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Eli Hartley: Scrambling to be Everything!
32 Plays6 months ago
This week on the Podcast I have Eli Hartley.
We have good long conversation about and using different artistic mediums as a means to best express their ideas.
We talk about their work as a Makeup and Special Effects Artist on films like ‘A Malevolent World’ (Drink a shot!), as well as the films they have directed like the upcoming ‘I am Everything’.
We also talk about their work as drag artist Elidrogyney and how this has evolved into Drogyney Productions to produce work such as ‘Alien on my Home Planet’.
Finally, we discuss ‘Poor Things’ and Eli’s take on the film’s lack of male gaze.
Show Art is by Craig Pearson.
Theme Music is 'Silent Movie 91' by Sascha Ende.
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Transcript
Introduction to Podcast and Guest
00:00:09
Speaker
Hello and welcome to What Makes You Tick, a conversation podcast where I, Ryan Watson, speak to actors, writers, filmmakers and a range of other artists in the northeast of England and sometimes beyond about what they do, how they make it work and the media that inspires them to do that work.
00:00:21
Speaker
Today I'm speaking to Eli Hartley. Eli is a filmmaker and professional makeup artist. They've worked on short films such as Who Wins, Alice in Sunderland Shot Repeat Shot. They also did makeup and special effects for What Makes Your Tick Favourite, the upcoming a Malevolent World, and have also recently directed the short film I Am Everything. As well as all of this, they've done work as a drag artist under the name Eli Drodgeni where, among other things, they released a music video called Alien on My Home Planet.
Technical Difficulties Encountered
00:00:47
Speaker
Eli, welcome to the show.
00:00:49
Speaker
Hello, thank you for having me. Yes, this is the second time we've done this. It is. Yeah, i don't i totally I don't really know why it didn't work the first time. but you know It was a great rehearsal run.
00:01:02
Speaker
Yes, it was. I don't know, felt like it was one of them that seemed to go so well as well. And those are the ones where it's always like, oh, this is not recording. Although that sounds like I'm saying all the others are terrible, which is not what I'm saying. Favourite, yeah. Yeah. But yeah, so I guess I used the intro
Insights on 'I Am Everything'
00:01:22
Speaker
that I used last time. I mean, have you been up to anything else since the last time we spoke?
00:01:26
Speaker
Um, honestly, I've been just working more on, like you mentioned, I Am Everything. I've been in the edit. I'm still not sure when exactly it'll come out, probably sometime next year. But yeah, just moving forward with that. So that's something that I'm like, really loving at the moment. I know you mentioned before that it had been a bit of a troubled, troubled shoot as everything started to smooth out a little bit. um Yeah, more so than it had been, because it was a very cursed production from the beginning. Everything would have gone wrong, went wrong. But we managed to pull through and it's all gone well. um Currently, I mean, in the edit, everything's looking good. Thank God. Touch wood, like, that nothing goes wrong with that. The tiniest thing is that in one of the shots we took, the audio only recorded in the left But see, that's a fixable problem. So like, I'm i'm happy if the thing that goes wrong is that kind of thing and not we lose all the footage and it all goes wrong. Yeah. Oh, well, it's, ah you know, I feel like everyone's having audio problems. It's just audio problems all around. you want to tell us a little bit about i Am Everything just before we get into the sort of background questions and stuff?
00:02:34
Speaker
Yeah, for sure. It's um a short film that I wrote on a whim. One day I just kind of was like, I want to make short film. had an idea and I just started writing it and wrote it over the course of a few days. um And it's basically about a neurodivergent artist trying to fit into...
00:02:52
Speaker
the kind of corporate art world, um the idea of being neurodivergent and still, like even if you're you're an artist and you're in a creative fill field, having to fit into this professional workspace, having to meet deadlines and more so trying to impress everyone else and putting everyone else before yourself, kind of struggling with self-image, how you see yourself and kind of creative block when you're only focused on the perceptions of other people. I'm sorry
Writing Approach and Gender Identity
00:03:21
Speaker
if this is an assumption. I assume that is something that is familiar to you. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it kind of ironically became a self-fulfilling prophecy and with everything going wrong in the process like of kind of pre-production making it.
00:03:36
Speaker
a lot of... I mean, because I ended up self-producing it too as of late, like so far, and I am not a producer, um and so it was a very stressful thing. And because I was so focused on the production side of things, i had to, right before filming, get back around to looking back at the script and reading through what I had written just like a couple months earlier. i was like, oh my god, I predicted my own like arc of exactly what happened. There's things that this main character, Sadie Baxter, says that are exactly things that I had been worrying about and completely forgotten that I'd even put into this script.
00:04:14
Speaker
um And so no, it was a nice thing to be able to put into a film in kind of a neat way to kind of talk about this topic that I guess, yeah, I definitely do struggle with. It's quite interesting that you like the the self- self-fulfilling prophecy aspect of it. That's hard to say. Yeah. Because it's it even if all those things have not sort of come together to be a struggle in that particular way before, you've written this thing and you're drawing from sort of different areas of your life and different experiences. And I guess it's like, in one way, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. And in the other way, it's just sort of, it's almost like a validation that these things you've been thinking about all come together in this one. It's kind of like, i didn' I think when I was writing it, I didn't even...
00:04:58
Speaker
realize what I was writing. No, i kind of knew what I was writing about from a story standpoint, but then through the process of writing it, I was very much like, I'm not basing this on myself. I'm not like writing this character about me. It's like, you know, the kind of reasons why I made Sadie Baxter a cis woman instead of a non-binary person, things like that. i was like trying to put distance between myself and this main character. But then by the time I'd finished the script, I was like,
00:05:24
Speaker
Oh damn, I really have just like kind of accidentally made this about myself. But I think that kind of goes well into my writing. I'm not someone that is particularly... i don't think I would be good at writing about other people's experiences or experiences that I haven't had. I think i i think the film itself, I have so much more of a connection with it because it is...
00:05:49
Speaker
this it's it's a topic that is very personal to me and so I think that's what'll potentially make it that much better than if it was something that I had that disconnect with yeah there's sort of like a truth to it as opposed trying to imagine a truth yeah I find it interesting when like I think a lot of authors and and writers in general tend to write things like big famous things end up written about something that that person hasn't actually experienced. And that really baffles me. I mean, even in the the lens of like a male author writing about a teenage girl or something like that, and it's like so interesting to me how they can know what they're writing about. They must talk to people and things like that. But I find that for me personally...
00:06:33
Speaker
I would feel kind of disingenuous if I was writing about someone else's struggles, because how can I know that I'm writing it correctly? That's not to say that those people are disingenuous. It's just that for me, becomes much easier for me to write about these things if I know from a personal experience what I'm talking about. Do you have any thoughts on like, because I sometimes think there's there's a lot of things where it's like, if I see a book, even even as a dude, like I'm like, if I see a book that's really about, i don't know, like some woman struggling and it's written by a man, I'm like, well, I'm not as interested in that. But then at the same time, it's also important that male authors or like any authors include powerful female characters in in their books and it's like i sometimes like i sometimes feel like when i think about these things i'm contradicting myself in some way yeah yeah definitely it's a really interesting thing to think about because you do you know if men only wrote about men then there would be no no female characters and the same with women um
00:07:32
Speaker
But I think for me, it's kind of... If I was to write about experiences that I don't have, or like I would end up writing about, for example, cis man. But to me, i feel like there is a big oversaturation of those types of characters already. And I think I am very passionate about representing characters that don't get much representation. So writing a story about a neurodivergent artist... or I just wrote another script again in one night randomly about a non-binary person. It's like these characters aren't often the centre of stories. They're sometimes maybe the funny sidekick, but I think I wouldn't have the passion in writing something if it wasn't centring the characters that I've always wished I could see growing up, you know?
Journey from Floristry to Filmmaking
00:08:21
Speaker
Okay, so ah could you tell me about your background? How did you come to filmmaking and sort of where does the makeup artist part of it fit in?
00:08:29
Speaker
Yeah, so i kind of definitely took the long route in everything I do, probably partially because of the neurodivergentness. I kind of, I didn't know what I wanted to do coming out of school. um i just knew i wanted to do something creative. i ended up doing floristry for a year. um And then after that I ended up going on to makeup, which I had actually originally wanted to do, like makeup artistry, but specifically the kind of special effects side of things. But the struggle with that in kind of education is that you have to start with the kind of bridal makeup, prom makeup, which is not the kind of thing that I'm interested in. But after that year of floristry, I kind of decided i I'd done all that I really wanted to do in that I wasn't that interested in going further. And so I was kind of like...
00:09:16
Speaker
I might as well just go on to makeup. I don't know what else I would want to do, so I'm just going try it out. Why not? And i ended up staying there for two years doing... You know, I kind of got on to the next year doing more creative makeup, which was something I really enjoyed. I still do enjoy. And from there, I ended up doing makeup for a film, ah for a horror film. And then on that first set, I think it was like a 10-day shoot. It was for a feature film. threw it, ended up just like...
00:09:45
Speaker
loving the process of filmmaking. I ended up getting involved a lot. It was a very small crew and so I ended up helping out a lot with just bits and pieces, a lot with continuity because as a makeup artist continuity is very important and so this film actually unfortunately didn't end up coming out as was intended. It got cut into a short and put into an anthology in a different feature film called Power Cut but it was for The Curse of Eddie Bishop which The storyline of it is basically time travelling, people stuck in these woods, and when they cross certain lines, they go into different time periods, and so each character literally has their own entire timeline. And so I, as the makeup artist, had to be very vigilant about this. Who is injured in what scene? What injuries do they have as their timeline goes on? And so from that, I kind of found that I really liked...
00:10:35
Speaker
the process of like, I knew the continuity well, I knew the script. And so whenever there was questions about that, I was very happy to get involved in helping with stuff like that. And then from there, I ended up getting involved with just more and more responsibilities. And I think by the end of that film, I ended up actually getting credited as a production assistant. And so it was just something that ah it didn't happen on purpose. It was just...
00:10:59
Speaker
something that i kind of fell into and found that I really liked and of course I still do make up on films but I think at this point I'm much more I mean I'm doing film now at university i have been for my god I'm on my third year now i' I'm in my second year of my course but I did a foundation year and so it's kind of just something that I kind of accidentally discovered that I really enjoyed doing With the time travel stuff, I'd never really thought about it. Well, that's like, you probably had to be one of the people who had the clearest idea of the timelines. Are we talking like multiple characters are sort of time traveling at different stages? So one person might be like at the start and one person might be a lot later on. And they're in the same scene. I think it was honestly a really good first film for me to be involved with because it was such a complex job in that sense that I had to work so hard for that one. I spent so much time going through the script. I had to use a notepad to go through and write every single individual character, what is their storyline, even if it's out of order in the film, so that in each scene I can establish where they are. Are they supposed to have this head wound at this point or has that not happened yet? Things like that. um And so because that was such a complex job to start on, I found going forward, because I was thrown in the deep end, I have a lot more of an understanding of things like that.
Education versus Practical Experience
00:12:21
Speaker
I kind of,
00:12:22
Speaker
Everything else is a bit of a doozy compared to that one. yeah I'm much more aware of things like continuity and just filmmaking in general because I started out with that kind of project. so Yeah, I can imagine going to something that's just a nice linear A to B thing is is is's almost relaxing compared to that. yeah So when you were studying makeup, obviously that was much more general than just special effects style makeup.
00:12:49
Speaker
so But then you moved into film. How much of a learning curve was it going from one to the other? Well, honestly, because I did these creative courses, so I did floristry first, like I said, and then makeup, they both kind of come into film in certain ways. I think every creative... passion kind of links into each other in some way or another. So like in my my year of floristry, had to learn all about colour theory. And so then when I went into makeup, I already had this understanding of colour theory and the same with film and colour grading. I have this this understanding of colour theory. But then in makeup, um part of what we studied is, for example, the effect of lighting on someone's skin. How is different types of lighting going to make makeup look? You know, if you have a purple light on someone that's wearing purple eyeshadow,
00:13:34
Speaker
it's going to disappear things like that and so i was going into film then with already this base level understanding of certain aspects of it that I had already learned and then even going to uni for film I'd already been in the industry for a year ish maybe two and so from that like I i was expecting to go into this course being the absolute dummy that doesn't know anything because all these people have, you know, done film A-levels and stuff like that that I hadn't done. um
00:14:05
Speaker
But I think what I've found is that experience is, it it helps you so much more than sitting in a classroom can. I think I i didn't realise how much I actually did know just from picking it up um
Balancing Multiple Roles in Filmmaking
00:14:18
Speaker
on sets. So that's kind of something that's interesting.
00:14:21
Speaker
There's certain people I've heard ask like whether going to to uni for film is even worth it. I think it it is because you get qualifications, you get the opportunity to make these films, you get the opportunity to use equipment, things like that. But you don't have to. i think it's something where if you can just start making things and just get yourself in network know people you can learn as much as you need and you know every set i go on you still learn things everything you learn can help impact things you do in the future i've always thought of it as like it's not like being a i don't know engineer or something where it's like you need this qualification to be able yeah to do this it's more like the it's one way of learning the things that you need to learn but you don't necessarily need to learn it through that path yeah for sure you know when you're directing films do you do the makeup on that or is that somebody else so yeah this was kind of a thing with i am everything is that i kind of needed a makeup artist because i didn't want to be you know especially with a project that big there's there's been short films so i i recently actually released shit man which is what shit man shit man okay
00:15:28
Speaker
With a big red-ass hitman. Oh, okay. I got it. hard neck It was meant to be a one-shot film, but with the the kind of we re-edited it, so it's ah a bit longer than a minute, and which is on the Believe Productions YouTube channel now. But I directed that, but because it was such a small project, it was kind of like a couple days shoot. There's, for example, that the main character gets a broken nose in it, and so it's like I was able to do the makeup for that because that's something that you know no one else...
00:15:57
Speaker
on my course is gonna know how to do ah this kind of makeup and I might as well utilize it if I can but when it comes to a bigger project like I am everything it was something where it's like I'm not gonna have time to be worrying about that there were certain things that I did like kind of splattering paint on ah the character and things like that but I ended up just having to ask the actresses like what kind of makeup are you comfortable with doing I think that's something that actually directors sometimes don't consider. i get asked to do makeup sometimes on films where I'll say, okay, cool, what kind of makeup do you want? And they say like, oh, just like touch-ups.
00:16:32
Speaker
And I think that is valid. That is a fair enough thing to want. But then half the time, like when I have done those shoots, I'll turn up and all the actresses will already have their makeup done because they've done it themselves, how they like to do it. And so it's kind of a thing where actually you can communicate with actors about what they are comfortable in doing. you know I was very lucky that the actresses um that were in it, we had Melissa Jackson, Eleanor Beck and Laura Lee.
00:16:57
Speaker
they They all did amazing makeup for their characters. And yeah, it was just kind of something where it's like, I can guide them in the kind of makeup that I'm wanting and see what what it is that they are able to do. And so it's kind of a collaboration with the actresses themselves on how they see their character and how they think their character would do their makeup, things like that. Are there situations where the way someone would normally do their makeup doesn't necessarily fit with the lighting and things? Yeah, it's happened sometimes where I've like gone on a shoot as makeup artist and I get there and, for example, an actress will show up and they've done their own makeup and in the kindest way possible, it's...
00:17:37
Speaker
Not that how I would have done their makeup. It's something that i you know I'll get done i'll be like, oh, I'm taking credit for this. oh yeah But then again, it's like, you know people do their makeup in however it makes them feel comfortable. That is not to say that their makeup is bad. it is just like you said, it's like,
00:17:55
Speaker
this character wouldn't necessarily... It's interesting for this character to done their makeup like that, especially in certain like certain situations. you know I've done makeup on all sorts of films. and I mean, even M11 World. i'm not like This didn't happen on M11 World. But like for example, using that as an example, say an actress turned up with a full face of makeup on, it's like, you're in an apocalypse. How have you done that makeup? And so I think it's a thing that only happens very rarely, and if it is a problem... I can be like, hey, can I take your makeup off? And it has happened before where they're like, yeah, I just did it, you know, for the travel here. I just wanted to do my makeup. And so it's never really ah a big problem, but it is kind of a funny thing when you show up and someone else has already done their makeup and it's like, well, I'll just sit in the corner then. I didn't mean to make it sound like I was looking for some juicy, juicy. No, no. i mean But I guess. Very fair question. It's most likely that these things just kind of happen perfectly innocently and just... ah Oh, yeah. Yeah, like like many things. like I guess people there's probably all sorts of people showing up in their own clothes. I mean, yeah, it's the same with like people having different hair and stuff when you do reshoots. I mean, that was something in I Am Everything. We ended up having to...
00:19:05
Speaker
shoot a day that was about a month after when we shoot everything else, which isn't too much time. But unfortunately, our main actress was scheduled for a photo shoot with um a different head colour and cut um shortly after we'd finished filming. And so it was like, oh, we have to figure out how to kind of conceal this. And we did it. And you know luckily, the colour wasn't too different, things like that. And I just had to rejig how like the kind of style her hair would be in in these certain scenes it's not much and again i don't think it's noticeable and so you know but that is something that's interesting that when it comes to continuity with makeup or hair and things like that is something that you don't think about too much and then it becomes a problem so you know you've mentioned you'd sometimes be the person who knew about makeup when you had started film at uni did you ever feel like you had to sort of struggle to get out of just doing the makeup like the specific roles you had to push towards Yeah, I think that's more of a thing that's happened not even at uni. It's kind of in the the film industry in the Northeast. And like like I said, I still love doing makeup. And it you know it very much depends on the job. Things like, again, bringing it back to a malevolent world, because that's what we're both yeah with. But like things like that, that is like so creative. That's something that I'm so invested in. But to a certain point, it can become a little bit...
00:20:28
Speaker
I don't know if stifling is the word but where you're only getting asked to set to do touch-up makeup or something like that and it's like well actually could I come on and do actually you know some kind of camera job or something like that like it's not ah like I'm very grateful to even be asked to come for people to even you know know me and and ask me to come along like it's that is something I'm definitely grateful for because I mean, how I've even gotten into this industry was through makeup. And so it's very understandable that people kind of know me as the the makeup guy. But um it is an interesting point to where it's like,
00:21:03
Speaker
Could I do something else though as well? But no, I think that's something that I've definitely had to kind of regulate myself with of like not making myself take makeup jobs that is just touch-ups or just natural makeup because that's not what I want to be doing. yeah,
00:21:23
Speaker
not feeling the need to scramble and be like, yeah, okay, ah yeah, I'll do that just because I want to be included in some way, allowing myself to say, I'm sorry, that's not really, I'm i'm doing more special effects things at the moment. I'm not taking these kinds of things. And also, you know, translating that into work as a working makeup artist. If someone, you know, if it's a job, like a paid job,
00:21:47
Speaker
ah you know, fair enough. You know, if you if you want touch-up makeup, if you want a natural makeup, fair enough. If it's something that you're willing to to, like, pay for and that will support me doing, like, spending that time doing something that isn't going to creatively push forward with the things that I'm trying to do, you know, it's ah it's a business and that's totally something that I i accept and I'm very happy to do. and But when it comes to a lot of the kind of voluntary work that happens, which again, absolutely grateful to even be there, be in the room. I'm much more focused now on projects where it is something much more creative and particularly kind of special effects and things like that.
00:22:27
Speaker
Do you think I Am Everything kind of works almost like as a calling card of everything you can do? Because you did basically, you've done all sorts of, you've directed it, you're editing it now, as you mentioned. um Last time we spoke, you told me about all sorts of different producing issues with sort of scheduling and all sorts of things. It almost seems as if it's like, here's an example of everything I can do. i can do this and this and this. It very much is. Where the idea stemmed from was i saw like a quote, I don't know if i saw it on literally TikTok, but it may have come from somewhere else, I don't know. But the idea of like...
00:23:02
Speaker
trying so hard to be everything because I'm afraid that I'll become nothing or something like that. Or even in the in the reverse, becoming nothing because I tried so hard to to be everything. The idea of like scrambling to be a little bit good at a lot of things or trying to focus on being really good at certain particular things. And so um it does definitely stem from like I've done all these different things and I think creatively that is a big issue with me is I'm not good at deciding and narrowing down exactly what it is that I'm wanting to do in the creative project. And so that does come into the film where for this art project, ah Sadie Baxter, the main character, is...
00:23:49
Speaker
is trying all these different art mediums. She's trying to be everything. She tries painting, she tries sculpting, she tries sewing, all these different she tries music, all these different art mediums that she's trying to scramble to figure out what can, you know, be her best work. But through doing that, she's not focusing on what is at the core of her art. The the theme that she gets given for this art project is me, the word me. And so,
00:24:16
Speaker
She's scrambling all this stuff instead of actually looking at who am i what what shows me authentically. She's trying to find something that will please other people through trying all these different mediums of what can she you know produce the best out of. It
Exploring Identity through Drag
00:24:33
Speaker
is a big part of that film due to the things that I've kind of done over time. It's quite interesting it's sort of an interesting counterpoint to some of the... um I don't know if you know Rob rob Carr. um I just did an episode with him a few weeks ago, so I'll write it in through that.
00:24:49
Speaker
Possibly do, I'm not sure. he Because he does all sorts, he he makes films, he runs like a headshot business and he'll do showreels and things for people. But he'd used this, ah you know, there's the old saying, like, a jack of all trades, a master of none. But then he said there's ah a second part to the phrase, which is, but still better than a master of one. And he said, that's actually the full phrase. And I found that really interesting just because it's like, I guess if you do really focus on one thing, then there's a level of limiting yourself. Mm-hmm.
00:25:17
Speaker
But then with what you're saying, it's really interesting, the idea about it's almost like less about finding one thing or many things and more about understanding the the best way of representing who you are. Yeah, I think I i definitely you know agree with that. I'm a very existential person. I'm very aware at all times that like life is weird. How are we existing?
00:25:43
Speaker
Not to get too much into that, but the idea of I don't want to live my life limiting myself to one thing. That is definitely something that comes into it a lot. um I don't want to...
00:25:55
Speaker
just say I'm a filmmaker because i I make all sorts of other things. I've made music before randomly. I'm about to start a podcast. ah Things like that. It's like i'm I have painted. I've done literally every art medium that I can get my hands on because...
00:26:14
Speaker
I do think you know it's a big part of life of just like creating in whatever form you can. And so I Am Everything kind of narrows into the idea of like, but can that go too far when it's not something that you're passionate about? you know I've had passion in all of these different areas, 1000% at any point in time. But the point of I Am Everything, I think, is...
00:26:36
Speaker
trying to force a passion in these things when you don't feel it rather than just going with what you're actually truly feeling. Where where does Eli Drogyny fit, I guess, with all all this stuff? Is that something you've done alongside? So Eli Drogyny is a drag persona that I kind of have...
00:26:55
Speaker
been known by, I'm known by, I don't know. i'm not It's not something I'm actively doing at the moment, but it's also not something that I'm like, I've hung up for good. You know, drag came from this experience of growing up as a queer person with not much representation and, ah you know, a lot of bullying for being queer, things like that. I i left...
00:27:17
Speaker
school and moved to a small school um because of this, you know, bullying about being queer. And so drag was kind of this opportunity to be in queer culture and to be around other queer people while expressing this creativity in whatever way it comes. I, as a kid, was like, I was loved performing. I did like stagecoach and stuff like that. Like I was one of those kids that Definitely very annoying as a child, but Eli Drogyny was kind of a way of putting that... Because I had stopped performing at all when I came out as non-binary because I was facing all of these issues. It was just something that was like, I don't want to be seen by people. And so Eli Drogyny was very much being able to perform in this persona. It feels like putting on like armor or like a mask that... to be able to go out and, like I said, be immersed in queer culture. Yeah, and so that's kind of where where it came from.
00:28:18
Speaker
the the reason why it kind of faded out over time is almost because of, you know, this kind of trying to please other people thing. Past a certain point as a drag artist, at least in the jobs I was doing, I'm very, you know, still all for drag, 1,000%. I was finding that in the spaces that I was doing it, it kind of became...
00:28:39
Speaker
for straight people or for cis people, you know, kind of women going on their nights out on their hen do to a drag bar. And it was like, this isn't the the culture that I'm trying to be a part of This isn't something that's fulfilling me anymore. And especially being an AFAB drag artist, meaning assigned female at birth.
00:29:00
Speaker
in a world that is very saturated by AMAB, drag artists, assigned male at birth, sometimes in certain jobs I had, in a specific job I had, I ended up kind of becoming surrounded by misogyny and misogynistic gay men, that it became a toxic place. And so I think a lot of factors contributed to it not becoming something enjoyable anymore. It became something where it's like, I'm having to put on this face every week and go. And I started feeling truly just like a clown on stage performing for people, um you know, like dancing like a monkey. like and Like I said, I think drag is still beautiful and wonderful and is absolutely something I want to get back to. But I think I have to do it in a way that is something that is fulfilling for me and not forcing myself into these spaces where I'm not comfortable. Can I ask what my... like Sometimes I like to ask an intentionally silly question, like sort of ask it in its stupidest form. What is drag? Because i think when you talk to me about drag, it seems like it's so much more than what I understand as drag. Yeah, it's not a silly question at all. I think if you ask...
00:30:08
Speaker
each drag artist that same question they'll probably give you a different answer slightly I think a lot of people see drag particularly people that aren't queer see a drag as like a man dressing as a woman that's kind of the very basic surface level what drag is but that's not really it at all I have always said drag is exploring gender through the medium of art in some way or another. Drag is, for me, it was very much making a caricature of these gender characteristics.
00:30:38
Speaker
I, as a non-binary person, you know, get dysphoric about femininity and appearing feminine, but then drag was this place where I could enhance these feminine characteristics while enhancing these masculine characteristics and just be this over-the-top creature. I kind of got referred to as a drag creature a lot because I wasn't really, I'm not a drag queen or a drag king. I guess drag artist is always the word I used, but I even made a documentary. God, I forget the things I've done, honestly. I made a documentary called Drag Creature that was kind of about my experience with drag. And it can be different for everyone, but I would say it is definitely just like an expression of gender through mediums of art and through makeup and performance and all these different mediums.
00:31:22
Speaker
think that's why I wanted to ask the question. it would just like It seems like you got into it because it was a way to explore those things and it's sort of maybe getting stuck in some of the, is toxic the right word? More toxic aspects that have sort of pushed you out of it? Yeah, it literally does, again, reflect on i am everything, not to bring everything back to this, but obviously it's my main project right now. But this idea that something that was once something you were so passionate about and it's something that is so intrinsic to you, but then it becoming about pleasing other people and trying to fit yourself into...
00:31:57
Speaker
a world that isn't really built for you in a way, kind of. So an artist trying to fit into a corporate world of having a job as an artist, or a drag artist trying to make money has to work a job every week where they're, you know, if you're getting paid for it, you've you've got to perform for people who are potentially going to be rude, who are going to who don't understand drag at all and just want hear jokes about willies and like, Stuff like that. And it's like finding that balance, I think, is something really important. And I think something as well that ah contributed to me not doing it so much anymore is the fact that a lot of drag culture is immersed in like clubs and club scenes and nightlife, which is not something that I do anymore. I used to when I was like kind of 18 19 to maybe 20.
00:32:46
Speaker
now 22. I... maybe twenty i'm now twenty two i I'm autistic. I've recently been diagnosed with ADHD. I don't enjoy being in a loud, bright, flashy club for hours on end, especially when I'm trying to perform in some way or another. And I also, i like a good night of sleep. I'm in a bright, loud club with people yelling in my ear like, hey, look!
00:33:14
Speaker
Like, that's and it's, again, it is a wonderful place of community. Do not get me wrong at all. Like, it was a, you know, especially places like Bobby's. I used to go to Bobby's drag night, like open drag night in Newcastle. And the people, like, it is a wonderful community. It is just stuff that I think for me personally...
00:33:33
Speaker
that kind of scene isn't something that I enjoy anymore, just the kind of clubby, loud atmosphere. It's something where I think for me doing drag going forward would look a lot more like linked with my filmmaking, making stuff where I can record it in my own space that I can control without having to perform live in this atmosphere. Because I'd seen you'd done the music video Alien on my home planet. That seemed to be sort of a a way of doing drag that you were quite happy with. Is that right? Yeah, for sure. I think that might have been one of the last times I got in drag, actually, since then. um
00:34:12
Speaker
But that that is definitely the route I would go forward with it. That was a project that I loved so much. It did link to my drag in a ah nice
Creative Projects and New Podcast
00:34:21
Speaker
way. The song was about...
00:34:23
Speaker
being neurodivergent and growing up feeling like an alien and not understanding what's different about you. And so I kind of took that with the music video of being this drag creature who just landed on Earth from outer space and is trying to assimilate into human life, but people are just giving you weird looks. And, like, obviously it's because I am this caricature of, like, an alien of this, you know, I'm e-hydrogyny and it people are giving me dirty looks as I'm walking down the street, but not understanding why, not understanding what makes you different as that person. And so, yeah, that...
00:34:58
Speaker
That was, you know, it's still one of my favourite things I've ever done. I still love that music video. I'm very proud of it. And I'm proud of everyone that worked on it um because it looks absolutely amazing. um Yeah. Is it watchable somewhere? I'm like, I should have watched this before I spoke to you. No. Yeah, it's it's on my YouTube channel, which was called Eli Drogyny, but literally last night I changed it to Drogyny Productions for this kind of reason of going forward and creating stuff myself that doesn't have to be me as Eli Drogyny. But being Eli Drogyny is more than me being in drag to me. But I...
00:35:38
Speaker
I like the idea of drogyny productions because it means I can make films that don't have anything to do with Eli drogyny or have everything to do with Eli drogyny and have a home for them altogether. It's where I'm planning to start posting podcast episodes and just have it be this space for me to make whatever I want to make. And again, try not to be focused on what other people want and just make things that make me happy. Having this one channel that's mine and mine alone rather than I've put work on various channels like Believe Productions like I was mentioning Shitman went up on there which is a collaboration with me and a couple uni friends and that is a wonderful place but that is stuff that is collaborating with other people and it's um stuff that I've not made for me things like I Am Everything will go on my space that's my kind of work that I'm passionate about Do you have anything you can say about your podcast yet? Or is it still? Oh, it's, I mean, it's still in the works. I've actually just ordered a bunch of equipment, which I'm excited about. And this is a thing that I was kind of like, i don't need equipment to start. I've got a microphone that can literally do, but I kind of, I kind of, Like I said, I kind of see it as almost like a creative endeavour that I want to make it just a nice video podcast where I just kind of sit and talk about whatever I want. And i think a big part of this podcast is going to be that it's not necessarily made for anyone else. I'm very content with the idea that it gets...
00:37:02
Speaker
one view and that one view is me. Like, I think for me, it's going to be a space of like, me allowing myself the time to just sit and talk about what I want to talk about and things that I want to put out into the world. And I would be so grateful if people want to come along and listen. Absolutely. But I'm not going to focus on trying to make it something that is for other people i just which is kind of you know not what a podcast is meant to be i think you may say just like go to therapy then um but honestly it's like i kind of like this idea of it then also puts this pressure on my shoulders to make something every week and put something out so yeah i think it's going to be called the droge cast um that's a good name Thank you. I made a logo, which is a microphone with a mullet, with my mullet. night
00:37:53
Speaker
is um And so, yeah, I think it's just going be me sitting in my egg chair chatting. That sounds good. like Because I'm so in agreement about doing a podcast that way. like I've managed to get a good 20 listeners, which to me is like like thousands If anyone decides to sit and watch or listen my entire podcast episode, that means the world to me. That someone actually sat and wanted to hear what I had to say, that is like priceless to me. Yeah, it's it's some amazing. I think you sort of mentioned, oh, some people might say go to therapy, but I'm i'm literally talking to all the people that ah that I'm scared to ask questions to in in regular seconds and going, can we just have a long conversation? Yeah. kind of is its own form of therapy in some ways isn't it it's like all therapy really is is being able to say something to someone that you you struggle to say in another setting definitely i think i mean sorry that might not be all therapy really is that just that that is the use i've found in therapy Yeah, no, i'm absolutely. I think I think intellectually about a lot of topics and that may sound like, oh, I'm so intellectual.
00:39:03
Speaker
But I think a lot of points in my life I've been perceived as this kind of not ditzy, but just kind of a silly person. And I am still, like, don't, do not get me wrong. And the podcast, I think, would be a mix of those things. But I think I like the idea of having a space to talk about these topics in a way that I don't want to you know, if I'm in a conversation with someone, I don't want to spend an hour talking at them about some topic. And so it'll be this nice space for me to just get out all these thoughts I have about certain topics and you know, various things. I've got like certain, you know, topic ideas in mind that are things that's like, I don't want to get too into specifics, but I mean, even with certain like political things or things like that, it's like, sometimes people will have a very surface level view of things.
00:39:52
Speaker
I kind of like the idea of, even if in that conversation, I can't say you're wrong, this is why Z, but being able to, for me to just sit and put out this kind of actual intellectual conversation about why I believe things the way I do and not forcing anyone to sit and listen to it.
00:40:14
Speaker
But say I did get into a conversation like that, I could say, well, actually, if you're interested in learning more about this, I did lots of research about it and talked about it in this thing. And it could be a thing where if someone is interested in a topic,
00:40:25
Speaker
they can go listen to that kind of thing. But yeah, it's kind of just something where, like I know you we'd when we were messaging before, you'd said something like, oh, what's it going to be about? And in that moment, I'm like, it's honestly about literally nothing. Like it's about everything and nothing. I mean, everything comes back to this concept of everything and nothing but it's just like we were talking about not putting limitations on yourself it's like I just want to do whatever I feel like talking about that day you know yeah I've even found it a struggle when people have said Ryan what's your podcast about because I think like what you're describing it is just like having a space to just it's like with everything you've you've discussed it's it's another way to express yourself and i think in a lot of ways that's that's more important than saying I'm doing a podcast about the TV show Succession or something. But I make money every day. Yeah. or even even the best podcasts that are about Succession, for example, I think i feel like the the ones that I would really sort of relate to are the ones where it's people expressing themselves. It's not necessarily, what's your insight into Succession? It's like, what can this person teach me about themselves and how to view the world? I mean, the podcasts that I listen to are very much, I mean, I don't listen to like loads of podcasts is the thing. I'm not a massive podcast person, but the podcasts that I do listen to, there is a helicopter going overhead. I don't know if you can hear that. ah
00:41:50
Speaker
um But the podcast that I listen to is very much people that want to listen to. think I will kind of sometimes if there's certain podcasts where it's like, I like this person, so I like their podcast, but I'm not necessarily going to watch every episode. But if I see they're talking about a topic that I really like, I'm going to watch that whole thing. And then there's some podcasts where, I mean, big inspiration of mine is the Sweet Boys podcast, which... I feel like no one is going to know what that is. It was literally a podcast from, you know, the end of 2020 to about halfway through 2021 of these two guys, Garrett Watts and Andrew Sawicki. And it was literally just them just talking about everything and nothing, the stupidest things you can think of, and then also talking about life and creativity and stuff like that. And so I think that is very much... what I'm taking inspiration from of just taking as it comes and just talking about whatever feels natural and not taking it too seriously just kind of doing it as I please you know are you ready for everyone to say to you hey Joe Rogan does a podcast you can be like him because that's all anyone says to me and I'm like I would uh I would rather be swallowed up by a black hole no tell everyone what medical procedures they should do yeah yeah that's what my podcast is going to be about Okay, well, I look forward to knowing what medical procedures I should do. Is that what Joe Rogan... I don't even know. I know Joe Rogan's bad, and I don't want to listen to him. All I remember... I'm not in the Joe Rogan manosphere, but he was saying things like using horse tranquilizers to fight COVID and stuff like that. Ah, is that right? Yeah. I feel like I knew it was sort of...
00:43:34
Speaker
that kind of area of stuff and was just like, don't know, there's just certain names that come up and you know whether that's thing not your thing. But you know what, there is this kind of funny stereotype almost of like,
00:43:50
Speaker
a man with a microphone, you know? Men like Joe Rogan and people like that who kind of see themselves as these alpha males. And their podcasts are always very much like, this is what you should do to improve your life.
00:44:05
Speaker
you're You're stupid if you're not doing this. And I, like I said, i what do I know about telling you what to do? know what to tell myself to do and so that's kind of what I am focusing on is i mean anything that I'm gonna say on it if I if it ever sounds like I am giving advice in some way or another I will be talking to myself of like what I need to remind myself to do and so again it's like go to therapy but I could just actually sit and just talk and put it out as I please and make it a creative endeavor so yeah We'll move on to another another topic in a second, but it's just, I feel like that advice thing is, I always say this thing to my friend where i'm if I'm giving him advice, I'm always like, this is not something I'm an expert on. This is kind of aimed at me. And I'm like, yeah advice is only actually useful if it's like, it's not like that person needs to have everything solved. It's kind of only really useful if that person has dealt with the same problem, if that makes sense.
Resourcefulness in Special Effects Makeup
00:45:03
Speaker
I remember, i don't again, I don't know where I heard this, but something along, like a phrase along the lines of like, why would you take advice from someone whose life you don't envy? Or something like that. It's like, why would I listen to what Joe Rogan has say? I don't care about what Joe Rogan has say. Oh, like, I mean, Joe Rogan is a very specific example, but any of these like...
00:45:25
Speaker
alpha male podcast bros and they try and present themselves as like someone who i make 10 million dollars every day and it's like do you you know I think you've got to be careful about who you're taking advice from who you're listening to you know if don't take advice from me on anything that you wouldn't want your life to look like mine in that way or another and I i think that is a big important thing of like careful where you're like getting your sources from and listening to to how you should be acting who who is telling you that information i guess i guess we'll move on to poor things now we'll move on to poor things now i wanted to ask about broccoli brain but uh cauliflower brain cauliflower brain i've written broccoli in my notes cauliflower yeah i guess just the the way of broaching that is just um that kind of comes from being resourceful with what you have like as a um as a makeup artist but i guess i mean advice into what you should do like um kind of in every aspect of your life you kind of don't need you know super high quality resources to make something good and i guess people may not know what we are talking about at all yes i'm a On a malevolent world, someone needed their brains bashing out and he used a piece of cauliflower as the brains. And I remember thinking...
00:46:44
Speaker
that didn't look like brains and then suddenly it we're next to ollie the actor's head and all like that is actually braids um and i guess sort of the the bigger question is just kind of about like as someone who does makeup and special effects or where think think these things up yourself is there sort of some i guess like stock ideas that you kind of draw from ah I think I said something about this when we spoke last, but basically the idea of like, when you go to like makeup school, for example, they're not going to teach you how to make bashed in brains. They're not going to teach you how to do a vampire makeup or something like, you know, they're not going to teach you the specifics of how to do every single makeup in the world, but it more puts you into a situation of like,
00:47:30
Speaker
your brief this week is to make bashed in brains. How are you going to do that? You've got to go and research how to do that. And we will kind of grade you accordingly, kind of. um And so it's something where it's like a lot of the skills I learned in makeup didn't necessarily come from being taught it in makeup school or anything. a lot of it comes from researching and listening to other makeup artists and stuff like that. I think the idea where I got the Cauliflower Brains from was a subreddit of, I don't know if it was like a makeup artist subreddit or something like that, or a filmmaking one. and And this person was saying they were working on an all vegan set and they needed some kind of brains. And so they didn't want to use gelatin, which is what's usually used to create kind of silicone gelatin molds of...
00:48:17
Speaker
brains or other prosthetics and stuff. And I'm vegetarian. I i didn't want to use gelatin anyway. And also those kinds of things are expensive. You have to like get a mold, you have to buy all these stuff. And so someone had suggested cauliflower and I was like, that's really interesting. And I did some tests before...
00:48:34
Speaker
like actually shooting of like boiling it in red food coloring water how's that going to affect it and then I actually ended up using a grater like a cheese grater parmesan grater to like grate over the top of it to create more of ah a brain texture and it is just kind of a thing where it's like you just kind of learn as you go and you just kind of figure out what works and then I kind of painted it all with food coloring and then used lots of fake blood, which I made myself as well. Yeah, it's kind of, you can take things that other people have suggested and then jump off from there and learn, well, how can I make that better? Oh, if cauliflower works for brains, say I need some other body part, what could I use in that kind of creative way of thinking to make that? um I'm glad with how it turned out. And another thing is that um the shot that it was in was a very fast-paced, spinning round, one-long-shot fight scene kind of thing. ah where we ended up having to stand off to the side and while the camera was facing away we had to rush in and quickly put the brain down put the blood on it and rush out again which was quite a fun experience but things like that collaborating with the director to find what you know I could have spent hundreds of pounds on creating a realistic brain for it to be in you know medium shot that you're not really seeing super close up and it would have had the same effect um as a cauliflower brain so yeah just kind of using the resources that you have and
00:49:53
Speaker
figuring out do you really need to use super high quality resources can you get the same effect with things that are resourceful it's also interesting the the rushing into the shot and then back out because i i feel like i've not necessarily always thought of the makeup team being as active a participant in a shot um and that's that's just quite interesting sort learning learning experience Yeah, I mean, I guess, I don't know if, does that even count as makeup artist if I'm doing makeup on a brain? Like, I don't know what that job even falls into, if that's like... Special effects? That's the best artist, props. I mean, I love all of it. love doing it. And so it is a thing, actually, yeah, where I think people maybe don't realise how involved...
00:50:37
Speaker
you as a makeup artist can be in lots of things. There's been, you know, shots where someone got a chunk bitten out of their neck. And so I came up with this device of having a balloon in this actress's hand that has fake blood in it. And as soon as her neck's bitten, she puts her hand up to her neck to like, she just got bitten and the blood seeps out between her fingers from this balloon, things like that. And so it's like being right beside the camera with this stuff ready to go and coming up with these things that I think people don't People probably attribute makeup artists to like the makeup that someone's wearing, which it is. But it it does come into a lot more than, I think, the surface level that people see. Is it a fun job to do? Very much so. These kind of special effects things, absolutely. that's Again, it comes back to like when someone asks for just like touch-up makeup or something, it's like, okay, you know I could give or or leave it. But then...
00:51:31
Speaker
you get to do something like this and it's like, this is why I'm doing this. You know, this, you know, it's easy to feel like, God, do I even like doing this? But then you you do something that is like, this is what I'm here for. This is what I've studied for. This is what I'm doing here. um And so it is definitely ah fun thing, especially when it's something that you're passionate about, when it's something that you, you know, it's, yeah, I don't know how to explain what I'm saying, I guess, but just when you're doing it for you and you're doing it in a way that you
Discussion on 'Poor Things' Film Themes
00:52:00
Speaker
find fun. I think that's very much a running theme in everything you've said, pretty much.
00:52:04
Speaker
okay so I think we'll we'll move on to talk about poor things now. Just at the end of each episode, i like to talk about a film or other piece of media that my guest is ah that is important to them in some way. And you chose poor things. I did. Specifically, you wanted to talk about...
00:52:22
Speaker
how it's sort of anti-male gaze is that the right way of putting it yeah kind of it it lacks the male gaze i because yeah i i wrote a whole essay about it a couple years ago for uni because it was like it freshly out and it was something that it was i was very hyper fixated on i love this movie for so many reasons and then when i wrote this essay about it it's like you you explore so deeply into it like i love something that i love about is how um particularly chosen each choice is everything is like framed intentionally um and so yeah there's just so many aspects to look at it from but yeah what I particularly wrote about and find interesting is how it lacks the male gaze and how it positions the female body to the viewers so for example particularly for anyone who doesn't know anything about poor things it's basically without spoiling too much or without getting too convoluted because it is a bit it confusing to just explain, but it's basically kind of a Frankenstein idea, but where a baby's brain is put into a fully grown woman, Emma Stone's body. And so obviously Emma Stone is this gorgeous woman. um And a big theme in the movie is sex. You know, she has a lot of sex in the movie. We see her naked a lot. um But the way it's framed is really clever, in my opinion, because we don't we don't know from the beginning, that that's what's happened. We just know she's a bit odd. We don't know what it is about her. But she is presented to the viewer as a child. When we first see her naked, it's when her kind of nurse, i don't know what the word is, like the woman that looks after her, nurse, maid, lady, babysitter, she takes her for a nap and she's kind of changing her clothes like you would a baby, kind of.
00:54:11
Speaker
And then when you next see her nude her nudity, it's in this really intense sex scene with Mark Ruffalo. And that kind of juxtaposition, the way it's positioned, is really interesting to me. Because then when you're watching it, you see this sex scene and you immediately think, oh, oh God, this is horrible. I don't want to watch this.
00:54:33
Speaker
And it's very clever to me that it's it invokes a disgust at like, oh God, I'm watching a child now. I'm not i'm not looking at this woman. Like you almost at first on surface level feel like, this is horrible. Who's created this? But then when you think deeper into it's like, this is really interesting actually. Yeah, I think um last time we spoke about um like I feel like you actually unlocked the film for me. In some ways, like i really enjoyed when I watched it, but I think my takeaway were more.
00:55:03
Speaker
That was a really good film. I'm a bit not sure about the fact that she's kind of a child. but sort of we're talking to you about it it's like it's like actually no that that's that's the point like it is it is disgusting and and it is bad and it's almost like yeah that is that is actually the purpose of the film that is why that narrative choice was me yeah i think in a lot of sex scenes especially ones as like i guess intense or violent i guess like that it's almost like the quote, blame or whatever you would call it. It's put on the woman. The disgust is like, she's a whore or something. But in that situation, you're going, oh my God, he's a horrible guy having sex with this woman that's basically a child. like You feel disgust at watching it and it's not at her. And I think...
00:55:50
Speaker
what really, in my understanding of the film and the way I interpret is that the whole thing is basically showing a woman's life from start to end of, well, not necessarily end, but from start to maturity of being born as a child, as a girl, and being sexualized way too young, being seen as a sexual object by men when you're a child.
00:56:14
Speaker
And so framing it in that way of making you actually feel disgust at looking at this. It actually is very telling to me. And then as she matures, she finds that sex is something that she really enjoys. And she's being told she should be ashamed for that, basically, even though all the men around her have been using her for sex anyway. But as soon as she takes control of that, she ends up ah becoming a prostitute in Paris, I believe. She is shamed for being a prostitute. Mark Ruffalo himself calls her a whore and all this stuff. when he's been sexualising her since she was basically a baby. And so it is a really interesting thing. I love looking at movies like this, like, what is the metaphor beneath the surface-level storyline? And I think this is just one of my favourites, where the story of it goes so deep, and it is something that once you realise it, it's like, this feels genius to me. This is, like, an amazing story, and the way it's framed, you know, cinematically...
00:57:15
Speaker
enhances it so much um are you looking forward to bagonia that's uh york and emerson again and yeah so i was so invested in poor things that i knew there was gonna be a second film which was kinds of kindness because stone had like offhandedly mentioned that the cast and crew had kind of made two films and poor things was one of them and So i was like, oh, Kinds of Kindness. This is going to be like the same people. And it is. And I watched it and I didn't enjoy it as much as I did the others. i kind of was like, it's okay. And I love that like cinematically, like it's so beautifully shot. Like it's so, like I love it visually. and But just story-wise, i was kind of like, eh, okay. Yeah.
00:57:54
Speaker
i'm not I'm not that into it. And so Bugonia, I'm kind of like, I'm still very excited for. I'm definitely going to go see it. And I hope it's going to be amazing. Like everything I've seen of it looks really good. But I think my expectations is very much, nothing is going to top Poor Things for me. and So I think that's probably an ah important thing to go into it thinking. Like, you know, I i don't want to go into it being like, this is disappointing. I don't i don't expect it to be anything like what. And I think Poor Things is also specifically disappointing. something very tailored to me and my interests and so other you know I expect it's going to be very again beautiful to look at visually and so I'm very excited for that but now I'm I'm excited to see it and and see maybe it will pop top poor things I don't know but um yeah I'm excited to see it definitely Yeah, I think like it's kind of hard to talk about because I've not seen most of the films. I've seen Yorga Slathom's films, I've seen Poor Things, and I've seen The Favourite.
00:58:49
Speaker
And while The Favourite's different, I feel like there's definitely a there's definitely some overlap in in in the themes. you can If not the exact same themes, it's sort of like... Someone's thought about this thing, and now they've thought about this thing. But then, from what I've heard, some ah some of his older films are a bit harder to watch and a bit more along the lines of kinds of kindness, which is something that some people really appreciate, and some people struggle to click with it. so Yeah, I've like honestly not even seen that many Yorgo's Landmose movies. I, like...
00:59:19
Speaker
For some reason, I don't know, I'm like a bit odd in the way that like I find it very difficult to just sit and watch a movie, which I think is for many reasons, but it's kind of a thing where it's like, I should watch more of them, and I've seen a few, but also I think the other types of films he makes aren't necessarily my type of thing. Like, I watched The Lobster, I think, and that was, like, good, fine, ah but again, it's, like, not my type of movie. I think what made Poor Things so special to me is the combination of, like, it being Yorgos Lanthimos's style and also the storyline and the actors, like, just everything about it came together really well for me. Yeah, I mean, I've been thinking I should watch The Lobster pretty much since Poor Things came out, so, you know... oh I don't remember much about it, to be fair, but like it it was good. it like Again, it's like once I've got poor things at the front of my mind, it's like nothing is going to compare.
Closing Reflections
01:00:08
Speaker
Yeah, I didn't bother with kinds of kindness, though, because it was like I'd kind of heard that it were...
01:00:14
Speaker
I don't know. I was looking forward to after four things. And then, I mean, also it's like three hours long, is it? Oh my God. Yeah, I think it is. It's, it was odd in the way that it was just basically three short films, one after the other with credits rolling in between each one of them, where i feel like it would have, well, i was going to say it would have made more sense to have them overlapping as three stories that kind of come together at the end.
01:00:36
Speaker
But each of the stories, it's the same actors playing different roles. So I guess that would have gotten very confusing. Um, if they weren't one before the other, but I kind of... Yeah, the format of it was kind of weird. It just felt like three short films where it's like, you know, you get invested in one and then suddenly that one's over and you're watching a different one. It's like, oh, well... But no, yeah like I said, it wasn't bad. I did enjoy it, definitely. but it it But it's definitely one that's like an odd one that I think you have to be very artsy to to really enjoy it. um
01:01:10
Speaker
Which, I mean, hey, I love artsiness, so... Maybe I'll see Bagonia next week and suddenly I'll go on a Yorgos tear and then I'll finally go watch Kinds of Kindness. um But yeah, um thank you for talking to me. um This has been great. um Again, ah it's always really good talking to you because I just, I feel like one of the things that I think is most important in doing this is just, it is the idea like expression and talking to people about expression. And I feel like I've slowly been working up to the confidence to talk to people about those things. So it's always nice when we can,
01:01:41
Speaker
have a good discussion about those things so thank you yeah ah well thanks for having me um do you have anything you'd like to to plug and can you tell us where we can find you oh well as i mentioned earlier my youtube channel is now drogyny productions um but also on instagram if you follow me at eli hartley film um i'll probably be posting a lot of the stuff there and then my eli drogyny instagram is also linked there but it's Just do your hydrogen-y. But yeah, I mean, like I said, I'll be hopefully starting this podcast soon. I don't know, depending on when this comes out, if there'll be any out yet. Maybe there'll be loads out um or none out, but keep an eye out for it because it'll be coming at some point. Great. Thank you for talking to me and I'll see you later. Bye. What Makes You Tick is hosted, produced and edited by me, Ryan Watson. Thank you to Craig Pearson for designing the show logo. The theme music is Silent Movie 91 by Sasha End.
01:02:34
Speaker
Thank you once again to Eli for speaking to me for this episode. And join me next week for the What Makes You Tick Season 1 finale, where I can finally say it now because the episode's recorded. My guest will be actor, writer, director, and producer, Craig Conway. And keep an eye out for a preview of that conversation by following at MixyTickPod on Instagram. Thanks for listening.