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Jason - Manager Of Customer Support
72 Plays1 year ago
In this episode of the Job Podcast, we speak with Jason, A Manager of Customer support for a Software company in the Supply Chain arena. Their software enables suppliers to dispute retailer deductions effectively and thus win back millions in revenue.
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Music by: SnoozyBeats - Song Title - "Keep It Calm". Please check out SnoozyBeats on PixaBay for a ton of awesome content! - LINK
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Transcript
Introduction and Guest Background
00:00:11
Speaker
Hey folks, you're listening to the jobs podcast. I am your host, Tim Hendrix, and we're going to go ahead and get started. I'm not going to waste your time today. I have Jason with me. Hey Jason. Hey, how's it going? Good. How are you doing?
00:00:24
Speaker
Pretty good. Thanks for joining me today. We're going to give you a little Q and&A and and just kind of figure out what your childhood was like, um what kind of education and training you did, and we're going to do a bit of a deep dive into your job and just see what it's all about so folks that are listening may have some inside information from someone who's been successful at it. So let's just go ahead and start with your upbringing. Rough, you know quick little where were you born, how many siblings, you know that kind of a deal.
Growing Up and Early Jobs
00:00:56
Speaker
Well, I was born in Oklahoma, lived there for about 16 years. I have one sister. um When I was 12, my dad became a minister. So we moved to a little town of about 2,000 people where he started ministering.
00:01:17
Speaker
So I grew up in a parsonage, basically. And yeah, yeah and a parsonage is that a ah ah basically a home that the church provides for the minister and his family? That's right. Okay. And in my case, it was right next to the church. So I got to mow the church's lawn every time I mowed my own lawn. It was great. Did they pay you for it? Or was that just expected as the preacher's kid?
00:01:43
Speaker
Preacher's kid just got to mow the lawn for free. ah Absolutely. Well, it probably built character, right? Isn't that what they say? Yeah, for sure. And also learn how to mow. So my first job was mowing lawns around the neighborhood. Okay. Oh, it it paid off. My dad let me use the equipment. So trusted me with it. So yeah, that was my first ah attempted making money was mowing the lawns of people around there. Back then, they probably didn't have the fancy riding lawnmowers that they have now at the suspension seats and whatnot. Everything was a push mower, wasn't it? It was a push mower and it was not one that had any power to it. I was the power for the push mower.
00:02:30
Speaker
So yeah yeah. So you really built some character. in that Yes, get pretty hot in Oklahoma summer for sure. Oh, I bet. Well, when you weren't being forced to mow by the church, what what kind of hobbies did you have or what fun things did you like to do? um My friends and I,
00:02:50
Speaker
like to get out into the country. So I lived in town, of course, next to the church, but I could ride my bike about a quarter of a mile and get to a creek called Salt Creek. And my buddies and I would go out there and do all sorts of things. um Bowfish for carp, catfish. we would ah I bought an inflatable raft with some of my mowering mowing money. And we floated down the creek one time.
00:03:21
Speaker
um Just all kinds of random stuff like that mostly outdoor stuff like to camp and spend time outside And then once I got a little older and got a motorcycle um Started going out around there where there were Ponds and things like that that I could explore and would go fishing with my friends and So I got the motorcycle because I got a paper route when I was 14. That was my first real job, I guess you'd say. You did a paper out on a motorcycle?
00:03:51
Speaker
Yes, I did. that was probably You probably set some records for the fastest delivery for the region, I would imagine. Oh, absolutely. The guy who taught me did it in a car and he had nothing on me. Once I figured out my route, I was driving riding down the road with no hands, flinging papers with both hands.
00:04:14
Speaker
I got through that route pretty quick. It took me about an hour and a half to deliver 325 papers every afternoon. Good grief. Yeah. Yeah. I had that down to a science. Right on. But that's what enabled me to buy my motorcycle, which let me have a little freedom and be able to explore the countryside around there. Yeah. Yeah. So that was great.
00:04:38
Speaker
Good deal. So yeah I'm assuming that you went through high school and then you went to college. and what What was your degree in or, you know, what did you specialize in when you went to college?
Education and Career Beginnings
00:04:49
Speaker
I was a business major in college, business administration. So yeah, that's what I focused on. um Went out to California to go to college and really liked it. I was in San Diego. Nice.
00:05:08
Speaker
Yeah, really nice area. And problem is, once you go to San Diego, California, you don't really want to leave. yeah So I hung around there and ah ended up right towards the end of college, finding a job there in the supply chain, working at a freight forwarder.
00:05:29
Speaker
So the job there was basically, I was a dock worker started out as a dock worker. So I would load load and unload trucks every okay every evening. Well, the forklift or a pallet jack or by hand? Yeah, both. ah Okay. actually Yeah. Yeah, I got really good at driving a forklift actually.
00:05:50
Speaker
we would load 53 foot trailers all night long basically and send them across country. So got really good at that. um Kind of moved up from there and in the same company and started, well actually i I created a position for myself where I would work overnight tracking and tracing freight. So it became a full time salary job at that point. Nice. And yeah, it's working overnights.
00:06:18
Speaker
which I wouldn't recommend. That's rough though. Night stuff. I've done that and I don't, I never did really get used to it. You just kind of suffer through it. Pretty much. Yeah. It's, it's tough. It's your sleep schedule. You don't know what you're missing until you start messing with your sleep schedule. It really, uh, your head. So I did that for a while. Did they specialize in shipping one particular thing or was it anything and everything that came through there?
00:06:48
Speaker
Well, uh, we had sales guys and they would go out and find clients, uh, the local companies around San Diego who needed to ship things either close or, you know, all the way across the country. and Okay. So it was pretty much. We, we shipped all sorts of things. Um, it's mostly around there. It was mostly tech. So so for instance, one of our biggest customers was Qualcomm. Oh yeah.
00:07:16
Speaker
phones all over the United States, basically. Okay. Yeah. Then you were there for a few years or were you there for quite a long time? Five years on the graveyard shift, huh? oh Well, about the last two were graveyard. First three was I started out part time on the dock, then I went full time on the dock, then I became the dock supervisor.
00:07:38
Speaker
And then I moved to tracking and tracing indoors. So nice five years of moving up the ladder, I guess you could say. Anybody that's listening, we've got a storm in the area. And so you may hear rain and thunder and lightning. So I apologize for that. but The time was ready to do the interview. So that's what we're dealing with. But Jason, do you find that your time on the dock, when you started from the very bottom and then worked your way up,
00:08:08
Speaker
just slowly progressing and learning each position.
Career Progression and Insights
00:08:11
Speaker
When you finally got up into management, I'm sure that that helped you do a better job overall, because you knew you were ah essentially an expert on every position that you were now managing. Yes, yes, I'm a big proponent of that. And I actually, yeah I actually use that concept in my current position. Okay, that's something I firmly believe in. I think it really helps to get a Basically, whatever company you're working for, whatever industry you're in, having that foundational knowledge ah that you get from kind of starting at entry level and working your way up makes a huge difference in your ability to be successful as you move up, I think.
00:08:57
Speaker
What's also nice is that when you get in a position to, to affect change, there is always something about your current job, no matter what it is that you don't like and you want to change. And it's nice to be able when you get in the spot and go, you know what? The one aspect of that job was always just a pain in my rear. So I'm going to change that and make it better. And here's how. And see, it's nice to have the ability to make decisions and act on it.
00:09:23
Speaker
Well, personally, I'd rather leave it alone so that they have to go through what I went through, you know?
00:09:31
Speaker
Right on. Yeah, the suffering. that You're all about building character, I see. That lawn mowing really affected you, didn't it? Yeah. So you worked there at the freight forwarding company for a few years, and then what was your next step after that? Where did you leapfrog to? Well, I had some good college friends who had who lived in l LA, had lived in LA, grew up in l LA, basically. And then they went back to LA after college. And one of them worked at a small company that was in aerospace. And we wrote tech manuals for the airlines, basically, tech manuals specifically for the inflight entertainment systems of airlines. Very specific. Yeah, that's quite the niche.
00:10:19
Speaker
Yeah, so he got me an interview ah to come in and do that. um So I interviewed for that and got in and started again ground floor.
00:10:35
Speaker
um But I mean, it was this ground floor, but it was white collar ground floor. So okay it was actually a pay increase from what I'd been doing. There you go. And yeah, I was that's mainly why I left Freight Fort. I actually enjoyed it, but it didn't it didn't pay. And I saw no chance for basically when you're in a position where the next step up is not attractive to you.
00:11:02
Speaker
even though and it doesn't pay much more anyway. you know At that point, that's when you start looking around. right what What else can I do? so That's what mostly what motivated me to switch careers and move into the tech manual business. Then I moved up to l LA at that point and started working there. but okay so You didn't have really any experience in the tech manual field.
00:11:30
Speaker
What did you just basically have to where you self taught? Did you sit down and learn the software on your time off or did they have a ah somebody that showed you how to do it or how did you kind of get your your legs in that new career?
00:11:44
Speaker
So the position wasn't actually as writer. It was more as a doc control. okay And I had a lot of experience with doc control. I actually helped someone write the ISO 9000 documents for the freight forwarding company I worked for. I got their certification and I sat with the main person that was heading that up and we wrote tons of work constructions and QOPs and so I learned a lot about documentation and how to properly store it and things like that. So I use that on my resume basically when I was talking to the the next company and about doing doc control for them. Now yeah I'm going way back to my careers and my jobs before the fire service which is what my career and it has been for 23 years.
00:12:42
Speaker
ISO 9000, that's a manufacturing standard. It's a certification. That way, you know, the company you're dealing with, they have the same processes, so to speak, that you do. And so there's some familiarity there. Is that correct? Right. Okay. At the ats at its core, it was standardization of processes. Okay. We, the freight forwarding company I worked for, had what are known as stations, and the stations were all over the United States.
00:13:10
Speaker
And we wanted each station to be doing ah similar tasks exactly the same. Okay, so somebody had to write out those tasks, and then pass it on to all the other stations and say, Okay, here's how you do this. Please follow this because you'd get audited every year, someone would come in and check to make sure that everyone was actually following the procedures. Well, continuity is probably pretty important in that field.
00:13:36
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's just efficient. It's so inefficient to have the same function being done differently, either within your company by multiple people and or if you have, you know, it'd be like if McDonald's, ah if the cheeseburgers tasted completely different at every McDonald's you went to because everyone was just making that up as they went along, you know, it just wouldn't make sense.
00:14:01
Speaker
So you got your foot in the door, you were doing and document control, is that correct? Yeah. Okay. And then where did you set your sights on where you wanted to to go next? Where was your next, you know, because you're constantly trying to go to the next level to improve yourself to to get a better position, better pay, etc. So what was the path to where you wanted to be that you saw?
00:14:28
Speaker
Well, what I noticed pretty early on is that I was pretty good at picking up concepts and had I have a very organized mind in terms of how to ah create processes and repeat them. And I realized that moving up meant I was going to have to start managing departments and managing teams.
00:14:57
Speaker
So though I don't necessarily love that, it's pretty much I recognized early on that I was going to have to learn how to manage people and you know get into that side of things. Sure. Yeah. that That's a big shift from only managing yourself. And if you get something right, you get all the credit. And if you get something wrong, you get all the blame.
00:15:26
Speaker
But sometimes when you have people underneath you that make mistakes, it wasn't your fault, but you still have to take the blame and the responsibility for it and then figure out a way to fix it. And that's a, that's a different ball of wax when you shift gears in a career like that. Yeah. And I think it does take a certain kind of mindset, um, to be good at it and to kind of get comfortable with that because it really is That's a constant where you have to be willing to take ownership of the good and the bad and deal with whatever comes your way. So, you know, you can look at it like, well, if they didn't do this thing, then either I didn't train them well, or I'm not.
00:16:18
Speaker
ah producing the amount of oversight I should be to make sure that they're doing it. So either way, it's my fault. So yeah, a pretty much you have to get comfortable with that pretty pre early on in the process. You've probably developed a pretty ah robust level of patience in dealing with people in that kind of a scenario.
00:16:41
Speaker
Yes. Yes. And I have made mistakes in the past. That was a very diplomatic answer. Yes. Yeah. I have definitely made mistakes in the past, but yeah, I've learned to be more patient. Well, mistakes sometimes, unfortunately, are the best way to learn and the best education you can get, but it really stinks when you're right in the middle of it. Right.
00:17:04
Speaker
So you saw yourself wanting to manage people, you wanted to move up and that was the next step. And so let's jump forward. How long were you with this company that we're talking about now? I was there 19 years. Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah. So just to give a quick synopsis of that, I moved up to doc control supervisor, if you will, to general manager and then ah director of production, basically, was the the role that I had when I left. And at the director of production, at that level, I was managing the entire production team, which includes writers, illustrators, engineers, doc control, the entire doc control team.
00:17:54
Speaker
So I was managing all of that and I was also the customer liaison and doing all the scheduling of our production of books. Good grief. Yeah, that was a pretty. That's a full plate. Role. Yes. Yeah. Stayed quite busy. I bet. How many people were you managing in in that role as director? ah Probably about It would vary, but it's somewhere in between 15 and 20 or so at any given time. It's a small company. we We only ever got up to about 35 at our largest. and Okay. Well, good deal. um are there you know To to kind of go down a few little rabbit holes real quick, the types of jobs that you managed, um you had the dock controller, you said there was a technical writing job. What types of
00:18:50
Speaker
of specializations do you have in in a company like that that you were working for and and you were making airline manuals, is that correct? Right. Right. We're making maintenance manuals for the maintenance crew for the airlines. So, you know, we had ah basically FAA specs that we had to follow. And there's another thing called an ATA spec that we had to follow.
00:19:19
Speaker
So part of it was making sure that everything we did, all the documentation we produced met the specs that are expected by the, by the airlines and above them, by the folks that, that judge their work basically. and Okay. So yeah.
00:19:38
Speaker
What types of people built that into our software? One of the things we did at that company was create our own software for writing books. Okay. So we tried to build as much of the spec and everything into the software to so that the actual writers and illustrators and everybody, they basically had to conform to the spec to to do their jobs. So that was one of the little key things that I picked up working there is, you know, you can tell people,
00:20:06
Speaker
how to do a thing a certain way. But if you can create systems that guide them toward that, it's a much more efficient way to handle it. So if someone was working on an airline, some sort of a mechanic on whatever part he was working on, it in the olden days, I guess he would have a book of ah schematics where he would just look and go, all right, this wire goes here and there. And you're just working on all of those directions and the diagrams and everything in digital form. That's right. yeah We delivered PDFs, basically. and Towards the end of my stay there, they had moved from physically printing books to using iPads, basically. Okay. Well, yeah, you can cram an awful lot of manuals into an iPad, so it seems like that would be way more efficient.
00:21:01
Speaker
yeah and these are Just the IFE portion, inflight entertainment portion. I mean, the books we were writing were anywhere from 200 to 1200 pages. Good grief. Yeah, these are large, large books. So if you can imagine ah maintenance folks trying to carry that around and refer to it on the plane. You'd have to have a guy just designed to carry their books around. Yes, Book Sherpa.
00:21:31
Speaker
So you were there for 19 years. That's a pretty good stint. Yes. And you were out in the Los Angeles area. What, you're not there anymore, obviously. So what was your next step? What, what, what had you looking elsewhere or just ready to make a move?
Career Transition During COVID
00:21:49
Speaker
Yeah, it was a good paying job and I'd save some money and I bought a house and you know, things were going well financially.
00:21:59
Speaker
And I'd always wanted to get back to the Midwest because I just really enjoyed my youth in the Midwest. So I started looking around in the Missouri area for some property to buy. And back in 2018, I ended up buying some acreage in Missouri and it had a house on it and a barn and I moved my parents into it.
00:22:27
Speaker
And the plan was I'll keep working in LA until um it seems like the right time to to move. And then I'll come out and build a house and go from there. um But then COVID came along. So two years into my five-year plan, I guess you could say, COVID came along. We all ended up stuck in our houses, especially in California.
00:22:53
Speaker
And, um, then the, our, our largest customer, uh, decided to, uh, in the contract and went and took their work, uh, offshore. So that dried up and that was basically 95% of the work that we were doing. So it was a mass layoff at that point. And I was one of the ones that got laid off. Yeah. So it was perfect for me because, you know,
00:23:23
Speaker
I'd, I was already, now that I had the property and I was coming out and visiting it, I was getting really itchy to get out here. So I i just took it as a sign and just packed up and moved to Missouri at that point. So that's how I got out here. Yeah. Probably feels a little more like Oklahoma in Missouri than it did out in California, especially in l LA, I would imagine. Oh, absolutely.
00:23:50
Speaker
Yeah, cost of living is probably a lot less. You know, COVID, man, that just good grief. That was a monkey wrench into everybody's lives. But let's not go down that road. Big time. Yeah. Okay, so all right. So now you're in Missouri, you've got your property, things are going good. Now I'm guessing you got to find another job. So what'd you do then? Well, at that point, after You know, 19 years of what I was doing, uh, as you mentioned, it was pretty, it was a pretty, uh, labor intensive work I was doing there towards the end. And I was really ready to try and do something else. Okay. And, um, I decided I would just take a good long time and try to find a job in an area that was very interesting to me.
00:24:45
Speaker
And the number one thing was to try to find the type of company that I would want to work for in my next chapter. So it's been a while looking around, found the company in Rogers, Arkansas, which is about 45 minutes from here. Okay. And applied for it. And I applied for a customer support role And based on my experience, I was overqualified for the customer support role, but I could only hint during the interview at certain things that I had done that kind of fit into the customer support ah window, you know, because I was a liaison at my last job and I kind of played that up and I played up the fact that we built our own software. And that part of my job was training our customer on how to use the software and
00:25:43
Speaker
that I was receiving calls on a daily basis from customers needing support. So I was using all those things, although this new, this company that I'm trying to work for was actually a software as a service company.
00:25:57
Speaker
that had developed software in the supply chain world. So it was not a straight across fit, especially because supply chain is, it's it's a whole different a kettle of fish from aerospace. And I knew I was going to be in for a lot of playing catch up. But the company was just exactly what I was looking for. And location was great.
00:26:26
Speaker
And they let you work remotely. So I thought, you know, that's great. I'll, I can work from home a few days a week and go in a few days a week, which to me sounds like the, sounded like the ideal setup. So yeah, I applied for it and I just told them straight up that I recognize that my resume shows me as overqualified for this, but I really do like to get in on the ground floor with companies and kind of work at that level.
00:26:56
Speaker
and then kind of look around and go, hmm, where would I like to go from here? So that's how I approached it. And they liked it. And they went ahead and hired me. Well, there you go. And you've been with them for how long? I've been there coming up on two years now. OK. And are you still in the same role that you, I mean, you're obviously a guy that gets your foot in the door and you show them you do a good job and then you just start climbing the ladder.
00:27:25
Speaker
um have Have you been able to do that in your current a company? Yes. yeah I started out as customer support and within about nine months, um after many discussions with my VP, um they offered me the role of manager of customer support. so I took that and that's where that's what I'm doing now. Well, you're going to be CEO at this pace in about another year and a half, I would imagine.
00:27:53
Speaker
well You know, it's funny as at this point, i'm I'm looking, you know, we talked earlier about like, well, you're you're in a company and you look around and you go, what else would I like to do in this company? And at this point, especially my career, you know, I kind of like where I'm at. Um, I, I'd like to grow within this role and maybe take on some more. Like the way the company is set up, we have customer support.
00:28:23
Speaker
under the customer success but um um envelope, basically. And then there's also customer ops and a few other role of subsets inside, underneath that umbrella. So the natural move would be to co-opt some more of those subset type positions and pull them under my authority, if you will. okay So I can see that happening in the future, but at this point,
00:28:54
Speaker
Um, I've grown the department. It was, there were two people doing this when I started and now we've got six. So we're, we're growing and the company's growing like leaps and bounds. So, you know, I could basically stay where I'm at and, you know, I'd be, I would be.
00:29:14
Speaker
managing who knows how many people in the next five years, I'd probably be at the 20 or so level. I'm thinking it's probably gonna be something like that. Well, you know, as you get a little bit older, you start to realize that money, while it's certainly important, and you want to make good money, if you're making a bunch of money, but you're miserable, what what's the point? So if you're happy where you're at that really, I don't know, it's kind of hard to put a price tag on you know, enjoying going to work or not hating it and being good at what you do. And so I think sometimes people promote just because they feel they have to, but they were genuinely happy where they were just five or $10,000 ago was that small raise worth, you know, what you have now. Yeah. so And honestly, if I was 20 years younger, that would be me.
00:30:08
Speaker
i would be looking I would be looking at it like a ladder and trying to work my way up as far as I could go.
Work Preferences and Career Advice
00:30:16
Speaker
But because I've already been there and and I'm paying attention in this company and I'm seeing the thing that I'm a nuts and bolts type person. I've always enjoyed process and getting my hands dirty and never getting too far away from the actual labor.
00:30:35
Speaker
in a company. And what I've found even in this company is if I go even one step higher, like director level, most of my days are going to be spent in meetings with other folks at the director and above level versus actually doing the work and working with the people who are doing the work.
00:30:58
Speaker
So at this point in my career, I just really don't want to go there. I would rather stay where I'm at and grow laterally, I guess, just expand in this role versus move up to the next level where I find myself chained to my schedule every day. Yeah. Now you don't have to say the name of your company. I wasn't going to ask, but what, what type of company, what, what exactly do you do? Um,
00:31:28
Speaker
can you Can you sum that up? or you You said you're dealing with customer support, but in what in what way? Yeah. so it's ah It's in the supply chain world. okay and Basically, um we sit between suppliers and retailers. Suppliers will send their product to retailers and then invoice them for their product. and Retailers will give them something known as a deduction.
00:31:56
Speaker
from their invoice for various reasons. For instance, they would say, hey, there here's a deduction because there was a shortage. Like you said you were going to give us 10 units and you only gave us eight. Or here's a deduction because this pallet was crushed. The product on this pallet was crushed. Things like that. And these deductions, it sounds fairly cut and dried. Like, okay, well, they received it and something was missing or something was crushed.
00:32:26
Speaker
But what we found is that 80% of the time, that's actually not true. So our role, we created software that makes it easier for customers to actually to dispute those. So for instance, they say, you say we received only eight out of 10, but I've got a bill of lading here that's got a stamp on it that shows you actually your dock worker said we got 10 out of 10. So please pay us for the two that you deducted. So that's kind of how that works. And there is a lot of money in that um we get our customers back millions of dollars ah just by helping them actually
00:33:15
Speaker
dispute the deductions. and What we actually do is we create software. We have a software that makes it much easier and much faster and gives them much better visibility into the deductions they're receiving. so okay and then It educates them about what it is you need to do to win back these deductions. Now, you said that you're getting your customers back millions, so you're not dealing with you're not dealing with just small little local shops, you're probably dealing with some huge corporations. That's correct. ah Okay. And I would imagine you're dealing with hundreds of thousands of, you know, do hickies or widgets, whatever the product may be, truckloads of stuff, multiple truckloads of stuff. So I can see how inventory man, that's a legitimate full time job for a lot of people. Yes.
00:34:08
Speaker
Yeah, it's a big business and we have enterprise level customers that are you know spending billions, you know being paid billions of dollars by retailers every year. Wow. Yeah. So yeah, they their deductions add up very quickly. so And there's a lot of that money can be gotten back as long as you know how to do it. And that's where we step in.
00:34:32
Speaker
Well, yeah, yeah obviously you want to have the money go where it needs to go. If um if somebody wanted to get into your line of work, what um if they were looking at I'm graduating from high school and I'm going to go to college, is it a general business degree?
Supply Chain Careers and Skills
00:34:48
Speaker
Is it management? What type of education could could get them in the door for a company like the one that you work for now?
00:34:59
Speaker
Well, if they were going just to get in the door in general, um there are a lot of supply chain degrees where you could basically, especially in the Arkansas area where Walmart lives. A lot of the colleges around there have supply chain management type degrees. Oh, I didn't know that. You could just go straight for it, you know basically.
00:35:26
Speaker
um that's That's probably the most direct thing you could do. um We also offer, like at our particular company, we offer internships. We get some really great candidates in via the internships and you know they can do all sorts of things in our company. And we actually hire Pretty much every intern class, there's at least one or two or possibly more interns that end up being offered a full-time job afterwards. It's a great way to kind of test the waters and they're paid internships. So they're they're making reasonable amount of money while they're working for us as interns. And then the payoff is they get offered a job at the end in some cases.
00:36:10
Speaker
I know you don't work for this the schools that offer these degrees, but are these typically two year or four year degrees or is it just some kind of a certificate program or do you know? ah Probably a little of both. Okay. There are four four year degrees, but you can also go in and get certifications and things like that. and Okay. there There's many levels that you could, where you could get get your foot in the door. um And of course, if you have, like in in my particular role, customer support, ah out of college, it's probably a little tougher, but most entry-level customer support roles, they know that, well, I should put it this way, companies that will hire someone for customer support recognize that it's an entry-level type role, so they're more apt to hire someone out of college
00:37:05
Speaker
who has demonstrated some sort of ability in, you know, being able to troubleshoot software or, you know, those kinds of things. it's It's a little tricky. It's kind of like, how do you, you know, you need experience to get the job, but you need a, you need a job to get experience. Right. So yeah, it can be a little tricky, but customer support would be one of those roles where you could,
00:37:33
Speaker
you'd be more likely to be able to get a job as a customer support rep somewhere. Okay. And then parlay that into a real customer support role at a company like mine. Okay. And it sounds like it's a pretty large industry. So it's not like you would not have opportunities for, for advancement or for growth. Oh, no, definitely. There's, there's plenty of opportunity for growth. I mean, a lot of that depends on the company in our particular case, that's what we're looking for.
00:38:04
Speaker
I mentioned earlier, you know, that I really value people coming in and getting that foundational experience. Like part of what I consider to be my mission as the manager of customer support is to train up support specialists and then empower them to find something else within the company that they want to learn and do, and then help move them into that new role.
00:38:32
Speaker
because it is an entry level role, even though it's a real, you know, it is a real career. I mean, it takes a lot to be a good customer support specialist, but it's an hourly position in a company full of salaried positions as an example. So folks don't want to stay there forever. Right. And I take it as my mission to have them come in, train them up, get them up to speed and then start looking around and trying to find something within the company that they'd like to do and then empower them to step into new roles and then I'll bring in someone else and start the process all over again.
00:39:17
Speaker
Well, it sounds like you're providing your company with some quality talent and then figuring out what their skills are, what they like, where their drive is, and then putting them in the position that fits them and their skill set well. They're probably going to be happy in that position and their they're end product, which is their job, is going to be pretty good. Absolutely. um That concept really works well because not only does the employee have the chance to observe the role they want for as long as they want, sit in on calls, sit in on meetings, you know and really determine if that's something they want to do. But on the other side, the manager of that role that they're trying to get into has the ability to observe them and decide, is this someone I actually do want to pull into my department? So it's a two-way street and it's a win-win because
00:40:12
Speaker
None of us really love having to go out into the wild to find another employee. So it's kind of a sacrifice on my part to be willing to do that because I'm the one who's going to suffer while my good employees move on to better greener pastures. It's training day all the time, isn't it? Exactly. But someone's got to do it. And if you're the manager of an entry level type department, that's going to be your role.
00:40:43
Speaker
This is the way it is. Well, you're surrounding yourself with quality people too. um youre I mean, have you ever considered being a recruiter? Because it sounds like that's kind of what you're- Yeah, I wouldn't know that. No, the hiring process is the worst part of my job. Yeah. So ah no, I would I would never I mean, I i just would never want to be a recruiter. I think those folks deserve a medal. I don't know how they I don't know how they do that. Well, that's let's partly that into a couple of questions. um I was going to ask you what you dislike about your job the most and also what you like about your job the most.
00:41:22
Speaker
We know that you have a strong distaste for ah hiring. I'm sure firing would fall under that same umbrella. Nobody likes to do that. But are there any other things that you you don't particularly enjoy about your job or you wish that you could change, but it's just kind of the nature of of the beast?
00:41:43
Speaker
um
00:41:46
Speaker
Honestly, in this particular company, with this particular role, I'm very happy with, good I mean, because it one of the things that our company does that I think is is really wise is give us, they give us a lot of autonomy within our role. So as long as you're taking that seriously and doing a good job with that, you're pretty much left alone to kind of build your own little empire. right So there's really no reason you should have multiple aspects of your job that you don't like.
00:42:19
Speaker
um unless you're just not not fit for the role you're in. you know Maybe you signed up for, for instance, we have a ah section of the company that does cold calling. okay If I had signed up for that, I would hate that. All you do all day long is gather contacts and cold call customers or potential customers and try to convince them to sign up for a demo to see our software.
00:42:48
Speaker
I would absolutely hate that job. So if I was in that role, I'd have much more to complain about. But knowing myself and knowing I'm really into the technical stuff and I really love to get into roles where there's a ah heavy ah learning aspect and many, many things that you need to kind of dig into and understand. Being in customer support scratches that itch perfectly because every day I learned something I didn't know the day before. And the fun part to me is being able to not only pass it on to my team, but also support the teams around me.
00:43:24
Speaker
with that information and bring us all up. So it's it's very rewarding actually. um well good Like I said, the only part I really don't love is the hiring part. And that's just because, you know, you're just Like ah last time I hired, I had 120 resumes to go through oh within the like six hours. chain Yeah. And then I narrowed it down to like 10 and then I had to get on the call with all 10 of them and talk with them a little while and then narrow that down even more and then coordinate with everyone's schedules to try to bring them in and do
00:44:00
Speaker
we have a three part interview process that we have to go through where we ah bring in other people so they can help me evaluate. It's just a it's important because it helps us really do a good job of screening and trying to get really quality employees. But ah yeah, it's no fun. Yeah, it's I can't imagine that's fun for your side or for the person that's being interviewed. It's just nobody likes to job hunt. So Yeah. So yeah, I'd say I really i can't complain. I ah really enjoy really enjoy what I do. So one of the questions that um is always on people's minds when you talk about a career is potential earnings.
Salary Insights and Employee Value
00:44:46
Speaker
So I'm not asking you directly what you make, but what what is the
00:44:51
Speaker
like the entry level salary, let's use your current company and as an example. I think you said it was hourly. What can someone expect to make hourly yeah once they get their foot in the door? And then where could they end up salary wise is after a promotion or two? Well, it's really regionally based. So I can only speak to Bentonville area in Arkansas, right next to
00:45:20
Speaker
Walmart. okay um But for a customer support rep, it comes in right around 50K a year. And okay all right and for a manager, ah most of the managers in the company are making somewhere between 75 and probably 120, something like that. I mean, there's a lot of lot more leeway in the manager role, um depending on how long you've been there and experience and things like that. um ah But going back to the customer support rep, had you been there, say your customer support rep, you come in at 50K, you're getting a five or so percent raise every year, something like that.
00:46:06
Speaker
Um, we have our particular company has bonuses. So as long as you meet your metrics, which is usually customer service based, like, uh, customer, um, scores, like if they score you highly, uh, you know, you can make another couple of grand a year in bonuses. And then we have company level bonuses.
00:46:30
Speaker
above that so you can make money there as well. And then usually you have either a stock option program or something like that. So you can also bring in a little there. So for our particular company or package for a 50K a year roll is probably right around 60 ish when it was all said and done.
00:46:51
Speaker
Um, but, and every year you can go up a couple grand from there as a regular customer support rep. And then plus you're going to have benefits too, right? Health insurance or maybe a more 401k matching or something along those lines. That's right. Yeah. Nice. Both of those. Okay. So it's, it's, it has to be competitive, you know, because of where we, where we're located. You really have to pay attention to the.
00:47:17
Speaker
to what folks in your area are paying and make sure that you are competitive because you we really do want to be competitive. you know we're We've got some really like a University of Arkansas right there that we were trying to pull the top level students from there, things like that. So you want to be attractive. yeah And a lot of ah the way we do the attractive side is by the culture of the company.
00:47:45
Speaker
Lots of parties, lots of free food. um Very flexible schedule. Everybody loves free food. Right. We have unlimited PTO, things like that. Oh, nice. Yeah. So things like that tend to attract folks who are really concerned about their work-life balance. Sure. But then on the manager level, ah like I said, anywhere from like 75 to probably 120 or something like that.
00:48:14
Speaker
um Same deal, you're getting raises every year. And then you're also getting bonuses. And then as you take on more employees, so for instance, if I was to pull in more sub departments, if you will, each one of those would come with a nice 10 to 15% raise, something like that.
00:48:38
Speaker
So it kind of works like that. Nice. So you're not going to get rich, but ah you can definitely make a good living and be comfortable, right especially in this part of the country. Well, and that what you just said right there in that part of the country, that that's pretty good. I know somebody that's living in Los Angeles or San Diego may think that that's you know that's what my barista at Starbucks makes. But of course, you know the cost of living out there is through the roof, so it doesn't translate.
00:49:04
Speaker
um But yeah, for the Arkansas area, I would think that would be very attractive to someone, especially right out of college. so Sure. yeah and Especially you know if if they have the right mindset, I would tell anyone right out of college, like if you want to get in this industry, this is your best method for doing it. Get in at an entry level somewhere at one of these companies.
00:49:31
Speaker
and you know, customer support is a great option. Also that other role I mentioned where you're cold calling. That's another option that is kind of on the sales track. Right. like If you're the type of person that is an extrovert and want and think you could do well in sales, that's where you kind of start. Okay. um And if you're more of a technical person and you like problem solving, that's when you you you try for customer support. So yeah, I i would highly
00:50:02
Speaker
encourage like college graduates to think about that. like Think of where you want to end up and then reverse engineer it back to, okay, well, what entry-level role could I take today that I could build from here and and get there? That's a really important point that you just made. I think a lot of people think, well, I've got a four-year degree and it's from a prestigious school, which University of Arkansas absolutely is.
00:50:27
Speaker
I'm just going to show up and they'll put me in management and that's not how it works. You got to work your way up. um Where you start may be higher, but you're still, you got to show that you've got what it takes to be in management and I'm going to parlay that into a question that I'm curious on your answer. I've seen interviews with CEOs and stuff online and and watch videos and whatnot and they talk about what's missing from some of the folks that are entering the job market now, the soft skills. what what um What types of soft skills or what things do you think folks, if they're really wanting to separate themselves from their peers and and shine, what can they do? I know there's degrees in education and certifications and whatnot, but those intangible things that you don't really learn in a classroom,
00:51:23
Speaker
what what would you be looking for if you were hiring someone? Yeah, um I can take immediate examples to kind of highlight that. um I have someone that I recently hired who from day one was ah excited about the role and made it clear that he was excited about the role and jumped in with both feet and asked tons of questions showed that he was engaged and took what I taught him
00:52:05
Speaker
and started trying to get the big picture of what I was going for so that instead of having to ask me a question every time he saw something that was slightly different than what I had talked to him about, he would be able to go, okay, well, I know the main goal here is this. So this is just a slight variation from that. I'm going to try this. Or if he knew that, you know, this is just beyond him, he knew to raise his hand and ask the question.
00:52:35
Speaker
But mainly, he he would offer to come into the office every day, even though we have a flexible schedule. For the first two weeks, he came into the office every single day and made sure that he was available to any anyone around him who would give him their time to teach him something. He was made himself available. He understood the value of physically being there and not like sliding into the role slowly and you know kind of trying to disappear. um Things like that, um asking lots of questions,
00:53:19
Speaker
ah showing curiosity and digging into things. like going you know If someone goes, this thing is broken, I don't know why. What I want to see them do next is, well, I wonder if it's this, I wonder if it's that. Let me go check this, let me go check that. I don't want it to be, this thing is broken, I wonder why. Well, moving on, it's not my problem. reno And especially in customer support role,
00:53:47
Speaker
That's our job. Every day, all day, is to see a problem and start to dig and try to figure out what's going on. and What I found is folks like that learn extremely quickly. Their learning curve is is really short because they do these things out quickly. They're just a sponge just soaking up every bit of information that they can. um That's only going to help them in the long run. Plus, they see this guy sounds like he's naturally curious.
00:54:16
Speaker
Yes. Yeah, that's huge. And also just, you know, personality type things like not being annoying. I don't know how to put it. but Yeah. Well, you know, that's unfortunately in every occupation is there somebody that's annoying. So yeah. Well, one thing is, you know, just having enough knowing yourself well enough to know when I should be quiet.
00:54:47
Speaker
You know, like some folks, like the thing that they do that's annoying is that they're just, they're they're set on 10 all the time. yeah And, you know, they're loud and boisterous and they're throwing their opinions out there. And you just have to know, especially in this day and age, for every two people that hear your opinion, one of them is going to disagree with you. yeah And they may not say it out loud or they may. And you might find yourself in a battle and that you didn't expect.
00:55:17
Speaker
and you know things like that where it's just, it really pays to... you know, ease into that sort of thing on the social side. Like socially, don't go too crazy up front, you know, like take your time, get to know people, get to know personalities before you show them your personality. Right. For better or worse. You may have heard this, but my dad always told me God gave you two ears and two eyes and one mouth. So you should listen and observe twice as much as you speak.
00:55:49
Speaker
and Yeah, that's great advice for any new employee. Yeah. and it's not that It's not the you know just shut up, we don't care about what you have to say, but you're new here and your best approach is to observe and listen. We're trying to help you be successful. so Forget about what you know for just a second and we will show you how to do your job better and then you can personalize it later when you become good at it.
00:56:16
Speaker
But it doesn't mean we don't value you or we think you're stupid. It just means that you're new and nobody walks in new knowing how to do everything. So, catch yourself some slack and you know observe. but And that reminded me of another thing that I find very important is when your manager gives you something to do, do not make them need to come follow up with you.
00:56:44
Speaker
to make sure it was done and especially to find out it wasn't done. yeah you know ah that That is huge. um That's one of those things that really stands out when there are certain people and this guy's one of them. I know if I gave him the job,
00:57:01
Speaker
Number one, he's engaged enough in the moment to ask me the right questions so that he really has a grasp of exactly what I'm trying to get done. Number one, number two, he most likely is going to come back to me sooner than I expect and say it's done.
00:57:18
Speaker
right It's just, I can almost guarantee that with him. And to me, that's huge. I mean, he's, he's definitely going places. Like there's no question about it. It's going to be, sounds like yeah, it's going to be a matter of him looking around. Like I said, just seeing something else he's interested in and then working his way into that, into that new role. So.
00:57:39
Speaker
That's a big one, I think. It really is nice when you have folks that show up and you're like, man, we got a good one with this one here. He's going to go places. And it just makes it enjoyable to come to work because you feel like you're with someone who's competent or they're going to give you their best. So. Right. Yeah, well, it's kind of like kindred spirits. Oh, sure. Hey, here's someone who's like me. I like this. This is good.
00:58:08
Speaker
Yeah, your best friend at work. So we've talked about your job. And of course, that's all fun and everything. But um let's have, you know, I'm going to ask you a couple of other questions that are just kind of easygoing questions. Just ah you don't have to really put your thinking cap on for these much. But um tell me your favorite vacation. and where Where have you been that you just can't wait to go back? Or if someone says, what was your favorite vacation? It's always the first place that pops in your mind.
00:58:38
Speaker
Well, I can't say that I could recreate it now, but as a kid, my family and my extended family all met up in Beaver's Bend, Oklahoma, which is a clear river, the Illinois River, I believe. ah Pine trees. We had we had two cabins.
00:59:00
Speaker
And all my cousins were there and we were swimming and canoeing and all that kind of stuff. It was just the most fun thing ever. I love that. That's actually one of the reasons I decided to move to Missouri. It's because I love Clearwater Streams and wanted that wanted to find that kind of topography to live near. Well in Oklahoma, it's just a stone's throw away. So if you ever want to go back,
00:59:29
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I'll, I'll definitely go back to Beaver's Bend at some point. I'd like to see it again. See, see what it's all about. But yeah, there's loves a lot of really nice places around here too. So wouldn't have to. What's your favorite meal? If, uh, if someone said you got one meal, I'll make you anything that you want. It's on me. What would you choose?
00:59:55
Speaker
That's tough. It would probably be something Mexican. Yeah. oh You know, I'd have to say, New Mexican cuisine stuffed soap appears. Oh, that doesn't happen. If you know, you know, and if you haven't had them, you're missing out. All right. What's uh, tell, tell me and my listener, what's the one thing that you would like people ah to know about you that they may not know?
01:00:29
Speaker
I don't want people to know anything about me. So you're private, so that would be okay. All right, moving on. I guess that's the answer. Yeah, I'm a private person. What's one of the best compliments that you've ever received from an employer, a friend, a family member, whatever?
01:00:49
Speaker
Um, well, actually, just recently, I had an employee who was this really struggling because they were offered a role outside my department. And they said that the number one thing that is keeping them from saying yes, is they, they they don't want to lose me as their manager. Wow, that was a pretty good compliment. Yeah, that is man. That says you're doing a heck of a job. Yeah.
01:01:17
Speaker
but I thought that was pretty good. Yeah. what um what types well is there Is there anybody that you find yourself, whether it's on social media or in the news or a famous person or an athlete or you know in any category, is there somebody that you admire and and you find yourself listening to their speeches or whatever content they're producing? ah Is there anybody that you would you would put on that list?
01:01:47
Speaker
Hmm.
01:01:52
Speaker
You can see i mean say i I mean, that's fine if you want. I would say I admire Elon Musk. Yeah, I wouldn't necessarily say his speeches or anything, but just he's a go getter and everything he every thing he does ends up being a success like Tesla and rockets.
01:02:15
Speaker
I mean, I just feel like, you know, people say he works them hard. Yeah, but I just I really like that someone who's very industrious like that and has just big ideas and makes sure and brings them to life. I love that.
01:02:31
Speaker
I think what you just said there, that big idea thing, you you see those people show up in society every now and again. They're kind of the Thomas Edison's or the Tesla's, Nikola Tesla. they Those people that just have these huge ideas that when you hear them explain it or when you hear them tell you what they're going to do,
01:02:51
Speaker
They almost come across as a little bit off and you think that guy's not playing with a full deck. But you need those kind of people in society just kind of to push the limits and go, you know what, why can't we go to Mars? I think I'm going to try and make that work. And then they spend, you know, 30, 40, 50 years their whole life trying to figure out a way to make a rocket that can go to space and then land on a platform you know ah that's the size of a house kind of thing. I mean, 20 years ago, people thought you were a lunatic, but now he's already done it.
01:03:26
Speaker
So, and now he's got all these electric cars and he's got satellites that provide internet all over the globe. And so you got to have those big idea, big thinkers that are willing to risk it all and sleep under their desk to make it work. yeah They do come across as a bit crazy sometimes, but I guess you need that. so Yeah. The idea is crazy until it's right there in front of you. It actually happens. Right. and right Yeah, it's crazy until it works and then all of a sudden you're genius, right? Right. All right. I always end my interviews with one question and if you can't think of anything, that's fine. But what's the corniest joke you've ever heard that you're embarrassed that you laughed at? It's something my dad said one time. Yeah. We were in a restaurant on vacation and it was like a pizza place.
01:04:21
Speaker
And they had some rock music playing in the background and he was trying to talk. And the music's like, I wanna rock, yeah, rock, yeah. I want to rock, yeah, rock, yeah, rock. And he got ah he got this annoyed look on his face and he goes, will someone give him one so he'll shut up?
01:04:54
Speaker
Oh my goodness, that's brilliant. ah I've never forgotten that. Yeah, I won't either. Yeah, I won't either.
01:05:05
Speaker
And with that, we will wrap up our episode of the jobs podcast. Thank you, Jason, for joining me today. I always wait until after the interview is over to ask for like subscriptions and sharing. I want to make sure you like the content and you feel it's worth liking, subscribing to and sharing with everybody that you know. So thanks again, folks. And we will see you on the next one.