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Barry - K9 Police Officer
34 Plays20 days ago
Who doesn't love a good interview about dogs? Well, criminals won't like this particular type of dog, the K9 officer. On this episode of The Jobs Podcast, we speak with Barry, a career K9 officer who not only patrols the streets with his 4 legged partner, but also trains new officers and has a ton of solid information on all that goes into a K9 program. We talk about the dedication and commitment it takes, how a K9 dog is developed and utilized, whats it's really like to be on the receiving end of a dog bite and so much more. This was a captivating interview to say the least. If you have an interest in dogs, in a career in law enforcement, are considering the shift to becoming a K9 officer, or if you just wonder what all goes into the K9 officers you see in your own town, you will not want to skip this episode.
If you found this interview interesting or helpful and would like to support the show, you can do so HERE. Thanks!
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Transcript
Introduction to the Podcast and Guest
00:00:01
The Jobs Podcast
Hey folks, you're listening to the Jobs Podcast. I'm your host, Tim Hendricks. Your time is valuable. I'm not going to waste it. So let's get right to the interview. Today we have Barry with us. Barry is a sergeant and specifically canine handler in the great state of Texas.
00:00:17
The Jobs Podcast
And he's joined us today. Welcome, Barry. Thanks for joining me on the Jobs Podcast.
Barry's Background and Entry into Law Enforcement
00:00:21
Barry Sullivan
Thank you very much, sir. i appreciate it.
00:00:23
The Jobs Podcast
So let's go ahead and start off with an early, your origin story, so to speak, about where you were born, early upbringing, family members, and we'll just go from there.
00:00:32
Barry Sullivan
Great. Yeah. So, um, so i was born and raised here in Texas in a town called Louisville, um, you know, middle-class upper middle-class, uh, family, um, with the high school, um, got out of high school, uh,
00:00:50
Barry Sullivan
And started going to community college probably for about a year or so. But as soon as I got out of high school, I went to go work for the sheriff's office, Denton County Sheriff's Office, as a jailer at 18 years old.
00:01:06
The Jobs Podcast
Nice.
00:01:06
Barry Sullivan
And, you know, you know, back then it was like maybe thirty two thousand dollars a year. But as an 18 year old, that's not a bad salary plus benefits while I'm going through school during the day and working at night. So.
00:01:21
Barry Sullivan
um You know, I had a pretty ah great family, mom and dad. um They're still married today. Been together over 40 years.
00:01:29
The Jobs Podcast
nice
00:01:29
Barry Sullivan
ah So so kind of just, you know small, not not so much a small town, but ah just a normal upbringing. um My dad was a yeah was a manager for General Motors and my mom worked.
00:01:43
Barry Sullivan
ah for Well, she started out, it was Southwestern Bell, but, you know, changed names over the years. i think it's now it's AT&T, but ah both of them are now retired. ah But, you know, your basic ah played sports growing up, football, baseball, just your run of the mill kid, I guess, growing up, nothing too special here.
00:02:04
The Jobs Podcast
When did you have an inkling that you wanted to work in
The Role of Law Enforcement in Communities
00:02:07
The Jobs Podcast
law enforcement? Was that something from an early age or did some event happen that caused you to to examine that career?
00:02:14
Barry Sullivan
Well, you know, ever since I knew what a police officer was, I was always passionate about it. always knew it. I mean, we'd been around ah police officers, you know, school resource officers growing up.
00:02:25
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:02:25
Barry Sullivan
um
00:02:26
The Jobs Podcast
Oh.
00:02:26
Barry Sullivan
But we had a yeah ah my best friend, Justin. ah we've We've known each other since T-ball. We're still really good friends. He was the best man in my wedding. But his his dad was Secret Service.
00:02:37
The Jobs Podcast
oh
00:02:38
Barry Sullivan
And ah he was kind of like a second dad to me. And growing up, I got to see all these cool things that he did. And he would he would show us around his different work vehicles. And there was a specific incident that I thought was just unbelievably cool. we We were two young kids going to school. It was an elementary school thing.
00:02:56
Barry Sullivan
don't know if you remember, but they'd have you bring your bike and do like a bike rodeo safety thing.
00:03:00
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah, I do.
00:03:01
Barry Sullivan
day or whatever.
00:03:02
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:03:02
Barry Sullivan
So we're, we're here. We are, we're really young. Probably shouldn't have been riding our bikes to school in the first place, but but we're, we're riding our bikes to school and we can't get through this four way stop sign intersection because of how busy it is.
00:03:13
Barry Sullivan
And so of course, Justin, his dad, who's a secret service agent, he's following us to school and sees that we can't get to the intersection. So he uses his secret service car to go out in the intersection.
00:03:25
Barry Sullivan
And back then they had those, ah those cherry bombs, you know, that red, you know what mean?
00:03:28
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:03:29
Barry Sullivan
That old Kojak light.
00:03:30
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah.
00:03:31
Barry Sullivan
Yeah. So he chunks that thing up on top, pulls out in the intersection and stops traffic and lets us cross the intersection. And it just so happened that a busload of our friends was sitting at the stop sign and sees, I mean, it it was, know, street credit.
00:03:44
The Jobs Podcast
Nice.
00:03:47
Barry Sullivan
Essentially we got little bit street cred, but always thought that was really cool.
00:03:47
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:03:51
Barry Sullivan
And, you know, as I grew up with him, he was a huge, huge influence in my life as it relates to law enforcement. I mean, he yeah when they moved away when we were young, they moved down to Austin because he was assigned to the ah Lady Bird Johnson detail was actually protecting her on her ranch ah down near Austin.
00:04:10
The Jobs Podcast
Okay.
00:04:12
Barry Sullivan
And I actually got to go on a hunting trip down there. ah to hunt on her property to help, uh, the game. I guess they had wild game out there and every year they had to manage it.
00:04:23
Barry Sullivan
And so we got to go out and go with a professional hunter as young kids, maybe in our teens. And, uh, after we were done for the day, we were about to leave and and I got to meet Lady Bird Johnson.
00:04:34
Barry Sullivan
he, he took us up to the house and I got to meet Lady Bird Johnson, which is a really cool thing. ah you know, back then I thought it was okay, but now seeing the, you know, how, how cool that was to meet a former first lady.
00:04:47
Barry Sullivan
That was, that was pretty neat.
00:04:48
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:04:48
Barry Sullivan
So, and we got a personal tour of their property down there, the house. ah So really cool. I just got to see how interesting the things that he did. And and I fell in love with law enforcement, even growing up as a knucklehead teenager.
00:05:03
Barry Sullivan
ah Louisville PD was just awesome. I mean, every time I had contact with him, just being a knucklehead kid running around, They were always ah very friendly and and you could tell that they had ah community policing at heart. So that's what just ah kept attracting me like a bug to a bug zapper, man. I just I kept it's just something i had in my mind and and ultimately got me to where I am today.
00:05:29
The Jobs Podcast
There's a lot of, um it doesn't make the news a lot of times, but you'll see it on some social media. There's a lot of law enforcement officers that don't just show up and crack some skulls and treat everybody like dirt. They get out there and they play basketball with kids.
00:05:42
The Jobs Podcast
They check on people.
00:05:42
Barry Sullivan
Absolutely.
00:05:43
The Jobs Podcast
They are a positive influence. And that's really what policing, that's a big part of policing that really isn't mentioned enough.
00:05:51
Barry Sullivan
You know, and I agree with you because we see all the cool police chases, you know, you see ah the fighting and the people getting tasered, things like that.
00:05:59
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah. Yeah.
00:06:00
Barry Sullivan
And that's part of the job. Absolutely. But you know what?
00:06:02
The Jobs Podcast
Sure.
00:06:03
Barry Sullivan
and And we don't care whether this gets seen or not. But I mean, even today, while me and my my guys will be eating at a restaurant and little kids will come running up to us, which we love because that means their parents aren't teaching them to be scared of us.
00:06:16
Barry Sullivan
But
00:06:17
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:06:17
Barry Sullivan
um You know, little kids come running up to us and they apologize. Oh, I'm so sorry. I'm like, no way. I mean, they want a sticker. They want to say hi.
00:06:23
The Jobs Podcast
Mm-hmm.
00:06:23
Barry Sullivan
It's those it's a small interactions that we have with the public that changes can change ah ah the life of a child just by a simple contact. it It did that for me.
00:06:33
The Jobs Podcast
yeah
00:06:33
Barry Sullivan
And we have to remember that. And I think, you know, 99% of law enforcement knows that they're out there every day contacting the public. They're joking around and spending quality time with our, with our community, but that's typically not what is glorified in the news or on social media that often it's, it's usually the high speed or the, the one out of a million chances that, you know, an officer's made a mistake and did something wasn't supposed to.
00:06:44
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
00:06:51
The Jobs Podcast
yeah
00:07:01
Barry Sullivan
So yeah, ah Small impacts make a big deal. i mean, it it did for me.
00:07:06
The Jobs Podcast
It has a real cumulative effect. And I do wish more of that stuff was highlighted on the news because that I think that that is more effective as far as the impact on society and kids younger realizing this is just another guy. He's got a badge on. Yes, but you're also a father, a husband, a son, ah friend.
00:07:29
The Jobs Podcast
And those are people. They just want to go home at the end of the day, just like you do.
00:07:33
Barry Sullivan
Absolutely. Absolutely.
Career Development and Education
00:07:35
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah. So you're schooling, you decided to go to school and you were working as a jailer at the same time. That's, that's a pretty full load for 18 year old
00:07:44
Barry Sullivan
Yeah. You know, it it really was. And looking back on it, I can't, you know, you see some of the young guys nowadays, uh, It was, it was, I was so, I had my mind made up so bad that I wanted to go out. I wanted to get into law enforcement.
00:08:00
Barry Sullivan
So I started thinking, well, I can't become a cop at 18. So how do I get my foot in the door to start getting a little bit of experience and maybe start trying to understand if this is really the route I want to go.
00:08:05
The Jobs Podcast
Hmm. Hmm.
00:08:12
Barry Sullivan
And, uh, and, you know, getting my foot in the door, working at the jail, ah if I'm looking back on it now, it was such an amazing experience. And honestly, I think every cop should work in the jail before they go out on the streets because it really teaches you in the jail. You don't have the tools that we have on the street.
00:08:32
Barry Sullivan
You have, uh, your, your negotiating skills, you have your voice, your verbal judo and your hands.
00:08:37
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
00:08:38
Barry Sullivan
And that's it. Excuse me. And, uh, you know, that really taught me how to pick up on people trying to manipulate things.
00:08:48
Barry Sullivan
And it taught me really how to communicate as a young man at 18 years old.
00:08:49
The Jobs Podcast
here
00:08:53
Barry Sullivan
You know, i I wasn't, I don't think I was very naive. ah My parents didn't, you know, shelter me to the world out, but um it really opened my eyes to see what kind of people were out there in our community Uh, that, you know, most people don't realize, you know, and it teaches you to talk, talk with different people or from different lifestyles.
00:09:13
Barry Sullivan
And, you know, those couple of years, uh, that I worked in the jail, uh, before I went to the police academy, ah man, that put me at a, at a much higher benefit, or I guess gave me a better edge when it came to work in the streets, just because I didn't have to rely on intermediate weapons or,
00:09:32
Barry Sullivan
um just going hands on immediately. It really gave me back before it was popular, the ability to deescalate situations, if that makes sense.
00:09:40
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah. Probably gave you a lot of street smarts too, learning with people all the tricks of the of their trade, so to speak.
00:09:47
Barry Sullivan
Oh, yeah. and they're And they're bored. You know, you got people that may be going to do life or spending 30 years, 20 years, 10 years in jail.
00:09:50
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:09:54
Barry Sullivan
They're bored. You treat them with respect because they they are people that made mistakes.
00:09:58
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:09:58
Barry Sullivan
And they're they're just like you and I. they They just made a mistake and they're being held accountable for it. And so if you treat them like just normal people, like we're the same thing, a lot of them spend a lot of time.
00:10:08
Barry Sullivan
I learned Spanish in the jail ah just because we were bored.
00:10:10
The Jobs Podcast
Huh.
00:10:12
Barry Sullivan
I'm stuck in there for eight hours with these fellas and You know, here I am learning in Spanish and they've taught me a lot of Spanish. It's probably saved my life over the years. And, ah you know, teaching the ins and outs on looking at, you know, prison tattoos, things that I can recognize on the streets that could give me a little bit of extra officer safety to realize maybe who I'm dealing with.
00:10:31
Barry Sullivan
So I'm not caught off guard. So as an 18 year old, that's just I'm drinking water through a fire hydrant, if that makes sense. You know i mean?
00:10:38
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah, it does. Were you also able to interact with some of your future coworkers, the older guys that would bring people in?
00:10:45
Barry Sullivan
Oh yeah, absolutely. You're building these relationships with patrol and, and working for the County.
00:10:51
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:10:51
Barry Sullivan
And, you know we, we see your municipalities coming into the County. So you're, you're meeting all these different people and, and I'm kind of a social butterfly anyways, I'm really big on networking and that's a big deal in law enforcement, especially when you work for a smaller, smaller town.
00:11:03
The Jobs Podcast
yeah
00:11:07
Barry Sullivan
Um, you know I built these relationships that today, have you know i have good friends that we were patrol together. Now they're chief deputies or you know captains and chiefs of police at different locations. So um you know it's these relationships that you build i in your tenure, even at a young age, it's so important.
00:11:30
The Jobs Podcast
When you were doing this bailer, I'm sorry, the jailer job and you were going to school, were you getting your criminal justice degree?
00:11:40
Barry Sullivan
Initially, i was just working on my basics, trying to get my basics out of the way.
00:11:43
The Jobs Podcast
Okay.
00:11:44
Barry Sullivan
My my initial plan, it's funny you ask that, my initial ah degree was actually going to be in business, something that this was way back in the day.
00:11:52
The Jobs Podcast
Hmm.
00:11:54
Barry Sullivan
had always had the goal to go federal. and And that was because of my buddy's dad that we talked about earlier. And um he had told me that the Secret Service and some other federal agencies, they like to see applicants with degrees that are outside of criminal justice.
00:12:11
Barry Sullivan
I mean, they you know, Secret Service, you're thinking that back back then they're under the Treasury. Yeah. ah FBI, you know, they have law degrees or theyre their business degrees or financial crime degrees, things like that.
00:12:16
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah. Yeah.
00:12:23
Barry Sullivan
um They don't want just people that that don't their mindsets only law enforcement. They want people that can think outside the box. And so back then when I had the the ah inkling to go federal, ah i had started working on a business degree.
00:12:38
Barry Sullivan
But, you know, ah so I will tell you this, a mistake that I i made looking back now, um I stopped going to college to put myself through the police academy.
00:12:48
The Jobs Podcast
ah
00:12:48
Barry Sullivan
and And that was a huge mistake because I'm now 40, I'm my 40s, and I'm finishing my degree now through Texas A&M online, which is it it's ah it's so it's a a criminal justice degree. Yeah.
00:13:04
Barry Sullivan
But I'm finishing it now. And as you know, man, things change from when I was in college initially until now.
00:13:08
The Jobs Podcast
yeah they do they do
00:13:10
Barry Sullivan
So, man, you're you're trying to teach a dog new tricks here. And it is not easy. I wish I would have just if in and if my dad's listening to this, I don't want him to hear this part. If you tell him I'm going to call you a liar.
00:13:21
Barry Sullivan
But if I would just listen to my dad and finish college first and then gone to the academy, I think it would have been a little bit easier for me.
00:13:23
The Jobs Podcast
Hmm.
00:13:29
Barry Sullivan
I would have had something to build off of. Yeah. But college is not necessary. I mean, ah I plan on my dream is always to go out where I began. i always thought about running for sheriff towards the end of my career. um That may change the longer that I'm in this job. But um I know that some of the aspirations that I have, I'm probably going to need that degree or it may help me.
00:13:56
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:13:57
Barry Sullivan
But to be to be honest with you, though, you know, I don't have a degree right now and I'm making high six figures. I'm doing very well. We live in a nice home. We have nice cars and I work really hard for it.
00:14:10
Barry Sullivan
But, uh, you know, it's, it's, it's one of those things where I think back in the day that used to push college degrees very hard and not so much your, you know, welding and plumbing.
00:14:21
Barry Sullivan
What I forgot what you call those, those, you know, trades.
00:14:21
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah. Trades. The trades.
00:14:24
Barry Sullivan
Yeah.
00:14:24
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:14:24
Barry Sullivan
The, the trade stuff. So, You know, I think people get so fixated on it and I don't think it's a bad thing to get your degree.
00:14:31
The Jobs Podcast
no
00:14:31
Barry Sullivan
But, you know, people should know that um you can make a living and do very well with a trade. And I and i think that's where I'm at right now. is ah So if that makes sense.
00:14:43
The Jobs Podcast
No, it does make sense. I've made a career in ah in a blue collar job and there's there's a lot of satisfaction in that. And not everybody, I think sometimes sides get demonized and it's, I'm not the type of person that can sit behind a desk all day long. I just can't do it.
00:14:58
The Jobs Podcast
I would go nuts if I had to sit at a computer while.
00:14:58
Barry Sullivan
Oh, yeah.
00:15:01
The Jobs Podcast
and Monday through Friday, nine to five. That's just not my personality. Some people that's right up their alley. And, you know, there's degrees where if you're going to be a lawyer, or a doctor, an accountant, whatever, a degree, a four year college or further makes sense.
00:15:06
Barry Sullivan
Oh, yeah.
00:15:16
The Jobs Podcast
But you can also go to a trade school which um with a much smaller um loan amount or school loan amount when you leave, and then you can start making good money right out of the gate.
00:15:28
Barry Sullivan
Absolutely.
00:15:28
The Jobs Podcast
So it just depends on who you are and what you want out of life.
00:15:32
Barry Sullivan
Absolutely. And and and there's no there's no shame behind it, you know, and
00:15:33
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah. No, not at all.
00:15:37
Barry Sullivan
And, ah you know, me, i um I'm still I'm getting up there in age. But as a canine handler, that was one of the things that I love, even though I work for a small agency. We're right in the DFW Metroplex. So we stay very busy.
00:15:50
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah. Hmm.
00:15:50
Barry Sullivan
and with And my chief loves that we go and help anybody that calls for it because not all agencies have dogs. And i love it. I love going and helping anyone that calls. I do have a dual purpose dog. So we do.
00:16:02
Barry Sullivan
narcotics tracking and apprehension. So even as I get older, I'm i'm coming into 20, 21 years of doing this job. And ah I still love chasing bad guys and, and driving around on nights and, and, and getting in the mix.
00:16:15
Barry Sullivan
So, you know, I'm like you, I i couldn't sit at a desk all day. And, you know, i was joking around with my captain ah a couple weeks ago.
00:16:20
The Jobs Podcast
yeah
00:16:24
Barry Sullivan
And I'm like, man, he said, well, you're going to be in my shoes one day. And I was like, man, I hope not. i couldn't, I couldn't sit in this office all day. I'd go stir crazy.
00:16:31
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah, there's so much paperwork these days when you have a promoted position like that. It's ridiculous.
00:16:36
Barry Sullivan
Absolutely.
00:16:37
The Jobs Podcast
So you you got your, um is it post certification or you're through the police academy? You are now working as a police officer.
Starting a Canine Program
00:16:47
The Jobs Podcast
How long did you do that before the canine entered the picture?
00:16:53
Barry Sullivan
Well, you know, i I started working for the sheriff's office. I spent a few years there, but um you know Back then at the time, sheriff's offices usually don't pay as much as a municipality.
00:17:05
The Jobs Podcast
Okay.
00:17:05
Barry Sullivan
And so I left ah the sheriff's office this on good terms. And I but actually wish I had never left as but if I look back on it now. But I left to go work a short stint with a different agency called Pilot Point, ah Pilot Point Police Department.
00:17:22
Barry Sullivan
And I spent about a year and a half there. ah And it was it was great. I met some of the my best friends that I have now that are family to me. And I stayed there until I found ah back in 2008 when i got hired on at the agency that I'm at now.
00:17:40
Barry Sullivan
And I've been there 17 years in June will be 17 years. And they paid, but they were one of the higher paying agencies in the county, ah you know, better equipment. um You know, they gave us the things that we needed.
00:17:55
The Jobs Podcast
Right.
00:17:55
Barry Sullivan
ah So that's what really attracted me to there. And then, ah and I've been there ever since. And and I became canine back in 2015.
00:18:06
Barry Sullivan
We got a new chief of police and not to dog the chief of police before, before this one that we have now, ah but he was not someone that liked to stir the, you know, rock the boat.
00:18:17
Barry Sullivan
He was, he was one of those guys that liked to keep it going and he was real friendly, great guy.
00:18:18
The Jobs Podcast
right
00:18:22
Barry Sullivan
But, um, our current chief who's been there about 10 years now, he, uh, his name's Patrick Arada. He was actually a former, uh, retired DEA. He was a sack over the aviation division And when he came in I'm telling you, our world changed in Trophy Club.
00:18:39
Barry Sullivan
He likes to spend money and he likes to get it and he likes to buy us the things that we need. And ah probably about less than a year of him being there, he knew how badly I'd been trying to start a canine program for a few years and our old chief just wasn't biting off on it. and here we have this DEA guy coming in as chief. i was like, man, I think this is my time to shine. You know, maybe he will, he'll be the guy to bite off on this. And so one day,
00:19:06
Barry Sullivan
a ah one of our sergeants over the criminal investigations division, he was talking to the chief and the chief brought up to him. It's like, Hey, uh, has trophy club ever had a, uh, canine program? And, uh, that Sergeant goes, no, but if you want to talk about it, go talk to, uh, Barry Sullivan.
00:19:21
Barry Sullivan
He's the guy that you want to, cause I pitched.
00:19:23
The Jobs Podcast
Reputation had gotten around. ah
00:19:24
Barry Sullivan
Oh yeah. Everybody knew I wanted it. I'd done all the leg work. was ready to answer anything that you threw at me. And, uh, so I, he ended up trapping me in the patrol room one day uh, We discussed it and he said, Hey, I know I'm new.
00:19:37
Barry Sullivan
know you don't have, you know, he's a new guy. We don't know if we can trust this guy yet. You know, as a patrolman, you you still get your feelers out there to see what kind of chief this guy's going to be.
00:19:41
The Jobs Podcast
Right.
00:19:46
The Jobs Podcast
Mm-hmm.
00:19:47
Barry Sullivan
And he said, Hey, yeah I know we don't have a lot of established trust yet, but I want to do this. I want to start a program here. And, We started reaching out to the community and we started talking to them and building this thought behind it. And in back in 2015, we were at a council meeting to get this thing approved. And hundreds upon hundreds of people in our community came to support us to get a canine program to the point where the fire marshal couldn't allow anybody else in the building.
00:20:16
The Jobs Podcast
Oh, that's great.
00:20:17
Barry Sullivan
and And to have a community back as like the one that we have, and we still do even after 17 years, ah it's unbelievable how much our community ah supports us.
00:20:20
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:20:27
Barry Sullivan
um we you know we We started the canine program, and ah it's been an unbelievable thing in my in my life. like I would give up everything else just to stay canine.
00:20:40
Barry Sullivan
So it's just an umbe ah unbelievable thing, and I'm so glad that that Chief had the dream to do it with me. and we've been so successful since.
00:20:49
The Jobs Podcast
Do you think that his openness to it, did he have familiarity with canine units with the DEA? And so it was a pretty easy transition for him.
00:20:59
Barry Sullivan
No, I don't think so. I mean, he came from the aviation ah portion of it.
00:21:02
The Jobs Podcast
Oh, okay. All right.
00:21:04
Barry Sullivan
And a funny thing that just a side note is we have staff meetings every year where he asks us what kind of equipment we want because he wants to spend money on us. And every year I ask for a helicopter and every year he turns me down.
00:21:15
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:21:17
Barry Sullivan
So, excuse me, but no, you know, I think ah this chief is one of those guys where he thinks, you know, the criminals are getting smarter as technology gets, you know, more and more. We have to keep up with the type of criminals that we're seeing in today's and you know, today's climate.
00:21:39
Barry Sullivan
And this chief wants to spend money and get us the tools to keep us on the edge. And and that's what he's thinking when he comes in. It's not so much that he's in love with the canine program, ah but I think he just wants to give us everything that we can to make our town stick out, especially from other communities around us.
00:22:01
Barry Sullivan
ah we We have we're part of the crash program SWAT. We have so many opportunities for a so small town And it's all because this guy has brought it here and and given us this opportunity, which which obviously helps with recruiting and retention.
00:22:18
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah. Yeah. yeah
00:22:19
Barry Sullivan
and ah But also, ah other agencies will call for our expertise. ah to come out like the canine and our crash team and things like that. it's just it's it's It's good to know that we may not always be the highest paying agency, but he's going to do everything we he can to get his the tools that we need to do our job and to do it more efficiently, if that makes sense.
00:22:44
The Jobs Podcast
It does. It's nice to have someone who wants to give you all the tools in your toolbox to use that common phrase to allow you to do the best job that you can. And canines seem like such a natural, the hearing, the vision, the smell, the speed, the teeth, everything and law enforcement just seems like that is a no brainer. And I've, I considered, I did a ride along when I was probably in my early twenties with a canine officer.
00:23:11
The Jobs Podcast
um This was out in San Diego, California. I'm not from there originally, but I went to college there and it was beautiful. And I had, the cop was great. I had a lot of fun. His dog was nice, but I realized when I was done, I was like, I don't think law enforcement is for me. I'm more of a, my personality fits the fire side a little bit better.
00:23:28
Barry Sullivan
Right.
00:23:29
The Jobs Podcast
um where I think you have to be a little off kilter to work in the fire service. So I, I fit in with those weirdos better, but um i well I've always been fascinated with canine.
00:23:35
Barry Sullivan
Yeah, I agree with you.
00:23:39
The Jobs Podcast
It's just such a cool relationship between the officer. ah Well, officers, I guess I should say to be correct. But what um what was it about, you said you were passionate about the canine unit from the very beginning before you even had a program.
00:23:53
The Jobs Podcast
What was it that basically pulled you in that direction?
00:23:57
Barry Sullivan
ah You know, i've I've always been a dog lover and I've always loved dogs.
00:24:01
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:24:03
Barry Sullivan
I've always had a dog. I've always enjoyed um the relationship that we'd have just with your normal pet. um i will I will preface this with I had no clue what i was getting myself into when I actually went to go get my first dog.
00:24:18
Barry Sullivan
ah You know, something that the chief and I had talked about when we decided to do this was, you know, we don't need this. foaming at the mouth, just angry dog that's just going to nuke everyone.
00:24:27
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah, right.
00:24:30
Barry Sullivan
We need to be able to have a dog that will do his job, but also, um you know, be a, yeah, well, yeah, be an ambassador to the community because there's such a, not everybody loves the police, but mostly everybody loves dogs.
00:24:34
The Jobs Podcast
Have an off switch.
00:24:38
The Jobs Podcast
Sure.
00:24:43
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:24:43
Barry Sullivan
And so by doing that, you know, I told the chief, I'm going to come back with a dog that ah is going to be, you know, this go getting dog that's going to go out and bite bad guys and find drugs, but also, ah would allow a kid to pet him.
00:24:57
Barry Sullivan
You know, we need that switch.
00:24:58
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah. Yeah. Sure.
00:24:59
Barry Sullivan
We need that personality for the type of community that we're in. You know, some agencies, that's all they want is a dog that, you know, just is going to eat anything when it gets out of the car and that's okay.
00:25:10
Barry Sullivan
Uh, it just depends on your, your, I guess, clientele, but, um, we needed for our community, we needed a good, off switch.
00:25:10
The Jobs Podcast
yeah
00:25:13
The Jobs Podcast
sure
00:25:18
Barry Sullivan
Like you said, um where we can do the job that needs to be done, but also ah be that ambassador to the community and really bring the police department and the people of our community together.
00:25:33
Barry Sullivan
And I'm gonna tell you our first dog did that and and his name is Indy. I mean, even after he retired, he, he, uh, Fox news did a national piece on him. CBS did the heart of America national piece on him.
00:25:46
Barry Sullivan
And then, uh, the Dr. Phil show did something on him. I mean, we really made a big impact for such a small town with, with this dog.
00:25:50
The Jobs Podcast
yeah
00:25:54
Barry Sullivan
And, um, uh, it was just, it was just an amazing experience. And, uh, you know, that's what, I've seen it, you know, working in my 10 years law enforcement, I'd seen canines, I'd called for canines.
00:26:08
Barry Sullivan
And I just thought, man, you know, not there's nothing else out there that will love you more than it loves itself like a dog.
00:26:15
The Jobs Podcast
yeah
00:26:16
Barry Sullivan
And, uh, you know, both my partners, my first one that just retired Indian, my current partner, I know, heaven forbid, this never happens, but I know uh, that dog would lay his life down without even thinking about it to save mine or save one of my partners.
00:26:32
Barry Sullivan
So it's just a bond that you just, it's, it's an unbelievable bond that most people will never understand or even can get to experience. And, uh, I hope people in law enforcement know what a force multiplier a canine is and it just how amazing it is to have a canine program.
00:26:51
The Jobs Podcast
When I was a kid growing up in the seventies and eighties, the Rottweiler and the Doberman were kind of slowly being phased out. It seems like everyone was using the German Shepherd. Now it seems like the Belgian Malinois is the choice for most ah canine dogs. Is that correct?
00:27:09
Barry Sullivan
Yeah. You know, a lot of people use the Belgian Malinois. They're bulletproof dogs. They're super intelligent. I haven't had Malinois. um My first dog was a a German Shepherd.
00:27:18
The Jobs Podcast
Okay.
00:27:22
Barry Sullivan
ah My current partner, Odin, he's a Dutch Shepherd.
00:27:26
The Jobs Podcast
Okay.
00:27:26
Barry Sullivan
he's So he's got the he's got the mentality of but of a Belgian Malinois. He's just a little more crazy.
00:27:32
The Jobs Podcast
Oh, geez.
00:27:32
Barry Sullivan
I'm
00:27:33
The Jobs Podcast
More crazy?
00:27:34
Barry Sullivan
Oh, brother, I wish I would have stayed with a German Shepherd.
00:27:38
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:27:38
Barry Sullivan
yeah You know, the German Shepherd's a little bit more slow or methodical. They think more. And ah Belgian Malinois are just their fur missiles, brother. I mean, they they are hardworking animals.
00:27:48
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:27:51
Barry Sullivan
Actually, when I went to go get this new dog, my second dog, um i I actually went out to do selection. And I was going out there with the intention to pick a Belgian Malinois. Uh, because I had, I had my first partner is a German shepherd.
00:28:04
Barry Sullivan
So i was like, man, I'm going to, I think I'm going go with the Belgian Malinois this time. And we, we demoed probably nine, eight, nine different dogs. And at the end of the day, I'd fallen in love with this Dutch shepherd that I i ultimately have now as a partner.
00:28:17
Barry Sullivan
And, uh, you know, that's just the way it felt, you know, it was between him and the Belgian and I ended up picking this Dutch. And we've been 100 miles an hour since. So it it really just depends. I mean, it depends on the handler. It depends on the personality of the dog and, you know, what is it that you're needing on patrol and in the community. So.
00:28:37
The Jobs Podcast
the The breeding of these dogs, I'm sure that there are a handful of breeders that are breeding an extremely high drive, ah you know aggressive type, yeah not not pet quality, for lack of a better term.
00:28:52
The Jobs Podcast
um When you're looking strictly for law enforcement, um I can only imagine it's on even a higher level with the military when you're not dealing with anything but military and then you know foreign enemies, I guess, for lack of a better term. but do you Do you get to be involved in that process very much, or is it just kind of a, we're going to go and look at this small catalog of dogs, find one that fits us and what we're looking for, and then you bring them home and start the training, or how does that kind of play out?
00:29:22
Barry Sullivan
Yeah. So, um, yeah. but So my first dog, we, we went to a vendor, specific vendor and, um, you know, they were such a small agency where I'm at now that we, we don't get green dogs and train them ourselves.
00:29:39
Barry Sullivan
We expect the vendor to have them pretty much pre-trained and ready for handler training by the time we get out there.
00:29:41
The Jobs Podcast
Oh.
00:29:48
The Jobs Podcast
What does that include?
00:29:48
Barry Sullivan
Excuse me.
00:29:49
The Jobs Podcast
and What does that include pre-trained? Is that just like basic obedience or do are they doing bite work already?
00:29:55
Barry Sullivan
Oh, yeah, they're they're doing bite work, and usually they're already imprinted on detection.
00:29:56
The Jobs Podcast
Okay.
00:29:59
Barry Sullivan
So, you know, if you're looking for a bomb dog, typically they already have your basic detection skills ah implanted, and they're ready to go.
00:30:00
The Jobs Podcast
Okay.
00:30:07
Barry Sullivan
So by the time we get out there, the dog knows odor.
00:30:07
The Jobs Podcast
Hmm.
00:30:11
Barry Sullivan
um He knows how to track. He knows how to do bite work. Basics, I mean, they still need a lot of obedience and a lot of training, maintenance training, because they're still very green.
00:30:21
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:30:21
Barry Sullivan
But um they've got the basics in ah so that the handler can start working based off what he's been taught. Because each handler school that I've been to have have been about seven weeks long.
00:30:32
Barry Sullivan
So we're out there for seven weeks training every day with this dog, with the vendors, trainers to get ready to to team up with this dog and go back to our city. Because but the by the time we're done training, we're driving back to the back home.
00:30:48
Barry Sullivan
ah We have to be ready to hit the streets immediately.
00:30:51
The Jobs Podcast
Oh, wow. Okay.
00:30:52
Barry Sullivan
Yeah.
00:30:53
The Jobs Podcast
What age are the dogs typically at it when you're when you're basically going live with them?
00:30:53
Barry Sullivan
So Indy, my first dog, he was a little over a year and a half, ah still very young.
00:31:04
Barry Sullivan
um So it was nice because we the longevity of him on patrol was really nice because... um He retired at about 10 years old.
00:31:15
Barry Sullivan
So we got about nine years, little over nine years out of him on patrol, which is kind of rare for a German shepherd.
00:31:21
The Jobs Podcast
Hmm.
00:31:21
Barry Sullivan
um and But we changed it this time. ah The Dutch shepherd that I picked, he was almost, he was like two and a half. So he turned three in December, for September of 24.
00:31:33
Barry Sullivan
So he was a little bit older, but also a little bit more mature and ah very determined. So i was able to see a big difference in selecting a young juvenile dog versus picking a more mature dog um that's had a few years to fill in what he needed to have. So,
00:31:55
Barry Sullivan
ah Definitely a difference in selecting dogs from the first time and the second time, ah but I wouldn't change it at all. I mean, it was a great experience.
00:32:04
The Jobs Podcast
You always hear about the intelligence of the Malinois and the a Dutch Shepherd is similar to a Malinois,
Training and Managing Canine Units
00:32:10
The Jobs Podcast
is it not?
00:32:10
Barry Sullivan
Oh, yeah. Yeah. They're just...
00:32:12
The Jobs Podcast
thought they were.
00:32:13
Barry Sullivan
They're usually bigger. ah i'm I'm a big guy.
00:32:14
The Jobs Podcast
Okay.
00:32:16
Barry Sullivan
I'm, ah you know, six foot two, six, three, 300 pounds. um I'm a big dude.
00:32:22
The Jobs Podcast
Mm-hmm.
00:32:23
Barry Sullivan
So I can't have this little bitty... you know, little dog that I'd carry around in a purse next to me. I need a dog that's kind of, and some Belgians, I mean, they can get pretty good.
00:32:34
Barry Sullivan
They can get some big ones, but but what I loved about this Dutch shepherd is sitting next to me.
00:32:35
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:32:38
Barry Sullivan
We look proportionate cause he's a big boy. ah but don't let him fool you. He, he's already jumped my six foot fence in the backyard to chase rabbits. Uh, so I mean, he's, he's, I'm going bald because of this dog, but, um,
00:32:52
Barry Sullivan
But what what you what you had mentioned earlier is ah you're absolutely right. We don't we don't just pick dogs um from you know Joe Bob out in the country.
00:33:02
Barry Sullivan
these Both of these dogs were imported from Europe.
00:33:02
The Jobs Podcast
yeah
00:33:05
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:33:06
Barry Sullivan
ah My first dog was imported from Hungary, and this and my new partner was imported from Holland. And they have really strict ah working line breeds out there that are specifically bred and trained for, like what you said, military, law enforcement.
00:33:22
Barry Sullivan
They are strong working breeds. and And I don't think most people realize that these aren't your pets. These guys are not the ones that you want to keep inside, let them lay on your couch. Yeah.
00:33:34
The Jobs Podcast
yeah
00:33:35
Barry Sullivan
yeah You know, they are they want to work and when they get bored, they can be just be destructive. And ah fortunately my first dog, he has freedom of the house. He, I could trust him. he had, he never was in a kennel outdoors. he He was always indoors with me, but my second dog, he's in a kennel in the backyard just because they don't get along, but um he's much more destructive than my first dog, but he's also a little bit more aggressive and a little more determined. So,
00:34:04
Barry Sullivan
um way different personalities. But yeah, definitely we don't we don't get these dogs from just random breeders. that we have to We want to see lineage. ah We're willing to pay a lot of money as an agency to to check those bloodlines and to make sure that we're getting something because at the end of the day, um these dogs need to be able to perform. They're going to save lives.
00:34:26
Barry Sullivan
And i know for a fact that but that both of my partners already have ah saved my life and they've saved ah people's lives from keeping bad guys ah from taking innocent civilians hostage, stopping them before they can do that. um It's just unbelievable. And these dogs need to have the courage and the ability to do that. and And that comes from just, you know, not intermixing and doing some of the things that people do here in the States.
00:34:56
Barry Sullivan
So,
00:34:57
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah, you can't be breeding just for looks. There's ah there's a utilitarian aspect to them that the the hip dysplasia and stuff that a lot of dogs can get.
00:35:07
Barry Sullivan
Absolutely.
00:35:07
The Jobs Podcast
ah You always hear about high-end breeding. They're always like their hips have been checked and they're great and their eyesight and all this other stuff. I mean, they really give them a complete physical, you know what you're getting.
00:35:17
Barry Sullivan
Absolutely. And we we did that as well. We brought him home, had him run through the gamut of our our veterinarian. We love him. ah He does great stuff. I mean, we we're doing x-rays and blood work and we're just really making sure that these dogs are healthy. And and honestly, they get better health care than I do.
00:35:34
Barry Sullivan
ah we so My chief, he said no holds bar. My administration, my captain is amazing. Uh, I don't have to ask to go to the vet. If they, they tell me, Hey, if you think you need to go to a vet, we don't care.
00:35:46
Barry Sullivan
Just go spend whatever you need to spend on him to make sure that he's healthy, ah that he's happy.
00:35:49
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:35:52
Barry Sullivan
And, ah you know, our administration's big on that. This, they treat my dog like an officer, if not better. So, um, I'm very fortunate that they will let me spend whatever money I and i need to, to make sure that he's happy and healthy, which is great.
00:36:08
The Jobs Podcast
I don't think I asked this, but what is there a ballpark as far as what these dogs typically cost after they've been purchased, they've been trained, at least the early stages, and you go to pick them up?
00:36:21
The Jobs Podcast
How much is invested in one of these dogs?
00:36:23
Barry Sullivan
I mean, right out the bat, you're looking at about $20,000 just to purchase to purchase the dog and then handler training. So anywhere between $20,000 to $25,000 just to get the dog.
00:36:36
Barry Sullivan
And then you're not even talking, you know, I went out to California to get my new dog. I was out there in Ventura County. ah I was out there for seven weeks, so you have to think they're paying me per diem, lodging.
00:36:47
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
00:36:48
Barry Sullivan
you know I took my squad car out there. just It's a lot of money. And then dog food, ah training ah tools, toys, food, all that, medication, vet visits.
00:36:59
Barry Sullivan
ah you know Your upfront cost is pretty heavy at the very beginning, but... Really, as long as you, you do your due diligence, you make sure your dog's healthy. You do all the preventative things that you need to do.
00:37:11
Barry Sullivan
um it goes down drastically every year after the initial first year. So as long as the dog's healthy and you're maintaining him and and doing well, and he's exercising that you're, you're not looking like very much, you mean, you have your month monthly expenses for food and maybe your, your basic stuff, but really it's not that bad once you do the initial upfront cost.
00:37:32
Barry Sullivan
Um, and especially with having a second dog, a lot of the equipment that I had from my first dog, we don't have to buy it again. Uh, we can use a lot of it, you know?
00:37:40
The Jobs Podcast
Oh, sure.
00:37:41
Barry Sullivan
So, uh, But you know i was I was doing a a demonstration for our community the other the day, like a Citizens Police Academy ah type deal. And one of the questions, I forgot the exact question that this gentleman proposed to me, but one of the things I asked was, how much money are you willing to keep you and your family safe?
00:38:02
Barry Sullivan
What's that number? but What's the amount of money ah that you will stop at to make sure that your wife and your children are safe? And he just looked at me and he goes, Well, I would spend everything I had.
00:38:14
Barry Sullivan
And I said, exactly. i don't think there's a cap on how much we would do or what we would do to keep our family safe. And our chief feels the same way. You know, spending a little money now saves an officer's life or saves a member of our community's life.
00:38:29
Barry Sullivan
Well, then every penny that we spent has been well worth it.
00:38:32
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:38:33
Barry Sullivan
you know, taking dangerous drugs off the street, the fentanyl. I mean, we go and help federal agencies. We help a lot of the task force people in our community. And um we are taking loads of drugs off the streets that very well could have killed someone in my community and where I work. So ah every penny, in my opinion, is well worth it And I think our community where I work, ah they agree with us and they're very supportive.
00:38:57
The Jobs Podcast
I don't see what you're spending as excessive at all. And when you think about what does the squad car cost, and then you got to outfit it with radios and lights and and all, you know, and then you have to pay an officer to get into it.
00:39:08
The Jobs Podcast
I think that, um you know, even 40 or $50,000 when it's all said and done to have the use of a canine officer for the next eight, nine years, that that's, I mean, that's worth it. It seems like to me.
00:39:21
Barry Sullivan
Oh, yeah. I mean, you you think you have you have an up upfront cost of buying all the equipment initially, but you got to think the longevity of that.
00:39:25
The Jobs Podcast
Sure. Mm-hmm.
00:39:28
Barry Sullivan
You're looking at I mean, the squad car I have now, it's only, you know, I think I've had it for five years and it's still running great.
00:39:35
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:39:36
Barry Sullivan
um We're going to down it and make it my backup car. So I am going to get a new one this year. But that's just because the chief wants to make sure I'm in a nice new car. ah We have the money. We have a ah crime control prevention district tax that our citizens had voted in to make sure our police department has enough funds to get the things that we need.
00:39:54
Barry Sullivan
So, um you know, we allocate those funds to make sure that our equipment's and in top condition.
00:40:00
The Jobs Podcast
yeah
00:40:00
Barry Sullivan
And, ah but, you know, really as a take home car, ah that canine vehicle goes home with me. So it's not in the, it's not in the rotation. It's not being shared.
00:40:11
Barry Sullivan
It's not running 24 hours a day, seven days a week, like some other squad cars do. um You know, longevity out of that, you're getting more bang for your buck essentially.
00:40:21
The Jobs Podcast
One thing I'm curious about when you go somewhere, if you have to, you know, Texas, it's hot in the summertime. And if you have to get out of your car, is the air conditioning still running or is there a supplemental air conditioning unit in the back for the canine?
00:40:38
Barry Sullivan
Oh, so so ah whenever we're on duty or if there's a dog in my car, it stays running the entire time.
00:40:45
The Jobs Podcast
Okay.
00:40:45
Barry Sullivan
The only time the car turns off is when we're off duty going home. and it's parked in the driveway. um But it's it's constantly running to make sure that not only is he getting air conditioning or or heating, depending on the time of the year, but um our cars are outfitted with, we use Ace Hot and Pop System, not to name drop, but they're a tried and true company that provides emergency safety systems for our police cars.
00:41:10
Barry Sullivan
i ah we My agency even paid for an extra function that goes that it has its own mobile card in the squad car. So even when I'm turned away, we've got heavy duty fans so that if it gets too hot, the back windows automatically roll down and a heavy duty fan kicks on and it actually sets off the alarm on the car, which has lights and sirens.
00:41:31
The Jobs Podcast
Oh,
00:41:32
Barry Sullivan
ah Then it pages my phone. So at any point I can look at the app on my phone to see what the vehicle's ah looking like, if it's running, if it has enough fuel, what the temperature is inside the car, how the battery is doing.
00:41:46
Barry Sullivan
And if there's anything, any kind of trouble, if it gets too hot or too cold in that car, it sets off the alarms and notifies me and it notifies my command staff that there's a problem and that I need to go out there to my car immediately.
00:41:59
Barry Sullivan
these These systems save the dog's life. And there's been so many times I've read where some of these dogs have died in a hot car and you find that their agencies didn't spend the money to get them the equipment to keep them safe.
00:42:08
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah. Yeah.
00:42:13
Barry Sullivan
And ah that just blows my mind that a police department is going to spend so much money for an incredible asset like this dog. And they're not willing to pay for the safety systems to keep them safe off while you're away from the car.
00:42:26
The Jobs Podcast
yeah
00:42:26
Barry Sullivan
um And, you know, I thank God every day ah that I have, ah you know, and that's what's so horrible in our culture now is administrations that but don't back their police officers. I have a chief, a captain, and a lieutenant that ah that's all they do is make sure I have what I need and they're willing to spend the money to keep me safe. They're willing to keep that dog safe. and I think a lot of agencies are like that where I'm at.
00:42:53
Barry Sullivan
But ah it's it it's like ah I think we pay maybe $100 a year for the service. I mean, that's that's crumbs.
00:42:59
The Jobs Podcast
Jeez. Oh, that's worth it.
00:43:01
Barry Sullivan
Yeah, I mean, that's but that's a crumb.
00:43:01
The Jobs Podcast
Absolutely.
00:43:03
Barry Sullivan
I'd pay out of my own pocket to keep this.
00:43:05
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:43:05
Barry Sullivan
And it's great because I can, as a sergeant, I still manage a patrol shift. You know, I have the collateral duty as canine, but I'm still a patrol sergeant. I'm also the sergeant over our field training program.
00:43:16
Barry Sullivan
yeah. There's times I have to go into the office or I have to go to a meeting or I'm on a call for service because I'm getting called as a supervisor there and my dog's out in my car and I need that peace of mind to know out here in this Texas heat that my dog is comfortable and that if something happens, ah we're going to we're going to get onto it way before that dog's ever uncomfortable.
00:43:37
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah. How many hours of training? Let's shift gears for just a second and talk about your day-to-day interaction with your dog. You wake up, you know, when we have a dog, we wake up.
00:43:48
The Jobs Podcast
All right, it's time to go out for a potty break. Go outside. Do you play for a little bit before you come in and get ready for a shift? How do you keep the dog um You know, cause you've got high drive dogs. There's gotta be an outlet for them during your workday.
00:44:03
The Jobs Podcast
How does that play out?
00:44:03
Barry Sullivan
Oh yeah.
00:44:04
The Jobs Podcast
And then how does the training factor into that? Or are they tied in together?
00:44:08
Barry Sullivan
Well, it's a little bit of both. I mean, uh, every day, like today is my day off. So right now he's out in his kennel. I can see him on my camera right now. He's laying on his, uh, bed. He has a patio, uh,
00:44:22
Barry Sullivan
it's kind of hard to describe, but he actually has his own house that our community built for him.
00:44:27
The Jobs Podcast
Oh, nice.
00:44:27
Barry Sullivan
um Yeah. He's got a patio, a patio and an indoor area that's air conditioned and heated. He's got wifi. We've got cameras out there. um He's got a wifi driven fan.
00:44:39
Barry Sullivan
um so
00:44:40
The Jobs Podcast
Does he want a roommate? I mean, I think he's...
00:44:42
Barry Sullivan
listen, brother, I thought about putting an Airbnb on and you come stay with him and I'll, you know, you'll get a discount, but he's got an unbelievable setup to keep him safe out there.
00:44:48
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:44:51
The Jobs Podcast
Very cool.
00:44:51
Barry Sullivan
But like right now, he's just hanging out on his patio. He's sleeping. He's relaxing. Just like I'm trying to relax on my day off. He, we, I go out there and I, I throw the ball and play with him.
00:44:57
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:44:59
Barry Sullivan
But honestly, he's just like you and I on our days off. He wants to chill out and relax because um he gets super excited to go to work and,
00:45:04
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah. Hmm.
00:45:08
Barry Sullivan
You wake up early in the morning. i go out there. I give him some breakfast and let him go to the bathroom. And then we get geared up. He sees me in uniform. He knows what's happening. And then we go to work. and And when we do have downtime, I like to but We train every week. So every week we meet with agencies from all over the Metroplex. sure We're looking at anywhere between 12 to 16 dogs in our training group.
00:45:31
Barry Sullivan
And we meet to train on the disciplines that our dogs are trained on, narcotics, tracking, apprehension. And every week is a new new thing that we work on. But we do live scenario training.
00:45:44
Barry Sullivan
We do, you know, drug disciplines and tracking. And every week we get together and we train for about six hours together and really maintain the dog's proficiency. But oh something that I like to do, especially on slower days on patrol, i like to take my team, ah my patrol officers that are on my shift and even the officers from the shift of the ah agency nearby, because we work so closely with them.
00:46:11
Barry Sullivan
i'll I'll call them over and tell them to meet me at a certain spot and we'll do a training track together or we'll do some practice mock felony traffic stops on how to do a felony traffic stop with canine, how to do it without.
00:46:25
Barry Sullivan
I mean, just like us as police officers, me and my team, we need to stay proficient in training. And that's no different for these dogs. And a lot of it's just fun for them. yeah. If I'm bored driving around and I want to get the dog out of the car, I let him out to go the bathroom all the time and let him run around or throw the toy with him for a little bit. But that dog is the most happy when we're putting him to work.
00:46:47
Barry Sullivan
And my guys know they'll go out and lay a track and call me over say, hey, laid a track. You want to come over and do it? And so we'll go over and run a track as a team. and And it's just, it's a great way to get the dog out, stretch his legs, give him something to do.
00:46:59
Barry Sullivan
But also it's great residual training for my patrol team and the patrol teams the agencies nearby so that they know what to do on an actual scenario, on an actual deployment.
00:47:12
The Jobs Podcast
When you get together with these other units that have multiple dogs, I think you said you had 16 or 18 at once. Is that the number I heard?
00:47:18
Barry Sullivan
Yeah, about 12 to 16 if everybody shows up.
00:47:20
The Jobs Podcast
Okay. How does, how do these dogs get along with each other? Do you need to keep them kind of at a ah safe distance apart? Or do you find because they're so intense, a lot of times they get a little, ah get a little sideways.
00:47:33
Barry Sullivan
Oh, yeah.
00:47:35
Barry Sullivan
Yeah, they a lot of I mean, they're all alpha dogs. They're all like us.
00:47:38
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah. Right.
00:47:39
Barry Sullivan
They got that type A personality.
00:47:39
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:47:41
Barry Sullivan
So um a lot of them don't intermingle. We don't we do times we'll get our dogs out and do ah group obedience. And what does that look like? That's. We get our dogs out, we put them their muzzles on, and we do obedience together where we're doing it and in a line, almost like line dancing, but with our dogs.
00:47:59
The Jobs Podcast
Okay.
00:48:01
Barry Sullivan
And we we we walk the dogs in between each other, and we make any correction if the dog is dog aggressive. So if they lunge at another dog or they do something, they're corrected off of that to make sure they understand is, no, no, no.
00:48:13
Barry Sullivan
You focus on the task that I'm giving you, nothing else matters right now.
00:48:15
The Jobs Podcast
Okay.
00:48:17
Barry Sullivan
And a lot of these dogs do phenomenal. they They leave each other alone. They know that they're working. They know what their job is. But my my first dog was excellent. He could care less. Another dog could lay right next to him and he wouldn't touch him.
00:48:30
Barry Sullivan
My new dog is a little dog aggressive. And that's something we're still working on. But it's not it's not bad to the point where... it concerns me. i just know that I have to keep that in the back of my mind.
00:48:43
Barry Sullivan
Uh, when we're training is to make sure I address it if I see it first. And, um, but just like any one of us, we may not always like people that we work with or, or that we're around, you know, and they're the same way, but, um,
00:48:55
The Jobs Podcast
No, I love everybody I work with. I just want to make that abundantly clear.
00:49:00
Barry Sullivan
yeah. Yeah. Whoever's listening, I love you guys. And yeah, but it's, um, you know, they, they're just like us.
00:49:02
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:49:06
Barry Sullivan
They have, these amazing personalities and sometimes they can be cranky. ah You know, these dogs have bad days just like we do.
00:49:11
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:49:14
Barry Sullivan
You know, one day your dog may be a rock star out there and the next he's like, man, I'm not having it today.
00:49:21
The Jobs Podcast
You had mentioned something that made me think about the gear that they wear. You mentioned a muzzle. do Do a lot of departments that have canine units, I mean, I'm sure they have a collar, but do they have any kind of like a harness that maybe is a Kevlar or a bulletproof harness or any kind of armor protection that they can use?
00:49:39
The Jobs Podcast
Or is unfortunately just the reality of the job that they got a collar and that's it?
00:49:44
Barry Sullivan
Oh, no. We have so much equipment.
00:49:47
The Jobs Podcast
Really?
00:49:47
Barry Sullivan
um Oh, yeah. we We have so much equipment. And if you think about it, um these dogs, too, they learn by that equipment. So what do I mean by that? He has different collars and different harnesses that I put on him.
00:50:01
Barry Sullivan
And when you do that enough in training, when you're out in the real world, when you put, like when I put his tracking harness on him, he knows exactly what he's going to do.
00:50:10
The Jobs Podcast
Ah, okay.
00:50:10
Barry Sullivan
there's So when I put his tracking harness, he comes out with his nose to the ground, ready to do what he knows what he needs to do.
00:50:12
The Jobs Podcast
Hmm.
00:50:16
Barry Sullivan
ah It's unbelievable how smart these animals are. um i have two different kinds of Kevlar vests um that he wears. We actually deploy with our SWAT team. My first dog and the second dog, we both deploy with our SWAT team.
00:50:30
Barry Sullivan
So they both get, um both my dogs have had Kevlar, fortunately, because of how expensive they are. there's agency, there's a, a, a company it's called, it's a nonprofit. It's called vested, vested interests for canines.
00:50:45
Barry Sullivan
And it's unbelievable. They've provided both my first and my second dog ah with Kevlar ah for them. So then when we're out on SWAT deployments or on maybe a building search with a violent individual, you know, these dogs are protected.
00:50:58
Barry Sullivan
Their bodies are protected from both stab, you know, your, your stabbing instruments and your firearms. So, ah We have all kinds of equipment. I have ah goggles for him.
00:51:09
Barry Sullivan
I have ear protection. ah We have different collars for different deployments, tracking lines, different leads, like ah shortly six foot leads, waist leads, traffic leads, anything that we need depending on the type of deployment that we're going to go to.
00:51:26
Barry Sullivan
um And that's, you know, that's obviously because we have a dual purpose dog. So, you know, if you have a single purpose narcotics dog, there's a lot of things that you may not need because all you're doing is detection. But when you have a dual purpose dog that's doing both tracking and apprehension work and and we're deploying with the SWAT team,
00:51:45
Barry Sullivan
You've got to have all that equipment ready for whatever it is that you're trying to do. And it also helps the dog know what he's about to go do. And it's just, it's unbelievable how smart they are.
00:51:55
The Jobs Podcast
that company that you just mentioned that provides those vests. Can you say their name again? I want to, I want to make sure that they're out there.
00:52:02
Barry Sullivan
Yeah, it's a vested interest for canines. They are unbelievable.
00:52:05
The Jobs Podcast
Okay.
00:52:07
Barry Sullivan
They supply thousands of body armor at no cost to these agencies um all over the United States. um You know, we're fortunate that we have an administration or a town that will spend money on us.
00:52:21
Barry Sullivan
But, I mean, look at some of these departments that don't have very much money or a lot of funding.
00:52:25
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:52:26
Barry Sullivan
And they provide these dogs with Kevlar so that the police departments don't have to do it or spend that much money on on the dog. and Or they just don't have it. And so it's unbelievable how the community can come out and and help.
00:52:40
Barry Sullivan
And ah they you know they take donations um from people all over the the country that donate to their their cause. And that's why they can... They can outfit these dogs with, I mean, the Kevlar that I wear is not always stab resistant. It's but's bullet resistant. But I mean, these dogs get both stab and bulletproof vests. And ah it's unbelievable. it saves dogs' lives every year.
00:53:05
The Jobs Podcast
When you are, is there a certain gender that most canine dogs are? Do you typically see most are male or female or does it really matter?
00:53:13
Barry Sullivan
Yeah, the most most of the ones I see are male. we We did have, at one point, we did have a female in the group, um and she was mean. I mean, I'd almost say I've seen some female dogs that are way meaner than, yeah, hey they tend to be more protective of their handlers.
00:53:25
The Jobs Podcast
There's a joke there, but. Oh. Hmm.
00:53:30
Barry Sullivan
They're a little bit more jealous, I think.
00:53:30
The Jobs Podcast
oh
00:53:32
Barry Sullivan
But ah yeah most of the time, because ah most of the police dogs that that I'm around, they they stay intact. ah They're not neutered. And so as you can imagine with a female dog not being neutered, ah that could cause a problem once a month, especially when you're training with a bunch of male dogs.
00:53:43
The Jobs Podcast
Oh. Yeah. Sure.
00:53:48
The Jobs Podcast
yeah
00:53:50
The Jobs Podcast
sure
00:53:50
Barry Sullivan
And it could be definitely a challenge. ah It's not that it doesn't happen. I've seen some amazing police dogs that were female dogs that um one of which was retired in in and passed recently just from you know old age. And it it finally which you know had to be put to rest. But ah that dog was unbelievable. And I don't think it makes a big difference.
00:54:14
Barry Sullivan
I think both male and female are great police dogs, but you do definitely see a difference in the two. And and sometimes it's a little bit easier to have a male dog.
00:54:23
The Jobs Podcast
What types of dog toys, and I'm going write this down ah because I've had dogs in the past, and it's amazing what even like my parents had weenie dogs when I was a kid, and they're good dogs, and they're good for if you have rodents, but as far as home defense, they're kind of worthless.
00:54:40
The Jobs Podcast
But they could go through, you could buy a toy that supposedly was heavy duty or for a tough chewer, and in three days, it's gone or it's destroyed.
00:54:40
Barry Sullivan
Oh,
00:54:49
The Jobs Podcast
I can only imagine the number of toys that you go through, but is there a certain type and a certain brand that you found lasts well with your type of dog?
00:54:49
Barry Sullivan
oh yeah.
00:54:58
Barry Sullivan
Oh, yeah. i there's So I have for the house, you know, you can't leave toys out for these type of dogs because you don't want them to self-reward ah bad behavior. So a lot of times they don't get a toy just to have it.
00:55:08
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:55:10
Barry Sullivan
ah you When you spend time with them and giving them a job or you're just playing with them, that's when they get that toy. But um you're absolutely right. These dogs are heavy chewers. They're bite dogs. That's what they're trained to do.
00:55:20
The Jobs Podcast
Okay.
00:55:21
Barry Sullivan
um There's a company, it's called Go Nuts, but it's spelled like G-O-U-G-H-O. in UTS, I think.
00:55:29
The Jobs Podcast
okay
00:55:30
Barry Sullivan
um If you Google it, I think it'll pop up, but I can't remember it exactly. But... um They guarantee an indestructible toy, and if somehow your dog does manage to tear it any, you can send it back and they replace it for free.
00:55:44
The Jobs Podcast
wow
00:55:44
Barry Sullivan
I've got several of their they're toys that I use as reward toys for, like, ah narcotics detection. You know, when the dog finds ah the hidden target odor, ah we reward that by throwing a toy them.
00:55:57
Barry Sullivan
um I use, obviously, a Kong toy that works really well, but the Go-Nuts is almost indestructible for a dog that is just... used to tearing up toys. And something that I like to use here at the house on our days off just to play in the backyard, it's a, maybe you've heard of it. It's called the Jolly Ball.
00:56:15
Barry Sullivan
They use them for horses,
00:56:16
The Jobs Podcast
I've heard of that. Yeah.
00:56:18
Barry Sullivan
So I went to tractor supply down the road and got a jolly ball that's made for a horse. It's a huge ball. It's got a handle on it, but it's super durable because it's made for a horse, you know, to chew on and play with. So I have that out there with him now and that thing's lasted.
00:56:34
Barry Sullivan
It lasted through my first dog and it's now it's on my second dog.
00:56:37
The Jobs Podcast
Oh, wow.
00:56:37
Barry Sullivan
and they And they love it. I mean, and it's it's got tooth marks in it, but it still hasn't been destroyed. It's lasted a long time. So those are my two go-tos, Kong, that Go Nuts, and then that Jolly Ball.
00:56:49
Barry Sullivan
Those are tried and true in my profession. That's just my personal opinion. But...
00:56:54
The Jobs Podcast
Have you ever spent time in a bite suit on the receiving end of, is that part of your training?
00:56:57
Barry Sullivan
oh Man, I'll tell you what, i you know, yes, getting in the bite suit, when you first get a dog, ah you know, you're up in, like when I was out in California recently, I remembered how fortunate we are because a lot of canine groups, we we have to take turns getting in the bite suit for different scenarios.
00:57:16
Barry Sullivan
So that other handlers can take the dogs. But we, in our group, we actually are very fortunate. Each agency provides a trained decoy. He's not a handler. um They go to decoy school to learn because I don't think people realize, but when you get into that bite suit, those people, those decoys are trained to help work on a dog's bite.
00:57:25
The Jobs Podcast
Mm-hmm.
00:57:37
Barry Sullivan
And and their aggression and the control and ah a bad decoy can hurt a dog and really go backwards in your training. So we don't like to just throw anybody in that suit unless they're like the new officer on patrol and we just want to really scare them.
00:57:53
Barry Sullivan
And I've done that a hundred times.
00:57:54
The Jobs Podcast
Oh, that sounds great. Oh, yeah. I would love to see that.
00:57:57
Barry Sullivan
Oh, it's, it's classic, man. But, ah but no, we actually have trained decoys. So honestly, ah the only time I really get in a suit is, is if a decoy can't make it. Or ah like I said, we were at getting a new dog.
00:58:11
Barry Sullivan
And those seven weeks I was out in California here ah with my first dog, we were having to decoy for each other every day for seven weeks. And I just remembered, i was like, holy cow, this just,
00:58:23
Barry Sullivan
adds that amount of respect that I have for the decoys that come out and train with us every week and are so dedicated to coming out and helping our teams ah get better. And they take bite after bite because you still feel it in that bite suit. ah You still feel the pinching and the pressure and it hurts.
00:58:39
The Jobs Podcast
Really? Okay.
00:58:40
Barry Sullivan
It it doesn't. Yeah, it does not feel good. You're not. It's just keeping you from getting punctures, essentially. But um you see some of these guys arms are all bruised up because, you know, they're they're putting their own personal safety aside to
00:58:45
The Jobs Podcast
okay
00:58:52
Barry Sullivan
to train our partners and to make sure that we're doing, you know, our dogs are, are are progressing the way they need to be. And we we have a guy, I'll give him a little shout out. His name's Michael Savato. He works for a an agency nearby, never been a dog handler, but that guy comes out and takes bites from 10, 12 dogs in a row.
00:59:10
Barry Sullivan
And he doesn't blink an I don't know what this guy has to be like, superhuman, but he is, he is, i could say this genuinely, he is progressed our dogs.
00:59:21
Barry Sullivan
He, when he gets up there, we walk up with our dog and we're working on bite work and we'll walk up. He knows what our dog needs. He knows what each individual dog needs to make them stronger.
00:59:32
Barry Sullivan
And he applies it so that when we're training, we're getting the most out of training. And it's, it's just unbelievable to have people like him that come out there and dedicated to put their bodies on the line ah to make our dogs better. So it's unbelievable. And it's it's definitely not fun.
00:59:50
Barry Sullivan
It's not fun getting bite suit.
00:59:52
The Jobs Podcast
Well, now, before you said all that, I, in my head, I thought, I think it would be kind of cool to be in one of those bite suits, but I think I've changed my mind after hearing what you just said. i didn't realize you would feel, you know, that much.
01:00:00
Barry Sullivan
It's Oh, yeah. Oh, you'll feel the pinch. You feel every bit of it. ah And it's always funny. We'll get new recruits that come in and they'll say, oh, um I want to get in the suit. I want to get in the suit. And like, all right, let's go out there and get in there.
01:00:15
Barry Sullivan
So we'll get them in the suit. And you see there you see as soon as that dog gets on the elbow or on the if you ever been pinched on the back of the arm, you know, by mom or dad, they pinch you.
01:00:20
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
01:00:23
The Jobs Podcast
o Yeah, yeah.
01:00:25
Barry Sullivan
Now imagine a dog's mouth back there pinching the heck out you with their canines.
01:00:28
The Jobs Podcast
No, thanks.
01:00:28
Barry Sullivan
It does not feel good. yeah So it's fun to see their faces. it's They're not so excited about getting in it a second time. That's for sure.
01:00:37
The Jobs Podcast
Is there big competition with people wanting to be canines? Or do you find that the folks that it's from the beginning of their law enforcement career is like, no, I want to do canine?
01:00:50
The Jobs Podcast
Or do you find people slowly kind of graduate, graduate towards it or move towards it? What lane do you finally get most of your crew, your recruits from for canine?
01:01:00
Barry Sullivan
Man, you know, I think back, you know, 10 or 15 years ago, i think it was a more popular thing. I think people wanted to do it. But honestly, now I don't see, you know, i train with really big agencies in the Metroplex, Dallas, Fort Worth Metroplex.
01:01:15
Barry Sullivan
And I won't name them specifically on this topic because I don't want to, I don't want it to come off as disrespectful. But when you have agencies that are so big that just one of their patrol shifts for a night has more officers than my entire department.
01:01:29
Barry Sullivan
And you maybe have one or two people put in for an open canine spot. um Law enforcement has changed a lot from when I got started. And the thing about canine is, is it's not a nine to five job.
01:01:44
Barry Sullivan
You
01:01:47
Barry Sullivan
You're not when you go home for the end of your shift, you're not done being canine. You have a dog that you're responsible for. You do training at home in your backyard on your days off by doing obedience, things like that. It's it's a 24 hour a day job.
01:02:00
Barry Sullivan
And um you have to understand that once you get that dog for the next 10 years or until the dog after the even after the dog retires, you have a responsibility to take care of that animal.
01:02:12
Barry Sullivan
So. I think people don't quite understand ah the dedication it takes to be a handler and the training that goes behind it. um And so it's not ah it's not a very
01:02:26
Barry Sullivan
one of two things. One, it's not a very sought out thing by younger officers because they're, I guess, maybe a little nervous about it, but you don't see a lot of people giving it up. True handlers that get in that spot, they love it.
01:02:39
Barry Sullivan
I mean, they have a ah passion for it and so they don't want to give up their spot. So, um, Really, it takes us a special kind of person to do it.
01:02:51
Barry Sullivan
And ah a lot of people, they get nervous. They get nervous around dogs. ah I can't tell you, i love bringing my dog into the PD. And I'm fortunate that a lot of people in my shift ah love the dog and are not scared to be around it. But I mean, you do have some officers that are just, uh-uh, they don't want be around them. be They're nervous around the dog.
01:03:09
Barry Sullivan
And obviously, you can't have that mentality if you want to be a handler. So don't know if...
01:03:13
The Jobs Podcast
Cat people, right?
01:03:15
Barry Sullivan
Yeah, yeah. And I don't know if that answered your question or not. I'm i'm being a chatty Kathy, but um it it does take um a lot of work.
01:03:18
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah, I did. no
01:03:23
Barry Sullivan
And it's not just like, oh, put them on the end of the leash and let them go to work. it's It's a team effort. It's 110% from me and 110% from that dog. And ah you have to understand, you know, going on vacation with your family,
01:03:37
Barry Sullivan
ah taken off for the weekend to go somewhere or do something, this dog is attached to your hip. You're responsible for him 24 hours a day, seven days a week. It doesn't end at the end of your shift. You're still responsible. So it's a lot of dedication, a lot of work, but it's just, it's so rewarding.
01:03:53
The Jobs Podcast
Something that you just mentioned right there made me think of a question you talked about if you go on vacation with your family. Now, if you have a spouse or you have kids, this is a decision in your career that is going to affect every member of your family. And so it's not, we can't just drop everything and go away for the weekend.
01:04:12
The Jobs Podcast
The dog goes with us.
01:04:14
Barry Sullivan
Absolutely. My first partner, we went out to Destin Beach.
01:04:15
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
01:04:18
Barry Sullivan
I usually have my mom. My mom's a local, so I don't like to board my dogs. That's just a personal preference for me. I don't like to board these animals ah because they are working dogs and I get nervous about how they'll react when being boarded.
01:04:33
Barry Sullivan
And also, too, I don't know if other people vaccinate their animals appropriately. And I just I don't want my dog getting sick from someone that may be a little bit less responsible. But Uh, I typically will have my mom come house sit and she would take care of ah the dogs for me.
01:04:50
Barry Sullivan
Uh, but there was a time where we were going to go to Destin with another family on, we rented a beach house and, uh, my mom was not able to come over. She was not feeling well and she couldn't house sit. So here I was, it was like, do I board this dog or do I take him with me?
01:05:04
Barry Sullivan
So my first dog got to go to Destin beach with us. He stayed at the, our Airbnb. The hosts of their Airbnb were amazing. They welcomed us with open arms and, And I actually got to take him to the beach for the very first time in his life.
01:05:18
Barry Sullivan
And it it went really well. But i amm you have to make those arrangements and then prepare if those arrangements don't go through. So it's a lot more planning and and things that you have to do.
01:05:29
Barry Sullivan
ah when my my we just had a baby back in August. and um And so there was a time where we were staying at the hospital. And ah fortunately, I have this amazing network of canine handlers that we train with.
01:05:44
Barry Sullivan
And they took turns coming over to the house to let him out and and feed him and make sure he had water and and just took care of him, played with him a little bit. ah They were used to him because they knew him and he knew them. So that helped us out greatly.
01:05:56
Barry Sullivan
But like we talked about at the very beginning of this this podcast, this was um law enforcement networking. You know, you build your family in law enforcement and, and these people, we take care of each other.
01:06:03
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
01:06:06
Barry Sullivan
You know, we were there when you need us 24 hours a day. And, and these guys, it you know, my canine family, they're my brothers. And, ah We take care of each other. We take care of each other's dogs.
01:06:17
Barry Sullivan
and And that's a huge that's a huge benefit of of this canine family. So it is a lot of work. it It's 24 hours a day.
Retirement of Police Dogs and Their Life After Service
01:06:26
The Jobs Podcast
To continue with the theme of basically living with a dog, a canine officer like that, when a dog's career comes to an end, if if they have you know a ah health issue or something, how does that transition into, i don't know if civilian life is the right term, but do they do they live with you or until they just naturally pass away or have to be put down, unfortunately? Or how does that retirement part kind of play out?
01:06:53
Barry Sullivan
Yeah, um we got super lucky. My first partner, Indy, he's here right now. He's looking at me. He's watching me the while we talk. ah From the very beginning, he's always been an indoor dog. So his transition was actually very well. and And he retired just...
01:07:09
Barry Sullivan
from it was my own decision. Some dogs have to be retired because of medical issues or things like that. i just came I just knew that he was becoming more fatigued and that I wanted him to be able to retire and live out his life in retirement as a healthy dog and and be happy.
01:07:28
Barry Sullivan
And so I sat down and thought, hey when would be a good time? When would be a good age? I had that conversation with my chief, and the only thing my chief said back to me was, You tell me when you're ready to retire that dog and when you want another one and I'll have the money to do it.
01:07:43
Barry Sullivan
There was no, well, can we get another year? you know, it was a you make the decision when you want that dog to be retired and you tell us. And so that was so empowering for me because he's turning 11. His birthday is on 420.
01:07:58
Barry Sullivan
If you know anything about 420, that's hilarious. A drug dog ah birthday on 420.
01:08:01
The Jobs Podcast
I do. Yes, I do.
01:08:02
Barry Sullivan
Yeah.
01:08:03
The Jobs Podcast
Yep.
01:08:03
Barry Sullivan
ah But he he retired at 10 years old and, you you know, living he's just a normal dog now. He acts like a normal dog. he yeah Obviously, he's a little more amped up than most, ah you know, couch surfing ah personal dogs. But found himself...
01:08:20
Barry Sullivan
he found himself he actually got a little depressed ah going into retirement, seeing me go to work with a new dog. ah That was a very odd ah thing for me to encounter.
01:08:31
Barry Sullivan
But what was great was, is we had our first baby and he is, he has shifted from being ah the community protector to being the home protector. He follows this baby everywhere. He lays next to the baby. It's like, it's his job as a personal security guard for this baby.
01:08:48
Barry Sullivan
And so it's almost given him another purpose. And, And it's really helped out our dynamic here with having him here. But, you know, he's he's retired. He, you know, lays on the couch.
01:08:58
Barry Sullivan
He lays with the baby. He follows me around the house. He's a Velcro dog, but ah he's transitioned very well. But, you know, there's a lot of canines that don't get that luxury. You know, they're either killed in line of duty or they get cancer.
01:09:07
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
01:09:10
Barry Sullivan
a lot of these working dogs get cancer or German Shepherds, they get hep dysplasia. We talked about that earlier. And, Uh, fortunately, ah you know, he's, he gets to live a healthy retirement and, uh, he, so far he's, he's doing great.
01:09:26
The Jobs Podcast
When you have a retired dog that if they're a drug sniffing dog and you're walking through Lowe's, do they have ever hit on somebody or something and you just kind of chuckle and shake your head and walk off? Or how do how do you kind of handle that part it? It's like, hey, buddy, we're not working right now.
01:09:42
Barry Sullivan
Yeah, you know, they they're constantly sniffing. I took him to Home Depot the other day, and he was just all antsy because he was just super excited to get out of the house. And I just I started telling him I gave him a search command and we just started searching different parts Home Depot.
01:09:57
Barry Sullivan
He didn't find anything, thankfully, but it was nice to see that he wanted to work and that he was looking for it.
01:10:02
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
01:10:02
Barry Sullivan
And I will tell you story. ah we were ah when he was actually an active of duty and another. We used to live in a different town that we do now. And that we were out for a walk and I saw a change of behavior.
01:10:14
Barry Sullivan
And without any direction, he went straight for a car that was parked on the street. And he started sniffing the car, went around the car, went around the car. He was obviously an odor and then went to the back passenger door and went into an alert.
01:10:26
Barry Sullivan
And I was like, Oh my goodness. I think, I think there's drugs that are in this car. So I pulled him off of the car. We walked down the street and I called ah the local canine handler that works for that city that I'm friends with.
01:10:41
Barry Sullivan
And I said, Hey, are you on duty? And he's like, yeah. I said, hey, ah I'm over here on this street. And I was walking by and my dog had a change of behavior and alerted on this this vehicle down here on the street. And he goes, is it in front of this address?
01:10:52
Barry Sullivan
was like, yeah, it is. And he goes, well, we they are suspected drug dealers. We've been watching that house ah all the time.
01:10:58
The Jobs Podcast
Good.
01:10:58
Barry Sullivan
We watch
Canine Behavior and Detection Skills
01:10:59
Barry Sullivan
it all the time. And lo and behold, two days later, they had a traffic stop on the guy and he was arrested for a little over five grams of methamphetamine. And I was like, well, I guess that answers the question here, you know.
01:11:08
The Jobs Podcast
yeah
01:11:12
Barry Sullivan
But ah they're always working, you know, they can't turn it off.
01:11:16
The Jobs Podcast
When you say change of behavior, I know you could describe your dog all day long, but what what is it? I mean, you're cued into the things that just somebody walking by might not notice.
01:11:28
The Jobs Podcast
But when you see it, when you say a change in behavior like there' they've gone into work mode now, what do you typically see out of your dog?
01:11:34
Barry Sullivan
Oh, yeah. Yeah, so, you know, obviously you have the dog, you just run on the mill, tongue hanging out, just having a good old time. But you'll notice they'll shut their mouth and they'll they have this just these distinct mannerisms about themselves, about their breathing, the way that they breathe, the way that their body shifts.
01:11:53
Barry Sullivan
um We as handlers, when we we're working with these dogs, we know what it looks like when our dog gets into target odor. You know, when they're searching, ah that's why, you know, the Supreme Court backs are the detection dogs so well, because um these dogs are trained to go into what we call a final alert to sit down.
01:12:14
Barry Sullivan
and stare Some are an aggressive alert. Most people like a passive alert because aggressive alert, you know, biting or scratching could really ruin people's cars or or property.
01:12:24
The Jobs Podcast
yeah you
01:12:24
Barry Sullivan
ah But, you know, the the Supreme Court says that a dog doesn't even have to go into a final alert. ah All the handler has to be able to do is describe a distinct change of behavior.
01:12:35
Barry Sullivan
We know what our partners look like. I know what my dog looks like when he's searching for drugs. I know what my dog looks like when we're searching for a man and we're tracking. And those are those things that are that's what's going to save my life.
01:12:49
Barry Sullivan
You know, we're out in the middle of the woods out in the middle of nowhere at one o'clock in the morning searching for an armed robbery suspect. I need to know what my dog looks like
Canine Abilities vs. Technology
01:12:57
Barry Sullivan
when he's an odor of a suspect, because When they show those changes of behavior, that means that we're close.
01:13:04
Barry Sullivan
And if you can imagine, if we're out in the middle of the woods searching for a suspect, who do you think has the advantage, the suspect or us?
01:13:11
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah. Yeah. yeah
01:13:13
Barry Sullivan
And it's the suspect. We don't know where he is, but he can hear and possibly see us coming. So I have to pick up on that dog's behavior when I know that he's an odor, whether be drugs or a bad guy that we're looking for, because that dog is going to tell me if that suspect is close by and that's going to give me the seconds I need or my team needs.
01:13:34
Barry Sullivan
ah to save it, to save our lives or to keep us from getting ambushed and to find the suspect. and ah And it's so important. That's why these relationships, you know, we're were together 24 hours a day. We're in the car all day together.
01:13:47
Barry Sullivan
i know what my dog does. I know his behavior. I know... what he likes, what he doesn't like. I know what he looks like when he smells the target odor. ah know what' and know what he does when he finds a suspect hiding behind a door.
01:13:59
Barry Sullivan
i know everything about that dog. And it's so important because that is what's going to save my life. It's going to save his life. It's going to save my partner's lives, the cops that I'm out searching with. And it's just super important. it's There's just so much ah into what we do with these dogs that we have to know their personalities because it will save our lives.
01:14:21
The Jobs Podcast
You know, as I hear you talk, I'm thinking there's a lot has changed in, and I know in the fire service, there's a lot has changed as far as the equipment that we use, the technology, the computers and and drones and all that kind of stuff. And I know in law enforcement over the last 20, 30, 40 years, there's been so much technology and and products that have come into law enforcement.
01:14:43
The Jobs Podcast
But at the at the root of it, on the fire service, you're still putting the water the wet stuff on the red stuff, so to speak. And in law enforcement, especially with canine, you can have all the technology in the world, but it's still a man and beast relationship, ah for lack of a better explanation.
01:14:58
Barry Sullivan
Oh, yeah.
01:15:00
The Jobs Podcast
it's It's still the basics.
01:15:03
Barry Sullivan
I tell you, you know, i'm going to say this and I'm going to preface this with, I think very highly of police drone programs. And I think very highly of our ah tactical flight officers and our pilots ah for the helicopters that come out and do amazing work finding bad guys.
01:15:20
Barry Sullivan
But I will tell you this is I a few months ago, i i hosted a joint training program where I brought out the it's called DFW Adventure Park in North Lake.
01:15:33
Barry Sullivan
ah This guy owns about little over 100 acres of like paintball fields and wooded areas. And he allows us to come out there and train for free. Amazing guy. His name's Larry.
01:15:44
Barry Sullivan
And he owns the DFW Adventure Parks. We come out there and we have just hundreds of acres to train real life scenario based training. So I brought our canine group out there and I invited numerous canine or drone programs from different police departments to come out and said, hey, let's let's work together.
01:16:03
Barry Sullivan
ah so that you guys can see what we're doing when we're on the ground with the dog. And then we can see what you guys are doing when you're searching with the drones.
01:16:10
The Jobs Podcast
Hmm. Yeah.
01:16:11
Barry Sullivan
And then let's work together to, you know, but to be just this unbelievable tag team of both technology and and and beast.
01:16:11
The Jobs Podcast
Mm-hmm.
01:16:18
The Jobs Podcast
yeah
01:16:20
Barry Sullivan
You know what I mean? And it was unbelievable how quickly these dogs found hidden decoys way before the drones ever found them. And it's just because of the way that they track, they use their nose, a sense of odor.
01:16:34
Barry Sullivan
it It's taking the human error out of it. These animals are known for tracking and hunting their prey, and they've been doing it for thousands of years.
01:16:43
Barry Sullivan
and And even though drones are amazing, helicopters the same way. My last partner, right before he retired, we we apprehended a hidden gang member that was in a culvert. And he was supposed to be armed with a gun.
01:16:43
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
01:16:56
Barry Sullivan
ah The other two suspects that we caught, they surrendered to our dog. And the third one, we had to go in and and look for him with with my canine Indy. And ah we had Air One out of Fort Worth there to help us.
01:17:08
Barry Sullivan
And ah my dog was already in odor going straight for him when the helicopter picked up on the heat source of the suspect. And all they really said over the radio was like, hey, your dog's going right for the seat source.
01:17:18
Barry Sullivan
And then boom, a canine apprehension bit the guy in the leg. And the guy, fortunately, didn't shoot any of us. ah We took him into custody and he ah unfortunately went to the hospital with more more holes than what the good Lord gave him. But
De-escalation and Prevention of Violence
01:17:32
Barry Sullivan
Uh, but he, but he went, he didn't get killed. He didn't get hurt.
01:17:35
Barry Sullivan
He got some band-aids.
01:17:35
The Jobs Podcast
Right. Yeah.
01:17:36
Barry Sullivan
He went to jail. Uh, and then, you know, I, I'm alive. My partners are alive. My dog's alive. And we took a ah violent criminal off the street, but it just goes to show you how it it doesn't matter what kind of technology you still can't beat the, uh,
01:17:53
Barry Sullivan
the prey drive, the hunt of these animals, their nose their nose is unbelievable.
01:18:00
The Jobs Podcast
yeah
01:18:00
Barry Sullivan
And, ah you know, they're still out there every day doing just amazing things. And when you pair us up with a helicopter or drone program, it's even, it's even better. I mean, We are doing amazing things, tracking down violent criminals and ah in keeping our our community safe.
01:18:17
Barry Sullivan
And we're doing it by just, like I said before, my chief, you know, my chief Arata is always giving us the tools that we need and what can make our job easier. we And we got to outsmart these criminals because they definitely don't care about us and and they they don't mind if if we don't go home to our families.
01:18:32
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
01:18:35
Barry Sullivan
So, ah That dog I know is going to put himself between me and a bad guy every time and give me the valuable seconds I need to be able to defend myself if needed.
01:18:46
The Jobs Podcast
You know, when I was doing the research for this interview, i always like to to maintain a little bit of naivete so I can ask superficial questions, generic questions for someone that may be interested in your line of work. But I also like to have a little bit of information. And you can hop on YouTube and just type in canine bites.
01:19:03
The Jobs Podcast
Well, my goodness, you can spend hours. I mean, and it it it never ceased to amaze me that you will see these huge behemoth of a man that will have a dog latch onto a limb.
01:19:06
Barry Sullivan
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.
01:19:16
The Jobs Podcast
And there is any masculinity that they had is out the door and they turn into a blithering idiot screaming for their mom.
01:19:20
Barry Sullivan
Absolutely.
01:19:24
The Jobs Podcast
And with, and I understand that I would do the exact same thing.
01:19:25
Barry Sullivan
Absolutely.
01:19:29
The Jobs Podcast
So it's so impressive to watch a dog do what it's trained to do. It's just awesome.
01:19:35
Barry Sullivan
And you you know, it's funny and you're absolutely right. I've seen grown men cry.
01:19:39
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
01:19:39
Barry Sullivan
ah by but yeah I've been bit by a dog during training and I was actually in the hospital because it it it messed me up pretty good. But what what ah I don't always talk about and people don't always ask is how many times has the dog been deployed on an apprehension where they haven't been a bad guy and they surrendered because the dog was there?
01:20:00
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah. Yeah.
01:20:01
Barry Sullivan
And I'm going to tell you, there's been plenty of times as a sergeant where I get called to a scene of a uncooperative, violent person that's wanting to fight law enforcement. And they have no problem fighting the police. They don't care about our tasers or batons.
01:20:15
Barry Sullivan
But as soon as I roll up and they hear that dog going nuts in the back, it automatically changes their behavior.
01:20:22
The Jobs Podcast
hu
01:20:22
Barry Sullivan
They know they're like, okay, I know they're probably not going to just shoot me, but they will get that dog out of the car.
01:20:28
The Jobs Podcast
yeah
01:20:28
Barry Sullivan
And they'll hear the dog and they'll see me walk up. I wear OD green uniform and it says canine on my uniform. So yeah I stick out when I show up on scene and people know it changes people's perception immediately.
01:20:42
Barry Sullivan
And it's unbelievable how quickly people both become cooperative and they stop going. They stop the aggression and they stop their opposition against us when we're trying to conduct lawful business.
01:20:54
Barry Sullivan
And I can't tell you how many times just having a canine on scene barking ah keeps us from a use of force situation.
01:21:02
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
01:21:02
Barry Sullivan
It's unbelievable. I've documented every single one of them with my first dog. I've documented them with my second dog and I have all the stats. I don't have them with me now, but we record all these interactions and I can show you just how many times we've taken people into custody where a dog has assisted without having to bite them.
01:21:20
Barry Sullivan
And it's it's an unbelievable tool. And and contrary to popular belief, I don't go chasing bad guys to bite them. I hope they surrender. I hope that we don't have to use force against them.
01:21:31
Barry Sullivan
Most law enforcement officers, we go to work every single day, and I hope that I don't have to use force against somebody.
01:21:31
The Jobs Podcast
yeah
01:21:38
Barry Sullivan
if i can If I can talk them into handcuffs ah without either one of us getting hurt, that's ah That's the best route. But we do have the tools that we need to take violent people into custody. That dog will bite you and it does not feel good.
01:21:51
Barry Sullivan
You saw it on those YouTube videos.
01:21:52
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
01:21:53
Barry Sullivan
ah But I think other people watch those videos on Facebook and Instagram too. So when that dog does show up on scene, it really changes ah opinions very quickly. it changes people's direction that they may have been going.
01:22:05
Barry Sullivan
And it's super beneficial to law enforcement. I think every agency should have a canine program. I wish I had a dog on every shift, to be honest with you.
01:22:13
The Jobs Podcast
I hadn't thought about that. That's ah just a nice way to deescalate everything. And so, look, let's all let's let's ah handle this like adults here, as opposed to if I can release the dog if you want me to.
01:22:24
Barry Sullivan
Yeah.
01:22:24
The Jobs Podcast
But I think you'd rather I not.
01:22:26
Barry Sullivan
Yeah, it's it's not it's not fun being bit by this dog. I've been bit during a training ah exercise. Another agency's dog got out during training and and bit me in the arm. And let me tell you, it does not feel good.
01:22:39
Barry Sullivan
ah You know, I'm a big guy and that dog took me down. ah
01:22:42
The Jobs Podcast
Hmm.
01:22:43
Barry Sullivan
this dog has taken down full-size men bigger than me. and ah And it's amazing when they're, you know, my first dog won a, we were at a canine competition Indy.
01:22:54
Barry Sullivan
He won the fastest ah dog competition during in this competition out in Grand Prairie. He won the fastest canine award. And I think he got up to 35 miles per hour. So if you think about it, a 90 to 95 pound fur missile coming at you with a mouthful of teeth at 35 miles per hour,
01:23:04
The Jobs Podcast
yep
01:23:11
The Jobs Podcast
ye yeah yeah
01:23:12
Barry Sullivan
You're going to feel every bit of that. And we hope that you surrender peacefully so that we can do our job and nobody gets hurt. But we're going we're going to
Attributes of Successful Canine Handlers
01:23:20
Barry Sullivan
use the tools that we have to take you into custody.
01:23:21
The Jobs Podcast
yeah
01:23:22
Barry Sullivan
You are going to go to jail for committing a ah heinous crime. And we're going to use whatever tools necessary to make sure that we can take you into custody safely. And a dog will do that. It doesn't won't kill you, but it it won't feel good either. so
01:23:36
The Jobs Podcast
What type of person, if someone wants to be a successful canine officer, what type of soft skills or maybe personality traits would lend to success?
01:23:50
Barry Sullivan
If you want to be a good canine handler, I think we could talk about this topic for hours. um And, you know, people have different other handlers probably have different opinions than me. This is just all my own personal opinions. But I think to be a good handler, you have to be a patient.
01:24:04
Barry Sullivan
um you have to You have to be very patient and understanding. These dogs, as hard as they are, ah one little thing that they've never seen before may throw them completely off.
01:24:15
Barry Sullivan
You have to understand, like, my first dog, here's Indy. I'll tell you this. When Indy was brand new, he had never seen in-ground sprinklers, irrigation. This dog has deployed with the SWAT team, flashbangs, jumped through car windows, been next to me during gunfire, and doesn't bat an eye.
01:24:35
Barry Sullivan
Not scared, doesn't care one bit. But one time we were in my backyard and the sprinklers came on and you would have thought the boogeyman was back there. this He was deathly afraid of the dadgum sprinklers, but he'd never seen that. I'd never walked him through it.
01:24:49
Barry Sullivan
i never showed this dog what... what that looks like. So to be to be a good handler, you need to be proactive. You need to be, this is a passion. Law enforcement needs to be a calling for you and not just a job.
01:25:02
Barry Sullivan
um Because this job, you have to live and breathe this profession. And the cops that you see that are out there doing the Lord's work, they're they're not They're not showing up three minutes before the beginning of their shift and leaving a minute before the end of their shift, if that makes sense.
01:25:19
The Jobs Podcast
Yep. Minuteman.
01:25:20
Barry Sullivan
Do you understand what I'm saying?
01:25:21
The Jobs Podcast
Oh, yeah.
01:25:21
Barry Sullivan
yeah it's not This is not a nine-to-five job. good handlers, good cops, good SWAT officers, good motor officers. This has to be something that you're passionate about and that you're not looking at the clock.
01:25:35
Barry Sullivan
You're more worried about doing the job proficiently and doing a good job at it.
01:25:38
Barry Sullivan
And it doesn't matter how long it takes you during the day to get to that point. um And you can't be a clock watcher. You can't think, okay, well, I'm only going to do this when I'm getting paid to do it. I can't tell you how many times I spent in my backyard working on obedience and building a relationship with that dog, not because I didn't get paid to do it.
01:25:38
The Jobs Podcast
Thank you.
01:25:58
Barry Sullivan
I did it on my own time because I thought, It's, I have to be the best that I can be. This dog needs to be the best that he can be so that when we're out on the streets and lives matter, that I've done everything I possibly can to make sure that we're being proficient so that when the time comes, that dog without question is going to do his job and My life is going to be saved.
01:26:23
Barry Sullivan
A beat partner's life is going to be saved or an inov ands innocent civilians who lives there. They're depending on us to be in shape and to be, and to be ready to be proficient, almost like being proficient with your gun.
01:26:34
Barry Sullivan
And, um, For cops, for anything, not just canine, if you want to get into this, you have to think it doesn't matter how long I'll be here. It doesn't matter how long I'll be on shift, how long it'll go over or working on my days off.
01:26:49
Barry Sullivan
None of that should matter. What should matter to you is proficiency and being the best that you can be. And when you can when you can put that over, when you can prioritize that,
01:27:00
Barry Sullivan
and not look at the clock and worrying about being out on time and go home early. I think that makes a good cop. So, you know, good canine handlers being proactive and and understanding that every day with canines, man, you work, you go to training one evening to work on a specific problem that you're having.
01:27:10
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
01:27:19
Barry Sullivan
But when you're working on that problem, you uncover three more that you got to fix. So I think you guys over in the fire service, ah I think you would agree with me on this is as a law enforcement officer, if you think do you know everything, it's time for you to retire because that's dangerous.
01:27:36
The Jobs Podcast
yeah
01:27:36
Barry Sullivan
If you're not learning and you're not constantly trying to better yourself in the profession, then you need to retire and go find something else because but it's constantly progressing. you always have to be working on yourself and your team and want to be the best that you can be, not only for yourself, your family to get home, but for the people that depend on you day to day. So...
01:27:58
The Jobs Podcast
I always talk about failure and I always ask the folks on my show about how they deal with failure. It's, it's inevitable that as human beings, we will make a mistake or mistakes periodically.
01:28:11
The Jobs Podcast
It's just, we're flawed by nature. And then when you throw in an animal in your relationship with an animal that, you know, you use the example of the sprinkler system that kind of spooked your dog and and he reacted positively.
01:28:13
Barry Sullivan
Oh, yeah.
01:28:24
The Jobs Podcast
ah differently than he would to other things that were just as stressful or more stressful. How do you best respond to failure with either you and you or your dog?
01:28:37
Barry Sullivan
You know, that's that's a great question, and I'm glad that you asked it because we talk about this when we talk to academy classes, ah new officers, you know, tenured officers, is we should be training to fail every single time.
01:28:51
Barry Sullivan
Every time you train, you should push yourself to find where it is that you're weak. Because in training, that's when we we want to fail and we want to know where our weaknesses are so that we can fix them.
01:29:03
Barry Sullivan
i He's no longer a handler.
01:29:03
The Jobs Podcast
Oh.
01:29:05
Barry Sullivan
He was in our group. I love this guy to death. I'm not going say his name because don't want embarrass him. But there for a while, he was the type of guy that would come to canine training and only do the exercises that his dog did very well.
01:29:18
The Jobs Podcast
oh
01:29:18
Barry Sullivan
We would put on a scenario and if he knew that his dog wouldn't be very good at it, he wouldn't do it. And he would only do what his dog was great at. And i it irritated me so much. And we had to have these conversations was, I'm not going out there to do what I know my dog will do best. I'm going to go out there and do what I can to make my help my dog get through a problem so that he gets better at where he's the weakest.
01:29:42
Barry Sullivan
And that should be for any of us. If I know that I suck at DWI enforcement, well, you could shy away and never arrest the DWI or pawn it off on someone else. Or You could sign up for more training, go out there with a beat partner that you know is good at it and start arresting as many DWIs as you can so that you can be proficient at it.
01:30:03
Barry Sullivan
Whatever it is, you can be scared off from it or you can work harder to get better at it. And that's what we all need to be focusing on is if it is important that we find out And we fail. We have to fail as officers, as canine handlers.
01:30:19
Barry Sullivan
We have to find where that failure is and try to address it during training so that in the field, we don't figure that out in the middle of of a dangerous situation. And you have to push yourself. You have to push your canine and ah and and find those failures. Do things. Get outside of your bubble.
01:30:37
Barry Sullivan
Do things that are uncomfortable for you so that you can figure out what it is, what's your threshold, what's your dog's threshold. Know what you're good at, what you're not good at. Because at the end of the day, if you've never done it and you expose your dog to it and he doesn't react well to it.
01:30:52
Barry Sullivan
Well, let's look at it. Have you trained vehicle deployments ah regularly? Is that why your dog's not wanting to jump in the car to bite this bad guy? Or the very first time the dog's ever been around a flashbang, he freaks out. Well, it's because he's never seen it. It's new.
01:31:08
Barry Sullivan
If you don't train it and get him comfortable with it, you can't expect for your dog just to naturally be accepting of this loud bomb going off next to its head. ah
01:31:17
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
01:31:18
Barry Sullivan
We have to figure these things out. We have to train it. You have to get outside your comfort zone because we do uncomfortable things. Firefighters are the same way. here Normal people aren't running into burning buildings.
01:31:30
The Jobs Podcast
No, we're not normal.
01:31:30
Barry Sullivan
You know, yeah. And cops and firefighters, we are not normal people.
01:31:35
The Jobs Podcast
No.
01:31:36
Barry Sullivan
You know, we're running towards gunfire.
01:31:38
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
01:31:38
Barry Sullivan
and if and And if you're not capable of doing that, you need to find something else to be doing. And I'll digress a little bit, but it it just comes out to the point of is you need to train to fail so you know what your capabilities are. And it's and to find your failure or to find your weakest point is not when you're in an actual live situation.
01:32:01
Barry Sullivan
It's in training. You have to humble yourself and train with other people, like-minded, like for me, with other canine handlers, and and and try your hardest to be um as dedicated to the job as possible so that you stay alive at the end of the day.
01:32:18
The Jobs Podcast
What is it that you
Balancing Stress and Community Impact
01:32:19
The Jobs Podcast
like most about your job?
01:32:21
Barry Sullivan
Oh, man, ah that's ah that's a laundry list. if you think I mean, ah top two, number one is I have my canine partner in the car with me everywhere I go.
01:32:26
The Jobs Podcast
Top two.
01:32:32
The Jobs Podcast
Hmm.
01:32:32
Barry Sullivan
ah I trust that dog more than I trust most people. ah And second is i love the support of our community.
01:32:43
Barry Sullivan
ah Being able to talk with people, even just, you know I get out of that, but get get out of the police car and talk to people that are not just the criminals that you're hunting.
01:32:54
Barry Sullivan
ah I can't stress how important it is for the people in your community to see who you are and know that they can trust you.
01:33:00
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
01:33:02
Barry Sullivan
And I don't think we do enough that we get so, it gets so demonized and we, we deal as cops, we deal with horrible people on a day-to-day basis where our mindset, we just get,
01:33:13
Barry Sullivan
I don't know what the word I am. I'm looking for, but you do.
01:33:15
The Jobs Podcast
Do you get jaded a little bit just dealing with the same?
01:33:17
Barry Sullivan
Yeah, that's, that's exactly what I'm talking about.
01:33:18
The Jobs Podcast
Okay. Yeah.
01:33:19
Barry Sullivan
You, you do get jaded just because of the horrible people that we're dealing with every day.
01:33:23
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
01:33:24
Barry Sullivan
And I try to remind some of these recruits, cause I told you earlier, I'm the ah supervisor over the FTO program. And I make sure that they are, when they go out to eat, they talk with people, they interact with people, interact with the people that you're not writing a ticket or taking to jail figure out, look at how happy these people are with you and how much your community supports you because it it really goes ah towards your psyche and to your mindset. And it really helps you when you're dealing with that Karen or or some jerk on the seat street.
01:33:57
Barry Sullivan
You know that not everyone is bad. Not everyone's bad.
01:33:59
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
01:34:00
Barry Sullivan
There are so many, there are thousands upon thousands of good people out there that support us. And they I call them the silent majority. And ah it's important. So if I had to bring it down to just the top two would be one, I've got my partner in the car with me all day, every day.
01:34:17
Barry Sullivan
And I trust him. ah I get to work a dog every day. and number two is is the community and remembering what this job's about and and how much we can impact people's lives. Very much like the people that impacted me when I was younger.
01:34:30
Barry Sullivan
They got me into this.
01:34:32
The Jobs Podcast
What do you dislike most about your job?
01:34:37
Barry Sullivan
What I dislike the most is, i think it's a two-parter. One is cops listen too much to negativity through social media and and the news.
01:34:52
Barry Sullivan
That's hard. um i I dislike,
01:34:59
Barry Sullivan
I think sometimes you have to prioritize your family life between work and family. That is extremely important.
01:35:10
Barry Sullivan
I talked to you earlier about doing this job all the time, 24 hours a day, you're a canine handler, but you have to be able to sit down and talk to your spouse about that.
01:35:15
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
01:35:18
Barry Sullivan
When I first became canine, i I sat down and told my wife, hey, look, I have this opportunity and ah this is going to really take up a lot of my time. And I needed to know that she was on board with it. and And she was.
01:35:32
Barry Sullivan
She's never once in the past, you know, 11 years I've been doing canine has ever once gave me any flack for doing this job, getting called out in the middle of the night, being gone, long hours.
01:35:45
Barry Sullivan
Never once has she ever complained about my job. And you got to find a significant other that's going to do that. um So one is just that mental stigma ah that cops have. They don't but don't reach out for help if they're if they're having a hard time.
01:36:03
Barry Sullivan
And just sometimes the public's The presentation that the public gets thinking, you know, you yeah you have the one bad cop ah that they smear on the on the news, and then all of a sudden we're all that way.
01:36:16
Barry Sullivan
ah
01:36:16
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
01:36:17
Barry Sullivan
that's the That's one of the hardest things I face because I i see so much. I see every day. what these cops are doing on the streets and how much, you know, people are in tears hugging our police officers because we had to step up in a hard time for them and help them.
01:36:32
Barry Sullivan
And you just see so many good things, but that's never really pointed out. and And, you know, we don't need the glory, ah but it does hurt when ah one bad cop can make thousands look bad and we got to work 10 times harder to make us all look or to change public perception. So,
Career Reflections and Future Aspirations
01:36:53
Barry Sullivan
If that answers your question, I think that would be things that I don't like about this job is ah just those things that i mentioned.
01:37:03
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah. Is there another career that if you could go back and i almost already know the answer to this, but since you've been in, you've had this in your sight since you were young and you had those early positive impressions on your life, but was there another career that you, you thought, you know, if I could go back and do it, there was this one other one that kind of piqued my interest a little bit.
01:37:26
Barry Sullivan
Man, you know, not really. I mean, law enforcement was always number one. i was going to do whatever I needed to do, scale whatever mountain I had to do to achieve a goal.
01:37:37
Barry Sullivan
You know, there's something, you know my mother always told me, always be a leader, not a follower.
01:37:42
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
01:37:42
Barry Sullivan
And, ah you know, so I always knew ah I'll work as hard as I need to work to achieve whatever goal I need to achieve. It never, it's never easy, but, um, You know, I always thought I never saw myself ah being a dog trainer or training these dogs.
01:38:00
Barry Sullivan
um I didn't know what it really entailed until I became a handler. I always wanted to be canine. ah But ah believe it or not, and i always thought about ah being a teacher.
01:38:12
Barry Sullivan
uh, or, or, or going into, uh, teaching. I taught at the police Academy, ah a few years ago, just like as an adjunct professor, um here and there, it wasn't full time. It was just at a local Academy to help cover a few courses, but I really enjoy talking about things that I'm passionate about.
01:38:30
Barry Sullivan
ah and, uh, teaching people, helping people achieve what they need to achieve. that That's just a great feeling. And so ah if I had to go back and and do something other than law enforcement, I don't know. I think ah so some type of profession where, you know, teaching or some some to that effect probably, her i think that's where I would Yeah.
01:38:57
The Jobs Podcast
Well, I got two teenage boys, so if you were a teacher, you're still teaching animals. I mean, they're feral, man.
01:39:01
Barry Sullivan
Yeah. Oh, man. Dude, you're you're not joking. I got a seven-month-old baby, and he is starting to move around.
01:39:07
The Jobs Podcast
Oh.
01:39:09
Barry Sullivan
and And when he starts walking, I'm in trouble, brother.
01:39:10
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
01:39:13
The Jobs Podcast
Well, when it gets quiet and you you can't see them, that's when you get, it's like, oh good grief. Where'd they go now? you know And then it gets interesting.
01:39:19
Barry Sullivan
Yeah.
01:39:20
The Jobs Podcast
But hold on for the ride, man. It's fun.
01:39:22
Barry Sullivan
Yes, sir.
01:39:24
The Jobs Podcast
Barry, thank you so much, man. You are a great representative for law enforcement and for canine officers, your department. they should be ah They should know they are blessed to have you work for them. you You did a great job, and I really appreciate you taking the time to explain your career in depth like this.
01:39:40
Barry Sullivan
Yeah, thank you so much for giving me the opportunity. I just hope ah others that may be listening to this, um they they continue to work hard and and never stop trying to achieve their goal because it's it's never going to be easy, but you you definitely could do it.
01:39:56
Barry Sullivan
little bit of hard work and determination for sure. So thank you for what you do and and and sharing these experiences with the public so that maybe someone can take from this and ah and achieve their goal. So thank
01:40:08
The Jobs Podcast
Thank you very much, man. I appreciate it
01:40:10
Barry Sullivan
Yes, sir. Thank you.