Transcript
Speaker: Hey folks, you're listening to the Jobs Podcast. I'm your host, Tim Hendricks. If you are interested in HVAC, we all love our air conditioning and our heating. And the folks that keep us running, and keep us cool or warm, depending on the season, we have one of the experts today. His name is Ben. So welcome, Ben.
Speaker: Thank you. i'm Thank you for having me on the show, Tim. I'm excited to talk about this career. You bet. ah HVAC is something that I've noticed even when the economy is rough, folks are going to cut costs on a lot of places, but their heating or their air conditioning or their ventilation is not an area that they're going to skimp on like plumbing and electrical. So this trade, I think, has a lot of ah possibilities and a lot of profit in it if you're willing to get the training in and step into the line of work.
Speaker: I agree. There's a lot of a lot of things coming up you know in the future too and that's going to be exciting about the industry. so Awesome. i want to I want to dive into that. I certainly want to hear what's on the forefront or in the near future for HVAC. But let's let's start like we always do. Give us a little snapshot about, Ben, where you were born, where you're from, your upbringing, and we'll step into your education from there.
Speaker: Yeah, I i had an interesting childhood. um My parents were great parents. ah We weren't the wealthiest family. we grew up I grew up mostly in upstate New York from three to 13.
Speaker: So i kind of got a little bit of the East Coast. And then when I was 13, they moved to California and I got a little bit of the West Coast. Yeah. So I've been both places. And then when we started our, when my wife and I started our family, we moved to the middle of America. And, and so I've been around the block a little bit. i had, um, I had quite the childhood. ah I struggled a lot in school.
Speaker: my parents were wise enough to, um ah to kind of recognize that I was struggling a lot. ah Back then, there wasn't... i don't know if there was a lot of help back then, but you know After many years and and having my own children, I learned that it was it was I'm dyslexic.
Speaker: And because of that, you know because of having a son and going to all the seminars and the the classes to learn how to teach my son, i've learned that that was...
Speaker: something that I struggled with when I was younger. But my parents were smart enough to kind of pull me out of a bad environment in school and start homeschooling me.
Speaker: ah As I struggled through school, they had some friends that i ah that we went to church with, and they had an HVAC company.
Speaker: um When I refer to HVAC, I mean heating, ah ventilation, and air conditioning. And so... When I...
Speaker: Those friends of mine helped me. ah they They brought me in and I started working with them part time. I worked hard. I enjoyed working it. There was a huge contrast between ah school and work.
Speaker: And so ah that's that's kind of what happened in my life. i My parents loved that I loved going and working. And so that's what got me into the HVAC industry.
Speaker: So you've decided that HVAC is what you're going to do. What types of training do you have to have? And what are the, yeah I mean, assuming you start maybe as an intern or just an entry-level technician or how does that work?
Speaker: Well, there's several ways to get into the industry. It's a lot of people, come in ah through friends, through family.
Speaker: A lot of people just kind of get their first job as ah you know an apprentice and just start doing the work. That's probably the most popular way. I see a lot of people these days going to a trade school first, um and that's a great way to do it as well.
Speaker: I went to a trade school later on in my career, but A lot of people start out just from from scratch, just getting getting an apprenticeship with the company and and starting from the bottom.
Speaker: It's a hard career. In the beginning, ah you're definitely dealing with some extreme temperatures. We tend to be out in those. ah You're under houses and attics on job sites.
Speaker: So in the beginning, that's probably the biggest obstacle. You're always going to be, ah you know, learning and growing. And so I always encourage people to when they first get into the career to stick to it, you know, get get in there, get your hands dirty, start learning it. And there's so much opportunity later on in the industry.
Speaker: And. one warning that I have for people who go to ah trade schools is it it's going it's going to help your path to go through this career faster, but you're probably still going to start ah from scratch.
Speaker: ah You know, i think a lot of people, they come out of trade school, they think they're going to just step right into, you know, maybe a service technician position or a lead or something. And, know, you're really going to end up probably slinging duck work under a house or you know, hooking up equipment, you know, on those cold, hot days. And that's just how the career starts. So whichever path you choose, they're both great paths.
Speaker: But a lot of times, and you know, you just start from the beginning. Your first year or two is going to be hard work. You got to pay your dues by, but that benefits you in the long run because you know,
Speaker: When you get to be the guy that's running the show, you know what needs to be done in every step of the process because you started out new doing it. And you did the grunt work. You did the rough stuff.
Speaker: You earned your stripes, so to speak. And then you're the one that's saying, okay. And you can also recognize that's not done correctly. Here's how you need to do it so you can make sure it's done when you're running the show.
Speaker: Absolutely. And people respect that in this industry. Okay. You're, you're the guys doing the work. They want a leader that's been, that's done that work. and Okay. ah They're, and you're going to understand what those guys are going through. You know, sometimes you get a ah salesman who comes in and, you know they're a good salesman, but they don't know what those guys are going through. And that could be a frustrating situation.
Speaker: So guys really do need, ah ah your your future path is going to be probably some type of leadership role, some type of sales, some type of management, maybe owning a company, maybe working for a giant distributor.
Speaker: And your years of working hard in the beginning our are going to pay off in huge ways. Your line of work, you mentioned it a little bit ago, you're going to be outside when it's hot, you're going to be outside when it's cold.
Speaker: I have had a couple of houses, we're on our second home, and i know that the air conditioning is going to go out when it's 99 degrees outside in July, and i need it now.
Speaker: And the heat is going to go out when it's six degrees in January and I need it now. And that's when you call those folks and they're like, I'm backed up. I i can't be there for three days you know or four days or a week or whatever.
Speaker: So is there a bit of a feast or a famine or is it pretty consistent or is it consistent with the seasonal bulk thrown on top of it? Well, that's a huge part of our industry, um, is, is getting used to the different seasons.
Speaker: We have our busy season. Uh, we actually have 90 days of hell is what we call it. So is that summer or winter or both? It's summer. Yeah. Okay. So, uh, what it? June, July, August is our 90 days of hell.
Speaker: And, um, And then we have a couple seasons, typically spring, fall, you know, that get really slow. so Good companies are really good at managing that.
Speaker: And, you know, sometimes that's why you might see a little bit higher prices in the summer because sometimes that makes up for those slower seasons. and If you're going to buy a system and you can be proactive, you know, you're you're a homeowner, then yeah looking to to replace the system in the spring or fall is always a good idea.
Speaker: um So when you're in this when you're in this industry, expect your pay to fluctuate. You're definitely going to want to go off of an annual budget instead of a month-to-month budget or week-to-week budget.
Speaker: and Okay. And that's never easy for young guys, you know? Sure. The trade school that you talked about, I know that you mentioned that there's a an avenue where you can start off basically brand new as an apprentice and you can learn as you do.
Speaker: I know there's been a big push with Mike Rowe and stuff like that over the last, I don't know, 10, 12 years about trade schools. And I do think that they're a great option because not everybody wants to sit behind a desk. Folks like to work with their hands. And so it's a good avenue to make good money.
Speaker: And you know HVAC, I won't say it's recession-proof, but I think that industry seems a little bit more insulated than, ah say, the ah RV industry, for example, when the economy is rough. Absolutely.
Speaker: But what is trade school? Is there an an average a year and a half, two years? And is trade school something where you come out ready to go, but then you have to actually learn how to to apply?
Speaker: Or do they have a lot of hands-on training when you're in trade school? I went to OTC, which is the Ozark Technical Institute here in Springfield. ah They did a great job of both.
Speaker: ah When you go to trade school, they have giant labs that you get to kind of go and experiment. Really, the big thing is you're going to learn the, and I think this is really good. You're going to learn the the science behind everything that you're doing. That's what I was really surprised with because I had been in heating and air for six or seven years before I went to trade school, I think that's a smart way to do it. I knew I was going to be, this was going to be my career. I knew this is what I was going to do.
Speaker: And I'd already gotten a lot of experience that helped in the classroom. So when you've got a mind like mine, that's huge. You're sitting there, you're looking at the science behind everything that you've learned just through watching people for many years.
Speaker: um And then I just excelled in the lab work because I'd already had some experience doing that. But for most people, you're going to get that classroom experience and then you're going to go to a lab and then you're really going to get to apply what you just learned.
Speaker: And that's that's really good. I'm glad you brought up Mike Rowe, too, because... right Micro is doing an amazing job, ah really bringing a lot of respect ah to this industry and industries like it.
Speaker: And it is a it it really is a ah great career. you will You will have times that, you know...
Speaker: Unfortunately, ah college was pushed, I think, pretty hard for a couple centuries there. and yeah um And that's good because people need to go to college for certain careers. But in this industry, ah you know getting your hands dirty is the key.
Speaker: And Mike Rowe brings so much respect to that, the necessity of it. you know Through COVID-19, we were considered, um you know, a necessary career so we had to go out and continue to work during during the coveted years and that was quite an obstacle so i appreciate people like mike roe doing a wonderful job you know just glorifying the industries and bringing a lot of respect to it and and i think it's a huge encouragement and we need people a lot
Speaker: Yeah. I, I really like what micro does. i think it's micro ro works is his, uh, and I'm not familiar. He doesn't even know who I am, but, um, his, his organization, i I think they do a lot of scholarships for folks that want to get into the trades.
Speaker: Yeah. Where I think Mike Rowe, his timing was good, but he really nailed it with the, I don't think that folks realize how vital these services are.
Speaker: And it's easy to go, well, you don't even have a college degree. Well, man, I'm making more than you on my second year and you've got a four-year degree or even more. So yeah there's nothing wrong with college. Certain jobs, you need it like ah a lawyer or an attorney or a ah doctor, for example.
Speaker: Yeah. There are certain occupations that require an extensive, um, level of training. And then you have other jobs like myself in the fire service, law enforcement, nurses. you know In a couple of years, you can be ready to go and making good money right out of the gate.
Speaker: Plus, not everybody wants to go to college. Not everybody should go to college. It's not the right fit for everyone. And what he's done is highlight the fact that you have options and you're not settling By going to a trade school, you're leaning into your strengths. you're You're doing what's going to make you happy and allow you to earn a living doing it.
Speaker: So he's nailed it on a lot of spots. I really have a lot of respect for what he does. I agree. And I think there's a lot of people that get into this industry who have minds like mine, where we're really good with hands-on stuff and the the book learning and that that type of education, we really need some time before we get to it.
Speaker: And it's nice to feel good about being successful In heating and air, especially for me, getting out there, putting in a system, putting in some duct work and standing back and just knowing that that customer, you know, is happy or my boss is happy or I've accomplished something versus being in school and just struggling to to make good grades.
Speaker: the The interesting thing is later on in my life, I made straight A's when I went to OTC. So it was just a maturing process. And i think there's a lot of guys out there that if they just be patient and they can get into some trade, they're going to have a great future.
Speaker: And all all the the learning, ah learning the communication, learning the... ah marketing side, the sales, the advertising, all that stuff, that can that can come later and you'll do just fine.
Speaker: And you can use your beginning years to really launch you into that. and And I know a lot of guys who now own companies and are doing very well.
Speaker: Some of them have even gone on to sell their company and go start another company and sell that company. And it's very exciting. You get into the business side of it. Well, I don't, what I'm about to ask you, I apologize in advance because it may sound ignorant on the surface. It's just for lack of knowledge. And that's why I'm part of why I'm here. But what I noticed is a lot of guys that are in this line of work, there seems to be a good mix of folks that work for a company like yours.
Speaker: And then you have a lot of guys where they've got a van and they've got a guy that works with them and it's, that's their operation and that's it. And i don't know I don't know what makes someone choose one path versus the other, or is there you start here and then you eventually, the goal is to do this because of x y and Z benefits.
Speaker: i I think most guys in this industry, their their goal is to you know probably be happy and comfortable.
Speaker: um There's some people who are more ambitious, and then there's people who... um There's two types of people that I feel like start a company. there's There's the people who are entrepreneurs and are ambitious and they really want to grow a company.
Speaker: there and then there's And then there's people who probably got frustrated or they want to just be comfortable and they know they can do a good job. They really know the industry as far as technical work.
Speaker: the technical work but maybe not so good at business. And there's a lot of those guys out there, you know, that are, that are doing great. They're doing okay. They're comfortable. Uh, I actually, my first, the first company that I worked for, ah Acacia heating and air in California, that's what it was. And, uh, they're commonly referred to like mom and pop places.
Speaker: Uh, you know, you had a father who started the, the company, um he He kind of made some mistakes with taxes and his daughter had to step in and buy the company.
Speaker: And there was six of us and we did well. All of us were happy. We worked hard. I learned a lot there. That company was so patient with me. So it it helps a lot of people get into the industry.
Speaker: And oftentimes, depending on your, you're yeah that's the beauty of the industry. it You don't have to be one way or another. There's so many different avenues to go. you know and And if you're not an entrepreneur, there's massive salary positions at distributors or with large companies, and you can have a really good career.
Speaker: One of the things you just highlighted there is the the different avenues. Let's talk about areas of specialization in your career. I'm assuming when you come out of trade school, you're probably prepared to work on most of the stuff that you're going to encounter.
Speaker: But do is it regional where, like on the East Coast, they use a lot of boiler systems, radiator systems in the Midwest. We don't seem to use very much of that. ah Radiant heat in the the Rocky Mountains, for example.
Speaker: California, they just need a fan. i mean, that's all they need on the ah for most of the state. But how does how does that kind of play out as far as the the different routes that people take?
Speaker: There's a ton. Just kind of the stuff you mentioned a little bit. When when I came from California to Missouri here, in California, it's AC driven.
Speaker: Out here, it's heat driven. And so in California, I was used to running ductwork and attics. A lot of systems were on the roof. It was a package unit that was up on a curb on the roof.
Speaker: And you would focus dominantly on putting that eight Cold air is heavier. It moves a little slower. So you'd focus on dropping that air in from the ceiling and letting it fall down through the home.
Speaker: And then when I moved out to Missouri, it's all heat driven. Heat's lighter. It moves a little faster. So it's all in a crawl space now underneath the house. um You know, a lot of, a lot of Northern areas have ah systems that are in the basement. There's a lot of basements cause it's just really cold.
Speaker: There's no heat pumps anymore. you get a wide range of different um types of installation. Somebody from California move who's very, very skilled will come to Missouri and really have to kind of check himself and kind of adapt.
Speaker: um And so that's in the beginning of your career, you know, moving around can be very beneficial because you're going to get a wide range of, of different installs.
Speaker: I think, I think the big thing too is moving into the future. if you find that your skills are really good at management or you're really good at being an entrepreneur, um then you're going to find yourself kind of moving in a very different direction.
Speaker: So i think that's pretty neat about our industry. The equipment, i when we built a house about five or six years ago, I remember we came from an old heat pump in our last house that lasted 10.
Speaker: good grief, 20 plus years. It was, I want to say a 10 or a 12 sear heat pump outside. The thing would never die until lightning finally got it. And then I put a 13 sear in because that was, you know, that was the cheapest that I could get at the time. yeah When we built our house, we went with a more energy efficient approach and that the sear that they offered at the time, I think was 21 22 heat pump.
Speaker: Um, it's on an inverter. It doesn't have the just off and on kind of a deal. And so the efficiency of things seems to be the rapid progression in your industry is all about efficiency.
Speaker: Is that, is that pretty much a government driven thing or is that an industry driven thing? both uh okay I would say it leans more towards the government in government there's been a lot of focus on uh you know I think helping power grids and things like that HVAC equipment is easily one of the biggest power pullers um I don't know if it's true now, but I know that about 10 years ago, they said it was probably 80% of your power usage. okay um
Speaker: So that there's been a huge emphasis. well what What I've heard, what kind of happens is the government comes in and it tells the manufacturers, you know, you guys, we need a more efficient system.
Speaker: um We also deal with an oil refrigerants system. That's got a lot of um play with the government. Okay. ah And there's global warming potential.
Speaker: and So all those things, the government comes in and says, we need to make this better. The manufacturers will often say, how do we do that? And they said, we don't know.
Speaker: Figure it out. Yeah. it's our manufacturers are constantly trying to innovate. Um, I, I tend to think sometimes that it might stifle the industry. I think there's a lot of cool, um, technologies coming out.
Speaker: If you did want like, a career i i think space is just just you know to really get out there i think space is going to become a huge part of the future and there's tons of room for uh learning how to work on hvac in space geez and uh you know There's some crazy stuff going on up there, and it's going to play a huge role.
Speaker: And so I think there's some really cool technology that's going to start coming out. And as that technology comes out, we're going to need a lot of people who knows how to deal with that stuff. I think there's a lot of scientists who are focusing a lot on this area, too.
Speaker: You know, we we get back to our homes, our little residential units. Residential units tend to be the last ah a place that the innovation makes it to. Is commercial usually the front line?
Speaker: Absolutely. yeah Okay. All right. In commercial, for instance, on your home, we we might see the largest, a five-ton system. I know that the Greene County Jail just put a 700-ton system on their building.
Speaker: Good grief. It's one system that's controlled through lots of dampers and sensors. There's an entire ah computer and program dedicated to just monitoring and controlling all those.
Speaker: um So when you get into the commercial world, there's an entire universe ah you know of of ideas and innovation and and skills that are needed for that.
Speaker: Is... Is the forefront going to be taking the equipment that we're currently using, whether that's boilers or air heat pumps or whatever, and just improving them ah exponentially? Or is it brand new technology that's just we haven't even heard of yet? Where do you think that's going to go?
Speaker: I think in the and immediate future, we're looking at just improving what we have. ah Heat pumps are kind of ah the big drive right now, but also zoning.
Speaker: I think you're probably hearing a lot about mini splits. ah we yeah We call them ductless systems. ah where you can have an individual air handler in each room that doesn't have ductwork and you can zone each room in your home.
Speaker: I think that's a huge advantage That area is going to improve a lot. um so But I think in the long run, there's a lot of problems with ah you know refrigeration leaking, affecting our ah you know our air. And the new current refrigerant, is a it's they just changed it January 1st.
Speaker: It's a called 454. And it's A2L, which means that it's kind of in the same category as propane. So now we're we're kind of, I think they're trying to to improve things, but I think refrigeration is, there could, I'm hoping that there's an invention that's going to come out that's really going to help us kind of get rid of refrigeration. But as of now, that's the way to go.
Speaker: We'll probably end up using ice cubes again before too much longer. Who knows? I think I've seen something that they with electricity, they can have one side of a plate that pulls.
Speaker: So just to get a little technical here, there's no such thing as coal. ah you know In our industry, we're always dealing with heat. whether we're The movement of heat. I'm sorry.
Speaker: The movement of heat. That's right. Yeah. Okay. So whether we're pulling heat out of a house or we're taking it into the house, we're always dealing with heat. He is, uh, you know, energy moving.
Speaker: And so technically i think they said like, i can't remember the exact number, but it negative 360 molecules quit moving. And, um, that would be technically cold. Yeah.
Speaker: But ah in our industry, we can pull heat out of anything, and heat pumps are getting amazing. Mitsubishi right now has a system that can ah you know that can continue to pull heat out of the air down to negative 13. Jeez.
Speaker: geez And do very it's very good at pulling the heat out of the air down to negative 13. So I think right now that's the big focus is getting away from propane. Now, Trump coming into presidency could change all of that.
Speaker: If fossil fuels start becoming a big thing again and and regulations change, then you could easily see um more emphasis on putting furnaces back in and things like that. But I don't know. i think the furnaces are getting are kind of maxed out on technology. i don't think anything can be maxed out. They can always get better.
Speaker: So, ah you know, there's there's room to grow and I'm excited to see what comes in the future. And there's so many cool scientific things that are involved in our industry.
Speaker: and And as far as for residential homes, um you know we just this year, we're putting out some really amazing, I'm with SS&B Heating and Air, and we partner with Train, and Train's putting out some really cool technology this year. Heat pumps that can go much lower.
Speaker: ah They don't need backup heat. And so you're going to save a lot of money on power consumption. and You know, the unfortunate thing about a lot of change is that the the prices are climbing, but ah hopefully those kind of mellow out and the economy gets a little better so we can afford those systems a little easier.
Speaker: Now, I know that you deal with one specific brand, so I'm not wanting you to, you know, we're not going to get into a brand war here, but yeah there there are a lot of different companies out there.
Speaker: Are they all kind of doing the same thing and moving in the same direction? do Do the manufacturers work well with each other? Is it kind of like Coke and Pepsi where they're bitter rivals and they're just intent on destroying each other?
Speaker: I would say there, I'm not a brand guy. I do think that there's probably five or six brands that are very good brands.
Speaker: um So yeah whichever direction you go, there's one thing that I, you know, the big man. Well, to answer your question, they are, they are rivals, but they work really well together and kind of have to, because a lot of them play the biggest role on deciding what the next refrigerant is or what limits are allowed. And they work with the government on all that stuff, but they certainly compete hard against each other. yeah,
Speaker: That's kind of fun. And, but they have to work together to, you know, work with innovation and things like that. Sure.
Speaker: I would say that if you're, if you're looking at brands, there's a lot of information out there that ah gives you a good idea on what the top brands are.
Speaker: We could see things shake up, especially with, um especially with, different presidents kind of changing things and regulations changing.
Speaker: the The thing is, if Trump has this extreme change, then we might see things shake up. The big race right now is who's going to be all American.
Speaker: um Who's going to be innovative? Who's going to build a good system? And there's a good opportunity for some smaller companies out there to really shine right now.
Speaker: So we'll see what happens in the future. you know Some of these big guys might get knocked off their high horse, but um I think for now, there's some top five top five to 10 companies, and those are always a good bet.
Speaker: I was doing a little bit of research before our interview, just trying to educate myself on the industry. There's a lot to soak up, but there was a, when I was on different forums, just reading posts from ah people in your industry, technicians and whatnot, there was a common theme that I kept running across.
Speaker: And they, they agreed with you that they said there are a handful of companies that you really can't go wrong with any of the big players. For the most part, they all make a pretty decent product and And you should be happy with it.
Speaker: But where the separation occurs is in the install. If you have a company that knows how to put something in correctly and they do right by the customer versus just slapping it together and walking away, you can take really good equipment that will perform poorly if it's not installed right.
Speaker: I agree 100% with that. aye You can have the best equipment out there, pay top dollar for that equipment, and have a guy with some Ozark engineering skills put in so put it in upside down, and you're going to have a lot of trouble.
Speaker: Okay. ah So lot... ah war A big part of the biggest challenge for residential people is finding a company that they can trust.
Speaker: um That tends to come with a little bit higher price tag if they're a really good company. But once you find a company you can trust, stick with them. They're going to steer you right. They're paying attention to what the technology is.
Speaker: They're working closely with manufacturers and the manufacturers provide so much for a good, healthy company. They're going to have regular training for their for their equipment.
Speaker: And there's a lot that goes into it. ah You know, a big thing that I see people make a mistake on, and I'm surprised that some other companies allow this to happen,
Speaker: is to come in and let's say you have a three-ton system and you're struggling in one room and they go, well, let's just put a four-ton on there. Yeah. It's like putting a V8 in a Taurus.
Speaker: You're going to – your air handler, your ductwork, just can't handle that bigger system. And if you think you can just put a bigger system in there, it's not going to work. So you really do have to have a good, healthy company that is not afraid to tell you, no, we don't need to do that.
Speaker: Here's what's going to work best for your home. They should be climbing under your house. They should be getting in your attic. They should be letting you know that here's here it's not just the equipment. We're not just trying to sell you a piece of equipment.
Speaker: You have some duct work over here that's an issue. You know, you might you might need some more insulation in the attic. You might need some doors or windows sealed or upgrade them to a double pane, you know, low low E window.
Speaker: All that stuff plays a huge role in heating and air. And the heating and air company should be skilled at helping coming in and helping you ah know what your home really needs to be comfortable.
Speaker: A lot of us will focus on comfort, not just technology. And that's really what we're doing in this industry. It's about making homeowners comfortable. That involves humidity, air, not just temperatures.
Speaker: ah humidity, um you know ah how tight the home is, how well insulated it is. Are you bringing fresh air in? Is that air clean? A lot of factors go into it. So hiring a company that is good at that is crucial to having a comfortable home.
Speaker: When we were building our ICF house, it's an extremely airtight house and it's extremely efficient insulation wise. And so the company, and I'm going back five or six years, so I apologize, my memory's a little rusty, but I remember I had to fill out a form. It was like a two page form about the R value of your walls. How many windows do you have? The square footage of each room?
Speaker: the, you know, ah insulation in the attic, um things of that nature. And so you fast forward, they did, is it a manual J calculation? Do I have that term right? Yeah, you do.
Speaker: Okay. They did one of those and then they put in a fresh air, an ERG, I believe is what it's called. ERV probably. That's it. That's it. Yeah. And I think every 24 hours, I forget how many times it exchanges the air in the home, but it's real slow just so you don't have the same stale air.
Speaker: And then we had a, thankfully we had a pretty small system because our home is so efficient. Yeah. Yes. There's a lot. You can't just slap it on there and then blow cold or hot air into your house. There's a lot that goes into our modern homes because they're built so tight nowadays.
Speaker: Yeah, that was a huge shift in the industry. i have some remodelers that I've had to have them kind of step back because ah you know they want to take a home that was designed to not be super tight.
Speaker: Back in the day, they didn't want it to be. ah you know The ductwork didn't have insulation under the house in our area. ah Because that we it was heat focused. We knew that heat would come up into the house. We wanted it to.
Speaker: It would dry out the the home. So the big factor back then was moisture, ah you know keeping a home dry, letting air flow through it. And you had to size a system much larger to deal with that.
Speaker: And that that was fine back then. But I think we are getting much tighter specs. we're building these homes ah you know much more efficient and you don't need larger systems, but you better make sure you're bringing fresh air in or you're going to get moisture, you're going to get mildew, you're going to get mold.
Speaker: um And the HVAC company should take, ah definitely doing a manual J is huge. ah We here at SS&B, we do it on every single home, whether it's a change out or whether it's new construction, a large building, no matter what.
Speaker: And so ah Manual J's are very important. Making sure that the ductwork is tight. if If you have a really tight home and you've got ductwork in the attic that's pulling outside air into the home, that's a problem ah with with your returns. you know If your returns are pulling 100 degree air into there, your system is going to struggle.
Speaker: So you have to have tight air ductwork. Yeah. if yourre If your air in your crawl space is, if you're losing air, it can create a negative pressure on that home and you're going to pull air from the weirdest places, which can also bring moisture. Places you don't want to pull it from.
Speaker: Exactly. Yeah. Unfiltered. It's bringing moisture into the home now and that system is just not going to operate correctly. there're There seem to be a lot of ancillary devices that go with the system these days. You've got humidifiers, you have dehumidifiers, you have fresh air ah recirculation. You've got, as opposed to just the unit itself now, they've got the, is it the ultraviolet lights that they put in there to kill off bacteria? I mean, there's just so many more things.
Speaker: But it does add to the comfort of the home. I know we've been looking at getting a humidifier because in the wintertime, we heat with wood supplementally and it dries things out. And I noticed that when we use a humidifier in the wintertime, everybody's more comfortable. And I've even read reports that you the the viruses like the flu and stuff don't transmit as easy when you have a little bit higher humidity level in the home. Yes.
Speaker: Okay. And air purifiers, you know, the the body is technically, I think in school they taught me the the body was comfortable at 75 degrees with 50% humidity.
Speaker: Okay. ah What I've found in my career is that bodies are very different. You don't know what's going on in a body. ah One of the biggest obstacles in our industry is you have a husband and you have a wife.
Speaker: And they're very different bodies. Say no more. You already know that. Yeah. The internal fight over the thermostat. Yes. Well, because comfort is not based only on, on temperature.
Speaker: Uh, humidity plays a massive role in that. Um, clean air plays a huge role in that healthy bodies plays a big role in that. Uh, so that's always a challenge in our industry, but those accessories do make a huge difference. Um,
Speaker: And a lot of times you don't have to have your thermostat as high. if If it's a dry heat, um you're going to want more heat. If you make that a humid heat, it's going to feel hotter to the human body. And you can, you know, with wood heat, it's a little different because I'm sure you're putting some logs in there and it gets really warm. Yeah. But with, ah ah you know, let's say a heat pump, if you if you have a humidifier that's adding to that, you're going to go ahead and drop that temperature maybe a degree or two.
Speaker: That system doesn't have to work as hard. And the opposite for sun, right? If you can pull that humidity out of the air and you have this nice dry cold, then you're going to be able to raise the temp on the thermostat a little bit, and that's going to save you money. You're going to feel much more comfortable.
Speaker: And, ah you know, everybody's happy. So that's the huge challenge in our industry. Is there anything that is, and since we're talking about kind of the ancillary stuff you can include in a system, is there anything new on the forefront that's coming that we could add to that list?
Speaker: Or I don't know what else you could do to air, really. As far as accessories go, um i think I think COVID brought along, you kind of mentioned UV lights. I i think there's a lot of technology that's getting a lot better around filtration, air filtration, um especially in in on our side of just making it permanent to the system.
Speaker: ah you know There's a lot of systems, standalone systems you can buy from Amazon or something like that. But In our industry, the big thing is hey you cleaning that air, keeping it pure, keeping it clean, making sure that you know we have an air scrubber by Ares and it kills germs.
Speaker: you know they They did some tests in California and they swapped doorknobs in a school. Then they added the air scrubber and then they swabbed the doorknobs after it was running for a couple of weeks and they found a significant drop in germs.
Speaker: So that's kind of the big thing lately is adding some type of air purification to the system. make The filters are getting bigger and wider. So installing that in ductwork, keeping your system lasting a lot longer.
Speaker: That's kind of the thing that a lot of systems are lacking these days. Those one inch filters, they do keep the big stuff out, but ah you can get much better filters for not much more. And they're really going to keep that system lasting 20 years. You know, i think.
Speaker: The filtration, when I was a kid, you could buy those fiberglass ones that would, you know, they would catch a bug or a moth or something. But as far as viruses, smells, stuff like that, now you've got these filters that are, I don't know, four to six inches thick or more.
Speaker: They do last a lot longer, but they, it's almost, are we approaching hospital level filtration in our residential homes? Like, a yeah, of thing baby maybe, maybe.
Speaker: i I think there's good reasons for it though. Um, You know, ah for instance, if you take a one inch filter, filtration is tricky because if if we filter too much, for instance, there's a charcoal filter out there. I don't recommend anybody buy those.
Speaker: and It's supposed to help with smells. But what ends up happening is it just stops the airflow from going through your system. If we don't have the proper airflow, we don't have the proper system.
Speaker: So you have to. balance between filtration and the system working the way it's designed to work. There's a tool that we use i'm like ah that measures the airflow across the system. And if we, ah a big thing, problem that we run into all the time is that that filter is just, it's too good.
Speaker: Yeah. Now we're not getting the airflow across the system that we need. So i would say that talk to your heating and air guy and make sure that that filter does match that system ah and that it's meeting the specs that it's supposed to. And if you want to improve it, just make sure you might have to spend a little bit more, but in the long run, it's more than worth it.
Speaker: Let's ah go down the rabbit hole of pay earnings. What, and I know that I always preface this, the context is important. If you live in California, you're going to make more.
Speaker: The cost of living is a lot higher. If you live in the Midwest, like we do, the pay is less. The cost of living is a lot less. So there is a sliding scale there, but yeah what can someone realistically expect to make um when they're first starting out? Maybe let's go with, you just finished trade school and you got your first job.
Speaker: Where are you going to start at? And then is the sky the limit as far as how you how much you can make or where would you know a lot of guys typically land? uh, probably it was zero experience, nothing.
Speaker: ah you know, you haven't been around it. You don't know nothing about it. You're, you're probably going to start at minimum wage. Okay. Um, I remember minimum wage when I was a kid was seven 50. Yeah.
Speaker: yeah Now I think here Missouri, it's $15 an hour. Yeah. Which is quite a jump. But what I will say is if you get in there and you learn quickly,
Speaker: I remember going from $7.50 to about hour in ah in a year or two. and Okay. And so in our industry, it's the same thing. You're going to start around $15 an hour, but you can expect a $5 to $10 raise within the first year or two of getting in there and working hard, especially when we're starving so much for good employees.
Speaker: If you have a good attitude, if you get in there, you work hard, you learn fast, ah there is so much potential in the first year of getting huge raises.
Speaker: raises I was talking to one of our other project managers here the other day. He started in California as well. And he got a $5 raise within his first six months. So it kind of shows you if we find a guy that we really like who does really well, and you know then to he's gonna We're going to treat them right in the industry.
Speaker: And they're coveted people. So if somebody is not treating you right, then you can probably talk to ah another company in the area and they're going to happily hire you.
Speaker: Right on. Yeah. So if you if you start, you've you've gotten into a little bit, you move on. Let's say that you want to start your own thing. I'm going to buy a van or a truck.
Speaker: I'm to start my own business. I know there's a lot of expense that goes along with business insurance and and all the stuff that we typically think of when you talk about running your own business, all the expenses.
Speaker: But Is there a ah general you're probably going to make around this much if you're like a one man operation, so to speak? Um, it's, it's broad.
Speaker: Uh, it's broad. One, one thing that happens a lot is people who, um, start their own company technically are probably very good at, uh, a little bit of knowing how to put a system in, uh, servicing equipment, things like that.
Speaker: I tried to start my own company about seven or eight years ago. And the obstacle that I ran into was, um I knew a lot about heating and air. I didn't know a lot about business.
Speaker: Uh, in our industry, ah ah and then And then the other side of that is in our industry, there's a lot of business people who are constantly looking to get into heating and air or some type of service company.
Speaker: It's a very coveted thing. um I actually heard one time an owner was approached and they were talking. He was approached by somebody.
Speaker: who was asking to buy the company. And this particular person who was buying the company had made lots of money in stock market. And the owner of the HVAC company asked him, well, what are you going to do you know if the stock crashed or something? He said, well, that's what I'm doing. I'm buying service companies.
Speaker: So there's a lot of very wealthy people that are that are constantly trying to get into the service trade. And it creates a really cool dynamic in the heating and air world where if you can be a guy who gets out there and in five years, five to 10 years builds a good little company that's making some good money, you're probably going to make some really, you're you're going to get some really good offers to buy that company quickly.
Speaker: And you'll have a choice. You'll probably have people competing. So. getting Getting back to your question, I think if you're going to start out with just a guy in a truck, you're probably going to struggle at first. You're going to um you know have to deal with some really hard obstacles like clientele, staying busy.
Speaker: um You're not going to make a lot of money at first. You might pay yourself like ah kind of a ah measly salary. And of maybe $50,000 to $100,000. And then,
Speaker: um you know, and sometimes that might even be less because your company struggled that year. But if you can persevere through and get through five years to 10 years, ah two things tend to happen. you You become a very successful businessman and you're happy. You love running that company or you can sell it and retire.
Speaker: Hmm. and Okay. Okay. The business side of things, do you think that that's... Because a lot of guys, I would assume, that get into HVAC are mechanical.
Speaker: They want to work with their hands. They like problem solving. They like turning wrenches, so to speak. or you know That's the same kind of guys are mechanics, electricians and stuff. They like the the mechanical stuff.
Speaker: Do you find that a lot of them either overlook or or don't account for the business side of things? Or is that... Nowadays, trade school, do they typically train at all of it? ah Trade school definitely doesn't train on it.
Speaker: um Okay. Yeah. Trade school is going to focus a lot on, you know, some, some qualities that will help you in business. Uh, for sure. It's going to teach you, I think I had to take a public speaking, um, which helped a lot with service work and talking to customers about equipment, things like that.
Speaker: Uh, so your trade school is going to help you a lot on getting your foot in the door with business, but, um, I would recommend a business um career if you wanted to get into heating and air. If you find that you really like it and you're feeling like you're an entrepreneur, ah that you you might want to own a company. I kind of always had a dream of that my whole life.
Speaker: And I found myself to be quite happy working for people. you After I tried, you kind of recognize... the mind that these these business owners have and and how hard it is. And you know you really admire them and respect them a lot more after that.
Speaker: But if you did find that you're really enjoying the business side of it, i would and for sure, you know ah Work hard in the day, in the evening, go get you know go learn about business.
Speaker: um And I think you're going to do really well. you're gonna And we're constantly looking for good project managers. You don't even have to go to school, I don't think. I think a lot of owners actually haven't gone to school in the heating and air world lot.
Speaker: a lot have um just worked their way up through the ranks manufacturers are a huge help here ah they want to see their mechanical companies succeed because they're gonna sell more product that way yeah so if you can start a company and get in with a a manufacturer that you're and build a good relationship with them they're going to provide classes they're going to have ah advice on pricing they're gonna um help with advertising.
Speaker: And so there's a lot of cool help there. But I would say it a lot of people in our industry, unfortunately, don't do that.
Speaker: They get maybe mad at a company they're with. They go out and say, well, I'm just going to do it myself. And they find out really fast. And the reason I know this is because this is what happened to me. ah You find out real fast. It's an entirely different world.
Speaker: And but it's still part, you know, I still have this mind for there's a cool book. um He talks about entrepreneurship doesn't have to necessarily mean that you're running your own company.
Speaker: all companies are looking for entrepreneur spirits. And if you have an entrepreneur spirit, there's a good chance that you could fit with a company and start some branch or some division for that company.
Speaker: You're going to partner with people, which is a huge part of entrepreneur spirit, and you'll thrive. You'll thrive in that area. You'll build a great department for that company, and you're going to fulfill that entrepreneur spirit. So there's multiple paths to take.
Speaker: A good company that has an employee that is constantly looking for ways to innovate and improve and offer more, that translates into profit, that translates into diverse the diversification of all your services.
Speaker: And so, you know, I think a good boss would like to have people that are always looking for ways to improve things as opposed to just a drone. that comes in and does the minimum and then they go home.
Speaker: um Maybe somebody is looking for that, but you had mentioned something a second ago and it it made me kind of leap forward to the question. There is, well, before I ask the question, there's a benefit to owning your own business.
Speaker: There also is a benefit to just being a W2 employee because you don't have the headache of all of the stuff that goes along with running your business. And it takes certain people just gravitate towards one side or the other. It's not wrongish. They're just different.
Speaker: Yes. What would you say in your current job that you like most about your job? And then what is in your current job, one aspect that you wish you could do away with?
Speaker: to To my benefit, um one of the things that I love is i enjoy people. I enjoy talking to people. i enjoy helping people with problems that they have. And so one of the most rewarding things in my career has always been, um you know, there's something special about somebody who's hot and you come in and you solve their problem and the the the happiness and the relief on their face is probably one of the most rewarding things.
Speaker: Yeah. um So my favorite part of the industry has always been really helping people with their problems and just coming to a solution and getting the gratification of seeing somebody happy and satisfied.
Speaker: And so working with people has been probably the most rewarding thing. There's an there's an instant gratification, isn't there? Where... You show up, it's 100 degrees outside, they're burning up, and by the time you leave, the AC is on, there's smile on their face, and you get to see the product of your work right there.
Speaker: Yes. Yeah. That's a huge, huge part for me. One of the things that's probably... It's two-sided because now I'm more on the business side of of things.
Speaker: um On the work side of things, ah the the weather has always been hard part. um Conditions, insulation. I'm not a big fan of insulation. It's ah you you're never happy when, when you've been rolling in insulation all day. Yeah, it's true. Yeah.
Speaker: ah So, so the conditions are the hardest part I would say in in the career, in the industry. But um if, if you're tough, you can get through that, then you're going to be, you're going to have more than enough reward for and satisfaction in your career.
Speaker: And in the business side of it, it's always a challenge to, um That's a good question. I would say the hard part is um probably...
Speaker: dealing with the mistakes or unsatisfied customers for me. It would be um having to deal with um a mistake or something that happened and i don't mind problem solving.
Speaker: It tends to be the frustration of a customer that maybe wasn't satisfied or happy. And that's always a challenge in our industry.
Speaker: yeah You probably have to, over time, learn to accept that there's going to be a ah small percentage of people that are never going to be happy no matter what you do. And I've been over backwards to help you. I've rectified every wrong and you're still upset. I don't know what to do with you.
Speaker: But I would think most reasonable folks... I think if you just communicate well, that's one thing I've learned is that people can people can appreciate things will sometimes go wrong. it's when It's how it's handled is where the success or the problems usually manifest.
Speaker: That's what separates the good companies from the bad companies. Okay. I can't tell you how many times I've had a customer say, I called this company and they didn't even answer the phone.
Speaker: Like, ah you know, you've already been out here, you've helped us. And then they just called me to try to help me. Or, you know, we, we, ah there's ah one of the downsides in our industry is there's, there's greed.
Speaker: And unfortunately, some people who don't have ah morals will take advantage of people that they can take advantage of. yeah you know I think there are some news companies that have run like little sting operations on heating and air companies.
Speaker: I would be mortified to be in the position that some of these people but get themselves into. yeah And unfortunately in our industry, there's a lot of companies that will take advantage of people.
Speaker: And that's an obstacle that we have to overcome every day. But those people that ah call us after somebody tried to take advantage of them and we come and we solve that problem, you find people that are that are just so thankful to find a company that that didn't take advantage of them, that communicated well, they weren't greedy.
Speaker: They were happy to ah be there to just kind of help them out through that difficult time. And um you know the communication is easily the biggest part of that.
Speaker: Let's parlay that into ah question that I always ask is what types of soft skills do you find the successful people in your industry have? And I'm going to preface this with an opinion of my own as someone who built a home, ah you know, right when COVID was taking off is when I was finishing. So I got really lucky in the timing.
Speaker: and but I was the general contractor for my house. And that was the first time that I did this. And so I dealt with the vast majority of the contractors and I can't, well, yeah. And it it gave me a whole appreciation for the GCs that are out there because you are herding cats and it's expensive and it's just a headache.
Speaker: And it starts early morning till late at night. The phone is just going off, but there was one thing that I saw the successful companies from the unsuccessful companies, there was one thing that stood out to me and that is showing up on time.
Speaker: I can't tell you how many times I had a guy say, I'll be there at eight o'clock tomorrow morning. I'll be there at nine o'clock tomorrow morning. And it's I'm looking at my watch and it's lunchtime.
Speaker: And I've texted him saying, hey, ah you were supposed to be here at eight o'clock this morning, nine o'clock. Yep, just leaving. And then they show up at, well, we had to get lunch. And then they show up after lunch and then they want to leave early.
Speaker: And that right there was the one thing that just drove me absolutely insane. If you say you're going to be somewhere on top at a certain time, you need to be there or call the customer and let them know.
Speaker: And then for some reason their project is a week behind or something. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. I think, um, I think for sure being on time, knowing time management is massive, massive in our industry and you run into situations all the time. Weather can be a factor.
Speaker: Sure. Um, you've got a full schedule. if If you're not managing your time, you're going to get behind and you're going to hurt your customers. And that's, that's bad. Um, I would say having an energy like, ah I can get this done. i will get this done.
Speaker: ah we We ran into a problem, but you know what? We've got a solution for you. Having that energy and that get it done attitude is really big.
Speaker: I think if you're constantly running into problems and throwing your hands in the air, you're going to struggle to to climb the ladder in the HVAC industry. Yeah. We're looking for people who have that energy.
Speaker: um i would also say communication. ah We kind of already touched on that, but yeah you know having having the mind to say, ah care about you. I'm thinking about you and I want you to know that. So I'm keeping you up to date. I'm letting you know where we're at. i'm just it It doesn't have to be much sometimes. It's the smallest thing.
Speaker: Yeah, a simple text or a phone call is all that's needed a lot of time to go. We ran into something that's beyond our control. i haven't forgotten about you, but I am going to be delayed as opposed to just silence. Yep.
Speaker: That's maddening when you're looking at your watch waiting, wondering what's going on. A good demeanor yeah is big. um There's a lot. There's a lot of good ah good skills to learn other than just the technical aspect.
Speaker: And it can really take you far in life. And I don't think that's just HVAC or service work. I think that's anywhere. It's probably the same in a lot of places. Right. Yeah. how How do you advise folks if they're new in your industry and they make a mistake?
Speaker: I say at every podcast, we're all human. We all make mistakes at some point. What is your advice on when someone that works for you or you make a mistake?
Speaker: How do you proceed forward? ah two Two things. ah Be honest. uh take accountability be honest and then have a solution um if if you're brushing under the rug that's that can't be done yes it's gonna come out people are gonna find out so just be honest uh take accountability for it and then have a solution have a way to fix i remember my first one one of my first
Speaker: jobs. ah we were I was actually i was actually did remodeling for a little while, ah and we were putting sheetrock up, and I covered a ah plug, an outlet.
Speaker: And instead of you know to my shame, instead of saying something about it, I just kept moving on. And i don't remember what through went through my mind. I was probably 17, 18 years old.
Speaker: And my boss came by. He said, you missed this. And you know he said, if you miss it or you mess up a piece of sheetrock, I really don't care. this Just fix it. you don't Make it right.
Speaker: And I think that advice is carried throughout my entire life. Like, yep, I made this mistake, but I'm going to make it right. And that was huge in my career. If you weren't in your first, if you weren't in this career right now, was there another one that you kind of thought when you were younger, you you may you know have some interest in or are you in your lane and and this is where you want to be?
Speaker: Yeah, there was a few times I tried to run away from heating and air. But you see the grass is greener on the other side, and it kind always pulled me back. But I easily could have... i easily could... I think i i so I sold myself short when I was younger.
Speaker: And i think I could have... stop for the stars a little more and i would i would have loved to be in some type of engineering place um i think my schooling kind of really discouraged me from a lot of things and then later on in my life uh when i had a lot more skill i recognized that school wasn't as bad as i thought it was especially college and um So i I could have really enjoyed engineering, ah you know probably more like custom engineering, like designing custom builds.
Speaker: I worked for one of my customers one time was a manufacturing shop, and they were building a pizza oven that was on a mobile cart for a baseball player who wanted to start selling pizza at baseball arenas.
Speaker: Hmm. And i was picking this up or I was, I was there and they were talking about what kind of engineering went into this so that the rock didn't break up as it was going down the road.
Speaker: And I was just fascinated. And I, and ever since then, i always thought, yeah I really would have enjoyed getting into some, you know custom manufacturing or something like that. Hmm.
Speaker: That is, that's a unique, uh, niche business right there. A mobile pizza. So, and that's what they did was niche, uh, building engineering, designing for people.
Speaker: So what's what's next for for Ben? where Where are you going? What are you doing? What's the what's the the next step in your career? I think ah the next goal is probably a general manager um partnership with an owner. Something like that is probably my future.
Speaker: And you know I'm excited. I'm excited for it. I've i've enjoyed you know building on the foundation of HVAC and now getting into the business side of things. And I'm excited to see, I'm excited to build some heating and air companies and grow them. And and that's probably my future.
Speaker: I can hear you smiling over here when you talk about growing businesses. You really get into that, don't you? i do. Yeah. Right on. I do. since my Since my failure in in in starting a business, I've kind of ah really...
Speaker: And you know the amazing thing is I just read a lot of books. I don't read. i listen to a lot of books. I do read. But I listen to a lot of books on Audible. ah you know i' I go through a book probably every couple months, month to two months, and you know learn so much from it. And then I get to come to work and apply it and and practice it and see how I can apply it. And learning leadership and inspiring people and influencing people, it's just where I'm at in my life.
Speaker: Plus, I have teenagers. And that's ah that's helped a lot there. Yeah, that teaches you a lot of things. But you could also, instead of books, you could listen to a podcast. I have one I would recommend that you that you might want to listen to. but I agree.
Speaker: i have been listening to podcasts. and Right on. i I've been listening to quite a few of yours. I really enjoyed the podcast. I think you had a podcast about an electric company, a solar.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. That was Derek. It was wonderful learning about boat docks and yeah how he got into that was very interesting. That's the thing. There's so many options out there for making money and and being happy in a career. So that's kind of yeah what keeps me going. But hey, thanks a lot for your time. i learned ah an awful lot today. And I think somebody who is entertaining the idea of HVAC, this is the podcast for them.
Speaker: If someone wanted to find you for your company services, where can they locate you? They can contact me ah multiple ways with SSMB. They can call our main number, which is 417-866-0990 and ask for Ben Ladd.
Speaker: Or they can email me at bladd at ssbhc.com. All right. Thanks a lot, Ben. I really appreciate your time.
Speaker: Thank you, Tim. was wonderful.
Speaker: And that wraps up another episode of the Jobs Podcast. Thank you so much for joining me today. Hopefully you found that interesting. As always, I wait until the end of an interview to ask you to like, subscribe, and share.
Speaker: I feel it's important that I earn that support from you. Thanks again, and we will see you on the next one.
