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Shapeshifter & Their Fun, Hoppy, Modern Beers
539 Plays1 month ago
"I think we got tagged early on as a hype brewery. We're not afraid to say that we were."
In the words of Willie Nelson, we’re on the road again for this episode – or at least we were – as our chat with James McCall and Carla Naismith of Shapeshifter Brewing is the last of the shows we recorded in Adelaide at the tail end of 2024.
James founded the brewery with Kevin Mulcahy after the pair met on a brewing course run by SA legend Stephen Nelsen. They launched their first beers before opening a brewery and quickly made a name for themselves on the back of some banging oat cream IPAs.
These days they brew and welcome punters to their brewpub home in Findon – part of a brewery circuit in Adelaide’s west – and continue to experiment with new styles, techniques, and ingredients, with a particular fondness for hops.
As well as delving into their stories and the evolution of Shapeshifter, we discuss some of the issues still impacting many in the beer and hospitality negatively, as well as steps that can be taken to make it a more inclusive and welcoming industry.
Prior to the main interview, Will and James discuss the week’s news, including Sydney Brewery’s acquisition of Rocks Brewing from liquidators, the inspiring tale of the mates behind Auslan Beers, and the continuing mainstream media coverage of the unfair excise tax system and its impact on brewers, venues, retailers and drinkers alike.
Funnily enough, it was podcast regular Craig Williams – back here with Hendo for some more Rockstar Brewer Academy advice – who landed on the TV news and Sunrise off the back of a viral video he shot about beer’s “fifth ingredient” with his Blackflag Brewing hat on.
Don’t forget to get your nominations in for the Bluestone Yeast Brewery of the Month and, if you’re in Sydney on February 26, James is hosting an Ale Trail Blind Tasting Face-Off at Hopsters. Just ten tickets left when this show was uploaded – ticket link below.
Start of segments:
- 10:12 – James & Carla Part 1
- 32:13 – Rockstar Brewer Academy
- 38:21 – James & Carla Part 2
Relevant links:
- Shapeshifter Brewing
- Brew & A: Carla Naismith
- Sydney Brewery Take Over Rocks
- Auslan Beers
- Beer Tax on TV
- Ale Trail Blind Tasting
- Bluestone Yeast Brewery of the Month
- The High Country Hop
- Rockstar Brewer Academy
- FOBOH
To find out more about supporting the show or otherwise partnering with The Crafty Pint, contact craig@craftypint.com.
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Transcript
Sydney Brewery Acquires Rocks Brewing
00:00:06
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Crafty Pint Podcast. I'm Will. I'm James and yes, welcome back. and Have you been Will? Very well, very well. We've been together a lot recently because we're recording a lot of podcasts.
00:00:17
Speaker
We may well movies together, let's be honest. That you will hear very soon and we've got an awesome one from our road trip last year to come as well. But before we get into it, Sydney Brewery has bought Rox Brewing. Yeah, yeah, that was something that i think we sort of first heard about two or three weeks ago. um However, they wanted sort of get their house in order, yeah um put some branding up at Rocks Brewing. So for those don't know, Rocks Brewing was pretty substantial operation in Alexandria um in Sydney. went into administration last year.
00:00:47
Speaker
and Unfortunately, the owners weren't able to um find, ah I guess, a means of bringing it back. i'm Sydney Brewery has been... being around in one form or another for best part of 20 years now. It was originally the Schwartz Brewery ah based in the basement of the Macquarie Hotel in Sydney, um became a Sydney brewery, has a brew pub in Surrey Hills and larger brewery in Hunter Valley.
00:01:07
Speaker
It's now taking this over and expanding their Lovedale Brewery. So clearly things are going well for that group, which is, I want to say group, like it's, the jerry The Schwartz family group has hotels that they went into partnership with the team behind Spectacular and Gabs and a whole bunch of beer festivals and other festivals last year.
00:01:24
Speaker
So it's quite the sort of network. Presumably they're going to plug their beers into a lot of that, but also must be selling, you know... but selling or planning to sell a lot more beer outside of that as well? ah Yes, they have ah put a few job ads up for salespeople, so they're obviously looking at that. But if you look at the story, I mean, the media release, they they're quite open about how they do have that network of hotels that they can sell their beer into, which is um really...
00:01:45
Speaker
obviously a big market for them and that they they've obviously been hitting their capacity for a long time. Rocks is a really substantial yeah brewery. They're brewing their own beers and a lot of contract um for others as well. So um this will really sort of see them expand quite dramatically. Yeah, well, it was a pretty sizable venue and they've also held a number of major events there. They used to the South Sydney Oktoberfest there and bring in other brewers from around the region like Frenchies, you know, i think One Drop and stuff used to pour there. So interesting to see if that gives them an opportunity to do more beer festivals as well. Like they do the Canberra Beer and Cider Festivals coming up in March at one of their other hotels in Canberra.
Auslan Beers Group: Accessibility in Beer Industry
00:02:23
Speaker
So whether this is they see this as an opportunity to not just brew more beer but actually have another
00:02:28
Speaker
venue and sort of a festival events venue you'll be interesting to see um i guess that's on a sort of more industry focused side of things a a story i love that you put together this week that i first heard about from gab at sailor's grave over the over the summer um yeah really interesting um yes story about ausland beers Yeah, so that's a group of um members of the deaf community who have started an Instagram together or did during lockdown rather. And, um you know, that they post these reels where they review beers in Auslan, which is the sign language of Australians in the deaf community.
00:03:01
Speaker
And ah yeah, they've sort of... realized they hit sort of more people than I think they thought they would. that They put it together as a group of friends sort of looking to share it between their mates, but um they all of a sudden they had international followers and lot of local followers, people interested in what they do. So they have sort of pivoted it to a degree and they really want it use it as a way to champion to talk about accessibility within beer as well kind of making set spaces better for members of the deaf community um since we ran the article i've had a couple of emails back and forth with the team so we're sort of hoping to see how we can talk to them more and sort of work things out it's very early day days yet but yeah i'm always interested in how we can make um
00:03:42
Speaker
Beer space is better for um people who traditionally probably haven't just been in them. Yeah, well, they were saying that some beer fest in Melbourne recently, they had Auslan Interpreter for the comedy east stage, for example. Yeah, that yeah and and Melbourne Comedy Festival, which is I go to a lot, you have noticed over the years the use of Auslan has really expanded, a lot of gigs and festival music festivals as well. So I think... um These things, that they can sort of, once you get started and once people become more aware of them, you'd hope that they can build them into their, whether it's festivals or tap rooms to a certain degree, I mean. But there's even simple stuff they talk about, like, you know, they hate seeing videos, reels posted on Instagram that don't have captions because they just can't be involved with that at all. And and they love seeing recipes from breweries online as well. so they can More information. Yeah. Every stands at festivals, for example, just yeah just more information that can be provided, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So they're not missing out on um an industry that they love.
00:04:35
Speaker
Yeah, yeah.
Bluestone Yeast Brewery of the Month Nominations
00:04:36
Speaker
um Yeah, and some of us we first mentioned last week, still seeking nominations, the Bluestone Yeast Brewery of the Month. A chance for anyone to nominate their favourite local brewery or and maybe one they visited on the road or...
00:04:50
Speaker
a small one that maybe people might not know about. Yes, I was back at mine, which was Bridge Road Brewers, East Brunswick, because I saw another movie last night. The movie was no good, but I can't blame the brewery for that. The beers were tasting great, so that's what matters. Both in the cinema as well, they have Bridge Road Brewers beers in there, which is good to see. So if you want to nominate your breweries, head to craftypint.com slash bluestone, B-L-U-E-S-T-O-N-E.
00:05:15
Speaker
I think I can still spell. um And, yeah, we'll be reading out the the first winners in a couple of podcast time. um Now, I think we we mentioned last week, or maybe it the newsletter last week, and that Craig, who does all the segments and occasionally appears with us on the podcast,
00:05:30
Speaker
um With his black flag brewing hat on the Sunshine Coast, he put together a fun little video about the beer's fishing beers's fifth ingredient being excise tax. um Within 24 hours of it going viral last week, he was on the local 7 News in in ah Queensland.
00:05:46
Speaker
He's since been on with Karl Stefanovich on Sunrise um earlier in the week, so you should be able to find that video online.
Black Flag Brewing's Viral Excise Tax Video
00:05:53
Speaker
um And, yeah, I mean, it's been... The card seems to use it as a moment to plug Traveller instead yeah rather than Black Flag. But it's been really interesting to see this momentum continuing to build. It's been happening for a while. um You know, obviously the IBA has been putting a lot of messaging out there. A lot of small breweries have been doing it a lot of other people have been doing it. but the momentum is gathering. It does seem to be getting picked up by the the mainstream media pretty much every time someone puts their head above the parapet in a fun or interesting or just eye-catching way about what's actually happening at the minute.
00:06:23
Speaker
Yeah. And I think while the IBA can sort of lead this from the top down, obviously some of the videos and the virality around them are showing that once breweries kind of get their hands on them and and run with them in a creative way, which breweries are the ones with the marketing teams, not the IBA, like you can really cut through in ah in a really good way. And whether that's small breweries in tiny towns that that still have local media and things like that, like There's a lot of chances here to to really make a lot of noise before the federal election.
00:06:53
Speaker
And is virality an actual word, Will? Is it? Is it not? going to look it up. it is I've learned something in my advanced years. I'll make a note to check that out later. if If so, I'm going to be using it as as frequently as I can. I'll just do what I normally do and pretend it's Gen Z speak and and no one will correct me on it.
00:07:11
Speaker
Excellent.
Will's Sydney Brewery Visit and Event at Hopsters
00:07:12
Speaker
Yeah. So, yeah, worth checking out there the even on Sunrise on Seven or Shared It or on the Black Flag and social pages. i'm A bit of a plug for, I guess, myself, ourselves. I'm going to be in Sydney next week, i just visiting a few breweries, recording a few podcasts, but also doing an event at Hopsters in Enmore on Wednesday night. um It's our first blind tasting of 2025.
00:07:34
Speaker
One of our rides up there, Jason, suggested a bit of a twist. We made it sort of an ale trail versus ale trail thing. So we've got four breweries from the Brookie Trail, four breweries from the Inner West Ale Trail, which Jason happens to work for. So now I'm like, it was just basically really using the... We'll see he wins....and four from the South Coast Trail.
00:07:51
Speaker
So you can find details on that on the Crafty Pine events page and hopefully see some of you there. There's discounts for Hopsters members and for our Crafty Cabal members as well. um And i guess aside from that, looking ahead to our main guests, which were the one of the four interviews we put down last year on the road to SA, Will.
00:08:08
Speaker
Yeah, so we're chatting with James McCall and Carla Naismith at Shapeshifter. James co-founded the brewery along with Kev and Carla's the senior brewer there. It's a really great chat. Yeah.
00:08:20
Speaker
Brewer, people who know their beers will know them pretty well. They're quote unquote, a hype brewery. I think both of them refer refer to themselves as that a few times. They're doing a lot of interesting stuff with ingredients. They're always on the front foot with um processes and styles and things like that.
00:08:34
Speaker
They're also making really great beers. I love playing with hops. Yeah, exactly. And so we go through that. They also have a lot of love for traditional lagers and things like that. it really covers a full spectrum of what they do and how they built the brewery and um also a lot of other important conversations about... The issues and the... Yeah. it Yeah. It's still impacting the industry and that perhaps aren't being talked about as much as they were a few years ago.
00:08:57
Speaker
um So that's up after the break. um Before then, though, Will... Before we get to the show, make sure you like and subscribe and review. We've been told that's very important. So please review us as well. Cheers.
00:09:08
Speaker
Cheers.
00:09:13
Speaker
Beer music and food lovers, rejoice because tickets are on sale for the 10th annual High Country Hop Festival in Beechworth. Taste fresh hop harvest beers from Australia's best indie brewers, Bridge Road Brewers, Mountain Culture, Range, Wildflower, Love Shack and Kaiju. Plus the High Country's famed local breweries, winemakers, craft distillers and more.
00:09:36
Speaker
See Japanese good time rockers the five six seven eight in their only not-yet-sold-out Victorian show, alongside ARIA winner, Kite, and folk legend Darren Hanlon.
00:09:47
Speaker
With an inspired food line-up headlined by some of Australia's most inventive chefs and iconic Box Wars workshops for kids, it's a family-friendly day out. An unmissable beer, food, and music festival for all.
00:10:00
Speaker
Saturday, March 22nd, in High Country Beachworth. Tickets on sale now at thehighcountryhop.com.au. Hosted by Bridge Road Brewers.
Shapeshifter Brewery Origins and Philosophy
00:10:14
Speaker
Carla and James, thanks for joining us. Thanks for having us. Thanks. So for those who are unfortunate enough to not know much about Shapeshifter, do you want to start by telling us who Shapeshifter is as a brewery?
00:10:26
Speaker
Well, Shapeshifter is myself and my co-founder Kev. So yeah, we started back in, well, we met in 2016. Shapeshifter started officially in 2019. And yeah, we focus on making fun, hobby, modern, experimental style beers.
00:10:45
Speaker
Anything else? I forgot the question. That's good. that's good of I think it'd be good to understand how you and Kev met as well. You were both homebrewers and that's, I guess, what you can tell us how it all came together. Yeah, sure. Yeah. so we met at TAFE here in Adelaide.
00:11:01
Speaker
we We did the course under Stephen Nelson. So we yeah we in October 2016, we had both been homebrewers for a long time. I had decided I wanted to have a career change. So that was the first step in doing that from graphic design.
00:11:17
Speaker
um i had been a graphic designer for 16 years and it was time for something new. You must have started at the age of eight or something. Well, it was pretty much out of high school. Yeah. Um, it started as work experience. Um, and then I was there for probably a little bit too long to, that kind of sparked the urge to find something new. So I decided to turn my hobby into a career, which they always suggest you do. Um, yeah. So anyway, uh, yeah, Kevin, were classmates there and, uh, after it all wrapped up,
00:11:45
Speaker
I still wanted to you know start my own brewery. We are started going our own separate ways after the end of the course. And after about six months, we decided this is way too hard to go alone. yeah Also, he was both of you were going to start separate. Yeah, we we never intended initially to to start a brewery together. um But I think you'll see a lot of breweries, at least two people.
00:12:11
Speaker
It's pretty rare to see one person as a founder, but there are that they are out there. But it's bloody hard work. Whose name was Shapeshifter originally? um I think we both had lists of... dozens and dozens of names um i can't remember who landed on it but the other key metric was is the website available or is it easy to say also the all instagram handles yeah is that all available can someone spell it if you say it um so yeah there were just any other good names among amongst the long lists that were cast aside not that i can recall a lot of them were um
00:12:47
Speaker
but based on the location that we were looking at. So we did have like Bowdoin Brewing. We were actually... and That sounds awful. There was, you know, there was a few other places around Adelaide, but I'm kind of glad we ended up with one that that wasn't location-based.
00:13:03
Speaker
And yeah, it turned out to be a good one. So yeah, after a few months of us you know, going out alone. Um, I think after a particularly bad day ah my day job, I called Kev up and i'm like, nah, I'm done. Let's, let's have a coffee. So you become the mates whilst doing the course at the time. Yeah. Yeah. We, we were all ah pretty close, um, as a, as a class, but we, we did have discussions while were there. Um, Kev was, you know, keen to find someone with,
00:13:30
Speaker
you know that was keen to do the brewing first and foremost, and I was looking for someone that had good business background. So we, you know, with a good yin yang there. um So, yeah, when we decided to pair up, it was kind of based on that. And then, yeah you know, figuring out all the hurdles into opening any business, but brewing specifically with all the red tape and all that, it was it was good to have two heads rather than one.
00:13:52
Speaker
and kev's you were graphic design for hand care laws uh kev's got a background uh he was a radio dj for a lot of his life um and then he had a string of some news agents was his previous business before that um so he's he's worked in in large business chain businesses and um you know, ah but obviously um had a love of beer and and was home brewing as well. But he, um you know, a lot of background in finance, business development and things like that, sales as well. So that was a good compliment.
00:14:22
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. As the team grew. Yeah. And the team grew pretty fast with Carla, one of the first hires. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So what was your background with beer then, Carla, prior to joining the team here?
00:14:33
Speaker
I have been in brewing about six years now. um I was in hospitality when I started. i fell in love with craft beer, um as as tends to happen to those of us who catch the bug.
00:14:48
Speaker
um So i was working in a venue that was craft beer focused and we had a little bottle shop that was attached to the pub I was working in as well. Very craft-centric. We were encouraged to drink and taste product from both on tap and in the bottle shop.
00:15:04
Speaker
And it really, something in my brain was like, how, what? And I remember drinking my first 750ml bottle of Wildflower. was Amber Blend. And just thinking, how is this done and how is this achieved? And I want to play in this space. so um started homebrewing with a friend and again, was just having the best time. I've always been um into baking and cooking and all that kind of stuff.
00:15:31
Speaker
And it felt like it ticked that box. But it also ticked the process side of my brain. So it's very left and right that ah you get the get both. And so started homebrewing. I was having a great time with that. And I was like, how? Is this a job? Is this ah is this a thing you can do for a living?
00:15:49
Speaker
And so started looking into it. And turns out there was a TAFE course. At the time, the price tag on the TAFE course was a little out of my um but price range. Bunch of no-hopers studying in there as well. Since then, the government actually paid for me to do that training, so that was nice. Thanks, thanks government.
00:16:08
Speaker
um but yeah so started home brewing was doing that having a great time and then decided that i needed to figure out how to make this happen as a job and so i left the venue i was working in and went to run um a tap room for a brewery and i used to just turn up on brew days and pester the brew team to let me do things so i would weigh out hop additions and squeegee the floor but in that process kind of absorbed things via osmosis and would take that home to the homebrew and, you know, apply it on my own scale and was just having a great time. So then in line with that, um that year we went to Beer and Barbecue Festival, a South Australian favourite, and –
00:16:53
Speaker
I had had a few beers one day. Surprise, surprise. And I met... Why else would you be there? Yeah, exactly. um And I met Aggie, who was at the time the head brewer of Spark, um which is ah how my career kind of really got its first foothold. So...
Carla Naismith's Brewing Journey
00:17:10
Speaker
Aggie and I were having a beer and a chat. i was a fan of what she was doing and and she offered me a job on the spot. so still And remember the next day. At the festival. And actually, if I'm honest, um she gave me a business card and I put it in my top pocket.
00:17:26
Speaker
And it wasn't until I found the business card in my pocket, I was like, oh, right. Okay. Yep. Good. Follow that up. um So yeah, got in touch with Aggie and she was in in a but position where she really needed some help. And yeah, so I started with her two weeks later and away we went. I guess where we first met, wasn't it? and Yeah. The world's smallest brewery. I think it was 20 square meters or something like that. Yeah. Yeah.
00:17:52
Speaker
The Pink Floor. Yeah. Yeah. But making of different beers, though. Yeah. Yeah. It was a really great place to start because the the remit of what we were doing was so broad.
00:18:03
Speaker
um And that paired with Aggie's background. You know, she was a great first head brewer to have as a mentor. She was she was really good. um But, yeah, um I only got to work with her for a relatively short period of time um before she went up the hill to mismatch.
00:18:20
Speaker
And then I basically ran that site for 18 months on planeway with with you know ah probably a year's worth of experience at that point. and So that was pretty challenging. Talk about deep end. But we got there.
00:18:33
Speaker
Nothing went super wrong. Yeah. um And from there, I went down to work with Tom at Loophole on the Limestone Coast. What an angel of a man. we're starting tomorrow. Yeah.
00:18:46
Speaker
Would have been a very different focus and brewery, though, than... So different. And it was absolutely the right next move, like Tom with his world of experience. Yeah, listeners, as his background was at Stone and Wood for a long time. very Yeah.
00:18:59
Speaker
Production driven, but I guess Lupole is making all kinds of interesting beers, including... Cygd as a Kevin Parker impersonator. Yeah, could. Absolutely. I think they're from the... Oh, Kevin Parker's WA, but like could they could be brothers. yeah um But at at the time, Tom had just won the trophy, but that we we won't talk about the trophy, but the trophy.
00:19:19
Speaker
um for the astrals and so for me that was like the perfect next step to go and learn more and grow more and for those who don't know the loophole site is actually situated on a winery um and tom uh plays with lots of co-ferments with um grapes and all that space he even malted his own barley for a little while got it like he grew it himself and then malted it locally and then made a lovely keller pills with it it was just like He and I both have environmental science background. It was just, it was a really good next step. That and the winery money was very helpful in that that site was very well set up. And made an amazing juicy IPA. I did, yeah. So James McCall actually taught me how to brew hazies. um We did a collaboration while I was still at the previous brewery. And so I took that knowledge with me down to loophole. That recipe. Yeah. I think we use different hops. Completely different. um But yeah, that beer was an absolute belcher. I was really pleased with how that came out.
00:20:25
Speaker
And it was really lovely for Tom to trust me enough after such a short period of time and just be like, go for it, mate. Have fun. um But with... That site came a Cody canning line, came double fermenters, came production scale facility, which was very different to what I had brewed on its bark.
00:20:43
Speaker
um And so it was the perfect next step, along with having a mentor like Tom who, you know, taught me how to barrel beers, taught me how to operate a canning line, taught me how to, you know, manage production. yeah that Make mead. Yeah, make mead. Yeah.
00:20:55
Speaker
This is how we filter. This is, yeah, no, it was really the perfect next step. um Meanwhile, i was still supporting my friend at the time, James. Drinking lots of Shakespeare beer. We did used to swap quite a few because you were still contract brewing at that time. Yeah, so as we were building a site here, we were we contract brewing mainly at Big Shed.
00:21:18
Speaker
I had one turn at Little Bang, which is where Nordic was born. But yeah, Carla was always... in the background helping with Shapeshifter as it was kind of getting its physical form here.
00:21:30
Speaker
So she might not have been on the team officially at the time, but she was definitely one of the OGs. You also had one of my best friends running the venue, Namesha. That's right. Shout out.
00:21:41
Speaker
um And so I meant that I was kind of supporting Misha in her role and supporting my friend James, you know, getting the brewery up and running and checking in with him. Have you had a breakdown yet? you okay? Do you need anything? Just one this week so far. Yeah. So... incestuous, but in a good way. Yeah. I think that's what's great about the community, though, isn't it? That we all look out for one another and check in on one another and all that stuff. So...
00:22:07
Speaker
That was definitely happening at that time while I was growing my skills and experience down at Loophole as well. And then it became apparent that another set of hands was required here, somebody with maybe a little bit of production experience that I'd gained down at Loophole.
00:22:22
Speaker
um And so it kind of just was the right fit. It's eight minutes from the house I bought a few years ago. Rather than what, three and a half hours? Three and a half hour and drive to Loophole. So, you know, the eight minute commute really yeah and and being surrounded by my friends. Mish was still here at the time and I had James and yeah, so it made sense. So came home and got cracking.
00:22:42
Speaker
And here we are three years later. And that was how how long after the you put the brewery in here? was pretty soon after. Yeah, two months. Pretty soon, yeah. yeah but Not even a month. Yeah, we obviously built the brewery here in seven-month build. But, you know, in the last few months of that, we already started filling the tanks.
00:23:02
Speaker
And then when we opened in October 2021... one Yes. um It was, you know, hit the ground running and it kind of hasn't really stopped for us. And um it was great to be able to like, be able to offer that spot to Carla very, very soon after we opened because we needed it.
00:23:20
Speaker
We needed someone that could come in and just, you know, grab the steering wheel and and keep it going. And, you know, as we go along, she's been a great part of the team. So, yeah. And why Finden? What was the appeal of this area just that there's industrial and warehouses?
00:23:34
Speaker
Did I mention eight minutes from home? There's 12 minutes from my house. Isn't everything 15 minutes or less? We are the 20-minute city. But no, I mean, Finden, I mean, anywhere in the the west of Adelaide, I've grown up in the west, um and there are already some great breweries and brew pubs here, you know, the Weedy and Big Shed and Pirate Life Setup down in Port Adelaide. and Now you've got Brightstar and Bowdoin, so it's turning into a great little spot. But for me, just looking at map of Adelaide four years ago, when we were kind of looking at the space, just could drop a pin there and say, oh, there's a bit of space in there, let's have a look. And this warehouse came up around the same time as a little bit of a...
00:24:21
Speaker
you know We were fighting with CrossFit gyms at the time. and and Any warehouse in Adelaide that was around 500 square metres, it was turning into a craft brewery or a cross CrossFit gym. And then COVID hit and a lot of the gyms got shut down. And that this place was actually a gym um before we took over.
00:24:37
Speaker
But yeah, it came up and it was the right size and it was on a relatively main road and on the inner west here in Adelaide. And yeah, we just took it. So it's been a great spot for us to to settle down in.
00:24:51
Speaker
Carly, you talked about yeah your friendship with Mish earlier and and like I know it is a pretty tight-knit community in South Australia and and you've been pretty involved with Pink Boots. like like How have you sort of found that community and being a big part of it for the last six years?
00:25:06
Speaker
ah The craft beer community itself is a very special place. I'd
Challenges for Women in the Beer Industry
00:25:10
Speaker
lead with that. I've met some of the best humans um and I'm now lucky enough to call them some of my best friends. It's it's such a, on the whole, if i'm I'm looking for the positives, it's such a fulfilling, lovely, welcoming space.
00:25:25
Speaker
um Unfortunately, I think it's not always for women. I think... um um And that doesn't mention anyone else in the spectrum of humans um because I'm sure there's a whole world of challenges for others who I can't speak for.
00:25:39
Speaker
um But, yeah, I think we've still got a long way to go in making the industry completely inclusive and a safe space for all. i think um I was lucky enough to be given opportunities fairly early on in my career.
00:25:54
Speaker
um Maybe sometimes more because of my gender than it should have been. But it's a tough conversation to have because I feel like i don't want to talk about the fact that I'm a female brewer.
00:26:09
Speaker
I want to talk about the fact that I'm a brewer and a good brewer. But I also feel like we still need to have these conversations as well um because it's not always safe. There's definitely been times at festivals and things where I'm aware of, you know, needing to find a girlfriend because I don't feel particularly comfortable or um needing to remove myself from a situation. and Likewise.
00:26:30
Speaker
um I think in a professional capacity, I've had instances where my capability has been questioned or you know or you were only given that opportunity because you're a woman. um And sometimes that may be true, but also I think we need to make this space as well. So how do we go about making these changes without giving these opportunities to women?
00:26:50
Speaker
um So I was lucky enough to judge the Australian International Beer Awards this year on a Pink Boots Scholarship, which was amazing. I but am so thankful. It was really lovely to have a seat at the table and I learned so much.
00:27:03
Speaker
And I think um I was Pink Boots State Coordinator for several years, um which was amazing. Pink Boots, for anyone who doesn't know, is about women in brewing and or not just brewing, but... um any kind of fermentation and distilling.
00:27:19
Speaker
um So, yeah, that was great. That was kind of during COVID times as well, so it was kind of difficult to organise catch-up. But that kind of community is only going be more important than ever. Absolutely. It at that point well. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:27:33
Speaker
Um, obviously like earlier we met Courtney, who's someone we've seen before, like you, I know she's worked at the bar and things like that, but you've managed to pull her into brewing as well. So that must be great. Yeah. So in line with the skills and experience that I've gained in the last six years,
00:27:50
Speaker
I've now been able to take on the mentor role for others, which is really lovely. um So I've trained two female brewers under me now. One of them isn't in the industry anymore because it is really hard work. Like, let's not beat around the bush. Being a brewer is tough, but um it's, for me, really really worthwhile um and so court um has been with us for just over a year now um and she seems to be really enjoying it she's come a long way in the last 12 months and i'm super proud of her yeah we're um basically on the floor other than you jimmy it's just me and court we joked the other day we were like we're just two girls listening to missy higgins and making beer um and we all had a chuckle at that i'll often walk into the brewery in the morning and it will be
00:28:37
Speaker
like TLC will be playing all the way. And I was like, that's what having a team like this is. I'm here for it. What did I put on the other day? Killing Heidi. Who was singing along?
00:28:51
Speaker
That's real banger stuff. yeah yeah You mentioned on the event space and you're not feeling safe all the time, especially at bigger events. It felt to me like a few years ago there was a lot more discussion around this. a lot of the discussion was kicked off in the States initially, but we ran some articles over here. It felt like there was real progress being made.
00:29:11
Speaker
um it feels like maybe that's been pushed to one side, maybe because the other challenges faced by the industry. You know, how do you you feel that progress has been on that front in terms of discussions around inclusivity or creating safer spaces? Yeah.
00:29:26
Speaker
I don't know that we've come as far as we need to unfortunately. It's hard, though, because sometimes I feel like the more we have the conversation, the more people push back as well, which is kind of upsetting. We we heard that in some of the articles we published and what we' were covering. It's like, that's not the response. Yeah, you you're completely missing the point. yeah Yeah, if we are coming to you saying we don't feel safe in this space, we would hope that you would say, how do we go about making this better for you um instead of arguing with us about our experience? It's a real shame.
00:29:57
Speaker
What would you like to see you know to make things better? I would like to move through that space and not... Have it assumed that I work in sales? um No. What would I like? I would like women of all ages, skill levels of ah from the whole industry to feel safe in that space.
00:30:19
Speaker
And by safe, I mean i don't want ah you to make comment on what I'm wearing or how I look or... You know, I don't know. It's so hard. I feel like in the this day and age, I mean, what sorry to be dark, but what are we up to? 86 women who've died at the hands of, you know, men so far in Australia this year.
00:30:40
Speaker
So ah it might be a broader issue. It might just not be down to the craft beer industry to fix the world's problems. But I think, you know, i think awareness is the first step. I think, you know, unfortunately continuing to have the conversations and maybe if you're a man in the space,
00:30:56
Speaker
Call people out when you see inappropriate behaviour and I think support your female colleagues and friends in the industry as well. um Ask them how they're going. If you're at a festival with them, check in. How's your day? You good? You're feeling safe? I'm here if you need me.
00:31:10
Speaker
You know, come and tap me on the shoulder if someone's being a creep. that kind of energy. I think that's probably a good place to start at least. Yeah. Well, think the crop industry in many ways likes to put itself forward as being progressive.
00:31:22
Speaker
Yes. You know, so or at least community focused. Yeah. And so it is important for us to be better than the rest of society. I think it is on so many levels that we have conversations about yeah people are good people. We said it just before.
00:31:36
Speaker
um And on the whole, they are. But I think generally people tend to get a little bit defensive when maybe you point at behaviour that's happening that they don't, you know, and then defensiveness and then everybody doesn't feel like they're being heard and, you know, all that sort of stuff. So, yeah, generally craft people are good people, left-leaning, community-focused. I don't argue with any of that, but I think ah think we've still got room to grow and and do better in those those spaces. Yeah.
00:32:06
Speaker
Fantastic. Thanks, guys. Let's take a quick break.
00:32:15
Speaker
We're back with Hendo, founder of Rockstar Brewer Academy. Now, unlike formal brewing training like you'd find at a TAFE, Rockstar Brewer Academy offers access, I guess, to ah a practical coaching program and a community ah that will help you brew better beer. Now, Hindo, I wanted to talk about you a little more.
00:32:34
Speaker
I've mentioned your background a few times, but and and I have to say, um having come from the world of Gabs myself, I will always remember you from Brewcolt and Milk and Two Sugars. What an amazing beer that was. But tell me a but bit more about your background, your career. Give me give me the life story and ah in a nutshell. I've been a professional brewer for 15 or 16 years now.
00:32:57
Speaker
um One of the things that I learned really quickly or early on in my career is just I loved brewing and being on the floor and I loved the learning experience of, um you know, just trying to make my beer better and that sort of thing. So, you know, I started out at Prickley Moses down in the Otways and then ah became head brewer at Southern Bay Brewing in Geelong before I went and Went on that wild ride, which was starting Brewcult in 2013.
00:33:26
Speaker
That finished up in, and during that time, you know, brewing out at Cavalier and in the western suburbs of Melbourne, then moved all the production down to Kaiju in Dandy South.
00:33:37
Speaker
And then when that and and ended in 2017, I went and spent a year on the production floor at Stone & Wood, so big brewery doing tens of millions of litres a year before starting the Rockstar Brewery Academy. So it's a very...
00:33:52
Speaker
eclectic brewing career but the really good thing is is that I've seen breweries of all different shapes and sizes and being able to adapt quickly. Tell me Hendo your background and that experience I guess how did that what inspired you then to start Rockstar Brewer Academy what were the kind of key things that you saw in your career that you thought there's a problem there to be solved that I can help with. The problem that I found was that it was really difficult and really challenging to get access to reliable brewing technical information. and And also on top of that now, I'm pro getting a formal brewing education, absolutely.
00:34:33
Speaker
But even if you get a professional, ah like ah like a formal brewing education as a professional brewer, that still doesn't give you practical information that you can go and directly install systems in your brewery. And so I wanted to start something where, um you know, if you are experiencing certain issues, and there are some very common issues that a lot of breweries do experience,
00:34:57
Speaker
that you can just go and get that information, get a system, get the worksheets or templates and just go and install it in your brewery and it's done. And then you move on to the next thing that you want to go and install in your brewery that will take your brewery to the next level. Well, mate, now with your Rockstar Brewer Academy hat on and thinking back to young Steve, young little little Hendo back in the day, just starting out,
00:35:22
Speaker
what would you What would be the one most important lesson you would have loved to have been able to tell yourself ah back then? Oh, wow. Okay, so... Really going deep here, Hendo. This is it. Yeah, no, I don't... It's a great question. um So I think that the number one thing is that If you want to make your beer better, you need to define what better or good is.
00:35:45
Speaker
And so a question that I ask a lot of brewers or people who are thinking of joining the Rockstar Brewer Academy is we'll talk about a particular beer. Let's just call it, you know, pale ale, just an example, right?
00:35:57
Speaker
And we'll talk about the pale ale and I'll say, well, you know, you make lots of batches pale ale because it's one of the beers you brew most frequently. How do you know you've made a good batch versus a not so good batch?
00:36:09
Speaker
And typically the answer is, oh, I'll just know or it'll smell and taste great. But those things are very broad and generalistic and aren't a clear definition of quality. And so we have a ah system at the Rockstar Brewer Academy um that we call the product specification. And it basically...
00:36:30
Speaker
gets the brewer to get out of Beersmith or Brewfather and into a place where you can actually write down what the beer is, which is basically what is the raw materials in it and doing so in a way that's irrespective of the batch size or the equipment that it's brewed on.
00:36:49
Speaker
documenting in detail the process, so things like temperatures and times and pressures and go-no-go tests and all that sort of thing. And then thirdly, and the most important thing, is defining beer quality. And so how we define beer quality at the Rockstar Brew Academy is through two lenses.
00:37:05
Speaker
They're called fit for use and true to brand. Fit for use is anything you can measure with an instrument that makes a number, right? So gravity, pH, temperature, carbonation, bitterness, colour, haze, all that sort of stuff, they all make a number. That's fit for use.
00:37:17
Speaker
But hitting the numbers doesn't tell you the complete story about a good quality beer. So, for example, you can hit the numbers and have a diacetyl bomb. right? Yeah, wow. yeah And so that's where true to brand comes in.
00:37:30
Speaker
And so, um you know, one of the things you do in in beer quality bootcamp in your first 60 days is you write a true to brand description or learn the process of writing a sensory description, which is basically what's this beer supposed to look like?
00:37:44
Speaker
What does it smell like? What does it taste like? And what does it feel like? And all of a sudden, those two things together gives you a very clear objective as to what a great batch of beer is supposed to look like.
00:37:56
Speaker
Then you've got something to aim for. You're exactly right. It's like define what you want first and then you'll ah you'll know when you've got it. Brewers, you can start your journey ah to brewing better beer today. Just head to rockstarbrewer.com forward slash calibration. Book in a 15-minute chat with Hendo. Figure out if you're a good fit, not a sales call, and and take it from there. Thank you again, Hendo. We'll see you again soon. Cheers, Greg.
00:38:25
Speaker
back.
Shapeshifter's Modern Craft Beer Focus
00:38:26
Speaker
James, um I'd love to talk a bit more, on Carla, about the the beers. Like you focus on, James mentioned earlier, modern craft beer. Like I'm always interested, I guess, in breweries that are really leading the way on styles and innovation and new hops and things like that. Like what sort of drives you to do? Is that what you were making as a home brewer or you just felt like when you envisioned Shapeshifter with Kev that this would be the space you're playing?
00:38:51
Speaker
yeah um yeah absolutely both like um the the beers that i first fell in love with in craft beer apart from things like feral hot hog and that back in the day in australia was some international breweries um i was from canada we'd go back to toronto a lot bellwoods would always be on the the cards i've stopped into bellwoods a bunch of times love cloud water from manchester in the uk those kind of breweries were definitely the inspiration point for starting shapeshifter at the time those styles were brewed sporadically or not at all so we
00:39:27
Speaker
kind of set up Shapeshifter to be that that brewery that could make those fresh hazies and oat creams and similar styles for Adelaide and Australia. So that's kind of was that was the inspiration for us setting up Shapeshifter at the time.
00:39:42
Speaker
There were a few other breweries that started around the same time around the country, and I think now you've seen you know the tidal wave that that it was, Hazies at the time. We were fortunate enough to be one of the first ones in Adelaide to to start brewing those styles.
00:39:56
Speaker
think got a reputation beyond Adelaide as well, even before you had this place, just when you were still contract brewing, for especially oak cream IPAs. I think if asked sort of beer nerds around the country, what do you think of Shapeshifter? You'd be like, oh, they make great oak cream IPAs.
00:40:11
Speaker
Yeah. Oh, yeah. Little gold star, we we brewed the first oat cream in in Adelaide. I remember we we then caught up at a a local you know brewer catch-up. It was an IBA meeting or something like that, and everyone was teasing me at the time. What are you making that hazy bullshit for? And then look at us now. Well, look at them. They're back in two. So there you go. I think that's that's the thing. when we're We're always...
00:40:35
Speaker
excited to try new styles of beer and new hot products or new yeast strains and and that's what keeps us going here at Shapeshifter and and you know sometimes you get that you know people go what are you making that for kind of thing but how you know it always comes from finding the next delicious beer that we can make or a new technique or style that we want to try or you know talking to friends in the industry near and far and and seeing what they're making and and trying to make it local because You know fresh is always best and if you can make those styles locally for the local beer drinkers then you know that that's always a good thing.
00:41:11
Speaker
What styles are really interesting in 2024, 2025? What have you been looking at the most? I mean we're seeing trends towards a lot of bright beer at the moment.
00:41:22
Speaker
where We're going back to the west coasts but with a bit of a modern twist and taking out spec malt, all Pilsner base, but like bright hoppy crisp It's something us as a brew team are definitely loving.
00:41:37
Speaker
Lager is life. <unk> so I mean, I just brought it up at the team meeting on Monday, four weeks in a row now. Our Heller's Lager is the top seller at the taproom, four weeks straight. We haven't seen that previously.
00:41:53
Speaker
And is that the same lager, the Fyndon lager? Yeah, Fyndon's finest, yeah. Which is tongue-in-cheek, of course. and It's the best Heller's lager made in Fyndon. But, I mean, yeah, up until... For a long time, at least in 2024 and previous, we'd see things like Party Shirt, our Session Hazy, um be it be a big seller. Obviously, at a tap room, you're seeing the lower ABV styles move more volume, but we kind of love to see Fyndon's going so hard because we drink a ton of it.
00:42:21
Speaker
um And yeah, so things like cold IPAs, West Coast ah IPAs, West Coast Pilsners, those are the things that when we're thinking of doing limiteds now outside of our regular hazy IPA or oat cream releases,
00:42:34
Speaker
are the styles that we're definitely leaning towards. And I think the market as a whole, and, you know, the warmer months as well, we're seeing a lot of bright beers, a lot more refreshing through summer, spring and summer. So, yeah, that's what we're loving to make at the moment.
00:42:48
Speaker
And Cal, like, are there sort of shapeshifter beers you've sort of put your stamp on, really, and sort of said, no, we have to make this, or you're just sort of stoked lagers are back? But, like, where do you sort of say it to James? let you Is James one of the brewery owners who can take his hands off?
00:43:04
Speaker
The wheel a little bit. Yeah, I think we share the wheel. Oh, absolutely. i mean I'm not pulling in opposite directions. I mean, Complex Compounds definitely was one that I think you drew. Yeah, I did. Yeah, we did a collab with the guys from Loophole. We did a thialized, we called Farmhouse Ale. It was basically a French saison.
00:43:21
Speaker
um But it was really fun. We used Phantasm and had a really good time. And I don't know that anyone in the broader public understood what it was that I was trying to achieve. But I knew what I was trying to achieve.
00:43:32
Speaker
um And I think it was a delicious little beer. Yeah, we play in all sorts of different spaces. mean, I love Finden's too. It's our Heller's Lager. It's one of my favourites. And particularly since I bought home a Luka tap from the Czech Republic. Yeah. In your back pocket. Yeah, it was like my most prized. Did you tell James who it was going to be installed? Yeah, I just came home and plugged it And you tell the venue when you were ripping it off the wall? Don't worry, got an invoice for it. I knew it was coming. And then we squabbled over the tote bag that it came in as well. That's fine.
00:44:09
Speaker
So obviously a big fan of a lager. I also am really enjoying bright hoppy beers. I think I feel like that's the next, ah like at least for me, and the next wave is is we're coming back to bright beers.
00:44:23
Speaker
crispy, all that kind of stuff. But I think we're going to take some of the things that we learned from brewing hazies, big chewy oat creams, all that sort of stuff, and apply some of those principles to the way we're now brewing these bright beers. You think about some of those beers we tried at the event we...
00:44:40
Speaker
amazing yeah and they're bright and they are crispy yeah in juic yeah coaching yeah with the layers on yeah that fract 106 yeah that was a good time yeah um i'm gonna actually maybe i'll even go and drink one this weekend um so yeah and we were talking the other night at that event about um dip hopping and those sorts of practices as well And they were things that we were applying to the brewing of these, um you know, oak creams and hazy IPAs.
00:45:09
Speaker
And we're now using those same techniques to produce these bright, delicious beers. So, yeah, think we've learned something from this era and now we're moving into this era and it'll be interesting to see, you know, the progression from there. Yeah, comes next. Yeah.
00:45:22
Speaker
You mentioned limiters before, James. you were like one of the breweries, especially a... I guess especially in SA that was putting out a lot of limited releases. We've noticed, it's one of the things we've been writing a about this week, a lot of breweries have pulled back on the limited release programs, you know I guess with the economic, the wider economic situation. Is that something that you've had to do as well?
00:45:41
Speaker
we We've always made space in the calendar for limiteds. I think you know when we started, we actually didn't have a core range and you know that was based on the back of guys like Cloud Waters. It was just new limiteds every single week. And we were doing the same thing.
00:45:56
Speaker
um kind of As you grow as a brewery and and having to you know meet the market in some aspects, there's always going to be people. We were having issues with people coming in, oh, can I get the Hazy IPA? and you'd be like, which one?
00:46:09
Speaker
There's four. There's the one with the blue label, which one? But, you know, people will love a beer, and then they'll want it again. and so, you know, you see that. So then we we have evolved, and we do have our core range now that is available all the time.
00:46:25
Speaker
But, you know, us as a ah brewery, our ethos was always, you know, we were we were born out of limited releases. So... um always at least two a month we're still doing um it has been paired back probably from a couple years ago they're still pulling through oh they're the fastest selling beers that we make absolutely and um keeps us on our toes as a brew team um we love being able to if it's you know if it's a style like we' were saying before maybe an emerging style coming out of the states or or somewhere else
00:46:55
Speaker
will We love, know, oh, that's okay. Let's do the research. Let's write this recipe. let's Let's brew it on the equipment that we've got here using the techniques that we know. Let's see how it turns out. and And luckily they've all turned out pretty pretty well. and But that's that's what we like.
00:47:12
Speaker
So the the core range are always there in the background humming along. It's good for the wider distribution that we that we need as growth for a business. But I think people that are fans of Shapeshifter are always there waiting for the next limited.
00:47:26
Speaker
I suppose if anyone in SA was going to be the exception to prove the rule on the list for this one too, it's probably going to be you guys. We try. yeah and and you know uh you're talking about the core range before you did ah refresh the core range and the look of the brewery what was behind that and obviously taking in that your background's in graphic design as well so i imagine it was quite a process scratching that itch again well i mean i didn't actually do the rebrand it's one of those things it's like when you kind of live with it um as far as having to design your own logo and things like that i just couldn't do it i do a lot of stuff around around the business but
00:48:04
Speaker
I mean, the rebrand came about kind of seeing that as we grew as a business, the ah touch points that people would come across of ShapeShifter, know, from a coaster to a poster or from the merch or to the beer labels, they were fine on their own, but kind of when I put them together, I wasn't really liking how they're a bit like non-cohesive. So actually walked into one of our favorite pizza shops here in Adelaide, One Sneaky Cheetah. and their branding. Yeah, their branding was killer.
00:48:33
Speaker
And I was just in there and I'm like, whoever did this, I want to talk to those guys. So I did a bit of research. It's a company called Voice here in Adelaide. And they've actually, they do a ton of beverage labels, wine, spirits. They hadn't done a ton of beer, which I kind of liked because all their ideas for beer are probably still fresh. So we worked with them for about 12 months in the background.
00:48:57
Speaker
to to refresh our brand. And what I like about it now is that they've kind of taken where we were and just kind of you know iterated off that. So they've just refreshed the look of the Wolf logo and used our name, Shapeshifter, and used it for some taglines.
00:49:17
Speaker
They really cleared out our position in the market for us and the tone of voice that we like to use. and and you know the way that people now can see our beers in the cans, they can more easily identify something that's core range, something that's limited, something that's seasonal.
00:49:34
Speaker
So it's just a ah fun little project that now has kind of set us up for ah hopefully our next phase of growth. Aside from the limiters, you quite quickly in the early days, the shapeshifter started selling beer quite widely across Australia.
Shapeshifter's National Distribution
00:49:48
Speaker
We've seen a lot of breweries pull back more locally focused. Is that something you've had to do over the last couple of years as well? Or is there still enough interest in what you're doing around the country, especially for the specialist bottle shops, whatever, that's still clamouring for your beers? and Yeah, yeah. We've we've found that a ton of our beer goes interstate.
00:50:05
Speaker
We do have our local retailers here. you know retail is here But I think one of the things with us being limited releases, we've got fans around Australia who you know, look forward to the next one. So we move a lot of volume in like West Australia, Queensland and Victoria are our biggest markets at the moment. we've got some great distributors through there.
00:50:24
Speaker
Get with the program, New South Wales. Well, you know, we're talking in New South Wales and our big distributors do send some down there. um But we we're still such small volume that...
00:50:35
Speaker
You know, yeah, all the the distributors are always fighting to get the last kegs and the last last packs to to go to them. But um it's great because we love to see people all around Australia enjoying the beer.
00:50:49
Speaker
And yeah, I think locally is more so the consistency of of our core range and being able to find them in, you know, a couple hundred bottle shops now, which is amazing to see. And yeah, we've still got our fans here that still come in for the limiteds, but I think there's that you know rarity aspect that you see in craft beer that um but you know someone that might like Shapeshifter in Adelaide can pop down to the tap room four days a week and grab it. But when you see it a bottle shop in Canberra or Perth, then it might be a little bit more special for for our interstate fans.
00:51:21
Speaker
I love getting photos from my brewer colleagues all across the country being like, found this here. It's tasting really good. It's such a treat. It's like they found an Easter egg I left on. And I think that's the key thing remember is there's still people out there still hunting still looking for new and interesting things you know i guess the overarching message um over the last couple of years ah with i guess so many challenges to the industry has been all you know everything's going smaller or going more local or whatever but there's still all this other positive and exciting stuff happening it's just maybe not being the main focus of the noise out there so people love the sense of excitement as well i think you know when you're using new ingredients and things like that people
00:52:03
Speaker
There's a huge consumer base, I think, that's super educated now and and they do, they might not know what a Phantasm farmhouse is, but they they you know they want a finalised IPA and that kind of thing. that They're out there.
00:52:15
Speaker
They have the Phantasm farmhouse. I think we got tagged in the early days as a hype brewery and you know we're not afraid to say that we were. But I think what's happened now is, as you said, you know consumers are more educated now.
00:52:30
Speaker
they can pick a fresh beer or stale beer or a good beer from a bad beer. And i think what we've really done as as a brewery is become more consistent and we're still releasing those limited releases, which are exciting, but hopefully people will also realize that we're continuously trying to improve, and make the best beer we can every week. And those limited releases still being experimental are still going be delicious and great beers to drink.
00:52:54
Speaker
And we've talked about innovation and using new ingredients a few times today. Uber nerdy question for each of you. is there a new product that's come on the market in the last couple of years that you've really loved, whether it's a new type of advanced hot product or something? Is there something that you've gone, I just want to use this in every beer I can. like It's such an amazing thing.
00:53:12
Speaker
And Carly, you can't say Lucas side pause. They've been around for a while. No. You go first. Oh, well, okay. We have played around with a ton. I mean, we we love seeing the new independent ah hop growers coming up and selling direct. I think that's fantastic. i think it's something great for hop growing industry, but it means that we get actual access to some amazing hops that they, you know, they're the data nerds as well. They'll tell us the hour that it was picked. what what direction the sun was shining that day and it's amazing so we're fortunate to get some great hops from New Zealand specifically but I mean the first thing that came to mind I don't remember when Eclipse came out from HPA but I mean that quickly jumped up the ranks as one of my favourite hops it's not
00:54:01
Speaker
sexy like a a hop key for any kind of liquid jazzy stuff which which they're all good but for me as soon as that hop came out i was like west coast ipa let's do it and um it's one of the first beers we released under the new branding a big bright west coast full of eclipse hops and i just love that and that hop so yeah i love the new hop varieties that are coming out and That one just shines for me.
00:54:23
Speaker
I'm intrigued as to know where this hot field is, that where the sun shines from different directions. You know what I mean. I'm sure they've got mirrors in Clayton box or something like that. They'll be working it out.
00:54:37
Speaker
ah Very on brand, I'd probably say hot products as well. It means we we're doing this. You're aligned. Yeah, that's a good thing. have loved playing with liquid hot products.
00:54:51
Speaker
and Not one in particular. i mean we We all got into Keith for a minute there and we're still very into it. um But it's nice to now see Yakima and stuff coming through from that direction as well because obviously the broader the gamut is, the more we've got to play with, which is always fun for us.
00:55:09
Speaker
Um, I love the increased efficiency that we get from that, those products. I love playing with them in different ways, like talking to my colleagues across the country, colleagues, friends, whatever.
00:55:21
Speaker
Um, both. Um, colleagues yeah um, the, the ways we're utilizing it, it's all different. Everybody's got their own take on what works best based in their system. I don't know. I find that sharing of knowledge in line with all of these new products really fun as well. So,
00:55:39
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, Keefe was great. and We had some great fun with Spectrum, and you know. That was probably more than 12 months ago now that I think about it. but um In Cognito has been a big part of for a Yeah, we've been using that for a long time. Yeah, so yeah, I think liquid hops are fun.
00:55:53
Speaker
Yeah. And the more beer you get out of the tank, the better, right? Like, that's what we're here for, more beer. And looking to the future, like, you know, what's next for Shapeshifter? Is there anything you're really keen to explore or do or what's next?
00:56:07
Speaker
There's a few things on the calendar that we probably can't mention yet. Nothing too groundbreaking, but yeah, I mean, a few collabs with friends that we've been talking with for a while or, New collabs with ones we've done before. Frolabs.
00:56:19
Speaker
Frolabs with Brandon. Absolutely. That sounds like a liquid hop program. Maybe more yeast. Yeah, and yeah what else? ah it A couple festivals on the horizon. Hopefully they'll be fun and they'll go ahead after some setbacks that we've had for the last few years.
00:56:36
Speaker
um What else? I mean, the the constant you know innovation that we try and bring here at Shapeshifter will always be happening as well. um but yeah it's going to be exciting i'm i'm looking forward to it because i really feel like um we're finally maybe hitting that next gear as far as the kind of setbacks or the holding pattern we've been in as an industry or at least if i can speak for ourselves we've we've been lucky enough that we haven't really fallen back as far as production or anything like that we've just been holding steady just like holding on and then
00:57:10
Speaker
hoping that um i reckon it's it's coming up that we'll be finally able to take that next step and so so all that fun stuff as well but hopefully some growth and maybe some expansion for shapeshifter fingers crossed we'll see it happen expansion here or other tap rooms like well you know looking at either or um i think there's room for potentially um another space or a bigger space or improving what we have here there's there's a lot of things that are kind of on the table but what we do know is that at the moment we're emptying a tank and filling it the next day so we're gonna have to go up or sideways or out or something to try and try and keep going um but hopefully we can do that with some confidence i think we've just held steady for now just knowing where we're at and the industry at large um but
00:58:00
Speaker
ah fingers crossed that I'd like to see us go to that next phase. It's really exciting. And for yourself, Carla? Continuous improvement. um It's the little one percenters. I just want to keep pushing and making the beer better and more consistent.
00:58:15
Speaker
want to keep investing in my team and making them better and and feel fulfilled and happy at work, make great beer. I don't know. don't like innovation is great. I'm here for that.
00:58:27
Speaker
But also like how good we get to do a job that we love and work with people we like. And i don't know. i feel very privileged most days. So James and Carla, thank you so much for joining us. Thanks guys. Thank you. Cheers. Cheers. Cheers.
00:58:44
Speaker
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Speaker
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Speaker
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00:59:53
Speaker
The Crafty Pint podcast is produced and edited by Matt Hoffman. You can get all your beer-related news and reviews on the Crafty Pint website, craftypint.com, and can stay up-to-date on future podcast episodes via our socials.
01:00:08
Speaker
We wouldn't be able to produce the podcast or the website, events or festivals we run without support of the beer industry, whether that's suppliers, bars, breweries or bottle shops. If you'd like to support the show or partner with The Crafty Pine in other ways, please reach out to Craig via the details in the show notes.
01:00:23
Speaker
And if you're a beer lover who'd like to support what we do, you can join our exclusive club for beer lovers, The Crafty Cabal. Visit craftycabal.com for more. And until next time, drink good beer.
01:00:41
Speaker
you