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Casey - Cyber Security Expert
52 Plays1 month ago
With everything being digital these days, the field of cyber. and physical security is ripe for a career. AI, firewalls, as well as smoke, hazmat and threat detection is not only exciting and pays well, it's not as difficult to get into as you may initially think. Casey lays out how you can get great training and what types of soft skills will allow you to excel in this vital occupation.
Casey can be found HERE and his company HERE.*
If you would like to support the channel, you can do so HERE. Thanks!
*The Jobs Podcast has no affiliation with Secure Passage, it's employees, affiliates or subsidiaries.
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Transcript
Introduction and Guest Welcome
00:00:00
Speaker
Hey folks, you're listening to the Jobs Podcast. I'm your host, Tim Hendricks. Your time is valuable, so I hate to waste it. Let's get right to the interview. Today we have Casey with us. Casey is an expert on cybersecurity as well as physical security.
00:00:14
Speaker
So this is going to be a pretty interesting interview. Casey, welcome to the show. Hey, thanks, man.
Casey's Early Life and Military Career
00:00:21
Speaker
So Casey, give us a little snapshot about where you were born, where you're from, your early kind of life and and early influences, and we'll jump into your education after that.
00:00:31
Speaker
Will do. You know, you mentioned cybersecurity and the connotation is immediately like, oh man, what a nerd. But it's a little more interesting than that for me. So I was born here in Southwest Missouri um and I live back here now.
00:00:46
Speaker
I didn't live here for nearly a decade while i was in the service. But, you know, growing up a rural kid, um you do everything, right? You do what you're told. So yeah that means you're you're doing farm work, you're helping on construction sites,
00:01:00
Speaker
building fence, you know, all kinds of things. Matter of fact, my, my first real job was at the neighbor's dairy farm. Um, so I was 13 or so, I think, and I want, like, I wanted to buy a deer rifle.
00:01:13
Speaker
So yeah that's why I started working for the neighbor. Um, uh, that kind of jumped into, I took some weekend jobs at the local sale barn. I live in an agriculture community, so I hauled a lot of hay.
00:01:26
Speaker
um, Then I joined the service and that kind of set me on the trajectory that got me where I am now. Of all the things the Marine Corps could do to a guy, kind of turned me into a nerd.
00:01:40
Speaker
It's usually the opposite, isn't it? Uh-huh. Yeah. Well, thank you for your service, by the way. always i work with some Marines and boy, they love to make fun of the other branches in the military. They they have an edge, I think, to everybody.
00:01:54
Speaker
Yeah, but nobody else can, right? It's like right we can make fun of each other. Yes. But you better better not be just some regular Billy Bob out there making fun of the military because we're we're one team, one fight.
00:02:08
Speaker
Yeah, the only thing the only thing coming out of my mouth when i I sit at a breakfast table at the firehouse with a guy from the Air Force, well, they all pick on the Air Force, but the Army, the Navy, and the Marine Corps, I just sit back and keep my mouth shut, but I laugh because they're vicious, but it's usually pretty fun to observe.
00:02:25
Speaker
Yeah. It gets pretty colorful. Yeah.
Transition to Cybersecurity
00:02:28
Speaker
So you're in the Marine Corps. What did you start? Did you have your first taste of it stuff or cybersecurity in the military?
00:02:36
Speaker
Yeah, I did. So ah went to MEPS and scored well on the ASVAB. The recruiter said i could pick my job. I had no clue what that means. Matter of fact, that's what I said to him. I was like, I don't even know what's available.
00:02:50
Speaker
And, uh, I just asked, well, what takes the highest score to get into? And he said, Intel. And I said, cool, sounds sounds fun. Let's do that. um Having, you know, obviously no knowledge of what that means or what the possibilities are.
00:03:06
Speaker
There are multiple disciplines when you look at the intelligence field. And I i got a slot in what's called signals intelligence. And it's The short version is SIGINT, S-I-G-I-N-T. Everything in the military is an acronym, right? So I got into SIGINT and my MOS school was six months long down in Florida.
00:03:29
Speaker
And that that's where I got into tech, really. So i was studying all about radio frequency theory, um wave propagation, antenna construction, how to use um an oscilloscope.
00:03:44
Speaker
It's called an O-scope. So I can see the ah RF spectrum in digital form and find signals and decode them, find messages, et cetera. Over time that developed into a cyber defense role, which you know takes it up a notch in the nerd realm.
00:04:02
Speaker
So you know my about the first half of my enlistment, I was active duty for eight years. So roughly the first half, I was a SIGINT guy. I went to Iraq twice doing tactical signals intelligence And then ah in the latter half, I was in cyber defense at a ah ah strategic site, um not deploying from there. So I could have volunteered, but the Marines kept all those slots full. So I had already been a couple of times. We had a bunch of junior guys that were chomping at the bit to go. So I wasn't trying to get in front of them.
00:04:32
Speaker
When you were in Iraq, were you the signals that you were dealing with was the were these communications? Yeah. on our side or the opposite side, the enemy side, IED signals or all of the above?
00:04:46
Speaker
ah The intent of my role was to gather foreign intelligence. So yeah yeah enemy signals. And that that means a lot of things. There are still aspects of that part of my career that I can't talk about. Like once you've had a security clearance and been read in,
00:05:06
Speaker
take that oath. um That's a lifetime commitment. So it was weird for a long time. i' would come home and my wife would be like, well how was work? And I'm like, good. Yeah. And that's it. Like, I can't talk about any of it. So was that, was that difficult for your wife to adjust to where you couldn't really have that conversation that a lot of people have about their day and about, you know, the office complaints and whatnot?
00:05:33
Speaker
Yes and no. So there's still all the regular old Marine Corps shenanigans going on. Plenty to talk about. But when comes to like what I was doing as a profession, couldn't talk about any of that.
00:05:45
Speaker
um But it didn't really impact any ability to talk about.
Military to Civilian Life
00:05:51
Speaker
yeah And, you know, we were young, man. We got married when we were 19. Yeah. um still married today and easily we'll call that the crowning achievement of my life that we still like each other and are still married. Um, probably had a lot of reasons not to be, but, um, when you move away as young people, 19, 20 years old, 21, well, we were, we were 21 when we moved to California.
00:06:17
Speaker
Um, and, and the people that I worked with, you know, them and their wives, they just become our family. So, there is a There is a bond that forms with people. just you know You'll meet perfect strangers that become, there's that slice in your life where you went through something with them that nobody else could understand or experience.
00:06:39
Speaker
And there's a bond there that's just, it's probably close to unbreakable, isn't it? A hundred percent. I like the way you put that, like a slice of life where there were people involved in my life that I'll never forget. i still talk to them.
00:06:52
Speaker
you know It's been
00:06:55
Speaker
18, 17, 18 years ago, 20 years ago. Hell, I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. 15 to 20 years. um And like, I still have these guys' cell phone numbers and chit chat once in a while.
00:07:06
Speaker
So. Uh, yeah, you have those friends, you have those friends where you, you don't talk to them for a long time. And then when you finally connect, you just pick up where you left off. It's like, there wasn't that big gap in time. I've got a couple of friends like that.
00:07:19
Speaker
And that's a unique kind of friendship where you felt like you just talked to them last week, but it's been a year, two, three or more. Yeah, a hundred percent. And it's, and today it's like, um,
00:07:33
Speaker
I'm thinking of a buddy of mine that I haven't talked to in a little while, but I saw on Facebook he got married. So it's we see things going on in each other's lives. And then when you get a chance to catch up, it's like, man, you you got married. You did this and that. and when here there it's But it it feels like you never missed a beat.
00:07:52
Speaker
Mm-hmm. So your training that you got in the military, how long does, let's say that you you've gotten through boot camp, you're kind of getting into what your role is going to be in the Marine Corps.
00:08:05
Speaker
How long does that training typically take and how would that translate into the the non-military world to get that kind of training or does it translate?
00:08:18
Speaker
It does, but it takes work and that's what I had to figure out. So okay my training was um longer than most. So when I enlisted, I had to go in on my first contract on five years active duty because of the length of my and MOS school.
00:08:35
Speaker
Normally it's four years because MOS schools aren't aren't as long as that. But that job was pretty specific.
00:08:46
Speaker
And to be able to do the things I was doing that relate to my my deployments in like the first half of my career, I almost exclusively would have to have gone to some other government agency when I got out or a law enforcement agency to be able to do the things that i knew how to do. Okay.
00:09:07
Speaker
ah The latter half of the career, so I went to another MOS school. So i but I had two MOSs when I was in. um That one focused on the cyber defense things, much, much easier to translate to civilian employment.
00:09:24
Speaker
Even so, dude, I was active duty for eight years. It took me a minute to figure out who the hell is this character that's not Sergeant Rash anymore. Right. Right. yeah Like that. And I didn't think it was a big deal at the time, but I've been out longer than I was in now. And I look back at those early years after getting out and I'm like, man, I had no clue who I was for a hot minute.
00:09:46
Speaker
that I want to dive into what you just mentioned right there. For anybody that's listening that's transitioning from ah chunk of their life in the military to then the private sector, what advice can you give – to make that transition because you're coming from a structured regimented, everything is just this way and we don't question authority and that's just kind of how it is and go here, here, here. And there are repercussions to the private sector, which is sometimes the exact opposite.
00:10:21
Speaker
what ah What's that, trend what's that transition like and what advice can you give to somebody who's about to make It, it yeah It's different for everybody. and In some ways, it was easier for me than others. And in some ways, it might have been a little harder.
00:10:35
Speaker
um it was easier in that I had learned things and had skills that did apply to civilian employment. And it has you know worked in my favor in that regard.
00:10:47
Speaker
what i The advice I would give is um when a guy leaves the military, guy or gal, when a person leaves the military, what you're leaving is a fairly significant level of accountability.
00:11:00
Speaker
Anybody getting out needs to needs to find that system for them. you know ah a small group of vets right is gonna be the best place for them to land. Don't rely on the VA.
00:11:12
Speaker
I'm not trying to just talk trash about that, but they're not gonna give you the support you need. You need accountability with people that kind of have similar similar experiences. right That is the best thing is to have one or two, maybe three close vet friends that it's like, hey, we're going to continue to meet at the gym for PT or ah do something together every once in a while. Somebody to talk to about what's going on at work and how to deal with it um in a non-military way. So that's that's probably the biggest piece of advice is like you need a small group that is going to help hold you accountable.
00:11:56
Speaker
Those small groups are going to provide you with some familiarity and consistency as you slowly kind of wean yourself off of the military and move into the private sector.
00:12:08
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. yeah Okay. and it's And a lot of people will talk about like, i don't I don't know what my purpose is anymore or don't know what direction to go, don't know who I am. I've been through all those things, but when you chase all of those threads to the root, it's it's accountability.
00:12:26
Speaker
So okay and when you get out, like all accountability is gone unless you just have somebody that's going to do it with you. What was your next step?
00:12:37
Speaker
You've, you've made that transition. You've kind of stumbled around and figured out, okay, who is Casey? That, that was Marine Corps Casey. Now I'm private sector Casey. What is my next step in life?
00:12:52
Speaker
Well, There was, uh, my wife and I, when we, so I could have stayed where I was, I could have gone to defense contracting. ah had options, but we wanted to move back to, our, where our roots are in Southwest Missouri.
00:13:07
Speaker
So that was, that was a complete leap of faith to say, i have no idea how to translate anything that I know how to do to an industry or market that has a presence in ah predominantly rural area.
00:13:22
Speaker
Um, so But we just did it. We wanted to be back close to family and living in the country. So that's what we did. We lived with her parents for eight months while we sorted things out.
00:13:33
Speaker
get Finding employment, like I kind of knew some things that I wanted to lean towards, but it definitely got to a point where ah there is no there is no such thing as highest bidder wins.
00:13:46
Speaker
It's just first bidder wins, right? I got to work. I got to support my family.
Adapting Military Skills to Civilian Roles
00:13:51
Speaker
So yeah um that was a little stressful at that time. And looking back, um I didn't play any cards wrong, I guess.
00:14:02
Speaker
I just didn't know what cards I had. So getting it took me a good couple of years to really figure out how to translate my experiences to civilian employment.
00:14:14
Speaker
The company basically builds software solutions for banks and credit unions, but I was a network security guy. So like firewalls, IPS, DDoS mitigation.
00:14:25
Speaker
When i I got that interview through a personal contact in the area and that company reached out to me and said, Hey, so-and-so referred you go online and apply for this job opening.
00:14:39
Speaker
So while I'm on the phone, I just pull it up online. And i I told the lady on the phone, I was like, hey, just so you know, like, I can't do any of that. hi It's cool. It's interesting. It draws me in. But like, I, the way this job description reads, I'm probably not your guy.
00:14:58
Speaker
And she said, just apply, you'll you'll interview with so and so. And when I went to that interview, we're this big, nice facility, right? Just super, very professional looking place. And we're walking into this conference room ah but before we even sat down. The guy's name was Rich. I was like, Rich, look, man, if you need an engineer to hit the ground running, like we can keep this pretty short.
00:15:21
Speaker
No big deal. And he was like, no, no, let's just talk. He ended up placing me on the network security team and i was described to the team as, as a project.
00:15:32
Speaker
So, and I was fine with that. like, yes, thank you. Yeah. Set, set the bar low. Only way to go is up now. Yeah. um So that's kind of how I got through. um i was Before that prospect came up, I'm talking a matter of a day or two, i was fixing to sign a contract with a poultry production facility that sold eggs, sold fertilized eggs to laying houses, and they were all contracted by Tyson.
00:16:06
Speaker
because Tyson has a big presence down here in the Ozarks. And, uh, they needed someone to be a manager over their, artificial insemination operation. So they milk the toms to artificially inseminate the hens.
00:16:24
Speaker
They get higher viability that way. More eggs are actually fertilized when they lay them. So that's what I was going to do, man. Like, and And then it worked out with Jack with ah jack Henry down here.
00:16:37
Speaker
What do you think when the guy hired you and he said, you know, Casey, welcome, Casey, this is our project. There had to be, I know that on the surface that may seem like, oh, great, you know, I'm a project. But on the other hand, they saw something in you that they couldn't teach.
00:16:56
Speaker
And i think you can look at that as a compliment if somebody ever finds himself in that situation. You've got the stuff we can't teach. We can teach you how to do the job. That's the easy part.
00:17:07
Speaker
Would you agree with that? Yeah, actually. And there's there's a lot of science behind that. Matter of fact, that's the way, you know, um higher level operators in the military work. And it's probably the same a lot in firehouses and law enforcement. It's like, sure, you might not know everything now, but if you're trainable, we can work with trainable.
00:17:29
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. So you might not have all the best scores or the best resume, but um we can teach you. And so I definitely took it as a compliment that I was a project.
00:17:42
Speaker
The team got a chuckle out of it. i was like, yeah. that's what I'm here for. give you something to work on. So, um, it was good. Right on.
00:17:53
Speaker
So what did you do in that job? Were you doing the same essential thing that you were doing in the military or was it, um, I mean, was it a more advanced version of what you're doing the military or was it something completely different, but in the same way? It completely different.
00:18:09
Speaker
It was completely different. So, I had gained an understanding of TCP IP and, you know, application protocols, digital network things that make computers talk to each other and to the internet that I'm generalizing heavily there. But sure.
00:18:30
Speaker
So I had a good understanding of the technology and how it all works, but I had never been responsible for configuring firewalls to make them route and permit and deny traffic according to what the business needs.
00:18:47
Speaker
So that was all new to me. They they sent me to training, um, a course based on the technology that we use to kind of get up to speed. And then, um, over a few years, you know, projects got, uh, I had, I had less supervision over the things I was working on. Right. So kind of crawl, crawl, walk, run.
00:19:10
Speaker
is the opportunity they gave me. It also helped at the time the state, Missouri, was offering a program through some state veteran agency that the company hiring you, if they said um your OJT period on the job training is one year, the state will reimburse you six months of that salary.
00:19:36
Speaker
So they basically got me for the first year at half price. Nice. yeah And I went and sniffed that out. I found that myself and I took it with me to the interview and I was like, Hey, this is what the state's doing.
00:19:47
Speaker
You can say nice save me some money when you hire me. Man, that's a ninja move right there. Very nice. but But that's what I'm talking about. It takes work. You found an in and that's brilliant. I absolutely commend you. You're a hundred percent correct. You have to find ways to separate yourself, make yourself look attractive to your potential employer.
00:20:09
Speaker
So you've been working for them for a while. um What was next after that? Or how did you progress forward? Southwest Missouri, you, you've heard numerous times in your life. Oh, small world.
00:20:21
Speaker
Well, True, but when you live in a rural area with one big city, it gets pretty small pretty fast. So I had friends that worked at a local trucking company.
00:20:33
Speaker
ah buddy mine was like, hey, you do computer stuff. We're trying to hire somebody. won don't you take a look at this? And so I looked at it, and it was basically what I was doing, but all different technology.
00:20:45
Speaker
And so after a few rounds of conversations, I moved over there um because I kind of wanted to learn some new stuff. And i was with them for a couple of years. I helped them achieve big moves in getting their technology.
00:21:01
Speaker
It's very common when you have technology in your environment. When software revisions come out and you need to update and upgrade your your devices, lot of times that just doesn't happen.
00:21:14
Speaker
And that was that was the where they were with with their firewall system. and It was way behind on code updates. And so it's not it's not as easy as just going in and clicking a button to update. you know, when you got a fleet of firewalls um that that you configure through a management console and, um you know, these are business critical systems. So you have to hit change windows when they're least impactful to the business.
00:21:40
Speaker
um So I just kind of ah took took that under my wing and and did that whole thing. It took me um ah around a year to get all that done because you you know it if the current version is 9.6 and and you're on 6.1 you can't just make the jump all the way you have to read release notes and know like what versions do I have to hit along the way before I can get all the way so it it was a deal i didn't know that
00:22:15
Speaker
Yeah. I thought you could just jump to the newest one and it would cover all your bases. But yeah, if you've got to go through and pick and choose to make it, I can see that being a big undertaking. Yeah. So in my example of like six, one to nine, six, which is totally made up, um you might have to hit like six, five, seven dot O seven dot one, seven dot seven, eight dot O, you know, so on and so forth. And you gotta, you gotta figure all that out, map it out, make a plan.
00:22:44
Speaker
make sure everything's copacetic with everything else in the business, plan the upgrades. So it takes a lot of work.
Entering the Cybersecurity Field
00:22:51
Speaker
um So by time I left, um that was that was fully taken care of. And I had had my hands involved in several other projects along the way.
00:23:00
Speaker
that That team at that trucking company was um very lean, but everybody is super sharp. So that made it a lot easier. What...
00:23:12
Speaker
To go down a bit of a rabbit hole, what types of training or certifications does someone need in order to even get their foot in the door in this line of work? is there ah Is there an industry standard as far as, well, you need this kind of certificate or this degree, either associates or whatever?
00:23:33
Speaker
How does someone even start if they're wanting to follow in your footsteps career-wise aside from going through the military? That is such a good question. um I like that question because i I think there's a bit of a misnomer about the barrier of entry to get into cybersecurity.
00:23:52
Speaker
Nine ways to skin that cat, brother. Like if you if you know you're interested in a certain aspect of cybersecurity that involves a particular brand or type of equipment, I'll just use an example, Palo Alto Firewalls.
00:24:08
Speaker
okay um They offer their own certifications. You can get certified for that platform and that platform is in use everywhere.
00:24:19
Speaker
ah ah Most reputable, notable organizations leverage Palo Alto Networks, either Palo or Cisco, maybe Fortinet or Checkpoint. Between those four next-gen firewall systems, if you've got a cert on one of those platforms, you can get hired and work on be a firewall guy.
00:24:37
Speaker
And they're not just a firewall, but that's kind of how they're still referred to. um If you're looking more for like to get into some leadership roles, you you would want to look less specific to certain types of technology and more at like um principles and procedures.
00:24:56
Speaker
ah There's a certification called CISSP that is um highly regarded. CISSP actually means something because their attrition rate um is still fairly decent.
00:25:10
Speaker
for being ah an industry recognized certification. You can't just go take the test and pass it. You actually got to do some work. Another one is like CISM, Certified Information Security Manager.
00:25:23
Speaker
um So, and none of that actually relates to um a degree being an advantage.
00:25:34
Speaker
You can definitely go to college and study these things. ah But my observation has been over the last eight to 10 years that lot of times having a degree really doesn't matter.
00:25:47
Speaker
And to that end, like I got my degree before I got out of the service, finished it. I got out, had zero certifications. And then I started learning about like, okay, I'm going to be working on Cisco ASAs. It's a firewall.
00:26:02
Speaker
I don't know jack about that. I went to college, finished my degree. i don't know anything about these firewalls. So all that to say, whatever specific interest peaks your mind, whether it's firewalls, DDoS mitigation, um identity and access management, data security, um application security, all of these options, you know, maybe you're into pen testing, penetration testing, where you're trying to hack an organization. Like a lot of people do that as they're, they're just a 1099 contractor for hire.
00:26:38
Speaker
When an organization needs a penetration test. So, and there's plenty of training about that. I, it feels like I'm probably saying a lot and making it sound more complicated. The point I'm trying to make is there's a hundred ways in and you kind of just need to figure out where your interests lie.
00:26:58
Speaker
These different certifications that you mentioned, the Palo Alto and the Cisco and whatnot, you you're If I'm understanding you right, you can go direct to the company and get instruction on how to utilize their product right from the person who makes it.
00:27:14
Speaker
And how long does something like that typically, is there ah like six months, eight months to get the certification or to become familiar enough with it to where you then go could go and make money with that knowledge? Yeah.
00:27:28
Speaker
ah That's another really great question. So yes, you can just access that material. Okay. You, you know, somebody might have a book out there that you want to buy or something. Maybe Paolo sells their own books.
00:27:40
Speaker
um When I got hired at that organization, they already had an account with Paolo because they had their gear. So I, I could access the training online for free and It comes with a caveat that says like, don't attempt this certification unless you've been using the platform for like two years and you've been in security for four years.
00:28:00
Speaker
Well, I was brand new to the platform. Yeah. I took the training and passed the test all in like three, four weeks. Wow. um So kind of, yeah, it sounds cool. But what I'm saying is like, if you, if you understand IP networks and applications,
00:28:19
Speaker
and then you go study a particular technology to see what its buttons and switches do, you can probably pass the test pretty easy. um Not that those Palo certs are a walk in the park.
00:28:32
Speaker
You got to read and study some stuff, but um it shouldn't be seen as a significant barrier of entry. Okay. I do think talked about like the vendor side. What if you want to go work for Palo? What if you want to work in a sales organization that sells Palo equipment?
00:28:49
Speaker
right like Those are two totally separate avenues of getting into cyber. youre You're right in that there is this, I have the impression, and I'm not a very tech savvy guy like you are, but but I look at this stuff and I think, man, you have to do that for years and years in order to know ah how to you know how to how to maneuver all these different avenues. I see IS people at my main line of work. and they'll log in remotely and fix something. And I'm like, good grief. How do you even know how to do that? You know?
00:29:23
Speaker
And then it just, it blows my mind. Like my printer's not working and they'll go, well, okay. And then they log in and in three minutes they've got it checked and it's printing and I'm off to the races. So, you know, there is a mystique, like you really got to spend time learning that stuff. And I know you have to do the legwork to get it done, but it's probably not as substantial a time commitment as maybe a lot of folks think it is.
00:29:46
Speaker
I think that last statement is definitely true. It seems like there's a lot of interest out there for people to get into cyber. But at the same time, it's like, I don't know if I can do that. And I'm here to tell you, like, yeah, you can.
00:30:00
Speaker
You can learn whatever you want to learn on YouTube now. You know, the printer thing, you're talking about IT functions, information technology. I still have people ask me things like, well, you work in IT, t right? Can you help me with my laptop? Well, I mean, kind of, but.
00:30:16
Speaker
Yeah. i'm I'm just a laptop user like anybody else. Just because I know cybersecurity stuff doesn't mean I can troubleshoot your laptop. so Right. Well, yeah, that's a whole different ah whole different job under the umbrella of computers.
00:30:29
Speaker
Let's talk about the potential earnings in your line of work.
Cybersecurity Careers and Earnings
00:30:34
Speaker
And I know that sometimes that's a a bit too broad of a question because there's always the context of if you live in California, if you live in New York versus Missouri, your income levels are going to be different, but so is the cost of living.
00:30:49
Speaker
But what types of, is the sky the limit or or where was somebody going to start when they first get into the cybersecurity realm as a job? Man, I love it. I love the question.
00:31:00
Speaker
So if you go to an enterprise organization and you want to be ah technology operator, I'll just use my example, a firewall guy, you want to learn a certain type of equipment and all the functions and features and capabilities that it has.
00:31:20
Speaker
I think to some degree, it does depend on where you live and stuff, but I've seen those salaries climb into the I would be surprised to see any, even, even an entry level below about 70. And I think that's also a message to people today. Like, Hey, if, if you're a Paolo guy and you know Paolo really well, and you're making 65,000 a year, you might start shopping around, man. Like opportunities are out there.
00:31:49
Speaker
um And it really doesn't matter if you work remote or not. And it's not uncommon if you've been in an organization for a few years and, And you've shown your competency on the platform and you're getting more responsibilities and doing more.
00:32:03
Speaker
It's very easy to shoot up over a hundred and in pretty short manner. That's pretty good for learning from these manufacturers and stuff. And the time commitment is there, but it's, it's kind of like real estate. I mean, you can get a real estate license in a couple, three weeks, but then you got to grind it out. You got to learn, but then the sky's the limit. You can make some pretty good money in real estate if you're willing to work.
00:32:26
Speaker
Yeah, I will caveat my comments that I've made. I didn't know all of that when I started. they got They got me cheap because I was desperate to work.
00:32:39
Speaker
And i was probably in you know the cybersecurity industry on the enterprise side for six, seven years before I realized the potentials that were out there.
00:32:53
Speaker
And I'll segue that into... sales. If you work in sales, the potential the potential for earnings are much higher because you're making commission.
00:33:05
Speaker
And sales guys are not expected to be the technical expert. They're expected to be the relationship expert. So if you can carry good relationships with technology decision makers at enterprise organizations and understand technology enough to help them navigate, okay, well,
00:33:25
Speaker
If this is the problem you're facing and the use case you need to solve, these are the solutions we should be looking at. So let's grab this person and this person for that conversation and then you know tee up some demos for you to look at. And next thing you know, you're you're closing a $500,000 deal.
00:33:42
Speaker
I've never been a sales rep, um but you close a $500,000 deal with a 10% commission. That's pretty good. Yeah. And guys do that all the time.
00:33:53
Speaker
Hmm. So... potentials are out there. do you see i haven't even i haven't even realized those potentials myself. um It's taken me crap. I was on the enterprise side for eight years before I moved into sales. And um I've just been, um been in sales three years, through three and a half years now. And I'm i'm still in like learn mode.
00:34:20
Speaker
It still feels like some of the people I work with, i'm like, how are you so good at this? i'm At the same time, I'm not an account executive. I'm not a sales rep. I'm the i'm their technical resource.
00:34:31
Speaker
So i don't I'll never have the earning potential that those guys have. But I like to stay in the technical know of things, um staying abreast of the technology and the options that are out there across the landscape of security solutions.
00:34:46
Speaker
To me, that's kind of fun. Well, what you just mentioned there, staying abreast of the technology, I would assume that your line of work, there's it's just constant advancement and movement and change and development.
00:35:03
Speaker
is it i won't I don't know if it's at a breakneck pace, but it just seems like every couple of months, equipment that you just bought is bordering on obsolete anymore, and we have to make changes and upgrades.
00:35:14
Speaker
Is it hard to keep up? ah Sometimes, yeah. There are definitely... I'll use identity and access management is ah is a discipline in cybersecurity that comes with um all sorts of policy and procedure and types of solutions available.
00:35:33
Speaker
That's not really my forte, but when I have to know things about it, it's I've been doing these things long enough that it's I can go do some reading and research and be able to navigate these conversations with confidence, but still not be you know, the operator of that platform.
00:35:54
Speaker
So I don't really take it as a, it's not intimidating to me that I don't know everything, right? i have no ego about it. It is actually in impossible to always know everything about all, everything that's changing in cybersecurity.
00:36:10
Speaker
It's best effort and situation dictates. Depends on the clients I'm working with and the use cases we're dealing with and the type of technology I got to get up to speed on. so I'm always having to like learn and relearn.
00:36:24
Speaker
Do you think that your what you just mentioned right there, your ego, ah it's not it doesn't take a hit when you don't know the answer. I can see that as being extremely advantageous in any kind of business where the goal is to move forward, not to stroke my ego.
00:36:46
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I'll take that all the way back to when I first interviewed with that guy that gave me the job. And I told him before we even sat down, like, if you need an engineer to hit the ground running, I'm probably not your guy.
00:36:57
Speaker
That's the attitude I've kind of carried with me. I will not hesitate to say, I'm not the expert there. Here's what I know. Here's what I can figure out for you, but I've definitely got to find somebody um that, that will be able to meet that need for you.
00:37:14
Speaker
I don't feel bad about that at all. You know, learned what I can learn. when the situation dictates, there's always somebody I'm working with that knows more than me about something.
00:37:26
Speaker
That's half the battle is knowing who to talk to. Matter of fact, I have even reached out to former colleagues that are just basically savants in a particular type of technology area.
00:37:40
Speaker
And when i when I learned that, I'm like, okay, I don't actually have to really focus on that because I can always call that guy. And he'll know, you know what i mean? And I've, I've changed organizations and then reached back and said, Hey dude, uh, I'm here now and I'm working with this client and i got some questions and you know, you just follow through that way.
00:38:03
Speaker
What would you say is your, your most favorite part or what do you like the most about your job?
Sales Skills and Challenges
00:38:11
Speaker
Oh, the people dude. It's, that's an easy one. Like I talked to so many different people.
00:38:17
Speaker
um whether it's technology partners or other sales organizations we're working with, not to mention our clients. there's There's never ah dull moment in any of those. I get and get to meet and talk to so many people about so many interesting things.
00:38:32
Speaker
That's probably my favorite part.
00:38:35
Speaker
The... The downside to every job is there always is something that you dislike and it could be something as mundane as a ah regular form you have to fill out or a you know a pretty significant part of your job that you grit your teeth and soldier on. But is there an aspect of your job that you wish if I could remove anything from my day-to-day operations, it would be this?
00:38:59
Speaker
So all when I was in enterprise security, any changes that I ever had to make on these network devices, especially in security, had to abide very strict change windows.
00:39:13
Speaker
And those were oftentimes middle of the night. And sometimes they had to be done on site. And so I would have to be at some location um at two o'clock in the morning, ah sitting there ready to like execute the change.
00:39:29
Speaker
and have someone else on standby to help me monitor and make sure it was correct. Those change windows, you know, early on in that part of in that slice of life, so to speak, um I took a lot of pride in, in my ah ability and desire to take that stuff on. i was always like, yeah, I'll do it. I'll do it. I'll do it.
00:39:47
Speaker
um That got old. was like, I don't really want to be, I don't really want to be this 2am guy forever. And that kind of ended up leading in into sales. I think in sales, every situation is so dynamic that it's really hard to put my finger on any one thing. But I'll tell you this, in my old age, I just turned 40.
00:40:12
Speaker
i'm I'm getting to be a homebody, man. i didn Sometimes I don't want to travel, but it just is required. Like sometimes you just have to. And i'm I'm figuring out now, like,
00:40:25
Speaker
That's not my preference, but I'll do it ah and I'll be happy to do it and I'll make the best of it. But if I can avoid it, I try to. Yeah, i can I can appreciate that. is your Is your line of work, I mean, can you put a percentage on how much you would have to travel in general?
00:40:42
Speaker
If you are in sales, um there is an expectation to travel some. Now, it all depends on a person's position in life. I know guys that travel 300 the year.
00:40:56
Speaker
um go into events, meeting with clients, um all kinds of things for their job because they can right now. And I've been up front with that with with my last couple of moves, like, hey, I'm not strictly opposed to travel, but I can't be a road warrior.
00:41:11
Speaker
right um and So I've been afforded the ability to, you know, if a bot if my boss come to me and said, I really need you on this one. Cool, man, I'll make it work.
00:41:22
Speaker
Or if it's like, Do you think you can make it to this? I'll look at it. And if I want to, i' I'll try to make it work. But if it's like, man, there's just too much going on at home. I'm very fortunate to be able to work remote from home most of the time.
00:41:36
Speaker
um And having the ability to deny travel when I need to is is really nice. But for instance, month of April, next month, I'm basically traveling 50%. That's not normal for me.
00:41:53
Speaker
It's usually about 20, maybe less is normal around 20% travel would be normal. And for me, i try to keep it as regional as possible, but, um, that's not always possible, right? Like we have, I work with sales reps in Dallas, Kansas city, Arkansas, uh,
00:42:16
Speaker
We, we have a guy in Florida now. So all that's on the table when the situation dictates, but, there's i I don't live under an expectation of being a road warrior, but if you want to, you certainly can.
00:42:30
Speaker
Do you find that most of the the folks that are successful in the sales role started on the tech side, or do you have those unicorns that are just selling machines and it's in their blood and they can read a couple of brochures and then just rock and roll? Or how does that typically progress?
00:42:51
Speaker
Both and either or. like I do know a couple of guys that they they know enough about technology now to be dangerous in conversations just because they've been around it enough, but they've never been you know an IT guy or a security guy. They've been in sales their whole career.
00:43:07
Speaker
um Some guys, I think I'm probably in this category where I spent some time on the enterprise side and figured out I want to try something else. um And that comes with value too, because with our clients, I can say, Hey, I've been in those trenches.
00:43:22
Speaker
I know what it's like to navigate those change windows. And you just need those changes to work the first time you make it right. Like, so that adds credibility, but it's not required. Okay.
00:43:38
Speaker
What types of, now the company that you're with now, you don't just do cybersecurity. You do the physical stuff as well.
Advancements in Security Technology
00:43:45
Speaker
Correct? Correct. Yeah, that's that's been a whole new learning adventure for me. So we we really, company, Secure Passage, we don't do cybersecurity like I have ever.
00:44:00
Speaker
We focus on on physical security systems. So you're tempting me to nerd out a little bit because I've learned so much. i lean Lean into it. Simple things like, you know, a smoke detector isn't just a smoke detector anymore.
00:44:15
Speaker
They have these sensors, most often called an an environmental sensor. It looks like a smoke detector, but it can do dozens of different types of detections, ah like monitor noise levels and can tell if, hey, there's el elevated noise in this area.
00:44:35
Speaker
Sounds like people. yelling. Well, you know, if that's in a school, it could just be an excited classroom. Yeah. um If it's in a municipality building, it could be a disturbance.
00:44:46
Speaker
Sure. And these sensors can tell if someone yells help, help, you know, if they scream help, they can pick up gunshots because that, that makes a certain decibel signature. Like they can detect smoke. They can tell if it's vape smoke, they can tell if it's THC, all kinds of stuff.
00:45:04
Speaker
and And the same applies to surveillance systems like ah a security camera isn't just a camera anymore. They do dozens of different types of detections because of edge computing technology and AI.
00:45:18
Speaker
So cameras now they can, they can see, you know, is there ah a group of people assembling? Did that person that just walked by, were they, were they carrying something? Did it look like a gun?
00:45:30
Speaker
license plate readers, face recognition, face recognition. You see the point, like not this technology that's been in place for decades has completely changed.
00:45:41
Speaker
we're What we're able to do is take all these logs, use them to create advanced indications of warnings, indications and warnings of physical security issues.
00:45:53
Speaker
It's actually fascinating. So don't know I answered your question or if I completely rabbit trailed on you. No, no, that's totally, I love rabbit holes, man. It's it's interesting. And I don't know what I don't know.
00:46:04
Speaker
um The AI just is changing everything when it comes to anything digital. AI is going to have an impact on it in some form or another. And I can see security. The camera just is not showing you what's going on. It's analyzing what's going on.
00:46:23
Speaker
Yes, 100%. And all of that exists in data form, and we can extract that data and use it in AI models to create alerting and detections that otherwise was never achievable before.
00:46:39
Speaker
What types of um institutions, and I don't know if you're, you know I don't want to have you out any customers or anything like that, but what types of industry is utilizing this stuff? Is it government facilities, I would assume?
00:46:54
Speaker
Yeah, ah we so we have two different in-house solutions. One of them is kind of a legacy solution that was born in the late 90s, got super popular in three-letter agencies right after 9-11.
00:47:07
Speaker
And that solution, we have state agency clients on that. And that's for like critical infrastructure and a lot of school systems. Actually, we have an entire state that said, hey, we're using this platform for our entire public school system in the whole state.
00:47:24
Speaker
um We have another state that said, hey, we're using this for all of our law enforcement agencies in the entire state. um So some of that exists. Now, the the examples I gave you a minute ago is ah is a newer solution. It was just born last year.
00:47:39
Speaker
um We have, you know, when you're in sales, you got to do some work like what is our ideal client demographic? What are, who are the buyers in this space? Like, who do we talk to?
00:47:53
Speaker
What type of companies are we looking for? um we really feel like, you know, we're the tagline we're using is physical detection and response.
00:48:04
Speaker
PDR. We kind of just coined it. Um, there's, there's an argument to be made that anybody that has security cameras and environmental sensors would, would strongly benefit from our solution. But right now we're, you know, we're looking at financial institutions.
00:48:25
Speaker
um Believe it or not, the cannabis industry is very interested in our stuff right now. hey um Gosh, I've.
00:48:37
Speaker
There's a lot of money in the candas cannabis industry for sure. Yeah. Yeah. um Another one is um retirement communities, like 55 plus communities. So,
00:48:48
Speaker
The applications are so vast. um i We haven't made a strong play for schools yet because we have a different solution for that. um But I could, you know, schools have environmental sensors.
00:49:01
Speaker
Bathrooms in schools have vape detectors. Yeah. So at any rate, long way of answering your question. There's a lot of industries that, that,
00:49:15
Speaker
can slash should be interested in in what's going on in the physical security space. We are among the first movers in this type of technology. It's fairly new to the space. Nobody's doing with physical security data what we're doing.
00:49:30
Speaker
So my role right now at the company is a lot of evangelism, really just talking to people about what's going on with technology and what we're doing to help. So what type of person. And you've mentioned a couple of things in our, in our conversation so far about having that teachable, uh, personality being no ego when you walk in the door kind of a thing, but are there certain soft skills that you see the successful people in your industry, um, possessing that you would say, if you have these, you might want to consider this line of work because that's really going to lean into your strengths.
Approach to Sales and Mistakes
00:50:10
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. Um, a A big one for me, and this applies in a lot of things, is is just critical thinking. So don't try to just check a box by what you have to say or a question you're trying to answer. Think critically about being insightful in the questions you ask and responding to the questions that have been asked of you.
00:50:33
Speaker
In sales, it makes a big difference if if you're talking to a trucking company, do some research about trucking. you know, like figure out the some of the terminology they use.
00:50:47
Speaker
Look into the business. Do they do mostly refrigerated trucking? Do they do mostly flatbed? Do they do intermodal over rail? um These are, and you can do that to any industry. So somebody that's going to do some homework and have some critical thinking ability.
00:51:00
Speaker
And next to that, just being a normal person, like just being able to have conversation. And matter of fact, I've told my kids this for years. They're this generation coming up into the workforce.
00:51:13
Speaker
They'll be golden if they can just have genuine conversations. You know, what is the phrase? like Something of the oyster or whatever. The world is your oyster. i don't know. Yeah, the world is your oyster. Yeah. I'm pulling a George Bush here. I'm going butcher a colloquial. but Right.
00:51:33
Speaker
If a person can just be able to be genuine and have good conversation, you'll do well in sales. the The sales, sometimes when people hear I'm in sales, they just immediately, what comes to mind is the sleazy used car salesman, slick and kind of gross. And i got I guess I have to deal with you. So this is sit down and would you like a water? you know and it's a chore.
00:52:00
Speaker
But I think you're onto something there where if someone can just come in and and empathize with the situation that their customer is in and just treat them like a normal human being and turn off the, I'm at 120% sales right now.
00:52:17
Speaker
Find out what your customer wants. Find out what your customer needs as opposed to just blasting them with verbiage and lingo and yeah flashy metaphors. Yeah.
00:52:29
Speaker
Yeah, following a script is like the last thing you want to do yeah right in sales. And you're right. It does come with that sleazy kind of connotation. And a matter of fact, that's kind of why I stayed away from sales as long as I did, because I never thought I cared about it or that I wanted to be known as that in in that type of role. But after you know dipping my toes in and getting getting into some pre-sales work with when I got away from the enterprise side, I realized I like it.
00:52:59
Speaker
And, ah you know, when I come to the table with clients or prospects, it's like, yes, I have every confidence that software can help you.
00:53:12
Speaker
But if the timing and budget isn't right right now, cool. No sweat off my back. I at least want you to know what's going on in the technology space and how are these things advancing?
00:53:23
Speaker
Because you you don't want to get left behind. If we can't make a move right now, cool um But let's not lose touch. Let's figure out, you know, what are the best, what are the steps to help you stay abreast of these changes and make your technology stack as useful as it can be to your security teams.
00:53:42
Speaker
So it makes you seem reasonable when you approach it with, I don't have to have a sale right now. I want to do what's right for you when it's right for you. Yeah, that's, that's it, man. Like, but here's the thing.
00:53:56
Speaker
ah I have a family. I have bills. I work you know for a professional organization, aspiring to start my own business.
00:54:07
Speaker
I go through life just like anybody else does. So the last thing I want is somebody showing up and being like, you got to buy this. yeah i don't want to talk i don't want to talk to that person. I want to talk to somebody that's going to be like, hey, we have this thing. It could probably really help.
00:54:22
Speaker
Let's figure out where you are and how how to you know build a roadmap to get you up to speed. Yeah. I'll have that conversation. Sure. Well, that seems like a normal person conversation that you don't need to take a shower afterwards.
00:54:37
Speaker
Yeah. what's the ah What's your best advice for someone in your line of work when they make a mistake? And I know that when you're talking about cyber and physical security, a so ah mistake can be a simple one or it can be a rather large one.
00:54:54
Speaker
And I'm thinking specifically about a data breach or something along those lines. How do you advise someone to respond when they make a mistake? You know, going to answer your question, but and real short story.
00:55:11
Speaker
When I was in seventh grade, I was working for my uncle. He was a roofing contractor. Uh, and we always got the OSHA speech. Hey, if somebody shows up asking questions, go hide, you know, uh, seventh, eighth grade summers, I i was roofing with him. And,
00:55:28
Speaker
I messed something up one day. I used the wrong screws on these big sheets of insulation on a flat roof. And he said, who put them screws in there? I said, I did. And he said, those are the wrong ones. You got to pull them all out and put those other ones in there. And I said, okay.
00:55:42
Speaker
And he said, hey, don't worry about it. At least I know you're working. So there's there's the encouragement. It's like, hey, if you're messing something up, at least everybody knows you're working. yeah And I have messed things up as an operator. I've taken down services, dropped entire locations from the network before, like I've done it, I've messed it up.
00:56:03
Speaker
Sometimes you can do everything right and it still doesn't go right because of something else you didn't know about. So i don't take those mistakes as, as a real detriment.
00:56:15
Speaker
If you're learning from it, if you're making the same mistake multiple times, there's a problem. yeah But in sales, it's like, what did I do one time? i i I called somebody out in an email for something, not in a, not in an abrasive way, but it was like, it was more of like a, well, so-and-so said this. So I was just waiting on that.
00:56:36
Speaker
Well, turned out um I was in the wrong. And so what do I do? I just own it in the thread that everybody else was on. And I said, Hey, that's on me. ah That was actually my fault.
00:56:47
Speaker
So sorry to you. Person did not intend to do that. And you just move forward. Like, I may not be the best person to ask about mistakes because I don't dwell on that.
00:57:00
Speaker
Well, no, what you just said right there to sum up, I asked this question every single time. And I think sometimes folks that are listening may think I'm trying to give them advice on how to avoid to make a mistake or how to avoid making a mistake.
00:57:16
Speaker
That's not possible. You're always at some point going to make a mistake where human beings were flawed by nature And that is what's going to happen. What separates the wheat from the chaff, so to speak, is how you respond to that mistake.
00:57:33
Speaker
And i I'm seeing a trend with every interview that I do is the successful folks will say, you have to own that mistake. Don't sugarcoat it. Don't dance around it. Don't halfway own it.
00:57:44
Speaker
Step out there in front of everybody, acknowledge your mistake, and then do your best to learn from it and move on. You can't dwell in it, but you can't get past it until you own it.
00:57:57
Speaker
A hundred percent. Totally agree with that. Jocko actually has a really good conversation. I think he actually has a TED talk about that. don't know if you listen to Jocko. No, no. I've listened to him a couple of times, but I didn't know he did a TED talk. I'm probably going to look that one up.
00:58:10
Speaker
Yeah, it's really good. There was a ah blue on blue incident. Fratricide is the term for that. And he he ultimately took responsibility for it. And it's a really good story about just owning it.
00:58:25
Speaker
I've got to ah coworker that anytime something bad goes happens, he'll just look at me and go, good. and That's a Jocko thing, man. I know. He's a big Jocko fan. And and ah I didn't know what he was doing at first. I'm like, what is wrong with you? This isn't good at all. And then he explained to me what it was. And I realized, so now I kind of chuckle whenever that happens. but ah I got a buddy I do that with too.
00:58:47
Speaker
Yeah. that I mean, that is a ah pretty good way to embrace. you know I heard one of my guys I interviewed a while back, he said, just hug the cactus, man. Just get it over with. and so Yeah. In the Marines, it was ah embrace the suck.
00:59:00
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, definitely. So if you could go back and you know start over, so to speak, even though we don't like to live in the past, was there another career that you
Alternative Interests and Conclusion
00:59:13
Speaker
thought I might want to do when you were younger? Or- Did you always kind of think this was where you were going to be or what, what do you, what do you think?
00:59:23
Speaker
Dude, this was definitely nowhere near where I thought I would be. Uh, man, I, I grew up in the country working on farms and construction, right? I, when I joined the military, I got into all this technical stuff.
00:59:37
Speaker
Um, I always thought I would do something in conservation. Uh, I love, I love to be outside. That's all I really care about. If it's in the woods or out in the fields, hunting, fishing, Um, you know, I can walk around here in the Ozarks and name just about everything that grows out of the ground and certain properties about it still to this day.
00:59:54
Speaker
Um, and those are the things I really love. That's kind of where my heart of hearts lives and is in, uh, you know, essentially ecology and, um, land management.
01:00:08
Speaker
If, if I get to a place where I can, you know, to use air quotes here that you can't see. retire from the technology side of things, that's what I'll do. You know, I'll just buy me a tractor with some implements and and do some b land work, you know, helping people with their forests and fields and food plots or whatever, you know, gardens. I like planting gardens. I'll do that.
01:00:30
Speaker
yeah I just want to be outside really. You know, i'm going to go down a rabbit hole. It's totally unrelated, but one thing that I would love to have, and I have absolutely no reason for it other than I want it are we so I saw some utility workers clearing some power lines and they had one of those big drums on the front of a skid steer that will just carve through trees and things and mulch up the ground have you seen those yeah I actually have I just recently priced renting one
01:01:02
Speaker
Yeah, because i could not afford to buy one. I can tell you that much. But they're pretty impressive. And I would love to make some trails on some property and just really, and then plant some stuff that you want along the sides and really make it a park-like ah yeah vibe. but Yeah, that that that implement you're talking about, it's crazy awesome because you can chew through an area and the path that it leaves is basically mulch.
01:01:29
Speaker
Yeah, it's perfect. It's the coolest thing ever. Yeah. Yeah, I think if I could go back, even though I really like being in the fire service and doing podcasting, of course, if I could go back, I think I would get myself one of those and and try and make a living in doing that. Because that that would just be a blast every day to just go out in the woods and drive that thing along. It'd be so cool.
01:01:50
Speaker
Man stuff. I know. Yeah. I'll start a separate podcast about man stuff like that. That'd be cool. Yeah. Hey, Casey, do yeah the, the, uh, nine 11 Memorial stair climb.
01:02:03
Speaker
No, I haven't. No, I haven't. I've done that several times. Have you? Uh, highly recommend. Right on. I'm not a fireman, but I, I have a heart for service communities and a buddy of mine was like, Hey man, you, you need to come with me and do this. And so I did.
01:02:20
Speaker
And for about three years running, um, after that, my, I took my whole family and we all did it. nice we We didn't get to this last year, but it's a really cool local event.
01:02:32
Speaker
I know I will never forget where I was on 9-11, not to end the podcast on a depressing note, but I was in the firehouse at Copper Mountain, Colorado ah Ski Resort. That's where I got my foot in the door in the fire service.
01:02:47
Speaker
And somebody woke me up and said there was something going on. And I was about to get on a plane later that morning in Denver to fly out ah to California for a training class.
01:02:59
Speaker
And so then I had to go and scramble to get a rental car because you know all the flights were canceled. And then I drove all the way out to California for that class. And I listened to all the news coverage for I don't know, 24 hours or whatever the time frame was. I drove straight through, but yeah, I'll never forget where I was on that one.
01:03:18
Speaker
It was a rather unique to have my first year in the fire service be when nine 11 happened. No kidding. That's wild. Yeah. Well, Hey man, this was a really interesting interview and I'm glad we talked because the cybersecurity stuff, it did have a bit of a mystique and I, you, you commented on it when we talked beforehand, as well as in the interview.
01:03:39
Speaker
that there's this myth out there that you have to have a master's degree and all this other stuff to get into it. And so anybody listening, take some of the notes about what Casey said in here and dig into it because you could find yourself in a rewarding career and, and not have to sell your soul to get it. So totally agree.
01:04:00
Speaker
Thanks, man. I appreciate the time. I know you're busy, so I'll let you get back to work. Well, thanks, man. I appreciate the time. This was fun. Hopefully, you know, provide some value to your listeners.
01:04:12
Speaker
Oh, yeah, absolutely. Thanks, buddy. Take care.
01:04:17
Speaker
And that wraps up another episode of the Jobs Podcast. Thank you so much for joining me today. Hopefully you found that interesting. As always, I wait until the end of an interview to ask you to like, subscribe and share.
01:04:28
Speaker
I feel it's important that I earn that support from you. Thanks again, and we will see you on the next one.