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Kevin - Hardscape/Landscape Professional
39 Plays13 days ago
Kevin began mowing lawns in 2000 as a side business in high school to support himself through college. He hung up hand-made signs in hair salons and the grocery store and ran ads in the local newspaper. The unfortunate part of this business idea was that he did not own a lawnmower. He borrowed a push mower from a family member and started out mowing. A few years later he saw an ad for a local mowing company for sale and he was able to make the purchase. Now, Kevin is the owner of a Landscaping company. This interview is a great snapshot of what really goes on in to making a business run and the countless hours, and years, it takes to be successful. There are a ton of kernels of advice in this from a guy who never gave up and made it work, thru work. Thanks Kevin! Kevin and Custom Creations 417 can be found HERE.
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Transcript
Introduction to the Podcast and Guest
00:00:00
Speaker
Hey folks, you're listening to the jobs podcast. I'm your host Tim Hendricks and let's go ahead and get started with our guest today. His name is Kevin Runyon. He is a landscape pro, outdoor kitchens, hardscapes.
00:00:12
Speaker
If you've got a yard that you want to make look beautiful, this is the man for the job. Welcome Kevin. Thank you. It's great to be here. So let's go ahead and start off with an origin story of Kevin, a little bit of history about the man behind 417. forget what the name of your business is. I'm sorry. No worries. Custom Creations Landscaping and Lawn.
00:00:33
Speaker
That's right. Okay. Go ahead.
Kevin's Journey into Landscaping
00:00:35
Speaker
and So, you know, actually born in Tulsa, Oklahoma, um but ah quickly moved to Marshfield, Missouri by the time I was about two years old.
00:00:46
Speaker
and Marshfield ever since, small town right outside of Springfield. And um that's that's where I came from. Did you have any early influences as far as family members that worked in same vein that you're in, or are you kind of a one-off from maybe what your parents did?
00:01:06
Speaker
Yeah, no, I'm an individual story. the Nobody in my family um was in this industry at all. I was raised on a farm, so mean, have an agricultural background, but nothing in this specific industry at all.
00:01:21
Speaker
what Was there something when you were younger, did you start mowing lawns in the summer, making money in high school, and it just kind of blossomed into a full-blown company? or Yeah.
00:01:34
Speaker
Basically, yes. So um when I graduated, well, my senior of high school, I was planning to go to college, and I did go to college, but I was trying to find a good job to help pay for that. And I looked around at some commercial construction jobs and trying to get on with those guys because they paid pretty good. And um I just, nobody was hiring at the time. This was back in the year 2000.
00:01:59
Speaker
And so I just, one a friend of mine said, hey, i don't know if this is, you know, what you want to do for a career or anything, but I mow yards on the weekends on the side. And he's like, have to turn people away. I just, you know, at that time, this is 25 years ago. So, you know, it's, it's elderly and wealthy people and whatever. of course, mowing is very commonplace now, but back then it wasn't. And,
00:02:23
Speaker
So i said, well, I don't know. It doesn't sound like much of a career, but we'll think about it. And another week went by and I said, well, maybe ought try this just to at least have something to do. Other than that, I mean, I had other jobs that I did. I had a hay hauling crew and different things like that, like most rural kids do or did back then anyway. But so I made some flyers and hung them up at hair salons and put an ad in a local newspaper. And I had to borrow a push mower. I didn't even own one.
00:02:51
Speaker
So I borrowed a family member's push mower and away we went. My first year I had 10 yards that I mowed. That was back before the zero turn. You had to really earn your mowing whenever you were doing it with a push mower.
00:03:03
Speaker
Absolutely. Absolutely. So you started, you said you had 10 yards. Did it just start to take off or did you do like fall cleanup? And then, i mean, we don't get much snow around here, but did you get into snow plowing or what what were the steps or the process that kind of had it take on life of its own and become a full fledged business?
00:03:25
Speaker
Yeah. So that first year, ah senior year, i just I just mowed, you know, just the the the small accumulation that I could get off of my flyers and whatever. And I also took a job with another guy that was, he's a few years older than me. He and I had hauled hay together was He had taken over a mowing company that he had worked for, but he now owned it. And so I took on a job working for him and really learned more the commercial side of it.
00:03:55
Speaker
And he and I bought some customers together and split them.
Business Growth and Challenges
00:04:00
Speaker
And so I gained a few more customers that way, but I was still mowing kind of, you know, in the amateur league. And, and so The next year, i for whatever reason, I had a Springfield paper, which I didn't subscribe, so I don't know why I had it. But I was looking in the classifieds, and somebody had put an ad in there for a small mowing company in Springfield that was for sale.
00:04:23
Speaker
They had decent list of customers and there was, um, I think two older trucks and one of them had a snowplow on it and, uh, you know, and, and a package of equipment.
00:04:34
Speaker
And, uh, so uh, I didn't think that I could ever ah afford to do anything like that. I mean, a rural farm kid and didn't have it much to my name. So I'm like, well, I don't know, but I was interested. It piqued my interest enough. I called the guy and he told me all about it and I got excited.
00:04:53
Speaker
So I just went to a locally owned bank here in Marshfield, sat down and talked with them and and they they said, well, there's actually a chance we could do something. And I ended up getting an SBA loan through them and i bought that company. and um And from there, course, advertising was much different back then. Back then it was yellow pages or radio or TV newspapers. That was about all you had and like your billboards or something like that. So You know, we went we were in the yellow pages and we did different things and, and of course, word of mouth.
00:05:26
Speaker
And so just kept growing it organically that way. Well, not organically, but I mean, through that type of advertising. and And then with the advent of all the digital marketing, that was that was wonderful. And we now have a full-time marketing staff that helps us with all of those advertising needs. But yeah, I mean, the company just continued to evolve from there.
00:05:51
Speaker
Did you have, when you bought this business, were there already other people that were the crew that would run? Because you've got multiple trucks, you're just one person. Were you buying ah set of employees, essentially? or So there was one helper um that worked for the gentleman that I bought it from, and I kept him on ah and also hired another family family member of mine and gave him a job because I was also going to school full-time, so I needed some help.
00:06:20
Speaker
Yeah. So we did that, and quite frankly, those two took every dime that we made. I didn't make anything for a few years. I mean, it's all we could do to keep the bills paid. There would be times we were down to, I remember a time I was down to 34 cents in the company checkbook.
00:06:40
Speaker
And we needed to fill so the truck up the next day. i was like, what are we going to do? Luckily, I opened the mail that night and I got a couple of checks from people paying their invoices. So, you know, we just barely skinned by. And I mean, that continued for years. The the rough is the rough part is the beginning.
00:06:57
Speaker
You mentioned earlier that you were kind of doing the residential stuff and then this other guy was doing the commercial stuff. let's go down a bit of a rabbit hole. Is there a big difference between what you do on a residential job versus a commercial job, or is it kind of the same just on a larger scale?
00:07:16
Speaker
It's basically the same. To be honest with you, residential typically requires more detail. um Commercial, depending on the business, don't get me wrong, there's always specifics, but I'm a very detail-oriented person, so I gravitate toward that and other people aren't. And so they don't even want to mess with residentials because they know they're just going to get nitpicked and want every little thing taken care of.
00:07:42
Speaker
But in my world, um I feel like I didn't do my job if they found something to have me come back and do. So... the The main difference in the two is typically just the level of ah detail that they require.
00:08:01
Speaker
Most people are a little more picky about their home than they are their office or warehouse or whatever the situation is. The education that you got or you were going to college, what were you studying in college again?
Transition to Landscaping Design and Trends
00:08:16
Speaker
Well, and oddly enough, I was going to school to be a veterinarian. and i I went to ah MSU. Of course, at that time it was SMSU and ah got an animal science degree there and then on to veterinary school at University of Missouri.
00:08:33
Speaker
So where was the, where was the gear shifted to where the veterinary stuff went away and you leaned into the landscaping stuff? Well, when I, when I finished veterinary school, um, you know, I, I hadn't signed any contracts. I hadn't, you know, made any definite plans yet. And, uh,
00:08:53
Speaker
Just came back and just immersed myself back in the business. And was just one of those things. i just i just I was there for a while, ah you know back in the business for a while. And a while turned into long while. And then a long while turned into years. And then at some point, it it just took back over. So it was it was obvious that I was just going to stay in it.
00:09:16
Speaker
I i ah gained incredible education and ah vast amount and amount of knowledge that I still, I do use in the company because we have a, in order to do what I did, I've got basically a biology degree and a chemistry minor. So that's very helpful in what I do.
00:09:35
Speaker
But a lot of the other things I don't use on a daily basis, but I do use in my personal life. So it's great knowledge to have. I don't regret it, but yeah, I ended up not using that.
00:09:46
Speaker
Hmm. You don't hear too many people that go through veterinary school and then just decide not to do it and go a different path. But that just goes to show you that you never know really what life's where life's going to take you. That's right. And I always tell everybody, i'm hopefully there's nobody like me out there. So I'm pretty unique.
00:10:04
Speaker
So, you know, looking over your website, you don't just mow lawns. I mean, you guys, you're doing trees, you're doing landscaping, you're doing ah boulders. I mean, you make it look like a private garden in somebody's home, especially with the outdoor fireplaces and kitchens and whatnot.
00:10:23
Speaker
How did you shift gears from just kind of maintaining landscape to then doing into more the hardscape outdoor living type stuff? Well, so in the beginning, of course, like as we already covered, I was mainly just mowing yards, but I've always been more of a detail oriented and kind of artistic slash creative type person. Yeah.
00:10:48
Speaker
And so as I'm mowing these lawns, you know, I would look at their landscaping as I'm, as I'm doing my job. And, and, uh, I would, I would like to be like, Oh, well this, this looks really nice. But I wonder if, if they added like three of three of this right here, I think that would really set this off and Oh, maybe a boulder over there would look really neat. And I just really got interested in the landscaping and,
00:11:08
Speaker
And so I started trying to advertise myself and get more of the landscaping type work. And, uh, and as I did, i found that I really enjoyed that the most.
00:11:20
Speaker
And, and actually, um five years ago, we stopped mowing. We haven't mowed in five years. We are strictly uh, landscape design, build, and maintain company, as well as on the lawn side of things.
00:11:35
Speaker
We do take care of lawns in the sense of providing fertilization, weed control programs, um and fall seeding and aeration. is that fertilizer aspect, I can see your chemistry biology degree really coming in handy with that part of your business.
00:11:49
Speaker
You bet. You bet. Yeah, it's very handy because to do that part correctly, of course, we're licensed through the USDA and they have a ton of regulations and we get inspected multiple times a year, surprise inspections at our facilities.
00:12:01
Speaker
So, you know, they keep a close eye on us. But if if if you're using a chemical wrong, then, you know, there could be big repercussions, not only just to you from um breaking a regulation, but also to the environment. And so, you know, we're mixing ester compounds and different things like that. So yeah, my degrees have come in extremely handy for that part.
00:12:23
Speaker
Have the fertilizers that they use now, I'm going to use an example in my life. I had a part-time job working for a pest control company 24 years ago ah just to get me through life kind of thing until I landed in my career.
00:12:38
Speaker
And I know now that a lot of the chemicals that we used back then, while they were extremely effective, were also, let's say they were pretty stout as far as the environment goes.
00:12:49
Speaker
Are you seeing that same kind of a progression towards maybe chemicals that aren't quite as effective as the old stuff, but they're a lot safer for pets, for people, for the environment.
00:13:00
Speaker
I, that, that is a huge shift, uh, in the, uh, green industry as a whole. Everybody's trying to, and, and honestly, people don't even like the word chemical. We try not to use it with, um, uh, you know, we say product or something like that. and I see.
00:13:14
Speaker
And, uh, but, but yeah, I mean, absolutely. So everybody is much more, um, environmental conscious, um, ah self-conscious about our personal health, our pet's health, children's health, et cetera, et cetera, which we should be.
00:13:30
Speaker
you know And it's a double-sided coin for for people like me because we've had great products in the past that do the job that we need them to do. Like, I need to i need kill this um you know this this nimble weed out of this beautiful fescue and bluegrass lawn. Well, the product that does that is now not available for you since know it used to exist because we used to be able to do it, and now I can't do that anymore. And so, you know, it's just things like that get a little frustrating. But At the end of the day, it's for the greater good. And so, you know, we just, we just, our thing is we just have great communication with our customers. We're honest with them. be like, this is how we used to fight this.
00:14:09
Speaker
We're still looking for a new way to do it. I'm sure somebody is going to develop something new one of these days, but it's not here yet. But it, when it is, we'll know about it and we'll get it taken care of. But we, but we also have some even better products than we used to have. We've got a lot more Pre-compounded is the term I would use, products that didn't used to exist. So when we first started, we were mixing...
00:14:33
Speaker
you know, four and five different jugs in our herbicides to do, you know, a single lawn. And now, you know, there there's a lot of those that are pre-compounded with all those things in it that we already need to do the different weeds from clovers to grassy weeds, et cetera. And so some advances are good and of course some are not, but if it's all in the name of the greater good, then I guess I'm behind it.
00:15:01
Speaker
Well, yeah, you don't want i mean, a chemical may get rid of the crabgrass, but if you get a third arm growing out of your head, that's typically, you know, that's frowned upon. That could be frowned upon, yeah. Yeah. We've got to find stuff that there's a balance, I'm sure. Yeah. What is the, that shift that you said where you moved away from mowing lawns to just doing hardscapes? And and ah I keep wanting to use the term landscape architecture. I think, i don't know if that's an accurate term, but yeah.
00:15:30
Speaker
What was the moment like when you said, okay, we're just getting so much business on this side of the coin that we really want to lean into. Did you just phase out the other one or was it a hard shift or was it a gradual change?
00:15:43
Speaker
It was a hard shift. Um, and it was hard to do. Um, quite frankly, um You know, just from historical and even emotional standpoint, you know, mowing is what started this company that now, you know, has multiple employees and supports many families and, you know, we're proud of, but So, you know, to get rid of the thing that started it is, was a difficult choice mentally to do.
00:16:11
Speaker
But at the end of the day, financially, we, we were not turning a profit on the mowing anymore because, um, again, you know, I started mowing over 25 years ago. So,
00:16:25
Speaker
ah There was little to no competition. I would say in the entire city of Springfield, which has, you know, population and the city limits well over a quarter million. I mean, there might've been 10 mowing companies back then.
00:16:38
Speaker
And now, I mean, I can't imagine there's any less than 2,500. I mean, between all the single person guys and the two man crews and the big companies, there's just literally thousands of them.
00:16:51
Speaker
um And so, With us, in being the size that we are, we have to have our workers comp. We have to have um the big liability policies and our overhead is huge. i mean, we're giving our employees benefits and we're paying them good living wages where they can raise a family. And so You add in all that competition from companies who don't have the type of overhead that we do, and it just was not working for us anymore financially.
00:17:19
Speaker
So, um you know, I just had to make the hard decision and and we literally just cut it off one year. We let our clients know and we just stopped it at the end of a season. That was it. We knew we were not going to start back up to next.
00:17:32
Speaker
You bring up a good point. When you are doing, when you're running a business correctly, where you have workers' compensation, you have liability, you want to provide a decent wage for your workers, there are all these boxes that a legitimate business wants to tick because that's just the smart thing to do.
00:17:53
Speaker
When you compare with the guys that don't have to pay for any of that stuff, and they can just show up and mow your lawn, and if they damage something, well, you know, too bad, so sad, we're out of here.
Business Ethics and Financial Management
00:18:03
Speaker
I can see how it would be tough to run a business correctly and still turn a profit when your competition isn't playing by the same rules.
00:18:11
Speaker
Yeah, that that's exactly right. And, you know, I try to never talk negative about any other companies, but sure ah because we all start somewhere, you know, I started off as, you know, just me and a push mower. So, I mean, I never frown upon anybody. i always applaud, you know, the effort.
00:18:25
Speaker
But the truth of the matter is when I started, I did not have insurance. I did not you know, have any of this overhead costs. I was still operating. um I still lived at home. I was operating out of my parents' house. They put up with me parking trailers in their yard, you know, for few years.
00:18:41
Speaker
And so, you know, I totally understand that. But for me, just the ethical side of me, i I mean, I would have went to the bank and borrowed money to fix something that I broke if I couldn't afford it or whatever. But There are plenty of those that won't. And so, yeah, it's a huge struggle.
00:19:01
Speaker
And even now on the landscape side, you have ah good reputation. We have all five-star reviews. And, you know, even now, there's plenty of even just landscape install companies that can and operate ah less expensively than we do.
00:19:17
Speaker
And so it takes the client understanding you know, what they're getting in the end product to hire us over them. If you don't know any better or if you honestly don't care that much about, you know, which one is better quality, then, you know, those are the customers that are going to flip the other way. But in the grand scheme of things, the customers that we probably don't need as the company.
00:19:40
Speaker
Yeah. The shift over to the hardscape, I'm going off of just an opinion here, so please correct me if I'm wrong. But when you're mowing lawns, that's a constant turnover. There's constant work being done.
00:19:56
Speaker
There's constant payment, hopefully, coming in. Like you mow a lawn every week kind of a thing and you get paid for it kind of a deal. When you move over the hardscape stuff, you're taking on a much bigger project that I know that the end payment will be a lot larger, but you could go for an extended period of time without having any money coming in and only money going out.
00:20:18
Speaker
Correct. Is that accurate? Absolutely. hundred percent accurate. How do you plan for when you're moving from steady drip, drip, drip of income coming into, all right, what's going to be lean for the next three weeks, four weeks, five weeks, whatever, however long a project may take.
00:20:35
Speaker
Is that just kind of plan ahead, save a little bit of money and nest egg or... How do you make that work? Right. So, you know, this industry in general is quote unquote seasonal. So most anybody in this industry is going to make, you know, the bulk of their money in about an eight month period of time, eight to nine.
00:20:56
Speaker
it And then their income is going to drop dramatically over the winter. um Now we do snow removal and others do too. But as you mentioned, snow removal is very unreliable here.
00:21:08
Speaker
Sometimes it's okay. Sometimes there's none. Sometimes it's excellent, but um it's nothing that you can count on. um So yeah, we just, over the years, so we mowed for roughly 20 years. And so between mowing and landscaping and all the things that we were doing at that time, we did hopefully make some smart decisions financially and we keep reserve accounts because if the ground gets ah saturated in say November or December and we can't and get our equipment on properties to do landscape installs, I mean, my, my employees still need their salaries and my, you know, all my bills are still due and my insurance payments are due. So, so we, we have, we have, um, you know, always had a reserve fund that we can pull out of.
00:21:57
Speaker
And if we pull out of it, then our first priority when the next season rolls around is as soon as we start getting good income again, we, we replenish that. We never, we never deplete it. Um, and I always try to get it to a certain level by the end of the year to where I feel like I'm safe for the winter, no matter what comes. But, uh, so yeah, that took some time to build that up.
00:22:18
Speaker
And then, um, yeah, so you're basically, but when we do a landscape install, I'm basically financing that job for that customer until we're done. I do things a little different than a lot of companies.
00:22:29
Speaker
I mean, a lot of companies, most companies take a deposit and there's nothing wrong with that. They would probably think I'm insane for not, but I'm just, I'm kind of a old school handshake kind of guy. And if they're entrusting me to provide, you know, the product that they're wanting, that they've been dreaming about and thinking about, then, you know, I,
00:22:50
Speaker
I trust them that they're goingnna they're going to do their part when we're done. And I think it instills a lot of trust on the client side in us that I'm not willing to take a dime until we're completely done and they are completely happy with this product and they sign off on it and then I'll say, yes. So I'll, I will send you an invoice. So, um, it took a long time to build to that level, but it, you know, look again, 25 years, it was harder in the beginning.
00:23:21
Speaker
the good Lord blessed us and we've done a lot of work, but we keep those reserve funds so we can fund the projects and, And we bill for them later. As you continue on that steady stream, it does catch up to you again.
00:23:34
Speaker
There's a lull when you first make that switch to ah just installation company versus service. You know, there's definitely a lag. It's like you're not getting regular, but now...
00:23:47
Speaker
um the checks for the, or the payments for the projects, you know, they trickle in over a 30 day period. And so, you know, now it's still, you know, quote unquote steady income for the most part, but,
00:24:01
Speaker
But yeah, we're at the end of the day, we are still completely reliant on that phone ringing. If that phone completely stops ringing or I quit getting website estimate requests, then we're out of work. And so that part can still keep me up at night.
00:24:15
Speaker
um But, you know, again, we've we've been blessed. And so far, that hasn't happened. Do you have that lull in the wintertime? i can imagine you've got a pretty decent, I'll say stable of equipment, you know, uh, skid steer tractors, lawnmowers, whatever you may have is the downtime.
00:24:37
Speaker
can also see ah a double whammy in the wintertime where a, you're not having the regular influx of money coming in. And then B, that might be the downtime when your equipment gets some much needed repairs, some much needed maintenance, and that can be ah good chunk of money going out.
00:24:57
Speaker
Is that, is that typically what happens because of the seasonal ebb and flow? Yes, absolutely. and There's been a few winters when can say that, you know, we've just continued to be in the black all through winter. Um, if it was a dry and mild winter and we could just keep landscaping, then, you know, it's been great because we do typically have, uh, a backlog of work. And so, you know, we always have work to do over the winter. It's just typically the weather,
00:25:27
Speaker
The weather doesn't allow us to do it or the ground, it could be too wet or frozen or whatever. And so we can't install. So anyway, we have, we've had a few successful winters that, that we would still be in the black, but many, many were, were literally in the red.
00:25:41
Speaker
Again, we try to prepare for those financially, and we know that we are going to spend some money on upgrades and repairs and and different things like that to our equipment, our tools, our facilities, our trucks, um all of the things get it because that's when we have the most time to devote to that.
00:25:58
Speaker
So again, it all just boils down to smart budgeting and and just trying trying to set back when you can. Definitely, Definitely spend less than you make every day.
00:26:15
Speaker
The reality of managing, owning, and running a business. There are a lot of things that I don't think people realize goes into success.
00:26:25
Speaker
It's nice to have the new equipment, the fancy new truck, but But the reality is you need to keep that truck and then drive it until the wheels fall off most likely.
00:26:36
Speaker
Most businesses I don't think should be going out and buying new equipment all the time. The maintenance part of it, planning for the slow season, planning for the maintenance, planning for I still need to pay my employees when there's not as much money coming in.
Employee Management and Hiring Philosophy
00:26:52
Speaker
There's so much scanning the horizon and seeing what's coming two, three, four months down. That's a lot of what running a business entails.
00:27:03
Speaker
And I think sometimes people realize that's where the successful and the failure start to part ways. Yeah, I totally agree. i always say that you have to be half fortune teller to own a business.
00:27:19
Speaker
But yeah, we're constantly thinking about the future and planning. if ah And if somebody's just running off of whatever's in the checkbook that day or the jobs that are coming in and they're busy for this couple months, I mean, everything could be great.
00:27:34
Speaker
I think most businesses almost most in general, I think, have the feast and famine situation. There's, you know, times of, times of, of, of excess and times of, of not enough. know, we all have those ebbs and flows, but,
00:27:49
Speaker
if you're If you're basing things on good time, you know, you tell the wife we're going to buy a new boat and all these things and and then things slow down, then, you know, you can really you can really hurt yourself and obviously your your employees, your customers, all the things later down the road.
00:28:08
Speaker
Because you know the last thing we want to do is have to lay someone off or or or let them go because we made a financial mistake or error or I didn't see something coming. So, yeah, you wear that weight every day. And I don't take it lightly when we hire someone because...
00:28:27
Speaker
I basically put it on my shoulders that they're depending on me to provide for their family. And so um we really consider all hires. um We consider them and very intensely before we commit. And then we do actually make a commitment to them. ah we did The very last straw of anything would be to let our employees go.
00:28:49
Speaker
We would start trying to sell off other assets or whatever first and try to make it through whatever situation we might be in. Luckily, we haven't had to do any of that, but that would be my plan of attack if it did. You just mentioned something there a second ago about when you hire somebody.
00:29:05
Speaker
Let's go down that trail about when you hire someone, when someone comes in and they're looking for a job and you're doing an interview, what are the kind of things that you look for in a potential employee?
00:29:18
Speaker
So, you know, in this industry, so we need, we kind of need the ultimate person. Unfortunately, it's, and they're hard, they're, they're rare to find, but we need, ideally they would have a great head on their shoulders, tons of common sense, and also be able to learn quickly and learn on the move.
00:29:38
Speaker
They also need to be as physically fit as possible. Of course, we don't all have to look like we go to the gym every day to be physically fit, but we work hard. We pick up boulders, we pick up trees, we dig holes, we rake dirt and rock. And that's what we do all day, every day. And to find the perfect person that has brains and brawn is very, very, very difficult. Also then with that, another thing that we look very hard at is attitude.
00:30:09
Speaker
um You know, we could have somebody come in that, that just checks every box, but they're kind of, they kind of got a negative attitude and To be quite honest, I learned the hard way that we're not going to hire that person because um that bad attitude is like a cancer in your company. And you can you can ruin five good employees by putting up with that from one. And so we that is a big, big attribute that we look for. But ah but yeah, it's...
00:30:37
Speaker
As I think any business has a difficulty finding just the right employee, but the biggest, I know, as long as they have a good attitude, if they have potential, then I'm willing to take a gamble on them because I can teach them what they need to know as long as they're open to it. But you can't change somebody's attitude most of the time. And so as long as they've got that and a willingness to learn, then it's a good fit for us.
00:31:03
Speaker
I've seen a lot of, as I interview folks, a lot of them are in the position of hire. And when I was younger, it was always, well, did you have any kind of ah associate's or a bachelor's or what kind of education do you have?
00:31:16
Speaker
Now, it seems like there's a lot more companies, big and small, that's saying, well, yes, if you have this, that's nice. We're also open to someone who has a little bit of life experience, but I'm more focused on your character because most jobs can be taught. Now, of course, if you're talking about a legal job or medical field or something, you have to have specialized training. Think if you have someone who's moldable and teachable and they're willing to try as opposed to just kind of being a bump on a log, that's a lot of
00:31:49
Speaker
ah employers like that because it's like, okay, I've got something I can work with here as opposed to someone who right out of the gate has all the education in the world, but they can't, you can't teach them anything.
00:32:01
Speaker
Absolutely. I couldn't agree more. um Yeah. And, and so, I mean, I, I a hundred percent agree with everything you just said. And, and one more point that, that what you just said sparked is,
00:32:14
Speaker
I had someone tell me one time that they don't like to hire people with experience in their particular line of work because they they probably learned bad habits. and ah and And we've found some of that.
00:32:27
Speaker
You know, I'm 50-50 on that because it is helpful if somebody has some clue what they're doing when they start ah for us. And we're not starting with just a completely blank slate. But yeah.
00:32:38
Speaker
We have had some people bring few bad habits that we've had to train out of them um because what quality one company expects and what quality we expect are two different things.
00:32:50
Speaker
And so ah it can provide a challenge. So yeah, I'm 100% on board with just a moldable, teachable person with a willingness to work and learn and a good attitude. i mean, I'll hire them over somebody that's been in landscaping for 20 years every day if they've got the right attitude.
00:33:10
Speaker
What do you like most about your job now? Well, I, I, I still work with my crew every day. Um, almost every day, once in a great while, I, I, I have too many bids or too much office work and I have to stay here. But, um, I, I, I, I enjoy building landscapes. I also enjoy designing them, doing the bids and estimates and, and doing the designs because that's creative. But when you actually get to put that creativity to life and see it, you know, form before you and, and, and see the reaction on the,
00:33:43
Speaker
clients faces and hear what they have to say. i mean, that's, You know, just super fulfilling every day. i love it when they come home after work and we've put up, you know, a retaining wall and they're like oh my gosh, I'm glad I can finally see this. It looks so great. I couldn't envision it before.
00:33:59
Speaker
Or, you know, we add a water feature or a fire feature or, you know, just incredible plantings and a cool design. So, you know, that part is fun for me. The creativity and actually physically building the landscapes is probably my favorite.
00:34:16
Speaker
It's not an instant gratification. I know your work is an instant, but in a day or two where there was just a little hillside, you could have huge boulders, a big retaining wall, trees. I mean, you can just see the fruits of your labor in a short amount of time, and that's got to be satisfying.
00:34:35
Speaker
Yeah, it is. It's very fulfilling. I'm a, I'm a very goal oriented person in general. And so usually at the beginning of every day, i kind of set a goal for where I want that project to be by the end of the day. And, um, you know, so sometimes they're lofty goals and sometimes they're, you know,
00:34:53
Speaker
easily attainable. But, uh, but as we, as we work to achieve those goals and then we step back at the end of the day with, you know, all the crew and we're like, Hey, what do you guys think? That turned out pretty good. Don't you think? And everybody's snapping pictures and texting their wives like, Hey, look what we built today. And,
00:35:09
Speaker
I mean, that's a, that's such a good feeling. And, um, and yeah, I absolutely love it. And I love it when our clients love their spaces, use their spaces and, and, you know, and want to, want to invite people over and show them off. I mean, there's no better compliment in the world.
00:35:25
Speaker
I'm, I don't mean to step on any toes here to the ladies listening, but when I hear you talk about how you're building and I know that you'll have no backhoes and different type bulldozers and equipment there to move It seems like I'm a guy and I listen to that and like, that does sound like fun to just be on a skid steer on it. You know, I mean, every guy has a Tonka truck growing up and it just seems like guys are in their element when they're building stuff in nature.
00:35:55
Speaker
Right. Yeah, yeah, I agree. ah think, you know, I mean, men and women have, you know, different innate senses, I think, you know, and, you know, we can't fight that. It's it's it's part of human nature. But but I'll I'll be honest, I've I think I've employed.
00:36:13
Speaker
In the past, on our landscape install crew, I've probably employed four different women. And our company currently employs five women um yeah as a company as a whole.
00:36:27
Speaker
And I tell you, I mean, some of them are honestly some of the hardest workers we've ever employed. i mean, they could outwork a guy. Two to one. And it's kind of sad to say that. But and and what's nice is I've also found that ladies can can be more naturally detail oriented than some of the guys, which is which for me is huge. I am a detail guy. I want every rock in place. I want every blade of grass in place.
00:36:56
Speaker
you know, we don't leave until it's perfect. And so, you know, can I can get those results with with less um overwatch, typically, um from the women that work for us. And I love that aspect of it. It's wonderful. I mean, if it's just the fact of I need some more strength to help me pick up this rock. I mean, I got guys on the crew, but when I need, I'm like, hey, I want this.
00:37:21
Speaker
If I have to leave, i have to go do bids, but they need to do the detail work. It's like, hey, I want this detailed out. Quite frankly, it's awesome to have a lady on the job site. And don't get me wrong. We have guys that that do that as well. um You know, because again, people are teachable and they know that that's what I want that's what i look for. But I've just found that naturally women, women really take to landscaping quite well, honestly.
00:37:44
Speaker
When men and women work together, it can be pretty impressive. Do you find that when you're landscaping, you'll have certain vibe from if it's all guys doing it and then women come in and they just maybe soften the edges or open up something that you didn't see window to a better view or these plants over be here just don't quite look right next to this rock. They look better over here. You talk about the detail stuff.
00:38:12
Speaker
It's just that masculine and feminine energy just kind of vibing. And do you find like that marries well? Do you see that often? Yes, I would agree with that statement.
00:38:23
Speaker
So 95% of the time when we're installing when we're installing We're just installing what I've already designed and bid and it's on paper and I'm placing the plants and whatever.
00:38:35
Speaker
But when the way our process goes is so we'll set the boulders and we'll set the trees and then we'll set all the other plants. And then we step back and we look at it and I want input. I'm like, I'm not, I don't make every right decision in life. I never have and ever will. And so I, I want everyone to look it be like, what do you guys think?
00:38:53
Speaker
And, I want everybody to take a turn and tell me it looks, you know, and they can tell me it looks good or they can be like, well, what if, what if we pulled those to the front a little bit and actually put this other one behind it?
00:39:05
Speaker
You know, how would that go? And of course you're dealing with sizes and, and scale and textures and all that when you do all those things. But it is, what I have noticed is, Guys versus girls, um girls will typically have more opinions on that, which I'm totally excited about because I want to hear fresh takes because, again, I never and never made every right decision. I don't think Michelangelo or Leonardo or any anybody ever made every right decision in something they created.
00:39:35
Speaker
So um I want that input. And the ladies that have worked for us typically will have a little bit more input. They'll be like, well, what do you think about switching this and this?
00:39:45
Speaker
And think that would look really cool. We'll scoot that over a little bit. Whereas the guys would be like, it looks great. And so, you know, I, I, yeah, I, I find that that is true. There's a, there's a difference there. And, um but, you know, i don't know, just those two differentials work well together though. I would certainly say they do.
00:40:05
Speaker
Well, it sounds like you're wanting it the right way, not your way. And onehood the right way, yeah, that's what the customer is wanting. And so, I mean, if you have multiple people, if, I forget what the phrase is, a rising tide raises all ships kind of thing.
00:40:19
Speaker
Correct. You know, it's a team effort. You can make it work that way and lean into the talents that you have on your team. A hundred percent. Yeah. I think if you don't let the people on your team um express their talents, then um I just, I don't think you're a very good leader.
00:40:35
Speaker
You know, I mean, to be quite honest about it, because no one's ever going to develop any further in life. If you just keep, if you keep your thumb on them, you've got to let them, you've got to let them spread their wings a little bit, make a few mistakes, learn from them and get better.
00:40:51
Speaker
Yeah, I would agree with that 100%. What, you know, we talked earlier about the changes that you've seen as far as like the fertilizer and things of that nature.
Technological Advancements and Industry Trends
00:40:58
Speaker
Have there been any other changes maybe technology or in the equipment that you use or a big industry shift to the, are you using more native plants? Is that like a national thing or kind of, you see anything that's changed like that?
00:41:17
Speaker
Yeah, so many, I would say, know, many shifts in landscaping in general. So I would say just on the design standpoint, I think landscaping is just like anything, you know, people redo their kitchens every, you know, 15, 20 years. And, you know, they remodel their bathrooms about the same. And I mean, there's fads in all of it.
00:41:36
Speaker
You know, back in the day, people had Harvest Gold appliances and now they want stainless steel or black stainless steel or gold. You know, there's things, just things change. And so we've seen the same thing in landscaping, you know, so plants will come in and out of fashion, different, different plant species. And then mulch versus rock.
00:41:56
Speaker
When I first started, mulch was king. i mean, we, we might've rocked two jobs a year and now we rock 95%, if not closer to of our jobs and rarely But I attribute that to people having less time and wanting so more permanency.
00:42:14
Speaker
ah Honestly, they don't they don't want to deal with it. Everybody wants the least maintenance possible. so So, you know, those shifts on the design aspect are one thing. But then also, you know, you mentioned technology and technology has been I tried to make it to.
00:42:31
Speaker
there's a giant trade show in Louisville, Kentucky for our industry every year in the fall. And I try to make it out there every, you know few years, five years, whatever. And I, I had ah had a longer break this last time. had been eight years since I'd been there.
00:42:46
Speaker
And we went we went two years ago. and And the amount of technology that is available out there versus, you know, the last time I attended this conference, eight years before that, is just absolutely incredible. I would say it multiplied four times over.
00:43:03
Speaker
But... we, uh, I try to stay up on trends. I get industry magazines. I see all the new things, but I never have time to read the articles on the new tech. I know it exists, but don't know anything about it type of deal. So I know it's there. I just, it's hard to take the time to study that and incorporate it. But when you're in, uh, something like a trade show and you're walking and you're talking to these people that you're immersed in it. And so, you know, we're introduced to so many things that make our life better and And I typically will come out of every trade show, you know, with, you know, five to six purchases from different things. And that will include technology tools, equipment, whatever. But so technology has just been huge, both on, you know, just operating software to be able to operate your business more efficiently um to um estimating software.
00:43:53
Speaker
And then the design software that I use to give presentations to clients is has just improved. so greatly. um It's all CAD based, but but the the imagery is so much better than it used to be. It's not just circles anymore. You're actually looking at shrubs and you can see what it looks like and it's incredible. and And i have I have this crazy measuring tool that works off of a gyroscope and it hooks into my phone and and I can walk around property and just drop that every, um I think drop it every eight seconds and it maps the whole thing for me and
00:44:26
Speaker
You know, just these kinds of things um that make me more efficient and more accurate are incredible. um And then advances in equipment have been amazing too. And a lot of it is attributed to technology.
00:44:39
Speaker
So, you know, our skid steers, you know, they they now have the capabilities to be run by remote control. and Yeah, agrees. Yeah. and they and you know they And they don't require keys anymore. You punch in computer codes and you can have different operator settings. If I like, if I like the skid steer to have this much sensitivity, I can set that, but then my operations manager might like it with more or less sensitivity than I do. And he can set his operator settings and the the machine will respond completely differently to the two of us. And,
00:45:11
Speaker
And, um, and then tracking, like they, they track their own maintenance. Now they tell us what they need and you can, I don't do this, but they have the capability to send all that information to my phone. And so I can tell if some, if, if I'm not on a job site, I can tell that they're about to run a fuel or that we have an overheat or,
00:45:30
Speaker
you know, or I can just see where that machine GPS wise, you know, just these kinds of things are just incredible. And just also the, the accuracy of equipment with, you know, the use of electric over hydraulic controls, you can get just so precision with the bucket of a skid steer or excavator.
00:45:50
Speaker
Yeah. It's incredible. And versus, you know, old straight hydraulics, hydraulics are incredible. We're going to have to have them forever because, you there'st ah In my opinion, there's nothing better on the face earth because i I dig holes in rocks every day. So I need hydraulics, but...
00:46:05
Speaker
Having that electric over hydraulic control is just a game changer versus what it was 20 years ago. You couldn't make those minute and fine changes. It was a lot rougher to operate. So yeah, rides are better.
00:46:18
Speaker
Technology is better. Trucks are more efficient um and more power. ah So yeah, I mean, everything, there is so many changes. And yeah, sometimes I think about the way I started versus 25 years later now it's It's crazy. But then I also think back to the time when my great-grandfather was alive.
00:46:41
Speaker
you know, he saw, he saw telephones come into, come into homes and electricity be commonplace in homes. And, and now, you know, my, my kids, my kids, my children, they don't know a life without cell phones and iPads and flat TVs and remote controls. They didn't know that we could get up and change the channel and adjust the rabbit ears. You know, they don't know these things. And so it's, it's really fascinating to think to sit back and think about that, all those changes.
00:47:06
Speaker
They don't know a TV that weighs 360 pounds and takes three people to move. They do not. They do not. Absolutely. And that's usually sitting on top of a TV tray. It's about to collapse. You know, the data that you can get that you were just talking about can see it being double-edged sword as far as it's so helpful for staying on top of your maintenance, recognizing if you have a mechanical problem coming down the road, seeing if your equipment is stolen, for example.
00:47:32
Speaker
But then also can see it being like, man, I'm information overload. Like there's just too much of this stuff coming at me. And I just want to go back to pushing a mower. Yeah.
00:47:44
Speaker
Yeah. Maybe not that far, but sitting on a zero turn, maybe let's be more realistic. Yeah. No, i couldn't I couldn't agree with that statement more. So all of that technology is is absolutely incredible. And, you know, I mean, it's not priceless. I mean, of course, there's only so much for you willing to pay for it. but But in some instances, you do feel like it's priceless. But I actually had a conversation with my wife recently um about just this information overload, you know, like with, and this is getting slightly off subject, but with, you know, social media and, and phone tracking and life 360 and track my phone and all these things, we know where everybody is all the time.
00:48:23
Speaker
We know exactly what they're doing. you know, we know exactly what their kids are doing, if they got a home run or not. And, and, and then, you know, you transfer that into work. And just like you said, I, I'm getting all this data sent to my phone on all these equipment, pieces of equipment. And, and my, I've got customers texting me and emailing me and calling me. And, you know, at the end of the day, quite honestly, i just want to take my phone and go throw it in my pond.
00:48:46
Speaker
But, You know, so I couldn't agree more with information overload. I think you really have to be smart about what you do and don't do. So as I mentioned, like I have the capabilities to do all that stuff with my equipment to my phone, but I don't do it because I, you know, I'm fielding 30 plus phone calls a day as it is and probably 25 to 30 texts on top of that, plus trying to work in the field, plus running the business as a whole.
00:49:12
Speaker
And so the last thing and I need is more stuff being thrown at me ah But I do find it amazing that the technology is there. And if I want to, you know, use it, if I needed it, it's at my fingertips.
00:49:25
Speaker
But I do like that I get to choose to use it. But I think everyone needs to be very smart about it how much information they allow in because sometimes it can be too much and it can almost be obsessive.
00:49:39
Speaker
I've, I'll go off on my own little tangent for a second. ah Some of these companies, the audacity of the things that they ask for sometimes is I'm not surprised by much, but I'm signing up for, you know, a grocery card, discount card, and they want my social security numbers. Do not need that.
00:49:58
Speaker
Never. And I, yeah, I just don't understand. mean, but I guess they ask and a lot of people just go, okay, well, I'll take 15 cents off a can of beans. Here's my most personal number about everything about me.
00:50:10
Speaker
I just wish people would stop doing it. But, you know, that's for another podcast. Fair enough. You may have just answered it, but what do you dislike most about your job? Because every job, even the ones that we love, has an aspect or two that we would love to just do away with.
00:50:27
Speaker
Yeah. So, so I'll just be, you know, very open and honest on this answer.
Work-Life Balance and Business Ownership Challenges
00:50:32
Speaker
My least favorite aspect is, is honestly just, well, it's twofold. It's, it's stress and time.
00:50:41
Speaker
One is very high and one is very low. Yeah. So wearing all the hats for a company our size is, is, is beyond, um to be honest with you, you know, I usually put in 80 plus hours a week, a lot of times 90 in the spring. And then in the winter, I'll still be here 65, 70 hours a week.
00:51:06
Speaker
um I start very early in the morning and I get home very late at night. um I have a wife and kids, but luckily my family's very understanding. And when we, when we are together, then we are together.
00:51:17
Speaker
um And, you know, we, I will answer the phone, but I don't take away from them my time with them to, to do other things. But, But honestly, in the beginning, I had to. when out When you're building a business and you have no one else to rely on, you know they i always tell the, I have a lot of young landscape people who come to me and ask me questions and want advice. And I tell them there's 24 hours in a day, so you better get used to using most of them.
00:51:44
Speaker
And so- so I wear, I, I take all the weight of the business. I take all the finances I take, honestly, again, go step further than some might do, but I take all of my employees' successes and failures personally.
00:52:01
Speaker
You know, I want my employees to be, you know, shopping for a new house or get a new truck every, you know, 10 years or whatever, because, you know that means that I've, we're appropriately,
00:52:14
Speaker
um you know, paying them and, and, and providing for them so they can appropriately provide for their family. And that makes me feel good. So but their are successes and failures weigh on my shoulders.
00:52:26
Speaker
I kind of decide whether we're doing the right thing based on how ah their morale and their personal lives. And I know that's not right from a business aspect, but I'm, I'm,
00:52:36
Speaker
we we operate more like ah a team and a family. And so I don't always just incorporate all business here. It's, uh, we care about our employees. We, we, we grow up with their kids. You know, we, we watched them grow up. We, we share in their, um, their successes and the hard times we share and all that. So,
00:52:58
Speaker
there's a lot of weight that goes with all of this. And so stress factor is very difficult and can really bring you down. And I've spent a lot of time in a depressed state.
00:53:08
Speaker
um I, I continue to move on and do my job, but I spent a lot of time in a depressed state and it just took a long time to just wrap my head around um being able to take on all that pressure and be positive about it.
00:53:22
Speaker
So yeah know that was a, that was a long, long road and it's going to continue. Um, I, I don't see that weight coming off of me anytime soon. And, um, and then on the time standpoint, um, I've already kind of touched on it.
00:53:35
Speaker
You know, I tell guys for 24 hours in a day, you know, you need to be using, you know, most of them. When I, when I first started I was the only employee and I was everything, I, I guarantee you there was days I worked 20 hours. Um, there was days I worked 24 hours because I would,
00:53:51
Speaker
do this job all day. And then I would go, I was still needed more income. So I would still run my hay hauling crew all night. And then, uh, I would try to find something ah for breakfast that would, that would, uh, give me a little energy. And I'd go back to, I'd go back to mowing yards the next day. And, uh,
00:54:09
Speaker
ah So, yeah, i could I could do that for about three days and I would just about collapse. but but My goodness. Yeah, it's tough. And um yeah, so those are the two negatives. I mean, I don't mean to be a Debbie Downer, but business ownership is hard. It's not putting on your collared shirt and telling people what to do all day and showing up at 10 and going home at 3. It's not like that. Mm-hmm.
00:54:28
Speaker
You know, I'm here at 530 in the morning and um I typically get home a little after 830 at night. um But that's a normal day. So um there's there's a lot to it. And so, you know, one of my goals in life, as I do mentor a few people who are entrepreneurs and come talk to me and ask me questions, is I do shoot them straight. I'm like, you know, this if you have this glorified idea of what business ownership is,
00:54:54
Speaker
um I've got some bad news for You you better put your seatbelt on because we're going talk.
00:55:00
Speaker
The reality of owning a business, there's so much, there's a lot of people out there that it's almost cheesy and how they say rise and grind, you know, and they're always talking about how they're grinding it out when this is an image that they're portraying on social media about how they're in the thick of it and they're doing all these things, wheeling and dealing whatnot.
00:55:21
Speaker
And then you have the folks that When you drive by an office early in the morning, it's 4.30, you're going to work, and there's a light on already in that company. And most likely, that's the man or the woman that started that thing, and they have everything invested in it.
00:55:36
Speaker
They're the ones that got up, made a cup of coffee, and headed to the office. Or late at night, they're out still working. That is, I've talked to enough people on this podcast that have their own business or started their own business to know That grind is legit.
00:55:54
Speaker
And if you're not careful, it can consume you and take care a lot from you. But if you're willing to stick it out and not give up, you can be successful on the other side. You just have to be willing to go through that.
00:56:08
Speaker
Absolutely. It's a tough part of the journey. And depending on specific person and the industry that they're in and different things, it can last forever.
00:56:20
Speaker
a long time. I mean, mine was, mine was many, many years of that. I just, I just felt like a shell of a person. I gave everything I had to my customers and there just wasn't much left at the end of the day.
00:56:32
Speaker
And I just, I felt like I blinked my eyes and I had to get up and do it again. And I just forced myself to move, but you know, that, but I, I did get through that. Unfortunately, it lasted longer than I wish it would have, but I did get through that. And now, you know,
00:56:48
Speaker
Now I attribute a sore back and a little and some yawning and all the things. But I mean, I look around and like, hey, you know, we're providing for all these people and all these families. And we are also providing to our customers, you know, a great product that they can be proud of and enjoy. And so I find joy in all of it. And so at that point, it it puts worth behind everything that I'm doing and putting it and pouring into this. And so it ah definitely helped pull me out of that, but it took a very long time to do that.
00:57:22
Speaker
There's something to be said for satisfaction and a job well done. And I know that that may come across as cheesy, but there seems to be this mindset from some younger folks nowadays.
00:57:33
Speaker
And I'm starting sound like an old man screaming at the clouds, but you i know, but you almost get the, You get the impression that if it's hard work, then somehow you're being exploited or you're being taken advantage of or you're being punished in some way.
00:57:49
Speaker
But sometimes you just got to roll up your sleeves and do it so you can look yourself in the mirror and know I did a really good job, whatever it is. Absolutely. Absolutely.
00:58:00
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. No, it's from Tim. That's going to be a new, uh, I'm going to give a new side podcast, little shorts, tidbits from Tim. I'll give a little advice. Well, I'm going to, I'm going to keep that one. I like it. I like it. But yeah, I, I, I'm kind of, I'm kind of strange.
00:58:14
Speaker
you know If I have an office day, I could stay here at the office and have to work on a bid that day that is super involved. um I could present it and we get it. And I mean, you know I could have signed a half a million dollar deal that day, but I go home at the end of the day and I don't feel...
00:58:32
Speaker
as good about myself as the days that I'm out raking dirt all day or, you know, building that eight foot tall retaining wall and my back is killing me and my shoulders are killing me. And I feel better at the end of those days than I do, you you know, even if I had this great financial success or whatever, or made this great decision that paid off and like, oh my gosh, this is wonderful for the company.
00:58:55
Speaker
Yeah, I'm kind of weird in that way. That's why i have no idea if and when I'll ever retire because I like working and I find fulfillment in it. So yeah, it's a, again, i don't think there's very many people like me. I kind of hope there's not because it'd be tough on them.
00:59:12
Speaker
So you just mentioned money and I never ask my guests how much they make, but if someone was coming to you and saying, Hey, I'm thinking about following your footsteps. I like what I see in your line of work, but I don't know what to expect as far as pay.
00:59:29
Speaker
Now I know that you've had kind of two different careers. You had the landscaping mowing side of things, and now you're doing the hardscape, uh, landscape architecture type stuff, landscape design. like Do you have any ballpark figures that you could throw out there just to give someone a rough idea?
00:59:45
Speaker
Well, I think, you know, I think the the pay that you can expect from owning businesses and ever evolving thing. And it has everything to do with the market that you're in. So and in in in my business and in the green industry as a whole,
01:00:01
Speaker
I've always said for a long time, if my business was in St. Louis or Kansas City, we would probably turn three, four times the annual revenue that we do now, just because it's a different market and there's more clientele there.
01:00:14
Speaker
um If you drive into Kansas City and St. Louis, you'll see more gas stations that are landscaped and fertilized and all the things. Almost every home is to some level and some are to extreme levels. Whereas in our little pocket of the world, there's beautiful properties, don't get me wrong, but then there's also buildings so many that don't do anything. And, and, and the commercial side and the business side of thing around here, not as many businesses are as concerned with the, the, the appearance of their landscape and their lawn as I feel like they are in other markets. So, you know, people spend money differently here, which, which I'm fine with. I mean, we've found our home here and we love it, but.
01:00:51
Speaker
But so in the beginning, you know, I i think I was honest in earlier on in the podcast. I there was years that I was basically negative. My wife was a school teacher and as as overpaid as they are sarcastically.
01:01:07
Speaker
Yeah, i know that we we we we honestly would not have survived without her income as meager as it was back then. Um, but, uh, so, I mean, I lost money for a few years and then it kind of, kind of hit a break even point for a few years. And then I started making very meek profits.
01:01:28
Speaker
And, you know, I'm also teaching myself. i had no, I didn't come into an existing business that already had pricing schedules and everything. I literally created it from nothing. And so I didn't have pricing strategies. I didn't, I didn't know what my overhead was. I didn't do all those formulas. I didn't do all the things. I just, I went with my gut and sometimes my gut won and sometimes it failed me. yeah,
01:01:51
Speaker
You know, I'd say 10 years in, we, we felt like we actually were becoming a business at that point. And it's like, okay, we're not just going to give this thing up.
01:02:02
Speaker
It's actually doing something, but it took almost 10 years to get there. And. I mean, at that point, you know, I would, I would certainly business owner, you know, you get a few perks.
01:02:13
Speaker
I mean, quite frankly, you know, I mean, the company owns my truck and things like that. So I don't have to take those out of my personal pocket. So I keep my personal income as low as I possibly can. My personal income is, is not high at all that I take home, but I have a few perks that the company takes care of. But if, if you're just paying yourself a wage, you know, then,
01:02:34
Speaker
hopefully within the first five years, you know, you can pay yourself close to 50,000 a year. um it's That's not a huge salary in the year 2025, but, um, but that's, that's the reality of it because there's a lot of expenses and especially you're going to be labor heavy. I was always very light on labor and I just, I just took the brunt of the work on myself.
01:02:54
Speaker
And I think that's only reason I ever survived. But, uh, but, uh, as you, as you continue to grow, um, it does, you know, you do better and better. And as you build those reserves, you feel more and more comfortable about, you know, not only your salary, but your employees' salaries. And so, you know, well, you know, well into it in the, in the 20 year mark, 25 year mark, if, if you've done things right, um, you could, you, yeah, you could be in the six figures for sure in this industry.
Financial Planning and Future Business Goals
01:03:22
Speaker
There are a lot of advantages to owning a business from a tax perspective. You can write off equipment and, you know, like you said, the business can own your truck and things of that nature. I don't know if mileage is something you can write off, but I know you find ah an accountant that is good with small businesses or running a business.
01:03:39
Speaker
They can help you take advantage of a lot of things. So is that a fair statement? Absolutely. Absolutely. We, we, we, like every small business, we play the tax game. We kind of, I, my office manager, usually around October, I asked her to basically do a, a trial run of our taxes for the year. Like as of today, if you, if today was tax day, um kind of look at where we are and, and see where we're at and, and And that gives me a snapshot of, you know, if we're going to have this huge tax burden, okay, maybe it's going to be smarter for us to go, you know, two of our trucks probably could used to be upgraded. So you maybe we're going to do that and, you know, just make those types of decisions that, that rest on my shoulders to make.
01:04:27
Speaker
And so, you know, we, we try to do that. So we all play that game a little bit and it's not just a game. I mean, it's, it's necessity for, for running a business and, uh, But yeah, you have to have the right person helping you on the financial side of it.
01:04:42
Speaker
It's worth the investment because winging it can cost you a lot more money than that person is going to charge you. So absolutely, my advice to anyone is get somebody that truly understands the taxes of a small business and can help you know ease that burden, whichever way that is. Yeah.
01:04:59
Speaker
So, I mean, I realize that our government needs money to to exist, but I don't want it to all be mine.
01:05:08
Speaker
I have never related to a statement more than that one right there. There you go. It does feel like, yeah, Tim is running the government with every s cent that they take from me, but that's for another podcast. I'm not going to get into politics and ruin everybody's evening.
01:05:22
Speaker
What are your future plans? What's the next five, 10 years for you and your company? Well, so, you know, I don't see me stopping anytime soon.
01:05:34
Speaker
You know, in 10 years, that will put me behind the wheel of this for 35 years. I would like to begin thinking about stepping back a little at that point.
01:05:45
Speaker
But so five years from now, the the the goal is that we would we would really have a couple of key people in place, which we have them on staff now. But it's just further training and and and adding knowledge to them of the business to start taking over certain aspects of operations, which is what I do.
01:06:09
Speaker
And so and want to start feeding that in and, um you know, so basically start ah molding my ah replacements.
01:06:20
Speaker
um ah And then at the 10 year mark from now, maybe that's the time where I step back and i I don't ever see myself quitting completely unless I'm just crippled. But I'd like to think that maybe I only need to be here three days a week because right now I'm a six. So it sounds pretty good, but you know, something like that. I see in 10 years, hopefully I'm to the point I could step back and you know, that, um, that time aspect that I said we have none of, hopefully I can gain a little of that back.
01:06:50
Speaker
But, uh, but yeah, I'm hoping the company continues on for many, many, many years. I don't know if we'll sell it or if, uh, someone internally will take over it. I don't know yet, but that's yet to be seen.
01:07:04
Speaker
I don't know you too well, but you strike me as a person that would never retire until they're putting you in a pine box and burying you six foot under you. That's that's the plan as of today, but we'll yeah see what my, ah we'll see.
01:07:17
Speaker
All right. What's your advice if one of your employees makes a mistake um or you make a mistake? I asked this question for a very specific reason with every single guest that I have.
01:07:29
Speaker
I want to know what your approach to failure is, ah either from yourself or an employee, and then what's your process to work your way through it come out on the other side.
01:07:43
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, the first remark is, you know, no one, no one is perfect. And when, when employee makes a mistake and do, you know, do I sometimes get aggravated? Absolutely.
01:07:57
Speaker
But, uh, for me, when I make a mistake, I will be probably four times as aggravated at myself as I would at them. But, uh, So, you know, I completely 100% look at failure as a part of learning to be successful.
01:08:15
Speaker
I don't think anyone is always successful or fully successful. I think everyone makes mistakes. It's just what I think what makes someone successful is how they deal with those mistakes, right?
01:08:27
Speaker
How do they fix it? How do they correct it? If you run from it, you're probably not going to be successful, right? But if you meet it head on and you're honest and you do whatever it takes to fix that and in an ethical, moral way, I think, you know, you're building character, you're building success for the future because, i mean, in 25 years, it's not like we've never made a mistake on a job and had someone bring something up that they might not be completely happy with.
01:08:53
Speaker
But it's how we deal with that. Um, yeah. And it's my job to go above and beyond to make sure that that is correct. And the dollars and cents go out the window at that point.
01:09:04
Speaker
It doesn't matter that, Oh, well we're at our budget on what we were going to spend for your project. If I spend any more to charge you, in my opinion, that goes out the window. If we, if we did not perform on our side, it doesn't matter. We're going to fix it.
01:09:18
Speaker
And so, you know, I think the integrity and how you deal with a situation is paramount. But yeah, I think if you if you look at failure as just failure and and that is your character coming out on the other side, then then you know that person is never going to know what know what it is to be successful because how would we ever know what success feels like if we never failed, right?
01:09:45
Speaker
So... And so if one of my employees makes a mistake, then I i pointed out and I say, okay, I give them an opportunity to figure out how to fix it.
01:09:57
Speaker
I'm like, okay, hey, here's the problem that I see, or here's the mistake that was made. Now we need to come up with a solution. And ah said, so um do you have one or can you come up with one?
01:10:10
Speaker
And I give them the opportunity. And if they can't, then I tell them what my solution is and I tell them why. And I tell them, And then I explain to them, you know, and then i I will go as far, maybe this is too far, but I will go to as far as to explain, okay, so this is, this is how this is affecting the job and the company, right?
01:10:27
Speaker
This is probably going to, this is, this is a three or $400 mistake or whatever. I do explain that to them, not to belittle them, but to educate them. And, you know, I think education is, is the king to, you know, not make those mistakes again. You know, if, if you just tell somebody they did something wrong, they're apt to do it again.
01:10:47
Speaker
if you teach somebody that they did something wrong and how to correct it and why it was wrong, I feel like they're much less apt to make the same mistake twice. And so, yeah, my big deal is just to educate them on it. Um, and I do, I go through the same process in my head. If I make a mistake, one of the biggest that I've made recently is, is last, it was just last year on a, on a, on an estimate. I, I was tired. I'll be honest. Uh, I think it was like almost nine o'clock at night. I was working on, uh, working estimates up here in the office and, uh,
01:11:17
Speaker
There was a job that we needed 14 loads of topsoil on. Well, I, in my incoherent state, um took that as 14 yards of topsoil.
01:11:29
Speaker
And so that bid was off by thousands of dollars in the customer's favor. yeah it It did not cost them near as much as it should have. and But at the end of the day, you know i certainly...
01:11:41
Speaker
was very angry with myself and, but I saw where the mistake was and I know why I made it because I was, I was trying to do too much in one day. So trying to learn from that. And, and then I, I ate the cost.
01:11:53
Speaker
I mean, I did, it was not that client's fault. They accepted the job as I presented it and they got the product that they deserved. I just did not get the profit. So, ah you know, I mean, again, we all make mistakes. It's how you deal with them. I think that matters.
01:12:11
Speaker
Yeah, I think that the response is 90% of it. It's inevitable. We'll all make mistakes, but how are you respond to that. And I think your approach about letting your employees know, look, this is how this is affecting. This is the real world.
01:12:30
Speaker
You have downstream effects for every decision that we make. You made a mistake. It's not in the world, but this is how it affects me, the company, your coworkers, et cetera. Because people need to think beyond themselves and go, if I make a mistake, it's just not me.
01:12:46
Speaker
This affects other people. And, you know, that's, again, for a whole other podcast about, you know, paying attention to what's going on around you and thinking about other people versus just yourself. But you're absolutely right that, know,
01:12:58
Speaker
You
Conclusion and Final Thoughts
01:12:59
Speaker
make a mistake. Okay, now how are we going to move forward past it? so Absolutely. Well, man, you have taken time out of what I now know is an absurdly busy schedule to spend time to talk with me. so Yes, sir.
01:13:15
Speaker
I feel bad that I've kept you this long, but I thank you so much. It was a lot of solid advice and a really good glimpse into what it's like to grow a business from the ground up and the sacrifice it takes.
01:13:27
Speaker
I think your employees are very lucky to have you as their supervisor and I wish you nothing but continued success. How can, if anybody's listening and they want to find your company, how can they contact you?
01:13:39
Speaker
So the simplest way, of course, you know, we touched on the new technology of the world. So, um you know, I could spit out my phone number, but nobody remembers that. But you can Google us. Our website is customcreations417.com.
01:13:53
Speaker
It talks about all the services that we provide and we have ways to contact us on there. You can do an estimate request on there. You can apply for a job, all the different things. Luckily, we have an in-house um person that takes care of all of that for us. And so it's a great website and easy to navigate.
01:14:13
Speaker
Right on. Thank you so much, Kevin. I appreciate it. Yeah. Thank you for the opportunity. I thank you very much.
01:14:21
Speaker
And that wraps up another episode of the Jobs Podcast. Thank you so much for joining me today. Hopefully you found that interesting. As always, I wait until the end of an interview to ask you to like, subscribe, and share.
01:14:32
Speaker
I feel it's important that I earn that support from you. Thanks again, and we will see you on the next one.