes me think about time as well because for free will to exist, then time has to be as it appears. So there would have to be a true sense to there being cause and effect. So in order for there to be a free will, there has to be a cause that equals the effect.
00:48:47
Speaker
Basically, let me just before we go there, I want to ask you guys, what do you think about time? Do you think that time exists? Is it an illusion? Is it not real at all? What do you think? I don't I personally don't think time exists. No. I think it's manmade. Like a construct. Can you extrapolate on that a little bit?
00:49:07
Speaker
uh no okay let me ask what what would be the difference between it being real and between it like being man-made like what what does it mean to be man-made do you mean it's like it's an idea as opposed to something that's actually real i just the way that i feel about it because okay i i've been through my fair share of psychedelic experiences where time does not exist but time
00:49:36
Speaker
on this human plane is more so a means to structure things.
00:49:45
Speaker
It's a survival mechanism. It's something that you have to adhere to to survive. And evolutionarily, over all of the millions of years that we've been, you know, evolving, we've adhered to time. And you just look no further than it's just the sun. Time is just the sun, you know, that's it. And your relative position and the mass of the thing you're standing on, it's weird. And like the illusion of entropy as well. You know, see, I was, it's such a difficult question, but
00:50:14
Speaker
You think about, because now they're space-time. Einstein would say that space and time are the same thing.
00:50:21
Speaker
And I was thinking about time. I don't think that it actually exists first off because you can't get a hold of it. Like I can't show you any time ever. All I can show you is now like you can, you can't point at time. You can't grasp a hold of it. I can point to a watch or I can point to a clock, but that's not what time is. So like, as soon as the second passes, it's, it's always going to be now basically. And while I was thinking about what time could be is.
00:50:48
Speaker
that all time is, is the space in between two thoughts. Does that make sense? And then what space would be is a medium in which simultaneous thoughts can
00:51:05
Speaker
appear in continuity. And this is based off of the idea that possibly what I would believe is that reality is mental in nature. It's more of a mind than a physical structure. So in our finite minds, we think of time as it's just a space between two thoughts. So our finite minds can have separate thoughts. So it's actually a space between those thoughts.
00:51:31
Speaker
And then this physical realm of space is just enabling the mind to have simultaneous thoughts with continuity. Does that make sense? So then what is the explicit connection of space and time? Because there is an obvious connection between the two.
00:51:48
Speaker
So much so that they depend on one another, you know, if you're like when you talk about space travel, you know what I mean? And you talk about light years. These are these are concepts that marry space and time, which can lead to quantifiable observations. So what do you think is the the connection between space and time if they aren't the same thing or not the same? Maybe they're two sides of the same coin.
00:52:12
Speaker
Like I said, I kind of agree with them being constructs, but I think that, because like, for instance, I don't think, like I said, time actually exists. And like I was kind of saying before, the whole cause and effect thing, there's no, there's, I would say that all that exists is this right now, and this is all that will ever exist. And when you think of something that caused this, it's just, it's pure imagination and construct, basically.
00:52:40
Speaker
Time to me seems to be, it seems to be experience. And the way, the reason I say that is because again, like Alana had mentioned, she's had, you know, psychedelic experiences where time doesn't really seem to exist. It's hard to say that like such a definitive black and white statement, like time is not real time does not exist, but you can experience time differently than what we consider linear, eternal time.
00:53:09
Speaker
It's almost as if time does not follow a timeline. It's rather infinite instead, but it's, it's really hard to say it doesn't exist because like, as you said, what kind of popped out to me as part of what you said was you can't show anybody time. You can't show it, but.
00:53:25
Speaker
You also can't show consciousness. You can point to a person, but that's the watch. Consciousness is the time. So it doesn't necessarily mean that consciousness doesn't exist because if you or I were to be pressed, we'd probably say consciousness is the only thing that exists. So just because it can't be shown and it can't be seen or heard or whatever doesn't necessarily mean it doesn't exist. At the same time, it does though.
00:53:51
Speaker
It definitely does. I would say it's another paradox. It's like free will. But like we have to, I would say in our finite minds, in the human state of consciousness, we have to kind of construct time or believe time for like for instance for you to answer my question.
00:54:08
Speaker
like for you to answer a question I ask you there has to be a space between those thoughts and that space is I would say what we call time but that it doesn't actually exist as it I would say that there's only an infinite moment like an eternal now but in this game that we play we kind of
00:54:27
Speaker
We have to parse things between thoughts and that's what we call time, I would say. I don't think that we are, it's more of like a dream, I would say, reality itself. So it's not like, like when you wake up from a dream, you don't consider the time of the dream as like a serious, like a tangible thing. And often in dreams, time doesn't actually make any sense.
00:54:49
Speaker
So I would say that it's just a way for us to maintain coherence in this experience rather than a thing that actually exists.
00:54:59
Speaker
through psychedelic experience, you can, you know, a lot of times when people use psychedelics, they say they experience things that are realer than real, more real than our like human state of being, where you transcend being a human being and you enter into something else, where you can experience truths that seem more true than what you experience at this level of consciousness. And I would say that you can experience
00:55:26
Speaker
a state that feels more true, that time is a literal non-factor, where there's a multitude of states you could experience somewhere you could basically feel the relativity of time, that it's not an absolute thing, that it's absolutely relative. Like Einstein said, like what, I don't know exactly what he said, but basically putting your hand on a burning stove for five minutes is a lot longer than sitting next to someone you love for five minutes. So that's like the relativity of time, and I think
00:55:56
Speaker
If something is relative then it's by nature not absolute in a sense. You know what I mean? Yeah. So I think it's just all part of like a the state of a human being like our finite minds constructing something but it can be transcended to a point where there is no actual time. What do you think Nicole?
00:56:18
Speaker
So I'm going to bring up something weird about time. So has anybody ever been sitting on your phone and doing something and you look at the clock and it's, you know, whatever, eight o'clock and then you look at the clock like you believe would be two minutes later and it's still eight o'clock and you're like, what? Like how, how is time not passed since I last looked at the clock? It feels like it's been a couple minutes. What I've noticed and I've paid attention to on my phone is that
00:56:49
Speaker
sometimes my phone glitches where it'll be eight o'clock and then all of a sudden I'll look at my phone again or I'll like keep staring at the time and then it'll just be 803 and I'm like did my phone like lag on the time but it scares you because it's like
00:57:06
Speaker
Like, how do I know that time actually passed if my phone is lagging? Like, has that happened to everybody or was that just my phone? And if that is a thing, then could, you know, why do days feel shorter? Are they glitching our phones and speeding up time? Glitching all of, I mean, I know that would be pretty hard because there are so many clocks everywhere. You would have to manipulate all of them at the same time to make it
00:57:33
Speaker
be everything but i mean if how many times have you run into where a clock is slow or a clock is fast like do you remember changing the time on it no but somehow it's fast somehow it's slow has it always been slow or has have our phones been speeding up but our manual time clocks not speed it like sped up like i don't know that that
00:57:58
Speaker
blows my mind and that sense like it has time has to be an agreed upon construct because like let's say the powers that be decided to fast forward time an hour we would have to accept that that's what the time truly was well think about that that's about to happen daylight savings is exactly that yeah but like we've all agreed that time moves an hour forward or an hour back two times a year
00:58:21
Speaker
And like with the relativity of time cuz like you'd say sometimes it it feels like time is moving faster than other times like to me it feels like time has to move and it's the relativity of it is
00:58:37
Speaker
based upon the, like I was mentioning before, the space between thoughts. So if you're looking at the time with zero thought, it feels like it's moving really slowly if you're waiting for it to go. But if in mind, if there's a lot of content in consciousness, a lot of thoughts happening, time seems to move faster.
00:58:58
Speaker
So I think that the relativity of time could be dependent upon the amount of thoughts or basically just contents within consciousness. The more content of consciousness, the faster time goes. This is like Terence McKenna's novelty theory, right? It's like when there's like the farther that time goes, like time, quote unquote, as we know it along the timeline, the more events that happen within a condensed period of time. Right.
00:59:25
Speaker
So then you can redefine what time is based off of the amount of events that are happening within that timeframe. So it's like right now, uh, there's say like 10 events that might 10 big events that might happen in a single year. Whereas a thousand years ago, it was like one event, you know, and as time proceeds and as things evolve and as like Joe was mentioning entropy as things start to complexify time is time is almost like reevaluated.
00:59:54
Speaker
yeah and like even you could bring it home a little bit like let's say in the 19 1950s let's say the amount of time it would take to make as many movies in that that we make in one year like how many movies would we push out the time now compared to then is so condensed so like time
01:00:17
Speaker
Is in effect moving so much faster because we are able to produce things that would have taken years in the past. Take a tiny amount of time now like for us to do this whole production in podcast thirty years ago. We would it would take us a very long time to be able to do this.
01:00:34
Speaker
But now it's like, this can happen in an instant, basically. We'll be done in an hour, it'll be done. It'll be ready to go, like, sure, it'll need to be edited and stuff. Same way, like, a Marmold movie we make, now we can do it in two years. And, you know, that would take decades, you know, just a few decades back. So that's kind of like McKenna saying, like, that time is kind of speeding up as we're moving forward. And it seems to be because, as I was saying before, the contents within consciousness are happening faster and faster. Do you think technology has something to do with that, though?
01:01:04
Speaker
Well, absolutely. Yeah. It's weird how quickly things like medical science to me blows it. It constantly is blowing my mind medical and AI science is constantly blowing my mind. And with AI especially, it's like.
01:01:21
Speaker
They say whenever we create an AI that can begin like is intelligent enough to begin improving upon itself, the first instant that that is able to happen, it will surpass millions of years of human evolution in like a fraction of a second. And if in a single moment, the amount of improvement it will be able to have upon itself will surpass anything we can imagine. That would be like the singularity, where we're basically fucked and owned by a machine at that point.
01:01:51
Speaker
And if that ever happens, it's hard to say. I don't know. I don't know about AI to me. It's like I feel like a lot of people either think it's total nonsense or they put too much faith into it. Like for me, you know.
01:02:05
Speaker
I haven't seen anything, I think like the mid journey, like the images and the video stuff, it's pretty cool and creative and it's awesome, but I haven't seen anything that like blows my mind quite yet. Like the chat GPT, it's a language model. I mean, I think we have such high expectations because people, when they talk about AI, like a lot of people, especially the layman, they start to talk about like a being, like a sentient computer, like we're creating a life. Whereas I don't see that to be what we're doing yet. I mean, maybe it's possible, but
01:02:34
Speaker
One really cool thing that I heard AI could potentially help with is like being able to decipher languages and writings from ancient cultures. Have you seen that recently? That's been blowing my mind. So cool. That that would be fascinating.
01:02:52
Speaker
Yeah, I've heard about that just recently, that they're starting to try to do that. I forget what text that they're trying to use it on. But I mean, you know, if that's possible, that would be incredible. I think it's already been successful in something that we can kind of understand already, because obviously, chat GPT and all these AI systems kind of, they're data miners.
01:03:15
Speaker
They mine already existing knowledge that humans have established. But the hope is that eventually it can apply the same types of maneuvering to be able to decipher something that we can't read or can't see.
01:03:35
Speaker
Because if an AI gets strong enough, it would be able to basically see the future in a sense. It's kind of like determinism. I would say that you could argue that there's no such thing as randomness in the universe. It's just nothing is random. We're just lacking the ability to identify variables.
01:03:56
Speaker
So like, when you flip a coin, it's not actually random. Because if we had if we knew the exact force in which it's being flipped in the air density, if you could account for all those variables, you'd be able to predict with 100% certainty what side it would land on same with like rolling a dice. So it's not actually random, it's just our inability to, you know, identify all the different variables. So like, if you were to look at the universe as like a
01:04:24
Speaker
like a big pool table, for instance. Like you hit the cue, hit the balls, you think it's random. But like I mentioned with the flipping the coin, if you understood each variable, you'd be able to predict, and this has been done, to be able to predict exactly where each ball will land.
01:04:38
Speaker
So if an AI was intelligent enough to gather all variables in existence, which I don't know is possible, but let's say if it was able to determine every single variable, it could play that out and tell you exactly what the future is. You know what I mean?
01:04:53
Speaker
And that applies only to the physical, three dimensional plane that we find ourselves in here. This does that does not apply to, you know, what exists outside of the mind, you know, the spirit, whatever the realms that we were talking about earlier, that stuff is still anybody's guess. Yeah. And that's the stuff I'd like that aspect of reality, true reality, where I would say an AI would have
01:05:20
Speaker
zero place being really I mean it's it's being built under the context of materialism being built in the context of this physical reality so like there's no way I would say an AI would transcend that because the builders aren't transcending it
01:05:37
Speaker
Do you think AI could create its own religion eventually? I think that's like basically or we're at there. We're pretty much at that point. Yeah, I think that's what will happen. I mean I you could argue that Google is its own religion. I mean like people just go to Google for absolute truth like you want to know the truth. I'm not a fan of Google me either. But you know, it's.
01:05:59
Speaker
internet technology, it's already being worshiped in a sense, especially like in Western society, it's like, we imagine an AI that will be God to us, like it will look to it for our answers, we'll think it's all knowing. So I would say that's almost like exactly what will have to happen, at least for a lot of people. I don't mean to go off the rails. Did you hear what Google's doing since last week, where they're going to go through your search history and look for dangerous search terms? Who determines that?
01:06:29
Speaker
That's not good. It's not good at all. There's also this guy coming out. Speaking of Google, he was talking about how Google has been rigging elections for it. Like this guy, something that Epstein, I believe it because it's a story suppression all the time. Think of all the things that you probably could have heard about about not even I wouldn't even say our election cycle. I'm thinking like pretty much any election cycle, how much stuff is held back due to the person being like, all right, I need to talk to the Google execs and give them X amount of money so they just don't
01:06:59
Speaker
publish this content or backdoor it so far that you can't find it. They definitely do that. And another thing that they were doing is that they were sending notification because first they have all your info of what you search they know what what your political leanings are.
01:07:14
Speaker
So say they want a Democrat to win. What they would do is send out notifications on voting day to all people who have Democrat leaning ideas or whatever. They'd send them all notifications, say, go vote today, go vote today, and not send it and send it to like 10% of people on the other aisle. And just that alone is proven to send like,
01:07:34
Speaker
a massive amount of voters out to actually vote just by giving them a single notification. And if you do it in a certain political leaning, you can just with that basically, there's data showing that that can rig an entire election just by sending a single notification on the day of voting. And that has happened.
01:07:50
Speaker
to only a specific group of people. Right. And this guy, he's this Epstein guy, works for Google or used to or whatever. He is a left leaning Democratic voting guy. But he discovered this and found that in the last election, it was totally rigged for, you know, the Democrats to win. And of course, then they do win because the power of this technology. But he found this and he's speaking up against it, which is commendable because it was his people that he wanted to win that benefited from it. But he's coming out against it, which I find
01:08:19
Speaker
pretty cool. And it's just mind blowing. This guy's been on a bunch of interviews lately. I just heard him. It's like the power of the technology is just out of control.
01:08:29
Speaker
there needs to be regulation. I feel yeah, I agree in a sense but then it's like these people who regulate like it was saying who what to regulate and right there's no clear answer I mean it's like this technology has been developed so fast and we have no ability to like control it I was gonna say I think it's out of our hands at this point and then the conception it was like well it's out there and that's there's nothing you can do about it at this point it just is
01:08:54
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, we are in the infancy of the internet. This is a brand new thing. So we are trying to get a hold of it. And when you talk about government regulating stuff, our government can't even regulate something like Facebook. They have all this trouble trying to regulate that. And then talk about how they're going to regulate an AI or something so much more complex. They can't even handle these small social media things.
01:09:17
Speaker
You know, I don't know if whoever controls it has a massive amount of power and basically run the world to run our minds. Do you guys do you three since you all work on? Do you ever worry about your jobs eventually? Yeah. And actually, what was that?
01:09:36
Speaker
We were just talking about it. The thing that monitors like your eye movements and your focus and all that. Oh, he told me about this. They did that in schools in China. That sounds terrifying. It's like a thought police. Like you can't even think a wrong thought or this device will be like, hey, their eye movement is doing things that are particular to them actually focusing on this particular thing.
01:09:58
Speaker
Go hit him with a switch. It measures your, uh, your, the fluids in your body too. Like it, it can measure everything brainwave activity. That is the thing that worries me. I don't worry about my job being taken over by AI. I worry about like them monitoring me to the point where I am a literal slave to AI.
01:10:19
Speaker
Well, you're gonna well, I feel like you're a slave. I feel like you're gonna be a slave either way. Because if you lose your job to AI, they're gonna have to look for other means of money. And they're eventually going to be like, hey, guess what? Like, there's so many people that don't have jobs, like there has to be a universal basic income. And then you're a slave to that. Like you don't win. I don't see a point where you win.
01:10:39
Speaker
Yeah, I think we're gonna inevitably be slaves to AI. I mean, it's already beginning to happen. I think they send out robot dogs as law enforcement in New York. So eventually, there will be AI robotic law enforcement, which is scary. And they're trying to eventually weed out human drivers, so there will be
01:11:01
Speaker
Like all driverless cars and so like with all these things it's like it limits your free your free will your freedom in so many ways it's like if the government says turn off the cars you can't put gas in your car and. Drive off on your own there don't you know that the grid determines and then you know we're talking about.
01:11:21
Speaker
on the way here. If a cataclysm would come, it's like if we are so dependent on technology and AI and then something happens that destroys the grid like a solar flare and asteroid impact, it's like we are totally
Human Specialization and Knowledge
01:11:34
Speaker
fucked. We've become totally reliant on technology just to even maintain our sanity. I feel now it's like you take away a cell phone from someone for a day and they start itching.
01:11:44
Speaker
And that's just like that has nothing even to do with survival. That's just mental clarity and health. Like we are so attached to this stuff, let alone the ability to actually survive. We can't survive without technology. We think food comes from the grocery store. We don't get our food like there are people I've seen people say that like it's not they would say like, you know, where's the food come from? It comes from the grocery store. We did an episode where people thought they did a commercial an ad, and it was for pasta, a pasta farm.
01:12:13
Speaker
And it was growing pasta on pasta trees and they said they had an influx of people that called in asking for the trees There's this there's this famous political commentary smart, dude
01:12:31
Speaker
and he posted on Twitter, he was in an airplane flying over middle America and he took a picture, this smart guy, dude, like a smart, intelligent political analyst. He took a picture from the plane window of like farms, he was flying over middle America and you know how when you see like farms overhead, it's like grids of different colors of different crops and he took the picture and he's like, what are they doing down here? Like this intelligent guy, like real intelligent, didn't know what a farm was, he's never seen it.
01:13:00
Speaker
or never just didn't know what it was. And this isn't like an idiot. This is a guy who, if he was sitting here right now, he'd be like, well, this guy's got it together. He's smart. Is this like an inevitable outcome of the human species ability to do so many things, but they're so compartmentalized. Like we have scientists and we have engineers and we have car detailers and we have data entry people and we have, you know what I mean?
01:13:27
Speaker
There's so many very centralized skill sets that humans have, but I guess what that means is that there has to be a lot of people that can't do a lot of things. And is that detrimental to our survival? Is it detrimental to the ongoing progress of our evolution? See, I would say it is detrimental, and the ideal society would be a society of polymaths, like Leonardo da Vinci.
01:13:51
Speaker
Well, I'm just saying that would be ideal. If our society was structured in a way where every person learns an instrument when they're young, and then every person learns mathematics, and that's what they would call a polymath, like a Renaissance man, like a Leonardo da Vinci who is amazing in all these different things.
01:14:09
Speaker
And that would be the ideal. But like you said, I think we're moving, in a sense, further away from what I would say absolute truth, because we compartmentalize everything so much. If you look into the past, there used to be natural science, which was a mixture of science and philosophy. It was one thing. And now today, as time moves forward, we have millions of different sciences, like a science of everything. You could spend your whole life studying birds. But then you're going to know a lot about birds, but nothing about the totality.
01:14:36
Speaker
There's no holistic view of reality anymore because it's so compartmentalized because you can look into each thing infinitely. You can study every aspect of reality forever. But each of those things, they're all worthwhile endeavors. It's a worthwhile endeavor to look into birds so much that you know everything about birds because there's just so much to learn. There's so much to know about our reality.
01:15:00
Speaker
It almost feels like at a certain point in time in our history, we decided because there was a point in time where Renaissance men, that was a thing. Now it's sort of not a thing. And I think what happened was we realized that there are so much to learn about every little individual aspect of reality that we figured, let's do that. And I think that's worthy.
01:15:21
Speaker
Yeah, like I'm not saying that's all bad, but what you mentioned the detriment and I think the detriment is that that we have no holistic view of reality as a whole or what we're doing here. It's just like it's so fractured that you don't have anybody looking at the totality of it. Like, you know, we might have talked about this on a podcast before like
01:15:40
Speaker
holistic thinking where like you know now we have people who think reality is made of strings like we're so into the physical matter that we want to zoom in say it's made of atoms it's made of all these different things but you could look at it in a different way and I forget who came up with this idea but it's like a more holistic way to look at reality and not in a material sense that reality is made of what are called holons
01:16:04
Speaker
which all reality is, is made up of holes that are made up of parts in which the parts are made up of holes that are made up of parts. So it's like a fractal, like, for instance, I am a human body that's made of organs and the organs are made of cells and the cells are made of atoms and the and it's just like a fracturing of holes into parts and then the parts into more holes into more parts and all the way down. So it's more of a conceptual thinking rather than a literal material thinking. And
01:16:33
Speaker
That's like a more holistic view of kind of seeing reality as a whole, fractured into parts of more holes. This concept, I think, is what the original mandalas were trying to capture. Like, if you look at a mandala, that's exactly what it is. It's like this fractal thing. And I don't think it's a coincidence that when you take a psychedelic substance,
01:16:57
Speaker
you very commonly see fractals. And these fractals are alive a lot of times. They're moving. It almost seems as if they're representations of reality itself. And yeah, they're infinite. And that's why I like the Holon way of looking at reality that's made of Holons, because it's not like a definitive thing. Like it's made of this material or this, but it's a conceptual thinking. And I think that is true. Like based on psychedelics, it's like that reality is no doubt fractal in nature.
01:17:25
Speaker
nature itself is just full of fractals and sacred geometry and all that. So I think there's so many different ways that we can look at things, but we're so steeped into one way. And you know, that one way isn't all bad. I mean, it led to all this technology, it led to the medical advancements and maybe AI, but it seems like, in my opinion,
01:17:46
Speaker
This way we're moving right now in like Western culture is untenable. Like this is not good. Like our mental health is being destroyed. Like this is not going to last. That's why like when I hear people talk about the future and they say like they think it's always going to be this way and better.
01:18:04
Speaker
I don't share that same view. I don't think that this stream can continue. I think it's going to have to end because I don't think it's cohesive with the human experience. It seems like we're at a dissonance with technology, with our bodies, our minds, our souls.
01:18:20
Speaker
In 50 years, we're just going to have these chips in our brains that allow us to do this stuff. I would not be surprised to see this momentum halted at any moment. I just don't think it's cohesive. I don't think that it is meant to last. I think that we're seeing a descent right now in mental health and just people's understanding of who they are, their sexuality. Every single thing about a human being is being kind of torn apart. It's kind of Sodom and Gomorrah.
01:18:48
Speaker
It doesn't help that they're constantly making you question yourself too. Yeah. I meant at large like the the general I wouldn't say the general population but they they make you want to question everything.
01:18:59
Speaker
Yeah. And I mean, we no longer investigate anything for ourselves. I mean, the most investigation we'll do is, like I said, a Google search or something. And then you know. There's no real introspection. I think that's a lost art. It's an art that needs to be practiced and that nobody really does anymore. Because instead of introspecting or looking within for any type of answer, you have something in your pocket that will give you a definitive answer that you can
01:19:27
Speaker
latch on to identify with and say, okay, this is it. I know this now. It took zero thinking, zero problem solving. So I don't think it's healthy. And I don't think it's going to continue. I think maybe something like this has happened in the past. Like, you know, there's speculations of past cultures and, you know, maybe human beings have been rising and falling for 100,000 years, 500,000 years, who knows?
01:19:50
Speaker
So I wouldn't be surprised if we're just on a weird path that could be halted whenever.
Modern Society's Existential Crisis
01:19:58
Speaker
Do you think the technological advances have something to do with this too? Because I think back to more ancient civilizations, they didn't have this technology. Their focus was survival. And in their tightly knit villages, everybody had a specific job that was imperative to the survival of that particular group of people. And now, we get all our food from the grocery store. There's nobody around here that's farming for everybody
01:20:27
Speaker
We're at a point now where everything is spoon fed to us and it doesn't take a lot of brain power to find the answer to something that's fed to you through the algorithm that is Google. And I just think a lot of people have gotten complacent.
01:20:43
Speaker
and lazy and you know let's say tomorrow an asteroid did hit and we were completely off the grid so many people would perish because they they have no idea how to survive it'd be chaos in day one oh yeah it would be insane even if just the electrical grid went down you would see chaos in two weeks you'd see people fucking killing and robbing and taking water like
01:21:10
Speaker
I mean, we're so used to just having all this stuff. Think about like when the pandemic started. That's what I was going to bring up. Yeah, the beginning of COVID. And that wasn't even that bad. People fought over toilet paper. Yes. Over toilet paper. And all the stuff that you just described is basically all the stuff that leads to, I would say, like what Jordan Peterson talks about, like the meaning crisis. I mean, we have as a society, there's like no meaning.
01:21:32
Speaker
I mean, if you are in a small group of people where you're all tightly knitted and you all have a job to keep your group alive, you have deep meaning in everything you do. It's like you have to go out and get food to feed the people that you are dependent upon you. It gives you deep meaning to do that throughout the day. But now we're all in jobs where it's just you're looking at the clock. There's no meaning to the job. It's just work for work's sake.
01:21:58
Speaker
So yeah, it's and that's a true meaning crisis and it's sad because I think it also has to do with like our metaphysical paradigm because like if you switch your mode of thinking and I think psychedelics can have a huge impact on people for this is that you can see that reality
01:22:15
Speaker
in itself is meaningful. There is a meaning to just reality itself. Everything has intrinsic meaning, but we're so steeped in just a physical outlook of the world and the death of the soul, the death of God, just atheism, whatever, and it kind of removes meaning from everything. And it's just that you are just a physical, you are a meat suit in a rock in the middle of space.
01:22:41
Speaker
I don't I don't think that's healthy I don't think it's true I think it's it's a all these things coming together are leading to like a deep meaning crisis and a lot of things that I just think are untenable and are going to collapse at some point I mean and like you think of just
Technological Advancements and Ethics
01:22:58
Speaker
with the technology becomes these advanced weapons systems that can destroy the whole planet we have more nukes that can nuke the whole planet over like a hundred times so these things are all floating around under our seas they're all over in silos let alone the weapon systems that we will never know about until they're unleashed i mean nobody knew about the nuclear bomb until it was unleashed you know they probably have insane chemical weapons that could just wipe out populations of people all sorts of stuff they're doing
01:23:26
Speaker
you know with like the covid virus where they call that gain a function research gain a function research i mean you got. There's all this sick stuff going on it's like. What's the means to this and like crazy stuff and i just don't think it'll last there are some people who.
01:23:45
Speaker
are okay with that type of research because they're like, well, if it's gonna make my life better. And we've kind of lost humanity at that point then. Like if we're okay with people, I mean, I'm sure if they're okay with animals it happening to, they're okay with people it happening to. As long as that person, you justify it, right? You say, well, that person was really old or that person was a vegetable.
01:24:12
Speaker
Okay, yeah, but they're also a person. So who are you to test on that person or animal just to potentially make somebody else's life better? But I don't know. That's a sticky one. It's never to make someone's life better. It's usually to make money. Money, money, money. You're seeing all sorts of just horrible things play out right now. Like right now in Canada, they're like having this movement of euthanasia.
01:24:42
Speaker
where they're allowing people to kill themselves like they're basically you trauma made a joke about this the suicide booth yeah that's becoming a reality in Canada and they're expanding its nature like at first it was like terminal people are allowed to you know decide to kill themselves and then it became that you didn't have to be terminal like there's this woman who couldn't afford
01:25:03
Speaker
something in her house like she had trouble moving and they they wouldn't give her like her insurance wouldn't pay for her to get something installed in her house to allow her to have free movement without her house or throughout her house so she just said she don't want it she doesn't want to die but they'll give her a free death so they kill this woman when she wasn't terminal and now they're allowing it for drug addicts if you just like a drug addict instead of sending you to therapy and giving you help that they just suicide you
01:25:29
Speaker
So this is like expanding in Canada right now. And you bet your bottom dollar, it'll come here, too. It will. Yeah. Just give it a matter of time. If it's if it's at your next door neighbors, it's going to be over here. You know, and that's scary for the kids.
01:25:40
Speaker
Absolutely because they just get in a tough spot at one situation with it all Not even that but like what if their parents decide like yeah, you know what? I don't want this like what happens or You know what? What's the age limit like what if a child lives their whole life like when I get to age? I'm gonna kill myself. I don't want I've never wanted to be here
01:26:00
Speaker
And if people think that that's impossible, look at what they're letting you do to your fucking genitals and they don't care how old you fucking are. Well, see, they're talking even like in Canada with the suicide thing, the euthanasia movement, they're even talking about allowing it for kids without parent parental consent. So there's this whole movement going on. And you mentioned like with the sex changes, whatever that there's this whole movement going on of a child's rights that like a child should be able to determine their their future, anything about themselves with over the will of their parents. So they're giving children consent in these ways.
01:26:30
Speaker
where they aren't able to consent. There's a reason for consent laws. So they're even talking about children being able to do this suicide stuff without the consent of parents, talking about keeping secrets from parents at schools, all sorts of weird stuff. So the kids are really in a very dire situation.
01:26:51
Speaker
Please. Yes. And I mean, on top of it, they are being given what is essentially hard drugs in technology at such a young age that, you know, these kids, we have no idea they're being raised on iPads and they are totally into it. And then you don't know what it's going to be like when they're, you know, 19. And so you take it away from them. They might not be able to sustain the cycle. Yeah, it's it's serious stuff. And I think we're just seeing the beginning of it. We do not know what we're doing. It's just
01:27:21
Speaker
Even even without kids I talked about this on a podcast have you ever been in a group of people like I went over to my parents house the one time and it was a period where we haven't really seen them in a little bit so I really wanted to talk to them so I made sure that my phone was in my pocket literally entire time but every time I tried to talk somebody's face was like buried into a phone and I'm like
01:27:42
Speaker
Well, it's fucking pointless. I might as well just be doing the same thing. I didn't, but. Yeah, it's it's crazy. I mean, like, you know, they create this thing called social media with the advertising, be like, we're going to be so much more connected. And it's like totally the opposite effect. Does it unconnected? Yeah. Does it worry the you guys that both X and both Elon Musk and Mark Zuckerberg both want to make X and meta like do all fucking companies?
01:28:12
Speaker
What do you mean by do like you mean they just want to be like the do all end all companies like you can do pretty much anything you need or want through the company like I'm sure meta at some point will have online virtual stores or something where you're like you want to order your food you go into meta store you pick out all these things in your cart and then all of a sudden like 10 minutes later it's at your door or like you said there's like job postings on meta
01:28:36
Speaker
Yeah, they have like a version of this in China. I forget what it's called. But China has like a go to all app. We chat. Yep. Yeah. So it's that's what Elon's vision of X is. I mean, he has space X now he has X and it's going to be basically his vision is that it's a single app for all your needs. Social. So it could be okay. I mean, isn't that a monopoly at that point? Well,
01:29:01
Speaker
it's not necessarily a monopoly. I think it'd be more of a monopoly in China because of the regulation that like the Chinese government is the one who is like, well, they own WeChat, right? Yes, they own everything. But I mean, we are very consumer based here. And if the consumer
01:29:19
Speaker
wants that. And it's implemented by a guy like Elon Musk. I trust that more. I mean, this is a guy who just bought Twitter, basically because of his stance on absolute free speech. To me, that's a good thing. That's a good person to have involved in your app if you want to have an app like that. So I think it's okay. I mean, but could he have been doing it for money?
01:29:44
Speaker
It's both. It's, of course, money. But money is an okay motivator. Money is a very important motivator for innovation in our country, so it's... I just go to my conspiracy brain. If you have an X amount of certain money, like you've done stuff to get there... An X amount? Yeah, you've done an X amount of things. Excellent mucks.
01:30:04
Speaker
Yeah, he he partially like wanted Twitter and X because for communications aspects with like his You know because he has SpaceX and the satellite so like he basically he's an intelligent guy It's like a global communication. So that's like part of his whole You know goal with X like he wants to basically control it all for and I don't think he's very nefarious in comparison to other people I mean I
01:30:30
Speaker
have some criticisms like you know he did make a huge improvement by buying Twitter and you know because of the free aspects that was like a very dire time to where all socials were like even from YouTube all of them were cracking down on speech and he came through and he's definitely better on speech but still won't like allow like Alex Jones on you know so but it's much better than everyone else
01:30:53
Speaker
But yeah, for the most part, he's somebody that I have more faith in than those at Google and YouTube and stuff. Totally ideologies, just totally captured by their ideologies. But he's more reasonable, I'd say.
01:31:09
Speaker
So as we begin to transition to the final stretch of this awesome conversation we're having here, I want to go to everybody because a lot of these conversations, maybe it's just me, but when we talk about psychedelics, when we talk about technology and otherworldly stuff, spiritual stuff and all that, it always brings me back to the concept
Perspectives on Death and Reincarnation
01:31:30
Speaker
of death, the ultimate taboo of our culture. And I'd just like to know what everybody's views are on, you know, what happens, what it is, what happens afterward. If anything happens afterward, why don't we start off with the ladies?
01:31:45
Speaker
Um, I feel like we touched on this on the last episode that the three of us did together, like what my views on death are. I don't think it's the end. I just think it's a transition into the next phase, if you will. Um, I do believe in reincarnation. That's just my own personal opinion. And I also,
01:32:14
Speaker
feel as if when this particular body ceases to exist like there's one soul that belongs to you and the eternity that is everybody. I don't believe in heaven or hell but I think there is one local hub where everybody goes to kind of reconvene and then you can either stay or go or
01:32:38
Speaker
do something different. I think that it's all just a learning experience as well. Do you think there's any sort of life review because you said you don't believe in heaven or hell but do you believe in like any type of system of judgment based off of what you did in your life? I do but I don't think there is a
01:33:01
Speaker
Well, I don't want to say I don't think there's punishment for it, but I don't think it's as severe as like you will spend all of eternity burning being poked by the devil. You know, I think that it's more so like you did this when we were kind of looking for you to do this. Like this was your karma here and you got to go back and do it again until you get it right. And it really did take
01:33:26
Speaker
becoming more, I hate to say the word woke, but going through this awakening experience and being more open minded to these things. Cause before I used to believe in the death penalty, I thought, you know, an eye for an eye was a perfect way to handle those kinds of situations. But now I think,
01:33:44
Speaker
It's way more convoluted than that and you know I do believe in rehabilitation and I don't think that you know just because someone did something bad before that they're you know forever bad people change people grow people learn.
01:34:00
Speaker
And those rules to me still apply even in death. If you do something really egregious during this lifetime, I don't think that that should damn you forever. Everybody has the chance to redeem themselves and to be better from it. Nice, I like that. Good answer. Okay, Nicole, your turn. Second lady. So...
01:34:32
Speaker
I try not to say that death scares me because it's not the actual death that scares me. It's the act of dying. Do you know you died? Like that is always my, like if I died in my sleep, would it just be
01:34:54
Speaker
I mean, obviously you never wake up again, but what I'm trying to say is, would it be like I know that I've gone to the next phase or the next whatever it is, or would I just
01:35:10
Speaker
black out like nothing ever again and I won't know because I'll be dead but that's what scares me about death and that's what I question all the time is do you know that you died and I think if that question could be answered a lot of other things would make sense but
01:35:35
Speaker
you're never gonna know but I agree a lot with what Alana said about I also believe in reincarnation and you know that there is something after this I don't believe I do believe in ghosts whether or not they are confused souls that walked this earth at one point or they are something completely different they're a soul they're something but I do believe in that
01:36:05
Speaker
I mean, we've talked a little we talked about suicide. And Josh, what did we watch that they said that when you commit suicide, you're in some sort of limbo? You can and it's more possible you'll end up in a limbo type situation. Like that's kind of crazy. Like so different deaths warrant different
01:36:25
Speaker
different types like if you die in your sleep like obviously you didn't do that there was nothing you did wrong um now does it depend on age i don't know like when you're old is it more acceptable than when you're young do you go somewhere else when you're young versus when you're old because one person has completed
01:36:43
Speaker
from what we say their whole life and one person did not so like do they end up two separate places do they end up together if you talk to mediums you'll say everybody's together when I talk to you guys you know everybody is everybody like there's not you me it we're all connected so it's it's it's a hard one but I I do believe that there is something else I don't believe that when we leave this earth
01:37:08
Speaker
That's it. I think there is something we don't know or we do know.
01:37:15
Speaker
Can I also just throw something in real quick? I think, again, my personal opinion, not fact or anything, but I think your attitude towards death has a lot to do with it as well. If you're someone who has lived what we would consider a full life and you're at a terminal state, there's a big difference in someone who is,
01:37:40
Speaker
calm at peace who is accepted that their life is about to end versus someone who is not ready to accept that and is having a very, very difficult time with it and is raging against that black light or whatever that poem is, I forget.
01:37:58
Speaker
I think that that also has a lot to do with, like the same thing as you said with the suicide, you know, the manner of death as well. I think a lot of those things tie in too. You can end up in that limbo state where you're confused. Maybe that's where ghosts come from. I don't know. But I think your attitude at the end of your life
01:38:19
Speaker
you know obviously if you're if something really unfortunate happens you're hit by a bus or something happens really quickly like you won't know but if you are if you've gone through your entire natural life you're dying of a natural cause and you know it's coming your attitude has a lot to do with what happens afterwards as well that's all I wanted to throw in how about you Jeff oh my god uh
01:38:44
Speaker
I think death is just so complicated that anybody who says or pretends to know that what goes on after you're living and into death has absolutely no clue what they're talking about.
01:39:01
Speaker
Even the people that say they've died and come back, there are a lot of similarities. But is that is that what happens? And who are you to know or say, I'd like to think that you get reincarnated, but there's also the people that are worried that you ever heard of an archon before? I've heard the word. So it's. They're like higher ascended beings that
01:39:31
Speaker
that like control pretty much, I don't want to say reality, but they control most of at least our plane of existence. And when you die, when you have that life review, they're just fucking with you. And they're just putting you back into the energy cycle just to keep siphoning and feeding off you. Like, I do let that play in my head. Do I want that to be a reality? No. But what? I don't know.
01:39:55
Speaker
I just don't know. That would suck if you died. They gave you a life review and because according to them, they said you did one little thing wrong. You got to go back and do it all over again. Even after you yourself thought like, I thought I did a pretty decent job, you know. And it's kind of crazy too, because just because you did one thing wrong, you have to relive an entire life. Like, it's not like you have to go back to that moment and fix it. It's now you have to
01:40:22
Speaker
give them an entire, you know, 100 plus years if you live in natural life or 80 plus years if you want to say that's more of like the life expectancy of a human. You. Like just from one thing, you could like I feel like that's sketchy that you'd have to I agree with you with that energy sucking like there has to be something in it for them. What else will we do? What do you mean? Like what's the meaning of life?
01:40:52
Speaker
I question that with I question that with the free will question because Spencer had brought that up. He's like, well, it's just to experience everything. Are you really experiencing it because you're not like once you die, you don't hold that experience anymore. They wipe you anyway.
01:41:08
Speaker
supposedly like you don't there's those couple of people that are like, Oh, I remember doing this in a past life, but that's few and far between. So if you resurrected, what was the point of even serving that past life if you can't develop and learn from that's not you experiencing that, in my opinion, because
01:41:26
Speaker
You got rid of it. Is that really an experience or is that just happening? It just happened. An experience I feel like it has to have some sort of learning or like knowledge aspect behind it. That's what I was going to ask. Do you think you have to take something with you? Like you hold on to something that is a result of an experience? I don't know. But here's the thing. How do you know you haven't held on to it? Because you have no idea who I mean,
01:41:54
Speaker
Ideally, you would have no idea who you were in the past life if they did their job correctly and they wiped you correctly. But maybe something you do in this life is due to that memory that stays with you from your past life. You just don't know what if your intuition is something that happened to you prior.
01:42:12
Speaker
Yeah, like, people who believe in reincarnation often say, like, say, like, in your last life, if you were a claimed musician, then in your next life, you will have natural ability for music. So, like, a lot of people with reincarnation would say that you bring aspects with you to the next life. Whether, I don't know if I believe that. And it sucks because it's not verifiable. Yeah, it's not verifiable.
01:42:35
Speaker
Although, do you remember the organ thing that we watched? Where you can get somebody's organ placed inside of you and then you start developing either the tendencies or you can gain some of their memories somehow. Yeah, there was a boy that donated his organs and he was like a crazy like musician and the woman who received or the man, I don't remember if it was a woman or a man who received the organ,
01:42:58
Speaker
never played an instrument in their life but now was playing the same instrument as that little boy and well like knew how to do it and that just like is everything ingrained into every piece of your body no matter if it's in your body or it's outside.
01:43:15
Speaker
There's also like instances of people who like bumped their heads real bad and then they'll be like expert piano players when they wake up or like they'll hit their head and then they'll be able to talk in a different language or they'll develop like an accent of somewhere totally foreign to them. Interesting. I don't that's that brings up that I don't think consciousness resides in the brain at all.
Consciousness Beyond the Brain?
01:43:33
Speaker
I think it
01:43:34
Speaker
I think I don't know what it is. I don't think anybody knows what it is. But I don't think it resides strictly in your brain. Well, quite literally, the brain exists in consciousness. It has to be because like, there's no in order to see a brain, it has to be within consciousness. There's nothing that can exist outside of consciousness or
01:43:53
Speaker
You have to be aware of a thing for it to be there. You know what I mean? So what happens when you lose your consciousness, Joe? Basically, if you talk about death, I think, for instance, we want to talk about brains. Before they were able to study psychedelics, they figured that when you take a psychedelic and observe the brain, that everything fires off like crazy.
01:44:15
Speaker
But they found out that it was the complete opposite. That when you take a psychedelic, your brain in many areas starts to shut down. So I would say psychedelics are the closest thing we have to death because when you die, the image of the brain is totally shut down. So when you take a psychedelic, that's the closest thing to your brain being totally shut off. A lot of people agree to that.
01:44:34
Speaker
A lot of people would say that like, oh, maybe anesthesia, like nothing happens when you die. But like anesthesia is the opposite. What they do is they flood your brain with a bunch of different stuff. So you're so clouded that you can't grasp onto anything such as pain or anything like that. So it would be the opposite of something like anesthesia. It would be something more akin to psychedelics because that's the brain being totally shut down. So I think that is basically total ego dissolution. So
01:45:00
Speaker
On psychedelics, you get ego death, but I think that's like a fraction of what will happen when it totally shuts down. So I think when you die, it'll be complete ego dissolution. I think during the process of death, you will probably experience something akin to your life flashing before your eyes, a DMT experience, an understanding, something where you still are held on to your ego as it is slowly fleeting.
01:45:27
Speaker
And like same as you said, I think that there is a way that you can accept death that will make it an easier process. Same as like when you take a psychedelic, if you fight the ego death, it's going to be a lot more of a difficult experience. But if you surrender with love and acceptance, it will be a more beautiful experience falling into the light, like follow the light, they say.
01:45:45
Speaker
So I think basically death will just be total ego dissolution. I don't think – I'm not totally married to the idea of reincarnation, but I think it's a possibility. I think if we're here now, then there's a possibility of always being here. I mean I think that –
01:46:03
Speaker
The possibilities are basically infinite. As consciousness being infinite, there are infinite possibilities, but I think most likely it's going to be pure ego dissolution where you become the one thing and then you kind of have not even an understanding, not even a self-awareness, just a pure being.
01:46:21
Speaker
and then you know whatever sparks life could happen again and maybe it'll have a totally different experience of a different form of life or something you know I think it's the possibilities are endless but I think the main thing is that it's just basically ego dissolution where you will never stop being you will always be here now you will always be here now but it will be in a sense where you no longer think you're a human being
01:46:45
Speaker
that you understand that you are reality itself, that you are the entirety, the totality, that everybody that you ever loved was always you. And I think the strongest reason I believe that is because during the strongest psychedelic experiences, that's the exact experience I have, where I totally let go of myself as Joe. I know I'm not Joe anymore.
01:47:04
Speaker
I know this is that's not who I am and then I I can see that everything that I ever loved all the people that appeared to be separate for me were never actually separate it was just a part of the game so I think that your ego and when your ego dissolves you just become one with everything that you ever loved you see everything as love itself that there was no actual pain or trauma that it was all just beauty and perfection
01:47:27
Speaker
And then you are just in a state of pure being. And then, you know, I would say that's an infinite moment. And I think that that's where you infinitely are. But we just can't recognize that in this state of consciousness. I think that's exactly where we are. And I think like when you take a hit of TMT, it just shows you this is where you've been this whole time. You just weren't seeing it.
01:47:49
Speaker
So I think that's what it is, and there is no actual death because there's no actual you. It's just an illusion of the ego. So when you have the ego dissolution, it's not that you have died, it's that you have come to life, that you understand that you're seeing your true self for the first time, or technically not the first time because you've always been there. So you're seeing yourself as you truly are and recognizing that's what you've always been.
01:48:14
Speaker
So I don't know too much. I don't go too deep in the reincarnation thing because I don't have any experience of that being true. I think it's logically sound, but to me I feel, for me deeply what I feel like is true is that it is basically just a realization of the true self.
01:48:32
Speaker
the dissolution of the ego, the understanding of what reality is, what it always has been, and then you're in an infinite moment of pure being, and it's just like a pure love. And that's what I think death is. I have a question. Do you think thinking like that helps with grief? Yeah, absolutely. Like when Pop Pop passed away and when Nana passed away, like,
01:48:59
Speaker
do you feel not I don't want to say the word less sad because I feel it's sad that they're not here with us anymore but with the thinking like that they they are yeah so does it
01:49:12
Speaker
Does it help with that grief that you know that they're still around, they're just not in their meat suit? I think that it helps, but I think it's even better than that because yeah, you're always gonna feel grief because you're going to miss the experience of the person. But then I have the foresight to know, this is just my belief, so I say I know because this is how I feel, that when I die, I will be one with them.
01:49:42
Speaker
And actually I already am, but it's just hard for me to see it through this state. So like, and it helps, it comforts me in ways where it's like, I'm more concerned about how other people feel when they're approaching death. I want them to feel good and say, you know, just die with grace and love and you'll, you know, you'll see it's okay. I don't want to, you know, pain is what people are truly afraid of. They don't want to experience pain and suffering. So if you surrender and then,
01:50:10
Speaker
I think it's far more beautiful than the idea of like, oh, I'm going to go to heaven and see everyone I love again. It's like, no, you're going to be them in a sense. You're going to understand who they are through a state of being.
01:50:29
Speaker
the ego dissolution is also the dissolution of all separation. So everything that you find to be separate from yourself, it's all you and it's always been you. It's just that you haven't been able to see it.
Psychedelics and Understanding Death
01:50:41
Speaker
And I think that through altering consciousness you can
01:50:44
Speaker
have the experience definitively where you say, okay, that is undeniable. And the reason I, like I mentioned, apply the psychedelic state to death is because it's the closest thing we have to death as far as the images we see in this physical experience of the brain being shut down. I think it's going to be an extreme version of the most intense psychedelic trip you have.
01:51:05
Speaker
And I think that, like I said, during the process, there might be an aspect of like a life review, your life flashing for your eyes. But when you finally go through it, then it's just a pure state of being of oneness. But like I said, since time, I don't think is like a real thing. It's actually like an infinite process. So it's not like it's just going to happen and then you're going to get to the other side and be there. It's like an infinite happening.
01:51:35
Speaker
I have one more question and comment. So comment first. So perhaps they should be giving psychedelics to people who want to end their life rather than letting them end their lives. Absolutely. And like this is something that's been talked about, which I think needs to be done is psychedelics with hospice patients, giving them psychedelics, psychedelics in nursing homes. I think this is just
01:51:58
Speaker
It's just absolutely cruel that we don't do this. There's a couple doctors that are doing it now. It's starting to like be talks about terminal illness. Yeah, I mean, mushrooms have helped countless people accept death, psychedelics.
01:52:11
Speaker
have helped me in, I mean, not totally fearing death. I mean, living through the materialist paradigm, it's like terrifying, thinking like, you know, it's weird. There's an aspect of it that's terrifying because death is the end of everything. But there's also, I think people are easy to grasp that ideology because there's a little bit of comfort there too, because they think, you know, it'll be all over. It's just like sleeping, you know, nothing. But I don't think that's the case. I think you're always going to be here.
01:52:39
Speaker
I didn't get to ask this before, but it I was thinking about it on a prior question. Do you guys think that doing what like, you know, going the journey that you guys have been on, do you think that helps you like, stab off a midlife crisis?
01:52:54
Speaker
Hopefully I don't really think about it. But yeah, I would say probably because I'm not concerned with it I try to just like literally just live in the moment and accept the moment I I know for sure I haven't been depressed in a very I just don't get depressed anymore. I don't have it Yeah, I don't get like I don't get the emotions that I used to I just live in a state of acceptance I'd say
01:53:19
Speaker
Yeah, I agree. I do think that the journey psychedelics really, really help with with all of that.
01:53:28
Speaker
You know, I, I agree. I haven't been like depressed since. I mean, not even at all, because it allows you to, to transmute those feelings of depression and those, those negative feelings that you have into something else. You know, it's like alchemy. It's mental alchemy, essentially, you know, uh, you have these new tools that you're able to analyze and contextualize.
01:53:53
Speaker
All events that happen including death you know and as you had brought up the call with the you know and pop up passing away you know i. There's a certain amount of there there's like joe said you're never going to. Elleviate the pain.
01:54:09
Speaker
So if you're looking to alleviate pain, psychedelics aren't necessarily the course. I don't think there is a course of action that you can eliminate the pain, but being able to understand and have a conceptualization of what death is allowed me to eliminate a part of a massive part
01:54:33
Speaker
the grief that I would have had just not there anymore because there's an understanding you know and it's an understanding that this this person is to me it it brings to mind the quote death is like taking off a tight shoe and it's perfectly safe I see death as ultimate liberation from the the thing that we're doing now it's ultimate freedom and
01:55:01
Speaker
So I see our data and pop up and anybody else who, who passes away as they are going into the next journey. They're like, they're, they're traveling to the great beyond to the next, the next quest, you know, they're, they're being liberated of all of the things that, you know, shackle us and hold us here. And, you know, in terms of the, um, the reincarnation part of it.
01:55:24
Speaker
I like the idea. The way I think about reincarnation is like, if you think for a second about the fact that all of reality, everything that you've ever experienced as reality is from a first person perspective inside your head, where you're seeing your hands and your legs and like, it's just this weird first person experience. I think that that is inevitable. It's going to happen again.
01:55:50
Speaker
There's going to be a time when I lose my consciousness. And as you said, Alana, and I think Joe, you brought it up as well. It's really dependent on the state of mind that you're in, how much at peace you are when you transition. And I think it's very possible that as the Hindus and some Buddhists say, you know, there's a 49 day Bardo period where you have this life review and you, you know, get to sort of like,
Love as a Guiding Principle
01:56:17
Speaker
move around within this consciousness space and experience your life review and what you've done, or you can zip back into a new life. And I think it's just inevitable that when we fall asleep into our inevitable death, we're going to wake up into another ego-based first-person perspective of consciousness where we're moving through a three-dimensional world. I think that's what species do. I think we evolve.
01:56:46
Speaker
with the purpose of expanding our consciousness through experiences of love. I think that's the main thing that the life review is based off of, is how much love have you spread? Because that's the only thing that I can think of that would be
01:57:05
Speaker
a constant and easy way to judge life that is universal. It transcends ideology because if I were to judge what I think everybody in this room has done in their life and I can judge it based off of my perspective and my morals.
01:57:25
Speaker
what transcends all of that is love. I think it's the only thing that transcends all of it. So to me, that's, that's what, that's what you do. You love and you learn. You love as number one, number one, way, way at the top and then way, way down below. And number two is learning. You do both of those things.
01:57:46
Speaker
And then, you know, maybe if we want to get real specific, if you really want to go into reincarnation itself, maybe that determines what type of embodiment your consciousness has when you do come back. So if you're shitty, you'd be a little slug, huh?
01:58:02
Speaker
Or if you're shitty, maybe you would inhabit a biological being that will teach you how to not be shitty for the next time. Because again, that second thing is learning. You have to learn. So it seems to me that with each subsequent incarnation,
01:58:23
Speaker
The, whatever you get put into is a means to love more and a means to learn more. And the more we do, the more we, we ascend possibly. Um, but I pretty much agree with like everything that Joe said, you know, I really do resonate with that. You know, when you have these psychedelic experiences, like you were saying, it shuts down your default mode network, which is the central position of your, uh, in your brain of your ego of who you are.
01:58:52
Speaker
So I think the thing that we define ourselves as is going to go away, but something will persist. Some part of us, whatever that may be, something I think will persist. And I think what that thing is, we'll mention another paradox. I think what that thing is, I think that is my soul, that is my being, but it is also the collective at the same exact time. I think those things are both interchangeable.
01:59:21
Speaker
My last, the last thing I'll say about death is I really, it's a statement about life. Um, I think that there, again, I, you know, I mentioned earlier, this, this field of, of whatever, there, there, there's a field of something that connects all of us. And I think the, the meaning of life, the, the, the point of this whole thing is, is to, to further fill the vessel of our connection with love and
01:59:53
Speaker
I think love siren. Yeah, that is the love siren. And you know, I think that if you go into the transition of death in a way that is peaceful in a way that is loving when you're and you have prepared for it, I think it's very imperative that we prepare for these things. And this is where the free will comes in. We have a responsibility to ourselves. And to every living thing in the universe, including our planet and all others.
02:00:19
Speaker
to to do just that to to fill our cups with love and to um to strengthen the connection that we all have to ourselves that unseen connection and also the unseen connection that we have to the realms of spirit that was beautifully said thank you you've ever heard the the metaphor of um the the moth and flame metaphor where it's like
02:00:44
Speaker
So all the moth wants is the flame. So the moth spends its whole life trying to get to the flame. It makes it three inches through the flame, and it gets scared, and it turns back. And then it sees the flame again, and it's just always going for the flame. And it goes there, gets two inches, and it gets scared, and it goes away. And it gets even closer, and it goes away.
02:01:05
Speaker
Because then Moth realizes that in order to get the flame, he has to become the flame. He has to no longer be himself. Meaning that, you know, as human beings, we spend our whole lives chasing love and happiness.
02:01:19
Speaker
And, you know, we're afraid to die. We get close to the thing and then we run away. We're afraid to lose ourselves, our egos. But in order to get to the thing, in order to get to the absolute love, the happiness, you have to become the thing. You have to lose the ego. You have to become the flame. And then you fall into that what you truly are. So it's like a moth through a flame.
02:01:40
Speaker
This reminds me of the Terence McKenna quote where he says, like, you know, you, you jump, you hurl yourself into the abyss. It takes all of the courage in the world. He says this about psychedelics, but I think it really applies to death. You hurl yourself into the abyss with all the fear, but you have the courage to do it anyway. And you find that when you fall, you're falling onto a feather bed, a soft feather bed. It's like you, you have to overcome the built in systematic fears that you have in order to merge with the one.
02:02:09
Speaker
Right. Like death hurts or death means you fall and hit the ground. Again, it's perfectly safe. It's like taking off a tight shoe liberation. It's purely like the attachment to the ego. And I think that's where like kind of Buddhism gets it right with Buddhism losing attachments. And I think we are just so attached to everything that we don't see
02:02:31
Speaker
we don't see what actually is. So we're just so attached, we don't want to lose this because this is all we know. So if you spend life, I think, preparing for death in a way. For instance, the ancient Egyptians, they spent thousands of years dedicated to preparing for death. That was their thing. Egyptian, their culture was all about, not like a death culture, but kind of. They were preparing for the afterlife and understanding it as far as what we know about them.
02:02:59
Speaker
And I think that we, in our culture, we basically just avoid death. We have a horrible tradition when it comes to our elders and older people. We just throw them in homes and we don't want to see the elderly. We just don't want to see it because we don't want to see ourselves in that. We don't want to see that we're going to be that one day and die. Whereas other cultures, the elders were revered. They were the smartest. They were the ones that been through it.
02:03:24
Speaker
So it's like we are doing things in a weird backwards way. And it seems like we're so avoidant of death, like we just don't want to look at it, don't want to think about it, it's not going to happen to me. And when it does, it's just going to be over. And that's it. I think that's the wrong approach. I can agree with that. I like that. It's funny, because when you like if you think of like Native Americans, they didn't take you to the person that know much, it's not the chief, it's not going to be the person that runs the
02:03:51
Speaker
the tribe, it's going to be the wise man that's been around forever. Yeah, I love that. This is exemplified in shamanism as well. You have these ancient and not so ancient cultures that are still around now. The shaman is the wise one who goes into the realms, becomes one with the realms, and comes back
02:04:13
Speaker
and then has information, fruits, and healing for the village, for the community. And I think it's a very important role. And I think we need to bring shamanism back, man. We got to bring it to the west. Yeah, I mean, now it's just pure science is our shaman, basically. I would say religion's dying, I feel, slowly. Well, what Nietzsche said, he's like, God is dead. We killed him. And I mean, I think we're seeing the fruits of that.
02:04:40
Speaker
I mean, it's not like I'm totally for a purely religious culture, but I think an understanding of God and a higher self or just a higher power is pretty essential to a human being.
02:04:54
Speaker
Yeah, this this was awesome though. Thank you guys for all this man. I mean, it's been it's been great. Yeah. I love this. It was a lot of fun. I'd love to do it again. I'll be recording with you guys later tonight. Tonight UFOs and bros five. I love it. It's gonna be awesome. Open to talk about currently what's happening in abductions.
02:05:15
Speaker
And also, let everybody know where they can find you and what you got going on. We're on all streaming pod, anywhere you can stream podcasts. We, I try to update every Tuesday and I've been pretty steady on that. So every Tuesday you can catch us. And it's my wife, my two good friends, Spencer and Devin and myself.
02:06:44
Speaker
you