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Episode 17: The Stripes & The Shakes-Ups
33 Plays1 month ago
Leo Ernewein and Landon "Lando" Semenok are joined by Bow Valley sports legend Darren Andersson. With 25 years as a P.E. teacher and Athletic Director, Darren gives us the real talk on the referee shortage, official abuse, and how the new generation of athletes compares to when Leo and Lando were in school.
Plus, the guys break down a chaotic week in the NHL. We react to John Tortorella taking over in Vegas and the firing of Brad Treliving in Toronto.
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Transcript
Introduction and Guest Introduction
00:00:20
Leo Ernewein
Welcome back to the Leo and Lando show. I am your host, Leo and Wine, and as always with me is my co-host.
00:00:27
Lando
Lando Landon Semenuk.
00:00:29
Leo Ernewein
Nice, Landon. Welcome back. We have another special episode today. I'm going to let my partner in crime here invite him quickly, though, before that. I trust you're doing well, though, Landon.
00:00:39
Lando
I am. How is everybody? Good.
00:00:43
Leo Ernewein
Yeah, no, I'm good.
00:00:44
Lando
Good.
00:00:45
Leo Ernewein
Go ahead and invite our guest here real quick, bud.
00:00:48
Lando
All righty. So, so Leo, I know you've had him as your teacher. I mean, how many years ago was that? off the top of your head?
00:00:55
Leo Ernewein
Brian Smith 1-11. So probably 2010 20 2009. I bet you I probably had you a little bit I had you for a lot of years throughout high school, I want to say, right?
00:01:07
Leo Ernewein
Maybe two or three.
00:01:07
Lando
Yeah, possibly. Yeah. So, but I've known our guest Darren Anderson for, well, at least 13 years, probably more. I've lost count.
00:01:19
Lando
He's a good friend of mine and he's a referee partner.
Darren Anderson's Sports Experience
00:01:23
Lando
He's in charge of assigning basketball refs, including myself in, five schools of Banff Elementary and Banff High School.
00:01:32
Lando
He does it for Camar Collegiate High School and Lawrence Grassy Middle School, OLS schools.
00:01:37
Darren Anderson
you
00:01:39
Lando
He's a volleyball ref and a coach. He's a basketball referee, as I mentioned. And he's also the president of the Bow Valley Referee Association. He teaches phys ed.
00:01:51
Lando
at Cameron Collegiate for the last 25 years. He's been the athletic director at the school, think, for 15. I hope you'll correct me on that if I'm wrong. And he was acting principal a couple years ago in Banff, and he is now currently studying to become a principal. So he's going to be in, hopefully at some point, be in the administration. So I just thought he's a perfect guest to come on to talk about what we're going to talk about today. Darren, welcome to the show, man.
00:02:23
Darren Anderson
Thanks guys. Yeah. Happy to be here. Yeah. That's all mostly correct. I've been at Canberra Clujet for 20 years. I was athletic director for nine years. Yeah. A lot of involved in a lot of sports stuff for sure. Like Glenn said, the Valley basketball officials association. I've also founded the Rocky mountain volleyball club and still involved that. So definitely have my hands on a lot of things, lot of coaching over the years, various different sports and Yeah, happy to be on and chat sports with you guys.
00:02:55
Leo Ernewein
Love it.
00:02:55
Lando
Awesome. Awesome. Well,
Role of Fun and Safety in Sports
00:02:57
Leo Ernewein
Round of applause for all the accomplishments and the soon to be not soon to be.
00:02:57
Lando
welcome aboard, man.
00:02:58
Lando
Yeah. Yeah.
00:03:02
Leo Ernewein
But sorry, didn't mean to jinx it. Just, you know, study and go and Yeah, like round of applause. I've always had fun in your classes when when you were teaching you. You did a good job of managing because I was on the edge of pushing it, I'm sure.
00:03:17
Leo Ernewein
especially in gym class, because that was my freedom class. That was my class where I felt like I could push it more. The other classes, I just, I didn't want to get in trouble. Gym class, I felt like I couldn't get in trouble.
00:03:28
Leo Ernewein
Maybe that was a different personality of me back then, but that was younger, Leo.
00:03:32
Darren Anderson
Yeah.
00:03:34
Leo Ernewein
But yeah, I just wanted to say, you did a great job of laying the line, but still allowing people to have fun.
00:03:41
Darren Anderson
Yeah. I mean, that's, that's kind of what it's think that's over the years, that's kind of the MO of is that it's a chance for kids to kind of, uh, you know, get some energy out, be physically active, have fun. mean, every year, every class I teach, always start off with, Hey, we're here to have fun.
00:03:56
Darren Anderson
It's the main goal and we learn and we're having fun. So yeah, it's a fun job and I certainly enjoy doing it.
00:04:04
Leo Ernewein
I'm sure there was more kids that pushed people throughout the years.
00:04:07
Darren Anderson
Yeah, you're not the only one, Leo. It's all good. Like you're in the middle of that spectrum somewhere.
00:04:14
Darren Anderson
So that's perfect. That's the kids I like, the ones that are willing to get in there and do stuff but not take it too far. So I appreciated that.
00:04:20
Leo Ernewein
That's fair.
00:04:21
Darren Anderson
Yeah.
00:04:22
Leo Ernewein
Yeah, thanks. Yeah, I'm sure I had my moments, though. I'm trying to think back, but...
00:04:28
Darren Anderson
Yeah, I'm sure did.
00:04:30
Leo Ernewein
Maybe not so much with you. Maybe I gave other teachers when I knew there was a substitute or something like that. Break out the floor hockey sticks and be like, oh, I'm not bending it.
00:04:35
Darren Anderson
Yeah.
00:04:39
Leo Ernewein
No, no, no. I'm not curving the stick. Anyways, Landon, I'll let you take over here, Landon.
00:04:45
Lando
Oh, you know what, it brings me back, that all brings me back because I'm sure I pulled the same stunts with the late John Petrov too, that, you know, some of the things I did for him and BAMP.
00:04:55
Lando
So trust me, Leo, I know exactly what you're talking about. So, yeah, go ahead.
00:04:59
Leo Ernewein
It's like, yo, go ahead. No, I was just gonna say it's like the time children get to go out and express their energy is sort of like that became their recess time.
00:05:10
Leo Ernewein
And some people choose it to do mischief.
00:05:14
Lando
Yeah, no, it's true.
00:05:15
Darren Anderson
Yeah.
00:05:15
Leo Ernewein
It's just an interesting word, I guess.
00:05:17
Leo Ernewein
But yeah.
00:05:17
Lando
Yeah.
00:05:18
Darren Anderson
Yeah.
00:05:19
Lando
So anyways, Darren, besides all that, is there anything else that you want to share about yourself that people don't know about you?
00:05:29
Darren Anderson
No, I mean, yeah, you covered a lot of it for sure. I've been to Bow Valley for 20 years now. So I started at CCHS. I moved here for that job and my daughter was born right when we moved here. So she's now off to university at University Victoria. uh yeah like I've so been involved in volleyball coaching wise I guess has been my main sport coaching wise but I've also coached coach basketball now I've coached track and field uh badminton like a lot of school sports but also was involved with uh run mountain cycling club so I've been a coach a cycling coach as well as both like a road cycling coach and mountain biking coach and I guess before I moved to Canmore my my first started coaching was hockey so I
00:06:11
Darren Anderson
grew up as a hockey player and my first coaching gig was in, Prairie when was going to school there initially, and then did some hockey coaching at Edmonton with Southside Athletic Club. And yeah, I've kind of done a lot of coaching. I've been, I've been a coach since I guess 1994 was the first time I coach. So it's been quite a while, over 30 years of coaching now and various different things and learned, learned a lot over the years and seeing,
00:06:38
Darren Anderson
a lot of changes in sport and in specific, some of those sports I've been coaching, seen some, some changes, but also just in general, just youth sport and kind of, I've been involved for a long time. So I've seen how things have changed over the years.
00:06:53
Darren Anderson
yeah, it's been, enjoy it for sure. I haven't been actually coaching a team
Challenges in Youth Sports and Refereeing
00:06:57
Darren Anderson
the last couple years here while I'm finishing my master's degree. And so kind of been missing that a little bit, like being on the court coaching, but yeah, I'll make it.
00:07:06
Darren Anderson
look at getting back into that maybe next year once I finish that master's degree, get back in and doing some on the court coaching with volleyball or whatever else. But yeah,
00:07:16
Leo Ernewein
Cool. That's awesome because this is really like off the script question, but as somebody who would maybe like always wanted to get into coaching down the line, I don't know if I'm ready yet, but maybe down the line, do you have any advice or recommendations, steps to take, stuff like that that you would recommend?
00:07:38
Darren Anderson
Yeah, I don't know. I guess there's no... Just get in and try it. I mean, think that's the thing is you're never going to know how good a coach you can be or if you're going to really enjoy it unless you get in there and do it.
00:07:52
Darren Anderson
The biggest thing now is that sport organizations provincially, nationally have... They mandate that coaches have certain certifications and training and screening and all that.
00:08:01
Lando
Thank you.
00:08:04
Darren Anderson
So... I feel like the days of just jumping into coaching, not knowing anything are kind of gone, I guess. So you have to have some sort of training and background before you can jump in and especially work with kids.
00:08:16
Darren Anderson
Right. So I think that's a good thing.
00:08:17
Leo Ernewein
Yeah.
00:08:19
Darren Anderson
That's been a step right direction, even though it's, it's can be challenging for new coaches to get in because some of those requirements are quite time consuming and sometimes even costly and there's a financial cost, but it's, it's much needed and,
00:08:32
Darren Anderson
I think coaches are better prepared to, for the demands of being a coach because these organizations are demanding that coaches have a lot of training.
00:08:38
Lando
Thank
00:08:44
Darren Anderson
So yeah, no better time than now to try it and yeah.
00:08:49
Darren Anderson
Get in touch with other coaches that have been in it for a while. I think that's another good, good tip is yeah. The most, most coaches were more than happy to share you know, tips and tricks and practice plans and drills. And yeah, I've never, seen anybody my coaching area get really protective of what they do necessarily.
00:09:10
Darren Anderson
If you're kind of in the same sport and the same group, but yeah.
00:09:11
Leo Ernewein
Okay.
00:09:16
Leo Ernewein
Yeah, that's, that's, when you talk about safe sport, is it more like volleyball would be the safe sport and stuff?
00:09:17
Lando
Thank you.
00:09:25
Darren Anderson
Yeah, it's, it's everywhere now.
00:09:26
Leo Ernewein
Oh, okay.
00:09:27
Darren Anderson
So, like the national coaching certification.
00:09:29
Leo Ernewein
Well, seems for the, yes, I see what you're meaning.
00:09:32
Darren Anderson
Yeah.
00:09:33
Darren Anderson
Yeah. Like there's those certifications and stuff are all needed throughout all sports now. And they're, they're starting to, I guess, standardize it across sports. So it's not like this sport does this and that sport does that. It's little more standardized now, which is good.
00:09:48
Leo Ernewein
That makes sense for every medical procedure or emergency and stuff like that for sure.
00:09:52
Darren Anderson
Yeah.
00:09:52
Leo Ernewein
And I'm just staffing and all those logistic stuff, I guess, safe sport probably was around when I was a kid, but I don't know if it was around when we were at our volley dome tournaments and stuff like that.
00:09:53
Darren Anderson
Yeah. Yeah.
00:10:04
Darren Anderson
Yeah, it definitely looked different when you were in high school sport, for sure.
00:10:09
Leo Ernewein
Yeah.
00:10:09
Darren Anderson
I can vouch for that.
00:10:10
Leo Ernewein
Gotcha.
00:10:12
Lando
Mm-hmm.
00:10:13
Leo Ernewein
In your years of teaching, how the generations of kids and athletes kind of changed in your eyes?
00:10:22
Darren Anderson
know, the most successful athletes that I've coached, all have kind of that innate desire to work hard, to make themselves better and do whatever they can to be the best possible person and athlete they can.
00:10:37
Darren Anderson
And I think that that's becoming a little more rare, I guess. Like feel like that some athletes are, I guess, expecting some of that to come from others, right?
00:10:42
Lando
so
00:10:51
Darren Anderson
Instead of yourself. And I think that's, that's what I see is that You know, your coach must provide you with the best coaching and your team must be this and your teammates have to be at this level to make you better.
00:11:05
Darren Anderson
And I think sometimes kids forget that's like you're the biggest determinant of that. Like it's your mindset.
00:11:12
Lando
Thank you.
00:11:13
Darren Anderson
It's your work ethic. It's the way you handle yourself is the biggest thing. And I feel like that's kind of starting to erode, I guess, over the years.
00:11:24
Leo Ernewein
I was so do you feel like maybe because when I was a kid, like sure, there was competition, people wanted to play and I guess I'm not necessarily talking about like the highest levels and stuff like that, but like high school sports.
00:11:39
Leo Ernewein
People still played it have fun. Do you feel like there's less of that right now?
00:11:44
Darren Anderson
Yeah, maybe. Yeah. Like, you know, they expect to advance and develop at a certain way.
00:11:48
Lando
Thank
00:11:52
Darren Anderson
And think the kids who are just doing it for fun, it's hard for those kids to put a level of
00:12:05
Darren Anderson
Cause they're doing it for fun.
00:12:05
Leo Ernewein
Yeah.
00:12:06
Leo Ernewein
Yeah.
00:12:16
Darren Anderson
want to be competitive. And then on the same team, you've got kids like, yeah, you know what? I'm kind of just here for fun. Like I, don't really want to get that serious with it. And then that, that that's tricky, right.
00:12:24
Lando
Thank
00:12:27
Darren Anderson
Especially as a coach trying to manage that and figure that out. But, Yeah, it's the, you know, the teams that I've had that have been the most successful is where like everybody's, everybody's on the same page for the most part, right? Like you've, everybody's driving the bus in the same direction and you can, you can tell when it happens that everybody's bought into, yeah, this is what we're doing as a group versus like, no, there's this crew over here that are kind of like, this is what they want. then there's this crew over They kind of want something different and trying to figure out how that works in a team. That's true. That's tough.
00:13:02
Leo Ernewein
Okay.
Personal Experiences as a Referee
00:13:03
Leo Ernewein
Yeah. I mean, everybody buying in sort of right. Like you said, driving, driving the same direction, buying in is, it's crucial.
00:13:10
Darren Anderson
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:13:12
Leo Ernewein
you know, we'll talk about it later with the Maple Leafs where they kind of have, you know, coach fallen, you know, when you're talking to deaf ears and empty hearts, right.
00:13:15
Lando
Mm-hmm.
00:13:21
Leo Ernewein
If it only gets you so far, you can't win basically, is my opinion.
00:13:26
Leo Ernewein
Uh, Landon, what do you think about, People playing for the love of sport. Do you think they're like Darren said, expecting to advance, expecting to win more now than just go out there and have fun and have a good game?
00:13:44
Lando
Yeah, I think that's there. mean, I know a former hockey player, basketball player, volleyball player that I think the for fun is out and people are more worried about winning and statistics than winning.
00:14:00
Lando
than anything and they're more worried about, okay, the statistics is the thing that needs to get me to the biggest college or the biggest university or whatever, right?
00:14:12
Lando
So that's where I'm at with kids these days that I think they've put the fun, like I said, under the rug and it's more statistics.
00:14:12
Darren Anderson
you
00:14:23
Lando
and trying to drive and make a career of this instead of just enjoying you playing. Because it's not a right, it's a privilege. And I think that's another thing that people forget too.
00:14:34
Lando
It's a privilege to be able to play sports. And it's not a right.
00:14:39
Leo Ernewein
And they treat it like you're right because they've paid for it or something.
00:14:42
Lando
Exactly, yeah, yeah.
00:14:42
Leo Ernewein
Yeah. Yeah. I like that you brought up statistics too, Landon. And I wanted to ask you, Darren, like when I played volleyball, there wasn't, don't know, I'm sure...
00:14:54
Leo Ernewein
I got asked to play in Cochrane and I didn't really want to because I was lazy and stupid. But I'm sure they kept statistics, but we at Canwar, we didn't keep statistics on kills or digs or anything like that.
00:15:04
Darren Anderson
Yeah.
00:15:05
Leo Ernewein
Do you guys in Canwar?
00:15:08
Darren Anderson
Yeah, for sure. I think like technology has made that so much easier now. So like when you know, when I started coaching, I would have, I, I would get my players are on the bench on paper that I'd have three different clipboards with different stuff that they were tracking.
00:15:22
Darren Anderson
And then I would take those pieces of paper and go to my computer, put them into a spreadsheet and take forever to take all kinds of hours of time to do that. Back when I had a lot, I was super dedicated to me like, yeah, going to do all this.
00:15:32
Leo Ernewein
Yeah.
00:15:35
Darren Anderson
And now really you can, you can just have an iPad or your phone and, and it's, you just tap stuff.
00:15:36
Leo Ernewein
Take care. Yes.
00:15:42
Darren Anderson
And even now there's like video apps where can, if you take video of your matches and your, even your practices, you can then send your video off to like,
00:15:55
Darren Anderson
a company and they'll stat everything for you and within 24 hours you'll get a fully statted practice game match weekend whatever just back to you like that right so it's yeah so they you know cameras attract ball movement and and then they also that same tracking tracks players and I think it's not necessarily all digital like there's somebody
00:16:03
Leo Ernewein
Wow.
00:16:06
Leo Ernewein
Is that tracked from the ball? Yeah.
00:16:09
Lando
Mm-hmm.
00:16:21
Leo Ernewein
Yeah.
00:16:21
Darren Anderson
videos and doing the stats obviously, but they like 24 seven, you can send video in people starting it. They send, send you the data back within 24 hours.
00:16:31
Leo Ernewein
Do
00:16:31
Darren Anderson
So it's kind of crazy, but yeah.
00:16:34
Leo Ernewein
you guys ever get like hit speed mile per hour kilometer per hour hit speed on like kills or no?
00:16:39
Darren Anderson
I haven't, I haven't done that. Like we actually did. I don't know if you were there that year, Leo, but we used to go to a tournament up in Edmonton. Louis Saint Laurent High School at Edmonton and they would do this it was a big huge tournament they did a skills competition on the Friday night and they had a they had a radar gun so that they would put behind this net and the kids would spike the ball at the net and they would record hit speed so that was that was the closest I ever the kids loved it was it was awesome
00:16:54
Leo Ernewein
That's that's cool.
00:17:10
Leo Ernewein
Is there a number that stuck out to you that you remember as being impressive?
00:17:13
Darren Anderson
well they Yeah, like the one year they brought out one of the Golden Bears men's players to like see how hard
Dynamics in Refereeing Basketball and Volleyball
00:17:21
Darren Anderson
he did it. This guy just came in cold.
00:17:22
Leo Ernewein
Yes.
00:17:24
Darren Anderson
Came in cold and think he was like about just under 100 kilometers an hour.
00:17:29
Leo Ernewein
Oh.
00:17:29
Lando
Wow.
00:17:30
Darren Anderson
And then the high school boys players were about like I think the winning speed was like 85.
00:17:37
Darren Anderson
Which is still, that's pretty hard.
00:17:38
Darren Anderson
But I mean, but now would like watching... like elite men's volleyball now, like that's, yeah, I mean, I think a hundred is probably your baseline.
00:17:49
Darren Anderson
That's my guess, but yeah.
00:17:50
Leo Ernewein
Yeah.
00:17:50
Lando
Yeah.
00:17:51
Leo Ernewein
Yes.
00:17:51
Lando
Yeah.
00:17:52
Leo Ernewein
The elite is is sometimes I'm seeing those clips on the Internet and I'm just like in all of the rallies that they keep going, just
00:17:52
Darren Anderson
Yeah.
00:18:00
Darren Anderson
It's crazy. Yeah.
00:18:02
Leo Ernewein
digging up spike after spike after spike or for those that don't know kill is another word for spike in volleyball i'm not trying to get our podcast censored or anything here yeah landon do you do you want to ask any questions there boss
00:18:09
Darren Anderson
Yeah.
00:18:12
Darren Anderson
Yeah. Yeah.
00:18:21
Lando
Let me think here. guess for what, I guess let's get into the reffing side of things, I guess, there, Darren.
00:18:30
Leo Ernewein
Yeah.
00:18:30
Lando
Yeah.
00:18:31
Leo Ernewein
Oh yeah.
00:18:31
Lando
Yeah.
00:18:31
Darren Anderson
Yeah, sure.
00:18:31
Leo Ernewein
That was totally going to be my next move was go ahead.
00:18:33
Lando
Yeah, guess I'll ask the question.
00:18:34
Darren Anderson
Yeah.
00:18:36
Lando
So what got you into basketball reffing? And I think you ref volleyball too, don't you, Darren? Or you did?
00:18:44
Darren Anderson
I do, yeah. Yeah, I do both. Yeah, I think, you know, when I moved to Canmore, it was Glenn Nelson. You guys would know Glenn, who was, he was the assistant principal at the time.
00:18:51
Lando
Yep, I remember him.
00:18:51
Leo Ernewein
Yeah.
00:18:53
Lando
Yep, I remember it. I know him very well.
00:18:53
Leo Ernewein
Yep.
00:18:57
Darren Anderson
We did my interview and said, yeah, if you're going to have phys ed job, like, what can you coach? said, you know, I coached senior volleyball at the school's app before. I'm excited to do it here.
00:19:09
Darren Anderson
He's like, what are you ref? like, well, I can do a little bit of volleyball. He's like, what about basketball? I'm like, well, I could learn. like, great, we're going to teach you. So,
00:19:17
Leo Ernewein
Yeah, he said, we're going to use you right away for extra hours.
00:19:20
Darren Anderson
yeah, totally. It's like, if you want to keep this job here, you're going to need to do as much as you can. And I was happy to. It was great. I learned a lot from him and from other guys that were kind of reffing at the time and Yeah, I just, I wasn't a basketball guy ever.
00:19:37
Darren Anderson
Like I never played basketball high school. So I didn't know the game that well. So I kind of learned it on the fly. And so I've learned a lot about basketball by reffing it.
00:19:47
Darren Anderson
Like that's really how I've learned about it to the point where, you know, I helped coach senior girls basketball a couple of years ago with my wife who was the head coach and was helping her out.
00:19:54
Leo Ernewein
Nice.
00:19:56
Darren Anderson
And she's, she's the basketball player. She played high school basketball and played like women's league in the city after she was done high school. And, so yeah, so she would, I would tell her things and she'd like, no, yeah, this is it. It's just, she was, she helped me a bit, but, yeah, just help, helping kids out. Right. Like the, it's always, you know,
00:20:15
Darren Anderson
you can't play the games, you don't have the officials. So was just a way to make sure kids could play games and do what I could to make sure those games happen. And I just kept doing it over time. And actually, I do enjoy it for sure. like being part of the game and doing it, learning. And yeah, it's been good. And we'll continue to do it for...
00:20:38
Darren Anderson
as long as I am able to, I guess. And as long as I'm still able to help kids have a chance to play, I'll keep doing it. So, yeah.
00:20:44
Leo Ernewein
Yeah, I hope so. I mean, I couldn't, I wouldn't have known that you weren't a basketball guy having ref core games and classes and stuff like that.
00:20:50
Darren Anderson
No, not at all. Yeah.
00:20:54
Leo Ernewein
So, so kudos. But you did mention something about, you know, you can't play the game without the referees and being in the industry for so long.
00:21:06
Leo Ernewein
Same with you, Landon. Do you guys feel like there's of,
00:21:08
Lando
Mm-hmm.
00:21:10
Leo Ernewein
an ongoing shortage, almost to a crisis at some point of shortage of officials and people willing to take the time out of their evening.
00:21:22
Leo Ernewein
Now, more like it seems like for me, less more than ever, but I haven't really been on the court very much. I'm going stop. Do you guys think that there is more of a shortage for referees out there to the point that it's become not existential?
00:21:39
Leo Ernewein
Existential is a wrong word for it. Are we past a tipping point?
00:21:45
Darren Anderson
I don't know. Atlanta could jump in too, but yeah, it's definitely just a shortage. There seven of us that were certified to ref basketball in the Bow Valley this year, and that's more than what we've had.
00:21:57
Darren Anderson
recent in recent years like we've grown little bit so and even then like if you think of like the volume of games haven't actually totaled it up to as to how many games were officiated in the bow valley this year basketball games like high school basketball like school basketball games but it's don't know in the hundreds like over 100 yeah like i we've all reffed
00:21:58
Lando
Yeah.
00:22:14
Leo Ernewein
yeah, that's...
00:22:21
Darren Anderson
A lot. And especially like, like every, you know, tournament weekends, if there's not at least five of us available for that tournament, like it's like, we don't know whether we can run the tournament.
00:22:23
Lando
Yeah, we are.
00:22:35
Darren Anderson
Right. So, or, or, or we're reffing like, like five games in a day.
00:22:41
Darren Anderson
Like there's on a Saturday, know, the way terms are set up, there's usually seven games on a Saturday starting at like eight 30 in the morning. And the finals are usually at 7 p.m. And, you know, I've had days where we're short refs and I've refed five out of those seven games in that day.
00:22:59
Leo Ernewein
Yeah, I was...
00:22:59
Darren Anderson
mean, I haven't had to do that for a while, but it's like, that's, it's a bit crazy.
00:23:02
Lando
It's great.
00:23:02
Leo Ernewein
That's rough. I was just going to say, it's never really became a thought when I was playing, but as you get on the court on a tournament you're waiting on the sideline, you see the other team get off, you're watching the ref because he's got the ball or whatever, or there's other balls or whatever, right?
00:23:04
Darren Anderson
Yeah.
00:23:19
Leo Ernewein
But sometimes you see the ref and you notice he ain't going anywhere. He's reffing another game.
00:23:25
Darren Anderson
Yeah. Yeah.
00:23:27
Leo Ernewein
or three games in a row, how often would you say that's a common occurrence? More often than not, right?
00:23:35
Darren Anderson
Yeah.
00:23:35
Leo Ernewein
That you're reffing back to that.
00:23:35
Darren Anderson
Doing three games in a row? I'd say most weekends someone's doing probably for sure we're doing three in a day for sure. That's pretty much standard.
00:23:44
Darren Anderson
Like the last tournament that we did at Banff High School last one of the year did four games on Saturday two in the morning two in the evening and then Landon, he probably did at least three. think we all did at least three.
00:23:55
Lando
Yeah, we did.
00:23:55
Darren Anderson
But yeah, that's pretty standard.
00:23:55
Lando
Yeah, I know I did. I did three.
00:23:58
Leo Ernewein
Is there as many volleyball games as there are basketball?
00:24:02
Darren Anderson
Yeah, volleyball is shorter games and also volleyball, you're not running around.
00:24:05
Leo Ernewein
Yeah, you stand.
00:24:06
Darren Anderson
So basically you're like volleyball is simpler that way where, but you do more volume.
00:24:07
Leo Ernewein
Yeah, I love refing. I would love to ref volleyball, so sorry.
00:24:13
Darren Anderson
So like you'll just be on the stand all day.
00:24:18
Leo Ernewein
Mm-hmm.
00:24:18
Darren Anderson
Like you'll do a whole day.
00:24:19
Leo Ernewein
It is a lot of standing, and I don't have the eyes for sure.
00:24:20
Darren Anderson
Like you still, Yeah.
00:24:22
Leo Ernewein
I would be blowing calls left. You know that ABS automatic whatever challenge strike system they have in the major leagues that everybody's talking about right now? They'd need to bring that out on me.
00:24:33
Leo Ernewein
They'd call me Angel Hernandez if the volleyball...
00:24:36
Darren Anderson
Yeah.
00:24:37
Lando
Oh.
00:24:37
Darren Anderson
Well, it definitely gets a bit dicey with volleyball because if you start at like 8.30 in the morning and then the finals at 5.00, and you've literally repped all day the only breaks you've had are like 15, 20 minute little snippets in between matches.
00:24:45
Leo Ernewein
Hmm...
00:24:51
Leo Ernewein
Yeah, well, everybody's...
00:24:53
Darren Anderson
You're seeing all kinds of weird things by the end of the day.
00:24:56
Darren Anderson
And that's the one match that really matters.
00:24:56
Leo Ernewein
Yeah, that's fair.
00:24:58
Darren Anderson
But unfortunately, that's just how it goes.
00:24:59
Leo Ernewein
Yeah, it's tough that it goes like that.
00:25:00
Darren Anderson
Mm-hmm.
00:25:02
Leo Ernewein
Yeah. Sorry, I didn't mean to keep cutting you off. I'm really bad for that today. Leo's being a terrible host. Landon, I wanted to ask you about your opinion on the referee shortage there, or if there is...
00:25:15
Lando
Yeah, absolutely, I think there is. mean, like Darren said, there's only seven of us, and I'm the youngest, at least for basketball, I'm the youngest of the seven.
00:25:26
Lando
And think, Darren, the average age that we have for basketball is 55, I think, something like that.
00:25:33
Darren Anderson
Definitely in the 50s.
00:25:35
Lando
Yeah.
00:25:35
Darren Anderson
Yeah. Yeah.
00:25:37
Lando
Yeah, for sure. Right. And so I'm the youngest. And for me, when I like when I started basketball, I started when I was, I think I was 23.
00:25:47
Lando
And there was at that time, was just you, Darren, I think at that time, Jason, the late Jason, he unfortunately passed away from cancer.
00:25:58
Lando
And then my dad stepped.
00:25:59
Leo Ernewein
Oh, I didn't know that. Okay.
00:26:00
Lando
Yeah, yeah. He last year, I think, or two years ago.
00:26:02
Leo Ernewein
Yeah.
00:26:04
Lando
something like that anyways yeah and so so it's just Darren Glenn Nelson uh the late Jay Simpson my dad and then I and then Scott uh and then there was Scott who was kind of in and out and then so I I jumped in just to help out with the uh the junior high side of things just to kind of
00:26:05
Darren Anderson
Yeah. Yeah.
00:26:26
Lando
learn the game. And I mean, I, I played, I played basketball just like Darren's wife, right up to high school. And so I knew the game and I also scored keep that bad high school.
00:26:36
Lando
So I kind of knew the, I knew the game a little bit, but yeah, it took, it took,
00:26:40
Leo Ernewein
You knew the hand signs too, man. If you score-keeped, you were on it. Sorry, keep going.
00:26:45
Lando
I was. knew. mean, back then the shot clock was a little, I mean, the shot clock was still the 24 seconds and, you know, 14 or whatever.
00:26:53
Lando
But compared to when I started scorekeeping to where the game is now, it's completely different. But actually more completely different in a good way because it's a little bit more simpler although Darren will probably laugh at this the kids who score keep they continue to screw that up but anyways that'll be that's a story for another that's a story for another day but but it is it is it is it is so who knows yeah yeah we we would just never know
00:27:11
Darren Anderson
Yeah.
00:27:15
Leo Ernewein
That's just part high school scorekeeping, my friend.
00:27:18
Darren Anderson
Yeah.
00:27:20
Leo Ernewein
You don't know if they're doing it on purpose or not. You just never know. Yeah.
00:27:27
Leo Ernewein
Yeah.
00:27:27
Lando
But to answer your question, Leo, about the referee shortage, yeah, there definitely is. And, you know, I was thinking about this while before we were recording our podcast. And what's astonishing about, and it's not just volleyball and basketball. I mean, there's a shortage in hockey.
00:27:45
Lando
But what's astonishing about, especially we're talking about the Bow Valley, I mean, we have 30,000 people, give or take, that live in the Bow Valley. That's, you know, Lake Louise, Ekshaw, Camar, Banff, Lac de Zarek, Diamond Splats.
00:28:01
Leo Ernewein
30,000 locals, yeah, probably give or take.
00:28:02
Lando
Yeah, 30,000 locals, give or take. And we have seven basketball referees.
00:28:05
Leo Ernewein
Yeah.
00:28:07
Lando
And then, I don't know, hockey, I think there's, at least when I left hockey, there was at least, I don't know, there was about 50, 50 to 70, give or take. And then volleyball, there's,
00:28:17
Leo Ernewein
Well, that's because there's so much to do out here.
00:28:20
Lando
Yeah, it's true, but that's true.
00:28:21
Darren Anderson
Well, volleyball, there's two of us.
00:28:22
Leo Ernewein
I
00:28:25
Lando
Yeah, there's two.
00:28:26
Leo Ernewein
was just, wow, that's rough.
00:28:26
Darren Anderson
Well, no, there's three now. Actually, there's three certified officials in the Bull Valley this year.
00:28:30
Leo Ernewein
That's so it's like.
00:28:32
Lando
Yeah, so.
00:28:32
Darren Anderson
There's other people that can do it, but in terms of how many people are certified to ref volleyball this year, there's three.
00:28:37
Leo Ernewein
Right.
00:28:38
Lando
Yeah, so, but yeah, there is definitely shortage. And I think there is a little bit of a tipping point because I think if people don't start stepping up you know, there's a good chance, hopefully not, and I'm hoping I'm wrong, that there's going to be no sports period in the Bow Valley, which will be a shame because I think there's a lot of athletes in, you know, both BAMF and CAM or schools that, you know, and I hope I'm wrong, but I mean, if we don't
00:29:11
Lando
I can't speak for hockey, but I can definitely speak for what Darren and I do. We don't try to start making people aware, encouraging people to come out and, yeah, a younger generation to ref, there's just no sport.
00:29:18
Leo Ernewein
encouraging people and yeah, encouraging younger people.
00:29:27
Lando
There's going to be any more sports. An example is my father, Irv.
00:29:29
Darren Anderson
you
00:29:32
Lando
He's going be turning 68 on Sunday. He's probably maybe got a couple more years left.
00:29:42
Lando
there's another fellow, uh, Gore Dreisler who, he does works for mountain FM. And, uh, mean, he's around the same age as my dad.
00:29:52
Lando
Mike, I think he's 65 ish. Derek is in his late fifties. Darren, you're in your late mid, mid late fifties.
00:30:02
Lando
So like, I mean, you guys all aren't all going to do it forever. So, yeah. So I, Sorry. Yeah, I'm not. But anyway, so what what I'm trying what I'm what I'm trying to say is that, yeah, it's not quite at the alarming stage, but it is at the alarming stage, if that makes sense.
00:30:11
Darren Anderson
Yeah.
00:30:22
Leo Ernewein
yeah to me it sounds like kind of like what people are talking about with the trades where the generation that we have that is in position right now is, is eventually going to get phased out, whether they get burnt out or whether they will just retire.
00:30:38
Leo Ernewein
Right. I mean, when, when IRF goes, it's only going to be more work spread around for everybody else, unless somebody else steps up too, which only could lead to more burnout.
00:30:39
Lando
Mm-hmm.
00:30:49
Leo Ernewein
So that's not fun. You know, it does sound like a pressing issue for people who want to play post-secondary, not post-secondary.
00:31:01
Leo Ernewein
What's it called? Outside of school sports. No, it's school sports. School sports. There you go.
00:31:08
Lando
yeah.
00:31:08
Leo Ernewein
I don't know why I'm so stupid sometimes. Maybe that's that.
00:31:14
Leo Ernewein
Anyways.
00:31:15
Darren Anderson
School and club, it seems like it's both, like it's expanding, right? Like there's just more, there's more opportunity for competition with both. Because now like, you know, when we first started reffing basketball, there was no local basketball club.
00:31:34
Darren Anderson
And even like volleyball club was fairly small.
00:31:34
Lando
No.
00:31:37
Darren Anderson
Wasn't, that hasn't been to the level it is now. And so like those are, adding more opportunities for kids to participate in these sports.
00:31:49
Darren Anderson
And then that's like, they want they want to be able to play games locally. So I feel like, like you guys say, like if we're all, I guess most of the officials in basketball, for example, are, we might all kind of age out of it around the same time.
00:32:04
Darren Anderson
And we don't have a kind of succession plan, the Valley be left without, well, we'd be landed doing all the games. So it's, Good luck, Landon.
00:32:12
Leo Ernewein
Yeah, it'll be a win I don't think AI is going be able to keep up.
00:32:13
Darren Anderson
Yeah.
00:32:17
Darren Anderson
Yeah. But we'll work on that, of trying to get more people involved.
00:32:18
Lando
I know.
00:32:21
Lando
Yeah.
00:32:22
Darren Anderson
Like, like I didn't mention Gord, like he's just started reffing two years ago. So again, think there's more people out there that, that maybe are interested in this, but just don't know how to get started yet.
00:32:34
Darren Anderson
So hopefully maybe they, maybe listen to your podcast and maybe they'll come out.
00:32:38
Leo Ernewein
Yeah, no, I appreciate that. Thanks. That's a great point.
00:32:41
Darren Anderson
Yeah.
00:32:43
Leo Ernewein
What are some of the positives then to reffing? You mentioned something earlier like learning... learning the sport a lot of basketball by reffing the games and probably reffing some of the lower level games at the start. And then you build your way up to the high level games and go from there. What else would be some of the positives that you would see from putting on the zebra stripes?
00:33:10
Darren Anderson
Yeah. I mean, if you're fan of sport, which I mean, you're just, you're in the game, right? So there's been lots of games that are close games and you're right in there and seeing excitement of like, even when like a great basketball example is, you know, late in the game, one team's up by a lot. They put a kid on these, maybe a younger kid doesn't get much playing time. And that kid goes out and gets his first basket of the year. And that bench just goes nuts.
00:33:38
Darren Anderson
Like those the kind of, kind of moments where like that's, that's cool to be a part of that in some way. Right. And see that firsthand.
00:33:45
Lando
Mm-hmm.
00:33:46
Darren Anderson
And there's looked at, and there's tons of those examples, right. In every game there's going to be kids doing cool things and getting excited about it. And the whole, the whole vibe of things.
00:33:57
Darren Anderson
I mean, that's, that's I love what I do and being involved in sport and riffing is just another way to be involved in it. I think people maybe sometimes forget that it's, a way to stay, be involved in a sport or stay involved in a sport that maybe you did competitively that you can still be involved in it competitively as a referee. Right. So, uh, yeah, that's, that's what I've like enjoyed over the years and that, yeah. And it's something can kind of work at and get better at. And, I've enjoyed learning more about basketball, learning more about the rules and how, how to apply them as a, as a basketball referee. Like basketball is definitely a sport where,
00:34:36
Darren Anderson
there's a lot of gray, right? So with volleyball, it's either you touched the net or didn't, or you, you stepped over the line, you didn't, the ball was in or was out.
00:34:46
Darren Anderson
And with basketball, it's like, well, and that situation, that's a foul. That's the situation. Maybe that's not a foul. So there's a lot of, a lot of nuances, I guess.
00:34:53
Leo Ernewein
Yeah.
00:34:55
Darren Anderson
It's a little bit tricky, trickier that way.
00:34:58
Leo Ernewein
Up to the referee's discretion, if you will. Sort of like a security guard.
00:35:00
Darren Anderson
Yeah, definitely.
00:35:03
Darren Anderson
Yeah.
00:35:04
Leo Ernewein
going around policing. Well, I guess that's what officials do, but policing is the wrong word.
00:35:07
Darren Anderson
Yeah.
00:35:10
Leo Ernewein
Yeah. It's, it's, yeah. I, I, I do not want a rough basketball. I would be absolutely terrible at that. I just, the whole driving to the basket stuff.
00:35:22
Leo Ernewein
I don't know if it's, I'd watched too many, like the longest yard recently or something like that. I'd like, that's not a foul. And I, somebody would talk about cheeseburger Eddie. Anyway, said, I want to get copyright. I'm going to stop talking about that, but,
00:35:34
Leo Ernewein
Darren, I wanted to ask is there any sort of, because Landon kind of, you know, talking about something recently on the podcast where it seems like there seems to be more situations that get heated in sports between other officials and coaches or fans and officials or even players and officials and stuff like that. And everybody seems to turn to you because you as the official have the power to they think over call or stuff like that. But really, it's like officially one on one is like stand by your call.
00:36:12
Darren Anderson
Yeah.
00:36:12
Leo Ernewein
unless it's atrocious, most people don't go back even if it was the wrong call because you know, it's officially 101, right?
00:36:16
Darren Anderson
Yeah.
00:36:19
Leo Ernewein
It's part of setting the tone. Do you feel like there's a bit more lack of respect towards officials nowadays?
00:36:31
Darren Anderson
I mean, I think that it's always been there to an extent.
00:36:34
Leo Ernewein
Mm hmm.
00:36:35
Darren Anderson
coaches and players and parents that are going question what you do as an official. guess the main difference I see is that I think, think from players and kids tend to have a little, a higher level of disrespect for officials than they used to. And this is my opinion, but I think, you know, they, they watch the NBA and they watch, you know, whoever, you you know, Luka or LeBron or whatever, questioning the referees all the time, LaMelo Ball, and they're, you know, they're, they're, and like, that's the NBA, and that's a little, it's a little bit different high school, right?
00:37:02
Leo Ernewein
yellow ball from Noah Falls and Orchise.
00:37:12
Darren Anderson
Like, high school sport is not professional sport, and the way that athletes conduct themselves and have, you know, what they can say and do on the court is different, and what we put up with as officials is different.
00:37:26
Darren Anderson
Like, if you look at the way coaches ride referees in the NBA and what they get away with, like, like I don't put up with that. Like as soon as coaches start getting on me, I'll have an interchange. I'll give them one warning.
00:37:40
Darren Anderson
soon as they open their mouth again a negative way, boom, tactical, boom. Like you got to set the tone. So feel like that has increased where kids feel they have,
00:37:50
Darren Anderson
the leeway to, to get in referees faces question things and, and kind of chirp. And I like, as an official, will shut that down immediately.
00:38:01
Darren Anderson
So, and as an official and also as a teacher, right.
00:38:01
Lando
Mm-hmm.
00:38:05
Darren Anderson
I think that's the general attitude of kids and respect towards adults and that sort of thing. Like if a kid does that in my class, I'm calling them out on it just like it would if they're in a basketball game. Right. So,
00:38:19
Darren Anderson
they need to understand that there's respect that has to earned and given. And in some, in some instances there's respect because that person's in that position of authority in that, in that setting.
00:38:31
Darren Anderson
And that comes with a level of respect that you need to adhere to. So yeah, I've definitely seen the difference in that, but in terms of coaches, it kind of comes and goes.
00:38:42
Darren Anderson
It's coaches.
00:38:43
Leo Ernewein
Okay.
00:38:44
Darren Anderson
They'll always be, there's, you're always going to coaches that are going to be, hot and upset about things and will say this or that. And, uh, yeah.
00:38:55
Leo Ernewein
Always won every tournament kind of thing. Mm-hmm.
00:38:57
Darren Anderson
Yeah. There's always, there's always one generally, maybe sometimes there's more, yeah.
00:39:00
Lando
There's always one.
00:39:04
Darren Anderson
But in, at the same time, think there's more good coaches. You know what mean? Like there's the majority of coaches are not being disrespectful to officials.
00:39:16
Darren Anderson
But it's the few that really ruin it for, because that's what you remember, right? Like, it's, yeah, it's all it takes one really negative experience for rap to say, no, I'm done.
00:39:22
Leo Ernewein
Yeah, exactly.
00:39:29
Darren Anderson
I'm not putting up that again. So,
00:39:32
Leo Ernewein
Yeah, and that can happen, I think, more often than we think as folks.
00:39:35
Darren Anderson
yeah, yeah.
00:39:39
Leo Ernewein
Landon, I did want to ask you, too, if your opinion on whether people feel like they have a bit more freedom unabashfully say what they are thinking, guess, to the referee without fear of consequences now than they used to be when you first started refereeing or even when you were back to your playing days.
00:40:02
Lando
Yeah, I think there is. And I mean, I agree with Darren. I think what happens is they watch pro sports. And Darren's absolutely right that they watch what's on TV and they think they can apply that to an everyday game. And You know, one of the things that I think what happens to in sports or with kids in sports is when something happens out on whether it's the basketball court and what we're talking about or even on the ice, you know, they tend to point the finger at somebody else for their misfortune when
00:40:41
Lando
it's not really the other person's fault. It's how you went to the baskets, how you went to the net, and you bobbled the puck or you bobbled the ball. And they're always looking for a call because they screwed up something. And it's like, well, that's – it's not a foul or a penalty. It's just you did something stupid. And so that's where I think a lot of the verbal stuff comes
00:41:09
Lando
as far as consequences, are you mean Leo, like as with players or with coaches or both?
00:41:15
Leo Ernewein
Just back in my day, if you kind of, you know, you're playing in a game and you don't like a call to a referee or something like that, and you gave him smack about it,
00:41:26
Leo Ernewein
you ever think you were going to get a call go in your favor or a close call go in your, you know, like the benefit of doubt go your way again, kind of thing.
00:41:32
Lando
Yeah, I know what you're saying now. Yeah. Yeah.
00:41:35
Leo Ernewein
That always, and I'm not saying it went through my mind, but
00:41:35
Lando
I know what,
00:41:40
Leo Ernewein
like to say that it, no, I don't know if it went through my mind, but it should, you know, it should go through.
00:41:47
Lando
It should.
00:41:47
Darren Anderson
Thank you.
00:41:48
Leo Ernewein
It's a team sport.
00:41:48
Lando
And they, well, you know what? And Darren's right. Cause when exactly Darren's right. Cause when like, I'm the same way as him, I don't take any, I maybe take, I maybe clamp down on the, on the abuse a little bit more just because I've got that, that hockey mentality and I've, you know, and I'll speak for my dad too. We've really, him and I have really had to dial back a little bit on that because in hockey, you we have the power to throw 10-man misconducts a lot more without warning, where in basketball you kind of have to do it in steps a little bit, if that makes sense.
00:42:25
Lando
And so when you talk about what players don't realize the consequences down the line, I don't think they really realize, although if you nail them for technical foul,
00:42:39
Lando
They definitely will remember that. Now, they'll definitely remember that throughout the game. It's like, I just got a T. I better shut my mouth.
00:42:48
Leo Ernewein
You ever toss somebody out from two techs?
00:42:48
Lando
Where?
00:42:48
Darren Anderson
Yeah.
00:42:51
Lando
Yeah.
00:42:51
Darren Anderson
Oh yeah.
00:42:52
Lando
Oh, yeah.
00:42:52
Darren Anderson
Many times.
00:42:52
Leo Ernewein
Yeah.
00:42:53
Lando
I've many times, too.
00:42:54
Darren Anderson
Yeah.
00:42:54
Lando
Yeah. I've actually, in basketball, I think I've thrown out three coaches. And I've for...
00:43:04
Lando
15 years, I've only thrown out three coaches in basketball. Players, yeah, way too many to count. How about you, Darren?
00:43:11
Darren Anderson
Yeah.
00:43:11
Leo Ernewein
Right.
00:43:12
Darren Anderson
Yeah. would say the same. I probably will, the same number coaches three or four, maybe.
00:43:13
Leo Ernewein
Right.
00:43:16
Darren Anderson
And most of the time, like it's, and, and more, there's more players because it, players get, they get emotional, right? And they, something happens, they're emotional and they just can't calm themselves down. So kind of, you stop them.
00:43:32
Darren Anderson
Sometimes the tactical comes automatically because it's like something happened that was really bad. And then you talk them like, okay, you need to relax, need relax. And then sometimes those players just, they can't do it. And you're, you give them the second warning, they're like, I'm going to have to give you another Like you need to calm down, need to calm down. And then boom, they just, they can't.
00:43:48
Darren Anderson
You're like, no, you're gone. And that's, that's what has to happen in those situations because the player just can't control.
00:43:51
Leo Ernewein
Yeah.
00:43:55
Darren Anderson
Most of the time though, would say vast majority the time, once the, once a player gets that first technical, their, them or their coach is then like making sure that they do not say another word.
00:44:08
Leo Ernewein
Right. Yeah, they're keeping them in line kind of thing.
00:44:09
Lando
Yeah.
00:44:10
Darren Anderson
Their coach and or their teammates, like all the above, right?
00:44:10
Leo Ernewein
And
00:44:13
Darren Anderson
Like they're like, Hey, It's become apparent that if you don't be quiet, you're not going to be in this game much longer.
00:44:20
Leo Ernewein
And yeah, and like you pointed out exactly that if you don't and you react like aforementioned where you tee them up once and you say, hey, going to have to calm down and then they don't and you toss them out after for the second technical, yeah.
00:44:36
Leo Ernewein
they aren't playing very many basketball games often because if that's how they are on the court, no referees putting up with that. And then, and then they just don't play the sport, right?
00:44:43
Darren Anderson
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
00:44:46
Leo Ernewein
Like, cause you know, they're not an organized game at least.
00:44:49
Leo Ernewein
Right. I did, I did want to mention briefly, you guys were talking about athletes watching sorry, kids watching professional athletes and then emulating them like they're grown adults themselves.
00:45:03
Leo Ernewein
Uh, When we were young, Landon, I don't know if you guys remember the Randy Moss touchdown celebration where he got a touchdown pass and then mooned the crowd.
00:45:09
Lando
I do, yep.
00:45:13
Lando
Yep, I do remember that.
00:45:14
Darren Anderson
Mm-hmm.
00:45:14
Leo Ernewein
Pretty sure was in Minnesota. I don't think he mooned the Minnesota crowd. I think he was on the road. I can't remember. But he didn't necessarily moon them. He pulled down to his briefs or his jockstrap or something like that.
00:45:29
Leo Ernewein
I don't know, necessarily. Maybe it was even a fake pulldown. I can't remember. But we all thought that was the most egregious thing. And Joe Buck on the call, too. sounded like he wanted to throw up when he saw it.
00:45:43
Lando
Hmm.
00:45:43
Leo Ernewein
I am disgusted. The most heinous thing. I can't remember the exact words, but it wasn't the most heinous. Anyways, that was sort of the epitome of... touchdown celebrations or anything like that if you wanted to get kicked out but nobody would ever do anything like that is there anything sort of egregious celebrations that you've had to toss people out for that you can at least maybe talk about on the podcast i just realized that asking that question that maybe there might be some that we can't talk about any any come to mind
00:46:19
Lando
For me, no. I honestly, as you've been asking the question, I've been trying to think back. I don't remember, no, I don't remember ever tossing anybody out for celebrations or anything.
00:46:31
Leo Ernewein
for like sell or anything
00:46:34
Lando
Yeah.
00:46:36
Leo Ernewein
more so for backtalk.
00:46:38
Lando
Yeah, I had, there was one time, this was in Banff, that I kicked somebody out because they punched somebody.
00:46:50
Leo Ernewein
Yeah, that's assault. Yeah, that's
00:46:51
Lando
Yeah, they punched somebody.
00:46:52
Darren Anderson
Thank you.
00:46:54
Lando
That was a while back, though. That was, well, that was 10 years ago, at least. That was a while back. But yeah, nothing, nothing, for me, nothing like that, Because, I mean, and the other thing too is, mean, yeah,
00:47:09
Lando
I just, I, yeah, I don't, yeah, what I was going to say is in school sports, there's a lot of, yeah, in school sports, I just, I don't think at least in our era that I've ever seen something like that. And I don't even think kids would even think about it, to be honest.
00:47:23
Leo Ernewein
Real quick, Landon, you said he punched someone. Did he have hockey gloves on or was it in the basketball game?
00:47:29
Lando
Basketball game, yeah.
00:47:30
Leo Ernewein
Yeah, you definitely kick him out for that. No double technical, that straight ejection you go deal with.
00:47:34
Lando
Yeah, it's called disqualification file is what it's called.
00:47:36
Leo Ernewein
Yeah.
00:47:39
Leo Ernewein
Gotcha. And for those don't know, we were referring to two technical fouls gets you an ejection in basketball, whereas Landon mentioned earlier that you could just hand up a straight 10-minute misconduct out in hockey if there seems to be a dirty hit or even a game misconduct kind of thing, right?
00:47:57
Leo Ernewein
Whereas in basketball, borderline assault or hate crime or you know, stuff like that. You're going to get a technical for something that's usually not allowed. And then that's sort of like a warning. And then you get the second technical that kicks you out of the game.
00:48:13
Leo Ernewein
Or you get six, what is it? Six fouls? I think it's still six.
00:48:18
Darren Anderson
Five. Yep.
00:48:19
Leo Ernewein
Five.
00:48:21
Darren Anderson
Sixth in the NBA. Yeah.
00:48:22
Leo Ernewein
Oh.
00:48:25
Lando
So here, here's some, yeah, no, no.
00:48:25
Leo Ernewein
Sorry. I thought we were pros. No, I thought we were adults.
00:48:28
Darren Anderson
Yeah.
00:48:31
Lando
Yeah, no.
00:48:32
Leo Ernewein
I didn't know was always five.
00:48:32
Lando
Yeah.
00:48:33
Leo Ernewein
I never fouled out.
00:48:34
Lando
Yeah.
00:48:35
Lando
Yeah. It's, uh, Yeah, in FIBA, here's the difference between the United States is the only country in the world that does not follow FIBA rules.
00:48:35
Leo Ernewein
I probably got close.
00:48:38
Darren Anderson
Yeah.
00:48:49
Lando
Everybody else in the world that is part of the FIBA organization across the globe, the United States has their own rules.
00:48:49
Leo Ernewein
Yeah.
00:48:57
Lando
The rest of world has their own. And so in FIBA, you have five fouls. You're done for the game FIBA. Yeah, in NCAA and NBA, it's six.
00:49:08
Leo Ernewein
It's kind of like the metric system versus Imperial.
00:49:11
Lando
Yeah. And then, yeah.
00:49:12
Leo Ernewein
Why? don't know, but they don't know either.
00:49:15
Lando
And then in team fouls, FIBA, it's five. And then it's basically free throws after five. NCAA and NBA, it's seven.
00:49:25
Leo Ernewein
And is it five, seven? I didn't think was that many.
00:49:30
Lando
Yep.
00:49:31
Lando
Yep.
00:49:31
Darren Anderson
In NCAA, they still do halves, two halves.
00:49:35
Darren Anderson
So it's seven fouls.
00:49:35
Leo Ernewein
Right. Yeah.
00:49:36
Lando
Yeah.
00:49:37
Darren Anderson
They do one and one. So if you make your first one, you get a second one.
00:49:41
Leo Ernewein
Yeah,
00:49:41
Darren Anderson
And then NBA, I think still does five because they do quarters. So think it's five in a quarter.
00:49:45
Leo Ernewein
that's what I'm.
00:49:45
Lando
That's true.
00:49:45
Leo Ernewein
Yeah.
00:49:46
Lando
That's true. Yeah.
00:49:47
Leo Ernewein
Yeah.
00:49:47
Darren Anderson
So NBA still is mirroring, is closer to FIBA than NCAA is his own thing. And they'll, they seem to not ever want to ever change.
00:49:55
Leo Ernewein
So.
00:49:58
Darren Anderson
And in my opinion, I think, I think like it's too long.
00:49:59
Leo Ernewein
Yeah.
00:50:01
Darren Anderson
Like they still have a 30 second shot clock and that's like, yeah.
00:50:04
Lando
It's a long game.
00:50:07
Darren Anderson
Yeah.
00:50:07
Leo Ernewein
Real quick, while we're talking about NCAA, have you guys been watching any of the Final Four? Anybody catch that Duke-UConn game?
00:50:15
Darren Anderson
Yeah. Yeah.
00:50:15
Lando
All my teams that I cheer for, they're out. I'm a big Gonzaga fan. They didn't even make the, they didn't even make the sweet 16. They didn't even, well, did they make the round of 32? Yeah, they did. They made the round of 32, but they didn't make the sweet 16 this year. Same with UCLA. Like I like the UCLA Bruins. They're out.
00:50:35
Lando
My dad's a big Duke fan. I kind am a little bit too. They got out in the sweet 16.
00:50:40
Leo Ernewein
No, Duke just got knocked out last night.
00:50:42
Lando
Or last night, sorry, they lead eight.
00:50:42
Leo Ernewein
You're talking about North Carolina?
00:50:43
Darren Anderson
That was, was watching that game.
00:50:44
Lando
Lead eight, sorry. Yeah, just go meet.
00:50:46
Darren Anderson
That's a, that was a crazy finish.
00:50:46
Leo Ernewein
Final four. Yeah. So I wanted to ask you guys, because there was kind of a viral moment after the game, and I've seen both the Duke broadcast and the UConn or the national call,
00:51:03
Leo Ernewein
The Duke broadcast was hilarious because, so for those that don't know what happened, Duke's up two points.
00:51:15
Leo Ernewein
So with what, like seven seconds left? Not really that much time. I think somebody had, think UConn had a timeout. UConn's full court pressing. This is the final four to move on to What is it?
00:51:29
Leo Ernewein
The championship? No, it'd be... Yeah, it'd be the championship.
00:51:32
Darren Anderson
They're trying to get into the final four.
00:51:32
Lando
The Final Four. Yeah.
00:51:34
Darren Anderson
Yeah.
00:51:34
Leo Ernewein
I thought was the final fight.
00:51:35
Darren Anderson
It was in. It was in Elite Eight.
00:51:36
Lando
No, it's the Elite Eight.
00:51:36
Leo Ernewein
So it was the lead eight.
00:51:37
Darren Anderson
Mm-hmm.
00:51:38
Leo Ernewein
It was the lead eight. Thank you. Okay. But it was one versus two seed, right?
00:51:42
Lando
Yep.
00:51:43
Leo Ernewein
And... Duke passes the ball into Caden Boozer or Cameron Boozer, who's probably going go in like the top three picks this year in the NBA draft. Big forward guy. He passes it to his little brother in the older brother who's smaller than him and the same...
00:52:00
Leo Ernewein
Sorry, in the half court position there while he's getting full court pressed and he turns the ball over because UConn sent that press. They didn't have anybody beyond the half court at that point by the time Kate and Boozer got the ball and he turned it over.
00:52:13
Leo Ernewein
They passed the ball to, I forget his name. Alex Carebank and he passes it Braden Mullins who shoots like a it was a Steph Curry level three I mean I get the three-point line is a bit closer the NCAA so maybe that's deceiving me a little bit but it was a deep three nonetheless and they tie the game with 0.3 on the clock I think is what it was not tie the game start leading oh yeah
00:52:34
Darren Anderson
Yeah, 0.3.
00:52:37
Lando
They that by one point.
00:52:38
Darren Anderson
Up by one, yeah.
00:52:39
Lando
Yeah, one boy by one point. Yeah.
00:52:41
Leo Ernewein
Something like that. Very little time left. And UConn's head coach, it was Dan Hurley, went over to the referee and kind of gave him like a, almost like an Eskimo kiss, but it wasn't an Eskimo kiss.
00:52:56
Leo Ernewein
It was like a stare down, almost looked like a UFC when they're standing inches from each other, kind of stare off.
00:52:57
Lando
Oh,
00:53:05
Leo Ernewein
Like, like you can't stop me kind of thing. Like, like the refs were against them the whole game. Oh my God. And when I was listening to the, so I'll get to the point here. was listening to the, the Duke broadcast and you know, hearing, Oh, here's Boozer. Oh, and he turns it over. Oh, and here's Mullins. Oh, and he hit it.
00:53:22
Leo Ernewein
And then instantly he looks over the coach and he's like, Oh, Here's Hurley off the court. Hurley's off the court. Or Hurley's on the court. Hurley's on the court. That should be a technical. That should be a technical. He's instantly calling for a technical, which I thought was hilarious. But technically, he's right.
00:53:38
Leo Ernewein
But nobody called it. And UConn won the game. And I don't know if you guys, did you see that? Where the UConn head coach literally...
00:53:47
Leo Ernewein
Yeah, he was inches from his face. Almost. I don't know if he touched him because he probably didn't because otherwise, you know, he would have got an attack. But, man, it was crazy.
00:53:57
Lando
No, I, I don't, I didn't see that. No, you got me for, for going forward when we do our next podcast, Leo, I'll, I'll, we'll bring it up, but yeah, I did. I didn't see it. Did you see it there? No.
00:54:11
Darren Anderson
Yeah, I was watching the game. I didn't see him come out on the floor, but I watched that game. And yeah, that was a crazy finish. And like Dan Hurley, he's a firecracker, right? Like he's pretty animated.
00:54:21
Lando
yeah.
00:54:22
Darren Anderson
And I remember seeing online after, like they showed a split screen of Danny Hurley's reaction and then John Shire, the coach of Duke, the two contrasts and their reactions of that last 10 seconds of the game.
00:54:23
Leo Ernewein
Yeah. right.
00:54:35
Darren Anderson
It was like, wow, that's very entertaining once in a
00:54:41
Leo Ernewein
I saw that one too of the Duke coach and I am so impressed with him for not, like for turning around and at least swearing because he probably did swear, but he did not show it to the camera and that, I totally thought there was going to be an F-bomb coming out of him right there, which is why I thought about
00:54:57
Darren Anderson
Yeah. If they were me, I would have. Yeah.
00:55:02
Leo Ernewein
Yeah, I would have swore there too.
00:55:02
Lando
I mean.
00:55:05
Leo Ernewein
But that's why March Madness is so good is because of those game-winning shots like that. It's about time we had one. It took a while, but it was phenomenal.
00:55:15
Darren Anderson
Thank you.
00:55:15
Leo Ernewein
Anyways, we'll get back to the refereeing here. Because we started talking about NCAA and it was happening, I figured that game was wild.
00:55:21
Leo Ernewein
We got to put that in.
00:55:23
Leo Ernewein
We were talking a little bit about the referee shortage a little bit earlier. there something that you guys think needs to happen to get more people out involved to officiate in youth sports in the Bow Valley particularly?
00:55:38
Darren Anderson
or no, I think just getting the word out that, it's just showing people like the process. It's not, it's not really that hard to get involved really. Uh, it's, you know, there are some requirements that need to come out and get some training and do like, there's a national FIBA exam that you do to rules exam.
00:55:58
Darren Anderson
it's not, it's not that complicated. And I think like we've, I added a few new referees in last little while, but, you know, we have those refs come in and ref games with people that are more experienced.
00:56:09
Darren Anderson
Like Mike Langwag has been reffing forever. Like I reffed with Mike and I think back to like Jay Simpson.
00:56:12
Leo Ernewein
Mm-hmm.
00:56:14
Darren Anderson
Like I learned a lot from Jay. So I reffed as a young ref. I was reffing with Jay because Jay was experienced ref and had been doing it for years. I learned from him and asked him lots of questions.
00:56:25
Darren Anderson
So, you know, something I would always remember about Jay, but. yeah, I think that's, that's the key, right? Like we're trying to try to make it as easy as possible and, and you do get paid to ref. it's not money that's can't live off it, but it's, you know, living in the bow Valley where everything's so expensive.
00:56:42
Darren Anderson
If it's something that allows you to stay involved in your sport and you make a little money on the side, like the money make reffing is gonna, you know, pay for a new pair skis every couple of years and whatnot. So it's, you know, those,
00:56:56
Darren Anderson
Those things are helpful and they're just little incentives that people think need to be aware of that are out there and why it's good to ref and then also that it's not as hard as you think.
00:57:07
Darren Anderson
You don't have to know everything. Like I didn't know everything about, I didn't know barely anything about basketball when I started and I just figured out as I went and I did fine. So yeah, it's not as hard as everyone thinks.
00:57:17
Leo Ernewein
Yeah, you did more than fine. Yeah. Yeah. You know, we never had an issue where we were just like, did that miss a call?
00:57:20
Lando
Can
00:57:25
Leo Ernewein
And basketball is so subjective too that I think it's a great sport to learn as a referee because you can be like, oh, that's a carry.
00:57:32
Darren Anderson
Yeah. Yeah.
00:57:35
Leo Ernewein
But yeah, nobody ever calls it unless you're like walking or it's really, really egregious, right? And volleyball, that's a carry.
00:57:39
Lando
Yeah, yeah.
00:57:42
Leo Ernewein
Okay, that gets called fast. probably a little bit more frequently. Well, almost every time. Yeah.
00:57:50
Lando
I know, I know, know.
00:57:50
Leo Ernewein
And for those, go ahead.
00:57:52
Lando
Yeah. I was just going to say, I agree with Darren too. Cause I mean, like for, for me, like I, mean, I'll, I'll, I'll say this to Darren that, you know, like I've, I've, I've learned a lot from him too, just from reffing and, and stuff like that.
00:58:05
Lando
And I know he's learned a little bit from me too. So we, we've, we've learned from each other. And I know for myself, like I learned a lot from, you know, I, From my dad, from many years that he's refed basketball, you know, I have my uncle Brian, who Darren knows.
00:58:22
Darren Anderson
Mm-hmm.
00:58:22
Lando
I've learned a lot from my uncle Brian, quite a bit, actually.
00:58:26
Lando
And, you know, Jay Simpson was, you know, he helped me a lot along the way. Mike Langlois, same thing. And we got this new referee from, well, he's not new, but...
00:58:37
Lando
New in our area, Derek has been reffing with us for a couple years and, you know, I've learned a ton from him. So, yeah, and Darren's right. Like, I mean, for me, like, you know, the basketball is something for me to do. It helps me pay for, you know, golfing for the summer.
00:58:56
Lando
And, yeah, it's a paid position. And, you know, and I'll say this, too. For basketball, like I'm still learning rules as we still go along. Like I know quite a few of them now, but I mean, like people don't know that the basketball rule book is like a massive, like it's a binder almost of just rules. And then there's another, guess, another binder sort of that you have scenarios of every scenario that's ever, you know, been done on the basketball court.
00:59:31
Lando
that you have to, you know, somewhat know. But, I mean, a lot of them, they're kind of once out of a blue moon type of scenario. So, but yeah, it's not hard. Like, mean, it's not a hard, hard game, but you certainly need to know your, you know, your, your, at least the basics, I guess, if you want to call it that.
00:59:51
Leo Ernewein
Okay, real quick here before we switch gears to the next kind of topics. Landon, would you say basketball is probably the hardest sport for you to ref? Or what would you say is?
01:00:01
Lando
Yeah, I would say between the three that I've refed between football, basketball, and hockey, yeah, I'd say basketball is the hardest for sure.
01:00:11
Lando
I have refed volleyball. I have refed volleyball just a little bit after, you know, little bit when I finished school.
01:00:16
Leo Ernewein
Got you.
01:00:16
Lando
Yeah, I did the junior high stuff. And, yeah, basketball,
01:00:19
Leo Ernewein
What's your, oh, go ahead.
01:00:20
Darren Anderson
Thank
01:00:21
Lando
no, what were you going ask?
01:00:23
Leo Ernewein
What's your favorite sport to ref, to officiate?
01:00:27
Lando
I, I, you know, I, even though I, I taken, I've retired from it. I think hockey is still number one for sure.
01:00:33
Leo Ernewein
Yeah.
01:00:34
Lando
yeah, I, I, would still, I'd still say hockey is probably of all the hot of all the games to ref actually, or the sports to ref. I hockey is the easiest because it's pretty like, there's a lot of rules in hockey too, but there's, it's pretty, they're all,
01:00:53
Lando
intertwined where basketball, it's like, you know, this scenario with this scenario. And then you got to think, okay, if this scenario with this scenario, or if this person gets a foul and this person gets a foul, where's the ball go?
01:01:05
Lando
It's just like, there's a lot to, there's a lot to, there's a lot to remember.
01:01:09
Lando
So yeah, for me personally, hockey is definitely the easiest. And then I would say football is probably the second, easiest to remember for rules wise. But I mean, would say football and basketball for me for rules wise to remember is probably a pretty close second, to be honest with you.
01:01:30
Leo Ernewein
Okay, and you Darren is there a favorite sport to ref in hardest sport for you to officiate vertical?
01:01:39
Darren Anderson
Yeah, I would, I would agree with my like basketball spray the hardest because of like all the details, I guess, and the nuances. that, yeah. So in that regard, for sure, like there's so many little unique situations that got to know exactly how to apply rules and what happens when. And so that, and I actually did ref hockey as well. I haven't refed in the Bo Valley, but before you know, was younger, refed hockey.
01:02:07
Darren Anderson
when I was in high school and I ref when I was just out of high school into first little bit university. And yeah, I, I would, I kind of see what Landon's saying. Like hockey is definitely, there's more, there's flow to the game where the referees don't have much to do.
01:02:22
Darren Anderson
You're just watching the game versus basketball.
01:02:24
Darren Anderson
It's like, there's, there's way there's less time in between calls with, with what refs have to do basketball than, than hockey. Like it's kind goes on where the ref won't do anything for a while.
01:02:37
Darren Anderson
Uh, but, yeah. And I guess I've also been a, what other things are officiated? I've, I've been a swim official cause my daughter was into swimming. So I've been a stroke and turn stroke and turn judge and a starter for swim races.
01:02:45
Leo Ernewein
Interesting.
01:02:46
Lando
Interesting.
01:02:50
Darren Anderson
I've been a track official like track and field. So I've done starting and, uh,
01:02:54
Leo Ernewein
Yeah.
01:02:56
Darren Anderson
I've ran events at track and track meets over the years and there's nuances to that.
01:03:04
Leo Ernewein
Oh yeah.
01:03:04
Darren Anderson
Yeah.
01:03:04
Leo Ernewein
I'm sure.
01:03:04
Darren Anderson
So I've been involved in a lot of different things.
01:03:05
Leo Ernewein
Yeah.
01:03:07
Darren Anderson
So yeah, definitely basketball the most complicated. I think the most fun, don't know, like right for me right now, it's basketball. Like I do enjoy refereeing volleyball because I like the sport.
01:03:17
Darren Anderson
the sport volleyball. Like I get, you kind of watch the game and as I'm reffing, I can't help myself in coaching as well.
01:03:19
Leo Ernewein
Me too. Mm-hmm.
01:03:24
Darren Anderson
I'm thinking like, oh, why did that kid do that?
01:03:25
Lando
Yeah.
01:03:27
Leo Ernewein
Yeah.
01:03:28
Darren Anderson
you know, I, I, and I shouldn't do that as a referee. I should be boxing stuff, but, sorry not to, but as a coach, yeah, they're all, it's all good.
01:03:35
Leo Ernewein
Yeah.
01:03:37
Darren Anderson
Enjoy all of it.
01:03:37
Leo Ernewein
it's hard to decipher because you probably, you were coaching the night before, right?
01:03:41
Darren Anderson
Yeah.
01:03:41
Leo Ernewein
It's kind of, yeah, exactly.
01:03:42
Darren Anderson
A lot of times. Yeah.
01:03:43
Leo Ernewein
Right. So it's hard to, hard to break that up a little bit, I bet.
01:03:44
Darren Anderson
Yeah.
01:03:46
Leo Ernewein
And you were, you guys ever have those things where you're reffing one type of sport one day and then reffing the same sport or a different sport the next day?
01:03:47
Darren Anderson
Yeah.
01:03:57
Leo Ernewein
And, you know, there's a similar call, but you accidentally call it by the other sports name when you're making a penalty or something like that. You, You know, you say that's all like, yeah.
01:04:06
Lando
I, yeah, for me one time, for me one time, forget what I, yeah, because when I did both, I mean, Darren will remember that I, you know, we did, my dad and I both did basketball and hockey on the same day sometimes.
01:04:13
Leo Ernewein
I would do that.
01:04:23
Darren Anderson
Yeah.
01:04:24
Lando
This was in a hockey game. I don't remember what I was doing, but all of a sudden, saw somebody,
01:04:33
Lando
shove somebody along the glass and all of a sudden I put my fist up for the signal of foul.
01:04:40
Lando
And I don't know what made me do that. don't know if I was just from a, oh man.
01:04:44
Leo Ernewein
That's a blocking foul.
01:04:46
Lando
So anyways, I remember putting my fist up and then I'm like, why is my hand up? And I quickly put it down and everybody was screaming, is there penalty? Is a penalty? I'm like, no, I was trying to scratch the back of my head.
01:04:59
Lando
trying to scratch the back my head, but my helmet was in the way type of thing.
01:05:03
Lando
So yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:05:03
Leo Ernewein
Play it off smooth, eh, bud? That's funny. I did want to ask one thing. Back when we were in high school, I remember specifically we did like fitness tests and beat tests and stuff like that. And I remember Darren, you were our teacher for it at one point. We had like a push-up drill.
01:05:23
Leo Ernewein
And I was like one of the bigger, like broader kids because I was...
01:05:27
Darren Anderson
Yeah.
01:05:28
Leo Ernewein
squeam eyes at that age. And I just, I gave up after like 20 pushups. And I remember you going like, is that And I was like, yeah, that's it. That's like, that's all I want to do. Like, do they still do that sort of stuff?
01:05:37
Darren Anderson
Yeah. Yeah. We still throw it in as well. Probably not to the extent that we did when you were there, but yeah.
01:05:45
Leo Ernewein
Yeah, it's funny.
01:05:45
Darren Anderson
Yeah. I think it's important for kids to like, yeah, to be pushed outside their boundaries of what's, what's comfortable. Sometimes, sometimes it's okay to be uncomfortable.
01:05:56
Darren Anderson
And I think kids need understand that sometimes. So, you know, and, and if they're going to do pushups and be a little bit uncomfortable, it's probably, they're going they're going to put them in an uncomfortable position, that's probably one of the better ones to do with physical activity.
01:05:59
Leo Ernewein
I just remember being
01:06:08
Darren Anderson
But yeah. Yeah.
01:06:10
Leo Ernewein
I mean, I did sign up for phys ed class. So I don't know what I was expecting.
01:06:13
Darren Anderson
Yeah. Yeah.
01:06:16
Leo Ernewein
But just remember being like, yeah, that's about enough.
01:06:16
Darren Anderson
Yeah.
01:06:20
Leo Ernewein
And everybody else was kept going right because they wanted to test themselves. And I was like, I'm, I'm sore. Like, I want to keep going.
01:06:29
Darren Anderson
Yeah.
Pushing Limits in Fitness Classes
01:06:29
Leo Ernewein
We're looking back on that and everybody be laughing and I was just like, whatever.
01:06:29
Darren Anderson
Yeah. That's still a thing. That's still a thing. Yeah.
01:06:36
Lando
Yeah.
01:06:36
Leo Ernewein
Yeah, it is. They still do they still do beep tests to.
01:06:40
Darren Anderson
Yeah. Yeah. Like I teach personal fitness option class.
01:06:41
Leo Ernewein
Oh,
01:06:44
Darren Anderson
So it's strictly fitness.
01:06:45
Leo Ernewein
OK. Mm
01:06:45
Darren Anderson
So we'll, we, we kind of, we do it in there for sure. And yeah, I see the same things where, and I try, you know, beforehand I'll, I'll say, no, you really want to push yourself.
01:06:48
Leo Ernewein
hmm.
01:06:56
Darren Anderson
Like it's, it's, you're going to get to the point where you want to stop. And most people can go another three, four, five levels past where they want to stop. Their body will let them go.
01:07:07
Darren Anderson
So this is part of what we're doing here is understanding what is the full limit of your body and see if we can test it out. But as much as give that speech, I don't know how much it sinks in because lot of kids get to that point where like, I feel like I'm done. And they're like, I'm done.
01:07:24
Darren Anderson
And they stop.
01:07:25
Leo Ernewein
Yeah, I can't wait to go home and do something else.
01:07:25
Darren Anderson
Yeah.
01:07:27
Leo Ernewein
I mean, there's always one leak.
01:07:27
Darren Anderson
Yeah.
01:07:28
Leo Ernewein
So does check out. But it is, you know, as you get older. if you're listening to this, and you're doing those as you get older, sometimes you do regret not pushing yourself or not finding out your furthest capabilities.
01:07:40
Darren Anderson
Yep.
01:07:42
Leo Ernewein
So think about it. Right? Go ahead.
Students Pursuing Sports and Education
01:07:47
Lando
So I have a question there, Darren.
01:07:49
Lando
So yeah, so we'll kind of switch gears here. So you remember in our year end party there, Darren, that we had, we were talking about, know,
01:08:00
Lando
you know, you were talking about how kids are pursuing, you know, high level of sports with education. Is there with you in your 25 years, is there, you know, boys and girls that you come to mind that have, you know, you've taught coached that have now pursued, you know,
01:08:25
Lando
education and sports and even are in pro sports that you can think of.
01:08:30
Darren Anderson
Yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean, you know, I guess I'll just come to mind that are, know, I didn't, they taught, but didn't coach or like, it's kind of the kids that have been to Canmore Collegiate that playing for hockey now.
01:08:42
Darren Anderson
So Noah Phelps, I think we all know Noah's story, right?
01:08:44
Lando
yeah.
01:08:45
Leo Ernewein
yeah
01:08:45
Lando
Yeah,
01:08:46
Darren Anderson
So he's, he's now with Carolina, believe. So yeah.
01:08:51
Lando
the Carolina Hurricanes, yeah.
01:08:53
Darren Anderson
And then Jacob Bernard Docker was in my phys ed class in grade nine and, He's now, I think he just signed a new contract actually with the Detroit Red Wings for couple, couple mil a year, AV. So yeah. And like I said before, like there's, you can see the kids who really are going to make it to that level.
01:09:13
Darren Anderson
They, their mindset is a little, is different. And, and those, those guys are like that. So, and then also like Noah's, older brother Luke, who also was with the Flames for a bit, and he's now over in Europe playing.
01:09:25
Darren Anderson
He played a pretty decent AHL career. They just, they had a different mindset in terms of like what they were willing to do, know, in terms of work ethic and that kind of thing.
01:09:28
Leo Ernewein
Yeah.
01:09:37
Darren Anderson
Versus, you know, I've seen lots of kids who've played hockey and think they're skilled and talented, but then I can just tell, the way you carry yourself, the way you're, you kind of,
01:09:47
Darren Anderson
interact with people, you know, I can tell that you don't have that piece, right? And then, no, exactly, but you can tell, like, when they have it at a young age, like, that's just such an advantage, right?
01:09:55
Leo Ernewein
You have to say that they won't develop it, but it's right now. Right? Yeah.
01:10:03
Leo Ernewein
Mm hmm.
01:10:05
Darren Anderson
And I've seen it with,
01:10:06
Leo Ernewein
They're doing the things off the ice. Right.
01:10:09
Darren Anderson
exactly, yeah, that's the key.
01:10:11
Leo Ernewein
Yeah.
01:10:12
Darren Anderson
Just everything about the way they they're willing to do other things and I you know I can I see kids doing that now I'm like yeah it'd be interesting to see where your sporting career takes you because you have that you know that little piece of the puzzle that I think might take you maybe to another step further than another kid and then thinking back to of the athletes I've coached like you know I've I've only had one and actually Leo, I think it was probably around your time, but Michelle Chevalier, she played for me back in 2009, 2010, around there.
01:10:48
Leo Ernewein
Yeah, I remember Michelle.
01:10:49
Darren Anderson
Yeah, she played NCAA Division I way down south in Mississippi. She went down there for season. But she had that, like she had this different, like the way, what she was willing to do outside of the game and just the mindset.
01:11:06
Darren Anderson
She had that and then she came back and then she ended up playing for University of Ottawa with like U Sports for a couple of years. And then right now, Envia Bellaro played at CCHS.
Mindset for Excelling in Sports
01:11:19
Darren Anderson
I coached her as well. She's now the, she's the captain the UFC Dinos.
01:11:24
Darren Anderson
She's been there, libero there for four years now.
01:11:24
Lando
Oh, good for her.
01:11:27
Darren Anderson
It's her fourth year. And she, I saw that from a really young age with her. remember her coming to, her older sister was playing on the senior girls team at CCHS. And she, when she was grade seven, she just came along to practice because her dad was helping me coach.
01:11:43
Darren Anderson
And, and she just jumped right into our practice playing with these grade 12 players and wasn't intimidated at all. Just love just being part of it.
01:11:51
Leo Ernewein
Thank you.
01:11:53
Darren Anderson
And I'm thinking like what grade seven player out there would not feel intimidated at all. Stepping into that environment and just jumping in with those players. And she just did it. Didn't know me, didn't know it. Like, I'm like, wow, that's impressive.
01:12:07
Darren Anderson
And then, you know, fast forward seven, eight, nine years later, she's, You know, she played, she got a little stint with the junior national team when she was pregnant at the high school and, you know, maybe didn't turn it into like a professional career in Europe, who knows, but she had that kind that extra piece that a lot of athletes, you know, need to get to that level. And sometimes you can teach that, but most of the they either have or they don't.
01:12:35
Darren Anderson
You can, you can tell them, you try to teach them, but sometimes they just, just can't, don't get it. So some do.
01:12:43
Leo Ernewein
Yeah. Go ahead.
01:12:46
Darren Anderson
Yeah, some, some do. And that's, those the ones that, you know, go to that level for sure.
01:12:52
Leo Ernewein
Now, I wanted to ask you real quick.
Influence of Professional Athletes
01:12:55
Leo Ernewein
Do you remember Jake Peacock, who was in my class?
01:12:58
Darren Anderson
Yeah. Yep. Yep.
01:13:00
Leo Ernewein
And he kind of showed up towards the half, like the bookend year of a phys ed.
01:13:05
Darren Anderson
Yep.
01:13:06
Leo Ernewein
I want to say like halfway through the year or something like that.
01:13:09
Darren Anderson
Yeah.
01:13:09
Leo Ernewein
and we were playing softball out there.
01:13:09
Darren Anderson
Yeah.
01:13:11
Leo Ernewein
And like, I was a decent softball player and I was standing out in center field. And remember seeing this kid swing and he swings and he misses and he swings and he misses and then he swings and he whacks one and he whacks one like way over my head and I'm running back and I'm running back and I,
01:13:25
Leo Ernewein
I can't remember what happened to it, but I just remember running back and I'm looking at Jake and I'm like, he just swung that bat with one hand. Jake was the best athlete I think I've ever seen. Just incredibly fit physique.
01:13:41
Leo Ernewein
I could do more pushups than like any of us on the football team.
01:13:41
Darren Anderson
Yeah.
01:13:44
Leo Ernewein
When I, when I was on the football team for my short stint of like two games.
01:13:45
Darren Anderson
Yeah.
01:13:49
Darren Anderson
Yeah.
01:13:50
Leo Ernewein
Yeah, he was, he was incredible. I think he's now like a professional fighter something like that.
01:13:54
Darren Anderson
He is. Yeah. Yeah. He's professional Muay Thai fighter. Quite like in like in parts of the world, he's quite famous.
01:13:58
Leo Ernewein
Mm-hmm.
01:14:02
Darren Anderson
And I think he's also maybe he's opened up in his own gym in Calgary.
01:14:06
Leo Ernewein
He does have a gym here in Calgary, I think.
01:14:06
Darren Anderson
don't if he's still there, but.
01:14:08
Leo Ernewein
Yeah.
01:14:08
Darren Anderson
Yeah, well, he's doing really well for sure.
01:14:10
Darren Anderson
And that's another example too. He had that. I mean, I guess the benefit he had, like his dad was our first coach of our boys' soccer program.
01:14:14
Leo Ernewein
Yeah, you could just tell.
01:14:23
Darren Anderson
So him and Gary Anderson.
01:14:23
Leo Ernewein
X Chelsea player.
01:14:26
Darren Anderson
Yeah, so Gavin Peacock was, he was the captain of Chelsea during his playing days.
01:14:26
Lando
Mm-hmm.
01:14:32
Darren Anderson
So our boys soccer program at Canberra Collegiate, our first two coaches were Gavin Peacock, who was captain Chelsea, and then Gary Anderson, who when he retired from professional football was the leading scorer in the NFL.
01:14:46
Leo Ernewein
Yeah.
01:14:46
Darren Anderson
And quite a soccer player himself. And yes, he had these two.
01:14:48
Leo Ernewein
And South African descent.
01:14:50
Darren Anderson
he had these two like
01:14:50
Leo Ernewein
Yeah.
01:14:52
Darren Anderson
you know, professional, highly touted professional athletes guiding this team. And I just remembered that the way they ran that boys program was, yeah, like taught them those lessons, like the work ethic, the teamwork, the culture.
01:15:08
Darren Anderson
That was first and foremost. And that's why they had so much success when they were first started that program. There's a lot of soccer banners on our wall because of those two guys setting that culture for that group of boys.
01:15:20
Leo Ernewein
Yeah, some of my friends still talk about them today. And it's really cool to see them come over here and share their expertise, right?
01:15:28
Leo Ernewein
Because they were at the top of the top professional levels. Like Gary Anderson played for the Steelers, the Vikings. I think he was with the Falcons, I want to say. I saw all the helmets at Tennessee Titans.
01:15:36
Darren Anderson
Yeah. Tennessee. I think he finishes.
01:15:38
Lando
Tennessee Titans, Titans.
01:15:39
Lando
Yeah.
01:15:39
Leo Ernewein
Thank you.
01:15:40
Darren Anderson
Yeah. And Gary's the most, yeah.
01:15:41
Leo Ernewein
I saw all the helmets in Doug's house.
01:15:44
Darren Anderson
Gary's the most humble guy too. Like he doesn't, he won't, won't tell you anything.
01:15:46
Lando
These are very nice guys.
01:15:49
Darren Anderson
Like, I've, Heard him tell a few stories, but yeah, he's, he's, uh, him and his wife Kay have been, uh, they still fund our athlete of the year scholarships for, camera collegiate.
01:15:59
Leo Ernewein
Awesome.
01:16:00
Darren Anderson
They've doing that for, well, the whole, as long as I've been there, which is 20 years. So they've, uh, they're still giving back to the sport community.
01:16:05
Leo Ernewein
Yeah.
01:16:08
Darren Anderson
Even their kids are long, long out of it, but yeah, they're just really good people and great to have them around the Valley.
01:16:15
Leo Ernewein
Yeah, that is great.
01:16:16
Lando
Ha!
01:16:20
Darren Anderson
Yep. Yep.
01:16:28
Leo Ernewein
And for those that don't know, yeah, you played for Chelsea FC pre-Abramovich era before they were bought by that Russian billionaire who eventually had to sell when Russia went to war with Ukraine. And now Todd Bowley owns them, who's American.
01:16:42
Leo Ernewein
The more you know. Anyways, I don't think Chelsea's playing very well right now. Anyways, I don't really look at the Premier League table right now, but I'm going to look at it just because I want to find out.
01:16:46
Lando
No, they're
01:16:54
Leo Ernewein
All I know is I'm a Southampton fan and my team isn't even in the Prem anymore. My team's brutal. Yeah, Darren, don't know why I became a soccer fan like four or five years ago and now I love it.
01:16:59
Lando
not.
01:17:03
Leo Ernewein
Never liked it growing up.
01:17:04
Darren Anderson
Yeah, I'm not into it, but yeah.
01:17:08
Leo Ernewein
No, that's fair.
01:17:08
Lando
Neither am I.
01:17:10
Darren Anderson
But yeah, maybe one day. You never know.
01:17:10
Leo Ernewein
Chelsea is thick.
01:17:12
Leo Ernewein
Exactly. Right. There's always, there's always room. It took me a long time and I felt like I neglected it. And I think it was just the first sport on TV after the pandemic that came on. Anyways,
NHL Coaching Changes
01:17:22
Darren Anderson
Yeah.
01:17:23
Leo Ernewein
I'm going to jump over switching gears here to the news out of Las Vegas and Toronto.
01:17:27
Leo Ernewein
The last few days, Bruce Cassidy fired and replaced by John Tortorella. So Bruce Cassidy out in Vegas, John Tortorella in Darren and Lando. What's your reaction to this move with eight games to go left of the NHL season?
01:17:42
Lando
Do me to go ahead, Darren?
01:17:42
Leo Ernewein
Landon, I was starting with
01:17:42
Darren Anderson
Oh, well, you go ahead, London.
01:17:44
Lando
Do you want me to go ahead, Darren? Yeah, all right.
01:17:45
Darren Anderson
Yeah, go for it.
01:17:46
Lando
My reaction is, I think, there's a couple reporters that reported this within the last couple of days that, They said the writing was on the wall for Bruce Cassidy. And you actually could kind of see that at the beginning of the year a little bit, even though they were winning, that you could kind of see something was with this team this year.
01:18:07
Lando
And so I guess what happened last year when the Vegas lost to the Oilers last year in five, that I guess some of the players – were not happy with the way the coaching staff approached the Edmonton Oilers.
01:18:24
Lando
And, you know, they were complaining about ice time a little bit. You know, there were some players that were playing absolutely horrendous that seemed to got more ice time. So there was a lot of bad apparently, that ended off the year last year.
01:18:33
Darren Anderson
you
01:18:37
Lando
And so it kind of spilled over this year. And, you know, you got to look back just before the Olympic break. They were five points up on the Oilers before the Olympic break.
01:18:47
Lando
And when they got back, it just seems like they... they just could never get their footing in. What hurt Bruce Cassidy too, and this is going to hurt any coach, is the goaltending has been absolutely horrendous. It's been one of the worst safe percentages in the league. You're never going to win hockey games when you have a goaltending like they've had. And it's actually really shocking to see where they are in the standings with that type of goaltending. Because I mean, I'll give an example. I remember two years ago,
01:19:17
Lando
Colorado ran into that same problem with Georgiev and Anahona. And they've last year, they finally, know, last year at the beginning the year, they were still having the same problem. They finally fixed the problem. So, but like for Bruce Cassidy, I think the other thing with him too is the, he's such a demanding coach that I think, you know, that the messaging,
01:19:44
Lando
I think just maybe wore it out. And, and the other thing too, is I think one of the things that I've heard too, from when he coached in Boston, that he, he has a little bit of favoritism just towards certain players and not towards others. And that's what got him into trouble in Boston. I mean, he lasted there, I think it was about eight years or maybe not quite eight, but a lot longer than he did in Vegas. And I think, I think,
01:20:11
Lando
Yeah, I just, I think with him, I think that the hard-nosed coach is just, he just can't do it anymore. And then I also think for the Golden Knights perspective, I think for the management, especially with Calvin McCrimmon, think he did this just to try to save his job. Because I think if they kept going the way they were going, like, I mean, they're only four points up as a rate. Well, now they're six up on LA, but they kept losing. They were, could be at the,
01:20:38
Lando
below the wild card and they could be missing the playoffs. And then, mean, knows what would happen? So, we'll see what happens with John Torrella. I mean, I like, I like John Torrella's press comments before, think it was yesterday morning when he came on, he seemed a lot more calmer than he used to be, but I mean, that's also way before a hockey game.
01:20:57
Lando
So, so that's also way before a hockey game. So we'll see how, when the heat in the, the heat of the moments.
01:21:01
Leo Ernewein
Yeah, exactly. It's that post game.
01:21:04
Lando
Yeah. The heat of the moments, but I think for John Torrella too, I think that taking a break from year and, uh, taking a year off and, you know, putting in different situation too.
01:21:31
Leo Ernewein
Yeah, but where's better situated for a circus than Vegas? Toronto?
01:21:31
Lando
can...
01:21:34
Lando
I know that, and I was going to get to that.
01:21:35
Leo Ernewein
Sorry.
01:21:36
Lando
There's a lot stupid reporters that ask a lot of stupid questions in Vegas too, but there's also some pretty good reporters and writers and people who work for the team in Vegas that understand the game.
01:21:48
Leo Ernewein
Right.
01:21:49
Lando
I think the spotlight's not going to be on him in Vegas as much as it was with Philadelphia and New York. So, Darren, your turn.
01:21:55
Leo Ernewein
Not with Marner on the team.
01:21:57
Lando
Yeah, I know. Yeah.
01:21:59
Darren Anderson
Yeah. I mean, I'm a big Wethers guy. So to me, I'm a little, little concerned with that change because it's looking very likely that Vegas might, and Edmonton might play in the first round.
01:22:06
Leo Ernewein
Yeah.
01:22:15
Darren Anderson
And I could, you know, could see them just turning it around. All of a sudden they get hot and then they come up against Edmonton and you know, the way that Vegas has been playing right now, I'm like, yeah, I'm not worried about Vegas if I'm the Edmonton Oilers.
01:22:30
Darren Anderson
So, yeah, as an Oilers fan, I'm concerned, but also, like, the NHL needs torts as a coach. He's entertaining. Like, Landon, you said, like, dumb players
01:22:40
Lando
Yeah,
01:22:44
Darren Anderson
reporters asking stupid questions. If there's anybody that should be asked stupid questions is torts because he gets, he just, he just gives it right back.
01:22:50
Lando
it is.
01:22:50
Leo Ernewein
Amen.
01:22:52
Darren Anderson
It's pure entertainment. So I can't wait to see, uh, see what happens there, but.
01:22:59
Darren Anderson
Oh yeah. Yeah.
01:23:03
Leo Ernewein
record in the 18 games played since the symbolic midseason break there.
01:23:08
Darren Anderson
Yeah.
01:23:09
Leo Ernewein
We'll see if torts can get an extension or whether it's just to carry them over the hump because they were sort of a sinking ship they needed to do something. Somebody that definitely is a sinking ship, though, the Maple Leafs fired Brad for living as their general manager.
01:23:24
Leo Ernewein
And, you know, Matthew's out for the year and now the GM gone. How long do you think before head coach Craig Berube is out the door there, Landon? You think he'll last the rest of the season?
01:23:34
Lando
I don't think he's – I don't think he – I mean, I think Brad Treeling is the first domino to fall. I don't think Craig Berube is far behind. I mean, just based on watching – mean, I haven't watched much of the Leafs since they've pretty much been out.
01:23:48
Lando
And honestly, I don't watch much of them unless they're playing a certain team that I want to watch. But as far – yeah, like they're –
01:23:53
Leo Ernewein
Yeah, they're brutal. I don't blame
01:23:57
Lando
I don't know what Toronto is going to have to do to try to fix this problem, but I think he's one of the – I don't think he is the problem, but I think he's not helping the situation with his coaching style. And I think if I'm Keith Pelley, I'd be – trying to change everything, anything and everything as much as you possibly can, because that's what, that's what this, the least, the least need a new direction. And the way the status quo that they've been doing for the last, well, since the Sundin or since the Sundin era, it's not working anymore. They got to, they just buy this buying, this buying free agency thing, buying free agents and doing this. It's just, it's not working.
01:24:40
Lando
You, you gotta, gotta build through the draft a little bit. I mean, Yeah, you may get a home run little bit with a certain player that you might be able to get. But yeah, they got a clean house. And I know, Leo, you and I talked about that before. So to answer your question, Leo, yeah, I don't think Craig Brerwey is all that far behind.
01:25:01
Leo Ernewein
What about you, Darren? you think, I know you're an Oilers fan, you might not watch the Maple Leafs as much as us.
01:25:06
Darren Anderson
I mean, I don't watch them regularly, but I do have several friends of mine that are Leafs fans, so I like to keep track of the dumpster fire that is the Toronto Maple Leafs right now.
01:25:15
Leo Ernewein
Yeah, that's an accurate
01:25:22
Leo Ernewein
statement.
01:25:27
Darren Anderson
don't see how they can't. Yeah.
01:25:29
Leo Ernewein
Yeah, I don't know.
01:25:30
Darren Anderson
it's a dumpster fire and he's got like, he's going to be an unfortunate, uh, casualty. He's a good coach and he, he was, he should have been the right, he should have been the solution, but I just don't think those players spot into what he was trying to, trying to do.
01:25:35
Leo Ernewein
Yeah.
01:25:35
Lando
Yeah, he is.
01:25:36
Leo Ernewein
Yes.
01:25:37
Lando
He is. A former medicine...
01:25:44
Darren Anderson
And like, yeah, they need toughness. They need, and he's just, they're just not giving it to him, but.
01:25:51
Lando
Well, and one of the things I was going to say, guys, is I forgot to say this.
01:25:52
Leo Ernewein
No, they're not feeling it.
01:25:52
Darren Anderson
Yeah.
01:25:56
Lando
The difference with Craig Berube, with the Toronto Maple Leafs, compared to when he coached the St.
01:25:57
Leo Ernewein
Yeah.
01:26:01
Lando
Louis Blues, when he coached the St. Louis Blues... He had an ace or two aces, I should say. He had Alex Petrangelo and he had Jay Bomeester on his defense.
01:26:12
Lando
And then he also had, you know, he had some good forwards, but he had two stud defensemen that could carry him.
01:26:13
Darren Anderson
Thank you.
01:26:19
Lando
Plus he had, he had a hot Jordan Biddington at that time. That's how he won the Stanley cup. It wasn't because, right.
01:26:25
Leo Ernewein
Yes.
01:26:26
Lando
I mean, and so for him to play, to coach in Toronto, he doesn't have an Alex Petrangelo. I mean, Morgan Reilly is far from it, from being an Alex Petrangelo as you can possibly get.
01:26:38
Leo Ernewein
Yeah, they're different players. Petro Anjo is more of a defensive two-way style.
01:26:41
Lando
Yeah. Yeah.
01:26:43
Leo Ernewein
Riley is a bit more offensive. And when he's your top D-man and you're trying to plug the rest of the gaps with guys who are defensive, it's...
01:26:47
Darren Anderson
you
01:26:51
Lando
Yeah.
01:26:52
Lando
It's tough.
01:26:54
Leo Ernewein
It's tougher.
01:26:54
Lando
And, and then, and then, yeah.
01:26:54
Leo Ernewein
Yeah, it's tough. That's not to take away from like what those offensive players like Ryan O'Reilly did and all those guys did that year.
01:27:02
Lando
Yeah, for sure. Brayden, Brandon Shen and yeah, the Robert Thomas that, yeah, they mean, and then, and then the other thing too, is that Stolarz and wool have been in and out of the lineup and like, he just, hasn't had the goaltending either.
01:27:07
Leo Ernewein
Yeah. Yeah.
01:27:17
Lando
So, I mean, yeah, it, that's the difference between Craig Brubay and St. Louis and then Toronto. And I also want to make a shout out. He is a damn good coach.
01:27:29
Lando
Uh, And I say that because he's a former Medicine Hat Tiger and I'm a huge Tigers fan.
01:27:35
Leo Ernewein
All right.
Conclusion and Thank You
01:27:36
Leo Ernewein
Well, that looks like it's all the time we have for episode 17 here today. Thank you for joining us, Mr. Anderson, Darren Anderson.
01:27:45
Leo Ernewein
It was so nice to have you on the show and reminisce about some fun sports times back high school and stuff.
01:27:47
Lando
It was, man. Thank you.
01:27:49
Darren Anderson
Yeah.
01:27:51
Leo Ernewein
So thanks for sharing your perspective on things and being here with us.
01:27:55
Darren Anderson
Yeah, I appreciate you guys having me on. It was really fun. Yeah. Awesome. Chat.
01:28:00
Leo Ernewein
Thanks. And thank you to all the listeners coming in, tuning in every week. We always appreciate that. Landon, it's your time for the shout outs, man. Take it away, brother.
01:28:10
Lando
All right, well, I want to a quick shout out to you, Darren. Thank you. Thank you so much for coming on and sharing your perspective. And I know we've been talking about this for the last couple months to try to get you on. So we really appreciate it. Real quick, I'm going to send out a shout out to friend of mine.
01:28:26
Lando
I don't know if I did this to her or not. I've been messaging her back and forth to say I'm going to do a shout for you. I went back in our archives to see if I actually did it for her or not.
01:28:37
Lando
I can't find it. So if I forgot or whatever, yeah.
01:28:39
Leo Ernewein
Bye.
01:28:41
Lando
So anyways, so anyways, I want to do a shout out to her name is, uh, Jennifer or I call her Jen Knox.
01:28:43
Darren Anderson
Thank you.
01:28:49
Lando
She's, uh, uh, a professional, well, not a professional golfer, but she's a really good golfer. listens to our show all the time and, uh, she's a big fan and, you know, a great friend. So I want to do a shout out to her.
01:29:05
Lando
Uh, she's actually in summer warm. She's in Puerto Rico, I think right now. So I'm jealous. So anyways, a shout out to her. Thanks for being a fan friend, fan and, uh, and all that stuff. So that's my shout out.
01:29:19
Leo Ernewein
Awesome. Thanks again. Shout out Jen Knox. Thank you, Darren Anderson. And hope you enjoy episode 17 of the Leo and Lando show because that's our name.
01:29:30
Leo Ernewein
That's what we're calling it.
01:29:31
Lando
Exactly. Thanks for listening, everybody.
01:29:31
Leo Ernewein
Nice.
01:29:33
Lando
Take care.
01:29:42
Darren Anderson
you