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74. Immaculate Constellation and UFOs
18 Plays1 month ago
In today’s episode, we discuss the secret government program, Immaculate Constellation, as revealed in the recently released document by a whistleblower in the US government. This document outlines a program where the Department of Defense has been gathering information on UFOs or anomalous objects, that defy conventional technology in mind bending and impossible ways, which is counter to the official narrative that UFOs are related to conspiracy theories and fantasy. We go over some of the more interesting aspects of the document, and discuss the congressional and senate hearings that happened recently regarding this topic.
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Transcript
Exploring Consciousness and Metaphysics
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello and welcome to Pursuit of Infinity, a podcast where we journey into the landscapes of consciousness and beyond, diving deep into the realm of psychedelics, metaphysics, and more.
Revealing UFO Secrets: Immaculate Constellation
00:00:11
Speaker
In today's episode, we discuss the secret government program Immaculate Constellation, as revealed in the recently released document by a whistleblower in the US government.
00:00:21
Speaker
This document outlines a program where the Department of Defense has been gathering information on UFOs or anomalous objects that defy conventional technology in mind-bending and impossible ways, which is counter to the official narrative that UFOs are related to conspiracy theories and fantasy.
Connecting with the Audience
00:00:40
Speaker
We go over some of the more interesting aspects of the document and discuss the congressional and Senate hearings that happened recently regarding this topic.
00:00:49
Speaker
But before we get to it, as always, you can visit our website, PursuitOfInfinity.com, where you can listen to the podcast through our integrated media player, if you'd prefer that, over Spotify, Apple, Audible, or any of the other podcast platforms. You can also find all the places you can follow us and you can reach out to us using our email form or our audio feature.
Supporting the Podcast: Engagement and Gratitude
00:01:10
Speaker
Give us a follow on Instagram at Pursuit of Infinity Pod and head on over to our YouTube channel at youtube dot.com slash at Pursuit of Infinity, where we post all of our episodes and shorts in video format. If you love the show and you want to show us some support, please consider giving us a like a sub or a five star rating wherever you listen or watch and leave us a comment or review as these things really help us to conquer the algorithms and spread our conversations far and wide.
00:01:39
Speaker
If you really love the show and you want to show us some extra support, visit our Patreon at patreon dot.com slash p pursuit of infinity to become a
Questioning Surveillance and Government Involvement
00:01:48
Speaker
patron. We appreciate each and every one of you. Thank you so much for listening and I hope you enjoy today's episode.
00:02:10
Speaker
So Joe, do you think that as a lot of these people in Congress are saying and everybody around the Internet who's talking about this, do you think that they're correct when they say um if you speak the words immaculate constellation, you're automatically put on some list?
00:02:31
Speaker
I mean, I wouldn't doubt if that was the case. I mean, now so many people have said it. I mean, supposedly it was like a super secret UFO program. So I wouldn't doubt that, you know, before it was exposed, if somebody said it, you know, they were.
00:02:52
Speaker
being watched maybe or something like that. But now that it's out in the open, it's like, there's so many people saying it, what's the difference? Because yeah, I guess that was like a big program that basically gathered data from a bunch of smaller programs.
00:03:09
Speaker
So I mean anything with UFOs is – I mean they say it that it's like beyond top clearance. like It's higher ah order of secrecy than nuclear weapons. So it wouldn't surprise me if this is a real document if or if it's a real program I should say, then yeah, it would make sense. yeah So there was this document that was released through a very credible journalist named Michael Schellenberg. He had broken the news, and then shortly after he broke the news, there was a congressional hearing, which was what, November 13th, I think, right? Yeah.
00:03:52
Speaker
So in the congressional hearing, ah they brought this up and they they talked about it, and it's the website of the – I forget which one of the Congress members on her web website. She published the document itself.
00:04:10
Speaker
So anybody can just go on to her website at any time and read the full document. It's only 11 pages. Um, but it is pretty nuts, especially for like the layman, anybody who doesn't really steep themselves in the, um, the world of UFOs and UAPs. It's really insane because it goes into detail, not just about um certain things that the government has uncovered by analyzing high quality data that's been given to them um from a bunch of these organizations, as you had said, but it goes into detail as to each
00:04:51
Speaker
There's like a little table for each type of UAP and the types of things that they were able to uncover about it. So for instance, um one of them will say is the spherical or orb.
00:05:06
Speaker
ah Type uaps and they have the size speed signatures colors surface details behaviors atmospheric phenomena and biological effects and they have the they have those categories for pretty much each of the um the types, and I'll just quick roll through the types here. So the first one is sphere slash orb, then disk slash saucer, oval slash tick tack.
00:05:39
Speaker
triangular, um, boomerang slash arrowhead irregular slash organic, which is really piquing my interest. And I believe that's all of them. But and I mean, that is, that's kind of crazy for the layman to hear about all these different types of UAPs that they were able to gain information on.
00:06:00
Speaker
And it's worth noting that like the list that you just stated there is like, that's listed in order of frequency. So the spheres being the first you listed as the most frequent ah being observed and then goes to discs and the triangles and irregular and like the irregular refers to things like the jellyfish UAP, or they talk about a floating brain. Like it looks like a brain with tentacles. Like that's the jellyfish. But, um,
00:06:29
Speaker
Yeah, this is what I think ah what mike and Michael Schellenberger brought to the hearing, which ah I think is pretty awesome because Michael Schellenberger is like, he's a legitimate journalist. He's not particularly like steeped into UFOs, so it's good to see like someone from the outside um looking into it and then taking it seriously.
00:06:54
Speaker
And I guess this is this all stems from one source, as far as I know, or like one specific guy who has access to this information. And supposedly, ah there's other researchers too that have access to this same source. I guess like Jeremy Korbel, another UFO researcher, um he's in with this source as well. So you got multiple people supposedly saying that this document is legitimate or The information within it is legitimate that this is a real program or was a real program. And of course, you know you got the Pentagon denying its a or its existence or just stating that there was no immaculate constellation program. but
00:07:43
Speaker
You know, it's frustrating because as you look at like this document and the claims being made and what Shellenberger said in the hearing and he basically states that according to his source and according to this document here that our government has High resolution photos and videos. um And he said hundreds if not thousands, like high resolution. um You have Christopher Mellon, who's like way up there in the Defense Department. And, you know, the whole Mellon family, his whole legacy, he's like totally connected.
00:08:20
Speaker
He's been stating for a while now that we definitely have high resolution satellite imagery of these things. i mean You think about our satellite technology that we have nowadays. like You can read the license plate on a car from a satellite. like we are The whole planet is being scanned constantly by satellites all over the globe. So if we know that there was or supposedly a UFO reported here at this time,
00:08:48
Speaker
The data is there to go look and it's high resolution. so I wouldn't doubt that they have thousands of images that are just so highly classified because the reality of UFOs cannot be allowed into our lexicon. It can't be allowed into reality because the second that it's shown like undeniably on like a high resolution image with that's credible or like videos that are legitimate,
00:09:17
Speaker
I mean, then there's that blows everything out the window. You keep hearing in these hearings and stuff. ah We like the Michael Gold who was he was like former NASA and he worked with aerospace. He was the least compelling of the witnesses at the hearing. um He kept talking about and you hear this a lot like we have to reduce stigma. We have to do the research. um But the thing is,
00:09:44
Speaker
I think all the data is there. There's so much data. It's just being hidden. There's so many files. They're just hidden, classified, and what's released, they're so much redacted. So it's like, you want to reduce stigma, then just put the shit out there. Put the stuff out there and the stigma will be shattered because I believe, and if anyone I think who looks into this deeply, like we'll see a history. like long like a long history of there being some reality to this. What it is, I'm not sure, you know but there is a reality to it and I think there's a ton of data. so you know You want to reduce the stigma, you can just shatter it by giving ah you know some credible information and releasing it. so you know There's definitely a lot of powerful people who don't want that to happen, obviously.
00:10:39
Speaker
Yeah, and I'd like to talk a little bit just for about 10 seconds about ah this Arrow ah Senate hearing that happened yesterday, just because it was such a worthless waste of time. i It was like a 20 minute yeah hearing, and this guy, essentially all he did, the guy that replaced Kirkpatrick,
00:11:05
Speaker
All he did was essentially do his best to debunk the mysterious popular videos like the Go Fast video and the one where ah the UAP dips into the water and then comes back out. Like what he's trying to do is debunk these anomalous videos and the things that ah that gained a lot of popularity. And what I love about the Immaculate Constellation ah document is that these are all the what they would call anomalous situations where are they're completely unexplainable. You know, you talk about the organic looking ones, the brain with the the tentacles coming off of it, the jellyfish, some of the years, yeah, like everything that's listed in that, um that document is completely anomalous. And
00:12:01
Speaker
Notice none of the senators in the Senate hearing even brought up or even said the name Immaculate Constellation because they there's no way that that guy from Arrow was going to confirm anything from there. Right. And you know they've they did one ah previous. They did one more of these in the past, one of these Senate hearings.
00:12:23
Speaker
And um this was when Kirkpatrick was in charge yet. And man, it was the exact same thing. So like basically, it's just they show some imagery that's like supposedly anomalous, which it's not. I mean, the ones they showed last time were nothing spectacular in the previous one as well. But um they show you imagery and then they debunk it in front of you. And that's like my thought. It's like, okay, that's cool.
00:12:50
Speaker
But that's not what we're here for. We're not here for the ones you can debunk. We're here for the ones that can't be debunked. So why are you showing me, ah it's ah it's by definition not anomalous at this point. Why are you showing me conventional ah videos of, you know, he wants to talk about balloons and birds and stuff. It's like, no, we're aware that 95%, maybe 99% of sightings of videos are going to be conventional.
00:13:19
Speaker
It's the 1% that these organizations are created for, what the public wants to see. It's the 1% that are truly anomalous, that are you cannot just brush away. You can't even question. That 1% is what we want to talk about. But instead, same as in the first ah Senate hearing, they spent the majority of the time talking about ones that could be explained.
00:13:43
Speaker
And they had a ah they did a public NASA hearing because NASA was also getting involved in researching, which is kind of a joke in my opinion. But NASA was getting involved and they did the exact same thing. And Kirkpatrick was actually at the NASA one as well. They did a public thing and they were like just basically showing grainy black and white garbage imagery and then debunking it. And, and you know, and none of it's compelling really anyway. Most of it, at least, is not that anomalous. So they just show the imagery and then debunk it, ah which is not what any of us are here for. And I'll say what I did find, interestingly, the most compelling about the the Senate hearing
00:14:29
Speaker
It was nothing. It was no imagery, no specific like facts or groundbreaking news, nothing like that. But the new head of Arrow, he relayed two anecdotal stories that he was investigating or that were relayed to him. And the one he talked about, I believe it was a police officer who had a sighting.
00:14:52
Speaker
and he saw some type of object and long story short, basically it did sound like it was something truly anomalous because he said that it shot up vertically like a hundred times faster than any drone and they saw some lights. You know, basically he conveyed a couple of stories that he was told that did sound anomalous. So, you know, him just telling a story was the most compelling part of the whole hearing, which is pathetic because these are supposed to be, you know,
00:15:22
Speaker
This is the government of our country and they can't offer up anything when the public is asking. So, I mean, the Senate thing was pretty much a joke. At least the congressional one, you had Lou Elizondo, you know, former counter intel ah head of ATIP. He said some pretty, you know, nothing new to us that actually follow the topic of UFOs, but he said some pretty, um,
00:15:51
Speaker
What's the word I'm looking for? I don't know. He stood firm in his beliefs and stated it under oath. So he did say under oath that he believes that this is non-human, that it's not created by human hands. um Also interestingly enough, one of the congressmen asked Elizondo if um he was ever read in to Immaculate Constellation.
00:16:17
Speaker
And Elizondo said that he could not answer that. And, you know, he could have just said no. So it just gives you some thought that maybe he was read into some of these um projects. what Same thing when he was asked about crash retrievals. He couldn't say much, which clearly, you know, apparently, according to David Grush, there is something there. So.
00:16:43
Speaker
I mean I'm hoping that we get more ah congressional hearings. I'm not – I'm pretty much done with Arrow at this point. um You know, they got rid of Kirkpatrick and now their job is to pretty much convince the public that they are a real organization. But really Arrow, it's just like Blue Book 2.0. If anybody who knows Project Blue Book was um decades ago, of a program designed to investigate you ah UFOs. But then it turned out later, it was... pretty much designed to just debunk all cases. So it was pretty much to shut down the UFO discussion. And I think Arrow is the same thing. It's the Pentagon investigating the Pentagon.
00:17:28
Speaker
And, you know, as far as the new, uh, head of Arrow, I can't recall his name off the top of my head, but supposedly there's a lot of people who are saying good things about him. Like he is an improvement from Kirkpatrick, um, that he is, you know, not a horrible guy. But the point is the organization itself, I don't think will allow for anyone to do much good.
00:17:55
Speaker
Yeah, I totally agree. um And, you know, you bring up Lou Elizondo and um the Immaculate Constellation documents basically give him a lot of credit um and legitimacy, you know, basically saying that he is who he says he is. He's a very legit guy. And what he's saying is on the right track and he's part of, you know, exactly Like what it is that's going on behind the scenes. Um, which brings to mind, like the guys like Steven Greer, who talk about Elizondo as if he's not legitimate. So I mean, that's another discussion all in itself, but another thing that he said, uh, Elizondo in the congressional hearing that was really compelling to me.
00:18:42
Speaker
Was that we have to redefine what we consider organic like what we define life as right. And to me that is super interesting because you look at some of these things.
00:18:57
Speaker
um Like the jellyfish and like some of the stuff that moves very strangely, like that weird, uh, blue luminescent rope looking thing that was, uh, I guess captured in Philadelphia and some other places. And these things don't look like quote unquote spaceships or drones or metal objects that are flying around that are being controlled by either a pilot or something else. They they look almost as if they're, um, they're like life.
00:19:28
Speaker
And i think another thing that's very interesting about the ones that look like their life i mean i'm not sure if this is exactly. ah if These are exactly the ones that the document is referring to but the immaculate consolation document also talks about. um Like psychological effects that happen to people who come into contact with these things.
00:19:48
Speaker
Um, high levels of anxiety, uh, like this weird creepiness that they're being watched or that they're having some sort of a mental interaction with what they're seeing, even though it's not something that looks like an animal as if you and I are having an interaction. I think that's one of the most compelling parts about it.
00:20:08
Speaker
And you know it' it there's definitely, in my opinion, there seems to be some strange psi aspect to this, like something involved with the psychic, I don't know, because it also happens to be that a lot of people that have a sighting will um get have more sightings. Like it's not just happenstance that they see one once, so they see one and then it becomes integrated into them as like a part of their life almost. um like And this has even been documented in like the government but or like Lou Elizondo is a good example. It turns out that people that started to investigate this started having experiences of their own.
00:20:52
Speaker
So Elizondo, I didn't read his new book, but i've I hear him in interviews and stuff. He talks about after you know being an ATIP and doing all these investigations, he started having encounters with green orbs.
00:21:09
Speaker
in his home, around outside his home and even inside his home. So over like a six-month period, they would randomly appear, like they're literally a green orb in his house. Do with that what you will, believe it or not, doesn't matter. This is a reoccurring theme though. Supposedly, a lot of people in the program OSAP, which was like basically the first ah modern UFO program in the last 20 years or so,
00:21:36
Speaker
where ah people on OSAP who were investigating things like Skinwalker Ranch, a lot of these people were having ah experiences. And this is where they coined the term ah the Hitchhiker Effect, which is basically people would go to Skinwalker Ranch, maybe have an experience there, maybe not. But the Hitchhiker Effect is when you bring the phenomenon home with you.
00:22:00
Speaker
So people would, you know, go to the ranch, maybe have an experience, some of them maybe not even have an experience, and then fly back across the country to their home in, you know, DC and whatnot, and then have an experience at their home. So there's some type of ah connection, I think maybe ah psychically, I don't know. And um I also want a quick touch on you you talked about the ah life aspect of the craft themselves or the objects, whatever you'd like to call them. um Perhaps there is, you know, maybe a form of life. Maybe some of these UAPs are actually living entities. That could be true. That's been talked about. There have been movies made about that. ah So it's possible. And also, even if we're talking about craft, you know,
00:22:53
Speaker
flying objects that hold other entities or beings, this has been reported a lot that from experiencers and you know ah ah abductees, whatever, and even researchers ah um and people attached to the military that sometimes the craft, it would look as if the skin of the craft was alive.
00:23:17
Speaker
Like um that it had a ah living feeling to it. Like you kind of mentioned, like you're being watched. People just reported that they it appeared in some instances that the craft may have been alive. And that also that there was some form of mind connection with the craft.
00:23:37
Speaker
In order to operate it so for instance the reason why let's say with the Lazar craft you would go inside the craft and they looked around and there were no you know steering wheel or toggles or there was nothing like that supposedly.
00:23:56
Speaker
that these crafts are operated through some form of psychic ability or you you know some type of mind control is how they're operated. and um This has been said over and over again. ah There have been cases of abductees.
00:24:14
Speaker
And this is back in the 70s and 80s before there was internet or any way that people across the country could connect with each other and fabricate a story. But there were stories from abductees all across the country back in the 80s.
00:24:31
Speaker
that they would, these are reoccurring experiencers, so they would have reoccurring experiences of getting on a craft. And it's interesting, they all describe the exact same thing, which was at one point during their lives when when they were having these experiences, they kind of build it to a scenario where they would find themselves on the craft and there would be two entities behind them. They all said this exact same thing, which I find fascinating, that they would be on the craft, there would be two entities behind them, and they would actually allow these abductees to fly the craft. So it seems crazy, and it is crazy, but this was reported in the 80s before there was any type of you know way that you could like look on Reddit and see this person said it, I'm gonna say it, that type of thing.
00:25:24
Speaker
But they all reported there would be two entities behind them. They would instruct them to fly the craft and basically all they would do was put their hand on the craft, like just set their hand on it and think and it would move with their thoughts. So it was controlled by their minds. One reported um that they put their hand on it and they thought that they wanted to see the Milky Way galaxy from afar. And before the thought was even almost complete, like right as the thought happened, they were looking at the Milky Way galaxy from the outside.
00:26:02
Speaker
So it's it's a crazy story, um but if you think about it, you know we talk about breaking the speed of light. Well, the only thing I can imagine being faster than the speed of light is the speed of thought, the speed of mind. So maybe that somehow that's the way that these things are able to travel vast distances, if in fact they are traveling vast distances.
00:26:25
Speaker
in such a short amount of time. Maybe there's some type of mental aspect with the technology and maybe even some type of living aspect with the technology that allows some of this stuff to happen.
00:26:38
Speaker
Yeah, I like that you bring up the speed of time and the speed of mind because I've all I often think like how fast does it take the electrical signals of my brain to decide to move my fingers and try things that I'm doing like because it's it almost feels like an instantaneous.
00:26:57
Speaker
like thing you know and if there if there is an ability to create an object that you know because we call our cell phones an extension of our body imagine if there is a type of technology that can be created that is literally an extension of our body and can be created and manipulated in whatever way that it has utility with just a thought. You'd have to think a species that's able to do that would have to be so far advanced in terms of um intellectualal intellectual prowess and wisdom in general to be able to control their thoughts. I mean, we cannot control our thoughts as humans. We are weak minded.
00:27:42
Speaker
Um, in terms of our ability to control our thoughts. So imagine a species that's able to have such control of the mind that they're able to create extensions of their mind, you know, manifesting objects like, you know, that are an external mind of their own. It's, it's very, very insane.
00:28:02
Speaker
Yeah, you got to think about like, we're not even advanced enough to create a technology like that. to and Because like you said, we're weak minded, our minds are all over the place. So in order to integrate a tech with your mind, you have to have the mind to a responsible mind to control the tech. um But it's interesting because it seems like we are kind of in maybe like the stone age of that type of thing, if that, because we got, you know, Neuralink, that first Neuralink patient, he was like on the Joe Rogan podcast and whatnot, and he's able to control the mouse, like the cursor on his computer with his mind. He's able to play video games with his mind.
00:28:44
Speaker
which is mind-blowing in itself and you know putting a chip in your brain. like I'm imagining that is like this Stone Age version of what can become of that type of technology.
00:28:58
Speaker
so you know it's It's pretty wild though because even with a technology like that, it's just showing us that these things are possible. so Just to know that some of this stuff is possible just opens up new horizons for us.
00:29:13
Speaker
Yeah, and you know, it also it brings to question, you know, just consciousness in general, like, maybe you can create an object that inhibits consciousness, you know, we don't think it's possible to create technology that has consciousness built within it. But it might be possible that that's something that can exist. Or even, um you know, I always think of in the oceans, we don't know what's in our oceans, we we explore, I think, what is it 5% of the oceans, and that's being generous.
00:29:44
Speaker
So, you know, another thing that's interesting about the congressional hearing was the one guy was talking about sonar data of underwater anomalous objects. And I think that's a very interesting thing because these things could be um just a version of life.
00:30:00
Speaker
that we haven't come into contact with as humans. If you think about maybe a particular bird in the Amazon, that bird probably hasn't come into contact with a particular rodent that's only around in North America. so right It's possible it's probable that we haven't come across every living species on the planet and odds are if we haven't come across something that's really really out of you know our conception um and out of our realm of imagination it would be underwater some of the fish you see underwater just look like straight aliens so yeah think that.
00:30:37
Speaker
Some of that stuff underwater, I mean, it might be that might be where they're coming from. They might live there and they might just be coming up to explore the surface. And, you know, I've said this before, but, you know, I, I think about, uh, like the Pokemon Magnemite and this Pokemon is, you know, obviously.
00:30:55
Speaker
You know, fantasy, but it's a spherical piece of technology. It resembles technology, but it's a living organism. So it's possible that there is a living organism under the water as crazy as it may sound that resembles technology. And, um, you talk about the hearing with that was, uh,
00:31:18
Speaker
Admiral Gallaudet was the, you know, he was an admiral in the Navy. And he talked about a lot of the underwater stuff. And from what I've seen, like I say, plugged into the UFO stuff. And it seems to me that what's happening right now is that the water is becoming a huge narrative in all this.
00:31:40
Speaker
Um, as of now, like the trend now is with water more so than with space, you know? Um, so it is very, in my opinion, there is a high likelihood that it. If not come, if not only comes from underwater, but like it has its home base in the water that it is staying here for long periods of time.
00:32:04
Speaker
in the water. and you know ah I don't know if this was in the hearing, but I heard Gallaudet talk about this before. You know you talk about the sonar data. like Supposedly, there's a lot of this. and Supposedly, they have data showing that there's objects under the water that are moving like clocked at impossible speeds. Because you know you think about when you go in the water, you're met with all that resistance of water when you're moving through it. like We cannot move very fast under water.
00:32:34
Speaker
comparatively to through ah just air. But they have seen objects like massive objects move underwater faster than our fastest missiles, like just zoom by. um So there's definitely something major going on. Like you've mentioned, 5% of our oceans. So forget about UFOs and craft.
00:32:59
Speaker
But what you're kind of leaning into, just what kind of life can be under there. I mean, if we ah only explored 5% of land, think about how much we're missing.
00:33:12
Speaker
you can ah You can ah explore 5% of land on Earth, and if it's the wrong piece of land, you can miss humanity altogether. You never know humans existed. um So imagine what could be under there. ah We know that as human beings, we have technology to build bases underwater into like the shorelines, like the crust of the Earth there. So I think it's also likely that there could be actual bases under the water.
00:33:42
Speaker
um Also, like if we lean into the UFO's aliens from a different planet or another world, it would make sense for them to be in the water because imagine if you as a human were going to build a vehicle to travel other planets.
00:34:00
Speaker
Well, other planets are, they are very hazardous in millions of different ways and unpredictable in what you're going to ah get when you get to some planet. As far as like what is in the atmosphere, the temperature, all these things. How is my craft going to withstand all these external forces of another world? Well, if you design your craft to just be like, um,
00:34:27
Speaker
Let's say at its peak performance in water. Well, water is the same on all worlds because it has to be within a certain kind of temperature. it has It's, you know, and there's a lot of water worlds. The one thing that would vary is maybe like slight chemical compositions. But it would make sense if you're from another world that you would easily, more easily so design a craft.
00:34:49
Speaker
to go within water because it's, you know, it's a commonality and it doesn't vary that much. I mean, water has to be a certain temperature. It has to have certain qualities that you could prepare for. Whereas, you know, all the, you know, you see gas giants, all these crazy planets with, would be very hard to deal with a lot of their like, I don't know, natural elements.
00:35:16
Speaker
Yeah, and also if you're creating a craft is say you are from a different planet somewhere in a different galaxy. If you are creating a craft and you're creating it for the purpose of going to a different planet, then you're not going to create it based on the restrictions of the planet that you're living on. So you'd have the technology to handle.
00:35:39
Speaker
the pressure of water, you'd have the technology to handle different atmospheric conditions or even different natural disaster type conditions that might be perpetuating throughout the whole planet. You've got some planets that have storms that are larger than the earth, you know, you've got Jupiter, which is a very volatile place. So the the variety in which planets populate kind of gives um the craft themselves an equal amount of ah like variety in terms of what they're able to travel through and handle when they get to the planet that they're getting to, if it's conventionally, as we say, you know, going from one planet to another.
00:36:20
Speaker
Right. But then, you know, with these crafts, it also seems like, you know, there's video. I mean, we we have one video of um a craft going into water, but supposedly um it appears that these things seamlessly travel from air to sea. So it's like some people even say that there's not even a splash. So there's also the chance that these crafts are basically like concealed in their own pocket. So they're like protected by some form of like a force field or something like that because they just displace the space and time in front of them so they can kind of just fall into place and just go into the water without even creating any disturbance.
00:37:09
Speaker
Yeah, it kind of reminds me of like what we call dimensionality. You know, we talk a lot on this podcast about the DMT dimension or like the realms of the psychedelics. And imagine if you could bring something from that dimension or that realm here. right It's quite possible that that's what's happening. There's like a um maybe an entire dimension that these things are traveling within that sort of breaks through as a pocket into ours, and then it's able to just travel wherever whenever. I mean, who knows if it has the ability to um manifest itself um as whatever it may want, which is why there's so many different types of craft that are seen with weird lights and all types of craziness is possible that you know, they have the ability to
00:38:01
Speaker
And that you know that that kind of also brings to mind the the notion that it's possible that they want to be discovered in some way, that they are in charge of the slow trickle of disclosure because we're only seeing what they want us to see.
00:38:18
Speaker
right i mean um you We live in a fascinating time where, you know, we in the Western world, we live with all this technology and all that, but at the same time, there are places in the world where you can go talk to shamanic tribes and people who are kind of outside of our Western bubble. And if you talk to those people, they will say that, you know, the craft are, they're basically traveling here from the spirit realm.
00:38:47
Speaker
um And interestingly enough, like Graham Hancock, he has talked about in his own experiences of psychedelics on ayahuasca and DMT particularly, he has seen UFOs. He has seen what would we would call UFOs, some type of strange craft in these realms.
00:39:08
Speaker
um So, I mean, it just breaks open all these new possibilities of what these can be and what it says about our reality itself. um You know, ah Dr. John Mack, he wrote the book Abductions. He was a ah psychiatrist. He was the head of psychiatry at Harvard. He was like a brilliant dude, unfortunately hit by a car and died in like the early 90s, I think.
00:39:36
Speaker
um But before he died, like I said, brilliant guy. So he wasn't just, you know, like nuts and bolts, so just like looking at it and just the facts. He was like really big and pondering the significance of this and what does it mean and what could this be? He was a very brilliant guy with an open mind. And it turns out that he was, he ended up leaning towards the end of his life.
00:40:02
Speaker
leaning toward this being some kind of shamanic type of thing, like leaning more towards this being some technology to transfer you from realms, like from the spirit realm to here. There's videos on YouTube of him talking with tribes and they they these people talking about how they have a relationship with these beings and these craft and they have known these star people for centuries.
00:40:28
Speaker
Um, so there's a chance that this is even far stranger than we can imagine. And, you know, there's also a good chance that this is many things that it's, you know, it could be a little bit of this, a little bit of that. So, but I find the, um, the spirit realm,
00:40:51
Speaker
being like it's super interesting to me that this could be a technology that doesn't travel through space and time, but kind of comes from a separate realm of existence, a different part of mind that we as human beings don't access.
00:41:07
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, David Grush talked about the interdimensional nature of these things as being something that's legitimate that they're actually researching within the government. um And this brings to mind dreams as well. um Interestingly, um very recently, I had the most terrifying UFO dream I've ever had. Oh, yeah, I want to hear this because ah you never got to it the other day, we we were going to talk about this.
00:41:34
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, we never ended up talking about it. But I'll just it was a pretty short dream. um I'll just be kind of short about it. But um so you, me and basically our whole side of the family.
00:41:49
Speaker
We were at some sort of ah an event. I don't know what it was because I wasn't it was behind me. Essentially the the event was behind us. We were in the bleachers. So we're in the bleachers and I look up and straight up in the sky. I see this circular.
00:42:07
Speaker
craft looks almost like a saucer type craft and on the bottom of it there's a bunch of like weird designs and it has almost like uh like a camera shutter you know like a camera shutter how it has like the circular way that it opens up and closes yeah well that was on the bottom of it and i saw it opening up and closing and opening up and closing and and as it's doing that it's just sort of coming down and i'm like yo jo and everybody i'm like look at this thing And Brian's next to me, you're next to him. And we're all staring at this thing as it's lowering down and coming closer to us. And I'm fumbling to get my camera because I have like, ah I buy good camera on me. I'm the one that I'm using right now for this for this video.
00:42:48
Speaker
And i'm fumbling to get this thing and brian is next to me our brother and he's saying do what are you doing get your camera out and i just like physically cannot get it but i finally get it out. And this thing is at this point it is ah i would say probably about thirty feet to the left of us there's a there's a couple.
00:43:06
Speaker
And this thing is this thing lowers like directly, I mean, inches from them. And then all of a sudden what comes out of it are these weird, like tentacle looking things, very similar to what like the jellyfish UFO looks like. So it's got these tentacle things and they're coming out of it. And the people that it's over, they are frozen.
00:43:26
Speaker
And then I look over at it and this thing starts coming toward me. And I felt that like mind communication with it, it felt like a living being.
00:43:38
Speaker
Which is so crazy that they talked about this exact same thing during that hearing. The next day. Yeah, the next day. Yeah. So this thing is like communicating with me and I feel its presence as a living being and I feel that it's coming at me and I am terrified and it's just slowly coming toward me and I'm just like taking pictures of it. Cause I finally have my camera out. I'm taking pictures, taking pictures. And then when it gets to be like so close, I could touch it. We're like, we gotta get.
00:44:04
Speaker
out of here so we all get up and we start bouncing and it follows us so it follows us to the side of the bleachers which is like a it's kind of like a sandy area and then it it drops a bomb and this thing explodes in the sand but does no damage to anything doesn't hurt anybody doesn't do any damage to the ground it just explodes and then you come over to me And you're like telling me like this thing really messed me up. Like my brain like and you're like you're you're telling me essentially about the like this psychological damage and you're like I you're like I feel like I want to kill myself. And I'm sure what
00:44:47
Speaker
And like, because this thing just terrified, especially you and I, nobody else really seemed too affected by it. But you and I were shook by this thing. And I woke up right after that. And I was scared, dude, I was like, I never want to see a UFO in my life. Like, I was, I was shook when I woke up, it was terrifying. But the most insane part was that communication and well actually feeling what they're describing.
00:45:14
Speaker
That's what I wanted to ask. What was the communication like? Do you remember if there's anything specifically said or if not, what kind of vibe or how did it feel? like what was the How would you describe the communication?
00:45:27
Speaker
It was intentional. Whatever it was doing was very intentional. And the way that these tentacles were coming out of it, there was an intention behind that as well. I was terrified, but I wasn't in actual danger. Like it didn't actually feel like it was going to hurt me in any way. And even when I dropped that bomb and like the bomb kind of blew up a little bit, it was almost like a like a firework bomb.
00:45:50
Speaker
It didn't hurt anything. It didn't do any damage and then the thing just bounced it just it just left So the the communication was nonverbal. It was only um Like feeling and it was I was really overwhelmed by fear In the dream, which is part of why I wasn't able to like really nail down the communication, but it almost felt like it was, uh, observing us and the tentacles were some sort of like measurement device or something that it was using to get gather information on what it was looking at.
00:46:25
Speaker
That's fascinating. see See, you know me, so you know this, but I put like, personally, I put a lot of stock into dreams. I think they're very important. um They are very real to me. um See, what I find fascinating is like you had this experience of something totally otherworldly in your dream.
00:46:48
Speaker
um And also the communication aspect. It's like in your dream, you're having an experience of this communication that is totally foreign to anything that happens in your like, quote unquote, real life, your waking life. So like in your dream, while you're having it, you don't know it's a dream. You know, it just feels you are in the present. You're in the now. This is what's happening. This is my life at this moment. Not until you wake up, do you realize, you know,
00:47:17
Speaker
Oh, that was nothing. I'll forget about that. But you're having a real experience of communication that is different than something you've experienced in real life. I find that significant. that like I've had dreams where, you know, I've told you about this, like having dreams where you take a psychedelic or even you have like a spiritual experience, like some type of awakening experience.
00:47:42
Speaker
something intense, something other than your experience that you have in your normal day-to-day life. So I find it fascinating that you're able to have an experience like that and you can't explain it away in my opinion because it is something foreign to your everyday life. It's not like you could have taken that from your life and then you know dreamt about it that that day. It's something totally foreign. and That's like the communication especially because I know what it feels like to have a dream where you're experiencing something totally new. like Not just you're looking at something new, but like it's a new experience to you to your core.
00:48:24
Speaker
Which, I mean, I've had plenty of UFO dreams, so I know how terrifying they are as well. um I think, you know, I don't know, it just fascinates me.
00:48:38
Speaker
Yeah, and it's it's a primal type of experience and a primal type of fear, which is very odd as well, because that isn't something that we have in our everyday waking life. I mean, you could make the argument that that's something that is lies dormant within us. Evolutionarily, you know, we've been, you know, we've we've evolved to.
00:49:00
Speaker
to survive in ah environments that are very volatile, especially in comparison to what we're experiencing now with the luxuries of Western life. But as you said, it's a brand new type of experience. It's just it's something that doesn't exist outside of that dream itself and um it's it's as if yeah very impactful it's something that changes the way that you think about because now when I heard then these people talking about um a mental communication and ah like mental effects of anxiety and this and that like a now I
00:49:38
Speaker
It might sound weird, and it might sound crazy, it might sound unbelievable to some people, but now I actually know what that feels like because I had that experience. And that's not to say that it's different when you experience it in this 3D world, you know, if you get, you know, some sort of a UFO experience that, you know, ah accompanies you with anxiety, but having that experience, it's something brand new that your mind does not take from fragments of your waking reality, because we always say all you know, dreaming is like a defragging process. It's like you're, you're taking all of your experiences, your thoughts for the day and all that stuff. It's all coming together in a weird amag amalgamation of an an experience.
00:50:20
Speaker
And it's sort of just like breaking down um your subconscious thoughts and presenting them to you in some weird way. But I just – I don't really buy that explanation. ah the Have you ever looked into or heard about Jung, Carl Jung's interpretation or stance on UFOs, I guess you could say? Have you heard about any of this? I have, yeah. A lot of this comes from the Red Book, right, from his – He like wrote a whole book on it, I'm pretty sure. Yeah.
00:50:48
Speaker
um but this i like i love carl jung and i think um One of the things I love about him, which is it's kind of controversial, to but I wouldn't say so, but he was an idealist. i Like he was a believer in reality being mental. At least that's my interpretation and people I've listened to that I trust their interpretations as well, people smarter than myself. But what he did with the UFO topic, I think illustrates this in a big way. See, what I love about Young is that he,
00:51:24
Speaker
he like collapses the line between mental and physical or like imaginary and real, you know, he he collapses that line. So what he said about UFOs was that it was a like an archetype of like a deep rooted, a deep seated fear that humanity have of what we could become in the future of being, you know, this goes with the alien beings as well, like the whole,
00:51:54
Speaker
typical UFO scenario like the craft, the beings. He thought it was a deep rooted fear and archetype within humankind of what we would become in the future if we were just purely technological. um We just killed our humanity became these kind of drone like hive minded entities like we lose all of our color, you know, we're just like gray all the same, just purely mental logic.
00:52:23
Speaker
yeah you get the idea. So it's like a deep ah-rooted fear of what humanity could become. And like I said before, how he collapses the line between imagination and reality or mind and matter, he collapses that. So he says,
00:52:43
Speaker
that he's not saying that these things are real. He's saying that it's actually a physical manifestation, that it is real. It's a real object that's really there, but it's it's coming from an archetype deeply rooted within the human mind. So it sounds funky because it doesn't align with our like normal thought of like, well, it's either real material or it's totally imaginary. It's either matter or mind, but this is the beauty of Jung. He's collapsing it and he's saying, like it is mind, but it's real. You know what I'm saying? I always found that ah fascinating and it you know it makes sense. i don't know
00:53:27
Speaker
if that's what it is. And I could imagine that could be what some of it is. um In order to believe that, you have to um align with a lot of like metaphysical beliefs, like a structure that would allow for that to be. But um I think it's totally fascinating.
00:53:44
Speaker
I mean, dude, that is idealism in a nutshell, essentially, because he's describing consciousness creating the physical reality that's around us. And as you said, you have to be able to have that sort of an open mind or that sort of an idealistic philosophy to be able to come up with that.
00:54:02
Speaker
and the fact that he does it from the perspective of a psychoanalyst is very intriguing because you don't see that very often in the world of idealism which i think is why so many people like bernardo castrop and a lot of these you know very prominent idealists um they love young and they take a lot of inspiration from him But, you know, it's interesting because that's not something that's really widely talked about um with Jung, like him being an idealist, which, I mean, for me, I don't, I'm just like, I have a super fascination with metaphysics in general. Like that's my passion, basically, what I really love. So, you know, a lot of that gets overlooked when you talk about someone like Jung. um
00:54:45
Speaker
I didn't know he was an idealist, I had no clue. um until like And even you can read his stuff and eventually you can come to that conclusion, but it's not like listed at the top of his beliefs or what he stood for.
00:55:00
Speaker
um but yeah i think the ah his take on UFOs is totally unique. I have never heard that anywhere else. I mean, he's so brilliant and a lot of his takes, so I think that's something worthy of really like thinking about.
00:55:17
Speaker
um you know i It takes an entirely like an entirely different worldview to really come up with something that brilliant. i mean that guy must have I wish he were still around to do the podcast circuit and to just discuss it UFOs. you know Maybe with AI, we'll be able to ah AI him into existence again.
00:55:42
Speaker
I think eventually that will happen. um And, you know, you brought up John Mack earlier and ah Terence McKenna had an interview with him. Yes. Terence McKenna is another guy that was really ah into the UFO ah world. He didn't talk about it all that much. But if you read his book, I believe it was the, it wasn't the invisible landscape.
00:56:08
Speaker
It was the one where he talked. I forget the the the title of it, but it was one of the it was the book where he described Him and his brother going down to La Charrera when they had their true hallucinations true hallucinations. That's the one Yeah, something about devil's paradise or whatever. Yeah, they went down to La Charrera and at near the end of the book and When they're coming down from like their week or so for week long um you know mushroom experience he says he describes um sitting on the edge of a mountain and looking up and just watching in the distance this little object come toward him.
00:56:45
Speaker
And it's just massive saucer UFO and it stops right above him and then flies away. So, um, he, he has had UFO experiences. You know, he talked, I think a lot to, um, what was that guy's name? Art Bell. Is that what his name is? Yeah. Yeah. coast to coast baby yeah He used to call into our bell show and they talked about UFOs among, you know, other esoteric topics. But yeah, that's another guy that's a very, very brilliant and was into that topic as well. And loved young.
00:57:14
Speaker
And you know, this leads me to think about this. There's like this strange. narrative that goes around with a lot of skeptical people when it comes to UFOs, that it's like, you hear this, like, why, you know, why are UFOs only seen in America? Like, like, there's some there is a narrative that exists that it's like, um some American phenomenon, like that it only exists here. This is where so people say, if it's only why isn't it everywhere else? But the truth is, it actually is everywhere else. And
00:57:50
Speaker
um When you brought up Terrence McKenna, it made me think about this, that there is a lot of people are unaware that there is a huge UFO presence in South America. Huge. and like Talking about true hallucinations, like in in the Amazon,
00:58:07
Speaker
ah There are a lot of UFO sightings down there. And if you read the book, True Hallucinations, he talks about like the Amazon having its own mystique, like it's a magical place. And a lot of people say that. um And ah impossible things happen down there. You got the tribes down there talking with their experiences with entities, all sorts of stuff.
00:58:31
Speaker
But ah in South America, it's huge. I mean, more I would say more prevalent than even here. There was an incident, the name of the town is ah escaping me right now, but there was a very popular incident in ah South America where UFOs actually attacked people.
00:58:53
Speaker
This is actually covered in um this new Netflix series, Investigation Alien, featuring George Knapp. It's his new series. It's like a six-episode series on Netflix. And they cover this, but this is super popular. um And they interview some of the women that were attacked. but there and the i I don't remember what branch of the military, but the military sent um people down there to investigate for a long time after this happened. It was a legitimate a legitimate um case that it was going on for like weeks where these UFOs would come and like terrorize this small town in South America. and um women There were a couple of women that like had marks left on their bodies from like lasers. um To me, you know that case is
00:59:48
Speaker
ah It stands out from others. It's one of the only cases that I can think of where UFOs were like attacking humans or appeared with some nefarious intent. so if If there were ever a case that I would say was like humans, maybe that's the one. Maybe they got a hold of some crazy tech and they were fucking with people on the Amazon, like defenseless jungle people. you know But that's the thing you can never, ah even with a case like that, you you have to project the intent. So we were saying like, oh, these things must have been terrorizing these people with evil intent. But actually, some of the witnesses who were interviewed thought that maybe that it was like a sampling, ah like a sampling exercise, like they were
01:00:40
Speaker
Some of the people, the way they described these lasers, that they might have been like taking blood from them. It sounds weird, but that's what some of the women that were attacked claimed, that um that maybe like the laser, the way it looked, it felt like maybe they were taking blood from their body. They were fatigued for a while after the incident. But this was a real incident that happened. and you know It was so intense that like many people fled the town. like They totally left for years and years, um but there is it exists. and It's one of the most famous cases, I just can't think of the name, but in South America. so you know it's definitely It's a worldwide phenomenon.
01:01:25
Speaker
and um you know People like to kind of just think that it's something that Americans talk about and that we kind of just build up in our own minds, but it happens all over. There's a lot of Russian cases, Chinese cases. It's worldwide.
01:01:43
Speaker
Yeah, I believe the immaculate constellation document talks about um governments around the world are working on this stuff together, um which is kind of strange to me as well, because you'd almost think that opposing nations would want to keep as much of this under wraps, especially if there's back engineering.
01:02:03
Speaker
programs, which we didn't even talk about. I mean, that's something that has been confirmed over and over and over again, as especially in ah the congressional hearing. Lou Elizondo essentially confirmed that, which is it's crazy to me that they allowed him to say that because he's only saying things that were cleared by the Pentagon, right?
01:02:24
Speaker
And he said multiple times like that he can't talk about crash retrievals. He's like, this is the one thing they said I cannot talk about, which is telling in itself. It speaks volumes that you know that he can't talk about crash retrievals.
01:02:39
Speaker
And he was able to confirm it's real. Right. And he couldn't confirm that he was read into the programs either. So he might be read into some of that stuff. There's ah there's a possibility he is read into some of these programs. um You talk about ah Bob Lazar. He even said when he worked at S4,
01:02:58
Speaker
if you believe Bob Lazar, whatever, if you do or don't, but this was his story. He said that when he was there, there were um Russians working there with him. And then he said that supposedly he wasn't involved in this sector or whatever these people were investigating. It was very compartmentalized. But one of the groups supposedly had a breakthrough. And he said right after the breakthrough, he never saw the Russians again, like they booted him out of there.
01:03:26
Speaker
So there is a chance that there is some type of global effort in a in some form to ah work on reverse engineering or just discovering how this science might work. But you know another big narrative going on that you hear is that this is basically Uh, it's like an arms race right now. So you got like global powers all working on this and like, it's basically a repeat of the nuclear bomb. Like whoever wins this race is going to hold global power. So, you know, it's, it's gotta be basically.
01:04:03
Speaker
America, Russia, and China are the three, you know, that are working on this. And if someone breaks the code, then they win. So that that makes me kind of think that we haven't figured it out yet. I would be surprised if we did, if we had this tech and we knew how to replicate it and we were just sitting on it for this long. I mean, it's possible. it It's possible that we have it and we just haven't been forced to use it yet, but I don't know, part of me thinks that that we have been pretty much stumped. And that that was Lazar's take too, as far as what he said, he said that there was not much progress being made.
01:04:50
Speaker
Yeah. And just as the atomic bomb was the end of world war two, I hope this isn't true, but it looks like it's possible that a world war three is on the horizon. And maybe the UFO technology that. Becomes harnessed happens to, uh, lead to the end of world war three too, and probably a very catastrophic way. If this technology is as powerful as they say it could be.
01:05:17
Speaker
Well, see, if we do enter World War III, I think it's going to be akin to like World War I, whereas in, you know, before World War I, war was totally different, you know? And then when World War I hit, it's like, oh my god, all these massive machines and metal and guns, it's just like totally blew everything out of the water. It's just mind blowing. I think with ah World War III, if it really exploded and It wasn't this little playful thing we're doing right now with our proxies, like fighting each other and using outdated weaponry. If it got to the point where it was full-blown World War III and all these superpowers were using their top tier weapons, I think it would get it would blow our minds because we have no idea what kind of technology we've developed. in i mean Dude, the nuclear bomb is almost 100-year-old tech.
01:06:14
Speaker
It is so old. It's that's super old technology, and that's what we're all afraid of and we're talking about. It's because that's all we know about. I mean, yeah I cannot imagine the type of stuff they have. like Even just thinking about like ah chemical weapons and biological weapons, all this different type of stuff that they could have developed by now. um We are aware of the nukes, so that's our biggest fear. But I feel like if we really knew, we would have a lot bigger fears.
01:06:43
Speaker
and you know, who knows, they might have some form of anti-grav tech. I mean, this stuff has been... See, that's why I'm kind of split if we have it or not. Because we have been looking into anti-grav tech for almost 100 years as well. like Pretty intensely, we've been going at it since the 50s. I know Eric Weinstein talks about this a lot. there was a lot of You could look at like old science headlines and science articles from like highly acclaimed, like popular magazines of the time and stuff, and the thing was anti-gravity.
01:07:22
Speaker
this That was the thing that was most popular, like the next thing. It's like, we're working on anti-gravity. We're going to have it in two years. or We just have to you know manufacture this stuff. We have it. And then it kind of just went away quietly. And um ah Eric Weinstein, his...
01:07:44
Speaker
The line of thought is that maybe string theory was introduced into the scientific lexicon to kind of ah turn people away from that, create a whole new science in string theory that is ah super intense and works well mathematically, but has very little real world application. So strength theory is like, it's, it's basically like so the math Olympics. So like people do high mathematics, but it's not applicable to the real world. So Eric Weinstein talks about that being created to divert the scientific community from looking into this
01:08:29
Speaker
crazy anti-grav stuff that would just blow the top off of of all of our technology in a matter of you know years.
01:08:41
Speaker
So it could be that that there is literally, I would bet on it that there is a classified science, a whole science that exists that is so deeply classified that you can't touch it. And if you do touch it, you're going to have people banging at your door to take your device or buy it from you and keep you quiet.
01:09:06
Speaker
Steven Greer made a whole documentary about it. I haven't seen it, but um he made a documentary about that. so um It's something called like The Lost Century, and it's about these guys who are making this like free energy technology and how the government intervenes every time. and Some of these people make this stuff and end up dead. Others get paid off millions of dollars for their patents, and then this stuff gets buried away in the government.
01:09:34
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, they always say that the government's technology is 20 years ahead of, you know, what we have access to, but I think it's more like thousands or millions, especially because I see that trajectory as only increasing with time.
01:09:50
Speaker
Um, I don't see them continuing to only be 20 years ahead. I'm sure maybe in the fifties or in the forties or something, they were 20 years ahead. But it seems like with each decade, they become more and more like, you know what I mean? That, that curve is just exponentially growing. It's not staying the same. Exactly. You have to think it's exponential. I mean you got to think about the AI that we have right now. um You got to imagine the military has had crazy AI for decades now. They must have had like wild AI and then they they throw some you know primitive stuff out there to the public for us to play with and it's like blowing our minds.
01:10:26
Speaker
But I think you're right in the sense that the military tech is at least, I would say, at least 100 years ahead, possibly more. um these Whatever these black projects are that are like so classified, we will never know about them. um The tech that they have to be developing is is intense. which that' why i am Part of me believes that we might have anti-gravity.
01:10:55
Speaker
and you know we We haven't talked about this, but you know is it possible that we have some type of time travel machines? It sounds like crazy, but we are um it could be possible. that it it if Have you heard of the glocka? It's the Nazi bell.
01:11:15
Speaker
It's like, um well, back in the 40s, there were the ah the wonder weapons, the Nazis' wonder weapons, where they were developing all of this crazy, weird technology. like They built like a UFO too.
01:11:29
Speaker
um They built a bunch of crazy stuff. I mean, we have all their scientists. That's how we got all our good stuff. But they were building a lot of wild stuff. And one thing that they supposedly built was Die Glocke, which was it's the Nazi bell. And it basically looked like the shape of a bell or like an acorn. And supposedly this thing um was essentially a time machine. Like one of its effects you get in it and there was like some time dilation effect where you'd step out into like the future or past or whatever. I don't know exactly how it would have worked, but it's, you know, supposedly they were working on this all those decades ago. I mean, maybe there's a chance that something like that could be possible. And if it is possible, that means that, you know, once it's created, you're able to access any point in time. So that just,
01:12:24
Speaker
blows reality apart at that point. If somebody has, you know, whether here or on a different planet, if you have a time machine, I mean, the possibilities are endless. um Like I mentioned to you the other day, like What if a lot of these ancient ruins that we we are looking at, like the pyramids, like how did they do this? like well What if we're looking at our future if some time travelers went to the deep past to like create a civilization so they wouldn't affect the timeline, like isolate themselves so deep in the past, and then create a civilization?
01:13:00
Speaker
You know, who, who knows? I mean, if time travel is possible, like let's go. What what look what else could be possible? It's crazy. Yeah. and And if you take serious, some of the mythic legends that talk about beings coming from the sea or coming from the sky and imparting knowledge and technology among the citizens of these civilizations, like that could very well be a possibility. Yeah. Um,
01:13:30
Speaker
Have you heard of, ah I mean, it this is kind of out of nowhere, but I just thought of it and it's kind of funny. You've heard of, I'm sure you've heard the theory that the moon is an alien base.
01:13:45
Speaker
You've heard this before, it's artificial or you know and it's hollow and there's aliens in there or whatever. Well, I heard a theory that is like, yeah I don't know if it could ever be true, but I find it super fascinating that not only is the moon like a base or something akin to like a big station for ah ah higher entities, that it's actually a a terraforming device that the moon was placed there to like, all right, let's just hear me out for a second. Let's say that ah we were created through genetic engineering. There are some higher beings or maybe future humans or just whatever. There are something above us.
01:14:35
Speaker
and they created us through genetic engineering or whatever, um that the moon was not only ah a base or a ship of theirs, but it was actually placed there strategically to terraform the Earth. I'm not saying I believe this, but it is insane how the moon is the perfect size. like Everything about it is absolutely perfect.
01:15:01
Speaker
in order to allow Earth to excel or to just bring life to Earth and it creates a stable environment. If not for the moon, the Earth would be totally unstable. So the idea is that it was actually placed there in order to terraform the planet to allow life to begin. Pretty cool theory, I don't know.
01:15:23
Speaker
Well, I mean, you can extrapolate that to the whole solar system, to the whole galaxy, yeah because if everything wasn't placed exactly as it is in the solar system, we also wouldn't be here. I mean, of course that puts us as the center of the of the universe. You know, we think we're so ultra important, but it, I mean, we are the only planet that.
01:15:42
Speaker
seems to be, uh, really beautiful and can sustain life. But it's interesting, you know, everything in space seems to have a function, everything in the solar system, everything outside of that seems to be perfectly placed to serve its proper function so that everything can work according to whatever process is, is in place. And, you know, I often think about space in that way as like, what is the purpose of what's going on up there? Because.
01:16:11
Speaker
There doesn't have to be a purpose as in like, what's the meaning of life, man? But like a function as in a function. Yeah. Function I think is is is a very good way to put it. Like what is going on up there and why is it happening? Because there's there's a system in place and it's a perfectly working system that is repeatable among, you know, billions of stars and billions of solar systems and galaxies.
01:16:36
Speaker
and I think like wherever we look, you point to any celestial body, any planet, anything, like all you're going to find is perfection. like it's I think um intelligence is inherent to reality. I think intelligence is like um primary.
01:16:58
Speaker
in reality. So like I think anywhere you look and investigate, you're going to find that it's perfectly set and to allow perfect harmony. and even you know you look at it the ah there People could rebuttal and say, like well, there's so much chaos if you look and there's stars exploding and everything, but it's still happening in a perfect way.
01:17:20
Speaker
So I think anything we investigate, well that's why you could look at, you know you could spend your whole life studying a bird, one species of bird, and just blow your mind for your whole life just by investigating one thing. I think anything you look into, it's just going you're going to find perfect intelligence and harmony. um I think that's why...
01:17:42
Speaker
It's easy for people to believe in a creator. I mean, it's also easy to be an atheist. I get that too. But like for religious people. um and you When you look around and really think about it, it's easy to say, like, oh, well, there's clearly a creator to this. It's all perfect. it's all and you know It seems intelligently created. um I don't believe in a creator in that sense, like the Christian God type creator, but um you can't den den deny its intelligence. i mean it's
01:18:15
Speaker
There's no denying it. That's why i as I grow and learn more and just like investigate, I find atheism to be more and more absurd. Yeah, I totally agree. I agree 100%. That being said, let me just quick caveat that. not that i say I also kind of find the idea of a God like a deity also absurd. um So it's I'm not saying that, you know, I think there's some deity that is You know, created all this either. Yeah. That's sort of the problem with saying you're not an atheist is that people automatically think that you're a Christian because that's what our, our path to spirituality in the Western world is through Christianity. So we kind of paint Christianity on all types. It's either you're a Christian or you're just one of those crazy Buddhist people. Right.
01:19:07
Speaker
Yeah, i mean I mean, I would say I'm closer to the crazy Buddhist people, but yeah buddhist see, that's the thing. I do believe that there is a God, but I think that it isn't a deity.
01:19:22
Speaker
I think that that it's possible um that maybe even with the, like go back to the aliens and UFOs, that we are dealing with, if these are beings, higher beings, that we could be dealing with gods, quote unquote, like lowercase G gods, maybe um that were written about in certain religious texts or, you know, ancient cultures, there're there could be gods in that sense.
01:19:48
Speaker
higher beings that seem God-like because they are so above us. But when we're talking about capital G, God, um I would say that it's not a entity. It's just being itself. Consciousness, basically. Yeah. I totally agree. Conscious intelligence being, yeah. Yeah. People want to personify it, which I get. I mean, it makes it a lot easier. If you can just imagine that there's something like you, you know.
01:20:18
Speaker
Well, we do the same thing. We, we project ourselves onto, you know, UFOs and aliens as well. You know, we, we think that there's ah a guy that looks like us that's in a graph that looks like a plane, but it looks a little different. Just like the guy inside looks a little different. Eyes are a bit bigger, yeah but essentially the same type of thing just does it better. And to me, that's a very short sighted way of thinking about anything.
01:20:41
Speaker
But you know the thing with the the UFO thing is so difficult because kind of as we've illustrated here, like it could be many things. There could be a lot of different things happening. ah You could go down the many different pathways, but there is one specific pathway that is there are craft that beings come out of.
01:21:08
Speaker
that have like you know that look like your standard gray alien. There are so many cases of people experiencing that. like There is an absolute reality to that phenomenon, which is mind-blowing.
01:21:23
Speaker
i mean people I just couldn't imagine being face-to-face with a gray alien. there's um I found this kind of interesting. There's like a phenomenon, I don't know what it's called, but it's real, where um you ever like go to the eye doctor and they do put eye drops in your eyes or whatever and you your pupils dilate and get real big? Well, there's like a phenomenon, and I find it to be true myself, where it's hard to look at somebody
01:21:53
Speaker
when their pupils are real dilated like that and big and you look into your their eyes, you're like, ah, cover them up. like It looks weird. It's ah like uncanny. It's unsettling. Just to look at a human being with dilated pupils. So like you I extrapolate that in my mind to like,
01:22:10
Speaker
looking at an alien with like those big black eyes, I guarantee you it would be extremely hard to look into their eyes. I think just to look into their eyes would be so intense that you could barely do it. I could imagine that.
01:22:29
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's also super intense to look at, you know, again, like I think about that dream to be in the presence of something that is so foreign, I think is you'd have the same type of feeling.
01:22:42
Speaker
Yeah, and you don't know what to do with it. I mean, like specifically with what your dream was and the whole ah question of if a craft or a UFO could be a life form. I mean, you're looking at the thing and you got to you're trying to place it in so many boxes. Like, okay, is it technology or is it is it alive? What is it? I mean, we have to put it somewhere when it might exist outside of all those boxes.
01:23:09
Speaker
um Like Elizondo said, our definition of life is always changing. So we might what we're looking at might not fit into any of our modern boxes. what we consider That's why I think it is intelligent to do what John Mack was doing at the end of his life was to go to the damn jungle and get a totally outside perspective on some of this stuff and talk to shamans and talk to tribes people and get their perspective because it is totally it's invaluable like a perspective like that is it's dying first off we need to hold on to that we need to respect these people and try to get some of their knowledge because
01:23:55
Speaker
I mean, that perspective is going to die off if things keep going as they are. And we're only going to be left with what we have as, you know, thinking in materialist, physicalist, scientific type of ah way, which is, you know, good for many things, but it doesn't mean that a phenomenon like UFOs is going to fit into that properly. We might need a different set of tools to even begin to understand this.
01:24:25
Speaker
Yeah, I absolutely agree. It's so important to think outside of the box to open your mind up to different possibilities. And as you said, like going into the jungle, listening to perspectives that you would never normally entertain. So we do here on the podcast.