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20. A Higher Intelligence Engaging With Humanity image

20. A Higher Intelligence Engaging With Humanity

Pursuit Of Infinity
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In this week's episode we discuss the legitimacy of past life experiences and out of body phenomenon, along with how we interpret people who describe their personal extraordinary experiences of the kind. We also begin to dive into the subject of UAPs and what may or may not be interacting with humanity, and whether or not our government has information its slowly trickling out, and just how much they may or may not know. It was a conversation that spanned across multiple topics, and we will most likely have a continuation of some of this stuff in our next discussion. 

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Music By Nathan Willis RIP

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Transcript

Introduction and Episode Overview

00:00:00
Speaker
Hello and welcome to Pursuit of Infinity. In today's episode, Joe and I discuss the legitimacy of past life experiences and out-of-body phenomenon, along with how we interpret people who describe their personal extraordinary experiences of the kind. We also begin to dive into the subject of UAPs and what may or may not be interacting with humanity.
00:00:23
Speaker
And whether or not our government has information that it's slowly trickling out and just how much they may or may not know on the subject. It was a conversation that spanned across multiple topics and we will most likely have a continuation of some of this stuff in our next discussion. But before we get to it.
00:00:42
Speaker
If you like what we do, we'd really appreciate if you support the show by subscribing and leaving a five star review on your platform of choice. And if you're feeling extra altruistic, you can become a patron at patreon.com slash pursuit of infinity. We're also on Instagram. So give us a follow there and reach out to us at pursuit of infinity pod.
00:01:02
Speaker
YouTube is almost ready, so bear with us and please stay tuned. Without further delay, thank you so much for listening and I hope you enjoy today's episode.

Narcissism and Social Media Influence

00:01:37
Speaker
Yeah, narcissism is not just...
00:01:41
Speaker
a description of your actions. It's an actual like diagnosis, right? Yeah. I think that probably everybody has a bit of that though. I mean, you think you got to be self-aware to realize it in yourself. A lot of people see it in others and then they don't realize it in myself. Like I've noticed myself having narcissistic tendencies, but not like a, you know, full blown narcissistic person, but you could, I think everybody has some of it, you know,
00:02:10
Speaker
And with the new age of social media and the fact that we all have this, this voice that we never had before, I think people feel like it's their duty to pick a side and it's their duty to defend their thoughts as if there's some kind of like omniscient being. Yeah. I mean, and yeah, with social media, it almost like rewards those behaviors, you know, cause like puts you in like a lot of times you get caught in like an echo chamber and
00:02:40
Speaker
they get the more it's like even in culture like narcissism is kind of like rewarded I mean if you look at people or
00:02:49
Speaker
Like, hip-hop culture is kind of narcissistic if you think about it. Like, you know, look at my chain, I'm the best, this and that. Like, huge inflated ego. Best rapper alive type of thing. Like, so how many people have you heard say, I'm the best rapper alive? It's a part of, like, rap music. You have to call yourself the best or you didn't make a rap song.
00:03:10
Speaker
And that goes with sports. It goes with any competition really. I think it's inherent in our culture too, to be so competitive.

Power of Manifestation and Belief

00:03:18
Speaker
And that also kind of goes along the lines of like manifesting and how people get really caught in positive thought. And they think that like, as long as you think positively, you think confidently that like whatever you're thinking is going to happen.
00:03:32
Speaker
Yeah, I mean the reason it's a problem and that's with like most things too is like because there is some truth to it. But it's a lot of times it's the way that this manifestation is like it's being.
00:03:46
Speaker
Showed to people like how to do it. Like they, like you can just manifest something, make like a, what do they call those boards? Like a vision board or something? Like a vision board. Yeah. Like as long as you think about it and you'll end up getting it. But the, the key is you have, you do manifest things. You have to be determined and visualize like you getting those successes.
00:04:07
Speaker
But the key is the work in between, you know, it's not the manifesting isn't where the results come from. The manifesting is what begins the work that the results come from. You're so, so right. And like you said, it's like the manifesting part, it's just a small piece of it.
00:04:25
Speaker
And there's so much more in the, you know, there's more that you can look into more than you can study. There are more ways that you can train your mind to like positively manifest things in your life. But it's not as if it's some sort of magic. Like if I, if I think that I'm going to become an Olympic runner, like I'm not going to become an Olympic runner at my age and like what I do, you know, like there's certain things that you, you, you can't do. And of course, like people would say, well, you know, that's not what,
00:04:55
Speaker
you know, the manifesting doctrine is about. It's not telling you that you can do like ungodly, you know, things or, or godly divine things by just thinking about it. Which is why I think like, yeah, these people are correct in a way, like you said, like they're, they're getting a piece of it. But it's all in the work. It's what follows the positive thought. But yeah, but like I was saying, it is important still, because
00:05:22
Speaker
First, in order to achieve anything, you have to believe that you can do it first. Because it is true that there is such a thing as a self-fulfilling prophecy.
00:05:34
Speaker
You have to have faith, like blind faith in a sense of things that are impossible. Like I like the story of the Wright brothers. So this is how a lake faith can work in like even a scientific manner or something. See at the time, human beings could not fly. That was a fact. We can't fly. We're not going to be able to, but they had faith. They had to believe that you could first. So they put their faith in a belief that no human beings can fly.
00:06:01
Speaker
If nobody had that belief or manifested that idea into reality, it never would have happened. So if everybody walked around the world saying, no, we can't fly, we would have never created airplanes. So I think that's a good example of believing in something impossible per se that maybe isn't, but the belief comes first and then it's possible to actually do some of these things. Like I talked about this before.
00:06:29
Speaker
Like I asked you on time if, do you believe that it's possible to know everything, meaning everything, like not every trivial fact, but everything as in like, who am I? What is reality? That type, like the big questions, is it even possible to know?
00:06:46
Speaker
And if you say it's not possible, then it's not possible. That's a self-fulfilling prophecy. But if you believe it is, and this is like kind of manifesting, I guess, but if you believe that it is, then at least it gives you the ability to start the work to get to that place.

Truth and Mythological Lessons: Are They Real?

00:07:02
Speaker
But that's why.
00:07:05
Speaker
For most of my life, I believed that you couldn't know those things. In that belief, I never tried. If I walked around thinking it's impossible to know what reality is or all these big questions, if I think it's impossible, then I'll never even attempt to learn it.
00:07:25
Speaker
to understand it. And then since changing that belief, I've learned more about myself and more abstract ideas and just a whole different view of reality itself based off of just a belief that I can figure out things about myself and reality itself that I thought were impossible. And there's a difference between
00:07:51
Speaker
intellectually believing something and acting as if something is real. Like Jordan Peterson talks about this in terms of Christianity and the Bible. You know, he'll claim like the Bible itself, some of the
00:08:06
Speaker
more preposterous things that it might say may not be like intellectually, he may not believe those things. But if say he does believe certain parts of the Bible, or he acts as if some of these like core doctrines and like core lessons are real, then it may lead to prosperity and progress. And if it does, that's like its own type of truth.
00:08:32
Speaker
Right. Yeah. Like the, you know, the Sam Harris. Exactly. Pearson argument over truth. Like, yeah, there are, there's really two meanings to it. Like you could say like a fact, like any thing that's, you know, you could read as a fact, but I can talk about that too. But then like, I think the example uses like the arrow flies true, like straight and true. Like, so that's something that's just a different meaning of truth, I guess. And it's a problem with language is that we want to say that,
00:09:00
Speaker
truth that the definition that may be in the dictionary applies to all types of things that are real and truth
00:09:08
Speaker
And real are two different things as well. Yeah. Yeah.

Dreams, Lucid Dreaming, and Reality

00:09:13
Speaker
Real is a tricky word too. I was having a conversation with somebody in a group online. They asked the question of like, what if dreams are real and the reality isn't or something, something along those lines. And then it made me think like.
00:09:31
Speaker
Well, why are you assuming that dreams aren't real? What does real actually mean? Because going through what I've been working on with lucid dreaming and things of that nature, I've come to put a lot more stake in my dreams and kind of look at them as real, try to act better in them and do things in a different manner.
00:09:54
Speaker
I had a lucid dream a couple nights ago and it was unbelievably real. It was so real that I stopped and I was just looking at a wall. It was kind of like a cave wall. I was looking at it and I was like, this is so real. I'm aware I'm dreaming. It was real as you could look at close at it, every little detail and touch it.
00:10:17
Speaker
And I'm touching it and feeling it. It feels just like I would touch something now. And then it being a lucid dream, I told myself I'm going to put my hand through it. And I could, and then I put my hands into this wall.
00:10:30
Speaker
and started splashing it like water. It was solid and liquid at the same time. So it was like splashing up and then it would land and it was back solid. And I was like playing with it and it was really crazy. But the point is to me, that experience is real. That's a real experience I had. Just because it can't be replicated or I can't prove it to somebody, it doesn't make it unreal. And a lot of people believe or they act as if something has to be provable to be true.
00:11:00
Speaker
And that's where I like to say that truth precedes proof. Something can be true and unprovable or something can be true and unproven. For instance, if you're telling the truth to somebody or if you're lying to somebody, you can't prove it, but you know which one is true, things of that nature. And especially when you're talking about spiritual stuff, none of it is provable. And that's why I tell everyone, you can't give somebody the answer. Truth cannot be spoken.
00:11:31
Speaker
The good thing is that you can find all the answers you want yourself from within, but you can't prove it to anybody else

Psychedelics and the Nature of Reality

00:11:38
Speaker
or tell it to them. You can point them in the right direction. That's about it. Yeah. It's the same with a psychedelic experience too. You know, a lot of people describe their experiences on psychedelics as realer than real. And I mean, you can't validate that with language or with any kind of like normal precedence of fact, but
00:12:01
Speaker
It is, is it? And if you have that experience, and it's not just if you have an experience with psychedelics, certain meditative experiences and things like that will give you the same more real than real feeling. It's like you're, you're puncturing into like a base level foundational reality that lies beyond what
00:12:25
Speaker
the physical world can show us. Yeah, I agree. Because there's like states of consciousness and like, like you said, realer than real. It's like
00:12:34
Speaker
Like when, like in a DMT experience, like you, sometimes you can like become something beyond a human, like something beyond your five senses. I think that's what people mean when they say realer than real for these type of experiences is because you're experiencing something that is impossible in, you know, your normal waking consciousness of being a human being.
00:12:59
Speaker
It's impossible, but it's possible because it's happening to you right then and there. It's just beyond the limitations of your human consciousness, your five senses. And it's, uh, realer than real is definitely real. And another detail of the realer than real experience is when you go into, especially like a DMT or a, or a mushroom experience or something like that.
00:13:23
Speaker
The thing that really makes it feel realer than real is there's structure there. Like there is something there that follows some kind of rules or laws lower. Like it feels like the same sort of structure that our reality has. It's just vastly different. And it seems that there, it takes different types of perceptive senses to
00:13:48
Speaker
be able to perceive it. But I think that the structural nature of the places you go on psychedelics really add to the realer than real feeling of them.
00:13:58
Speaker
Oh yeah, I definitely agree. And like the same can be said like in a dream. I've noticed that like different dreams have different laws. It's like in each dream, you're in a different reality that allows different things to happen. And then if you become lucid enough, then you can do, you can kind of create those laws yourself. But in each dream, like it's not, everything isn't as coherent and
00:14:26
Speaker
It's not

Past Lives and Reality Perception

00:14:27
Speaker
all as set as things are here and waking reality, but I've heard this notion. I don't know if I necessarily believe it or not, but if you think of reality as being like a more of a dream.
00:14:43
Speaker
And I've heard this as like kind of a theory that we are all creating reality through our consciousness. Like it's a collective dream. So that's why we can't become lucid and change things because we all together agree what the laws are. Whereas your own dream at night, you're the only one creating that reality, your individual consciousness. And then that allows you, that's why you can become lucid and change fundamental laws. Like I said, like you can.
00:15:13
Speaker
turn solid into water and put your hands through it but you can't do that in this reality because all of us are agreeing together whether we like it or not or whether we realize it we're agreeing on what the laws are and It's interesting because if you think about it that way that kind of means if you can convince the whole population to truly believe in something impossible that it could manifest into like a reality so like
00:15:42
Speaker
I heard somebody talk about, I think it was Paul Chek. I'm not going to say it as well as he did, but he was talking about how we kind of manifested something like COVID. Like basically what he was getting at is if enough people think something is real and we spend enough resources investigating it and trying to find it, that you will
00:16:03
Speaker
end up creating it. Like, let's say initially, I'm just using COVID because it's something recent we can all look at. You can create a problem if enough people truly believe it. And if you put enough resources into that thing, like you can create enough tests to find something that wasn't there before. So maybe it was something that's always been there and now you've just created a test to find it. If you put enough of
00:16:29
Speaker
Collective consciousness into something and enough resources into that thing that you'll end up creating it in a sense Maybe that's what evolution is the collective agreement that we all with our perceptions move into a new sensory reality or a new sensory system of
00:16:52
Speaker
in taking information through our senses and then like regurgitating it into what we can describe as real. So maybe like after a certain period of time, maybe that could just be like a mutation in the brain too, like a mutation within our senses that could just slightly tweak something as a result of our growth that allows us to collectively at the same time perceive reality in a way
00:17:15
Speaker
where we kind of move towards something together. Also, what could go along with this is what was that guy's name on Aubrey Marcus's podcast, the one that recalls his past lives on the Stefano? Yes, to Stefano. I forget his first name. What the hell was his first? I forget. But he this man is he's on Aubrey Marcus podcast a couple of times and he
00:17:38
Speaker
Has memories of his past lives, like multiple past lives, and he had was kind of born with a gift of like a higher consciousness, I guess you'd say. But he talks about and he remembers his life in like Atlantean times like 10,000, 12,000 years ago where they had a different they lived in a different reality.
00:17:59
Speaker
because they had different collective beliefs. So basically what he said, he talks about how the pyramids were built, that they were connected. They looked at, as today we look at technology as things we can create and use like material, they thought of their body as their technology. So what they did as a culture was master their bodies and themselves, they were the technology.
00:18:23
Speaker
and in what basically he said and it's weird because other people have theorized that this is how the pyramids were made that somehow they were moving those stones with some kind of sound or acoustics and what he said is basically that like somehow maybe because the whole collective believed in this reality it allowed it to happen that they were able to move these giant stone stones through certain sound frequencies and each person
00:18:52
Speaker
mastered their body went to like their whole school was different it was about mastering the body and they could basically form a connection with a certain element like fire water earth and air or something like that so each person like if you were mastered earth you'd be able to use these frequencies and move the earth different stuff like that but he was basically kind of going along the same lines of what I'm talking about is
00:19:20
Speaker
maybe 10, maybe 12,000 years ago, people had a different collective consciousness of what is possible in reality, which allowed them to do things that we can't do because our reality doesn't allow it based on our belief in consciousness. The thing about him too is on a surface level,
00:19:44
Speaker
A lot of the stuff he says, like this is, this kind of goes back to truth and like believing something as fact or acting as if it's true. A lot of the stuff he says, like if somebody just wrote down on paper, like a question based off of a fact that he said and said like.
00:20:05
Speaker
Did this man come from Atlantis and can he remember past lives?

Experiential Truth vs. Intellectual Belief

00:20:10
Speaker
I would probably say like intellectually, no, I don't believe that. But what I can say is that the way that he expresses wisdom is so profound and it resonates so deeply with what
00:20:25
Speaker
I've experienced and what I've seen that it doesn't validate the facts that he can experience past lives, but it makes his argument worth listening to and worth taking in so that you can find a little tidbits of information that you resonate with. And that can help you progress the same way that Jordan Peterson would say you can take certain parts of the Bible.
00:20:50
Speaker
and certain parts of mythology and things like that and use them in your life as like a, uh, like a practical truth as opposed to an intellectual truth. Well, so do you believe that he is lying about the past lives thing? No, because whether or not somebody's lying about something doesn't make what they're saying true or false, but so I think it's important to recognize that. So, um, so you don't believe he's lying.
00:21:21
Speaker
So do you think that he actually experienced those things? Probably, yes. Again, I don't think that necessarily he's lying because I don't think his motivations are to deceive in order to achieve some sort of self-gain.
00:21:40
Speaker
And the reason I say that is because when you, when you look at somebody, when they're speaking to you, you can normally tell if they're lying, if they're bullshitting you in a way that you can clearly see that they're trying to gain something from it. And you could definitely make an argument that this guy is trying to gain something because all of a sudden he, he came from the obscure Gaia network.
00:22:04
Speaker
And Aubrey Marcus found him and now he's massive because he's been on Aubrey's podcast a bunch of times. So you could make the argument that.
00:22:13
Speaker
Like, yeah, this guy is bullshitting everybody in order to bolster his own reputation and gain something from it. But when I, when I listened to that guy talk, the wisdom that he has for such a young age, that's what I really pay attention to. I could give a shit less if he remembers some Atlantean song or something, you know? Honestly, like if I'm being completely honest, like I don't buy into like,
00:22:40
Speaker
the one podcast that they did where he started off like singing some sort of like song that he learned from his past life in Atlantis. Like, okay, maybe I do believe that he's not lying and that he experienced whatever he experienced.
00:22:57
Speaker
So that's where I'm getting. So if, for him, say if he experienced it and he's telling the truth, he's not lying. So that's where I'm there. I'm seeing the disconnect and why like, if you don't believe it, but he experienced it, if you think he, like, why wouldn't you believe it? If you think he experienced it.
00:23:16
Speaker
Because I think experiential truth is potentially different than intellectual truth. And in order to intellectually believe something, it's similar to like the ghost phenomenon, like a paranormal phenomenon. You have to experience a paranormal phenomenon to believe it because it's so outside of the realm of evidence that we normally see things as truth. So.
00:23:39
Speaker
Experientially, you'd have to have an encounter with a ghost to truly believe that this type of thing is

Consciousness Beyond Human Senses

00:23:45
Speaker
real. And that's how I look at like psychedelic experiences. It's how I look at people like this Stefano. Um, I feel like they're not lying. They probably experienced it in some way.
00:23:59
Speaker
But I'm, there's two things that I'm not going to do. I'm not going to take what this person says as a, as a literal intellectual fact. And I'm also not going to pathologize their experience as insanity or something else, or even lying. I'm just going to, I'd like to take information where I can get it.
00:24:19
Speaker
And if it resonates with me and if it furthers my journey and it resonates with my heart, then I'm going to take it for that and use it to whatever means I feel necessary, you know? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I believe that people can experience those things, but I don't know if it.
00:24:39
Speaker
If it connects to an objective truth or whatever you'd like to call it or like an intellectual truth, I don't know. But I do have a belief that people can experience things that can't be proven and that are impossible. That aren't impossible, but we believe to be impossible.
00:25:00
Speaker
And like you were saying, basically, if you can bring truth out of it, like an absolute truth, like things that you can resonate with, like deeply, then I think it validates the experience as a true experience. I don't, like there's different ways to look at it, I guess you'd say. Like, as you put it, an intellect, intellectual truth, that would be something that you have to, that has to be proven to you, I guess. Yeah. But I think it's a bit beyond that. I mean,
00:25:29
Speaker
I don't know with him personally, I don't know what he's experienced, but he definitely has an ability if you ask me to, you know, work with his consciousness in a way that most people have to work very hard to get to. Like, and one of the reasons I believe that he experiences other lives, like not saying that, that those are true or whatever, like the same way you experience a different life in a dream.
00:25:57
Speaker
Like it's not going to be provable, but you can experience it. Like I once had a dream where I was a different person and it was strange. Like I woke up and I was like, what was that? Like I was like some guy, like just like on a farm with like a family. And so I, I'm not going to say that was true. And that was my past life, but I did experience like, uh, me in a different body or something. So I didn't gain any deep truth from it. It was just, I woke up and it was really strange, but.
00:26:26
Speaker
I think that people do have the ability to do that. And then especially if you look at the fact that time isn't what we really think it is, that you can kind of say that based off of what we were talking about last week a little bit with Donald Hoffman,

Mystical Experiences and Government Knowledge

00:26:45
Speaker
saying that space-time isn't fundamental, consciousness is, that would allow for consciousness to, like, it means you could experience all time at once. And that would be that, like, the idea is that time isn't linear, which that's basically proven through quantum mechanics, that time isn't linear. They've showed particles time traveling, basically. So we know that time isn't linear. And then you can start to rationalize how
00:27:15
Speaker
It might be possible to experience a whole different time and have it be, I guess you could say true. I don't know. But that's the way I look at it because time is funny. So I think it is possible. And then if you look at it as we are all ultimately one consciousness, like split into different perspectives.
00:27:39
Speaker
That would mean that you, like capital YU, can experience the consciousness of any living thing or unliving event.
00:27:48
Speaker
Aubrey Marcus again, I'll go to him. He talked about a sober experience he had. He was laying in between his two girlfriends who were both on a high dose of mushrooms. Like, so they were both like tripping intensely. And he, that was his night off. Like he was being sober that night. So he was sober, laying in between them. And then he had like a.
00:28:09
Speaker
of like a fourth, fifth dimensional experience however you'd like to describe it, where he got into a state of mind that's kind of like a lucid dream where he could manifest objects and beings and stuff right in front of him. So like he was laying there soberly but in a different state of consciousness where he could think of like a waterfall and then a waterfall would appear and like he could basically he was still his body like kind of think of it like a lucid dream. So then he talked about he went further
00:28:40
Speaker
And he experienced the consciousness of a bumblebee, where he was experiencing what it felt like to be a bee. And all he said he could feel was the queen bee behind him. And it was in his mind, serve the queen, serve the queen. And through an experience, he had the consciousness of a bee for a short period of time. So this goes to the idea that
00:29:09
Speaker
as a single consciousness divided, you can kind of experience all consciousnesses or individual consciousnesses or however you want to word that, but you can experience other things like even in reading Robert Monroe, he was the guy who coined the term OBE, out of body experiences, basically astral travel.
00:29:33
Speaker
He writes about he was able to experience different animals like the consciousness of a big cat. He was able to even experience a plant absorbing sunlight and like doing photosynthesis. So he talks about being able to do that stuff and.
00:29:52
Speaker
I don't know. I think that stuff is possible. It just seems completely outlandish because it doesn't fit our culture and the way we look at reality at all. We look at everything through a physicalist lens, like a materialism lens that says that everything is physical. Time space is fundamental. Space time is fundamental.
00:30:14
Speaker
And we are so ingrained into that that anything other than that sounds completely out of possibility of being real or true. It reminds me also of near-death experiences, which is super interesting because
00:30:30
Speaker
Soon I'm going to be talking to Kyle Buller of psychedelics today and he started his path. Well, he would probably say he started it earlier, but one of the big giant kickstarters for him was he had a really intense near death experience as a result of a snowboarding accident. Near death experiences are another form of this where it feels realer than real. It feels like you're quote unquote going home. It's comforting. It's beautiful.
00:31:00
Speaker
And who's to say that that's not a real experience. You know, it goes beyond what intellectually we can grasp as evidential fact. So it's another one of these circumstances where you're looking at a mystical type experience and you're trying to label it in the same way as.
00:31:23
Speaker
uh, rocks are hard and trees are wood and, you know, grass is green. Like, you know, we, these are just descriptions. Right. And yeah, I'm glad that you brought up the near death experiences because there's actually, there's a good show on Netflix. It's called surviving death. And there's like a couple episodes, but it's all about this. Like they talk to people who had near death experiences and it's super interesting, but, um, there's like, it seems to be, when you hear the accounts of people who had near death experiences, there's like,
00:31:53
Speaker
There's so many similarities, but there's like kind of two different ones I've noticed where it seems like some near-death experiences are kind of how you just described it where it's almost like just like a DMT experience that you are experiencing like a feeling of going home and like oneness and like comfortable familiarity, something like that.
00:32:16
Speaker
which is kind of how I felt like on certain, sometimes on DMT. But also a lot of people experience an out of body experience, which is like exactly what you are fully capable of doing without dying. So a lot of people who have a near death experience find themselves floating outside of their body, like looking down at the scene that just happened. And that's the same thing as actual travel or out of body experiences. They're both the same thing. Monroe just calls them OBEs because
00:32:45
Speaker
He didn't want mysticism attached to it. He wanted to approach it scientifically. So he called him OBEs, but like he started one night, he just found himself floating above his body in bed. And then he ended up learning and like studying, trying to figure it out and mastering it. But the out of body experience is exactly what people describe in near death experiences. It's like the same thing. It's just, it's pretty crazy.
00:33:11
Speaker
And there are lots of parallels with other mystical type experiences, which makes me believe that whatever structure that we were talking about earlier, that is behind the psychedelic experience, it has other avenues, other ways of getting to it. And it, to me, that.
00:33:29
Speaker
And this is almost scientific when you can have two different, very different types of experiences brought on by two different stimuli, whether it be almost dying, having a lucid dream, taking a psychedelic, when those things communicate with each other and validate one another, there's something to that. And I think scientifically as intellectuals, you know, our scientists should be looking at these things.
00:33:57
Speaker
Yeah, it's pretty wild that they don't. There are some like on the fringe and it makes me think about, you know, these questions are so you don't have to be some type of super genius to start asking them. And then if people like you and I can realize that there are some kind of answers and experiences you can have to get maybe answers or understand things a different way.
00:34:22
Speaker
I kind of understand why the scientific community hasn't dove into it because a lot of them are, you know, it's just a fact that they're dogmatic in a sense and stuck in one worldview and then excelling at that, which there's nothing wrong with that. I mean, it brings us all the beautiful technology and knowledge that we have, but there's something further

Government Secrecy and UFO Information

00:34:40
Speaker
than that. And you can see certain scientists, small groups of them starting to investigate those things. But it makes me question even more
00:34:49
Speaker
that the government doesn't have crazy scientists or black projects where they're investigating this type of stuff.
00:34:58
Speaker
I think that they are probably because if we know this, then there are people who have unlimited resources that know this too and can investigate it in a, in a very, you know, serious way. Like I was, I don't want to go too deep into like aliens or anything right now. We could do that on a different episode, but I was telling you the other day about, um, a program called, uh, all SAP that the government had like in the, I think it was like late nineties to early 2000s, like they did for like,
00:35:26
Speaker
around 10 years or something. It was like advanced aerospace weapons systems application program, something like that. I think that's it. They were investigating UFOs and stuff like that they claimed aren't real, but they had a program that was funded by millions of taxpayer dollars to investigate this stuff. One of the things that they investigated was Skimwalker Ranch.
00:35:57
Speaker
The reason that I bring this up is because from what I've heard and what you can look at from all the like FOIAs and Freedom of Information Act, like documents and stuff, that that was the first government program that really started looking into the stuff that we're talking about. So they use like millions of dollars worth of resources, government agents and like top-notch scientists to investigate
00:36:23
Speaker
kind of the paranormal and things that don't seem to fit our idea of reality. So knowing that they did that and knowing that they got results. So that means that there has to be further study going on. That program has ended, but we didn't know that program existed while it existed. So you got to think that there has to be a program right now that is investigating kind of an alternate reality
00:36:48
Speaker
Like something that, you know, the general population doesn't think is possible. Like paranormal. I don't really like that word because everything is paranormal before it becomes normal. Like just because we don't understand it, we call it paranormal. Like germs were paranormal at a certain point. You know, if you, you know, go a couple hundred years ago and tell people that there's tiny little organisms that are going to make you sick and this and that, like that, that was absurd. It was fantasy.
00:37:15
Speaker
So that, germs are paranormal, viruses, paranormal, that type of thing. But it becomes normal when we start to understand it. And I think that there's a lot going on that we just don't understand. That's why I don't scoff at or discredit certain experiences that seem impossible, like stuff like UFOs and all that. I think that there's a lot going on that we just don't understand.
00:37:45
Speaker
That's what it makes me think.
00:37:46
Speaker
You know, we were talking about Donald Hoffman and to me, that's a guy who was on the cutting edge of like the absolute peak of what we can possibly know, understand and experience. But why should a guy who is easily accessible to us who writes books, who goes on podcasts, why should that guy be the pinnacle of our current understanding of what's happening? Like it makes me think that.
00:38:16
Speaker
There are scientists, doctors, researchers that are behind closed doors hired by people who have more power and an influence than us, you know, the same way in which
00:38:30
Speaker
Jeffrey Epstein would target scientists to bring to his island because he was super interested in, you know, furthering our scientific knowledge. So who's to say that there aren't billionaires and government people and individuals who are in a higher level of power than us that have access to
00:38:50
Speaker
these types of, you know, research programs and scientists who are, who do we don't know their names and they are furthering things in a way that we can't even contemplate it. It seems that it's a pretty good possibility. And, you know, you hear people like, I mean, I know it might sound controversial to even bring this dude's name up, but you hear Alex Jones talk about, um,
00:39:13
Speaker
Some of the crazy government programs that they have researching altered states of consciousness and DMT and stuff like that. And, you know, believe me, I'm not like a proponent of everything Alex Jones says, but you see little bits and pieces of it leaking and you see from different sources, little bits and pieces come in, coming into our, our collective. And I mean, who knows really? Yeah. I mean, well, we know that, you know, they.
00:39:38
Speaker
You know, MK ultra, you know, they experimented on people with LSD and whatnot, but we never get the results. Notice that we never really get the conclusions. They just released the actual studies to us after, you know, 50 years or 60 years or so, we never get the results, the conclusions. Yeah. And like you said, like they probably have, you know, people behind closed doors doing that stuff. And now we know as fact that they do because.
00:40:07
Speaker
With all SAP, like I said, that was a program that was doing those things. And like you mentioned, Robert Bigelow, or sorry, you mentioned billionaires, which Robert Bigelow is a billionaire who had like the NIDS program, National Institute of Discovery Science. And he put millions and millions of dollars into this type of research too.
00:40:29
Speaker
And so it's definitely happening and there's a reason why we don't hear about it. I think it's kind of a whole shattering a paradigm that's happening. I mean, we all live in the physicalist paradigm where we believe that reality is a certain way and now people are starting to realize it isn't that way. And I think a lot of people in higher positions know that as well.
00:40:52
Speaker
Partially, that's what's going on with this UAP, UFO topic. So like they just had a congressional hearing a couple of weeks ago and it was first time in 50 years they had a congressional hearing about UFO.
00:41:08
Speaker
It was the first one since Project Blue Book where it was just a disinformation program to discount UFO experiencers and stuff like that. So now this is the first time they've done that. And if you ask me what's happening now, they talk about, is UFO disclosure happening? And I think it's more of a dissemination. They're slowly dripping us information to enter into a new paradigm because the people that
00:41:36
Speaker
Like worked in all SAP and all these different programs who know things that we don't know about the UFO phenomenon.
00:41:44
Speaker
They understand that it's not as simple as, you know, just like aliens and spaceships flying here. There's a lot of stranger things happening with the phenomenon. And I think it ties in to just a whole paradigm shift of us understanding that it's not necessarily like a physical reality, the way we look at it, like a mechanical system.
00:42:07
Speaker
Because Skinwalker Ranch is a good example of this, and it's a place where the government spent millions of dollars and investigated for such a long time. So many different programs have been there. None of the stuff that was learned there is released. It's all hidden away.
00:42:24
Speaker
But there were like UFOs being spotted there. There were like weird beings, like cryptic creatures, like wolves, like giant wolves. Somebody there saw like a dinosaur, like shit like that just doesn't make sense. But credible people.
00:42:39
Speaker
have are seeing these things like very credible people and now they're starting to talk about it a little bit. And I think the reason we have that like UFO congressional hearing is that we're going to start to get like drops of information about a phenomenon happening on our planet that maybe we don't understand, but it's a paradigm shifting event.
00:43:03
Speaker
And it won't happen. Like one day they won't just say, oh, here's all the information. It's going to take years and years of, you know, making movies. And like they use, it's proven too that they use, you know, our popular culture, like films and TV shows to start putting these ideas into our head. So it's interesting, but I would say that.
00:43:25
Speaker
There are definitely people working on this stuff on a high level. And I think that we're starting to learn a little more about it in our culture. And I think we're going to keep getting more information. Now we're having UFO congressional hearings like every 180 days, like every six months, they're going to have a new one. And they're going to start showing you more videos and a little more information.
00:43:48
Speaker
But it's not going to be, you know, anything too groundbreaking at first, because if they would come out and say, yeah, like Bigfoot's real and aliens are here and like people would laugh it off, they wouldn't believe it. It has to be like a slow drop of information each time that is like going to work its way into the collective consciousness. So we can start to understand what this intelligence or intelligences are that are, you know, operating on the planet.

UFOs and Mystical Phenomena

00:44:18
Speaker
And I'm not crazy because I'm telling you like it is known now in the public that the UFO, UAP are real. It's just...
00:44:32
Speaker
that we don't know what they are and that's what's being said. But based off of basically everything I was just saying, I think that we know way more than is being fed to the public. They have like tons of video evidence and radar evidence, stuff like this. So I think we're going to start getting more of that, which is interesting. Now to me in my own little world of confirmation bias, if
00:44:57
Speaker
What they're telling us and if what they show us, like if this is true, what you're saying, and if they do slowly start to roll out these things and we're getting, you know, small little slow drips of information, like a little, you know, Ivy, um, if this doesn't eventually lead to a connection with the shamanic cultures of the world and how they experience entities and travel through different realms and
00:45:28
Speaker
you know, communicate with ancestor spirits as they call them and things like that. It's a lie.
00:45:34
Speaker
If, if they don't relate to that, you know what I mean? Because in my view, and from what I've experienced with psychedelics and with shamanism and studying different spiritual cultures and things like that is what these people are doing is real in the Amazon and in the shamanic cultures, they're, they're using whatever they're finding within these realms to physically and mentally heal people.
00:45:59
Speaker
And to me, these are the most legit practices of like extra dimensional things, um, that have ever been, been shown to us. So in my little, like I said, my little world of confirmation bias, you know, I do believe that the government gives us information that's false in order to make us believe certain things. And it seems plausible that they would lie about
00:46:27
Speaker
The small gyps of information that you're referring to. And the way that I'm going to engage that is how close does it come to shamanic cultures, to what we've experienced with psychedelics and other spiritual traditions? Because, you know, if you follow the money, like you were saying, all the millions of dollars that were put into programs like M like MK ultra, like the research that was done at skinwalker ranch.
00:46:55
Speaker
Um, the remote viewing information, um, and studies that they have found conclusions to these things are another form. Like I was saying earlier, like they sort of validate one another and the way that they validate one another, you know, aside from just being related in general as ideas is.
00:47:15
Speaker
There was a lot of money put into all of these things and we did not get any specifics on the results of them, which is how I think they relate to the UAP and the alien stuff too. I feel like this stuff is all connected in some way, shape or form. And if they don't help us to make that connection, then I'm not sure that they actually have any real information that we don't.
00:47:38
Speaker
Well, I'll say this, like they definitely have tons of information because they're the people with the unlimited resources. So if we know anything, they have the resources to really engage with this phenomenon. But my question being, do these resources, can they get you to the same place that shamanic cultures get with nature?
00:47:59
Speaker
Yeah, guaranteed, but my point I wanted to touch on is like you said, like the drops being false and this and that. Well, we know that for 70 years that they purposefully fed the public disinformation about this topic, so we are conditioned.
00:48:17
Speaker
like purposefully to scoff at the subject and talk about it here. Like it's not a real thing when it's been revealed by whistleblowers and you know, it's, it's just, it's kind of out in the open now. And there's been so many millions of people that have seen these things.
00:48:34
Speaker
that it is a real phenomenon, but we don't just accept it because first of the paradigm we live in doesn't allow for it really. If you're really open-minded, you're going to start to accept some of this stuff a little more, but we have been conditioned to laugh at it and scoff at it.
00:48:57
Speaker
They've also spent millions of dollars doing that, you know, trying to get us to think of it as fantasy.
00:49:04
Speaker
But through, you know, like I said, whistleblowers and things like that, they're starting to be a change. And it wasn't purposeful by the government. The government didn't want to start releasing these documents. It really just happened through the Freedom of Information Act and whistleblowers kind of just saying things. And then that's when they created
00:49:30
Speaker
From OSAP, that program I was talking about, there was like a little program that branched off from that called ATIP and it was like Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program. And they were just, they didn't go into the crazy stuff like Skinwalker Ranch and all the really weird paranormal stuff.
00:49:49
Speaker
This was a smaller program that was just about, uh, tracking UFOs, getting information on them, trying to figure stuff out. So that's where you get all those like videos that the Pentagon was forced to release in this. And the only reason we know about that is because, um, the, one of the guys that led a tip, Lou Elizondo, he was like, um,
00:50:10
Speaker
He was a former counterintelligence guy like top security, all the clearances he had, all that. And they put him in charge of this ATIP program. And he resigned because he was frustrated that he wasn't able to tell the public anything about it. So he wasn't allowed to release any information that he was working on that taxpayers were.
00:50:32
Speaker
You know providing he's kind of like a patriot type like he's one of those guys like he was in the military and this and that so he went rogue basically and he was ahead of that program and he started talking about it and
00:50:45
Speaker
Basically, to make a long story short, through a lot of moving pieces, it forced a hand that the Pentagon had to start making these congressional hearings happen and start alerting Congress on this stuff. Basically, the cat was out of the bag that we've been spending a lot of money investigating this stuff over the last 70 years.
00:51:07
Speaker
So that's why you think they're they're dripping it to us is because they were kind of caught in the act.

Collective Evolution and Information Sharing

00:51:12
Speaker
I think it's it's a I don't think it's like a huge like conspiracy really. I think that it's
00:51:19
Speaker
Yes, that they were caught in the act. There's a small group of people that want to disclose this information and they have all the information. Like they have a lot of info. They don't know everything. I don't believe. I mean, I think that maybe they're very lost on the topic because it's that strange, but.
00:51:38
Speaker
Uh, like Lou Elizondo is a good example. It's just, they forced the hand of the government. That's why when you get these congressional hearings, it's like ridiculous. They're not telling us anything. They're still like denying it a lot. Like they don't want to, you know, talk about this stuff and they don't, you know, but now that Congress has been alerted about it, now they are demanding answers too. So now we have our elected officials and they're really being, uh,
00:52:06
Speaker
being shown videos that aren't classified videos of this stuff. So now they're asking questions and through a long process, I think that we will start getting the information. Not because they want to, but now enough people know, enough people have seen and a lot of people experience stuff that they have to say something. And we know for a fact that they're putting our money into it.
00:52:27
Speaker
So I don't think that they're going to outright say anything big, but I think through time they're going to have to say something. And there's enough people, trustworthy people that do know things and are connected, that are involved, that are trying to get the information out. And with the internet and all the cameras, like it's just too hard to keep something this big under wraps. So I think it's slowly starting to come out.
00:52:55
Speaker
And I've always had questions about the Freedom of Information Act, because this is, this is a rule or a law that was put into place and enforced by a government that is known for its secrets. So how confident can we be?
00:53:16
Speaker
that the Freedom of Information Act is going to give us access to information or like a depth of information that is actually legit. Well, it will give you legit information, but it doesn't mean you can get ahold of all information. So it'll basically get us, like you could get access to things like ATIP and OSAP, like things that were happening.
00:53:42
Speaker
But for instance, you can't do a FOIA on our current weapon systems and stuff like that. There's things that are just way beyond classified. But there is so much information that...
00:53:57
Speaker
There's so much information now it's, it's unbelievable because nobody understood that the internet was coming either. They couldn't grasp how big the internet would be. So now we all have the internet and if you really want to, you can look into a lot of this stuff. And if you actually go into it with an open mind and do your due diligence and researching some of this stuff, it is clear that what's going on. It's, it's absolutely clear that some higher intelligence.
00:54:27
Speaker
is engaging with humanity and it could be a bunch of different phenomenon or it might be one phenomenon that manifests itself in any different way. One theory is that, for instance, you talk about the shamanic stuff or you talk about even religions, the reason that it is
00:54:52
Speaker
showing itself to us as UFOs now is because now in our culture, we connect to technology. It shows itself in a way that we can understand. Let's say a couple hundred years ago, it might show itself in a different form, not a piece of technology because they didn't have technology. There's a lot of ideas behind it, but from what I understand, nobody actually knows what's going on.
00:55:22
Speaker
But there are a lot of people that you can hear too, that talk about having experiences, which are really interesting. It's fascinating stuff. It's a really interesting subject. And I agree with you. I don't really think people, or there's anyone out there that knows, that really knows, but I think that there's more information out there than we have. Well, yeah, there's people that know like way more, like for instance, there is, there's known video, like they have high
00:55:50
Speaker
resolution video of this stuff that I think this is what I think that we will 100% we will get the videos of the UFOs and stuff we're gonna get that we got those three infrared videos and
00:56:05
Speaker
They have even just the congressional hearing they just had, they released another video, but it was like filmed like an iPhone from a cockpit. And it was just like a spherical object that went by like so fast. It was, you know, nothing special as an iPhone video in the sky through a cockpit.
00:56:23
Speaker
Um, but there's, you know, they talk about, they have a 23 minute video of a UAP engaging with a pilot, like an F 18 or something. So these videos exist and I think we will get those. But one of the reasons we won't is because they have the excuse to not show us the videos because like, for instance, that 23 minute video. They can't just show it to us because it will.
00:56:52
Speaker
The videos release more information than just what's being shown. It'll show what weapon systems we're using, the type of cameras, what they... So it's bad for our adversaries to see that stuff. And for instance, we don't know if we were flying over restricted territory of another nation when this happened. So we can't just put out a video that shows us flying our top secret military equipment over North Korea or something. You know what I mean? There's a lot of things that
00:57:19
Speaker
They can go to to say, no, we can't show you this because X, Y, or Z. So it seems to me that the violent, greedy, warring tendencies of humans are preventing us from again, collectively agreeing on information being true. Therefore, it seems that we are limiting our own evolution.
00:57:42
Speaker
Um, in the way that we conduct ourselves, you know, with other nations, other people, because we're always looking to hide our technology just in case we want to kill everybody across the world.

Interdimensional Theories and Consciousness

00:57:55
Speaker
And again, it seems to me that.
00:58:00
Speaker
maybe the reason that if what you're saying is true that these extra dimensional beings do give us information and kind of cloak themselves in ways that we can understand is to slowly raise our collective consciousness to a level where maybe we stop
00:58:21
Speaker
killing each other. Maybe we stopped dropping bombs on one another. Maybe the weapon systems aren't the focal point of the reason why we release information or keep information. Yeah. And like you said, like it's, it's sad, but like everything is national security, this national security that which in the world we live in, it's true. We do need to, you know, make that our priority. So we have security or the illusion of security. Um,
00:58:49
Speaker
But thankfully there is, there's handfuls of people that know this stuff and do want to get information out, but they are respectable people and like, they're not just going to break their oath and just like shout information. I think it's going to be released in a very strategic, informed way and.
00:59:13
Speaker
I'll tell you, it's coming. It's already happening right now. So people that are interested in the topic on this topic, they know this. For the average person, they are starting to hear a little bit more because like I said, the congressional hearings, they put it on mainstream TV a bit. But there's so much information on the internet now that you can really verify a lot of this stuff that's been going on for yourself by just looking it up.
00:59:41
Speaker
Like I said, the government has been piling a lot of money into this and it's only a matter of time before we start getting more videos, which is interesting. I like seeing the videos because it's just, it's crazy, you know?
00:59:56
Speaker
For now, the government is claiming that they have no idea what they are, but they're not ours, and they aren't our adversaries. So there's something flying around that we don't know what it is, and it can overperform everything that we have.
01:00:12
Speaker
But my point of view is that it's far beyond just nuts and bolts craft like UFO, like it's a part of a bigger phenomenon that's happening that is intelligent and is interacting with us. I mean, you look at people, there's credible people that are quote unquote, experiencers, like people, high level CIA people that have seen this stuff and experienced it.
01:00:38
Speaker
For instance, with Skimwalker Ranch, there's an effect they call it the Hitchhiker effect, where if you go to the ranch and you see something or something happens to you, it like follows you home. Basically the way I look at it is like, once the gate is open, you can't close it. So like, let's say.
01:01:00
Speaker
Somebody sees something sinister, something weird on the ranch, then they could live halfway across the country and they start getting this stuff happening in their house or around their home. They'll see orbs or some weird type of stuff like that.
01:01:17
Speaker
They call it the hitchhiker effect I think because they believe it's something like following them, but I think it's more of like you open the gate that can't be closed. So now you're seeing things that you couldn't see before necessarily and it's presenting itself to you more. And this is interesting because it's like high level CIA guys that swear by it and they talk about it. They try to hush hush this stuff, but there are people out there that talk about the hitchhiker effect and the reality of it. It's really interesting.
01:01:47
Speaker
Yeah, to me, it seems like it's extra dimensional. Like if I'm going to just like speculate on my own, because I honestly, I don't think that, you know, if we look at the information that the government's giving us or any information we can find online, I don't think it's responsible to make conclusions and to sort of like attach yourself to the beliefs of whatever conclusions that you're trying to make, because there's just no way to make a valid conclusion. There's no, there's not enough information.
01:02:14
Speaker
But what I will say is that if I am tasked with sort of coming up with my own little imaginary conclusion, I think it's probably interdimensional, probably has something to do with consciousness. And I believe that the earth gives us certain chemicals in order for us to poke through to that dimension to gain information, maybe to get like a little bit of a
01:02:41
Speaker
an experiential view of what's actually out there, what is actually coming to contact us. If it is something with some sort of like motivation, I mean, who knows? It seems when you go into certain psychedelic experiences that there is a motivation, there is an intelligence, and there's something that is driving whatever you're experiencing and that it loves you and it cares about you.
01:03:04
Speaker
And I mean, ultimately, you know, the way I look at these things, I don't tend to fear any of this kind of stuff because to me and what I've experienced and what I've learned is that, and I always say this, it's all love. And I think that the extra dimensional beings, whatever they may be.
01:03:24
Speaker
I think love is what dominates in those realms because I think love is the basis of evolution and the basis of pretty much everything that is real beyond real.
01:03:39
Speaker
Yeah. Love is the bee's knees. That's what it is. It's the cat's pajamas. But as far as, like you said, as a conclusion, there is no conclusion other than that the phenomenon is real. And anybody who claims to have a conclusion or an answer, you should be wary of them because they're either lying or they could be kind of, you know, they might just not
01:04:08
Speaker
Nobody knows officially, I'll put it that way. The phenomenon is real and any other conclusion is just speculation. So like anybody who claims to know what it is, there's no way to really believe them for sure. But as far as the information that you can find online and the FOIA stuff, I give that.
01:04:27
Speaker
All credit, all credit. Like certain information you can find is just leaked and it's real stuff, but all the real stuff isn't conclusive to what it is or a motive or anything like that. But it is proof that it is here and being investigated. That's the only proof you're going to get. You're not going to see any proof of a motive or what it even is, but you'll be able to follow paper trails and listen to people that worked on these projects talk about
01:04:57
Speaker
that it is a real thing happening and they just don't understand it basically and That goes into like I said How you said, you know consciousness is a part of it. Well, it's it's yeah a huge part of it I mean, especially if you're of the belief that consciousness is fundamental and I think Once you start coming around to that idea and looking through that lens it makes these
01:05:27
Speaker
these experiences and all this stuff seem a lot more realistic.