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Adam Widdrington: The True Faith Podcast, Fan Media and doing yourself Justice!
29 Plays7 months ago
This week I’m talking to Adam Widdrington.
Adam is one of the Hosts of the Newcastle United Podcast True Faith which we discuss in depth. We also talk about his background in performing arts, and the work he did before joining True Faith on his own Youtube Channel The Toon Network. Finally, we also discuss Interstellar!
Show Art is by Craig Pearson.
Theme Music is 'Silent Movie 91' by Sascha Ende.
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Transcript
Introduction to What Makes You Tick
00:00:10
Speaker
Hello and welcome to What Makes You Tick, a conversation podcast where I, Ryan Watson, talk to Northeast artists, that's actors, writers, directors, filmmakers or anyone else that piques my curiosity about what they do, how they make it work and the media that inspires them to do that
Meeting Adam Widtrennan
00:00:22
Speaker
work.
00:00:22
Speaker
Today ah have Adam Widtrennan. Adam is a podcaster. He's part of True Faith, a Newcastle United podcast where he's been a host since 2018. He's also done his own podcasts in the past. He comes from a performing arts background and over the years he's spent time working in a number of arts organizations. Adam, welcome to the show. Lovely to be here, Ryan. Thanks for having me. I always start off by saying, have I missed anything? Anything important in introducing you?
00:00:45
Speaker
No, that was that was great. that was That was a great description. I feel elevated from that. Thanks. that That's good. I'm glad. I'm glad. Maybe I'll stop asking that because everyone says the same thing. So thank you for coming on the show. You've done The Impossible and you got me to listen to a podcast about football.
00:01:02
Speaker
wow i've just been listening i've just been listening i know who eddie howe is now didn't i knew the name before i couldn't have told you well ah these are big leaps ryan i love i know i'm uh i'm coming along so i wanted to have you on the show because we've worked together at an unnamed place since 2022 and you mentioned many like years ago that you did a podcast and I kind of just wanted to ask you a bunch of questions about it. And that's kind of why I'm doing this podcast is just there's all sorts of people who do all these sort of interesting things. um
00:01:35
Speaker
People who I'm referring to as artists. I don't know. Sometimes I don't feel like I get the chance to ask people about the stuff they do in regular interactions. So kind of just wanted to ask you about all this stuff.
Adam's Performing Arts Journey
00:01:47
Speaker
Well, it's a great format to do it. There's only so much time you can waste in an office, isn't there? That's it, yeah. Talking about personal stuff. yeah, this is a bit more credible, isn't it? Yes, it's like permission. It's like I have permission to ask you questions now. So I guess just to start off, can you tell us bit about your background? Because I know...
00:02:04
Speaker
Yeah, come from a performing arts background. did Did that start with sort of university? Did you do anything before then? Yeah, so I've i've always kind of been into drama and performing arts. I think it really properly started year six and and and and I took the lead in a Joseph and his amazing Technicolor dream coat with a folded, ah you know, those parachutes that you, those colored parachutes you get for like parachute games.
00:02:32
Speaker
So it was one of those folded in half to create this huge like cape. It looked pretty good for the budget that we were clearly on in a primary school in in the northeast um but yeah i kind of that was like my first lead role and i quite i know i felt comfortable standing up on stage um performing singing i had to sing into a wireless mic as well um it continued into secondary school ah got a couple of parts in some big plays and it was shakespeare play and alice in wonderland and bits like that um there's a couple of shakespeare plays actually
00:03:04
Speaker
ah But it was clear that I found a lot of enjoyment doing sort of improv stuff in drama classes and basically just getting together with mates, trying to create something funny that made us laugh, throwing some veiled jokes and in-jokes that no one else would understand except except the four people.
00:03:21
Speaker
who were doing whatever whatever play or scene we were supposed to be doing. But yeah, I always kind of felt comfortable standing on stage, performing, sending myself up. but It wasn't wasn't something I was necessarily shy about.
00:03:33
Speaker
And yeah, I sort of started to take that more seriously through, you know, took it for GCSE, did it for A-level as well. And I think at that point I knew I wanted to to do drama at university as well, which is which is the path I went down. Although my mum definitely wanted me to do English alongside it, which was maybe her concerns that it possibly was a Mickey Mouse degree. But nevertheless, I still ploughed on with the full with a full drama degree and it and it did include literary theory as part of it. So maybe there was a bit of...
00:04:05
Speaker
ah credibility there with you know it was a it was a yeah there was some proper work to be done rather than just stand around pretending to be a dog or something so yeah um but but but I think I knew probably knew from like year nine year ten that I that I was almost certain I was going to take this somehow further than than school really so yeah I always I just always was comfortable being on stage um I guess being center of attention is obviously what I like to do. Maybe attitudes that have changed over the years, but yeah, I felt always, always felt comfortable standing in front of people and and saying things, doing things and acting and performing. Yeah. You have some quite exciting stories from uni. do yeah You got to go on a Japan trip as part uni.
00:04:50
Speaker
I did. Yeah. So um that in in our uni, I went i went to Hull University, University of Hull, and really good drama department there. Some great people.
00:05:01
Speaker
But they had, so every year they'd put on six, what they call main house shows. So students from all three years would sort of get involved. Some would be doing front of house stuff, marketing, things like that. Some would be doing stage management. Some would be doing costume.
00:05:17
Speaker
there there was there There were loads of ways you can get involved producing it, assistant producing it, all that kind of stuff. And then there was obviously the actors as well. And I i started, um there was two main house shows a year.
00:05:28
Speaker
And for my third year, I'd already been in one at the very start. It was Electra, the Greek tragedy with characters like Clytemnestra and Agamemnon. And so I'd been in one and you could only be in a max two.
00:05:40
Speaker
And I applied for another one, the Libertine, and I didn't get it. And I was quite annoyed. I just wasn't right. I didn't feel like it flowed. um I was a bit downhearted about it. But anyway, a few weeks later on a night out, I got approached and just said, oh, Japanese director wants you to be in this samurai play. And I was like, oh, great. so So I went along to like, it was just like workshop, he kind of audition on a Sunday.
00:06:01
Speaker
You read a few scenes, you maybe do some movement and, you know, just do some exercising and activities around the play and the themes as well. And luckily got selected for it. And yeah, as part of performing the play Hull, we also got a two week trip to Japan, a week in Osaka and a week in Tokyo ah to perform this samurai play out there as well. And we went to,
00:06:25
Speaker
So Osaka stayed with a family for a week who owned a restaurant. It was absolutely unbelievable. Got the bullet train over to Tokyo. And then we were we hit Tokyo University where there was a Freshers' Fair on Freshers' Week.
00:06:38
Speaker
So we got to be a part of that, which was crazy. And then we got to perform the play as well so i mean it was we got to see some other theater bits in japan as well got to see some no theater think some bunraku as well there were just different kinds of um of japanese theater with puppets and different really stylistic theater as well we were treated like dignitaries it was amazing uh trip of a lifetime with that but had i got that part in the liberty ryan that would have been my two for the year and i would not have been able to be to be part of that Japanese one I would never have gone to Japan so failing the audition was possibly one of the best things that happened to me so that's some serious silver lining how were it different I guess to perform in the plane whole versus in Japan was that was there a difference you obviously probably a bit more self-conscious sorry because you are you're portraying a different culture you're portraying sort of known sort of stock characters that are used in all these kind of all these stories the general plot of the the play that we did was i was the sort of samurai a father of a family wife and and son and the son was getting drum lessons from a drum teacher
00:07:43
Speaker
And basically what happens is my wife has an affair with the drum teacher. So this is like, as a samurai, you've been dishonored. And what you have to do he' basically found out, character finds out, I have to kill my wife because I've i've been dishonored. And then the the the rest of the play is me going after the drum teacher to go and find the drum teacher to go and kill him as well with a big sort of face off in the end. So yeah, I mean, I try to, I guess, be like really respectful. Yeah.
00:08:12
Speaker
Because you're wearing, you know, you were wearing kimonos. were wearing i was wearing those sandals. I had those socks where you have the toe through one bit and and the rest of the toes through the other. so But the the director that we had was this was a lecturer over and over in England. Had worked at a couple of yeah UK universities.
00:08:28
Speaker
and And she sort of taught us how to use a samurai properly, how to put the samurai sword back in. We used real samurais, but that were blunted. So we were able to use them and carry them on a plane, all that kind of stuff. We we we got to understand the movements a bit more and and and some of the pronunciations of the Japanese words. So it was it really was quite a sort of cultural learning experience, really.
00:08:49
Speaker
So, yeah, when you do get across there, you're very mindful. And, and you know, they're really grateful, polite audiences. And i think they're just sort of like, they're quite grateful that, that you know, you are you've come over here to... to show how much their culture means to you as well. And you're trying to portray it really respectfully. It's just a really nice feel. One thing I do remember that happened when I performed it in Hull, which I don't know how that would have gone, this would have gone down in Japan, is um we're basically in this this big showdown scene at the end with the drum teacher and we're we both wielding samurai swords. and But I think he's quite he's quite scared of me because a prop of I'm a proper warrior.
00:09:24
Speaker
And he's just banging some drums, a little music teacher. And at one point he sort of panicking and throwing like cushions or whatever at me, just throwing anything at me, just sort of stop whatever is about to happen happen. And in one of the performances in Hull, he threw a cushion and it skewered down the samurai sword. So it was like a kebab.
00:09:43
Speaker
And it was like, it sort of it really took the edge on you. yeah You're obviously fighting against kind of, uh, co-op saying, which is just laughing on stage and breaking character and breaking, the mood of everything and yeah ah that was one of the closest I've come to laughing on stage it was really really bad because I mean it's just a one in a million shot that would never ever happen if you attempted that a hundred times that would never happen so yeah that was a bit more chaotic and I remember getting there was a really big laugh because again the audience um in Hull we would have known a lot of them they would have been friends and and people on the course and and and other people as well but
00:10:15
Speaker
So there would have been kind of like a knowing laugh that, oh, that we know that that's not supposed to happen. And that's quite funny. Whereas I guess, yeah, in Japan, maybe the audiences were so it's slightly different and it was a bit more kind of quite formal, but yeah, it was, um I guess it was just trying to take it very seriously and and trying to be as as respectful as possible because they were just very, very hospitable to us and and treated us really,
From Arts to Marketing Career
00:10:36
Speaker
really well. So yeah, there were definitely differences between performing both, but yeah, it was such a cool experience, honestly. That like,
00:10:42
Speaker
Really sounds amazing. That's like properly like, you know, it's like, what did you get out of uni? I can't go to Japan if nothing ah Exactly, yeah. Like, maybe maybe it compromised my dissertation score, but you know what? Who cares? Life. It's like university of life, isn't it? Yeah.
00:10:58
Speaker
So, I guess you started doing the True Faith podcast in 2018, but you finished uni about 2000 and... I finished uni 2006. Six. Okay. I was going to guess seven. What did you do between then? I guess, did you did you try and sort of further pursue performing arts stuff? Did you go into a real job?
00:11:16
Speaker
That was quote-unquote... Yeah, I kind of just went down the real job route. um I was lucky enough to get a job at the Theatre Royal in Newcastle. Didn't have any marketing qualifications or experience at all, but I knew theatre quite well. So guess that's how I kind of got into marketing and then eventually into being a web professional as well. So not really the the regular path, but I think, um yeah, it was strange because I think once I left uni, I didn't necessarily have, I didn't really have the motivation to go into Amdram or anything like that. I didn't,
00:11:47
Speaker
I didn't go into plays. I guess I'd done a lot of plays and I'd done a lot of like smaller bits at university and it was, you know, it was intense and brilliant, but maybe I sort of hadn't, didn't didn't feel that I'd wanted to maybe join a drama club or a group or anything like that.
00:12:00
Speaker
When I worked at the Theatre Royal and then I went to Dan City after that, there's as cultural venues, weve got we got quite a lot of free theatre tickets as part of it. um So I was able to go to like Northern Stage, Live Theatre and Theatre Royal for discount or free. So ah I would kind of go to theatre quite a lot.
00:12:16
Speaker
But then when I moved out of that, when I got a job away from the arts and the free tickets stopped... I would still maybe go to the theatre of the odd time, but I must say that's kind of waned since, and it maybe it isn't something I do ah lot. I guess you have to really have your finger on the pulse to be able to get the best seats, of the best tickets for the best shows, and and maybe stuff that doesn't sell...
00:12:38
Speaker
is maybe bit more hit and miss and it is quite expensive hobby and when you're not getting freebies so yeah maybe that contributed to it but maybe it was just made perhaps maybe a bit of burnout from the fact that i'd done it all through school and i'd done my qualification in it and yeah in terms of taking it seriously as a career there was a few from my university that have gone on to do radio and acting and producing and directing and writing and there's you know being on advert loads of stuff a load of people have had sort of like maybe the odd success and some people have done fantastically well as well but I think towards the end of uni I kind of realized that the way to get into this was waiting tables in London and having quite a chaotic lifestyle and at the time I was going out with a girl who wanted to move to London and did and I didn't want to follow her so I think at that point I'd sort of made a decision to sort of stick with the marketing and stay in Newcastle and focus on more stable career as I saw it because I maybe I just thought you've got to have the motivation and drive to be able to succeed as an actor or certainly in that business. You might be on the breadline for years.
00:13:38
Speaker
You might have to live with complete strangers. You might, and I guess you've got to have the talent as well. And as as much as I back myself in lots of situations, maybe part of me didn't think that I was going to be good enough to make a career out of it.
00:13:50
Speaker
So maybe I made it more of a sensible, well, if I've used theater to get myself into a good marketing job and and and and and started getting the marketing that way, then At least I'm paying bills and it's a bit more of a stable lifestyle. So yeah, maybe a bit of a shame that I sort of drifted away from it, but it was perhaps just a bit of burnout and perhaps it was just, I was ready for sort of to focus on, on, on other things instead. I think that's quite interesting because I, A lot of the people I've spoke to who a lot of has been filmmakers and actors so far, but the ones who still seem to have it as a going thing in their life, they always say, like oh, I never went to uni to do it. And it's almost as if as if that's kept them from the burnout. Because I feel like I'm quite similar to you. I did script writing at uni and it was like after I finished,
00:14:34
Speaker
with this pressure to to to do it as a job so that my family didn't think, like, what's he done? Why is he wasting his time studying that? But then eventually that turns into, I'm not interested in doing this anymore because can't make any money from it and I've not seen my friends in months.
00:14:49
Speaker
But what you even if you don't necessarily do the exact discipline that you studied, there's still loads of transferable skills that you get out of that. So I you know i always envisage myself not having a nine-to-five having a slightly different kind of job and maybe, yeah, just using sort of the drama. But actually in doing some of the marketing jobs I've had um and certainly doing podcasting and things like that, it's it is it is sort of a performance sort of type and it is using your personality and your your confidence to be able to talk with conviction and to be interesting and to be entertaining, hopefully. Yeah. So that that there was transferable skills that I could take from drama to apply to trying to do YouTube channels and and and and podcasts as well, because like i say, it's it's it's that performative element. So maybe you found the same with script writing that even though you haven't necessarily written a blockbuster movie yet, Ryan, um but but but but maybe you've taken...
00:15:45
Speaker
You've taken plenty out of your your studies and you're learning from that, that you can apply to to different areas. It doesn't always have to be, you know, the exact, exactly the same. It can, it can certainly like just influence or inspire you to be able to have the confidence to do other things that you might find interesting.
00:16:02
Speaker
I think definitely. I think that's that's kind of where I'm going with it, actually, because because to me, this is why I've sort of asked so much about about your sort of background with performing arts and things, because to me, it's like a clear line from that to doing a podcast. that sort ah There's practicalities of sort of getting by and surviving, but then it seems like sort of a perfect way of keeping those sorts of skills together.
00:16:23
Speaker
as part of your life. kind of doing yourself justice. It's like, if if I had all this kind of like, I'm up on stage and performing, I like plays, I like the social aspect of it, doing things doing things with with a collective of people who are all sort of like-minded, like there there was so much about that that is really, really attractive and appealing to me.
00:16:40
Speaker
So I'm glad that I'm not necessarily like wasting a lot of that. I've just sort of turned it into something a bit different, but it's still sort of it still kind of works. it's still It's like I'm satisfying what I know I'm good at, what my best sort of skill set is, you know?
00:16:53
Speaker
Yeah,
Venturing into Podcasting
00:16:54
Speaker
it's sort of allowing you to to still... Scratch the creative itch. Is that a good phrase? Yeah, yeah. I think having a creative outlet is really important, whether I'm just playing a big bit of guitar on my own for nobody else, by the way, just but just to have an outlet to to let some stress out, to let some...
00:17:10
Speaker
but just you know, just keeps you out of mischief, doesn't it? Just, it's good to have something to focus on that you're quite passionate about as well, and because that's when you can kind of thrive a bit. If it's something you enjoy, you know, you want to get better at it. You want to you want to hone your craft. Doing podcasts, is it's difficult. It's just definitely a skill to learn. Yeah, it's just trying to do myself justice when I know my strengths are, even if it's far away from theatre and plays and and things like that. So how did you come to I guess, podcasting with True Faith, but you started your own podcast first. Did that lead into it? It did, yeah. So i I've been into football all my life. um
00:17:47
Speaker
Pretty much I've been supporting Newcastle probably since I was about six years old. I went to my first game just as I turned eight. I'm a current season ticket holder. At the time when I was thinking about creating my own content, I'd had a season ticket. My parents have had season tickets since the nineties. You know, used their ticket a lot. Then I went to university and came back and didn't get to use the ticket as much. But then in 2011, I bought my own season ticket finally,
00:18:13
Speaker
couple of rows down from my parents, which is where I am now, which is so I can still, it's still very much a family thing going to the match, which is, it's really appealing to be able to see my, you know, just be able to share those moments with my family.
00:18:24
Speaker
So I had my own season ticket for a few years at the point. Newcastle weren't exactly great during kind of 2013, 14, 15, but around 2015, I started thinking about, two thousand fifteen ah started thinking about wanting to create my own YouTube channel. I'd of started writing a few blogs and things like that because I wanted to get into that.
00:18:41
Speaker
So I created a YouTube channel called The Toon Network, where I plagiarized the Cartoon Network logo with a black and white checkered, if you can imagine that. ah that was and That's my favorite thing. I took away the C-A-R at the front of Cartoon and put T-H-E in. Or I certainly paid someone to do that.
00:18:59
Speaker
And it was The Toon Network like that. So massively plagiarized. Apologies, Cartoon Network. I don't really use that channel anymore. But that's when I started trying to present content, thinking about content.
00:19:11
Speaker
and And one of the first formats I thought about was ah what I called The Toon in 10. So it was like a 15-minute show. where there'd be a bit of preamble, then there'd be ah five-minute countdown.
00:19:23
Speaker
So we'd talk about a Newcastle topic for five minutes. So there was basically three of us on a sofa, me in the middle. It was my my brother-in-law on one side, my mate Pete on the other side. And we're trying to be sort of casual, trying to just be like lads sitting around having a chat sort of thing. Obviously, that trope has been done to death by now. But at the time, it was maybe less common, 15-minute episodes. and and had a towner and then the time of ran out it was that was just the gimmick of it and we're like stop stop the clock a bit and more chat and then had a half time and then did a second topic and so it was 15 minute episodes which sort of falls into the you know the the desired form format for a lot of
00:20:03
Speaker
ah YouTube videos now. But once I wanted to do it a lot more often than the other two could. And it felt like it was a bit of a chore trying to round them up. So in the end, I kind of went, you know, with with the essay. So I kind of said, look, I'm probably going to just start doing more on my own.
00:20:20
Speaker
So what I started doing was... sort of match reports, um ah transfer reactions, just on my own, talking to a camera and hoping that people would listen and watch.
00:20:32
Speaker
So I started doing that for a couple of years. I put a lot of work into And it is a lot of work, actually, which you don't realize, because I was really keen to have good graphics. I had like a little intro music, adding in sort of fresh imagery. So it looked so the thumbnail, looked doing all that. So it's kind of, you come out of a match, you record something,
00:20:51
Speaker
either out or at home, you get home, you up load the video, you edit it all, you render it. And my computer wasn't necessarily fast. when When that's happening, you then, once it's rendered, you then uploading it to YouTube, you're doing all of the bits that you need to do for that, tags and thumbnail and all all the things you have to do. Then it was promoting it across sort of, I joined like 30, 40 Newcastle Facebook groups where i I would just splash the link around everywhere, spam it really as much as I could.
00:21:21
Speaker
And it was a slog. You know, you're already you're already out the house for a few hours watching the game and then you're then doing content creation for for a few. If I could to go back and do it, Ryan, I'd probably... Pay less attention to the presentation and just upload myself talking. That's probably what I should have done from the start because it it ended up being quite labor intensive. And, you know, sometimes I would say a successful video would be thousand, three thousand kind of views.
00:21:45
Speaker
But then some you would get maybe three, four hundred, five hundred was probably more of the average. Sometimes you might only get a hundred and it would feel horribly demoralizing. So it is a slog on your own. um There's a lot of work that goes with it.
00:21:59
Speaker
But off the back of that, yeah, I'd been seen by ah guy who sort of runs the, certainly one of the one of the directors of the True Faith podcast now, Alex Hurst. And he'd seen some my stuff and asked me to be be a part of them because they wanted to kind of branch out into more bit more YouTube content. And so that's how I got into to the to the True Faith podcast from doing the two network stuff.
00:22:23
Speaker
being recognized for hopefully talking a bit of sense and and being seen as someone who could create reasonably entertaining content. But yeah, I think immediately it was kind of like, it was so much better to be part of a collective, part of a group that you're all kind of sharing the workload.
00:22:40
Speaker
You're all coming up with different ideas. And because there's a few of you, you can kind of do different things like quizzes and and sort of fun things like that. And you can have more debatey stuff. Whereas on your own, it's maybe a bit one dimensional. It's just you talking. You've got to be able to,
00:22:53
Speaker
structure ah monologue quite well and sometimes you're just doing it off the cuff so yeah definitely a different vibe but I ah much preferred after a lot of slogging and and I did overlap the two for a little bit before pulling away and and just doing only true faith stuff which is which is what it's been like for for the last few years You started doing the two networks, you said around 2013 and it's 2018. So it was more like 2015, think I started, 2015-16 was when when I started doing YouTube. But yeah you still continue to do it for a bit after you started with True Faith. That's like a good three years or something. Yeah, yeah, it was. it It was, yeah. And it's a lot of work.
00:23:33
Speaker
It was. And I think because I wanted to, you know, I think i it was kind of through the season and I thought, ah yeah, this is a lot doing both. And then you you find yourself, well, am I saying the same thing in two different places?
00:23:45
Speaker
And then I just thought, well, I'll get to the end of the season and I'll make it my my final one. But I wanted to sort of round off. I wanted to round out the season. just to sort of, so I could wrap it up in a sort of neat package. So the last season I did stuff for the two network was 2018, 19.
00:24:01
Speaker
So yeah, I was in, i was in London, of Fulham's ground on a really, really sunny day, lovely walk along the Thames. And it was Newcastle manager Rafa Benitez's last game for us at the time.
00:24:14
Speaker
and We won 4-0 and it was just a ah really nice, really nice away trip. We did a True Faith live event in London, one of the first that we ever did actually um that weekend, which was a part of with a couple of journalists as well.
00:24:28
Speaker
But yeah, I recorded my last match report for the Toon Network in May 2019. And then since then, it's just been completely focused on on True Faith content.
True Faith's Evolution and Impact
00:24:40
Speaker
It's one of the things with COVID is I'm like, oh, 2019, that was last year. I still think that's not that long ago, but that is. It's a long time ago. I'm a lot greyer now, Ryan. you can't we Listeners can't tell that on an audio format, but I'm a lot greyer now.
00:24:56
Speaker
So cana can you explain True Faith to me? Because I know it's a podcast. I know it's a fanzine, but the two are quite separate. Is that right? So it started off in 1999 as a fanzine. So basically just a small fan written magazine.
00:25:13
Speaker
that would so almost rival a program, you know, the official program that you might get. it was kind of and ah a fan's view alternative to that, sort of saying the stuff that, you know, match day program for a football match is going to be sanitized.
00:25:25
Speaker
It's not necessary. it's It's not going to be critical. It's going to be all family. late oh Whereas the the fanzine could maybe be a bit more truthful, you know, home truths or or praise when things are going well. um So that that that had been established and I'd been aware of sort of true faith ah a True Faith podcast um with Taylor Payne and Stephen Best, who I've known on and off over the years, bumming them on occasion. So they did that for a bit, but their their podcast was a bit sporadic. It wasn't like a regular thing, but I always used to tune in to those two. And that that was a similar vibe. It was them two chatting football in the kitchen, drinking a couple of beers and like they're good mates. So I i quite liked that format and it was very informal. And I think I was just sort
00:26:10
Speaker
drawn to that. I'd sort of been aware of True Faith before I'd ever got involved, but then when they stopped doing it, and and and actually, I must say, Taylor Payne's now gone on to host the Pod on the Tine podcast, which is up until very recently was an athletic podcast with a couple of journalists, Chris Woff and and George Colton to mention a couple and they've just gone independent, but he's sort of still in the podcast world as well hosting.
00:26:35
Speaker
ah So he he kind of went from true faith to to do, to do more stuff in the same world, but after they um maybe couldn't create content as often as maybe, maybe you wanted to, ah alex like Alex and a couple of his school pals had been doing some podcasts. I think they,
00:26:51
Speaker
I think they did it in a kind of on a local radio in Northumberland or something like that. It was, it was just very, very humble beginnings. Again, just a few lads sat around in a, in a living room, just having a laugh, talking about Newcastle and they started doing it regularly. And then it became more of a, more of a thing.
00:27:07
Speaker
And I started listening to the new show. um and And they, and they involved Mick Martin who, who created the fan scene. So Mick Martin was the, was the founder of True Faith um named after, the new order song because he's, he's, he's well into his sort of eighties and indie stuff.
00:27:22
Speaker
And yeah, my dad brought me up a new order as well. So it seemed like a good sign. um so yeah, so I kind of got into it then. And then the, when the rumblings of the takeover were happening, um, the, the, the, the Saudi Arabia takeover, ah um, that's when I first started appearing on, on, on that podcast and yeah, have since gone on, I mean,
00:27:44
Speaker
hundreds, thousands. I don't know how many podcasts and videos I've recorded since then. But yeah, I mean, it's definitely in the hundreds and hundreds and hundreds because it's, it's yeah, it's a lot of shows under my belt. But you can always learn. yeah There's always stuff to learn.
00:28:04
Speaker
But yeah, that's that's how I got it first got into True Faith. And um it's... Yeah, it's really, really gone on from strength to strength and it's now got a patron with paid subscribers now, which has been the case for a few years.
00:28:16
Speaker
So yeah, it was a bit of a leap in into the unknown going from just free podcasts to maybe one weekly free podcast and the rest being behind a paywall. We didn't know if that was going to be successful, if anyone would want to pay for it, if there was that much interest.
00:28:31
Speaker
uh but thankfully yeah that that there has been um so it's it's it's it's now but you know i host a lot of shows on on the patron you know ah alex and and charlotte and si who run it they they host a lot of of the free pods and a lot of the other pods on the paywall as well so there's yeah there's a lot of contributors who will host or just be contributors and um it's It's a really, really cool collective, lots of great like-minded people, but also just really different and interesting and lots of different angles. And everyone's got their own story and background to kind of bring.
00:29:04
Speaker
some of Some are journalists, some are just fans, some... are from Newcastle, others others are from all around the world. Like that there's a real blend. um And I think it's trying to talk about football, yes, in an honest way, trying to have sort of nuanced takes, you know, not just spouting the same old or just going on a sort of yes, sometimes there are expletive ridden rants that will go on. But it's it's I like to think that True Faith are more of a platform where there's maybe a bit more thoughtful debate.
00:29:37
Speaker
um And yeah, it can get into, it can get into sort of like, like I say, sweary rants, but there are some, I think there are some shows and and channels that maybe just lean into that as their USP. Let's have a sweary rant and and people are laugh and like it and stuff.
00:29:51
Speaker
Like, I like to have a bit more of a debate. I like to be a bit more analytical. Hopefully that's what we try to present, but there is, Because there's a lot of us, there's a lot of different content and tones that we can put out there. So I think the variety helps the product offer it to to to say something horribly corporate. But I think and it makes it makes the the content offering just a lot more varied. It's good to see people feeding back and getting involved in the debates themselves in the comments as well.
00:30:17
Speaker
you know There's this thing people say, like we'd be doing this even if we were not recording. But I feel like i do get that from from the one episode I listened to. I do get that sense anyway. I've heard you talk about football outside of podcast things. um But I guess I'm curious about how how the experience differs. Because obviously, if you're just talking to someone,
00:30:38
Speaker
in a non-recorded setting, ah you're not having to guide and sort of, I guess, control the environment quite as much. Yeah, it's funny because the more natural conversations, when you're kind of not under the pressure of, well, we're recording and people going to hear this, sometimes go like really, really well. Usually when we'll on a platform a bit like this,
00:30:57
Speaker
you know we'll drum on a platform a bit like this um before before recording a show, again, just have a little chat between the few and and maybe structure the show. We'll go here, then we'll go there.
00:31:08
Speaker
And usually we've sent an agenda ahead. So everyone knows kind of what the conversation is going to look like. So you can go away and do some prep and come into it. um But what you try to replicate in the podcast is the sort of, is that sort of natural conversation that you were doing off air And it's difficult. And I guess in in the modern world and since lockdown, i mean, we used to only be able to record...
00:31:30
Speaker
in person because the technology just wasn't, it just wasn't good enough. It wasn't there. Obviously lockdown changed all that with video conferencing and becoming a lot more affordable, the technology improved.
00:31:42
Speaker
Um, so as much as say that the, the free part, which I don't get on every week, um, you're sort of called up, uh, to, to go to the studio in town, um to, to, to record, um, with, with, with the main three, um, or whoever's about.
00:32:01
Speaker
And, The rest of it usually is is is done online like this. So the challenge is to try and get that natural conversation where maybe you don't want to talk over each other, but you want to be able to have what feels like a more fluid conversation, more natural, rather than just, I'm going to talk and then stop, and then you're going to talk and then stop, and then it's his turn to talk and then stop, which does sometimes happen, and it and it keeps it clear.
00:32:25
Speaker
You don't want too much chaos in the ears, do you? You don't want everyone talking over each other. If you're in a room... you could probably get away with kind of just putting in for a bit like, Oh, I'm just going to bounce. There's, there's methods you can use um online. So you can maybe wave a hand or we use a private chat to say, Oh, can I just come in here? I've got a quick point to make.
00:32:44
Speaker
Yes. But let him finish saying what he's finished first and then I'll come to you. So there's kind of ah bit of direction and orchestration behind the scenes that you, that you don't get to hear. But I think in a room, it's probably a lot easier to get that natural conversational feel.
00:32:59
Speaker
But it doesn't mean you can't create good content because ultimately you just want to be able to clearly get your point across and if someone can counteract that or you just want to be able to create an interesting conversation. So it's that's the challenge of doing it remotely.
00:33:11
Speaker
So it's an extra skill there where you've got to try and make it sound natural even though you're not in the same room and and try not to talk over each other. But then sometimes... There are some formats, there are there are serious shows more serious shows and there are less serious shows um where there's bit more laughing if it's a bit more informal and you're sort of having a laugh. And we've got a show, for example, yes, we've got a lot of serious stuff talking about football and all the stuff that comes with it.
00:33:37
Speaker
But then we've got a show called TFAQ, which is True Faith Any Questions, which is where listeners will submit questions, any questions. So most of them are football related, but then sometimes you might be like, what's your favorite flavor of crisps? Or sometimes there'll be a Simpsons question in there because listeners know that a good chunk of the core of the podcasters at True Faith are really in a classic era Simpsons. So there's often a Simpsons sort of, question thrown in so there is a bit more in sort of informal and not all it's not all football but it's obviously very very heavily weighted towards football so so sometimes the tone of a podcast can change based on the kind of show is sometimes you get a journalist on and you might be a bit more serious and formal because they' they've got some real insight and knowledge to share so yeah I guess I just quite like the variety but all the time you you want to be well prepared so that you maybe can be a bit more conversational throwing some facts here and there and some talking points that you might have thought of beforehand and
00:34:29
Speaker
Um, and sometimes you just think about things on the spot and, and and you can, the the conversation can, can go down ah a path you didn't necessarily expect, but it's really, really good to listen to. And yeah, there's a lot of challenges, but it's trying to, it's trying to get that conversational feel, but then also try to come across as professional as well in, in, in in the right contexts.
Balancing Passion and Professionalism
00:34:47
Speaker
Does doing the podcast affect your enjoyment of football and Newcastle in any way? Can you go to a match and just enjoy it? It's a really, really good question because maybe that's kind of a bit what happened to me in theatre world, really.
00:35:03
Speaker
From being in plays, studying and then working in in a couple of theatres. Yeah, it became more work than pleasure, I guess, in that respect. Football was always like my biggest passion anyway, bigger than theatre. So I guess there's less danger of that, but I absolutely know what you mean. And and yes, I guess I felt it more...
00:35:22
Speaker
doing the stuff on my own and every match would be right. What am I going to say? How long is this going to take me? Is this going to be hours at home? Like, and it, you know, can affect home life as well when you're, you're sort of like invested in sort of trying to get something out.
00:35:38
Speaker
So yeah, I guess with the the fact that it's a collective is easier. ah can still go to the match and enjoy myself. And and ah I ended up, I ended up just because out of pure habit,
00:35:49
Speaker
if I watch a game on TV or I'm um'm there at the match in person, I formulate talking points, I formulate, oh, That's an interesting tactical observation.
00:36:00
Speaker
Wonder why we're doing that. I might check some stats afterwards to see if it backs up what I thought I've seen on the pitch, stuff like that. So ah think I'm just naturally now wired to think about that stuff, even if I'm not necessarily recording a podcast immediately after or the next day.
00:36:15
Speaker
But sometimes it might be a instead of a full sort of 40-minute podcast, ten the free podcast tends to be, which goes out to a much larger audience, as you imagine, with with it not being behind a paywall, That will go out to kind of thousands.
00:36:27
Speaker
But sometimes there might be an instant reaction where you don't prepare anything. And that's the point of it. It's just a sort of emotional, immediate response to a match you've just seen or ah transfer that's just happened or breaking news that's just come out.
00:36:40
Speaker
so sometimes it kind of takes away the pressure when you know it's there's almost nothing to prepare they just need an emotional reaction to to what I've just seen or how I've interpreted it or what how does this make me feel what does this mean in the wider context of the season all this kind of stuff so I think I'm I'm just naturally right to think about all these things whether I'm recording a podcast immediately after the match or the next day or later on in the week or sometimes not at all and I'm recording something else, having those thoughts in your head, usually I find are going to be useful some point down the line, just formulating opinions, having an opinion about something. So if someone said, oh yeah, talk to me about this particular talking point in Newcastle at them, then in my head, I'll have, I'll already have about five bullet points or talking points that are that I'll just whip out and just talk to somebody about or,
00:37:24
Speaker
or argue with someone or debate somebody and in in that respect. It's always trying to find a and a nuanced view that maybe not many people are thinking of It's obviously difficult. Lots of people come to the same thing independently, but you know it's trying to put content out there that are talking point that, you know, does might not necessarily be on every single platform.
00:37:42
Speaker
reaction video that might be out there on on podcasts or YouTube. So that's what I'm always trying to strive for. And I like to try and come to the conclusions myself. And then maybe later on, I'll have a look online to see if other people have also come to that conclusion. Then I get sort of vindication for for my, for my, but what I don't like to do is go online first and see the stuff that I probably was going to say anyway, because I want it to be, I want it to be my own thoughts, which is difficult when there's, there's so many people out there on social media, on X, on Instagram, on Facebook, whatever it is,
00:38:11
Speaker
on YouTube but saying these things, having opinion on all the same things. So maybe you can't be completely unique, but I do try and challenge myself to find, well, what are the talking points on this game? Even if it's the same things that other other people have found, i like to know that i've I've come around to that independently.
00:38:27
Speaker
I find something similar with like watching films. I always log them on Letterboxd. And even though no one cares what I put on Letterboxd, I'm always like, if I'm going to put something on there, I have to make sure I've not read anybody's Letterboxd reviews first.
00:38:38
Speaker
That's exactly it. That's exactly it, yeah. The two things seem to feed into each other then for you. It's like the passion you have for football and Newcastle means that always was interesting for you to to to be...
00:38:50
Speaker
forming opinions and finding talking points, but then finding talking points. I don't know, would you say that sort of, in a way brings you like closer to so the thing that you care about so much? Yeah, because I'm always thinking about it. I'm always having chats about it. I've got, I'm in several WhatsApp groups and got a big one for the podcast, but I've got other football group chats that are just with other mates that I know or people I've worked with before or just there's there's lots of people out there that do want to talk football. So you'll just send just send without context.
00:39:18
Speaker
you you know, a football related question or or quip to one your mates. And then you can just get into a full conversation for 20, 25 minutes. So yeah, that is what I do anyway. So even if I wasn't doing any of the podcast stuff, I would still be having conversations with people about Newcastle and again, trying to find nuanced takes on things or trying to find what I really think and try not to be influenced by other people. So I'm i'm always having those conversations, but um I've been lucky enough to kind of,
00:39:45
Speaker
have a few media appearances over over the years and having basically having thoughts and opinions in your head ready it to go at all times helps with things like that so I've i you know I've had you know been on sort so of local news and and national sort of news radio and sky sports and ITV, TNT, BBC, done a lot of stuff. ITV local news, BBC local news, like Look North and stuff.
00:40:09
Speaker
So if if if somebody gets in touch and says, oh, would you like to come on at this time and and just, can you talk to us about this match or can you talk to us about what's happening in transfers or whatever it is, then I'll probably, because I'm always formulating those talking points, I guess I've got the the confidence and conviction to say, oh yeah, okay, I know what I would say. These are the three bullet points that have been swirling around my head and been thinking about the last few days. So I've already got kind of, you know, ready to go, not quite statements. I don't i don't necessarily write a script or anything, but I'll have things in my head where which I know will will formulate a good answer that maybe represents exactly what I'm thinking. So it does help for things like that when you might be maybe caught off-court or you have to jump onto something without any warning. So yeah, in that respect, I guess I'm always on, I'm always switched on to talking football, which is difficult when things aren't necessarily going so great, which has been the case for a lot. And it feels like more of a slog and as much as things have really picked up over the last few years and there's a lot more interest in Newcastle and lot more people want to hear
00:41:04
Speaker
Newcastle content when we lose and things aren't great unsurprisingly there's a drop off in people listening because when we have a bad result I don't want to listen to anyone talking about Newcastle sometimes it's good as this kind of group therapy so something terrible's happened coming on your part and talking about it with other people who are equally as pissed off and annoyed then it's sort of but reassuring that oh well it's not just me everyone's feeling a bit glum about this so it can help you through the bad times so it does it does have the fact and and the other thing to mention about the collective as well as the social side of it.
00:41:36
Speaker
Like, because it's a collective, we, we socialize together. We see each other before the game. Not, not all the time. I've sometimes with my parents or whatever, and meeting up with, with, with the collective and going on nights out and things. It's, it's tight-knit group it's really good fun that the social aspect of it is a big draw for me so kind of in it together everyone's sort of feeling the same it it's literally like your club like the football club but sort of feeling it these are the people who go and drink with these are the people i've gone to germany to watch champions league football away in dortmund you staying in dusseldorf having the opportunity to do that amazing memories football memories that you're never going to forget so it's it's good to be able to share all that
00:42:11
Speaker
with like-minded people but then who also are able to form those talking points and can have those you know those debates and maybe i'm not going to say more more intellectual because that's horribly arrogant it's not what i mean it's just there are chats about football that maybe are a bit more lowbrow and i think it's sort of that's not necessarily my forte i'd i like to have more interesting debates yeah just hearing what other people have to say because you'll you'll get people coming in with angles that you would never things that you wouldn't have even thought of you think ah Then you just really respect that put because, oh, that's a really good talking point. And you realize, yeah, that's why they're in this collective because they have those talking points. They think of those angles that hopefully are interesting to the listeners.
00:42:47
Speaker
Yeah, it seems sort of more considered and nuanced, maybe. That's it, yeah. This is my last last real question. And then I'm going to ask you about your favorite film. What do you consider your...
00:42:57
Speaker
And I guess the podcast's role to be within sort of fandom for Newcastle United, like do you consider yourself professional commentators is the wrong word? Cause that means something different with football, but like people, do you consider yourselves people with professional opinions, fans with platform, like where do you fit? Yes. So I think it's its i thinks the the the genre has been dubbed fan media. And over the last few years, i guess it absolutely has become a lot more prominent in in mainstream media. The fact that certainly our podcasts were able to call upon respected journalists um that you might see on the TV, you might hear on podcasts, and you might be reading in your favorite newspaper or publication.
00:43:35
Speaker
So we have good relationships with those. We put on live events with journalist panels and stuff. I'm actually at a live event this week in Gosforth. I'll be appearing on stage for a short time for for the first time, which I'm really excited about.
00:43:47
Speaker
So this is really the full circle of stepping off the boards of theatre and then stepping back onto them in ah in a podcast sense. I did do a live event, like I said, back in 2019, but that was very different. But...
00:44:00
Speaker
So yeah, so there's a lot more credibility, especially when you have commentators on who are respected and we have relationships with with other fan media podcasts as well of other clubs and getting respected journalists on who are experts in their field coming onto the podcast, you know, just offering value. I think we have a really, really important role to play because there's you've got the press pack who are the proper journalists who get in the press room at Newcastle who ask Eddie Howard questions who sit in the press seats at the stadium as well they'll ask difficult questions they'll try and find the hidden truths and all that kind of stuff but it's maybe difficult is for the because the journalists still have to have a job to do and they still have to maintain relations whereas I think fan media can be a bit more of a critical friend because this is like not relying on our jobs and having the relationships with the clubs to be able to make content
00:44:46
Speaker
We can be a lot more honest, I think is the answer really. Whereas journalists obviously seek truth and they're excellent, but there's added context that they still need to be able to walk in the next week and and not be banned for putting out you know a hit piece on somebody. We're not in that boat.
00:45:02
Speaker
And i mean, I guess the flip side is you're getting a lot more kind of fan media led stuff on things like Sky Sports. A lot of people are criticized maybe the downgrade of that and...
00:45:13
Speaker
And yeah, lot of people listen to our podcast, a lot of people won't, and lot of people... won't like us and are sick of YouTubers and podcasters thinking they're better than everyone else. And well, you know, you're going to get, you're always going to get backlash. always going to get that criticism because you put yourself out there and you put your opinions out there and you have to be prepared for people to disagree.
00:45:32
Speaker
Sometimes you have to be prepared for people being horrible. I wouldn't ever condone that, but it happens. But I think the role of fan media is definitely growing and, and sort of being more intertwined with what I'd say proper journalism.
00:45:44
Speaker
But I think the legitimacy has come when those proper journalists have come onto our platform and come come to our live shows and talked on our behalf and created content alongside us. So yeah, I think, I mean, podcasts have obviously just blown up, haven't they, the last few years as as a medium, I think. If you look at most hosts or TV shows that have ended, I'm i'm thinking of terms of like Conan O'Brien, you know, talk show host, moves into podcasting.
00:46:09
Speaker
You've got... um you know, BBC political presenters, Emily Maitlis, for example, has now gone into podcasting. And that's so that Gary Lineker, Left Match, has now gone into podcasting. He's got a whole podcasting company. So there's there's big personalities who are now podcasting is the the genre to get into, really. it's And it's taking probably a lot of um audience away from paid TV, like like like Sky Sport. I honestly do. that I think that's sort of dying a death a little bit. it It'll cater for a lot of people, but I think podcasts have come up and I think,
00:46:41
Speaker
ah alongside that, fan media has become a lot more prominent. And yes, it means there's a lot more out there. There's a lot more competition. um You have to cut through the noise a lot more. But luckily, True Faith kind of went launched their put their patron many years ago now and maybe slightly ahead of that curve.
00:46:59
Speaker
um to be able to build up a you know a loyal audience who and we sell out the live shows and we get lots of listenership. We get lots of comments and feedback as well. So there's a nice little community there. But yes, I absolutely agree that the rise of podcasts has helped the rise of fan media And it's become a lot more.
00:47:15
Speaker
It's because it's free. It's because anyone like now, Ryan, it's it's just being able to sit down and be able to create content on a platform without needing much else. You get a mic, you get it maybe a subscription or something, and then you can plug in and ready to go and you can create anything. I think that's a brilliant thing.
00:47:30
Speaker
ah for creativity and for people having an outlet and being able to shine it and finding their niche, guess, and finding finding their nuance in in in a sea of what can be a lot of samey content, lot of similar content.
00:47:42
Speaker
So yeah, it's it's definitely on the rise and it's definitely got a lot more legitimacy than it ever has. But yeah, you you still have to be able to create good, solid content to retain your audience and and keeping more listening in and on top of that, willing to maybe pay for for content behind the paywall as well, which is what we're always
Favorite Films and Directors
00:47:59
Speaker
pushing for.
00:48:00
Speaker
I feel like I could keep asking you your questions and I feel that you'd have something interesting to say on basically anything. But I don't want to keep you too long. So quickly, I like to ask people so for a film or another piece of media that's important to them in some way. um It doesn't have to be a favourite.
00:48:16
Speaker
It can be something that's influential, something you watched a lot as a kid. Does anything spring to mind? Yeah, yeah there's there's there's one film that does spring to mind. I mean, I'll put it out there. My two favourite directors, I would have to say, are Quentin Tarantino.
00:48:29
Speaker
and Christopher Nolan, and I'm going to choose Interstellar. So I'm a really big space nerd, Ryan. I love stargazing. I like going on walks at night. I love seeing meters. I love seeing where the planets are. I love taking pictures of the moon. i just just I'm just really into it. I've been up to Kiel, the observatory, had to look at the moon through, like a proper, proper tele... It's just...
00:48:51
Speaker
So i i've always I've always really enjoyed sort of space stuff and something I share with my mum as well. Yeah, Interstellar. ah love kind of, obviously it's of sort of hints of a dystopian world on on on on Earth to an extent with the crops dying and things, how they're looking to explore.
00:49:08
Speaker
I love that kind of, it's it's that sense of, It's a sense of family. It's a sense of exploration. It's a sense of desperation. And I kind of just love films that are a bit of a head fuck as well. The the the cast is unbelievable. The writing is, the music is obviously just iconic now. And it's obviously to a point that it's sort of saturated a bit and overused.
00:49:29
Speaker
But, you know, the it's the Hans Zimmer, the cornfield, I've forgotten exactly the title of it, but it's the it's the very, very well-known signature ah riff from front from Interstellar.
00:49:40
Speaker
But the way the way that film comes full circle, and tackles a black hole. And I love how years later, of you know astrophysicists have applauded how lifelike, how realistic the interpretation of the black hole is in that film, which is the key to all of it, really.
00:49:58
Speaker
And the concept of the planet with with different timing because it's so close to the black hole and you know how we're on there is years real time. All of that, just the the complete mindfuck, the whole Matt Damon cast.
00:50:09
Speaker
Everything about that film, the cast, and how dark it is, but then it sort of wraps up and it it just, it makes me cry pretty much every time I see it. And every time it comes out on the cinema again in IMAX, I go along and watch it, even I've seen it loads, because it is a really, really special film. It's incredibly well-written.
00:50:27
Speaker
it looks amazing. the the The soundtrack just hits differently. And yeah, Matthew McConaughey, it just kills that. It's devastating, that film in many ways, but it's also hopeful.
00:50:42
Speaker
So it really takes on an emotional rollercoaster, to throw in a massive cliche there, but it's it's a film that I will watch and continue to watch over and over and over again and and appreciate all the performances and appreciate the the messages in it and yeah and i think it's a modern classic i really really do i think it's an absolutely stunning film interstellar's always one that uh i watched it when i was like like ridiculously hungover like like early 20s like stayed up all night drinking whatever we could find
00:51:13
Speaker
And then I went to watch it by myself and just the ending of it, like it actually scared me off of Christopher Nolan films until Oppenheim. becausez ah Wow. But that is not that is that it's a great film. um I was just in too much of a uh hangzai i think it thinks what it's called that's a good way i think my my other one quickly would have just uh quentin tarantino i really like the kill bills which ties into the japan thing and just all of that and it just looks cool and again the soundtrack brilliant but yeah interstellar is just that one that i'll always keep coming back to you and i enjoy all the other nolan films and i'll watch them i love a memento i love uh the dark knight um
00:51:55
Speaker
I love Inception. you there there's that there just There are so many ah that you could class as you know classic films, you know modern classics, but yeah, Interstellar is just a just a cut above for me. It's special. Okay, well, thank you for talking to me. um Is there anything you want to plug, and would you like to tell people where they can find you? Check out True Faith content if you're into football, and if you're around in Gosforth on...
00:52:18
Speaker
I don't know when this is going out, Ryan. So maybe it's, maybe it's already passed, but yeah, check, it check, check out some future True Faith Live events. But yeah, just ah thank you for having me, Ryan. And to anyone who wants to, you know, create content, I'd say just do it and don't worry about who's listening and how many people are watching or views or hates or anything like that.
00:52:38
Speaker
Create the content you want to create. And if people come along with you, brilliant and if they don't don't worry about it it's for you it's a creative outlet
Episode Conclusion
00:52:45
Speaker
and it can help with mental health and it can help with lots of things um but yeah just be bold and just just go for it i would say buy mic go for it and and see what you can create but but thank you very much for having me on this podcast ryan i've really really enjoyed the chat and uh i look forward to listening to some of you others that you've had yeah thank you and i feel very validated by that bit the end um i'll i'll see you there
00:53:13
Speaker
What Makes You Tick is hosted, produced and edited by me, Ryan Watson. Thank you to Craig Pearson for designing the show logo. The theme music is Silent Movie 91 by Sasha End. Thank you once again to Adam for speaking to me for this episode.
00:53:25
Speaker
Join me next week for my conversation with actor and Actors Forge mentor, Craig Pearson. And keep an out for a preview of that conversation by following at MakesYouTickPod on Instagram. Thanks for listening.