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Craig Conway: You can be anything and everything so long as you know who you are as a creative entity
49 Plays6 months ago
This week for the Season One Finale I have Craig Conway on the podcast!
We go into a lot of detail about the way Craig teaches other actors to know and understand themselves and the self revelation that comes with exploring acting and other creative pursuits in this way. We talk about the idea of the ‘Permission slip’ and some imposter syndrome.
Craig also talks about his background and how he came to acting, we discuss ‘Newtown Artist Management’, the upcoming feature film he’s directed ‘Red Riding’ AND the 2008 short film ‘Romans 1220’.
Show Art is by Craig Pearson.
Theme Music is 'Silent Movie 91' by Sascha Ende.
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Transcript
Introduction to 'What Makes You Tick'
00:00:09
Speaker
Hello and welcome to What Makes You Tick, a conversation podcast where I, Ryan Watson, speak to actors, writers, filmmakers and a range of other artists from the northeast of England and sometimes beyond about what they do how they make it work and the media that inspires them to
Meet Craig Conway
00:00:22
Speaker
do that work. Today I'm speaking with the actual northeast legend Craig Conway. Craig's career as an actor, producer, writer and director has spans 30 years. He's been in a whole range of films and TV shows, including Our Friends in the North, Dog Soldiers, The Descent, Wire in the Blood, The Hogfather, Vera, Inspector George Dently, The Fades and Ted Lasso and so much more. i mentioned a few more than I normally do because there were lots of things that really jumped out to me. He's written films such as the 2016 thriller Broken. Recently, he's also made an appearance as guest of honour at the Northeast Horror Film Festival, Terror
Artistic Lifestyle and Permission
00:00:57
Speaker
on the Tyne.
00:00:57
Speaker
Craig, hello and welcome and thank you for being on the show. You're very welcome. It's nice to be here. Nice to meet you and talk to you. So I like started this podcast. I was starting to think about back in June and I was just, I was just thinking, cause I go to like the Actors Forge and was thinking I'll be able to talk to people like Dan Lemon and Craig Pearson. And I was just like, you were, taught a session that were in sort of towards the end of last year and about November. And I was just like, would Craig, would Craig be my, this is my season finale, by the way. Yeah, and I just, I don't know, I was really shy about asking you for a good while, but I just really appreciated when I asked you and you were just like, yeah, be up for that. Yeah, of course, absolutely. But yeah, I always try and start by sort saying something that my guests, some way they've left an impression. And I think in that session that you taught at the Actors Forge that we're in, there were sort of two things that kind of like really have like sort of stuck with me since then. The first is like you'd said a thing about
00:01:54
Speaker
you have to let yourself live the artist's lifestyle. And so I guess the idea that no one's coming to to give you permission. And I think that was just like really important because I think in a lot of ways, i've for a long time, kind of felt a bit, you know, almost as if you are waiting for someone to tell you it's okay to do something. And yeah so that was something that just, yeah, um really stuck with me from. Yeah. I mean, the the permission slip thing is is something I come across all of the time. Yeah.
00:02:21
Speaker
And especially lately, I've been working a lot um with the University of Sunderland and you see a lot of media students and performing arts students. and And it doesn't matter which which way around you look, even if you look from the training side of things to getting into the professional side of the industry throughout your whole career.
00:02:40
Speaker
It doesn't matter who you are, how high up you get. there is always a sense of, am I worthy enough? Am I compatible enough? Do I have what it takes? And, you know, a lot of times those questions, they're there because we we live in a world where it's kind of ingrained in us from a very early age that if you don't tick the box or if you don't get the grade or if you don't look a certain way, that the only way you'll ever get somewhere is if somebody...
00:03:10
Speaker
gives you permission. And it's it's a kind of an X factor feeling. You know, you're waiting for the judges to hit the buttons and say, yeah, you can do it. And actually, that kind of stagnates a lot of creativity. it it It pauses people from being a true creative within themselves. Now, it doesn't necessarily mean that Everybody has the talent to do X, Y, Z. But what it does mean is if you give yourself the permission to try something, because there is no, the other thing is there is no
Embracing Authenticity in Creativity
00:03:41
Speaker
failing in anything. You you can't fail at being your true creative self.
00:03:46
Speaker
It's an impossibility because as long as you know that the permission slip comes from you and nobody else, then you're not you're not governed by anybody else. but But we tend in this industry to say, you know, if your film didn't make it to the cinema, that somehow it wasn't a good movie. Well, that's a lie. We know that. If you didn't get to Hollywood, then you're not a successful actor. If you're not a celebrity, you're not a successful actor. Yet there are many actors who have been in the theatre for their whole careers and they're incredible, outstanding actors and performers. Likewise with directors, we may not know their names, but
00:04:22
Speaker
but they have been absolutely there, credible and working their whole lives. But again, if somebody doesn't give you the permission slip from the the right place at the right time, somehow we feel deflated and somehow we feel like we're not we're not worthy enough and we need to stop that. It's something that actually comes up a lot when I do these. It is this idea that like you can give yourself that permission. And and again, like you said, it's in a lot of ways, it's worse to not
Identity Crisis and Self-Discovery
00:04:49
Speaker
not try. Even if you fail, that's still ah a success kind of in its its own way because you've yeah given something to go. I think it's actually related to the other thing I'd remembered from that that session that were in. um I hope you're okay for me to like mention it.
00:05:02
Speaker
Of course, yeah. You told a story where I think you'd said you'd not been on a TV show for a while and you were filming for a TV show and you ended up having it like a panic attack. Yeah. And again, that were in a similar way that like really stuck with me because it were like, you know, we'd been presented as like Craig's like the guy. And for that to be one of the first things he said, it it's almost like understanding that people at a higher level go through those things.
00:05:25
Speaker
it It changes what the goals are for yourself because it's like, really because to me, it's like the goals to become confident enough that I never feel like that. And it so it really helped with understanding that actually maybe the goal's something different to that. I think it is. It's it's very different from what I thought it was. And, you know, again, this... um what What it comes down to is ah an identity crisis, not necessarily as in, I don't know who I am.
00:05:52
Speaker
It's I don't know who I've been. And for for many years, right up until the pandemic, I'd kind of lived, I guess, a career on the side of, again, being given permission by other people and and also always looking for approval.
00:06:08
Speaker
to see if I was good enough to be in the industry. So when the pandemic happened, it was the very first time my identity wasn't associated with being an actor anymore. was actually down to a very basic thing of, can I say my son? Will I be able to go out again into the world? And also, what happens if you don't have the job, the career, the the lifestyle, all of these things, if all of them are stripped away from you and taken away from you, what do you have left?
00:06:36
Speaker
And I started to realise it was about the people I love. It's about the friendships I've made. It's about having thoughts and ideas and being creative in ways that I didn't have to just turn up and act. I could write more. I could draw. I could play music. I could sing. I could do whatever I wanted to be creative without having to be just the actor or the performer. And that That change when I went back to doing the TV show a few years later, and I hadn't really done anything since the pandemic. But when I went back into it, what I realised is i came onto set and, you know, the director, everybody's lovely, but I was there to do a kind of day player part.
00:07:20
Speaker
And there was no preparation. I got the call kind of the night before whatever. Can you come on, do this? And and you you walk onto a set where there's hundreds of people all running around doing their thing. And it was a kind of quick job for hire.
00:07:34
Speaker
And ah although I love the the cast and the crew and respect them, that wasn't ever why I got into acting. I got into acting to tell a story, to connect to the material and to give the best of experience. using the talents I know I've got.
00:07:48
Speaker
And ah very quickly realized on that set that day that there was an identity crisis because I hadn't dealt with the lack of confidence I've always had. And suddenly it became very apparent and very real.
00:08:01
Speaker
and was this overwhelming sense of of confusion on set. um I got through the day, went back another day to do the behind-the-camera stuff and had um a doubly worse experience because this time ah i kind of collapsed and paramedics were called. And it it really struck me. and and And then I was like, that's it. Then maybe this is my time to stop acting.
00:08:25
Speaker
But what I realised was it had nothing to do with that. It was actually about... the crisis I've been carrying around about my own identity for all of these years from being a kid, you know, and you you have to deal with it at some point.
00:08:38
Speaker
Otherwise it will come and and kind of um make you very aware that it exists in ways that you aren't going to expect. So that's that's what happened to me. And that's why now I'm trying to encourage more and more creatives to um deal with who they are and find out what the real part it is that you have to play.
00:08:59
Speaker
um And and that's that's where I'm at at the moment. It's so interesting because I feel like I'm a stage, I don't know if I'll leave this in, but just for context. Me and my wife split up last year. and um But it's like, i feel like I'm at the stage where there was so much of myself that were like tied up in being a certain person. And like, to me, like getting into acting has really sort of helped me to like,
00:09:23
Speaker
to understand kind of who I am outside of like one specific relationship yeah and it's it's kind of really interesting and that that's that's something that's really specifically worked for me but obviously you've been an actor for a long time and and in some ways some of the the negatives were were tied up in that and it's like almost like your authenticity is coming from ah a different place a hundred percent and and you've kind of hit the nail on the head in a way because You know, relationships, marriage and and partnerships, they're all um wonderful things.
00:09:57
Speaker
But and I kind of say this to anybody, if you go back to when you meet the person that you feel that affinity with in the first instance. You spend a lot of time pretending, and I don't mean this in a way of lying, I mean that as as in the the most positive experience, you give the best of yourself so that person will inevitably become closer to you.
00:10:19
Speaker
And actually, the the difficult thing to do is to be who you are. and And what happens is when people like us, we then join, we have this affinity, seven months, eight months, a year, two years down the line, the cracks start to show.
00:10:34
Speaker
And then we start revealing the things that have bothered us that we we't possibly hid because it was uncomfortable to talk about. Then we feel so comfortable that we can talk about it.
00:10:45
Speaker
But if the other person isn't aware from the beginning that those things are in you, they become skeletons in closets. And actually, the work to be done is to, when you're on your own, is to actually realise that you you have to strip away all of the pretense.
00:11:02
Speaker
You have to strip away all of the surface, get right down dark and deep. accept who you are and that means your flaws the things that you may have done wrong forgive yourself for it and then be exactly who you are not in order to impress but in order to be able to empathize understand and live freely knowing that with or without this person you are the genuine article and And that's why I think most relationships are are turbulent.
00:11:34
Speaker
And the the you know they talk about the seven-year itch. I don't think it's a seven-year itch. I think what it is is seven years gives you the luxury to go through so many highs and lows. And if you still can't find a resolve within yourself, there is no other option but to leave unless you are being 100%
Journey into Acting
00:11:53
Speaker
who you are. Thank you. It's always something to me with with these kind of conversations. I'm like... do I want to go in with it with with all this sort of real stuff? But I'm always really like glad to have done that. You know, it's sort of like, I think it's just really important to have these kind of, it's like, it's sort like having like a, I'm calling it like an emotionally honest conversation, you know, thank you for just kind of going there with me to start with. um I guess the the question that i always ask towards the beginning is what's your background with with acting? Like, how did your how did you come to it?
00:12:26
Speaker
It was very much an escape mechanism for me. um I had quite a, quite I would say, quite a kind of turbulent childhood. um It wasn't particularly nice. The people around me were were trying their best with what we had. But it was a very troubled childhood.
00:12:43
Speaker
um And it was extremely aggressive and abusive in many different ways. um And there was also a lot of bullying and a lot of fearful times.
00:12:55
Speaker
So it was never comfortable, although I did have an ability to kind of entertain people very quickly. And I used, you know, being in the clown, the class clown and things like that to get on with the people who even were bullying me. So I spent a lot of years creating things.
00:13:12
Speaker
in a way a character that i could hide behind and it wasn't until i was in probably the the fourth year comprehensive school the senior school where two drama teachers came into the school and up until that point we'd only ever a read about drama we read plays and discussed them and these these incredible women came into the school viv stewart and carol walker and they kind of knew what was going on in the background they knew what was happening with with ah kind of stepdad and all these things. And they very quickly got me involved in these drama classes and um and and kind of finding ways to express myself through writing. And I used to love writing stories and and that was it. My art and my drama and my English was was everything I loved. And so very quickly it was put them in a school play and then I was doing these things. And then I realised I could sit in a room with a hundred people and make them laugh or make them cry.
00:14:06
Speaker
And this was like, wow, I'm connecting with people. So I completely fell in love with it and I completely lost myself in it. And then I would spend all any solitary time writing or coming up with ideas or even sometimes playing in the garden or walking down the street pretending I was some of the character or something. So I became very obsessed by it. And then it was just a automatic thing, joined drama groups. I found some like-minded people. So I then started making close friends and I went on from play to play to play.
00:14:36
Speaker
And suddenly people started asking me to do it as a ah job. And that was it. And um it was then theatre. And I did theatre for many, many years, starting in theatre and education or doing shows in prisons and detention centres and um community centres.
00:14:52
Speaker
And then it turned into theatres then from theatres turned into national tours, international tours, and then it was multimedia. And then a director saw me and put me in ah a movie and a TV show. And I got an agent in London and it just, it took on its own life.
Navigating Criticism and Imposter Syndrome
00:15:09
Speaker
um And I just went with it because... I didn't have any qualifications academically, so it seemed like the perfect lifestyle for me. um And I didn't really have a home to speak of, so it was lovely just to be touring all the time and going to jobs and staying in hotels and being with people who felt kind of nomadic.
00:15:29
Speaker
I sort of had some questions about like how, you know, when you've, when you've got sort of an early role in a chore, how does it get to a point where you go from, this is a role in something to this is like a career, but it sounds like it's, it's kind of just everything kept unfolding. Yeah. Yeah, there was no kind of one thing.
00:15:49
Speaker
um It was very much one one i and once I felt that need to express myself in performance, that became, and I knew it from the age of, like i say, 14, that was it. I knew I wanted to act.
00:16:02
Speaker
There was no other way around. And if I wasn't acting, I wanted to create and I wanted to kind of produce work. and and nothing else seemed to offer me any scope. I would find myself even, i got i got a job as a glass collector,
00:16:16
Speaker
to make money on weekends. And by the time I'd been there six months, a friend of mine who was also glass collecting with me, we used to have this routine where we'd, when there was big functions, we'd have these characters we'd play, like these ridiculous waiters, glass collectors, but we would we would create like a dance and see how how far we could dance with the highest collection of glasses.
00:16:40
Speaker
And then from that, When there was a song on in front of the crowd, we'd get up and start doing these silly little duos. Next minute, we were asked to do sketch shows. Then we started DJing. Then we would do DJing with sketch shows. And then we ended up used to have our own monthly. um It was called Mad Cap and Crazy. It was like some crazy, weird hybrid of a sketch show with music. And we would do that once a month.
00:17:04
Speaker
And it it got bigger and bigger and bigger. and so no matter where I worked or what I did, performance ended up coming into it. And then I would either get asked to go and do something else or then would give me an opportunity to perform. It sounds like a lot a lot of those early things were you're just having a lot of fun and opportunities keep coming up. I mean, is there is there any kind of drop off in the aspect aspect of it when it becomes more of a career? A job. um Yes, it it comes with a responsibility in the way of, ah that this is what I was saying before, you know, 35 years later, i have the crisis that I didn't deal with way back when I started out, and that is very quickly I became quite successful in theatre. So the reviews were coming in thick and fast, and people were like, this guy's good, and I was getting offered lead roles and doing big shows.
00:17:53
Speaker
And Straight away, when that happens, you get a lot of criticism. You get a lot of people who who put you down, who judge ye and you. And you can kind of get ah swept away by the insecurity. and And again, because I didn't go to drama school, because I didn't have academic qualifications, I always seemed to have a bit of a chip on my shoulder. And I was always worried that maybe I'm a fraud. So that became harder to deal with.
00:18:22
Speaker
But I was able to put it off for for many, many years because when once I got into the role or once I was on stage or in front of a camera, I would switch off. But then, like I say, getting to turning 50, you know, just a year before you turn 50 and suddenly you have the biggest fear factor hit you.
00:18:41
Speaker
And that's purely down to those shadows never being dealt with, never putting
Authenticity in Acting and Life
00:18:46
Speaker
light on them. So, yeah, there is a drop off and there is a responsibility that comes from it. And when things aren't good, you can tend to fall into the trap of the party scene of, I would say, late early 2000s being actor.
00:19:00
Speaker
was very different to what it probably is today. But the lifestyle of being an actor, the kind of bohemian madness of it all, became sometimes far more exciting than the job.
00:19:10
Speaker
And that also brings with it destructive self-sabotaging behaviour. You've said that um a lot of what you do when you work with actors now is sort of encouraging them to to understand themselves in in that way that maybe you didn't earlier on. What does that look like then? i imagine there's there's a lot of getting to a point where you can sort of go there and talk to somebody about that. um I imagine there's a lot of people you work with who are not necessarily looking for that to to start with. how How does that process work?
00:19:39
Speaker
Well, I think, again, you know, when you're training to be an actor, and and and my training was very much on the job, but I did do workshops and attended workshops with various practitioners, and the the art of acting itself,
00:19:52
Speaker
comes with um a kind of self-revelation. It's almost you become your own counsellor um because of the work you do as an actor, the different techniques that you use. um they They demand that you go somewhere deeper within yourself in order to be able to portray that level of character and that honesty of the character. So it doesn't matter which which area of the creative arts you work in, in order to tell the story or in order to portray the story in the right way, depending on which level you're at, producing, directing, writing, composing, anything, there is a level of truth and adaptability that can only come from the work on the internal.
00:20:36
Speaker
You can put on the costume, you can put on the makeup, you can turn up in the scene and hit your mark, but if you haven't connected... on a deeper, ah more kind of um intimate level, then that character is going to be very surface.
00:20:51
Speaker
so So the work you do as an actor works hand in hand with the kind of human behavioural aspects. So when I work with people either individually or in a group setting, what I'm trying to get them to do, is the character can be used to keep you in the third person so you don't get too objective or too emotional.
00:21:13
Speaker
So you can criticise it, you can look at it, but ultimately when you strip all of that away, You're left with the rawness, which is the actor who is portraying that part. Then you go deeper with the actor to get them to start reacting the way they would, should they be in the circumstances of that particular character. And then you see some magnificent transformations from actors, like incredible. But it's ah it's not an easy journey, but it's certainly one worthwhile if you're going to excel with the talents you have. It sort of brings to mind that someone talked to Dan, Dan Lemon about when I did his episode, it is this idea that it's like acting advice is real life advice. Since I've started to go to the Actors Forge and think, I'm going to stand up and do something instead of hide at the back and not do something. I've also started to apply that to you know other situations in life, like things literally as simple as... I don't know, like general conversations and things. And it's like, but it's this thing is like people, people go, Oh, you must be an actor. You're confident. And it, but it's like, it's not as simple as acting equals confidence. It's like, there's a genuine lesson in that that applies to both situations.
00:22:21
Speaker
And you know, when, when I do workshops, it's It's easier now when and and things like that. But in the past, sometimes there there was a thing that kept coming up for me. When anybody asked me to do some public speaking, I would literally dry up in the mouth. My body would shake and hands would shake. My legs would go. It terrified me. And everyone go, you're actor.
00:22:43
Speaker
And again, this is this is the whole point. to To be able to play another character, there is one character you have to know inside out and the part to play is yourself. there is And i'm I'm literally writing about it at the moment. i'm I'm doing a piece called A Part to Play. And it is all about that that kind of journey with the self in order to connect to what your true creativity is.
00:23:05
Speaker
and And it's a very big journey. But for creatives, it's the one that sets you free. It's the one that allows you suddenly to realise that you don't have to categorise your talent either. You don't have to say, I just do this. I'm just the actor. I'm just a writer. oh I'm just this.
00:23:24
Speaker
You can be everything and anything so long as you know the part you're playing and as so long as you know who you are as a creative entity. We always hear actors talk about, you know, um we want to get the truth over. We want to play the character in the most honest way.
00:23:39
Speaker
Well, the only way to react accordingly or to react honestly or to put yourself in a situation that that you've never been in before and portray that journey, it's completely irrelevant to say you can't pretend to react accordingly.
00:23:56
Speaker
because then it comes across false. So the only way you can do it is by believing that you are in that moment at that time with those circumstances facing what is happening.
00:24:07
Speaker
And if you react pretending, well, this will look good and they'll like it when I do this, you know, and and you're aware of yourself, It never comes across honest and people see through it. If you're doing a scene and it's emotional and, you know, sometimes you'll see it in a script and, you know, Joe breaks down and cries. Now, if you're doing that scene and you don't feel like you want to cry and then you try to create the feeling of crying and try to show people that you're crying at that point, inevitably it's going to look false because people tend to go... and hide their faces because we know they're not crying or they get a tear stick and it and it just drops at a perfect so we know they're not crying if somebody reacts to it from a real sense of being and what it is to be human and what it is to understand being in that situation the tears will roll the breath pattern will happen and you will emotionally engage an audience there's nothing complex in that it's just honesty Yeah, it's actually, it's just come back to me, something else you'd said in that that class. Dying's not about dying, it's about trying to stay alive. And if you're performing that, you're not you're not going, yeah. Exactly. When when people are when people are being killed, they're not trying to show you how to die, they're trying to survive.
00:25:24
Speaker
They want to live. And so it's the complete opposite. And it's the same with playing a hard man. I've played a lot of villains in my time. But if if you try and show somebody, I am hard, there's nothing hard in that.
00:25:36
Speaker
if if you If you are hard and you're a villain and a criminal or a killer, you don't have to prove anything because you kill. That's it. There's nothing else to be truthful about there. I am going to kill you. That is it. It's why some of the scarier performances are ah like a lot calmer rather than of the top is what you're saying and it there's nothing nothing to prove yeah as humans we hide what we are to fit in so it doesn't matter which character you're playing when when there is a truth to be told in the scene human beings automatically find truth difficult because it puts you in a vulnerable position so when you react how it really feels to tell somebody you love them or how it really feels to tell somebody you want to leave them
00:26:17
Speaker
Both instances are vulnerable and scary, and it comes with a huge ah kind of feedback. You know, when when you see an actor on on a scene falling in love, and you can see the vulnerability of and how beautiful that is to fall in love, just as the same when somebody is distraught and upset and they've lost a loved one.
00:26:38
Speaker
If you're not connecting with that from a real place, people switch off. The audience is just going, meh, no thanks.
Human Creativity vs. AI
00:26:45
Speaker
That's exactly why when it sort of follows a formula or something, it is, it's, it's,
00:26:50
Speaker
I guess it even goes up to things like, you know, why it's going to be terrible when AI takes over everything? Because we're not connecting with something. there's ah There's an algorithm that's created these things that have been churned out because it drives engagement or whatever. Well, exactly. And this is the thing, the shortcut to performance is never going to be satisfied.
00:27:08
Speaker
it's It's the same with a an animation. we can We can cry and laugh at the animations. The ability to really transcend the performance comes from those those oddities that we bring to it.
00:27:21
Speaker
You know, an AI won't bring an oddity, even down to voiceover. If I'm in a booth and I'm doing a voiceover scene for a character and ah do something that just happens because uniquely it's happening to me at this moment or I might, I don't know, bang something on the wall and it triggers something else.
00:27:39
Speaker
But those accidental things... They are what makes things interesting and exciting. That's what connects an audience. AI is never going to give you accidental results.
00:27:50
Speaker
So the gold isn't there. it's It's surface level. It can only help to, I think, efficiently and beautifully sometimes enhance what we do as humans. And that's how it should be used. The animation comparison is a good one because my favorite example is like, you know, there's the original Lion King, which is all hand-drawn, and then there's the more recent one, which is all very realistic. And it's like, it is the the sort of stylistic flourish of the original that yeah connects me to that story, not these real-looking lions. Yeah.
00:28:19
Speaker
we want to We want to leave reality when we're watching animation. We want to go somewhere else. we we We see real people every day. It was like the Polar Express. i thought it was a beautiful movie. But there was a bit of me going, hmm.
00:28:33
Speaker
I feel slightly cold to it. Yeah. You know, the starey eyes and the, it's just a bit weird. Yeah. It's like the, it's like the uncanny valley kind of idea. Like it happens with a lot of, a lot of games and stuff as well, where you're like, this looks really real, but it's like, I'm not connecting. Yeah, exactly. and And that's what we crave as human beings. We we want connection. um Okay. So I kind of wondered about, um about Newtown artists. um Yeah. Newtown artist management. Yeah. So that's something you've gotten into since 2020. So what what what sort of led to led to that? Again, the pandemic.
00:29:08
Speaker
um it it you know It was so crushing to see agents dropping actors left, right and centre and management companies dropping agents. um the The whole industry, in in a way, kind of turned its back on itself.
00:29:22
Speaker
um And so very quickly, we we set up a kind of community radio station where I was interviewing people from the past who I'd worked with and things. And we had great fun doing it. But I was also mentoring a lot of people online.
00:29:36
Speaker
So professionals and non-professionals and trying to, again, just just support people through their kind of creative journeys. And I was trying to connect actors who lost their agents to new agents um and see what I could do.
00:29:51
Speaker
And Andrea, my my partner, was kind of watching me going, why are you doing that? And I was like, well, I kind of want to help people get into the industry. I don't want it to stop. um And we don't know when it's going to open again. So...
00:30:03
Speaker
we We should be supporting the creatives. And Andrea said, well, then don't don't just put them with another agent. Stick with them. We'll set up an agency. So it was Andrea's idea. And there's only a couple of agencies up in the Northeast.
00:30:18
Speaker
So we were like, we we really do want to support regional actors. But also, very quickly, by the time we put it out and set it up, we We got people from the States calling us. We had people across Europe calling us. And it just kind of seemed like a natural movement. You know, my my job was to kind of connect the industry side to it.
00:30:39
Speaker
um And Andrea um was there to kind of deal with the day-to-day running, the negotiations and contracts and things. And And now we're looking in the new year to get ready to to really expand, which is going to be quite exciting. So we can support more in the region as well. It might seem like a silly question, but if you run an agency, like why are you not your own agent? It's so it's very simple. i mean, I've only had two agents in 35 years. I'm extremely loyal to to people who've represented me. and And my first agent, you know, he kind of passed away, but we we stayed friends right up until he did. And um my second agent, she she was just incredible. And when when we set up the talent agency, I actually did leave my agent.
00:31:27
Speaker
And then Andrea now manages me. But if if I'm being asked to do something for a film as an actor or even a director or whatever, Andrea being my manager now allows me not to have...
00:31:40
Speaker
the one-to-one of doing my own deal because what tends to happen as a creative is if if I come up to you and say look I thought you were great in that performance I would love you to be in this movie our instinct automatically is to that would be great and then you get invited to a room with the producers and the producer goes so do you want to do this yeah would love to do it okay well look we've only got this much for you and you go oh no that's fine I'll take it OK, and you you got a hotel room, but you're in that little room down there and it it doesn't have a tap or a window. are you OK with that? Yeah, I'll do it because we want to work.
00:32:13
Speaker
So your agent really is the person who can be the disconnect. And then what happens is she can have the conversations or he can have the conversations about what you need while you're working on that film. where that film is going, they can look at the whole cast and crew and say, do we even want to be associated with this? Are they going to look after you? Are they going to pay you right? She's going to ask all the uncomfortable questions that you would then, in a way, break your relationship with your director.
00:32:43
Speaker
So it it stops you from getting into that compromised position where you just say yes to everything because you want the job. Yeah, I think as well, actually, we are putting it like that. I'm like, if I'm ever in any of those situations, I'm going to just go, yeah, yeah, that's fine for everything. If someone says you're in a tiny hotel room and you're getting paid a tenant, I'd be like, yeah, that's fine. Yeah, exactly. and And actually, that's the problem now, because so many people are making content, and and the digital age has meant that everybody and anybody is saying they're at a filmmaker, but but there's a responsibility to filmmaking.
00:33:18
Speaker
And so you need somebody to have that.
Newtown Artist Management
00:33:21
Speaker
And a lot of people go, well, it was my mate giving me the job. So why should I pay my agent? Why? Because if anything goes wrong and that friendship falls apart or something really bad goes on legally, you have somebody who has your back.
00:33:35
Speaker
So the my rule, and it's always been the rule I've told people, and I've always done this, even if and when friends who are very you know prolific directors have said, I'd love you to be in this, I go, absolutely, I'll read the script and I'm interested, but speak to my agent.
00:33:52
Speaker
Because then i can hear what they say to the agent. My agent can then bring that back to me. I can then put my ideas to the agent, but the agent can go to the producers and the director saying, well, actually, we need this in place or we'd like this. We're not so sure about these scenes. there there who Have you got an intimacy coordinator? Have you got this going on? You know, is all the right things in place?
00:34:14
Speaker
There's so many things that can go wrong in film. you need protection. You just do. And agents are very good at that. But the self-representation route has meant that a lot of people...
00:34:26
Speaker
just kind of put themselves in very compromised positions. and And I think it's it's a shame that a lot of actors think it's a one-way relationship. they They look at agents as if to say, you get me work. Well, that's not how it works.
00:34:40
Speaker
It's a two-way relationship where you you lead off each other's strengths. And when you are working, whether a friend got you the job or you knew the person who got you the job, while you're on set working,
00:34:52
Speaker
The agent is working every single day, sometimes seven days a week, trying to find you the next job and using what you're doing to showcase or push you through to the next job. So, you know, it's ah it's a thankless task for an agent because people love you when you're getting work, but they hate you when the phone's not ringing.
00:35:09
Speaker
You know, i think um something I'm kind of learning, like, as I've done these conversations and talked to, her and there's Laura Daly, who does the actors for, she sort of represents some people as well. And she told this story where... um where it ended up being something she would do in any way and she'd kind of, she'd been like sort of formally taken on doing it, but it was something she would do in any way. And that's quite similar to what what you said about you were connecting all these people and it was, why don't you actually be the agency? And it's really sort of, I've always been terrified of the idea of agents because there's something about agents where it's like they have a knowledge and it's like this fear that I, it's probably the same imposter syndrome type thing I've been talking about. It's like, it's as if like,
00:35:58
Speaker
is it a situation where I have to pretend to have a certain kind of knowledge? And, but it's like, when I'm talking to people like you and Laura, it's like, actually these people get into this because it is about helping people and sort of providing that support. Yeah. And, and Andrea, you know, the, the, the thing is Andrea,
00:36:17
Speaker
got her degree in in um performing arts and creative industries way back at Sunderland University. And then her life kind of changed, you know, but we we went to college together doing performing arts.
00:36:31
Speaker
um So we've known each other for many, many years. And it's funny because she's always had that burning desire to be connected to the industry. And for years, she went a different way. But Now, I mean, you know, that there are times where she's on the phone in different time zones um and she'll be working until 12, 1, 2 in the morning. If somebody phones and they feel personally that they're having a hard time, sometimes it's just about getting on the phone and letting them have a cry and and have her speak to them and being a friend and being a companion. And that's, again, there's lots of agents who don't do that, but we stick by people and the help is there as much as you can. So it' it's a...
00:37:11
Speaker
It's a really full-on job, and it starts, like i say, from anywhere in the morning, from 7, 8 o'clock in the morning till at least 12, 1 o'clock in the morning. It's a long, long day. Okay, so we're kind of coming coming close to an hour now, so I always just kind of like to, for the last little section, talk to people about a film or a piece of other media that is important to them. um Usually I'd make someone tell me in advance because i try and watch it, but but I think... Things came together a little bit quickly. um So I kind of gave you some warning. So do you have a favourite film slash one that is important to you? Yes, I do. um
00:37:47
Speaker
I think i think one of one of the films that I really do love and adore is, um and it's ah it's a film that I was part of, and it's called Romans 1220. And it was written by BAFTA award-winning writer Jeff Thompson.
00:38:03
Speaker
And it's directed by the Shamasian brothers, Ludwig and Paul. And we shot it many years ago.
Exploring Sensitive Topics in Film
00:38:09
Speaker
And it's available, think, on YouTube now. It's Romans1220.com. And it's either on there or on Vimeo.
00:38:18
Speaker
But it was a half hour short that we did. And it's it's based on a true story because of the the writer and his experiences as a child. And it's all about the kind of male sexual abuse. But it's such a it was such a liberating film to be a part of from a personal level, but also on a creative level.
00:38:37
Speaker
Because our that film allowed me to see that the the real power behind what we do. is as creators of of of performance um and what we do as filmmakers and storytellers. and it And it later on got turned into a feature film, which are ah Orlando Bloom stepped in in my role because he was more famous. and But again, that's OK because they have to sell that film at that level. So it wasn't down to the directors. It was down to the producers at the time.
00:39:05
Speaker
but um But nevertheless, to see it go from what was originally a short film to a feature film, but to have the... um the the backing, the support. And it and it really did um have quite an impact around the world because it won pretty much every festival it played at.
00:39:25
Speaker
So that would that was a that was something I think I'll always be proud of. And I ended up doing two one-man theatre shows because of that. um So it it had a big, long-lasting effect and the people are still very good friends now, all these years later.
00:39:40
Speaker
um So if you if you get a chance to have ah a watch of that, Get yourselves on and and see what you think. I've got it open in another window. I'm going to give it a look. I look forward to watching it. So, I mean, did you watch the feature film? I mean, how was that? I think I watched a rough cut. And, you know, fine. Yeah. It's, yeah.
00:40:00
Speaker
Yeah, but you have the attachment to the show. Well, it was a shame to have been with it all that way. And then, you know, and they were very honest about it. It was like, look, Craig, you're just not, you're not big enough to be able to sell the movie, which is what happens.
00:40:16
Speaker
And unfortunately, that's part of the industry as well that you have to accept. But again, you know I've been very blessed. and And last year I got to direct my first feature. So I kind of know that process as well and what the what that feels like. Is ah is it awkward if you if you were ever in a room with Orlando Bloom? would it be Would it be awkward? No, it might be for him because he'll see what it's like to stand next to true talent. Yeah. That's bad. It's fighting talk. No, I mean, oh I'd love to, sorry, we've gone through and i wanted to ask you all about um Little Red and everything, but... Well, I'll tell you quickly, Little Red, um you know, will be out next year. It's definitely going to have its world premiere and it's going to be out there. we i don't know the full ins and outs yet. The producers have all the information, but it's now called Red Riding.
00:41:05
Speaker
um So, and but it's but it's wonderful. And I have to say, Victoria Tate, who plays the lead, She is one extremely incredible talented actress, um as are all the cast. But what she goes through in that movie is is quite brutal.
00:41:23
Speaker
And it's it's definitely got an original edge. It's got a good northeast actors in it as well. and The support and cast are incredible, but the principal characters and cast have come together.
00:41:35
Speaker
and And I could not be more proud of of what we've achieved on, you know, what is considerably a low budget. But the passion and the admiration I have for everybody who who came on that, and especially the the producer, Daniel Patrick Vaughan, who's also the DOP, we create something very
Upcoming Projects and Future Plans
00:41:52
Speaker
exciting. And I can't can't wait for people to see it. Whether they like it or hate it is fine. Yeah, I'm going to keep an out for it. Well, ah thank you so much for talking to me. um It really does mean mean a lot that you take the time and speak to me. um So I really appreciate it. I always end by just saying, is there anything you're working on that you want to mention? And can you tell people where to find you? Yes, I mean, I'm i'm on Conway's Insta and I think on Facebook, it's at the Craig Conway. Twitter, I don't really go on it.
00:42:20
Speaker
LinkedIn, I'm on there. At the moment, I'm literally working on a part to play, um which I'm hoping to to have ready to to go out, which will be a part of a community on school.
00:42:33
Speaker
um So i'm I'm just getting that ready. And then hopefully in the new year, I'll be doing some kind of retreat work where I can bring people and do weekend workshops and go a little bit deeper into that process. And on the side of that, I'm currently developing another feature film, which is getting ready to go. and Well, a couple of feature films and also more relationships with the education to employment sector and how we can support and inspire more people to get into the industry. And so all my efforts are in trying to create an equal ecosystem for the Northeast and attract people here to be educated, trained and put into work within the independent film
Closing and Season Reflection
00:43:14
Speaker
sector.
00:43:14
Speaker
So that there's going to be a few announcements next year. Wow. Okay. That all sounds so amazing. It'll be good. It'll be fun. Yeah. Oh, no. Thank you. Thank you so much for for talking to me. And all ah I'll see you later.
00:43:27
Speaker
You're very welcome. Thank you. Hello, it's just Ryan here. I'm just doing a bit of an extended outro because as you may be aware, this is the season finale of What Makes You Tick season one. It's been a lot of fun um doing this podcast since, well, since August is when I started recording it. I started releasing in September. but were It was about June came up with the idea to do it and it was just a bit of a bit of a situation where I was going to be out of work for a little while for positive reasons. ah But I was looking for something just to to keep me busy and maintain some kind of creative pursuit. The idea were always to, I guess, to give myself ah a creative project that I could stick with on a regular basis. And that's why it were all was always important to me to do it on a weekly basis.
00:44:11
Speaker
schedule and my goal was to run from September right through to Christmas which I worked out would be 16 episodes and that's exactly what I've done which is really it's really nice you know sometimes you're allowed to say you feel a little bit proud of yourself because you've managed to stick with a project And I guess I just kind of wanted to i just kind of wanted to note this at the end here, at the end of season one of the podcast. And um yeah, maybe one day I'll see you in the future. and Maybe there'll be another episode. I'm only joking. We're coming back for season two. We're coming back for season two. Season 2 will start on Wednesday the 4th of February.
00:44:48
Speaker
um Yeah, I'm gonna take Christmas off and then I'm gonna take January at least off of releasing episodes. I'll hopefully be recording most of season 2 throughout January. At the minute my plan is going forward basically to do one month off, two months on. So it'll be January off, February, March I'll release episodes, that'll be 8 episodes, then I'll have April off and then can't remember what month comes after April. May and June, then May and June will be our release episodes and and so on and so forth. That plan might change, but currently the idea is I'm going to be doing eight episode seasons with a month break in between each season. Yeah, so I guess um ah thank you just to everybody who's listened. is it's been like It's been amazing,
00:45:31
Speaker
the reception the reception to the podcast people have actually listened uh people have got in touch to tell me that they've enjoyed it i've have had a couple of people asked to be on the show uh i also just wanted to thank all of my guests again everyone who's been on the show uh i just it just means a lot that they talk to me um because you know a few months ago it's why why would anyone want to talk to me um And everyone's just just really sort I guess almost like legitimized my my idea by talking to me. So that is Dan Lemon, who's, you know, obviously very encouraging generally with the Actors Forge, but was also very encouraging when I mentioned starting the podcast to him. There was also Chris Darby, Laura Lee Daly, Leo Healy, Dan McQuaid, Samantha Castro, Jack Henry, who also very kindly was the first person I interviewed, which was ah nice of him. Rob Carr, Baldagneto, Pam Jackson, Adam Widrington, Craig Pearson, Rebecca Rogan, Paul Proctor, Eli Hartley, and of course, c Craig Conway. Also Josh Hunt.
00:46:33
Speaker
ah He's not been on the show yet. a Potential spoilers for season two. Probably loads of other people. I don't know. This is not an awards show. It was just meant to be a nice little end to the series. And now I'm sort worried that started going into kind of awards show. Oh no, the music's playing me off.
00:46:51
Speaker
One last time. What Makes You Tick is hosted, produced, and edited by me, Ryan Watson. Thank you to Craig Pearson for the show logo. The theme music is Silent Movie 91 by Sasha End.
00:47:02
Speaker
Thank you once again to Craig Conway for speaking to me for this episode. Next week, there's not there's not an episode, but maybe keep an eye on the feed because there might be something there might be something very, very silly dropping on there. Thank you so much for listening to season one of What Makes You Tick. I'll see you in February.