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Pam Jackson: What happens if I actually try?
31 Plays7 months ago
This week I’m talking to Pam Jackson.
We talk about Pam’s return to performing after fifteen years of having a ‘real job’ and her career as a vocal artist and on projects such as Day after Day. We also have a good chat about some of her favourite games like Baldur’s Gate 3 and Bioshock, as well as some nice, heartwarming talk about Ted Lasso.
Find Pam on Instagram.
Find me on Instagram.
Show Art is by Craig Pearson.
Theme Music is 'Silent Movie 91' by Sascha Ende.
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Transcript
Introduction to 'What Makes You Tick' with Ryan Watson
00:00:10
Speaker
Hello welcome to What Makes You Tick, a conversation podcast where I, Ryan Watson, speak to actors, writers, filmmakers and a range of other artists in the northeast of England and sometimes beyond about what they do, how they make it work and the media that inspires them to do that work.
00:00:22
Speaker
Today I'm speaking to Pam Jackson, a voice actor who Pam, welcome to the on getting onto Spotlights. ah video gameme day
Welcoming Pam Jackson and Her Voice Acting Journey
00:00:30
Speaker
after day she's also ah appeared in luot magic and room of demons she's developed her own games as part of game jam and as well as all this she's appeared on stage at the little theaterat in dracula the radio player and she's recently been accepted on a spotlight which is the self-described cornerstone of the casting industry pam welcome to the shore
00:00:50
Speaker
Oh, thank you very much. Thank you. I've got to give credit to day after day for that. um Very graciously, the producers had me on there as the vocalist and also as potentially the narrator. I'm sure I'll give a plug for that later, but that just went live on Kickstarter. So very excited to see what happens with that project. Yeah, good to be here. Spotlight you need, is it two? Two paid credits, yeah. Paid credits, is it? Right. Yeah. For some reason, I thought voice work were a separate thing. So does voice work goes towards that as well?
00:01:15
Speaker
It absolutely does, yeah. um To be honest, I think that's one of the advantages of going into voice acting is, um and and this is something that ah Dan Lemon, who I believe appeared previously on on the podcast, and he had said this to me previously, I honestly do agree that voice acting is more accessible than potentially things such as screen because of the the advancements in technology over the last two years and also the pandemic has really led to a lot of people having the equipment that you need in order to get started ah just with the very bare bones in your house ready to go. So it means that you can, you know, get started, have a bit of a go and and get involved, which is which is great.
00:01:51
Speaker
Having said
Voice Acting Career: Entrepreneurship, Challenges, and Pandemic Influence
00:01:52
Speaker
that, you know, I didn't do ah voice acting because I wanted like an easy way in It was always, to be honest, something that i wanted to do. So yeah, very excited and very grateful to h Moon Publishing for those credits.
00:02:04
Speaker
Dan also mentioned on that episode that you kind of run voice acting almost like it's its own business. So I imagine it's not entirely all smooth sailing in doing that. Oh, yeah, absolutely. i mean, it is a small business, to be fair. I mean, you can argue that for for acting and performance generally. But ah you have to. You have to essentially. You are a one-man band. You are the performer. You're the audio engineer.
00:02:27
Speaker
You're the marketer. um You're the trainer to an extent because you need to you know be able to train yourself and and skill up. You're the the network person as well. You're responsible for the relationships and professional contacts that you have. And you're also the director, which is particularly difficult because you need to be able to understand the foibles in your own performance and and and address those and and improve those.
00:02:51
Speaker
And so being self-critical can be can be quite... both in an advantage and a disadvantage, I think. So yeah, yes it's it's a lot, but it's great. It's quite interesting what you say about the director thing, actually, because obviously if you're home recording something yourself, you are directing yourself. But then I assume there's some level of An actual director on most projects, is that right? It depends on the project. um So if you're doing, for instance, what we call like a triple A project. So those are like your really big franchise games. So we're talking like the Call of Duties of the world, like the Borderlands 4, those big projects that are backed by like the big studios like Sony and Microsoft, Bethesda, those sort of huge studios.
00:03:31
Speaker
um Yes, they would have a director and it depends on the particular project you're working on. You might be asked to come down and record in a studio or you might be asked to record remotely. You
Imposter Syndrome and Learning in Acting
00:03:41
Speaker
can be directed remotely. When I did my gaming reel, that was something that I did with a company called Planet Buster Demos.
00:03:48
Speaker
Two great guys and they were fantastic in in directing me. it was Ted and Lars, I think, from um from Planet Buster. And they did remote direction on the equipment that I'm recording on today.
00:03:59
Speaker
So it it can totally be done like that. It's when you don't have that remote direction that you can sometimes get in your own head a little bit. um I've had a lot of experiences where I've i've done some recording and I've just been like, oh, this is not good, but we're just going to go with what we've got. we're just goingnna go And then I send it off thinking, God. that was shit and then I hear back from them I'm like oh it's amazing I'm like oh all right okay thanks um I must be doing something right so yeah okay yeah I think it's always interesting in it because it's like I feel like there's always an element of when you hear yourself you're like I'm not great but then it's sort of like learning the difference between what is actually something that
Transition from IT to Voice Acting
00:04:37
Speaker
you should give another take and what is sort of self-doubt and putting yourself down
00:04:40
Speaker
I think there's a lot of imposter syndrome, especially in the performance area. um And it goes up through all levels from, you know, the the likes of you and me all the way right up to the greats. Like, ah trying to think of some examples now ah I was fortunate fortunate recently to meet Sam Bayard and she was absolutely incredible.
00:04:59
Speaker
And i believe suffers from from the same thing, you know, right the way up to people like, ah what's the gentleman that played Moriarty in um Sherlock? Andrew Scott? Yes, Andrew Scott, um I believe, suffers from the same things. And I think there's advantages and disadvantages. Advantages certainly in that you're constantly pushing for, you know, that that perfect performance.
00:05:19
Speaker
Disadvantages in realizing, you know, good enough might be, you know, absolutely brilliant. And you just can't see it because I think quite often you can devalue your own worth because it's you and you can quite often get in your own head and be like, Oh, you know, do i this is just me to be doing me. How does this have value? But actually it can have a lot of intrinsic value. And, um,
00:05:42
Speaker
It's all a journey that you end up going on, I think. That's something that comes up quite actually, the idea of good enough. And I think it's a really interesting one because obviously I feel like an immediate criticism of that line of thinking is, are you sort of letting yourself off easy or maybe you're not pushing yourself hard enough? But I think it's a really important idea because it's like it's not about doing any of those stuff it's about if you're somebody who is overly critically yourself it's about allowing yourself to get to a point where you you can do things without overthinking it and without you know sometimes if i've done writing it's like staring at a blank page and being like well i don't dare type anything because it's going to be terrible and it's like well actually just write down the thing that might be terrible there's a good chance it won't be as bad as you think
00:06:22
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. Like a vomit draft. Just get it out. And then you've got something that you can work with. Yeah. And it's kind of the idea that being the person who's not necessarily good at something is the first step to being the person who is good at something, you know, like yes not trying it.
Training and Skills Development in Voice Acting
00:06:39
Speaker
you're never going to be the person who's good at something. I think there's a cycle. I can't remember the name of it, but it's essentially like when you start something new, first, you know, you think that you know what you're doing and then you learn enough to know that you know that you don't know what you're doing.
00:06:51
Speaker
And then as you progress, you realize, oh, maybe I don't actually know what I'm doing. And then you get to the top and you realize, okay, maybe I actually do know what I'm doing. And Yeah. But first, you hit I think the the cornerstone of um ah progression is realizing to start your shit and you have things to learn and having that humility.
00:07:06
Speaker
And quite often I find that adulting is just going and asking a bigger adult what to do So, you know, crack on with that. It works a lot of areas of life. I think importantly, sometimes the bigger adult is younger than you, which is also something I'm learning because Dan, who we've mentioned a lot, is younger than me, but he teaches me every week and I feel like he's older than me.
00:07:27
Speaker
ah Sorry, Dan. um Could you tell us a bit about sorta yeah your background, how you came to voice acting and some of the other performance stuff you've done? Yeah, sure. So i um I was always into performance and I came from quite a musical family. So I um come from a family where everyone plays an instrument. So my mum and my dad, they were both sort of guitarists. My mum was lead vocals. My dad had the bass. They had a whole band.
00:07:53
Speaker
ah My brother plays many instruments, drums, piano, synth, sings, music producers. So growing up from a young age, it was always a case of, you know, Do you want to perform? What do you want to perform?
00:08:05
Speaker
And the family band was a Christian band, which I didn't really engage with that much. It wasn't really my thing. um But when I got to GCSE, it was a case of, you know, I can do music and drama now and I can pick these things. So I did that specifically.
00:08:18
Speaker
And I got an A in music, got a B in drama. I sort of like directed um and led the final piece for our drama group. And I'd sort of really felt like, you know, i this was something I really, really engaged with.
00:08:30
Speaker
But then came kind of a decision point at 16 where I basically had to choose, do I want to pursue science subjects at A level or do I want to go down the performance route? And at the time, I chose science because you've got to get a job. You've got to get a normal job and be a, you know, benefit to society or whatever.
00:08:49
Speaker
so um So I essentially went down that line in complete honesty because I just didn't think I was good enough. that was honest Honestly, that was what it was. And so I was like, well, you know, I'm not good enough, so I'm just going to go and get a normal job. And that's what I did. And so for um the next 15 years, that was
Reviving Creativity During the Pandemic
00:09:07
Speaker
A-levels, university. And then I sort of stumbled into a career in IT and and worked as an IT technician and worked my way up through the ranks of that.
00:09:16
Speaker
And it wasn't until kind of a couple of years ago during the pandemic, I had this big light bulb moment where I realized that I was fundamentally unhappy. And it was because the creative side of myself that I had always had that I loved was just completely pushed down.
00:09:32
Speaker
And I wasn't, it wasn't using it, but I wanted to, and that was coming out in a few different ways. So I would do things like I'd make machinima videos. When I was gaming, I'd make parodies. um I'd written several parodies about ah stuff at work, which is not not going to be of interest to anybody unless you're in cybersecurity and want to hear like a rap about Log4j, that sort of thing. But I really enjoyed it. And it was basically a case of like, I just couldn't contain it in the end. And it was just coming out in weird ways. So I kind of realized that this was actually something that I really should have done from the beginning. And I'd gotten to the point in my life where i could say to myself, what if you try, what if you try and see how good you are and stop being so afraid of failing at this?
00:10:14
Speaker
And let's just see what happens. So that's what I did. And that was when I decided, do you know what, we're just going to we're just going to go in for the Actors Forge. And so I sent an email to Dan and basically said, look, I want to be a voice actor. The voice acting came from seeing Neil Newborn in Baldur's Gate 3, which is just a phenomenal, inspiring performance. Meeting Neil Newborn at MCM Comic Con in Birmingham. Incredibly lovely human being. I would love to work with him if that opportunity ever arose.
00:10:39
Speaker
Just incredible performer, incredible actor. And he was so inspiring. And that game was so inspiring that it just made me want to work in this area. And I realized that I'd always had a good voice. I'd always been good at singing. I'd always had a lot of compliments on my voice at those times where I did presentations at work in a university where a lecturer literally turned to me and one day went, you've got an amazing voice. i was like, thanks.
00:11:03
Speaker
How's the presentation? Is that okay, I guess? So um it was like, well, I had obviously had this thing. Why don't I use it and see what happens?
Technology's Impact on Acting
00:11:13
Speaker
So um going into the Actors Forge and and that first day and did like a scene with Emily Bowman, who um is just ah a lovely human being. And Having that click and realizing that you could have that sort of connection, something just kind of clicked and made me just think maybe you are good at this.
00:11:33
Speaker
Maybe you can do this. Maybe this is something that can go somewhere and maybe let's see what happens if you try. And things have just kind of gone on from that moment. I spent a year at the Actors Forge with with Dan, um who is ah an amazing teacher and an incredible coach, and gave me loads of specific advice on voice acting.
00:11:50
Speaker
He referred me to Gravy for the Brain, which is a website that does training for voice actors. I would highly recommend anybody that wants to get into voice acting to do all of the training from that organisation.
00:12:00
Speaker
They also do community events. They do socials. They do conferences. There's one I'm going to in November, which is called Vox, which is down in London, which I would encourage anybody that wants to get into voice acting to go along. It's just a bit of a Christmas party this year. So I'm just going to go have a few drinks and yeah, that'll be a lot of fun. There's ah loads of other organizations. got to give a shout out to my voice coach, Anita Gilbert, who's from Speakeasy Voices.
00:12:23
Speaker
She did some sessions at Actors Forge as well on accents. Incredible voice coach, so knowledgeable, brilliant actress, works a lot in theatre. So ah she was incredibly supportive and really sort of helped me understand what I need to do in order to to further improve my instrument. Although I don't do the exercises as much as I'm supposed to.
00:12:42
Speaker
I'm sorry. Oh, one final shout out as well to Boho Arts, to um Lynn Huntley and Ian McLaughlin, who are two amazing individuals that run the ah School of Improv in Newcastle, um who are fantastic in... I did the beginner's improv course with them right at the start because I wanted to kind of have that skill in there as well.
00:13:02
Speaker
Something else I'd highly recommend for anybody that's going to go into acting or voice acting is it's not acting, in the same way that you say, you you know, we improvising acting is a different skill set, but it's an incredibly useful skill set to have and learn. So I would 100% encourage anybody to check those guys out. they're They're brilliant as well. So
Improvisation and Character Creation in Voice Acting
00:13:19
Speaker
from then, it kind of got to a point at the start of this year where I just kind of like, I got a ah role in theatre. I played Mina in Dracula, the radio play. And I kind of got to the point where I was like, okay, well, now I'm just staying in the school because it's a bit of a safety net.
00:13:33
Speaker
At what point am I going to go okay, I need to take the safety rails off and actually start trying to trying to go into the business of this. And so that's really kind of like where this push came from this year. And and I've kind of been doing that since. And I've been very fortunate to get um the credits that I've got, especially with the involvement of Day After Day and the few others that have been mentioned. So yeah. There's a few other projects that I'm um just sort of starting to see if I can, you know, get involved with at the moment. To be honest, like lots of other ones that i'm I'm interested in doing some writing in the future and potential audio drama as well that I want to write. So I've got a couple of screenplays that I've already written and and certainly ideas that I want to explore in audio drama. So, yeah, it's all very exciting.
00:14:12
Speaker
And umm I'm very grateful to the people that have given me all of the help that I've had along the way. That's like proper amazing. It's like you decided you wanted to do something and then you did. So much of it. But also it seems like you've done... you've You've really... Like with the screenwriting, with it doing a bit theatre as opposed to just voice acting. It seems like you've really... ah I think I've spoke to you before and I didn't realise that at the time that voice acting had always been your plan.
00:14:35
Speaker
But it's also quite interesting... just how much you seem um but to just sort of see where it takes you and kind of try all sorts of different things. With going into the Actors Forge with the idea specifically of going into voice acting and also doing things like ah like the Boho Arts improv course, like there's parts of that that are really linked to voice acting, but also what is it that you're getting and from from doing those things that you can transfer into your voice acting? Because I imagine a lot of it is like a different discipline.
00:15:07
Speaker
I think some of it is, yeah, I think a lot of it is heavily interconnected. And I think one of the mistakes that people can make when they go into voice acting is for a start calling it voice acting.
00:15:18
Speaker
Ultimately, I'm an actor. um And as such, no, no, no, I did it first. I did it first. And that's something that that's been brought up a few times. Yeah, we can say voice acting. So what else is the other thing? Is it like face acting? And the thing is, it it does apply because when you don't do those things, when you only have your voice, when you don't do things like movements, gestures, ah when you aren't using techniques from Stanislavski, like emotional recall, that sort of thing, then it doesn't lead to ah and not as good a performance because you are, um there's inside out and outside in in terms of acting techniques where um you are
00:15:57
Speaker
doing the thing in order in order to feel or feeling in order to do the thing, if that kind of makes sense, one of the two. I, to be honest,
Performance Capture and Technical Challenges
00:16:04
Speaker
can do both. But the important thing is knowing that both exist and that you can choose one or the other and having a toolbox. And I think one of the The biggest piece of ah advice I picked up from Neil Newborn at the start was he said, before you go and do voiceover work, go and learn to be an actor, go and do stage, go and do screen, go and do um gaming, go and do like all of these other things because they will make you a better performer in the voice area.
00:16:30
Speaker
There is also sort of motion capture and performance capture as well, which will then um further add to that skill set. And it is it is kind of a different skill set.
00:16:41
Speaker
Something Amelia Tyler said recently was stage is about the body, screen is about the face, Mo-cap and performance cap incorporates all of these things. Voice is obviously about the voice, but in performance capture, which is where you have, you wear a suit and um you have these sensors attached to you and you are then put what in in what's called a volume, which is surrounded by cameras and then they are capturing the movement of your whole body.
00:17:06
Speaker
You can also capture facial movements with that. They generally have like an iPhone on a head rig that will then have a camera pointed at your face. so they're capturing your face as well, and also a microphone that's capturing your speech.
00:17:17
Speaker
So everything about that performance is captured. So unlike stage where you can just focus on your body and unlike screen where you can just focus on your face, you can put that camera anywhere in that volume.
00:17:27
Speaker
So you have to consider all of it. You have to consider the smallest movements of your facial expressions and and the tone of your voice and every part of that performance because it is all encompassing. As such, that's why having those skills will make you a better performer in this field. That's what I wanted to build up. I wanted this toolbox of things that I could go and pick from so that when I had to deliver something in particular, I could be like, right, I'm going to use this mental spanner.
00:17:55
Speaker
It's funny that you say that all the pressure is on the voice. I've learned from editing podcasts recently that these microphones pick up every little yeah the number of of breathing in that I've had to edit recently.
00:18:09
Speaker
yeah like yeah Sometimes it's quite scary. You're like, oh my God, is my breathing okay? Yeah. Oh, absolutely. now And that's one of the things that you also have to do in in um voice is generally when you're starting out, and certainly for a lot of the time, you are also the audio editor.
00:18:24
Speaker
So, you know, you're responsible for um for doing that, for editing out breaths, if you want to go down that route, for editing out mouth clicks and um any other weirdness that occurs, um random cars that are passing by.
00:18:38
Speaker
doing compression, making it sound all all nice, that sort of thing. I'm very fortunate to find some software that
Typecasting in Voice Acting vs. Traditional Acting
00:18:44
Speaker
helps a lot with that. And that has been an absolute godsend that I don't have to spend many, many hours editing out mouth clicks individually, which is really good.
00:18:54
Speaker
Mouth clicks and plosives as well, which another one, which hopefully you haven't picked up because I've got the pop filter on. But a plosive is when you get the pah in the microphone. Yeah, the pah. I guess something I'm quite curious about when when it comes to um I know what word to use. No, I'm not allowed to say voice acting. It's fine, it's fine. When it comes to acting of the voice. Vocal work. Voice acting. Vocal work. Vocal work, right, yeah. I guess something that Dan talks about the Actors Forge a lot is typecasting and the idea that that is what helps you get those jobs. But in the stuff that we're talking about there, a lot of that is based on how you look.
00:19:31
Speaker
How does that differ when it comes to vocal work? It entirely depends on the performer. um So myself, I can do three accents. I can do this one now, which is kind of like a northern neutral.
00:19:41
Speaker
um I can do ah kind of a modern RP and I can do a general American, which I have not prepared and I'm terrified to do now. So I'm not going to do it because... ah That's okay. I'll freak myself out if I do it. no And the thing is, I do plan to learn more and add more. It's, and you know, and adding more tools to the toolbox.
00:19:59
Speaker
In terms of typecast, it's a lot less of a problem because if you're learning those skills in order to manipulate your voice, then, you know, you can, I mean, take Nancy Cartwright.
00:20:10
Speaker
who's played an 11-year-old boy for 20 years, voice actor of Bart Simpson. She's phenomenal. And I believe she also has a whole bunch of other characters as well. I think she plays Ralph. you know So she can't really be typecast because she's just so skillful that she can play down to that age. She can play a different gender. So she can do a lot of different things. And I think that's one of the major advantages and also things that can really set you free as ah as a performer.
00:20:32
Speaker
And another Neil Newborn quote here, he had a career in in television where he was in Holyoaks quite extensively. And then that just came to a halt all of a sudden for for no real understandable reason.
00:20:43
Speaker
And he realized that what he needed to be able to do was to take his face off, which sounds weird, but that's what um motion capture and performance capture allowed him to do. Because take the face off, he can be anybody. And that removes the whole typecasting problem.
00:20:59
Speaker
um and just expands the limits of what you can do by by so much. And then it's just down to your own skillset, your own training and what you're going to put in in order to pull out um further accessibility for you as a as a performer. So my kind of you know strategy going forward, i want to learn some more accents. I want to get better at the ones that I can do. i want to um expand just my performance generally. I feel like I do want to kind of get back in a classroom of some sort and just do a little bit more training. But yeah, it's...
00:21:28
Speaker
It's just down to the skills that you have and and the performance you can do. So, yeah, I'd highly recommend it for anybody that just wants to... If if they find that they're being um typecast in that way and put in a box, just get in front of a microphone and see that box disappear.
00:21:45
Speaker
For some
Exploring Creative Projects Beyond Voice Acting
00:21:46
Speaker
reason, the thing that comes to my mind is I feel like I always hear a lot of like fantasy voices when I look into vocal work. And I'm like, it just sort of seems like... I don't know. there's There's definitely a visual thing that disappears um when when that just becomes a ah voice thing as opposed to, I don't i don't know.
00:22:01
Speaker
I probably need to wear a wig or something to be in a visual fantasy. To be honest, it does help. So i did a um I did some recording a few weeks ago and I have a little model of Thorn from Destiny 2 on my desk.
00:22:15
Speaker
So I just got the model of Thorn and just held it. I think it was when I was doing Rune of Demons. So it's just like, I'm just going to hold a gun while I do this performance, just to see if I can just get a little bit more edginess in my voice and a little bit, you know, because some of the characters um needed to have a lack of remorse.
00:22:31
Speaker
So I just thought, you know, let's just hold the weapon, see if that seeps in it a little bit. Ah, okay, so then that becomes sort of what you were saying before, though, as well, it's like understanding some of those those acting acting techniques and using them. The thing that comes to mind, I don't know i don't know how familiar ah you are with Batman the Animated Series.
00:22:46
Speaker
Oh, I haven't seen I'm afraid. But um that were always a thing, that it was a big deal that the cast all did that, standing up and in the same room together, which was not done at the time, I guess. Oh, I can totally see how that would make a difference. Because one of the biggest issues um as a performer when you're going into voice, and this is something that a lot of people will initially struggle with, is right now I'm sat in a booth on my own. And yeah, we've got like a video link here and we can see each other's face, which is kind of helpful um for the audience at home.
00:23:16
Speaker
um But... You know, there's still a little bit of a delay. I can't see, you know, the hairs of your eyebrows, so I can't see the minute um movements of your facial expressions that might further influence my response.
00:23:30
Speaker
um And as such, that doesn't mean that your performance isn't quite as good. And it also drains the energy from you as a performer as well. So having um the ability to have your cast in the same room to be able to bounce off of each other, just from like a perspective of of Meisner um and being able to have that energy from the other performer, I think will massively increase ah performance and and just be of of complete benefit. So yeah, I can totally see how that would have um resulted in a better ah series for everybody. Yeah, I think even just things like, ah like ah i'm sorry to go into video when when this is all audio, but even just things like my ah my image on the screen is relatively bright, but clear that I'm in a dark room. But like from my point of view, I'm like, it's so dark in this room.
00:24:15
Speaker
And it's even just things like like the understanding of the room that the person you're talking to is in kind of affects how you relate and speak to a person. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
00:24:27
Speaker
So um I wanted to talk a little bit about ah just the sort of projects you've been involved in. I guess day after day is probably a good place to start. Yeah, sure.
00:24:37
Speaker
Has that started? Kickstarting now. I have a feeling by the time the episode goes up, it might be over. but So it's been... no. So, well, so I think it's on for another 21 days from today. um And I believe they're currently 75% funded, but the voice acting for the narration is a stretch goal.
00:24:54
Speaker
So if anybody's got some spare cash and wants to throw ah as as a bit of a bone, then... um that would allow me to be the narrator on that project as well as the vocalist on the project. So I got involved with that project because I did a demo track with a composer about six months ago. And I got a message from that composer, you know, it did the demo track. It was just like, it was like, oh,
00:25:18
Speaker
And a little bit later, they just sort messaged me back and was like, oh yeah, you remember that demo that we did? I put it in a competition and it won. So would you like a hundred quid and we'll record it properly? I was like, ah yeah, yeah.
00:25:31
Speaker
Okay. Yeah. I would, I would, I would in fact like a hundred quid. um So, ah so that was kind of the start of it. And then through that, I met the development team and I did the narration for their Kickstarter video as well. And they essentially decided If they can reach the stretch goal, I will be the narrator on that project, which is very exciting. Hopefully it will reach the stretch goal. If it doesn't, then, well, that'll be disappointing. But um I'm still very grateful for the two credits that I have got from that project.
00:25:58
Speaker
um And it will still be a great game, even if even if that doesn't come to fruition. It is an RPG, a visual novel, ah where you are playing somebody who is trapped in a repeating time loop and has the option of two love interests.
00:26:14
Speaker
And you can choose which one that you want to go with. I believe one is a nobleman and the other one is a pirate. So, um yeah, ah dependent on what you fancy, I guess. ah so ah So, yeah, so the um the track that we we ah eventually did was um ah produced and sent over and that's now live on Kickstarter and that's essentially going to be the title track for the game.
00:26:36
Speaker
There was also a bit of creativity on my part because ah as we're recording that track, I sort of realized, you know, we could probably put some lyrics together for this and and produce two versions. So I wrote lyrics for the track and ran it past them and they loved it. So they actually ended up with two for the price of one.
00:26:52
Speaker
They got the um track, which is just for the title screen. And then they got a proper full song as well with lyrics, which I don't know where they're going to use. They might use it in credits. But yeah, I'm pretty proud of it all in all. Some definitely going the extra mile from you there.
00:27:07
Speaker
Well, yeah the thing is, you never know what it's going to lead to because initially I only had one credit from that project. And then it was the thing that led to me being on Spotlight was a couple of days ago when they launched on Kickstarter. They basically came to me and said, we're really grateful for...
00:27:21
Speaker
what you did for the game and what you did for the project as such we want to pay you market rate for this other work that you did and send us an invoice so I sent them an invoice you know so um so that was what got the second credit
Game Jams and Rapid Project Development
00:27:35
Speaker
so uh very very grateful and and that was you know completely on them and and that's why I'm i'm so thankful for them for having me on board Sorry, just to make sure I've understood. So is the second credit... So that's not the narration. The narration's... Is the narration not done?
00:27:51
Speaker
No. That's only dependent on the stretch goal. It is dependent on the stretch goal. The stretch goal is quite large because the narration for the project is extremely large. It's a 200,000-word script. So um if they reach that stretch goal, then that will be a fully-fledged, massive role that I will be doing. So essentially, i did... um I did voiceover for their Kickstarter campaign um and I did various samples of the narration to go on the Kickstarter board so that was what they credited for me for that. Oh, okay. Right. Sorry. Okay.
00:28:20
Speaker
No, it's alright. Have you seen the script for the narration? Is it is it a lot of sort branching paths and things like that? It is. It is very reminiscent of Baldur's Gate 3. So when i did um I did various reads of the script for them, I read the script and was like, oh, this this is so Baldur's Gate 3. And I was just like, I'm very familiar with that game.
00:28:39
Speaker
So i wish i just did it. I just channeled Amelia Tyler's narration style and they absolutely loved it. So that was essentially how how that came about. So hopefully if if that Kickstarter gets met, then I can go ahead and and be that narrator because I love the project. I think it's fantastic. I would love to play that role.
00:28:57
Speaker
Aside from it, you know, being and a major role, I just honestly really like the project. It really sounds like it would add a lot to the project. It sounds like it would be amazing. Hopefully the stretch goal is achieved. Yeah, we'll see how it goes. Some of the other projects you've worked on, Loot Magic and Ruined Demons. Yeah, so Loot Magic was a bit of a mad one.
00:29:16
Speaker
um So ah one of the things that I like to do is I hang out on a lot of Discord servers where people do game jams. For anybody not familiar, a game jam is where... You create a team and you aim to build a video game in a very short period of time. So we're talking like some game jams can be like 24 hours even. Some can be sort of seven days. Some can be a month.
00:29:35
Speaker
It depends on each one. And I hang out in these servers because they quite often need voice actors. And I do paid work. I also do free work if I like the project. And I just got an email one day that said, I can't remember how I got your email address, but we love your voice and would really...
00:29:53
Speaker
be grateful if you would consider acting in this project. However, we are submitting in two days. So if you want to be involved, we're going to need to record pretty quickly. i was like, oh, well, bloody hell. Okay. All right. um so ah So yeah, very quickly sort of got behind the mic and they sent me a list of lines. It wasn't long. It was just like two pages of lines. And so I just blasted them all out. I was like, okay, let's just get it done. Let's get it. And it was one of those occasions, as I was sort of saying before, I was just throwing them out and i was thinking, this is terrible.
00:30:21
Speaker
They're going to hate this. I was, ah, and I was like really sort of freaking out. And then, you know, I sent all the files over and they were like, this is fantastic. We love this. was like, okay, all right. Okay, well, I must be doing something right.
00:30:35
Speaker
So I thought, well, okay, well, it's it's done. It's fine. I'm, you know, it's it's all right. We'll just see how it goes. So the project goes live on the Game Jam and every single comment is this voice acting is incredible. And I was like, oh my God.
00:30:49
Speaker
Yeah. I've come in at the 11th hour. They've got a whole art, music and development department that's just been completely blown aside by me swanning in and saying things about spells at the last minute. So I felt a little bit bad, but apparently the game did very well in the jams. So again, very grateful for a team to bring me in at the last minute. So I'll probably be doing more game jams with them in the future.
00:31:11
Speaker
Just because, you know, i will i i do those kinds of projects because I like the project and and that's what it kind of comes down to. And as you've also may have now gathered, unlike, say, if you're going to go and do screen or if you're going to go and do stage, that took about three hours of my time.
00:31:27
Speaker
in total from, you know, getting that script through, recording it, doing the audio editing and sending off. So it's really, really fast paced. Whereas if you're going to be involved in like theatre or um if you're going to be in screen.
00:31:40
Speaker
So, you know, if you're if you're going to be in like film or TV, you're going to be on that set for, you know, at least a couple of days, couple of hours. And you'll be hanging around a lot. it's a lot of
Preparation Practices for Voice Work
00:31:48
Speaker
waiting. Whereas voice, you know, you know, you could do multiple jobs in a day like that.
00:31:52
Speaker
As long as your marketing is going you getting getting your business out there and getting yourself out there. So it's a lot easier to get those kinds of engagements and get those kinds of castings. Because, you know, ultimately, I'm just sat in my booth at home and, you know, can even stop for a cup of tea occasionally. How does that affect sort of preparing and learning lines? Is this a stupid question? Do you learn the lines or do you just read them as you're recording?
00:32:15
Speaker
You don't. You don't learn lines for most voice work. However, there is an exception to this, and that is motion capture. So if you're doing motion capture, performance capture, yes, you have to learn the lines because it's essentially like stage, screen and voice combined.
00:32:29
Speaker
um So if you're doing that kind of work, yeah, you've got to learn the lines in the exact same way you would do for stage performance. the screen but for voice acting you' you'll have the script up either on a monitor which is what I've got in front of me or maybe a paper for the amount that you go through just doing it on a monitor is probably a lot easier um like a lot of the actors that I know have like an iPad mount in their studio and they'll just have the iPad in front because um the question in in the booth is generally what can we take away not what can we add we don't want a lot of things in the booth because we want to have like a really nice audio environment Yeah, so I'll just have, I'll have the lines up on the screen and um I'll be, I'll have like a read through and I'll have noted them as well and added some notation. So things like places I want to breathe, for instance, any words I think I want to put any particular emphasis on.
00:33:13
Speaker
inflection as well so if i want to inflect a certain way so if i want to go up i want to go down or if you want to you know sort of stay the same you do you do sort of do notation a pdf ah editor is definitely helpful for that but uh no don't have to learn the lines and to be honest the way that this goes you can't generally so if i was invited to participate in a triple a project i might get sent the lines the day before That's how it would go. And they wouldn't be in ah a sort of a screen ah a screenplay format or a script format.
00:33:44
Speaker
They'd probably be in an Excel spreadsheet. So it's a different kind of thing to get used to. Or what can also happen is you don't get sent the lines at all, or you don't get sent the character at all. And you get to the studio and then you are expected to read what the character is about, come up with a performance and deliver it within an hour.
00:34:03
Speaker
Yeah. So it's like, so it's incredibly intense. So you've got to be like, you've got to be on it. You've got to have that skill set up there so that you're going to deliver a performance that they're, that they're paying for. Cause you know, time's money.
00:34:14
Speaker
And they want to get as much out of you as possible in the time that they have you for. um They might also do things like, you know, you get through everything that you're going to do that day and then they'll just be like, oh, we've got this little character. do you want have a crack at this?
00:34:25
Speaker
And then, you know, you've earned another credit in that same sort of time just because they're trying to stretch as much as possible in in terms of the time they have for you. So it is very intense. It is not just a case of buy a microphone.
00:34:37
Speaker
rock up and say some stuff you have to have the skills i think definitely um we are saying sometimes you'll show up and literally have to have to come up with the character and the performance in an hour that is like that is yeah quite intense in fact another neil newborn example of that is he did detroit become human and he was originally i think cast to play the character i'm not sure if it was i can't remember which way round it was but he was cast to play one character and they offered him a second And the way they offered him the second was as they finished the read of this character, they handed him a script to said, do you want take a crack at that one? um And he was like, oh, okay. And then took the script and then they looked and and were just sort of expecting. And he was like, oh, wait, you want me to do this now? ah Like this second?
00:35:18
Speaker
and He was like, okay, give me a minute to just have a quick read. And so he read down the script and then um based on that that quick flick through, he then gave performance and that was how he got a second character.
00:35:29
Speaker
So yeah, that's the way that it goes. It is very fast paced. Wow. I'd like to ask a little bit about sort of balancing with other commitments. is it Do you still work like a full-time job or have you fully gone to doing the voice acting? Sorry,
Pursuing Passion Projects and Overcoming Fear
00:35:41
Speaker
forgot the vocal work.
00:35:43
Speaker
It's all good. Yeah, um so I do at the moment, but um as of December, I think December 8th, I won't. um So I will be ahll be full-time, but I plan to sort of dip in and out for a little while. I'm very fortunate to be in the position of my IT t career that I can essentially go and do a bit of consultancy.
00:36:01
Speaker
So that's what I'm going to be going to be doing. Just do a bit of that and then come back and and get on with the voice acting and creativity because I'm just at the point now where ah I feel like that is needed for my soul.
00:36:14
Speaker
I need to spend time doing things that add to the world. Instead of adding to wallets of people that don't need any more money, you know? So i want to I want to add things to the world that are meaningful to people and that make positive and good changes in the world. I mean, we still have a bit of some time, but i feel like that would be such a good a good place to end.
00:36:39
Speaker
I almost don't want to carry on from there. So I guess a couple of things. so ah Soon I think we'll move on and just sort of talk about general video games and ah but the sort of media that inspires you. But I guess it's almost going a little bit back to be the beginning just off what you said. Something I thought were really interesting about you explaining sort of your background is... A few people have said they never considered performing to be a possible job when they were younger. And I think it's almost like it's slightly different with you, where it seemed like it was a huge part of your life. And it's almost like you had to cut out because that's what you're supposed to do, which seems just sort of slightly different to I didn't quite realize it were and we a job. It's you just sort of for those those years in between picking a lane and coming back to things a couple of years ago. is it what Did you just sort of fully not engage with anything like that along the way? um Not really, no. I mean, I did. So there were there were a couple of occasions. So a few years ago when I was at uni, I was asked if I could sing at a charity concert to try and raise some cash. So i think the uni were trying to raise money to send a group of the students to Zambia to build a sports facility for a school out there.
00:37:48
Speaker
not sure if it was myself or somebody else, came up with the idea of doing um a little concert to raise some cash. I hadn't sung in a while and um I just figured that it's free for them anyway. You know, what's the worst that could happen?
00:38:01
Speaker
so So I just thought I'd just go for it and see what happens. So I did and I sung some jazz. I sung some pop. i sung a bit of like a couple of comedy songs as well from a band called Fascinating Aida, which is hilarious. You've probably seen their Christmas song.
00:38:17
Speaker
which I won't sing because if I sing on here, it will probably get you demonetized. Yeah. I mean, i'm not I'm not monetized. I'm not monetized. You definitely won't be if I sing the song about Christmas.
00:38:28
Speaker
um So and then after I just sort of got so many compliments and I was just like, why aren't I doing this more often? And then I got another request to do another charity concert. So I didn't i did another one, but that was just solely jazz.
00:38:40
Speaker
And we sold out two nights. And it was just like, whoa, hang on a minute. And, you know my best friend is ah a lovely lady called Minnie. And um she was always like, why don't you sing more? You know, you've got this amazing ability. Why just why? Why aren't you doing this?
00:38:55
Speaker
And it just kind of like. Actually, I do ah do know specifically what happened. ah One of my friends, who is still my friend, though, no longer or my colleague, joined work, a gentleman called Chris Clark.
00:39:06
Speaker
Chris used to be a music teacher before he became a project manager in IT. t And ah Chris basically... It reignited my passion for music just by sort of general conversations about music and reminding reminding me ah of of the things that I did like to sort of try and mess about with. And and again, I ask the question, what happens if I actually try?
00:39:26
Speaker
So not if I coast, but if I actually put energy into this and see what comes out. and And that was how we got various parodies. That was how we got like the Log4J parody.
00:39:36
Speaker
I did a cover for for Pride Month. I did a cover of ah George Michael outside to like a sort of like a jazz background, which was a lot of fun. And then I started writing my own songs and I i wrote a whole bunch of songs. um And I fully produced one of them, which is called Shade of Hurt, which I really, really love and means a lot to me.
00:39:53
Speaker
And it was just kind of like, why aren't I doing this? And in the end, i ended up doing some therapy. And um the answer that I got was because I was afraid.
00:40:04
Speaker
And that was what it boiled down to. It boiled down to fear. And fear had essentially paralyzed me from wanting to do any of this thing, any of these things for 20 years. And if there's a message that I can give to your audience, don't let the fear rob you of the joy and your life.
00:40:22
Speaker
don't Don't let it do that. Life's too short. We have a very finite amount of time. on on this planet. Don't get to the end of it and have a regret of something that you didn't do.
00:40:32
Speaker
just Just do it. And, you know, if it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out. But at least you tried and you know. so So, yeah, so this career is me trying to find out whether or not it'll work.
00:40:45
Speaker
I'll let you know if it does. Oh, okay. I really, really, I'm going to, I really, going to end the regular interview there. Cause that's, no, but that, that is, yeah, I think that is just super, super important. It is. It's the thing that I feel like I'm always saying, but it's better for something to go badly than it is to not do it. It's actually almost a good thing to try something and for it to go bad. Cause it means, it means you actually tried it and that's really important. So I guess just for the last sort of little end, little 10 minutes, I'd just like to talk about the media that inspires your work. I mean, there's a few
Inspirations and Influences in Creative Work
00:41:23
Speaker
video games you'd mentioned, but I mean, it can be sort pretty loose if there's anything else you want mention. So you'd mentioned Baldur's Gate, Bioshock and Returnal. Yeah. I was very fortunate recently in Brighton at Develop Conference. I went to that in July.
00:41:37
Speaker
to ah to hear Jane Perry, who is the BAFTA winner from Returnal. She plays Celine. Brilliant, brilliant story. It's one of those that sort of flies under the radar if you're not paying attention, told in the artwork of the game, told in the performance of the audio.
00:41:53
Speaker
um told in the various cutscenes dotted throughout as well. Oh, just stupendous story. Incredibly well written and very well deserved BAFTA. Baldur's Gate 3, we have to recognise that because it is essentially like it's like the gold standard for voice acting is...
00:42:08
Speaker
So phenomenal. A thousand characters played by 250 voice actors, of which the core cast is now sort of superstars in their area. I've mentioned Neil Newborn multiple times, but, you know, Samantha Bayard, Devorah Wilde, Tim Downey, just incredible, incredible actors. Oh, I was also fortunate to meet Dave Jones, who plays Halston in Baldur's Gate 3 at Develop. i'm Very fortunate to have a beer with him.
00:42:34
Speaker
ah He was absolutely... Just stupendous, lovely, lovely human. Got a big bear hug off him. um So, ah yeah, very um absolutely brilliant, amazing people.
00:42:46
Speaker
I think you mentioned Bioshock. Bioshock was probably one of the first games where I started paying attention to narrative in gaming because that narrative was so damn good. And um it holds as an example as to why narrative in gaming is important um and why it's important in gaming specifically.
00:43:04
Speaker
And that's because the immersion in that story is such that I don't think it could be translated to screen because with the best of your ability, for the majority of the things in screen, with possible exceptions of things like In Space with Markiplier, you're not immersed in the story. You're watching it from a third person perspective.
00:43:22
Speaker
In a game, it's a first-person perspective a lot of the time, and you are taking on that character. And as such, the way that the story is structured, it is not possible to have that experience from the perspective of film or even theatre. You have to be in the story.
00:43:38
Speaker
And for anybody that hasn't played Bioshock 1, Would you kindly go and do it? And that's all that I will say on that. Okay. Okay. not, I've not, you know what? It's like weirdly, you know, ah I consider myself someone that plays games quite a bit and I've not played any of these three games.
00:43:54
Speaker
Oh, well, when you, when you, when you get to it, you will understand, would you kindly more than ok ok it' saying it is very important to the story, but don't look it up. It's a major spoiler.
00:44:06
Speaker
ah im right I want to give one last shout out though to another bit of media that's been really inspiring to me recently and that is ah if you haven't seen Ted Lasso go and watch Ted Lasso I've had a rough few weeks in all honesty and um many say many years ago was probably about two years ago actually though it feels like many years ago with pandemic but um i was recommended ted lasso as something to pick you up when you're feeling down and uh the the the message of of ted lasso is one about becoming a better human and seeing the good in people and how you can evolve as an individual
00:44:45
Speaker
um No matter where you are at in your journey in life, you can strive to be better. um And the performances in that um are just incredible. I now have a lifelong love of Hannah Waddingham thanks to that.
00:44:58
Speaker
um She is oh she's so incredible in that and just her how her character develops from... ah you know I don't even want to say that she is the villain of the piece because I think the way that Ted Lasso is structured is they're not necessarily you know kind of structuring villains as such. that' They're showing a lot of humanity and that humans are complicated and that people can have all of these grey areas that that mean that they change throughout their lives. So Ted Lasso, Hannah Waddingham and my favourite character in that series by far is ah Roy Kent.
00:45:32
Speaker
Yeah. Or I can't. It was amazing. um It's interesting, in the thing about, um is it is it Rebecca, character's called? Yeah. Because it's almost like the the structure of the show and Ted Lasso, like the way he functions, it's almost like to reject the idea that she's ah she's a villain. It's like in another show that with a different theme, she would be the villain. But it like that's the sort of driving force of the show in a way people are good. And if yeah if you give them a chance.
00:46:01
Speaker
ah it's It's really important. It's a really important message. And they do even say it out loud when Ted gets to the point of of talking to the therapist ah about his about his own issues.
00:46:13
Speaker
I think it's something along the lines of, I'm never going to let anyone pass me by without realising that they might be hurting inside. So, you know, you might find somebody that is a bit of an arsehole to you sometime in the next few days and, you know, be curious, not judgmental.
00:46:27
Speaker
Have you watched all of it? Have you finished series three? Okay. Yeah, i just even... like It seems to set up a big collision with... a Is it nathanel Nathaniel? Nathan. Yeah, Nate. Nate, that's the one, yeah yeah. And even just the way approach to that situation, it is sort of very...
00:46:44
Speaker
understanding I still love the dark scene in the first series that's like that's like literally just the ah put that on sometimes when I need to feel need to feel good about things it is a brilliant scene and he's like he's in fact actually the only real antagonist in the whole series despite many people being assholes is Anthony Head's character um of Rupert. He, oh man, he plays that character so well that you loathe that individual.
00:47:13
Speaker
And um yeah, I don't think he has a redeeming quality. Like through through the whole series, it's the only one that you really um sort of just really kind of despise.
00:47:24
Speaker
I think maybe in like the second to last episode, Rebecca kind of like allows him to be seen as a human for a tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny period. And in that small moment, he there tries to lean in to kiss her to cheat on his wife a second time.
00:47:37
Speaker
And it's just like, you have no redeeming qualities whatsoever. Like, it is so interesting because it's like he's he's the character that's rejecting the almost the thesis of the show. And that's what makes him a villain. It's like he could have redeeming characteristics and he rejects the the rules that that govern the world he exists Yep. So that's my,
Current Interests and Personal Promotions
00:47:57
Speaker
I think those are my, those are my media bits. I mean, I could talk for ages about things that I love, but I'm going to go and watch the rest of Ted Lasso after this. So I'd encourage everybody else. You just told me finished it? I was talking about series three. Oh, no.
00:48:09
Speaker
I'm watching it like a third time. Oh, okay. Right. Okay. Okay. I just, I need the extra right now. and I need the extra joy. so okay yeah. Super quickly. Have you played Hollow Knight Silksong?
00:48:19
Speaker
No. No. Okay. Nevermind. I've been playing it and it makes me, it's upsetting me. Actually, the only thing, so the only game that I'm really into at the moment is I got into Elite Dangerous recently and I've been playing a lot of that.
00:48:32
Speaker
And um that's like a flight simulator. There is a story underneath. Actually, funny, fun fact, I realized the other day Neil Newborn has been in that as well. and Because I stumbled on like ah ah an audio log and he was reading i was like,
00:48:44
Speaker
this is an american accent but i'm pretty damn certain this is neil newborn and it was it actually was but no i uh i was a bit bored so i flew to the center of the galaxy um and earned a lot of money along the way so yeah that's what i like to do when i'm bored just fly to the center of the galaxy that is that is my current obsession and it will certainly sink a lot of time if you get past the learning curve Okay, that's Elite Dangerous. Elite Dangerous, yeah. Okay. Well, thank you for talking to me. Would you like to tell us where we can find you and plug anything that you'd like to plug? So um I'm Pam Jackson Actor on all of the platforms, um apart from Twitch where I am Pam Jackson Act, but um I will hopefully do something on there in the future.
00:49:24
Speaker
um My website is poundjackson.co.uk. And if you feel like tossing a penny to your narrator, go to Kickstarter and have a look at the day after day Kickstarter, which at the moment is 75% funded.
00:49:36
Speaker
If you get us to the stretch goal, that would be greatly appreciated. If not, that's okay. It's all good. But I'm really proud of that project, even as it is, and um ah look forward to whatever comes next. But yeah, if you have any voice acting needs or just want to say hi, hit me up.
00:49:52
Speaker
It's all good. and thank you for talking to me and I'll see you later thanks very much what makes you tick is hosted produced and edited by me Brian Watson thank you to Craig Pearson for designing the show logo the theme music is silent movie 91 by Sasha End thank you once again to Pam for speaking to me for this episode and join me next week for my conversation with Adam Widrington one of the hosts of the Newcastle United podcast true faith and keep an eye out for a preview of that conversation by following at makes you tick pod on Instagram thanks for listening